TranscriptPlanning Board Meeting ~ September 6, 2017

Not yet. [clears throat and cough] We're good. Hello everyone. Like to welcome you all to the September 6th planning board meeting. I'm the chair Mindy Warder and uh we're waiting on one person but we do have a quorum and we will start with the pledge of

allegiance America and to the republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all. agenda? Joe had asked that we table the acceptance of the minutes from the last meeting as she did not have them completed. I think she was waiting on some other documents from board members.

Okay. Do we have to make a motion on that or a motion to table the agenda? I mean the minutes from August 2nd. Second. All those in favor. Right. I'll write that down. John and Brian. Baldwin and the Mineral Springs Estates application.

Oh, he's coming right back in. Shutting his headlights off. [snorts] written from the last meeting for Ann. I don't know if you guys did anything with it in August, but I don't have it. Sorry, left my lights on out there.

until we had just trying to plow through. Sorry about that. You've already read it. Read this or I have. Yes, we got which way? But I got some new plans, too. Thank you. So, we have a new a new new plan. Yeah, just with added uh from the wastewater management.

permit yet, but you do. No, this the storm water permit it's it's basically been reviewed and accepted, but you know how it is that getting the written permit is seems like that's half the battle these days. Mhm. three minutes to read this? Yeah, I think I think you guys need to read it.

So, John and Brian haven't seen this yet, so Mhm. So, they're This is their first time seeing it. showed up. I had asked that it could be in the back. You saw this? You give this You show this to him. Did not happen. Well, I can take a quick look at it, but I don't know.

Should I have just forwarded it? Should I just really affect [sighs] on my The letter should be. Did you have stuff? Oh, this one. Yeah. [clears throat] I don't have what I typed up. I realized as I was here that I what I typed I didn't and sent to you I didn't print out for myself but I have

I have my I have the hard copy of the notes that I took in June what I wrote I think at the last meeting cuz we didn't have this yet. Yeah. the most upate. out. Actually with the packet from last one. Yes, right there. copies of this. You got this one.

I mean, I typed copy over. I can make I typed it up like two days ago. Oh, I've got a copy. Is this it? Did you make Do you want to make two copies? The checklist. Yeah. left that it conforms with the ordinance comp plan and land use ordinance, right?

what changed on this plan just so we all understand what was updated as storm water? So, the only thing that changed on that plan will be if you look at um the first lot in on the left, which is actually not part of the subdivision, but it's a lot owned by Mr. Baldwin um that 5.17 acres there is now on the the

bottom of the lot uh there is a storm water uh buffer easement down there which um will treat that buffer is going to treat uh a portion of the newly created impervious area for the road construction. Uh and then if you go up to lot five, you will see another storm water buffer area um which is also going

to treat uh storm water from the new roadway. And then if you also look at uh from the boundary of lot five uh I guess we're going north and northeast with the rest of the road uh that that whole section of roadway is going to be treated by what we call a roadside buffer. So the road's actually being built on a ridge and so there's no ditches.

And so the storm water there is just going to run off the road and then into a 50 foot wide buffer that starts actually from the edge of the rightway. So that um you know there'll be there'll be some grass to slow it down on the end of the at the edge of the road and then it goes right into the undisturbed woods except for that buffer does allow for driveway crossings of 20 ft in width um at any

point along that. So he'll probably have two driveways on the left hand side and then there won't be a driveway on the right hand side because that driveway's got to go in further. thought at least the ones on lot five and the lot that's not numbered are were chose just because they're lowlying areas that you expect those natural catchments line up right with where the where we place the culvert. So we ditch down to the culvert and then the culvert comes in and and then we we go into a level lip spreader.

Mhm. which is just a a big stone sort of basin that kind of fills up with the water and then slowly diffuses in a it turns it back into sheet flow and then as a sheet flow goes down the buffer that's undisturbed buffer and that's actually the preferred method. uh D now prefers buffers and all subdivisions um for treatment measures uh because they're finding over the last five or six years that structural methods such as uh ponds, bio retention gardens, things like that don't get maintained very well, especially in rural areas.

Um so this is you know this was almost a rubber stamp type of thing. They reviewed it. They actually reviewed it at the at the submittal meeting and took gave me the sign off. So, we're just waiting for the permit to be written.

Great. So, each construction? Yep. So, uh that's actually spelled out in the permit. Usually, you put a pin. So, these will go out when uh at final acceptance. They'll go out and they'll put a pin an iron pin prior to lot construction. So, part of the part of the D permit is going to say, you know, prior to disturbance on the lot, the buffers need to be pinned at the corners. And then we also prepare like a little um when you get your deed when you buy the lot, it actually shows like a little 8 1/2 by 11 picture of the lot and it says there's a buffer here. You can't disturb this. So it it has to be part of the deed um that they get when they buy the lot so they understand that they were informed that that buffer is there.

plan. I haven't been able to check it against the regs, but in lot number five, you have the the constructible lot within the storm water buffer. Yeah. See really what that that line should be trimmed out within that buffer. So that you know the lot five area would be the edge of the buffer and then the the setback line.

Yeah, that's what I'm getting at. It's not clear here that that's the case. Waiting on it to Yeah, right. We don't actually have the written permit. just be a condition that's listed on that list of conditions. I think have to wait for Calvin.

road was our last piece, right? And the Yeah. Well, I think the back that's the only change that needs to be made, right? So, I think whether or not this falls under back, can we consider a back? It actually says it's not to be disturbed.

questions on the road were first establishing that it counts as a town road counts as a access established access, right? Rights to access, right? The folks would be able to get to the subdivision, right? Second question was I guess what do we do for maintenance to make sure that the folks who purchase lots there can have the rights to have fire equipment emergency response um to their site

yeah and I I don't think we can um because we can't require them to maintain it because it's not their road. Mhm. So, I think I would rather just address that with like a buyer beware and have them label it on the plan cuz it sounds like they've been figuring it out how to keep it maintained all along.

Mhm. But I don't think we can require them to maintain it. So that's probably how I deal with that one is have them show it on the plan. You're referring to the discontinued section, right? Yeah. We can Mr. Baldwin, we can ask to build a town road to a standard that the fire chief and everyone else has approved and is established as best practice and whatnot. But when they have this piece of road that comes in that he doesn't own,

right? as as the I think the attorney stated in his letter that I make uh as long as I make the road safe. In other words, the same width is what it's supposed to be and they can pass fire trucks on it, you know, two lanes. I think that was pretty much what he said. As long as the road was built or made it safe and I believe that's what they're talking about being wide enough to accommodate trucks, even fire. They always I think they use a term of fire trucks passing each other and going.

he's he's not real clear though cuz he said some off-site improvements for safety purposes to in accessing subdivision. While this may not be a requirement that the roof be built to town standards, it could certainly include So that piece he seems to say that we can

require that it be built up to road standards. Well, they we can require some improvements, right? And I've already agreed to that and that's part of my plan, right? You've you've expressed that before, right? make that a condition?

That's what I was thinking. when my road uh gets built and inspected, they can inspect that part of the even though it's not my road, it's my access road. That that'll have to be acceptable at the same time. The discontinued road,

right? Mr. Baldwin to make um some improvements to that road to to meet the width requirements. Uh we know the road existing road base is there. It is what it is for road base. Um it is what it is for its grade and and all of those other requirements.

Um but I think at a minimum it needs to be maintained for width and drainage appropriate drainage so it doesn't wash out in an emergency. And the engineer has already addressed that with me. He's making suggestions on how I stabilize that and that worst part by CMP.

Right. And Calvin, I believe, went up and looked at the road for someone else. But it is built all the way up to almost the power line to the full width. I did that years ago. It's grown in with grass. But sure, once I put equipment on there to widen that out to to get rid of that grass, she'll the road committee or whoever looks at it will see exactly what's going on there.

So, it was built 24 ft where I did it all the way up through. Okay. So, what about maintenance? [snorts] we we had a copy of his road being its agreement, right? And it but it only covers the subdivision road subdivision road itself is the way it's written currently, right?

Correct. That's right. I think according to the legal opinion that's all we can ask for I think right no but where Ann's going is yeah Barry can fix the road now but then you know then the subdivisions got what's their responsibility as subdivision owners

it's going to be even uh tough for me to require homeowners no legally for me to have them binding to right to fix that road But how how is that? And eventually there'll be other people on that road other than my subdivision. I mean, there's a lot of land up there. There's going to be more things, you know, in the future, I'm sure.

Do you solely maintain that road now or I not not much just I built it pretty much, but I plow it sometimes. A neighbor that lives there plows it sometimes. But I am preparing and also telling the people that I've sold land to and selling to that I'm going to maintain that road personally for two years and I have bought two trucks size

of town plot trucks with wing and the whole nine yards. So I'm fully prepared to maintain that road all of it. And then I mean it I understand what you're saying. Somebody's going to have to realize that somebody has to keep that road open. I mean, if it's built, you know, as it is almost right to the power line, I have to finish it, but they they maintain it now because people live there. I mean, somebody's going to plow that road. It's not like they're all going to be sitting there in the snowstorm saying, you know, I'm not plowing it. You're going to

uh you'd be surprised what people do. Oh, I know. It's not a family deal. [laughter] Been involved in enough road association disputes. Um, I I guess I'm at the point where I just want it on the plan so that any buyer knows that this isn't a town road. There's no guarantee that it's going to be maintained. Um, and they take that risk if they buy in that subdivision.

they've resolved that issue themselves. So it might be might be the buyers when they go to buy these lots probably will come back to it'll come down to they'll want that the banks will require that in the deeds um in my deed even it spells out the rights to that road and what what it is and what when it happened and why why it is accessible and all that. So it's

and that sub is facing the same deal that I bought I faced when I bought that land and the people on the other side. It's pretty much the same deal for everybody. Yeah, I know they're very strict on it now. The banks since the crash, they don't really touch private roads without those agreements in place. I mean, does that mean we're going to have a scenario where we have people living in a subdivision and they can't access their road and then they're coming to the town and asking for help and then what does the town

That's what always happen I think and then they want the town to plow it and then in order to plow it the town has to accept it. It's in crappy shape which is why we have all the requirements in the subdivision ordinance.

Right. But in this case it's a little bit unconventional in the sense that there's a private road going into his private road that he can't that doesn't control necessarily. So, I mean, I think the condition of the plan would be would go a long way in addressing [clears throat] that, at least alerting potential buyers that there may be an issue of

so I mean, make sure that that that continues to be communicated. You know, if there's someone if someone buys and then they sell it and then the next buyer is not aware or I mean, so most dem reference to the plan, okay? um as a subdivision. So if someone's doing the title work,

they should go back and look at the plan. Should go back and look at the plan. And if it's a if it's a note on the plan, So there's an existing note on the plan. Proposed Spring Road is to remain private and will be built to the private road standard. Should there be another note that the existing Granite Hill Farm Road is whatever the lawyer called it, [laughter] it shall remain continued county way.

think Ann's suggestion of big bold letters in the deed says that it's it's a discontinued road and buy everywhere. Yeah, that would be a note that would go on the plan and the deed would reference the plan. So that way that would

Yeah, I mean we could we could require we put in the deeds going out. I suppose um that Mr. Baldwin include it in his deeds out on those parcels that access to his parcel is over a discontinued county way or something like that. Mhm.

to wind up with here is we're going to have a crappy private road and then Mr. Baldwin's road is going to have to be built to road standards. And he does seem pretty clear that we can't wave those road standards. No, that' be a variance.

But that road's going to be built the same as mine. The only thing I can't do the same as mine is I can't change that one little section or I can't get the grade that's required because of the pipeline. Right. Right. I can't touch that. It's all in ledge and

right right now the rest of it is going to be just as good as right now they're talking about maintenance moving forward. who's going to maintain it to keep right but I mean the issue of of building how we how we build it or how I initially prepare that road.

the plan that indicates the status of Granite Hill Farm Road. You want to just include it in the note that exists. Whatever the best through this same amount of stuff that we've all been it's just my idea. a minimum. I don't know. I kind of like the idea of putting it in the deed itself, but I defer to the lawyer.

She's not a lawyer when she's here. I I do not provide legal advice to this board. [laughter] Um, I prefer to the defer to the vice chair. Yeah. I mean, I think that's the best we can do. It's a weird situation, right? And I don't love it, but at the end of the day, folks, as long as folks understand what they're buying, it's going to create a problem for the town in 10 years, and that's that is what it is.

How's it going to cause a problem 10 years? because people are gonna buy that. You're gonna get out of there and not maintain it. They're gonna be mad that nobody's maintaining their road and they're gonna want the town to do it.

Again, you missed the point that there's land on the other side of that road and land beyond that road and there's more people that don't land in there on that road frontage road than just me. So, no. And I'm I think while you're still involved, it's going to be fine. I think once you're out of there, folks are buying little twoacre pieces. They're not going to have the heavy equipment that you have. They're not, you know, they're expecting to come in and plop their house down and have it taken care of.

By tying that road, that existing road frontage road in with my subdivision, the problem that creates when people do come on that road that's already there. It's how are they going to tie into my maintenance agreement? Yeah. They're not. And that's the problem.

Yeah. You know, and I'm not going to maintain the road for everybody. Whoever comes in there is going to have to Yeah. You know, anybody and you you can't [laughter] have a maintenance uh agreement on something you don't own,

right? No. No. We totally agree. You can have a maintenance agreement on Mineral Springs by Granite Hill Farm, right? It there is while you're going to build it and you're going to try to make it right when you get started,

long term, there's no agreement bond requiring anyone involved with the project, future buyers included, to maintain that road. I think they're going to want to if they want to get to their houses. Totally agree. Well, they're going to want the town.

I mean, it's it's going to be a matter of uh I I don't know how you require a maintenance agreement on something that every everybody owns and it's not like you you do it going in. When you're starting it up on a subdivision, it's fine. Everybody has to follow the same rules on a road that's already there

and it's going to be added people to it that wouldn't be part of the project. I don't know how you and that that's exactly the problem. But no, it is what it is. I don't think I'm to be clear. I don't think we're asking you to put a maintenance agreement on

the discontinued piece of cont. So you're asking Okay, so you're just asking me to make the people aware that buying a subdivision that they're right discontinued county road that you know that's really it. I mean, that's all you can do is just make it really clear that they know that they're buying on discontinued county road and their maintenance agreement is for their your development road.

Good. That you own. You'll scare off the fussy people. We don't want them there. [laughter] [laughter] All right. You want to look at a Did you go through the criteria list to see what was left in complete? I think it's just compliance with the ordinance.

I think that's all we got left is number nine. meeting all the road standards on that subdivision road. Right. he adds that to the plan and we got to define what that is. What's that? Yep. We haven't gone through all of that. the note or the the notes right about

right we go through all that all through all what granite hill farm oh yeah right so we're going through the approval criteria but there's all the the performance we haven't gone through the performance standards yet do we have to we have performance standards talking about Okay. Come on. Mom, what do we do? We have a lot of performance standards that are mostly duplicative of the approval criteria.

There's like a big section on Yeah. performance and design. Yeah. talk about the gravel and the paving and all that stuff. approval criteria, but then in or F, but then we've got G, which is all the performance and design standards.

So, we don't have a checklist for that because it was kind of obtuse to make a checklist for it. Okay. At least I didn't make one. Um, well, why don't I make one up as we talk? Yep. or if everyone's here for baseball. Members of the public.

Do we have any members of the public here to comment on the Mineral Springs Estates subdivision? Before we go through this borious checklist, is there a chance that we can just simply table this until the applicant has a complete submission

to what are we missing? So, the permits, the storm water permits, but we had talked about making those just a condition, right? Okay. Notes on the plans. Yep. So, that's another piece that we can require be put on before we sign the myar.

Okay. So, if you think there's something big that piece of information we need in order to go through the performance standards, I would say we should table it. But if it's pieces that we can do as a condition that Calvin can check off before we sign the mileer and give it to him to file, um, we can just make those conditions. And at this point, we deemed this. We're doing a going through the approval at this point. We already deemed the application complete. We're on the the next checklist.

make the motion so I can type them. Oh, boy. All right. So, these are the ones that Well, there's a lot of them. Oh, yeah. Great. We don't have to bother with land unit developments. Yeah, one page. Oh, yeah. It's duplicative.

Mhm. I think we already came to that conclusion earlier. [laughter] Love this order. We don't have to we don't have to read it all, do we? No. But what I would suggest is that John make all the motions that say, for example, the proposed subdivision will not result in undue water air pollution because we've had an engineer involved and he's done all the

Okay. And thanks. All right. Pollution. Proposed subdivision. You fast enough will not result. You don't watch the video. Go for it. Proposed subdivision will not result in undue water or air pollution. and because this project has been engineered and is being permitted under the main D storm water rules.

Second. All those in favor? Okay. Okay. Air quality. We find that this project will not create any air quality issues due to it being a subdivision of residential nature. How's that? Second. All those in favor. We find that this project will not degrade subsurface or surface water supplies as a result of its development because it is being designed to meet the water quality standards of the main D.

I'll second. All those in favor sufficient water supply for its planned development based upon the boring uh the well results provided in the application water supply results and the hydrant that we have within a reasonable distance. Right.

Yes. Correct. and the fire chief reviewed the distance to a suitable power supply. A second. All those in favor? soil erosion or reduction in the land's capacity to hold water. Engineer has provided an erosion control plan for construction. Following construction, the site will be stabilized appropriately.

will not cause unreasonable highway or public road congestion due to the limited size of the development. All those in favor? best way to do this one, road construction, drawing. So, find that this project uh meets the road construction requirements. The engineer has provided road sections and ditching and drainage plans consistent with our project and the applicant will follow all road construction standards required for subdivision. So, one thing that we had talked about previously was the paving. Um, and so this would need to be paved once you've got once the fourth dwelling went in,

right? Based on the current ordinance. And I think there was um what did I just do Right. So, as appear that we can wave that standard in the current ordinance. So, but that drawing doesn't show for paving, right? The road section

Okay. subdivision standard. So we want to ask them to add that in the section or do we want to so either add it as a note or put it as a condition? I' I'd just revise the plan to reflect it on the plan. Just why don't we put it as a condition that the paving will be added for

to the plan before you sign it for the my it really needs to be in the details. Y if that's what you want is what the ordinance right we have to do. Yeah. And I've I mentioned before that I'm going to when it's finally approved that uh I'd be allowed to change with the an ordinance change,

right? I don't know how you deal with that, but if you could word that uh that if the ordinance changed, he'd be allowed to that the board would consent to wave that requirement in the event that the uh ordinance changes in the future. Yeah, I don't think we can wave it, but if it's no longer a So, what if we required the note to say [sighs] um you know must be paved in accordance with ordinance in effect at the time most current

the fourth house is built or something like that. Right. Okay, perfect. So that way if the ordinance changes before that fourth fourth house gets built, you don't have to pave. Yeah. So, um, let me write that down. That's a note going on. Going where?

The plan. Okay, Y. the fourth house? Prior to the prior to the fourth house, prior to the fourth house before you issue the permit for the fourth prior to the house, it would have to be paved. Okay. So, we're destroying this plan again. So, do we want to go back to lot five and change the way that looked? You mentioned it. Is that

okay? We'll get all those. Even though it says the whole thing can't be disturbed, you want to get that set back out of there and this 50 foot setback out. Yeah. Got it. one down there. so I think the motion was to find that this was met with that additional condition.

Okay. I will second that. All those in favor. Are they going to find that this project the applicant has met the performance requirement for road maintenance by submitting a draft of the road maintenance agreement that will become part of the

tell you what subdivision Um, round. Does it say all of these things? I don't think I have a copy of it anymore, more frankly. maintenance agreement is an extension of an existing private way which served lots created prior to March 6, 2004, a statement that the applicant for private way approval has contacted the owners of such lots has offered them the opportunity to make their property subject to the maintenance agreement and that they have either accepted or declined that offer and that the declarant has submitted to the planning department not department a notorized affidavit confirming the declarant's compliance with this paragraph. Oh, we're not putting a maintenance agreement on the section of road that has other

right. But I think what it's saying is if you have this situation, Barry has to approach the owners of the road, which would be the abuters to the center line. I think although Jack, I don't think Jack said that that road wasn't discontinued that way

and see if they want to own it or if they want to be part of the maintenance agreement. Nobody. All the abutters. It's really that simple. Each of Butter owns to the center line. Granite Hill. Yeah. It's the way that discontinuence works. It's each of Butter goes to the center line and you're crossing over each other's land, but it's subject to in this case it's called private way, which back then meant public way. I know it's backwards, but that's that's the way that worked.

on that road owns land there wants to be any part of any agreement too. Well, I have this one on. I don't know what that is. I think this one might be an updated one, but I'm maybe not. Do I have an old one? I don't know. created [clears throat] prior to March 6, 2004. E3 applicable to this regarding the deed the maintenance agreement

it should be written into all of those terms should be in the maintenance agreement and I don't think they are unless we have the wrong version of it this is the one I Do you have a copy of your maintenance agreement with you?

Your road maintenance agreement. You have a copy uh something different as for it to be updated, but I'm not sure which one. maybe through the stuff. This one might actually have all of the stuff in. that's Alvin, you have a record copy of

I I gave it to the attorney and haven't picked it up yet. the most I tried to get all the most recent stuff together. It does look like it. one he drew up? We have two versions from your attorney. It's the one that looks a little crazy. It's got everything on it. And

It's not going to be the first version. It's this one. The more complicated one. Yeah. The warranty on it. Want me to make copies of that? Y. They had them in your package, but those we've been here 8 months, so it's not telling where this stuff went. A lot of takes on the way.

the lawyer's office and I got to go back and get it. I can make a copy of that. I can. Thanks, Calvin. Let me get that for a second, Calvin. Let make sure that's You want to move on and we can go back to that? Yeah, that's the one.

You want to just move on and we can come back to this? Uh, yep. Well, we already approved it, so we got to back. I move to reconsider. All right. I move to reconsider the road maintenance agreement. Actually, let's just wait and see if we

Now you have it when Let's move on. I'll move to reconsider at the end. Groundwater, you're up. There's that one. I got it. No, that's the deed. No, it's not attached to it. Yep. Right there. Gotcha. the standard has been met. Board must find this. All right. So find that this project meets the requirements for groundwater protection. Each new development, each new lot will include a subsurface water permit for

state regulation. Second. All those in favor? that a that the town's contract for solid waste has the capacity sufficient capacity for disposal of waste generated by the proposed use. Not. Sorry. Are we sure that the town's contract uh contracted solid waste management company will cross the road to get to the primary?

Oh, they'll have to bring it out to the end of their the end of their street. That's their That's their challenge. They're only going to go down the approved town streets, which is pretty consistent with what happens elsewhere in town. They will go into a subdivision to collect trash as long as everyone on the in the subdivision. Uh they have to fill out a form that says they are willing to let that truck come in on that private road to collect trash. There's some kind something to that effect. But yeah, they will go in and collect it. Everybody wants them to. But there's some kind of paperwork you have to fill out to get them to do it. Do you have that paperwork? No, I don't. Let me just explain it to you what

what they do allow. I don't have the contract of solid waste. Oh, okay. We're good. Um, so we have a vote that was 3 to one, right? Okay. All right. We'll let that in. Or you want to go back to road mainstream. Um. [gasps] Yep.

Which which one did you just do? Always number 10. Okay. So each original located with regard to the maintenance, repair and snow plowing repair and commit for approval maintenance agreement specify the rights and responsibilities of the owners. So I think it does that right and then it has these very specific things. So, a detailed statement of how the ownership interest in the private way will be structured. Uh, we had a note on the plan, right? Barry's retaining this road.

No, maintenance agreement. Yeah. Who? No, but who owns the road? Who's going to own the road? We had this conversation before and I don't remember. Equal shares. Whoeverbody who owns a lot owns the road. Part of the road. propose spring rot private.

Is that written? What's the say? There's a section. We had talked about putting in the deed preserves the right to grant easements. subject to a declaration of covenants for road maintenance. Well, often times what's happened in the past is that uh the subdivider deeds the lots off and then years later when they go to do something, they find out that the subdivider still owns it,

right? And then we have to chase heirs and things to so it should say right in it should say with a 1/8 interest or how many of the lots there are in the roads each lot owner should be getting a proportionate share of the road so they each of them owns 1/5 or 1/8 or whatever lots

I think that we know number seven. So it should say with a 17th interest in the roadway called such and such shown as depicted in the plan. [clears throat] Well the pins are all outside the road shown on the plan. Right. But they would have a one what Calvin saying is they'd have a 17th interest in the whole road.

Is that number seven here? Course sharing. We're talking actual ownership. The deed says that they have easements, which is different than ownership though. So, who owns the fee? Fee fee interest in the road. So prrated cost share will be based upon the percentage of roadway extending from the start of the private road to the intersection of each driveway where a residence exists or to the midpoint of a property frontage that is adjacent to the roadway where the residence does not exist.

It's not the same. No, the fee interest and is another good reason to make sure the fee interest is transferred is that people can come back to Mr. Baldwin later and say, you know, I was injured on your road, you own it, and we want compensation. So, it's a good idea to convey that interest to the the landowners.

You can do a couple things. You can create like a road association, which is a you have to create it. It's a an entity like an LLC or nonprofit. Um it's its own corporate form and you can deed it to them. Uh you can deed it to the

owners, you know, 17th interest. You can deed it to them uh to the center line abuing their property and everybody keeps their easement. Um or I can maintain the maintain ownership. Yep. And decide what to do later, which is what I'm going to do.

Okay. So then let's put a condition that that needs to go in the maintenance agreement. the lots shown in the planer are divided or in the event any remaining land of the declarant is subsequently brought into lots which are served by the private way instead resulting water lots to become subject to the maintenance agreement.

well. maintenance agreement. So, so of these under B. Okay. So, first I'm going to make a motion to reconsider our findings on eight. Second. All those in favor? And then I'm going to make a motion to impose the following conditions.

describe ownership of the road. It must include the statement required by put that section in G. Yeah. But what G No. Article. Okay. Subdivision, right? Yep. Is that what subdivision is? A seven. Oops. B O Four. six? A discontinued county road? Is

it's actually a public way. I don't know if it's a public. I would call that a private way. Bar the folks at the beginning of the road, the three residential, they have their own road association currently or they just do it on their own?

No. Okay. Nobody is they live. They live right by the main roads. Well, they don't I mean going uh the finan Oh, that's one way up in it. Yeah. Yeah, but that is a public Yeah, that's a public way. Or is it a private way with public access?

I think it's a private way. Actually, yeah, that's what it is. Where's the easement? Who has the easement? The public the public easement everyone. The land reverted back to private property with a public easement over it. So,

but there is an easement in place that we have written. It's in the deed. It's it's in the uh the deed way back. So, what Sik says is that Barry has to go to those people and ask them if they want to be part of the road meetings agreement for the subdivision.

Yep. And then provide [clears throat] provide an affidavit saying he asked to Calvin. Um Okay. So, I'm gonna That's a lot of If I may, that's a lot of extra work to come up with nothing because they've all Nobody's interested in joining in. You can just

Calvin under affidavit. put in an affidavit and sign it and notoriize it and give it to Calvin that I've asked that you've made contact and that they've all refused to the people living there or people that own land there or

it should be every every abing land owner is what it should be [clears throat] or anybody who has frontage on that road basically up to up to mineral up to your So, is that something I I can work with you on or does it have to be?

We'll make it a condition. Yep. So, you just Okay. Um Okay. So, here are my proposed conditions. agreement must describe the ownership of the road. He the road maintenance agreement must include the statements required by basically B2 through B5 as well as B7.

officer with an affidavit saying that he's asked a budding land owners up to where his road starts whether they want to join his road maintenance association thing. So that's my motion. Second. All those in favor? Okay, moving on.

You're not in favor? I am in favor. This is my motion. I like my own motions. All right. 11. Go. [laughter] This board finds that this project will not impact aesthetic, natural, and cultural values. The standard has been met because it has preserved landscape with the size of their lots. We have confirmed with the property authorities that there are not protected natural resources or cultural historic sites on the property.

uh we find that the developer has appropriate financial and technical capacity. He has provided cost estimates and statements of available funds. He has retained a licensed engineer to design the project who will be providing oversight during construction and until stabilization. I'll second that. All those in favor.

I don't know if we've talked about noise before. Have we? Have we talked about noise before? Uh I don't think so. No. Noise is a new one. Any concerns? It's just a residential use, right? [laughter] The lawnmowers on Saturday afternoon.

Never know. So he sets up his firing range and I mean the construction limits are 9 to 6, you know, can't do it between 9:00 p.m. and 6:30, but that's in the ordinance. I don't Right. But he's also so far from a boundary that he could be up there with a skiitter and not hit 55 at his boundary. [snorts] [laughter] So uh we find that this project will not

create a noise meets the standards for noise due to its residential nature. have any concerns. All right. requirements because it is a residential development that will not produce conscious odors. Second. All those in favor

uh find that this subdivision will not create glare or vibration outside of the standard of this ordinance because it's res. Because it's residential. I'll second that. All those in favor? We should not have the subdivision ordinance that includes commercial subdivisions. Silly, but

okay. Schools. Um, so to meet this standard, we have to find that they won't, this project won't increase the school population by more than 10%. Which pretty sure the seven houses won't do that. Everyone agree? Yes. All right. So, uh, let's find that this project meets the requirements for schools. It will not increase the capacity of Durham Elementary School by more than 10%. Because there are seven lots. Second. All those in favor.

find that land subject to liquid harvesting is not applicable. Second. All those in favor either because we don't have any dedicated public use. Okay. So it's fine. We find that 18 is not applicable because there is no land designated for public use inside this project.

Second. All those in favor? board may require proposed subdivision to conserve features of trees streams. So we find that this project has been designed in a way that it has conserved trees, streams and the topography of the area.

spaces. Um find that this project does not require additional street trees, esplanads or open spaces due to its generally forested nature. All those in favor? Those beautiful drainage natural areas have to be maintained now too. flood plane. Um, we reviewed this already, right?

Yeah, they don't have any. All right. So, we find that this project meets the flood plane management requirements. There are no flood plane areas in the proposed building envelopes for this project. Second. All those in favor.

Great. That's the end. Oh, no. So I can we do this? I think this one is mostly There is a requirement that they submit the monuments. General provisions. That's where you're at. That's what we just went through. H H I mean H.

That's what I was just looking at. So most of this is about town road requirements, [clears throat] but subdivision which this will become a road. Um except for two. All applicable conditions of approval have been met or how prior to lot

yeah prior to say the monumentation um subdivider shall be required to maintain all improvements provide for snow removal association and then it may not sell a dwelling unit within the subdivision may not sell a lot a lot or dwelling unit within the subdivision until the infrastructure serving the dwelling has been constructed as approved. [sighs] Okay.

So we can create those conditions. I was just going to say exactly that. All right. So um you want to go through conditions. right? Or we need to amend the plan. [snorts] I was not paying attention on removing the setback that's in one of the buffer areas, I guess.

So one of the conditions removing the setback lines in that buffer area on lot five. Can you just remind me that lot one doesn't apply to this? Lot one has already been sold without any infrastructure within within 5 years. So, it has to be included,

right? But what do you mean without infrastructure? Well, I mean, we're This is what it's talking about. You can't sell any lots until you have infrastructure in place. There's no infrastructure there, but apparently lot one's already been sold

because it's road has road frontage on Granite Hill Farm Road. Yes. And it also the lawyers already determined that that was the way appropriate way to deal with that. But either way, it wasn't a subdivision cuz he had only sold. A subdivision is once you have create three lots.

Mhm. So it's not a second lot. Right. Right. And that's why we're here because I sold the first one and that was within 5 years. That's why it's on the plan. Okay. ones that John proposed, right? You did those? Those were we all proposed along the way.

Oh, okay. You just wrote them down. Actually, I don't think I wrote them down. I just had the copy of them today. [laughter] I had a copy of that. I don't know who created that. I think Jill produced that for us. Really?

Or Mindy? I think it was you. I really [laughter] think it was you. Did I? Maybe. This thing's going on. It must have been Juliet. I actually recall that it was you. You [laughter] guilty, I guess. All right. So, why don't we talk?

I don't remember typing all of this, but why don't we talk through what I've got written down. So, we have two on Mindy's notes. Yeah, I had written showing forested buffers on the myar. Does that still apply? I'm not remembering.

So, Brian, what was your concern about the buffer on the current plan and the build of a lot on lot five? Correct. That overlaps with the storm water. I think it's it would say remove the uh setback lines in the within the buffer

within the buffer zone. Okay. So remove setback lines within buffer zone on lot five. Correct. Got it. Okay. So does that address the force of buffer zone myar? I cannot remember what that is. Okay. What was it? I I think you had wanted to make sure that those buffers showed up on the myar so people the recording plan showed a record of where the buffers were, which is a state standard anyway. I think that that's where that was going.

Yeah. I mean, without looking back at the minutes, I'm probably going to have a hard time remembering why I wrote that down. We're going to go with that. So, number two is submit the storm water permit to the CEO before That's a condition. All these aren't all conditions, right?

Uh yeah, that's what we're talking about now. Our conditions. Okay. But GP is not not going to want you to start construction until you have that permit anyway. Right. Right. Okay. [clears throat] As soon as you get it, deliver it to Calvin and you're off rocking and rolling.

All right. So, remove setback lands within buffer zone on lot five. submit a storm water permit to the code officer before beginning construction. Okay, so that took care of this one anyway. Okay, that's what that one essentially said.

Okay, um so then related to the road construction was road dimensions, geometry and materials are confirmed with the requirements of ordinance. So, you're looking at Okay. Yep. Um, do we need all of those? So, we need these two.

Um, I think it would be clear to it would be good to make those things clear that they apply. Okay. Just because the ordinance is a little bit fuzzy about whether you have to submit your materials for the private road if you're not paving it being accepted as a town road. Will you um read just read those for Barry?

Yes. So the applicant will submit gradation reports for the aggregate base and subbase materials to the project to the code enforcement officer for approval. The applicant will submit results of compaction testing to the code enforcement officer. Completion of the subbase and base installs. Minimum of one test for each base and subbase for every 300 lineal feet. Sample locations will be noted on the test results. Should the test fail, the applicant shall demonstrate two other randomly selected sites within 300 ft of the failed test do pass. Two out of three passing test will be deemed acceptable.

Uh, are we doing this to the court officer or to the road commissioner? One and the same at the moment. [laughter] At the time it was the same. I would say it' be code officer. Yeah, it really should probably be the code officer. Yeah. So you have one

because you're not really responsible for a private way. If he needs to use your expertise, I would hope that he reach out consult with you. Yep. The way I look at it that way there's no overlap of everybody assuming someone else did it.

So, the next one was related to road maintenance, but I think some of that is now been covered. Okay. Okay. So, what we have for road maintenance was um the agreement must describe the ownership of the road. It must include the statements in the ordinance.

Mhm. So, the other piece I had noted was and by the CEO could cover Mineral Springs, right? That's no Granite Hill, I'm sorry. Granite Hill, but as pointed out in the letter, we that's not something we can request. So I will not not make a motion to have that be a requirement.

Okay. So right now our conditions are just has to describe the ownership of the road. Has to have those five or six statements that we talked about 10 minutes ago and he has to provide the code officer with an affidavit stating he's ask the other Butters whether they want to join but they have Butters on

what's it called? Min spring road. [snorts] Bren Hill. Thank you. room maintenance. Two of those plans here. I had disappeared. I had so many time this a little while ago. All right. Number four. No. Let's see. I'll just we can share it.

applicant shall retain a professional engineer with knowledge and expertise to assure compliance with erosion control, road construction, storm water requirements of the ordinance in the main During construction of the roadway and storm water systems and provide a certification of compliance to the CEO.

Yours. Uh, it's your handwriting. So, provide maps. What is I talking about? so the next one is an amend plan to clearly show that Granite Hill Farm Road way. and then um build granite hill farm road to I don't want to say is

private road standards the wording of the I don't think that's a thing you know you can't meet all of the private road standards so I would say make improvements to granite hill farm road to meet the width requirement of the ordinance

to be deemed safe by code codes or the fire chief maybe and provide drainage to prevent further erosion. I think that's the biggest issues there is make sure we width and make sure it doesn't wash down that steep hill. Okay. So, Bill Granite Hill Farm road to width requirements in what

private road standard I I would say all requirements except for the one that you can't meet is that 8% slope for that section. But are private do private roads have to be paid? Do we have something called a private road standard?

Um yeah, on page [music] Really? Well, you could say you could say um well that's in subdivision minus the pavement. Yeah, we don't want to make a pavement. Yeah. Well, our regular we have on H89 our little road crosssection. It says for a private road.

I mean, we've got the other the I mean, it's in subdivision or in condition. Well, you've got a note on here already that says that proposed spring roads remain private and would be built to private road standards on the plan. Just leave that. Um, I'd want to make that as a condition either way, but I just want to make sure it's clear what private road standard is. I want to put private road standard and then Barry has to pave it.

Private road minus pavement any minus any paving requirements. Well, this cross-section of a private road does not show paving. So, oh wait, there's there's a section in the does. So, I would say minus paving and grade requirements or slope requirements. So you could say road construction requirements per

seven more. paving requirement and grade. Grade. private road standard and article 7G7 except for paving requirements and grade. Yeah, I'll take paving and grade requirements. so um amend plan to include note that uh Mineral Springs Road

Grant Hill. Nope. Oh, sorry. uh must be paved in accordance that uh residence. How is that referred to? the time that each dwelling unit is constructed. Constructed or permitted? going to change to. If we say it changes to you have to pave after six, then he has to

pave after six, right? Okay. shall adhere to most current. Yeah. You want to read it again? Amend plan to include a note that Mineral Springs Road must be paved in accordance with the ordinance in effect at the time that each dwelling unit is probably permanent.

Each additional unit each additional dwelling unit, yeah, is permitted. Sounds good. Constructed permanent as an Yeah, permanent. That's permanent. Okay. Isn't exactly clear. Okay. [sighs] Um and then I have Oh, no. That's remain. Okay. I'm out of conditions. Anyone else?

motion to approve the subdivision with the conditions that we just discussed. You want to read them all again? I can. So just All right. [laughter] Are you just famous? Maybe. I want to make a motion to approve the subdivision with following conditions. Setback lines within buffer zone on lot 5 have to be removed. Storm water permit has to be submitted to the code officer before construction. The road dimensions, geometry, materials have to conform to the ordinance, including submitting gradation reports for aggregate base and subbase materials um and submitting compaction testing as laid out. As we discussed previously, the mo road maintenance agreement has to be amended as um previously discussed and attached to the deeds. Um the applicant has to retain a professional engineer uh whom at the end of the project, submit a certification and compliance of the court officer. The plan has to be amended to clearly show

that Granite Hill Farm Road is a discontinued county way. Granite Hill Farm Road must be built to the private road standard in article 7G7 except for painting and grade requirements. Oh, um before when when does that need to be done?

Yeah, that's what I would say. or transfer the first lot before any additional lots are transferred. Um, and then the plan has to be amended to include a note that Mineral Springs Road must be paved in accordance with the ordinance in effect at the time that each additional dwelling unit is permitted. That's my motion.

I will second that. All those in favor? line. Finally. Excuse me. We got you across the finish line. Took a bit. Almost. Almost. [clears throat] You won't have to come here on another Wednesday night and then I don't have to.

You won't have to come back here on another Wednesday night. You can catch them during the day. Okay. Right. So when Well, I will to I've got to be here next month with the my changes on it to get it signed. Right. But you don't actually They just sign it. You

usually Yeah. Usually Jill just puts it in. Okay. So, as long as everything is met. Yeah. Tight. Okay. the same one. Yeah. I did. I did grab yours. I had one on the seat over here and it disappeared. Yeah. So, I got one. You have one. We're good.

Okay. Should have required a performance. I agree. I thought that's exactly what happened. I thought we had a cash performance guarantee. Didn't you have to show him how much money in the bank? Absolutely. Yeah. That wasn't a performance guarantee. That was just financial.

Yeah. Yeah. But what happens is a lot of times developers will build half the road and then they don't have the money to finish it and then they vanish and then it's a big mess. Roth report bad ones [laughter] Is this one mine or yours? [laughter]

I have no idea. Oh, here you two can this file. I buried it underneath mine. Don't threat me with a good time. [laughter] Come on. We didn't make it look like fun. So, Calvin, you have a complete package of all of that stuff.

Yeah. Okay. sure we got all the most recents. Yeah. Baseball. Baseball. All right. New business. Conditional use permit application for Durham Youth Ba Durham Youth Baseball. Come on up. I have an a couple additional pages to the package. I got two um additional um mail receipts um since I submitted that. And then we also found there was an error in the tax maps. So lots 25 A and B do not actually above the town property, but lot 25 does. Included in that is a written statement from the property owners of lot 25 that I talked to them and notified them of the meeting today and they're actually sitting here. So,

okay. overview of what your um application is looking to do? Uh what we want to do uh we have a a lease with the town for the 10 acres on Swamp Road. Uh we're looking to build four fields. Um two uh all for youth youth baseball for ages 4 to 12. Two will be for ages um 7 to 12. Two will be for ages four to six or youth as infield practice. Um we're going to build a parking lot that'll meet that. We're looking at putting in a 24x 24 building. uh that will serve as a storage shed, storage facilities, and then a a um snack shack for preackaged foods. We don't anticipate cooking anything on site. No lighting

planning on using portaotties uh because the groundwater tables fairly high in that area. Um, and there's no good design standards for high peak but short duration usage. Um, so I guess that in a nutshell that's it. It's a pretty critical need for the town of Durham. Currently there's only two softball fields. There's one baseball field for middle school, but that's not sized appropriately for the other ages. So there's no actual baseball fields. Um and the uh the school softball field is um dedicated to middle school softball. We get it after them. Uh the town field back here is dedicated to boosters usage. Um they the booster softball program has been growing leaps and bounds over the past uh few years to the point where they were actually using the middle school uh fields. And because they are a booster program uh through the RSU program, they trump Durham youth baseball. So, we were struggling to find

adequate field space this year. Um, I don't think any of the programs, uh, boosters or, you know, we work fairly closely with the boosters this year. I don't know if anyone was able to maintain more than a practice a week, um, which when you only have two months to play, that's really not adequate in the least. We've relied heavily on Lisbon over the past several years and really trying to get the facilities we need for our cleaners.

lease? Yes. Um, it says that the league has to prepare prepare a development plan for the site which is submitted to the selectman for approval. Yeah, we did that in December uh January. Okay. And that's been signed off on

um I don't know if they it was in the minutes that we went and they were good with it. Okay. They didn't provide any type of form for it, but Okay. That was on uh January 26 meeting the soft board. Okay. This so I drove by the site. If I if I get in the right place, it's recently been cut.

Uh it was cut probably the major pines were cut probably about eight years ago. Um and then last year we kind of fell into a deal where Sappy Paper uh came in and cleared off all the small scrubby stuff that didn't have any monetary value and they they hired a forester to come in and take care of that for us for nothing. So that was that was done under the lease as the leaser you cleared.

cutting done as the start of the project. Uh no, it was just the timing for that. We know we can't do anything until we get the permit. So, it was the a matter of trying [clears throat] to get that kind of cut down before it got so big that we couldn't get much of it dealt with.

with the state? We are. We do have a a state we are a state corporation. We are a 501c3 nonprofit with the IRS as well. have $13,000. Um, currently um we are anticipating the project cost about $400,000. Uh we do not have that right now and but part of that we are working uh currently talking with the Army Corps engineers that often do this type of project um as part of their their core training. So, we're talking to them about that. But the thing we've been running into is to get really a good financial backing. We kind of need to show that we have our permits in place, that we're serious about getting the project going. Um, so that's what we're trying to do is line that up. We've got a couple people that have volunteered to basically coordinate uh grant programs. I know Major League Baseball offers a futures program. So there's a lot of these grants that they're going to be starting to chase

corporate sponsorships, but we really wanted to get kind of the approvals that yes, we we have a plan in place um before we really start asking people for the money that we couldn't ne you know, we wanted to make sure that what we wanted to do we could do before their money. So, because in part you'll need

some storm water and some other D permits which will involve some mitigation measures and things like that. Um, and one of the concerns that I had with the project is you've got a little bit of a chicken and egg problem.

Part of what we need to do is make sure that you have the funds there to do all that. And part of what you need to do is you need to get the approval to get the funds. So, I'm assuming you're you don't have, you know, a $400,000 fairy godmother sitting out there. So, are you planning to phase this or are you what's

what's the plan as finances come in or don't? Um, what I would um we could potentially phase it um depend, you know, once we talk with the Army Corp and really getting the permits in place. Um really ideally we need at least one field as soon as possible. So if we can get enough money to do the one field then we would you know amend it to do a phase one with the other phases coming in place. You know that would include the parking lot and then whatever the one one primary field is but we would not really start working on the rest of the property unless we had complete funding.

Okay. So your plan is maybe to do one field and then the rest of the project will basically wait until you're fully funded. Correct. Okay. need to put in place? Um currently, uh we actually met with D two weeks ago. Uh initially we were under the impression that we were a permit by rule for storm water. Um they said at that time that they didn't think we would be. Um so we are working we've

um talking to an engineer over at Sebago Technics that is going to be working with us to develop some um some treatments there. We were talking about some of these jellyfish type things that can go in the gravel parking lot. Apparently, those are probably not the best alternative for us, but we do know that we've got area for some vegetated soil treatment. Um, we do know that, you know, we're currently showing on the plans the three little areas of stump dumps. According to D, we're only allowed to have one area. So, we do have some of those areas available that we can also put in some additional vegetated swailes or whatnot. Uh we can't um ponds are not going to be a suitable situation here uh just because the bottom of the pond needs to be 3 feet above high water the um high elevation of the groundwater which is all of like 16 in below ground. So

really the the vegetated swailes with under drain is probably where we're headed. What do you think? What are the cost estimates on just those mitigation measures? Well, the the initial um construction estimate we got was 325.

Mhm. Um so we figured rounding up to four would more than cover any of those additional requirements. So you're allowing about 75. 400. Correct. Ian, I could step back just to if you want to take these. I'd just like to go over this the submission. We have that in your packet. Uh just want to make sure I told you I told you it was complete, but I just want to make sure we go over these uh waiverss that they're asking for,

right? To make sure you guys are all on board with that, right? I just want to make sure I understand the project before we start going through. I just So there were three wavers or it wasn't necessarily complete but they're asking for three waivers. So

right at this site. This is all fill. Uh there will be be some cut involved for putting in the gravel parking lot, but generally speaking, yeah, it'll be fill see? I thought I saw the estimate here. What What do we have for Was it like 3,000 yards?

It's in one of the notes, the number I don't know. stored onel needed stump dumps for that. don't see a common borrow number on that unless that was an estimate. got Sebago's letter head, but correct. I don't see an engineer's name or anything like that. Are they engineering this for you?

I am engineering it. You're engineering? I am a licensed engineer with the state of Maine. Okay. So, you're bearing the soft cost for all the engineering needed. I've been doing it all on my own time, which is why it's taken this long to get this far.

And Bruce has been doing all the surveying for it. So, you said there was a 16inch water table. That that's a seasonal water table. Mhm. Okay. So, yeah, cuz we had initial we had gotten a couple test bits done for looking at doing some type of set deck in each field and decided that was not such a good option.

Bonnie Cobb had done four for us. Three were at 12 to 15. One was at 58. Okay. The modeling was all examined at about those depths. Is that how's that going to interfere with your stump dump your burying? Well, we're we're hoping to again the D has told us we can only have one.

But can you bury him can you bury him under water? No. I mean I just want it says here you can dig them 5 ft deep and I think until Yeah. water table. So the seasonal water table or until you hit water they don't want that.

They don't want the D doesn't want that. Yeah. What what D has asked us to look into is actually see if you can grind them up. Finding someone to grind them so we can use them as an erosion control mix right on site. I know Shaw Brothers does that. I don't know who else around here. I'm not sure if Crooked does that or not.

You got a couple D gave us a couple names too list. I don't want to see the thumb up, but it's it's about cost savings, especially with the high water table. Application checklist. itself. This is what Jill gave me to print out. These notes in italics, these are this is from your document.

Okay. I wasn't positive and as I was getting her stuff. Can we use um I mean it looks like we want to use at least something. [cough] I'll probably use that. All right. Okay. I think Joel just liked that you had on the table. I agree. Okay,

want to write? Do you want to be the official record keeper of will if you'd like? Sure. Okay. [snorts] Uh, the plane board may wave any of the submission requirements upon a written request of the applicant. Waiver of any submission requirement may be granted only if that information is not required to determine compliance with the approval criteria. In all instances, the burden of proof shall be upon the applicant to present adequate information. Um, every applicant applying for conditional use approval shall submit to the attention of the planning board of the town office nine copies of a complete application including a plan which shall be prepared in accordance with this article. When the owner of the property has authorized agent makes formal application, his application shall contain the following received by the CEO. Yes, we got nine copies. Uh a fully executed and signed copy of the application for conditional use

approval. We've got that. uh site plan with date scale and north point drawn at a scale sufficient to allow review of the items listed under the approval criteria but not not more than 100 ft to the inch scale for that portion of the total attractive land being proposed for development when practical standard size sheet 24x36 shall be used for all plans the plan application show and contain the following so I think we've got the site plan right

and we'll go through the owner's name and address Name of the engineers or surveyors are both preparing the plan. question. Maybe I'll share mine. Okay. Or the one I stole. engineers and the surveyor's information on here.

Okay. property owner's name on here? Uh, it should also have the town on it. All right. town's name reflect the town as the owner. Mhm. We'll need to have the engineer's info and the surveyor's info. Correct. Okay. Um, property.

You want to wave it and make it a condition of approval. wave it as an application. Sure. Okay. Sure. Speaking about the site plan, you're talking about law 26, correct? 25, I believe. No, right. So, you're talking your plan is block 26.

Yes. So, you're not going to involve 25 A and 25 B. Correct. Correct. Why did you clear it? Clear what? 25 and 25 A and 25 B is all cleared. Correct. Mhm. It's between me and and your proposal. It's not really the time for public comment.

25. It's 25 A and 25B next to us and that's 26. Can we go through the rest of the application checklist before we do that? Okay. on the plan info. Okay. So, I will move to wave that application requirement and we will put those on as conditions at the end.

I'll second that. All those in favor. All right. Names and addresses of budding property owners. The applicant shall also include a copy of the butter signed return receipt notices or shall submit a signed acknowledgement of the receipt by the butters. I think we have all that right. Okay,

complete sketch map showing general location of the site within the town as required and one above. We've got that boundaries of all contiguous property under the control of the owner or applicant regardless of whether all or part is being developed at this time.

and the location of zoning district boundaries. If the property is located in two or more zoning districts or butts at different zone and of any aquifer protection district or resource protection rural district boundaries

NA that's all in all in the residential district. We'd still love to have the zoning class here. So, is that residential? That's noted in the notes down below, I believe. Okay. Point it out to us. That'd be great. You put that

So, that one's complete. property lines of the property to be to be developed and the source of this information. The board may require a formal boundary survey when sufficient information is not available to establish on the ground all property boundaries or zoning classifications.

tax sale. Both properties are not been the property has not been paid taxes since the 1890s and 19 early 1900s. Uh they acquired Howard Man to do a boundary survey and that's what this reflected on this plan. Howard man is a vice surve I believe. So

they actually paid the town actually paid to have this property surveyed just the boundary survey portion. So when was this tax acquired? H let's see about 10 years ago the prior president on the leaf Rod Stinson uh actually found these properties that had not been paid taxes on a long time once he brought them to the extension of the town they move forward with that process

and we've had the lease since 2007 so it was prior to that Um, so we have that complete required by this ordinance. envelopes kind of a dotted line there. Am I looking at the right thing? So it's that. Yep. Do we have any other setbacks or is it just building? Um that's

resource protection or artifs at least for one of them he's not going to mitigate other than um than wetland the buffer is defined to um a structure. So Mhm. Okay, that one's complete. the location dimensions and ground floor elevations of all existing and proposed buildings on the site.

Uh not not a bench with maybe a cover over it, but that's Didn't your application talk about a shed like a 24 by 24? Yeah, that's shown. They've got a 24x 24 shown. But do we have the elevation? Yes, you do. Yeah, there's a finished floor elevation listed. 206. Oh, so we Okay.

Yeah. Finish. As opposed to an elevation drawing, right? Gotcha. Yeah. Right. All right. We've had that one before. [laughter] It's not going up very high. Yeah. Okay. The location and dimensions of driveways, parking and loading areas, and walkways existing and proposed. We've got that

driveways within 450 ft of the site. That didn't fit on the plan. There is an attached aerial image that shows all that for the past 450 ft. common subservice disposal system, the location and dimension of all provisions for water supply and wastewater disposal, including a soil test taken pursuant to the requirement of the main state plumbing code, and complete description of soil conditions, type of subservice or other wastewater disposal system and draft plumbing permit application, etc.

wastewater disposal. That's it. [clears throat and cough] the location of open drainage courses, wetlands, stands of trees and other natural features with the description of such features to be retained and of any new landscaping planned. Any buffer areas required by this ordinance will also be shown in such plan.

So I would say that that one I guess we'll have to get into it when we get in shown, but you're not showing any new landscape. You do mention buffering if I remember in your narrative, but there's nothing shown yet on the plans. Correct. We're planning on using existing vegetation. The

vegetation that's been cut down, I think [snorts] around the edges I think was left. Yeah. But you've got people across the street from your parking lot there. There's a a graded there's a burm there that we're maintaining. So that one's

we're relying on that. [snorts] intend. I guess we may once we get in the application debate whether or not we find it suitable. How's that? Fair enough. Okay. So, we'll call it complete. The direction of drainage across the site both exist. Nope. Sorry.

It's okay. Existing and proposed. [clears throat] mostly existing drainage directions? Those are proposed drain. Okay. Do you have any idea how current water currently moves through this? All the existing contours are the lighter ones.

Okay. So all the water essentially drains to the back of the property into the much larger wetland on seasonal high water. It actually overflows into this connected wetland that you see crossing that's going to be mitigated. But that only occurs when the wetland behind this property fills.

So it t generally moves towards swamp road. No completely away from small swamp road connects to the wetlands that drain out towards evergreen lane. You said it you said there's a lighter arrow or something. Is that what you said?

The lighter line work dotted lines for the existing contours. Yeah. Okay. I think he's got enough. Okay. location and dimensions of existing and proposed signs. Any signage? Uh yeah, we are showing um uh one uh 4x6 sign.

Okay. Okay. Double-sided. Uh we're also showing uh uh we're planning one way directional for the parking lot. So, we I don't believe that's necessarily required by the ordinance, but we're also showing those traffic usage signs

for the entrance exit and a do not enter at the exit. see if that complies? Torn uh 4x6 maximum size allowed. Yep. Okay. Location and dimensions of any existing easements and copies of existing covenants or added restrictions.

Are there any easements on this property? Not that was noted in the lease. Lease or on the face of the prior boundary plan reveal no easements. Okay. So any location and type of exterior lighting? None. None. So that's NA or that's

Yeah. Okay. The quantity, location, storage, and containment of any hazardous materials or petroleum products in excess of 50 gallons intended to be stored or used on the site. Will not be storing any more than 50 gallons at a time.

No. 12 on the plan. provisions for water supply and wastewater disposal location and nature of electrical, telephone and any other utility services to be installed on the site. There's one uh overhead to a pole that's going underground when it hits the property and underground to the snack shack/ storage facility. 24 x 24

is complete. Correct. that grass green? Hoses and sprinklers. [laughter] Where you getting the water from? Uh we are showing a well on the back corner of the snack shack. So there is our irrigation boat. Well, if there's a well, but no inground irrigation.

Okay. No fixed irrigation. Have you thought about putting clay down before you put the top soil on? That is actually noted in the application documentation further down in the discussion about the existing soils. So the well and the 24x 24

within the setback of the wetlands or do you think once the wetlands are filled in that's allowed? Once they're filled in they should be allowed a planting schedule key to the site plan and indicating the general varieties and sizes of tree shrubs and other plants to be planted on the site. You don't have any plantings.

Correct. As of now, permits, including but not limited to any applicable state highway entrance permit, provided, however, that the board may approve conditional uses subject to the issuance of specific state approvals and permits where it determines that it is not feasible for the applicant to attain them at the time of conditional use review.

This is definitely condition. That's one of their waiverss they've asked for. what are we calling that? Waved. We need a motion to wave that. We [snorts] Is it a wave though? I mean, they're going to provide it. We're just Okay. So, waving it at the application. I agree. All right. Motion to wave the requirement for having state approvals and permits at the time of application review. I'll second it. All those in favor.

Okay. The schedule of construction including anticipated beginning and completion dates. That's their next waiver that they've asked for. And we did provide discussion within the packet as well. gave you, there's a note that talks about that on the bottom of the page

based on kind of when the money's coming in. Yeah. Exactly. So you guys were also the limitations on commencing the project. Is that right? Reading that. Do we have the authority to do that? I guess that's not I guess we can talk about that later. Right.

Right. Okay. [clears throat] So are we calling that complete or waved? I mo I move that we wave this requirement and make it a condition of okay permit. I'll second it. All those in favor. and complete cost estimates of the development. a time schedule for construction and sufficient financial information to determine the applicant's financial capacity to meet air and water pollution control standards and other standards and criteria contained herein. The following submissions indicate adequate financial capacity. A letter of commitment from a financial institution or funding agency for a specified amount of funds and the amount necessary to finance the development in conformance herewith and their use. Or the most recent corporate annual report and supporting documents indicating sufficient funds to finance the development and conformance herewith, or copies of bank statements or other evidence indicating availability of the

unencumbered funds sufficient to finance the development and conformance herewith. when the developer will personally finance the project. So, this is the one that I have a lot of trouble with. Um, and I guess we can wave it if folks are comfortable and talk about it in the approval criteria, but this one's a problem for me.

them getting approval before they can really know the answer to that question. the submission um of financial information at this stage uh contingent on us addressing that in the uh approval review process. Second. All those in favor?

A detailed description of the proposed conditional use, how it will operate, and any facts the applicant wishes to bring to the attention of the planning board, including information on financial capacity, neighboring water supplies, design of the project, and other information needed to demonstrate compliance with approval criteria, guidelines, and standards set forth below. Description will indicate how the proposed use will meet each of the general applicable performance standards of the land use ordinance. In addition to the application material required, the planning board may require the applicant or others to undertake studies were deemed necessary, desirable to protect the public convenience, safety, health, and welfare when considering the application. I think we have that coat in the truck.

Complete. Complete Uh, nine. Where's nine? Oh my gosh, that's on another page. Uh, nine does not apply. Not apply. Never mind. I will second that motion. Was I making it? You did make it. Let me find this application was complete.

I second [laughter] that. Who's in favor? Okay. No. Do you want to take public comment? Members of the public here want to make any public comment? can come up. There's maybe some room. Yeah. Okay. Go right ahead. Say you can you just for the microphone. Sorry, the microphone for the

this thing here. Yeah. I just want to say your name. Uh you'll have to pardon me if I ask silly questions. We were just informed about this uh two days ago. Uh Monday night we were informed that this was a meeting on this. We had nothing. We knew nothing about it. We never received anything from the town that this was going on. We never knew that that was going to be a ball field. So that's a little upsetting in itself.

Sorry. Sorry. Can you Can you please say your name and My name is Tom Fornier. Okay. And I live on 231 Swamp Road, lot 25. the tax map is wrong. These two are flip-flopped. Is that correct? Is that correct? How can they be flip-flopped as property on the other side?

You were about 26. Are you telling me that your map is incorrect or that optim? I don't know. That's what I'm asking. Yes. So I I I can shed some light on this. So, we sent letters to all the abutters per the tax map, which is 25A, 25B. 25A is owned by Mrs. Lois Carter. I got a phone call from her over the weekend. I returned it on Sunday night. I went over and talked to her Sunday night. I have a picture of the of the map that they had for the development, which shows Mrs. Carter on the opposite side of lot 25 from lot 26 which shows I mean it pretty clearly shows that 25A and B are on the

evergreen lane side of map of lot 25. So we'll we'll get that map corrected. We'll send it to the mapping people and get it corrected. So what they've so actually then this um 1.83 83 acres and 2.53 acres. He also clearcut along with the 10.3.

No, that's those two lots are where the 25 is. The 25 is where those two lots should be. Okay. So, you cut your 10 12 acres right up against my tree line. Right up against my property line. Dead on it. No buffer, no nothing. You're right on my property line. Our concern is that um

he's going to build one hill where the car is going to park. It's a tough road anyway going down swamp, it's used as a shortcut. And so the traffic there is a huge concern of ours. The other thing is that when the when the fields are complete and there is a parking lot, are there any provisions for security in that parking lot at night?

Are they going by the ordinances? Are they going to be gated? Let's let him finish. Are they going to be gated or are we going to have to deal with I know when I was younger and I had a place to go with a young lady and and whatever. Uh yeah, and Swamp Road is a fairly desolate road. There's not a lot of houses on that road and I really don't need to have that 100 ft from my house. Okay.

So, it's a Sir, what was before it was cleared, what was the buffer next to your property on that? It was It was 10 acres of woods. But I mean, so I heard it was sort of scrubby little saplings. I'm asking you to tell me what it was.

It was 10 acres of woods. It was woods. It was trees. You saying was it mature big trees or was it small? When you say big, how you got to give me a We're talking it was, you know, 12, 14inch trees. Yeah. Is Is this what it looked like before it was cleared?

I think that's current, isn't it? I think that's a Is that a current? That is prior to the remaining hardwoods being taken off last 10 years ago. A little more clear than than this is. So if you wanted to see what it's right,

I think this is there's no date on this. Yeah, that was after the initial clearing. Yes. from going through. I just like to have provisions for our one for our safety and because we're getting older and for our privacy. I coached for 30 years. I know the passion behind it. I know how hard it is to find ice time even though he's looking for baseball diamonds. I was a hockey coach. I know what that's like. But this is this is our life. This

is our retirement. This is and we really don't want to disrupt that with uh things [snorts] going on that we don't have any control over at night. Uh whether it be traffic or hooligans or snowmoilers or four-wheelers or whatever and we'd like to have provisions for that.

Can you tell me a little bit more about your concerns about the traffic? the traffic with that swamp road is a shortcut for everybody that goes from Auburn to uh almost anywhere. Bath, Brunswick, they all go that way. It's a it's a road that is not patrolled very well by the police. Um they uh there's a lot of speeding on that road. So the parking lot that they proposed isund would hold 108 cars. So if all fields are going that just seems like a lot of traffic for that one road and it's only going to go one way according to what uh what Mr. How is saying. So that means going one way is going to be when they're leaving and all coming from the other way when they're coming in.

Okay. So that's a concern. all 108 parking spots would be leaving at the same time. That's that's for four fields. Games never all end at the same time. Never. They never do and I'm aware of that. That will be staggered. But um part of the ordinances was the road capacity and we are well within the even with 108 if you put all 108 of those at the peak hour were still well within the capacity of Swamp Road.

Y You come up and sit. Do you mind? Oh, no. You can. across the street from the proposed ball field. And um the concerns I have um are this parking lot here. You say the existing BM uh that might cail the the lighting from the vehicles there at if you're at road level, but my house is across the street on the hill a little bit. I can see the entire field area. So any and all uh

traffic is going to be visible to me. Um, according to the paper I read, there's no existing lighting going in at the time, but at the end of it, it says, well, exactly that, no proposed lighting at this time. In the future, that may be. Then there's night games. Now, all this park all the cars in the parking lot are are shining in my bedroom. That's my concern. In order to do the lighting, we would have to come back to the planning board to amend the conditional use permit.

Yeah. Well, I know that, but I might not be living there at that time. The other person's responsibility. I'm just looking out for my f my investment on the other side of the road. in the ordinances is that the parking is supposed to be shielded from the road public roadway, not not that we have to shield it from

hilltops, but we can deal with that when we consider it. Promise we're just taking public comment at this point. exits are going to be, and I was told uh they're going to be offset for my driveway. So, I have no problem with that. I'd like to see this happen, but um I'm just concerned with the with the

lighting issue and also as he uh mentioned the the traffic coming up this hill from the town of Durham. There's it's a hill and a slight turn there and traffic is really bad there. You can't see down over the hill for any oncoming traffic. And you got the entrance right there. Um I don't really see swapping them would be any different because of the visibility in this area here.

Mhm. And also um somebody mentioned security here. As this land has been opened more and more, I'm seeing more and more ATVs, snowmobiles, motorcycles on that property. If there's no security there, um that's going to be a parking lot for snowmmoiling, atving, and motorcycleycling. I'm the vice president of the Thompson Trail Riders, snowmobile and ATV club, and we're constantly getting calls from farmers, golf courses to come and repair their property because ATVs and motorcycles decided to go out and do donuts in the middle of the field. Um, I'm just bringing that to your attention that maybe you need to look at some sort of security.

Thank you. [clears throat] Hi. I have a couple more concerns. Can you say your name, please? My name is Deborah Fornier. Um, you mentioned that you're going to be irrigating the fields now. How you're putting in a well. How is that going to impact all the neighbors wells if you're going to be using water all summer all summer long to water those fields?

treatments may follow manufacturers's instructions. Well, so does DEET. So how can you protect the birds and the wildlife if it's not um organic or up to government standards for environmental purposes? That would be covered under the storm water treatment plan that's required by D.

So they use safe products. expect that we will fall under a a required individual permit. There will be treatment areas for that. Uh I don't understand what treatment areas mean. areas where that will not run off onto it contains the water and treat and uh gets treated through vegetation rather than allowing that to get into uh either the groundwater or adj sheet flow off onto adjacent properties.

Yeah, but it's more than just the water. It's the grass, the land, everything that's going to be affected if you treat it. I mean, that is something to consider. Environmental is big big deal. Well, that's one of our approval criteria and we'll consider that. Okay.

So, okay. [clears throat] Oh, and also you already mentioned up brought up the lights, which was another one of my concerns because you were contradictory in your proposal. You said there weren't going to be any lights and then later on you said not at this time, which was a little touchy there. Um,

and I think you're very optimistic about the traffic because I see big problems with the traffic. And um, Rocky was right. When you come down that hill, if you're coming down Durm, that intersection there is absolutely dangerous. And you're going to have maybe teenagers driving at night. It is going to be very dangerous. I don't know if you know what I'm talking about. The area I'm talking about. Yeah.

The Route 9. Yeah. I mean, that is horrible. So, you might want to consider that. That's all. Maybe put up some kind of I don't know iridescent things on the road or something, but I don't know. But it is scary. I I'm scared. I don't need to go on it.

I've been on swamps for 16 years and seen three deaths there. Well, three is more than you need. Yes. So, that's it. Thank you. Swamp Road and uh it's great to uh be here and to hear my neighbors uh and fellow residents on Swamp Road hear their comments about this project. So, uh, I've heard a lot of good comments and at least in my opinion and, uh, over the past couple of months, I've had the opportunity to work a little bit with both, uh, Joe and Bruce on this project

and just helping out in a a few small areas. But in doing that, I've had a chance to review the application and attend their project meetings. And I have to say as a uh a person who's a professional planner, as a professional town planner, I'm impressed by what I've seen. I think that they've put together a quality package. Considering that this is a community-led project that is uh being put together by volunteers and uh we've got a lot of capacity here and I think uh it's a great opportunity for the town to uh have them both involved in the project. In my own opinion, uh I guess looking more broadly, I feel that having ball fields on Swamp Road and here in the community would be beneficial to Durham. Um in a number of ways, I think that these are the kind of facilities that families like to see when they think about where they'd like to live, uh when they're making choices about where they'd like to live. And uh also, you

know, here in Durham, we're kind of, of course, you know, that's the old adage of the bedroom community. Uh we don't have a really a village center. And uh things like this helped to strengthen community places where people neighbors can meet and they can talk and and their kids can do stuff. So, um with regard to the traffic area, uh I've lived in my house for 12 years. I think the speed limit on the road is too high and I know how uh DOT calculates uh their speed limits based on percentile and you could probably argue with them until you're blew in the face and they probably wouldn't change it. Uh now that said uh one thing that does help to change speed which is based on percentile is basically uh more

traffic. It's creating some molasses, so to say. And uh I do think swamp road, the commuter traffic, it travels too fast. But I think something like this could be beneficial from the perspective of uh getting people to slow down. Maybe even eventually getting which, you know, I see that area as a neighborhood, getting DOT to lower the speed limit uh somewhat in that area.

with a scope for a project that is, you know, I've I've seen in my career, I've seen a few similar projects in small communities and um in my opinion, I think their scope is realistic. They're not aiming too high. They're not trying to uh you know, do lighting and do a big concession project and uh you know, bathrooms and all those other things. I think the scale is right for our community and I think they've tried hard to minimize some of the impacts here uh for example with the lighting and the septic with the waste hauled off site. So, you know, I guess I look at this project and I think that uh there's still quite a bit of work to do, but I think it's a great opportunity for the community and and uh I'm really uh really pleased to see the uh the Little League bring this forward. So, and I I plan to help where I can. That's it. Thank you.

Thanks. Okay. there's some from it and I can type. Approval criteria. Yeah. Yep. You can follow him in the audience, I guess. But page 54. pollution. expressed about water pollution. concerns about what was going to be used

um on the fields um for treatments and how that would impact um the neighbors and also um how the well and irrigation might impact their water supply as Well, I think that's number two. Oh, sorry. We'll get to that number two.

So, I mean in our standard um makes reference to meeting the standards of the main D and it says applicant will not degrade any of the surface or subsurface water supplies below the state's drinking water standard. the state secondary drinking water standard.

such a way to be adverse to affect fish, plants or animals might which might live in around or drink from such water which is is consistent with the concerns raised by the utters. maintain the fields. yourselves. Do you have a contract? Do you How does that work for you guys?

be determined. Um I I have contacted a couple local um landscape companies. Mhm. And was kind of quoted about $7,000 a year for maintenance of the the facilities. Um you know, once we have the facilities, raising money actually gets a little easier because we can sell science space on the fencing or whatnot. So that long term

Except you won't be selling science space. then you'd be in violation of our sign ordinance, right? Not facing the road [laughter] in the ball field complex. Yeah. Sorry to interject. Yeah. The ball fields all face the road with the signage.

Yeah. Oh, no. Not the back stops, but usually signage is not on the back stops. So, does this ball field violate sign ordinance, right? Or that one. I don't know. It's town property. Signage on the fence. So, we're not talking about the conditional use for that. That's town property. It's a town project. If the code officer doesn't feel it's a violation, that's not my problem. This one happens to be my problem tonight. So if you want signs on those fencing and you want us to approve that as part of this, we will consider it under the sign ordinance. That was a throwaway comment that I suggest you take back and we will [laughter] ignore.

Okay. Do you do you have fencing? You have fencing here. Yes. Entire things can be fenced in all ball fields by the league need to be fenced. There's a roughly that's one of the bigger expenses. There's essentially 1450 linear no excuse me 2500 linear feet of chain link fence on this property. So

yeah so that'll cut down on the four-wheeler and directly correct traffic. Yeah. Okay. The only thing it doesn't have is a chain link encompassing the property. It's just all comp each field is encompassed by fence. So that won't fix the concerns about the [snorts] parking lot

which we can get to. Mhm. what I'm about to see here. Um, I think once we get through the permitting, the the development of the site, the runoff from the fields, the parking areas, and things like that will be all be mitigated. But I think what we're we're maybe lacking is a little bit of definition of the operating uh how the fields will be fertilized and weed killers and and those things. um to make a judgment on the impact of

the project to the environment piece. So, do you think that's something that can be addressed through a condition or do you think that's something we need them to give us a [snorts] plan for us to evaluate? thing for athletic fields?

Not that I'm aware of. Usually you call it a integrated pest management plan and I'm sure they must have dealt with this must there must be a protocol that you could get from someone. what I'm struggling with is you know there's not a lot shown in here for the water treatments yet. Um, I think that's going to change the character of the site a bit. Would be nice if we had a little bit more idea of

how this storm water was going to be engineered for this. If you've already had your D. Sounds like you've already had your pre-application meeting. No, it was a pre- pre-application meeting. How' you did you slip a $20 bill to get [laughter] that? Actually, when we first started this project, like eight years ago, we started including them right off the bat because we knew about the wetlands being an issue and we

wanted to make sure that what we whatever we could fit in there, we could You guys don't want to do that until you have our approval. You try and put this all on me. The problem is is the storm water and and tier one permits going to be like $1,500. So, why spend another $1,500 and

then turn around and find out, oh, planning board doesn't quite like this, then have to go through the permitting again. That's on top of the construction costs. Okay. Part of the hard part for us is it's your burden to prove to us that it meets all these criteria. And I I completely understand your chicken and egg problem, but if we don't have enough information to base it on, and you're like, well, this may move here or it may move there, it's too um it's too

amorphous for us to to make a decision. Well, what's there really can't move a whole lot because there's no [laughter] space to put anything else. I get that. We are maxed out. concerns, John? I mean, I I understand not with the maintenance.

No, I I guess that's the issue. If it gets permitted, then it's going to exceed Durham's ordinance standards. So, I I guess that's where we go with it, even for the maintenance. No, I think we need we I think we should include a request that they submit uh their their management plan for the property.

Do you know if this has a management plan, the code officer? Yeah. To us, but I don't know the code. Well, it's that's the thing I'm struggling with is I mean it's our obligation to Right. find and we don't have something we can point the code officer to to compare it to.

Right. Right. I I'm sure Dennis has something at the school. That's what I was think. But there's got to be a protocol for actually there's a plan with the uh school on a project that we approved many years ago that was under the town. So there is a manual plan for that that should be able to be pulled out thick book about this thick in my cellar.

Uh property, right? It is. Yeah. Mhm. So just like the school where a lot of this was just done. is we could go through the rest of our criteria. Yep. And table this until next month and give them the opportunity to supplement with information that we need. Okay.

Does that make sense? Yep. Okay. We could look at what Free Port just did what they what were their track. They might have It's artificial. [laughter] They won't be I know that one intimately. No, they won't be treating that then.

What about the roads? They must have does have and I actually believe it's actually might even be online. So they must No, it's owned by the town. Yeah, it's m actually maintained by the RSU, though. The RSU is contracted by the town to do the maintenance.

skip water quality, right? Uh, yep. skip number one. I'm a little confused. We're skipping number one. So, it's a new water air pollution. Different sheet here. We're on approval criteria. Number two, as sufficient water for the foreseeable needs of proposed use.

What causing unburden unreasonable burden on the existing water supply want to be used? this. Yeah. Are you in an aquafer? We are not. putting in will be for watering the fields. Yep. That kind of thing. and a water supply for the snack shack or

there will be no potable water. with the testing and treating and water. Mhm. right? Correct. Because if you're irrigating, then you're going to need to tell us the volume of the water you're going to use to do that. And we're going to have to determine that that isn't going to impact the additional butters. If you're telling me you are going to irrigate, then you need to give us an estimated volume of water and some burden that shows that the well can produce that without [clears throat] back to an aquifer.

So I mean I think the hard part is this says water will be available for irrigation purposes. Well, irrigation uh water typically goes right back into the same water source because it just comes up and goes right back into the ground. So, it's it's all sand there. So,

and that's fine if the engineer wants to provide documentation to that and that might help us, [clears throat] right? kind of management field management plan in terms of how water supply and how what how things are going to be watered and all that.

Okay. So we will suggest that we receive more information on that. erosion or reduction in the capacity of the land to hold water so that a dangerous or unhealthy condition may result. control plan, but as Joe pointed out uh in the ordinance, it didn't require it, but that doesn't mean the plan wouldn't couldn't ask for one,

and that that will be required for the DAP storm water permit. wanted the stump dumps to go away cuz they wanted to use that for the erosion control, right? That's their one of their new favorite ponies, but we don't have enough information without that plan to I mean I don't I think that's what they're asking for. I don't know how you make that determination without that.

Do we think that that would be met through the permit the state permitting process? Yeah, I I would be fine with making a soil a erosion control plan condition of the permit. The submission of a control plan prepared by a appropriately qualified engineer

to whom? To the code enforcement officer or the planning board. To the planning board. I would make it to the planning board. So you be part of your final sign off just like we do in the subdivision. Do you want more info on that one? Yeah.

clarification for my purposes where we are requesting that the that we the permit the conditional use permit be based upon getting state permits in the future. that soil erosion control plan will be part and as required per the storm water permit. So

would that would we need to prepare a separate one for the town or would that be you submit the one you've prepared for the maint because we wouldn't have final approval till we had all the all the other permits in place. So that would be the same plan. Correct.

Correct. Yeah. We don't Well, same plan. I want to make sure we're clear on expectations. So, what we're going to do tonight is we're going to go through and we're going to approve whatever we feel like we can approve. And if there are things we can't we don't feel like we have enough information to approve, we will table this if you would like us to. And you could submit additional information including the erosion control plan. So, you won't have our approval until we can evaluate that erosion control plan. can be the same plan that you're going to submit to D, but we're not going to give you your approval even with conditions until we get that and a few other pieces. [snorts] Just want to make sure we're all on the same page.

We're here to see if you guys like this. [laughter] Well, that's not an approval criteria. So, okay. So, we'll just keep going. As long as we're on the same page, we'll just keep going through the criteria. [laughter] If we had a sketch plan process, this would be so much easier cuz you guys, all right, we're not too far off target.

We can get there. I know. Yeah, this is brutal. [laughter] This is brutal. And it's past my bedtime. Will that cause highway or public road congestion or unsafe conditions with respect to use of the highway or public road existing or proposed? I know traffic was one of the concerns that came up, right? on their plan they do show that they meet the site requirements as required by the ordinance. I mean whether you want to have that reviewed independently or have

does this require an entrance state road. No, it's not. It's a town road. There is additional um discussion on that as well under the per uh the performance standards. Um item 6F3 talks about the the road capacity itself.

give us volumes of how often how many how many you know how many vehicles how often for the site? Yeah. So in that section uh basically what I used uh is main DOT has a map viewer program. Uh they list an AAD for swamp road of 1370. Um a very common um conversion to a peak hour is 10% of that. Um

there is a directional distribution. We're assuming 50% for that. Uh brings the hourly volume on swamp road to 70. Even if you applied all 108 parking spots in the same peak hour, which is probably not quite realistic, you're still well low of a volume of a thousand vehicles per hour for swamp route. a theoretical capacity.

site distance? I I actually check sight distance from both locations um for both as if a car was going the wrong way through the parking lot and through the right way. And we more than exceed there's actually uh there's a plan view for each entrance that kind of shows the sight triangles and then there's a profile that shows that we're meeting the 3 and 1/2 ft uh eye and or 3 and 1/2t object and 4 and 1/2t eye

with no impingement on that miles per hour. And what did you have what did you come up with? Um I only check that we at least that we exceeded the 425. I do not calculate the actual provided. Okay. in traffic coming measures, signage, and such if we were to construct an athletic facility out there, a recreational facility out there to address the concerns of kids and kids in highspeed vehicles? That would be

as a road commissioner, not your CEO robe. Yeah, it's up to the board as to what you want to impose. But if you want to put sign signage in each direction, so many feet from I could check the MUTCD book and see what uh is allowed. And so you don't know offhand what would be allowed. I'd have to look at the manual and see.

children playing signs on a dead end neighborhoods on a through street with a with an athletic complex, I think it would be appropriate to add some signage and then maybe in condition that they may pay the bill. But I was I know I know that the schools used the neon yellow and I know that you're not allowed to use that anywhere else. So, I don't know if this would apply if we could use it here where it's

No, I I think pro I think the children at play or whatever. That sign is probably the most appropriate. We could put up some signs. It said, you know, traffic entering ahead. I mean, I can look in the manual. It tells me what I can use.

road like I say I've been there 16 years knows that 45 is not the huge speed limit at any point it's it's at 5:00 to 6:00 in the morning it's 65 sometimes 70 yeah the 45 is the minimum sure okay so although Though this isn't a a state road, uh DOT still sets the speed limit. Now, they do have provision to lower the speed limits around schools. I don't know about athletic complexes. It might be called to Tim Susi. Uh the guy who's the traffic engineer for the state to see if uh what the what the state is

for for speed limits. Something more complicated than just a warning sign. It might allow you to lower the speed limit next to a ball field. It might be worth seeing what that standard is. can't require the applicants to lower the speed limit

for personally lowering it. Uh, information to decide this? Do we think we have enough information to approve it? or do we think I don't have enough information to disapprove it on this criteria? You could make a condition that the road commissioner will uh verify site distance or something to that. Uh

any information that the site distances are incorrect as calculated right? Uh I mean we generally accept the engineers submitted site distances. Um I'm okay with site distance. I'm okay with the volumes. Um it would be great to have some provisions for for traffic calming near the facility. Um I just question whether we can put that on the applicant on a town road. I guess was is my piece. Now that would be up to the town. The town could put those we we I mean, I guess you could ask them to pay for them, but we'd have to install. It's in the public right away. So,

right. Could we ask the applicant to approach MD dot to get a determination as to whether or not we can lower the speed limit or what? Calvin has to do the town. Yeah. [clears throat] That has to be done through the town.

Yeah. Yeah. Private. Just don't let them do a speed study out there. You may end up with a 50 m per hour speed limit. And that sometime and that sometimes that sometimes does happen. You ask them to go out and review and they actually up the speed limit

because it's based on the 85 percentile and where the 85th percentile is always over 45 miles hour. H that's meeting our ordinance. So just sounds like unfortunately this we're probably going to be doing a site a sitewalk at some point. We could probably look at that then and see what it feels like out in the field.

Oh, do we have to do the same work? uh view of what the neighbors are seeing and feeling. Okay. So this will not cause additional highway or public road congestion or unsafe conditions or respect to the road as proposed because

because it has adequate sight lines and driveways are located appropriately. the actual performance standards, if we're going to go through those separately, trust me, baddy, there's a whole bunch of other stuff about how they construct their entrance way and such.

I will second the motion. All those in favor? disposal in conformity with the state plumbing code and all other applicable regulations. does conform with the state plumbing regulations with the use of portable toilets provided by a are they licensed? Uh, so there are standards for how many toilets per person. So I would like to impose that as a condition.

What you could ask for and what's required in a shoreland zone is that the applicant has to produce show a contract with a pumping company to maintain them because you can put them in and if they're not going to be maintained.

maintenance plan for those as well. So that an off season maybe they're offsite so they don't attract like in the shoreline in the shoreline zone you have to if you're going to have a site down within so many feet of the water you have to produce you have to show or demonstrate a a yearly contract with the company company with the company that's going to maintain yours. I can tell you what we the Durham Youth Baseball League has been doing for probably three four years is during baseball season we have contracted with GA Downey to provide a portaotty at the school. They have come they maintain it monthly. It's likeund $105 a month I believe that we've paid just because with the RSU we don't have the access to the the facilities and the school building. So that you know we would be looking at that same arrangement where we would be renting the board of bodies which would be inclusive of the

maintenance on that. Uh we're anticipating two right now potentially three. And it's one of those things where there's no, you know, it's kind of like with the the Leech Field septic design. There's nothing really that covers

this type of this type of usage. So the the the thing in our advantage is if two is not cutting it, then we get a third. But I mean, and if this is if this is phased, it could be five years from now before we actually need a third.

get it all done and get the heck out of there. But if you phase this project and you put in just one field first, what are you going to do for parking? Then the anticipation would be that we would build the entire parking facility all at once

before you put in the park first one. Mhm. not dealing with different contractors and different gravel. It's all the same. different motion. Do we want them to propose a plan for the porta potties or do we just want to put in a condition?

I don't think we need a plan for portaotties. I think the condition that they okay have a contract in place. So then I will make a motion to find that this criteria is met uh on the condition that the facilities meet um state standards for the number of individuals and then appropriate maintenance plan is in place maintenance contract.

Second. All those in favor? adequate fire protection. you talk to the fire chief and all about this. If not, do you know where the nearest hydrant is to this? There's a dry hy there's a fire pond on Evergreen Lane. Then you've got Newb Brook at the other end of the road.

There's really not much to burn, but I And then you also have Meadow Brook just past Evergreen Lane. Then we got 124t building. Mhm. adequate fire protection with limited structures and nearby fire ponds for water source. I'll second that. All those in favor

the scenic or natural beauty of the area, aesthetics, historic sites or rare and irreplaceable natural areas. any deer wintering areas identified by the main department of fish and wildlife or or other agency or any public rights for physical or visual access to water bodies.

it's part of your D permit, you're going to need to request all those letters from we have already made contact with uh MHPC and so IFW for the deer wintering areas and special rare uh showing that. Yeah. Have you talked to them about that? Um they weighed uh fish and wildlife weighed in on on the pool on the property, but there was no mention of any deer wintering or anything like that.

So, one of the they were involved as part of the um there probably isn't any wintering area anymore. [laughter] There might have been one time wasn't it wasn't going to go there, but [laughter] yeah, they were involved as part of the wetland evaluation.

to the biologist and get that letter. There's a standard process right on their websites to do all that. Natural resources program, Historic Preservation, and W. You're going to need a ETP permanent anyway. this will be looking at setbacks and all that other stuff.

What was the decision on number seven? Was we need more info? More info. Do we want to come back to number eight after we do the rest of it or not? It doesn't. allowed use. It's a conditional use in the zone. What zone are we in?

Rural residential transitional district. So, minimum lot size doesn't count. Doesn't matter. We have the road frontage. Setbacks don't matter because of the structure. Structure height is less than 35 ft. There are no dwelling units.

Maximum coverage for impervious surfaces they meet. Do we know that? Are the ball fields considered impervious surfaces? They are not. The skin infield sure as hell would be. I don't think they would. I don't think they would exceed that. D has not said that actually they just considered the gravel parking lot.

I've actually asked that question directly and they said no the organic mat as actually being where the walkways are instead of the fields. So impervious surface for our ordinance include the buildings concrete asphalt and all their similar surfaces that shed water so as to prevent absorption to the ground at the point where the water first hits the ground.

clay field, I feels like concrete. I mean, you guys probably meet the numbers, but did you run them? Do we have the numbers? Impervious area for the parking area is 41,480 square ft compared to an entire site of 10 acres.

Yep. Yeah. And we're allowed 20, right? Where are you looking? Uh, I don't remember now. 25 for impervious. Maximum lot coverage for impervious is 25. So you're at 10 with all with the parking lot not including any fields fields and not including the walkways which is considering possibly wanting to add

fully Are they going to be all clay or they're going to be grass with just the clay? Grass with just the clay on the base path area. Okay. So, they're not all clay in the field for softball. Correct. appropriate for them to submit the areas at least in a report to us so that we have something to backs up that you met their owness requirements and it's not just our judgment of the areas on the map. I I don't think you're going to have a problem meeting the standard. I just we should have the documents so we can back ourselves up.

Yeah. everything that we have to do for D. You're going to want the full package at your fingertips. That's what it sounds like. Pretty much. Yep. Just like any other town was going to make you do. We're there. Next step.

want to be 100% certain. I read it all enough. Should have spent more time with this. any concern about the building you know the fencing back stops and other things in the setback area. So I think setback how did we define you know I just want to double check how structure is defined.

So setback is defined to a principal or accessory structure. Okay structure is defined. Let's go back to our anything constructed or erected with a fixed location on or in the ground or attached to something having a fixed location on or in the ground. excluding driveways, walkways, patios, and other paved surfaces and fences and stone or brick walls used for area separation and not as part of a building. So, I don't think the fences count.

So, the fences that's the one that was setback though. So we consider the back stop part of the fencing. Um I don't know. [laughter] Can I have a fence? Generally it is [clears throat] stop as fence, but in 10 years when the fundraising group wants to go put a back put a uh dugout right here, then you're going to have a structure. And so you might want to think about your layout. I know you don't have any room to move things around, but years from now somebody's going to show up want to build that. Code enforcement officer is going to be the bad guy for saying you can't put a dug out there because you're in the setback. [snorts]

We can have an A and a B field. [laughter] All good stuff. We just provide sunscreen. Uh, so where do we come out of that? impervious surface. Yes. Yes. Um, the other piece to that one are the Mhm. What we're calling this

their performance standards for recreational facility. That probably falls under this number eight. 32. So, adequate off- streetet parking for anticipated maximum attendance, containers and facilities for rubbish collection and removal. Adequate screening buffer area or landscape provisions provisions shall be built, planted or maintained to protect adjacent residences from adverse noise, light, dust, smoke and visual impact.

Standard is ordinance found in section seven in this article governing such impact shall use to be shall be used to judge the compliance of a facility with such standard. So I think that we have that separately, don't we? And landscape shows up in the performance standard for conditional use as well.

So, do you want to talk about landscape since it's [clears throat] over there? So, that's probably one of my my bigger concerns with the job is if you're going to have this vehicle traffic here, these cars parked here. There's a little bit of a burm there, but by the time you build up your road and do everything else, I don't think this adequate to proet protect the neighbors on the other side from all the parking lot activity. Um, I really do think you need to show some landscape screening um for the neighbors on that side. I don't necessarily because the plant gets cut so tight it's hard to judge um towards the Brunswick side of the line what might be necessary here uh for screening. It appears that there's you know quite a bit of vegetarian area here but I think I'm not sure about to this a butter to plan was the north so

and we had some concerns expressed about that as well right I think a landscape buffering plan would be appropriate showing what exists for natural buffering already and what you would propose for additional buffering um for the site

is left for each tree and then supplement those trees if you have a wood you know if you have a if you want delineated wooded area that that here's the trick is it needs to be your buffer you can't count his buffer No, agreed. There's [laughter]

so if there's nothing there, there's essentially a 10 15 foot area of swath that's still on this property that not one tree was touched. All right. So, do we need to know where those trees are? Not individually. If you want to show me what you have for a buffer and probably some pictures from the site might help the board visualize it. Okay.

And there's a I don't know if you've looked at it already, but we've got a specific section on landscaping and buffering. Which page? Uh 61. of the neighbors. So yes. Okay. So that was eight. capacity. And this is my concerns.

Is that um the biggest part of my concern is that this gets started and then never gets finished and particularly the mitigation measures. So, I think we'll take a pass on this one for now, but maybe consider whether you want to do phased, whether you want to tell us you're not going to start until you can prove to the court officer that you have $100,000 in the bank, whether you want to post a performance bond, like something to make me feel better about this. [laughter]

You don't want to feel better. Um, and I'm I'll you know, straight up I'm extremely impressed by the package you guys put together. I've worked with a lot of nonprofits and this is a really professional package for a volunteer organization, but it is a volunteer organization and track records of Yeah, you get it. I'm preaching to the choir. Um, help me feel more comfortable [laughter] with this, please. Especially with all the wetland mitigation and everything that needs to happen. let the begging begin, [laughter]

right? permit, there actually is not required mitigation. It is just the tier one permit. Okay. So, does the planning board want to do you have a cut off time or Yeah, we're way way later. an hour ago. [laughter] longer.

Yeah. No, I'm done. [laughter] do you guys want to run through quickly the rest of the approval criteria and then table this until next month? Yeah. Does that make sense? There's a couple here that are no-brainers. I think

the lake Honda stream when you table it, are we required to notify all the butters again of the next meeting? Yeah. that it's been tabled is is noticed to to everybody who might have wanted to participate. Um and actually we'll address when you want us to table it to next month or with you one more time.

okay uh so whenever situated whole or par within 250 I don't think we have any of those here right so that's so I will make a motion to find that that one does not apply there's a second and everybody votes in favor of it

all in [snorts] um will not a loaner in conjunction with existing activities adversely affect quality your groundwater. I think we're going to get some more info on that. Correct. Um, we have one of those flood maps in the package.

Not in a flood zone. So, we can we're good. So, NA cuz it's not a flood zone. Mhm. have an adverse impact on spawning grounds fish aquatic life that's kind of along with the other one y that's just the letter from fish and wildlife

correct um will not cause noise glare or vibration to disturb the peaceful enjoyment of the adjacent property so I think the the landscape buffering ties back into this this criteria as well. I think wait for the additional information to review. And

performance criteria um obviously what the the best I was able to come up with is there was a case study um I think down in it was presented at a a noise um um conference. Mhm. Um, someone had built a a field complex, had like four soccer fields, eight baseball fields, some T-ball fields, and it was within 15 ft of property lines. And they had actually measured the the sound and it from what

I recall, and I actually discussed this under the performance require 14. um with only with the fields being within 15 ft of the property lines, they were measuring the the noise um at the lines at 50 to 60 dB uh with occasional peaks of 70. We're not having lights. We're not having, you know, there's no intention of PA systems or something like that.

It's not a lot of whistles in baseball. Not a lot of whistles. We're providing more than the 15t obviously the landscape. So I I think from a contextual basis I think we will be well within the noise ordinance which much as you can tell without actually having built it and doing a noise study after the fact.

Trust me, I'm doing that right now. The vehicles going by at 50 to 55 make more noise. Yeah. Yeah. And for what it's worth, nobody expressed noise considering your neighbors did hear better. Um so but we'll consider that when we have info on buffering. Uh will not place an excessive burden on the ability of town priv municipal government or educational services.

Guess so I think that one's met. Yep. Because there will be no additional burden on those particular favor. No one else is awake in town. want two months? What do you want? I can table it for a month and you can come back and tell us to table it for another month.

He's optimistic. Let's shoot for the month. Okay. Uh, I'm going to make a motion to table this uh until our October meeting. Second. And what date would you like to know that we're not going to follow this? What's our deadline?

Let's have a contingency. There's a deadline. I lost my agenda on September. September 25th. So, so the next meeting is on October 4th. So any additional information said it was due September 25th. Is that the Yes. Okay. So on September 20th, that's a Monday. So really the Friday before preable.

I mean either way we have to show up to retable it. Okay. Be here. We'll do we must. Okay. Our next meeting is October. Did you vote on that? Did I 4th? Uh all in favor? Do you know how quickly Fish and Wildlife usually gets back. Is there a

They've been quicker lately. Well, that's good. But you might be closing cutting your clothes. Last one I did, I just drove right down there with the paper. I think they got it. Yeah, they get to the point where it's kind of

This is all in GIS now. It used to a little bit more to it, but now they look at the GIS and send you a can of letters. So, ordinance? Uh, table that too please. I I think what we need to do is we need to schedule a workshop.

I agree. Outside of that just the planning board or with for us to talk about uh yeah I mean it'd be a public it'd be a public session but we don't take public comment at that time. We need to do that in the month of September. Well, the select board has scheduled a meeting at

high school. So, I don't know if you want to suggest I've been a little out of touch the last few weeks. That's what next week. I don't remember the date. I got Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for your 19th. We have hope is what you are saying, but we have hope.

Yeah. From what I saw though, the next meeting should be first on the list instead of second. Exactly. [laughter] Yeah. Sorry about that. But you may also just want to talk to your neighbors. The less cranky people, the easier job.

You ready to come back as an alter? Was that you ready to come back as an alter? I didn't come. The cars were immediately next to it. They didn't come because I I've been talking with them every time I'm on. Yeah. No, the the neighbor meetings go a long way to [laughter]

[laughter] you. Thank you. Thanks. Bye, guys. Bye. Bye, Joe. All right. So, public hearing on marijuana is the 19th. So, what if we're going to do a separate workshop? No, but that's just on moratorium, right? I know, but it'd be good to kind of hear what comments might be out there. No.

By the way, I'm going to an entire convention on regulating. Are you going to the MMA thing? No, I'm going to Denver. Oh, wow. Oh, you're going to be the pro. You Ben might bail on us after. So we should do it after the 19th

after after she goes to her convention though which is [laughter] in October. I mean I don't think so we've got a moratorum that's going to put us out for at least 6 months. I think it's important that we think about it cuz rags will come out like they're scheduled like February of 2018. Um, but if you wanted to wait until

November, I will have gone to pension spot. Um, so or we can do it sooner, but I think we should do it outside of our regular meeting. I think you just wanted to do it after you come back from Denver. So, we'll do something in November.

Sounds good. And also the the further we push it, the more we know what the state's doing because that that's a big big piece of it. Did everyone get the sample ordinance stuff that we sent? Would that just go to you and me?

I don't know. I got it. I got a whole bunch of stuff. I'll I'll just forward a bunch of stuff. I'll just forward stuff to people. Obviously, just don't have my head in the game. Is there a motion to motion? Second. All those in favor.

We're adjourned. listen to lawyers. I have to go fight with lawyers. To go quash a peanut. I have to go feed a baby in like an hour and a half. Barald Dana. Lame. At least it's not pretty. Clarity on my contract. Who is it? School age children. Yes.

My son 23 years. He just graduated from college. He's funny. He actually like