TranscriptSelect Board Meeting ~ February 8, 2016

implemented. One of the things they implemented and they were doing and I'm not sure they're doing anymore is um prison basically prisoner uh if if you've got a jail that's under capacity and one that's over capacity, they would send some,

right? And the other prisons weren't supposed to charge for that. But county has been charging Oxford County $50 per prisoner per day. So Oxford has now said that if they don't get state aid they will cease to operate the prison before the end of the year that they are

going belly up and some people like well why are you paying this to Cumberland the the law says they can't charge you well we weren't really in a position to haggle since we had too many [laughter] prisoners most of them anyway

most of them as long as they can see the center line [clears throat] when you start bring well I'm going to rely Jeff's calculate in mind. here? He said we Okay. Thank you. Thank you. We'll call this workshop to order. We have three of the selectmen here and I believe one will be on his way. Um, we're going to start tonight with the fire rescue EMA budget.

versions of all these spreadsheets. handouts. Well, it What are your wishes? I did an overview of the budget. Do you want to revisit the budget or do you want to move on to the other pieces? I think we'll go down through what the budget part portion on our sheets here and see see if there are any changes that we want to make or not. And

yep. Um and then we can move on to the uh capital. did did you check my figures on the Yep. No, I did. I changed them actually to the chief's pay. Um, let's see. Does 57498 sound right? I had I I I had 579 and change and I rounded up to 575.

Yeah, I had 57498.01 I think is [laughter] what it came out to be this [clears throat] calculator. That's what I put in was 57498 which made the bottom line 30657758 I that just confuses the issue sometimes. you were correct.

It was in there wrong. So I did make that change. All right. Um everybody like round numbers at 575. I'm not going to beat $2. 575 is it's a nice round number. And so that's minus on the -690 off the bottom line, I think.

Medicare, workers comp should all should all change, I would think. Well, actually FICO doesn't go against mine. Uh I mean [clears throat] they're on the same line. FICA. if I left it. You better look at it because I'm not sure if I left formulas in my budget. If I left formulas in my budget when I punched the new number in, it should have recalculated it. But I'm pretty sure I think I left formulas in there, but I

Well, uh [clears throat] Fer your bottom line for FICO MS is uh you've got a new Yeah, in the updated sheets. Yeah, actually good point. I have an updated sheet for FIC. my updated sheet I have a requested total is 615478.

Um the total the mess inf uh we have it combined here. Oh okay. Yeah. Um well actually well it had 615478 and then retirement 3507. So that' be 96162 you do have the formulas updated. So that's another 103 off that one. number

in this one I had 220671 2206 roughly $24 off that and workers comp. Did you have a formula for that too? I I don't think workers comp is impacted by that. That's a flat Yeah. premium. It's not based on payroll. I thought it was based on

It is based on payroll change because we've already Oh, it's based on last year's payroll. Well, it it's based on on what we forecast to be this year's payroll. So, it's not going to change until after the first of the year and they'll do an audit. So, they always come in and do an audit and then they adjust it for the previous year. So,

okay. So well it is what it is for now. Okay. So that is a total of 1793 off the bottom line which includes the 1690 which that includes a 1690. is what I come up with. And what was and when I did it on the electronic version, I ended up with 30657758.

That sounds right because we're off by I add an extra $2 or so in. So, yeah. All right. Um, okay. [snorts] Sec starting at the the next line down, labor. Um, the budget increase this year is 4%. Um he's asking for about $2500 more than

was spent last year and that includes um a raise a raise to the rates uh is included in his summaries. Um I assume call volumes this for this just to make sure you're looking at the town's version correct? Yes. Yep. Okay.

Yeah. Which line are we on? uh eight Yeah. Yeah. And [clears throat] um I assume call rates been running about the same as it was last year. Yeah. It actually I increased pay rates by 2% and I pretty much based it. I think going back to what I said, I'd have to go look at formulas. I think I actually used 3% for a number. I figured there'd be a probably a slight increase in call volume and then a 2% pay rate increase is what I put on people's pay rates. So I think I used 3% actually for the number.

Um support and benefits section. I don't know that there's much we can do in that. So, uh, other than what we've already done due to the salary and operating expenses, did anybody see anything that I really didn't see anything that really stood out. Um,

utilities is zero. That's good. No, zero change. Yeah, that change. Yeah. Um, hopefully hopefully it stays that way. Everything seemed to fall in line with expenditures from last year and I didn't see anything unless somebody else saw something they wanted to um actually line 35. I'm not discussing the actual budget numbers, but do you have any more information?

I know you've been privy to some of the emails. I don't know if you've shared them, but I haven't. That opened a bit of a Pandora's box up that I actually have a meeting on Wednesday with Lisbon. I actually talked to the sheriff's department again today. I do have some preliminary numbers on from the communications people.

It uh and the preliminary numbers from the communications people are for they don't handle uh Bruntley. So they're for the sheriff's department and LA 911 [clears throat] set up radio equipment in I'm going to ballpark this, so don't hold me to it, but I believe one was almost $7,000 and the other was almost $8,000. It was either almost seven and it was $1,000 difference. It was either almost seven and almost eight or it was almost eight and almost nine. It was $1,000 difference between the two. It's either eight and nine or seven and eight. That was setup costs. In both cases, they were recommending a dedicated IT line. Um, which from what I've I'm not real familiar with that, but from what I understand, you have to pay a rental fee just like a telephone line. And from what I've heard, it ranges probably for us would range $150 to $300 a month for the the telephone line.

If I remember correctly, the telephone line one we had was like the telephone line was actually something like I could go back to the previous budget, but I actually think it was somewhere Yeah. around 250 to 300 is what rings a bell. So, and

um so in both those cases where it would not be done with a radio link, it's not just a one-time setup fee. There's other costs besides the actual PAP and dispatching fees. It uh [clears throat] do do you see an increase in service at any of the places that you're talking and

I gotta be I mean, as you said, it's not in all honesty, apples to apples. that um I got to try to do this politically. It uh but it uh yeah it the sheriff's department in all honesty and fairness it would be very similar. Um and in all honesty all three of the cases would be one-stop shopping. Other cases would be one-stop shopping. The sheriff's department is a 911 PA

center. So your call would be dispatched by the same center that was receiving it. LA 911 is a PAP as well. So they would be the same place that your call was going to. And Brunswick if they're interested. I got to be honest, I haven't even approached Brunswick. I don't know if they're interested. Um but if Brunswick is interested, they're a PAP as well. Out of the the four dispatch centers we've been talking about, the only one that is not a PAP is Lisbon. Um it uh so that is definitely a

big difference because it's just a transfer maybe from one station to another station instead of a transfer from one office to another office. Um, so that makes a change there and a change to the call, the person making the call. Cuz if you've ever called 911, the current system in many cases, what happens is 911, what's your emergency type deal, you'll tell them and then they'll start to take information or they'll if it's an EMS call because they they have to take they have to EMD it is what they call it, emergency medical dispatch. They have to do that before they transfer it. Unless they have two dispatches. Otherwise, what they'll say is, "Stand by I'm going to transfer you." And they transfer you to the appropriate service. All they actually do in many cases is just receive the call. Um they don't dispatch any units. So in some cases they transfer the information, some cases they transfer

the actual call. Um, so for people on the 911 end that I mean I guess the bottom line is you've got an emergency. You don't want to be put on hold while they pull up the next person [laughter] to transfer your call [clears throat] to.

Um, yeah. So it definitely takes any one of the others at a PAP definitely take a step out of the process. As far as the levels of uh service, I would say Lisbon and the I've got a meeting Wednesday with Lisbon and I'm hoping we can resolve some of the issues and stuff like that. They seem very receptive. Um

we're sitting down and talking about it. Do they have any statistics on the delay time between going do they have any statistics on the delay time between when the call comes into uh the PE the PF and to when they transfer to the

well the standards that it's supposed to be met it time standards for the actual call transfer that it's supposed to happen within a certain amount of time. Um so do they have any is there any recorded statistics whether they meet those standards or not?

Yeah. Yeah. Well the [clears throat] burden of documentation of proof falls upon the the PAP not necessarily Lisbon. Lisbon's not responsible for transferring the call. The other senators are actually responsible for transferring the call. Um, I guess I got to be totally honest that the sheriff's department, I actually my call to them today was not about transferring our service. It was rather about um the other night we were dispatched to Stackpole Road and they dispatched United and us simultaneously. It even says that and when I talked to the head dispatcher, it even said that in the notes for the emergency that they contacted Durham and United. Um Saturday we were dispatched to 105 Pinkham Brook Road. Well, when we found out 105 Pinkham Brook Road had no children. Um they contacted the comp center and the comp center contacted the sheriff's department and they given the wrong number. So we had to switch to actually

about 600 numbers different. And same thing has happened recently. So um with [clears throat] Rabbit Road. So that was like the third instant of instance of mistakes in dispatching stuff. So that was part of my call there. So I have my reservations about where the sheriff's department is right now.

So they had given you the wrong address. Yes. Yes. And for most people in the field, their perception is that we are the dispatching service and we have that refcts certainly poorly on dispatching service or the time for the call transfer otherwise than perhaps trying to buy the best possible service we can for the town. Um, but anyways, you asked about the qualities [clears throat] of service. 911. I'll be honest, when I talked to 911, they were very interested in doing it with us, and they have a um I don't mean to slight anybody, but they have a service that it is a full service, but so it it costs more money. Uh you pay for the full service, but I'm not sure if that one would end up being affordable because I talked with some of the other communities about their prices. They weren't bad comparatively, but one of the things when I talked to her, um, she was reluctant to give me a price over the phone. One, until she

talked to her board, and two, until she actually took a look at staffing, call volume and staffing. Um, because if we're the straw that breaks the camel's back, the others are not going to do cost sharing on the straw that breaks the camel back. We're going to pick up the tab for that straw. So

we'd end up kind of double paying at that point because we Yeah, I'm not sure that it's really I'm I'm not sure at this time unless another community was looking at going to LA 911 that it's c would is going to come back being cost effective

because we're already paying for pap through the county taxes. Well, actually LA 911 would do our PAPapping, right? But we it's through our county tax. It's a separate fee. It is a separate fee. Okay. It's a separate fee.

It used to be part of the county taxes. That was separated a long time ago or they were going to go to court. Okay. Um, [clears throat] so Brunswick I haven't got a hold of but Brunswick's service is very similar to LA 911 and they are a PAP but here again Freeport and Pound the ones we actually started with some of our shared services with um are actually dispatched by Brunswick currently. It uh quality of service I don't know a lot of the intricacies. I just know how it's dispatched and what comes out over the air. And I'd say it's very similar to LA 911 in how it's transmitted and handled in the system within.

Is there a benefit since we have relationships with Freeport and Powell and and mutual aid? Is there [clears throat] a benefit of being on the same being dispatched out of the same location as our primary mutual aid groups? But [clears throat] if you look at it from that perspective and you look how the community is laid out, it uh the community in all honesty, some of the situations I was referencing with Lisbon, Lisbon's fire department's actually closer to that. And we have automatic mutual aid just for that reason because it's end result is not about our nose getting bent. The end result is supposed to be about the quality of the service that the citizens receive. So if another department is closer, it's not in their best interest for us. We're gonna go.

No, it's whoever gets there. Whoever gets there first is actually a very ideal. Nothing against [clears throat] Brunswick, Freeport or Pound, but even if I add Freeport and Pound together, cuz our maps are broken down, our dispatching and our districts are broken down by the next closest community. And there's four communities that are closer. Um, some that are very

close to being that, but there's there's very there's actually five. Brunswick's a very small portion for their station. Lisbon is probably almost 50% of the community that they're fairly close to. Um Freeport and Pound small slice over this way and um Auburn the small slice up toward Stackpole Road Boyill Road.

Lisbon probably is closer to a larger portion of the community than well actually it's closer to a larger portion of the community than the other three added together. So Lisbon in all honesty for otherwise and the fact that the the 911 calls aren't received there as far as service and sharing services and automatic responses and stuff. Lisbon in all honesty is in the best interest of the town of Durham. If we could work out the issues and maybe get them their PAP back, it would be great. But their pap's never coming back. It uh but yeah, so I [clears throat] you know sharing with Freeport and Panel was definitely a big plus at uh you know and they they are probably Lisbon's about a little probably around 50% maybe a little more. um Freeport and Pound of the Lion shares of the remaining remaining piece of the community. And as far as automatic mutual aid in order to keep people's insurance down, the two communities, we

really need [clears throat] their services and their proximity to the citizens in town of Lisbon for automatic aid because believe it or not, there's pieces of the day road, Shiloh Road, and even 125 that are beyond 5 miles which most insurance companies use for um grading it. uh Auburn Powell Road and Stackpole Road and the Glouester Road that's over 5 miles from our station. So, North Pal station, those two communities are very beneficial to have automatic mutual aid agreements with the town because it keeps our citizens so they don't pay for otherwise the citizens that are paying taxes into our system would actually be considered a class 10 town which you can go up north and buy a camp that's 200 miles from a fire department and you'll be going to be class 10. So they'd be saying paying the same rates,

right? Too much and not enough. No, it was useful and and and my question wasn't a slam on anybody. It was truly because I didn't know what the Y if there's how that all overlaps. Yeah. In all honesty, I would love to work out Lisbon. So we were actually moving forward and and having had things straightened out and so that we were doing things different because you know

Yeah. And there's [clears throat] going to be a fancy new bridge. I don't see the PAP options. And that's why I said the other night when I was sitting here that I think by the the cost by the time we move um that I'm going to recommend what I think is best for the town of Durham. And right now, if I had to pick what's best depending on the numbers that we get back for the dispatching service, I' I'd recommend that as far as the the best service, we

go with LA 911. I don't have Brunswick back yet, but if I look at cost and best ISO grading, automatic mutual aid, well, I think it's definitely I think it changes the whole texture and the whole look of the picture and that we really should try to work things out with the town of Lisbon that uh he's a guy that has to do it in the field behind me. Feel free to ask him if you'd like, but I think he's going to be inclined to agree that we'd really be best if we could work it out with the town of Lisbon and make it so it worked there.

I mean, if you if you look at from a cost benefit analysis and things like that, you're talking probably you're saying 8,000 for switchover plus another probably three $3,600 $3,000 or something for the dedicated line. So, the first year is going to be $11,000 and more and after and then or

well $9,000 more and then it'd be roughly $1,000 more after that. But if you're not getting any better service um and that's that's just kind of looking at going with county if you're [clears throat] not if you're not getting any better service and no uh that's why when I was it was requested I do it and I'll follow through with the report and stuff but the bottom line is I think what I am going to recommend is going to be twice as expensive as what we're paying. I don't think there's any going to be any cheaper options just because of the moving expenses and the dedicated IT line and stuff like that. So I don't think there's any cheaper options than what we currently have. So

yeah and this yeah if and if you're not going to get if we go with let's say county is probably going to be the then you know the next probably going to be the next closest price price range and so on and and you're not going to get much if any better service and there's no

right now we have a radio link so there's no telephone lines IT lines or anything like that to make it work. We do use internet um for our uh software, our record keeping software and stuff like that. U but it's not a dedic it doesn't have to be a dedicated line. It has to, you know, have the firewalls and be secured and everything like that. But we don't have to have a dedicated line for operation of that. So, um, I don't think I'm going to, yeah, [clears throat] I don't think any of my numbers are going to come back operationally or as far as, you know, PAP and dispatching service. Yes, the numbers may come back, but it's cheaper, but at the sheriff's department, but by the time we pay for the dedicated line, not just the installation, but the monthly fees for the dedicated line, it's probably going to be, I'm guessing, at least$1red to $150 more per month. So

12- $1,800 more per year than what we're So we need to we'll save 2050 cents in per capita dispatching cost. So it's going to be almost a wash at least initially be very close but then we have the setup fees. [clears throat]

Okay. So and just for your information um on this line we've taken uh 1690 out of line seven because that was a calculation error. So it was it was it this one here? Yeah. Yeah. So we're at 575. Okay. We made it an even number.

So really the only significant changes in the operating budget from last year are essentially things that are beyond our control. They are the the increase in the workers comp and the increase in the FICA MS as a result of the fact that we finally used up our decades old credit.

Yeah. And those are are two things that we have really no control pretty much. Yeah. Actually, in all honesty, to soften the blow wherever I could, I actually, if you look, some of those lines are actually show a reduction. And some of that was based on not needing particular pieces any longer and trying to soften the blow as much as I could.

Y um we also took 103 out of uh line 15 based on what we did up above and 24 out of line 16. So the three and 29 you said 24 for a total of 1817. the other lines because we were looking down through and No. Okay. So, we can go on to your uh capital requests here. Yeah. [clears throat] Um,

[cough] it uh I think they're in the packet. I don't think I separated them. Yeah, there's one under the uh budget requests. Joint, fire, rescue, EMA budget requests and like a third of the way down we start doing the capital stuff. So first one on the page is the fire station

way back on your p. No, we're on we we're actually on your on mine. Okay. Yep. Fire station payment. Fire this one. Well, I've written some notes but that [clears throat] fire station payment's the first one. Yeah, actually it's 14 or 14. Yay.

So that's that's a given. Might be easier if I gave you these. It just told you the last piece of this packet is actually the you asked about the capital spreadsheets. [snorts] I didn't include it going back all the way. I started with like page four which is 2011 or something like that. Um

so if you just take the last packet in this, it actually is I think actually he meant for you to have one. But I think he meant for me to have this. [clears throat] The last staple packet in that package is actually the capital

There's mine starts with page four, but on the back of the packet it has one, two, three. But anyways, that we don't really need that. Uh going based on my cover sheet, it uh last of the station payments. If you go to page five actually in that capital plan um would cover this year's it covers last year's the actual expense and the revenues that came in whereas in the column it's 2015 actual and then in

2016 it covers the requests it uh so anyways it uh looking at the cover sheet the station payment for 39508 is in there. It uh on my cover sheet I have it at 3950953. I don't know why I have that discrepancy because it's always been a little under. Um but then based on looking at some of what we've been doing and stuff and looking at some of the apparatus um and looking at the rescue revenues last year, which I don't think are going to stay up there. That was primarily due to some flu occurrences that I wouldn't count on. I guess if I see a two or three year history of that, I'd be comfortable with changing it. But if I don't see a two or three year history of that, I'd just call it a windfall and say thank you. Um, but I did increase the projection, the revenue projection. And going back to what I had previously planned on asking, I actually going back in time that had been more than 45.

But anyways, what I put in the plan was the town's contribution was last year at 40 was increasing the town's contribution to the plan to 45. So that's a change of 5,000. Station payment, that's the last one as we discussed. Quimp payment, it would [clears throat] be number three of six for 33,000. And on the cover sheet, I put it at $33,04, but at the actual payment for this one is actually $33,38.

time we met about that what I'd really like to do is take care of instead I had them spread out through the capital plan that last year we didn't spend a lot out of the capital plan. this year if we do the even if we do the truck the way the apparatus committee is recommending it there'd be no expense this year towards the replacement engine. So I think especially with paving where it's at that this is perhaps the year that we should look at it. You actually look at the new cover sheet I gave you that's actually based on updated price quotes. At our last meeting I said I'd go out and verify all the numbers if that's the path we were going to go down. So the number you're seeing on page five where it says station work is also actually based on actual price quotes of they came in at 698. The

[clears throat] what I ended up with was paving came in at 53,000 which that wasn't just quickly paving it. It was actually cutting out the cracks um and redoing that piece of it so that we didn't just put the one inch of finish coat on it and end up losing it. I guess from conversation with crook, what came back is most of the fire stations now are going with like three or four feet of concrete in front of their doors. Instead of doing the paving right away just so that there's a gradual cushion transition, they insulated underneath and do a cushion transition out of it. If you look at ours, it's it's exactly what they describe it. Uh I've already had it fixed once, but we have ruts about this deep. they only drop a half an inch, but when they're dropping out of that station, the they hammer enough, so they just like a constant compactor. So anyway, that 53,000 includes doing that. The [clears throat] 10,500.

I verified that price quote. Um, it was for the trim and the painting because I quoted last year. They just they said to leave the number alone. They're good with the number. It just it included some of the interior stuff, but some of the interior stuff we've actually done on our own and stuff. We never do the bays. I don't know if I can get the interior of the bays done, but they felt that would be enough to address the outside even though it was last year's price quote [clears throat] floor. It uh that is based on a a price quote. I did call that number and I left him a message. I haven't heard back from him, but at this point, unless he's substantially less, um, I guess I'd go with what I have in there. 2900 is actually the price quote rounded up. The price quotes a local contractor and his quote was actually 2860.

if you guys choose, if I understand correctly, it made the trip in the um telecommunications budget. That's actually a duplicate from the telecommunications budget request. I think we're we've discussed that some. I think we're going to go with it there rather than here.

Right. Yeah, that's what we decided. So we that we can remove that one from this. So they could actually be reduced by 3,400. So that would be 664 Yeah. Rather than 69A. [clears throat] would include the that would cover most of the issues at the station that need attention in the foreseeable future.

Not to say there's not going to be others down the road. And and I absolutely don't dispute at all the importance of paving that to save it. I I can tell you from the number of people that we have had sitting in those chairs wanting to know when our roads are going to get paved that standing up at town meeting and saying that we're going to spend $50,000 paving the parking lot is going to get a little push back. I think people are are pretty

pretty riled about getting some paving done on the on the road. So just warning you to be prepared. No, I I fully understand that. Bottom line is I know my take on it is what I try to do at my house is if I try to and I I know people find this hard to believe but I do try to manage it like personal I pay taxes in town just like everybody else and um you know at my house if I get something to a certain level I try to maintain it that level and get everything else there at some point

and if you don't it's much more expensive to fix I fully understand how there's going to be push back about well but the bottom line is is actually Cooker said it and Calvin said that that that really should have been done three or four years ago that we're going to lose the paving if we don't do it. So then we can go down the same path we do with the roads substantially more expensive to fix those. So

my vote would be to maintain and it's not just because it's the fire department. My vote would be to maintain what we have and then add to it. I agree. You missing the same thing with the town. So we've got [clears throat] to we've got to save what we have or we're going to be

Well, that's fine. I got broad shoulders. I'm ready for it. If you guys let me go to the floor representing that, I'll go to the floor representing it. So, if we take these one at a time, uh the first one, the fire station payment, that's

nob brainer, right? We got to do that. Uh [clears throat] next one, what we'll authorize to uh put into the capital improvement account. Um last year we did 40. Uh request is 45 this year. thoughts. I I would be inclined with all the other things to to do 40 rather than the increase of 45 where there was the extra windfall and and $10,000 more in in intercepts than than you were planning on that sort of boosted the the revenue.

I was going I was going to suggest to split that between the two, but I mean you could be cutting hairs at that point, I guess. So, I will show say if you if you look and I think I represented this last year. I tried to mellow it a little because last year I'd represented 10 and I tried to mellow it to so that the increases were like $5,000 per year for the town's contributions into there and stuff, but it uh yeah, I don't think rescue revenues generated rescue revenues. Actually, there's been questions on us whether we should put it there or not, but I don't think rescue generated rescue revenues will keep pace with the inflationary rate on some of the apparatus and equipment we have to buy. So,

I mean, if you historically [clears throat] it stayed roughly the same until this year and been staying revenues. Yeah, actually they they had a high point. It I wish I knew where my one of you must have a page one through three. Um, but anyways, it uh cuz I had

a special packet with me in case there were questions about page one through three. It's actually in the back. But anyways, it going back in time cuz Keith behind me, he's one of the ones that wow, can't you increase those rescue revenues at one point cuz we did have a fear that came up to like about four years ago, 5 years ago that came up around 52, 53, right? Might have even been 54. I I I really think that was based on a a specific situation. Is that what you're saying?

No, it actually what it was was these packets for capital budget all started four, five, and six and seven, but I actually in my own I'd made it so I had one, two, three after I got a one, two, three, four here. So, but we won't worry about it. That [laughter] you've got one, two, three.

I got a one, two, three, and a four hooked to it at the back. Well, right here. I got one, two. You got the double double secret packet. Then if yours starts at four and goes to seven and then has one, two, three at the tail end of it.

Well, I got one, two, three, four there and then I got four, five, six. No, the whole pack. It'll be a single packet with just one, two, three at the tail end of it. Oh, no. And I got page seven, too. You're all set. Phew.

Okay. I thought we were going to have to call those nec guys on you. [clears throat] Um, No. Uh, I mean, I I see where he's trying to go. I mean, I do I do wonder if it might be a little more palatable on the paving side if we dropped it to 40, but at the same time, you know, if we left it where where it is, then the budget committee could hemaul over it. What do we have in it now? That account. What?

What do we have in that account now? Yep. Actually, if you look at 2015, page four number, no, sorry, page five. 2015 where it says actual, right? And you look at the very bottom. I think that probably comes pretty close to agreeing with your numbers that [clears throat]

157762 because theoretically what we should actually try to do with this account is it Allan used to always say with this and I hated to listen to it but I have to agree with them. We should not be doing it based on anticipated revenues from like rescue and stuff like that that it's one thing if we do it based on revenues generated by the town. So theoretically when it on the actual columns that bottom number [clears throat]

according to this it's 157 plus the town's contribution should never exceed what our expenses are or we're actually basing our expenditures on anticipated revenues generated from a service rather than tax revenues and actual cash on hand. Does that make sense what I said?

Yeah. What? Yeah. So that there should be enough in here to cover it if you didn't get none of the other. Basically, in the ideal situation, that actual column should cover our expenses for the next year. You're going to find years that it's going to

go up or down a little, but as long as it's staying pretty close and it's not drastically under. So, we're at 157 plus right now. And um if we do everything that's listed here, take taking out of the account everything that's listed here, that's 139. So it's a difference of 8,

right? Because my paper actually shows 142 3108, but it's actually reduced by 3,400. I mean that's what you talked about probably doing was taking that out. Yeah. So out. Turned my pay. Is that what you were saying? I know. Well, I saw the truck go by. Wait a minute.

know what our budget's going to be looking like this year with because we are going to be putting in a uh uh likely putting in for roads. Quite an impressive looking group, aren't they? Huh? Yeah. especially a group of volunteers providing that excellent service right there. [laughter]

Especially at night. I mean, they they really show up nicely. Um, good light bulbs. going to be a pretty hefty shock and so on. Um, $5,000 doesn't necessarily make or break the budget either way. And I mean I I know looking into the

future it it may make sense but I can make it easy for you if you would like. I'll make it easy for you. Split the difference and call it 50. Split the difference. [laughter] Amen. I was going 425. Like I say just splitting hands at that point. So,

you know, I can I say something? Last year, I talked a little bit about people voting, and if they have no reason to come out and vote, why are they going to come out and vote? At some point, there's got to be a difference for them to vote for. This is a perfect example of you put your number in, let the budget committee put their number in, let the town decide.

That's where I was going with it. I mean, well, but but really on all ideally situation, the budget committee and the Suckman's budget should be pretty darn close. Look out for the best interest of the town. And it shouldn't be a competition.

So, don't complain that nobody comes out to vote. Well, I'm just saying it's not it's not really about it shouldn't be a competition between the two committees. That's really not why it's set up. And if there was competition to draw people,

yeah, they really should be pretty close. The budget committee is basically a balancing check. It really [clears throat] is what that is. So if you end up getting a competition between the two, both committees are doing something [cough] wrong. So that's really not what that's about. So

the chief is telling you what he thinks he should have to run the fire department. No, I agree. And and I and I understand that too. And I want to kind of briefly mention this early. Those are looking at something else that somebody sent in here. That person is worried about theirs. The chief's worried about his road commissioner's worried about his. The town office is worried about theirs. But we got to worry about everybody's, including the taxpayers, which you guys are worried about taxpayers, too. So, it's it puts us in a little different spot than it does you guys with your entities. I mean, I I get where you're going with this. I I I'd like to say yes, too. I really do. I get it. But, you know, I also see what's coming down the road with that Sarah mentioned earlier with the roads and stuff and I don't, you know,

and and my initial proposal about reducing it from 45 to 40 was a reflection of the fact that when on this spreadsheet, it factored in an anticipated [clears throat] among the anticipated transport revenues was $48,000. It turned out to be 62,250.

So, $14,000 more than expected. So, if we have a really tight budget year this year, we're not really pulling out of by taking 5,000 out, it's not really reducing your bottom line by 5,000 because you've got this unexpected other money in there.

So, it's still [clears throat] it's not having a dramatic impact on the bottom line that there there is two ways to look at. If you go to page four, I didn't give you the previous page, but if you go to page four and look at actual and look at what was anticipated for transport from 2012, we anticipated 48. We got 43 to

49. 2013, we anticipated 48. We got 43,066. 2014, we anticipated 48 and got 47687. So I guess my point is is it this year here I don't think we should base things on what this year shows. I it uh I don't think we should base them on those low years because going back in time I really think that and I don't know

whether right historical I was really just trying to look at the numbers that I've seen sort of across the whole spectrum of the down for this year and how we can judge them all and and try to cover everybody to the best of our ability. I actually [clears throat] anticipating them at 52,000 for next year at the

I I kind of agree on that because yeah, if [clears throat] we go it doesn't fit the pattern, but it's likely, you know, I can't show 62,000 in revenues and not into and only anticipate 48. What was the increase in transports though last year? I mean, I assume there was

I don't have the numbers right in front of me, but it I want to say last year we actually didn't do normally we we do aroundund out in left field on this. I want to say it's about 190 to 200 EMS calls. Our actual transports [cough and clears throat] were about 120 130. I think last year our EMS transports were about 180. So, I want to say that's a number that I I can remember seeing. You remember when they just sent out the um spreadsheet on last year's incident

patient run reports? I want to say the number in there was around 180 190 for actual transports, not for runs. everybody in every department what they want, your transports will go through the roof when property taxes come up because THERE WILL BE CARDIAC ARREST EVERYWHERE.

We don't like how making sure. [laughter] But in all actuality to to uh Keith's point, if people have the interest in what their tax dollars are, they should come out whether there's difference between the budget committee or not because they can change it on the town floor. they have that option. And not only that, but if you look out there and you see what's been showing up for the town meetings since we [clears throat] don't really have to deal with the school budget like we used to, that's where the biggest part of your budget goes. And a lot of those people don't show up anymore. And a lot of those people when they did come back then

when it was over, they got up and left. So you ended up with the same amount of people. So but this year it's going to be in Durham. And the only time they have a lot of concern is when they get their tax bill for two weeks. That's all you hear about. But then they don't show up. That's where they should show up. They should show up at the town meeting and either add or subtract and listen to what you guys have to say. That's really where they should. But we can't we can't bust them there. At least I'm not going to bust them there.

Has in in the past when you've stood on the town floor, have we have we talked about the capital improvement plan and and the money that you know you've kind of broken down? Mhm. I mean, I know you've demonstrated it for us before so that you could show that this is where we need to be. This is what the replacements, you know, whichever years. So, you could show that you're trying to do this without have a huge spike.

Yeah, it uh Yeah. No meeting. If you look across this over the course of the years and stuff, that's actually to me what that's what a capital improvement plan is supposed to do. It's supposed to project your expenditures and try to going back in time. Some of you may not be old enough, but back back along we used to would all of a sudden get hit with a $300,000 expenditure and stuff and it was just a spike for that one or one year or two years.

Oh, I would love to see this much planning for every asset that we own in town. I think it would be brilliant if [laughter] we had this organized for for everything. Yep. Was 2014's 35 or was that 40 for this? I remember you I remember you showing us pretty sure all the spreadsheets show 40. We have the person that knows right here.

20 I actually think I asked for 50 actual 2014 was 35. You asked for 40. 2015 was 40. Right. Yeah. That's what I was thinking. Yeah. It's on page four. So if you go ahead though, you can see it's jumping to 50. I got two page four. So

you weren't talking about last year. You were talking about two years, right? Yeah. I'm sorry. Yes, I was talking about 2014. I'm sorry. I'm still Last year is 2015. 14. hold on this one until we have a full board? I don't know if that I don't think that'll make a big difference.

I mean, I I don't mind going splitting the difference. 425, not 50. [laughter] I was trying to figure how that was splitting. We're in a different math class. All right. 4750. did it. He had never been. Sorry. I mean, that's [clears throat] I I know that come down here, he's going to have a fight. I shouldn't say fight. I don't like to look at that, but he's going to have a lot of questions about the pavement and all this other stuff, but I think the pavement thing. So,

protect investments. I I agree. I'm not doubting that a bit. Just a matter of what people and I said it last year. It all depends on what you guys want to have for tax. Protect investment sometimes is hot. And we did take, you know, four the the 4,000 or 30 I crossed it out so I can't read it. The 3400 3,900 for the cameras that would have come out of your budget. We were able to shift that into

It would have come out of your capital money. We were able to shift that into telecommunications. What are you trying to say? It's actually a net gain of $900 when I'm all said and done. Exactly. See, you're winning. look at this this line and and in in the pre in the, you know, coming years, it has to go up and I see you've got it all the way up to 75,000 in 2022. I mean,

and the other thing I'm concerned is um with engine 22 replacement, whether it's whether we decide to go with it this year or next year or when we decide to go with it. Um that's going to start taking a pretty hefty hit on us because uh you have it listed here. I think it was seven years at 72,500 is what I counted.

Um it is listed. Yeah. If I if I counted right, I think it was for 7 years, which would make sense for Yeah. 725 at 7 years on the purchase price. [clears throat] Um the actual package price was 474 and I figured we were going to come out somewhere around between 500 and 510 if we get a 2 and 12 to 3% interest rate

somewhere in there. That's that's really going to start hitting that account um pretty heft pretty hard. Um we will uh the [clears throat] fire station payment ends this this is our last year which is is good but this is not quite but close to twice as much as that.

Yeah. Yeah. It uh you know I think some of the plan the plan lays it out. It does it only goes to 24. Um and there is a spell there where it starts to going back in time. It was a quick what municipality we and the budget committee wanted was a a catchup plan to bring the apparatus up so they were in good shape and stuff but and [clears throat] and I think we've done that but in order to get the plan kicked off like not not the engine 22 was actually and I don't think we've ever recommended one since then but I don't think it's necessarily negative piece of [clears throat] engine 22 or engine two at the time was actually we went the the very lowest price so that we could actually start the plan and get it moving. I think as we progress some of the investments and some of the apparatus and stuff I think the committee will have to gradually look at it and say well hey when exactly do we need to plug it in? I do think

2019 I think it is says the rescue. I do think the rescue was originally plugged in there 12 years and I do think in 2019 you town definitely want to be considering replacing the rescue if you um we're starting to see little issues coming up but the little issues are actually three to $5,000 issues which to me that starting to go beyond regular maintenance and stuff

yeah that's more than little issues that's more than little issues in my book it is. Yeah. If it was my vehicle, you know, the vehicle I have to take it proportionately because that equate to a 15 to a $200,000 repair on my vehicle if we do proportionally based [clears throat] on the price. But nevertheless, if I was starting to see repetitious repairs on my vehicle of $1,500 to $2,000 annually besides maintenance, I'd be starting to think about, well, okay, what's the future hold for me? So, I definitely think I actually think hopefully the recommendation from the committee for the engine flies. But I actually think once that starts happening, the committee is going to have to stay an active committee and start looking at what they're going to preparing recommendations so that not the purchase can happen in 19, but the delivery can happen in 19, which if you look at it realistically probably means approval in

18. If you're going to replace the rescue in 19, [clears throat] most of that stuff is 7 months to 14 15 months behind. Is the economy seems to be improving. If municipalities start to try to get back on track with some of this stuff and everything, I actually don't think wouldn't be a bit surprised to see 12 to 18 month delivery times down the road. And that's roughly what it would cost for a rescue is 50,000 a year.

What's that cost? No, no, that was a budgetary price. Going back, one of the things I we've tried to put in for grants. I don't know if we'll be successful to do our cardiac monitor, but one of the things that that includes the purchase price of a rescue and hopefully the replacement of a cardiac monitor because with the technology changes and with the equipment aging and everything, a cardiac monitor, the last one we bought was we got it through a grant, but it was like 28,000. with upgrades. It probably that we've done since it probably would have cost about 33 to 35. So that includes hopefully the funds for the actual rescue purchase, cardiac monitor, and the interest for payments.

with that. That's my thought. Whatever you splitting splitting it. Yeah. I mean, hairs at that point, but I know it's I know it's going to come. If I would reduce it at all, it would only be because of the the paving that needs to be done, but I mean, I I could agree with you on that 42. You know, I mean, ideally what we should do too is even though this payment of the fire station is going to be done this year, we should still keep that in somewhere here at this point,

whether it's to put towards if you guys get a new truck or whatever. That's that's money that's already set aside. So, we just wouldn't be taking out of the fund. That's what I'm saying. Um, so it's it that kind of frees up some fund because you've got a set amount that's going in, if when that rolls off, that frees up some funds that can be used towards something else,

right? Yeah. Yeah. Anything with a capital plan, anything you do, it's not necessarily the short-term impact, it's the long-term impact that you got to watch because that's where it'll bite you in the tail section. Well, that's why, you know, I asked about, you know, the presentation. I mean the so the town's folks have seen the impact of taking money out of this each year. Yeah. You know cuz I mean like I say you look here and and if you if you're following where where chief says we're supposed to be I mean it goes 45 50 55 all the way up to eventually 75,000 you know to to

keep the fund where it needs to be without seeing a huge spike. time, people are going to be and on about, you know, why why are you paying, you know, that's that's that's an expense there, too. So, I mean, [clears throat] if I would cut it at all, it would only that would, you know, like like you say, 425.

folks don't like it, they could vote it down, you know, and say no, stick it, you know, they could get back up on the floor and say leave it at where it was last year, you know, they they still may. I mean, they still have that option, right?

They still have that option to add it back in for that matter. Depends on how strongly they feel either way, right? That's true. That's true. Doesn't happen in our town meeting. [laughter] but you know, you never know. You got

new people moving in all the time. Last year, a couple things got things that could increase. the vote of the four. So, what's your thought then? Yeah, my thought was to drop it down to 40 as I said at the beginning just as a to reflect the the lots and lots of other things that are seem to be on the table this year.

I don't know. I I guess I could go with a 425. Um I'm I could go with any one of the three actually. And um if If we can get to the scheme of the the budget that we're talking about $5,000 is not it's minimal and I mean I I I could support I could support 45 as well but um for and um let it go to the town. Um the budget committee can make their recommendation as well. Um, I'm I think I I think I actually am leaning towards 45 because I I I see this uh the cost of this new engine is is so much more than it's been. I mean,

well, let's see. And being almost $500,000 when you're when all said and done, that's going to that's really going to uh give this fund a beating. um with se looked like seven years worth of it. And you know if and looking at these higher amounts in the in the following years is that you know

cuz cuz even it's more of a gradual step to get there. Even if we don't even if uh the town or or uh whatever doesn't decide to go with it this year, sometime in the next two three years, we're going to have to do it. We're going to have to replace this structure.

Well, that would be my next question, I guess, for the apparatus committee is the engine because it sounds like sort of the rescue and the engine are both on the front burner as far as replacement [clears throat] needs. And am I correct in understanding that the engine is the the bigger priority, but the rescue is is right behind it? Yeah, it [clears throat] I don't know if they've actually visited it as a committee, but um the the engine

this engine here was originally planned in at 20 years. Some of the other engines that were p or apparatus were purchased were questioned as to whether we extend that time frame because of the materials and and not necessarily I hate to focus on price because price doesn't always buy quality. Um, but the way they're constructed, yeah, that's better way to phrase it. The way they're constructed and the materials in them, some of the future ones may be able to look at a change in the age. As a general rule, rescues are replaced in the 5 to 10 year time frame. When we originally put it in there, um, we recommended going with 12 years just because our run volume is not excessive.

We do have our transports along a transports, you know, not sure exactly what the mileage is, but you know, the coast is high [clears throat] central main or mid coast. So, you know, you're probably talking 20 to 30 miles, whereas for a lot of services, that's two to six runs. So, it [clears throat] the miles are getting on there, but it uh I don't think we can wait longer, and I definitely don't think we can really switch places going back. got notes here somewhere. But going back to 2006, I think is when we we didn't do refurbish it, but we did some extensive repair work to the body and stuff. We actually had it out of service for about 3 months doing repair work. What we actually tried to put out to everybody was that we wanted it to last 7 to 10 years. Um, and nobody would warranty that now this going to make it seven or 10 years. I know my observation, what I'm seeing is an apparatus that's almost back to

that point where it was when we put it out for that work. I'm starting to see some of the well, if you don't do something on this pretty quick, it's going to come around and and you're going to be regret it. So, I really think the order is the way we need to have it. And I don't think because I actually looked at it here is from the perspective of can we push the the rescue out? Um, like I said, I want the committee depending on what happens with this to visit like the rescue purchase and start looking at that because the next thing if you go even further out, I think the next one in line for 23 or 24 is actually looking at doing something on the Quint because going back to time what we discussed with the Quint was I believe 10 years, 68 years or something like that, you know. So the Quinn is actually it's a going to be 30 years in fold in

2024. You might squeeze a little more time, but I actually think I may You're already there on page seven. Yeah. So, [cough and clears throat] and again, I I'm I I'm going to talk like I'm going to be here in 2024. I would recommend the town try to partner up with somebody else that's going to have a used ladder truck coming out much like this Quint did because I think we got an excellent bang for our buck. I think you'd find anybody that's had it utilized at their house or their neighbors would agree that it was probably one of the wiser purchases we've made in a while. But but that's coming. So I guess that's kind of what I was saying with the [clears throat] even though we look at things sometimes as short-term impacts and for right now with a capital plan [clears throat] if we change an engine well now we create more of an overlap here and the depletion of resources and so it yeah the whole thing kind of ties together

and it's made so that that the water stays nice and smooth. Well, as soon as you throw [clears throat] a rock in the middle of the pond down here, it's going to cause a ripple effect that you're going to see way across the pond on the other side. So, yeah,

I I don't know if you were hoping maybe we could move it out further. Oh, no. I was just trying to get a sense of the the timing as far as as we as we're looking at the capital plan, are we looking at an apparatus a year kind of moving forward?

Yeah. No, I think actually the next one on the schedule is the truck 24 in 2020. So, we just have to get through the the engine and the rescue and [clears throat] then Well, it it actually really what it is is if you're going to with six apparatus, if you figure it out if you and you do it even based on an average of uh 24 years. Yeah.

Um you know, six apparatus every four years you've got to be replacing an apparatus rescue and 24. [clears throat] can go longer, some of them don't. Yeah, it's an approximate. It's an estimation. That's So, I guess to move this along, we haggling over 2500 bucks. Is that where we're at or not?

Bas Well, yeah. Basically, cuz we can I mean, we can get the 425 with the three of us. I mean, I could do it. I would I'd actually like to see 45. I think if if we hang on over that, it's not going to be a huge difference there. I I'm going to suspect it's going to show up somewhere else here. I can live with that at this point.

So, right now, we'll keep it at 45 because I heard you said Yeah. I mean, I would Yeah, I can I can live with that at this point. Looking at these here, thinking what it's going to do down the road, I'm not so sure how we're going to make up some of these others. That's that's not a huge money in in the realm of the whole picture, but if you start adding all those little things up and there are people on the town floor who do you know if your taxes are up to 15 17 18 19%

they can chop a percent here off here and there you know not all done. So the only thing is this stuff down here this cap. Yeah, I don't that doesn't do anything to their taxes because it's already put aside. Right. No, I get that. The only number that actually impacts your taxes on this sheet once we get into the capital stuff is that 40,000 versus that 45,000. The rest of it is comes out of a per se savings plan.

Yeah. Net impact your finances but not on your immediate taxes [clears throat] for this year. Well, that's what this this other number was talking about. So, if if we keep that for now at 4500 uh uh sorry 45,000 4500 [laughter] totally different numbers.

I'm doing your math again. He split on different side. What are you recommending? 475. No. [laughter] Okay, we can go. Okay. 45,000. Uh, quint payment. That's already out there. And then we have um with the security cameras gone, the request is to do the paving at 53, trim and replacement at 105, and four replacement at 2,900 for a

total of 664 66,400. [clears throat] Um, expensive paving is for a small it's for a small lot. But and that's and that's what the oil prices at a historic low. Have they ever have you ever done that crack seal or anything over there like that?

Yeah, actually we have. [clears throat] I wonder how that chip seal hole cracks. Have you has that ever been thrown out there? Just curious. I'm not an expert [clears throat] on paving. I I talked to the guy briefly in the ad. Kelvin actually lined up crooked to come over and Kelvin actually when he initially asked me, he said, "Well, when was the paving done?" Which the paving was done when the station was constructed and we moved into it in 2002. So, call it 2002. I'm not sure exactly whether it was 2001 or 2002.

what everybody has told me and Calvin even when I said this he said no it should be done in 10 years you should a lot of places they just put the the rough coat and don't do the finish coat to save money and that it should be in 10 done in 10 years um they said we're

already past our threshold they have done [clears throat] the crack seal um back actually uh now I'm losing his name I can't believe that commissioner oh Shawn [clears throat] yeah Sean actually had it done for us uh two years two years ago had the crack seal done on it which it doesn't seem to be holding up too too bad. I have noticed it seems to be settling. What I've actually what they all told me is once you do the crack seal that you definitely need to follow it up within a few years and and get it straightened out or it in the end actually only makes it worse. U what they told me I I [clears throat] wish Kalvin was here to explain it better because I'm not an expert on paving. took other people's word for it, but he uh yeah, [clears throat] the guy from Krooker said pretty much the same thing that he asked me, you know, he said 10 years you should have it done. Um and I said, well, you know, he says, we

talked a little bit and then he I said, well, you know, what can you do for options as far as you know, I'm sure money is going to be an [clears throat] issue. and he well he actually my discussion with him I got the impression what he was going to recommend was really I won't say bottom end but really what we should do if we want to hold it [snorts]

and also one of the things at least my understanding from Calvin is that if if we do end up approving some kind of road construction paving project that that the more business paving that we are doing in within in the same area with Krooker that brings the costs down. [clears throat] They don't have to move their equipment around as much. So

that may be a factor as well down a little bit. That definitely could come into play. It uh cuz Calvin actually when he emailed me the information gave me his guy's cell phone. He says, you know, if you want to wheel and deal with them, you can definitely wheel and deal with them and see if you can make something work. Obviously, if the town's doing paving and we can tie it with the town's paving, I mean, you are correct. if we have them here and we keep their crews tied up for a couple of weeks or something instead of a week and a half, it [clears throat] everything becomes cheaper proportionately. Um, but for budgetary purposes, I guess I wouldn't recommend

Oh, no. Absolutely. I'm just But I would definitely in all honesty, if I can tie it to the town paving and tell Calvin that, hey, when you have them in here to do the rest of the town, I'd like to have mine done. Make sure that's one of the project.

That's great by me. Right. And if it shaves a little bit off, keeps a little bit more in the same account. It's and you have to do that [clears throat] half and half or you leave the truck somewhere else overnight. Haven't even got to the point of discussing that. I would assume

I would assume if that was a big issue that I would hope maybe we could perhaps use the public works building and storm down there. I would think so. They're going to come and store them in your driveway. [laughter] Just have to talk to my wife. She's the boss up there. don't get on a law [laughter]

very fussy about a law along the same lines the uh leadership meeting that uh between Durham Panel Freeport and the RSU that met last last week one of the things that we're looking Durham and Panel already put their paving stuff together to to see what they can deal and we're also wanting to work with Freeport because that'll add even more to the mix and so on so

right keeping As long as they can keep their their equipment within the same smaller area and not have to be trucking it around there. [laughter] What? Because you get six inches of extra painting. And is this for repainting the whole parking lot or is it supposed to be doing the entire parking lot? The guys that hope that I could add we had do have one difficult spot but I didn't it's not added on there. We have [clears throat] um backing into the fuel building. You actually end up pulling on to part of the dirt. Um, but so in all honesty, if there's a cough savings, I'd love to think that maybe I could clean that out enough so that I could actually get that fixed because you actually have to pull onto the dirt area, pull in [clears throat] and back into the the diesel, even the everything that's from the engines, the Quinn especially, you got to have that space. So yeah, [clears throat] but it is for

resurfacing. It's not for repaving. I think they talked about veing out the cracks or grinding where the cracks are and stuff. I don't know much, but I heard some I don't I'm not sure either, but I I've asked questions here and just because I'm curious sometimes. I've heard something.

I know they talked about fixing those so they weren't a continuing or reoccurring issue fixing those correctly. I know they talked about the the door and about putting insulation board or digging it out, putting insulation board and and then you know and compact and and then I think there was actually gravel over it or maybe it was just gravel underneath compacting it again. I know that's all good a good deep layer of gravel there. I do know that. So, but they talked about doing extra work there and then pouring concrete there, not paving.

That's a free port. They just did that too. According to them, most all of the uh garages, municipal garages, fire stations and stuff like that are going with that concrete pad just outside their doors and stuff. [clears throat] That guy, a number I gave you, he did that one in free, the concrete in front of that garage.

do we want to leave this request as is or um I'm thinking and um could it could change on town floor, but I mean even even though our roads need paving and things like that, so does this. And if we don't, I I'd hate to if this is just a resurface, I hate to think what a full redo is going to be if we if we wait if we wait in two, three, four more years. If they have to do a full redo,

um I'd hate to think what that's going to be. But I think it's important that we maintain what we do have because we are we are looking down the barrel at at having not done that for many many many years and and we are faced with huge costs of

I don't think it's like we're I mean we are I mean we are fully intending on putting something out there for our roads this year too. So it's not like we'd be doing this and nothing on our roads, right? No. Yeah. Leave it.

Okay, final one. Uh, purchase of the new engine package, thoughts Um, [clears throat] right. It [cough] price was put in there 474. And the reason it says not just engine, it says engine package because in all honesty, um, one of them there there are two vendors that the committee's been working with and they're actually one's the most was the most expensive and one was the least expensive and if you remember right, the least the most expensive was over 500,000. Um, but they've been working with them and that's a number we can work with either one of those vendors and make it happen. Uh, I'm actually hoping it's slightly below that, but it says package because couple of pieces. If it's the lower priced one, there is some equipment [clears throat] that we do need to replace. But if we go with a higher priced one, we probably can't replace that equipment. It'll probably just be the engine. If we go with a

lower priced one, I would recommend at least some of it go towards that equipment that we need to replace on the engine. Um, as far as the [cough and clears throat] order to get it down to that that price, there needs to be prepayment. Well, prepayment in reality can happen at the order through company financing with them and then we just transfer it to our

bank in 2017. So theoretically, you have a loan out, but you're not making a payment until you actually make a full payment at the transfer of the apparatus. But that's the only way to get that one down to that number. That's why it actually says package.

The interest would start acrewing though on it's what the interest would start acrewing on. No, the interest actually from what I understand and what I've read, we would not end up paying interest at uh on doing it that way. I need to do more research, but that still fits in that number. [clears throat] existing engine have any resale value?

The existing one actually I have it list in there for reselling it at that's at sales under 20 to make salsa should [clears throat] be on page five 2017 5000. Yep. Because if we order it even if if this gets approved the town meeting in April and we order it no matter which one. Um, and when we get into the particulars of the engine, if you guys don't mind, and Keith doesn't mind, I'd rather he actually does represent it to you. [cough] My job is the financial aspect of it, the administration aspect of it. So, the committee has actually worked very closely with the vendors and stuff, but I listed that as the resale value. Um, might be more, might be I doubt if it' be less unless we wait. If we wait too long, I do think it'd be less because then the only appeal it's going to have is to well, we sold most of our engine to which is, you know, hey, I'm going to rip that chest that fire body off there

and use the chassis or the last one actually engine 3 went to [cough] um [clears throat] they bought it down there and they really bought it for tires and steel prices is what they really bought it for. Um, [cough] be more. I don't think next year or in 17 that it would be less. Um, I would if anything anticipate it might be more than that if we could go to like that Brinley Mountain and find a buyer for it, somebody that wanted to do some work to it and invest in it. going back in time, it uh I doubt if they'd refurbish it because going back in time, and I think I have that in my pile somewhere, but I think Larry Dingy gave us a ballpark estimate of $294,000 to refurbish that. So, no matter how cheap I bought it, I'd never bought it buy it for that price with the expectations that I was going to refurbish it. Yeah. Yeah. So that

[clears throat] um and then like I said, bottom line is none of that. This is really just looking for the authorization to finish working with the vendors. We can finish working with the vendors, but to really come up with a package so that we can actually make a purchase. Delivery would be in 17 probably if we it's about a year for delivery time. So that's actually when the first payment would actually probably not be due until town after town meeting in 2017. Uh actually financing you might want to get estimates and stuff but financing would actually not [clears throat] need to be secured until 2017 when the loan was transferred from

the company to the town. other case, there'd be no wrong transfer. Yeah. So ultimately, the town people got to decide whether they want to buy this or not. We're just deciding to put it on the warrant or not. Right. Right. We could Yeah, we could put it on the warrant. Let them [clears throat] decide.

Whether we take a stance on um tonight as far as shooting for it or not, that's up to majority. I guess I think we still put it on the warrant. Let Bill explain it all to them and see what they want to do. We don't where we aren't actually authorizing the loan on it. Well,

yeah, we're not actually authorizing the ultimately there would be if it my understanding is although we wouldn't have to negotiate a bond, there would still be indebtedness with the company. So, so we would need a treasurer statement with this if we if we go with the

right if we go with the that one company. I'm not sure. I'd have to research what their requirements are, but on one company they're actually there would be a loan. They'd be would be financing it through [cough] them with a full payment due in whatever on delivery in 2017, I guess, would for lack of a better way to phrase it. because if if if we go that route, we we need to make sure we had a treasurer statement with that. Um that indicates our current indebtedness and what this will do [clears throat] and you know

Yeah. And I I got to be honest, I was uncertain how to word the article. So I tried to make it Yeah. typically we don't purchase one year and then start paying the next year, do we? We often do our first payment the year we purchase or the the year we we contract.

Well, we have actually before we've secured financing. It's the one that actually got us in trouble was the tanker. The financing was supposed to be secured and it was supposed to be the bank's money and instead of utilizing the bank's money, a person at that point in time decided to utilize the town's money and save some interest money because I know that really threw me for a loop because I was in I called the bank right away and said, "Well, hey, we got to get this straightened out." only to find out. No, we don't have a nickel in it, man. You're on your own. [clears throat]

before because some of them, [clears throat] a lot of them now were actually shifting so that they want chassis payments. Um, which this one here was actually put out saying we wanted bonding. So even if we do have to make chassis payments, I don't think [clears throat] the other one I don't think required any prepayments. Did they?

I don't think if we ended up going with that, I don't think there was any requirement for prep. You could do a prepayment if you wanted to save more money, but I don't think there was a requirement for prepayment. And in all cases, we told them that they needed to provide for a bond in the purchase price, a performance bond. [clears throat] The one question that I have and and Rick is going to look into it is whether or not we are restricted at all by statute as to what our debt ratio is going to be. because we will have to show some debt on this. And if we are also talking about road work and purchasing of a plow truck and we've just got to see what that treasures report is going to look like is regardless of of where the funds, you know, the funds are coming out of the capital account and public works capital account and everybody's got their their pots of money set aside to pay for it.

But we have to look at what our overall town indebtedness is to make sure that we're not right crossing any line. [clears throat] I don't know how the bonds and and that works. I don't know if a loan separate for this is in the best interest or if things were lumped together if that's the best interest for the community. That that's on my right.

That's your forte, I'm assuming. That would be interesting. I had I [laughter] don't know how this article needs to be worded. That's why I put it in there very generically with my explanation because I don't know how it need to be worded to accomplish,

right? But the intent would be to just seek the authorization to make the purchase perhaps if necessary to reduce the price to secure the financing through the company, the manufacturer. It's actually an affiliate organization, but through the manufacturer if it reduced the price. Uh but that the town would be spending no money on payments until 2017, more than likely June or later.

That's why I'd say we That's my thought sticking it on the warrant. Maybe we don't necessarily make a recommendation now. And I know this isn't going to affect taxes this year, but it is going to start if we if we take out a bond, our bond's going to be huge for how many of years we do, it is going to affect the taxes.

We do need to know after that, the next year whether there's a Yeah, she said whether there's a debt limit. Yeah, I emailed the auditor to see if they know. And because I think I'm hope maybe the plow truck we might not have to do any debt with it, but with the roads we'll probably have to do a bond. Um, and we've already we still have the station bond even though that rolls off after the end of this year. Um,

we just want to make sure we're not running a foul of any [cough and clears throat] accounting auditing. But yeah, and if you can also check into how we need to word this question with the with the because we've got two different options here. Um I guess we need to word it with the

with the I I'm trying to think how to say it. the mo the most restrictive or the most agreement with with the company this year we need to make sure we word it correctly for that. In all reality, if we even if we did it on a local end, most of the time the payments have actually been we borrow the for the other apparatus. We borrow say I use tonight, we borrow February of 2016. Our first payment usually is not due until February of 2017 unless we specifically request it to be structured differently. It's usually a year out before we make our payment. So in all honesty, if it creates a nightmare

doing that piece of it, if memory serves me right, the savings wasn't really financing with that company. It was rather the fact of the full prepayment on the purchase. So in all honesty, we could probably still look at local locally financing it rather than if it creates a nightmare to do the hey, let's finance here and then move it here at this date in time. That creates a nightmare that aspect of it.

I was hoping I could bow to somebody that had more expertise with that. [laughter] Well, I am interested in in your other idea as far as whether or not there are any cost savings if we do decide to move forward to to and the town approves bonding several different things. Is there a cost saving in doing it in a single bond? Saving on bond council, saving on on all of those things. So that's some certainly something worth exploring. Any place that we can

trim costs, but if if you're doing different terms on it would right. I I just don't know what the Okay, so for now we'll leave this here. Try to get correct wording. Um and the fire budget unless you have something else. No, no, [laughter] no. And I know it looks very scary, but actually if you really look at it, our overall increase to the tax base or to the the tax increases is

try our best to keep it in a minute. I know the numbers add up and look like they're scary, but a lot of them are coming out of per se savings plans and stuff like that. Um, was there any desire to do anything more tonight or do we going to leave the rest of it for tomorrow night?

Is there any what do we have to to still discuss recreation and we still have to discuss administration salary lines? You want to wait till there's a full board here to do that? That's fine with me. Um, was there any other lines that we needed to look at that you again

parks and recreation? We took care of that. No. Uh, we still have to look at the request from the Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. For the Y, we had a bunch of questions for the various people and I know that that we got an answer.

The booster got, but I don't know if any of the other groups have provided any answers. All right. I mean, we we can wait till tomorrow to see if we get any more answers on those. Okay. have employees, but they're different. So

Oh, do I have a motion? This was my packet. Oh, see I got page four there. There's a motion to adjurnn in a second. All second. All right.