TranscriptPlanning Board Meeting ~ October 5, 2022

planning board and we'll start with a determination of Quorum so we have three members present Alan purrington Julie kaplinger and John Talbot so that gives us a quorum so that is that so the next thing so we have a quorum so we can move on determine uh amendments to the agenda does anyone have any amendments they want to make to the agenda I don't seeing none we'll move on to the acceptance of the minutes of Prior meetings September 7th in the year 2022 I had none did anybody have any I'll move I'll move to accept the minutes as presented all second okay and so all in favor raise a hand 3-0 please did you get the yep nominees okay Mr the

bars that takes us to informational exchange on non-agenda items um Town officials I see none except our town planner so would you have any comments at this time yes Mr chairman the planning board has scheduled a workshop for next Wednesday evening at the fire station at 6 pm on the affordable housing law that is

requiring towns to change their zoning to accommodate more housing and we have discussed doing this public informational Workshop to give extra opportunity for members of the public to understand the issue and give input to the planning board on a direction that the town could take I have prepared just

received last week an analysis from the Department of Economic and Community Development and it was 20 pages long and what I did was scaled it down to the parts that affect Durham there were things like affordable housing density bonuses for big affordable housing projects for cities uh and like so what I did was just looked at the parts that and I got it down to five pages so this is information that we've been waiting for to try to get some clarification from the state about what the new law how it is to be interpreted it is still very much a work in progress and this direction from the Department of Economic and Community Development is kind of like a preliminary take on it they will be promulgating rules for the implementation of the law as we go forward with this process but at the very least they have given some interpretations and guidance so Julieta gave the other board members because they came early a copy of that

and the second document is you remember that at prior meetings we had uh just thrown around some ideas and I talked about three different options so for next Wednesday's meeting I've prepared this handout which includes the explanation of why Durham is doing this in terms of the new the new law that mandates changes to zoning and then it announces the workshop meeting that's going to be held next Wednesday at six o'clock at the fire station and then I've given kind of a a test study area here in Durham looking at what the lot sizes would currently are and what they would be under three different possible responses to the state law and then also

I've done uh just kind of what are the key parts of what would change if anything so this is we're going to put this on the news blast and post it out here in the entry to the town offices and then I will have a presentation to kind of give it again next uh Wednesday at the workshop so I want to get this to you tonight so that you'd see it and you can look over it and be more prepared for that workshop and we're going to try to get it out so the public can see it as well on the website and we're also going to cover a little bit about roads yes but this the roads has been an issue that's been under discussion so I did not I really focused on this in terms of the presentation of the materials but we can certainly discuss that and we'll bring it up just yeah so everybody's aware I don't think there's any controversial but yeah we're just cleaning up language right yep and I'll make a note to do it

sorry sorry about that I got a couple questions George yeah um you probably haven't had a chance to digest this yet somewhat somewhat has that changed anything uh the it really and again it doesn't change anything from the law it's just how do you interpret it so one question that I did have was whether or not and you can increase the lot sizes for additional units that we had discussed last time but one of the important clarification points is that you cannot require a larger lot size for accessory dwelling units which in Durham would be accessory Apartments so that is important in terms of if you were to do a response of increasing lot sizes you can't apply that to accessory dwelling units so you can look through and read it and uh and again we'll have discussion of that at the workshop next week okay um and also you mentioned the rules do is there any idea of when I mean it took them they said they were

going to get this out last summer this past summer and they're just getting it out now so you know who knows they have to go through a process and vet that and everything so and you know they're not operating under the assumption that a lot of towns have town meeting in March and April they're you know they're just trying to get it done when they can so and they're trying to figure out you know what does this mean because the language in the law was not very clear okay my last question is do we have a plan for the 12th are you going to take the lead and we just sit back well on all of these things what I really urge the board to do is look at what I'm doing is purely research and and uh presenting you and the members of the public with information technical information on these issues and giving you options policy options it's really up to the board to really make sure that you know you are the policy makers

you're representing uh the town and the select board so it's very important that you focus on the policy questions and let you help let me help you with the technical questions and issues like the one that we just discussed you know my thought would be is we'd ask George to do an intro somewhere what he's done and what's out there for both topics but I think it's important for you to do an intro to talk about why the planning board is doing this workshop and go back to the you know the comprehensive plan the land use ordinance amendments so that they and the public understands that this isn't coming from me it's coming from you and the select board and the comprehensive plan and I'm just kind of the worker helping you guys do this

affordable housing change we've got to see you know do it it's nice and uh opportunity to get your input on how we'd like to do it Mr uh DeBarge we'll kind of explain some of the options that are out there as a basis for our discussion have a discussion have input from the town and kind of close that have a board discussion yeah and then and talk about where you go from here yeah and also talk about the comp plan like what is in our content regarding right um and ordinances and things like that generally and there are some specific recommendations in the comprehensive plan that I will include in my presentation okay and then is this like a brainstorming thing that we're thinking or more like what we had last time where we just sit around and talk you know are we jotting

remember that we're talking about whatever input you get like we're going to present three different options for moving forward go with what the comprehensive plan has recommended just simply do the minimum you you have to do to comply with the state law and you don't really try to control the outcomes in it or third you look at this and say you know the town is required by the state to add more housing units than a currently available under zoning but the town can offset some of that increase by increasing lot sizes and if you increase lot sizes you know that affects people too so there's kind of both ways this this cuts and so what you're looking for is just public input and you'll be doing a survey to say okay which direct which policy direction do you think the town should move in should it go with the comprehensive plan recommendations which are very much in line with what this new state law

requires or should the town just simply say look we're only going to change what we have to change and let it just come out how it does uh whether it's more housing or not we just don't want to do a lot of work we just want it we don't want to have a lot of discussion at the town meeting we just want to change the ordinance put in the what it says you have to do and then not worry about trying to control it design it anything like that or the third option is to say we need to offset this increase by increasing lot sizes and decreasing you know offsetting it so what policy direction should the town move in and so the way this is going to go

public has yeah we take it from there right okay yeah so it's an opportunity to get public input and get information out to the public let me draw it we can finish this at the end yeah we'll get the public hearing going here shortly is there anything else as far as the junior nope that's it for this evening I don't see well any residence for public comment that is not related to anything else on the agenda so if you're here for celebration or Bowie Hill subdivision hold on you'll get your turn okay so seeing none of that non-residents who want to talk about anything other than those projects seeing none of that I will then um what our next thing is to move on to Celebration uh farm and then I'll start it off by saying because I've got to get this on the record that we had a sidewalk at 5 pm at Celebration Farm in attendance were Mr Puritan from the planning board Ms Caplinger from the planning board myself John Talbot from

the planning board Mr thabarge the town planner uh Chief trip the Fire Department chief and then members of Celebration farm and so and I am also supposed to ask the Plenty board members did anybody have a conversation with someone that offline nothing wrong with that but we just that we now probably need to share in the general meeting did not okay uh and so I think that covers that and then Mr the barge if you would give us and reintroduce it to us since it's been a couple of months okay as I understand it in terms of what the planning board would like to do tonight because there is a public hearing and then there is also a substantive discussion of the application by the board members present so uh before the public hearing John asked me to just kind of summarize where this has developed since the last time it was before the planning board and at the last planning board discussion there

was a lot of of uh discussion and confusion about how do you determine what uses are being proposed in this and so I worked with the code officer and we looked at the ordinance and we discussed the uses and the Durham land use ordinance defines Agriculture and it defines other

uses that possibly this parts of this could fit into but the composite doesn't fit into anything completely so I just we just kind of looked at National Trends Regional developments and really what it seems to be is the composite use is agritourism which is not a listed use in the ordinance and uh so therefore it

probably best falls under the general category that's number 31 in the land use table and that is other commercial not specifically listed which is a which is really a broad umbrella of uses so that is a use permitted in the

rural residential and agricultural District but not in the resource Protection District so we did kind of suggest that moving the one part of the or the limited parts of this agricult agritourism business use out of the resource protection and there were only a couple of features that were part of that to the rural residential and agricultural would eliminate that whole discussion and and need for a decision on on on the zoning issue and then it really falls down to since agritourism as a commercial use not specifically listed is permitted if it can meet the conditional use criteria for traffic impacts environmental impacts Public Health impacts all of the conditional use criteria then theoretically the planning board could approve it with or without conditions or if you determine that even with conditions it can't meet those criteria then you would deny it as a conditional use application so the applicant since

the last meeting has also developed a supplemental packet of information addressing some of the concerns raised by the road commissioner on site distances on the road and parking as well as by the fire chief for fire safety and and determination of Maximum

loading of the building and those sorts of issues from a fire safety standpoint so the applicant prepared to supplement that was in the packet tonight at the sitewalk they also presented in a revised site plan that moved the the bus

and associate it Parts a way out of the resource protection zone so and their packet also included a list of events that they were planning to hold and I think they would probably be better positioned to give that information before the public hearing of what exactly they're proposing now and then you can conduct the public hearing and as we discussed and is in the agenda packet in terms of conducting a public hearing there are some ground rules that are included in the uh in the bylaws of the planning board and I'll just quickly go down through those that it can either be oral or documentary evidence that the the board I did receive comments from the public which I have been forwarding the emails to the board members as I've received them we re and some of them are included in the packet the ones that came out after the packet I have directly forwarded to the board and four additional ones came in today

which I printed copies for the board members tonight um the bylaws indicate that everyone who speaks should be able to do so without interruption and that the chairman May impose reasonable time limits the um the applicant should have the right to uh rebut or submit rebuttal information to anyone who speaks from the public in an aggrieved party any member of the public can speak but an aggrieved party is someone who has a particular potential injury because to their property rights so that's a distinction that is spelled out in our land use ordinance uh the the guidance given is to stress that the board uh only can consider the conditional use criteria so whether board members think that this is good for the town or not good for the town is not really what the application is judged on is judged on does it cause Traffic Safety problems uh and so the public comment that focuses on those issues that are in the

ordinance that the planning board can make a decision on would be most uh most helpful to the process and you will after you take the public hearing will take deliberations to discuss whether it does or does not meet the criteria and during your deliberations you can ask members of the public or the applicant questions for clarification but it doesn't reopen the public hearing and just as explanation we've tried because this is where this is relatively new different from what the town has done in the past but the purpose is to make sure that everyone has their due process rights respected and protected and there are deadlines for uh making the decision of the planning board so this is to keep within those deadlines okay um so the only thing I would add to that is and I don't see that as a problem with the the crowd we have this this evening but everybody be respectful of anybody who's uh speaking uh basically

no interruptions all questions or comments should be addressed to the chair and then we will go from there so don't ask the petitioner don't ask the questioner don't ask uh Mr Tavares please direct all your questions and comments to us and then we will then uh go from there but I would like to start with the petitioner who just kind of bring us up to Snuff from where we were on 8th of August or whatever day that was

having us here as celebration tree farm and Wellness Center um and yeah to Just note a few of the changes on events I think particularly so after a conversation with our neighbor Melanie boisin who um also submit a letter in talking about what would work for her as our immediately direct across street neighbor we agreed to limit to

two events per month with Amplified music which includes member rentals or any of our own events including our variety show and those would be just April through October so six months out of the year so a total of 12 events with Amplified music or 12 days of the year and then having remaining 353 days of

the year with no Amplified music we also reduce the numbers of people as well so originally had said up to 100 hundred people we are going to reduce that to 50 people or less with the exception of our celebration Market which is uh annual Craft Market we hold during our Christmas tree farm season generally it's it's people coming and going in that market um so they'll be you know more than that over the course of a day but that is a you know a great event to support the local economy um we also had talked about holding two to three weddings we have decided not to host weddings we decided that ultimately just we want to do smaller events focus on our mission of education and community and culture and so decided not to do that um as you mentioned in the packet yeah like our own events that we would be hosting um we do monthly variety show um where people can share their their talent and creativity

um or or another show within the barn that has you know similar kind of community art and music and then the celebration market and then we would continue to allow the um allow the barn to be rented out by members or the year to be rented out by members um and you know that would be only recorded or acoustic music um you know not at a loud volume if it's recorded um and you know all the events now we had originally said it could go we said some events might go until 10 we're going to cut off all events at 9 pm as well um and so again those those rental by members so that's that's included in those uh 12 12 events of Amplified music a year I mean just to be really clear I mean Our intention is not to be a concert venue we're not trying to make this into you know something where we're having loud you know hey we have 12 nights and we have we have 12 love bands that's not our intention at all

um if you've been to a variety show that we had is a very low-key very Community oriented and most of it's acoustic we do have a microphone so that people's voices can be heard more clearly but it's not a loud event and then our workshops and Retreats you know some of them might have quiet recorded music as a part of it um or acoustic music at times but again that's very limited um and those workshops and Retreats would be during the day I mean they're not um again nighttime events again those would be no more than 50 people so I think those are the the main um you know kind of changes on the event side um we did you know talk a bit about parking whether the site visit looking at the different parking Arrangements um and then there is also the document that addresses both fire concerns Fire Chiefs concerns and the road Commissioners which you know are happy to work with them further to really look at how we can you know

further address those concerns so this is I mean you know obviously I could share more but I want to create space for the public comment now that's right the outside okay if you will step back and then I will open it up at the official time keeper agrees with me 756 we'll open it up for uh public

comments so is there anybody who would like to speak either for or against the project The Proposal in Bridgeton I know Jonah I've known Jonah for I don't know maybe three years or so because we're in the same men's group together and we meet most most Thursdays evenings throughout the year and so um I just wanted to support Jonah I ca I can't really speak to any of the technical stuff I can always speak to who Joni is as a man he's a man of honesty he cares about his community uh and you know that means a lot to me and so as a you know if he's whatever he

says I know it's the truth so he you know he says it's you know I never heard him speak of concerts but if he says it's not about concerts it won't be about concerts so so I don't know what kind of concerns uh the people of the board may have um I just want to speak to supporting Joan as a man of character okay any questions Greg could you spell your last name Grigsby g-r-i-g sby thank you yeah thank you anyone else for or against okay there uh were several comments uh

written comments email comments um and George had they had a chance to see any of those yes uh we did receive four more today I'll give you a copy um but and I think the board members if they were some of them were in our packet and then others we've been handed written copies today so um

letters were very were positive for emails uh there were some folks who raised concerns so I think I'd like to address those or or announce those and ask the applicant to uh to address them if that's appropriate there Mr planner just a search for them can I ask where did did we get so I saw all of the comments for people that were Pro the project there are some that are again there are a couple that were against you right is in the packet okay and then uh Jane

rice also submitted an email which is in the printed ones and as well as also online yeah it was in an email okay Heidi Randall yep Jane rice is not in that part if I've got a copy here if you need it I'll just go ahead and this isn't if there were positive comments so I will yeah and I think you've seen those or helped drum them up but uh okay so this first one is from uh

Jane rice who I believe actually I know lives on close to you on Bowie Hill Road um and so just kind of go summarize her comments or hit the key points uh so her first concern is uh president uh the traffic that is going to be brought on the road uh and that's estimated number of cars that are going to be there and I think in perhaps the discussion of you had currently have 90 members uh and you want to add more to that could you kind of go discuss for the record and for my edification what the 90 members what they do how they participate yeah so we have um currently have 90 community supported Forest members uh this community support Forest membership program is something we launched on this past year to really build uh connection to our customers um and really build the relationship in a more ongoing way folks might be familiar with the community supported agriculture model this model has been

used in agriculture here in Maine and all throughout the country for many many years in this model and community supported agriculture members receive often a weekly share of vegetables they might have some events to do at the farm sometimes they those members then volunteer at the farm and that's been a very successful model in supporting small scale agriculture here in Maine we as a Christmas tree farm decided to kind of evolve that model to the tree Farm where our members

get a tree a Christmas tree they get a wreath and they get what we call our little tree which is a um a tree that's about this big on a birch base and so that's really you know one of the main benefits of membership is that those products um and our members also do get year-round Trail access and so we launched this

membership last year and as sharing the sitewalk currently of our 90 members we've had about five members use the trails probably about a handful of times it's something you know we we hope to have some more usage we definitely do not expect it would not also not want those 90 members to be using those Trails on a you know daily or weekly basis I think it's with so many great places to recreate in this area there's a lot of different options for folks to use different Trail systems as well and then Additionally the members are there's um we want to have them be able to hold events at the farm as well so this is not a guarantee of hey you're a member and you can just do whatever you know come and hold any event no it's it's would be you know again given our policies our guidelines given the restrictions that we place on events and they would simply get a discount on um you know being able to hold an event

on the farm similarly when we have workshops we would provide a discount for them for the workshops you know similar to if you're a member of many different organizations that discount you know is there it's um so that's the membership I know there was also just while we're speaking about some confusion around the Cooperative ownership piece that was mentioned so I will say I've been working with cooperatives as an ownership structure of business for many years cooperatives are a very well-known

uh in agriculture in many different forms of business ownership and we've what we've created is a worker and Community owned Cooperative so right now the four of us as worker owners we own the business together those community supported Forest members will have the opportunity uh to apply for ownership they would have a additional thousand dollar investment and they would also then have to be approved by us by the existing worker owners they would have a minority position on our board and so really the control would still the majority of control would still be in the hands of workers and so and when and just as like

if you're a member say the Portland Food Co-op a grocery store in Portland as a I'm a member owner I don't go in there and tell you know the person working at the cash register how to do their job or what they should be carrying in the store in the same way they have a general manager we have management that controls the operations and really guides what we do on a day-to-day basis and so you know I think there's it sounds like in Jane's letter there's some fear that you know hey if we have Community owners that they might then you know decide to do all sorts of different things at the farm that's really not what would happen because again the majority control of governance and then the management is all in the hands of the worker owners and also just to further clarify as well um so mentioned there's land in common Community Land trusts they own the 110 acres that we Farm on Linden common does

have a membership um that membership is distinct and separate from our community supported Forest membership and they do not have uh General access rights uh to the land um just like other land trusts throughout the state there's membership bases that support those land trusts and you know provide some financial support but they're not again they're they're not having um you know General access to the land I hope that was clear and I you know welcome other further questions to clarify appreciate it I think and we can have this discussion in general I think there is concern that she expresses about yeah I think we talked about this when we're on site as well about the space for parking um you show it as 20 something lots and parking spaces and 125 feet it so a six foot space you know so we need to talk about parking and we can continue that on the yeah totally I mean you know and again as I said earlier we can talk

about what you know what makes sense in that spot based on you know what we need to do another one um is and I want to make sure I understood that the concern about Amplified music noise uh going past to 10 30. did I understand you to say you're committing to 9 p.m we're committed to 9pm and I I don't know um she said it was past 10 30 that we did have an event and it was ended history doesn't matter we're going forward and then the 950. so I don't yeah I'm not sure what but going forward all your yeah it would end up at 9pm okay um and then the concern about the 110 acres the use of that what is before us is 8.3 Acres parcel 43 I think that's where you plan to run this exactly yeah okay that was a question so yeah I think those were her concerns I think Miss voice soin had uh similar concerns yeah and then there were um several letters of support from other folks like I said I didn't want this to

be in the members of the board have had an opportunity to see though so yeah I didn't want you to think that we were I was only looking at the negative ones but if I could just speak to uh Melanie but science um concerns we so we did she wrote in a letter we met with her talked with her about um and really you know through the conversation and you know developed the limits on events so she you know expressed concerns about it but then said you know yes she is all right with two events um or two events per month April to October um and also Express you know support for the um the bus support for the celebration market and also support you know for us as friendly and Cooperative neighbors that have worked with her um so just wanted like there's concerns but also just we've already had conversations to address some of his concerns and that and really what you see in front of you as far as the event

uh the limits on events that really came out of that conversation with her okay yeah so are there any other questions because we'll I'm going to close the public hearing at seven no six oh six if the official timekeeper agrees then so what that means is that there will be no more input from um the members of the public unless one of the planning board members ask you a question so um okay I will then open it to our planning board members to see what questions they they would like to ask I have a general question so we I saw Ellen that that document that was really well written by the way um so we're deciding or we're going to decide or think about we're 31. is that kind of where we've landed or up for discussion I think that's where we're yes the the decision would be based upon the criteria of third of item

31 Commercial uses other I think others so the definition is personal service retailer wholesale Business Service Financial Service establishment all other Commercial Services not otherwise listed there would be the ladder of that piece yeah so do we need to decide that now or no no it's just to try to help the board under because there were a lot of questions don't we because it's it's dependent on the use has different requirements right I mean because one of my follow-up questions has to do with the resource protection and so I know this one nothing is in resource protection correct yeah so I guess I'll get to my my question um everything proposed mostly has been pushed out of resource protection um except for and maybe it's the leech field is that new proposed existing there's an existing leech field that got approved um by um the former code enforcement officer um his name is escape exactly Bob

Forrest um so I got approved last is it last year or the year before yeah okay so that's not part of part uh not the existing one there would be a just a slight um expansion of that basically putting in just um just and which is in the proposal for um and so that would be just a slight expansion that would accommodate the additional water uh from the

um sink and shower okay so that small piece would be in the resource protection I I believe yeah it's like it means essentially the where the leach field is currently um so if you look here where the leach field is currently it's literally like the expansion would be right at the end so it would be probably about you know two square feet that's in the resource protection Zone maybe um if that yeah okay my follow-on question maybe is a technical one someone smarter than I am can is a leech field in the resource protection area um okay I don't think that the code officer would have any issue with that being located in the RP okay okay yeah I didn't know if it was like anything to do with the application had to be outside or if it was specific things but it sounds like a question okay all right well if we can vouch on that then yeah I don't think it's a problem okay all right I mean either way I do think

that it would be good to have an idea of what type of land use we are going to be calling this thing um and again I think based on all of the information that was submitted and the analysis you should think of it as agritourism yes but it's an agritourism business which is not specifically one of the listed therefore it goes under number three and so the rules that apply to 31 apply here I think is what yeah yeah okay so I think the consensus is 31 then okay

people talk Alan did you well one of the one of the questions I I know we're talking about uh composting toilets and not knowing the specific mechanism of the chemical reaction of doing that I was questioning about the sanitation of those question about sanitation right and how much sanitation does it take away from actually the composting process of the toilets itself if you if you're using buckets to do that yeah and what is the sanitation of those oh what is the sanitation of those buckets um I mean so far we've just washed them

and then um use them again I mean because they're not being touched by yeah there's a toilet seat um so though the toilet seats were sanitizing but the buckets themselves were not okay yeah because if you if you added too many chemicals so that it would take away the whole process wouldn't it um I mean a simple bleach solution wouldn't you know ruin the process or anything like that um but um yeah but there just hasn't been a need to necessarily you know do that I mean there's times when we have you know sanitize those buckets further but and one other item we brought it up during the site review and I think it's it deserves compensation about it and letting people know that we addressed it and one of the issues was about the smog detectors in the barn and I know that the fire chief said there's a specific requirement that he goes through it's not just arbitrarily but I think it's it warrants saying that we've

addressed that and we certainly honor what the fire chief decides on that yeah and chief trip as I stopped talking about something else but he asked me to point out that uh he you the applicant if if it's approved this evening we'll have to work with the code enforcement and the chief and he mentioned a lot of things at the thing but the Mac just just because the Barn's big doesn't mean you get to have X number of people in there so setting a capacity what's your fire requirements going to be for extinguishers all those kinds of things uh you'll have to work with the with the chief and with code enforcement Mr Mr Plummer on that piece but but yes go on noticed that just any approval you get here doesn't mean that that you don't have to follow all those fire safety even in other rules so yeah for sure and you know definitely we look forward to working further with Chief trip and and now and Plummer code

enforcement officer you know and recognize that you know anything um you know we know that this is the first phase and that's really the the details to work out so we're you know happy to work with them and you know and similarly let me just talk about you know accomplishing toilets I mean I know actually on Plummer has experience with composting toilets you know could work with us to make sure that that's you know up to the proper codes um so we're happy to you know any of those things we need to do um to work with whoever we need to work with yeah one of the items that the road commissioner brought up was about scythe uh turning into the driveway and then he talked about no parking signs but based on our presentations about based on a specific site visit today there would be a parking attendant or a staff member that would be there making sure that no one is parking on the street yeah yep and so we've done I mean

so and if you noticed when you came in today but we did we do have some no parking signs on the road now we do Norm like during our tree pharmacies and we actually have about double that normally so we have them across the street we have them on our side of the street and so we really you know make sure that we don't have anyone parking on the road um and yeah so that's something you know we do you know obviously it's sometimes challenging because someone starts and but you know even now sometimes we're Chasing After People it'd be like you need to move you know and get your vehicle can we stick on that topic for a second um has brought up a couple

um that you've got permits for both of those driveways already right I mean they were pre-existing driveways when we moved there so I don't know do do we need another does he need a permit well let me just clarify he is asking for a conditional use permit yeah and one of the criteria is traffic safety right so notwithstanding the fact that there's a use that occurred in the past a tree farm yeah uh there are community events now they have to satisfy the burden of proof that the that what they are going to do the additional use is going to be safe from a traffic standpoint yeah I guess I was just thinking if there's already a permit for the road the driveway does that already cover but again if those driveway locations are unsafe they've been there for decades that's why they're there but if they're unsafe for the proposed increase in use the conditional use you can deny the permit or require them to make

improvements to to address the safety concerns at the same time whenever we have granted it opens up the option to be accepted or not but with any new with any driveway is subject to approval by the road commissioner right right so once and I'm I have total confidence in in the road commission making that decision right he says

there's no so do we need to wait further to hear from Calvin or should we talk about maybe requiring some sort of like site well what are my questions concerns is that when you look at the ordinance for um commercial use there is a site plan required to discuss marketing parking and access and so what I'm talking about is another requirement which is a a formal site plan which is more precise or I don't know what the right term is than what you provided us and with that would you'd have to delineate your parking spaces that show that you've got enough there to do what you want and would have to include a verification by

an engineer or traffic Guru that says you've got as I mentioned on site tonight minimum of 360 fee Max you know it's 400 is ideal minimum of 360 fee so because that has been an issue primarily from the road commissioner but uh truth will change you know Christmas trees are one thing but uh when you start having events and other things and as I said I drive that road frequently I try not to speed but I guarantee I'm one of the few that try not to be there I mean I will say that I mean honestly our events are going to be less traffic than what we've currently done with Christmas trees I mean we are you know we have been a successful Christmas tree farm um and you know so that's an intense amount of traffic in a short period of time um and you know our events again under 50 people um workshops you know those those are I mean under 50 people 25 cars maybe which would be really again in 20 to 25 cars if you know not

many people if that gets all gets factored in but the the code the ordinance says that because you're going for a commercial use which is what you're doing it does require a site plan can you can you where is that yeah I can I can let me let me address that issue please do so one of the questions is uh you know up until this point you've been using the parking for an Agricultural use and so that's a permitted use there's no there's no review you haven't built any new parking lots so there's no site plan review that's triggered so the ordinance specifies and this is under our section 8.1 of the land use ordinance 69 is what I paid 60 69. yeah and uh so basically the

applicability so there's two two parts to review of commercial development in Durham so there is a general conditional use review which looks at a proposal and there's a difference between the agritourism tree farm that you're proposing and a Irving version of the get and go if they were someone if they were to come in and propose we're going to put in 10 gas pumps they're going to have you know all the stuff that they have that is typically goes through not just a conditional use to determine whether this location is going to cause drainage safety and other unusual problems but it also goes through very specific review of the lighting the Landscaping the storm water all of that stuff associated with the commercial development most of the business that occurs in Durham although you could get something like that most of it is just like this level it's a home-based business or agricultural business and so they're not

building large parking lots lots of Paving they're not putting up lots of large buildings so most you you probably won't hit a lot of site plan reviews in Durham however there is a PR there are triggers that say when you do need it so if you are building any new construction for commercial purposes you need a site plan approval other than agricultural buildings secondly expansions of existing commercial buildings also require site plan review again other than agricultural buildings creation or expansion of parking there is a proposal here you've got a sketch plan showing expansion of parking the construction or expansion of non-residential parking areas and access drives involving an area of more than 2500 square feet

gravel areas used for Park agricultural uses so again this gets into is this agricultural or is this commercial I think that the community events parts of it pushes it out of agriculture so but it is a it's a questionable here the other thing the consensus of the board was it was going to be item item number 31 that's correct other commercials other commercials but is the parking being used for agricultural purposes based on that it would be being used for commercial purposes and then the question is are they actually constructing or are they just designating parts of the fields that are going to be used and there's really no construction so this is kind of a this is a gray area of whether they trigger it or not but whether they do or whether they don't under SEC art section seven point

uh oh just go hold on we we set a precedent on this by approving a situation on stackpole Road where there were actually wedding venues and the parking was in a field and we did not require an a site plan for parking on that was that a conditional use that was a conditional use and was that done before or after the adoption of the land use ordinance amendments in 2019 2019 wasn't it was that last year

the um yeah um a change yeah George so there is in the uh conditional use criteria and this was specifically put in for that reason if there is some aspect of a conditional use application that raises issues that are normally covered by site plan review you can pull out the parking standards and requirements from site plan review and apply them without putting them through a full site plan review process so for example there are standards in there for parking that you could apply to their parking layout and say does it meet the site plan review parking lot standards or not so just from the sitewalk if you if you would be okay I could show you what some of those issues are that would be that might help to determine if I can find a pen yes

Insight plan review we have parking lot design so you come in you have your access and obviously site distances are an issue the width of access for two-way circulation is an issue and so then you come into the parking lot and they're proposing something like this and uh and then you have an aisle and there are specific measurements for the distance that this needs to be whether it's one way or two-way and obviously two-way this needs to be wider generally you go like 12 feet for one way 18 feet for two-way circulation so the two cars can go by and then the parking space sizes these are typically nine feet wide by 20 feet long for standard uh seven feet by 15 feet so all

of those standards for all of this stuff are contained in site plan review and the construction of this ordinance says if somebody's proposing a parking lot design you you can apply those standards under conditional use review input conditions onto that effect without putting them through a whole site plan review process well that that brings up the question for me anyway is to the applicant where you anticipating an entrance and an exit or would it be at the same because you have you have two driveways yeah you would want to be an entrance and one being exit they they don't connect to one another yeah so um I mean right now um you know we yeah with the driveway that's um uh near our house um we again during our tree farm season we will have people coming in and out of that we generally have um where there's kind of an island we'll have one-way traffic go around the island with the other one coming out um similarly on the

other overflow area that we use for for the agricultural season then um that you know generally yeah folks will come in and out of that I think just one thing I'll say I mean just as you were you know talking about the I mean so as we are framing this now under aerotourism I mean so all of the parking is for Agra tourism I mean so agricultural tourism um agricultural use I mean and also just say then the the area that we looked at that is the overflow parking really that's only used for agricultural purposes um during the tree farm season

Mr chairman I found the specific reference yeah it's 7.5 B which says design aspects of approval conditions for projects requiring site plan approval the specific design of improvements required to required to mitigate impacts under 7.5 a will be determined during the site plan review process for projects not requiring separate site plan review and approval the planning board May apply the design standards of article 8 in establishing specific approval conditions so one of your conditions could be they need to get an engineered again they're not proposing to build a parking lot but they need a professionally prepared parking plan that clearly establishes the out there we just what I observed was the organic garden kind of is into what would normally be the aisle space for the parking on both sides so if they have the capacity to develop a professional parking plan they can try to do that and see if it passes all of

the site plan review standards for parking and access and that could be a condition of approval a disservice we need to decide is this requiring a site plan or not and then we go from there right like I think what I mean I I tend to agree I think there's two reasons it does one is the parking and the access the other is

um you are adding a structure the yurt uh the construction placement of any new building or structure for non-resolution use including accessory buildings and structures used for non-residential purposes other than agricultural building and I would argue that the yurd is not an agricultural business you know I thought playing a bit of Devil's Advocate there so there's two reasons why I I think it needs a site plan but if what you're but you have said Mr DeBarge is that we can elect to say as a

condition of approval you can apply the site plan review standards that apply to their Outlets you must come up with a drawing that shows us where this is and how because you were kind of drawing a circle and the patio or deck may go here but a little more Precision than that uh because I don't think you can park as many cars correctly on where you're planning and now you do have room in the Overflow I think you could probably get the right number of cars between the two two parking spots but then you have two entrances that you have to deal with gray is concern for safety is the line of sight the road commissioner and I would want the road commissioner to bless those entrances and and will you tell him what the line of sight is that would be a condition yeah that would definitely be a condition but I do agree with you about I based on what I saw it tonight I think based on the Overflow and where we actually

parked there would be enough but I don't have this is the visual I see I don't have the actual dimensions behind that sure that it's safe for all the individuals that would be using the facility yeah so what you're saying George is that if this if we say that this is requiring site plan review that we can pull some of it into site plan review and the rest some of it can stay out that's correct you can pull in whatever parts of the site plan review process and standards apply to what they're proposing to do and use those standards yeah for just those pizza and like you know that's right in building construction and the expansion of the parking lot and you don't have to put them through a whole nother review process except for those this process and we would not have to have a separate site plan review right it would be part of yeah we would just kind of look further into those items during the CU

process yeah right is what you're saying that's right yes okay okay yeah okay I like that idea yeah I mean I'm not trying to make this a bureaucratic hassle believe me and then but my one concern that please don't take this the wrong way but I think we would want to have somebody sign off on whether it's the road commissioner or an independent engineer is the site distance and the ability to turn into both of those drives and so I don't know that we need to have you do need to hire an engineer to design drainage and all that other stuff but I am concerned about the site distance and the road Commissioners basically said he wants to see it and he generally requires

there is an actual driveway application that is signed off by the road commissioner and that would in doing that it specifically addresses the site distance right that app that application already exists that's what I was talking about right at the beginning of this whole thing yes yes so that means does that exist right that's something to apply for is not something that's already been approved correct what I'm suggesting is if you apply for it and it is approved then you're meeting that are concerned that that's a formal way to get that road commissioner he doesn't have to have someone else do that analysis and there's not a lot of expense that goes with it just through the road commission that's a good idea

because there is a campsite on this price property where it's proposed do we need to look at the campgrounds regs at all I don't think so no it's new though and they've got specific it's limited to one so it's not a campground okay by definition okay by definition it's not a campground that's right okay definition is two or more right yes okay okay I miss that so good and then my other another question I have is so we talked about limiting it to 50 people yeah right and if we say I hear something about 20 cars are we limiting the cars or maybe that was just something I heard I think the the your initial comment was when you're looking at 50 you're looking at maybe two people per car you know looking at 25 I think that was Max yeah

because that would help you with the design of the parking lot right if we could say except for the Christmas tree and that was my last question I have is are we including that event in this like the big we including that like we can say 50 people except for these other events yep and the market right there's a Christmas Market yeah that's the only one right that's the big yeah is that that okay which begs the question of where do they Park if you have more you know a few I mean is is it just I mean when

parked you know yeah we have the Overflow parking area and the area that we showed you uh today the the main area where I mean the numbers that we put in there are based on actual numbers of what vehicles we have parked in those spaces um safely and you know um with again with parking staff um you know and that's when we're at Max Capacity for our tree farm yeah and then at that point when we're Max Capacity we tell people you know to to go away and and uh come back you know yeah

you guys do actually turn away people just get maxed out yeah I mean we've turned people away you know and I mean and you know often what happens is like you know it's like hey wait a minute and someone leaves we we bring the next person in you know okay

comments uh initially when the bus was in resource protection they were very proactive and moving that bus so that is no longer in resource protection have clearly get kudos for working with the neighbors and yeah suppository and um you know I think just overall you know I think you know we're willing to like work through whatever next steps we need to and we're not trying to do it you know we're not trying to do a green station we're trying to do something that's that's it's a relatively pretty small scale you know thing I mean I know it can sound big but like we all says you know in terms of the requirements too just you know um yeah we just want to have to go through a huge you know site plan process where we're spending thousands of dollars um to you know be able to be approved to have 25 cars in a graph slot you know I mean I recognize like we need to go through these processes to make sure

we're safe and that you know that the traffic flow is good and I just want to make sure that like the requirements mirror the size of the operation in whatever way it can you know work with the the land use ordinances and the requirements but have you know again you're saying not going through bureaucratic uh you know trying to get that to a place where we can have you know appropriate and make sure that people are safe make sure that we can you know do something that benefits the community so that's you know my hope as we move through this process okay I think part of the difficulty is what we were hearing tonight and on the sidewalk is that you're going to rely upon staff people to direct people where to park how to park you're relying on staff rather than design to address some of the safety issues and that's a concern because what if those staff aren't there what if they're not qualified

that's part of the concern that the conditional use criteria don't rely upon the person being there to address this like a site distance issue so that's part of what we're dealing with I think to that point is I don't know that you need to spend a lot of money on a design but I I don't believe maybe you can cram them in there but again it depends upon a lot of things I would like to say you just say that 125 feet as an example if it's a night most parking spaces are nine feet uh so that's uh uh 13 13 parking spaces so you got 13 on one side you got probably plenty of room on the other side so draw it out yeah just scan

a simple two scale sketch you know that you go down so it's not you don't have to hire an engineer you don't have it just so that we can say well you know you're parking on the street but you said you had enough something that we can hold out and say yes they have enough parking spaces here's how they plan to get 25 cars in the spot right initially if he was talking 125 or we're looking at 9 feet 20 you're looking at 180 feet with a combination of where we pie tonight versus overflow I would think it would be there yeah I but it's sketching that out and seeing it on paper that so I did give a a parking sketch but uh

in the packet um and so I just want to make sure like just so I'm clear because I I gave you something um and I want to see what what else you need in that I think it just just that my opinion something very similar but using kind of the the design criteria for parking space I think it's in here yeah yeah six and a half feet I'm talking about sort of up there it's six and a half feet it's not in there so if you just draw that same thing that if you use 120 that is show that you meet the aisle with requirements the parking space requirements and that's in section eight

um C is access and E is parking lot layout and Design yeah so again it doesn't have to be fancy yeah but it should be accurate yeah yeah I have just an aside I they're not trying to throw a monkey wrench in where does I didn't find anywhere that it said two two or more camping spaces is that I didn't find that in camping maybe in our um

um I've got a couple more questions oh I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry just to make sure I understand because I want to get it on the record so you said no weddings yeah but what about bar mitzvah's birthday parties retirement parties which could be just you know as noisy or

whatever what's your commitment yeah I mean again those would all fall under the event restrictions we've placed so under 50 people we have a maximum 9 pm cutoff whether it's a bar mitzvah birthday party or a memorial um and you know and then it would be a baby shower you know I mean any of those things I mean yeah the same restrictions and we would have no more than two events per month with Amplified music all right so you know if it's a baby shower with no Amplified music yeah we could have more of those but if it's anything you know that status a live band for the baby shower yeah the rule because 20 years from now you know your kids may be running the show and saying what the heck did that to Dad commit to here you know so yeah I just want to get it on the right yep okay and again not that I don't trust you and believe you my timekeeper says you're very trustful

for me any other ones I think that was enough for me so we think you maybe start the review next time or or is there things that okay so options for for moving forward with the application okay uh it sounds like the board wants to see a parking plan that meets all the requirements of the site plan review criteria okay so they can prepare that in the meantime I had prepared for tonight's meeting in case you didn't hit any stumbling points like this uh conditional use criteria form to go down through each of the criteria and record findings what I will do is go through for the next meeting and prepare findings based on tonight's

discussion and then at the next meeting you can supplement those and then and I'll also draft some proposed conditions related relating to what's been talked about tonight which is the last page of this so hopefully with the submission of a of a site plan for the parking and access and then also you discuss having them apply to the road commissioner for for a street part opening permit correct would that be for both accesses or just one I I would think it would be both based on the old because they've got they're going to be using that for over before they apply to the Kelvin or do they apply to dot in the hospitals

approval based on tonight's discussion and like on the event limits and those sorts of things so hopefully at the next meeting assuming they come up with a parking plan that meets all the requirements you'd be in a position to make a decision on the airplane on their application right okay I think that sounds good

any questions I think you can always looked at on what you're comfortable what maybe this would help the applicant if we here I'll pass these out and you can just run right down through them the site plan review criteria is what I was thinking of so we talked about pulling in d the parking yeah the parking um the rest of it is Landscaping lighting yeah do we any of those or

and again you don't need to go looking for them if they come up during your conditional use review you can use whatever you need from there okay well I think lighting is always important I don't what what I saw on site today wasn't bad but you know if we're gonna look light pollution is a potential issue so it's also safety for adequacy of lighting yes so I think knowing that um you know people walking at nine o'clock tonight to a parking space I think it'd be good to know what the lighting plan is to to do that and again nothing fancy just show us where you're going to put lights you know and then the r issue is like are they downward facing are they uh if

you're going to put I don't I don't think you're putting pole lights up so no but if you're using ground solar lights like you've got out there just so that there's some spots that we know where how people get to that second parking lot or a parking lot in general yeah I mean that's my biggest concern is is knowing that it's again safety kinds of things thank you

I think showing it on that drawing yes I guess not how many amps are going off the property line or any of that kind of stuff but just where would you put lights to so people can safely get to the parking lot okay right and you've you have that out there I mean how do they get to the bus how do they you know what kind of safety so just put a dot on something that you know simple that yeah okay

I mean yeah I think so I know you want to do it well but it's just easier if but it's all on paper yeah easier for us at least do we have a discussion no so if you want to just run down quickly and look at each of the conditional seven additional use criteria and see if any other issues might come up that they could address before we get there I agree so you can John just lead him right down I will try to lead as best I can so Public Health impacts Allen addressed the you know some of the sanitary conditions

uh buckets under something I guess that would be a question again not to drag this out I mean we're not doing Food Service uh catering anything now I mean if we would like if there's you know someone wanted catered food then they would have a caterer I mean hand washing that kind of yeah I mean and and so I mean we do have hand sanitizer and then when we set the sink we'll have additional hand washing there maybe you know occasionally we'll have potlucks um but that's you know just a community Chief trip think said he volunteered to be the town sanitary guy so work with him on yeah and I think I think it's important to say even if we agree in this passes you still have to meet before you get your yeah permits and all that other stuff you own a restaurant so I'm very familiar with health and safety standards yeah um so yeah we're not we're not doing that okay any other any other sanitation issues

uh Traffic Safety we've discussed it all you have anything we're good Public Safety that thank you very much sedimentation erosion uh I didn't see anything that if you don't dig a hole dig a do a whole bunch of Foundations and stuff I can't see that you're going to have any and everything's pulled out of the RP too so that's right yeah uh scale and intensity of use uh physical size visual impact intensity to use some proximity to other structures that's been discussed yeah I think your commitments to 9 pm and limiting number events um noise and hours of operation

and limit the hours of operating because the biggest thing seemed to be late night yeah whether it was 9 50 or 10 30 but okay and there is a rule there is a decimal level between seven and seven a.m so that's a good that's a continuous decibel level too so yeah very hard to write title or interest we've gotten the deed that says you that they own parcel 43 and but actually that's a good point so you lease the back end of it are we PR is that part of it not before you go yep but you have the

right because yeah we have a 99-year lease on the 110 acres so right so your people can walk back there yeah I don't see that as an issue oh yeah we just need to see um see something from the bank right like numbers they've indicated the cost estimated cost of their project in the application and right when do we require that bank again is that Morris yeah if you're looking at substantial improvements then you'd be want to look at to make sure that like if it involves storm water detention you want to make sure that they get the money to do it I don't think this does I mean I think they're minimal okay and I think that's that's it and conditions of approval George I think we've kind of discussed the site and we want to see that and yeah I mean if it's there and we're happy with it I think it's going to be more the operation discussion that you've had like limits on time limits on absolutely the number

of numbers those sorts of things yeah and you can add more next time if you if it comes out of this yeah and I think we need to be clear about Christmas Market and number of people you know except 50 except for Christmas markets okay I think that's what I had from this one so I do appreciate you've worked with us so if I can just I want to just reiterate so I'm clear what you so a parking plan that really look at all the criteria and incorporating both the the primary parking and the Overflow making sure that's to a proper scale into the with the um the aisles and the sizes required in whatever that was the 8.66 c um and then applying to the road commissioner for the street opening um but yeah it's a driveway application right and then I it is on the town

website okay if you can find it it's tough sometimes navigating through the website it might be getting better it is getting better just additional some um as we then look at lighting plan and just what um being clear about the lighting then we I think just something simple so we're going to have you know whether it be solar lights or Stadium lights you know that would probably not get approved yeah but yeah it's just something simple disco balls inside the barn that don't go outside okay great um and so then we should

um I had to get that to you two weeks before the meeting two weeks before the meeting um so then and hopefully the with the road commission that I don't know how quickly that happens uh he's Calvin's pretty good okay I think if you go to Cal once said they made me do this he would respond and then um so he could plan to come back to the November meeting for a second November 2nd for hopefully approval at that point yeah okay start the review yeah yeah but but I mean I guess if if you know we do these things and meet those requirements that well based on our discussion tonight I don't see any other Roblox I don't either I mean I I don't I threw a couple of roadblocks up tonight and yeah site plan and stuff but I but I don't I think those are out of my head now so I think great yeah I just run and anticipate any of those so we can make oh we may have two more members but I mean I think they

I will ask them to vote next time they have to watch the movie and read all the minutes and stuff so they should come fairly well prepared they're good reasonable people all right great okay well thank you thank you for your patience thank you

the timekeeper I wasn't expecting that yeah I see him so uh thank you all thank you okay I'm sorry we'll move on to the next thing we've covered the new business we have before us a request to amend the approval for the Bowie Hill subdivision to remove note 11 which is the uh destroyed the requirement that could not destroy demolish part of the school so I think we felt you're here for oh okay and you are we'll get to we'll get we'll get to you in a second so I think you know we had that requirement on them I think they've gone through the process of getting a structural engineer or an engineer to say that it's not cost effective to move and really not salvageable and I think the talent had already decided that it is a hazard um and so this would allow them if we approve it would allow them to uh tear it down demolish it and get end

um so does that sound right well it was very yeah it was very interesting reading I mean it was a thorough investigation by its Structural Engineers and it's not salvageable and we have the letter from the chair and treasurer of the historical society and they're they're in agreement that it should be demolished and there's been Facebook postings from historical district saying we tried but you know we can't it's not worth it so I think I think that is there so um so we don't want you to think you completely wasted your time we could probably ask you what you need to say announce your name and it shows all the pictures what you'd like to say about surprise uh sure um my name is Jonathan bosom co-owner of Bowie Hill subdivision when we uh went we're going through the approval for the subdivision um we knew that this was a a sticky area so to speak and it was kind of muddying the water so we

um kind of set it aside into the open space of the subdivision so basically you know weren't off going to touch this building you know it's not an area that we're going to develop and then you know just so that kind of could we could streamline the approval of the subdivision and we didn't have to think about you know there are already so many things that have to be thought about when approving a subdivision that this was kind of removed from that process um and then received demolition permit which to be honest with you I wasn't expecting to receive from the past code enforcement officer and that kind of set things in motion then I received a call from the town asking their complaints about that I said no problem at all um let's you know press pause on this and go through the process to uh to prove to the town that this is the right the right step to take and hire the

appropriate professionals to help prove that and basically we brought everyone on board from the historical district Society the historical District district commission commission to um to the code enforcement officer to Structural Engineers to a house mover Joe Bia you know who's been doing her for 40 years or something and basically got everyone on board that yes although the ordinance a state we cannot demolish a structure that's either church or or a Schoolhouse over 100 years old it's proven that not to our fault in terms of the owners of the property because we're Roost owners um it's beyond repair and that we're going to by demolishing it a for safety

it's necessary and B um you know we're going to be able to memorialize that that Schoolhouse in an appropriate way um so in my opinion uh we've brought all that into a concise package that kind of lays out our game plan why we did it it's not just my opinion it's a wide variety of people's opinion and um we're here to discuss that if there are any I can discuss well I the only two things I would have is um you are going to memorialize the fact that Parker schools was what my wife went there through fourth grade so what yeah

she knows it has to go not that that matters uh that's a common sentiment that everyone's feelings not that I ever listened to uh folks asked you to save anything and give it a value and give it to the code enforcement guy before you demolish I don't know that there's anything of value in there but would you I think it was actually if it's okay can I see that let's just read what they say there because I don't think it says everything I think it says things aside any artifacts and significant wood

that the historical committee can use for memorializing the school building in picture frame or frames perhaps a bench made from the wood or even significant sized stones from the foundation which could possibly be used as a plaque holder at the side of the old school house so not everything just like enough so that they can use that actual material to create a plaque and my recommendation is to work with the code enforcement guy and get a feel because I think he's probably if I'm not mistaken he's kind of been volunteer to do that or are you going to bring it what do you plan to do Allen won't be involved it's up to the Historical Society set it aside yeah we're gonna set aside you know I'm going to bring you know they have one of their members as a carpenter and I'm going to um before it's before it's demolished you've got a plan yeah you're working with them then that's good I think that

answers the question so is there a motion to a motion the motion would be to amend the Bowie Hill subdivision plan to remove note number 11. I'll make that motion second all in favor raise your hand we're done and thank you for working with everybody yeah no my pleasure you'll need a new mylar for recording and we'll get it signed correct and then uh I'll just wait for your email of when it's when there's a will you use the copy that I gave you no you need to bring a my life I'll bring up my before signing for the recording yep so I'll bring it and drop it off here and then you guys can get this side yeah because yeah we'll get it he'll take care of that and sooner rather than later okay thank you no that's good thanks for your time and thanks for working with everybody people do appreciate that yeah thank you for thanks for hanging in there yes I didn't I thought he couldn't figure out yeah I had probably done him

first um well it could have they asked yeah well it's all right so it's only eight o'clock um so do we have any more questions I cut at the discussion short about the next week is there any more affordable housing Road uh whatever uh I think you know him uh

Brian sorry uh would you just kind of follow up make sure he's got his application in yeah I I mean I think George did okay I again I don't get involved none of this no I think getting planning board members on no no that's not what we're saying it was just passing the info along but I think that's what George did already so I saw the email and I think so Brian I think understands okay what he has to do and the reason I bring that up is because the just the three of us sitting here tonight I'd like to fill that slot Tyler did is it okay to have this discussion though that Tyler did it is interested in moving up to uh the big leagues whatever we want to call ourselves did you want to adjourn adjourn the meeting and then just can we do that for it we're yeah it's not a gender items oh okay motion I'll make that motion second yep