TranscriptPlanning Board Meeting ~ December 7, 2016

of the planning board, December 7th, 2016. Um, we have a quorum. Um, like to have a pledge in pledge of allegiance. United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

agenda? Seeing none, uh acceptance of minutes from the October. Yeah, October. Yeah. Anybody see anything out of the ordinary? the October 5th meeting. Second. All those in favor. Todd um I will I be a participating yes member today. Okay. Just want to make that clear. All right. Thanks.

I'm sorry. That's all right. I should do that as established with quorum, but I'm sorry that all right. New business. Mr. Bowie up to the table and tell us your plight. and we decided to do just one phase of it instead of all of it. So, we do a lot of uh clear house lots basically

and we've been in that process for the last three years. We've decided that uh rather than burning brush piles in uh clearing off house lots that uh we like to find a way to recycle and uh reuse all of the uh everything from the stumps to the brush to the pulp. home markets have dropped off and um so we kept looking for a piece of land and um in conjunction with the the crookers I proposed to them what I had for an idea and uh they agreed to do a land swap with me and and um they thought it would be a great uh a good thing that we were doing. They they were quite interested and uh could see that there was a use for that in the public. Um, so the there's probably five or six products that we'd be uh we'd receive in either brush stumps off for our own jobs, but also from other contractors. Um, it's extremely hard during the summertime, as you know, when the fire chief is dry. Decided to give those permits for guys

to clear off the house lot. So, we're trying to give an avenue for that to come back. And out of those products, the uh stumps are probably the biggest concern of the what people get alarmed about. But um if you ever seen the black silk fence that's used around construction sites, um groundup stumps is a substitute for that instead of the black silk fence. Um

the uh it's quite common. It's becoming more and more used u widely used by a lot of contractors. And when you're done, you're not you're not left with that silk fence there. You basically once the grass is established or you've stabilized your construction site, the uh it acts as a buffer zone um a filter really from any water running off back into the woods. You just kind of level it out and it continues to act as a a filter. So, we've uh done some projects uh uh commercial clearing um in

a couple of places and I've had grindings done three times and we've always been able to sell um either use on our own jobs or sell to other contractors and the last couple of times I would actually sold everything directly from the construction site itself that was in excess of what we needed um to a couple of contractors. Uh so it's becoming quite popular and uh the other product would be out of the brush is to either make biomass which that market's kind of tight on as well but uh we wanted to expand that into the base for um composting. Um you need carbon along with your nitrogen to make good compost. the you grind up the uh the wood chips and or the uh the brush

in a fine product and then you mix it in with that in windrows. So last in in foresight of trying to find a facility last summer I took the main compost class uh which my son and both of my sons will be taking the spring again um as well as I and it kind of opened my eyes to you know how the how the process works what to do right what to do wrong and in that process I also found out that D regulates that um compost as well as wood grindings they're actually two separate permits but both are regulated by the D And um they're actually quite

the setbacks and other considerations that you'd be looking at as well. They're they're actually much more stringent than what the town is asking for. I think on your commercial zone, you ask for 100 foot setback. They're asking from 500 ft from any well. Um so it's pretty pretty strict process and it's actually a good oversight. Um so I think there's a little bit of protection there as far as what we're doing. The firewood business. Um my son started one his freshman year of college and um we've been operating that together. Uh it's a small firewood processor. I think there's four other ones in town, very similar.

Yeah. Um and so we have one of those. We'd like to move that over here eventually. Um we have it set up in Topsummit right now. When uh our stockpile of wood is gone there, then we'd like to, you know, bring that business over here. And we'd also uh one of the things we wanted to be open to the public as well. Um, leaves is one of the, uh, bigger items that we'd like to compost, lawn, rakings, leaves, uh, and that type of stuff. Small breast piles from homeowners when they're doing the spring and fall cleanup. We want to be open to the public and receive that in and be able to incorporate that into um, into what we're doing. Um, so kind of add a service. Uh I know now I think I don't know if you have a contract with a free port or or where if people are just putting them out behind the house but if we can give a spot for people to to uh accumulate that stuff then we can do a little bit more with it than just let it

sit in the in the backyard. So in a nutshell I guess that's kind of where where we're at. I've been in several times to see. Not yet. Okay. Not yet. Um I mean the the D permits will be conditional. This will be conditional on that.

That's the I can't pursue the D permit without the approval from the town of Durham first. That's the first requirement. Said it wouldn't even look the application. So yeah. So here I am. Did you say you have this is under contract to purchase?

I mean, uh, yes. Yeah. Somewhere in there is a letter from Krookers that that I had permission to pursue the the permit and we're in negotiations with each other. So, but I kind of wanted to get through this process before I committed fully.

Okay. Yeah. So, you don't have any purchase and sale or anything on the property? We have a we have a verbal agreement on what we're going to do. Yes. Okay. So, but it's Well, not really contingent, but So, it makes sense to uh make sure I can do what I want to do before I

Sure. So, if the sale doesn't go through, you're still going to use it? It's actually not a sale. It's a land swap. I've agreed to sell a swap with them something I have in Thompson for what they have here. Okay. Okay. So, it's really there's no money being exchanged. It's just it's a but I wanted to pursue this before I committed to to swapping.

Gotcha. To make sure I wasn't going to have a huge hurdle. And if for whatever reason the land swap doesn't happen, he's okay with you still using the property. Um, yes. Okay. I would. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I don't want to get well trying not to get too ind depth in that, but we have an agreement and um they have something

I have something they would like or they need and I have I didn't want to sell it but I for the for the reason I said if you have something that I can use to pursue this business and that's when we came up with this idea. So

Gotcha. So the best case is the swap happens. Yes. And if it doesn't happen, you kind of stay. Uh it then I guess if it doesn't happen, then that means I wasn't the site's not suitable for what I want to do. Okay. So this is the way I would word that.

Okay. checklist. Can I just ask one more question? Um Absolutely. Mark Censey, what role did he play? He's a soils uh evaluator and one of my um main concerns and one of DP's main concerns is adequate drainage soil um for this type of a business. You can't collect wood chips, wood grindings, or compost just anywhere. They they they don't want heavy soils like clay. They don't want things that are real fine sand that's going to drain out too fast. Yeah.

So, they're looking and they want to make sure that the water table is adequate. You got to have at least 24 in separation between the water table and your surface. Um, with the eval site evaluations, I asked him to help me with the permitting process. He's he does permits for uh stream crossings and other things as well. So, I asked him knowing I needed the soils guy. He kind of prepared and put this together for me. Gotcha.

Um, and we dug we dug six test holes and all of them were in excess of 48 in really. Um, actually we didn't hit any we just dug four four to 5 ft and we hadn't hit any water table at all. So um we rather than keep digging till we found water just it was more than twice what we needed um to satisfy.

So is Mark is Mark Sensei certified beyond his um state septic system certification. Soil. Yeah, he does soil. Yes, he does site evaluation for septic systems, right? But he also he's a soil scientist, so he does more than just septic systems.

Certified geologist. Certified. Yeah. Okay. You have to ask him for exact certifications. But you said you dug four. We dug six tests. They um I think they're on the Are they on the bigger map? They were marked. Oh, you have We have a bigger map.

We do. We have bigger mats. Yes. Yeah, I know. I think these two are the same. And then this one could just I can show you. Yeah, we uh this actually this site was uh pre previously the uh paving plant was in there. Approximate location. So all within.

All right. Thank you. you know, that I might be for the DP part of it that he was doing. So, is he helping you with the D application? Yeah, he's going to Yeah, he's going to pursue that for me. What's currently on the site? It is a leveled area in which the uh Durham Paving Company had set up in there and they also used it for a stockyard for crush stone, sand piles, uh different aggregate products. Um

it was a gravel pit at one time. Is there a conditional use? I don't know of anything for that particular site. Okay. Is on the right side of the left? It's on the left. It's opposite of the scale shack. the one the ramp that goes down.

I thought that's what it looked like on clicking place right in B. I don't I don't recall doing paving of it doing anything over there. Yeah, they had actually tilt had come and set up for one or two summers and um they did a massive amount of uh

paving out of that site for a couple of years and then um the crookers bought them out I believe. Any checklist? All right, you're going to record. I will. Yes. What's that? Okay. Uh, a fully executed and signed copy of the application for conditional use.

We've got that on a site plan with date, scale, and point north drawn at a scale sufficient to view of the items listed under the approval criteria, but at not more than 100 ft to the inch scale for that portion of the total tract of land being proposed for development. When practical, a standard size sheet 24 by 36 shall be used for all plans. We've got some maps.

I don't know for it seems like we might a more developed plan might be helpful here, but I don't know. Maybe I'll Yeah, something showing contours. Yeah, if you if you were familiar with the the site, it's pretty it's already been leveled. Um, and we're basically just taking off what vegetation is regrown.

Yeah. And we need to do a two to four pitch. It's really pretty straightforward, pretty simple. Um, there's very few trees being cut. There's very there's a few alders, there's a few, you know, bushes, but it was a it was a leveled area. Um, it's one of the reasons it attracted me. I didn't have to do a lot of infrastructure. Um, the sand base was there. The, uh, the clearing had been done. The, uh, entrances already established. Uh, it's actually got some paving on it going down in. So, um, there won't be a lot of pre or post pre- post construction. Um, I think we need to for the D purposes. Uh, the biggest thing is they want to see a 6-in gravel um, uh, impervious surface. They haven't asked for a site plan, but they asked for more.

They they'll their process will probably be a lot more They're going to be more stringent than what we're doing here today. They won't look at the application until I've um got the approval from the panel. Got it. Okay. What's the line that's drawn around the line? Those are the trees.

I believe that's the This is existing trees. So, this area here is what's now that's already Yeah. cleared. And this the other part is all just scrubby bushes was cleared at one once upon a time. This it was cleared from here all the way back.

So this is just kind of grown in. Yeah. A little bit of growth. There's a little bit of tree growth along the buffer by the road which is so to ask the same question. This is the cleared area in here. Right in. No, the other part is the if you

the trees are kind of going inward like Oh, I see. Just keep want to hold that. Yes, hold it up. That would be helpful. If you This part here is all brush. Okay. There might be I think the tallest thing in there is probably 20 feet small pines that have come back over time. And this area is all uh there's aggregate piles here that are left over. And the other area is all been cleared and used previously for the uh when Tilon and also for um aggregate piles. So basically if you look at it was

uh it's been cleared all the way if you look at the other map here back kind of within yeah within here and it kind of comes back around and then back up. Um, one of the excuse me, DP regulations is a maximum of three acres for stock filing of grindings or wood chips.

A maximum. Yeah, that's what you see the square. Yeah, maximum three without a getting another permit or another whole process. So, is it three or two? I thought it was three acre. It's three acres for the D for a storm water permit. No, for the for the grindings for the stockpiling, anything larger than that, you have to go different process.

Right. Okay. So, if you take like um Jolly Gardener over in New Lost, I mean, they got like 50 acres and they've got stock piles. I mean, everywhere. That's that's a much more um in-depth than what we're looking at doing.

Basically, that's kind of goes along with like most municipalities would have. they would come under the same uh permitting process for the town of Freo to I know takes in brush Brunswick does as well. So it kind of comes in under those that kind of criteria.

So the the dashed square Yep. that's the 3 acres correct and nothing 350 by 350 is roughly three is is approximately 3 acres and nothing's going to be done outside of that square. Stop. We can have whole tree stock piles like for the firewood business. You could stockpile that type of stuff outside of that. It's just the grindings. Any kind of wood chip or anything that's been once it's been ground up, that's when they have the uh the issue with the water table and they want to make sure that all of that is contained in that. And they want to make sure there's an access road, you know, that it's gravel in enough that your wind rows are set up that they can drive between them in case there's um, you know, so you proper drainage and and access to get in and out in case you need to.

So, are you going to be clearing more of the vegetation within that within that square? Yes. And then you've got looks like over here you've got tree length wood pile. So you'll be clearing that to Yeah, that's pretty well

on the driveway side of the three acres. Yeah, that would be on the outside of that. Yes. Yeah. And then over here for the wood processing area as well for the firewood for that's where the firewood the machine would go. We have a firewood processor

and um and that would be cleared as well. that's already cleared that area if you're looking at okay this this area here I mean anything that's so the the grinding the the area for the grindings is restricted to three acres any kind of stock piles of treelength wood um if you were to make bark mulch and you had 200 cords of tree length pine pulp they could be outside of that three acres once they're ground they have to be on that pad site by the D's rules

by by Yes. So, I guess part of the problem that I'm wrestling with and why I have so many questions is you've got you've got you're showing us your three acres, which is great and that's a good start, but we're um the application we're looking at has to consider the entire

um business, right? And so, we don't have any line showing us sort of the length of your wood processing area and the setbacks to that. you we've got a little bit of a dash line to your the one on the other side, but no setbacks to that. Um,

so and I understand why you focus on that 3 acre area because that's where we have to fit for D, but we have to look at the whole business and the whole area that you're doing it with and meet our setbacks on all of that and and things like that.

Yeah. This line here, this 100 foot. Yeah. But there's nothing to this abuing property over here. There's no delineation of this the area for this. There's no measure over there. Yeah. 150 ft to the next driveway. Yeah. I think you're Is it 100 foot setback for business? So, we're clearly well beyond 100 foot. And I think that's probably why I didn't

I mean the firewood processor literally is 20 20 feet long 25 ft long. Yeah. I think that I think that your map here if you would show this to Ann shows the additional the property line and it's missing on hers. See the the black line passing. Sure.

Uh these the same dad that doesn't you're talking about that whole piece the whole parcel is 39 but we're not developing the whole 39 but you will own the whole yes I'll own the whole piece I'm sorry for the wood crossing area and it doesn't show any setbacks there.

That's got to be 600 700 ft. Yeah. This is where that wood processing piece is going. Right. Right. Right. I mean, I can draw to draw 75 ft from that 350T mark over. We're still we're still going to be 400 ft from the property line.

Yeah. The one that's missing is the 100 the 100 ft from the property line from this line. But yeah, I mean it's it's obvious you're more than that, but it's still how much more is it's a bit of an important. I I don't think that's on the scale.

So it is to scale. Yes, this this is done to scale. Max sensei drew this under row. This is Oh, so he did actually put it that scale is accurate. One inch is 100 ft. Okay. Yeah. So it's 450 ft from your your yard. So it's got to be at least 300.

Sorry. Yeah, I think that's that's definitely pretty. So you'll have to have at least 300 you'll you'll have at least 300 ft on that right side, right? Correct. Mark delineate the stream on site? Yeah, I think he's addressed all of those. Uh,

shows it. Yeah, I see the stream on here. I'm just wondering, is that something that was from a topo or did he go out there and delineate sidewalks? He did. Okay. So, he didn't find any wetlands or anything like that. He didn't find any in the area that we're trying to snow.

Nothing. No, he del. Yeah. Found that. And that kind of wraps out and then drains back down towards the power lines. So, so the only access is the driveway entrance that you the current entrance. Yep. That's the only one you

Yeah, I really don't. Yeah, I I would prefer to have just one. I mean, it's double wide design for trucks coming and going. Um, second access point will just create more issues. so on 4B still four. We haven't made it that far.

Okay. Something four. I just made it to the number four. What about all the abuing property owners? We haven't gotten there yet. Okay. here for number four is that there's a site plan with a date scale and a north point drawn,

which we have. So there's there's one thing that you didn't get to me and that was the receipts from the certified letters. Did are these all signed? Do you have the signature page for the a butters? Were they not? I guess I was misinformed. I thought I gave you the list.

Okay. I brought that back and um I don't notice a Butters. Chtown does it different. Well, but the sheet that I the sheet that I gave you is I I mis I misunderstood that. So that's going to be a problem. All right. Yeah. So, we can't even hear that.

So, tonight is not going to work. It's going to have to move to next month. I I misunderstood that. I'm sorry. You asked me about getting the list back to you. I didn't realize you could receive. Well, that's what I meant by the list. I was the that that was either signed where they had signed it andor receipts from certified letters for those that you couldn't get to to sign a signature

that included the letter that I do it differently, but Okay. Okay. I was I I I would have said something earlier. I just thought you had them and we're bringing them tonight. So I I misunderstood that because I I'm used to dealing I've dealt with Thompson in the past and they

they made sure on the certified letting go the motion. Well, just going forward, do we want to see anything else in here? We need more detail. Do we want to ask him for next meeting to bring in maybe more detail? I think without a Butters I think it would be a mistake.

Yeah, it is. Okay. I just the the comment I would make and maybe Mark can help you. You may have all the pieces but we require everything on the plan. So I think you've got all the pieces just put them all in one place. Okay.

That'll make me happy next on on one map. Yeah. One of because one of the challenges we're dealing with multiple maps and trying to piece together exactly what you were doing. So the whole picture everything that's on you know Mark's list

Yeah. needs to go on one actually everything that's in the application checklist. Okay. All that just put it in one place. Drainage one. One map. Okay. until next month. I'll second it. Um, is not here. Oh, so I'm not a voting member. I just change it.

No, we have five members. We have a five. She still could be the change. She can still be the alter because John's not here. No, there's all right. We have a five member board. Yeah. There's no there's no Indian and I we're both an alter. So we we understand this, right? Okay.

All next. And I'm going to make a motion to table this until next month. Pending notification of a better. I'll second it. All those in favor. Sorry, Chip. Merry Christmas. Can I have two of these? You want to use yours? Yours?

No. No. Another one. Maybe it was John's. Careful. dinner. Yeah, I know. So, we're all done with the ordinance part tonight. Yeah. Who was actually at the meeting? Wait, are we meeting Did you get a list to We're just at I will make a motion to adjurnn.

Well, are we all done with our I don't know. Are we done? Yeah, we might as well been second. Okay. All those in favor?