TranscriptBudget Committee Meeting ~ February 7, 2023

we are the town budget committee meeting for our third and probably final meeting in review of the 2023 budget year um following our last meeting last Thursday I heard from several budget committee members requesting this meeting for additional discussion on uh the following items um a further review of certain salary lines in the administration budget a better understanding behind the 23.61 percent requested increase and this year's Administration budget to include a comparison of the inherited payroll versus that proposed in the 2023 Administration budget uh third point was the current state of affairs regarding the town's undesignated funds and it was also a question raise regarding uh if the town had an emergency fund and if so what it's into relation with the town's undesignated fund might be and then a final question was raised where is the sixty thousand dollars that was moved from the municipal

Capital fund so with that um why don't we start with the administration budget and um I've provided representation from the select board tonight I wanted to be sure that any decisions that might be made tonight's meeting will certainly weren't based on unknown or um wrong information and uh we can't get better information than we can from our select board so uh thank you to Kevin Joe and Josh Josh sorry

I meant the block there so then I'll open it up why don't we focus on the administration budget uh there's a chance for you to ask your questions the purpose of doing that we voted on it twice so we're going to vote again if there's a motion we have a form so if somebody wants to revisit the vote we can okay but some people like I say had questions and um since we had this meeting scheduled anyways uh as is reserved date I figured

I'd it would make sense to make sure everyone felt good about um what we discussed previously and what are those were so the reason why I requested um to discuss the administration budget is because when I was trying to summarize notes to pass on to the select board as to why we made our decisions and where we made our decisions I also reviewed the inherited information that we received last Thursday night um because I didn't really have a chance to process it um and there's there's some discrepancies I guess for lack of a better term that I wanted to

um clarify so that I made sure I understood it when people in the town came to me with their questions um one of them is that the town manager said that his um salary currently is 93 000. and it's in his contract to go up to 97 000.

but then in another location five percent Cola race so I'm just curious which it is so the the way the contract means is he was hired in 93 and he has a six-month probationary period and in which is essentially like a week last week is when six months was up um he'll get a review and assuming a satisfactory uh outcome of that then I think he goes I want to say it goes to 95.5 and then

um the 97 is what he had in there for a budget but the 97 is not a contractual amount the way the contract reads is that dot in on annually on his date of anniversary which is July 28th he would get uh three percent raise or whatever

percent was um given to the town as a whole like for a cola increase which this year is five percent he is whichever is greater so if there were no if there were no Cola type increase he would get three percent if if it's higher than three then he gets that amount but he would he'll get that because of this contract on his anniversary date is when that will become effective whereas other tat employees any rays will become effective the start of the first full pay period after the budget is approved to tell me

out of the year for the continuing of this year he'd be at the 95.5 plus the five percent well no if we voted again no no because in July he'll go and so he'll go very soon he'll he'll go to 95.5 correct and then um then he would get five percent I think on top of that in July as the anniversary date right that's what I was saying okay yeah that's not what the budget says the budget says he goes 97 right yeah I think you know I think when he was you know he said when he was putting together the budget um that he may he may have that line a little bit low um but he said you know he'll make it work within the budget basically it probably evens out because when he gets his five percent raise in June he's up to a hundred thousand two hundred and seventy five dollars so it's probably it was probably taking in the consideration of the lower

you said you [Music] okay and then a similar question for the code enforcer because he's at 55 8. yeah he's not under he doesn't have a contract he's you know so I'm not as I can't speak as definitively about that all I know is that you know uh whatever that he was hired at he'll he'll be eligible for the five percent increase just like the other employees so is it typical for people to get cola

raises when they haven't been here a year because there are several positions in this last year around the raised pool and cola and um [Music] my concern with the way that this is presented and that is that it's really embedded and so if we

like last year when we did it for the Rays pool the select board had recommended a number and the budget committee had recommended a number and where I'm having a hard time reconciling this is that um you know almost 32 percent towards

wages and I understand like with the labor market and I get all of that stuff but if out whether or not um we want to approve a three percent or four percent um I I didn't like it last year either I I don't know what the solution to this problem is the budget committee is not asked to offer an opinion on whether it should be three percent no but we're going to arrive at a number and if the number that we want to arrive at is the three percent then what I'm saying is that if it's like a contractual thing that he's gonna get the three percent the number it doing it this way everyone across the board is at a five percent number and so if we're looking at the the people who are employed for less than a year and we feel like they just got this or or people have already gotten a raise this year and so the five percent were not comfortable with arriving at that total number at the bottom it makes it really

difficult to to do that this way and so the way that the budget has gone from where it was and approved in 2022 because they can spend the money however they want to within the article we have now assumed these reoccurring

um fees or you know expenses that really are not what the voters approved and I don't know how to fix that situation I just I'm having a hard time with it because it's such a discrepancy yes so I guess I'll speak personally I granted it's very it is tough to follow the way the format is now and I know that uh Jerry next year is plan um is to you you if he follows through with what he's expressed to me he's going to do he you won't see separate lines for each position you're in with an Administration you're going to see wages and you know some benefits and you'll be able to see on one line the percent increase or whatever of wages for that year so then you can it's clearer to see you know what is the upward or change right maybe more like a real pool at yeah and so the pool the pool idea was that was it makes it very complex to enter in Trio and because you're approving funds in one article then you're trying to

allocate them to several other articles for for paying Cruces um what was the second part here well I think what my issue is is that because there isn't um budgetary constraints among the line right right um how a now reoccurring cost

has been allocated to this budget feels I don't know what the word is that I'm looking for I apologize I'm not being articulate about this we still only have one tool to deal with this as a budget trading I I know I I know what that tool is all right I know our voice is saying yes or no which is why I said no well to give him less money right right that's your life right it's just but but it let's so let's get if we give them less money I'm just saying like we give them less money but then all of these raises still go into effect the way that they are presented to us here now next year when we go into and I get it they're gonna have to reduce other lines and you know that type of thing but it is a now it is a another jump of reoccurring costs to say no to this yeah

the town can make it so confiscatory that they can't do the races they want to do and everything else that's up to the town if the town just want to give people a five cent raise they can say no yeah and make and make that known and if if the if the time manager can figure out a way to give them the five percent raise and still come within the budget then yeah okay even though even though the even though the town manager isn't necessarily Bound by an expression of where a cut

should come from whether that comes from the budget committee or town floor um it's generally wise for them to consider that when they're making them and so I I want to believe in good faith that the reason why we're seeing this you know type of increase and I understand we went you know we hired new people that have you know higher skill sets and I'm I'm not disputed I know the labor market is crazy like I understand um and I want to believe in good faith that this is because we had the town manager we had the interim Town manager they were trying to you know level the playing field but to me looking at this

you know just the change from 2022 to year end at 31 when we're talking about about wages that feels like the opposite of of that I'm not sure I followed what feels the opposite of what like how you're saying it would like behoove the town manager to go along with that right I'm not putting this on him but this happened before he got here right I think I think if the um I think if you're making an Apples to Apples comparison I I would agree with you but I think if you look at um you know what changed from the point in time that the 22 budget was approved to when Jerry walked through the door like so for instance you go if you look at the spreadsheet on the document that I gave you I know it's yeah sorry I printed a little small um the most of the most of the difference happened because of things that happened before Jerry got here and I understand you acknowledge that but it's um and you've already acknowledged that

you know yeah there was Market forces in play and whatever it is kind of like that's the reality of what happened and where we are and so where we are now against where the 22 budget started admittedly that's a that's a big Delta much much higher than normal you know it's definitely consider that in the normal it's it's true every year that your whatever your the wages you pay you're paying a person when you annualize it to the next year is almost always higher than what you started with at the beginning of the previous budget here because things happen on the course of the year but the the number of magnitude of changes this year was very unusual in terms of you know the more the higher rate for a town manager the higher rate for the code enforcement officer and the addition of a part-time uh position that was a zero in the 22 budget um but uh but was brought on uh because there was a need for it this year and so

now that goes from zero in the 22 Baseline to a what now this is the part that the town manager is proposing that's on him to take that from part-time to full-time you know so you're going from zero to a full-time position so for Plus benefits so that's you know that's a big Delta versus ly and that's a big chump of the um you know the 31 or or whatever the number is well technically he's responsible for half of that because you guys created the part-time president or the previous Town managers did the previous the part-time position right and he's choosing he's he's proposing to go from foot that's what I'm saying right but half of it's on him yeah

so Jerry when he first came in said I want to fill the position not the person so the Spiel was that we would give everybody that at least the single coverage correct um of insurance not give it to him but we'd have that in the budget just in case that person left we need a new person we'd bump it up or we'd have it so um then then it got changed to everyone is what their actuals are but the new

um position the opening or the open position is now a family plan so in my I I I'm trying to say this diplomatically um so Jerry is a very smart man I will give him that he knows how to be able to get funds available to him and I can't I can't um you know look down on him for that but to me to put that twenty four thousand dollars in is there a way that we could lower it to the single plan um and have a contingency not in this line but I mean if we didn't have it and they had to come to the select board would it be a special meeting or do we have funds available I just don't want him to get tied up in here unnecessarily so that hey I made it to the bottom line um do you know what I'm saying we still have the same tool I only have one tool Jane don't give it to them no because she's asking I know what she's asking is it does it require a special town meeting to increase the amount or is there a way that we can

find funding like through the emergency fund or so okay so um so the answer so there's several kind of questions embedded in there so if very diplomatically yeah we can't overspend an article well okay we can because we have right so but that's that's where things you know kick in when you have to figure so you you first try to answer your question if you didn't budget for family if somebody came on and required family what would you do what would you do so the first your first option is can I make this work within the total of the article okay and if if the answer to that is no like if the budget is so tight that you literally don't have that right you may not be able to right and you knew you were going to then in order to get more money to spend in that article that would require a special town meeting and the only funding source available would be undesignated because we can't issue uh more than one um

tax assessment in a year we can collect more than once a year like we can split the collection up multiple times which we may see in future years but you can only do a tax assessment once a year so um why can't you use the emergency fund that so the next one would be you could use an emergency fund um and there is an emergency fund I can't remember off the top of my head I want you to say that 16. okay um expending from the emergency fund requires doesn't require a special town meeting but it requires approval by the select board and approval by the budget is that an ordinance or a policy I believe that's an ordinance me on um at that one on when that yeah sorry that that's been in place for a while and I know there was a um a few years back we tried to put a contingency fund article on the

warrant which basically I won't get the wording exactly right but it basically I think it was like ten thousand or fifteen thousand dollars or something that it allowed the selection like if we did get caught short somewhere or if we had something come up like I don't know if you guys are aware but we have pipes burst over at the Eureka Center you know we just found out about today so um that's that's the type of thing that you know um that comes up or or whatever else so um so sorry in the process of researching that contingency Ruth researched the emergency fund and that's where she you know reported out on what the procedure was for using uh the emergency fund so Jane one of my questions was in my little handout that I you guys got was what is the emergency one policy because I was thinking we could use it for things like that right so if we want to reduce it so you should take that off who's the emergency fund a

little bit and you if we can and use it for situations like that you don't want to give it to them this year just you know I kind of would agree with that probably well it just gets it out of that line of being mixed up and still making your bottom budget but there is one more option though okay Jerry's idea of his contingency plot was so he didn't have to come to both committees to get permission to go and put somebody on a family plan versus a single plan and that fifteen thousand dollars that was voted down was for that purpose which is why he was trying to get into a mode where he's the town manager now he's going to make the decisions on all the hiring and and letting go or whatever else that goes on and so it doesn't become a burden that has to come back to a vote there's just some things that shouldn't you know like putting somebody on a family plan shouldn't be something that requires a

town vote quite frankly I want to have some feedback on it it gets through the you know the philosophy of a budget right and what is what is a budget so I mean several of you heard me still use it a budget is not a list of known expenses okay a budget is you need to plan for what you can reasonably expect you might need to pay for and it's not unreasonable to budget for an open position that you don't know who's going to take it that they that you should be ready to and have funds available in that article for a family plan if that person needs it now if they don't the next year you don't you don't budget those funds and the unexpected funds rolls back into undesignation so

gosh I just lost my train of thought um but I believe when we voted that fifteen thousand dollars out the 24 000 was in there is that correct I think that's true so he he had the 24 and an extra 15. yeah because I think he he was the what was going on there is like if you think back to what he originally proposed a budget he had that family on everybody even people that no he had 11. he had a single on everybody

after that he and I had a conversation after that one you know maybe that's a lot of cushion you know so he said maybe we that's so then we landed on let's put everybody in the budget and what they're actually at if it's a known if you have an open position budget it as family so that you can cover that if you need it and then that that 15 is contingency if something else

changes like for instance changes like divorce marriage spouse loses a job you know whatever or it could be used for that the insurance could be anything in the article it might be that um you know Professional Services or whatever I don't know but it's that's why it's called contingency because you don't know but I think I think we're going from having no Town manager to have a town manager that cost us big bucks that did not accomplish half of what Jerry is accomplishing now okay I I will give them that I I'm not um but I mean I felt very bad when he said we don't trust him it's not a matter of trust it's a matter of we're treading in new water here and from what was done in the past it's kind of scary to give someone that leeway to have those funds I understand that you know I guess I would ask that you know considering you know awesome I think he's done such a good job as tough to remember that he's only

been here six months you know and that's honestly you know I think in year one I think we should he's still trying to figure out the best path for everything right he's trying to figure out how to best use you know the employees he has in the office and what roles they play and how can he do that most efficiently and he's you know there's going to be some stumbling and figuring it out and oh that didn't work let's try this so I I guess I would ask to consider maybe giving them a little bit more slack that you might otherwise do once he's been here you know two three four years you know in year one you know I think if he's if he's got resources there that he might need to tap into it would be great for a new town manager to have those resources rather than overly constrain him okay but we still have to face the town's people and that's like a 36 percent increase and I and I get that I get that Jane but I guess I would ask

also ask people to step back and look at the big picture and the budget as a whole we're looking at a budget that it's very likely we are not going to have to raise the bill we're probably we're going to come in a flat bill rate um and or up very very slightly you know depends on how County comes in but if you look at the estimated impact on on the sheet you know we are this is not a big tax increase year there is there is room and to keep taxes about where they are if not absolutely flat and provide him with a little bit of slack there okay so help me to understand though because I'm sorry Joe um because this is the year when does that um senior citizen 65 lock-in next year well this is the year this is the year that locks them in next year is when the freeze starts okay so are we under the assumption that they will be locked in any increase will be divided among us remaining no no okay thank you the

state picks up the tab the state pays the it's it's similar to it's similar to homestead exemption right it's it's weird so they'll have it deducted right on their thing they'll see what they're getting as I don't know what it looks like to be honest with you okay I just want to make sure it doesn't lay on all of that that's right the the the idea of like the homestead exemption it's the state then you can complain to your legislature about just a taxes

board meeting that sarcasm that if we don't get paid by the state then that loss of tax income from the seniors has to come from somewhere in the town yeah because nothing is clear-cut from the state of where it's coming from and things like that quite yet they announced the big announcement that but they haven't because we're over haven't obviously done or at least publicly made clear the background yeah and I think I think a lot of people in hindsight are seeing some flaws in that legislation so I wouldn't be surprised if you see some tweaks to that year okay I said my piece I tried to be diplomatic I think you did great Jake um [Music] someone's asked and again with me trying to take my notes I couldn't remember what the answer was and I do believe unfortunately it was a question to the town manager so I can email him before town meeting if you guys don't know the answer or call the answer

again just looking at things as a position not thinking about the people um I'm kind of curious it seems to me like it would make more sense to have two part-time people as opposed to making a part-time person full-time because then especially if we

end up with one of those full-time equivalents being the contracted out position um because it gives you more benefits of coverage for vacation and sick time along with I mean granted the benefit of not or the pay Savings of not paying benefits might get lost because you're you know the wages that you're having to pay and you now have like two 20-hour people versus one thirty six hour person

um but I don't remember what the answer was why we felt that wouldn't be a benefit to the town um I I don't know I don't recall the answer either okay but I guess I would email them and ask them you know it's it's kind of it's up to the town manager to figure out the the best Staffing model based upon the staff he already has and what what they're able to do and where he has gaps so whether it's two part-timers or a full-timer you know that's really up to him at the end of the day he has to live within whatever budget he has and figure out how to make it work I just know last year it was the argument of we need to have a part-time person because two full-time people in the office doesn't cover vacation in sick times and if we do contract out payroll um it kind of recreates that position and does ask the question of what happens then next year yeah I think um yeah go ahead so I mean you know this is

kind of why I did that Manning plan you know based on what Jerry was thinking with the uh with the folks um that he had on staff and the potential for bringing a full-time person in so you know we went through the list of things that everybody actually does in in which is where I

came up with a number that came up to almost four and a half people to do the work that's both behind the counter including what the it folks do for the town so I left that out last time by mistake but it included the I.T um uh employees as well in the four and

a half in the four and a half so what his I here was is to go into this with three not go for the four four and a half people because I based it on a 40-hour work because I said it came up to like I want to say it was I'm looking for the email here it was around 8 800 hours or a little bit over 80 100 hours of work in a year and a 40 hour work week and it was just figuring a few you know basic weekends and I think I'd do the holidays in there so when you back that down to 36 hours which is I think what what uh what the employees are working maximum and and so you end up with four extra hours that you're not accounting for that's kind of what drove that number up before you know the four and a half there it was obviously from that range so when he when he looked at the Manning his his idea of how to do the Manning pulling the it folks in helping with the behind the counter work as the part-time

people to fill in for those times when vacation came or breaks or whatever because he said what's happening now and and even without comparing it to another town with the number of people they have for the same amount of powder time he said they're at the window the entire time during the time they're sitting in this office on most days there's very little down time so the other stuff like doing elections and and doing the various you know meeting minutes and keeping track of everything else it doesn't get done within the wind within the window a time needed so you know he has to sometimes send people home saying you got to go I can't pay any more overtime it's going to put me over the budget right so he's trying to get to a happy medium now if he outsources the treasurer's position that does help greatly I think that's a really good thing for the town it's going to get all our numbers straightened out whether

that stays out there or not that's something that can be said in a couple years by him or whether he wants to pull that back in when when we when we reconcile the accounts um he may not need as as much he's still even taking that position out and Outsourcing it I just said I was at four and a half people you're still at three and a half people to do the work that's still here so you're you're so he's still doing more with less with three and a half people that he's budgeting for and and I'm thinking it's a pretty good plan I'm not seeing that there's a huge far in the way that a man you don't want to be over man nobody ever wants to be over man because then you have people sitting around you know want less productive so so just the amount of work that's just them rattling off for two hours while I was sitting here and going through the plan it it came up to that a lot I mean you'd be surprised at how

long it takes them to do um absentee voting but absentee voting can take you know huge huge I mean they have to do it by law and it's only one person that really can go do that at this point um so you know that person's then down for the day if you have voting going on they're they're just vacant for those two three weeks that all that stuff is coming in um and same with setting up for a town meeting that's a huge you know that's three weeks of time it might be spread out across days but it's a lot of time when you start adding up how many hours people are really here so there's some big heavy tickers in the spring and then in the fall for the two voting periods without anything else special going on and then you know so what do you do with all the people that are standing at the calendar so I think he's got a pretty good plan I don't I don't I don't I don't think there's a stuck out there

with that you know it was um gregarious I didn't think there was excessive um it looked spot on it was a really good view of the world keeping the employees we had doing that bringing in the one new person to fulfill that spot whether it be part-time or or the full-time game for the treasurer I think I think it's a pretty good outlook on how we move forward but he's not bringing in a new body anyway he might yeah it depends on what

um I mean if he contracts out he's not bringing in a new body his plan is to expand the current that's right that's right people that he has to full time exactly well and and use the um Kimberly and Devin right I didn't realize he was planning on using them for vacation coverage he was going to get them get everybody trained up across the board for all all the positions what like to use a little louder but um but and then that would that would satisfy the need for our coverage the other question that I asked last week so I guess I'm putting this on Josh and Kevin because you know the two new faces um we have arpa covering a big part of our bill this year um I mean without arpa we'd be at the levy limit or pretty darn close to it has any does anyone have the accounting knowledge and ability to know what is

going to happen next year because the one thing I definitely want to make sure we're not doing this year is almost like what we did in the middle of the budget last year is setting ourselves up for a huge increase or a surprisingly large increase next year [Music]

everybody because I asked last week and you two didn't have an answer last week did you think of one since then but would we just not vote in as much I mean the arbor staff bought things that if we don't have the money next year I'm not necessarily going to vote to buy a new plow truck or a new pickup truck we bought things with arpa because we had arpa and I I understand that but I want to make sure we're not setting ourselves up that our operating budget is so large that we can't have CIP so so

CIP committee recommended the ratings of the projects and then of course the selectman turned around and said okay this is Opera this can't be Opera this is Opera so we went down the list in so the schedule of for public works and

the fire department shows a schedule of what equipment's coming up over the next five and ten years somebody I think somebody asked the chief you don't want any more money extra money right I mean he didn't put in uh an offer of any kind for additional equipment because I'm all right for now because he's got enough in reserves he's looking at a plan five and ten years out it's as well you know next year I will ask for some money because Public Works he asked her 100 000 I think we cut it down to 50. but he's got does have trucks coming up so I I look at it is well you can pay me now or pay me later so will there be a big upper next year there could be if there's a truck coming up in the following year so instead of putting a hundred thousand dollars this year and a hundred thousand next you might be putting 150 next year okay I don't think I understand that's my base question so can I take a stab at it sure so I

think you know so I think if I'm hearing you correctly you know like if we had the same amount of capital expenditures next year without the arpa funds to cover them are we setting ourselves up for a big tax abuse and I guess I would leverage what John said well if all things were equal and we spent the same amount of money without arpa then yeah that would be tax increase but there are some things working in our favor there one we do we do have to to John's point we we review it every year we see okay how far down the list from the CIP committee you know can we go and you prioritize just like we always is awesome starting next year as you know we have several bonds with roads and Public Works starting next year they'll start coming off the schedule so I think next year it's I'm 1900 something thousand dollars yeah

um so that's money that is currently being raised you know that does not have to go to a bond payment next year that could be applied to one of those Capital expenses with no tax impact to the town so let me reword it a little differently then um it's been spoken by the public um some sarcastically some pleading um some just frankly stating it that they really hope that when the bonds payments start falling off we just don't see that as an opportunity to spend that money someplace else well I think the board will have to look at you know what is the because you know I think people people like to say like the board spends money the board spends money the board does not spend a dime the all the money the only money that gets spent is what's approved by voters so if voters approve a certain budget and a certain amount of capital expenditures then we have to raise the funds to pay for that otherwise they shouldn't vote for

it but there are certain things the town needs to operate you don't take care of the roads eventually you're going to need to spend more to fix them I understand all of that I understand all of that what I'm asking what I'm trying to ask is

our operating budget grown so much in the past two years that what we have come to traditionally spend on Capital reserves and Capital Improvements is either going to have to be fractionalized or the town people is going to see you know a big tax increase and I don't want to say nickel and dime but let's face it right we're all kind of used to in this town about a three to five percent increase in our taxes annually for the past few years we have not had an increase in three years excuse me my bill went up my bill went up you're building up it was because of an assessment change the mill rate has been at 20. if it stays flat again we haven't had any marketing assessment no but it could be an individual an individual's assessment can change the uh because it doesn't happen well if you do an addition or if you do I haven't done it at least I'm telling you the mill rate is has been 2070 for the past uh two years and is

likely to stay that or very close to it again but the total evaluation of the time has gone up so taxes have been raised in total tax revenue yes but uh because of the valuation increasing is more property in town but the mill rate has not changed raise your hand if your taxes have gone up it was amazing go look at your tax bill the mill rate 2070. mine was mine went down last year because I know because of the mortgage lucky you see what happens when you get on the select board your taxes go down I'm just joking people it's a joke

somebody's taxes change valuation is the other half you know so the mill rate has been constant and the mill rate is what the town uses to assess taxes if something happened you know that for some reason changed your assessment in the tax books then then yeah your tax bill would have gone up but the rate you actually you know actually you know I guess I think I can explain this part of what's going on is that because our evaluations are are out of sync that we're not getting the full homestead exemption that we used to get so our host at exemption has been going down the last couple of years but so so that could result in a that's another way it should result in a should be a fairly minor increase but the mill rate itself what the town uses to assess um has not gone on if the way I understood your question when you were asking if um the purchases we made using our profines were going to result

in increase okay so I'm gonna send this to your question yeah I I think I think this is why I'm not a public speaker because what's up here can't come out here we operational side so much that there's not going to be enough left to invest in capital stuff I think right without having a big tax impact I think the answer to that is no you know it's it's not like we've been living off arpa funds for you know multiple years but I think as bonds start to drop off we also have a much you know a lot of you know uh constraint by the budget committee and the select board over the past several years to um not overuse undesignated funds but now that is in a very healthy position so we'll be able to use a bigger chunk of that on an annual basis going you know going forward you know so those things alone will help you know offset um you know the ARP of the Harper that we don't have next year right although with

the undesignated fund we got to figure out half a million dollars to see just how healthy it really is so can I just chime in on just articulate this a little bit more I think like where what she's trying to ask if we're looking at the administration budget last year versus this year we're around a hundred thousand dollar difference um you you know you add all of those things uh the difference between last year and this year is 250 000. and around that number is what we're proposing to spend through Opera funds around that number is typically what we spend um towards capital reserve either requests or funding accounts and so if these proposed 243

thousand dollars over last year's budget is now reoccurring like the salary situation that I was talking about now we're in a situation where our Opera funds are gone we have this increase in this operating budget that's around that same amount and we still have to be Capital improving and funding those account balances is that what you're trying to say yeah because we're getting I don't see the cola going down and me personally like I stated the other day I don't understand you know if Mark makes a hundred thousand and I make twenty thousand why he gets more money to buy eggs it doesn't make any sense to me um but that's a government thing that's not a town thing we don't so I understand you know we don't have any control over being a percent or not but if we're going to get into the habit which has kind of been the habit of these past two years of you know looking at five percent plus increases in wages every year and

concerned that we're going to see our taxes goes up next year well it's it go ahead I would just say the Laramie would say the answer to that is who knows you don't know and I don't think it's fair to give an answer personally because you know things went up but you know there's a hope the cost of gasoline and something might go down right so there's there's an increase in some places where you expect to decrease next year or hope for a decrease and what the expenditures next year what needs to be done I I don't know what the five or ten year plan calls for and expenses next year yeah I don't know what it is next year either but you know I think this is part of us trying to be responsible about you know we always say like we're constantly flying by the seat of our pants and we're trying to be responsible about looking out over the horizon that you say all the time and and making sure that we're not setting

up the resident the you know the taxpayers in the town for that burden in the operating budget to now either impact the capital or we have to now be raising that to cover it right so I guess I would say that um the one thing I can say with confidence is that at some point in the future taxes are going on right because that that is what we try to do is keep

any increases as low as possible and also have changes you know we look to you know find a steady state so that we don't get big spikes in big troughs that's that's where reserves comes in and I think I think you know Joe can speak to this better than I but one of the I think we talked about one of the first budget communities like one of the to Do's the kind of next steps for the CIP committee is they're going to look at just what you're talking about it's like is to not just look at what's on the schedule for the next five years but what's the spending slash saving plan for that so like what do we anticipate you know looking forward what do we anticipate you know should be in reserves or what what portion of that if any would be raised and what portion of it like Jerry is full of the idea when it comes time to buy the next plow truck or whatever that we should really look at a lease situation versus a purchase you know

another factor is you know in right now it's a little bit more expensive to borrow money but you know interest straights are a factor too like what we were experiencing the last several years the last few trucks we bought is like money was so cheap you're actually better off with the bond and paying one and a half two percent on a bond then grabbing Reserve money from people and sticking it in the account somewhere and then spending it you know three four years down the road so there's it's a very complex thing but I think there's a lot of people looking at it that share the same concern that we need to plan for the needs of the town the capital plans long term in a responsible way that has minimal impact to taxpayers but I think if the expectation is zero impact that that's just not realistic no I I don't think the but to go from zero this year and then 10 next year yeah I don't see anything even remotely the

only thing the only time I think somebody's going to see potentially see a big increase like that is is the result of a revaluation and if they have you know and that's coming at some point in the next few years you know but it shouldn't it shouldn't be as a result unless the town you know the only time the town has seen that in the past is when the town has voted to take on significant amount amounts of bond debt like when we you know with the public works stuff and some of the road stuffs you know and then with those situations all you can do is say you put it before the town and say this is this is what we think needs to be done and this is how much it's going to cost and like to Neil's point they either they either prove it or they don't you know if we don't spend the money we ask the question of the citizens and they're the ones that tell meaning that say yes or no on spending the money

department heads and Jerry have been working on that spreadsheet uh based on the input from the CIP and that's what CIP is looking for you know what do you expect moving forward and they've set up their spreadsheet which I believe got handed out to everybody at one point that shows you know where where some of the funds are going to be applied this year and then what might be raised for what equipment as it goes out through 2027. um so you know they they do have a plan and a proposed way to either raise the money or and they say raise because that's all they know right they don't they know they're not going to have the money so they're proposing whatever hundred thousand dollars this year for a a truck later on in two years so I mean that's a plan and and whether we funded at 50 or 60 or or the amount they asked for eventually you're going to get to a bottom line that you need that truck rent

home whatever whatever the case may be and then raise or find some other means to fund it when that time comes to be different next year we won't have to stream cross anybody that's 50 Grand and most of those are confined for one-time deals really they're going to add some overhead and maintenance but right and no they're not adding recurring expenses for the most part so the one thing that's going to be negative for us next year is the undesignated fund money we're using this year is significantly more than we did last year we use 75 grand last year from undesignated fund to offset taxes this year we're using 2 30 2 30 a.m we're saying 250 they're saying 230. well plus the fire department over yeah

that's real money but it's not part of that to whatever it's not part of the 23 budget it's considered part of the 22 budget so it's the the undesignated funds that you're deciding to put towards the 23 budget does not include the overages for solid

waste and Fire Department in 137. the understand that would that went in the unspent well it'll come out of it so yeah the net effect is that yes because there's a total of 252 984. for 230 the 200 plus 30 we added for the solid waste until it works and then you had the 14 344 for the solid waste that went over yeah and the 8638 right over the five times so we're going to draw out about designated funds a total of 252. that's right yeah but in terms of applied to the 23 budget it's the 230.

it's the two it's a 2K okay no it's it's still coming out of the fun but some of it's being applied to lashes budget and the majority is being applied to this year's budget but we are lowering my point was we can't we won't have as much money next year likely won't have as much money next year to use from undesignated as we do this year correct right right and so then people brought up the bond but the bond so like 160 but

when we're looking at the increase for this year and the operating budget it's 243. so I feel nervous about our number and we can talk about things a little bit more but I definitely be you know if nobody else is making a motion to revisit that number I feel like our number's too high um so one thing I want to add there Heather is that when you have to go another step I think when you just look at the operating budget you also need to look at the increase in revenues that came in from the state you know so not not that entire increase in operating uh budget

is being paid for by raise taxes you know there's a portion of it so I think if you want to look at you know the year to year tax impact you should really look at the municipal assessment number and you could back out undesignated or whatever if you wanted and you could get an idea of you know what's the impact of the revenues but um the the bigger concern I think in terms and the bigger potential for an increase on the municipal assessment side is if the economy tanks and state revenue drops then we don't have nearly as much revenue coming in against that and then and then you need to start looking at okay you might need to start actually cutting some stuff if because if the increase to offset the loss of Revenue would be too much the revenues tab Kevin and your and your budget impact spreadsheet yeah um I didn't look at all these numbers but you have estimated 2023 column and that number you had for auto

exercise for example was actually last year's by the way in that case it's last year's and that's being applied so is that true for the state revenue sharing as well state revenue sharing is an estimate so they what the state does is that they and uh in the last estimate was like last art for 23. so they give

you an estimated number like based upon what's going on in the economy because it's a percentage of sales tax revenues is what state revenue sharing is wow and so last year our actual came in a bit higher than what they had told us the estimate was this year the estimate that we've gotten from the state so far is for a slight decrease versus what we got last year 200 degrees so if they if you look at the um if you look at the if you hover over the comment there and this is something you know Jerry wanted to do that is 80 of the current state escort

you know and what he and talking to a lot of other Town managers you know because it's oftentimes a case that you that you don't get from the state what they say you've got to get for planning purposes in terms of Revenue they you know you you count 80 of it instead of 100 of it and then if it comes in 100 great right um but I will say but for the purposes of calculating the levy limit we did use 100 because we wanted to be um you know to take as much credit of that as possible and not overly inflate um what the limit would be so in that we did use 100

the administration I have um a couple of questions so when and I don't know if you all know the answer to this or not are there different versions of Trio in terms of what the um program offers two versions of Trio one is local client server and one of them is cloud-based okay so we use local client server okay I'd be interested to know do you know the cost difference between the two we have the cheapest one okay so you know how I love to like research and compare the town of monmouth's um 2023 2024 budget info is on their website and they pay 13 000 for trio so I'm trying to figure out who the town of Monmouth their their number for trio is thirteen thousand dollars so I didn't know if we had like a better version or like that number 21.

they may charge for for um for more local clients I don't know I don't know I don't know anything about their fee structure right that you know I don't remember Jerry would have to look into that I think Jerry said they they did have a user license and and he that was part of the reason why it was going up was because he was adding another user so so the clients are users

so they probably have a user fee a client fee yeah I mean that's just one of those things that like it would you know what I mean I want to find that out going forward like that's that's a big chunk um the other thing that I noticed if we are going to revisit um the administration budget is that in 2022 we had a federal election

um and so we have budgeted 7 500 in that line and we don't have a federal election this year and so um when I go back historically we typically do around 35 to 3 700 and I know you know people are like three thousand dollars looking over the budget but were like adding all of these things from all of these you know areas up I got 22.50 no the payroll oh payroll 7 500 yeah and so in other like years that are not federal election years it's typically around um 35 to 3 700. so just putting that up there I like that um and then this is for the budget committee that one oh it's not it's not about Administration so do you want me to wait no yeah okay um okay so that's what I have for Administration I guess we should ask the question does anybody want to revisit the administration vote no we voted on it twice it has to be done by emotions right I make a motion to ask the budget committee if they want to

revisit the administrative budget is there a second second so it's been moved by Jill and seconded by Heather that we revisit the vote made for regarding the administration that really wasn't the motion motion was to see if we wanted to do it right take a poll yeah it's about people that are interested in discussing the reasons why further I mean if there's if there are people that don't have any interest in revisiting then then I'll just be a person technically a motion to reconsider is what you're doing right and I I don't know for sure and I don't know if it really applies I think you can you can set your own rules you live by but I think it's how meaning and motion to reconsider would need a two-thirds vote

um so do you want me do this as a motion or you just want to have a discussion no I guess because there's no point in beating a dead horse leave it in the closet if you can come out on Town floor okay that like Jerry you know said at the beginning that he doesn't want Nest he knows that there's going to be questions and he knows that there's going to be um you know people have people that are not part of this process are going to have questions that they'd like to have answered the the back and forth back and forth back and forth he would like to see that hashed out here um I feel like as our evening progressed there were things that impacted early decisions in the meeting that came later right and I fully admit that when we talked about undesignated funds and you rightfully said you know you were all given this information that was an oversight on my part and I would have definitely voted differently

had had you brought you know how you said that ahead of the vote I'm not that's me that's on me that's not on you um and that and and that then in turn impacts what I would have voted or brought up for discussion about previous articles and so what you mentioned right now it makes a good point because if we

don't address the 7 500 that's currently in the budget that will become a permanent figure okay if we're able to go back historically and show that on on years that there are no federal elections the amount needed was 35 37 whatever 100 whatever the amount is then it by continuing that Trend but if not we have successive years both uh you know a year last year in which it was a federal election and then we have a year where there's not a federal election and that amount stays the same but it's probably going to happen is the 7 500 amount will go up we'll be there'll be it may be proposed a higher amount the next time we do have a federal yeah so I realize I'm being my own Devil's Advocate but we could also say that maybe we got the ear of the select Board and they'll make that change but the only problem there is then we're not going to town meeting with the same numbers we're going to tell me and we

might we might be a different reasons we might still not go with the same number but you know I think one of the things that resonated with me a lot out of town meeting last year was when a resident stood up and said it's not appropriate whether or not this is true or not there was someone there who felt this way that when we were getting up to speak as residents because when I'm here I don't consider my point of view I it's not just me I'm here representing everyone that you know I'm trying to at least and when I'm at town meeting I am speaking for myself but you can't remove the fact that you're a budget Committee Member and so this person you know said you've already had your chance you you've already put your vote out there you know you don't now get to come here and right well maybe they watched I don't know but I'm just saying I so I would feel more comfortable having done what Jerry has asked and you know really come

to an understanding here so that we can educate there but I'm not up there trying to make a case that I should have made here can I interject something only because I'm getting live text from our town clerk about the election results

us 7500 FYI there are three elections this coming year same as last year responding to Heather's comment and then I said well no federal though right it's just I think someone just put Federal on that line it should be election payroll and I said why do we need as much payroll this year with no big election since we still have Municipal School and November referendum so there are still three elections this year um and uh still still three 12 hours three times where the polls are open for 12 hours right so whether there's 8 000 people coming through or 800 people coming through 100 right I think it's the amount of time 400. you know I don't I'm making assumptions here because I haven't done the role and um to the respect really of the entire town hall none of us have done the role for I don't know last year was Federal wasn't it so my question so we haven't done one that's not federal like a

presidential election I think in and and my assumption is you're not here as late counting or not to see there's less balance you're open for those you're open for the 12 but you can't count during those 12. but how do you start I mean my problem is okay so now they're counting for three hours instead of five hours I mean now we're we're not talking about significant changes I don't know we're just talking about past it's usually half on a non-federal year

interpreting they have to recount right then then right then well last year when the question was raised at this meeting um why because what happened was it got doubled it went from 37 to 75 and and so the answer was the reason why it was double was because of the primary and the the big election right it does it does take more man hours is what's been explained over the past few years but so

it's fine I voted no all along so even if somebody wants to tell me well you can't speak at town meeting because you voted no well I'm trying to explain to you why I voted no so um let's have the vote let's see where it goes

right want to revisit the admin budget vote or Recon all right would you say reconsider yeah you can reconsider it and it only takes a majority Josh looked it up it's not true Josh so why what I would like why one other thing besides the historic election situation we've called the vote can we still have discussion I'm letting the discussion go on um

increase right um and that's looking at just what has happened from the beginning of 2022 to the end of 2022. and if we look back at 2021 and I know there was you know Market adjustments colas this that the other thing there are multiple lines where multiple employees have seen a 25

pay increase in that time frame from 2021 to that from today the end of 2021 to the end of 2022 and so it goes back to what I originally said when we first started talking is the way that this is embedded in this um makes it difficult and so the only tool that we have is the total number um I I feel like you know even if the

structure has typically been that people I don't know what this I mean if this is a complete Anonymous nobody said and just to clarify so so far the only what we voted on um and approved was we we um was fifteen thousand dollars less um with contingency funds in mind um based on what you're saying um you'd like to perhaps reduce it by a few thousand because that election payroll she's not done yet do you have anything else just so we have that because that might influence how people evolve whether or not to reconsider right so what I'm trying to do is not put the voters in a situation where we are

um continually this type of pay structure continues to snowball well we don't want to know why we want to know what what do you say and to cut that that's and then we can have the discussion once we know we have an idea of what you're going to do that's going to influence how we vote whether or not to reconsider the vote tell us tell us where your cuts are going to be held and then we can vote and have the discussion so I appreciate you want to give them the context yeah that's putting them so I'm I'm comfortable with the way that the pay structure in this is going and so rather than taking five percent of the year-end annualized total right

and I I don't know if that's how this is done this is that's definitely not how I give my raises in my business and so a raise on the money that they've made we're giving people a raise on the money that we are projecting that they're going to make and like Kevin said that always ends up being a higher amount than what was originally budgeted for it just feels like this constant Snowball Effect to to the point that multiple positions have

received 25 to 20 27 pay increase from reconsidered to decrease in the bottom line to about 520 000 and if you look at the inherited 2022 budget into 2023 it's a 5.92 increase which is on par with what the other departments have been now I haven't had time to reneg the num refigure the numbers finding out that the manager's salary is under contract so we're stuck with that um but there you go if it's reopened for a vote that's where I would start the discussions that there's increase in hours for those guys yes from 32 to 36 I guess it was yes I think you technically have to call the boat because now you can go there's not for this emotion um and it's been seconded to reconsider the vote uh previously taken regarding the administration operating budget Bill those are in favor of reconsidering our vote please say so one two three four five it's about five to three all right so now I'll take a motion okay so as I said

um and I don't know if I want to make it a motion because honestly I'm open to discussion and adjusting the number a little bit but if I were to make emotion and you guys tell me if you want me to make a motion you can put it down and then have a discussion with the new number uh as I said I tried to put in the numbers and I

guess I should well it won't automatically recalculate because I'm not as good as Kevin on spreadsheets but um things um in my mind because it was that if you just got hired this year I know I was always taught if you go into a job the amount that you ask for you're assuming you're not going to get a raise in the next couple of years so you know don't as everyone who has said you know I was a really good negotiator for what I got paid um yeah and well several of them have said that um so I went into it where I came up with the 520 is I went into it thinking that number one um we wouldn't be doing colas for people that were just hired less than a year um sorry that is a policy decision in that I'm explaining where I came to my number I'm not saying people have to agree with it I'm just saying where I came to my number it was the discussion I'm sorry just wait for our discussion okay oh recognition

um so I came to it based on that and based on um negating the 15 000 which the budget already recommended negating and honestly it came to 516 317 and I bumped it up to the 520. so so the actual amount that you reduced it because of that percent difference can you give me that number say this again the number that you use you just you gave an explanation about the increase so you can't you came down to 5 16. yeah when I put the numbers into the spreadsheet and it negative debited at all it came to 516 317.

and then you just I was like well round it off well I was like okay people might think that's a little bit too tight of a number so and I I like nice round numbers you know you come to my business you're not charged 1.99 for something is two dollars um so I just have five hundred and twenty thousand dollars so which if you figure out what the inherited budget is the inherited budget is 490

925.27 budget it's a 5.92 increase from the inherited budget yeah it's an inherited budget inherited budget is the budget that Jerry was handed because of the last two Town managers and the select board making hirings at a higher wage than what was budgeted for at the 2022 meeting so the way I was trying to look at it is what is Jerry actually asking for a department increase you had the fire department was actually asking for a six percent increase same with the public works or five something so I was trying to the difference though

if I may can I milk yes yes the difference though is that public works and fire department are essentially status quo budgets no no operational changes proposed by those departments no change in how they do their work it's just standard what we did last year plus inflation extra cost of utilities labor or whatever but there are significant changes operational changes proposed in

the administration budget I didn't cut those when I was adjusting my numbers when you are when you're trying to take the percent increase in administration to a level comparable to what there is for fire and public works that's exactly what you're doing okay increased it to that I increased it to that to be honest with you so can I can I speak for a minute okay so um I'm not I don't know if I'm agreeing with the change in the cola or anything like that but here's my thought process of how to get it down if you took the 75 um 100 election budget and you lowered it to 38 which was a normal regular year that would save you thirty seven hundred dollars if you took the health family plan out and moved it to a single it would save you thirteen six five one which if he has to hire someone with a family plan he has the ability to go

um and I wouldn't vote on designated funds but he can go to the emergency fund that has sixteen thousand dollars in it that he could ask the town select board and the budget committee to vote on so you'd have access to that but it wouldn't be in the budget to be in the budget every year so if I subtract those out it comes to 521 273. so we're kind of on target the same way it's just a different thought process

um using emergency funds as your backup to fund an operational expense that you just don't want to put in the budget is not good practice why not because because that's not an emergency an emergency is the pipes froze over at Eureka Center or something of that you know but just to to say that to underfund legitimate operational items and say well we can just take the money out of the emergency fund which only has sixteen thousand dollars in it now if that fund had like two hundred thousand dollars in it I'd be like okay why it's only got sixteen thousand dollars in it which it doesn't take much to spend sixteen thousand dollars in an emergency right or whatever gets sucked up by Eureka are we replacing that emergency fund at all this year there's there's no there is no Warren article this year to put money in the so that leads me to and well we'll talk about that after although it might impact this so maybe we should talk

about it now um if there's no Warren article when you were talking about what our bylaws are and what our task is can our do we have the capability to make a budgetary recommendation to them only to them yeah okay you have to count four make all the recognitions you want but if it's not a warrant article like if we if we were interested in doing what you're saying what you suggested in the emergency fund for whatever reason right because sixteen thousand dollars isn't a lot of money um and there's no warrant article to address that then I get up at Town floor and I say that but if there's no warrant article how does that happen so if we did the contingency change and the election payroll change just making sure that I didn't fudge anything just as that would be 535 924. okay you got to take it and we did we already made that change I mean it seemed like on both votes we voted out the contingency we did vote out the

contingency payroll amount yeah my my thought is um you know if it turns out you didn't need that family so there's that little extra in the budget should something else be needed you know was because maybe somebody using a previous argument maybe someone else changes from a single to a family so there's your your contingency um we've already reduced we reduced the original budget by 15 so now if we would do which brought us down to 538 624 I wouldn't touch that the salary but based on what I just said but then if we now reduce um the election payroll by the 3700 that

um um Jane just mentioned you now have 538 624 minus 3700 and you come out to 535 924. and if we vote this motion down that would be my recommendation what is the motion right now five there is no motion I was just having discussion oh oh you if you were to make a motion we're going to do 520. yeah because I wanted to have discussion as a board but I'll make a motion I make a motion that the town appropriates 535 924 dollars for the administration

budget is there a second it's been moved by melt and seconded by nail that it's not appropriates 535 000 raises 535 924 dollars for the administrative operation budget discussion [Music] foreign I think my thought process with the um taking that out is I I believe those funds are going to be spent no matter what because we're going to hire an accounting service and that was already brought up to be sixty five seventy thousand dollars so we made seventy thousand dollars to do that so you're changing your thought process no I'm just saying I'm just saying that that money will be spent there is no much money the money the 24 5 is going to be spent because it's

needed I think we need to get Iraq together there absolutely or or the books need to be reconciled but my fear is that if we do that that's permanently in the budget for the budget process on that line no matter what so next year they're going to look for that plus more or if somebody comes in and doesn't need it I mean the old Deputy Treasurer used the family plan and so you know we're kind of making an assumption just because nobody else is using it here we're just kind of writing the hope that nobody will ever use the the family well I know which is kind of crazy but according to this she didn't any further discussion okay seeing none it's been moved and seconded that the town

um raises 500 and 35 900 or appropriates 535 924 dollars for the administrative operational budget all those in favor one two three four it's a vote five two all those all those again because they don't have something sustaining so five to three yeah okay number five thirty five thirty five

nine twenty four rejection was the 15th for contingency and we took 37 after the election yeah okay it comes out exactly that but yeah okay um Jessica's good just gonna have to count faster well it's it's a classical we gotta do what we need to do elections right

and again they can fight it too that doesn't make any lines I'm sorry I'm sorry in my one more discussion regarding on designated funds but Heather you said you did yeah all right so the discussion for that um oh sorry um [Music]

so foreign because little fried Thursday night and I didn't realize that the overspent was going to be voted on prior that I'm actually not comfortable increasing the transfer for more than two hundred thousand dollars um to cover this budget for a couple of reasons one um

undesignated budget and I don't I don't want to spend it down too far um and so we truly do know how much is in it and to Neil's point to that we don't tend to transfer that amount and I that we might be able to dip into next year if this inflation and everything keeps going the way that it's going that we have a little bit of a protection and an option I have a question Neil before the meeting started you were trying to arrive at a total number and you were saying um 10 million I was Dr I was talking to Kevin about a policy proposal that I I want to make that makes it a policy for the town to

have 60 of the total time budget for the uh undesignated fund but the language it's either the total expenditures or the total I don't know what the right word is money raised uh the assessment I mean yeah the assessment yeah the assessment is what we actually charge in taxes so the so the two months worth and arriving at the 1.6 was being based off an 8 million and change number yes well that was right well the one if you the

16 on 10 million would be one would be 1.6 million right yes so right now so in and enjoy your right that we don't know we don't know exactly what's you know with 100 confidence what's in undesignated because Trio has a higher number than the auditor's report we're very comfortable with the auditor support the honors we know it's at least one nine right right the honors report is one nine uh this year uh and but that's the end of 21. okay that 1.95 that's the report that was the 21 on okay so we know in 22. we

appropriated like and used like 76 000 to change or something like that and we also know we rolled um uh 136 000-ish from unspent 22 funds uh back into unvisated this year but that will be lower because of our overspend insurance yeah yeah so I'll get there so that that puts us that puts us in about roughly a confident level that we think does minimum of two million right so we're talking so you have a four hundred thousand dollar amount before you would get 1.6 which is 16 of the 10 million the Neo's talking about so even using the you know the 230 plus the overages we are we will still be well above the 16 uh number and possibly even higher than that depending on how Trio and the Auditors report reconcile against yeah you can find that a half million I guess I guess kind of the thoughts in in my head is and maybe I'm just more conservative with my business because you know I've also have been told try

and have in savings two months worth of expenses and the auditor told us that in 2021 two months worth of expenses was 1.6 million dollars we've made a lot of increase in our expenses since 2021. so well there I spoke with the auditor about this today I don't know if you were in the room in you know um I asked her because we were we were trying to get a handle on numbers to be a little bit more definitive and and uh to make sure we weren't going too deep and I definitely came out of that conversation completely comfortable that we aren't going to be you know because the she said there's nothing there's nothing magical about the 16 rule or the two-month rule or whatever you know it's really ultimately it's you know what the town is comfortable with she says she's seen towns as low as eight percent you know in terms of uh expenditures and you know other towns are much more conservative so it's kind of all over

the place so the um so so the other argument that I would make about this situation is that we still are currently on a June uh January to December year and we keep hearing the town manager talk about cash flow cash flow cash flow cash flow and that we are at levels where where a tan comes into

place and so the more that we take out of undesignated the less it the the closer it puts us into that situation which is another reason why at least for this year until we do get the books all straightened out and we know exactly what we have available um I would like to see us be a little bit more conservative right here right now you know for that reason if we change our fiscal year and we split the tax um collection so that our cash flow situation is better than maybe I would be more comfortable going down you know to a lower recommendation but right now given the fact that we keep hearing about this cash flow problem we would end up playing interest on a tan you know that type of thing I I would like to see us be conservative especially because we are able to use the arpa funds in addition to you know the other stuff that we're doing yeah I mean I don't I'm not proposing we go below 200.

um the select or the budget committee voted to go above 200 transferring to the operation budget and my thoughts kind of was so it was arpa or whether it's undesignated fund you still got it from me at one point in time um but you know right now in a sense we're talking about using a half a million dollars of unraised funds to cover this budget well the undesignated was raised at one point and unraised this year yeah I'm trying to think of a phrase that I'd use that effort but so I I'm not comfortable going above the 200 000. I would like to see where we

land next year um that's not an unreasonable and and right I'm just explaining my position I'd like to see where we land next year and then maybe that allows us instead of using our traditional 70 or our traditional just transferring over unspent from the last fiscal year it allows us to dip into undazonated a little bit more somebody also asked me this question and I'm not an accountant I have no clue but we keep talking about we want to change our calendar year and how do we do that without a huge tax

impact to the citizens and one person did say to me if we find out our undesignated is flush at that two and a half million dollars or 2.4 million dollars is it possible to use that as a bridge as our Bridge of changing a calendar year and I

don't know the answer so that's the other reason why I'd like to be a little more conservative in what we transfer because if the answer is yes I'm going to really be kicking myself in the butt if I voted to use some of it this year I mean you can always use whether it's for a bridge for that or whatever you every dollar you use if undesignated is one less dollar you the race so like when it goes the other way too every dollar less you use if I'm designated as a dollar more you have to raise right so to without getting going down the rabbit hole of fiscal year I'll give you the thirty thousand foot thank you I want to know that one so um basically what what happens is at some you have the choice you have to either do a um to get on the uh July

June Cadence at some point what the town will have to do is either do AIDS after we go through this process immediately do another six month budget or you go through this process within 18 month or two so to kind of get you on that keys and then what happens is you start collecting taxes every six months or twice a year instead of once a year it on paper what happens is that

um citizens somewhere along the line you pay 18 months of taxes in a 12-month period but that sounds scary yeah but it's really it doesn't mean you're not paying it in advance so what happens is you come around and you pass that um uh that budget right the 18-month budget so what you would do is let's say now that August payment is for the sake of argument stays in August you're paying six months well you've just paid your you've just paid your year coming out of the last like calendar budget and then six months later you're paying six months so that's your 18 months within 12 month period but like you're

you're basically paying part of the next 12 months early right so if you have escrow the money's been going into the escrow for those six months and rather than waiting to come around in 12 months you're sending a check at six months so it's not like people have to save up an extra six months of tax money and pay in advance that's one of that's that's one of the things that really scares people about moving ways that they think that's going to happen that makes sense for people who have a mortgage but yeah if you're older people that are on a fixed income that that situation is scary but it's still the same thing though Heather because whatever method you're using to like set money aside for property taxes whether it's a private savings account or an escrow account or whatever um you know it's hopefully people are being improved they're just sending happier payment early and not winning which is but which

is why I think you know there has to be time especially for people who are on a fixed income to prepare for that and and I don't I think I'm I can't remember what the answer was I know I've asked this question before about whether or not we vote as a town to do that or if the town manager has the authority select board the select board has in a meeting in this form of government select board has sole Authority on setting uh tax assessment dates and setting Town meetings um and call you know when to call a town meeting but I agree 100 I think you know and Jerry and I have talked about this that you know a change like that even though you don't technically have to have a town meeting vote on it there's a huge communication and education and planning aspect of it so it would be the type of thing that you know um you would probably announce that you're going to do like a year from now right not like not not going to show up at

like you know a town meeting on April 1st and say you know okay by the way this this July we're moving to a fiscal year and so you can expect you know this it it really it needs to be well communicated and planned like way in advance so what an area you're not the people are not come having to come up with extra money it's just their

month there shouldn't be a problem right but if they're not budgeting and they're waiting for some windfall that comes once a year like you take your taxes I don't know yeah current tax collection doesn't really align with tax rebate time no our current one does the tax rate I'm in agreement with the thought of the 200 000. Mark um I I we when I listening to the select boy when they uh came up with that amount I was comfortable with their ex with their rationale of doing it um to me it's unrealistic to to Hope or to do

to do things that keep taxes flat because I that's not that's not real you can keep them flat for so long and then you're going to see you're going to pay um so I you know to use undesignated funds to lower the burden as I think the select would have used that verbiage before um is appropriate you know but to keep you to use higher amounts so that you know there's hardly any increase in all at all we're gonna we we know historically that's not we've we paid that price we paid that price 15 years ago when then for the next dozen years or so we could not tap the undesignated funded because uh I mean when I first started on the budget committee every budget had undesignated funds thrown into it and and without keeping track of it we got to a point that we couldn't use on designated funds anymore so I'd rather be take a conservative role and

um use it too low to you know lower the ease the burden yeah supplement but but not not I mean taxes need to go up what's your most unrealistic yeah well what's your emotions perfectly we have no control of that I mean go to the go to the grocery store and tell them they don't have it right control of the school budget you need to go to their meetings I'm just focusing on our budget and and I think it's unreal that we've done very very well and I commend the select board and I and the select put his work and the best committee have worked well with each other I think the last few years and I'm total agreement and I know not everybody loves my points of view sometimes um but but tax increases have been minimal a lot less than other towns you can't you can't have a zero or a half a percent increase every year forever it's not realistic I don't want to see uh a seven percent increase I don't want to

see a six percent increase I'd fight against a five percent increase but if we're only talking you know two three four percent increase to me is is realistic um and so I I don't want to use on designated funds to keep a tax increase flat because we're gonna though Something's Gonna Come up in the future that that's going to save the day and if you don't have the monies then we're doomed well I think it goes to the point that all the stuff Neil's been doing which is it is uh it is a taxpayers money that's sitting in there so what is we talk about what's the safe amount I mean two million dollars isn't going to be much of a bridge for that extra six months we're spending 800 000 a month two months later our Reserve fund's gone so we're going to have to tax differently but I guess and we don't need to do it tonight and we go back to 200 or 230 whatever it is but we ought to have a plan that says we

don't need to just keep putting money into the into the bank taking it from the voter to put in the bank what is the right amount to keep and I'm not sure we're ready to decide that this evening but you know would if you go to 250 it takes us down to 1.7 million give or take we think 1.6 is good so there's still to me that's still conservative so what I'm trying to say is as a group as a town we say this we need to be at 16 percent safety line 15 20 let's pick a number and then that would make our job easier to say we're going to be at 22 and we can we can do 300 000 next year or we could buy a new fire truck with it right did you want to speak I just wanted to

we're talking about so many different things here at what number are we trying to work to here yeah I would like to make a motion to revisit the funding article of appropriating undesignated funds to the operating budget because I would like to be in line with the select boards previous recommendation of two hundred thousand dollars is there a second all right I'll take that uh so it's been moved by Jill and seconded by Rod that we revisit our

to appropriate from undesignated from the undesignated fund balance used towards the 2023 budget appropriation is there any further discussion I would ask the selectman are they going to stay at 200 are they going to go to 236 to cover uh well so I put that out if number out there is my opinion I mean it wouldn't be appropriate for us to have that discussion as a board right now because we're not in a board hoping we budget um so I think that will be a board discussion when we meet on the 14th can we get a personal opinions

and maybe I'm not picking up everything that you're saying but I think it's a little contradictory to I mean I'll just leave it at that and I think I think that number is appropriate so may I clarify Josh you say 236 so that's the total of the overspent Articles along with a 200 000 transfer because we voted 230 I thought right that was to cover the projection for solid waste contract and it was a public works thing right there was a gas increase there was a gas increase and there was a solid waste increase in that amount was 230 right the budget committee voted for 230 on operation budget Josh said 236 so I was just trying to clarify where he got that number from the I think the difference is um the 236 comes from uh

the most recent Solid Waste it was 16 000 for gas and yeah that's like another well maybe that 236. so the simple answer then Josh is 236 is what you're recommending just right now right now this recommendation is is 200 right so the board will discuss you know because when we do our final vote a board member May make a motion to change that based upon information that came in after we said the initial and just to point out to everyone so if 200 or 2 000 was approved it covers the 14 344 90 overage from the solid waste it

covers the 8638 from the fire department overage and it covers the thirty thousand extra um for the fuel increase in solid waste and it still adds an extra ten thousand dollars um I think you did two you did the solid waste in the gas twice

rounded another 20 for solid waste that's where I came up for 2023 for 23 yeah right those are second questions on the warrant and there's you know there's really no there's really no debate about those two things so total coming out of undesignated funds you're thinking 236 to cover the 2023 budget plus plus plus the overages 22 22 000 from the 22. right yeah

200. already covers it no 200 000 decision if I have it my mind right that if you only agree to say 200 the number 200 then the balance will be raised to cover correct other expenses I just want to so everybody's yeah wholehearted like why you want to Absolute taxes versus going into contact debate funds with all the rationale behind you yes I'm not going to be any debate I will say that um I am I am

swayed by milt's argument about the because we know we like I said we know that it's going to go up at some point and so part of it is part of the question is next year or a bigger one next year right and I feel like with the arpa funds as part of it I would rather see

that split then well because if you're looking at the schedule right if you're looking at what equipment and what the things on the plan were that needed to be replaced some of those things are things that needed to be replaced in this cycle or next cycle and so if we're using arpa funds to cover those reducing the tax burden if we didn't have that as an option then we would either be having to transfer arrays to pay for those things and so if so we are using arpa in

an appropriate way right but those things are not things that weren't an expectation on the horizon it's not just like a we're gonna put in a trail system that we hadn't already accounted for those are items that were in the plan

and were saving that money if we weren't if we didn't have arpa we would be had having to raise or transfer to cover those expenses if we're sticking to the plan and if we voted for them right I mean that's that's the question right now the motion is whether or not to reconsider Tower earlier vote it's right

are we ready to make to take a vote we're voting to revisit yeah so it's been moved and seconded that we reconsider our earlier vote to um for the amount we want to appropriate from the undesignated fund balance used towards the 2023 budget approach appropriation those in favor of reconsidering our previous vote please indicate so one two three four to four yeah you don't have a majority All Right Moving On what's the last thing on the um that was it was a question of um Neil had a proposition and I would like to hear I I want to hear that too much I had I had one free well I have a question about it and then I wanted to discuss as a committee so that I don't know how it would work okay number one do if we were going to have a special

election to appropriate the remaining arpa funds would that do you see that coinciding with like a school budget vote or another what I'm trying to do is preemptively save the cost of another special meeting there may not that are we up to the future board very likely you'll be sitting on you know we don't have enough money you don't need this you don't need it right the town doesn't have to vote on that it does but it doesn't have to be you can wait so that's my thing my public comment at this left board meeting was going to be to because I mean I feel like across all of these conversations about arpa and all of the conversations outside of official meetings and this that and the other thing is that you know the technology upgrades that need to be made at the Eureka Center to have that become an option for a meeting space are really important to people and so I would like to see that amount of money that is

remaining that hasn't been allocated out of arpa either on this warrant I would like to see it on this warrant um you know to even though we don't have a number the way we didn't before about how much the computers were going to cost and stuff like that I think that the sediment sentiment that I have gathered from you know all of the different committees in the meetings and the residents is that that's where they would like to see that money spent and so I would like to see that as a warrant article that whatever our dollar amount is after we've allocated this is that that money is going to go to that purpose and so in a preemptive way I know we don't have a budget article but I mean I mean a warrant article but we don't technically have any warrant articles yet if if I go to the select board meeting on Tuesday and officially you know ask for that we're here now rather than having to reconvene take a vote on

whether if that were to be I don't even know if that's legal to become a Warren article that we would take a vote to either recommend or not so select board can that it can asking the town how to spend arpa funds can that be just a question on a

ballot for this when we have an election for the school board Vote or can it be on a ballot for November or does it need to truly be a town meeting no so you can it needs to be a town meeting but you you can call a referendum Town either so like for instance you could like we did during the pandemic right so you could um call a uh a special town meeting and that coincides with the school budget validation and just have it on and have a ballot there that does you gotta need to go back and put in your election funds because now you've you've gone into 30 days of absentee voting and the paper ballots which is why I'm proposing 30 days in November you have any time you have a referendum vote and this is state law absentee ballots need to be available for 30 days in fact even for um because our Municipal elections is a written uh you know it's a technical name is secret ballot election absentee ballots are available 30 days

will be available 30 days before town meeting for to come here and do the but we're already doing that in November anyways well why are you worried about the Opera money it's there it's ours no no I'm not worried about it I want I want the

like that was what has come out of every public hearing and you know all of that stuff and all of the things that we're using the arpa funds for don't address that at all and so what amount is left there rather than have to wait call another meeting do absentee ballots blah blah blah we're in this situation where we're allocating These arpa funds I personally feel like that was the number one priority to people and I would just like to see us just take care of it now so that we don't have to wait that that's where I am on that I think the biggest problem is we don't know what Eureka is going to cost us that's exactly it I mean I I think it's more what's 23 000 for technology but you're gonna have I mean there's no handicap Ada uh restroom there's no parking lot I

mean we got a bunch of stone and it works fine occasionally there's no lights I just think there's a lot of money that and I'm we can't unvote for it well what do you mean like it's Opera phones yeah yeah you can you kind of like for instance you could you could it would take another special tummy you'd have to have a combo do you want to reallocate you know to a different person I think we have time to do our homework and just have it and not you know and that's that's why we weren't ready and you know and I I don't necessarily agree that like that was the overwhelming number one thing I mean what we heard we heard a lot of things well we heard the main message was use it to offset known Capital expenses so that's what we've done um but definitely a lot of people want to there is energy to upgrade the Eureka for those purposes but the board didn't feel we were ready to go anywhere with the yet because we don't have

any cost information so that's an important that needs to be done um you know as soon as can reasonably be done and get them get the question before voters but it wasn't ready to go time frame on that Opera fund yeah no we have to well there is you have to you have to allocate it or in essence voters have to vote on what to do with it by the end of 24 and then you have to actually have spent all the money by the end of 26. so you have some time I thought it was in our bank account it is um right but at the end of 26 you have to return it if it's not spent it's not going to happen the only thing the only thing yeah and I don't think we're in danger of it but you will you hear the news when they talk about funding things about you know retrieving unspent covered money you know that's that's what they're talking about right so Neil what was your proposition you wanted you want to present a policy

you're at least considering presenting a policy to the select board and I'd like to hear more about it I can make a motion to see if everybody else wants to hear more about it because we can have coffee but Municipal capital and the money we can't nobody has the answer well maybe there's a question so um so despite the um Reserve fund balance spreadsheet shows that the balance as of January 1st 22 there was 97 632 dollars in the municipal capital and then it's showing the as of 1231 the

balance is 30 512 and we haven't been able to get an answer of what happened to that 60 it shows sixty thousand dollars less well we know it's for the market eval but where is it we don't know where it was entered um it's still in that account so 60 000 was appropriated so what's not here is so sixty thousand appropriated it wasn't spent and so there's nothing here in the unspent appropriation column so and that's what it was so it stays in that account I think I think it's just not showing ah it's only 60. everybody all right wow there's some money in that account is that only for the assessing or is that money for other purposes as well no that's it that's in the municipal Capital account right now actually you know what that might be where it is we did um because we set up I mean we it's Municipal Reserve there's a reserve account for assessing it but this is the first year we're just setting it up

because we're we're setting aside um some money each year that's one of the questions to save up to pay for the full assessment so I don't think we put anything in there yet yeah so I don't have a clear answer but it wasn't spent I can tell you that it's it's in an account somewhere yeah and then if if I have questions about like specific Revenue lines I don't expect that you guys are gonna have the answer to that um and I don't we don't none of us are going to have the answer to that is that an appropriate thing like ask I had asked Jerry for a meeting for that type of thing right to not take up everybody's time asking about specific Revenue lines while the revenue lines most of them represent actual Revenue that we took in right so there's one line miscellaneous and and I my understanding is that two things were put into that line and that line is not showing anywhere near the total of those

two I I don't know what that might be but we know I mean I mean one thing we do know is that this is this is a another leg of the trio issue and it's not the problem with the trio tool it's the problem of things not being posted and so there's there's a lot that there's going to be um probably a fair amount of what's the proper like Ledger book or whatever adjustments like you know what happens yeah right this right Journal this this money was supposed to be over here and this money was supposed to be over here so that's the that's part of what's made it a challenge to put together a clear this is where we are picture because there's been so much disorganization in those postings so he's they're working on figuring all that out kind of the term we've been using is you know re-establishing the Baseline so that going forward you know we're speaking intelligently there's not much speculation

but to that one I they'd have to go into Trio and see what was posted specifically against that in Pacific and mine well what about this thing they'd have to find it in Trio and find where it was posted and maybe an adjustment but I don't think I don't think that's I don't think that's something that necessarily needs to be resolved no no I don't either but those but that's the thing where like the point that I keep making is that there are these things that I would like to scrutinize right and there's never that opportunity and I'm just trying to be respectful of everybody's time asking for a meeting to be able to do that kind of thing suggestion though but I mean we're about to go off and get somebody to look at this and wreck themselves and books I mean asking the questions before that's reconciled doesn't seem to be approved use of times so John I would like to make motion that we adjourn well um we

have we were going to give Neil a chance we want to let the slight board leave uh we're going to give Neil a chance to explain his quality idea so if there's no more questions for any of the slug board Representatives thank you very much

policies Josh thank you thank you guys so very simply it was just a policy recommendation to determine that we're going to keep me a certain number in the investigative fund so I was reading your proposal did you were you proposing for instance for this year to keep a minimum of 1.6 million was part of your proposal that if we're above that we put it towards that that Year's operating budget yes that's the whole purpose most towns have a policy for that for what I can tell gray has one panel has one and it's basically it's they're a little bit different and the way they get to the numbers a little bit different but so my question would be two things one in reference to the article that you sent about the undesignated fund balance

being able to help whether the Peaks and valleys would whatever what are you proposing that perhaps whatever amount or percentage we would come to because if we if we were trying to do that there may be some years if we're forecasting that would require a higher number to be able to absorb a peak versus another year where there would be a valley do you see what I'm saying and if we always just year after year I mean it grows each year yeah I like your idea I was thinking of maybe making it a little bit higher though so that you do have a little bit extra padding in the undesignated fund so if you get a scare year or something overspent then you might have a little bit extra money in there that you could put to towards a bad year and my concern is that that two months

again is based on two-year-old data so no space to space on current budget but it's not too much it's 10 million dollars or 2023 budget yeah okay okay and expenses okay okay but the weren't oh the expenses I see I see okay there's a couple ways to do it I just said that there's nothing happened with this like board so yes don't worry I like your idea though so when you present it give me a call and I'll be happy to stand beside you yes anything else come before this committee this evening so that's it um so remind just a reminder that um I hope you'll all come and attend town meeting um even though we all typically sit together at town meeting you are not prevented and in fact encouraged to speak up as a resident so if it's something that um you know the budget committee may have voted One Direction but do really have a different thought you are welcome to speak um you know on your own behalf

um I don't I wouldn't want to try to mute that at all but I definitely encourage you to come and you know let let people see how you are come sit with the budget committee and let people see that you were part of uh this process and the whole of throws footballs last yeah exactly is there a motion to adjourn I make motion we adjourn second all those a favor thank you everybody okay thanks for your service to the town