TranscriptPlanning Board Meeting ~ June 1, 2016

who was it before Idola who owns CMP. Oh. Um, isn't there somebody else? Florida Light Power. Oh, she used to maybe she used to work for somebody like that. She ended up getting a job down at Disney World. Oh, she's like always posting pictures of her and her kids are going all kinds of fun stuff.

Exactly. just the four. [laughter] and I was like, "No, no, Mindy [clears throat] wasn't there." All right. So Mickey, people think you're the football player with that T. You could read my handwriting. Okay. You I had it way before the

uh Yeah, but we Yeah, we got past that. I mean, not live, but I did watch the video. Did you really? Yeah. That's pretty funny. She fast forwarded. I did fast forward through some of it. [laughter] Shocker. Yeah. It was like two and a half hours.

Did that get appealed? They have expressed intent but have not yet filed. You know what? Be better. I heard somebody. Yeah. I was trying to get them because there's another appeal going next week and I tried to get them to get it in in time to do it next week.

Do both together. Yeah. They weren't ready. So I What's the appeal next week? It's a appeal on a stop work order from that should be you should you should uh sell pay-per-view for that. [snorts] [laughter] I'm trying to be careful here. I'm glad that don't encourage him. [laughter]

Don't get him in trouble. You know, I just want to make sure that his he's can he, you know, his he's all of his rights are taken care of and he can do what he needs to do. You know, that's all. really concerned about at this point. So

be extremely surprised should anything surprise me. But you know I mean he when he filed for his appeal he asked for a stay. You ask him to go to meeting start a stay of your stop work of the appeal. Oh he filed and said no at the same time. And I so I just I just immediately forwarded it to I said you're gonna if we don't do it now you're gonna lose your right to appeal and I'm not extra

extra. You didn't give me extra off the table just cuz they interfere with it. Thank you. [laughter] Oops. Yeah. So this one it's just been this very strange experience through the whole thing. It's that's not me. [laughter]

I'm sorry. I'm not paying attention, am I? Jeez. Does he talk? That was my copy. That's your coffee? No, go ahead. I think I have the original here. So, I've got I've got the real goods. You got the real goods. I get the real good.

Well, we ready to get right on time. We're ready. We're ready to go live. Okay. Uh, call this meeting to order. Uh, it's first time of year, so June 1st planning board meeting. Uh, let's have the pledge of allegiance. States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Very good. Uh any amendments to the agenda? Do you want to review the do we want to do that now? Finally. Uh do you want to do this at the end since we don't have anyone waiting? Yeah. Um let's go on to accepting minutes uh of uh last month's meeting.

I don't think we have We don't have them, do we? They're tabled. Okay. So, she has to put it off the list. Yep. I have no computer. They're tabled. Oh, no computer. How do you do that? All right. Um, that's what the table is for.

Continuing business. Uh, Dan and Michelle, you are up. there is less than 500 yards over that banking that they have pushed. So, I don't feel as though we need to even be here. And I got some information from Grover. Grover said they felt there's less than 500 yards over that bank. And so this is between me and Paul instead of you guys.

Yeah. Yes. Well, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You should have a copy of that at least in there. Because it says 150 plus less than 500. 150 was for the driveway. It's not fill. It's crushed rock, but which is I mean that's still material that you're trucking into your the same property.

So, do we know how much it that stuff is leaving? Is that for what? That stuff is leaving the the property. The crushed rock. Yeah. Access roads coming back out. It's coming back out. Okay. Yeah, that is coming out. that?

And that's what I've been saying right along. It's less than 500 yards there. Well, the same thing now that they got all their paperwork. were brought in. They didn't say because when I talked to when I talked to uh Mr. Grover, he had already he told me that they'd already hauled more than 500 yards. So, this

Well, I think it's because he was under the gun. Uhhuh. And because they pulled the what do they call? Yeah, they pulled all the slips for that whole week from the 22nd through the 27th, which we didn't get it for the whole week.

Okay. And they he said out of out of the whole week from the 22nd to the 27th or 9th, whichever is that Friday, they called out from the bridge 2,000 yards, but we didn't get it all week. We only got it. They did the driveway on Thursday and then I think you came out on Monday or that's when you contacted him and they didn't bring any after that.

Okay. Well, my major concern of this was the permit by rule. Yeah. And the stabilization of the site. So other than that, so what zone is this in? The rural residential is also in a um this particular part would be in the in the resource protection.

I have a question, Paul. Isn't all of Durham rural residential? No, there's a growth district downtown and then there's a there's overlay districts. There's a aquafer. I didn't I was just thinking rural and commercial. That's where my thought was. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. It would be nice though. Be nice to have a commercial. M yeah. So it is in resource protection or it's not in resource it's close enough to the to the it's 300 it's more than 300 feet from Pinkham Brook [clears throat] because our house is 250 ft from Pinkham Brook.

Okay. The um All right. So it's not in the resource protection district. It's in it's in the resource protection. It's not it's not in the resource protection zone. It's in the It's in the zone, not the district. I hate this resource protection stuff. Um, the determination by Jeff Clinic from the DP is that the billing was being done within 75 ft of a stream.

It was not within 25 ft. So, they didn't need a special permit, but they did need a permit by rule, which was why the after the fact permit came through that they applied for. Um, and then the site was stabilized. the slope graded back. So

So it's Shoreland Resource Protection but not Durham's Resource Protection District. Correct. Got it. Thank you. Shorland zoning hadn't been incorporated into our zoning law. I could find it. So we're clear that the site stabilized that we're below 500.

I'm not going to dispute the 500 claim. I have no way of knowing. I you know if if Grover says so and that's what they did that's what they did. I I didn't see tallies in here from their weekly things but I don't my part the important part to me at this point is the stabilization of the site and and no further detriment to this to the stream.

That's right. That's all I I at that point I would I won't dispute the Grover's claim there was less than 500 and therefore it becomes so given that it is in the rural residential district and there's less than 500 cubic yards of fill brought in. I will move that we do not have jurisdiction over this application.

Second. All those in favor? Okay. probably will need to come and see me so we can get your fee returned. It has to go on a warrant, so it might take a week or two to come through, but so as soon as you can get But what do you have to do as far as approving or disapproving? I mean, it's already there, but I

I will issue a letter. So, if you want to come and see me tomorrow or Friday or as soon as you can make an appointment, we'll get together with all that and get it cleared up. Can I ask that we do it next week? Yep, that's fine. because we're Not to be rude, but we're on vacation this week, so we came home from We were out of town, but we came back for the meeting.

Sorry, that's okay. It It happens. Yeah. No, next week is fine. Okay. Don't wait too long, but whatever you need to Monday. May Monday, I could be here. All right. Great. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, wrap.

Okay, we'll take [laughter] There's no one else out there. Anyone? Hey. Hey. We would like to turn that um Master bedroom over the garage into an apartment. [snorts] It's just a so they wouldn't have to flip through their

Yes. You want the checklist? Say there's an extra checklist. Checklist, too. Does she want Does she want this? Juliet and I can share right here. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. There's more here. Oh, be keeping the checklist. Is there more checklist? Have we got enough checklist? I thought I

checklist. Lots of checklist. Lots of I don't have [laughter] I can do it. Yep. Okay. Mindy will be doing it. Is there an extra one still or can you send one back? A checklist. What? I don't know. I probably got ext. This is just a page for my ordinance related to accessory apartments. Paul just printed it out for our reference.

Okay, I'm ready whenever you're ready. Sure. Go. No. I understand you want to build a accessory apartment, right? The existing building is or the room is already there. I just need to put in a door and a stove and a sink

and isolate the stairwell. And isolate the stairwell. Yes. Thank you. One or two? Yes. It's a studio apartment, so basically for one person, but you know, might be a couple. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. Roughly 22 by 40. How much? 880 square ft

18 by 28 and then another 12. So that's 40. is that okay? Yes. How many square feet? You said 22 by um 784. Is that what you have? Did I add it wrong? Well, it's it's a cape, so you took off 67 for actual squid, right? actual living area.

What's the size of this of the apartment again? 794 The width? Well, it says here um Oh, wait a minute. No, that's 24 by 28. And then there's another 12 ft. So, it's 40. Another 12 ft in which direction? Into and over the existing house. the 24 or 28T way

28T way. So it's 40 24 by 40. at 18 ft wide, right? And then 28 plus I assume that that's 12. The the jutted out one. Yeah. Yeah, that's another 12. So that's actual that's the actual footage you Right. The stairwell goes up kind of where that line is, which will be

Yes. Oh, what? Why did one say 18 and one says 24? Well, cuz the garage is 24, but the above room above it. So, there's knee walls on each side. The actual living room. So, it's actually 18 by 40. Right. Right. Yes. Got it. It's got 720 ft.

Yeah. Notorious. Terrible. 1720. So the main house is So it looks like there's 1780 on the first floor and probably less than 784 on the second, right? Um so a total of 2564. The rest of the house is one floor, correct? Correct.

You have living area down the cellar. Correct. I do have Yeah, it's a finished basement. So So that's twice as much space. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Except you utility room. You must have a utility room there. I do have a utility room down there. Yeah.

So, you're looking at what? 26 by 58. And then does that extra bedroom down basement, too? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you know firsthand about that? [laughter] Yep. A fully executed and signed copy of the application for conditional use. We've got that.

Yes. A site plan with date, scale, and north point drawn at a scale sufficient to allow review of the items listed under the approval criteria, but at not more than 100 ft to the inch scale for that portion of the total attractive land being proposed for development. When practical, a standard size sheet 24 by 36 shall be used for all plans. The plan and application shall show show and contain the following. Do I do we consider that a check off and then go down to a

Yeah. For what she's doing No. Tell me you and Todd had this. What? What are we cons? What? What? Tell me that you and Todd had this whole back and forth thing going. Oh, I'm sorry. I forgot. [laughter] What are we considering?

I didn't know. I didn't know he was the chairman. So, I don't know. We think What are we considering as the site plan? quite a few little drawings. Yeah, I mean this is as close as the number. Yeah, the pages that are all separated I'm having a hard time following. So

number four D for I all in order [laughter] and numbered. Oh, I see. Let's see. G H. I'm not smart enough for this. Some of them are. Okay. Yeah. I [clears throat] And I had highlighted them because I only thought I had to make one copy. [laughter]

So, I have the highlighted version if you would like. All right. So maybe we can sort of like these four pages the site plan. Okay. Yeah. Just go ahead. Right. Yeah. Okay. Even when I have engineer jobs sometimes you have to do that.

We'll rely on the engineer for this. Well then you may have to go back a1 revision seven. After a few weeks you get through the plans. Yeah. All right. Owner's name and address, the name of the engineers or surveyors or both preparing the plan. Um,

so that would be me and it's on this one. I'm not. [laughter] Okay. Well, that's not really a site plan. That's that's a location or a No, that's the plan. Well, that's the plan of what I plan on doing. She just kept getting closer and closer as she went on. [laughter] Okay. Um I'm I'm going to move to wave

the requirement of an engineer surveyor. Yeah. I'll second. All those in favor? Uh [laughter] one of these pages and call it good. Does that work? Yep. Okay. So Paul's going to write her name and address on the official copy.

if that is enough. But I because this is going to run with the map and lot anyway, right? Yep. You want me to put her name on there? Sure. All right. Yes, please. Okay. Names and addresses of all abiding property owners. Applicant shall also include a copy of the abutter signed return receipt notices or shall submit a signed acknowledgement of receipt by the abutters. Yes, that's B. That's 4B. [laughter]

There we go. Y complete sketch map showing general location of the site within the town is required and one above. That's 4C. I think we're close enough that one. under the control of the owner applicant regardless of whether all or part is being devolved at this time.

Do you own any otherbody? No. Okay. So, that's not applicable. Okay. Zoning classifications of the property and the location of zoning district boundaries. If the property is located in two or more zoning district or absuts a different zone and and of any aquifer protection district or resource protection rural district boundaries.

I saw that somewhere that's on the main part of the the main application has um the zoning district and the overlay district. Do we have the aquafer protection boundaries drawn on here at all? We have this. We have this. Okay. Where?

Well, if you look at the next page, this one. It's a tiny spot right there. Lot 27. Right off in Route 9. Which page are we on? Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. And then there's a bigger section here. The 27? I can't tell on this map where

it's that. and Route 9? Yes. Completely in aquafer protection. No, I don't believe it is. just a corner, but I have to This is Is this the newest? The problem is we're never You're in the pink where the circle here somewhere.

Nope. to your west. You're right. [laughter] This she is actually completely in the aquifer, but it's a little it's almost like in here. No, if you go the other way. Go over here. Yeah. By Pound Road. No, keep going. Pine drive. So, it's going to be in here somewhere.

Pine Route 9. Right in the corner. Pine Route 9. [snorts] That's not helpful. here. Is pine there? It is there. It doesn't The words are there, but the delineation of the road and lots are not. So maybe the word is the road. Well, it's it's obvious from the tax maps as well as the red outline, they don't seem to be the same.

No. Okay. So, I'm I'm uncertain as to whether or not the lot is actually in the zip maps changed in 2011, I think. Yeah. I'm not sure these have changed, but the tax maps haven't been updated to reflect. So based on the tax red line within the aquifer but based on that they're not the same. So I'm not certain.

So if we choose a review with the aquifer in mind and she complies in it then we've kind of gone the most conservative approach to it. Right. Correct. And under the circumstances that the consideration for Aquafer is the wastewater

system and because her system has been set up for her previous business, but the scope of her previous business has been reduced, the septic system is not changing to satisfy the new circumstance. So any detrimental effect to the aquifer, it's gone. I mean essentially in my understanding of the aquafer district and what it's about is wastewater treatment and penetration into the aquifer. So they reduce the increase the square footage of the lot size and reduce to reduce the runoff.

Yep. We'll say that's complete. the bearings and distances of all property lines of the property to be developed and the source of this information. The board may require a formal boundary survey when sufficient information is not available to establish on the ground all property boundaries or zoning classifications as set forth in section 5.

sufficient information. We looks like we've got property lines. How big is this lot? Two acres. Two acres. and it was survey further, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's not for the subdivision. subdivision? No. Okay. No. My official address is Hollowell Road. The subdivision is Pineal Drive.

Okay. So, we don't have to worry about any covenants established with development. Great. [laughter] Lucky you. [clears throat] Wouldn't be our issue. The location last [laughter] the location of all building setbacks required by this ordinance.

Yep. So, can I can I ask again in section D as far as the building classification? Did we determine that that was complete? Yes. Yes. As complete as it can be apparently based on the fact that we have conflicting account information.

Yeah. I didn't know if you wanted to state that it's between the aquifer map and the tax maps. It's unclear as if there's any encroachment on the Aqua. I think what we should do is she's got aquifer protection on her application

application. So we should evaluate it as such and if it turns out it's something different then okay thank you we should have another conversation the location dimensions and ground floor elevations of all existing and proposed buildings on the site

about the sea level. Yeah, I remember 67. I do remember seeing it written on here. I look like I'm missing something. Google. The world on Google. Actually, I know it wasn't Google. I just I guess I did Google it. I said where is Durham as far as sea level go?

[clears throat] Thank you. [cough] Excuse me. Yeah, it's 6625 or something. Okay. Y the location and dimensions of driveways, parking and loading areas and walkways existing and proposed. Got the right of way on there. So the right of way is also your driveway. The rightway is not my driveway. Supposedly it's the neighbor's driveway. But there is I use it. They use it. We're

friendly. Yes. [snorts] range road. Range road. Hound road. Hound road is a range road and it continued right out through rangeway leading to the Harry Davis road is at the other end of Bowie Hill right comes out on the corner of

Hill and Davis nice [laughter] eventually just keep walking we're good with that yes location of intersecting roads or driveways within 450 ft the site. Yeah, it's pretty much Pine Mill Drive in the rightway and the people across the street. Except for dwelling units not using a common subsurface disposal system, location and dimensions of all provisions for water supply and wastewater disposal, including a soil test taken pursuant to the requirements of the main state plumbing code and a complete description of soil conditions, type of subservice or other wastewater disposal system and draft plumbing permit application for dwelling units using their own individual subsurface disposal system. A preliminary soil test under the main state plumbing code must be provided. All applicants shall include evidence of distance of water supply to wastewater disposal system and evidence of volume of water available to

satisfy the needs of the proposed use including for fire protection. So here's the deal with the subsurface wastewater. There's an HH200 in there. The HH200 is slightly undersized for the proposed use. The main state plumbing septic code subsurface wastewater code uh chapter 241 I think does allow for a 10% variation in the requirement for subsurface waste water. You're within 10% as far as they're concerned you're compliant. So, her system had been sized for her previous daycare usage, but she went from a I believe it was a 12

12 licensed for 12 to license for six. The license for six. So, she's currently only licensed for six. The system was built to to take care of 12. So, in regards to her proposed use, she falls within that 10% margin even though she's a little bit short. So, the concern I have is the daycare conditional use was approved for 12, right?

Correct. But the state license is not, but there's nothing on our end preventing her from sizing back up to 12. Oh, other than my assurance that it's never going to happen. [laughter] condition that the license cannot be expanded to the original 12 allowed based on the the new use.

Yeah. without previous approval by the board. So, but it's still slightly undersized for the six plus the it's it's within the 10% allowable margin, but yes, it's just very slightly under. Okay. What's the 10% allowable margin? Where does that come from?

From the state plumbing code, the the subsurface wastewater chapter 241. And I and I have to admit that Bonnie is the one who said who who cited that for me. I did not look it up personally to verify, but because I just kind of trust her,

which I have. I had printed off a text from her, but she Okay, well, we're still on application. It's complete, right? We've got information. We've got information. [laughter] location of open drainage courses, wetlands, stands of trees and other natural features with a description of such features to be retained and of any new landscaping planned. Any buffer errors require this ordinance will also be shown on such plan.

description is what's there. Okay, I got you. The little swirly things. Those are trees. Sure. You don't want to open a landscape architecture business out of that space. [laughter] version, It's almost came separate. I've got a bunch of packets. There you go. That was it. It was all stapled. Sorry.

Oh, I'm sorry. Mine's all together. So, it should be at the end of one of them. That one. This one. Yeah, that one. Not very. Oh, no. You got a hole. You'll see it. You'll see the trees. I want to see them for myself. There you go. [clears throat and laughter]

Well, you would if you had the color version. They look good. What? Yeah. puns, I think. Yeah, they are. [laughter] That's what you get when you have someone who runs a daycare put together. Okay, kids. They're all handdrawn.

They're perfect. They're beautiful. It's just a work of art. The direction of drainage across the site, both existing and proposed. Did anyone else? There is existing drainage. There is existing drainage. So, is this a requirement we need to be concerned with given an existing structure?

Yeah, I think it's not a plug. Really? Thank you. It's not like you're on a hill. Fine. No. No. 45° hill. All right. We will mark that at a Hey, Paul. Are you the one who makes this check sheet? Yes. Am I going to do it?

Did you make this? I did. Can you put like the headers? I'll fix each one. Location and dimensions of existing and proposed signs. And there's no signage. No signage. Nothing that's already there for the daycare. No. was there. Took it down.

Okay, we'll call that an in. Location and dimensions of any existing easements and copies of existing covenants are added restrictions. So, you got that right away. That's on there. No restrictions. Mean the driveway. Mhm.

But part of her driveway is on the hallway, right? Is that correct? And part of it's on the roadway. So whether or not she has ement for the rightway is that relevant if she has well but it's shown either way so it's there.

Okay. So unless there are any other easements or restrictions call that complete. Yeah. Location and type of exterior lighting. I know we did have that. Oh yes R. Yeah that's the same one as the um above sea level thing.

containment of any hazardous materials or petroleum products in excess of 50 gallons intended to be stored or used on the site. right? Hazardous. [laughter] You'd have to determine how many going to be how many a day? [laughter]

Does it add up to 50 gallons? So I don't think that's not that's not applicable. Okay. Utility plan showing in addition to provisions for water supply and wastewater disposal location and nature of electrical, telephone and other utility services to be installed on the site.

Are you going to separate electrical? No. Well, she's even done utility drawing. But I did draw you a utility map. [laughter] So I guess that's that's including the satellite dish. I mean that's including the satellite dish and the leech field and the electrical line going to the pump housing and all that good stuff.

So [laughter] it's complete. She gave it to us. Yeah. A planting schedule key to the site plan. Plan plan. Thank you. and indicating the general variet sizes of trees, shrubs, and other plants we planted at the site. That's not applicable. No.

And a copies of applicable state approvals and permits, including but not limited to any applicable state highway entrance permit provided, however, that the board may approve conditional uses subject to the issuance of specific state approvals and permits where it is determined that it is not feasible for the applicant to obtain them at the time of conditional use.

NA, is your is your state license? My state license isn't there? Yes. My daycare license. Yes. Well, but it's not relevant. Septic design. It is if it's relevant to the number of people it can Oh, the septic. Oh, yeah. anticipated beginning and completion dates.

We do have that. Mhm. the development of time schedule for construction and sufficient financial information to determine the applicant's financial capacity to meet air and water pollution control standards and other standard and criteria contained herein.

Yes. Yeah. The following submissions indicate an adequate financial capacity. Letter of commitment from a financial institution or funding agency for the specified amount of funds. The amount necessary to finance development in conformance herewith or their use or the most recent corporate annual report and supporting documents indicating sufficient funds to finance development in conformance herewith.

evidence indicating availability of the unencumbered funds sufficient to finance development in commerce here with when the developmental personal finance project provided thanks there's limited site improvements which would be our concern so

complete all good a detailed description of any proposed of the proposed conditional use how operate and any facts the applicant wishes to bring to the attention of the planning board including information on financial capacity, neighboring water supplies, design of the project, and other information needed to demonstrate compliance with approval criteria guidelines and standards set forth below. The description will indicate how the proposed use will meet each of the general applicable performance standards of this land use ordinance. In addition to the application material required, the planning board may require the applicant or others to undertake studies were deemed necessary or desirable to protect the public convenience, safety, health, and welfare when considering the application. I would say that's complete.

complete. One second. What was your favorite? reading? Who's doing the reading? And who's doing the writing? I can do the reading. And that one to write on that one. Yeah. to read the water or air pollution. I move to find this will not result in undue water or air pollution.

I she's just adding a dwelling. All those in f re reasonable for uh foreseeable needs of the proposed use including fire protection will not cause an unreasonable burden on the existing water supply if one is to be utilized. This criteria shall be include use of the acryer and the applicant much so that the choose will not harm the wells of those currently relying on the set aquifer.

Todd, there is a Dory did submit bindings in your package. Yep. I believe they should be in your package. They're right after the application criteria. if you would just like to read hers and consider accepting one. I don't know if there's some conflict between what you think she's presented versus.

them prove a criteria done. That way you don't have to write. [laughter] Um is 40 gallons a minute enough for Yeah. Oh yeah. [laughter] Oh, the well is washing. [laughter] All right. It's a drove drilled well only 11 years old, 120 ft deep and producing 40 gallons of it.

So, I will move to adopt the proposed finding. Second. All those in favor? uh will not cause unreasonable so soil erosion reduction of the capacity of the land to hold the water. So it's a dangerous unhealthy condition may result the applicant uh tells us since there's no onside construction taking place should have no effect on the soil or the landed on the land around the set construction.

I will move to adopt the proposed binding. I'll second. I see there's another in favor. Uh number four will not cause the highway of public road conjection or unsafe conditions with respect to use of the highway or public road existing or proposed landing which will add up to two more automobiles coming or going from the driveway onto Hollow Road.

I will move to adopt the proposed meeting. I'll second. All those in favor? sewers disposal conformity of the state plumbing code and all the local regulations. The applicant has spoken spoken with Bonnie Cobb the slow cider bail evaluator the septic system two tanks with the pump station and a 20x 64 field falls within 10% plus or

minus needed for the apartment as allowed by state law. So, I will move to adopt the proposed finding with the condition that um the current inhome daycare not be expanded past six children. Second that. I third that. your

previous conditional use permit. understand that part too. Okay. All those in favor. development will have adequate fire protection. Um the applicant will be um be uh including wired electrical smoke detectors, battery operated smoke detectors, and a fire extinguisher. Is there a fire pond or anything near?

It's just up the road. Like 3/4 of a mile up the road. Too close. Too close to the fire station. Got it. One one mile exactly from the corner. You can use our fire pond. Where's your fire pond? Patriot way. Oh, okay. Even closer.

All right. Then I will um move to adopt the proposed finding with the addition that it's only a mile from the fire department. fire station. I'll second. All those in favor? Number seven will not have an undue adverse effect on the scenic and natural beauty of the area, aesthetics, historical sites, and rare and irreplaceable natural areas into deer wintering areas. Uh identify the main department of fish and wildlife or other agencies or public rights for physical and visual access to water bodies. Um this is uh the applicant is um

telling us the construction is being done on an already established home so there's no adverse effect on the existing area. I will move to adopt the proposed finding. I'll second those in favor. Uh number eight is it conforms to the town's comprehensive plan and all other applicable town ordinances.

Have to wait on that. Yeah, we're going to have a chat about that in a minute. Um, number nine, uh, the applicant has adequate financial and technical capacity to meet the standards required by this ordinance. Um, the total renovation is less than $5,000. The applicants include a bank statement that shows that they're adequate funds to the project and they'll also be doing a lot of the work themselves. I will move to adopt the proposed finding.

A second. within 250. Hold on. Hold on. We're install here. Yeah. You can't do the work yourself as far as the electrical and the plumbing. You can do the carpentry, but electrical and plumbing you're not allowed to do yourself because it's not your residence.

Okay. Okay. as just to make sure that we Yeah. I mean, I was just installing cabinets and doing drywall. That's all. Okay. [laughter] That's a code enforcement. really fast. I couldn't catch. [laughter] Well, you made a funny noise.

I was trying. I was What was that noise? And it was next. [laughter] Uh so um uh uh there are no lakes, ponds, rivers, streams within 250 ft of the second construction. But isn't there a little Yeah, I think is it on? Isn't there a stream? Wasn't there a stream on that? I feel like it was a stream.

It's a little stream when the snow melts. Oh, it's There's a boat. Right here. And where is that located? It's not shown on the tax map. It's on that map and it's on that map. It's on the back side of Pine. Yeah, the back side of Pine Null.

The other side. Her lot is right here. Yeah. You mean this side of Pine? Out in the woods. out in the woods somewhere. So, at least 250 ft away. Okay. And the road's 50 ft wide. And my property is 250 ft wide. Okay. I wasn't aware there was a stream out there.

Me neither, but anyway. Not much of a stream. Apparently, it's not much. Um, so I So, here's the deal on this one, too. If it comes up in the future, this is a this is a shoreline zone So this the stream classification under shoreline zone is fairly specific and I'm not sure that even though it's marked on there whether or not it's actually marked on the geological survey map where two streams combined into a

single bed. It probably wouldn't meet that classification. We should have left shortly and separate. not apply. I'll second with existing activities adversely affect the quality of quantity of groundwater. Uh the applicant has enclosed a copy of the septic design in the well and surrounding area. It appears it won't

according to the applicant. additional issues with aquafer protection under the um the groundwater ordinance? We have a groundwater ordinance. Aqua called groundwater page 48. Um, Yeah, I think we moved it in the groundwater ordinance is empty.

Say page 48 um is listing the different land uses under atmospheric. Yeah, I think it's a permanent allow use or conditional use. Conditionally use, right? Yep. but I know it's in [snorts] So, In our performance standards, there is water pollution on page 56 and water supply on page 56.

item five, aquifer protection overlay district, which is what the groundwater ordinance covered, gets into minimum lot size um as well as the calculations for our groundwater ordinance did. Regular maintenance vehicles and heavy equipment is not permitted in the groundwater protection district that's under timber harvesting.

Okay. So there's nothing addressing. Okay. Um then I will move to adopt finding 11. I'll second all those in favor. based on uh Federal Emergency Management Agency and flood boundaries and floodway maps and flood insurance rate maps. The site is in a floodprone area. Um if the site is of the proposed use or any part of it is in such an area the applicant will determine under your flood elevation flood hazard boundaries within the site. The proposed use shall include a condition of the plot approval require the principal structures and any lots where the proposed use is to be conclude conducted and shall be constructed with their lowest floor 3 ft above the 100year flood elevation. The wall will be constructed and permitted under the town's flood hazard ordinance. The applicant tells us the property is not in a flood zone.

So I move to find that this criteria does not apply. Let's just say it hasn't flooded in 30 years. That's not good enough. [laughter] Going for the 100. Um all those in favor I'll second. Okay. Uh 13 will not have an adverse effect on spotting grounds, fish, aquatic life, birds, and other wildlife habitats because there are no pawns, service, lake, streams. Uh our applicant does not foresee it having an impact on any of that.

Um I will move to adopt the finding with the addition that it also won't have an adverse effect on wildlife because it's an existing residence. There are small children running around scaring off the wildlife. Yes. complete.

Um, bill. Oh, yeah. Mindy second, [laughter] you guys are getting ahead of me. If we roll right along, um, will not cause uh noise or glare or vibration or disturb to disturb the peaceful enjoyment of the adjacent property. Yeah, we can tell those no one and do do noise, photo, glare, or vibration uh due to the remodeling of the master suite of the studio apartment.

So, where is the new light going? [clears throat] The outside light. Yeah, one of the windows is being removed. The door side I saw the picture. I have to point to her. Point to her. Point it. Point it out to her. Point it out to her.

So which But I don't know which where that is. That's the side of the house. This side of the garage. So like if I'm looking at this drawing. Oh my gosh. Is it on that side? Yep. Okay. Right there. So is that going to cause an issue for these people over here?

An outside light. Yep. There is a buffer on that side. Lindscape buffer. Yeah, they're small. Plus, their house is like way up in the woods. Okay. They don't actually live. They don't live across the way. Okay. Maybe just a house light,

right? It' just be an outside house light. low wattage bulb in that. Yeah. Put a green one in. [laughter] proposed binding. I'll second. All those in favor will now place the uh number 15 will not place an excessive burden on the ability of the town to provide municipal, governmental or educational services. The applicants say there will be no burden.

I'll move to adopt the proposed finding. A second. [laughter] Back to this page that has the requirements for accessory apartments. Well, well, is there more? Yeah. Okay. I think so. Um, this is one piece. Yes, that's one piece. I'm not giving you the complete initial.

Well, did we did we determine with our square footage math that it meets on this first? don't know what I don't know what you're going to say. So, I like to cut to the chase. Um [laughter] I don't know that we have enough unless somebody tells me otherwise. I don't know that we have enough um

or minimum density per dwelling unit. I think it's probably the density that gets us into a bad spot. So you guys tell me. So that's page 41. Yes. rural residential, right? I think it's two plus two. Growth district. Oh, well that may change things.

No, it does not. Just kidding. So that's page 40. Minimum density per dwelling unit. An accessory apartment is defined as a dwelling unit is one per two acres. So houses in existence can convert to two family units at 45,000 ft for the second unit and 90,000 ft for the first. But we're still don't have enough room.

But this isn't technically a two family unit. It's an accessory apartment. But then you still don't I mean you still got two dwelling units and so without that qualification bit difficult for because it's unclear here that that the allowance for accessory apartment is separated as an as a specific identification but this is actually talking about two family homes. Um

and I can't and you can't classify a accessory apartment as a family loan unless a husband and wife are considered a family. Um right now we're only one accessory shall be permitted per aquifer is like shall be made part of the main residence attached to the main residence by fully enclosed breezeway not exceeding 20 ft in length

or located in a separate building whose primary function is not as a dwelling unit such as a garage or barn. shall be permitted per lot, right? which would be an accessory. But I don't think that changes one accessory apartment per lot. That's big enough.

It's not. We don't have 90,000 plus 45,000. No. What's 90,000? Two acres. Just over two acres. Mhm. The additional 40 would be almost an additional acres. You need close to almost a 3acre lot. You're very very close to it.

Mhm. Absolutely. A little more. 40,000 under. I think you said 40350. I thought you said 45. Oh, you're right. No. Yes, you're right. It's over. And so what Paul you're saying is that multif family since it's defined differently in our youth use youth table since it's separated out from multi multif family and accessory partner are separated out

in my mind yes that what we're looking at here is differently so the issue I have is it's minimum density per dwelling unit and then if you go to accessory apartment well dwelling unit but also to accessory apartment is specifically defined as a separate secondary dwelling unit.

I knew you were going there. I'm reading it now. I'm not out. Sorry, man. I'm always happy to be outvoted. I know, but I can't I'm always happy to outvote you, but there are those occasions. Does it matter how many people are living in the home as it is? Just a separate

has nothing to do with how many people are. So aquifer protection overlay district is that are we considering those applicable as well or not? It was in determinate the whether or not she was actually in the aquifer district. When I read when I read under that

like a formula here for number of people definition it says the the purpose of the provision concerning accessory apartments is to provide a diversity of housing for Tom residents while protecting the single family character of residential neighborhoods. Mhm.

Single family character would be single dwelling unit which is why this is required to be in the same structure and not obviously a two family home or a townhouse type structure where the dimensional requirements would then

change because of the type of structure. So So you're saying dwelling unit means building pardon? You're saying dwelling unit means building but that's not how dwelling unit is defined. I'm saying that the the application of accessory apartment in the ordinance its intent is is to maintain a a dwelling unit to look as a singular application. So it's specific in its requirement of the subservience of the accessory apartment. So it doesn't look like a townhouse or a rowhouse or obvious two family dwelling.

Right? [clears throat] Duplex is a duplex, right? And in that regard because of the single family character I have interpreted this tool mean that it the dimensional the addition of additional dimensional requirements was not necessary for an accessory apartment.

But I don't think that's how our ordinance reads. There's no exception in there from everything else. Makes the argument. [laughter] And it says only one accessory apartment shall be permitted per lot. Yeah. And we have a minimum lot size that anything at 90,000 square feet becomes a lot. So it doesn't

it doesn't say how big the lot has to be. Yeah. No, it shall be permitted for a lot. And a lot is a lot is 90,000 square ft and or larger. What's 90,000 square feet? Just over 2 acres. multi-unit. So we're gonna you guys are going to need to vote on that and see. But it and I Todd I I understand what you're saying but this isn't [music] couched in terms of multi-unit. This is couched in terms of dwelling units which is different.

application of this ordinance under this particular has followed the same idea that a lot meeting the minimum lot size was allowed. I mean the other accessory apartment. The other thing is um to Mindy's point, the minimum lot size in the aquifer protection overlay district is three acres, which would make this a non-conforming lot

and that if it was actually in the Aqua, which is how she submitted it. I mean, I can't if she wants to go research that. [laughter] me in that is that the town made changes to the aquifer in 2011 and hasn't changed the mapping in the town to make to help anyone make any determination as to what how that would affect their application. So based on the tax maps, it was assumed that there may be aquafer there, but based on looking at the actual changed map behind us that has both the old and new aquifer in it, it's likely she's not in the

so did you say there's going to be exterior stairs going up to this unit? Secondary means of The house. Yes. 1960s. 6062. the house itself but not the garage. Yeah. So this could be in the growth district. It is in the grow.

Yeah. Yeah. So the question is whether it's up against the aquifer. Well there's two there are two. One is where the aquifer lands and the other one in regards to her property and the other one let me help the town dimensional requirement. But a duplex is allowed in a forer protection.

Yeah. Imagine. Does that make any sense? My point is [laughter] it's allowed in the aqua for protection, but your lot size has to be bigger. Right. Right. So, I'm not saying accessory apartments aren't allowed. I'm saying the lot has to be bigger to allow it.

Yeah. have an accessory apartment. apartment. In other words, you just have to have more land for it. I mean, there are accessory apartments in this town on lots of two acres, right? But this specified that it couple. was enforced differently previously?

The previous enforcement of the ordinance has not taken into account the necessary addition of square footage of lot size for accessory apartments. It has for duplexes, town houses, accessory apartments had not been included in this but the precedents that have been set previously

you know that that doesn't matter so is there a par can we draw a parallel between accessory apartments and accessory uses in forming our definition a lot of times I'm just trying through this All right. So, I'm going to make a motion that this does not meet the minimum density per dwelling unit for the Southwest Ben district growth district. And if I don't get a second, then we move on and somebody else needs to make a motion. I'll second.

All those post. Okay. motion that it meets or does not apply or Yeah, you have to go that you have to go with the logical next question or the next motion is to affirm. I believe that since it says only one accessory apartment shall be permitted per lot, that means per lot means a minimum lot in [music] on any law in town. I don't think it means multif family and therefore therefore it is a minimum lot

size. So it conforms. All those in favor of that. You should have a lawyer's a lawyer's opinion. We do. You just ignored it. [laughter] Voting against it. Okay. Next. All right. So, what else do we have? I'm sorry. with number eight. [sighs and gasps]

Uh, well, why don't we go through the criteria for the accessory department? Yeah, you have to do that. So, it's got only one main entrance. Um, the main dwelling unit has more than 1500 square ft and the accessory apartment

is less than half that. Correct. um only one accessory apartment. It's made part of the main residence and it shall not be permitted for any non-conforming structure or use or nonconformity. Oh, I don't think I can vote for that either. Somebody else is going to have to make that motion

where the nonconformity is due to the use of the premises as opposed to the nonconforming dimensional requirement that's in the aquaer protection is non-conforming. so I'm going to let someone out vote me on that. I assume you can say

can I can I say something here? Why don't we request to see whether this property is in the aquafer district or not? Would that change things or would it still because I think like you said the lot size is 3 acres in the aquafer district.

No. Yeah. Just just Well, but then if it doesn't change anything then I guess I think it does change if it is in the offer district. where I come down is this is her application. Yep. So, and and she says offer and it says in here off her district.

Yeah. Well, it's only because that's what he told me to put down. Right. Yeah. I've I've tried to explain the in inconsistencies in the town's available data. The problem with that, can we not rectify that? Can the town not rectify it? the well the problem with that is in under our ordinance and under any ordinance the proof lands on the applicant. So

tax maps are not used for specifics on particular. So if there's a question or an inconsistency between town maps, it's typically understood that the applicant is the one to bring evidence forward to prove which side she's or he

you think the town would make its maps a little more user friendly. think a lot of things are that way and I would agree with you completely that the burden on the town has been the town has not done diligence in regards to its mapping. That doesn't however let the applicant off the hook in regards to having to bring forward proof that she complies with the requirements of the ordinance. So it's a sorry

frame. [clears throat and cough] Is there any There's nothing in the site evaluation that will indicate and it should have if if she was in the aquifer the HHE200 should have said something. is the acreage at which the subsurface waste disposal system are unlikely to grade the water quality within 50 of the main maximum 10 nitrates.

So the reason for the lot minimum is because of the septic system which has already gone through the process. Mhm. for the septic system for and she's not increasing the septic system to satisfy the use, right? I know it says the minimum lot size is.

It just explains why it is, but it says the minimum lot size is. So, she must not be in the aquifer cuz her lot's smaller than the minimum lot size. Well, who knows when that was put into place. Try it. Well, you installed 19.

Although it says, "Lots which exist at the time of passage of this ordinance shall not be made not." What the heck heck does that mean? What does it say? What page? Uh 44. I don't even know what that means. So you can't you can't if her lot predates

1988 grandfathering it then she she does not she doesn't have to comply with how many bedrooms are in the home three engineer to provide a study that to indicate the nitrate plume, how that plume studies. You have any idea what that takes, what that entails? I know there's a way for engineers to report it. I just don't know.

I'm not really clear on it because I understand they have to do a compaction test on the subsurface soil and then they do a hydro penetration to see what the infiltration rate is, what the per rate is, like a perk test. I don't really know. I don't know if that I don't know if that gets us anywhere different if we

but if she doesn't if this is true and her no built in 1965 How was the house built on the same lot in 1965 or were pieces subdivided or chunked off it? Sold off it? Okay. We bought it in 1984 and it's the way it was is the way it is. is the way it will be.

It was there when I came here. Yep. 68 snowmobile by it. The road beside it just used to be the snow. We're still talking about aquafer. Page, sorry. Page 39, number seven. Aquafer protection overlay district boundary shall be defined by the map entitled hydraologic data for significant sand and gravel aquifers. Map 11. Do we Is that still current or is that prior to the 2011 change?

This map updated in 2011, right? Map. Okay. So, it's just saying that the definitions of this aquifer district is this map 11. Yeah. And the Yes, the map was changed. The district the aquafer overlay districts changed in 2011.

So, this map is talking about that one right there. It's talking about you see if you look at this one. Yeah. The blue y was the previous aquifer. Okay. The red outlines are now what is known as the aquifer. And is she in the red?

It's undetermined. Her mine is according to this she's not. Her house is right here. Okay. So the road is she's outside the aquifer according to this map. Right. So so that's what this says. So, if this map is that map, then she's out

as far as as far as we can tell. Yes. Tax maps indicate that she's in because the tax map still use the blue rather than the red. The tax maps were never updated. And that's where that part came in on her. So, I mean, application.

So, why don't we strike your acryer off of your application? Yeah, that's fine. If the map doesn't show it. Yeah, I know. There's a there's a place over on Brown Road I built for the 3acre lot and now it's not in a great.

application to show that it's not in the aquifer protection district, right? You okay with that? I'm okay with that. Okay. Is everybody okay with that? Are we making a motion on that or is Can we get a motion? How do we How are we amending that?

I just saw something else real quick. I apologize. The date is 1982. The date of what of this map is 1982. No, the date the map the aquifer maps are updated in 2011. So, but even though it's not, it doesn't say that in here, that's okay.

Our ordinance is referring to the 1982 version of the map. That's how [laughter] our aquifer how our aquafer district is defined. There was and I don't know where to find it because we redid the ordinance this spring. There was there was an asterisk in there that updated to

and I don't know where to find it in the ordinance right now. Okay. So, I'm hoping that it made it from the old ordinance there. I don't know why it wouldn't. We talk, but it also defines the aquifer specifically as what's determined by the state geological survey. Right.

So the state geological survey changes the aquifer. The aquifer changes regardless of the date. True. That's a good point. That was the date at the current time that the ordinance was created in 1988. That was the affected map. But when they change the maps, the aquaer actually changes regardless of the date stated in the ordinance. But the state's the one that determines the operator.

We should probably strike. We should strike that and just say what you just said. It's right right there. [laughter] I mean, that map's older than I am. So, it's a little hard for me to tell here, but I think from the it appears from the record here that the lot was created in 1946.

it says on the first page of the application the application be deleted already requested you are yes I'm going to say that's why we need to proceed you need to request that the be restruck from your application you going to do say it

I request [laughter] that the aquifer be struck from the application. that it meets the criteria for an accessory apartment because there's only one main entrance. It meets the size requirements. There's only one apartment. Um and there's this is not a non-conforming structure use.

All those in favor. said one main entrance size requirements and what else in uh there's only one apartment apartment and it's not a non-conforming structure or use. world's doing in it? Can I ask a quick question on your on your drawing of theart apartment?

Mhm. Which page is that? I don't know. [laughter] Hang on. Looking. Oh, it's um it's this one. Oh, my pretty one. Which one's that? So, this area over here is this. This is a bedroom. Yes. Okay. And then this is the living space. Yes.

And there's Is there a door? There is no door. It's all open. It's all open. There's a 4ft. May I get up? Yeah. Sorry. No, that's all right. I'll come to you. These are the stairs that go down into to the garage, which are going to be closed over.

Okay. So, which means the door is going to be here. So, so there's like a pass through. There's a pass through. And these are only 4ft walls. 3 foot walls. Yeah. So, you can look down over. So, we're just moving. We're going to take this wall and move it over. Take it out. And so, that space will be that big.

Okay. So, my only my only question and I don't know if someone who's been in town longer than me or maybe Paul knows um is there are there any town or state kind of rules if it's a studio apartment of how many occupants are permitted to live there? Do you know if the town has any kind of

I think is any specific I don't there are state restrictions in in children um whether boys or girls sleeping in the same bedroom at certain ages. I don't know if those still exist. They used to. Okay. Um but no, there's not that I know of.

Okay. The standard for the wastewater disposal system considers each bedroom to be have the capacity of two individuals. Okay. So there's no bedrooms here. Correct. And a studio apartment type is not is not it's not that's not unique to an accessory apartment that it might use a pull out couch or a foldout couch. That's sort of the what puts it in that classification. My only question is I know from some of my past work experience developing apartments is that at least in some cities an efficiency or studio apartment only allowed one person to live there. I just didn't know if there was any

could take a couple. Okay. Yeah. I just wanted to make sure if you were planning on renting to a couple that was would be allowed. Stack them in there. Yeah, I'm going to stack them in. I mean, it's very I mean, it's very big. I mean, it's

you get 30 people in there. [laughter] What's that? What? We're being recorded. We got to give the town something to talk about. [laughter] They don't need help. All right. So, do we need to go through the performance standards?

Yes. Yeah. All of which are duplicative. So, I'm going to move to find that it meets the air pollution standard because for the reasons we've already discussed that 56. It's kind of redundant. It's all redundant. like this one. This ordinance and I thought we

did the same for this ordinance every meeting. Yep. I thought we made it better. We did, but it still stays [laughter] still can use work. It's because we didn't want to change anything. We didn't change anything. We made it easier to work. It is a little bit better. It's not a lot better, but we didn't make any of the changes we need to make to make it function as an ordinance.

And that's what we need to talk about. that had that at the bottom. It's 8:30. [laughter] Next. All those in favor? I'm also going to make a motion to find that it meets the water pollution standards because there will be no additional

subsurface. Second. Whatever. [snorts] All those in favor. I'm also going to make a motion to find that it meets the water supply because she's got a good well. Second. All those in favor? I'm also going to make Are you catching all these?

Um see [laughter] But Mindy was keeping the record. Actually, we're just voting to approve everything and I'm making Oh, is something supposed we supposed to be writing all this down? I think Todd was We've got it all on record.

No, the last one. I was not writing anything down at this point. Was I supposed to be No, I think Todd volunteered to do [laughter] it. He's lacking. Well, I got the So, I'm going to move that it meets the soil erosion criteria because she's not doing any outdoor construction.

Second. All those in favor meets the vehicular access and circulation because there's no new road proposed. Seconds. All those in favor? I'm going to move to find that it meets the solid waste criteria because we already talked about the septic system.

Second. All those in favor, by the way, we jump from number six to number eight. Did we? Did we? Well, no. 60. I'm going to move to find it meets the landscape and buffering because you're not making any changes to the landscape and it's not a commercial or industrial.

Second. All those in favor? and move to find that it meets our historical and archaeological resources because there's no significant historical or archaeological resources on the property. Second. All those in favor? I'm going to move to find that it meets the natural resources criteria because there's no endangered stuff on her property.

Second. All those in favor move to find that meets financial and technical capacity because she showed us bank account statements and has an estimate for the construction costs. Second. All those in favor. I'm going to move to find that it meets the noise criteria because this is just a residential use.

Second. All those in favor? Move to find that meet the order criteria because it's just a residential use with no particular order. Second. All those in favor? Move finally that meets the lighting criteria because she's just adding one light and she's not going to shine it in the roadway.

Think she'll make it green. [laughter] Whatever color you want it to be. All those in favor? I'm going to move to find that the explosive materials criteria does not apply because she's not lighting off fireworks. Don't be exploding nothing.

All those in favor. Um I'm going to move to find that the signage requirement does not apply because there will be no sign. Second. All those in favor. And I'm going to move to find the educational services. I suppose kiddos could live there. Um will not be negatively impacted cuz it's only a studio.

The educational services. Okay. um will be met because uh it's only a studio apartment and if there are any kids it's there aren't going to be a lot won't be increased by more than 10% in the first year. [laughter] All those in favor

you go. that number eight. Whatever we were on before. Yeah. Uh, it's been met. I'll second. All those in favor? And I will move to approve the conditional permit with the We only have one condition that um the daycare not be inreased beyond

don't reexpand what no reexpansion. No reexpansion. After your kids went through there, I [laughter] I'm sorry. Come on. They weren't that bad. No, [laughter] as part of that, do we have to add anything about the lot not being our protection?

She amended the application. We crossed that. Yeah. Okay. We're not going to keep Ann up at night because we didn't I get real cranky after What page do they start? 56 in. Yeah. 56 Yes, ma'am. Right. So, that's where you'll find them, Todd.

Yep. You're going to remember all our motions and votes, right? Oh, sure. Yep. Oh, sure. All right. So, I've got a motion out there. I seconded it. [laughter] All those in favor? after 10:30. Oh, I have to wait till 10:30.

I don't get in. [laughter] Thank you. Thank you for putting up me. Yeah. In regards in regards to the performance. Yeah. Checklist. You have the approval criteria are based on the performance part. criteria have approved that it meets the standard that it

complies with the performance necessary. So there you don't have to do this twice. But I don't think they exactly match up. They don't match exactly but to have pass one. This is the standard you have to use to to approve them.

Well, this should I think we should combine them. Yeah, they should not be separate in the ordinance. And they should not be numbered and marked different. They don't have they have never lined up the way they're so we need to fix that should have water pollution

because I don't really want to talk about solid waste twice frankly but that's the point is that in order to in order to find one true the approval criterance probably enforce going forward so Maybe you keep it in performance standards and just you know the approval criteria you know meets all performance standards and then you just march through the

then you go through the performance standards say okay under number one so we just do approvals air pollution not performance the four criteria under air pollution and then you vote yeah and the four three criteria underwater pollution and you vote on it and then right and that's the way it should work so this duplicity is gone

this is she I don't want to forget it and my dog will eat it or something so [laughter] dog it before, right? Yeah. Yeah, he did. Okay. So, good. So, thank you for that clarification. She wanted to make sure that was on camera. Would you do that? [laughter]

Hamstrung by the follow. Do you want to do that? So um last month we considered the Pinkerbrook application. They presented us with proposed findings and conclusions which we made some modifications to. I got the word version from Jim Seymour who is their um engineer and there were some slight differences as I went through them between the hard copy that we considered at our meeting and the version he gave me. They however the differences that I found all reflected grammatical changes and errors that we had found at the meeting and he promises me there were no substantive changes. So I went through and I just filled in the motions and then I um did up a conditional use permit with the conditions as I understood them. So, I think we want to adopt the findings of fact and conclusions and approve the conditional use permit as I draft it, unless

You guys have changes the four that we're at. Correct. I know. See, I did not even dog. I won't say anything. I did not even put your name on it, Mindy. [laughter] I wish you were there, though. We did. It was great. Miss

Oh, I watched it. [laughter] That's not like being there. Paul was saying stuff under his breath. Let me tell you that microphone. You see the way it gets lively. [laughter] Notice his turns towards you. It go It picks up people here, too. They don't even have to come sit up here. Just so you know, you can hear them all. Fine. I know it's not a system I'm in favor of, but that's okay.

No one asked me. they're done. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. cuz I haven't done the minutes cuz I don't have a computer. So, good to have No. And mine is busticated. It won't connect with Comcast. So, I don't need your troubles. That's not good.

and technicians cost. So, prior to permitting construction, I'm going to need to see the bond. Mhm. I'm going to need to see the easement. The planting will be part of the construction process. So, I won't need to see that to issue the building permits, but it will need to be completed before the CO and what other licensing permits will need to be completed before the CO.

Okay. And upon issuance of the CO, the bond will be released. what kind of guarantee do we have that they have capacity to take it down if they need to. We've run into that with the last one. Yeah. I mean, unless we require I don't think we can at this point previously. Unless we require performance bond that lasts through the duration of the lease. I don't think we can.

No. No. We're just looking at, you know, 25, 30 years down the road when we're all running on satellites. It was referenced in their lease with the Quakers. I know that doesn't necessarily help us, but it was referenced in that lease.

So, they they had they're responsible for removal at the termination of Yeah. So I mean someone has the capacity to do it enforce that. But if you're enforcing against a shell of an LLC with no assets, it doesn't do any good. Which is why we require the performance bond

on the construction end. It's not of I've not seen it often in my building experience that a termination of a lease terminates the structure that the structure has to be removed. Um, well, it wouldn't necessarily have to be removed, but

as part of the lease in the Oh, as part of the lease is Yeah. So, I mean, we adopted it under those those terms. it's [snorts] a [laughter] little diffult to get to that cost. Yeah, I had a note about no aviation lights.

It's under 199. It's under the 200 by the FAA. So that Yeah, but I I wrote down condition but as a condition that there would be that's what I wrote in my notes. I don't know if that's consistent with what other people So [snorts] what I wrote is we actually changed their I went through and I changed that one.

Is it noted in there? piece. Maybe that's where that's the tower. The tower has been designed. So that's O on page four. The tower has been designed to an elevation under 200 ft above ground level that does not require aviation warning lights. And I put I moved it. Mike second it 40 in favor so long as there are no lights other than as described.

Okay. So it's covered. Y that's fine. I'm just checking my notes. Yeah. No, that's helpful. of the signs. [laughter] No, as long as you didn't put me in your thing, right? [laughter] I did initially actually cuz I just wrote M.

So, we want to go ahead and sign them. So, copy. I will move to adopt the findings of fact and conclusions as presented. I'll second it. All those in favor? Here. I abstain Joe since I wasn't here. So now we can go ahead and sign.

Sure. Everyone knows. All right. Cool. We appreciate you immensely. Got a great sense of humor. We all appreciate Mindy immensely. do this with my It's always entertaining. Uh, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So, one copy is good enough to keep in your file. Is that what

I will make a photo copy of that? One will be in the file and one will go to the applicant. Jim had emailed me asking because he wanted to look at the final conditions. So, I'm guessing you'll send that along to him. That you want me to forward that to him?

Probably that. But more importantly, I think that Yeah. Yeah. cop. I think I got more than one. Should be Keep the stapled ones. Yes. Little bit easier. I'm not sure tonight. I'm just watching the clock. It's getting close to 9.

And since she gets drank in I don't I don't want to see. [laughter] No, you don't. computer working that one that contest will listen to I will send everyone an email. Y review group. We need to start getting it on the map and get to work on this ordinance again.

So I need you guys to figure out what day. Can you talk about what the process is? Well, kind of choppy last time. My my thought on this is that we got three sections to work on. We wanted to do backlog, right? We wanted to do some work on subdivision. We wanted to work on appeals. Correct. Is there more than just that? I mean, there's more that needs that. But I was thinking that I'd be enough for this round

and maybe hit some of the maybe the issues that we keep running into like minimum lot size and cuz Mhm. It should be more specific. Yeah. Well, if we if we [laughter] if we took two or three people each took each section.

Oh, that's going to get messy. and went through it together, you know, did their part and bring it to the board when they done their part and let the whole let the whole group look through it and see if they find any issues that they need to clarify. That might be a lot easier to get forward progress.

Well, I think what might be a good first step is for all of us to go through and identify the parts that we keep having problems with. So taking a step back, you know, so we're having a problem with the, you know, minimum density per dwelling unit and we're having a problem with the thousand foot step back and the buffering requirement. Um, and and come in and maybe our first session can be a brainstorming session of these are the the cuz the last time we tried to [clears throat] do this as a group, we went through the definitions and we started and we never made any progress.

Um, that was painful. It was terrible. Oh my god, it was terrible. So maybe if we focus on those areas and then decide how to Well, I don't like trying to I don't like my part particular perspective is I don't like trying to work in committee. I like trying to work home and present findings to committee and everybody can read what everybody else has done rather than sit there and everybody try to decide where a fish is, you know, is a fish. How small is a fish? Does it have scales? Does it not have scales? dreams and two hours later we go home without a definition.

He's been working real hard. So, so and that's what I'm saying. I think our first session needs to identify the issues that we need to address and then we decide how we work on it but we're not working on it in committee whether that's you know whether I go home and draft some stuff or Paul goes home and drafts some stuff or whatever. Just share a mail.

Decide by mail prior to the meeting. Well, we can't really do that. That's a public meeting. You can you can I I think you could probably do the work together. I would not use email as a means of communicating work and present the work at the committee for everyone to review. I don't know whether or not we're not an official committee. These are basic we're just basically a brainstorm and idea group trying to put together recommended changes for the planning board to present to the select board. So we don't have official committee status. Should we have official committee status? I don't know that we need

Well, I mean we're meeting as a planning board, right? Well, last time there was sort of an ad hoc committee being put together. Wait, I avoided the committee the committee part because I didn't want to come under the legal description as a committee. We were just basically a group of people presenting findings to the planning board to review for recommendation even though it included the planning. Nope. [laughter] I am not going to jail today.

Not today. So if we're going to do the committee thing, we got to go to the select board and get them to endorse the committee application. If we're going to do committee, it has to be recorded. If we're going to do committee, it goes all the standard processes. You can't talk outside of public forum. you can't chair outside of the public forum. So then we're going home and doing work individually, which is a little more difficult because it's nice if a couple of us can get together to kind of construct something to present. I'm not sure how else to do it unless we do a bunch of little subcommittees. Um I'm I'm, you know, I'm a furniture maker. It's this is a little outside of my normal realm. So what you're saying is we're not going to have a facil a like Nicole did a facility.

Yeah. This time we we I think we've gone outside the box enough to realize it looks the same. Mhm. We might as well if if we're not getting anywhere going that way, there's no sense in going that way again right now. We don't have any other options to put forward. And I think we probably got enough brain power at this table and the other folks that had been involved to really start to figure out how to do this. And that was my initial hope when we started really working the ordinance to realize just how bad things were that might help us figure out how to fix it.

Well, we can specif that that we've gone through some of the case law in regards to appeals and we realize in the appeal section there's some structural changes that need to be made. Mhm. And I'd also thought it might be easier if we were going to have to work as a committee that we take the ordinance and break it up into its individual parts and we address the individual parts. Like she said, do brainstorms then bust it out and everybody go home and red line your thing and then come back together, figure out what parts we need to reconstruct to put it back together to go. I think what I would propose well so number one I had actually Nick suggested someone at GPC cog if we wanted a facilitator um but we haven't

we haven't made that much progress with the last two facilitators so I think what I would propose as a way to move forward is we get together and we identify the places we want to hit so appeals is one I can't give legal advice on how to reach our

um so appeals is one. I think we've identified some other big ticket issues that we need to address. Um and I think the best way for us to do it is to sit down as a group and say, "All right, here's here's what we want to be able to do." So through appeals, here's the process we want to follow. And then the words are easy after that. one person can go home and fix the words as long as we all talk through the concepts. So, here's, you know, here's what we how we think minimum lot density should apply and here's what we think we want to see in subdivision and here's what we think and talk at a high level. Um, and then

say, "All right, Ann, go home and fix the words in this section and Mindy, go home and fix the words in that section." Um, and that's the only way I think we can get this done without a facilitator. My last approach to GP COG, they were fairly straightforward. It was $70 an hour, so $250 a meeting plus travel. The

money that we had set aside was going to get us about page six. Yeah. Yeah. And I just didn't think it was going to be worth the investment. We didn't have a lot to work with. Yeah. Um if it I mean I can talk to Nick and see what if he's got some ideas. I know I've been talking um to the folks in in um in Gray and I'm going to

continue to talk uh in regards to looking at how they've constructed their ordinance. There's some other options that might be worth looking at like site plan review versus conditional use. that would be much more use specific in the way the board could review it and might really just solve a lot of problems.

I happen to be a big advocate of it because the conditional use winds up being a sort of oneizefits-all and it just doesn't work well. It always it's always hard. So, if I can find some information on, you know, the structure of the site plan review, I'll get it out to you guys so you guys can look through it and see what you think. It might be a better way to to just start building that one from there to fill this hole and then just pull all this stuff out of here and insert it.

I know Lisbon does site plan review. Brunswick site plan review. Good. Therefore, Brunswick does site plan review. Yeah. Anybody that's I know it works pretty well. [laughter] I work it gets out of conditional use really quick because it just it's just messy. It just it's too difficult to work with. It doesn't do what it needs to do when it needs to do it and it does too much all the rest of the time.

Yeah. So, but sure, do you want to set the We need to set a date for a meeting to get this thing off and and are we planning to involve some of the same people who stopped as many as we can get involved? Yeah. Whoever we can get involved. Do you know folks that you haven't yet?

There were and they kind of trickled out by the end. So there were a couple well most of the appeals board unfortunately. Yeah. I mean I think you know the hope was that we could get some kind of towns folk involved and not just be you know not just board members of various boards and I think that kind of I'm sure

and if it's just the board is fine. I mean you guys are the ones that are making the recommendation to the select board with what comes out of this group anyway. So if that's the way it has to go that's the way it has to go. But if we don't get any other input, you guys are working with this thing on a regular basis now when you really get a sense of it.

We had certain Frankie people threatened that if we were changing anything substantive, they weren't going to pass it. Well, yeah. Well, that's again why perhaps a site plan review would process might be the way to go because it

that would it would be a whole different issue and be inserted and if they don't we don't you know it's not like but how how does this dovetail or not with the comprehensive plan the comprehensive plan committee is supposed to we're we're set we have set the date I think

June 21st y for the initial meeting. Um the it's it's likely that some of what we do may need some tweaking as the comp plan moves forward. U because it's a little difficult yet to tell where that's going to land ultimately. But a site plan review process regardless of comp plan is going to should d

but if you're talking about minimum density and lot size and all of that I mean wouldn't that wouldn't those kinds of things be I mean shouldn't they go hand in hand with a comprehensive plan in terms of they may change but the structure of the way they're they're recognized in the ordinance won't so it may say where it says 90,000 square ft may say 70,000 L but the parts that this where this is dysfunctional If those dysfunctional parts are fixed won't change because the dimensional requirements

come back into play as they change with the comp plan and some of that's likely to happen. If there were change so if there were changes that happened to the ordinance after the comprehensive plan those would have to be voted by on by the town.

All changes to the ordinance have to be voted in time. So would there be a twostep approval of the comp plan and then approval of the modification of the ordinance? So if we made changes before that, then we'd be asking people to approve changes to the ordinance again. Three,

we're going to ask them every year for a number of years to change the ordinance. That's just the way it's going to go. In order to get this thing straightened out, we're going to pick a chunk every year. We're going to work on it and it's going to go before the the legislative body at town meeting to be voted. and [clears throat]

take you a while to get the comp plan together. I'm guessing the comp plan is going to run between 18 months to two years. Last time it was two years. Yeah. Yeah. So, we don't want to necessarily wait for that. It's not not

there's a lot of this we can't wait for. There's some of it that will change because of it, but there's we can't wait for to make this a functional document for another two years. We're all going to wind up without any hair. So,

so what if we first fix things we obviously know what's wrong in land use and then move on from there session we do it you know we all do that thing like she mentioned and go she's getting us talk about she's looking at [laughter]

I've already made up my mind how this is going to go you guys get Was it that obvious [laughter] Sir, is he saying this the third time or the fourth time? All right, I'm done talking. All right, what date? Set the date. Two weeks. What do you think?

The 22nd. Is that No, 15th. Yeah, the 15th. Is it going to be a Wednesday night? That's what I'm asking. Well, that's what I'm asking. [laughter] Does it ruin Do we want to change the date? Do we want to change the day? Um, Thursdays are bad for Thursday evenings are bad for me.

Me, too. Okay. Well, that means Monday, Tuesdays, or Fridays, kids, or I'm coming in on Wednesdays. What's it going to be? Uh, not Friday. No. Nope. Okay. Nope. I don't have a problem with Tuesday. Say, um, the select board

select board and it's elections. It is on the 14th. Yeah. Guess we Well, what if we uh the 21st is the the comp plan comp plan committee? H is next Monday too early? What's that? Is next week too early? Like instead of the 14th due this next week,

there will be a meeting in here next on next Tuesday. I can't do next Tuesday. I don't think we want to do Tuesdays because we're going to it's going to be too much conflict. All right, stick with Wednesdays. All right, I'll live with it. I'll just I'll make you guys hurt for it, but I'll live with it.

Well, so yeah, and that'll motivate Ann to get here. It will. [laughter] 15. Is that something that you want me to be here for or not? Since it's a work group, I I don't know. I don't know that it's necessary for you to be here. No,

but I don't speak for the board. It's not a committee, right? I don't think it's necessary for Jill to be here at second. What time? Um, can we do 6:30? 6 can be hard for me. Yeah, me too. 6:30. 6:30. 6:30. And we're going to notice it like a public workshop.

No, I thought it was just a not I don't think we can do that. I think we're going to we're going to notice it like a public workshop. We We have to notice it. Okay. All right. So 6:30 uh Ruth will okay so July June 15th and use workshop

complaints about this ordinance and if you get a chance go through the ordinance with a highlighter I'll make you I'll print you a new one if you're worried about yours being marked up but just hit it hard June 15th at 6:30 30.

Yeah. Well, we we know the basic big the biggest places we I want to talk about home businesses again. Homebased business. Homebased business. Yeah. Cuz we only lost, you know, 2 hours of our lives on [laughter] that. It'll never get back. I think one thing we need to think a lot about is buffering particularly in the commercial and industrial uses because we had it with the garage. We had an issue with the garage. We had an issue with the tower. Um and decide how how much buffering people should have.

How about adding different types of use? Is that uses really needs to be expanded? It's way too brief. Yeah. Most of what you see, most of what I'm used to would be four or five pages rather than this is extremely well. So,

do we want to you want to do that? Yeah. Some type of template. Maybe what also we could do is bring an SPR site plan review examples or 10 and especially if you're going SPR you want you definitely so people can more expanded table use because you're going to do whatever your conditions would be specific to the use

to are we going to do tiered say plan review it would be nice to that might be a lot to chew off to bite off this time I think probably break it figure out where you know, leave the home. We we broke the homebased business down a little bit so that a lot we aren't getting a lot of that in here.

Y and then just look at the SPR when you do it and see what what starts to show itself as needing to either have more scrutiny or less. If we're getting typically in Durham, you're going to get a lot of much smaller businesses coming in here, which are not going to you're not going to want to do a really heavy duty review process. So, you may wind up doing it that way. Mhm.

And I have found in in Bowdenham, it would worked really well when people thought that the planning board was trying to make it easier for people to do business, especially small business, but protect impact. You know, you could if that's what we sold, then it's worked well without getting a lot of the typical conflict.

I think a lot of the people that have dealt with conditional use will be on board. Sure. [laughter] It's a typical once they got their permit, they're not coming back here to tell the next guy in the chair [music] that this is a really bad thing.

But they're down at the store telling them every day. [laughter] Hey Paul, can you email out the current version of the Yep. Do you want it in Word or PDF? Everybody want a Word document? So using a highlighter [laughter] check well and also when we get to making changes. So

use your word. I'm not already typing stuff. Yeah, I'd be happy to do that. Cool. Can I make a motion to adjurnn now? Thank you. [laughter] Second. All those in favor? All in favor? All right.