TranscriptPlanning Board Meeting ~ February 4, 2015

Good. How are you? Take the little kids down the driveway just for just to do something different, but it won't be like every time. Yeah. Yeah. I know. It's like right next to like that to take everything into consideration.

Well, I mean, I feel like we're so far back that like your house from us. Yeah. your house and your pro, you know, where you live is. I mean, we don't see anything back there, right? We're not going to be the road driving cars. We sit on privacy

and [clears throat] see your driveway from Yeah. Yeah. I understand. all this? Oh yeah. Uh stuff that we had at home. Yes. Yeah. We're going to table the rest of the forestry and we'll take a look at it u in the next month and we'll come back maybe at you know matters how much time we got at the end of the end of the meeting or not.

We could maybe take a look at it tonight, but I'd much rather get through the ones we makes sense. We're after right now. Mr. Brandle isn't here yet. [cough] [clears throat] Should we just take them out of order? Oh, Oh, I was actually

Uh, John. Can you hear me? Yes. planning board meeting of February 4th, 2015. Um we have a quorum in Turosa Michael Fitzpatrick and myself to bully. Um we stand and uh have a pledge of allegiance. United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

from last month. Actually, Okay. can we actually can I move that we address take these up at the end of the meeting because actually take care of the folks that are here. There's a lot. Yep, sure. We can do that. We haven't moved to doing anything else. So, we can move to continuing business. Not seeing Earl Kandle. Um,

when we bring up Robert and Kelly Burnham, step on up. copy of the deed larger format of the math. I actually have one of the um checklists. I have several here if you would like one. I would love one. Yeah. What do we have?

Oh, wait. I may have the one we used. This is it. I think I got the one we used last time. I broke out the ruler for the new maps. You have to check it [laughter] out. All right. I got really specific. Want a fresh one or you?

Yeah, I think I'm good. Okay. Does anybody else need one? I'll take a question. We have a checklist. We do. needed right there. The following items. And would you like to go through the things that we're looking for on the checklist? Sure.

meeting minutes correspond with what we were landscaping plan? I just um there is a there is a small one in there. Oh, did I get that? Is the small one good enough or do you want the large? Um, I don't know that I got a small one. I'm very disorganized. But it

No, that's the old one. Let me get you a copy. You can use this or not. absolutely stack them with this there. [laughter] What happened? now the other thing that I had included was um was some question as to resource protection and this piece of the town hatch map shows the resource protection actually stops right at their boundary doesn't actually appear that it's they're in any resource protection

right but we were looking at the zoning map which controls and I think it cuts across part of I think what we decided last time was that it cuts across part of their land but doesn't affect ffect the area where they'll be building

based on the zoning map cuz the tax map doesn't control the zoning map does. All right. I was there was some discrepancy as the one piece of property that didn't show up on one of the maps. Yeah. I think they said it had been divided.

Yeah. So, but I think we decided it the piece at issue is not resource protection. Is that right? Correct. Not resource protection, but the flood line came into the land. That's all. Right. Yeah. It wasn't an issue anyways though because we [clears throat] determined it wasn't on aquer and all the drainage went away from right correct.

straightforward. it. No, I made a copy of the original This is only exhibit A. Is that all the deed? Yeah, that was I had to pull it out of the title company middle of the thing, but there was nothing more but a photo from my mortgage company.

No, those are from me. That's okay. thoughts on the comprehensive plan. maybe I should have been more clear about it. No, that's paper and I are not friends. Technology and I also aren't friends. All right. So, what did we have outstanding?

We had copy of the deed for the property. We have got this. Okay. You get that? So then the parking and proposed parking. Yep. On the map. So proposed paving for four parking. Parking. Parking. No paving. All gravel. Yes.

With the proposed um buffer. We've looked into I put arborite. It's written really small, but 12 um arborite with 5ft spacings along the front of the garage. The side of the garage. Yep. parking buffer would cover that whole side.

Okay. Um five to six foot um trees [clears throat and cough] you can purchase to do that with. So it would fill it in really quickly. Yeah. And then along the strip I actually have some pretty good photographs of where that is um out back to um buffer

um the property. If you want these where that's proposed is this area and this is just like a before and after cut our property and it has not changed yet right here. This is like the proposal I want to plant. Is that the house that you can see through the trees?

Yes. Yeah. And that bunch and again there is at least 10 ft of property that the Mr. Zombberg line that has not been cut. That's that's all our that's all original growth and whatnot that's there. So, we're going to add to that original

just so there's no sight through there whatsoever. We've can relocate um on the property. We have a lot of fur trees, but we want to purchase some spruce and some pine to mix it up a little bit. Okay. And that's where I was proposing about a 20 foot area just as a complete

buffer. And that's only area that's thin between the two property lines. All of the other boundary areas are pretty well wooded. So the space between the back of the garage and the lot line, that's wooded as well. Very much so. Yeah. It has a lot more trees as you can see on these maps that well you can visualize or you can see where the garage is there.

So is this the is this red? That is the Is that your barn? That's the barn. That's the old one. The garage is on all the trees between So Mr. Songberg's here is there. That's our house. See these are um [cough] pre and then post

clearing. Yeah. And so you can see a pretty good amount of trees all the way around our property that marked. And are those trees between your house and Mr. Sberg's are those on your property or his? There's at least 10 to 20 feet that is on our property

down the line that goes down that line on the Butters line that is on our property. That's why we want to add the proposed um buffer that's on the big map in front of you. The trees that would completely block his sight of view.

Okay. So, this is the latest one. Yes. Oh, no. Oh, no. That was pre. That's pre. Yeah, that was before the cut and this is after. I don't understand why. I did them both just because it shows that there's the lot was open before we just

Right. But anyway, this is the planning area. Just have the picture. them. the woods right there. Yeah. of where we would put the just before that we had I and O and O outstanding. conditional. Yeah. Impervious surfaces. [clears throat]

The uh landscaping sign locations. Is that where you It's on the map. We only have about 5,000 of the 51,000 plus. That's a lot. Oh, I see that. This Yeah. Okay. Yeah, it's in the So, that includes driveway, riding ring, barn, everything. The 5,000 is only

impervious services. That's the barn, the garage, the house, the sheds, the decks, porches. It does not include driveway because it's dirt. Yep. Gravel. It's not considered permit, right? It's asphalt. It is. Okay. signs on the map coverage.

Well, um, we got the copy of the deed. We got parking and proposed parkings drawn on the map. Uh, signed locations. Did we get those? Y, it's on the map. [clears throat] Glenn. Yep. One for each? Yes. Yep. So, we're all set with that.

Yep. buildings and private services. I think we got that. We got that. female map. better. well. blue line is [snorts] 100year flood zone. I believe it's zone A. Is that correct? Ah. Yeah. AJ. [clears throat] Yep. All right. So, which number where are you on what checklist? Um

so I think these were all to determine completeness. Is that right? And then we need to determine compliance whether it Yep. fits the criteria. Right. Right. did we get a elevation in feet above sea level? Yes. Yep. And that is at least 3 ft above flood stage. [cough] Oh, there you go.

Where was that identified on the map? The house, the garage on the on the draw map. Yeah. I marked the elevations all over. There's just above me. It says 168 and along the driveway at the cover the garage the house 177 on the house is

above flood the garage is 171.8 Mhm. Okay. So, in flood stages at what? 167. It's on the flood map. 168 and 167 is what I call it. On either end of the property, it's 168 and 16. Probably mostly 168. Oh, yeah. Yeah. 177 drive. [laughter]

Okay. 3.8 is good. Got it. Yeah. What's that? Did you have an elevation on the bone or I think I put it on the big map or I might not have. Not that it's it was high. It the land as you can see it gets higher the further back you go.

Yeah, it's not the not on. No, I didn't put it on. So, we're all set with six. All set. Yeah. Okay. I was waiting. Want to hear some motions. Oh, that's um of these? We haven't been doing it on completeness, just on the criteria.

The criteria. [snorts] Yes. [cough and clears throat] So, we're on number seven. Identify landscaping and buffer to be proposed and show in detail on the map. So the only problem I have with the landscaping plan is it doesn't show dimensions.

So for example, it doesn't show how wide your buffer zone is going to be. Um, and I think that you've sort of shown where you're going to plant, which is good, but not how how much you're going to maintain. And I think we need to know that.

condition that they have to comply with? Well, each one of those those trees there um is 5T of coverage in each one. So, there's two rows of 5T and they have to be 5T apart. So, that's 5 10 15t. That would give us a 25. So, you're going to add here. Are you going to add them all the way down? I wanted to do just like a 24 foot area which was in this picture because that's the only area that's thin [clears throat] because there's a lot more trees further down towards the garage.

Um, but it's not that big a deal to plant more trees if that would make Well, and part of it is not just the planting, but what you're basically promising to maintain. Oh, sure. Yeah. So what's already there if we think that you know a 15t buffer

and we're approving your conditional use with a you're going to maintain a 15t buffer you know all the way down this line or all the way down to the garage or whatever then that's that's one of the conditions. So yeah let's m let's uh make it a 20 foot buffer

from the our line down that would be 20 ft maintain buffer. Okay. I don't want to mark on your plan. Go right ahead, please. Just our way. I'm going to let you mark on your plan. Yeah. you're talking about a 20ft buffer right along here.

Yes. including the right side the of the line the property line that consists of what's currently there plus what you're going to correct yes so basically in one spot only in order to to have a 20ft buffer we would only need probably 50 feet

rows of trees if we were space them five feet. Um, I basically wanted to fill in the gap. We have a lot of trees. That whole line, you can see that line. Um, this one area, unfortunately, between our houses is the only area that's thin. It's been that way since we've owned the land. It's always it's old, old growth trees, very thin old trees. So, we want to put some nice young growing stuff in the last couple of years. I mean, you can cut all those trees down.

But the last couple of years, the the trees are growing up that are filling that view. I could always see your house through those trees because of they were tall trees that were thin on the bottom. But now that we've cut the old tall trees, it's let light in. And so the small furs are growing up and it's already blocking the view. and I can easily um move some more trees to fill

that area, but I would also like to purchase some pines. Norway pines grow really fast. I mean, we're talking 3 feet to more a year. So, we can have that filled in in no time with some spruce and some pine trees, I think. But this down here is like 25 [cough]

feet or more. like we didn't cut because of the water the swamp area. We didn't cut down in there. So there's already the whole length of the driveway a good buffer. So basically just this area. [clears throat] So whatever is adequate I mean will easily and be happy to maintain. Okay.

The ordinance also does require that there's a percentage of the trees that have to live at least one year. So there need to be a one-year review. So the stuff that hasn't made it through the first year, which is the transplant period,

y [cough and snorts] will need to be replaced. Just so you know, if you put 40 trees in, right? Right. The organs will require that those trees will be replaced. Definitely. Yeah. And we [clears throat] had anticipated putting trees along there anyways. So it's not like it's a big deal for us anyways.

Happy to add some more trees. So, we're going to say a 25 foot buffer. How far down? 20 foot. 20 feet. 20 foot. 20 foot. The length of the line. The length of the lot line This is 12 foot. I mean 12. What I proposed for a screening for the parking area is we measured out um arborite where five foot

um you can get a five foot tree and plant them five feet apart. No, they grow five feet and you have to plant them 8 feet apart. Oh, I thought it was five feet apart. Whatever. We figured 12 fit the 40 um 52 foot area 52 foot area perfectly

if we planted them spacing there and it would be a good screening for the parking. So it'll be one row of our variety. Okay. That grow Yeah. That would be on the front side of the garage. Yes. Yeah. Towards the road. Yeah.

Is this added down here? towards the road. Is that added? That's already there. That's already there. Yeah, there's actually another row of trees after the culverts. Mhm. Mhm. There's already a screening, but it's not up near the garage, so it doesn't screen the garage. Obviously, I didn't draw all the trees on

[clears throat] for you? Um, I think it's a screening issue, right? So that I mean it could be a 100 foot buffer, but if the trees are 100t tall and there's no screening, he's still going to see my house. I'm still going to see his house. So I propose putting bushy trees in there that are going to grow up. But I mean it's ideally needs a couple of years to fill it in beautifully to get that second floor.

Mhm. Um to fill you know the criteria of you know not seeing from the second floor [clears throat] or first floor you know the whatever. You can't transplant 20ft trees [clears throat] realistically. the garage been there?

Four years. So, I guess one of the questions that I wasn't clear about is whether or not the buffer is designed to screen the activity of the structure because the structure is already existing and has been there for four years. So, I wasn't I I kind of gave her all the info I could about

information to determine it's complete and then I think we should talk about the merits of it. And I know we have Mr. Sandberg here, so we should hear from him, too. So, I will make a motion to find that the application is

complete. Second. All those in favor? Well, I think it's going to be easier to go off of the minutes actually. Yeah. So, we've got from this list, we've got H and I that we need to look at. in the ordinance, we have additional requirements that we need to address.

Yeah. So do we want to hear from the auter criteria yeah finish the criteria we've already started on criteria right right so the outstanding criteria and I and the additional specific performance requirements. Are we in the criteria now?

Yes. Yep. Be great. My name is Mike Feldman. I'm an attorney in Brunswick. I admire the job you're doing. Having served on the planning board of the town of Bowen for a long, long time, I've decided it's about the worst town job there is available.

I moved to the school board and that was a thousand times happier and more fun than being on the planning board. But uh and I [clears throat] I also appreciate the seriousness with which you're taking this job. Um, as I'm sure you know, there's um, somebody who's living in a beautiful rural area and suddenly um, mechanics tools are

going on. U, cars are moving in and out, noise is going in and out, and active business is going has a real impact on somebody who's decided to land in a rural area in a quiet place and raise kids. So, um [clears throat] I I was a

little confused because I I did I just saw this um revised application very very recently. I didn't know uh when was it filed here? Was it the this new application? Because I the you mean the they're the making it commercial as I understand it now. It's not. It's a commercial use which is a change from the initial application or

I don't think so. No. No. The only I think the biggest update is filling in the landscaping plan which we didn't have. Okay. And some of the dimensional Okay. So, u and and I apologize for coming in sort of late in the game, I suppose. Uh I know from my client, Mr. Sunberg. What we would like to do is um

try and get some some uh professional help per in terms of the the uh odor from this kind of an operation, the noise from this kind of an operation and obviously a landscape architect to assist the the town with a fairly rigid uh buffering requirements in the ordinance. I reviewed the ordinance completely and I have a pretty good sense of that both from buffering the parking lots and buffering the building. Um uh I can't sit here right now and tell you that I know it's going to have uh too much noise or I know that there's going to be some leakage of inappropriate products under my client's land. I I just uh uh need some time to be able to evaluate that and in in I mean I also understand

coming living in a very small town that people want people to be able to have jobs and to be able to work on their land. This this is a delicate balancing act and I'm no stranger to it. Many many years of doing it. Um, so I I I guess

it's hard for me to sit here now and say, "Well, this buffering plan's no good. You need to have this kind of tree, that kind of tree." Uh, you have a very good ordinance. It's very clear on what you're looking for. And basically assuming that there's no problem with soils and and um hazardous

stuff, then you're talking about odor and you're talking about visual etc. So that if you know if this should happen to one of you folks, if you live in the country and all of a sudden there's a eight car operation going on 300 ft from your house, you're going to want somebody to say, "Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Let me let's get some breathing in here and see if we can make this see how harmful it's going to be to his shallow well and also see if if indeed

there's not going to be any pollution of any kind or any problem of any kind, then let's at least make sure that the ordinance is followed, which is what you're doing. But the ordinance is very strict. It was, you know, it's well drafted. It's

let's make sure that you know that there's not a jackhammer going on at 8:00 at night when he's trying to go to bed or six cars honking and you know can I get in now and a line of traffic etc. So, and that's because we have no zoning,

right? You know, zoning commercial to one spot, you know, we have a whole lot of homebased businesses in Durham, right? Yeah. It's the same as my town. We don't have zone. I understand. Yeah. And so, that's why you have to be vigilant about what you're doing.

So, um I I don't I mean I I'm not going to sit here today and say this is terrible. You shouldn't allow it. It can't be done. Blah blah blah. That's not I I think what I'm trying to do or what I'd like to do is buy a little bit of time to be able to uh consult with some folks that are more professional in this area about the whether there's going to be any soils problems, whether there's going to be any major gasoline and oil and sort of smell problems. And if we clear all that so there's no hazardous stuff, then it seems to me the project probably has a green light of some kind once we can figure out with a landscape architect once I figure out exactly what they're going to plant and get some input on that. there are and my clients willing to to to bring a landscape architect to the board not for the point of view of saying this is terrible just deny it and throw it out the window but let's just

see what it takes to make it as best it can be without craziness. Uh so um I can't hit I can't sit here today and say I know it's going to have a hazardous waste problem or a pollution problem or that knocks it out of the ballpark. I would like some time to be able to think about that. Uh and at the same time utilize the take the plan which I don't have yet but I hope to be able to show it to a landscape architect show them the ordinance or heard the ordinance and say how does this work? Is this the best we can do? Do you have any suggestions? I mean these folks were sitting here and I don't blame them for it saying well maybe this kind of a tree will work or this kind of a tree. I mean this this is a fairly technical area. I mean, it's there are trees that do a very good job

and there are trees that don't do much of any kind of job. So, y I don't know whether you have anything to add, but that's kind of how I feel. Yeah. So, I think um I think the challenge is you're a little too late on some of it,

right? Um we've already decided on the no noise and the odor odor and the hazardous materials. We did that at the last meeting and Mr. Sberg was represented at that meeting. Right. Uh really the outstanding issue for us to decide tonight is the issue of um the landscaping and the buffer specifically. Um when did we receive the revised plan?

Um week ago Monday 26th. It was the 26th. So and it was available at the town hall at that time. Yeah. Okay. And I think it was, if I [clears throat] recall, it was stated at the last meeting that submittals needed to be in by that date for this particular hearing.

Okay. Is it a 9-day requirement or something? I think so. Yeah. As far as the odor and noise pollutants, it is in the ordinance. And if he does have an issue, it's a code enforcement issue, you know, after, you know, down the line,

right? you know, if he does if you do have noise issues, especially how I and I appreciate that maybe I'm too late. Uh, if you would indulge me at least, how how was it decided whether or not there would be too much noise, for example? I mean, was there did you people come in and

there's I know the standards are in there. Well, and the applicants told us um they testified that the work would be done in their garage. Um the only noise that would be done is I believe if you had to burp an engine or something like that. Um that most of the work would be done in the garage enclosed which would minimize the noise.

They don't have they don't have pneumatic stuff to change tires with and stuff like that. Yeah. Be inside the garage. No. Yeah. So it's inside an enclosed building. And the other thing is we actually don't have a noise ordinance, but what we did do is we imposed it as a condition of their conditional use permit. So if you find that they are in fact violating the noise standards that we've imposed as a condition, that becomes a code enforcement issue.

I that makes sense to me. Yeah, we actually had, as been stated, we had quite a dialogue about the really the scale of the [clears throat] operation. That was something we were trying to really get our handle on and um and and I think we're comfortable with the scale of the organiz of the operation and and again if there are violations that's where the code enforcement officer comes in.

Did you folks decide what times of day the operation can operate? It was brought to us as because I know the ordinance said in a says something about what 8 to 6:30 [clears throat] a.m. or something and the conversation It should be in their application.

that. Yeah, there was. I'm looking at my notes. businesses generally should not start in before 6:30 a.m. Right. And I forgot the PM number. Is it I think it's either 9 or 10. the business hours would be? I have it. It's page 49. It's 900 p.m. to 6:30 a.m.

and is there some kind of a limit on the number of cars that can be parked outside? Yeah. So this was considered based on four parking spaces with a maximum of six vehicles Yes. Outside the garage. Well, I think total we decided six vehicles

because you need the doors. There can be two either in front of the doors or in the building and then a row of parking along the side. Four on the outside on the opposite side from the butter facing the road side of the building. So there' be four outside and two inside as a match.

There could be two. For example, he talked about snowmobiles. So if there there could be up to six outside. There are four parking spots, but if he's got smaller snowmobiles, you'll fit more than one in a Okay. I was just wondering whether or not you had said that a maximum of four cars outside as

he said six vehicles is how we put it. And is that we're looking at four four parking spaces implied to me four cars but maybe I'm wrong the sense from that she's saying a possibility of six vehicles and four spaces. So in our minutes um I move based on the application that was presented to us which was four parking spaces with a total of six vehicles. That was our criteria when we were considering.

So does that mean two on the inside and four on the out? I'm just trying to find out what you guys would think. I I wasn't So, if he's got six snowmobiles, they fit in four car parking spots. So, six vehicles can be outside at any one time, whether those are cars or snowmobiles or go-karts or

So, for four parking spaces, it would be permissible for him to have six cars for the four parking spaces. Is that what you folks decided? if he can fit them in four parking spaces. Like if he's got two snowmobiles and two good cars.

No, I'm not talking about the snowmobile. I'm just saying cars because that's obviously the the big deal. A snowmobile is not a very visually profound uh piece of equipment. It's a bit noisy, but it's So I was just I um I mean if you decided it, you decided it. I just I thought when I saw the four parking spaces you were talking about a maximum of four cars, snowmobiles are a different bird al

um and arborite day and spruces and some pine. Do you have reason to believe that's not going to be sufficient screening? Well, I I'm um the answer to your question is I don't know. Um and I u and I would and I think it's a it it requires professional input. I don't think unless any of you folks are trained in that area with and are arberous there are I think that that's their burden to prove. Okay. And if it's their burden to prove then presumably they should bring somebody here who who has designed that kind of thing. I don't mean some, you know, fancy Portland whatever, but just somebody who's done this kind of work, done these plantings, has experience, and can sat if I were one of you folks at a planning board, I would want somebody to come in and satisfy me that my home [clears throat] will be not impacted by this business and that what whatever trees and plantings are required. It's a technical

question. It's not a It's not a We'll throw a few of these in and a few of these in and everything from Skillings, the spacings, the plant height, and all of the proper plants that would grow quickly. Just so you know, I did talk with Skelins, Chad came to my shop and we had a discussion and he was going to draw me a map, but he was um having surgery and we just didn't have time to sit and do it. I didn't think it was necessary to do that because we're talking like local trees and I'm not looking to plant a tropical rainforest in my backyard. I know how to plant trees.

I'm just saying it's a technical it's not a casual question. It's a question of some and I've know the skill's operation and they're not landscape architects. They sell trees. They do landscape. But in any Well, I don't want to argue with you, but I if if I were you folks,

I I'm sorry. It would appear you do. I don't want to argue with her. I want to chat with these people if I can. We'll redo the whole at the last meeting and it feels like a wicked waste of time. Well, why don't we why don't we just finish up here, please?

Thank you, folks. Yeah, I'm just about done. I I think it's a technical question. I I I apologize if I should have seen that uh that planting and if it's laid out so that some a landscape architect could appreciate it with all the detail it has to be. This is a very important decision for my client. It's very important.

I'm and also Mike if I um I'm very concerned about my water source. I'm not an expert on hydrarology or anything like that but these are toxic chemicals. He said there's impermeable surfaces, but then there's cars that are parked out where it's not impermeable and that can leech into my water and if that gets into my drinking water, bad things happen. I'm very concerned about that and I'd like to get that checked.

Well, and Mr. Somberg, the the problem is is that we've already decided that issue and you had the opportunity to present information to I'm not an expert. Okay. And I I I feel like I would like to have someone analyze that that really knows.

I think let me suggest something. I think what they said before is that it's a conditional approval. So if you find that your water is being badly affected, I take it one of the conditions of the approval is that his water not be badly affected by this process. Right. Well, and the other issue is we went through a factf finding where there's no oil being stored outside. Vehicles with any leaks will be stored inside. So, there's there was a whole process that we went through to to make sure that you're protected.

And I don't feel protected. I don't. But that's I feel like I'm rolling the dice here and you know, we're not going to know until something bad happens. So the the hard part is the we make the decisions based on the information we have in front of us and the only information we have in front of us is that this isn't going to impact your well and if there's contrary information then we should have had that when we made that decision and that's that's that's our challenge. We can only decide based on what's in front of us. But we didn't have that access to that information then and we still have it now. But we can get it. We can really find out.

Where is your sh You have a shallow well. I do. Yeah. Where is it? It's It's probably about I don't know 300 ft maybe from their garage. 300 ft. I mean, and and water flows right between my property and their property. And is there direction to water? Maybe. I don't know if chemically there is friction

upstream, downstream, sideways or backwards. I don't know. But it's a shallow well, you know. Are you you're higher in elevation than I would say my well is lower of elevation than their garage. It kind of from my house to their house or to the garage, there's like a valley and that's where the wetlands come in, drains through

and that's why my well's there. within 100 ft. Well, bacteria can be killed. Cancer causing toxins, you know, that's another issue. And that's not that's something I shouldn't have to, you know, I'm I don't I'm living there, okay? I get they want a business, but I don't want to be harmed, okay, by their business, my own health.

you know, I can't say that pollutants are not going to run uphill, but I significantly doubt it. Okay. Well, this is downhill, too. They're up higher and my well's down low. Yeah. He's stated that it's not going to be on a previous service. It's going to be inside the garage. It's not going to be

the the cars that are parked outside that are there for repair. I mean, how do you know that's not leaking? leak, it would come straight in the driveway and straight in the garage with a pan under it. And that's the way it should be done. And that's I would assume that's the way he's going to be doing it.

Well, and it's not just an assumption. That's what he represented to us and that's what we made our decision. Can I ask a question? When you if and when you approve this, do you approve it with obviously with conditions and one of the conditions would be that there will be no

follow the Yeah. that uh sure that there won't be any pollutants coming onto his property for example and so if he finds there's a problem he can come back and I guess he goes to the code enforcement sir yep that's right

um so which what I'm saying I've said it before and you've been very patient is I I heard the applicants sort of saying well we'll put more of these trees and then maybe you 20 ft. We'll do 20 ft. It's I I I mean I think you need to have a technical presentation of the minimum impact and the zoning ordinance is very clear on worrying about that.

Well, I I think she stated that Skillins was going to make them a layout. That would be good. They could bring it in and show it to code enforcement and make sure that, you know, everything's done as far as the ordinance goes.

Well, I would love to if I could have the layout and take it to a real landscape architect and then come to the board and say, "Here's what this isn't going to work this way or this is what you need." It's their burden is to prove

to you that this is the best way to protect. Yeah. Prove to us. Yeah. and chatting with skillets. Well, the other part is we also get to use our common sense as planning board members and we know what we know pine looks like and we know what a fur looks like. We know what a spruce looks like. Um what I will do is um to address your

issue with the groundwater I am going to move to reconsider our decision on L which is will not alone or in conjunction with existing activities adversely affect the quality or quantity of groundwater and if we reconsider it I'm going to make it I'm going going to find that it's met but impose that condition as a conditional use. So my first motion is a motion to reconsider.

Second. All those in favor? Okay. Next, I'm going to make a motion to find the criteria. We have it numbered L. I don't know what that relates to. Um is met. So it will not alone or in conjunction with existing activities adversely affect the quality or quantity of groundwater. However, I'm also going to make it a condition of the permit that it not adversely affect the quality or quantity of groundwater

So that's my motion. Second. All those in favor? You all set on that, Jill? Yes. Thank you, man. Very good. Um, can I Yeah. What's to say that Mr. Songberg doesn't go to as well? Shallow. Well, of course, uh, can increase as well and say that it come from my

Well, that's an issue I'll have to take up with code. I mean, the reality is you can't you can't pollute their well source. Right. If it's not them polluting it, then then that's really who has to prove that that is caused from my job, him or me.

So that's our our code enforcement officer would be doing that investigation and probably the state police and D [laughter] would have a problem. Do you would have a problem with doing that? Something by way of a plan, a final plan for the tree buffer stuff that we can take and look at. something that's final yet. So the submitted as final but

I think it might be a conditional All right. Well, so that's that's the last piece I think we have to decide is whether we have enough information to decide that the buffer is adequate. So, I think we can either send them back to get us a more formal plan um or make it a condition that the code officer determine that there's a 20 foot a 15oot buffer with sufficient screening.

Um the problem with the buffer is there is no footage. So, I the only reason I was floating 15 foot 20 feet. We don't care. We're happy to plant some trees. That's all I'm seeing. It's the visual screening. The old trees that were there were not screening anything. That's why I want to get Norway pines. They are fluffy. In fact, spruce trees are fluffy trees. Whether they're 5 feet, 10 feet, 20 feet, I don't want to spend thousands of dollars to plant trees between his house and ours that are not even blocking the view of the garage. Sure.

Well, in an in an ideal world, and I understand how neighbors work, you two would sit down and say, you know, I plant 10 pines here and five arbor here and three Norfolk pine here and we're all happy. You know, I am willing

don't know that's going to happen. I'm willing to sit down with Mr. Sberg if you would like and say if that's good for you, that's what we will do. I'm not here to pick a fight with them or to not do that, whatever, or contaminate as well.

So, here's here's my proposal for the board and I will make a motion if you're amendable to it. I'm going to ask that the applicants get a more formal plan showing distances and additional planning required. So, the ones that are already there, give us a rough idea. These are pine, these are hardwood. Show us what you're going to plant and where. And if Skillan draws it up, I don't need a professional landscape architect. Personally, I can't speak for the board. If you two agree on it, that's awesome. If not, submit it nine days ahead. You have nine days to figure out whether it's adequate or not. And I don't want to hear about this again.

That seems to be that's sort of where I am. Are you guys Amen. Can we do this? All right. Yeah, that's con it's really consistent where I I was anticipating written written plan with with some definition as Ann's describing. Um so if you can submit to us uh written plan that gives us dimensions and a better sense of what you've talked about tonight.

Well, it was on the map the 12 ar. But I was I was looking for something that actually was written written out saying this is what I wanted X's and O's and triangles showing each type and I'm sure skills can help you with it.

What's there what we're going to plant? So I'm going to move to table this one more time. Second. All those in favor. on um additional just a further detailed land further detail? That's what we're looking for. Can we um you mind [clears throat] if I

go for Could you look at page 28 in land use ordinance item D just to make sure that we're in compliance there too. us to decide on your application? because otherwise we're going to have to deny it because we don't have enough information.

That's up to him. Can we agree to extend the deadline for us to make a decision on your application for another till next month? Sure. Thanks. Good answer. Could I ask We're good process question. So, as I understand it and thank you for the time. Uh you'll submit something. It'll be here. We'll have some time to digest it.

Maybe they can chat. The two of them can chat together. [clears throat] We can if we need to bring somebody here, we can. There'll be another meeting. Yep. So that's very fair as far as you if you guys can agree, you'll have nine days. That's their obligation.

Perfect. That seems fair to me. And it's and it's your responsibility to come here on that day if you want the whole nine days and request that information. We don't mail it out. I'm nobody calls you, but you know it's supposed to be here. If it's not here, it won't be before the board. If it is, it will. You're free to come in and get whatever's here. It's all public information. It's up to you to make the action.

It's nine days. Nine days before the next meeting. Perfect. Thank you. Next meeting is the first Wednesday in March. That's great. The fourth. It is the fourth. That's what it says right here. Well, there you go. Yeah. Oh,

I'm so sorry to interrupt. I have a sick baby with a fever at home. I am just hoping that I could possibly go next so that I can go home. My husband Thanks, Paul. Thank you. He's texting with me. Appreciate it. Thank you.

Thank you so much. That's okay. Love you. We're fine with that. Step right on up very much. I'm sweating. I'm having [clears throat] anxiety over it. So that way, step right up. Thank you so much. Oh, [sighs] my goodness. Thank you.

Okay. Would you like to explain to what available to me? Which uh Paul, do you have I can see if I can if not you can have on on pound. Yeah. you're up to and Sure. So, my name is Ariel Clair. Um, we recently moved to 12 Pound Road just a few months ago. Um, I have been teaching horseback riding for most of my adult life and I have a very small client base

that I've taught at a different barn. Um, the reason we moved to Durham is to have space to have my clients come and ride with me at my own home. Um this and the reason why this the maps and everything are so basic is because I have two small children at home. This is going to be a very small business for a

very long time. Well, until my children are both in school, this is a while. Um so we don't even have a barn yet. And you know, proposal for a sign. I probably won't have a sign for a while. I am just bringing the clients that I've been teaching which is a total of 11 students. So this isn't a a big business. Um of course um I would like

it to grow at some point down the road. Um and so primarily what I would be doing there is teaching lessons. Um the only other thing that I would possibly do there is have borders so people pay me to take it um take care of their horse. Um that's farther down the road. Like I said, I don't even have a barn. Um so those are the two things that I would do. There is teaching and boarding.

the bar. That would be nice. Yeah. Yes, that would be good. So here's um we need to consider and approve your application based on sort of specifics. Yeah. So for example in this case it might be number of school ponies, number of students, number of potential borders, number of stalls in your barn, something so we can you know so you're a butters have some sense of all right when we're looking at it today what's the scale going to be right

and we need to know that to consider your impact on water and a butters and all of that. Um, now you can tell us that today you want to have four school ponies and you're going to build a four stall barn and that's it and no indoor ring and you're just having an outdoor ring and we can consider that today. And if in 5 years you decide you want to expand, you can come back for another permit.

Okay. But it's sort of it's the balls in your court. You have to tell us what criteria you want us to consider it based on. Okay. Yeah. No. And this is my first time ever doing anything like this. So, I apologize that I wasn't more specific. And it to be so vague just because right now this is what I have my 11 students. How much can I do? I don't know.

I have two little ones running around my feet. How much can I really do? So for the next five years for the next five years. So five horses total on my property. I would just be cautious not to fence yourself in too tight, but okay,

don't be too broad. All right, give yourself a little bit of room, but if you if it gets too tight, you're going to find yourself back here too soon. it comes into question about other things. So, and the the other piece is so your personal horses that will never a student will never sit on

Mhm. we don't count those. They're not your business. I'm don't have any. Okay. [laughter] But if you do in the future, okay, um you know, I probably can't afford them. This is I thought you had two ponies or two um I have a pony and a horse, but they're I just purchased them to teach lessons on. They're not my own personal um I'm not going to be going and competing on them.

Not yet. Not yet. But that's my plan is just to teach on them. So that I mean that's when we're talking about five courses total. We're talking about five commercial courses. Oh yeah. And that's Yeah. So five is is good. Um and then you want a number for borders in the next five years

if you will that number be above and beyond. So, five lesson horses. Is that what you're Yeah, at the I would think at the most. I mean, I know I'm not supposed to box myself in, but Well, I mean, it's really it's really a matter of scale. You need to describe what the business is so we can get a sense of what the impact is on a butters,

right? Um, but as Paul's saying, you don't want to box yourself in. So, you have to come back in two years, right? But you also don't have a barn, right? Right. Right. So at boarding is a barn comes first, right? Or with [clears throat] that with that. So that might be the threshold that you may wish to consider to expand your conditional use permit. Come back before the board and say when we have a bar, how many stalls, how many borders, right? And expand on on what you're doing then. And your voters will also at that point have had an opportunity to understand their personal impact by your business.

Right. Right. Because you you'll need a building permit, right, for that barn. Sure. Sure. At that time. Sure. He'll be suggesting that you come back. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So, I that makes perfect sense. So, we'll go with for today, we'll go with five horses total. No barn.

Okay. You do have a runin shed there. I do. You do? Yeah. Okay. And five horses going to fit in that? No. My husband will build another runin [laughter] shed. Yeah, we we made him breeding. [laughter] this, what is Sorry if you can't see what I'm looking at. This So, you've got Does this building exist? The hay storage?

Um, yes. It's It's one of those tent thingies, you know, as a Oh, like a coverall or whatever. Temporary shelter. Okay. Um, does the garden shed exist? Yes, that was already there um before we moved in. Yeah, it's just this

and the chicken two chicken coop. Those chicken coops um uh one was ours, the other was existing before we moved in. Y it has the riding ring already been built? Um no. Okay. So, that's proposed. That is proposed. Yeah. And that's basically just a fence with dirt. It's not an indoor

Okay. And does the paddic exist already? The pasture? Uh yes. Yeah. So it exists and it's fenced and it's fenced. Yeah. There. And the shed is there. Yeah. And the running shed exists. Yes. So um are you proposing to build a second run and shed in the same pasture? Are you proposing to build a second pasture?

Um would probably do is open the pasture up and put another run in in there. Just make it bigger. Go that way. So you'd make it longer this way. coming out in towards the house since you're pretty close to the trees. Or we would or we would go behind it and take those take some of those trees down.

Mhm. Yeah, we've we've talked about going behind it, too. Um and taking some of those trees down. And um the other thing we've we've talked about and I should propose is having the existing runin also be the back to another runin. So just do it right off the back and make that pasture attached.

Gotcha. So that'll be enough. Um and will that be the same size? Yeah. This So the paddock the pasture [snorts] will be the same size and the running shed will be the same size. Yeah. So the challenge with this is we don't know how far that's going to get you towards that boundary.

Um so we don't know what screening will be there. Okay. Um and that's going to be may be a problem. Although probably not commercial. We'll have to think about that when we get there. That's But that's one. Is that your your line there? Is that is that your lot line? The little tree line

was the property [clears throat] boundaries here, right? Yeah. Okay. This is where my husband needs to be here. This is not my thing. Maps. Um, so that's some of the detail we need to know. Yeah. And it may not even happen. That's

sort of it's not there. If so, here's sort of our challenge is if you want to stick five ponies with in one runin shed, that's not going to be good for the ponies. Um, that's not going to work and you'll probably be violating a state law on that one.

No, [clears throat] I'm not going to do that. So, but if you want five ponies in two pastures, we need to know where that other pasture will be, right? Cuz that will affect screaming. It'll affect all of that stuff. And I there may not even be five ponies, which is why it's not on here. It may be two for the next five years and we may not have any more pasture or and I may just keep my current client. That's

that's the thing. This is this is like a big dream for me, but it is very limited while my kids are little. So that's why just I mean I can I can make a big elaborate barn and runins and pastures and everything, but it may not happen. I just don't we're just not there yet. So it and it's completely this is you're driving the bus on this. You tell us what you want us to consider and approve. We just need those details. That's all. I mean and I'm not saying five is bad. I'm not saying 15 is bad. I'm saying we just we need to know what we're looking at and so do your butters to help us decide what the impact is on

Sure. all of our criteria. Yeah. And all this is this is just this is current. Well, except for the riding arena. It's not there's no fence around it right yet, but this is just what's current. Um, you know, if you want me to and I hear what you're saying. I think what I should do is do what what do I think what what is the most possible pasture space and shed we'll have in the next five years and add that to my map. And I'm happy to do that.

Yep. I mean we can t we can just table this and you can we haven't done any real checklist or anything. So on application do we want to do the all I mean I don't know but do we want to do all the other stuff and then I just come back with just that or

you this that's completely up to you. You tell us. Let's do that. what you want us to approve because that's the only thing I guess that I would want to add is that pasture that possible pasture and possible runin on the you know flip side of what the runin that's existing

and the only so we're going to need numbers when we do that. So, we're going to need to know especially the distance from your lot line to that new pasture to the fencing. Y um what trees how many trees are going to be in there? Uh so, we're going to need all those sort of details. Okay.

Cuz [snorts] one of I mean, you just heard us talk about buffering and this will be like our third meeting on that one. Okay. um can make a really big difference to your butters. Like whether they can see the activity on your property or not is going to be a big deal.

If I may for a second, um it would be nice if you had a line drawing like this showing that was a little bit smaller that showed where your neighbors are as well. Because for me, and I'm I'm getting into my part, but it's not what what's going on back here that's going to bother me. It's the traffic.

It's going to go next to my house. Yep. And that's going to be that's another factor that we need to consider. So, if you're going to build a 30 stall barn, that's a very much bigger scale than three ponies and a runin. So, and that's all those are all all of our criteria in our ordinance and that's what we look at and we're going to take information from you and we're going to take information from you and we're going to use our own common sense and life experience and anyone else who shows up. We're going to take information and then we're going to make our decision. Do you meet these criteria?

Right. Um so that's the thing to consider when you're thinking about scope. Right. Right. So what what was your name then? My name is Faith Baker and I'm at 20 pound road. I'm one owner. My fiance Robert Smith is the other owner of our

Is that you in the area? one. You're 75D. You're right here. 75D. Their driveway goes right right by right next to our house. Sure. Right. Um I mean I I'd like an opportunity to speak. It might be helpful to her too, but I'll let you guys finish up with

Well, without a clear plan, do we want to go through a checklist and bind her? No. No. I think we'd be better off. Need to get a sense of scale and getting a better plan together and y and I would encourage you to to talk.

Yeah. I mean, we it's a weird concept [laughter] for today. Yeah. So, absolutely opportunity to speak or we can I don't see any reason why not. This is really informal because we haven't gotten to a checklist. I understand that.

Well, can I'm sorry. Can I just say something real quickly? I mean, complete. There's nothing to say applications. No, but this might help her. Yeah. No, and I I I want to hear what she has to say for sure. I just I guess I just was kind of hoping we could with

at, you know, the condition of adding that pasture and runin not to have to go through, you know, for you guys not to have to go through the whole checklist, everything again. Can we just do that? Go through everything today and just go through that one thing next time. No, not the way it works. Not the way.

And actually, it'd be less efficient that way because we'd have to go through the whole checklist as it's presented now. And that's basically a new application. I guess my only concern is this. Um, I come back next month with the trees and the dimensions of the

proposed pasture, which may not even happen. Um, and then I'm missing something else and then we go another month. And I was hoping to start teaching in the spring. So, that's my concern. And that's an absolute possibility. It it's sort of what you bring to us.

Okay. Complete application. [music] The more detail you have and as unfriendly as it is, we literally just marched through our ordinance. Yeah. Um the the spatial requirements, the general performance standards, as much as it it's terrible to tell you to do this, it's it's the ordinance that we follow. So, as long if it's really I mean this last one is an anomaly. Usually we march through these in one night and we're done.

Um but where there are concerns raised where things are not done in full detail. Yeah. That's when we run into Yeah. I just I wish my husband [snorts] could have been here because he would have been okay this is the dimensions. This is where the border is. It would have taken two seconds. So I just you know it's too bad but okay. Anyway,

if it I don't mind if you guys start. I feel at somewhat of a disadvantage because I didn't really have the plan. I received a letter from Ariel. I had never met her before. They just moved in. Um and in the letter, she just mentions [snorts] wanting to start this [music] business and um stating that she'd like to have one to four borders and 10 to 20 lessons weekly. and our property. Um, this is our property at 20 Pound Road. This is our house right here.

We have a back porch that is very private. We've never had uh privacy issues before. We've had, you know, the neighbors that lived here before. And her her driveway goes right down here. And this is where her property is. So, there's a pretty big buffer of trees right in here. So, I'm really not concerned about what's going on behind there. I can't hear you. I can't see you. I hear a lawn mower once in a while. And you probably hear our dog bark and that's about it.

But what I am concerned about is I've already started to see an increase in traffic of cars coming right down. There's a little dip right here. There's a little stream that comes in here. So I'm concerned about water quality and what you're doing with manure and everything. That should be part of the ordinance anyway to make sure that's disposed of properly and doesn't get into the water. But I'm more concerned about um if we're saying up to 20 lessons weekly. Now I had kids that took horseback riding lessons. We dropped them off, took off, came back and picked them up when the lesson was done. You tell me they're going to stick around. I don't know that. So, if I'm talking about one lesson, a car going down once, coming back, going down and back, that's four times for one car, 20 lessons times four uh car, four trips, you know, you get the message. It starts to build up in terms of traffic. We're talking about

80 cars a week going back and forth and down. Then you've got four borders on top of that with people coming and seeing their horses. Then you've got your regular traffic. It gets very, very busy suddenly for a little private house with a private backyard that didn't have any disturbance whatsoever. So, yes, we're very concerned about the traffic coming down here. There's no buffer right in this area right here. Um, we can see from our bedroom window, their driveway,

and we do um keep some materials out here that probably aren't very nice visually to you. And, um, they might be I don't know. But my driveway is super long. I would not it would not bother me. Okay. Well, my suggestion is that that there might be some condition here where there's some kind of a a little fence put maybe a stockade fence or something to to buffer us. Also, we have a dog that's going to bark at every horse that goes down that driveway and it's going to be annoying to you. It's going to be annoying to me. It could buck. The horse could buck. People could fall off. You know, we got a big mess. So, there are a lot of things to think about here. if you start bringing, you know, 20 lessons weekly of people going back and forth and back and forth on all that cars and all the traffic and uh that that's our concern and we're not against anybody having a home business. We have a home

business as well. We we want you to make money and want everybody to be happy to make money about that, but we want to protect our privacy and privacy that we have always had and want to continue to have. Um so that's I understand. So, in your application, consider whether offense makes sense

and and please talk [laughter] in the in this next month. Please talk I don't even know. She's going to put her phone number on the letter. So, I Yeah, I was told [laughter] to put my number on the letter. So, didn't occur to me, but um

Okay. So, bring back your application next month with very very very complete and please talk. Okay. Okay. All right. You have Did your letters go out? Certified mail return receipt. Yeah. You have all the green receipts.

Yes, I do. But the letter didn't show plan or application or it's really it's just it has to be it has to notify you that there'll be a hearing notify. So, and the rest of the material is always available here. I will need to renotify. It's very expensive. Okay. We can also just get

them to sign if you're well she did for most of it but some of them were a little bit difficult. So she sent some letters out as well. So difficult not difficult but difficult to get a hold of. So yeah she called me on that and I said just send letters out. It's the simplest thing to I should also mention if I may that because it's a private road, it's not maintained by the town front pound road

and if we're talking about all these additional cars, it's about enough for the gun club, but um with additional cars coming down, we all have to pay for the grading and the plowing. So, it's something to consider as well.

Is there a maintenance agreement with the group on the farm road? There's no maintenance agreement. There was actually Yeah, there probably is, but I haven't seen it. So, I don't bother. So that would be something else to bring to us because that will be another um

issue for us to look at. Yeah. The road. Yep. So if there's a road maintenance agreement, we have nothing. It's very pitted and the road is bad as it is. We have no information on the road. We haven't gotten a bill. [laughter] So

go down to the gun club or somebody down there. Yeah. I mean I guess my Bob somebody. There's a Bob Libby. What is it? Bob Libby. Bob Libby. Yeah, that's the name. Okay. Bob Libby. Okay. Well, I'm not going to seek him out and ask him how much we owe him, but [laughter] he'll be knocking on your door. I know what you're saying. I mean, I see I really with the gun club being as busy as it can be, you're not going to notice an increase in traffic.

We don't we don't have any to our house. We will you guys work it out. Yeah. Within the next month, please talk and Yeah. Can we We're going to table this and get on with Mr. uh Randle. All right. to table this. Come and see me tomorrow afternoon.

Come and see me tomorrow afternoon if you want. When you get a chance, you don't have to. Yeah. No, I'm Okay. Thank you. Thank you all. Thank you. Phone number for you somewhere. Sure. Hope your baby's fever I've been up since 12 a.m. last night.

Yeah. Thank you. And I don't have yours, but I'll give it to you. So, um, my cell phone is 83819. yeah, it includes [music] I'm wondering if the pastor is something that there's a decision in another town. I don't I can't remember what which one it is, but it was upholding the board's decision to find that briding lessons and boarding were animal husbandry.

Our well is right next to that one. I can't remember which one. Well, I'm just just wondering in regards to this application if the pasture area is something that's that is part of the application and I could see the structure is the writing area where the business activity is but as agriculture stands it would

so it's just something to consider. Yeah, something to think about when we're looking looking at it. Um just so you know, do you want to keep these? Um, just in case Burnham wants me to stick them in her file. I'd be best.

Well, you just heard it, but I I'll talk to you more. Let's talk because Mr. Kle, Good night. Good evening. Good evening, dude. Happy New Year. How are you? How about them Patriots? [laughter] Is that a good game? Oh my god. Right. Unbelievable. I wish I had some money on that.

Still excited about that. Well, how do you go fan? I bet there's a lot of people in Seattle that don't feel the same way from so low to so high. Unbelievable. In a play. I've been to three county fairs and two goat ropins, but I ain't never seen nothing like that. [laughter]

Okay, Mr. Grenle. Excellent. You guys need another checklist or you're good? I think we're good because we use that. We don't need it for this, do we? This is a backlot ordinance, so those won't happen. That's right. Where did my back ordinance go?

Those aren't going to help you. Okay, then we check. I You just have to go through the ordinance. I didn't I didn't type one up for the backot. That's where it went. Thank you. I think it's all here fact that Mr. Kandle wants to retain a buildable lot in the back of his property. So it's not like he's already sold the house and then wants to build and it's going for is why there's no there's no plans and drawings and all the other stuff about just the basic structure from the back organ the lot that the house is on now.

Yeah. Did we first date? That was 11 [clears throat] years ago. 202, 12 years ago, huh? Be 12 then. I'm going to turn it off now. It's a little noisy. Sorry, John. Yeah, that was uh deed uh uh 12 years ago. there. No, you don't. Or you should. Is yours not signed by the planning board?

Nope. I have the signed copy from the board here from November 2013. Was is my name on it? It is. I thought so. That's why I was so confused. Trying not to. So, we have [laughter] the copy has the signatures and you guys just

Yeah. No problem. Yeah. That's right. These are the ones Bruce gave me. Um, away going all the way back, correct? Yes. Yeah. So, I should have uh um into three sections already. No, no, we're doing it into three sections now. Initially the initial approval in 2003 was the creation of this front lot and this back lot.

So this is a new plan right? This is the new plan. The old one doesn't show this the splitting this plan for 2003. So he had his had it surveyed to indicate that the new back lot here that the house is on meets the demand.

Okay. We're all on the same page now. Yeah. Really all I want to do is create another back lot. Another originally. Uh, no, just the one. The one I did one back lot. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 17 acres. Sorry. Two lots. One back lot.

Yeah. So, we're not in subdivision. So, all we need to look at is back lot. That sound right? world. I can't say that. or which lot holds title to the right of way right now? you actually the gentleman it says in one of your ordinances that that has to be deed to the owner if I sell any

and he owns all of the road frontage that line that it goes across I had to deed that to him on swamp road or swamp road right away no the well a little bit of the rightway I should have one but I don't what I'm saying is I had to go to a lawyer cuz I was questioning he owns this he owns all of this

okay So he owns this chunk. He owns this chunk of the right away. And you own all this and you have own all the rest. And it says in the ordinance that that's you know it has to be excluded from any acreage. That's right.

And so on and so forth. That worried me because he owns it and but there's a but you have deed perpetual. Yeah. You have deeded right of way to Yes. Oh yeah. Yeah. The whole thing. So that's the way it's supposed to be done

and anybody and everybody will on that right away of anything because with the backlog if you had 50 ft of frontage that's not a backlog. So you it was done right. Yeah. The drawing is correct and that they asked you to deed it to him was

deed to him. Yeah. I didn't understand that. I was worried about that but my lawyer said no. That's the way it's supposed to be. But you got a right away because of the Yeah. the whole thing. You [clears throat] have a right of

your deed. Uh you or it must be accepted from his deed. Well, you know, I never I don't know what's in his deed. Uh but you were questioning me why why I didn't get another deed and I never did. Yeah. Well, and you wouldn't. You'd probably reserve the right of way in

Yeah. I wonder if he's got a report or I guess it would be a or it would just becept it would just be reserved. and bounds and recorded. It would be written in this deed. Yeah. Okay. Just be reserved. I have two deeds. Okay.

You have one beyond 2003. Acceptable. Pardon me. Your first deed and acceptable deed. Oh, I got three of them actually. But see, I bought two lots, but then you combined them. But I had two I have two deeds or it seems I have two deeds. But anyway,

the planning did that. Town did that. Yeah. For tax purposes. Well, the ordinance ordinance update. lot of recording ownership. Yeah, they were nonconforming. Yeah, but you could have center. Those Yeah, that's the two lots. Two lots.

We bought two 10acre lots in 1975. Oh, the little skinny one. And then I got divorced and then I bought my ex-wife's 10acre lot. So, I own 20 acres. is it newer than 2003? No, it's 1975. Both of them. And then I have the one where I bought the other one back. Uh,

well, contract of sale of real estate. Yeah. I don't even know what I got here. Right. Warranty deed. Uh, just incred my ex-wife to me. Just here's the two. And then here's the one. Warranty deed, warranty deed, warranty. These are the two we bought together, got divorced, and then I bought her [clears throat] 10 acres. And this is what I have. I bought that in 1980. I guess I bought it back again.

I don't know how that works. Um, I'm assuming that your uh lawyer didn't leave you with any um legal right to the to cross that line. He he did. No, that was that was my point. I'm going when they brought it up, I'm going, "Wait a minute. That's going to block me off. I got to go across his land." But somehow they wrote that in.

You should have it deed right away. It should be in there somewhere somehow. Yeah, I'll have to ask him about that or I don't know where that is. Maybe, you know, maybe I do have something from him. Discharge a mortgage. No, I don't. I might discharge a mortgage.

75. I I've got nothing like that, but I remember. No, no. I got nothing like that. How far? I mean from on frontage on the the right away. 142 + 50 + yeah that wasn't a problem but I think if you look at the further dimension

348.99 337.95 the hammerhead up this up this way. Yep. Right there. Oh, this one. But isn't that this distance? The rightway on the on the rightway is 348.99 ft. Right. That's the far boundary. What's the interior boundary? [clears throat]

It's got to be longer because the angle of the boundary line that he's he's proposing is at a steeper angle. That's what I was thinking. Yeah. So, it's a little bit more. But why? It's odd that it's not. So, it's it's more than 300 ft.

It's also really unfortunate that this is called a subdivision. Yeah, he just wrote that on there. I don't know why, you know, he he's an expert. He's telling he's telling me it is a subdivision or you know, he's telling me and I'm telling him you got to come and talk to these people,

but I'm not getting to do that. Anytime they divide any piece of land will identify it as a subdivision because technically it is. It's a subdivision of a larger that's but that should be fine. We scaled out a piece of paper for the 300 by 200 feet to make sure that he was within that.

Okay. That's a really odd Yeah. requirement. That's a weird requirement. Um, you know, and I was a little concerned that the angle of the back of the of the frontage lot was going to be an issue and he had to be careful where he placed the pin for the back of the first back lot and the front of the second back lot to make sure that that 300 by 200 encroachment wasn't

Yeah. within question. So So It needs to be five acres. Well, not including any land constituting the rightway. Yeah, it doesn't. The rightway is indicated as uh an area of rightway is 84.511 a note a note to that effect

excluding the right away. It says on there somewhere right here the area of the right but that's part of the I think it's on the same thing as on the previous plan. Um which means that it would include the entirety of I I he I went over him with that. He there's a note on there

on the previous plan. So I think it's the entirety of the rightway. It seems, you know, as far as scale goes, that's almost 2 acres out of 20. That seems seems like it have to be the whole thing. There were excluding There's a note on there that excludes

right away. Yeah. any a lot. It's he put it on he was very emphatic about that where it is I I don't know but it's uh you know see that I I can't remember how he how he worded it. Entire parcel contains area of individual [clears throat] lot shown at left.

you get 13.035 035 and uh two That's 20 acres. So that must include this. Yeah. Which it can't, Math is not my strong suit. Well, yeah, that's I have other I should have brought those other drawings that he made a note on there saying uh the right away.

So, you understand my issue is this area has to be five. That's Yeah, exactly. including and I have that somewhere. Uh I thought it was on this one, but it is not because that five and that's 18. Mhm. And that's two. Well, this is two. Actually, these probably all don't add up.

2775. That's 20. That's 20 20 something. 20.2. the same but the total is 20.24. it. No, that's the That's a good call. Yeah, that sucks. Um, This is all 94 acres for the rightway is not part of the 20 acres. I'm It's not part of the 5 acres.

That's correct. I have, you see, this is all preliminary. This is not cast in stone yet. I when when you approve I I I might have them at home, but I, you know, that take me 15 minutes to go get go there and back. So, you think in the that in the second the first back lot that the 5.01 acres includes the rightway?

It has to. Yeah. Otherwise, you add up those lots total of the three lots. He said he had 20 acres. Well, but that Yeah. Well, I mean, what if he has 21.94 acres and there's one? Well, it says it says entire parcel contains 20.24

Notes on the plan up on the far right. Yeah, 20.24. It was on the drawings. But if I added up the three parcels not including the 1.94, I've got 20.11 is what I came up with. Seven. Yeah. So, it includes the right one. No, that doesn't include the 1.9. Well, what I'm saying is what he included here at 1.94, 1303, 501, and

207 add up to 22 acres. 233 and the entire parcel is 20.24. I think somebody made a math mistake. Yeah. Yeah. You think this line here needs to move? Yes, I can. He hasn't. This is just He can put those lines wherever we need to when when when he relocates that pin to make the 5 acre lot.

Okay. So, that pin's already here. Excluding um No. Yeah, that one is he went from that one. I'm talking about the other one. There's another one on the far side. What I'm saying is this isn't even I maybe I run home and get that. All right.

He's going to locate a pin wherever he we have to here. Excluding this right away. This will be five acres as a as a m I'm sorry. Forget that one. This will be five acres. Yeah. That doesn't even show this. I'm selling this. I want to create this lot.

Well, but you're creating both. You have to create. Yeah. Remember we talked about that earlier. You're creating the exist which is a 13 acre lot. Yeah. I we I I was there for an hour and a half with him going over this very thing

and I think I brought the wrong drawings here to show. Okay. Well, where But when I go back to him, I I'm going to have him place the pin wherever he needs to. I can probably run home and get that if you Yeah. the entirety of the four numbers have to add up to what the overall parcel is or something. We did go over that. I think I gave you the wrong

Okay. ones here, but uh yep. Yep. Well, I hear you. without going back to your your um our your uh survey surveyor. Uh yeah, no, I can I I've got them. I've got them. Uh we went over it. I I think I have the wrong drawing.

So, I guess we see in March. Yeah, it looks like All right. All right. So, move the table. Move the table. Yes. Who is this moving? Um I will grab them. I'll bring you those tomorrow. Too bad. Thank you, Mike. Second. Second. Second, Jill.

Thank you. All right. I do have a question. How am I looking here to create this backlog? Huh? I mean, what the dimensional requirements? Oh, yeah. We'll just get get to those dimensional requirements. We need to requirements.

Yeah, we just need to pay numbers on paper. I thought that was when the permit was pulled. Oh yeah, because it's just creating it. He's not building it, right? Yeah. So, the road standard comes in. So, let's see. We need

So, your plan should be labeled plan of private way and it's not um of private way. It says it needs to have a signature block for us. But the original here did a new one. Yeah, I thought they were on those. They're not on those either.

No, your guy. Here it is. Yeah, there it is. Got a signature block. Yeah, but it needs to be titled differently. Uh, all right. So, it needs to be titled how or Well, I mean, here. I will give this back to you. What? Um, so we need a drainage plan. Do we have that?

Um, it's on here. drainage plan. We have that. for the private room. We just need a plan. It doesn't need to be built. So is this under item one under B on page three? A street plan. Yeah, that's under the additional standard for family owned back. Is that correct? Am I reading that wrong?

More than one dwelling 6 A1. Oh, I think you're right. I think it is a different G. No, I think No, I don't see an A under. Take this to your surveyor and just have him put this stuff on the map. So, it needs to be titled this. These are just stupid things that he can add. It needs to specifically say these things in the notes. Um, you will need a maintenance agreement, which is going to stink.

Well, how can he do a maintenance agreement if he has nobody to agree with yet? Cuz he hasn't actually sold the front the house that he's in that's on that back that first back law. So, if he has a maintenance agreement, it needs to be when he sells it, it needs to be in with the deed.

Yeah, he Well, he supplied a maintenance agreement package, but But it's like Yeah, it's Yeah, Wisconsin. Is that what you said? [laughter] Yeah, it's wrong state. Y Wisconsin. Wrong state. That's all. Yeah. Well, no, that we got that offline. I mean, it's like when I sell it, I will definitely

say you got to take care of that and I'll take care of the rest or however. Yeah, we need a copy of your maintenance agreement. So, I guess we have it. I mean, is that with I'm just trying to go with that. He's hasn't sold the house yet. He's not building on the back lot. So, there's nobody else to sign the maintenance agreement with. How How do you want

As long as he has one, please sign. Okay. You're probably going to have to get the front guy to sign it, too, right? Yeah, I think so. If the front guy Well, if the front guy doesn't use it, [clears throat] well, somebody else is using

right away across his land. So that yeah they would that would should be in his in the deed that he had signed that would allow him to convey to his signs and as a like any other easement you yeah I can go back to my lawyer and get the same he gave me like I was said we were talking about before that little stretch there where his land goes over that

there's there's something to that effect. I'd like to see that. Yeah, I would too. I'm betting it's in the deed that you gave to that guy in the front lot. Yeah. I'm betting you accepted and reserved it. So, if you look at that deed, I'm guessing it's in there.

His deed. Yeah, I'm guessing. I hope it is. Oh, I'm sure it is. No, I'm positive of that. Yeah. Yeah, but we'd like to see it. Yeah. Okay. And make sure that your deed green references it. Your deed should reference right away.

Yeah, my deed. I'll have to ask him about that, too, cuz I've never received any other deed than No, you wouldn't. It when you deed out um the next piece, it'll be accepted from that as well. I'm sorry, what was that? It'll it'll

when you deed out the next piece, you'll accept and reserve the lot, the right of way um passage, and you'll also grant an easement over that front piece, right? Yeah. There's a way you assign it and then you'll have a a second description over someone else's property at that point where you will have a continuous easement.

Yeah. Yeah. So, you'll need to get to the third one. And all right. So, we want to see the the deed on the rightway, the maintenance agreement, and you want to you don't want a Wisconsin maintenance agreement. I think you could just rework it.

Yeah. Yeah, that's what I was hoping. Uh yeah. Okay. It's not that big a deal. It's just because it says Oh, actually, there will be three of us if we have to include uh Mr. Putnham in And you may not have to do cuz it looks like his driveway comes.

Yeah, but it's across his land. So, I would think Yeah, I would think he should at least sign it whether he's using it or not. He He has right to it. He has right to I guess um he has right to use it since it is his land

but I don't know he has an obligation there's no obligation for him to be involved in the maintenance of it so no probably not but it's across his land so he still has the right to use it that means they can't restrict him from using it but they have to maintain it.

Yep. So he shouldn't have to be part of the maintenance agreement because he has no responsibility to the road other than ownership. Right. But he's not involved in flying or anything else. That may not be, but it is cross

that's what the Yes, there was there was some paperwork that I gave you guys to in regards to the um forestry PP and a uh legislative update on uh allowable appeals. the appeals the legislative update is in regards to um ADA access that it's now a legally

it's legal to appeal encroachment on setbacks to put up a ramp or any other necessary access stuff. Um the part from the forestry is is actually really important to me. uh particular in regards to the fact that we we don't we have not adopted any of the town's I mean the state's forestry guidelines. So therefore when we have folks that are doing logging in town, we don't get the opportunity to contact a forester from the state to come down and do a site review and make sure that they're following all the proper rules and standards.

[clears throat] Um, and it's come up twice now since I've been here where people have been concerned about folks logging and all I can do is see if they've put up their notice, their intent to to harvest permit at the entrance to where they're harvesting.

Mhm. And nothing else we got except there's a little few requirements around Runaround Pond Road and a few other spots that are indicated. So um the require the the what seems to be the best approach to this thing of the three is we can either adopt the state as the authority or we can adopt the state guidelines

and then the state foresters will come in and do the work for us. What they're going to do mostly which is most important is manage any property that's being logged in the shoreline zone particularly in the shoreline zone. They will mark it. They will monitor it. They will report on it. They will do all that part. That's pretty critical.

Does the state increase the shining zone? No. If we go to this No. No. This is just for for them coming in and actually managing the logging in the shoreline. been having a lot of problems with local code enforcement being knowledgeable enough in the shoreland zone to sort of protect the buffer areas and both resource protection and shoreland properly and still allow folks to log their land.

Um, and it's been getting real problematic. So, the the state has sort of put this thing out that, you know, if you guys would adopt those rules and and agree to go by the state guidelines and this, we'll actually come in and manage the shoreline zone for you. So, as I read it, we've got three options.

Yes. We've got passing it over to them entirely. Yes. We've got a joint enforcement agreement and then we've got we do our own thing. Right. Which one are you recommending? The middle one. Why is that? Why are you recommending that over just turning it over entirely to the main forest service?

Because it still allows [snorts] the town to have some say so about how these things develop in the future. We're not they're assisting us rather than taking it over for us. So it still feels like we got some skin in the game. Uh it also requires that they communicate through the codes office when stuff is going on and involve us in that process. It seems

reasonable to me that that would that's a sort of a kind of a nice balanced way to work it. You know, it's not like we're just giving up to, you know, big brother state and they're going to take over it. But we still have something in it. I would expect most communities would want to stay involved in some measure.

What changes is this going to require to our shoreland zoning ordinance? We do. Do do we we don't have a shorland zoning ordinance? We don't. We the town That's the other thing is the town refused to adopt the state shoreland zone. So we're under we're under an imposition on shoreland zone by D. If somebody wants to build in the shoreland zone, they have to get a permit by rule from D before they can get a building permit from us.

I'm going to head out. You're all done with me? Yes, we are. Um, there's a note here. It says, "With planning board approval, the street plan may be integrated into a single plot plan." So, if I show the rightway on here, that's what you need. Is that correct?

Well, I think it's a separate street plan, isn't it? Yeah. I don't know what that means. Street plan. I don't know what that is. Stuff. It's right away, isn't it? Or I don't think we need it at this point. Okay. Either way.

And my one last question is, uh, can I get a variance on, uh, notifying my butters again for the third time? I mean, It's a continuing application, right? No one's showed up yet. I'll tell them. I'll certainly tell the ones I hear, you know, but I have to go around and get their signature a third time. [sighs]

I mean, they all know we're continuing it. And it's on public record that we're continuing it until the next Yeah. meeting. They all know I' I've this last time I I I went to everybody face to face and the time before that I had to send three people the registered mail thing. So I mean

it's generally understood that if it's an ongoing they've been notified the first time that if they were here they would be notified again of additional meetings that it's not they're not required to notify every meeting if

where with the clerk where we failed to hear her application she does need to notice again. So, I would think you don't have to, but that's just my opinion. They have to say so. I'm not going to vote to require it, but if we get a due process complaint.

Yeah, I hear you. I don't see anything in the ordinance that requires it. I tell you what, I'll come back in a month and uh you guys think about it. If it's a problem, I'll do it uh for the next month. Okay. [laughter] Spring donuts.

Mr. Kindle. Better yet, we have an opening on the planning board. [laughter] Thank you. No. Good night. Good night. Um, so your recommendation would require us to draft shoreline zoning. Not for the logging part. No, not for the standards.

Pardon? We'd have to adopt standards. We adopt the state standards for logging in the shoreline zone. We don't have to adopt the shoreline the D shoreline zone ordinance although we should. We don't have to to do this. So we simply take the state standards.

How has D not come after us to make us There are 28 towns in Maine that did not adopt shoreland zone. And what it comes down to is that they impose it. They don't come after us. They impose it. Anyone that wants to build in the shoreland zone has to get a D permit instead of our permit. So they get a D permit by rule and then when I see the D permit by rule, I can issue them a building permit in the shoreline zone. So it's typically in a town that has adopted the shoreline zone ordinance of the D. It's in the ordinance and all of the [clears throat] necessary criteria are there to impose through my office.

So we need to adopt an ordinance just regulating. Do we have anything regulating forestry right now? There is some stuff for for runaround pond road and a few other areas that um we could certainly include this in that section of the land use ordinance

that we would come just like we were under state standards for the electrical, state standards for plumbing, state standards for MUCE that we would now be under the state standards uh for forestry. And I can try to get some wording together to present to you guys so you get an idea what that looks like. If you'd like, I'd be happy to do that. Um, I'm always a big fan of turning things of putting the burden on the state entirely, but ultimately that's going to be a town meeting decision.

Yeah. And that's part of the thing is what can you sell? Yeah. Can you sell giving it up to the state or can you sell that we still got skin in the game? We're just using their rules and they're going to come in and help us out.

Yeah. Either way, it would have to go to town meeting. Correct. Yeah. No, I understand. Yeah. That's why I wanted you guys to have it because it's got to go to town meeting. the state we should yeah make a recommendation.

Yeah. Um so we probably make a recommendation to the selectman and the selectman put it on the warrant. Yeah. Which option? Um I don't know. Considering that we're letting the state enforce our shoreland, maybe we don't care. Maybe it's fewer resources.

The only thing they're enforcing there is for is actual logging. So as far as this here, right? Yeah. I would love to get us to get the de the shoreline zone adopted as part of our own ordinance and get it put in there because we have to everybody has to comply by it anyway. I don't understand why you wouldn't do it.

You're under it whether you like it or not. You might as well put it in your own ordinance. Makes the state worry about it and then the state has to enforce too. Well, it makes it really We're doing one now or start an application in the shoreline zone. It makes it extremely complicated for folks trying to get a permit to build in the shoreline zone. so much more complicated than if we had adopted the state shoreland zone guidelines for our own ordinance.

Yeah, it's really hard on and I always feel bad for folks when things are extremely cumbersome in front but I don't understand why they need to be that way. So you got plenty to review. The [clears throat] state statute is something just go through it. It just allows him boards of appeals to use an access imposition to due to setback as a legal

standing for appeal. You can you can overturn an ordinance that doesn't allow you to encroach if you're putting in a handicap ramp or something, but our ordinance actually already allows for that. So, it's not an addition, but it it is now part of state statute. So, I just thought you ought to have the legislative update on that. So you're talking about

second page one the D stuff is actually changes in the D rules for spatial requirements in the shoreline zone that's new so that's something you might want to just look at but we don't have this right no but the but folks will so if someone comes before you for a any conditional use permit or anything else you'll want to be able to assess the square footage of expansion and various things that may come into play in regards to that. There's just stuff that you'll need to know. So, I'm just trying to pass stuff up around so everybody's reading a blizzard.

Okay. So, this is So, why do we have this? That's the one with the with the new guidelines for boards of appeal in regards to ADA access and encroachment. Well, why do we have a little arrow up here? I made notes on my copy and I copied. Okay. Gotcha. No, I just didn't know if I was supposed to be looking at something else.

I'd already gone through and made a bunch of little spots on it and then I realized I needed to copy it. So, you got my little arrows and comments and various things that Gotcha. So, it's just this 4a that's it is correct. Yeah. But just so you know that this the statute now exists. So, um, fortunately with your ordinance, I ran into this early on that that stair steps and ramps are not don't fall within the setback requirement because we are I've already done two handicap ramps in the in the setback.

if you've got any brain space. roads in the land use ordinance and in the in the subdivision ordinance are different. The wording is different. The requirement for the road committee is different. The subdivision ordinance says that the road committee can actually accept a road in the subdivision. And I'm sure it didn't mean to, but it says that it says that there are three members of the road committee for acceptance of subdivision. There are four members of the road committee for acceptance of roads throughout the town. That's one thing I'd like to go before the board with with the warrant coming up to just make sure that the language in both of those sections is identical because it should be. And state law requires that it has to go to legislative body. The road committee can't accept the road.

Yeah. Can you um bring us proposed language? That'd be great. And we'll recommend it to the select minute. Y I may throw in a few pages [clears throat] more in there too. [laughter] But we will be reading. How about that backlog, aren't it?

Sorry. Yeah. Well, yeah. Now that you Oh, no. We can do a trade. Let's do [laughter] a trade. Let's throw this down here. So, thanks. Thanks. I know it's late. Um Where are we at with minutes? Where did I What did I do with my minutes? So much paperwork.

brands players. I don't think I've ever had anybody that was yes I would rephrase that. So, um, meets the noise standards. Yeah. And then I put and moves. address that was on the DVD. Yeah. And moves that. Um, how about further moves?

Sure. Okay. Um, Oh, page four. And further moves that the permit be granted on. conditional on that the permit be granted conditional on um meeting the noise standards in the ordinance. I just want to make sure it's clear that these are conditions of granting the permit.

Okay. Because it's different from what you said on the DVD. Find it meets the noise standards and we can address the others. The condition. What's the condition? The permanent want to read that back if you've got it. Sure. and Tor Gome moves to find that it meets the noise standards and further moves the permit only be granted as

as long as it meets as long as it is meeting the noise standards in this ordinance. Close enough. Yeah. Because what you said is great with what is there in black and white. Right. Well, our minute should be now summary and I'm I'm of understanding and this might be helpful to me to see that we're all on the same page on this when it comes to things like noise ordinance and odor and so on that the the burden of proof lies on whoever it is that feels it's being violated to prove that it's being violated.

They need to provide proof that the decibel level has been exceeded. There's there's got to be some demonstrable evidence. Well, I I mean, we don't have a noise ordinance. We do have a standard for sound. There's a decibel level of

the properties, right? Right. But that only comes into effect when you're considering a conditional use permit. That's not a standalone standard. Like, I don't think you could go out and violate and charge someone with violating the noise standard. I don't think you can. I don't think it's written that way.

And well, for a conditional use, I can. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. As long as we make it a condition of the permit. I was under the impression it already was. That's Well, I think it's a criteria that we have. So, the applicant says no, I'm not going to exceed these noise standards, right? And we say yes, no. But if we don't make it a condition, I don't think those noise standards carry further.

Okay. Carry with the permit. So, but if it is it as a condition of a conditional use permit, Yep. because it's all of the criteria are essentially conditions. Some of them are modified in some ways and others. Some can be waved. Uh but should should someone say I think that these guys are violating that and would like me to act on it, they need to bring they need to provide proof. It's not for me to go provide proof that it's being violated. I don't have to go get a decibel meter and go sit in someone's driveway. Well, I think it's your job to investigate. I mean, it's your job to investigate land use violations.

Well, it is, but but that's what I'm saying. The burden of proof lies on the accuser. They So, they would have to in some measure find a way to back up an accusation other than me just showing up to see if and I would just show up to see if there's a lot of noise going on. And I may actually have a reason to say something because someone has actually filed a complaint. Um, but short of proving that they I I can't prove by hearing it if they're exceeding it.

Well, but it's so if you think about it, the violation of a land use ultimately could wind up in a land use enforcement case in ADK. So that's us bringing it. It's not the abuter. It's not the complainant. Same thing. If you report a crime to the cops, you're not obligated to go prove that that crime is committed. The cops investigate. You're sort of the cop here.

investigate to a certain degree. So, if you think that someone's just making stuff up, further that conversation. I want to think about it a little bit because typically it's not a situation that I have any legitimate way to prove unless I set a decibel meter somewhere. But if someone as a neighbor that has a, you know, certified decibel meter and, you know, can give me a credible

Sure. Well, you can rely on that. Yeah. And say, you know, this is what happened at 9:00 last night and they start to document that sort of stuff, that's fine. But if someone just calls me up and says, "Hey, they're making too much noise,

that's not a legitimate complaint to me." Well, it it may be if there's a condition and we have reason to believe it exceeds the things. I mean, there Well, that's the thing. If it's specific in decibb, how do we have a reason to believe they've exceeded unless we know what the decel rate is? I'm just trying to It's one of those things if I have to enforce it, I kind of looking for a way to

You're looking to the extent of your investigation. How far do you have to go to figure out what the the noise? Well, the noise and odor and stuff is all kind of like at the property line and you know there's a there's a bunch of stuff that's

um why don't we u do we want to approve these minutes and call the meeting to journ then we could talk about this all night one other item to take that off. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I see. Just take it off for The letter G. The letter G. Yeah, you're missing an E on an

Oh, uh Robert Bham stated that in his ex in his existing garage, which has one life, it has one lift. I don't want to It ain't that big a deal, but it has one lift and two bays and it may have two lives. May. Yeah, absolutely.

On the front page one. Yeah. Towards the bottom. Yeah. Yeah. Change the E to a T. That ain't big a deal. Spell check failed again. No. No. It's just I knew what you were talking about, but Yeah. The garage garage does have one life, but there's one left. It's

getting close tonight. Yep. um the only thing is that I would just reflect that attorney Bole on what page you talk about? Uh probably two. I just want the med the minutes to reflect that she represented Mr. Sunberg. She was here on behalf of Mr. Sunber.

Oh, it doesn't. I don't think so. Complete. Mhm. Page one. Mike Thberg through his attorney, Elizabeth Bopple, from Lambert Coff, Portland, requested to be heard. Da da da da da da da da. Done. That works. It covers it. Thank you. Sorry.

Yep. approve the January 7th, 2015 minutes with the changes discussed. Seconded. Second. Seconded. All those in favor? Do I hear another motion? Motion to adjurnn. Move to adjourn. We want to do a chairman first. Oh yeah.

Chairman, vice chairman. We probably should. The other thing we need to do is uh before we do Well, next month should be back as I told you this afternoon. Mhm. one of someone has to make a motion for who they would like to present as

the new chairman to the board and a motion to who they would like to submit as the new vice chairman to the board. Well, have a better board. Yeah. You want to wait for Mindy? Not me. Was it going to be a close vote? [laughter]

I understand that. More ducks in the pond. That's all. Yeah, we need more ducks. We do. We do. I've been trying to convince one of Mindy's neighbors to join us, but All right. So, I move to adjourn again. Look up. Second. Can we put that on the Go ahead. I'm sorry. Can we put

Mike seconded that I did chairman and vice chairperson at the beginning of the