TranscriptSelect Board Meeting ~ January 26, 2017

action or session. A town meeting or just a selectman meeting? This selectman. is this for correspondence or is this to add to the agenda? Uh, which one is that? That's a or for the budget? It's about the historic district.

Yeah. I think we need to discuss whether society we need to discuss. I I don't really have much of a direction as to what to do regarding where we where do we go? I don't know where to go with I would say this would be a budget one because for them to be able to spend anything, it has to be

that must be approved. One of them might be Josh. No. I guess. No. No. I'd say by the what's that? Let her know. That'd be my guess. You have a spare agenda. [clears throat] Spare agenda right here. No, I gave you two. thank you. like to call this meeting to order. We do have a quorum. Four out of five selectmen are here this evening. Could we please rise for the pledge of allegiance?

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. one. We'll call with 7E and a letter from selectman Libby.

evening? This gentleman back here. If you could come up to the uh Sure. Yeah. Thank you. I saw one of your pens. That's okay. And I uh give them one of these that they know what you're talking about. Um my name is Bill DS. I live uh over on Evergreen Lake. I was dealing with Pearl about um renting the Eureka Center for my son's 7th birthday on March 18th. And she sent us all the paperwork. And going through it, I noticed there was a a caveat in there that said no animals. Part of my son's birthday party is a education um educational animal presentation by um

Wildlife Encounters. It's a uh very wellrespected, very well-known company out of Rochester, New Hampshire. Um, I emailed their website and a copy of their the rider that I showed you to the administrator's email if you wanted to look at that. Um, it's no, it's not like

somebody's coming with their pet tiger. Um, you know, the um a a sample of the u animals that my son would like to have. Um they have you have two choices that they keep away from everybody, you know. Um and one would be an arctic fox

and a koa mundai. His backup is a walabe, which is like a small of course. I'd want to have one of them in mind. Absolutely. You have one for your birthday. And then uh his the theme of his the theme of his party is Angry Birds. So, for the b for the animals that you can interact with, um he wanted the mini pig, um a cockatu, a laughing cuckaburo,

and uh a sugar glider and a mini pig. But the website has, you know, all those animals and uh we've seen their show in New Hampshire and like I say, very well controlled, very professional. Um, but I wanted to go through the proper channels to see if that's possible to do.

Did uh did uh anybody from the Eureka committee have any have any objection? No. She said she said to me it'd probably be okay, but I'll put it on the docket for Tuesday. And I came in to get garbage stickers today and I asked about Tuesday and they said, "Well, they're meeting tonight." So, she checked the docket and she said there was nothing on there. So, she suggested I come in and speak to you on myself.

You have a good time. Far as I'm concerned, I'd move that we uh wave the no animal for this round. Second, Pat. Any discussion? I' I'd say as long as they're controlled like you said they are. Yeah. Nobody's going to get hurt then.

And like insurance anyways, right? Yeah. I I I I emailed to the administrator website their full website and a copy of the uh contract with the their insurance writer PDF in it to the administrator's website. So if you wanted to look at that.

No problem. S. Okay. All in favor. Motion carries. Thank you very much. Just happy birthday to your son. Yeah. I know [clears throat] you might want to make sure they know where which it is. They've got Durham, New Hampshire as the address on this.

Yeah. I I'm still dealing with them. Okay. [laughter] I I just hoping so they show up. They kind of hit a a stop when I read the thing. So now we're going to finalize everything. Okay. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. Um, any more public comment this evening? Consent agenda.

I move we accept the consent agenda as presented. Second. All in favor? Motion carries. Uh, animal control officer report. I had a bunch of copies my wife made up. So, I think there's This is my thing here. And these are

Well, thank you. And this is the three four Thank you. And these are two more of all the incidences. Yep. Um you've been waiting. but enough. We can make copies if anybody wants an extra copy. Yeah. Um I do want to say something to this letter about my arm. It's not a problem. And it didn't stop me from doing any of my work. The day I had it operated on, it did. 4 days later, I was still out there doing stuff. So, it might have slowed me down for three or four days, but it didn't stop me from doing my job. Just for the record,

to have like a carbon copy made up so I can put like every couple of weeks or maybe once a month. They'll have date, mileage, and the call received, when and where, whatever. All of my descriptions in there so that I have a copy of it, and then I can get a copy or mail it to you once a month. So, we're not trying to say that I'm not being in contact enough with you or whatever. Um, the other thing is all my reports that I gave last year, none of that came up on the website or did it get printed in the book and stuff? What reports that you gave?

All my reports that I gave from last last December. Do we do we have the town? My first year the first year. So it' be like three quarters of 2016 the 20 started the summer in 2015. Right. So that that summer that fall right to December. None of that report came up anywhere on the website or or in your books or not. So that wouldn't

Well, that wouldn't be on the website. It would it would it would be but through the uh clicking on the town report, right? Yeah. My wife says like well I mean you made a big issue here that you needed all my reports and we couldn't find any of my reports. So it's like, well, if I'm making up these reports and you're saying that I'm not staying in contact with you and giving you all the reports and we couldn't find any of those reports that we put up. So we were like, why do I have to make the reports out and give you this paperwork if you don't do anything with it and I've requested a couple things put up on the your website about the rabies and stuff and the incidences I happen to have with the rabies and stuff and none of that showed up either. So, my communication with you, Ruth, hasn't been the greatest, and yours hasn't been the greatest with me either. So, we need to work on that, I'm sure.

We do need to work on that, right? So, but the the the reports aren't for us to post on the web. The reports are Well, they go in the book or or wherever they are, I guess. So, I mean, we she got that report and we didn't find nothing. So, we were just questioning why it wasn't there or why we couldn't find it. And it's like, well, if it's if you do need them reports and you want to print all of that on there, I mean, you'll have to go through that and say, well, there's there's so many dogs at large. There's a ton of dogs at large,

right? And and that's I think I've caught one out of 60 of them. And it's like I did get the cat, by the way, just so you know. Yeah. And I've been there twice to get the cat. And I called the guy back and I didn't hear from him for like two weeks or three weeks. And the first numbers he gave me was the wrong cell phone number. And he called me back, but it was like three weeks later. And I'm like, well, is this the same guy or is it another cat? And it's like, well, if you you put food out there and you put a bed out there and build a motel for cats, they're going to come. So, leave the thing alone. He'll go back home. But so, I went over trying to find it. And evidently, you found it cuz it won't come near me. I never saw it. And it wouldn't go near him. And it's like, well, I get these calls that

the guys are telling me, "Well, the dog's in the road running. and he just went into the woods and I can't get near him and he can't be caught. But we'd like you to come and get it because if he gets hit, it's your fault. Why is it my fault when somebody let the dog go? It's not my fault, you know. So, I get them calls at 2:00 in the morning or midnight and the guy's drunk and it's like, well, do I really want to answer that phone call? He doesn't want to meet me. Not at that time of the night. You know, my attitude stops at midnight. Anything before that, it's fine. After that, it's not good. Pat, I think the easiest thing to do on your mileage, I think we we we've been discussing it, is instead of trying to do the paper trail with you, cuz you're more of a hands-on kind of man, is take your mileage a lotment that we have

and add it into your in your salary. I mean, I my mileage can go right because you never or it can be you never gave us no paperwork for any mileage all year, so it's kind of hard to pay you for that, but [clears throat] it'd be easier just to add it to your salary and right the

Yeah. I don't know what I had for mileage last year, but I I know what it's you know, right? It has to be probably 1,200 in that ballpark a year on mileage. So, [snorts] and you know, it could be less, it could be more. good.

You know, I haven't had to do my other issues is like like the court thing. You know, if I if I got to do a court thing and put cases together, you know, I I I go out and I get some evidence, but I have to I can't go to the district attorney and say, "Look, this dog's running last." Well, what proof do you got if that person decides to fight it? Nine times out of 10, they see the charge and it's a $50 fine, and they just plead guilty to it and they pay it and it doesn't go to the district attorney. doesn't go to the the judge. And the judge is like, I'm not going to put this ca case into court with uh all

kinds of juries and stuff on a $50 fine. So, I got to have some good evidence to do that. And it's and a lot of these people here, it's like, well, I saw the dog, but I won't testify that I saw that dog or whatever. It's like, well, my hands are tied. I can't really do nothing. You know, it's like and I and I told you all when I first started that I'm I'm not going to go out there and start whacking people left and right. I want I want to meet the people and be kind and I I did more Kanye stuff and got away and got people to do stuff that have never registered the dogs. One is the Bailey boys. Any of you guys here? No. And I went there with guns. [laughter] It's like I was warned, watch out for these guys. Well, I got the kid. I got him on the phone and I talked to him and and and what he says, "Geez, you ain't a regular animal control officer." And I says, "No, I'm not." And I says, you know, and I just worked with him and

he went right down and registered the dog. He got it registered and I ain't had any problems with that. The woman that's had the goat that's been getting out of the pen for seven years when I started two years ago. Nobody could do anything with her. She's putting in a fence. I mean, she's an old lady and she's got all the fence post. She's got all the wiring. She's she's attempting to do it. So, I'm letting her do it. I'm not writing her a ticket cuz she's working with me on it. She gave me her cell phone which Jeff Cooper couldn't get near her. Couldn't get near her, get a phone out of her. Now she's calling me and I go by and I try to help her and say do this and do this and I I've caught the goat a couple of times and she's not around and put it back in the pen because the neighbors next door and it's over there eating their plants and stuff and I understand that and she's starting to understand that. So she's

coming around which is kind of I was surprised I got that file with her. Goat her now, aren't we? Huh? Yeah. Oh, yeah. I was pig wrestling there about 3 weeks ago. Actually, it was just just before my operation. I I tore the bicep right off the boat and I went to California the next morning. I drove around there for 3 weeks and then came back that month of September and I had to go wrestle two 70 lb pigs and they were on the border of Brunswick and Durham. So, I didn't and it was on the Leighton road. So, we don't know where they came from, but it wound up by the by the Brunswick dump and labbies there. And we had to, you know, I couldn't get a rope on him. I couldn't get near him. And I'm like, well, he gets close enough. This 250lb man's going on top of him. I know I outweigh him. Well, that's what I did. I bailed right on top of him and before he could take another step, I grabbed his front legs and I pulled him

in backwards and drove his Any video with this or what? I'm missing all this video. You call? They were right there watching the whole thing. [laughter] I'm going to have your own get you have a channel. And I had a no probably a 300 lb 7 foot man with me, Ryan Whitmore. He's an offshore lobsterman. He's like, we ain't going to catch them. I says, I know. We're trying ropes and lassos and you know the fishing thing we do and our fancy knots and stuff and it weren't working. So I said, well, we're going to we're going to use the old pogue method and I bailed right on top of them and I caught him. Once we caught the first one and got the rope around them, the other one came right over and we stuffed them both into that crate, that dog crate.

Well, I'm happy to I'm happy you got us a report and I really am. I'm glad to see this and uh thank you and pictures. It's it's it's hard for me to get pictures. I mean, I I actually um this this here Aaron Bailey might have some of those with us with the pig. This here would be we were asking for like a quarter quarterly report or something. Something like this would be perfect.

Yeah, I got I got to do something like every two weeks or every once a month just put it all down and get it to you and then I don't have to think about that a year later. And then my wife does all this typing and I and I explain stuff to her and she puts she takes my blank words, every other word, and puts it into words that you guys won't be offended by. [laughter] And um so she does all that. I I I can't do that. I don't even know how to turn a computer on. I can barely run the cell phone, you know. I don't text much. And

you know, I'd rather jump on that pig than write a letter. That's what we want you for. I want you to do that. Well, that's I don't mind doing that. You know, and it's like, you know, there's there there are some things that are just very stupid calls. And it's like, you know, this this job is a lot more to it than I thought. And I'm you guys I don't know if you know how much is involved with this you know as far as the the legal stuff of it and I've been working with Brunswick acco um Harriswell uh Lisbon Falls and you know just to get a feel with them and do a ride along and stuff like that and how they approach it. I've done a lot I covered Brunswick a lot but they they sent me an escort every time. So any call that I went on, I had a I had a Brunswick officer with me and when it came to the paperwork and the charges, I would figure out what the charges were and you know, write him up for this and he he wrote out the

summones and he dealt with the district attorney and he he dealt with the chief of the police and stuff, which I I didn't have to do that. But when they quarantined an animal, you know, the the fencing, the proper laws, about that stuff, I took care of that part of it for them. So when they give me a call, you know, they would dispatch through the PD and [snorts] the dispatch would call me and then I would go to the the incident or the whatever was going on and then when I was done with it, I had to call them back, let them know that I was done so they didn't think something happened to me, that coverage, which is kind of nice having that on your back. When I come out in Durham, I'm by myself and I'm alone and I've had three times where I got nervous. I got [snorts] really nervous. I didn't know if I was going to get jumped and, you know, attacked by dogs. You know, a couple of pitbulls come at me and I was like, so

it was like, and nobody knows I'm there. So, it's like, I don't know how I can get around that as far as, you know, these touchy situations. You know, there's probably no way of telling if that's one of those situations ahead of

you. You just don't know until you go. But, you know, I've had, you know, I've had, uh, only one, well, the two Pitbull ones, the guy gave me a fair warning. He said, "Momm dogs will tear you apart." And I'm like, "Okay, click." You know, on the holster, two in the truck, and I went, so I knew what was happening. And the other ones were, well, the these gentlemen, they don't like law enforcement officers. They don't get along well. all the

and I went there bare-handed and I knew one of them and it and it turned out really good. So I you know with one of the one of those gentlemans and I still there's another incident there that I still have to go over and meet with the other side of the family and you know that I don't know how that's going to go but it's going to be you know I'm not going to push them and I'm not going to threaten them. I'm not going to say you know you're going to get fined or this or that. It's like I what can you do to help me so I don't have to come back here? you know, it's simple. It's in your court, right? You know, what what you do, what you choose to do

is, you know, it's either bad or good, you know, and I and I leave I leave that with everybody I go see, right? You know, on everything, you know, on any little charge, you know, and it's like I'll leave the judgment up to you what you should do. Uh,

yeah. And it's kind of the pig jumping, right? you don't really you don't you don't know what you know it's like what do I do at this time and sometimes you have to think about it or I don't know there's one thing you have here is the coverage for you when you're if you're out or absent sick or whatever is there anything we can reach out to the

other ACOs yeah ACOs around us and maybe might be able to help cover for you if you're out I mean can we write them somebody from panel yes the month of September [clears throat] so it seems right that's an option y um I think Jeff Cooper's out cuz he's doing Battis and Lisbon Falls.

Well, power to you if you can do three towns, but I don't see it happening. I don't see him responding as much as you would want somebody to respond to that as coverage. Yeah. I'm just thinking there maybe we can send letters out to surrounding towns, maybe find some people who might want to back.

I covered for Heidi. Heidi lives here in this town now. Is she? So, she's Brunswick, right? Yeah, she's Would she cover me? Well, she might return the favor. So I I called I mean she said no. You did call. Yeah. Okay. So next time she calls me I say no. [clears throat and laughter]

She never called me. I'll tell you about that incident. It's like for that June, July, and August that summer. Yeah. I was about as green as that tree out there. And uh she's she asked me about it if I'd be willing to cover her, you know, in a couple of months. And I'm like, "Yeah, okay." Next thing you know, my phone's going off the rocket panel and it's the dispatch. They want me to go on these calls and I'm like, well, we haven't set anything in stone. Didn't know exactly when I was going to start, what I was going to get paid, what, you know, what what are we going to cover here? And next thing I know, I'm on the acco. And so it's [snorts] like she just kind of dumped it in my lap and here you go. And I didn't, you know, I didn't know what to do. I the basketball's going around the court, but everything I had to do with was with a police officer. So, a lot of the police officers had these cases and I would

help them and then they would write summons and stuff and they don't give you any breaks. I mean, your your your dog off that leash, they'll write you a ticket. Yeah. You know, it's [snorts] like, well, it's a bigger town and there's more risk involved with that and more liability. I guess

we don't know. I don't even know. We don't know what kind of hours what we have rotating state, but rather have all hours of the day. Yeah. I don't know. Freeport has an acco, I would presume. I mean, I get calls from freeport. Everyone

and um panel, there was people in panel calling me about, well, you're the Durham acco, which you cover panel. And I'm like, I don't I don't think so. I didn't know, you know, and it's like, well, you know, call Panel or your town office or to see what they have because I I don't, as far as I know, I'm not supposed to cover it. No, no,

nobody here had told me I was supposed to. So, I'm not going. Right. So, I mean, I you know, Jeff Cooper, he calls, he needs a hand or assistance. I'm more than willing to go because he helped me that day with the dog on the ice down the river, which I couldn't get inland fisheries and wildlife. And I couldn't get any state police or Anisa Sheriff to show up so that I could peril 30 feet down over that cliff down onto the ice onto the shore to see what was going on, why this dog hung out there for what, two weeks, three weeks? And it's like, well, did somebody walking by with their dog and slip and fall and the dog's hanging out there? Cuz that person's down over that shore. Well, I had to go look and I ain't doing it alone. So Jeff came and is more than happy to work with me and help me with stuff and tied a rope around my neck and I jumped. It

wasn't around your neck. [laughter] I felt it there. Well, sounds like some a little bit of He couldn't pull me up. He was just there with a cell phone. [laughter] And we we finally um I did manage to get uh Dan Deo and uh Paul the his assistant

for uh their clam wardens for Brunswick and they have an airboat. So if I need them for a river thing or whatever for somebody in the river or whatever, they they're right there and I got them right on speed dial and they'll have that airboat if to my assistance if I needed it. They would have that day there.

[clears throat] So I'm like, "Well, thank you for that." So they offered and they got no problem going in one town or the other, you know, if it's to save somebody's life or whatever, you know, or or to back me up to help me. So which I thought was good

for cover sometime. I don't I don't know who's cover you guys are going to cover it because if they they've got a bill for me, you take care of that. Um for now on just if you have any major problems, please show up at our meeting and uh and find out what it is or and and give us your report at least quarterly if you could or monthly be great. I just we talked about the money you and I have. I mean, it's just

I don't feel it's enough, you know, join a join a club that everybody else, right? So, including me, you know, it's like I don't know how I what do I do to go up and you know, I pick a number and then you guys decide or whatever or something like that or or is is there any room for that? I mean, if there isn't much room for it, I don't know how much I'm going to hang on to that. So you you pick a number, you present it to us and then we hash it over and then ultimately the town makes a decision,

right? My wife's got the numbers and I'm like which her numbers are pretty low and I'm like come on get up here with me but you got to get that to Ruth because she needs to put it in the budget. It needs to go in front of the time.

When is when is this budget thing? What is like going on right now? There's a copy of what I have so far. So any what the budget is? Yep. any changes that you want to this gives the times and stuff when the budget is closed or

well finish it next week and then it'll go before the budget committee. Oh, okay. So, I say you can get something with you and your wife together and get it in by Tuesday of next week. Next week. It probably help us quite a bit.

Okay. Monday would be better. Monday would be good. I was giving you an extra day. She's not Friday. You close Wednesday still. Yep. Yep. Next Monday. Yeah, I'll give that some thought to as to what we do there, but you know,

but thank you. It it is it is a lot to this job. I mean, it's it's you know, I didn't know. I mean, I and I told you that I said, I don't know what it's going to take. I mean, 50 bucks. Sure. Yeah. Well, about a week of that. It was like, well, that wasn't quite right.

You know, it's like I don't we didn't know. I mean, I mean, have any of you seen anything about the courses for ACCO or anything? Yep. I looked them up. you know what that whole course was, that four days and the training and then what's involved with it. I mean, I know there's a lot of paperwork they tell you this is the job at the ACL. Well, I'll tell you what, you can double that page and just keep adding some more to it. I that's what I found.

One of the questions that came up when we just last week when we started looking at these budget numbers is that um we had budgeted money in last year because you're required to do a certain number of continuing ed credits.

Yep. And I don't have any idea if you did. I don't know what I don't know. I was going to say I don't know if you did them or not, but if you do let us know so that you can get reimbured for that, right? I haven't I haven't done that, but I've been in contact with uh Liam, the guy that does the acco training course for ACO officers, and uh he was fine with it because a lot of stuff they showed there, you know, I I already knew all that stuff, you know, like the whole farm thing with handling animals and stuff like that and tying them, you know, make a noose out of this or that. It's like, "Yeah, I know how to hang them." So, it's like to get them lashed down. So, a lot of that stuff. And he was fine with it. But that course is a 4-day course and you can go in on it any one of those four days from what I understood

and it's $50 for the four C for the four days. So, like a one day thing there might be 10 bucks. So, it's it's Oh, no. All I'm saying is do stuff or if you see something that you want to go to, let us know. Yeah. And I said it could be anything, you know. It can be anything that would help me in my job. So, I mean, yeah, I got to find something that, you know, just, you know, it's been almost two years now, so I got to jump on something here,

you know, before springtime or something like that, you know, just an 8 hour course. And then I'm sure they'll give me a certificate, which I can give to you guys. Um, I don't know who actually really needs it. I don't know if it's you guys that need or is it is it Liam that needs it and I got in uh

in Augusta cuz they're the one that tell me you're either an officer or you ain't an officer. Do they need a copy? get the certificate from them. So, and he's he's been fine letting me kind of run. So, it's like, okay. So,

I just only thing I think we need is copy just have on file ass, right? Yeah. Um I'll get I'll get something in the works. I I was thinking first aid because I took that years ago about CPR and there's some stuff that with CPR now. It's not what I learned, you know,

completely different. The 152 thing is not No, it's a kick in the ass and a couple punches and you're ready to go. [laughter] H I didn't like my definition. Hey, don't bring any more dogs. [laughter] Well, thank you for coming in. Thank you. Get that get that to Ruth.

We'll put some number I'll put a number down on paper. We'll bring it in. I'll get it to Ruth. Okay. We'll kick it around. We'll see what we can do with it. We'll kick it around. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Thank you, Pat. Thank you.

You got any questions? Any more? No. I have none. All right. Cal Ripken League. Thank you. Thank you. Hey Pat, before you run away, I'm gonna I want to Like any pigs have you wrestled? My kind of guy. I like it. I know. Straightforward. Ain't no misunderstanding.

Yeah. I was just happy they weren't our pigs that were out. I always like I love it. [cough] Very very well. Good job. So floors is yours. Um so we um were looking over our lease with the town and one of the stipulations with our lease was when we getting ready to build the fields we needed to present um our thoughts to the select board get approval on that. Um it's a 10acre lot. Uh there's that up in the top left corner there. There's a the uh environmental scientist wanted to call it a vernal pool. It actually did not meet the definition of one. Um but it's a wet area that the Army Corps is forcing us to stay out of. So, you know, we've lost a third of it. Um ideally what we're trying to do, um you can see we've got the four fields on there. We're looking for two fullsize um Cal Ripken fields and then we've got two smaller fields that we can use for T-ball. Um right now our, you know, our our league

numbers vary up and down. We've been averaging about four T-ball teams a year. a couple rookies teams and then a minors and majors. Um, so really the the two big fields is definitely a minimum and the two little ones is really where we need to be. Uh, since they built the new school or since they started construction on that, our T-ball teams have actually been playing up at Shiloh. I'm using the fields there just because we don't have the field space anywhere else in town anymore. Um, so really this

is, you know, what we're, you know, it's a lot packed into a little bit of area for what, you know, obviously we'd like to spread out, but with the wetlands that are out there, you know, we're right up against the limit on what we can do with any more wetland impacts. Um, we've tried to provide we've tried to make our entrances so they're not directly across from anybody's house. Uh, hopefully minimize that issue. We've got enough parking for it's basically a car per per um player.

There's pretty good amount of parking there. That's what were we right about right around 100 parking spots I think. Um I don't know if you've it was uh you know it was initially cleared quite a few years back and we actually fell into a pretty good deal with sappy paper went through and uh took care of the rest of the clearing for us this this uh fall. um

and all that money you got from the clearing and where that go. You guys got a fund, I guess. The uh what we got from Sappy, what was left when they did the clearing this fall was just all junk kind of pulp stuff. They just they cleared it, didn't charge us anything. We didn't get anything for it.

The initial clearing that happened a few years ago. Um I think we we netted probably 10 $12,000. We've been holding on to that for when we get to this point. Um, what's your timeline for this project? As soon as possible. Really, the uh the viability of the league is really kind of hinging on this. It's kind of a catch22 that were put into though. Um, we're we've been talking to a couple contractors. The we got a rough price here this week.

Uh, they were estimating that'd be about $320,000 to put this in. Obviously, we don't have $320,000. Um, there are a lot of grant programs and stuff like that out there, but as you guys know, we've had the property for like 10 years now, and you know, we're it's slow getting it moving. So, we're kind of in a uh catch 22 where we really can't apply for grants till we're really going for it and we can't really, you know, it's kind of hard to get some of the approvals done ahead of time before you can get the money up front. Um, so I think we're, you know, the goal is at a minimum to start getting some of this going hopefully by summer. Um, hopefully work on some of these grants during the spring. Uh, my understanding is from here we would need to also go to the planning board, present to them. U, we also need to get the permitting and once we have the permitting in place is when we can really start getting the grants

going. Um, so we wanted to make sure we presented to you guys in time so we can start getting that other stuff going. Who who's who's going to fund all this? It will be um Durham Youth Baseball will be doing the fundraising and working on grants. I know MLB actually has a grant. Uh some of these other places um we've have heard there's some interest from contractors for donating materials or or

I'm asking that because you know the town's people are going to want to know paying that. It will not be the town of Durham paying that. You know, well, as soon as you said 320,000, I was like, "Oh, not going in this budget."

No, it's not. So, and that's not the intent. The intent is that we will be getting money elsewhere. Is this just a summer league? It It's a spring league. Spring league. So, you don't have access to the school fields at all?

It is dicey at best to be honest. So, um, what we run into with the there's the one softball field and then the baseball field. And what we're finding to be very problematic for our league [cough and clears throat] is that all our stuff has to go through the RSU, which is not the easiest organization to deal with by any means.

No, we don't pay them enough money. No, it's not. I mean, e even for us to hold the clinic in the town of Durham gym, we have to hire a custodian because we are not part of the school. And if we have a three-hour clinic, we have to pay. It's like $40 an hour for three hours just to hold the clinic in the gym.

That's okay. We do, too. When we have an election, we get a custodian bill. That's a little ridiculous, but No, it's a lot ridiculous. [laughter] No, it's a lot ridiculous. [laughter] be nice. [laughter] Um, you know, you weren't alone.

Yeah. So, um, with the school fields, um, what we found out, and I've been president for like a year and a half, [cough] what we found out is even for the middle school teams, if there's something going on with the high school and the high school team needs a field, high school team automatically can bump the middle school team no matter what's going on.

They don't have enough they don't have enough fields of free or or like last year, no one was allowed on any of the fields until like almost the beginning of May. It was like the first is either the last weekend in April.

How many fields they got down on? Yeah. Down the road. Yeah. I can't believe what road it's on. Hunter. Yeah. Home road. Yeah. They have like six, seven fields down there. Yeah. But um so the the school, you know, obviously the school teams have priority, which

would be nice. They can come up here and rip our field up. So this Yeah. Now, will this be dedicated to baseball fields? um or can other um Durham booster sports like the soccer teams and and what have you is is there any capacity for for using it other than just essentially April, May, and June?

Our to drive some additional revenue for you guys to help defay the cost, that kind of thing. Our lease does have that it can be used for other other uses that we feel are within the the meet the needs of the field. Uh with you know ideally we'd like to see fencing and stuff like that go up which makes it really tough to fit a soccer field or anything like that. So but definitely we would entertain if there's other uses you know softball league has been growing exponentially from what I understand.

You guys would be more user friendly. We would definitely be one of the more user friendly organizations around. Um, [snorts] it's just trying to trying to find the field space in Durham. What what we ran into is [snorts] so we've been using the the baseball field isn't really set up for, believe it or not, for our league. You know, that uses a full major league size diamond. So, we've been using the softball field. Well, if the girls have a game, so we we usually schedule the softball field for I think 6:30 and on uh [clears throat] five nights a week and then then Saturdays I think we've been using it if the girls game goes long and we're kind of kind of in trouble on that especially when you got other we play other towns. So when they come in to play and it's like, "Oh crap, we don't have a field." But if they have a schedule change, they they aren't even very good about contacting us. I mean, we do hear

eventually, but it just it is a challenge for us to schedule around for certain. So one one more last time for what Blake was Mr. Blake was saying. So the town of Durm is not going to be on the hook for any of this taxpayers. That's correct.

We just signed on a big field and it's not that the taxpayers would want to help. They could help if they want to come over and help donate, but for us to ask to have it put in the budget after I mean that I don't really want to get hung up the dry before I leave the office.

All right. So, what do you need from us tonight then? Um, I'm not exactly sure. This is tell what's going on. Yeah. And I guess they'll figure out what the process is when and it's kind of convenient that Todd's here in terms of what the planning board what we need to do for any of that and

because obvious think about that. I'm not sure what we really need to do. Well, I don't I don't think that uh I don't think there's anything I think it has to go through those guys anyways, but as far as No, I mean that you

as far if if your lease basically says you need to kind of get the blessing of the board or whatever. Yeah. I think that's what he's here for. Yeah. And I and I don't have any issues really with it, but I I mean as long as you know if you happen to have an adult softball league, guys or girls are mixed or whatever and they could use it when you aren't using it. That's my concern.

But that was my only question. I mean, if you're going to sync 320,000 plus the cost of maintenance and what have you. Yep. It would be nice if if you could figure out other groups that may contribute. So, and so that it's more than just three months of the year. It's a lot of money to

Yeah. and we've tried in the past few years doing summer clinics and stuff like that. So, we try to maintain some of [clears throat] that just keeping the kids involved. There's no actual buildings over here. Uh we are right in between the two big fields. We're planning on like a 24x 24 30x30 building that would contain a snack shack and storage.

Nuclear clinic say well that's more it's like where I like storage. Yeah. Storage, you know, holding the equipment, uniforms, all that stuff. and [snorts] but and then of course the RSU controls when you can get on the fields and when you can in terms of spring and whatnot and

got to love it. Must be figuring on some bats somewhere here. Uh we're figuring at this point just because of the the space that we have um just using portaotties. Okay. And actually the uh design of a septic system there was actually more problematic than you would think

just because it's all based on on number of people. Well, we have a high concentration for 3 months of the year and then you're not using it at all. So, the design of the septic system just doesn't really make sense there.

So, portaotty is definitely much easier for everyone. If it grows down the road, you could relook at that too. Yes, portaotty gets you they're fairly inexpensive for 3 months where you got to have even if you had to have two of them. So,

can't boat ramp noise there. So, something like that would work a little bit bigger though. [clears throat] Okay. Thank you. Yeah. Well, I'm also I'm object. Okay. So, I don't Those are your two guys you're going to have to deal with probably in the next. So,

Yep. You'll have to make appointments with them. You don't want this back? No, you can you can hold on to that if you want. Thank you. You want an extra copy for the planning board? [clears throat] You're welcome to. Speaking of planning board,

You like that? We like that. Is send a videographer around with a animal control officer [laughter] and make and make bank. Yeah. Start our start a Facebook start our own show. Durham Durham Animal Policy her YouTube channel. I don't think he's exaggerating any of it either.

No, no, I don't think he's Oh, no. I That's what it is. Is that's straight up. That's what you see. What you There you misunderstood anything he said tonight. You was sleeping. No, I understood everything. Love to see that video of the pig.

What do we got? Well, the planning board discussed at our last ordinance meeting the possibility of prohibiting retail marijuana establishments and social clubs in the town. We don't think that it will ever be. I know the state is got a moratorum until next February, but uh our town meeting is coming up in April, and [sighs] I think we'd better be better off to get ahead of it and just have a state uh townwide moratorum on establishments and social clubs.

We don't think it's in the character of town or Durham or it ever will be. Um, so rather than a moratorium, you're talking about a prohibition. Prohibition. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. You can I mean, MMA says we can. We can we can try, but I mean, if this depends on what the state ends up, the final enactment whether they whether they allow that, right?

Several towns have already done. [clears throat] It's like the fireworks ordinance, right? Well, it it all depends on what the fi what the final thing that comes out of the state whether they will allow you to have a full

right the original my understanding of the original draft as proposed in the referendum allowed towns to opt out essentially but whether or not that is the final language that comes out remains well remains to be seen and whether or not it's something that the town would approve

right this should go to the town voters right different yeah I mean that's what you're looking for us to do is to have make gets put on the warrant. Yeah. To vote. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We can vote on it. People don't feel we the my other main concern is uh we have no police force,

right? And something like this. It would be I would think problematic at some point. I don't want to talk about that too much. That's right. [laughter] Not right now. We'll video in. Damn it. Okay. So, we can discuss putting this on the warrant. Um, we'll need a public hearing ahead of time. Um, I Were there other ordinance changes that are coming up? So,

we're going to have a warrant. Uh, we're going to have a hearing, too. So, so we're going to need all the ordinance changes to get onto the warrant, too, at some point. Yeah. Yep. Yep. We'll have to have a hearing fairly soon. At our next planning board meeting, we'll probably

Okay. Uh, set up a meeting. Make sure we get it within whatever the time frame is. 10 days. I think 10. It's only 10. Yeah. Got it. Yep. Without the tri town now though, it's a little easier because you got to put it in the daily papers as opposed to,

you know, so it's just a day ahead or so. That's all I had. Okay. Awesome. All right. Thank you so much. are we going to do that one right now? I'm going to skip to three uh to E. All right. Thank you. Yeah. So, I have a letter here from Selectman Libby. Uh, it is with great regret that I write this email to inform you of my decision to step down from the board of selectmen. I've given the matter I've given the matter careful consideration and feel it's best for the town that I do this in time for someone to get elected for the last year of the term. While it may be too late for an interested party to take out and submit papers to get on the ballot, I myself was elected my first term as a writing candidate. Certainly an interested party would have time to get the word out that they are running. The decision is in large part due to commitments to my employer and my career. I have three major exams I need to pass this year.

The first needs to be done before March. This will take much of my time as there will be much studying involved and with a new child as well as other family considerations, it's going to be a challenge. And so and he closes up as I'm sorry to call it quits in the middle of the budget season. I do need to make studying a priority. I can be reached by cell phone if there are questions or any on any of the upgrades or if anything else of the network is needed. I do think we should address the other paragraph there uh

on taking a vote. Uh he's asking to be able to keep uh uh his email building security code and I assume keys so he can get in uh due to some ongoing projects with the network and stuff. So he does a lot of that it stuff.

I will actually make a motion that um he can uh keep those items and the security code and so on until such time as Ruth says yeah as they're done with all all that. So yep. Okay. So that was a motion. Second. Any discussion? All in favor? Motion carries. I also will make a motion. Um I'm not sure exactly that we because

we don't accept a resignation of a board of selectmen because it's it the board doesn't elect doesn't elect them and so on. But that we receive that we receive his resignation with regret. Second. All in favor? Motion carries.

um departments and committees under fire chief. He does he submitted a report but he has a request um that we accept a grant. Um I name the purchase price uh for pants forestry pants of $2540 and the grant would reimburse us for 50% of the purchase. The other um and he's asking that I be authorized through the grant match. So we would be authorizing $2540 from the grant match. Half of that would be in re reimbured after the purchase.

on that? I thought there was a motion. No, I was I was me I'm sorry. I was mentioning he's asking for us to approve, right? The grant request was for 10 portable radios and 20 pairs of forestry pants and the the forestry pants portion of the grant was approved.

are quite frankly. [laughter] I don't. So move. Second discussion. All in favor? Motion carries. Um co code enforcement. Do you have anything pressing for tonight? Uh there's a couple of things I'd like to cover. Okay. read it in your own time if you'd like. I'll give you a summary on it. [clears throat] First things first, I wanted to discuss with you guys is uh I was talking to the chief about this, the fire chief earlier in the week. Um, I I

wanted to request of you that um anybody who has a house fire in town where their house is destroyed and they need to reconstruct and want to reconstruct their house in town that we wave the fees for the building permits that are under town control. They'll still have to do the state plumbing permit. Um, but electrical permits and building permits we could wave the fee on. Uh, the inspections will still need to occur. They'll still need to have the permits. They just won't pay the fee. I think it'd be a good thing to do for folks that have suffered significant loss without having to try to reconstruct and wind up having to pay the fees on. So, if we could make that I'm I'm assuming in order to do that, you guys are going to have to vote on that request. But I think I would also like to include the house just up the corner here that burned a couple of weeks ago. They just pulled permits last week for that. I'd

like to reimburse the permit fee for that to be included in this exemption. that tonight or you want to talk about it. Um, the main flag pole down at the War Memorial Park has suffered some structural damage. It's going to need to get assessed in the spring to see if it needs to be taken down and reset. It's running at about a 3° list angle right now. If you go and shake the pole, the concrete and the ground moves with it. Um, so we'll have to get an assessment of that once the frost is out of the ground and get a look at it. My assumption is at least that pole is going to have to come down and be reset. And if that's the case, it might be worth taking both the tall ones down. I think you also we need to get an evaluation as to just exactly what size flag needs to hang on those. We had two flags on those and in that high wind storm it was more than that pole could take. Now I don't know if it was a

footing problem or exactly what it was. the one flag, the American flag was destroyed. Um, in that situation, the rope broke finally. Um, so we need to get an assessment of that. Do we know how deep that pole is? I have it in the file from when they did the work. It's down probably 2 and 1/2 ft.

Yeah, I think it's 2 and 1/2 ft in concrete and there's a base underneath that. I kind of questioned that when we got started because I didn't feel it was deep enough for frost protection, but Joe went with the um the recommendations by the pole manufacturer that had issued the installation instructions and they followed those instructions. So, I didn't require to go any deeper, but I think if they're going to be replaced, they need to go deeper and it shouldn't be a round support. It should be a rectangular support. Yeah, we should should pro I mean if that's their recommendations, but I would think anything like that. You want a minimum four feet. That's

Well, that was my assumptive. Yeah, that was my assumption. But the rectangular columns have a lot more lateral support than round columns. Sauna tubes. Part of the other problem with sauna tubes is if the cardboard's still on them in free thaw situations, they absorb a lot of water. They freeze. They move. They freeze. They move. Anybody seen a deck with sonnet tubes on it? the sauna tubes are all sitting at an angle or they start working themselves up out of the ground and it has to do with the ice grip and the cardboard for with the water in it as it freezes and moving them around. So, it's it's not it's not the best option in this particular case. Um it might have been fine, but that storm really did do that one in. So, I think it'd be good to get a look at that.

I can pull the um manufacturers for sure there too and find out on the flag size. I'm sure Justin still has that information. Okay. Workbook. Um, so the other thing that I've been doing, the one of the most interesting parts of what I've been doing lately is if you look on the third page of the stuff I gave you is a I got a Ruth had put together some housing information when the houses were that are on the tax roles were built in town to provided it to the historical district commission. And I started mining that data and it gets pretty interesting after 1970. Um, growth was growth's kind of funny in the town of Durham. We talked about it before. It seemed to have stopped around 1880, picked up again around 1946. Um, but the anomalies that show up in the last 40 years in particular, I I believe are related to I 295, the highway transportation system for Durham to become a bedroom community had been

put in place. Since that time period, starting in the in the decade between 1970 and 1980, we're running about 220 homes in that 10-year period. In the last four decades after that, we're running right near 250 to 300 homes a year. I mean, or within a 10-year period. This year followed suit, we've done right around 25 or 30 homes. The the reason that I'm bringing this forward, there's a couple of reasons I'm bringing this forward. One significant thing that happened this year is a fairly substantial amount of the subdivision inventory in town was absorbed. Once the subdivisions are done, there have been no new subdivisions in town because of the restrictions on permitting and subdivisions. At that point, all of the growth, which is substantial, and there are more so than almost anywhere else around us, is going to be focused on town roads. 300 feet for a housing lot on town roads at 30 houses a year times 300 feet is

almost two miles of rural roadside per year is going to be absorbed in lawns and mailboxes and driveways. I did a map from some of the GIS work that I've done in the available lots in town on town road. So 10-year period you're losing 17 12 miles of rural road. And if the town wants to say rural character, that's a problem. That's a significant problem in my mind. I don't get to make these decisions. Um, and the mapping that I did states that the available buildable lots in the town of Durham are likely to be consumed within the next 30 years. I'm sorry, the next I'm sorry, the next 15 years. Not the next 30 years, the next 10 to 15 years at 300 to 450 houses

times 300 ft per lot. Start picking roadsides and you pretty much have used up the available inventory. Our ordinance doesn't allow for additional revenue streams. It's very unfriendly to business. It's completely restrictive to subdivision. the entirety of your tax base is going to be on residential property taxes and you're going to be facing significant property tax increase year after year after year. If you can't increase your revenue, your existing customer is the only place you get to go for money. Um, it's a in my mind as it's part of the reason I think that the previous comp plan really did try to specify the need for a town planner to get involved in the way the town's developing so that you can plot these types of trends and how they get to play out over time and try to short circuit some of this stuff. Um, I think it would be really good for the board to try to figure out how they want to

approach moving forward with both the comp plan and ordinances to see what they can do about future revenue. It doesn't paint a pretty picture. It's not unique. So, or I just want to make sure that I'm understanding. So, part of the reason is because our subdivision ordinances are so restrictive. Well, if you look

difficult to put in subdivisions and and sort of take the pressure off the main town roads and and create there's two parts to that and that's part of it. Yes, you relieve the pressure on the town roads so that the rural character of town can be maintained as long as possible. The other thing is just a matter of supply and demand. The more available buildable lots in town, things manage to stay sort of right. They stay with each other. You have the opportunity with subdivisions to start to work on increasing residential density. So you can do smaller lots. You can there, you know, if you go by a subdivision road, the only subdivision, the only thing you see is a road. You don't see 15 houses. You see a road. And often times the first lots are are kept off the main road. So really, unless you go down there, there's really not much to see. So it's a, you [snorts] know, it's a difficult thing to do. But some of this

stuff has got to be looked at here in the near future if anybody ever hopes to get to the point of having reasonable tax base in town and spendable income because the other way see Durham's in a tough spot. You don't have a coastal region. You can't, you know, do quadruple charges along the oceanfront to offset the other costs in town for whatever it is that you have. You don't have a Sebago Lake. You don't have a recreational zone. You don't really have any other

You don't have a downtown [laughter] all those other things, right? and in and in your ordinance, you couldn't do a downtown. You couldn't build a downtown. You couldn't create it. Now, are these issues that I guess I would have I would anticipate that these are are things that the comprehensive plan committee

would be looking at. That's kind of the the one of the driving ideas behind in my mind behind. So, here's the issue for me. The previous comp plan addressed a lot of this stuff, but the implementation lies here. All right? If it doesn't get implemented, if the ordinances don't correspond to the comp plan as it was presented, if someone isn't tracking what's happening today through the year and then bringing it back in the spring and say, "Okay, this is where we this is where we plan to go. This is where we wound up. This is where we need to adjust. You really don't have planned growth." and the and the state SPO's office significant response to not certifying your last comp plan was because of the fact that you didn't relieve population growth in the rural district. The resident the the growth district was created under that, but the lot sizes are the same in square footage and only 50 ft less road frontage. There's no

significant reason for anybody to move into the growth district if all of the valuable land is along Lisbon Toppsum Brunswick Freeport line. And if you look at your town map, that's where all your growth density has been over the last 20 or 30 years. It's going to continue to be pressured there. So if you can't plan

this stuff, if you can't look at trends, you can't understand what's happening. folks that feel their property taxes are out of control. But the people are moving to town because you have a great school and low property taxes. Your property values are low. They're coming here because this looks like it's a great buy. The folks that are living here are screaming because their taxes keep going up. you're in a culde-sac I don't know how you get out of but if it isn't looked at from that perspective and helped somehow whether you hire planning work on some of this development try to look at how to broaden your revenue base and I'm not saying subdivisions is the answer business relief would be great

you know I don't I didn't make any of these laws I don't know where they came from and I don't know what people had in mind there's a lot of folks in want no growth. And you can do no growth, but if you do no growth, every time something comes in that needs to get paid for, everybody has to pay.

You got to be prepared to pay for it, right? You and you're going to wind up rolling this thing over. So, and you can't catch up with the costs. Your road costs alone in town exceed your val your property tax evaluation to try to repair all the roads in town. You're 10 years paying for that. And that's if you pay for nothing else. So, I'm not saying my figures are dead on. I think it's stuff that needs to get looked at, and I think it's it's it's it should be the things that are in conversation with this board about where you want to be in the future and how it is that you can get help to figure out how to get there. If tax relief is what you want and not double digit tax increases, something's got to give. And I don't know what. And would there be and and I guess this is probably more directed at you, Todd, do you think there would be some value to having the board of selectment and the planning board maybe sit down in a

workshop and and talk about some of this stuff because we're kind of both going about our business, but we're not really the committee also because the comp plan is going to going to steer the direction, right? What is going to go with the in the future with the ordinances? I I agree.

Um the five lot subdivisions and rural residential has hurt growth in this town. The the way we treat commercial um projects has really hurt this town. That's one reason why LLBAN drives through our town to go to Lewon. They could have built a warehouse here if we had welcomed them.

The current ordinance doesn't allow for commercial development that can be seen within 1,000 ft of a residential structure from the tallest floor of the residential structure. So when you're standing on the tallest floor of a two-story building with bedrooms on a third floor, you can't see that business for a,000 ft.

So it's almost a half for what in the business half mile circle anywhere in town. Well, people can see the get and go from their house. Well, the get and go predates some of this stuff, but you could not build the get and go today. You would have to screen it for it has to be set back 100 ft from any set side set line or road. It has to be fully screened from view. You know, this is

that was a replacement also. I don't So, the you know the thing for me is this. If that's really what people want in town, then taxes is what pays for it. If you just want a rural community with no growth, every expense that comes to the door gets applied to the only customers you have, which are the ones that are here, and it's going to be double digit. And there's nothing you can do about it. And I don't know that people are making the decision based on that type of information. I understand the intent to not want the town to change, to just want good old Durham to be good old Durham. I understand the intent to not want to have to be out of control with taxes and not really understanding what spending is going on. But I think the mindset that comes out of this is that the money that comes into town from taxes is being misspent. It's being abused. It's being used inconsiderately. And it's not. You

just can't control any other way to increase your capacity to sustain the financial responsibilities of the town except taxes. I agree. I I've said it for years. You can't keep asking for the things that people ask for and expect tax dollars to pay for it without

this is not asking for anything more. This is a static situation. I don't think the vast majority of people necessarily understand how restrictive those ordinances are because I hear people talking all the time about wanting business growth and how do we encourage business growth and and those kinds of things. But

I think they do now. I think you hear more of that now. But I know back when that was all looked at quite a few years ago, that was the thing. It was a bedroom town. People moved here. A lot of people moved here specifically because they had school choice. They could have send their kids wherever they wanted to. And they didn't really have to pay a lot for that. And that was a big push. We don't want business. We don't want business. And I said back then, you ain't going to do this forever cuz now this is where we are. So we we have to look at Somebody said there wasn't enough power in town, but there's plenty of power. It's right at Southwest Bend. and they put power up all the time.

Now we've got the school here now. So it's, you know, that shouldn't be an issue. So that's really some of the things we should be looking at. I think you really ideally what you want is somebody who pays high taxes and use very little amenities because we don't have any amenities. We're stopping, you know,

and and I'm not talking about you're looking for high-end senior housing, [laughter] are you? You know, I'm not I'm not talking people looking for the town to do more. I'm talking just the town doesn't do anything other than what it's doing right now. Oh, you're double digit.

Well, the town doesn't do anything but fix roads and we're double digit with not even the operating or the fire department or anything else. Just straight up roads alone are are more well the the the necessity for planning and somehow utilizing the the the intent of the previous comp plan to specifically look at that particular issue and how it affects the t the tax base and the ability for town to grow in the way it wants. I think your window for capitalizing on that is closing fast. I did I can show you the map if you get a chance sometime you want to come in the office. I took the map I did of Durham with all the parcels and I took 300 by300 foot lots which is 90,000 square feet and I started dotting the roadsides and I haven't quite finished out a 10-year period but I'm pretty sure you're not going to make 15 with the current inventory. Something's got to give or

you're done. And in real numbers, you're much less than that cuz people aren't going to sell off their land. That's right. That's right. And well, but then you But see, okay, so then you So this is the other part that comes into play. And this is where it gets really complicated is you So people don't want to sell off their land, so there's not much available. So the prices start going up and then the property values in town start to get up creep up to the same or similar areas in Freeport and Yarmouth and various other places. All the folks our age are going to look at the two lots they've been holding next door and sell them. So, you can't develop ordinance that tells the folks in the rural district that they can't sell their property. You'll never get it by town vote because those guys are going, "That's my retirement right there. I've been paying taxes on that for 30 years." You can't.

We have people in town. That's exactly what they're doing. I know. And then and and probably rightly so. So, the only way to deal with it is to relieve pressure in certain areas so that the inventory stays available and the property property evaluations don't skyrocket. you're in a, you know, it's a catch 22 here one way or the other. You've got to find a source of revenue.

So, what do you propose? You need a town planner. You need, and it's been 10 years, you know, coming to the trough on that one that should have been done 10 years ago. You need someone who can track this type of information that trends yearbyear. And you're a programmer, right, Jeffrey? Do you you know what P programming is? There's a type of programming that they use specifically. It works really well for modeling machine use. You calculate where you want to go with a particular machine. So you take say it's a the uh cruise control on your car. You're going to get on the highway. You want to hit 50. Okay? So you hit the button and it heads up for 50. Goes really fast. Hits the 50 mark at full acceleration. Then starts to slow down. So you go 60 40 60 40.

Bounces around a lot. All right. That's the proportional part of PID programming. Um the the integral part of PID programming takes the reaction from that and starts to base it on a curve rather than high low high low. It starts to try to level it off sooner. The derivative part of P programming is where it takes that information once you got to where you're going and it reassesses how it did based on what you had told it you wanted to do and it brings it back around and readjusts the input parameters to try to get you there. So the idea with a planner is that annually with the with the um with

the planning board is to sit down and look at where are we going, how are we doing, where are we going, how are we doing, what do we adjust this year and make recommendations to the board to bring it to town meeting that our ordinance need to adjust in these ways because we're not getting what we want. [snorts] um the whole series of things, but someone's got to have their finger on the button paying attention to what's going through. And nobody's doing that because nobody's it's been nobody's task. If you look at my uh job description, it's not mine either. This is this is me just paying attention. Okay? I'm I encourage you to look at what I've given you. I encourage you to look at the ordinances. I encourage you to look into make sure that there's some accuracy in what you think I've provided for you and that my assumptions could possibly be correct. The two parts in that graph in the housing graph that are

difficult to assess are the last 20 years from 2000 to 2010 and 2010 to 2020. The reason I say that is because 2008, 2009, and 2010 were severe housing recession. Three years of that 290 housings in the decade were years of almost no housing. Okay? Six years of the next decade have been almost no housing. So those figures are are anomalies. So

it wouldn't surprise me if somewhere at 220 it jumps much higher and the next decade it jumps again even higher because the pressure here even today the I believe it was today that the main association of realtors released their 2016 figures and indicated that 2016 housing sales were their highest year since they started keeping records.

Correct. The pressure from the growth coming north around Portland it starts in Boston. You do the Boston DC corridor and there's this radiating ring as the population continues to expand in those areas, it continues to move north. The other anomaly you get in Maine is the fact that the majority there's a lot of folks in the northern Maine regions that are leaving those towns. They're not all leaving Maine. A lot of them are coming to the southern portions of Maine to work. So, you're getting it from both directions as far as growth pressure.

And you guys are in the next wave and it's here. Just out of curiosity, I I this is number of new homes. I'm assuming it's probably based on permits or something. Do we have an idea of number of net new net homes? The net home growth because some of these are could be replacing other, you know, and things like that. We don't we don't know net, do we?

Very this, as far as I know, these are all current. They're they're new constructions. They're not tear down and rebuilds. See, that's what I mean by net. These are these are not based on based on permits. These are based on the tax rules.

So if you have a house that's been burned down and replaced or torn down and replaced, it's the house is still noticed on the tax roles as one structure. Okay. That doesn't come into play. Okay. Cuz I I was I was just doing a a rough count from 1970 to now and it's like probably around what 1300 uh roughly. And if I remember correctly from CMP, they say there's about 18,850

households in town. Yeah, that's about right. And everything beyond that 1300 was for the 200 years previous. [laughter] tax rolls from 1794 to about 2000. From 2000 to 1945, there were additional 32 homes. So I told you driving around you look at the architecture in town. Nothing was built here from the turn of the century to the second and the second world war and most of it's because they all moved to the mill communities to work.

And the railroad didn't come through. What's that? And the railroad didn't come through among other things. When you read the history of Durham, such and such was put in, but it didn't go through Durham. And then [laughter] the railroad came in and it didn't go through.

Um, you know, I know you guys are in a budget season and I know it's a really stressful thing. It's incredibly stressful for the employees because we feel like we're intensely under the gun to not get a dime for anything and [music] we get every single complaint that comes through the door. We get it front and center and there's folks that you have in here in these offices that work really, really, really hard for the town and we don't get paid a lot. Um,

it'd be nice to look at having an opportunity in the future to sort of make up for a little bit of that ground and that means revenue. That's all I got. Thank you. Um actually this might be a good time to bring up asformational uh BA because the comprehensive plan committee has a meeting next Tuesday and evening right?

Yesing divisioning meeting. What time? Um here. Durham Community School. Okay. In the cafeteria. In the cafeteria. So, um, if you're looking This is basically next Tuesday night. This is looking for input from the town. Yep. This is a visioning meeting. This is where they're going to start talking to the the people and find out what we're thinking.

Okay. Thank you. Um, do you have anything much for report or uh that you need to report or Okay. Um, anything from you? I'm okay. Okay. So, I think we'll go into u the budget discussions and what I understand we're going to go with the public works right now.

Yep. Thanks. Thank you guys. Y here. Jill's not here. Who's not here? No. One too many of those then. Okay, I'll give one to her. I have a little We'll use your copy. Actually, is this the same same thing you gave me? So, I don't need

think we'll try to work down through the through um our regular sheet and when we get to something that needs to be broken out, we can look at yours. Okay. So, um, race pool, what was I just want to know what your thought is on um, where the number came from, just so that when we get into discussing uh, personnel stuff,

what's the percentage? I think it was 2%, right? Okay. 2%. Yes. Okay. All right. Thank you. those doesn't include Calvin because Calvin is already in there which is it also 2%. Yeah. Everything's 2%. Okay. Um we want to do 5%.

No. Next. So question for we're only looking at a $4,700 increase in in salaries and last year we only spent 14,000. It's FICA is actually going up more than our increase in uh FICA includes U main PERS and FICA and main PERS is actually going up this year. It it may not be the 18,000. I may be able to to lower that [snorts] somewhat because um part-time people don't uh get main pers.

Okay. So that that's that explains it. Thank you. Um it used to be did it used to be separate or separated in some budgets, right? Uh, no. No. Okay. Not from what I've seen. Okay. Medicare makes sense. Health insurance. And that's just the is that just the regular increase or is did

That's the regular increase. Okay. I wasn't sure if we picked up uh with with the employee changes whether some somebody took an extra. No. [cough] And workers comp. We've already discussed that. It's actually going down from what we spent last year. That's because the the extra money that we owed from the 2015 year.

Okay. And um I did do an audit and I'm assum I I'm coming up with that. We won't owe additional money this year. Okay. Utilities, heat and electric. Um you spent 10,5. You're asking 14,000. What? What? 1400. What's the increase there? You feel

I u Oh, let's see. I I cut the CMP bill from 7 to six. Uh cuz you're asking for more. You're you're Yeah, you're asking more than you spent or or are you just are you trying to come in on a number come in on a target slowly on that or something? Because

uh we we we budgeted 18,000 last year, but we only spent 10,500, right? the breakdowns on the other page. I mean, oil prices have gone up. They were quite a bit. They were very low for a period of time last year. We're locked in on that now, right?

But only for the number two oil, not for his No. So, yes, for the number two oil, we're locked in, but only till the end of the season. So, we were at 18310 last year as approved. And we spent 115 94 and I'm asking for 14. So if you go back over to the left column, uh second one in that total those items

total that 14810. If you go down those you can compare those numbers to what was approved in 16 and what we spent in 16. So I I cut the uh the CMP uh to 6,000. Fair point stays the same. Comcast stays the same. Cut heating oil and you cut propane.

I cut propane. I cut heating oil. Yeah, I see what you're saying. So, that's just the to what it what it comes out to. And um Okay. No, I'll just came up with it. this on last year because we had a warm winter and Right. So, you cut like for heating oil, you cut 2,000 from your what you asked for last year. Y,

but you're judging that it might you might use more this year. So, but it also it looks like you also moved um the the cell phone stipens into that utility line. They had been in a different line, have they? Yep. Yeah, they they did get expensed into a different line. Yes.

Okay. Okay. Okay. Well, all right. That absorbs I think some of that communications [clears throat] Um, we had 800 approved last year. I spent 1110 and so I'm looking for 12. Oh, is this is this where the me cell phones got moved out of

where the cell phones were? Okay, thank you. That's that explains why there's the difference there. Y Okay. Equipment maintenance. Uh, my next one is bond payments. We want to skip that one or skip the bond. We're trying. Yeah, we're trying to go down through the that that list there just

4,000. We're on 4,000. Yeah. Equipment maintenance. 4,000. Okay. So, equipment maintenance, vehicle equipment maintenance. Um um we had 415 [clears throat] approved. Spent 28875. That was uh 2015. Uh you spent 32071. Yeah. Next next one over is 2016. You got to go in the other seat. You're going to get yourself screwed up.

Okay. Where are you? 4,000. You expended 32,000. A little over. Mhm. You used Yeah. On your sheet, you had the wrong 2016 spent. I did. Well, it's different than what I have. I thought I took it right off that trio sheet. You probably you probably went to the wrong column because the numbers that you said were 2015.

Yeah. Okay. I must have grabbed it off the wrong column then. Okay. Uh so we spent uh yours is uh 32071. Okay. I was wondering I thought that was Okay. So I'm looking for 38. We added the JD link. That is the uh 1500. Well there's your breakdown in that second column over. So, we added the uh uh JD link for 1,500. That's what tells me everything that's going on with the equipment.

Was that part of your expenses? Did you pay this last year as part of your expenses? No, they had the freight liner last year. Okay. Didn't have the uh JD Link. Okay. Now, the Freightlininer diagnostics, that 1,500, is that an annual cost?

Yes. Okay. And is theif is the JD link. Will that be a $1,500 annual? I think I just paid that bill. Actually, it was 1531. So, [clears throat] the JD link. Let's see. You did you paid that in December, but it it would come up next December again.

Um just had a question on this one. I'm looking back through and um four three years ago we spent 35,000, two years 26. this year 32. Um we're asking 38. If um if we take into consideration the extra 1,500 or something like that, if we back this to 36, would would that would would that give you enough? Um we have three new trucks instead of two now. Um hopefully your equipment your repairs may go down a little bit or something, but I'm just I'm asking the question.

Okay, so the trucks are older. It may go up though. Some some of the truck but we we replaced one of the old trucks and we So I mean but the trucks we have are a year older and they've been through another year of severe use.

It's not that I want to cut it. I just don't want to cut too short. All right. So let's see. Uh 4,000. So vehicle equipment. Um [cough] highest you had was 35,000 26 32. That's why Jeff was at That's why I was asking giving giving you at least giving you an extra thousand over anything that you've spent in the last 3 years. But

you want to go to 36? Um I'm Is that going to Is that going to handicap you? I have no idea. I It's When it comes to fixing equipment is we never know what's going to break. We just have to have a number and we can only All we can do is kind of an average of

So we're going to be running what? Four old trucks next year. Yeah. Four or five with the spare. Got I thought I thought we had seven. Seven before it. Yeah. Yeah. So we So we're running three plus the spare. Yeah. Right.

And we've got three newer ones now. How do you feel about the the new ones? No, the the 36 36. Oh, the old ones. The old ones. They've got some issues. Um well, just uh they're they're you know, another year of salt, another year of rust, and um we're looking for stuff to weld to. So,

I don't have any problems cutting to 2,000 if again, I just don't want to be caught. You want to go to 36? We can go to 36. Yeah, let's go. Now, this is summer maintenance, so this really doesn't affect the old plow trucks anyway. That's more falls under winter maintenance.

I take winter out of winter maintenance comes those older trucks. You want to go 36? We'll do. Okay. Okay. you look at what you've spent in the past and I've asked the mechanic if we have any expected upcoming major uh things and he couldn't think of any. So,

okay. So, rental equipment. Why the $3,000 credit in rental? That's what I was going to ask. And rental. Well, that's not actually a $3,000 credit. That was a mistake. Um it's a credit and the reason it was a credit was because uh we shared a lawn mower with Pound and we forgot to invoice it in 2015. And so it got invoiced in 2016 and that's why the So they paid us for an expense that was in 2000.

What what was the actual expended this year then for that line? Nothing. Zero. We didn't rent anything. And do you have what do you have plans to? Yeah. Well, yeah. Planning to do the roadside mowing and the Okay. We and I'd like to do some uh ditching um with um um with a ho ramp to

get some of our ditches working on some of our side roads. Okay. Holding water. All right. So, and we didn't do roadside. Did we do roadside mowing this year? Okay. So, we probably Right. You had said that you [clears throat] didn't feel like it needed to be done every year.

Every year. I didn't think it needed. So, that line the year before was uh what was it? 13,000. I could fall I could fall right down. Roads uh rental equipment rights here is 20 15. and Okay. So, that 13 and and Panel reimbured us uh for 3 3,000 of it or so. So, okay. All right. That that explained.

This one's facility maintenance. That's we had a big jump there. [cough] Yep. Uh that is because well the $5,47 was for the roof. I mean what we spent Oh, that's right. Because we we had to spend some out of the budget. We didn't have enough out of the bond.

Oh, yeah. For the I understand that. So when you deduct that out, uh if you look at the blue top line on the second page, you'll see uh the uh at 12,16591. Minus the roofing of 5400 it comes up to 7118. Okay. Mhm. 18. So that's what we actually spent.

And take out the roof. And you're adding the extra 2,800 to do a garage door. R 2800 over here was um was the salt shed door. Yeah, that's I saw that. Yeah, you had added salt. Okay. So, you're wanting to replace the door or or is it is it replacement or is it adding?

I got a feeling it's going to be replacement. Okay. Well, so there's one already there. Yep. But it's just there's nothing left. Okay. I I wasn't sure if we were putting a garage door that wasn't there before or if we Okay, so we're replacing

Can't really close it. We found a dead animal in the sand. What that was, but he couldn't get back up to hell. Septic system here. You have needs to be pumped and possibly serviced. Yep. You have 500 down one. Why so much?

Um, well, I don't know what size tank that is. I'm assuming that's commercial,000 gallon tank. I think it's,000. Oh, yeah. Uh, I didn't know what he put a system in. What what size tank he put in there. What uh and I don't know um if it's got filters or what it's going to need. Yeah. [snorts]

What is it? What is it? Two 250 to pump usually. Around 300 now. And then and then if you have to do anything like filters or stuff like that. Any filters or any other type of baffles falling off the tank? Just just asking. Yep. [clears throat]

Okay. So, that really got to get done because I I have no records. In fact, the septic I think that shows it's in there isn't even in there. [clears throat] So next next to um no next next one is professional training and professional development. You only spent 600 but are you looking to do have more classes or have them have your the employees attend more classes. Um, this is 14

because a lot of what happened uh you know with like uh uh should we should have gotten a lot more done and I'm hoping to definitely get it done this year is uh like you know we wanted to give Ron some classes. Yeah, we had that up we had that discussion.

Sounds good. So I'd like to I think we really should be hitting that mark. So okay. Um, you planning to do a mass replacement on signs or something. Um, well, the 2500 was for the one I showed you the picture of. Welcome to Durham.

Oh, yeah. Oh, okay. Thank you. That's that's 2500. And that that basically covers um all but 500 because you spent over over 2,000. So, really probably you could see that going higher. So, right. Did that include the um the stencils, the stop ahead stenciling as well or was that in the safety line?

That was under safety. Um that would be under operational supplies. Actually, it probably would come under flag. Probably would come under a new line that I put in for under paving for striping. And I see you have a note here. New code regulations for private road signs. Is that another change to them? Okay.

That's the same note from last year. Same. Okay. That's why we end up buying a lot of sonic stuff. Yep. Uh safety equipment. You're asking a,000 more than last than you 300. Yeah. 300 more than you spent. Than you spent. Yeah.

Yeah. So, that makes sense. You're asking 500 more than you spent. Yeah. I added $450 for the uh Greater Poland Council government's bid fee for the salt. [clears throat] Okay. They charged us that bill came in and I had no place to put it. That's where it should have gone. So

yep. Thank you. I see you've been spending 4,000 right long. Okay. Fuel account. Uh that's gasoline and diesel. So you 21,000 more than we spent last year. Is that because you're I just picked the same number and I don't know what the winter's fuel prices are going up and winter

does winter come under this one. Does winter fuel come under this one? Yeah. Um and we're I'd say we're seeing about a what a 25% increase in general. So well in in usage. I mean, they're barely keeping up with keeping the tanks full through through

No, but no, I'm talking in in price in pricing. Um, I understand why you have it there. Yeah, makes sense to me. Mhm. Okay. Uniforms, you went down a little bit. [cough] Yeah. Didn't spend it. And so, I think we can comfortably cut that.

1,200. [clears throat] You're going What? What? What was professional services again? Engineering surveying. Okay. Uh are you seeing that cuz we only spent 14,000 last year. Uh are you seeing that we may need to have more of that this year?

Oh yeah. Yeah. We got to get ahead of We need to get stuff surveyed and engineered and stuff for the year ahead. So So you're kind going to kind of try to do two two years this year. Yeah. We'll try to get stuff ahead. So we

Okay. Why the big increase in traffic control? Well, we didn't have traffic control before. I just added it. Uh because what happens is instead of adding a new person, I think if we have the traffic control line, I it it freed us up having the traffic having the flag contracting. Yeah. Subcontracting.

It wasn't using our people to we were free to do work, right? So, so if if if so what I've been doing is um using uh the the on call drivers to help wash trucks do patching roads tomorrow two of them are coming in to patch roads because we last year we got way behind on washing trucks and if you get behind on washing trucks they're going to rust they're going to rot just if you leave that salt on there for several days so this year we're more aggressive with um but I'm finding that we need those that extra manpower rather than add a full-time position If I can utilize the on call people, we're not paying benefits. We're not paying over. We're cutting down the overtime

at $15. You're talking about $50,000 with benefits. It was just a new line. So, I was just explain to me explaining to you that [clears throat] Okay. Um, you're anticipating fair amount of tree work this year. Yeah. I mean it's last year you cut it to four so I assumed you'd do it again so I went with [laughter]

cut it to four so want to do that again you only spent 660 so right well and that's the thing is there is plenty of work to be done we just didn't get to it but this year I'd like to get to it I thought we spent more than that just over on

that's where we spent it I was going to say probably the tree work we spent money on was in the bone Oh, okay. I know we spent more than $660. Yeah. Okay. All right. Yeah. I mean, [clears throat] we've got dead trees and stuff that are over the road that ought to come down.

Well, I would imagine you've probably already spent some money on tree work with the ice storms that we've had this year. Yeah. Well, fortunately, so far we've been able to handle it, but there's still some hangers up there we'll probably have to get help with down the road to have somebody go in and get them with a bucket truck. Didn't I see a letter, Ruth, from CMP that they're going to be doing tree work in town this summer as well?

So that that may well they take some of the pressure off of you guys a little bit. They only do tree work on the side that's got power lines. If I could talk them into joining the other side. [laughter] Well, the other side they don't care if you're smacking your windshield. They don't care.

So yeah. Uh, I'm going to I'm going to star this one as one to come back to. Yep. Just cuz uh I think we until you show that we actually could spend, you know, that we actually spend it or or whatever. Spend it, you don't spend it, you lose it.

Well, I don't I don't like that policy either necessarily. But I Well, yeah. I mean, I I think I'd be comfortable with cutting that to four if you That's exactly where I was thinking. There it is. Four. So, okay. Line 4046. 406. That's 4,000 off the budget.

got to material. What's that? What's What is that? That is You'll see it's a list right down below it. It's so got [cough] second page 451. So did we kind of work down our supply this year and you're trying to get it back up because you're asking for 26,000

more than you spent last year. Yep. where last year was approved was 45325. We spent $1820 $18,020 and a lot of that was just because we were just so busy with the bond project that we didn't have time to get to. What's this dust control?

Dust control is uh says new $6,000. That's a new line. Yeah. Um that's something that we really needed last year. the dust was just everywhere and we didn't have anything in the budget to Do you expect us to be doing grinding to to to be able I mean do you see us doing that this year or do you just find low? Oh, no. No. I'm saying dust controls on the gravel roads. We put down magnesium chloride to

Have we ever done that in in in the past? Um, before I uh before I got here, they did, but I don't know why they got there's no place in the budget for it. So, I think it was just stuff they had left over from winter or whatever. And it's really a different mix. It's they're they're not the same.

So, we're going to spend $6,000 so that they don't have dust on the road. Yeah. On a dirt road. Well, it's not just that. It's not just that. If you put this If you put this on, it uh locks it. It's almost like pavement. And when it rains, you don't lose all your fines. After it rains on them, you look you have all these rocks on top and there's no fines. Once you lose your fines, the rest of it, there's nothing. The fines are the binder that hold the gravel together. And so once you let water infiltrate into that gravel, once it dries out, u so there's all kinds of studies that show that that roads should have dust control,

calcium, magnesium, or something like that. Then that there's a benefit to that in that you save gravel. [clears throat] Did So did we not purchase any gravel last year? Yeah. Yeah. I'm just looking at what do you have on listed on here? Your expenses was 9,000 for patch and

Yeah. I we we had 21,000 for patch. That was the budget. Yeah. You spent 9,000, right? Right. Yeah, I but I'm just looking uh what you have for expenses. You didn't you don't show any expenses for any gravel, reclaim, rip wrap.

Oh, right. Yeah. Well, I didn't break it long. Okay. So, that 9,000 is a lump for all that, right? No, no, no, no, no. That 9,000 the 18 we spent 1820 $18,20 is what we total. So 9,000 was part of it. Okay. Yes. So that was half of it.

Okay. Um, so I'm cutting that patch line because we rebuilt Runaround and Rabbit, which is where a lot of the patch was going. And so I'm dropping that to uh 12. Um, because you still have Davis, Bowie Hill, which are getting worse by the day. So

And Meadow Road and Meadow and they get worse. They're this year they're going to be far worse than last year. I'm so this is the nuts and bolts of what how we operate but because we were so busy with the road bond. Are you going to be any less busy this year with what you're proposing?

I don't know. That's what I So you said a lot of lot of ditching doing those two roads don't because I I mean I've I've looked at what you're proposing and it looks like it's um just as if as aggressive schedule if not more. And what I was [cough] planning to do is to um

is get more of those to him, hoping that we'll be caught up a little more on our mechanical stuff and be able to put a couple of guys out on other projects uh doing more. That's another reason why it's helpful to have the flagers and [clears throat] Okay. Um, I understand, but I'm going to start that one because just uh I mean we're asking

two and a half almost two and a half times what we spent last year. So I'm asking for less than last year. No, you're asking for less than I'm talking about what you spent and Y. So I understand you were building the roads why you weren't really spending money out of that wine. I I understand that.

But not going to get a bond. just keep in mind or if I don't build if I'm not doing new construction, I'm definitely going to need that money. That's Yep. So, I [clears throat] had to put that in there because I can't speculate on what

what decision is going to be made in the end. So, that would we we'd come back to that. Okay. Culverts basically the same. Erosion control pretty much the same. That makes sense. roads and paving. Uh paving. Okay. So, I want to change the paving line to roads. I want to change that headline. So, she added that

it's more appropriate to say roads because I'm doing more than just paving road repair or road maintenance or something. Yeah. Okay. And so, I So, we show a $218,500 increase in this line, but really you got to take out the 60,000 from below. So, it's 158,000 ex more this year that you're asking for.

Well, I got to get there first. Let's see. Okay, there it is. [cough] [snorts] So, um I get rid of the chip seal. Well, I put chip seal up here. I put the surface treatment up here. So, if you look down below where it says surface treatments,

it says zero, right? What we spent last year was 75,600. So I'm asking for zero there because I'm going to move that up under pave up under roads. So right. Right. So the Shiman overlay number that you're proposing it looks like is

is is the substantially similar to what you spent on paving last year and a lot of that increase is adding well actually if you take how I came up with that I should have probably spelled that a little bit better is um is if you take that 185 174 is what we

spent last year. Yep. If you go back to your left and you'll see Cedar Pond Road and Stackpole Road, you'll see 1.83 and 1.6. I should have put the formula in here, but at at 100 and u uh $20,000 per mile. You've got that in the comments there. Yeah,

I Okay. Yeah, there it is. Okay. 120,000 per mile uh times uh I think that's 3.43 is 436. uh that's a shimon overlight. That's a 3/4 shim and an inch and a half overlay plus shoulders. I that's 3.43 miles and we would do zero on the chip seal. We do 5,000 on the crack seal, 2500 on the striping. The

I'd like to catch before they get any worse. Um, year? It's I mean, what I guess what I would say is if you look at that report I gave you on the roads at 45 miles and a 10-year plan, you we need to be at uh four miles. Four miles a 4.5 miles.

Right. Right. But I mean, you need to be we need to be when I did the math on that $117,000 a mile, it comes out to um like $550,000 a year just to maintain on a 10-year plan to maintain all of our roads if they were all built and done just to put a surface on them every 10 years. And I think to save, you know, yes, we have to look at at repairing the bad stuff, but I do think that we've got to to spend money on on saving the roads that can be saved because I think our the the failure to do that in in past decades is what

this is why we're in. Do we not have any roads that really qualify for the chip seal then right now or are you not imp impressed with it? Well, what I may end up doing is uh I mean I I I may be able to uh stackpole probably be a candidate for a chip for a shim and chip seal um cedar pond. Yeah, shim and chip seal for stackpole and cedar pond.

So what what section of stackpole are you looking at just uh from bully hill to auburn panel road? It's the last piece. The other two sections have been done. I was going to say I knew we had done the first section chip sealed it at some point. So

So this would be So um if I did a shim and chip seal uh shim and chip seal I could probably do that for like 70,000 a mile and I would be okay with that on on stack pole. but and that would free up some add if we kept the number where it was. It would free you up to do some additional

tip ceiling on other roads or we could drop the line item. That would be about 7 a little bit more than 75,000 that we'd save off. Oh yeah. Stack pole. Yeah. About 75,000 I think. That would We're at 285 this past year. Mhm.

Um that's what was approved. Okay. 25. So um bring us bring us down? 70,000. So So yeah, about 75 because one 1.5 miles would be if if you're saving 50,000 a mile, 1.5 miles 75,000. Yeah. So I could adjust that too, but I just need a when I put the plan together for for um and shimmanship seal is has been somewhat controversial in the past and in the last few years it's come to light. We've had from what I can see and what we've done in the last three or four years and what PL's done in the last four or five years it seems to be working for us.

What was the controversy? Just a lot of people didn't like it. noise [snorts] or the that was a little rough or well there were there were I don't know just people got away from it I don't know there were people got into it and there was a lot of competition so people started cutting the liquid asphalt with gasoline and you know everybody got a everybody with a station wagon and a wheelbarrow got in the business and then the integrity of the product just went and so now it's coming back and all states pretty much the only one around that's doing it is they they're right by the letter. So they they have a reputation.

What's what's the longevity of that versus a Shimanovo? [snorts] We were just having that discussion. But I can tell you we've got five years in tunnel of of they seem to be holding up fine. But what that does is it uh but the shim getting the profile back keeps the water shutting off the road. Once you start flattening that road up, it starts holding water and it's your road deteriorates so rapidly at that point. So the shim is a real important part.

Shim. Yeah. And that keeps your profile. And then the the um the the chip seal is um it's like a driveway sealer but with a stone. It um it's a wearing surface and a waterproof. Um it uh but you know to stretch the dollar um if we if we stay with that $120,000 a mile if we can cut that in half we're we've got chip seal on the rest of that road

and we shimmed and chip sealed and from everything I can see it's it's holding up fine and they have plenty of engineering data that says it uh well I'm and I'm just thinking because it's roughly saving us it would save us 40%.

Yeah. And and if that's what the rest of that road is, I mean, that seems like a reasonable Now, if it saves us 40% and we only get 25% of the wear out of it, it doesn't make sense. Exactly. But if it if we say 40% and we and we we get, you know, 60 to 70% of the wear, then it might make sense. And I'm just Yeah.

The number I've been using, uh, which I gave you in the report last year was seven years on a chip seal and 10 years on a shimon overlay. Now, I had this discussion the other day with All State and they said they're not so sure that we're not 10 years on both. I

Well, I mean, seven seven years puts it right in the ballpark of being as cost effective. Yeah. Um, so to me, I think that's probably a good option for uh stack pole. And but you don't believe it would be a good option for cedar pond? I'd have to look into it a little bit more, but um at any rate, if you took it would be an alternative. Um but if you go with that 285 number, um

I talked to Sean, he said that he was trying to get that number up to a realistic number. I realize that. And so I'm saying, okay, if we can I do something to uh uh can I can I do take some alternative measures to reduce that number. Perhaps I can do that. I'm sure I can. I'm more or less looking for a number a budget number that's more

that on a 10-year plan for the Shimovite plan, but I think somewhere in the middle would be I don't want to I hate to cut that line. You know, I understand what you're saying, but I'd rather do more more of the chip sealing and get more surface done on these roads than

if you catch them early enough, you can do that. And there are section sections of Cedar Pond that are some sections are okay and others aren't. And it's I mean, I'm just looking because 158 158,000 more in that line is is is quite a steep,

but I do think that taxpayers do want to see the progress on the roads, you know. Absolutely. I hear it every day. Now, does that include the the country lane spur? What about my road? I initially had Country Lane in there and then Country Lane's a complete rebuilt. And when I saw these numbers, I was like, I I can't

I can't uh that's that road's got to be rebuilt. It's got to be ground up. We got to add material and pavement. We took a boulder out of the road that was that big. We went down the back one, dug it out of the middle of the road. It's gotten to the point where we don't even bother trying to waste the salt to get it to bear pavement because it's concave. So everything melts and then just refreezes. We put more salt on it, melts, refreezes. [cough] It's almost better to treat it as a gravel road and just put sand on it. [clears throat]

There is a spot on the stack pole road by the power lines that you probably notice now. It's dipped in. Yep. I know that was fixed years back a couple times, but never seems to really last. It's something you'd have to do before you could run chip seal down there.

Yeah. Well, we'll we'll look at it. And what do you what do you what do you think on that line? Yeah. [clears throat] If you took the 443 and took this took the 70 off, where would that put you? No. 7050, right? Or Yeah. 75. That's right. Yeah. 75. Yeah.

So, if we took And then maybe there's a piece of cedar pond I could do. You know, maybe I can stretch that dollar and well, I'm abstaining from this cuz I So if actually if we did the SE if we went with a 75 so you could do stack pole and left you with the cedar pond and if you could do that one that would give you some that would give you another 75 to 80,000 that you could use

to work on another road if Right. Yeah. So I I I I could do that. I mean, if if others are agreeable to do a to take the 75,000 off to to chip seal stack pole instead of uh can you use that any of that 75,000 up on the boy hill road anywhere? Will that be will that use it or is that just junk?

It's too far gone. We had that discussion today and people are calling and our snow plows are getting stuck in the pavement. So, we're now having to go up and make repairs cuz I finally told him I said, "Uh, we just have to pick your plow up and we'll have to put use more salt. That's all we can do really is if your plow is the weight of the plow alone is

can't even support the weight road up to where that last chip seal was is just a cobweb of Yeah. Yeah. That's not pretty. Road same way. I'm working I'm working on that. And maybe I could take some of this extra and try to I've thought about Is is there a chance to grind that

that part of it and just leave it dirt temporarily? I mean, would that be a better option? That part of the boyill until dust comes and mud comes until mud season and then dust season. Your car would for about 3 weeks. It would be awesome.

Well, I'm just saying your car look like money away for no reason. You ever go up north and whether it's in a paper mill those roads and drive them for a day and look at your car at the end of this what they look like? I've I've been there.

So if if we did if we took the 75,000 off, that line would now be 3685. 3685. And then, you know, if I could take that number and come back to you with, okay, here's what I can do um [clears throat] moving forward each year. And I think you're getting closer to the

Okay. So, um I think that I mean if if if we're seeing good wear on that and so on, I think that may be a good option if um try to still get done stuff done, but right. Yeah. Well, you got to you mean you got to stretch the dollar?

Yep. Or if you can and I won't I won't waste money. I'm not going to put something into something [cough] I'm not going to go in and put money I'm not going to go in and put asphalt on a road that just doesn't have a base in it. So, no, that's why I was asking about that part of it.

I think these roads are still at the point where we can save them. Yeah. And keep the profile on uh to the winter roads. What was that final number? Uh 3685. Yep. Okay. Uh deicers, um you spent 9,000. You asked for 18 last year. You're asking 18 again. Are we using it?

13094. That's what I got. I got 9,000. You got 9,14? Yeah. that one out. You may have a different number than than mine. On the trio sheet, it shows. Okay. All right. So, you had to make an adjustment. I did have to make an adjustment.

Okay. So, so what happened is last year [snorts] I didn't really understand the whole process of the how this whole thing worked and I talked to Sean he said he didn't really know he was still working on uh he was still trying to get it was a new program and so now I have it all figured out exactly how it works and so now every piece of salt that comes into our yard gets treated but ice be gone which gives us a working temperature of 49 below zero so um this is what it's going going to cost to treat the salt that we have.

So, you will be using you'll be using more. Yes. Okay. Eight gallons per ton. We have it right down to a science of how many seconds that hose has to run to per gallon. We've measured it in the bucket and so we will be using all of it.

Okay. Um, next sand. You didn't expend anything last year for sand? Nope. And so this year, I'm assuming we're going to have to refill the Okay. Yep. Uh salt, you're uh you you got it targeted actually very close last year. Um you're asking for 20,000 more. Is is the cost going up?

Uh or are we using more? Not much. We're using more. It's just the winter. December was every Yep. And a lot of people a lot of people think is uh people a lot of people think that uh that it's based on snowfall and it's not. This to get rid of a foot of snow costs hardly anything. It gets thrown in the ditch with a plow. It's getting rid of what's left on the pavement. It's that half an inch that we got to keep treating and scraping and treating and scraping.

And if you've got you've got warm up and then freezes and so on. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So there's so many other factors. A snowfall really isn't uh it's number of events and temperatures. Okay. Well, and we've had so many accidents.

I know. It was just freezing in free everybody from riding on the road till you're done. Yeah. And in the freezing rain, we just are nonstop. So, so when it's freezing rain, I put it right on the center line. So, I got the as the water dilutes that salt. I got the entire length from there to the white line that I get to use it. Instead of putting it over here, these crystals here are only I'm only going to get this much use out of it. of of brine and then it's thawing the ditch which I don't need thought out.

Well, we want our ditches clean. Okay. Okay. So, uh next line is plow blades and I we spent less and I see you're decreasing. Yep. It's it's always we've we're already way ahead of last year. I mean December we were out seemed like every other day. So,

winter equipment maintenance here. Why so much? Probably it's I cut it. Well, last year just was just just I I have to I mean, we already got 36,000 budget that we from LA from the maintenance on the other page. Oh, you're on the winter equipment.

Let's plow lights, right? He's on to winter equipment. Winter mainten,000. Yeah. Which is an $8,000 because last year we spent 22,000. Mhm. And 227 almost 23,000. What is that? That's all the work that goes into the older plow trucks. Uh anything to do with uh HP Fairfield plow gear, plow gear, dump bodies, um plow pumps. Um

and how many trucks is that? That's one, two, three, four. Four. Four. And then the red one ton. Pretty much anything that's got to do with uh winter maintenance. The same. So 32,000 you spent in the summertime doesn't go to any of that.

No. That's on What's that spent on then? is not spent on the trucks. That's all trucks. So 32,000 in the summer. Then we go ahead and spend another 22 another. So we're spending $52,000 on maintenance and five trucks a year.

We spent 22 We spent almost 23 bed chains. Um I mean I'm just trying to figure out we're spending $50,000 a year for for a truck to keep it going. The trucks. Yep. And that does that include the um the other equipment as well?

Yep. That's everything. That's the trucks. Yeah. Yeah. So the other the other uh equipment maintenance line includes our other equipment too. Yeah. So you expended I understand you probably spent some more money cuz but we just got rid of one of those old trucks that you would have spent money on last year.

So that should be a less of a number now. We're talking grand a truck in the winter on those old trucks. Look, we just had one blow a pump the other day. It was 1,500 just to get the part. and I had to run all the way to Plymouth and get it and put I mean those things you just don't

but like I'm trying to say we just got you a brand new truck get rid of the old ones which you would have spent the 22 on last year. So now that we got rid of a problem truck that that that number that 22,000 should come down some.

So if you took 5,000 a truck I I took uh I took 27 [snorts] off it. So you want to take five off you take another 1300 off and 2200. Well I've taken from 22 down to 20. No, I see. Yeah, but that's 27. 22 brings it to five, not 12.

Right. Okay. Yeah. [laughter] No, but um Well, Right. And it's that trade-off of we've got one less old truck, but the old trucks we have are one more year. I think I I I I'd be comfortable right now. I'd want to see leave it there and see see what hap see where we are. But, um

I just I I don't just seems like a lot of money to me knowing we'd get a brand new truck there. and rest some good trucks and we got a couple old ones and we got 36,000 we're spending in the summertime supposed to be keeping upkeep on them. Then we turn around and spend another 20,000 in the winter for upkeep on them. It's a lot of money. [snorts]

It it is a lot of money but on just truck I'm just it is but I'm just nervous that we just gave $110,000 $210,000 truck whatever that was. I mean that's a I mean the taxpayers are going to say well why are we doing so much replace The funny thing is is you know people think of that truck they think it's all the truck half of the cost of that truck is the plow gear and the all the working components of

Right. Yeah. which is brand new. Right. Yeah. Right. But on the older trucks half of that truck really is is that the accessories that go on the truck. You don't understand. I run them. didn't spend we haven't expended anything in two years. Yeah. And what happened last year was we had they were all warrant I they were broke but I got them warrantied. We had a quite a battle over it and back and forth we went for months and months and finally they agreed to warranty it. So we get them fixed for warranty. So

So they're going to be out of warranty now. They're out of warranty now. Okay. So if one goes you're going to need it. Yeah. And we will need one. Okay. And just one of them I think is 800 and something alone. And then the meteorology and that's just you get updates and

Yep. Yep. That was 495 last year, right? Your budget. Yep. You cut that one to 300. How how does the I mean it's it's a very small line, but just just so I How does that differ from what you could get from doesn't a website or Yeah.

No, I think I think Yeah. I Yeah, I I almost wouldn't care if you cut it. [clears throat] I'm I'm Be careful what you say. [laughter] No, I mean I didn't know if you got it sooner than you would get it through a I this has been a discussion we've had in the classes training for snow and ice control and town swear by it. And I personally I see that and I'm getting much more updates on my on the National Weather Service and other other but uh

then let's cut it. I do use it. I kind of compare sometimes. I'll get an email from This is Gly Merly or something. Yeah. This is what this is 300's for. Yeah. I supposed to be Pacific for this location, right? Yeah. Supposed to be specific for this location. But are you getting

service when they put in the zip code that's pretty specific pretty accurate? So I personally I I I thought it last year. So if we cut it now and you decide to discontinue it and you find hey you know it was really good. I bet you you could find $300 in your budget.

Right. That's Yeah. Okay. So can I cut that? Yeah. So that brings the increase down a little bit from the 222 706 to a little closer to to 143 406 just the increase not the whole budget I'm just looking at oh uh just a subtotal there yeah I mean

we've cut 75 79 basically 79,000 from that Right. [laughter and cough] No, I was looking at the the 17.3% increase and from you I'm trying to knock. So, well, we've we've we've cut a third of that 79 79,000. We cut Yeah. 79. So, we've cut a third of that out.

That's printed at 14306. Yeah. Okay. Um, so next down below we have the uh close $300. We have the bonds, the building bond, the equipment bond, and then we have the road bond. And and my suggestion is that the road bond be its own um article. We included the building bond, the equipment bond in the public works budget because it was a way of showing this is what our bud public works is truly costing us. The road bonds is not related capital project.

It's a capital project. So I would suggest pulling that out on its own. public works altogether. Well, take it out of your operating budget. Take it out of your operating budget and basically be on the next sheet your capital. It's it's an it's a payment kind of like the way we do with the fire department.

Ruth question. Something that would be very helpful next week when we start going through this is a uh summary sheet that shows us where uh where we are budgetwise last year uh bottom line budgets for each last year this year and um where the money's

coming from and then a bottom line total for the the taxes if we get the sheet that we have every here. Yep. No, I I have that going. I just I guess I didn't print it because of the I didn't have the when cuz when we get down to the nitty-gritty, we kind of need to know where we're where we're headed

on that. Um so, cuz I some of the things like I know we have a a fair amount extra in the auto exercise this year from last year. Y and so that helps cut down on the tax impact. Yeah. And that number is on the the page. The 825,283 is the excise tax, right? Last year we were at 733. So yeah, I know I know.

So So it's like Yeah. So there's another 95. So 95 and 7079 is 174. So you're you're talking like a $50,000 increase for tax, right? Taxes and stuff, right? And but then it's it's a little bit of a kabuki dance because then you move the the road bond payment into its own line and then you're raising virtually all of that. No, actually so we have right now we have approximately 300 some thousand

349 349,000 set aside in uh the capital in the capital fund and I would I was going to suggest that we cover at least half of this at least half of this bond payment with with with that um because we're putting it aside to have to start help leveling out the tax impact and That's uh so that that's one of the things I was going to suggest, but um okay, next sheet is your public works

capital budget. Um [cough] you're saying to pay half of the of the road bond. That's what you're talking about. Yeah. with. So, uh, we have in there, um, you you show the the plow truck that we did last year and a decrease of 204,000.

Um, my suggestion last year when we put $100,000 in the budget was that we keep that in there. One year we put it into the fun capital fund. The next year we take that 100,000 and another 100,000 to get to so that we can be replacing the trucks every two years like we like like we need to. Um and you don't show that here. Um I if we don't have that in there, I have a feeling it'll be very hard to get that back in next year to try to

to try to keep up with that. Um, yeah, it was a heavy hit last year on our budget, but now but I would suggest my suggestion and we there's we can leave I mean the the board can decide on that, but I would suggest that we we put in a 100,000 just because we know we're we know we need to replace these trucks and every two years is actually almost too slow for some of them, but we can't really afford to do it faster than that.

Yep. But um we had the trucks independently reviewed this year and when we got the results back it's not pretty. So the trucks were in a lot worse shape than I thought they were. [cough] Um appropriation for the capital fund. That was that was uh oh what was that?

That was a special amount. That's a pave that was for the reimbursement from the blizzard right? Yeah. Okay. Paving for the public works. You're asking for 37,000 350 350 to be taken from the public from the capital account for the paving there.

It costs almost $40,000 to pave that parking lot. This one was about that amount. I mean, the one right here. And that just seems nuts to me. It it it is, but it's it I mean, it costs a lot to pave and parking lots almost seem like they cost more than roads.

They do. It's oil. They charge more for the asphalt. you get a different rate, but I think we're we were pretty close to the 40,000 at this one. And I I' I'd guess that the the parking lots are roughly the same similar size.

This included putting a 30ft strip in front of the two back doors and a 15t strip in front of the coal storage building just to protect the Is that to protect where you go in or something? Yeah. Yeah. Because what happens is the snow and ice builds up in front of the doors and the cold storage and we can't with the asphalt it would melt and then uh the snow slides off the roof builds up there and freezes and we're always and then they wash the trucks in the back outside and they're on dirt and

it's always building up with ice and we once you get it on gravel you can't get rid of it. So, uh it's very hard to get rid of it. That's a metal roof out back there is it? Yeah. No. And what's this wash bay curtain? Um, what happens is when it gets cold, uh, it gets down to three or four degrees or even, you know, 10 12°, uh, you can't wash the trucks outside because they just build up with ice. So we could take somebody I got a price on putting a curtain across the middle of the garage. So the back half would still be able to work on trucks and putting a curtain down the middle on both sides. And so they could be washing two trucks at a time inside the garage um regardless of what the temperature is.

And we have the proper drainage and and whatever. Oil separator. Yep. Separator and salt and floor drain. Oil water separator. It's all right in there. That would all grow into right where so we want $10,000 so you guys don't spray each other.

Yeah. Well, so they So we don't spray all the tools that we've just spent all I'm just I'm just trying to say what everybody's going to say to me. We got electrical outlets in the walls. We got But that's never been a problem before with Mike Cop. And Mike Cop's been washing trucks there for years before you got it. Where do you think he washed his trucks? Inside and he never had a problem with any of that stuff you're talking about right now. So and everybody's going to be saying that to me. So that's why I'm asking for the 10,000. It's a lot of money. $10,000 for curtains

just because I don't know. I was never in there. It was the layout the same and as terms of, you know, where other equipment is and and all the drains in the middle. Yeah. No, I meant on the sides that would potentially be sprayed.

Yeah. I mean, you got the outlets in the walls and you have other electrical components on the wall, switches [snorts] and heat and electrical panels. And I just wouldn't feel comfortable spraying water onto those items and have somebody electrocuted. I can't imagine OSHA would be very happy with that.

And we we we're held to a higher standard than a private contractor anyway. Well, that that's what I was going to ask. Is there is there a big difference to that? I know private contractors have to follow certain rules, but they can do things that commercial that public works towns don't have to. That's what I was going to ask.

They're exempt from main department of labor inspections. Have you asked them if these if these curtains are suffice or or is it too much electrical stuff in in play and too close to your work areas to even be washing equipment in there?

Uh no. If we shut those curtains I'm just saying have you asked Safety Works, have you gone that far? Are you saying he's going to I don't want to buy these things and say, "Well, geez, that that isn't enough. You can't wash here." I mean to me that would really irritate me. Well,

I mean I we had a wash bay where I was. It was just it's a curtain. They put brackets in the ceiling and then there's a suspended Well, we were just talking about safety wise. That's why I was just You just brought up safety and I'm I'm asking if you you're going to have I think you're going to have some training there come February, right?

Yeah. Well, if that curtain is shut, the water can't get that's what it's designed for. So, so you can ask them on and I don't know that they'll have an answer. That might be one of those things where if they don't see it, they don't I don't know if that's actually in a box they check. But uh if if it's completely blocked off, I can't see where it would uh there'll be no water getting to it.

Like for example, we were going to wash trucks inside a couple weeks ago and I said, I don't think so. There's a welding there's a welding club. I'm going to go right back to what I said. The guys have been doing it for years where you got there. No problem. I think it's just a lot of money to

I think it's worth asking the question because I I know Mike's been doing it in there but I know the diff the difference between a private contractor and the municipality is for whatever reason it's just the way it is but

works has already come in right I at least ask the question because in the event that you can use those but that ain't going to be sufficient then this is not going to help you. Yeah. But that's so it's worth just asking a question too.

Yeah. The question is going to come up and then we at least we'll have an answer. Yeah. I just, you know, I I I can't see how they're going to spray those trucks without hitting water on those walls and hitting electrical. And we could do two at once instead of uh maybe he brought in one truck at a time. And

yeah, I don't see you guys doing two to tell you the truth. You got two pressure washers. You got two. You got two steam cleaners over there. I didn't know about. We use a hose on one while the other one's hosing one while the other one's But we don't use the pressure washer. Actually,

tell them to put the back to the wall. They won't let it hit the wall. We don't use the pressure washer. Actually, we use dresser out. Cuz with salt, I think it's I think it's worth asking the question. Yeah, we've come I'm not opposed to it yet, but I think it's worth asking.

With salt, we found that you don't want to use pressure washer because it's not pressure. You want with salt, it's volume of water. You want to dissolve the salt. So, we find the just the regular hoses work better. Um, pressure wash off the outside of the truck, but once you get up in the frames and stuff, we want that volume of water to dissolve the salt.

Right. with a pressure wash. Pressure washer you get a very small amount of water but high pressure and it's not what you want when you're doing salt. Yep, I understand. Okay. So, um but that's at least as that question. It's well worth asking.

Y have all the other budget lines been gone over once then? Now, since this was the last one. Okay. So, I have We're not done with mine though. Oh, except for donations. Sorry. Okay. Okay. So, thank you. Uh yeah, you still have your road projects. Yes.

Yeah. Should have done a page break at the beginning of that. Now we got on two different pages. Um, So, Shiloh, Dave Davis on the first uh on the page before and Shiloh. Bowie Hill. And I added Bowie Hill today because I just I don't I don't I'm just throwing it out there because our plows are getting stuck in the road. So, um I uh

Yeah. I mean, I struggle with the balance I of bringing a bond every year. I mean, yes, we have roads to do, but there's a part of me that would like to say, "Okay, we did this big bond. Now, let's do like the Shimon overlay and and do some sort of in-house smaller projects and and then maybe bond something next year." But I understand that the delay, it's just it's a tough

Well, tough cell. It's a tough cell. I mean, we got to get we got to get there. Right there. Absolutely. And uh well, it's it's you pick you pick the worst one. I guess I don't really want to see another bond right now, but the town's people may say, "Yeah, we need to do it." So, we just pick one. Pick whichever you think's best.

I mean, what you have here is two almost 2.5 million. All right. Um, now talking [snorts] earlier, you you were saying this is if the contractor does these prices are if the contractor does everything. Yep. Yeah. So, we just did Brown Road in Pole and it was uh 100 bucks a foot. Well, we what we did in Durham where we did most of the work was $50 $55 a foot.

I haven't seen that yet from you. So, I'm still waiting from that. You haven't gave me I asked you for quite a few times now and you you haven't gave me the spreadsheet to prove that. Back that up. Second budget season. Well, I can tell you that what we just spent uh 100 bucks a foot in panel is what we just

And I don't know how much spend I mean you said you spent 50 rough roughly $55 a foot in contractor spending for our Yes. Right. Well, total I mean that's including that's including the our labor, our any Well, no. Our equipment, our truck, our everything.

Right. Right. That just covers flagging. I think you're going to find it's going to be more. No. Uh so $55 well 1 point well take well it's 19,700 ft we did. Yeah. Take um 1.1 million divide by 19,700 ft and gives you your $55 a foot.

Okay. So that's $55 a foot for I mean I I understand that you know that $55 a foot is 1.1 million. So 45 to get up to the $100 of for you you'd be spending $45 more and so you're talking about another $800,000. I mean you can tell from our budget that we didn't spend $800,000 on it but it would be good to see those I mean I actually agree with Mike on this because this would be a good thing to show to the town.

Mark this down. He's agreeing with me on this one a little bit. This one? No. No. It would be a good You should see the number. This is something the town is looking for. You um okay, where's our return in our investment? We can say, okay, if we add in what the cost it was to do the ditching, um our our people to do the ditching, um the the wear on the equipment and so on, add that in and can show them that it cost us $70 a foot or whatever. This is exactly what the town needs to see. Y

and um I don't I mean and this ain't even done yet. I ditch and demo. You have to look at at I mean there's two different there's efficacy and there's cash flow because the other piece of that is is just straight up cash flow. If we've got a $100 a square foot going out to a third party contractor plus

$300,000 going out to uh pay our people that are ditching or doing something else that's just in terms of yes, there's more work being done, but there are also more dollars going out the door every day. So, it's it's the cash flow balance as well.

I mean, agreed. I agree. If I I don't know what it would take if do you I mean can you is there a way that you can look at the manh hours that we put on this quickly? I have them every day. I have I have I have them. I put them away and

can you get this to us before the before we meet with the budget committee? When are you meeting? Uh beginning of February. Yeah. Because I mean this is I I mean I I've been at this for I know I know he's asked I asked for this thing for months and very patient about it.

This is this is what we need to show the T cuz there are there there are people in town that want to know is this really helping us? And this is perfect time because you can say you already where you're doing two towns and you did one project one way and another project another way. This is a perfect way to um to show it,

right? I just I want everything on that paper. I can I can tell you right away that we didn't spend $800,000 out of our budget on those roads. But we need to we we need to show it. Ain't done yet either, though. Remember that the ditching ain't completed yet. So, he's going to have to estimate how much it's going to cost him to finish those ditching [laughter]

to figure out how much that road actually cost. Well, it'll all be in that 1.1 million. It'll be covered anyway. Well, we not no because we we spent some of we we we had some of our own employees working on that and so on and that that amount actually has

right but that's not getting segregated and being paid out of the bond versus the operating budget I think is but we're paying them anyway. to this is where we get into No, no, we're paying them anyway, but but we need if we This is if we can show that this is this is what it cost us.

Mhm. If you hired it out, if if we hired it out, it cost us $100 a foot. This one here, we did $55 a foot, but we we did some of some of the our own prep work on it. So you got to add that on top of the $55 to So you're comparing.

So you're comparing it. So you're comparing exactly what it costs. Yes, we're already paying them, but this is why we were paying them, why we decided to do that. Another 45 was actually only 35 or 20 or whatever. And I think one of the points that that Mike has has been trying to make all along is would it be more costefficient to to have since we're paying those people anyway to have them ditching on the other end of town or or whatever and having

a a preventive work. I mean, if if we came out that we found it was, you know, $95 a foot for us to do it, $100 a foot for the contractor to do it, our time would probably be better spent uh working on other parts of the town.

Um, if we find that there that it's $65 a foot versus $100 a foot, then might actually already might actually show that hey, if we hire one more person and we can get a little bit more done, uh, you know, something like that.

Again, it goes to that cash flow where our our out ofpocket Yeah. is less if we're paying our own guys. We Yes, we'd be paying them because we'd be paying them anyway. Yes. Work may get done townwide more slowly, but our actual bottom line, we would have had to bond

more money. Yeah. to have paid to or done less less road we had. We don't we don't know yet till we get those figures. But yes, we I mean we we need some we need to see that. I mean and I know you're not going to get it exact to the dollar, but we need to see okay, we spent this many manh hours on it at this much and this is the equipment time that we put into it. Um it's

and and whatever materials we'd used, diesel or everything. You know, um when you figure out equipment, manh hours, you got to figure out what we give for benefits. You got to figure all that into the to the to the You just can't use our hourly rate. You got to have what we use for benefits for that one person. You you got to break it down because that's tell you what that's what Sar Brothers does. They just don't let a guy

Oh, I I I agree. And um absolutely you do to compare apples to apples and that wasn't the point. And the point I was trying to make was a was back to what I said before was cash flow. We we are only paying interest on a million dollars to do x number of miles of road versus paying what $55

per square foot was what we're contracting at what we're borrowing. Right? So in terms of of what we're paying an interest rate what we get done. So, in the long run, it actually cost us cost us a bit more. Well, if we were paying interest on $100 a square foot, it that would be an additional cost as well.

But I mean, I I would really I honestly I would really like to see this because you are at I if it's what I think it is, just knowing what we're what we're paying and things like that, this is justifying your department. Mhm.

And um I think we are two and a half, three years into the department. I think it's time that we need to that we that we show them that we show them that this is that we justify it. It was brought up on the floor last year. So

yeah, I think if you just took that if you just took that uh to 155, it shows that we've just saved over a million dollars right there. I mean just at one time Sean had and I know he had done it with Durham because we didn't have a crew at the time but he took a project or two projects that he done over [clears throat] there in Po and compared that's what he did he compared apples to apples and this is what it cost when we summed it out to a contractor so much a foot or whatever it was whether it was visiting and this is what it cost us when we did it in house so much a foot and and at that time the numbers were far enough apart so it is easy to justify. So I mean things do change but so

please get that to me. I'm itching to look at it and just study it. So [snorts] So the only other budget line we haven't done is donations donations. So are we done with Kelvin? Is it you got any reports? Well, what is our

we don't know yet on those. Okay. So don't know see them. We don't know what to do. We don't know what to do with them right now. Yeah. And we need them. I mean, before we before we forward this to the budget committee, if we're going to be asking for another bond, I' like we kind of need to see

I mean, I' I'd love to see the rest of Davis Road be done and have that whole runaround Davis Road piece and I know Bowie Hill is killing the plow trucks, but I also feel for the other end of town that hasn't seen any Shiloh Road and Meadow Road and Plumber Mill Road, Old Brunswick Road. I mean, they're all in very in very poor shape, too.

Yeah. So, I just I don't know. And I mean, and you've mentioned that we have a bunch of the subdivision roads that are in pretty poor shape. Yeah. So, it's just I don't know. I mean, we're just so far behind that if we don't get a jump start here somehow. We're um you know, if you maybe if you skipped one year, um then

we could cut that $100 because we could we would then be able to finish up ditching what we've already got and then we would be able to go in and do the ditching the following year ourselves and do another $55 foot instead of 100. Maybe even maybe even uh on the next one plan for two plan for two years and bond it. So you're only going for one bond because a bond every year is is a killer.

Well, we're going to be looking at another truck next year. It sounds like it's just just a and that's exactly why I say just keep the 100,000 in there and then the truck's taken truck's taken care of and we don't have Yeah,

I guess I would put it this way. Those roads are already destroyed. So it's not like if we don't do it this year, they're going to be destroyed. They're already destroyed. The the issue is is can the people want to wait?

Yeah, I know. The public is I mean now we we we did not have anything like last year where the the pe the show people from the road show up. I I don't think we're that far away from that. No, I've I've gotten email inquiries on Meadow Road. Yeah.

And people understand that I got phone calls. It's not the most trafficked road in town and I need I understand the need to focus on but they pay taxes like everybody else. Exactly. I and I Davis Road is going to be the next road that

there's a house development down there on that road too. You know, and then you're going to have the same argument of well why are we spending this money over here and we're not fixing the roads that are already, you know, you don't have

because we're trying to keep them from ending up like that road. But Exactly. Um, so if we need like, you know, our fairy godmother to give [laughter] us $10 million. What I what I will tell you is that by waiting a year, we would be able to go in and do much of the work ourselves like we did on this project. We couldn't do it this year because we just we stretched too thin. We don't have the manpower though. So by waiting a year, you actually save end up saving another million bucks or so. And the other thing about getting caught up on some of the ditching is at least my understanding of it is that's a critical element of saving our roads and that's something that we can do with the equipment and the

trucks that we have. And I I think we could actually if if we wait a year, I think we can sell the uh additional budget money better that um we're we're say we're waiting one more year and we will have a significant bond put to put out next year and but we we're wanting to do more catchup on regular maintenance too. And I think you I think we could sell that,

right? We don't want to be getting out beyond ourselves. Um [clears throat] the uh the the re I mean we've been we were we had been talking about runaround Pond Road for six years at least. It was since I got on the board. We were we were talking about

and desperate and and it uh when I got on the board it needed to be done and we we know we know we we and we did the public works and we pushed it off and pushed it off and that and that's why we the residents did what they did what they did last year. I don't blame them.

Yeah. I Davis Road I fully expect that we will see something that Yes. um Davis Road, Shival Road. Uh yeah, that we we will probably be hearing more about it if we don't put something out this year. Um I I think we should present this to the budget committee.

That this is this is what we're looking at. Um but I don't know that we I don't know that we want to put it out or not. But well, I think you need get a feel of what the budget committee feels. You need to explain that if we do it this year, it's going to cost this. If we wait a year, we can cut that number significantly.

Okay. So, so you don't believe that we can do it this year at a lower cost. We don't have the manpower. We don't have the manpower to do it. Okay. We're still finishing up last year's project and we have other stuff we could

in touch quick again finishing that last two years project. Get back to that. We got So, I think Yeah, but I guess that's kind of my sense too is that we've got plenty of work to keep our crew busy on on maintenance. Yeah. Yeah. So I think

so if you if you get us that get us those numbers that we asked for, we can say by waiting one more year, we should be able to save we should be able to save this amount off this $2.5 million. Um and put we'd be putting out a bond for whatever 1.5 one point you know instead of 2.5. If you can get those, if you can get us accurate or

is is there a way we could put out there for town meeting uh a vote that says do you want to do it in 2017 for x amount of dollars or do it in 2018 for x amount of dollars? Not really. So, if we were to put it out there, if we were decide to put it out there this year, we would actually have to we would have to word it. Um, do you do you approve a bond for this amount of money um to do the you know, to do what to do whatever. I mean, you can certainly get up and speak to the

your budget and [clears throat] why you are recommending what you're we could put that out there and and not recommend it and and we could say why we don't recommend it, but that would give the town's people the opportunity. The question is is and that's why I want to bring this before the budget committee. Is there any sense in in doing that and spending 45 minutes to an hour talking about it on town floor and you know I don't know I'm not going to be there so I don't know I I honestly

just wonder if you could give people the option. Yeah. Yeah. I mean we we can it is it is a possibility. we we did something like that last year, but um and but I think that's kind of why I'd like to hear what the budget committee thinks on it too. I um I personally I think that it makes sense if if we can show the figures that we we save uh 20 30% by doing it ourselves. If we can show that I think then we can say it makes sense to hold off. If if the figures show that we don't save that much, then

it doesn't make sense necessarily to hold off. Okay. Yeah. So, I'll get to those numbers. Thank you. You said you wanted them in budget season. So, it is budget season. It is budget season. January 4th. I mean, the selectmen are almost done. I mean, we we need to finish up the budget

stuff next week. Speaking of which, when I know I know Tuesday. No. Well, Tuesday I I would strongly suggest against that because of the uh comprehensive Monday would be what I would suggest and then if we need another day we can figure out Monday.

Yeah. Okay. So 6:30 six uh I'd say I'd be fine with six. Uh yeah. Can you do Monday? Um I think so. I didn't bring my calendar with me but I don't Okay. Anticipate a problem. We like to go over this with uh the donations. Yeah, we do that when we do the

do that next week. Yeah, that that's not All right, sounds good. So, when do you want to see me again? Um, and can you cuz we don't know exactly when we're going to hit each department. So, I think if we ask if the chief can be here too. I don't know you. We may be able to get through most of it or we may not be.

So, we'll be meeting with the budget committee Monday. No, we'll be finalizing our We need to finalize our budget. what we're going to present if I hope we can have that uh that sheet that the overall sheet I'm almost done. I just didn't plug in the public works.

So, Monday 6:00 6 o'clock Monday six o'clock Monday. Got it. All right. Um they do your um Yeah, I put that away. Oh, yeah. We got to sign something here, too. Yeah. All right. So, regular select meetings will be held here Tuesday, February 7th at uh 6:30 p.m. and Tuesday, February 21st at 6:30 p.m. There will be a budget workshop on Monday, January 30th at 6:00 p.m.

Um, as mentioned before, the comprehensive plan committee is having a meeting at the school looking for public input on Tuesday, January 31st at 6:30 p.m. Nomination papers are um out can be picked up here for selectman positions of three years. um two positions, three budget committee uh positions for three years, one school board committee uh member for is that three years as well?

I think so. Yeah, cuz there's three of them. And now I believe we will be uh one selectman for two years. One year for one selectman for one year. Um do we have the date of when they need to be back? February 14th or is it the 14th or 15th?

14th somewhere. We'll say 14th just to be safe. Okay, that's good. Okay, I will J. Yes, there was a significant item here I forgot to go over. We need to go back to Okay. Uh I knew we shouldn't have changed that from red to green. Oh, okay.

What is it? What is it? The first one in the green box. Uh projects that I saw that that panel. And the reason that that's important is because um we've applied for a grant and in the grant I had to show that we have put the money aside that we've dedicated the money to to to do our portion of the project. Worst case scenario is if we were approved we could always just not accept it and not do it. a kind of a

sir sticky situation in that um the two crossings are a couple hundred thousand a piece [clears throat] if we get the grant to the engineer today he said the odds chances of getting both of them are nil to none so he said just figure 100,000 for your portion of one of the crossings

I said well uh so here's the thing if I don't put it in there. So, what it could do is if we if we put it in there and we don't get the grant, I could then look at replacing the culverts with what's there instead of doing the smart stream crossing and and I could probably do that for somewhere in the neighborhood of 120.

Okay, so I would take that money and do both crossings. I mean I I'm leaving up to you as how you want to could we also do it as a separate warrant article and have it as a bond that is approved and if we get the grant then we can pursue the bond.

Well my my suggestion would be maybe even take where this is one of those we may or may not do it if we take it from the capital capital uh and then back fill and take because we have we have it in there we take it from that if we use it. Okay, we we've got that done. If we don't, it will just go back in there and can be used again.

Right. If we've got the money in the capital, does that have to go to town meeting or? Yes. Yes, we have we have to appropriate it from there. Put that on. It will have to be a bond. Uh, not a bond, it will have to be a warrant item,

right? So, should I go for 120 in case I have to in case I don't get the grant? Oh, you're just going to set it up. So, if we don't get the grant, you don't Well, well, we we can go for kind of an emergency. We can go for do the 120.

We can do 120. Yeah. It'll go back anyway. That way it'll either go back or you'll do it or Yeah. Okay. Or if and if you get it and you only have to use 100 the 20 will go back. So Okay. All right. Okay. Uh is that a motion? Second.

All in favor?