TranscriptSelect Board Meeting ~ December 17, 2024

being here tonight for the December 17th select board meeting at our schedule time of 5:30 we have a quorum so I'm going to begin the meeting here at 5:30 with the pledge of States of America and to the republ for it stands one nation God indivisible

with liy and justice for here and uh oh I like that I I don't like having to look at myself the whole meeting so I realize what I'm subjecting the rest of you to now so um well we'll get started everyone's here tonight uh as always uh we'll start off amendments to agenda does anyone have any

okay seeing none public comment do we have any public business we don't have anything in Old agenda awesome um new business Jerry uh select board approval of junkyard permits purpose but it's a very festive color scheme with the shirt and the hat so when I watched the uh video of

last week's meeting I realized that I did not portray accurately to Jerry what needed to be done so I do not have the authority to approve anything okay with as far as Jun cars go okay as far as mobile home parks I do have the authority so they're a little was quite different um so what I've done with the junkyards two people have applied to renew their license and I'll explain the process and I do have a paper uh a a handout from the law um it's a mainstate law that we have to follow for that um so what I've done is uh I TR I've tried to make it so that they get their information back to me and their applications prior to October 1st their license expires October 1st mhm so so next year we should really aim to have a hearing prior to October 1st so I've asked them to get me all their information uh in fact in the application that I've created it does specify uh submit completed application prior to having your

junkyard inspected by the code officer but not later than September 1st MH so that did not happen this year um but hopefully next year it will because yes is what you just spoke about what's in front of me what you just said about that that is that in front of me or is their applications you have their applications yeah but the thing that you just said about the deadline is that no this isn't this is this is a new this is a revised application so we're working on that so the file system at the Town Office isn't that great um so to find anything that's historic is very difficult anyway so I think that the the two people that are renewing understand the process I believe next year I hope that they have it to be before September 1st so we can do it timely MH uh they want it timely um so anyway uh I have gone to each of the two and inspected them based on the parameters in the application in the law and they do

comply with that so I approve of their operation as far as the state law goes I have no objections to either of those properties um I didn't make note of some things one of them have has a a front fence that is getting a little dilapidated I said another year you know next year you want to keep that in mind you need to keep that fence in intact uh and I had talked to a previous uh one of the other applicants uh previously this year and said your your stuff is encroaching on the road and you need to pull it back or Shield it and they did that before I came to inspect so perfect um do you do you guys want these this is a a snippet of what yeah if you can just have Jerry send us a copy of that y and and we can link it into the meeting notes please Y and these are these are highlighted so it just talks about the um that you guys issue the permit um you can do it through me but you guys have to vote on um and um date

of approval is October 1st and it does state that public hearing is optional for renewals if you want one you can have one if you don't want one you don't have to have one um so uh that being said uh two applications I I approve they've uh MH they've done what they need to do to have a legal junkyard in Durham um so it's really up to you to uh issue or not issue their license you have any questions about either property any questions for Allan um I like that you're building in a September 1st deadline I think future Boards iterations of the board may want a public hearing so if the those applications are in September 1st we can just have on our rolling schedule 2 weeks later would be a hearing and Jerry said that you guys kind of want one this year but we're going to plan on we're a little yeah a little behind on this which is you know one thing um but so

any questions for Allan so far or any questions about either one of these applications Alan are these the only two junkyards in Barham these are the only two licensed junkyards in Barham just a different the abuts were notified and no complaints the abuts were all notified and I didn't receive any calls that they didn't receive any calls so I I'd move that we approve the two junkyard permits retroactive to October 1st 2024 for onee period do I have a second I'll second all right any additional discussion on the

the motion to approve the junkyard permits retroactive to October 1st 2024 any opposition seeing none and it passes unanimously okay awesome Jer and I had a brief discussion about some of the places in Durham that may not be licensed and I have note of several of them M um and the process for that is I

would pay them a visit the state law actually stipulates what a junkyard is and we have several that meet that definition and are not licensed um so we could definitely give them I could give them a notice of violation but right now that's the only thing that I can do so I can give them a notice of violation that's the date that they've been notified that they're in violation of the ordinance and then it's really up to the select board to take it from there um there are other towns and other um policies and ordinances where the code enforcement officer does have authority to issue violations and fines and uh I've given you a proposed uh um a proposed copy of that which you guys can take and just look at for later date uh and I have run that by our attorney don't worry I didn't do it on the town's dime it was prior to me coming here so we discussed that that in fact that specific ordinance uh and she approves

of it um but it's uh it's a violation thing very quick violation that I can present MH yes yeah is that only in terms of a junkyard or is that that's regarding every thank you any violation happens in the town um I you can give me the authority to issue a violation and that comes with a fine thank you um and just a basic um what I had run by Kristen uh previously is we had a step system in Mechanic Falls when I was there and she said that's not serious a big fine right off the bat $300 you're violating the ordination uh the our law and you shouldn't be doing that I just generally want people to comply so I'll say you've got a week coming back in a week if if you if you don't have this taken care of I'm going to issue you a violation so I would always do that um but when you issue a violation right off the bat that has money associated with it they don't like that and then after that $100 a day

immediately MH has a big impact and it makes people change so this seems thank you for this it seems like we have two parts here one part is you know of some existing uh areas that meet the criteria to being a junkyard that are operating without a permit secondly you have some proposed language that we could utilize to empower you to issue fees um on that

first issue is there anything you need from us Direction wise or to Jerry Direction wise to empower you to list give that notice of violation no okay um I have several picked out that definitely fall under the category of and to do that the only problem is time to do that so that is outside of my regular stuff just to get my regular stuff done um you guys pay me for 34 hours a week I work at least 40 hours a week and and I don't get everything done it's hard to get everything done yeah so I'm doing the best I can when I I'm going to get on junk yards I'm going to get on gravel pits when I can get there that's very difficult well to me the junkyard issue is a big one because there's known likely known violations and so if if up to you all to figure out time taking things off the plate to fit that on the plate but that's something that is important to me um especially knowing that we just two people are going

through and following all the rules it it kind of rubs me the wrong way when people people aren't so I can't speak for the rest of the board though so but great um if you could just have Jerry or someone send us those and we can put those documents on our Horizon that would be awesome you just want them I can get electronic cop electronic would be good cuz we can link them to the uh meeting minutes as well I can read them as I go thank you thank you Alan thank you thank you Alan okay happy holidays Jerry did you have anything you want to add on any of that no thank you think you did a good job explaining it yeah I was a little shocked when I found we only had two applicants for junkyards but anyways all righty so our next order of business tonight is just initial discussions around the 2025 budget and so um I wanted to start this

and I invited the uh the budget committee and I know some of them are watching from afar and it's also being recorded um and we have a couple members present so the goal here was just to make sure everyone who is paying attention to the budget has the opportunity to see the process as it begins um we've got some supplemental information submitted here from Jerry as well but realistically the big goal for me tonight is for us as a select for to kind of vote on some or or make some suggestions to the town manager as the town manager prepares our budget so I want to make sure everyone knows that the budget that's prepared by the town manager is a reflection of what the select board wants a accomplished in the next year and we just need to give the the select board who can then give uh uh some dire the the town manager some direction on the budget priorities or goals and objectives that can then make

it down to department heads and things like that so you know I want to start off by opening the discussion around budget priorities I have some notes Here of things that came to my mind so we have a lot of moving Parts this year switching over to an 18 month budget switching over to a fiscal year and so in my mind the less we do new the the better because it can help keep things simple with that being said I would like to see us um increase our admin capacity to

2024 2020 levels when we used to have four people working behind the uh the counter right now we have three and so I'd like to see that brought to 2020 levels to provide the capacity we need to deliver what expected from our town staff right now to the community I think that we've seen some some areas where we think we could um better serve the town if we brought that back up to the previous levels the other thing that I'm interested in uh in in U is um

discussing um our our ad our um Personnel line and I'm interested in talking about supporting a uh compensation adjustment that aligns with the cost of living and with that's commerate with roles and responsibilities and so to me those are the two things that I think are important but I think that from there on out nothing new is a really um good

approach to take because we've got a lot of moving parts so does anyone else have anything they want to add to that list before we discuss those two things that I am uh I'm going to make a motion that we direct the town manager to um can I can

I just pause for one second you just asked that question really fast and I didn't really have time to process and think about what I wanted to say I I agree with this position but at the same time I it's hard for me to say that in a concrete way without hearing from the

fire chief the town manager and the road Comm if there's like something that they need to tell us that we don't know yet like we like I recognize the things that we know about but if there's something that's outlying that we don't know about yeah I feel like I need to know that before I can definitively say do you do you I understand I understand what you're saying um in terms of new requests though or or changing things to add things new I think that is a I personally feel it comes from us to say hey we need this new initiative pursued but is if are are you saying that you want to hear from others to ask if there's anything that they want okay so thank you for clarifying that so in terms of like if if Chief needed equipment right that that's not necessarily something new that falls under his like operating budget and then we have that conversation you're saying like we're not suggesting funding a transfer

station we're not suggesting funding a new service you're okay that's my thought process is that as they go through the process C of creating their budgets they know from us or creating the budget for us to re review they know from us that this is what the select board wants a baseline budget that includes these adjustments or the select board wants us to you know build something new which I'm not suggesting we do want that but it gives them an idea so they because the way I think about it is that policy's coming down from us as to what the goals and objectives are of the community and they need to build a budget that reflects our policy objectives and they can't do that if they don't know what our policy objectives are so so 20 sorry sorry Josh 2020 levels of Staffing included uh that was five days a week yeah and and and plus the extended hours that we currently have just to clarify that yeah

I'm all for it I just want to see what we're what we're thinking of throwing Saturday which I'm not against either yeah go ahead J four days a week four days four days a week okay and and would we to the select FL would be willing to add the fifth day I mean that's that's you know an upper for Jerry and the staff but I mean I think it's something we should consider something we can discuss I know we've heard from folks that you know it's not enough with just the four days so I agree with the increasing of Staff during the current four days and I also agree with adding a fifth day with more staff if we if if that's really desired and something that it would be a goal I I would think as as we get you know again back to you know Staffing it back to you know so it's open at least five days a week if not five and a half days a week Josh did you have something yeah I just I I I agree that this is stuff that

we need to look at that we need to try to keep a uh a budget that's going to stay relatively yeah at the same rates because thing other things are changing that we have zero control over at the same time though this is non-binding and if something comes up it could be present Ed yeah I I don't want to cut off ideas that may benefit the town is what I'm absolutely yeah and that was my goal is that we give some direction tonight then Jerry brings a budget that's reflective of the direction that we have given him and if we don't like the looks of that we start making reductions increases keep it the same and so that's why I think that this is a good opportunity for Jerry to get direction from us as opposed to to just saying I attend your meetings I'm guessing this is what you all want and that I just it's not clear communication so um I think that's a good idea I think we need to watch additional money that we spend over and

above previous budgets we need to make sure has a significant benefit for the town's people yeah um and so if we're going to raise the budget um you know and and I think having that extra person in the office is something that uh will free up some of Jerry's time for him to do some of the things that we may have been asking him to do that he hasn't had a chance so like Allan said um but also make sure that you know the staff can do training take time off and there's that level of service resources uh because that level of service is something that people have said they want more of so yeah you know I I think that's a good idea but I don't I I don't want new big things but I also don't want to cut them off if it's going to come at a benefit for the town I agree so de did you have something you want no so I'm going to make a motion that we direct the town manager to explore increasing admin capacity to 2020 levels

um and bringing four people behind the counter again that's my motion do I have a so Jessica you getting this motion all right so in terms of discussion yeah Josh I think think your point is what we've seen from evaluating over the last year I think that we're identifying some some spaces where new tasks have been identified that haven't been done previously under um previous um um

administrations in there and under previous uh staff and so I think a lot of those that have been brought to us are things that are actually could be income generating you know finding the uh rectifying back taxes which hasn't been done um and uh handling training

which can help or establishing a training program which can increase efficiency and get more work done and so the reason I'm interested in a position like this is I I bet that there is a way to add this uh extra capacity and actually see the revenues generated Eclipse that of what the cap extra capacity cost just on uh back tax collection Alone um and so I want to empower Our Town manager to work at top of license or work on Town manager things as opposed to work on um things that are are more aligned with what you would expect with most other administrative roles within a town office and so I think that this gives us that opportunity if we uh approve a position or at least hear what a position like this would cost and do for our to to our budget so and likely increase efficiency at the department head level because any admin tasks that you guys are doing could be moved into that I have a clarifying question is it

four full-time equivalents meaning four people at 40 hours per week 37 and a half or what we have as a full-time would be 37 and a half yeah and so and then I think too that that it there's the opportunity there to improve the uh the workflow behind the counter because right now I know that a lot of Staff working behind the counter if someone comes in and needs um to register a snowmobile or do something else a tasks that they're working on have to be stopped and then they have to go address the counter help the person come back and pick up their task where they just left so if we have some capacity there I'm hoping that it can help have a better uh experience for the people in the town who are going to the town office for these uh these tasks that they need to accomplish so Joe so it's is it is it actually bumping it to four or four and a half it would bring it to four people at at 37.5 hours and so I think that would still

put us in a 4 day open schedule but it would potentially um get bring us to 9 hours or on two of those days maybe 9 and a half on two others to give a little bit of a um later opening on at least one of those days uh but I think that this is a good place to start and see what what Jerry can pull together and what the cost would be and if we think that that's not enough we can we can bump it up bump it up if we think it's too much we need to go uh back because at least I think the board in general is wants to keep this budget as as flat as possible okay Heather um I would just like to also throw out the idea that

perhaps how well things worked out with Mark as a contractor that if they're that just to consider that in terms of um in terms of help like once you nail down what those tasks are that really looking to have accomplished is that something that could be accomplished by a thre Monon or six-month contract with someone coming in or is that something that you know anyway I just want you to entertain that idea because that did work out really well with Mark and maybe there's the capacity for that to work this way again okay do we have any other discussion on on this motion so I'm assuming Mark's still still here during all this yeah we yeah we have them budgeted for accounting services so right okay good so that so it really doesn't include Mark as far as his Manning plan no no and I was say I was suggesting akin to like the role that Mark provided but not as a staff person in it sounds like what you're saying is

identify opportunities where a contract could which is a little separate from the motion we have right now so I want to button this up um so we have a we have someone that does accounts payable right Mark does everything else as far as the finances go so that gets taken care of so if somebody's out sick or somebody wants to go to training we have two windows that leaves two people at the window no one to answer the phone right yeah so if you don't want the phone answer because we're too busy out the window I mean this just sort of like snowballs into this and then they get behind they're not meeting deadlines they're not meeting timelines they're making m cuz they hurrying it's I feel bad for the staff yeah and I I I think to that point you know I just went through this exercise in my personal life my personal role where I uh laid out the amount of work I have to do in a in a quarter and if if it adds up to 65

days you're good well then you realize that 65 days doesn't include any vacation you might take any sick time you might take so you need to build in roughly 5 to 6 days a quarter that someone is might be on on vacation which they're entitled to might have an illness which they need to address and right now we're in a capacity where when someone's out things don't get done and so this I think could help build us a little bit of coverage and I know that we hear a lot that people expect a lot of services out of our town office and this is our way to say all right we're going to try to make that happen for you we're hearing you loud and clear let's let's provide a solution um so again this vote is not to lock anything in as guaranteed this is to just ask the town manager to budget for for this so we can see what that what implication that would have on our budget and then we will have plenty of opportunity to

remove that or modify that based off of what the fiscal uh note is so do I have any other discussion on this all in favor all opposed seeing none passes unanimously um the only other thing I wanted to discuss is uh uh some direction regarding

um uh the Personnel line for um salary I think cost of living adjustments are important for staff because it's uh just matches inflation and so I'm going to make a motion that we asked Jerry to build into his budget um compensation adjustment that reflects cost of living uh adjustment and is commerate with roles and responsibilities do I have a second Second Joe so motion by Joe second by Joe different Joe's so any other any discussion on this so in my mind it's just a way that we help make sure that people are compensated in uh parallel to what they were compensated with the the year before adjusting for inflation is pretty standard across most businesses um in in good economic times and I think that it would be appropriate for us to at least start with that as the conversation point for when you bring your first draft of the budget again like everything else we're talking about tonight that will

um be something that we can then work off of next next time when we see the budget but I want to give you some direction on where to begin if we don't like that and we think it needs to be higher we can have that conversation again later but we need someplace to start Josh uh I I'm okay I mean

understand understand that this is you know what we want to see so we can see an overall budget when it comes in I don't have a problem with this but I would like to see different or not necessar see different numbers but have you prepared with different numbers what what the cost of each is so if you start out at 4% I'd want to know you know three and a half three 2 and A2 so that um when we're looking at it we can ask you you know what is this what what is this going to equal and figure that out does that make sense um just because uh

you know we I think if memory serves we we were generous last year M um you know there are other expenses coming up this year the school County budgets have gone up um we one of the things you know we hopefully we'll look into is different ways to raise revenue but right now it's you know we don't have those commercial opportunities other communities in this area do um and so I want to you know yeah I want to see the numbers basically you know I don't putting in what you present us is one thing but I want to know what other numbers would be so that we can sort of plug and play if that makes sense yes do you have a range because the way the budget workbook is I'll put each range in so I'll be delivering you if you have three different numbers I'm going to bring you three different workbooks I mean I I will be honest my range would depend on what the overall budget looks like so without seeing what it looks

like so I would I would say for me I you know if you're saying 3 and a half% I'd go down one up you know you know it it depends for me if we're aligning with Cola for 2025 it's 2 and a half% where do he getting where you getting that number um cost of living adjustment Cola information SSA yeah 2025 I think MMA puts us that's Social Security I think MMA has different guidance on so as the Northeast super price index is really what you want to look at and I one thing I was going to add is that we did we want to pick a upper limit for the overall budget which then would give everybody some latitude

and how different things come in because you know you could you could increase I'll say the the compensation for folks a little bit more if you were say gonna be cutting somewhere else but if you had an overall goal it might be another thing on your on your on your list there Joe if the overall goal is you know say 5% over the next year and then 5% on top

of that for the 18 month right so then you you'd create an upper limit in the aggregate so then Jerry's way to to flex some things in between I understand what you're saying and that's why my motion was to support a compensation adjustment aligned with inflation and commerate with roles and responsibilities so Jerry can do I don't want to do that math for but I understand what you're saying if if a big budget line comes down 5% the actual dollars available to move a smaller budget line up could be 6% and I get what you're saying yeah that's what I'm getting my hope is just with this motion is to just say right off the bat we want to see my motion is and the discussion has gone a little bit different ways but my motion is for us to say in this first draft of a budget please bring forward at least a Cola with and then uh a cost of living adjustment and then uh consideration for roles and responsibilities and then you

can you can bring us forward that based off of what you see in your budget and that's and and from there we'll we'll make an adjustment I understand what you're saying about just saying no increase over this percentage of total budget but I'd like to just stick my motion is just to stick on this person no I get with the motion I just wanted to see if we were going to go the next step can I respond to that just I I person I mean maybe I'm the only one I I want to see a budget with what the department heads want and then we make the tough decisions impairing it down and so that if something happens during the next year or 18 months uh and you know it comes back well they wanted it well it's us we couldn't afford it and so I'd rather us make the decision as to you know we get the the hopes and then we right you know Dash them and hopefully not bring tears SE separate I think that's a separate discussion than

what we have for a motion here about the salary adjustment so um do we have any more discussion on the motion which is support a compensation adjustment that aligns with cost of living adjustment and commensurate with roles and

conversation do I have a vote any for on the motion all in favor in favor any opposition say none okay to your point Josh now this is I have nothing else that I wanted to bring up on I have one thing but anyways is there something else either one of you cuz in that discussion we kind of ranged a little bit so I want to make sure we have the opportunity to give some direction here so my expectation is that we're getting a budget with here's what we're here's what we want here's why we want it here's how the benefit to the town it it's sort of like the CIP you know here's what we want yeah the wish uh and we're pairing it down because yeah the decision should rest on our shoulders um and so my thought on that is I feel like as the policy makers um we we kind of need to start this conversation up with some some direction of hey this is we're have like

my advice here is we have a lot going on and so I don't want to see a lot new because we're moving to an 18-month budget we're getting ready for a reevaluation and so that's where my thought process is is this year saying these two things and then and and then nothing else but if you're saying you want to make sure a department head can say I want to go above and beyond and after something that's something a discussion we can have well not none of what you we've said or voted on limits anybody right I mean it's I mean what I what I've heard is this is what we want no it does limit people cuz if we we we tell Jerry to come up with four people behind the counter not as many as he

talking so I'm trying to understand what you're saying yeah man uh let me see uh I think they're trying to say the same thing that I was saying is that or was trying to seek Clarity on right is that I don't work at the fire department I don't work at public works I don't work in the town office so if they need something to do their job effectively and they want to put that in the budget at you know for us to see I don't want to I don't want them to think that they can't ask for what they need to effectively operate their their um Department right no new initiatives okay

with the caveat that if they find that something is necessary for them to efficiently run their Department that that that's I think you're I'm trying to think I'm trying to flush out if we're all saying the same thing you're saying transfer station don't I think we're saying the same thing CU what I'm saying is besides these two things that are are different bringing the Staffing levels back up to 2020 and then giving some guidance on on salary adjustment the rest of it is bring us a budget that is the cost of doing business as we provide it now and so if the cost of doing business as we provide it now is I need in order to continue to provide the way we're providing I need this new widget or this new piece of equipment that's going to have to that that'll come to us what we're saying is don't come and I'm not suggesting anyone saying this what we're saying is don't come and ask for a new

um fire station or a new Public Works building or or to buy 50 acres to store gravel or something which I'm not saying anyone's asking for I'm just saying my recommendation would be to just bring it bring it in so like in other words you know Calvin page two half miles a road you're all good with that you don't want to pay four you don't want to pay three your 2 and2 miles right now and you have 40 mil a road put your roads on a 20year rotation they're not going to last 20 years so you'll have to keep that in mind as you move on down the road I think that's where we're looking for the department has to have a attitude to say we really need to do four miles this year and and we're doing we're you're proposing an 18-month budget so it should be more than it should be more than right but I understand wait hold on let me clear but in Paving we don't because the second year we don't have to PVE until after

July 1st so we get that but it still needs to be in the budget for that next year let's say so you're still GNA eventually you're going to get there so you that would be the following budget I I get it but it's still going to be uh an increase on the following budget if Calvin like if Calvin comes to me and says well I heard what they said I want to do four miles let's put that in the budget you're going to look that and say now let's get that back down to two and a half miles because it increases the budget I'm going to say that if it keeps up with the schedule that he needs to make sure the roads are operable and uh you know the they're safe to drive on I'm not an expert in that right that's the two of you yeah which is which is why I don't love this exercise we're doing because I want to see the budget I want to see what you're recommending I want to explain to me as to why and I will I will tell you that my goal is to

keep keep it I mean it's going to go up I understand that but I would also like to see some other stuff come down that we can we can do better U but we need to run the town I mean we're not in the business of making money we have to provide a service to the town's people and we need to do that and there are certain things the town office you know there we need we need help there uh the roads need to be kept up the fire department needs to be staffed and have the equipment those are things that need to happen and and our budget this year was tight Wicked tight I mean we've been right down to the wire on the entire budget and you know everything's getting I'll say done but um you know you want that's is kind of where I'm getting at with you know doing an upper limit to make sure there's a enough money in there whether it be reserves recommended reserves from from from the you know from for us to utilize either as the

select board or you so that when not up against the wire we're especially in this 18-month schedule that we're about to jump into we want some extra money in there for things that come out and for for situations that could come up along the way so what I'm hearing is are you asking for this budget to have a contingency line absolutely okay so do you want to make motion we put a contingency wait go ahead so no we don't want to do that cuz that because what that does is that you put it contingency line in your operational budget that raises the the overall so you have fund balance right so you can write a warrant article giving you authorization that way if you need it you have it but you're not raising taxes on your resid note that and we want to bring that up bring that up yeah because we do we do want to do that especially with an 18mon budget AB we need a contingent less than one percentage tip

we were this year yeah we yeah yeah we're Wicked tight I mean it's great it's a great story but it's dangerous because we could run into a just a pure cash flow problem you don't know what's going to happen in 18 months right right no I agree no it's it's it's it's not yeah yeah we we got to really think about this so I I just would like to

frame this a little bit differently because I think you're probably hearing mixed messages right what part of it kind of sounds like give us the whole kitchen sink and then we're going to dial all down so at least from my perspective I want the information that's as close that's as

tight I don't know what the right word is that I want to say right now um to be able to provide this level of service that we we provide now without compromising what you need to be able to effectively run your departments but not necessarily this um you know everything in the kitchen sink because you're hearing that we're going to dial it back I want like your professional opinions of what you need to do your jobs but done in a way that I can trust that that that's what's in front of us and if we have to make Cuts we have to make those hard decisions but does that make sense am I is that clear okay what what I think that we're having a little bit of a disagreement is what I'm saying is don't bring the kitchen sinks in everybody's wish list because this is not the year for it when we're making a switch to a fiscal change F fiscal year so what I'm saying is bring us a solid budget that you need to provide the

current services that we're providing the community right now the only exceptions being increasing some admin capacity and then with the direction that your salary compensation should meet our previous motion I'm saying this is not the year for the kitchen sink because we're going to need to keep it lean and rather than say come to our our committee and give us this massive budget that we might not like I'm saying bring to us what you need to do to do your job if doing your job does not current if you're if you don't feel like your budget is currently doing your job then if you say I think we should be Paving 10 miles a road a year that's what my current job should be bring that to us but I'm saying don't bring us the asking for new bells and whistles and widgets and stuff stuff like that because of the com the the the situation we're in for setting up an 18-month budget that those further discussions

can be hammered out after we get this budget tight it's my my thought process and if we get that tight budget and we go oh this is a such a low change or such a low percentage we want to see more maybe that's when we go there but rather than starting biging starting in I'm saying bring me a budget that's the cost of doing business as we need it done now and then we can go from there so we can choose to add say well we think that you can increase this budget some more I think that that's an important policy decision because in the past I think budgets have been appeared to be this is the department head's budget and this this is the town manager's budget but ultimately this is the select board's budget and we're setting the fiscal policy here and so that's why why I'm saying not to all the bells and whistles in the kitchen sink might not make popular and Jerry has I want Jerry has something to say but I would love to

hear de I'm going to call people we don't we don't Budget on what we want we Budget on what we need so we need to make that clear 100% that's that's how that works you'll never get a budget from us because we you know I'd like to have a new kitchen in the town office because we don't really have one now and we have no place to break or anything we don't we don't we don't do that we we put together a budget that keeps the lights on keeps the building heated keeps making sure we have the paper we need and all that stuff so it's it's not the kitchen sink it's not I'm sorry about the way that that came out I'm trying to articulate what I was saying and it didn't come out well what I'm saying is if we're saying that we need them to come in with as tight a budget to Baseline as possible at the same time then also saying but come to us with your your hopes and your dreams as well those are two different things because

that's not a baseline budget and I'm just suggesting that in this current economic situation this this financial change we're making that this is a year that we should stick closer to Baseline and and typically in most municipalities it's the either the council or the select board that sets the cost of living adjustments I can give you the cost of living adjustments and you can do what you want with them but that's typically how it works actually typically how it works is there's a goal setting that the council in the select board Undertake and they talk about these things and then deliver that to the manager you're kind of doing that here kind of like in in a meeting which is fine and I kind of want to get you used to doing that maybe next year we can have that but that's typically how it goes that's you know you drive the purse Dr you have the budget I mean I can put whatever the what I'm going to

do is I'm going to go to a data point and I'm going to look at what the cost of living adjustment is for the Northeast and that's what's going in the budget I can give that to you and then you can look at it and say well up or down you can go up but you can go down I really don't want to put together two or three different budgets for you to look at so I mean I know you want to look at the numbers I mean I suppose I could do it separ separately but I mean you can get a good idea cuz going up and down one% on wages isn't really going to affect the budget all that much so I

just I just put that out there for you all Debbie did you have some I'm just with I think the way you articulated it m is good I mean when you're saying you do mean me or Jerry you when we get when we get it in front of us it should be as close to the Baseline as what you would like to see approved as we can yeah because I understand like what you were getting at Joe earlier was like do we want to give them an upper percentage of we we're okay with a 5% increase in your budget this year bring it to us I'm saying let's get as close to a baseline because we have a lot of moving Parts this year for the budget and this probably isn't the best year to start adding in a lot extra that's just my personal opinion and I'm one vote on the board so if people want to direct otherwise we can have that

beat this enough I think we're going to get the budget I also think it's important for you to come and tell us those things because I've been in that town office how many times and never once thought hey there's no place for them to take a break or anything like that really small I mean I I never thought of it but I think that's important for people to know when we're considering things in the future right mhm so I think those are things that need to come out and they come out at this time when we're doing this process so those are the things that I was can I ask a clarifying question um there's been a lot of conversation around the band stand I was just about to bring and so that's not I mean it is because it's buildings right but that's the that's where I'm asking for Clarity on whether that type of thing is what you would consider a new initiative when it comes to the Band Stand go ahead so I think we should look

at this so I can kind of go over it with you so you should have it in your pocket it is the reserve stuff if this wasn't the right time I apologize no this is this is I had it on my list of things to bring up next so you read my line just kind of go over this so in 2024 you can see what we funded in the reserves right and if you look at 2025 and what I've got plugged in there those are just 18th month equivalents right mhm so you know

and then the grants thing there if we have put six in there we'll be up to that 30,000 that we agreed on to keep in there so if we get M grants out of matching we can pull it from there um so so I just so this is where I this is where I was kind of talking about you know setting an upper goal because if this represented I'll say a 5% budget in 202

the 5% you already put in for the first 12 months for the 6 months proceeding no this this represents a set amount because remember we said 10-year plan divided by 10 years so it's a set amount it's not a percentage amount right these were the these were the Joe these were the funds that we put in last year in these Reserve accounts so we just said we were going to just adding add we just said we're going to do 205,000 a year for public works right but that was still wasn't a flat line so you're still going to see an increase no no CU we just took the amount we wanted to put away and we said 205,000 a year for 10 years right but we also said we were going to look at that year to year to see and they did and it had their equipment prices really haven't fluctuated that much so kept them the same so and then down below you'll see where you usually give uh money to the Durham youth baseball and the scge these

sort of things you're going to have to decide on now for the Youth Baseball and the snow bill Club you already have money in the recreation Reserve so we ought to draw it from there and not raise it again so it's those sort of things that I want you to look at and I'll give you my recommendation CU I don't think you should you know if you have Recreation Reserve perhaps that's where we should draw the money from to give if you want to give it to them that's your decision same thing with a scholarship fund that's a decision that you all have to make if you want to do that um general assistance that's that's M about we have to have a little bit of money in there so that's kind of how that works and I just want you all just to kind of think about that and and you know I also put up top there the comp plan so you're going to have to do a comp plan at some point in the next couple years do you want to start saving

for that that's going to cost you some money to do that's going cost you 100 Grand if you get a consult to do it for you MH according to George tbar that's what he told me now I put the Gazebo on there you do have a buildings Reserve so there's money there but I put it there just to just to identify it so you it isn't it is an asset people are concerned about it MH so do you want to discuss it in this budget or not so and you have time right and then you got the modula behind the fighter station that just sits there I don't know what the town wants to do with that that would be a conversation to get started cuz it's and then you got the building in River Park that just sits there yeah and so for me Jerry my thought process I don't know what you for me is start with the

things that we're doing now this gazebo modular and building River Park discussion those sorts of things I think are things that we can have after we see the init personally I think it's something we would want to have after we see the initial number to say because if if there's a big increase because we have increase in County tax increase in school I think we need to be mindful of what we're spending money on this year so I don't want to just say right now bring me a a capital plan that gives us 10 grand a year for each one of these things cuz I think we need to do a little bit of leg work I think that I would be more comfortable with saying let's see what the budget looks like close to Baseline and then we can decide from from there personally I don't know I would like to hear everyone else's thoughts though What expenses need to go into the module or or the building at River Park um nothing

uh but we do heat it a little bit which there's nothing really in there but like every other thing we own we have building building at River Park has electricity tied to it you could cut that cuz nobody I don't know what we I don't know what the town does with it just sits there it's like I mean picture picture your personal life build this building and you set it on your property and you just let it sit there and do nothing so yeah I don't I don't think that's so for me so what do we so it's just I'm just sharing that with because I don't even know Debbie I don't even know if you knew about that right did you right so it's just it's just getting you thinking about this as we put together budgets so so one of the things I think that would be wise is getting this Baseline budget and then we can talk about these things but before we start putting money aside to Josh's Point what are we doing with it now I

think that's a larger conversation so I think that if we don't have a plan I would be more comfortable before budgeting for something to to put that as a priority for for our next year to say what do what is our inventory of our current buildings and land and what are we using it for and what should we be using it for and then we can come up with a budget as opposed to just saying let's just put money in these funds to create a capital Improvement fund for them at this time without seeing what the current Baseline budget's going to be that's my thought process I think one of the things we need to do is get back to was it last year the year before we had tried to go I think we made it to the union church and public works when we're going to go visit all of these Town buildings and I think that's something that we need to do and something I've been meaning to suggest for a while but the building at River Park is it

something we can rent out I think those are things we can we have to decide by going there and seeing and then having a discussion so I think those are things we need to get back to doing um but I agree if there's no I mean the electricity expense is something that's already budgeted for otherwise so there's no expense now so I don't think we need to plan them but what to do with them is a whole another story and that you know is something we can so decide another gazebo is something we should do yes 100% there's no question about that really yeah 100% I I 100% agree we hear

feedback about the Gazebo um but I think that we need to also marry that with the fact that when people get feedback that they want something done there's a a fiscal note attached to that too and so on one hand you got to balance that like if you want something done with it and it's going to be $30,000 that's something that you have to pay for or planned for and I think that at my feeling right now is I wouldn't direct personally I'm not suggesting we direct the town manager to pull any budget line together for these but if we get a budget from him in January and we feel like there's some wiggle room to start adding those numbers or make a plan for those that's where I would be more comfortable commenting on it then just real quick you have 70,000 in your building's reserved so just that's just information for you well and that's what I'm saying is after we get a budget from you if we want to transfer 70,000

from a building Reserve into a gazebo Reserve or budget out of that we can but or if we just want to say let's do something next year and pay for it out of G building reserves that's a discussion we can have but I I don't think that there's a budgeting implication for you right now personally does any Deb do you have any thoughts on that I'm with you Jerry when you're going over this you would be saying to yourself I'm not going to put a budget in there because we just use reserves so yeah right that's why you see no line that's why you see no numbers there but I but it's information that I want as the board to know that exist that's all yeah Josh why don't you go first and then I'll go I I was just going to say the Gazebo is in the historic district and the commission that was in front of us last week um part of their charge

when work needs to be done is to help look for ways to raise it so we should be asking them to help and find ways I mean we should have them do what they were tked to do yeah I think that's fair that's one way to start and those are the things that are going to save the taxpayers money and get this done um

so um I should have wrote down what I was going to say because now I forgot hold on wait a second just give me one minute oh I I think it's the kind of thing that's exactly like it doesn't necessarily have to go in a budget line if what your recommendation would be would be to transfer it but as the board what I would like to see happen in that situation is what we did with the additional reserves for the Union Church where we put that out as a warrant article and the town decides right if so

it does become part of the budget but ultimately the voters get to decide if they want to have that price tag attached with restoring or whatever needs to happen to we should have this discussion after we get the first draft of the budget because it's a very good point if we say to Joe's Point hey we want to put something we want to you want something done but it's going to cost money or it's going to come out of these accounts I think we can do that but in terms of for Jerry to prepare a budget for us I don't think he needs anything from us on here right now other than that hey thank you for flagging it and pointing out that we have we also have to get the cost yeah no I all I was going to say is that so like in town buildings budget you have it there for say 10,000 but that could go up a little if you started including more gazebo type and that's something I think we can talk about when we get our

first draft looking to nudge up and take it out the reserves we already have and then just back fill it with funds moving has there been an estimate as to the historic societ to I think commission to put name of a contractor I've had several contractors look at it they all just AR looking at it and go this is like a giraffe with a sore throat I mean everything you going to take apart here leads to something else leads to something else leads to something else and they're like basically just need to repu it because the the wood that's here nothing's original it's all already been uh replaced the numbers I was getting over the summer from a couple of contractors was about at least but they didn't want to do it so it just got one from the recommended a local contractor just the other day and he said you're looking at 20,000 without even a drop of a half your 20 grand just looking at it he said so just letting

you know the only thing Salvage will probably is the roof maybe we could take the roof off and put it back on a new whether you call it a gazebo or a vanand stand I guess the difference is the vanand stand is higher for elevated performances and and just so you know I

I start a new one for about 15,000 that could be set there as a prefab now I understand there are if you're going to try to save it from a historical standpoint it's the only thing that any of them told me they could see that possibly had original uh was original maybe some pieces of the roof mhm so that's just I'm just providing information yeah no that's good information to have I don't want to I'm not making I'm not trying to advocate for one way or the other giving you the information thank you that's good information for us to have especially given the fact that you're there saying that a lot of it has already been replaced with newer material um my question is is what you had priced out was it a replica of what is already there or was it a new design it's like the one that's in Lisbon it's the one the towns most towns are using the ones that are made by Hill and that could be set on the elevated

platform and actually be utilized as a band stand you have again so okay I think this is getting a little bit into the weeds but um I think it's important discussion to maybe have during the budget budget cycle later later on after we get this Baseline sounds sounds like we have a thesias ship situation here with the band stand or you replace every part is it still the same thing I don't know um um do any other recommendations for um

for for the first draft of the budget Jerry was this clear as mud for you yeah I'm I'm good I'm good can we ask the other department heads um I think I was going to start just with Jerry yeah I just want to make sure that you have they feel like they're in the same yeah sure um I mean if your department heads have any feedback for us too sure besides cabbage and tomatoes we we'll take it so

started as you probably know in Earnest a month ago with the town manager prepping so as far as the fire department we're trying to do level service for 18 months which for us is difficult again with the call volume we're going to be up more than 10% this year so that's what so far we have given

to the town manager and I say we Collective of all my officers the entire department Collective effort so a level service for the fire department and I'll let the town manager present that to you and Calvin did you have anything you wanted to add for us awesome well thanks for doing some of that ground workor on the Bandstand gazebo facility Center we call you're welcome appreciate that good info to have Jerry you need anything else from us to get started with the draft um I think we should talk a little bit about timeline obviously we're not going to meet on um Christmas Eve at least I won't be here you're you're all welcome you know I'm sure there'll be someone covered so um but other than that um My Hope was that we could get a draft from the town manager for our first meeting in in January with us giving comments then and then hopefully finalizing our uh budget the second meeting in January

with the intent of handing it off to the budget committee for the first week of February I I vocalized that in an email to the chair of the budget committee and I um was CCD on an email that he sent which is kind of getting the wheels turning on making sure that they're all aware of that process so does that sound like a amendable timeline to everybody

actually looking for like a localized no no I'm just asking if anyone if I mean we had talked about this so I just want to make sure we're all on the same page and uh I don't think we need to vote on anything there but other than that I don't have anything else on this budget discussion to uh to advise with [Music] so all right when you send it are you going to send it ahead of time like in our packet so that we can review it it ahead of the meeting or do you is your plan for us to like see it in the meeting and through live thank you I appreciate that I would imagine you might do some homework on the budget before cool all right and do we have any other new business I don't if that clock's broken it's only 6:30 it's all right usually we're starting right um well no other new business we can move in the manager report I last week I don't have nothing major to report this week awesome um board

member reports uh I'll just start off I'm starting to get some um hear hear back from the ad committee folks who are getting their emails logged on I've heard from at least two of them um they're uh excited to to get started so as they're getting that they said that it worked that when they logged I had sent an email to each one of them individually just to say please check go you know once you get your regular your town email set up let me know and they said that the message that I had sent to the town email to the ad group as they're all logging in they're seeing the welcome message so um I imagine that with the holiday season we can expect to really start seeing them take some action in January I've talked to a couple of them as I've seen them in passing and stuff like that so it sounds like there's a lot of excitement there so I just wanted to report back on that um Josh do you have anything

no Mr Joe Tom no I'm good you I have five things sorry I know it's all they're all pretty much just statements or questions that could be answered quickly but I will say for my like the last four meetings I haven't because our meetings have gone for so long so number one we had the resident um that filed a concern and then emailed and I don't know what is happening I don't I don't yeah they received they received an email yeah and they're I we I haven't heard anything back just knowledging that their concern was heard we happened to H address it mostly at that meeting that they attended anyways okay and so they received an email and kind of developed a protocol now where if we receive anything via email there's just an email going out saying thank you for your email it has been received and will be considered so people get at least like a receipt of it acknowledging that it was received so okay and we

haven't got anything since then okay and you're going to send that out with not necessarily all us all of us on so we just know that protocol on y protocol will just be I even talked a little bit to Devon to see if we could set up an automated message the only challenge is it would be you'd set up an automated message for anyone outside of your organization but then that means anyone who's emailing you gets an automatic message saying your email has been received so um that wouldn't be great because it's like we get emails from MMA GP Cog and okay all that but thank you I appreciate that um I went to the Durham historic district commission meeting last Thursday um and one of the things that came up was that the workshop that the attorney plans to facilitate between the select board and the commission and I I thought that we had said that that was going to happen in January but I couldn't remember exactly where we landed on that

and I just think it's important to figure out if we had landed on a date I can't remember what it was and and to communicate that to them yeah I'm not sure sure what did we landed on on that okay um I think we kind of put some sidebars around January to be budget month but I can't remember exactly I thought we had talked about doing it on a Thursday because there was something else that was H I might have made all that up I don't know anyway if if we can just figure that out and then make sure we communicate that to them um given the information that we got about the bylaws I think we have to vote on those and I just don't know if that's which bylaws the solid oh yeah sorry we I thought we did not have no we don't have to vote on oh don't have to Y Josh was Josh you were correct in your assessment on the bylaws I was I was off but oh they have to vote yeah it's so MMA they have to vote and sign I think

Jerry you said the whole group should be signed just clarify here for folks MMA has clarified that the um the committee and the commissions make their own bylaws and vote on them we sign on them that's what Josh had thought I thought otherwise we got clearance Josh's go figure the lawyer had the correct assessment on how it how it works so okay I'll just defer to you more Josh um we talk about the sheets the closing the loop sheet you know we both kind of I forgot to mention that on M um I can jump in real quick okay so uh Deb and I have been working on this tracking sheet for us as a board um just to put the things that we're working on and then we went in we set up some color coding where it's in progress to be determined have it set up so if we have something flagged is important but we don't have a date set and automatically shows up as yellow you need to set a date and so the goal for this sheet is just going to be

to for us to keep track of what we have going on so like perfect example like tonight knowing that we now every September need to approve these um um junkyard reports that'll go in there as a line and just say second meeting of September every year we're doing this so we can have that for planning um once we get and I are just working on it to get it up to date and then we can also close the loop and Mark a task as complete and that's just tracking for us so that doesn't do that that's not telling anyone in the town staff how they're supposed to work or anything like that it's just one of these things that tracks for us rather than like the chicken scratch that I have and when you guys get that solidified that's going to get shared with us so that my brain can stop holding on to all the tabs 100% And and you know we'll even Explore if this lives in a public space so people can see what our open tasks and what are

things that we're working on but Deb and I are just doing some um back and forth right now thank you I appreciate that so with that being said could you please add the violation policy that Allan proposed tonight to an agenda as soon as

possible yeah and I know as soon as possible might mean April but like if this is an ordinance and not a policy I think we need to have that discussion sooner rather than later I I want us to probably if you can note this we're going to want to put this on for a um trying to think of how my months Works sorry March or April um you know

or probably March but it won't be able to we won't fit in in January um maybe we'll have a little breathing room after we hand the budget off in February to do something in February but uh I don't think we're going to be able to get to it in January okay so my question on this then is this says policy is this is this something that we can enact by policy or does this have to be an ordinance I don't know that that's one thing I would like Josh you know probably an ordinance we're enforcing the ordinance I would think it's an ordinance yeah so the would be an ordinance to if yeah that's why I was saying the date I don't really want to wait another year when yeah no this is why we'll we'll put it on in February then okay yeah thank you hand the budget off and then well this would have budget implications so you can't just hand the budget off without putting more well it would have implications for Revenue CEO well CEO

duties if it increases duties only if we increase the hours it would have those what I mean it's going to have it's going to have hours associated with it so so he had said that our attorney has already reviewed An approved and this says policy indirectly right for different for different towns you got they so you'd have to go through our attorney and make sure she's still okay with it her stay and age versus what she did maybe for Mechanic Falls four years ago I guess so is your question is if do we need to change the ordinance to empower the code enforcement officer to be able to issue violations or can we just say we're empowering them through just a policy saying you can issue violation without coming to the board is that your question my question is in order to enact this does it have to be enacted by vote at town meeting to change the ordinance or can this be enacted by the select board as a policy

yeah but I think that we could go out and enforce you know do this ourselves but we're certainly not qualified to do that right the select board's got the power right I mean unless I unless I misread what Allan was just uh uh saying is that we have the authority we go after the any junkyard we want today we're we're the power so we could take that power and pass that off to Allen yeah and I think that that's what Allen was getting proposal is that right now he can issue a notice of violation he can't um issue like a fee that has to

come from us and so I think what he's saying is if we could Empower him to just go say here's your fee for not for operating an unlicensed junkyard and your in and whatever our fee structure is which we are allowed to adjust but we have to give Allen that Authority that I don't think our ordinance gives him so I don't know if that is an ordinance change or if we have that ability to but I'd have to check this against our ordinance so whenever we put this on the agenda those details should be part 100% And so that could either be from our lawyer or we could just read it ourselves and figure out what going on and then figure that out so let's uh can you this the first February and it'll take them more time so it's going to be it it will affect any we got it and to your point Joe to be mindful that any thing that we're saying we think this needs to be done it's either add time or instead of what

you're currently doing and if what you're currently doing is what needs to be done that's that's a further discussion I think you have a flagging key consideration there y that was only three no it was five that was all five you don't want to couple more well thank you for those we uh let me just make sure I did I did them all maybe that was four hold on let me just Jessica says it was only four it was only four hold on I you did interrupt me once so maybe you cut it maybe you cut off one of mine okay the cemetery the uh historic

District commission the bylaws closing the loops and the violation policy that was five theet was email concern from a resident that I wanted to make sure that we followed up on that's that's one that calin's going to determine what the the budget is for that and then the town people will vote if we're okay with that at the town meeting y AC accepting that's that's what that was ex what that was we get we we get the budget from you as what the Mowing and whatever else maintenance will cost and so hopefully

something else say that was my five if you give me a good one um oh speaking of following up we uh we initiated a follow up with GP Cog on the um assistance to the historic commission durm historic district commission and the reevaluation process it sounds like right now GP Cog is a little light and expertise on their historic district um capacity with the in line with the architectural survey needs and so that they would have to build some capacity there and get a little bit more familiar so they might have flagged it as something they were going to do for us in our comp plan but right now there it sounds like they don't have that internal so that would take a little bit more a little bit more work we also heard back from the assessor um the assessing company and it sounds like the vast majority of what needs to be collected for the architectural survey is collected by that company and so um my recommendation

would be that we just wait till that gets done and then we can mine that data from the 350 properties as opposed to because it's like right now if we if we come if we say let's budget $10,000 to go do something in 2026 that we're going to get for free in 2027 I just don't think it's very fiscally responsible and so as long as the Durham historic district Comm is willing to wait I think that that's mindful so is there any thought that we should actually just look at the historic district we have and just do that right now that small body of buildings down town here can I can I just one second Jerry Jerry and then I to go this isn't on the agenda M

so I wouldn't I was just I was just following up with the information I did I know but people don't people will probably want he this and so what I'm just saying is we emailed them and we didn't get any magic one that solves all our problems but we get half of it so we can put this on at a later agenda but I just want to let you know I've closed the loop and I've closed the loop I I I can update what on one thing with the meeting that I went to to say that they're making a recommend dat they're plan is to come to the board with a recommendation about the scope either that area

okay yeah all right all right nothing else Heather Deb you got anything on your cool all right so um what oh boy uh anyways uh so I would take a motion to approve the consent agenda so move Josh and Joe I normally read the minute like really thoroughly and that's all right all right uh all

approval vote on the motion to PO wow words vote to approve the motion all right any opposition no opposition all right so upcoming town meetings town office will be closed on December 24th and December 25th for the holiday the planning board's regular meeting in the batter battery energy storage system Workshop will be January 8th 20 uh 2025 we're now in to 2025 meetings at the fire station here at 6:30 and then the next select board meeting will be January 14th at 2025 at the fire station here at 6:30 um do we have a need for an executive session yes okay Jerry is it and are we Personnel matters okay we didn't get written in there but it's 4056 a oh no it's here 4056 a okay

perfect bold letters um do I have a motion to move into executive session so move and that's by Joe uh do I have a second I'll second all in favor any opposition seeing none we're moving into executive session at open to that page I know why did we start so early were we going to do a different budget way or um remember we started early I I think when we just suggest moving it Josh said could we start at 5:30 and I it sure I did I think it's because we thought we were going to do the thing where they present their budgets to us I mean I was expecting a little bit more than that you know yeah I think that's why and also Lisa was supposed to be in trial this week and she's not so