TranscriptSelect Board Meeting ~ July 12, 2022

call this meeting of the durham board of selectmen on july 12 2022 to order please stand for the pledge of allegiance united states of america and to the republic for which it stands one nation under god indivisible with liberty and justice for all okay all five board members are present uh amendments to the agenda um i have one we're gonna uh before we do public comment we're gonna have the chief um come up for a presentation but any other amendments to the agenda byob application in just a reminder oath of office for the newest part-time counter person i thought that that was on the minutes from last week so what was that not done last that last meeting i thought we did it i thought we did it it's in the minutes as having been done okay by but we still have a byob application all right that'll be 7d

okay uh chief tripp has a presentation that he'd like to make so uh i'll have a comment yeah i can have nick and noah and the fire department good evening thank you for the time by the way i appreciate that court it's it's sometimes my duty to to inform you of uh extraordinary events and members of your department are extraordinary and they pull off extraordinary events every day and they do it with such frequency that extraordinary is now calming it really is what's not common is uh noah larabee and nick weber who have been to the last six months going to firefighter won two that's two times a week it's ten saturdays it's six months it's countless hours of non-pay dedication studying and time at the firehouse which makes us better because they ask me how to tie it on i gotta look it up when they're not looking and then go show them about that or not but it makes us all better um and tonight

they get helmet fronts tonight uh the larabee's fourth generation uh and his dad cj is going to give a helmet front with a number um to his son noah uh so we're going to take the p off of it for probationary and tonight they are legitimately firefighters and emts and nothing makes the chief product or a dab so if you can rip the p off of that i'd appreciate it

on [Laughter] don't see and i'm privileged to is nine o'clock at night this week at the koa these two gentlemen take care of a cardiac event from a visitor and the other night at a accident scene taking care of a patient and the other morning at 1 30 in the morning with me until six babysitting runs with fire station running calls as they had their fire and coming in for lisbon over the weekend and washington waxing the truck and representing us and our town uh covering them so every day they make a difference and they deserve it they deserve to be recognized and i appreciate it so you may now call them firefighters great congratulations

thank you um for your willingness to serve the community and to step up durham is very very fortunate with our fire department a lot of communities have quite honestly struggled with you know numbers and dedication and response and everything from their from their fire and rescue but that has not been an issue in durham uh thanks to the people involved and their dedication and their leadership so on behalf of the board thank you very much thank you it's a testament to gentlemen to come out men and women in just guys these and back them up so with that being said i know we're going to get a call so

uh small kitchen fire grease fire put out our assistant article it wasn't the primary living location of so nobody nobody's like homeless because of it or okay all right and i wanted to note i was i happened to be a scanner buff and i was listening to the whole call those engines were there two three minutes maybe everybody was out of the station it was amazing you had all of them sixteen guys all of them yep yeah that was that's a testament they were right on that spot on it

see anybody that might be here for public comment unless they're lingering out in the lobby but yeah but just to be safe just to be sure yeah right come on it's gone whisper we forget that sometimes outside yeah i like leaving the windows open though yeah it's much nicer amazing so freezing there's like just heat coming down oh yeah okay um

sound like we have a separate report for fire and ems correct um and rose do we have our seventh report for calgary here okay okay great thank you and what was calvin out there i didn't see him let me see him either i didn't see him pull in

home alone coward next to the bathtub i'm sure [Music] may i suggest mr chairman if calvin does come in we give him that opportunity but i thought i saw his truck as snooze you lose man yep living you know unless yeah i mean i think let's see we're gonna move on all right so we're past public comments and we're past the fire and road commissioner's report so that brings us to the town manager's report very quick uh i've been working a little bit on reviewing the xfinity uh not xfinity i'm sorry the comcast contract i did check mma does not provide representation at all and i haven't found any groups that have coalesced to be able to negotiate and i suspect that there's very narrow areas for which we can negotiate but while i'm here i will certainly keep you abreast and of the elements because first time out they usually lay on the table what they're looking for and then i'll bring it back

to you yeah i think what we'd probably want to be on the lookout for is any language that's significantly different than the current contract you know like if they're looking to make any significant changes um and if so then we might need to dig a little bit deeper into those to see if it's a big deal because i know there is a lot of stuff going on nationally and even state wise um about franchise fees and and things of that sort so we'll just have to keep our eye on that soon

authorization you provided and i'm also working with the ladies in the front we've gotten one specific quote for payroll services just to see what that factor is what it details and is it cost effective yeah but we've got that in the works as well one and again as you look into that because we've looked at this in the past and the and it's a different town staff now but what we heard on a couple years ago was that because of the trio system that they ended up having to enter everything anyway even with a payroll service so but i know but i know when talking to another to a provider that who does municipalities that have the trio system that there's still a lot of benefits to using the payroll service so really and i am in no position to make a recommendation tonight just keeping you informed okay

as we go through uh we'll discuss some of the other issues especially town meeting possibility things of that nature okay okay then we'll move into old business 6a certificate of assessments signatured items that we need to make sure you sign before you leave tonight they're in this oh here yes you've got a whole slew of sign off and this is related to um this is the me the last meeting where you set the property the mill rate and all that right that was all approved but we didn't get to get to sign off on all of those so i'm asking that you do that tonight this is just for for the chair to sign right we signed them last week uh this this one has five blank yeah i've got the originals and we've got the blanks that go say it was the original signed and then we just need another formal copy of original is that what this is these are the breakouts between county uh local municipality tips we don't have and and then the

balance so i've brought them all back so we can get them all signed i can then send them where they belong too that's the same thing though that's a signature thing that's just out of here how is this different than we signed last week i think these are the originals that were given to me and i may not have given you the originals that's what my concern is so i'm duplicating just to make sure okay other than that there would be no difference at all okay the numbers are still the same there's no change in the number that's really with the yeah yeah the signature's no big deal i just wanted nothing no change in the number change no we thought we were all signed up and that pat's going around the world yeah okay all right so that takes us takes care of six a and b let's just sign those tonight uh 6c is flag displays

if the town had any monies available because a lot of the flags we needed a couple of more and some of them were decrepit and so forth and we kind of like a better word challenge him to maybe seek the public first and then maybe we could empty out a coffee know back or something if one was available and the way i understood it is the the town basically showed up and um by the time we got home from the meeting they showed him i think you you get some credit for this too right

little bit on that so has the money actually been collected or whether you're sitting on the channel no we are sitting on the checks they made out to the town yes so when i saw that whole thing going that was my question is yeah you know like are we even authorized to accept and then spend that money without a town vote that becomes a very good point and it gets the second part of that but you know in all fairness it's not unusual but it's also not unusual for groups of yourself who've done who've had that collection to turn around and say we'd rather have the donors make the checks out to the private nonprofit organization that is going to handle this going forward but people have already written their checks right and we're going to have a town meeting in a month or so right yeah well we're going to talk about that yeah presumably yeah my my question it was more of a sidebar between todd and i's whether a

whether or not town could do that and b you know it was keith that brought it up whether or not we could use maybe write checks up to the vfw and they would keep the money in maybe a um an account and they would write the checks that was like somewhat of a non-profit that the towns people are writing to or via the fire departments maybe they're because they're volunteer group i know they have a separate that's not necessarily affiliated with the town yeah right and they can keep that money in escrows and have you know maybe if there's a fund balance that's exceeds what they needed that they'll have for the next year and the years to come whenever they needed a replacement flag i didn't think it should have went to the town it happened in less than 24 hours yeah the other question i think we had was was there anything left in the memorial day fund which is where this was probably funded from before

and did that was there still an account for that which there was a thought that um i don't know the answer to that i don't recall i came in the next day and then realized that this may take its place but i did not do the research um i think if so i think there's two questions here i think if if the flag expense in the past came out of memorial day fund which i'm not i don't know if it just came out of that if it just came out of public works quite honestly um like can we take those checks and simply deposit and debit or credit the um memorial day fund and then use those funds to buy flags i mean the other thing is like you know what part of me i mean i know we're being recorded but it's kind of this is one of those things like just ask for forgiveness later you know nobody's going to get you right is this yeah that's something that needs to happen now well we get a dozen checks no no no no i mean

from the money standpoint yes because they're holding the price if my memory certainly right on the meeting you're right 30 years yeah you're right that's right here so what i would hold and then then we could set something up for next year yeah you know if you did a big figure i think the memorial day fun was and then set something up

smaller we we did but i didn't i thought we kept that one because i thought we mentioned that there was something like a thousand something dollars left in the memorial day fund just recently yeah well the chart of accounts should show that you know and and um actually i can uh i think that you hit the policy questions but let me elaborate if i may a little bit more it's great that the citizenry stepped up to the play phenomenal really the real question is

talking about that that the town manage and administer those funds or should it really be separate from the town in a coordination with the town in the future because who's ultimately going to put the flags up take them down and store them as well as replace them as needed that's why i actually think it should be a town thing and i think it's public works should be putting those flags up and down every year and and probably in the long term it should be part of the public works budget no argument but i want you to have that discussion because if it is all the more reason why you should have approval to accept funds and appropriate them for the purposes in which they were intended well then i think i'm gonna move that we accept the donated funds that uh from citizen checks for uh flags american flags and that that money be deposited into the memorial day parade account and then be expended from that

account to purchase flags is that a second as a second okay so now we can have a discussion and then vote or not vote or whatever i don't think keith martin's putting i don't think we need to pay anybody by the hour to put up flags well it's not mine okay i mean who's done it in the past oh it hasn't been a

he was doing it was he using he might use the fire department stuff that's why i was that's why my brain goes wrapped around the fire department being a separate entity quasi government corporation of whatever they are as far as their where they would retain the money because we accept the money we authorize to spend the money what do we do with the overage if there is an overage does it go into an escrow simply for flags i mean that yeah that has to be very specific how we lay that out because faux flags so was it just for one more yeah but it's going in the memorial day fun so can the memorial day funnel only use it on flags i mean you have to it's very specific if we had exactly the amount from the town of what that is written for then so be it make it go about write the check but i'm i'm assuming based on the numbers there's just a little bit of overture yeah go second did please joe thank you

you're probably right it may be but i think if if the overage is remains in the memorial day um parade account then i think it's still for the intended purpose that people made those contributions right right as long i'm fine with it as long as the money is for flags i think if you bought something for the memorial day parade like candy for the select board to pass out or something like that that's where i think people could maybe right and i'm not saying it's justified for them to get upset i'm just saying if it's not specifically used for flags i think it has to be earmarked specifically for flags if we accept them

because i think it needs to be cleaned up um let me withdraw your second yep okay all right um public works thing so complicating this yeah um yeah i mean people donated money for flags let's just go buy some damn flags right um doesn't need the beginning right does who's got the uh now i noticed in the packet somewhere there was a bid or an estimate for the flags who got that did keith get that you got that you mean that yeah but the checks are made out to the town of durham yes that's the problem and do we have a balance that's greater than that a month do we know what the balance of the total of the checks was i think it's almost close to it anything that is lacking would come from i think the intent your memorial fund so we're mixing apples and oranges all the way through and if we go ahead and make the expenditure without the authorization i think you run afoul of your appropriation issue yeah i just don't

want to commingle money that is basically brought in by charities sure right with something official businesses get the deduction and if it's not a 501c3 the citizens are just doing it right goodness of their heart that's why i was thinking or the vfw or something of that nature and but if the checks are already made out to the town of durham i mean but we know who made the checks out so we can effectively turn around and ask the the individuals who made those checks to come back in once you've decided where that best is going to be managed how many checks are we talking about can't be more than a dozen i still gotta write mine because i wasn't sure because i left it off last time like how do we know we could bring this money to the top

it's not ready for prime time we ought to acknowledge the fact that you're still deliberating on where that's best located but in this case i think people responded because it was the town leadership that wanted that to happen and they assumed it would be the town all the way through that's fine i think most people assume it's the town doing it and um

like just eat we and we may not want to do it in future years this way but at least for this year because we have the checks and the made out to the town of durham i guess i'm going back to um the town accepts the money and we just whatever the total for the checks are and we um

those funds to go get the flags i was going to say the town's collecting the money they should just invoice the town and let tom pay the bill sure yeah this is one of those these instances where you're asking for forgiveness and isn't this a conversation we've had an executive session with this other stuff we've been doing about one of the questions that we all found important and asking candidates for the open position was why would you this isn't a legal issue this is just well no but it's not breaking any laws by right i'm not saying that but what i'm saying is you know we've placed an importance on this and i want this done as much as anybody else but we place in such an importance on that concept in this other area and now we're saying well it means so much if this person does it but we're okay betting the rules in this case for something that we find important and i feel like that's a

double standard that i guess i frankly i don't look at this as anybody trying to cross or circumnavigate a law uh it's just it's just how we appropriate the funds correctively it's not necessarily how we circumnavigate by doing it legally or illegally it's just so i don't see how that's even more the same but that's just mr chairman would it be satisfactory to all of you since checks are good for 60 to 90 days i'll research further i'll also contact

fire and rescue and see if they have a fund that they deal with that is not part of the appropriation process i'll also contact amvets and see if they have a willingness to maybe participate and will set up a collaboration presuming that is presented to you the way i see it working is the person or the entity that is then in control of the monies for the purpose in which they were intended and the individual who does the volunteer work would coordinate each year to do what they need to do we yeah i think it's worth doing that but one other thing i might add to that is there's nothing that says we can't create a flag fund a town flag fund right nothing and we could take those checks and put them in the town flag fund um and then expand then the question becomes though are we authorized to expend the money from the fly phone but you could i think you could argue that you know since this wasn't a

involuntary taxation but a voluntary donation that we we have expressed approval to spend the money for that purpose you're an intermediary you're not spending towns people's taxes right that's what i mean yeah yeah that's what i mean so you're basically i think i think the sooner we have those flags up the more willingness you're going to see to get it get donations to it this type of thing again because well obviously they'd like to see this town painted in black red white and blue yeah would two weeks make a difference yeah yes only because of this quote i mean it's a short summer okay so who's gotta come down who's got a proposed solution put them in a flag fund we spend the money why don't we put them in the select phone they're authorized to spend on that do we have a selection this one discretionary fund yeah

to spend out of it i just i don't know how i feel about putting the donations into it you know i mean yeah all right since you've skirted the issue as was pointed out what happens if you authorize your tax raised and appropriated funds to buy the flags and accept the reimbursement as a donation

it as a shell game but that's what it is that's what it's not a game it's just it's it's just that just the technical donations i am concerned that whatever you establish is flexible enough to continue to function properly and not be subject to criticism which overshadows the whole purpose yeah but i'm not worried about whatever we do this year establish the process for future years i think i think we're just at this point because the next time we would be out in front of it enough to or have something set up in order to you know handle something like this better

i don't know why that wouldn't work you know like we you know we could certainly you know out of again out of the um uh whether it's public works or whatever um you know it's do it on the public works budget to purchase the flags use the donations to credit back to public works and the note on the credit to the account is donations for

purchase of flags and as long as you've got an invoice in the donations that are driving with each other then we should be good wasn't there a time and i know it's kind of different but wasn't there a time where we could accept like um funds for home heating and grant funds and stuff like that that the town has like a like people could donate money not necessarily a giving tree but it was given specifically the town if somebody was in need and you didn't have to go back to authorize the sale or the purchase but it was i'm talking probably four years ago i don't know i thought i don't remember that maybe somebody donated some money for feeding oil assistance or something like that every year because we are even i can't remember specifically what it was and i'm sure if ruth was here she could you know yeah we would put it in the next count we need you know what but we need to figure this out because um

we need to figure out how to accept donations and then allocate them in general because remember we had a gentleman step forward who said i would have donated like yes a substantial amount of money to the scholarship fund for for instance right and i'm not sure we would even know how to take that money

but i think if the think see a reason why it wouldn't be perfectly legit to on mitch's suggestion to basically just go ahead and and pay for the flags basically you know even if you have to buy an extra couple of flags use all the donation money use like whatever was donated use it right so and then we have the invoice so that all that donation money was applied to flags or or the hardware to hang them you know whatever um and and we can you can show the money going out and you can show the money coming in for that purpose that people don't make that emotion i'm instructed to follow it but uh do you want me to also touch base with our town attorney to get that opinion or just do it well no i think i could i think we could put the motion to you know uh subject to review with the town attorney yeah yeah yeah so it's not but i just well i was just putting that out to the board josh what are your thoughts on that if

you're asking for forgiveness i'm not going to support it i support it no i'm not asking you but that's what that's essentially what we're doing right well what's your solution well i don't have one and i i think the solution is we have to wait we sh we we weren't prepared for this as we should have been um but if that's i i'm going to abstain i would i would vote against it but for what the purpose of it you don't want to vote against the flag because because the idea is great i just we've made the issue in other contexts and now we're raising something similar and to me it's if you're asking for forgiveness yeah i think that that phrase did come up and i think and other scenarios that may have been doing that but i don't think that's the case now i think this is a i think what what's being proposed is a perfectly appropriate legitimate um

way and we're going to it's going to be subject to review with the town attorney and if the town attorney comes back and says yeah i know you really can't do that then we don't do it mitch you said there was 12 and and 12 people approximately that wrote checks good give or take 12 to 15 people let's just call the people up and have them write that check out to the flag store and whatever differences we'll figure out we can call me your todd and we'll get the remaining balance done for you let's just go that route and we don't have to involve town attorneys we don't have to we don't have to ask permission we don't have to forgive for permission and this is as clean as clean can be is that however you instruct i will try to follow i mean if it's only 12 i could see if we had like a 125 checks all over the place but i don't think that's the case i also agree with the longer term view this may be the start of something good

and we ought to make sure it's a solid foundation yeah we can do our due diligence going on but being that quote for lack of a better words i know it's not really time is of the essence but they did give a quote and said it was they were specifically said it was only good for x amount of time and that was two weeks ago and to wait another two weeks for a board to convene yeah we're not going to have a special meeting to convene over this i wouldn't assume so i think that's probably the easiest and cleanest that nobody's going to feel like when we skirt their system or anything of that picture i i don't understand why we can't put them in the memorial day funding and do it's gonna be a hard we've only got six or seven weeks so we can fly flags and we're gonna take up two or three weeks trying to get all everybody to make out new checks

at the end of the day we do it we do have to do this in a way that right um you know doesn't get the town in hot water i don't see how it could there's wasn't there a warrant article that was approved authorizing you as a board to accept yes we can accept a grant and we can say it's the same thing basically if if that's what we're for the purpose in which they were intended if that's the case then that warrant article legitimately covers

interesting it would be uh towards the end of the numbers before they got to the last um i think it would be a stretch to apply the article because the article specifically refers to grants okay yeah um all right i said it's only all 15 people yeah it's trying to get the job done i'll ask the ladies to do that over the next few days yeah yeah and just we'll do it and that's the cost to do it we'll get on facebook and get it done but it's going to take i don't know

don't don't do it for if it don't do it for my my benefit yeah we've only got like i said we've only got six or seven i think winners it is kind of it's not necessary for your benefit josh but as a board we try to be on a on something like this you want to you want to be you but you want to be together on something there's there's a lot of things we don't know and we're supposing but there's one thing that we definitely know that the people that wrote those checks want us to buy flags right so if we take that money and we buy flags i don't see an issue if we have to i agree you know run the money um through a town account um then i don't think you know and it's a clear clear paper trail there's just nothing you know deceptive about it and i think it basically it accomplishes what people wrote those checks for yeah i think just the fact that we have to deliberate this long on buying american

flags right for a town in the united states of america just shows you how great this process is i i think it's that's people feeling whether you know they're patriotic they write a flag and then you know we're looking at oh possibly breaking a law or something or we can bring that mention up you know it's just i don't know todd do you want to make do you have them this or anybody does anybody have a motion

and expend it as intended four flags and get them up on the poles as soon as possible let's set the uh hands on the volunteer yeah we're not doing it flags and holders yeah all right was there a second to that motion also all right so the motions um doesn't specify how i guess we leave that like to the discretion of town staff on how to account how the accounting would work and you can certainly consult with the town attorney or our auditors if you want on how to uh how to account for that but i think the objective is the motion is to um accept the donations and use the funds uh to purchase the flags and associated supplies um asap as intended as intent okay any further discussion on that

opposed and we have one abstention so motion passes 4-0 yeah thank you can we go backwards now that do we know we gotta keep going report nope no i think we're good um 6d old town hall roof replacement quotes i think we have two quotes is that right that's what i saw yeah and be honest i haven't done any more so far what's that now i haven't gotten any more so far are you expecting any more do you know well i haven't lost anybody else so i have been busy [Applause] i did talk to one of the historic commission and this

feel that it should be either the original color of that roof but that color will be in black and white and or the present color of the roof i was only asking what do you what would you favor and since it's on the there's a commit there's a it's designated register um

it says that it should be either the original color of the roof when it was built or the present color does anybody know what the original color was when it was that's what i'm saying it's probably in a black and white photo right there i know but tom why why don't we just get a swatch of whatever you know ico provides i mean we can't have custom shingles made for roof and have the historic district pick which one you want no there's only like six holes available anyway right now i mean i mean are the other colors that they're that that are in the bid here well actually color of choice is what this this one says i mean they're all going to be some form of charcoal or black aren't they i mean we're not picking green or brown right or tan the one that's on there is kind of a white wettish green color

available that would make it easier is that a faded do you think the color faded from the original uh it's kind of a mix of white and green kind of it's a no tab shingle it certainly isn't what was on there it's a what it's a no tabs and then both of these bids are calling for architectural shields that's all anybody will put on anymore right but it was probably cedar shingle when it was built right so what do we do now i think you pick gray or black or whatever yes of forgiveness no i don't think this is a certainty thank you for that i think

the eureka center there you have an emergent situation arise and we're in a situation where the supply chain is in flux and black on a white building or a gray on a white building is not you know it is what it is it's rather than having a two and a half foot hole through a building yeah yeah have it leaking the hole has been repaired but they said i think probably says there it's i would i don't have a problem if they want to go to home depot or wherever these shingles are coming from and pick from the ico if they you want to leave that up to them but i mean yeah or this guy um i will say you know um jack's property service i don't know if you guys picked up on this but his bid's a little bit more money but he's his bid includes 716 osb shooting over the entire roof whereas the um the other bid just basically says damage to rotten wood to be assessed when shingles are removed it's a big difference that's a huge difference

right between the boards so um calvin what's on that do you know no as far as like the shingle color material up there so there's an asphalt it's whitish green well they're all black on the bottom you're not really supposed to see the bottom though

put on there i thought i knew who put it on that's not the case i don't know all right so what's the next step here it sounds like it's not the hole's been repaired so it's um is it repaired and there's a roof in good enough shape to like make it through the winter or are we talking about we need to do something before the winter uh bob scaman thought that we probably should do something before the winter well of course he does he's a contractor he wants to do a room and that's not an insult on him specifically any contractor is going to say that he's trying to be honest about it

again we have a a procedure of requesting quotes based on yeah this isn't really an rfp thing rfq more than anything yep but let me ask a policy question of you and you can dodge it by saying that's not for subject tonight buildings in general have their own history it's not the subject for tonight it's not the sunday for today yeah that's a long subject yeah

monies to um do this i'd have to go back and check the funds specifically to see what money is this would be this will be funded probably out of the municipal building capital account well there is a fund for that building oh specifically for that building

separate yep and do we have to have the um any other input from any other committees to spend that money no okay not out of capital once once money's been appropriated and approved by voters to go into a capital account the board can authorize its expenditure as long as it's being spent on what was authorized to go in there used it out of that account to repair the battery right so we need to excavation so we need to see what's in there so you can actually get so should the motion be contingent upon that are we even ready for a motion at this point should we get another couple of quotes well we'd like to usually get a couple more yeah i mean we don't i know there's at least one other roofing company in town it doesn't have to be in town you know yeah i just think we should have at least three can you authorize in the motion to get at least one more additional quote and that all three who are

quoting show us a sample of the color that they're proposing so that we get as close as possible to what the requirements are i just think we tell them that's a stretch man yeah it's just you know i mean i get where the historic commission's coming from and that would be kind of to me that's a nice to have you know if we can do it great if not and the roof needs to be fixed and we can't do it then i think that's like the heating system going you say hey we got to go back to uh you know whatever they heated that the wood stove

but historical committees take these near and dear issues to heart oh they know and well then perhaps instead of us keep doing this have the historical committee make a recommendation to us go and get bids and pick out colors and stuff like that get it done why are we dealing with it done right that's what you want done and we'll see if we can approve it

to make a motion for jack's property service to uh upon the the color of the shingle accept the jacks property bid and allow the historic district commission to select um available colors of uh let them pick the color i know we got the color that we put on the porch was that last year hold up that's right we redid the porch right and we redid the roof on that well that's what you go with so i don't i don't like the color you don't like the color what's on the roof this bit is to also do the front porch roof though well if we change the color no his bid says strip off existing roof shingles on main roof and front porch roof says that it does but if we change the color they would not touch any part that doesn't doesn't whether this color changes or not right todd it doesn't matter what you think it matters what it says on the bed right and i would think i forgot about us replacing that porch we have shingles

already that we just picked out somebody picked it wasn't this board because i don't remember picking a single color other than for this particular building and in your policy it uses the term you select the proposal or bid that is most advantageous

putting on 7 16 and doing all of the other things in my mind is advantageous the seven sixteenths i'm definitely thinking so there's i'm looking at this landmark i'm looking at the certainty landmark series and this thing it comes there's like 20 colors here one of them is hunter green colonial slate cobblestone gray i will add that i put on a new roof recently and about a third of the colors are available to anybody yeah just fyi yeah everything is available right now because right now that supply chain issue yeah so are we making a motion or i thought we were talking before about asking for a few more quotes

have in hand but if the board wants to you go out for for more than soviet i think throw it back in the historical district's court say yeah they're not equipped to they're not i mean if we had the committee up and running okay for that building um i think that i think that would be a perfectly appropriate move but they don't there is no there is no committee i just know in the past they've handled the foundation work getting bids for that and so forth that's why i said that no they they didn't do that i think yeah todd did that he was the liaison next time ask for help so someone else can help you have some of your knowledge not that i'm volunteering and they've done some um they did some work with one of those longer-term restoration guys um and brought us some information on that yeah yeah um but i'm good either way yeah i am too you know i mean um

throw this out there maybe maybe it's just my own personal belief it just seems like as of late last three four months six seven eight meetings it seems a lot of these subjects whether it's hvac systems we just keep kicking cans down the road the same things keep coming up and up and up and we never resolve but is it because we're not it's not because the board is not making a decision or because we now we we we're not getting the information that we need to make a decision well i think it's a little bit of both right and we're asking for more yeah i think every time it comes up we ask for more information rather than saying specifically hey this is up we need a new roof okay bring us back x y z and z now somebody comes back with a quote and we're like well let's go back to the next one and get some more information i i agree and as long as the two quotes we have now are in line with our policy

then i think you're i think you're fine for me it comes back down to color and who's i throw that back the history they can pick color i mean come on well they said if we wanted to go the original color or the existing column nobody knows with you what's the original color black i don't know if i can go off of that that's black it looks good i would just you can get a little sample of ico shingles over i know

what's existing but we don't have to match anything it's replacing everything according to jack's bid i think the i think the provenance of the ruth roof color has been lost already yeah i wouldn't disagree so so i mean i i think i would be okay with emotion matching it to the color that of the porch that was replaced recently i'm fine with that too yeah i'm just i'm just looking to get it in i i don't care what the color is to be honest you can put a purple roof on there as far as i'm saying

i won't try to picture what's more important eroding further and further or getting the problem fixed so the color to me is the last problem that we need to deal with the bigger issue is keeping a building from eroding even further right i agree getting color is trivial at this point we're getting on the buildings and get that roof done so um is would somebody be interested in making a motion to accept the bid from jack's property service um and leaving the color decision to allow the historic district commission to pick from available colors of the certainty landmark architectural roof shingle so can we a second that's what's in the bids that's why i said that but oh i just so okay so i was there but is there a second first of all and then we'll see okay second okay so i guess my question would be can can we get this wall and have it here and have the decision made next next meeting because because waiting is going to

delay things oh i agree and i think they could do it in the interim all of them have yeah access they can go right on their website and pick out a color they they can work in fact we could you know well you i mean i just got a new roof too and and you know x is only available right there's only five colors available right now nothing in green or green and x you're telling me to read the last term

jack's property bid and have the historical district commission select the color that is already on the porch oh that wasn't the motion that was it wasn't what's already on the porch you want to scratch that part i would say select a color an available color suitable to the historical character of the building i would leave it i i think that's what the motion the second was i i would just make a motion to amend to give a time frame as to when the decision has to be made because why so we don't delay i mean if they're going to go shopping for everything and start checking and it's going to take six weeks the motion is was very specific that they have to choose from available colors of the certainteed landmark architectural shingle plus five because that's what's that's what's in the bit yeah they won't be able to come back and say well gaf has so this right so basically basically jack will be instructed to

show the available colors to the store district commission and let them pick the car yeah yep i'll second it yeah we did that already we're in the discussion phase all right any other discussion on that joking about fixing himself yeah all right so just to recap the motion is to accept the jacks property service bid and um

the historic district commission for the color choice amongst what's available in that certainty landmark architectural roof shingle in the bid we have five zero okay curiosity i know we're past that it's not really for discussion but i was just finding just a mental note do we have to motion where the money comes from does it come from

than just a general then you can make a second motion yeah i know that's um yeah so entertain a motion that the funding of the um union church old town hall roof projects come from the fund the union church uh town uh fund yeah so moved right rich moves at is there a second on that josh seconds all any discussion all in favor

sure there's like you know 60 something thousand dollars in that account so and i don't know that i don't know if it's implied by making no that's a good call we didn't we do need to say where the money's coming from so that was a good catch so okay all right so that takes care of old business new business uh nomination for county budget committee you have that opportunity to select the person who's on the ballot or not

legislative policy there's two of them here the one that's there's an official ballot here excuse me a gentleman named lee clement who's a lewiston uh counselor board for two budget committee members to serve on the androscoggin county budget committee to represent district three municipal officers must vote for at least one candidate who's a municipal official which that's what we have on here so um

i don't know this person is a formality do you know i don't um so i would entertain a motion uh to vote for lee clement as a member of the anderson county budget committee does anybody want to make that motion or do we want to just not vote at all

recall for anybody ever getting asked we've been asked yeah i thought we'd i actually thought we did do it but just as a rubber stamp formality but maybe we didn't i could be wrong on that i remember it coming because every time we it's always what we're going to nominate well we've never chosen never chosen we've never chosen like to specifically nominate somebody and because i wouldn't do that to my worst enemy but um

person that's a good point it's a right-hand block you're right yeah there is um voice that's i could support it either way i'm not going to move forward i mean to me i think it's you know it's a vote we should do it we're out it's asked of us and obviously there's an interest in one person to want to do it yeah it's like being on the buddy committee it's kind of a thankless job but oh yeah all right well i'll move that we um vote for lee clement lewiston uh council member as a uh inner scotland budget committee member good job josh seconds okay any discussion on that all in favor all right

and we find out together yeah don't going to be harder because there's two names we only get to vote for one see we just opened up you could right so this one is um official ballot for the main municipal association's legislative policy committee that's actually a pretty important committee um they essentially um work with what are going from the municipal point of view you know what are the most important the either things they want to propose to the legislature or maybe fight in the legislature you know depending on on what the issue is so um we need to vote for one um one is uh matthew garcia town manager of the town of poland and the other is phillip crowell junior city manager city of auburn i know both they're both very capable so i i know i know phil he's the former chief of police in auburn he was the assistant city manager under peter creighton who i who i knew and respected i served on a

a non-profit board with him for a long time uh he's a stand-up person and uh somebody i would trust with my life i don't and that's not to say anything negative about the other person i just don't know him yeah but if phil asked me for you know if i could give phil anything i would he's just a stand-up guy um who i respect a great deal um just to throw the other side of the coin out there and again i completely buy and trust everything you just said about mr kyle um if i didn't if nobody had said anything to me and i was just looking at two names um i would i would have probably gone with the town manager from the town of poland simply because being from a smaller community that person might be a little bit more focused on smaller town issues versus city level issues of auburn so that would be again but i don't know this person i don't know either one of them but just using that as a criteria i would

lean towards the the town of poland town manager but um both do their diligence political parties no there's no political party know there aren't too many r's and municipal uh what are you trying to do so here here we vote for or we can write in um here we vote we vote for one so does anybody want to make them and what is the position it's the legislative policy committee so it's it's part of the maine municipal association and they um just like the name says they help set legislative policy for the mma with the legislature like what's you know um like what are important things they might want to push for like for instance uh you know if there was a revenue sharing bill or a um some sort of a municipality sharing in state tax revenue bill or could be other things you you're probably a lot closer to this than you know than i am but anything affecting municipal government yeah they're going

to review they're going to make recommendations to the legislature and they'll send reports on visa email and other especially when there are things that the legislature may be considering in their discussions once they get to a bill because the title may not also represent the impacts that bill has and they try to understand the impacts and share that information and then when you when you hear things like mma is against this mma is for that that largely comes from the legislative policy committee you know and which is so it's like a representative group of towns and cities that in you know that mma uses to inform positions they take with the legislature i would make a motion for to vote for uh philip kroll jr but i did notice when you were holding up that green sheet of paper there were profiles on the back and i don't know if anybody thought oh jesus yeah no let me read those candidate profile

matthew garside has served as manager in the town of poland for more than six years prior to that he served as ceo of an oil and gas firm and was captain in the u.s navy matthew would like to serve on the lpc because he believes strongly that presenting united consensus on municipal issues serves everyone's interest and that the reasoned well-thought-out approach to lobbying the legislature is a good model and it should be continued phillip crowell jr has served as city manager in auburn for the past two years prior to that he served as assistant city manager for two years and police chief for 12 years phil has served on the lpc since 2018 also he's on the committee now okay and would like to continue his service because he believes that home-based advocacy efforts make the lpc successful past commitments were honored in the last session and the core areas were protected he hopes to continue doing his

part to protect local governance in the coming session okay thanks for calling that out i missed that completely okay so did you have i'd make a motion that we've uh voted for phil kroll jr okay is there a second to that well second 12 seconds okay any discussion i'm i'm fine with it i mean like i said i think it's a win-win i don't know i think we'd be fine with either guy but phil somebody who i think if you called him up and asked him and again i'm not saying anything negative about the other guy because i don't but phil somebody who would answer the call and spend time talking to you and congratulations you're our new lpc liaison [Laughter]

of the navy i mean that's an oh six that's not like the army or what's it called which is no three people that's matthew garcia yeah so i mean that takes an outstanding individual to get to that point that is not an easy task to do yep okay

excuse me for our vote to be for philip crowell jr to serve on the mma legislative policy committee all those in favor of voting for mr crowl all is opposed two motion passes police chief for 12 years that's worth something too you know that's worse on but now i never was on the police force all right um

so this is um the discussion of a potential special town meeting to use to ask for authorization to expend some arpa funds and the kind of the three candidates right now are for gis mapping uh and then subscription to the service for two years um the other bucket would be the it bucket so that's the you know computers and software and phones needed here he was right there they go

and then some it enhancements at eureka center that would allow us to hold our meetings and and broadcast from the eureka center and then the other the third bucket is hvac systems for um for town offices fire ems um not public works

so the so going back to town meeting just to frame this up um we definitely heard from the public that they want um you know that they want a voice in um how arpa funds uh get spent um at the i think the concern was that the board we would just do whatever we felt like doing and without you know who knows what they were concerned about but um but i think at the time it was not known that you know any authorization of expenditure of arpa funds would require a town meeting vote anyway right so so we can't so that that's kind of that portion of it as a moot point that being said i still think there's interest in um you know in the bigger picture where where we have kind of um a lot of options like on how to spend the money like what might be the best way to do it this first the way i look at this first group is like these are kind of like need to do things and um so i think the way that we frame

this up is that you know of 420 something thousand dollars that we've got in arpa funds you know we're looking at about 40-ish percent of it that we feel is kind of needs to be applied to more urgent needs so we're asking for authorization to do that and then for the other balance of the money which is available more for probably like i don't know if i would put the term nice to have but less urgent more you know um subjective type of um so i think that that when for that portion we would do some sort of a um you know public hearing public input session like okay we've got this bucket of money what are some of the things that people think we ought to do with it so i think i think it's kind of a modified approach there and i think um you know it's a i think it's a legitimate i think it's legitimate for the board to put forward you know you know these things to the town without first having done a

like blue sky session you know so that's what i'm getting at so um and it's also true that um because um i'm pretty sure that because uh that the budget committee will also have to weigh in on this with their recommendation yes or no the idea that i've discussed with mitch is to word these articles as closed articles versus open articles and basically what that means is we'd be asking yes or no questions it wouldn't be uh um the amounts couldn't be amended on the floor of the meeting so for instance one of the questions might read something like and i'm making the amount up because this isn't what it is for sure um to see if the town will authorize the select board to expend you know up to um eighty thousand dollars on hvac equipment for town um for town-owned buildings right so it would be yes or no on the 80 000 it wouldn't be well i want to amend that to 85. i want to amend that to 75 you know be like no this is and we would

we would have good documentation like why it's the number we're asking for um so that's um that's the deal there so there's a few questions here um one is just thoughts on the special town meeting in general because we know ideally you know it's people reflexively don't always like special town meetings they just you know but the reality of today's world is you can't just you know we don't always have the luxury to make decisions once a year right so sometimes we get a we got to go out more than once a year um there's definitely especially in the case of hvac a time issue here like we really need to do something before before winter um and it's getting hot in here yeah so questions are about the meeting at all the timing of the meeting um i think you know mitch would say that you know he'd like to see it sooner rather than later um summer special town meetings can be challenging but you know they're

challenging at any time right um and then the question another question would be whether how to ask the questions like one school of thought is to just i like those three things that are on the list just all in one question yes or no or another approach would be like three separate questions kind of for those three three buckets that i that i listed so um that's kind of the conversation to have tonight i think ideally we would come out of here um if the board thinks a special town meeting is appropriate that we would try to nail down the timing of that and start getting the word out as soon as possible and and go from there so so i'll just open it up for you know discussion on on thoughts people have or questions or i think i think we need to have one uh and with some of the issues that need to happen sooner rather than later and i would say three separate questions although the idea of asking one and

hoping that you know they're all approved kind of but at the same time i think it's better policy to ask the separate questions yeah the way i would expect you to do it so that's subscription is that that's it you want to talk about that one a little bit mitch

understanding that gis mapping is the latest and it allows uh for updates on an annual basis that's the subscription part right after we go to the database that directly is in relationship to the tax billing right and the less mistakes you make on your tax billing and the more accurate you are in terms of assessing the fees for tax billing purposes uh the more dollars that come in and right now i would say to you that uh on a grade of 1 to 10 your current mapping system just doesn't cut the mustard you're probably at a five four maybe and the other issue is by having it digitized we can put it on the website it allows for less phone calls coming in to do research it makes better use of our staff time and it's updated annually so we would ask for a two-year subscription so that it gives time for public to see the benefit of that before it actually shows up under your raise and appropriate and appropriate the funds for uh an

ongoing so what are we using today sorry uh we have a freebie mapping service it's right there at best yeah yeah well that's what i'm kind of remembering from planning and and it's cool it doesn't it for free it's not bad no but it was never intended to and it needs to be updated that's what's your database for taxes so this is mostly for just buying into gis in general to for the town and then the subscription costs would be what a year ago we're figuring it's about a three thousand dollar subscription so two years is six so it's a ten and six for sixteen thousand i think it's also important to recognize what is the landscape going to look like over the next five to ten years and that's more work that the planning board right code enforcement officer and realtors are going to be involved with and and the licensing or the subscription would be accessible by all the folks on the planning board or

anyone on the website it's on the website it's public information anyway so it's just it's just open at that we're not looking too okay absolutely there's no there's no license again i don't know how many but most municipals have had this for me

that's great yeah and that's the thing i mean to that point yeah i was fun too i was pretty surprised at the the workload impact to town staff responding to realtor and bank calls about property type issues it's it's pretty significant and um this would take most of that they would allow them to say there's our website you can go do your own research it's a cheap alternative to adding more staff right yeah and so again it's an investment and there's an immediate return on that investment

full disclosure on that one when mitch and i were talking i agree that we should definitely do that i think i think it's a little bit of an open question on is that does that have the same sense of urgency and does that need to be part of the special town meeting or could that wait till april or or should we do that now knowing that it's kind of in that bucket of yeah we really need to do this and it's not as much of a blue sky thing it's it's more of a get your house in order thing and um you also then give the vendor the jibber

great point actually yeah i i think it's great i think these i think a b and c are all warranted um i i think i'd like to see you know something similar to like the spreadsheet entailing each one of them and then whatever other special funds are going to be needed whether it's for increased fuel prices etc that all broken down as far as a request and then perhaps presented to the board and we in the budget committee convene and then um or we can set a date for the meeting for say but i think there's just need to get a little bit more information i don't even know what we're going to be asking for at this meeting yet to have that yeah that that was i agree that was part of what i had asked for as well like like and i think we if we if we have that for um for the next meeting then we can we can set the um the specifics of the warrant article questions and then that way then jessica town clerk can start doing her thing

just as a matter of general understanding uh because you've had a great deal of deliberation on the hvac systems as one example and expansion roughly you're going to expend and i'll get you the specifics but the i t infrastructure improvements are fifty five thousand dollars roughly the replacement electrical upgrading of the hva systems the town hall building fire ems and extension straight through to eureka seventy five thousand dollars and the gis sixteen thousand dollars so what you end up with is somewhere in the vicinity of about 140 000 out of a arpa fund of 421 000 which goes back to the chairs commentary that these are timely supply chains concerns but the bulk of the money the majority of the money is still subject to the discussions between yourselves as policy makers and the public at large i think to rich's point it's it's the for that 55 and 75 and in the 16 000 you

know a little bit more black and white breakdown of where those numbers coming from yeah it's you know it's it's almost 150 grand based on what you just think but i mean some of this some of this information just from the last time we have spoken just on this hvac bid has changed i don't i'm assuming this is for both the town hall it says town hall heating units i'm assuming this is for both based off this price but now now we've added in hot water heaters i don't recall that in the past that has changed and because uh calvin has since we were right in the utility room and that thing's 1986 and it's just gonna blow listen i don't think it's not warranted i'm just saying there hasn't been any discussion and this is the first time i've ever seen it as an option so i mean that could be taken over and then my other concern is you know we went out to bid which is great but if you look down the line at all three

of these proposals they're they're different we're not necessarily comparing apples to apples so this is the specif the specifics of the proposal really actually where is the actual proposal know you got a 224k units and one that has a 9k and a 24. i mean it's that's quite a bit of difference there and therein lies the issue that we have had discussions with and calvin mostly with the vendors if you look at them and and i appreciate what you're saying the units that are are specked out note that a hot water heater has been added you are correct but you didn't ask why they just told me why we're going to save electricity we heat that 24 7 hot water right now there's no need for that nor do we need a 50 gallon heating system 18 gallons on a timer will do the job monday through friday that we need to do for what we do here and so this again becomes an investment in reducing the cost and by adding

additional monies which are not here for insulation in the attic once this is in place you're now helping keep the heat in and reducing your cost again so is this number soup to nuts from the contractors or is this number with fluff because we're adding insulation i haven't added insulation yet i want we talked about the insulation today but these are the contractors quotes soup to nuts so all in i think you know i think this kind of goes back to the earlier conversation is that we don't have the information we need to move forward on this and you know and we do have time it's just there should be a pretty buttoned up um you know uh document this is okay for you know for to do for gis you know these are the things we're going to get for it this is how it's going to cost you know for and the same thing for it and hv it can't be well this guy said and that guy said and if we do this and we got to add that right

you know it's not it's not ready for prime time yet and that needs to be like that needs to be buttoned up and ready um by the meeting on the 28th how did they arrive at three different damages yeah that was because we didn't have it we didn't i can tell you how it's it's open to interpretation how many people are going in a room how many windows you got things of that nature so every we didn't hire like my thought was get a mechanical contractor and have something specked out for each building then go to bed yeah because right now what we're asking is he i i don't get it give us your best i thought that's what we were doing this this is i'm sorry but this is nowhere near where it needs to be then we should have started that at the beginning when we talked but mitch we've been talking about this since the beginning we we talked about the having an actual contractor come in and do a analysis of what the need was

and then taking that out to bed but in that same conversation by the end of the conversation you as a group kind of nodded your head and said if we can put down to each of these individuals and convey to them it has to be sufficient based on the standards for building that are out there heating standards then you put them together and this is how it came up we'll be glad to go back and do that but you're not going to get the work done in a timely fashion and i can't guarantee those prices beyond the next few days so and that's okay we will i i just as soon put out a request for a proposal on on mechanical engineering and let that go into that because it will take you to the fall but we don't we even with these we don't have and maybe there's but there's it's tough to make comparisons against these proposals because we don't have what their assumptions for like heat load and all that stuff was

like so if one vendor is recommending certain equipment and has made a certain estimate of need and another vendor is requiring different suggesting different equipment but as a completely different heat load calculation then something's a miss there right it may ask is this for just the town hall or is this i'm assuming it's for both based on the number because if it's for both that's where really my kind of like triggers stand up on this as far as um how many york two-ton ac coils how many um york 60 000. are you replacing both of these and this is just the york in the town hall and it's also the forest hot air and i'm assuming there's two of them right yeah there's two ac units

getting the 24 and we're getting the 18 over here or the fire stations get the way i would read that based on what you said but i can't extrapolate that off of this is the fire station's getting a 24 and an 18k and this building is getting a 40k one furnace up in the attic and up one york two-ton ac coil out back two furnaces two premises and two acres two two york two tons and two uh heating units for this particular building i think i think what we have is a combination of both i think what what you're looking for is having it broken down next to each building with all of this information i think you have to i think the town is going to be recovering yeah yeah and that's all it is everybody's the two existing heating units existing ac units but they they couldn't did they know we were going to upgrade the installation that's going to make a hell of a difference yeah it will huge well i mean that's

yes yes i agree and disagree but i mean that's not really the i mean just because the ambiguity with one's calling for in your 260k which is 120k of heating for this i don't know 1600 square foot building versus 80 k of heating i mean most 2 000 square foot houses have 60k 70k people what's up what's up guys and i thought that's what we were going with if we weren't going to go with because we matched your defense we did talk a couple of different variants like we could just replace the existing as is but we're not doing that we have a 40k which is the existing and then we have this guy's proposing a 60k which is not the existing um and we have all different arrays so that the bid wasn't specific to say bitto 240k forced audio furnaces attic install so the way the rfq was written was is each let each vendor determine what the building needs were and that's just the way it was done how does it show the short of higher and

mechanical engineering yeah but unless it's as is you know what you have for ac units or what you have there it just creates so much ambiguity that a lay person is not going to be able to look at this and say what are we getting right that's why i did but i couldn't just pull this out because we just look at the three clubs so you you have to go pull this stuff up so for the you know the other question i would raise that's not in here is like we've talked about this numerous times where's the bid for the fire department because we know they need to upgrade their pay they need i mean that's at least eleven twelve hundred bucks minimum one one said you did have to upgrade the panel and two said you didn't so

that two of them said they could use okay did the other one know what was existing that it was there no idea lot of ambiguity here it needs to be cleaned up we will put out a request for a mechanical engineer who's capable of determining and we're going to go through that whole process and you're going to get yeah that's yeah you know i have i mean

stuff here i think i don't know if you necessarily need a mechanical engineer there you're replacing what's been in effect for x amount of years but when you're adding systems to a building such as hvac systems to the fire department which currently doesn't have hvac in it and it's a commercial space that needs to be looked at appropriately but if you're replacing apple for apple a 40k unit with a 40k unit and two new two ton units all back maybe the sear is a little better now because of the electricity upgrades in these things that's fine i don't think there's any harm in that we're not doing anything different or different use for say in this building but that building's never had ac and if we upgrade the installation it's only going to make it better well that's yeah i think that's a margin that's going to be a margin well we're talking probably three or four inches up there right now yeah i

don't know do you think that will make a difference in terms of the equipment they spec 16 inches more insulation is going to make it easier to heat and easier to cool i want to make it easier well you're not going to get any smaller than 40 thousand anyway i would make it easier to cool because the heat comes off that roof so how do we how do we salvage this where do you want to how do you want to proceed you're not comfortable with what we've provided as a summary well i guess i'm not necessarily not it's not a readable summary it's not a readable summary it's just not workable

in all the blanks on splitting them out and comparing apples to apples on the two buildings is there enough information in the bids to do that i mean i know you're saying it's all in there but yeah i able to break that out further and have you know whether it be two spreadsheets or one that shows separate buildings separate the buildings that's first person right yeah and then just separate you know i mean you know you're going to use some heat pumps and then i use some regular traditional york units and and where are they going right and is that the same as what we have i have a column there for what we have today on each building and then i would almost assume that you're gonna have to upgrade the electrical if unless the other guy is for sure knows that he doesn't need to do it or if the other guy didn't look at it and doesn't realize it yeah i'd probably i'd be comfortable with that and i don't know i'm fine with

that too i just especially if you're pulling something out put something new in i'm not expecting a huge change in the in the in the load if it although other than it going down the amps on those heat pumps aren't that much and it really comes down to if you have panel space and if they do have another sub panel out back they're probably sufficient this particular building is pretty in my opinion is pretty cut and dry you take todd's insulation i get it we can all and we'll wrap the windows and all that stuff too but what i'm getting at is if you've got a 40 ton up here calvin and you got a 40 ton over there you should be respect for spec we want to replace those to a 40 ton and if a guy says hey really you know you really should be at a 50 ton base i don't think he's going to say that 80 tons for this size building is but i think that's where there needs to be some um coordination well that but also some supporting

narrative like in the report like this should be let me finish there should be a report not a single like table that says you know this is what we did we evaluated you know the system um this is what's there now this is why we feel it needs to be replaced um and then some sort of explanation for any differences amongst what the various contractors are recommending like contract array you know recommending these two units because of xyz you know or whatever it is but um just something that lends understanding to what we're looking at here and then that is in the bids i just tried to go and pull the stuff out and try to make a little quick cheat sheet no it is yeah no i get that calibrated well but i mean you can see that you you know quite a bit about this stuff i'll i'll defer to you on that but when you're looking at heat pumps in particular and the heat pumps just singly reside in the uh fire station not

in this building two twenty firs fours 224 k's versus 124 and a 9k is significantly different that's what the two contractors came up with for the need that they thought was needed that was the way the rfq was written was to let them determine what was needed that's why i put it in so you can see this guy is saying 24. this guy's singing a 24 and this guy's saying an 18 and a 24 celebration i don't i don't want to use my own personal experience but i can tell you right now the first contractor i had in my house told me two wouldn't even touch it i now have three five total in the house excuse me six total in my house well so it's very important to know what your heat loss and your heat calcs are when it comes to the basic first design in this building where you have two ton units out back two two ton units for a total of four tons and you have 40k up in each attic that you can say we are replacing like i don't put my house out

to bid if i need a new furnace i say hey i need a new 76 000 btu furnace done that's it's been working great for 18 years it's just an old model needs to be replaced let me tell you that calvin did exactly what i thought you wanted to do so he's following my instructions and so i obviously misunderstood he attempted to put together the summary which is what you're working off of we can break it out but i want to be clear

getting a mechanical engineer you want to replace in kind with the capacities themselves well we don't have anything in kind in the fire department no and they need to have something but but i'm thinking that you can even do a a as as little as a simple calculation yourselves i mean there's this tools on the web that allow you per square foot for whether it be office space or living space or a there's a number of calculators out here because i built out a lab at one point and and the same thing i just did a quick calculation of how many bodies we had in the lab how much equipment we had a lab how much outpet output and then we i had the guy come in and he gave me a quote for an x number btu unit and i said uh yeah that's pretty close to what i have so you can get an idea of what you think you probably need based on just just freeware on on you know people like carrier and these guys do have this that you can use if you

just use that as a little rule of thumb you'll see first of all are the units we have which are sufficient for here which i'm assuming they are but you can at least get a basis for what you're yeah each of the bidders they should be able to provide you with the assumptions they made how they came up with that yeah you know like we you know and then you can look at if you've got two drastically different recommendations you can look and see if there's something really different in their assumptions and see what right passes the straight face test heat pump calculate uh excuse me heat pump providers are not always engineers a heap provider can be an electrician okay it's not the same as if somebody's got the that of a heating contractor in general i mean a lot of people got into the heat pump business you need an electrician to you know finish it up and it's it's it's not as straightforward and that is that's i

know why i think you're seeing three different professionals giving you three different answers right um but the chief would have to be involved he'd have to know how many people are coming out i mean one of the things like chief might say hey i hold three meetings a week here with 27 people in the lobby that happened particularly we had somebody in this office handle the eureka center and we got an extra unit because we said we would use this as a cooling station for up to 50 people therefore you know so i mean there's so many numbers that have to be accounted for here but if you're just replacing apples for apples old equipment for new equipment that that i don't think we need mechanical engineering or designing on especially if you haven't had an issue with it other than it's outdated itself right so this this is pretty straightforward so you're seeing the fire station getting the heat from sizing that's really all that

is left is the tv i think you know in my opinion i would i would go with like a hvac services out of westbrook or somebody like a commercial um not a residential guy as far as what that fire station is because ceiling heights are in there i mean you can drop ceilings you have big huge bay doors i don't even know what to what extent they're they're doing over there but i don't even know what the square footage is for that matter you know they came in and measured their contracts i mean they're pretty good-sized companies you know patriot mechanical and that's what garments and industrial park i actually i'm in line with the patriots and agility the abg one for the nine that 9k unless it's just to do the chief's office or something i think it was specifically just a it was a non the other two are abducted actually going to be inducted into the each other's bathrooms that one had no ducting was

just going to hang on the ball so it was just going to go in chief's office so that was the difference which is why we highlighted i think the one that we came up with at least we both agreed agility dollars for dollars parts labor warranties and the equipment that was in fact good bang for the bucks

some of their assumptions are ready so my only thing is i you know i'd pose a question because some people are going to pose this like with the fire station for example is this just for cool system right yeah then then the next question is going to be well i thought we put those heat pumps in for that to be the cooling station um yeah the uh the

one of the reasons to break them out is i i think we've kind of said well we'll do the fire station cooling because it's we can get kind of a package deal and it'll be cheaper and all that other stuff but that kind of presupposes the question on whether it should even be done at all or whether it's whether it's urgent enough that we need to do it now i mean it really to me so the only thing that needs to be done now is this building so at the time the chief had believed that that was the cooling center and then i think rich pointed out that in fact it was the eureka center i guess that changed at some point i don't know when it changed and i'm not saying it did change all that's ever been at least on my tenure on this board was a window unit over in that that would sit in the front they had a pretty decent size you know it couldn't have been i mean it was running off a wall outlet so that

would sit in the front window and they would exhaust it out to the front window that's all i've ever seen over there and maybe they had a window unit in the chief's office but i don't even remember that so it didn't it would hold that building at let's say you know maybe 78 80 degrees on a really hot hot day with the blind shot uh if the blinds are open you're gonna have a challenge of you know that's so i think never been a cooling station since it was always eureka so you do not take that back it was a cooling station and then when we put those two units in there because we have two you think about it i think we have two 36k heat pumps over and there yeah so what is that what does that equate to uh six tons i couldn't tell you i'm not they're they're they're heat pumps right so i'm just talking can we just

get a new sheet or send out the bid and the proposals and let us review them i mean it won't mean much to me i'll be honest but uh but if it means more to you oh you mean send out woody the actual copy so that way you have you have it and if you have other questions that's the best way to do it well i still think we need um a more comprehensive summary and and with the fire station in this building broken out separately that's that's how the proposals are done right yeah it's just hard to compare apples to apples because they're not at apple that's right the spreadsheet right there one's a nine one's two twenty four so it was kind of so you can see look this guy's giving us 220 forces of nine to 24. so kelvin are all the heat pumps ducted because this one abg says no well two so one of them the other two the ducted one is

goes in the attic area over the officer and is ducted into each office in the restrooms both of those both the other two companies were ducting those units wall-mounted unit out into the main uh meeting room there was no need to deduct it because it's only doing one room

i'm not an hba first ac person i thought we tried to nail this down and the package that was put together i insisted from the beginning of trying to take care of fire department as well as here because it just made sense if you're out in the marketplace and everything that goes with it so we will have to pull out from here and try to give you a better explanation and if you just don't want to do the fire department now and then i'll sever that and we'll just focus on it i don't think we're saying that i think it's up to the i think it's some of the people if they want to do the fire i have no problem using especially these other funds for doing it i think it's okay i think it's a great idea i just i just think i've been to enough of these town meetings in this town this won't get it done no this won't get it done sorry it just won't get it done and and the thing is we

for town meeting what we need is we need the um that it's not going to go over right so like here so like we might this one we might say you know to to expend an amount not to exceed i might even i might put like 60 000 on you know to account for unforeseen things that come along but we're not asking the town to approve a specific bid that's up that's up to us right that's why you got it because we figured you'd want to round out this is this is your summary but you need more information and that might and this might you know that might be enough in terms of crafting the warrant article and you say well we've got um we're still working through the bids right now they range from you know 43 to 55 um and whatever you know i think i'm gonna based on this i'd ask for 55 and then roll from there you know okay yeah whatever the number was right yeah right well suggests

right so yeah something should be done that's what i was mentioning builders and quality but the thing is you know i mean you guys have been a town meeting enough you know how this is going to work right anticipate the questions that people are going to ask and answer them in the summary that we're going to get right what are we doing why are we doing it why this not that how much is it going to cost there's at least three people i can think of just a seven block radius that work in this line of work

disadvantage unless we had a mechanical engineer or someone who's experienced enough with it to go forward i i i know but i don't i don't think the town i think we're over over playing it on the town we're just looking for replacement okay i mean i mean if if this system i don't work in this building other than twice a month i mean if the system's been working satisfactory for x amount of years you know then so be it i mean i would i would think everything is it hasn't been working well because when you get the summer heat they can't cool it quick enough and it makes it difficult and in the winter the reverse is true they can't keep up with the heating but is is that because the units are undersized or because they're not working properly one unit was completely down prior to that i can't explain because i wasn't here well that's just it right that's the assessment part that's well that's the

assessment part so what you're saying is that if we do have two units out back that are two tons each and they're not cooling this place off then something well something else is wrong because four tons for this building should be quite a bit

not a big it's not a single floor all right so are we are we good to move on from that one are we well there were two parts to this yeah part a was do you want to designate a time and date and part b is let's get a better narrative yeah what are people

comfortable with their numbers do they know what number they're going to be asking for the town do they have that figured out yet for as far as gas because this would be the meeting that we're talking to the two people who were involved wait what's the gas thing what's that i thought if we were going to a special town meeting that we were going to have to because we were going to be short on our budgets no no maybe you weren't here yeah yeah that's that's a non-issue now all right not an issue then so be it yeah that one's a never mind i think you were i think you were not here that week okay um but the um yeah the calculation was off a little bit or in terms of because it was correct me if i'm wrong you were it was we were looking at full year but it's really a partial year and you he he's confident he can cover it with what he's got silver two yeah i think the chief always said that well he said he was

40 or excuse me 60 into his budget or something two months ago um well as far as i know there's there's no that's why departments are not asking for supplemental so we're not doing anything as far as requesting any more funds other than utilizing our funds yes okay right fair enough great thank you at least as of tonight

so yeah um so then the question uh as mitch point is like timing of of um that now i think if we felt like we um and we didn't really get into the i.t number but it's the same thing with the it number it needs to be pretty clearly spelled out like what it's you know what we're spending it on and yeah and maybe you know we've got a couple of different you know two or three different bids or whatever or sources i would say so that we're comfortable with the number um

whatever the informed sources and i think that that that's probably going to be good um but uh so timing um so if we were if we had the numbers that we were all comfortable with and at least comfortable enough to frame the warrant article questions by our next meeting on the 28th um i think town meeting has to be noticed what is it at least 10 days in advance or something like that but um that's the minimum you typically be a lot more than that so what are people thinking in terms of um for instance having a special town meeting

for instance waiting till you know after labor day um you know the longer we wait the tougher it might be to get um you know get the work done as soon as we need to get it done but then on the other hand um there'll be a little bit of hue and cry about doing a special town meeting in the summer um we don't have much choice yeah yeah second week of august i think we get to the third week and we're gonna get so many people on vacation they're gonna be towards labor day closer to labor day right now if we get too close to labor day we might as well wait until the second week of september the third saturday is the 21st and that's the week before school starts and it doesn't have to be a saturday special time meeting could be on a weeknight as well um maybe you know maybe it's a good time to try that you know my i mean even if we voted on it next month or next week is contingent upon them getting my my guess is the

work you're not going to make it in time for the acs to be any the real trick here is getting yes yes october november right so even if you push it into september when people are back from vacation and and kids are back in school and people have a little bit more time on there it would be a little tougher though wouldn't it to get the contractors though at that point for heating systems aren't the bits like to put in by the end of this in september i mean they're just they're probably just there's a time limit on these numbers right now i don't think those guys are they're never there's never well i mean i think one thing that i

to the arpa funds for the hvac we have to replace the heat units anyway so we would we would have to tap into the municipal capital account and do that so part of me says that we should go ahead and you know once we have a number and a contractor book the work and then and then we'll either pay for it out of capital or or we'll or we'll get it we'll have approval to use our performance yeah that's another way to do it and i had the different numbers for the this what was the next what was the if if the work is already scheduled to be performed with the opera funds i is that i don't i don't think i don't think that's an issue okay but i don't i don't know anything about looking you know the opera restrictions vacillate yeah oh i'm sure it's like anything i get it for you know and you're gonna describe it yeah but uh if you you normally meet the second and the fourth tuesday of each month so that's the

ninth and the twenty-third the question is of september august oh august on if you don't wanna do it at all in august then yes then flip into september but time is of the essence i don't you know these days yeah and i don't know if i i i lean towards august and just at least you know getting it out there and getting the question asked i think it has to happen sooner rather than later i think it's more appropriate so you either give up the ninth which is a regular meeting night or you can do it on either the 16th which is the following tuesday or push it to a saturday or any other day in that week so let's talk let's so let's um as far as date one factor may be how what kind of turnout we might expect because like you know are we is this something we think we can do at the eureka center or do we feel like we need to get the cafeteria or even the gym at the school or what are we i was thinking uh and vets are the eureka

center i didn't think we i mean the last time we had a special time meeting i think i don't know 130 showed up i think we could do it at the european at the eureka center i'm good with that i just want to i i just want to put it out there for the board to you know find a consensus on yeah i that's i'm trying to think what the heck the topics were i think it was

auburn road yeah that was a special town meeting we had to do that for yeah didn't you moderate it yeah oh yeah it was at the eureka center yep yep then we're talking okay four years old yeah yeah okay all right so it sounds like we're eureka so we have a lot more flexibility on timing if we're gonna do it at the eureka center um what do people think of a week night versus a saturday you know we're in august so that might change the thinking on weeknight versus saturday versus april i think trying the weekend would be interesting to see you know what we do get especially in august you're probably not going to get yeah turn out on a saturday yeah i think we did do that one on a week night and i i want to say the time frame was around it was summertime if my memory serves me right yeah we got about 30 people and i think it was a thursday night if my memory this might pull out well what about a

tuesday it might have been one of our actually we might have held our meeting right after that oh yeah we might have so um week yeah well so i don't have my calendar well then the ninth is that tuesday i think that might be that might be quick in terms of for the noticing require if we don't vote until the 28th on the questions ten days would be the what about i would almost lean towards the week of the yeah that in that week the week in between that's your third week in august it's between your regular meetings it gives you that tuesday the 16th 16th

that week is good [Music] too that's just my crazy week but that's fine as long as we do it at night yeah nighttime my time is good actually better than a weekend all right you're talking about starting at like six not earlier right yeah yeah i know it'll be an evening thing yeah six or six thirty yeah regular um so um on the 16th yeah no i'm sorry i'm in yeah yes on this tuesday the 16th 16th

because that i'm up in the air whether or not i'm here that week or the next week okay and for that you know it's um it's not even critical that any board members be there right because it's a tommy so we need a moderator you know it's really it becomes jessica's show once we pick a date um i think our

you know our responsibility is is um to and for make you know make sure the public is informed about what we're doing right my only thing is this is just me we need all the criteria and we need to give the budget committee ample time to look at that's true the budget committee has to weigh in because if we go there without the bad bad no that's a good point that's a good call

well we almost need the information centered over to the chair of the budget some of the melt shoot it up the flagpole and say see what you guys formulate well the the budget committee the budget committee only responds and reviews um you know a warrant article considering that we send them for consideration right so the we would have to come up with our um our numbers first right and so then we would send them they would need you know what our you know proposal is and what um [Music] their recommendation would be either yes or no they would it wouldn't be an alternate amount correct because it's right to be a closed warrant article

if we were able to finalize the warrant articles on the 28th 26th it's the oh tuesdays the 26th i don't know where it came up the 28th but um claire's birthday that's why um 26. um then the budget committee would they'd have to meet like either later that

okay so so you know you we need to have you know you have until whatever date to give us your recommendation i mean we give them a heads up now i think that exactly for warning yeah as chair to chair say look this is coming down the pike once you tentatively plan a meeting for review yeah we'll get it to you by the end of the week on the 29th yeah i can send something to milt so he can get his committee ready show up on the 27th or 26th whatever day that is

we you know we expect to be um or that we hope to finalize the um questions on the 26th and then if they want to you know attend that meeting and get the full context of the discussion that would might be a good idea tuesday you can have the questions over to him by wednesday evening

following tuesday which is the second on the following wednesday which is the third you can post your notice right yeah and um well we could post the notice before the budget community meets we don't have to wait for that but i mean really some of these questions are for jessica um in terms of you know because she's going to she doesn't have any balance to print but we do need to you know um you know print the actual warrant and post that and get it online and making copies of the business is no big deal yeah but i do agree if in fact you invite the the budget committee on the 26th a whole lot of things are going to happen they'll get the final action by the the next day and hopefully they'll have a meeting already set up where they can unless they've provided a joint meeting where they can legally act as well that same night with you folks yeah they can have their own meeting yeah but getting it out on

if you will the following week of august first through the fifth still gives you seven nine days from the budget committee before the town meeting itself but keeping it totally open and pushing the information out as soon as the 26th becomes an effective way to deal with that yeah

all the chair of the budget committee even before the 2016 last night's select board meeting this is where we're at what we're trying to do yep they must have an england anyway so you must have an idea what's going on some of those budget committee members are some of our biggest viewers so they probably do know yeah

detailed summary report for information have it ready for the 26 appropriate and you folks have to decide whether you're going to separate them or lump them into one oh that that's let's let's talk about that you you expressed separate i think i think sometimes i agree with that the idea of one is if you have one that's controversial you're going to vote down the other two and i yeah i don't think that's appropriate here i agree i don't think i don't think it should be loaned up i think all three of them should stand on the line anybody can disagree with that no okay three separate questions definitely yeah it makes it easier to talk about yeah and get skewed yeah because i don't know can you i never know could you change that like we i'll make a motion to accept the gis in town hall we couldn't change that motion right to that yeah so you have to

yeah yeah i don't see we put them in four that's just me what's that now i would i would put them in four i would put the town on its own leg the fire department on its own like the gis and the it on its own can we separate the bids for the town office and the fire they're separate then i would agree i thought they were i thought they were one so i would agree them four questions right four questions okay anybody anybody disagree with that no no and that makes the spreadsheet easier too makes it a lot easier all right i want to be clear on this repeat the four question topics just just top um gis mapping infrastructure in it infrastructure right hvac town office hvac fire department or maybe it's just yeah it's all that changes yeah um

real quick just in regards to the it on the eureka some of that there was there was a computer that was in so how that we're talking hard drives or something somebody's computer was gone or i think you were doing that is that lumped up into that it all into the i.t and can calvin cut down the tree we're actually doing an idea that someone else had and i presume calvin's had a chance to look at i don't know but instead of cutting a tree down as long as we can create a tunnel yeah to shoot through i think i i i mentioned like can you just do low or something like that because just limb that's it limb them up to that point and we heard that the uh air fiber system is forgiving in terms of some obstacles yeah so why take the trees down when you can yeah that's that's what i meant but yeah yeah like one of my questions was in the past when we're close to buildings like sometimes calvin even with roads we

would specifically use a tree cutting company rather than public works and i just wanted a lot money for it okay in case public works didn't feel comfortable chopping a tree down next to the town hall you'll have to advise me what you want to do i don't know where they want to right i'd have to meet with them okay devon see exactly what he came up with [Music]

the hvac to improve the insulation well i think that i think that's part of the plan anyway i probably got more installation in your old house than this yeah they've not been up there i'm pretty sure about that should be added to the summary and yeah yeah so that yeah so we need to what's the full story

it's like like at some point we gotta stop adding there's nothing wrong with it so are we tentatively agreed for the week of august 15th you haven't told me if it's a monday tuesday wednesday thursday tuesday the 16th the 16th is what everyone wants yeah that sounds good uh six o'clock eureka center can that be in a form of emotion just so that i can point back to it saying that it was a motion made at this meeting to follow the procedures of setting up a special town meeting on the 16th do we need to make sure that the request i don't know as soon as it's available but we can make it available so moved which is second

i'll buy a few extra boxes of cookies next year uh i already did all right all in favor of the motion okay i think you said 6 p.m 6 p.m the 16th eureka center um because this is all kind of this timing is all contingent on being able to produce that information finalize everything at our next meeting on the 26th so are we confident we can do that because then if we are then i i want to start publicizing the special town meeting as soon as possible yeah

just just break just the maybe hvac breakdown help design the system yeah i offered about three meetings ago right i told you guys i had resources and you guys all said we got it so so i said that yeah i'm just trying to anticipate like uh questions that folks are going to ask you know i mean as crazy as my idea was about going low on the tree line if we get a quote make sure that whatever we do we get a quote for whatever number of trees need to be removed i guess as well as you know just to cover the well you know i tried that and it doesn't work ten feet off the ground for a number of reasons like whatever okay but that could be a question um yeah the contingency plan on that just i'm thinking the money part of it so that would be something to have an idea of by the time we meet on the twitter exactly right right and then the obviously we talked about extensively hvac breakout have that just

i think gis mapping you've got a cost right yes but i want to come back to the idea in the infrastructure why wouldn't we just simply add into that component the amounts that are necessary oh yeah yeah that's what i would say unexpected funds go back to the yeah yeah we're just looking for an authorization up to we're not looking we don't we don't we don't want to put like the exact number no no just make sure we have enough in there right right so yeah evan did a good job of breaking it down yeah i thought last yeah i thought it was great yeah yes he did i don't know i i think the work needs to be done on the hvac yeah but i think calvin understands what you're looking for and can do that he's got all the information yeah so i yeah of these just needs to be broken out a different way that's it need to help you yeah take care so but i think but i think by the next meeting will be also yeah but i do agree

with like we were talking earlier about maybe adding ten percent i was uh oh yeah yeah why not throw 20. yeah i mean i think we should have a because the money's all going back into the opera account anyways if we don't the price of everything rolling up so quickly it's it i agree so that's why i think as long as we have you know reasonably good ballpark figures and then tack some percentage on top of that and the questions are worded you know authorize the board to utilize our funds up to a certain amount for this purpose then we're covered yeah it gives you flexibility you might want new thermostats those look a little outdated do we have enough data on the rules and regulations even though they're a little lucid um that we can counter any questions yeah um i i will put together like a little powerpoint slide thing on on opera and like what it is what you can do with it what you can do with it and then that's

something we can probably put out on the website and hopefully um get uh answer some questions ahead of time or even have it as a thing to use at the meeting we could do that because it's it's not because they've loosened the restrictions so much it's not as complicated as it was but there were probably some things that people some people ask well why can't we just you know offset the operating budget with it or why can't we just rebate taxpayers though there are things that are expressly spelled out that you cannot do and and getting that information out there would just head all those questions off i pass so all of them well you'll never get them all

that i hope so yeah right okay moving on uh 7d was a um application yes and this was at the amvets for a wedding is that right yes should be right there i also have the 7e now which is the lrap report which is real easy okay

the application for byo permit for april stone and joseph jakes so moved any discussion all in favor get a second oh did i not get a second i'll second it okay rich seconds thanks um thank you any discussion all in favor okay party on i always want to know how people know to get that permit like most people would just have the party well if they've hired a bartender yeah the bartender will that's what it is yeah when we rented the eureka center there was a note on the application yeah oh i guess that because you're renting them like amvets maybe maybe ambassadors may be telling them hey if you're gonna do this event here you've got to have this license yeah um okay uh and so 7e lrap yes each year you receive money for local roads improvements and they then look for a report as to what you've spent that money on and potentially what you're going to be doing in the future and i believe in the

pile there is an completed it and we have more than done the i've got it right here uh we've come up with three items for which lrap was utilized beaver woods road 44 000. harley woods road 40 200 and puritan lane at 36 000.

our lrap funds that came in were 55 024 so we've more than exceeded and that's okay so what we need to do is have you approve the elve wrap report for fy 2022 and we'll have three of you two of you or three of you the chair and one other person signed off on it

i'll second it 30 seconds all in favor oh unanimous okay we plow the state roads they don't give us enough money to do it but then we have to justify that we spent the little money they did give us on roads yeah accountability comes in all sizes state roads cost more than that correct all right [Music] okay um i guess i should slow down here all right uh consent agenda entertain a motion to accept the consent agenda as presented so move is there a second second joe seconds all in favor okay hey upcoming meetings are so our next regular meeting is july 26 tuesday 6 30 here at the town office

at this point i will move us into executive session um pursuant to mrsa4056a discussion of personnel matters relating to the town manager search i'll second that joe seconds uh all in favor okay we are in executive session i'm sorry i was