TranscriptSelect Board Budget Workshop ~ January 5, 2017

now, I guess, because it wasn't that bad last time I called. Take take one H pass. Yeah, I'd like to butcher pigs myself if I can do it. Mark really wanted to do one of ours this year himself, but he and we tried to get our nephew, our 28-year-old nephew, to come down and do it with him because it's a big animal to do.

You know, you got to hoist it and everything else to do by yourself, but nobody I wanted to build a smokehouse. Everybody that he has everybody he has bitched the topic with has sort of looked at him like he's nuts. I've got this slope at the back of my house built up and it kind of goes down like like this almost immediately. You know, I was thinking dig that in so it's square

and I wanted to build a cinder block foundation and uh build a smokehouse on it. because none of them, especially since she's not going to be here like um West Gardener and those places, they don't actually when you get smoked.

No, it's all it's it's chemical. It's just smoke or whatever. None of it is actually right. That's why I'd like to do an actual smoke house. Um some of the flam's brother uh Mark used to have a smokehouse down there on Mil Pond Road.

Y and uh he he the one I wanted to build was along the same lines. We've done just like bacon in some friends of ours do it quite frequently. They'll do it in just in like a a like a Weber kettle style Weber grill. Yep. If you're not doing that much

and you can do bacon or a half a ham or I was thinking like a I was going to build a 4x4 foundation out of cinder block with one, you know, spot for a stove pipe in there. And then I wanted to build like a lane with a barrel stove and a couple different lengths of pipe so I could do cold smoking and hot smoking, you know, and move it [cough] as [clears throat] needed to. So, and then uh and then yeah, right level with my lawn would have been like the shed that you open and uh it's so easy to build. Like one guy saw took a bunch of 2x4s and drilled holes in them and then sliced them in half and then stuck those on the walls so you had a spot to put your dowels and you had racks and everything.

Exactly. What's the difference between firefighters paid and firefighters volunteer? They both cost money. Right. [clears throat] Right. No, there is no it's a code. Oh, that's what I meant. That's that's all I was. It's a code and the uh the the code is the the factor is actually the same on them.

I know the fact that they call it volunteer fire per hour. It's an old adage. That's why this is a code for fall. Nobody does anything anymore. It's a pot time fire. No. Exactly. Nobody does anything. If you read the old comprehensive plan,

I don't know though, it seems to have been predicated on this notion of like building community and volunteerism and what have you and it just it doesn't really happen anymore. The days of the volunteer stuff is they've gone by, but there are still people that do volunteer. There's no doubt. But they are far and few between. It's a usually special people that do it.

I was going to say most of them are 90 years old, you know. It's like the rocks when we have some of our suppers, a lot of guys volunteer their time. Right. The problem with it is it's always the same ones and eventually they get burn out and when they stop if somebody don't step up to the plate.

Are we ready? I am. We are ready. Okay. I'll call call this meeting to order. Um this is actually just for a budget workshop and so we'll hand it to me. Okay. Well, I was just about to figure out the percentage increase in health insurance, but I guess I won't get there yet.

Should we shut those doors? No. Okay. leave the doors open. It's a public meeting. Trying to distract me, you know? I mean, we're on TV, are we? No. We're being recorded, but we're not actually on TV unless you guys want.

All right. That's fine. Okay. I'll be there another half hour anyway. All right. So, you got lots of pieces of paper here, and I apologize for not having your notebooks ready yet. Um, it's been a long week already. Um, I have several of those. I don't know if I It was

That's okay. So, the first one, the first important one is the long one. Oh, I got solid id here. A couple of them. This one here. The long one. Yes. And there's another long one that goes with it. The small long one because I didn't do the assessing correctly.

[clears throat] So this talks about what we actually spent last year. Um and we did not overspend any any um department. We did overspend some budget line items. Um which you can look through here. Supplies. We overspent. A lot of that is copies.

Um what's that? Electricity. We overspent. No. 17. What's that? Oh, generator repair. We over spent. We had some issues with our generator this year. Um, so that was office. That was uh fixed. Let's see what other big ones we had. There's the

abatements. Yeah, that's not overspent though cuz that is going to go away in my audit. Yeah. the grants goes away in my audit. Those have all been spent. Um, Eureka maintenance and repairs went a little over. They had some issues with some of their stuff over there, too. Uh, workers, we knew that was going to be over spent. I'm up to fire now. Chief's probably going to have to tell you why some of these things were overspent. When he comes in, he says he's going to be finished um with his budget by next Tuesday, right? Equipment maintenance I would imagine is probably that electrical harness.

Yeah. Um so public works workers comp. We knew about [cough] communications. I think that that has to No, that doesn't have to do with that. He often would say anyway that I'm not held to each line. I'm held to the bottom line. So

yes. Um the one thing that he did say because we have to explain certain things to the auditors. They pick certain lines that are either well over spent or well underspent and we [clears throat] have to explain it to them and two of the lines that they picked out were paving um cuz that was underspent and then um the surface

right treatment and that we know is because um Calvin chose to resurface some stuff instead of paving it and he kind of gave the same explanation was that you know that's I got so much money to work with and that's what I did.

Yeah. I did have a question with um in the parks and recreation there are a couple numbers that are negative numbers versus being in red. Like I know where things are over spent they're in red and they're in parenthesis but underneath both of those red numbers and the flags are in the subtotal there are negative black negative numbers. Okay. Wait a second to me.

I'm not sure. I'm not seeing where you're line. Which page? 84. Yeah. Uh, department. There isn't. It's it's line or count line 34, electricity, flags, and upkeep for War Memorial Park. Okay. And then in the subtotal line for June and again in November, there are these negative expenses. negative expense, which is a positive.

Um, so somehow we got a a credit or something in that maybe the fundraising or Yes. So, so what ended up happening this year was they actually fundraised more than they spent. Um, and so at the end of the year, I moved that money into a general ledger account so that next year they can use I mean because we can't we can't take their money. Okay. [laughter] Um, so that's why some of those are are negative numbers.

Okay. That it was just mostly an accounting question really for No. Oh, that's okay. I I had question. You're you're talking about under November the negative 6330 black. So, and in June there was a -26270, right? So, so in the war memorial park, we actually took in more money than we spent

and and the reason because of the fundraising there the uh the cells on those are formatted differently. So the um right the the 3370 is formatted to go red with parentheses for negative and the other one's formatted to just do a negative in front of it for Yeah.

But it's actually a positive. It's a positive expense. So it's it's a it's a negative expense which makes it in it's it's basically income, right? We didn't spend it. That's what [clears throat] makes it income. Well, we didn't it's actually it's not only we didn't spend it.

We we took it in and it was posted to this account rather than posted to an income account. It was posted to to here, right? Because theoretically that we had budgeted some money for the war memorial park project that Hunter was working on and he was supposed to do some fundraising. He did more fundraising than he actually spent.

So that's why that's there. I'm just trying to keep my negatives and my positives when we're we're positively ahead and it's a negative number. I'm just trying to keep all that straight. Yeah. So another good example of this is under public works for April. If you if you look at the road commissioner salary and workers comp, uh we've got some negative numbers in there. uh or we've got the red

and and so on. And I and I bet you that's because what we took in from Panel exceeded what we paid out in salary during that month. So they probably paid us for two or three months at that point. Those are those those reds that are in parenthesis those are actually negative.

Those are negatives. Yeah. Those are negative expenses, right? Yeah. So if you look at the month before the 430192 we spent that much then then for April the 21510 is we took in we credited to that account $21510 more than we paid out in that account. So,

and and I had talked to the auditors about this too because um the reason I do it this way is because I don't want our budget to look inflated. So, in order for our budget to not look inflated um we have to use the panel payments as a direct

right um rec it's a it's a reimbursement. Yes. It's a reimbursement and for that month they reimbursed us more than we spent right because they were paying for several months of it. So Calvin has asked and and uh Jen and I, Jen's my auditor, have agreed that the reimbursement for the truck expense, he would prefer that in a revenue cuz technically some of its depreciation. So technically you could make it a revenue and so um he would like it moved from the expense of maintenance uh to a revenue because that throws off his maintenance line. Um so we're going to move that. It It's like $3,000. It's like 3,300 a year. So,

and he's not coming in tonight. Correct, Calvin? No. Okay. We We don't have anything from from No, I was just looking at the winter equipment maintenance line being over spent by almost $11,000. Yeah, he did. Uh I understand that the maintenance on the trucks had not I understand that there were issues as to getting them inspected and what have you. That's just a big

Yes. He that was another one. This was also one of we were still not working off full year numbers. Right. Right. And so now we may have a better idea now that we've got this out there. We may cuz there are a lot of lines that are well under spent too.

Oh absolutely. I mean his total budget is well this is through November 30th right? No this is through December but that's not the right number and I don't know why. Yeah because you said it was 130 something. Yeah, it's 139, I believe, is what it was. And I'm trying to figure out why that's so off. Yeah. Hey. Well, again, because I say this every year, I really think we need to look at going to a townwide capital plan, capital fund, and and really plan

townwide projects instead of all these siloed capital accounts. We've only got two, but there we'll have a third. If we do, I mean, we've got the only The only issue I The only issue I have with the I I like the idea, but how do we transition? Because the fire department has $75,000 set aside already. And the the the issue that how do we transition? Because it's not fair to pull that and throw it into

But it's still taxpayers money that would still be used for other tax. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. this it's already that's been specifically designated to that particular um I mean they're still going to have the use of

it's it's it's it becomes it actually becomes harder on the department heads to come up with a 10-year plan when you do that because now you're working with unknowns really now you're you're working with one pool and you want to put this much money into it and take this much money out of it But if that it I mean

I looking at it or at least a townwide capital plan so that we have some sense of where the big hit expenditures are coming. You know, I know that the chief wants another truck and Calvin is planning more bond road things and and I think if we could sort of map out big expenses on a townwide basis as opposed to a departmentwide basis, there there's a benefit for the

if you've got it by departmentwide, you've got it by townwide. If if Calvin presents this is my and and chief presents this is my you've got it. We one we have been lax on doing anything for absolutely I was thinking about looking at it in terms of planning so that you aren't essentially pitting department heads against each other on town floor of we can either do this one or this one and then everybody sort of advocating for their thing as opposed to having a broader calendar of okay we're going to do this this year we're going to do this for the fire department next year we're going to do this for the town office the following year

and and having a more comprehensive plan. The thing is, I don't see that we're going to be doing we're going to need to do stuff for the roads every year. We're going to need to do stuff for the fire department almost every year. The town office, the the the administrative part, not quite so much. However, this roof is 30 years old. And

we've gotten a a estimate on the roof and some of the other things that we're working on getting estimates on. And I I definitely think I mean we need to we need to get into every I mean get into a plan for everything and I I wouldn't mind having a single

uh a single one but I can actually I'd almost guess that the department heads won't like that because I mean the the the well take the fire department for example. they've been they've been working hard on this for um 15 15 years and have worked hard to put

together the plan and to and and how it and and so on and but I think that's exactly the point that I'm trying to make is that I don't think it should be so territorial from department to department mine mine my plan my money and then public works mine mine mine mine you know I'm I'm looking at a broader the town needs all of these things how do fit all the jigsaw puzzle pieces together so that

it's it's how do you transition that it's it's absolutely unfair to pull this and and actually illegal to pull this money from I'm not talking about pulling it I'm talking about a plan though a comprehensive townwide plan

what you do is you set up a at some point whenever the decision is made at some point you set up a whole new umbrella account and when the other accounts have depleted with what they are then that's use or even people keeping their accounts, but even just a a broader

capital needs of the town are so that the town's people have a sense of of what's coming as opposed to kind of as I see it sort of pitting department heads against each other on town floor, you know, is it my firetruck this year or is it my new road or is it to to let people really kind of look at

that's going to happen every any time anyway because when you go to spend whether you're coming from one account or six accounts you've got to get the vote of the town to spend on that. Absolutely. So it's always it's it's always going to pit. They're they're always going to be well um

well no but what I was talking about is it was a plan that fits different people different departments interests in at different points over time rather than trying to rather than having people fight it out each year for whatever their big project is.

I I see both sides of that. I don't know. I don't know how you could it I don't I don't think there's any way to ever separate that because it it's going to be it it comes down to the priorities of the town that particular year who shows up and

the tough part of that is doing it the other way. It's the way we're doing it now is then people ain't going to get a realistic view or they may have a less opportunity to have a realistic view of that department's budget and that will throw it up in the mix too. But I mean I think we've already start so I mean with the with what we've put out there last year for for roads we already have have an idea now of what what we're looking at in cost for roads in over the next I mean and it's daunting

and we already have an idea of what costs for the fire station are going to be um in today's dollars out about 10 to 15 years. Um, and that's quite high. Um, we don't yet have an idea of what what we're looking at here. I mean, cuz I know that I know the roof and I'm sure there's other things, but

the heating system, system. Um, I mean so then you have the other the other thing is you you actually have like the fire department brings in 50,000 plus or minus in revenue every year from transports. Um, does that now go into the townwide capital fund? Should I mean realistic really realistically that should go that I mean it would make sense.

Well I I and that on that particular line item I actually disagree with you wholeheartedly because I see every year in the budget a line item where we pay for those transports and then when they get reimbursed by the insurance company I think that should offset what we we are paying out for those transports and it doesn't. It goes into their trust account. So

yeah, but that's I mean the transports that's a minor I mean that's always a line item in the budget is is intercepts and then that money comes in and it doesn't offset. I mean that that could be one and that's a very small portion of what we bring in. That's maybe maybe 3 4% of what we bring in. I think the intercepts

I'm just saying we pay for them. The town pays for them every year. They're a line item in the budget and and we pay brought in $72,000 this year. And when those and that money doesn't the the revenues don't offset the the expenses on that. They

and as it was explained to me last year, but they go into the trust account and we just have to pay we'd have to have some other appropriation for the trust account. And and I I get that. Yeah. It kind of is almost like if we

we spent we spent 49 $4,900 in intercepts. That's that's really really minor compared to what's brought in. Now, we could we could ask for a vote to adjust, you know, adjust that so that um we so that that that pays for itself, but

but it's but it isn't going to I mean, it's going to not going to change it. I mean, we talked about it last year. I I understand that. And I think one thing we and one of the issues is trying to find people who are willing is you know maybe we look at a capital committee

that so that and then the department heads can go to them say this is what we and and so on right taking the things that they've already done. I'm not saying that to scrap anything that anybody's done. I'm saying to fit it all into one townwide plan. I I did have the opportunity this year to go to different towns in the area and go to their town meetings and see and I went and they all have a a

sort of townwide capital vision where each department has taken their needs and they fit it all in. I think we're about 3 to four years away from that. Y uh that's because they've been they've done this for a long time. We are just starting to do this for roads. We haven't even touched it for for for the the actual

Oh, I trust I don't expect us doesn't have any debt. They don't have any bonds. They don't have any debt. North. Oh, but um stunned at their blue. I was like looking at [laughter] their report going you're buying a new truck. Where's the bond payment?

North. And that's that's actually that was that was and he gets thwarted at it every year. But that's why the chief wants to put more towards that so that you get ahead of it and eventually you're going to have enough money in there to pay, you know, you you could have enough money in there to pay for stuff without bonds and then you start saving interest, but you almost have to double up on it for several years ahead of time and and the town town's not ready to do that. And um yeah, it would be great if you could save save the interest on bonds,

right? But we're getting such a low rate that it's Yeah, it's very inexpensive right now. Um, but I I think that's something that needs to be in looked at and and and you actually need a plan before you can come up with a plan because um we are

we started it disjointed and to to be able to get it to come together and to and to have the department heads to agree on that because I can I and chief will not want to do that. So you say that we're pitting we're pitting one against the other but by if we do this we're doing it again.

We're still p and um and the other thing you you you might reduce the the number of articles on the town warrant. But when you come to the town and you want to put $250,000 aside for all your capital needs in a year and so on,

that's a lot harder to pass than $50,000 for one department. And because they look at the big number, it's it's a even right. I mean, I was just thinking about in terms of of transparency or or planning for the the town to kind of see looking forward at the big picture of what our capital needs are as the for a town as a whole, not just

but I I think it's I think you need a you really do need a capital committee to to put that together. Oh, yeah. I don't have that. I don't know if we've got anybody that can that I mean, we can put out feelers. we can, you know, this budget year we can although we've got the uh the uh

comprehensive plan just it's I think it would be useful for people to be able to kind of get a big picture. that could be fine. [laughter] That could be comprehensive plan. Actually, when actually that is part of the comprehens

the long-term capital goals. Yeah. Okay. Does anybody have any more questions about what we spent last year? I will be updating this and correcting anything that gets changed because of our audit. Okay. So, the next one I want to look at is our workers compensation figures [cough] for 2017. It's the black and white one that I just kind of handed you guys.

Oh, the black and white one. Yeah. Well, most of them have some kind of color on it, but the black and white one doesn't have any color on it. Yeah, it's small. Small extrapolation of 2017. So I I I'm keep [clears throat] playing with this. So if you look over to the right, this is the important part, the total by department, administration, public works, fire, animal control, and telecommunications. So this year, you'll notice I also split out animal control and telecommunications to put under their budgets for an expense, which isn't a lot of money, but it makes me feel better. Um, and then the the gray part is is what we're actually going to be spending this year. And the reason it's a little bit less than what we're going to be build is because this year I actually incorporated the figures that the amount that Pound is going to be paying us. Last year I didn't do that. I just paid the whole put the whole thing

in the budget. I didn't take that out. So So that's what we're looking at. 51 grand for workers comp. Yeah. And that's after the the reimbursement from panel for Right. And well, we've had accidents in the two major departments.

Yeah. We had another accident come on to our our experience mod this year. So, what happened? I heard a truck went off the road and uh they had a difficult time pulling it out. Well, that that has nothing to do with workers comp. No.

Yeah, that's possible. Well, I I know that that they had a breakdown. I mean, that happens. Yeah, there's been a couple. But yeah, that doesn't affect the workers or plow truck. There's a plow truck off the road in somebody's yard and they needed the other one to try to pull it out. That's what I saw on Facebook. They said it's right on my front lawn right now.

That happens. It's very icy. That happens. And it's not it's it has nothing to do with this. No, I don't. But so, okay. So, what what did we spend this year? Do do we know? I mean, I'm just kind of wondering how much I want to say it was in the 40s.

Okay. But we also got a um a dividend this year, so that made our hit not quite too bad. 2,200 for me. Let's see here. What's the difference between the public line public works line of 30,71962 you have as for Calvin winter and summer

versus this that's Calvin's base pay oh okay Durham's portion of his base pay right Durham's portion of his base pay based on a a rate of 2% race, but uh that's what I based my figures on and figuring out what our our cost for him would be and then what portion the 1603 is pound's portion of the

of that. So, oh you you sidetracked me 20,000 and then whatever uh public works was Yeah, I mean you can as if you had that information when we get to the administration budget that's or to the to the budget that's fine too.

Okay. cuz you've got to look through a whole bunch to figure it out. Okay, I will write myself a little note. What was it last year? That's huge though. [cough] I mean, that's a big jump. Grant of our um payroll. If you look if you look at what we have there, it's one 12th of our payroll.

So, let's go on to animal control. Take a quick look at animal control. don't know any more information. He never got back. No. And he never submitted mileage before the end of the year. Nope. I haven't heard a word. So, anyways, um, so the salary I bumped up. Um, and the reason I bumped it up was because I took out mileage when we had redone the um the description of the job. We had taken out the mileage. So to cover the the mileage without actually asking them for mileage, I bumped it up. Um, so FICA and Medicare and workers comp all um go towards that 6,000. Um, you know, there was there was we had budgeted supplies last year and a lot of that supply money was supposed to go towards rabies shots, but that never happened. Um, and so this year I I just put 300 in for um a new cage and a

couple of possible other supplies that we might need this year. I don't know if you guys want to contemplate putting money in for more training. Um, there's supposed to be eight hours of training per year. So, I put in $100 for one training class. Um, but I don't know what's going to happen this year. So, we need to think about that. Um, and then the Coastal Humane Society stayed the same as last year.

Okay. Um, yeah. What's been the feedback? I mean, you know, in the grand scheme of things, we're not saving tons of money by going about it this way. Um, have and I know he's been non-communicative. Has, but are people happy with the,

you know, has there been any feedback of this method versus when we There's been a couple of minor issues where he hasn't gotten back to somebody. Um, but that's recent like in the last month. Lizzie maybe getting sick of us harping on him for more, but it's like it doesn't matter. I mean, we we need let's [clears throat] hold on.

I I suspect that this is an executive session discussion. You're right. I just was trying, you know, we we we left one system of using Lisbon PD to hire our own. Now that we've had that in place for a year, I just was curious if there had been without getting into those kinds of specifics, but

you say it's not much, but I there had been a I think it's probably feedback 2 to 3 grand. 2 to 3,000. Yeah, cuz Yeah. Oh, that's right. We've got all the other stuff back that we're saving. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was more about responsiveness though and availability.

Well, that's what I was trying to figure out is it is what the feedback from No, no, no, no, no. This wasn't go us doing what we did was had absolutely nothing to do with that. It was all about the money. That's not my recollection.

Oh, no. It was all about the money. It was people I was one of the people screaming about the lack of availability. It was about the money though when it came. It was almost all every time I've called the guy over in Lisbon at least at least three times. I I've never I've never had anything from

the This was brought I mean for the for the most part this was about the [clears throat] Yeah. I just was curious if there had been sort of a in in general terms a difference in in responsiveness or people back or so I mean

I mean you hear things I mean I I've I've heard things like like there was an issue with a goat and that he helped somebody build you know a fence to keep the goat out of the neighbor's yard. So I've heard of him going kind of above and beyond what's necessary but I've also heard of him not responding. So you know I really bit of both

without some sort of counting I don't right. So no but not a huge shift or swing from the previous it has not been a huge swifter shift nonrespondent could have been such as I'm just okay anyway next five minutes. So next is the cemeteries.

where we're going. [laughter] That's the one we have next. uh cemeteries is not a big jump. Um they asked for a little extra money in their equipment and materials um for some minor minor repairs and tree removal. Um so that bumped it up by $350.

in the mowing contract for? They do it on a year-to-year basis as far as I know. All right. I it seems like they are very slow on getting on to mowing be like they're doing it the Memorial Day weekend and it should be done prior to so I mean

there's any projects that they need Nope. I asked Joe. Okay. I I still think that they need to look at this cemetery on Brickyard Hill Road. the uh retaining wall. It's in very bad shape. I don't know. Uh is it Yank? Yeah. Yankee Art works with you. Is that

Yeah. Yep. Okay. All right. Conservation has not changed. Yep. At all. It's the same as last time. uh Eureka Community Center. Uh propane. I think that that will cover us. Um and then they had asked for some extra money for repairs this year. Um but they really

balance each other out. Mhm. So, it's actually a decrease of the 533. And they're not going to do any um big projects this year either. Um they're waiting for for their capital account to grow a little more. because it seems like they have been renting it more.

No, I I haven't I don't have the fig. Well, I do have the figures, but no, that's fine. Not here. General assistance. general assistance. I figure we just leave it at the 3,000. We didn't have any issues with it this year.

Well, yeah, it was really low. Uh like $400 $500 total spent. Yeah. 400 and something like that. I think we I think there was a one at the end of this year. So, I think I went went up to 500. assistance. Uh solid waste, you have two in front of you. And the reason you have two is because one is with Pine Tree and one is with Ty Waste. Um just so that you can see the difference in in the overall budget. Um and that's just for this year and the the change would only um account

for half of the year and actually not even half a year five months because I thought there was like a difference of 30 grand here. No no there is over the life of the three years over the three years. It was like 12. Okay. Right. It was like 12,000 for the first year. Uh,

right. But it's it's only accounts for five months. This is five months. It's only five months this year. The rest of it's on pine tree. So it would increase next year. The the difference with the if you want me to. And if you want me to do it out for like the next couple years, I can do that.

No, no, that's fine. Yep. I just Or would certainly when we meet with the budget committee. Yeah. I was going to say we definitely want it for that cuz they're going to So what are just just out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on this as far as how are you leaning?

I'm leaning where we are. You know, that's this it's it's it's just a scary risk to think about. I mean, he seemed like a stand-up guy, but I mean, I did have the opportunity, just unrelated, it I crossed paths with one of the people he listed as a reference, the head of the Lewon Auburn Landlords Association and I met her on a different matter and I was like, "Oh, well, I'm talking to you." And they've been really happy with with Ty. They had nothing but good things to say.

That's that's not curbside, though. That's more go uh probably I think it's probably scheduled pickups at each you know. I was a little disgusted by the way the two of the you know from Pine Tree you know it's like he stood there and talked about I can I can I can and they and they he never he never said anything negative about Pine Tree and all they did was sit there and we don't think he can do it. He's not comparing apples to apples and

I didn't care I didn't care for their tone. That may be the case, but I mean actually that that's where so I'm leaning to putting both out to the voters. Yeah. To give them the option, but as far as recommendation, I think I would lean towards Pine Tree because they they have given us very good service and I

I would like to see I think we will take a I think we'll take a big step backwards. Um especially on bulky waste day. That was that's one of my big my big concerns is I'd like to see drivers not pulled over on plumber mill napping

on Friday mornings. That would be that would be my request. What time? Um midm morning they usually I think they've done like whatever section and then they're ahead. I' I've seen it enough times. What? What does it matter? What does it matter? We pay a contract price. Now, you can report that to Pineree if you think it's an if it's an issue, but we're not we're not paying them directly.

Well, which is what I've said to the taxpayers that have commented on it to me is we pay them a flat rate. Whether I I didn't know if it was cuz I know I've seen in other towns like before 7:00 there's a start time. So, the the truck is waiting sitting on the side of the road waiting to start time or something like that.

Actually, that's mandated break. They do. There are mandated brakes. So, I'd like to see them step up with the automated pickup like they had talked about. And the way they originally proposed it, it sounded like they could save almost what we were taking in in trash tags. And I don't think people need to pay extra trash tags. I think we pay enough in taxes.

I could get my trash picked up every week without having to pay extra. The trash tags, I think, have gone a long way in increasing the uh recycling. But if if so would if you have a bin for recycling and a bin for trash and you can only put recycling in this one, that goes a long way, too.

And it's a lot bigger than the bin we currently use. That was my concern about Ty is that I did not feel like I left that meeting with a straight answer about single streaming. He was actually supposed to get back to us with a list of what

if it all has to be sorted and and in different bins and what have you. I think that that's No, we we're definitely not going to go away from single stream. I I I don't I mean that that was there were several things that increased it. Number one, the trash tags that absolutely increased the recycling. Number two, single sort that that increased it. Again,

I would say it has more to do with the single stream. And and again, if they had the the the two separate bins, you can't throw trash in this. people are going to throw their recycling in there. I think that the silver bullets is what turned people off from recycling when you had to come down here and sort it all out and throw it in this and throw it in that and you know that that's what people they weren't going to bother with it. You know,

that did too. But just look at how much you're protesting this the cost of the tags. You don't [clears throat] want to buy the tags, right? But the silver stream the single stream I think would be is an issue that I I think that needs to be resolved by Ty. didn't he sort of hedged on that and I got the impression that he was talking about sorting and I think that will

this this has been dramatically reduce and I honestly don't think the from everything I've heard around town the sentiment hasn't been hasn't changed this has been a very strong feeling in the town that we do the tags they started with 52 back in the 90s and they were very adamant to go to 26 I think there was an effort to try to increase it to 52 And it's they were very adamant that this is what they want.

Automated pickup. You can only fit so much trash in this barrel. You're still going to have to throw your recycling in this barrel. Those barrels are huge. They're the same size that I use in my in my house right now. I can fit I can fit two trash bags in.

They're like 40 40 to 45 gallon barrel. Ones that we have. That's [laughter] what I have at home. I can fit two trash bags in it. I can fit two trash bags in it. It's just like one of the ones out there. Yeah, but I mean they're weak.

What about the weight? Part of it's the weight cuz that we get char I'm sure it's over 25 lbs, but it's in the bucket just like it shows. So, you know, they should reject it. Well, I mean it's if it's over 20 I mean that's it's kind of subjective. You have to weigh every day. I mean

I don't think they I don't think they complain until it gets 40. I recycle everything I can. You know, I I was really diaper years, too. Well, there's that, too. Yeah. I was really impressed with Ty and I and I really at some point would like to give him the opportunity, but

not having the equipment to do the the bulky waste thing and looking at buying a pack of them you don't have right now to try to take care of the town. All that scares me because we we tried to go with a less expensive on the mowing. Granted, the numbers are way apart, but and and give somebody a chance too where

only a threemon lead time, right? And if his packer went down, he was going to come in with his pickups and stuff and now you got all this slew [clears throat] going on the roadside and stuff like that actually get the trash picked up anyway. I I I firmly believe he's a hardworking guy. I have no doubt that he would do that. But

we can't take the or the chance to have the town be in a pickle like that because it's got to come. I would very much like to see the um pine tree sharpen their pencil a little bit 2 and a half% or whatever it is every year. There's no math to that. There's just that's just how

and I thought about that. Do you want me to do the bank run tonight? Yeah, if you could that would be awesome. Thank you, Shannon. And I thought about that and what what I looked back on when I was thinking about that was our power contract. When we started doing all the research back in the day on on the numbers to see what the cost was, we figured out that it was actually roughly about a 5% increase each year. So, not to defend them because I agree with you. I think they should sharpen the pencil a little better, but you got to have some number. And

that's the number they come up with is 4%. We we forget we forget though the last contract they came back to us they stepped back right they went backwards and so on and costs increase I mean salaries go up workers go up carb goes up cost of trash trucks go up

well in their industry too has a high level tipping fees because we're not pay we're paying the tipping fees indirectly through them um and I wasn't real happy with and I would have to agree with Josh a little bit with some of the comments as far as you know when You start talking about, well, our guys have to have this tested and they have to have this. They have to. I'm pretty sure that Ty knows if he's driving them kind of trucks, his guys have to have

Right. They were implying that he was not following the law and that kind of I was offended by that. Yeah, I didn't pick it up on that as uh them saying that as much as um them putting out and I don't I don't think they needed to do that particular thing, but putting out to you understand that these are things that you've got to do. Um I was fine with the things about um them ask you know does he have enough equipment to do this? I mean cuz cuz we have

and and it's it's their job to sell. I mean I was you can sell yourself without knocking the other guy. You know what I mean? He never said one negative thing about what what is what is their thing to sell? Their thing to sell is take a look at what we've got. You you got really good service right now. What are you going to get with this? Because with this unknown it's

they could have just said, you know, we we know the town. We know the roads. We've had a history of great service and they could have left it there. I thought they were patronizing in rude as if he didn't know what he was doing.

They're selling. They sell themselves. You know what I mean? They don't need to. And I think that and and maybe not in the so far future, maybe before this next contract even comes up. I think at least from my gut feeling the way Ty was presenting and what he was doing, what he showed us that he has been doing, I think he's going to grow quite a bit and be a lot bigger, be a lot better competition. That's what I I I I mean he

I think that's down the road. That's one of the I think he needs to have that first truck before we can and he needs I would like you know if he picks up three or four trailer parks or you know does does a a weekly doortodoor pickup and so on. So he can say he can come and say yes I do doortodoor pickup on a weekly basis this many households it takes and it takes me this much time with this with this equipment. I mean that I I I I really think we

although I think ultimately I agree with you that the price differential between the two is so large that I think allowing people to debate it on town floor and then they they then they take some some ownership of what they get

if if they're if they're okay with taking a step back in service. I mean then fine let's I don't want to sort my recycling. No, no. Well, he said I mean that actually was part of the contract, wasn't it? That was single.

I think it is. Yeah. And um and he was supposed I don't know if you want Well, actually, it's should be on him. He was supposed to get back with us with a list of what his right the company that he goes to will take. Right. Because I know that Cassella was implying that whatever he was talking about was not single sort that it was they kept saying that it was having to be sorted and and what have you. He originally presented it when he presented to us as single sort, but when Cassella made their presentation, they made it very clear that whatever facility he was talking about working with was not a single sort facility.

but I [clears throat] that's where I'm leaning. I'm leaning to stay where we are for those reasons. But I do I do think he'll be competition in the near future. And at that I mean invite I mean I invite them both to be at the town meeting because there'll be questions and

um it's actually quite possible if Pineree re acts the same way people could get turned off. And so [cough] I I think Pine Tree was probably surprised this year cuz it's been it's been two cycles without any competition and and the cycle before the competition was not I don't think was not that great. Competition before

um Almighty I think such a big gap with the Almighty one or No, with this time around that, you know, I think they had their backup. They were a little defensive. Yeah. Yeah. That's, you know, they they absolutely were defensive, but it's like, yeah, I I didn't care for them.

Great. I mean, we did a dumpster this fall from them and they have phenomenal customer service. They are so pleasant to work with and so on top of it. Yep. Yeah. They're actually almost too good cuz we're one of the first houses being picked up and they're going by my house at 8:00 and it's like if I don't have my stuff out, [laughter] you're

supposed to have it out by 7:00. Yes. I don't like their workers asking me for money at Christmas time. I know. I Their workers ask That's what they want. When they put that card in your on your can, they're hoping you're going to put money back in.

Oh, I don't have a Maybe I just put Maybe they're just doing just what that seems like. I don't know. It's a tip. It's about a tip. I didn't get a I didn't get a Christmas card this year. And I And to be quite honest, I've thought about throwing out a

You did last year. Last year I put some scratch cards out there for them, but uh that's that's what that's about. I've had those a couple times. I haven't taken it that so solid waste. Um is that pretty much everything we have right now, right?

That's pretty much everything we have right now. I was doing the math on the um insurance. So the insurance this year went up 11.25%. where you guys want me to go with this. So act the health insurance. the health insurance.

That's what I um I don't I I hate to bring this up um and so on, but we've been had this is I think the second year would double digit. last year was very close to 10% I think if if it wasn't over and the health insurance cost

health insurance and so on and but that's every company it is but most most uh most businesses um it's being handed down in in such uh so let's say they were doing 8020 they they changed to 7525 and things like that and um it's it's not something I want to do but I I I think it's something we at least need to disc at least need to discuss and whether cuz there doesn't seem to be any any stop to this. Um and

the town can't continue continually absorb 10% on this. I mean we're talking somewhere in the neighborhood of 17 to $20,000 for a family plan that the town is covering. And you look at if if you look at 10% increase every year, that's a lot of money.

I it's all going to get repealed in another year. So what? Well, this isn't this has nothing to do with it. This is health insurance. Well, I mean, this isn't Affordable Care Act health insurance. This existed before the ACA,

but it has an absolute impact on every person's insurance policy. Yeah, it it it I I agree that that the that act could have affected the price of insuranceances throughout. But on the other hand, it's also this is a separate product from that.

This is a separate product and we were complaining about increases before the ACA. My my guess is with even with the repeal, you're still going to see increases like this because the cost of health care is increasing too. a home a home

and the use and the usage of healthcare is increasing, right? But what's your so what's your suggestion I'm picking up on is research? Uh not necessarily research. We already know what it's going to cost. We've we've researched these to death over uh last year and then two years before that. There isn't um so there's several ways we can go. We can continue to offer the same plan and the same rates. Uh you know this we

can we can do status quo. We can offer the same plan and do different percentages. We can offer a different plan that costs less and use the same percent. There's several things that you could do. Each one of them has an effect on the town and on the employees. And we are we are both employers and servants of the town. And how it's

how do you balance that? If we went with something where we decided to cut the percentage that we chipped into it and so on are we it's going to make the employees less happy. They may look elsewhere because most other towns are offering somewhere in the same range as we are. dots hiring 90 people

and things like that. So it's we could that's not going to be a good you know we if if we if we made changes we got to think you know could it affect our employee base as far as who we can retain and who we can hire later on and so these are all things we have to we have to talk about and I think we do have to discuss this um we've been we have been pushing it down the road and saying we want to continue to offer what we have and so on. But

we did take a long hard look at it last year and looked at doing the health trust account and making adjustments and ultimately I think deter my recollection is determined that the administrative costs of that y that far outweighed any potential cost saving

right I mean at least in in the first few as far we don't have enough employees to make it worthwhile yeah as far as ease ease of you know here's where we can find our savings the easiest thing is is adjust the percentage that we that we chip in for. But that's um I mean and

I got head-hunted by this law firm. I got offered a job this law firm in Rhode Island and they sent me all their health insurance information and it was so absurdly expensive. And here they're a huge national law firm and they don't pay for they pay like 40%

of the employee, none of the family and it's a firm is out of Rhode Island. So all their networks are in Rhode Island. So then you have to pay for the higherend plan that's the PO plan so that you don't have to have a you know so you can use out of network people. And I'm [laughter] like, "So, basically what you're telling me is for roughly $2,200 a month, I can have a $5,000

[laughter] plan." So, actually, that that remind that that is another thing that we could look at is um HMO versus PO. No. um changing uh you know, we could chip in more towards the employee health insurance and less towards the family part or things like that.

And I I know I know some on the budget committee have been pushing that for for years, but um it's I really hate to I I really hate to make changes on it, but I think we actually do need to discuss it and uh cuz I I think we've been pushing off the discussion of it. um we've been saying no we want we want to stay with what we've had and so on and then the budget committee comes in and discusses it and

it comes up on town floor I think we should get some quotes from a private company too just so they can see we've already done stay with MMA we we've done that we the problem is that takes time um and how often do you do it

he's going to want to see it we did it two to three years ago and the difference was astronomical well can we re can we find that information at least so that we can remind them why we started. I don't know. I felt like they got it last time when I told them. You know, it's like we're pulled with 69 other municipalities.

It's a huge tip. The more people you can pull. And I mean, MMA's prices aren't um out of whack with other other compan right? They do breakdowns. Uh what is it? This this not the salary surveys, but they do these surveys where they uh they show you for the amount of dues you paid in this year. This is the benefit you got. And so

I didn't have that with me. I would before though to explain why we belong to MMA. We had to justify that like two years ago. They were all about the the biggest thing is it's a time suck to And if they and it to me it seems like a waste of time to do it every year.

Well, here's the thing. You're you're the chair of the budget committee. You could do the same damn thing. No, no. We're we're supposed to feed them all the information. That's and and I understand that they I mean that is it is part of our job to justify why we're asking what we're asking. Right. But the budget many members of the budget committee have been on the budget committee for a long time. And so the institutional right knowledge of the budget committee I would anticipate would would understand some of those some of those numbers and why we wouldn't have to do it every year.

more when we get to those line items and and then when the budget committee gets to those line items. If you guys hang around for a couple minutes afterwards, I can run you guys the revenue for this year, too. We were up in our revenue quite a bit. Excise tax was up by $80,000.

That means next year it'll be down because nobody's going to buy new vehicles. It was like last year though, too, as I recall. Yeah, it's been up every year. It's been it's been trending up some. Um, people won't have to buy new vehicles as we fix the roads. So, yeah, that's it.

Yeah. Well, we shouldn't fix the roads. So, [laughter] there you go. So, and actually, I mean, some of the people used to like to I mean, hang on to their cars for long times and so on because well, for one thing, your excise tax and so on went way way down. Now, it after six years it levels off. It never goes down as low as it used to.

Well, people used to also, you know, we we Oh, yeah. I didn't know I paid $100 for the car. [laughter] People used to fix things then. Yeah. Yeah. The world has become very disposed. Well, and yeah, it's things are much more electronic. It's a lot harder for people to fix. It's more expensive to fix.

Now that the excise is based on the MSRP instead of instead of what your bill of sale says, you know. So, yeah. That's that's the state ripoff. Yeah. Are we all are we all set then? I don't know that we need we don't need a motion to declare the workshop closed.

Yep. Okay, thank you. Fuels