TranscriptBudget Committee Meeting ~ January 30, 2024

oh this evening yes okay what we did last night is we had you join us and then if there were other select board members who had something to say I went through you and asked if you wanted to recognize the other select board members so that's fine okay um we ready to go on the

air good evening everyone it is Tuesday evening uh January the 30th oh yeah um this is the town and Durham budget committee meeting for their second evening to review the proposed uh budget for our town for fiscal year 2024 I'd like everyone to join me for the plge of Allegiance

United States of America and to the Republic for stands one nation indivisible jice a spreadsheet that was uh by your chair um this is thanks to the work of Neil Neil do you want to just give us an overview yeah jul had asked yesterday if there was any forward-looking uh planning on I think it was relating to Capital expenditures I'm not sure about that but I took another look at the spreadsheets that were sent out with the budget spreadsheet initially um there was three there was three separate attachments so I looked at them and I I just decided to put two of the worksheets together and print them because it gives a pretty good graphic of what's going on so if you're looking at the top one for example Public Works he he has what he's projected through 2032 for equipment and uh

Vehicles three for this year and then that's what the CIP looked at and then what Mark did was on a separate tab he created the what you see below which is each year with a beginning balance the contribution of 205,000 which is what he's recommending and the purchases for those years and what happens to the fund balance each of those years so there's one for each depart for each Public Works Municipal and fire I just thought it would be helpful to look at that thank you Neil yeah thank you so that that that purchases column indicates that will will always be in the red well it's always a deduction yeah so like on the public works when 2024 is 140 in parentheses that's a deduction that and that represents the total of the three purchases 2024 18 3587 so it won't be in the red until you're spending more than what you raised but you already have a reserve over here so you're adding this number to this

number and subtracting it yeah so look I go the page for Public Works mun department capital think in case you didn't uh it was something that was that was passed out during a select board meeting but I believe we were sent it by email and that's it's entitled The 2024 supplemental information and that sums up the 2024 capital reserve account requests uh Community Services SL donations and proposed spending for Opa funds so can I can I ask a Qui question

um So based on these we are the town will vote on the capital reserve expenditure and the capital reserve what we're putting into it is that happening every year or not question to no that's not that's not going to happen they're not voting on the equipment to voting on the just the put we're putting in which is which is line 516 on page 14 line 998

going to look like in years ahead if we don't transer out of a fund it'll have to be raised somehow I suppose but it'll still look the budget each like Public Works fire department just I think just the 516 what you're attending right in terms of the in terms of are we talking about the from a capital standpoint or for each specific budget um both so the capital money we used to vote every Public Works whatever is that all lump sum together now the way I understand it it's going to be one lump sum so all the Capital Improvements will be under one specific category and will will ask to um to raise that money to raise that money or or appropiate raise SL appropriate okay so the actual vehicles and all of those that's no discussion among the Town members it's already been decided um via the budget correct it it's almost more like a lack of better words it's almost more like a referendum budget where it's just one block of

monies that's going to be allocated for whatever the specific CIP items for that particular year okay thank you Cher did you have anything you wanted to add yeah I think each one of those the Public Works will be its own

article fire department will be its own article assessing will be its own article everything that you see on that supplemental budget will have its own article okay equal that 56 you add it all all right so but that's for Capital reserves just to put the money in right the point I'm making I think is that there will never be any other discussion or arguments of on the town floor we're getting a new truck or we're buying a new fire truck or an ambulance this year those discussions are no longer here to yes and no again there's going to be one block of monies for specific those specific items that are there but it doesn't it doesn't prohibit somebody to say well listen I want to reduce this by X because I don't think we should be buying whatever it may be maybe a trailer or something of that nature you would still be afforded that opportunity um is the way I understand it again this is um kind of new

territory for all of us this year I get why we're doing it yeah it's it's just the easier management process moving forward from you know switching governments to the town manager and so forth um you know there's pros and cons with everything someone on the town floor could reduce the line absolutely absolutely um excuse me um I just wanted to say that we we began this conversation in our select board meeting we didn't as a board vote on the trajectory we were going to take yet so that concrete answer we we had a discussion about whether or not we were going to ined the schedule if if we were going to put the question on about equipment we that we that didn't come to a concrete answer we started our discussion and I believe that that answer will come at our next meeting when we're drafting our warrant articles yeah that's that's actual I mean we we haven't really drafted the Articles yet but it is it has been

discussed that this is how we're going to be moving forward whether or not it passes the five of us to move forward that way um not sure at this point in time but on the table this is how we're looking to present it as it stands right now until that discussion takes place so it's been presented to us let's just leave it at that so J clarify each one of these items in the in the capital reserve request account is going to be an article yes because I thought I understood that it was going to be an article for the whole 56 and that's not okay that's not that's

good and is that is that going to be the norm or is that for this year just only so the idea moving forward is to Flat fund every year relatively the same amount as as equipment goes up in cost so will so will but in future years there won't be separ articles for each of the Departments there only going to be one article for the total capital reserve account no no each each department will have a number that they want to put in their Capital reserves so this year like for for public works I think it's 205 well in five years as equipment and trucks go up that number might turn into 208 because that's what it's going to now cost to replace them as feel it's going to go it might but you know you don't know and again it's sort of just it's sort of planning this out and again it's just really to try to give flexibility to the town to purchase a piece of equipment when it's needed rather than having that

one opportunity to do it at at town meeting now for instance like Calvin truck you know if he's only going to get one opportunity and that's at town meeting he may ask for it at town meeting if but if he doesn't really need it but it's funded we might be able to get squeak another year out of that or if it breaks down and if the rear end goes in it say in July well now what we do we have a

special town meeting because we got to go ask to buy a truck at that point but if the select has given the authority and they bet it out through the town manager then we can get the we don't have to wait another year have a special Town my my only concern with that is it seems like those Big Ticket items that people tend to get passionate about at the town meeting and if they don't have that opportunity I don't know you

are moving towards because they're the trustees of those those accounts right you don't have to go that rout but it is a more flexible way of U doing I get that it's change for the town and I don't know how it you know well things always change right I mean we're

Jer Jerry when we get to um when the budget committee gets to discuss line 99 8500 we're actually going to do individual votes for each of those items if it's going to be all individual articles right right way to pull the

capital stuff out of the operating budget to keep them separate because they Co mingled before and it got really confusing so we want to pull out the capital and then you have your Capital account and then you have your Opera Neil well that was my question I was going to do that

individually what else would we do it well we could do the whole thing I I I thought we were doing the 516 to one vote you're saying we should do the do them individually tonight it's a separate we need to vote on them separately well they haven't determined that yet right guess they have I don't know I mean if you're going to ask for that 516 they're going to ask what it's for so it gives you an opportunity to say you know 205 is one in public works 185 is one in Fire anding and of lays out that rather than just asking for a big Chun any other

I think I think we're hearing some of the things and like I said we haven't actually as um Heather said I said um we haven't necessarily but you know we can also take under advisement what you know if you guys are looking for a specific way to go about this if you want each one individualized like the past I mean we can certainly go that way we're just trying to get in line with the type of town government we have and so forth and with Jerry's recommendation and the accountant's recommendation is but you know we're not dying on the hill for anything in particular I just don't want to be buried like that 56 as long as it's presented that it's 516 and every line is written there out yeah for the public to see I think that's fine it's just a matter of I think they need to I don't want it buried somewhere where they can't see that but the responsibility is both on the budget committee and the

select board when this is being presented to the town's people if we're presenting it at 516 it should certainly be explained that this is all inclusive and here are the items which are involved with that 516 I mean we're we're being very straightforward with the town's people and it's a new process but that's final sign conc that's the way it should be no that's that piece is pretty transparent to me it's the piece where that capital reserve gets spent and maybe I'm missing the boat but

that I think that needs to be very transparent to the to the public I'm not I you know obviously we'd like to be as transparent as possible right I'm not I'm not fully understanding what specific you're looking to be transparent so we're asking for 514 or whatever that number is for these specific items I'm not sure what other specification so this you might be looking this page right here the had that at the town meeting so they Absol yeah that would be awesome CU then they would know like that's where your money is going I I would agree with that but I also think I I also think that um we are tasked the the two the two organizations in regards to explaining that when this rolls to the floor as Alan pointed out um I don't I don't think it will just be a discussion of let's raise 500k for a

random thing I think it'll be very specific as what that money is going to encompass I mean we we certainly could when the article if the article is presented with a 56,000 we could include saying what it is for public works for all these fire department include all the numbers for those within the article and then it makes then it's right up front people can see it in writing I'm not saying I disagree with it I just I don't want to get to down floor and then feel like we weren't transparent enough the problem with one big number and listing it like I think you just said said is if somebody wants to change one number and someone else wants to change another number going to get some confusion on how to amend the I'll amend that motion I'll amend that motion I'll amend the amendment it' be easier to have separate articles I agree John did you have something add anybody else want to comment on this yes I have two comments

one's a question to the chair and to the vice chair of the select board committee would you allow did we already ask if Heather can just talk or did we ask if we have to ask for the can't talk too much represent that's why we brought her Watchdog here um and then I apologize for arriving late um but if I understand correctly we're determining how to present or or you're trying to get the budget committee's opinion on how to present the capital reserve request um I don't know if it's a motion or not if you want to vote on it but all right I I like the idea of just one amount I didn't like the fact that it was always fire department pitted against public works and things like that this is capital expenses and if it if the town decreases it by $50,000 then it's the select board and the Town manager's decision just like any other um warrant article amount that they figure out how it's going to get split

up amongst the okay so we're going to start with uh we got through uh the first 10 pages and we're up first nine pages 15 and we're up to page 10 out of 15 which is Public Works rich I don't we we have we have some comment just the we had an overall um memo sent To Us by Joe um

whenever we went we did ask Joe last evening if there was anything General he wanted to say about the budget and then we went to the department head so I don't know if there's any introduction you want to make regarding the public works budget um no I don't necessarily have any um other than you know the budgets are typically we have reviewed them obviously but we we rely heavily

upon our uh professional here Mr calv ly our road commissioner and also with the knowledge and expertise that Jerry brings to the table and that's really what formulates the budget more so than anything that we have to do with it great did you want to do anything we don't want you to go through line by line but Calvin if there's anything in general you want to point out to us or a summary well just U say the increase is

$115,000 and that's primarily made up of four items being the paving increase is the biggest one we're going from 83 a ton this year to 110 projected for next year uh so that's that's $56,000 increase and um the uh wages um there's money built there for a new mechanic there'll be some overlap of him working with someone for a while while in that transition and uh the raises and the repair of equipment uh the repair of equipment several years back there was it's called after treatment uh all

the equipment now diesel has to have some serious emissions uh components that are extremely and we're just now starting to see the cost of of what that actually we're about 10 years into it now and now we're seeing what it really cost to run that equipment it's very expensive the old trucks just had an exhaust a muffler and that was it now they have to go through a whole process before it ever gets there with de fluids and all kinds of

that stuff is proving to be extremely difficult add those up those four items and there's the 116,000 right there so that's pretty much it everything else is the flat been you talking about Paving Paving uh wages 20,000 repair equipment 30,000 grounds 10,000 which is a new line for me right basically that takes in cemeteries and otherg grounds maintenance so we were paying five grand before for Cemetery Mowing and now we're paying 10 well no that was just for Mo this is the entire Cemetery budget which includes Stone repairs and things of that nature so what used to be in the cemetery budget you had on top of that is now in in here it's been moved okay so there's no individual Cemetery line correct outside that's now in here got

and we're just adding one or how do we run without a mechanic we have a mechanic that's going to be retiring and so there's going to be have a new mechanic come in work with him for a while we don't know what that that that that may uh require a different salary we don't we don't know that yet so that has to be at least

considered why the retirement funds going up doubling that U was never you had to ask the Jerry the we couldn't figure out where that was getting paid from before so now in here never was before so I mean if you want to add that in really I've done even better so they couldn't figure out where that was getting paid some other department apparently they're thinking it was just coming out of the general

so we had 375 budgeted last year you didn't spend you know $100,000 off approximately how why what happened there well what happened there is um we had a plan to pave certain roads and then a section of road that is quite heavily traveled which was a very important Road was unraveling uh at an alarming rate that needed to be fixed now before it got any worse before we lost that that section of Road and a lot

of it is due to a a gravel pit that's opened in the area that's got a tremendous amount of truck traffic headed to Brunswick that road was just coming apart at a rate that there was no way to not do it this year so we switched to this uh section of Road uh we didn't have enough to complete the entire Road without box cutting a piece we didn't have enough to do that and the Paving Company um paved the

piece we had and then didn't have the time to go and pave something else what specific Road are you talking about quick meeting house from 125 all the way back back to almost 136 but there's a piece there I'd like to have done but we uh that piece that isn't done would have to be box Cut and repairs made before we could pay them otherwise we would have been just throwing good money after bath so is your is your Bridge repair in this within this no okay any Bridge

repair would be capital okay so is there any in our ordinance that holds people responsible for destroying the roads for instance like when Boe Hill first got done and then somebody came um the property across our street was logged and because the logging trucks were coming in and out onto that up the hill they destroyed the that actual piece and so do we have something in there if that happens is the company liable to to have to fix it or and I have no idea who this is so I may be like shoot myself with the foot but um do we have something in our ordinance that does cause for that or no not specifically no other than putting a weight ordinance on but in a logging instance that wouldn't apply anyway because if you're doing work on your property even if it's restricted the weight that's only it's through traffic you'd still be able to have work done on your property I would think they need to have

to have a permit and so the permit fee should take into that that into consideration the permit fee a permit fee wouldn't take into consideration any should if you're getting permission to log a section you know you're going to have heavy equipment I would you into consideration I don't know the ordinance well enough or the permit to know that there's no permit fee for there's no permit for logging there's a state uh notice of intent to cut for them they have to get from the uh main forest service but there's no no permit required at the local level I mean some cities I believe might get it so this is kind of a general question rich I don't know if you guys talked about it I I did listen to your meetings but I didn't get everything so his his the Calvin's budget was 17

1723 last year he spent I don't know $175,000 less than the budget so go ahead that's not accurate we seeing there there was more money spent that it's not reflected okay so let's say you spent $100,000 less okay that most and most of that was attributed to that Paving switch we had to do on Qui meeting this is a principal question not an amount question so that money goes back to the general fund if we wanted to recommend that that money now goes to reduce his budget this year which we've done in the past how would we do that you would have to formulate it in it would be a transfer from the it would be a transfer but we would we would we would have to might be able to correct me on this one but to my knowledge we would have to present that at the Town floor and have that money transferred over so we would we would rather than rather than raise the money we're going to appropriate it from the general fund from for Calvin's

particular budget if that so we raise 1.4 and transfer 100 or something like that that's the way I believe that would be done yes sir so we could do that if we wanted to I don't see why not it's Town's money long you do pretty much anything town go for

questions um I have one regarding equipment rentals um line 40- 7250 so that has a history of being um either over budgeted or just UND spent and it's showing that again this year rather than refer to it as a 0% increase over what was budgeted I'm looking at it as 180% increase over what was spent do you want to give us an explanation on that line so that

to some staffing issues and other I I like to try to rent a piece of Machinery to split the crew and do on different areas of town at the same time uh that didn't happen this year but in this coming year um I'm going to have to do something with grading the gravel roads I've either got to rent the Machinery to do it or we've got to hire somebody so either way I would use that money for one or the other but that's definitely got to be done because town of pel's been helping us out with it but at some point we've got to come up with deal that either we got to negotiate with pel or we got to start hiring it out or rent the machinery and do it ourselves I don't have any problem with the explanation and I don't mean to be disc curious in in any way to you Calvin

um and I can't remember what I had for breakfast but what your your explanation for why it's over budgeted sounds fairly familiar to reason you given us to us previous years so I don't mind you know honoring the request but I'd like you know if I don't want I just want I don't want you to be we we try to resist um

you know um want over budgeting well I can explain that we did try to do the grading rental this year and start to develop a plan for ourselves and we found that the machine just wasn't heavy enough or big enough to do it so we quit that and pound forun was able to help us and get us get us through but this year I'm going to look for a bigger machine that can actually handle it we thought this one would but it it just just couldn't do it so we realized we were wasting our time and money so I'll either find a bigger machine this year or we're going to have to hire it out I have a question yes I'm sorry pH that's okay so would is this less expensive than purchasing would we if we just that would it be a an impr Capital yeah a greater is about 350 to $370,000 and and so let's rent it but I mean I I mean I and then you got a store at me I mean I wanted to at some point that might be a discussion but for right

now I wanted to try and take care of it I think the rent at a less I mean long term you may end up paying the same amount but until I can compare make the comparison until we're actually doing it and Comm make comparison I don't I don't think there are enough dirt roads in town to keep that Machinery operating enough days through the year to justify purchasing one yeah I would agree with that yeah I mean a lot of towns use them for ditching and I I think U at that point I when we have an excavator we can do our ditching that way but I I don't I can't either which is why I'm going this

curiosity or clarification um line 40 7254 Grounds Maintenance it says added 5300 Cemetery restoration that is what was previously in the cemetery budget or is that Cemetery restoration to repair the damage that was recently Rec done to a cemetery no that this is done way before that event this is so I have what line

Jo uh 40- 7254 Grounds Maintenance so that actual estimate is actually estimate okay can I jump in on that one y Mr yes sir the um Cemetery committee uh asked for money this year to do repairs and they did they got estimates on two cemeteries Littlefield

fair fair something or other and they so they have good estimates from two different uh providers and I think what's happened is uh we've had a lot of deferred maintenance in cemeteries stones have fallen over walls have fallen apart and gotten broken and so yeah I'm sorry and I think I sent that was Tia Wilson's estimate I think I sent that a couple days ago and so there was two parts to it one was flags and Jerry included that in the municipal buildings budget but this is to do repair so they they are I think taking a look at uh a long range plan on how do we get some of the work done in uh in our cemeteries because once a stone Falls over the Slate or marble it cracks then eventually 100 years later somebody hits it with a hoe or something so they're trying to get some of that deferred maintenance done so that's the 5300 well it's

more 7,000 there 7,000 there and 750 for yeah I'm sorry you're right so it was 7750 so it was and then 100 bucks for so ,000 for Flags we discussed equipment and materials which they use they the cemetery committee uses for taking care of that in addition I think to what Calvin does Littlefield was 750 and um Fairfield was 7,000 so it's about 7750 uh 78 yeah you're right 7850 so I will tell you that when we started doing cemeteries last year we were astonished to find that there were cemeteries that were so buried in the ground that we had to dig down to find them and pull them out and then had you know three or four feet of leaves over that that uh were going to be lost at uh that I'm just surprised that that they we definitely need to start fixing

so and we have 14 total cemeteries ranging in size to from small to bigger so 7254 has that number in it it does y and then I have some stone stone wall work to do at the River Park that needs to be that uh this is just Public Works does not include solid waste correct that we recommend uh article for

1,454 $228 is there a second seconded that the town appropriates 1, 14542 128 for public the Public Works account discussion further discussion I have a question so line 7255 the vehicle repairs and maintenance did that get moved from another department yeah what happened is we broke that down it used to be equipment maintenance and we've now made that two different we've made vehicle vehicle maintenance and equipment maintenance is two different lines so you'll see that vehicle maintenance is three lines down the 7252 you'll see

is down 55% because it got taken out and put into vehicle repairs and maintenance line we want to start tracking uh Jerry want to be able to track them separately so we knew what was going into that's fine I just want to make sure it was subtracted somewhere else so there's about a 10% increase in there 111 to to 120 yeah well there's there

actually there was there was quite a bit of money that was spent after that number so I thought I had written it on here repairs yes that's getting very costly even on our one car there's heaters and the de tanks and there's a whole that's just an elaborate system that is almost got as much as maning the entire vehicle and and it we're now getting to the stage those trucks years old they're really starting to cost us some serious money and we were told it was going to come but now we're starting to feel it wait till they're all electrical this is this is just a question for the future really if we wanted to transfer money on this article so let's say next year we have the same scenario they didn't spend $100,000 in roads it goes back into the general fund if we wanted to transfer that money next year into this um you know it wouldn't specifically go here I guess it doesn't matter but um can we do that in a vote

here yes we've always been able to that would be the recommendation right recommendation is raise this and transfer X right right so question so you now you've mentioned that now twice what what is different from what you're proposing versus what was presented last evening that the town is um is is proposing to move 500,000 from are you

thinking move the 500,000 plus the 100,000 Plus or don't you think that's already included in the 500,000 that is going to be transferred it's not well I'm I'm not sure understand the question every the 500,000 is all capital no no no it's moving from the fund balance correct it's all capital there that number is very similar but they propose that they're going to move like a half a million dollars over from our fund balance into that's all for Capital expenses it's off of Capital expenses okay can somebody they're shaking their head so let's let them

this well actually it's not all capital I guess there eure reserves in there Union churches in there so I think what J's getting at in terms of the numbers being similar is that the budget is proposing everything you're seeing here and then before figuring out how much we have to raise we're saying 500,000 of that should be taken out of the fund balance and then the remainder that we need to raise is then done with taxes it just happens to be a similar number to that 56,000 but it's not a onetoone match there because we're only pulling 500,000 out of the fund balance whereas those Capital um if flat if we're flat funding that capital expenditure that's 500 16,000 so they're similar numbers but they're not the same and so I guess what you're getting at is could you then say pull more money out of what you're getting at is could we say you want us to pull 600 or 700,000 out of the fund balance to then cover whatever to apply

towards operating right and then that would just reduce the amount that you need to raise in taxes by an equal amount and so it kind of sounds like that's what you're right suggesting or getting that's what we've done in the past yeah so they're similar numbers but it's not one to one there yeah it's similar what we've done in the past in the past we have never moved $500,000 from what was then unrestricted to offset any tax increase well last year we did 23 it was a total of 230 based on what we did in each account right they're just doing a lump chunk different philosophy I agree that I'm confused where the funds are coming from I'm assuming we'll get to that by the end of the meeting to the explanation to make sure that we all understand my understanding is the way the budget is being presented the town's people will not see an increase in their taxes unless the school budget throws us

for a loop and the county who accounting and what ACC and the County taxes and the County taxes right which is likely to happen they're not they're not budgeting it in my opinion enough for that I think Jill that's that's the forecast right um you know like like I said there's variable components to that um there's the Homestead Act there's the county tax there's the school tax that we don't know or have any control of technical I mean we do vote on the school budget but we don't really have control over it um so the proposal now based off of the monies that um Jerry and the accountant felt comfortable with that we could allocate these funds that we have previously collected therefore basically giving us a flat uh tax rate this year as far as moving forward with the exception those so right now we we're discussing a motion on the floor go ahead but we did increase the budget even though they're taking some of the

undesignated funds and you're call everybody's calling it flat it is increased we increased the spending I guess it's just how you do the terminology I'm not quite sure but I've heard a lot of it's flat we didn't increase we didn't increase I'm seeing we increased all we've doing is taking money out of everything that we've already overcharged people and using that to call it flat but we have increased it right no no I think I think there's a misconception of when you hear the word increase or or what we're proposing or what the town is proposing this year with through the select board and um the town manager is um we're

saying that by doing this by utilizing these Monies we can keep the mill rate relatively the same but we're not suggesting in any way shape or form that the overall budget is a flat budget from last year there's obvious increases built in here we're just saying because we're not going to be raising as much money that the tax

number let's say let's just say the mill rate is going to be somewhat stable of what we have had in the past with the variables being County the school Homestead exemptions etc etc that's what we're saying but we're not in any way shape or form saying that this budget is equal to or less than last year's budget it is in fact more okay I S another question I saw another hand

the motion to count on the floor seeing none that motion is um to appropriate 1,4 $4,228 for public works all those in favor please indicate all those opposed and so that was unanimous vote 8 Calvin cvin do you want to be part of the solid waste discussion I'll yes is going to be part

you cvin guys by Way Road snow and ice and stuff thank you all right for now our questions will be directed towards Rich are there any any general questions regarding solid was one of I my understanding is C this contract we're going to be I don't know whether we have signed a contract with cassella yet for five years not to my knowledge not that I've not that I've seen though if we we put out bids for contracts and we just had one huler

respond to that and it was a 5year contract and if we stay with cassella couple of years down the road which they have said I think it was 18 months but a couple of years down the road they're looking at providing uh two 64 gallon containers one for trash and and one for recycling and they are going to be passing along majority of that expense to the town of Durham correct that's my understanding also right is that built into this five-year contract or that'll be an additional well from what I'm hearing we haven't signed a fiveyear contract I'm going to defer to the town manager on that because he and uh I believe cvin had more insight on that than we

question where contractually where do we stand with Cass off the contract ends June 30th of this year have we signed the fiveyear contract yet does the fiveyear contract include the trash and recycle Barrel that alen just brought up yes which they will

a year or two so I I guess since you haven't since the board hasn't signed a five-year contract you probably haven't gotten into the nitty-gritty as to how they are going to manage that there's what do you mean how are they going so if if you if we currently have IND idual out there that have thec the the philosophy behind going with those two containers is because it's going to be mechanized they're going to get away from having individuals on the back of the truck because that's a big liability issue totally understand and in doing that you need three feet in between each one of those containers uh if I already have a container like that how how is that going to managed I only have one I don't have and I use a little one for recycling so am I going to be issued you're going to be issued a can with a barcode on it that's going to be specific to that address okay so when they collect they're GNA have it and if it comes up

missing and it's and somebody else's doad when they when they hit it it's like oh your trash can's across the street so that's how they're going to manage that you get the first two then if you keep losing them you can call them up and then you'll have to pay for it after that so at the same time when this happens uh when that happens I think it's a matter of when we will no longer be buying tags that I I think so I well that's up

to the that's up to the board well I I the reason I reason right whatever but I I Ser the reason I don't think that that's going to happen because you're going to have a 64 gallon container and it is going to going to be stuffed full and the the mechanized arm that goes around and picks that up is not going to weigh each individual container I don't believe unless it's unless it's drastically over like 200 pounds something they recognize that so what I'm saying is these are going to be stuffed much Fuller than what we're doing right now therefore people are not going to be buying tags they'll take whatever you put in that can right now right today today they'll take whatever you have in that can as long as that can is tagged they'll take it if you have garbage outside of that and it's not tagged they won't T they won't take it just ask Josh i s been back here he found that out so what okay always

t i take video every Friday so every every week I put out one container with the new one if it's a new container I just every week I put one out so I'm not going to there's no issuing of 26 Tags I'm I'd basically be an issue of a container yeah I would agree with that that that would make sense I mean that you're right that I see it from I think I think what Jerry was alluding to and I don't want to speak for him but I think I originally took your question as hey we're only going you know like we traditionally have a 20 pound per week or that's never really held water ibody knows that right um so I think what we're saying is moving forward outside of anything that fits in the confines of the 64 gallon trash bag that or trash receptacle that they're going to be provided um you would have to have an additional tag for any more than that so if you did put a bag a hefty bag out have to put a bag they're they're not

going to pick up a bag oh then you only get the 64 and you got to take it to hopefully your body got Alan is there a relevance to your concern about the tags to the current budget well I have a relevance well this year it's not going to happen this year I'm looking I'm trying to be proactive in looking into the future and saying well those revenues are going to go

we we talk about changing the budget now we're talking about how waste and recycling is going to be picked up at the curb and that's going to be a change to everyone where does that Revenue show up uh it's there it's not it's not itemized usually us fees and trash it 1464 51 that's the question

14 not I I would like to say you know In fairness um Jerry has come to the board and we we actually issued some of you I think not even part of it we had a committee yeah and and you know we we've tried to exhaust other resources besides um cell there's just not a lot of other resources out there unfortunately they're really the only game in town at this point in time other than you know getting really creative whether that's starting your own plan or things of that nature which know was that's not anything that the board that we or excuse me the committee recommended so this was our best bet that we saw moving forward Jill so the question I guess I have about the

new barrels coming out is been saying you get 26 tags which is really only allowing you to put out trash every other week correct a trash barrel every other week um without paying for it well you paid for it in your taxes you prepaid for it you put out more you're just going to buy a tag and correct so if it's now a 60 gallon

I'm just going to give me as a personal example um and hopefully Mechanic Falls isn't listening um when I don't buy extra tags because as a business owner a mechanic Falls I have a dump pass there so any trash that exceeds my home right now goes to Mechanic Falls um because I don't want to pay that extra we have a deal for you with our contract with our previous contracts it's been based on tonnage so I can tell you right now if I get a 60-gallon barrel that I'm able to put out once a week my tonnage that I'm donating to Durham is probably GNA double if not trple so West B or something what's that doesn't come to DAR usually goes to West bath or something we don't take donations on trash yeah well you're going to get my tonnage donations that trash barel um so

if this contract is based on tonnage I think we really need to take that into consideration when we're figuring out budgeting the amount I think I think it it is a moving Target from a number standpoint because it's it's a it's it's a bid and there is um tipping fees and so forth involved in that but there's really no way especially right now to quantify anything within other than what we're being afforded by the numbers by them of what we're currently using and a projection moving forward there's really no way to put a hard number on that um we we are relying upon the service you know we there's no way for us really to do anything other than take their number and run with it so Richard Jerry the 350,000 that's that they are they have already sort of estimated what our tenant will be and and that's the cost of the first year of the contract yeah so they keep track of what our tonnage is and they have a number it's

like 110 a ton so I just take that number of what the previous years have been the tons of by that added to their to their to their number to collect collect the trash so that you haven't been quoted 350,000 that your estimate oh this whole budget is estimated okay absolutely so you won't get a you won't get a quote from Cel until we sign the the 5year contract and then we'll find that what the first is going to cost us no get an estimate no you get an estimate they they'll tell us we get a quote for what the curbside pickup is what we don't know is what the Tipping fees are and they do the recycling and that we also get a kick back from that whenever they do that gets added back into the um contract so you you don't you don't know it's always been an estimate yeah it's always an estimate you you're not going to know so like for instance if people people if everybody in town had a cat and they put their wet kitty litter

in their trash your tipping fees is going way up because you it's much lighter dry than it is wet so there's some education out there that the town could do to help people reduce the tonnage cost which would reduce your your overall Solid Waste line so it's you know food I mean

if if the town got into a composting program that might help reduce the it's really all based on Tage and it's a volatile Market it's up it's down um it's hard for them to nail down exactly what they're going to charge Durham for for solid waste John I think correct me if I'm wrong but for this year that 350,000 there's no change in the way we're doing it they're not they're not giving us the bins so it's status quo for yet another year maybe two maybe two right so we can have these discussions on how it's going to work as we get closer to those time frames y I just wanted to speak for a second about the solid waste committee we are we the SL court has established a solid waste committee I was really um hesitant about a fiveyear contract that's all that we've been offered to cassella or any other provider and so the way I'm speaking for myself as a board member I'm not speaking on behalf of the board

I'm looking at that fiveyear contract as the amount of time that we'll be able to really vet and establish a longterm solid was plan um and with recommendations that come from the solid waste committee so this is all very valid very important and and I think there's a lot more discussion and vetting to be had here um I don't foresee personally staying with this exact model but the the solid waste committee still has all of their work to do before they make recommendations to us for a longterm plan which is what really needs to be established any other questions comments regarding I was going to make a motion yes Alan I'll make a motion that we appropriate 364,000 for solid waste do I have a

second so it was motion by Allen and seconded by Neil that the town appropriates account open for discussion further discussion seeing then we'll move to a vote uh the the motion is to appropriate $364,000 to the solid waste account all those in favor all those opposed

we're on this topic I just want to put my two cents in on composting I hope you don't go encouraging people to get into the composting business in durm you can just put a pile of leaves on the ground dump your garbage on it start another pile the next year I can teach people how to compost if they want I don't want to pay to have compost in durm just my take I believe we're moving on to other community services which would be P 13 of

this rich or want us to just throw questions at you yeah I'd rather fail the questions so I'll open it up four the the Free Port scholarship donations that seems like a pretty high amount is there an explanation behind that amount yeah that um they've come to

us two years in a row now last year they came to us um they were passed we were already passed we were heavily into the budget subit so we could not submit um the last year's budget this year they came to us I believe that number um is a number that basically they had given to us based off other communities if I if my memory serves me correctly um so that was their recommendation so you know we put their recommendation in front of the town okay and normally we've had like a copy of letters so it gives us a little bit of background information like how how they have helped or worked within our community before but I didn't see that in an email yeah that's that's that's fair I don't know if we did get that information and they would they will be one of the people that we will ask the town to give permission to speak um at the town meeting um but there there um a lot of their M so far have gone to durm students quite a bit of it

um but overall I mean I would I would leave it for them and you know like I said this is the money that they're asking for um the town can go from there like I said we're going to ask for them to be present and ask for them to give their spal but just like any other community service that's come to us over the past if we thought it was warranted and towards the town we put it on the we put it to be put towards the town people if I remember correctly in the past it's been one warrant article has been our donations yes but separated out I I think you're right but we usually would put for example we would put maybe a heating oil system in there a little league a snowmobile club uh maybe a booster club etc etc but they were separated with a total dollar but they all weren't their own individual okay all right regarding the scholarships do you know if this does this amount represent a numerous scholarships that total

$10,000 for the upcoming year or yeah there is a dollar value I think what you know um I think their intent is what they're trying to do is they're trying to raise x amount of dollars that they're having managed I believe through Bath Savings and Trust where they're essentially trying to get to a pool of money where they are taking basically those dividends from that money every year and sending that um or giving that to you know x amount of scholarship recipients um it's it's a pretty it's a pretty decent scholarship in terms of what they're giving out for a student um it's not like $1,000 dollar or anything of that nature but I think their their goal is to try to you know maybe at some point and I'm speaking totally off the head here you know maybe they got $2 million in the bank and they make 8% that particular year off Investments or whatever may have you they'll invest that $160,000 into four or five kids and it could be

it could be for Traditional fouryear School it can be for Vocational School um and it can also be for um like a community college and so forth of that age that's Mone yes I mean the kids yes um and I also Heather did you have something you want to yes they're trying to get their pool to2 million which I believe said would a eight full scholarships fund eight students a year um right now they're at four um three they have four

for each year and then they have ones that they have done in the past so I believe there are currently seven students in the program and three out of seven are dur what do you mean program the scholarship program so once you get a scholarship you get it repeatedly perhaps throughout your college it's a certain amount for four years and they not only it's not only um just the funding they also match each student with a mentor in their field so they're they're not only looking for money they're also looking for mentors that would be appropriate to match with students that are going like was someone goinging if there was a student that was going to school for veterinary work they they are looking for professionals to be able to Mentor these students through their

through ceson some kind of a nonprofit has a board of directors yes it is yes it does um I think the president is Trust least eight members that I can that I can recall seeing names and so forth but and all the scholarship recipients 10 free Point High School well no I mean they they are part of the rsu5 and they they they could in in fact a 10 you um people forget we're affiliated with Bruns with um Regional 10 Regional 10 so that that also that money could be so it's not just free Port High it does go to them also

I'd give him $22,000 and I would make a motion if we're ready for a motion to do that so well you make a motion anytime you want and then I it open up the discussion okay I I move that we recommend so but the thing is we have to vote on an amount that includes Durham Youth Baseball the snowmobile club and a

donation to The Ambit we're not just voting right now on just the Free Port scholarship we're having an open discussion inport scholarship is one of the items included that will be included in the motion so this is one of the problems not having an article in front of us I don't know how to do that so I would my recommendation would be to finish the discussion on the other three let's just hear what discussion we have for that good point I I have no problem with the other two so other three other questions for Rich did you want to recognize one of your so the um the scholarships are for the fouryear scholarships is $5,000 a year and for the twoyear scholarships it's $4,000 a year and part of what made the board very comfortable with their recommendation is it also looks at technical schools and for example I think there's a young woman from Durham who's getting the scholarship and she's going to school for welding so they were

helping with things like getting her boots and her equipment that she needs for her classes and stuff like that so it was very Broad and encompassing and um a large amount so we understood you know they're asking for $10,000 but they're giving out multiple $5,000 year scholarships uh they also did Express that they would like someone from Durham to be on the board and so the fact that they asking for input on those decisions to made us feel comfortable with that Am AC so um the discussion is involved just just to follow up on the point I made to discussion regarding community service this is um there it was broken up uh a $2,500 request for Durham youth faceball and $1,100 request for the local snowmobile club check me if I'm Incorrect and a $2500 request from the Eds to help them pay for the purchase of a generator so if you have questions you'd like to ask regarding any of those components I welcome you to do so Jill

it's not a question I just want to reiterate um something that was said at the select board in regards to the AmVets um it's my understanding by listening to the select board meeting that when we use the Amvets Hall for our um voting that we are not charged a fee for doing that correct um so personally I

have no issue with helping them out because in a sense they've been giving us a great service at no charge so I don't mind showing appreciation back any other questions for Rich uh welcome a motion so how do we how do we not worry about the amounts

your motion is current amount if you feel that one of these one of these four should be the amount be reduced or eliminated your motion sure you should you should make a motion and then explain if the dollar amount is different from what is being requested then to explain what the difference is okay I I move that we uh recommend $8,700 for uh Community Services which

reduces I would reduce the Free Port scholarship to from 10,000 to motion I'll second okay it's been moved by Neil and seconded by Phyllis that we appropriate that would include $2,500 uh donation to the Durham Youth Baseball $2,000 to the Free Port scholarship fund $1,100 to the snowmobile club and $2,500 to help the ambest purchase a generator discussion yes so I'm thinking that this free Port scholarship donation is not you know how we get into the budget and it ends up being a repeated like built in year after year this is a one time

trying to get us up to the two million or is it going to be on goinging that's a good question goe I don't I don't think it's an eded amount just like I don't think that the amet generator would you know that that this is the kind of thing where organizations come to the board and ask for a request and then the board decides whether or not we want to put that out to the town okay and so in my opinion this would fall into that same category where these things would get broken out the same way that they have in the past like um the food pantry or aging Excellence those types of things and the town gets to vote on how much they want to fund any given line in that article so I don't see this as becoming part of our operating budget under any circumstances again speaking for myself right haven't had that discussion as board well they'll be back next year with the same amount but I I think hea is right we obviously we haven't but I

think I think it's implied anything like this it's not in perpetu has to come through the town every year if somebody wants something there's no there's nothing that's that we can grant in perpetuity for from a Town's perspective it's an annual budget we vote on it annually we couldn't just say we we hereby pledge 10,000 a year for the next eternity but it would have to be understood but I believe your question is is it anticipated that they they it will be requested it'll be a re reoccurring request you know I really could I mean you I mean it's it's easy to say I don't know EAS to say yes it's easy to say no I mean indicate that no I mean somebody may die somebody may die and leave exactly and then they might hit their thing and they might never need another fund I mean there's so many organizations out there so I would agree with Jane on that that it's for right now I I think the point is like it would

have to go before the board annually or excuse me before the town annually um it's based on if we get request anually correct if we get requested by them no we wouldn't just put it on there unless it's requested just like any one of these other entities we've had years where sometimes Derm has not or durm baseball hasn't entered in for any monies other discussion yes but they did request this last year it was is laate correct yes once they did request it last year and we said we would bring it to the town but it was too late to bring it to the town at that particular time we were we were well North into the budget season there was no way to right so they they so they did it once it was just late so now they're doing you know they're asking again we asked them to come back because there was no way for us to present it last year it was like I said we were already passed our deadline for you know our warrant articles Etc

and so moving forward budget committee meetings Etc yeah other questions discussion discussion CNN the motion on the floor is to appropriate $8,700 for Community Services broken down $2,500 for Youth Baseball $2,000 for the Free Port scholarship fund $1,100 for the snowmobile club and $2,500 for the amets in their purchase of a generator all those in favor of the

motion yes I'll make a motion that we appropriate $16,700 for other community services uh motioned and seconded that the town appropriate 16,000 [Music] $700 for uh other Community Services broken down $2,500 for dur Youth Baseball the full $10,000 requested for the preo scholarship fund $1,100 for the snowmobile club and $2500 uh help of Ms purchase generator

discussion fellas if there's a $600 for general assistance that's included in that amount correct okay you are correct thank you for putting that out thank you because I I missed that myself yeah thank you so can I yes so I just want to make sure that the people representing this scholarship fund will be present and they can plead their case to the town then the town can correct that's my understanding

yeah um I'm going to defer to um select Woman Roy over there okay yes we have to they don't live in Durham and so we have to to ask for permission for them to as as it's then they can speak but we we we did request for them and made them aware to put it on their calendar that they would probably I think it would it be ill advised not to show up that day if for that absolutely but I like to give the town the chance to make their own decision so um we'll see how well they

plead sorry their points to it um I do I know I realize I'm the one that made the motion but I do have one question um just to clarify if any decisions were made there was money being donated to the Union Church where is that falling is that under because I don't see it under Community Services where it's Fallen last and I'll and I'll refer to uh my colleagues hers on this one it's still we're still debating And discussing that as we left it at the last meeting that the issue with that is originally it was proposed um that the historical society would take over the union church and the monies that was already um granted to the church by the town in the past we could somewhat earmark that money and move it forward with the transfer of the property it gets a little sticky from an from the attorney's perspective um because those monies would have to be for public use and it's hard to pass the

straight face test of public use when there's there's no really parking over there there's only one means of erress there's no heat there's no um water there's no facilities for SE so one of the thoughts uh we had as a board was making charitable donation rather than moving it from that particular but it's still being discussed within the board uh we haven't made a clear decision yet that the Historical Society has and correct me if I'm wrong my cohorts they they they're willing to take this building I believe either way but we recognize that the town in the spirit of this building wanted money to go towards it um just hasn't been able to be allocated in in in a specific in terms of being U used for the construction or rehab of the building I think 2017 I want to say we had about $60,000 in there we've utilized in that time frame we've put on a new roof we've did some foundation and back work for I

want to say 16 18,000 we rebuilt a front porch we put in a gravel or excuse me a uh like a hot top walkway and things so there's been a significant amount of money spent over there in the last you know five or six years excluding the co years per se but the the building needs a lot of work there's no question we also did formulate a committee on that this year um to try to to try to figure out a better use for that particular building and their consensus also was to go this route and as far as the U donation of it to the Historical Society But to answer your question is under Capital reserves we're going to vote on it I guess okay it's not a capital reserve it would have to be voted on by the town There's no way it's not the money no matter how we give it to them if we give it to themine it's not going to be from uh the select board waving their magic wand it's going to go to the town okay

yes we did have a conversation that we may come back and ask you to revisit this question depending on how it gets um decided that either we're if we're leaning towards the charitable donation which um I I think it's important to also point out that if we do go that Avenue it seemed as though the consensus among the board about that conversation was that it would be facilitated through Jerry so in the past when the Historical Society has come to the board um to get the funds allocated it's been a process that hasn't always worked for them and so we don't necessarily want to put them in Fr of Bo again to keep coming back to get this money because that process hasn't worked in the past um if the town if we go the charitable route um and the town does um do that we believe we have duty to oversee that because it is taxpayer dollars that we are in fact donating and so they would be coming to Jerry with um invoices basically for the

work that they're having done and then Jerry would facilitate the payments so we wouldn't just be to manager okay but again that's that's still a discussion we we haven't formalized any plan whatsoever we're just we're starting to still work out the ins and outs from a legal perspective we're not right now our present discussion really should be focusing on the motion on the floor which is uh the 16,700 for community service well I guess my question is because Union Church could be here could be there could be in another SP should we even be voting on it this evening or should we wait for the select board to make their final decision it's not here so why here I think you should be voting on it because I it is it's not 100% guarantee just like what I just said but it would be a separate line item it would it wouldn't fall into this category okay okay I'll call the motion okay if you do that then I got to do

another I don't call same time I will and so it's been um the motion is to appropriate includes $600 for the general assistance fund $2,500 donation for Durham Youth Baseball $10,000 for the Free Port scholarship fund $1,100 for the S wheel club and $2500 uh for the Eds to help purchase a generator all those in favor of the

opposed 5 to three it okay moving on The Debt Service I we usually do we do yeah we we vote we vote that we recommend we pay our debts usually yeah that's that's more of a that's more of a town vote it's not necessarily falls under the line of just good practice of the government it's not necessarily anything that we usually ask to put on a refence referendum it's it's basically put on the referendum do you want to do you want this committee's recommendation on that um it can't hurt but I think I can

tell you I can tell you what the recommendation more than likely is going to be from the select board I'll make a motion that I have a question I'm I'm making a motion you can ask your question dur discussion I'll make a motion that we appropriate

$78,400 awesome and I'll I'll open it up for discussion question I I misre it I'm no no question all right discussion motion on the floor is to appropriate assessments and fixed costs you need a recommendation on that rich it's County tax and education yeah I don't see and their estimates anyways so that abatements and bad debt is nothing not us either other financing so now we're talking about um the transfers out which was broken down was Capital Public Works 205,000 fire department 180,000 municipal buildings

10,000 revaluation for assessing 60,000 Grant match [Music] 2,293 and here's where the Union Church um shows up for 9 , 543 Eureka Reserve 50,000 for a total of 5168 36 questions before start us off yes um so when the CIP committee

reviewed all of these requests the union church was not being donated or signed over to the historic we were still going to be owning that um and say that again Jill I don't think that's right when the CIP committee met oh c and we were going

over all of our request in there because of the union church so the union church is no longer part of our Capital reserves because we're giving it to but we can't put the cart in front of the horse mean meaning the town is Not Elected yet to get it so we have to prepare ourselves in case the town says no and that's why that money is in there okay is this cart after the horse question or is this cart going to be before the horse question which horse we talking about we got a lot of horses I know right the church are we asking the town if they want to keep the church or church before ask the town permission to

um we're not just I mean s board has it um they they could and legally they could give this without the town's consent but we we don't have any desire to do such a thing okay um so again if the town would per se say no we're we're keeping the building that's what the where this money would come into play because it would add that 9,000 they have an estimate to do some some more work there Etc probably speak better than that the application was for $50,000 has it been decreased down to $9,000 I think the 9,000 the 9,000 rounds up the 21,000 is already there to 3 30 31,000 correct okay so this application has been decreased down to $9,000 right it's not it would have to be a separate article if so if the if the

um Town decides no we don't want to transfer we keep it then there'll be an article to see if they want to spend out of capital that that amount of money what amount of money the money they're asking for okay so if we give a if we if the town votes to give the church to them the select board is still asking us for

the reserve no no just a 9,500 so so there's 21,000 change in their restoration fund and so in last year they raised 10,000 on the floor to make it somewhere around 31 well the idea is to give them that 31 so the 9,130 makes that 31 whole that's that's

the money that would be going okay so what was originally requested to the CIP has been decreased down to 9,000 no we just didn't put that on I we didn't add that to the capital request okay to the capital okay okay thank you for that clar I just say if it helps with the U where the 30,000 31,000 whatever it is came from the the UN Church committee which Neal and I were on um the thought was to somehow

transfer otherwise the building to the Historical Society with um the thought that there was 21,000 in reserves and at one one time 10 that 10,000 that have been approved so the town had already approved $31,000 I guess so part of the deal that

was recommended going forward was to give them the church plus the 31,000 that the town had already agreed to in previous things although I recognize they can they can change that so uh and the Historical Society wrote a letter accepting that deal that was part of the U the church committee's recation so

that's where the 30,000 31,000 comes from so I have two questions one for Jerry so if let's say the Tom votes not to I donate the church does that 9,543 become a mo is that that does that go to transfer it the town decides the town decides we're not giving the church away then I don't think they need to vote on that next article that the well the article includes 9543 currently would we would we then reduce that

was but asking don't decide to right then we still own it correct and we' probably want I think that's what Heather's going to say fund it so go ahead yeah if the town votes not to transfer the building there there's work that is within the next couple of your years becoming very emergent in terms of having it done and so the the

committee sees this as a um financial burden to the town to keep this building because of the amount of work that needs to happen um to that building if we vote to keep the building that work needs to be done in order for it to be able to maintain its National Historic register um whatever the word is that I'm looking for right so I think will $3,000 absolutely more but that's I think we're just looking to if if it wasn't if for say the town did not want to go that road we would be adding an additional $10,000 to the restoration does that make one last question does that so does that make the request from the historical group to the CIP committee does that make that request moot because or either that requ that application never made it to the budget okay so what Jerry just got it uh someone has a question else had a question yes I'd like to make a motion that we appropriate $57,000 20 no

Joe for the capital reserve account do I just tell us how you got that yes I there's going to be enough confusion around the union church I think it should be separated out in its own warrant article so this is just dealing with what is absolutely positively staying with the town and then the questionable stuff gets dealt with separately so you've taken 9,543 deducted from the 516 correct 836 to come up with 57,200 yes is said it better than that

is there a second on that I second NE all right for discussion it has been moved by Jill and seconded by Neil that the town Pro appropriate the amount of 57 which is funding the requested amount for Public Works fire department administration buildings assessing grants Eureka Reserve but is not funding

the amount uh requested for the Union Church open for discussion yes no so this is kind of a side our bylaws say we should be voting on warrant articles we need to change our bylaws separate issue um but we were just told that these are going to be separate warrant articles no we were told it's one war Artic no we were told it was going to be separate War articles correct I believe it's going to be separate articles I don't I don't we don't know what we don't know is so I I I would Envision does the town authorize the durm select board to you know um

donate the town or or or x to the town the Historical Society the town of the property that would be the first one um has nothing to do with this but no but it but it it eventually gets there right so because again it goes in regards to the hores like we we can't even get to that until we determine if the town is going to give the building away so we have to give the building away before but if the town in in the event the town says no we'll have followup we'll have follow there will be know void if the town says yes but there'll be questions therefore after that um the town can vote on if they want to appropriate more monies or something of that nature moving forward if they if they elect to keep it and just to confirm an earlier statement so there would be there would be seven articles covering the seven uh capital reserve requests no I thought that hadn't been decided yet yeah that that hasn't been decided yet and no what

what I'm saying is and and I don't want to confuse the two what I'm saying is in regards to the union church I don't know the exact number of articles that are going to be because we're still working on the language as we expressed earlier that we're not we're not 100% sure how we're even doing this when it comes to the monies at this point in time there will be one question asking the town if they want to transfer this property and then there'll be numerous questions there for after based on whether they transfer or they don't and I guess I made my motion because the union church has so many question marks around it and I like the idea of the capital reserve warrant being a lump some that lists below it because I don't like the the tug-of-war that's been occurring between the Departments when it comes to capital reserve so I like the

idea I like to i' like to speak Mr chairman I'm gonna go to Heather first I for again this is we haven't nailed this down I fore this looking the same way that the community service looks where we have our toal the things are itemized out underneath it and then residents have the ability to make a motion to well depending on if it's an open or closed article right change the funding based on the line but the overall amount that's why I want Union Church out of it in it in its own line warrant because there's too much confusion around the Union Church sorry all right so this is very problema individual warrant articles because if you if you pass if somebody wants to change one line I want to change for example assessing um if somebody wants to change fire department somebody else wants to change Eureka if one of these gets amended and passed that's it you can't amend anything else after that they need

to be separate articles so which leaves me to my point right now I I want to change a in I want to make 140,000 which would increase the total if we did it one yes yeah so how do we do that without voting your without voting your yours down and starting over I don't we would have to do that we have to vote yours now but what if it passes at at a meeting Tom meeting then I can't do

question like if I stood up at the town meeting and said I'd like to make an amendment and lower it by $99,000 and Neil's like but I was going to make an amendment to raise it do we have to have a powow and then get together and make one Amendment well you would make that Amendment and we would have a discussion and and nail could and during that discussion it could your motion could get voted down and then he could make his motion but I don't see how the difference in terms of these being combined would be any different than the social services line that we just discussed in terms of donations and so forth in one group I don't what would be the difference in doing it that that way versus this I mean what it seems to be six and one half dozen of the other $500,000 I mean you got to take the dollar amount out of it I understand that might be a big number and it is a big number I'm not I'm not but what is

the difference in in the actual practice in terms of how it is how it is um moved on the floor I think he was just afraid he wouldn't get the opportunity to suggested if they vot if they pull that Union Church piece out respectfully that could happen if they're individual

questions I would like to make a motion to retract my motion that's not too emotional will retract his second yes all right so no motion so you want to increase it by what and I want to increase decrease it by what so let's get together Mr chairman yes thank speak uh

yeah I want to increase I want to take everything that's needed for assessing and put it in an assessing account now because we have the money I want it there so when it's ready to go it's ready to go we could do it as soon as as soon as it's available I want to do it we had a 180 estimate which I think is low so I'm saying we put 140 in there which will bring it up to 200 there should have been another 60 in there anyway from the previous year which didn't get in there so it's really oh there's not 60 in there already yeah there should have been 120 well this is asking to put another 60 in right this that should have been the third 60 it's not it's the second 60 what happened to the last year what happened to the first last year was year before right I think we missed one year somehow yeah it went it went back into um fund balance it went back into fund balance into the general fund and one of and you

know what there's no guarantees that that won't happen yet why and the reason being is getting the actual company to do the assessment well I mean if we put it into a capital reserve you could do that we absolutely but you would have to ask also if you're going to do that and I I I really don't I I actually kind of agree with Neil that it's probably it's a separate question on its own um so I I don't I mean it's up to the board and you guys what how you guys want to roll with that but I get but there's really no it might be two years before we get a new assessment can I add you want to have the money available do you feel that there's a huge benefit to have that done yeah definely yeah I think because there's new houses that are not paying what they should be at this point ore H homestead exemption alone alone is worth it and it's you know we're in danger of getting dinged by the state you know you naughty

guys dur to get dragged together and I don't know the money is there it's not going any place hopefully jer's going to put in a CD next week for six months at 5% 5% yeah you should do that I agree with that that's that's may I recognize hether please thank you I think it's important for people understand what happened with the original um request for assessing this was a question that I specifically asked also this has been on the warrant for more than one year the way that we ask the question is where the money ends up if it's not spent in that year the way that the question was asked the first year because the assessment wasn't done it went back into the general fund the way that we asked the question the second year we asked it to umark it and put it in its own account and so that's why that money shows up in that count and did not go back into the general so the wording that's 100% right

so if you did raise another 60 in total in net total you you would have raised in the course of the last few years $180,000 and just just as a point of clarification this is not a capital fund the capital account it's a reserve right did I say Capital I'm sorry the title is capital somebody else did so yeah the title is capital on the heading so it's just Reserve account okay I'll correct that okay yeah so I just want to I just want to just clarify what Heather is saying so the first time it was asked it was to transfer out of the municipal account and since it didn't get done it lses back to it the second time it was rais an appropriate 60,000 so it got raised so it got put into the assessing uh Reserve do we have a ballpark or what a current estimate is going to be no but we should soon because we put that out a bid and I believe uh the bids are due April not April February 12th and we're

going to open them February 16th something sealed yeah is we sent it to seven people is your guess at Nails thought of $200,000 I I think it's G to be high I it's hard to it's hard to tell I know Poland did one it was unbelievable yeah Poland Poland did one there was thing in the paper is I think it was $412,000 to do a full assessment in Poland starting in 27 finishing in 28 right so you know

even if we approve it in 24 we're probably look looking at 26 27 27 to to do that and I don't think durm would be as high as Po and but a lot a lot of that expense is based on how accurate your assessing is how current your assessing is today and from my understanding our Sessa does a very good job so instead of having to do 100% she may have to only do 66% because of that other third is very

wanted to raise the assessing line by 140 thank you I want to make it 140 you want to make it 140 that's a difference instead of 60 I want to be 40 which would bring the account up to 200 so $80,000 above what that or not correct okay I would if it turns out if it turns out we get a quote that's 250 at Tom meeting if we're persuasive we can get the two the nothing to make it

motion that we appropriate 5 87,00 93 for the 2024 Reserve second it so the mo it's been motioned by Jill and seconded by philis that we appropriate 93 the change is that uh we reduced the request by nine by removing the Union Church request for

request we added 880,000 changing that from 60 to 140,000 so with with the deduction of the UN church with the increase of the assessing request comes to a total of discussion uh if we do that if we take out Union Church then I would like to have a separate uh article that addresses the 9543 for Union Church which I think Jill answers your concern that if we don't give it to him that dies for lack of interest if we do give it to them we can get this done on U April 6th or whatever it is is that so noted by S so noted I think we mentioned that our intent is to keep the union church with its own articles cool okay yes J I don't mean to

beat this to death I'm just I just need a clarification because I heard Neil say we have the money there so we have the money there money's in mom's bank account we got to ask Dad for permissioning to transfer it into Junior's account so we're moving it from the fund fund balance but if we do that if we move it no I don't think so because that's the capital reserve if we remove it from the fund balance and it doesn't get done it gets no it goes into it goes into the committed fund okay the committed I guess it's committed fun balance and it's there till we take it out right it's all in the wording yeah um so if if if the town appropriates it to a specific fund that's where it lies but if they don't if the money is not spent at the end of that you know fiscal period period I was going to say calendar but I don't want to start confusing um then the money would revert back to the general but if it's

allocated then it would it would stay in that specific uh class or classific okay so when you say we have the money it's in there's money in the general funds that we can pull from yes okay thank you any other floor is to appropriate 500

$87,200 for the 2024 capital Reserve account all those in favor all those opposed it's unanimous can we vote for some heat in the fire remember to turn it back to what it is please turn it on imagine discussion they want

proposed arpa well do we have to because I didn't think we had to vote on them but we we did at a special town meeting I think three years ago or two years ago I think we did last year at the town meeting I think it was part of the war special town meeting special town meeting we had a special town meeting the first like the co for the the co year that we allocated but last year we last April there was some some things on that but you do have to vote to use the money oh you do it's recommended is I think what the word was used that it would be recommended to have it loing on I think you the town Jerry would be able to answer this better I I do think the town uh select board probably could but it's like I said the wording I remember a couple years back was it's recommended to have the town board on in our form of government and what pages AR for on it's in supplemental okay thank

vote on that as a whole we had a couple last year we had a couple it was Article six and article 7even they were separated out okay Mr chairman I beow umy would like to add some comments to it before you may remember meeting there was ly discussion um by a resident about pulling out the um administrative gave

the select board the authority to spend the grant money that were issued um it ended up that the article stayed in and the town passed it so that the select Bo did have the authority to spend the grant money and it was specifically around the ARA budget and since that time um all of the votes that came after

it regarding arpa the select board has still put out to the town to to vote on they haven't allocated or the current board out of our without going to vot after that very ly discussion thate because it's recommended so that would means there would be three items that we would be voting on uh the fire department's request for uh

new maybe you can summarize for us what the for people who don't know what the cad dispatch is computerated dispatch computer yes it's uh essentially getting up to 2024 standards and being able to communicate appropriately with other entities in law enforcement and um um excuse me County dispatch County dispatch Etc um Joe Roy might have a

better thank you Joe um there's a lot of information that gets conveyed can be conveyed electronically that our First Responders aren't necessarily getting on the way to call uh notes you know call goes in the dispatch responds and they we get the call to go the person might still be on the phone with the dispatcher and giving them information like heart rates have changed fire condition has changed this building's now on fire and in order to get that information our First Responders have to then try to get back in contact with this badge whereas this all is on a computer system that shows up so as sitting in the passenger seat of the ambulance is heading to the call they can see oh since we've got a call to now the patient stop breathing or something's happened so they can adjust their strategy before they even get there and it's really a standard approach to um getting First Responders the full information before they get on

scene and while they're going to the scene so it's kind of bringing us up to the next standard most every Department's going Jill to add to what Joe was saying what I recall the chief also explaining is because of of like hippo regulations and things like that there's a lot that they can't send over the radio because as other people have said they love to listen to the scanners so they can't put that information out there it has to be sent electronically so what can easily happen too is that um

for he the example he used was the shooting in Lewiston they're being sent to facilities and they have no idea of where they're going there was an active shooter or not because they didn't want that information over the scanners um so

it's a huge safety issue for our fire department when they're going to a call along with giving them as Joe said time to kind of plan and rearrange instead of you show up at a fire and you're like so what's everybody doing is it marshmallow time or where are we here where we there you actually get that information on your

time um I'll take a motion on the cad dispatch for the fire department I will make a motion that we approve uh $25,000 for the fire department uh computerated dispatch system a $25,000 of Opera funds be used for the purchase of the computer aided dispatch for the fire department any further discussion have question yes so is this like a a program I don't know who is this a program that um is put into the

computer and it has to be upgraded every year or as changes are made and so there's a cost involved Joe I have the proposal right here if you want me to read it it might answer those questions but if you know it off the top of your head any any computer is going to need to be upgraded in three or four years it's it's probably good for three or four years it's going to die eventually it's it's when you add something like this you're going to add overhead so it's a maintenance item so it's a maintenance that's going to have a cost involved as my understanding is there's one notebook called a tough book by Panasonic and two or three U smart

he just said the description with the upgrade of our County dispatch software and computer system we will need to upgrade our apparatus to CAD computer AED dispatch this will give us real-time street views important notes and information from the caller for specific address weapons police on Route Etc

and water sources nearby currently we don't get this information until we get back to the fire station this it is the standard in the industry County dispatch is carrying most of the cost for the upgrades um is it mandated by law we will be upgrading through our accounting contract as they meet current standards so okay any other questions see none that actually I just want to add the current quote is is current quote and pricing for three trucks rescue 25 utility and engine 22 so to kind of clarify the point it's not just one workbook it's

it little bit I've heard any other questions uh the motion on the floor is to approve the spending of $25,000 of oper funds for the purchase of a computer AED dispatch for the fire department all those in favor all the oppos

codification she are you able to explain that or you want to I Got a Feeling rich and Jerry will be able to explain it better but I will find my notes on it at least I can explain it that a company provides to take our existing PDF document land use ordinance and make it a little prettier and a little easier to use as well as identify problems within the ordinance that we already know exist for example Alan when I first talked to about this said he had trouble interpreting Backlot information gave one answer to one guy differently than he gave another guy was frustrated he did this in Gray and um he liked the result my take on this is uh it's not

needed and that our current planner should be able to do this I've been in the land use ordinance paperwork or document recently a fair amount for appeals it's not hard to search on it works very user friendly it works and whatever problems there are guys know about for the most part they already know what they are they just need to fix them and if we weren't doing stupid things like solar panels and an ordinance thing that he worked on for a long time he could have been fixing this stuff already that's my take Rich do you want to add anything regarding the request for the land use codification um say the first part of uh

Neil's dissertation dissertation is correct it's it's more or less to you know ordinance by rights do have a little bit of interpretation left to them there there's legally involved and so forth but our ordinance at some point and in some Junctions within our ordinances just don't jive with the ordinance so the codification is to try to get our ordinances in line um I think

um if he may I think John probably could speak better to um and why this is you know this is something that the town the select board and many other towns also on top of our town um we really welcome this as a as a board from the presentation that we've been given John can you add anything if I may respectfully dis you know disagree with my colleague I'm driving tonight so

home I was trying to be it wasn't a long walk from going into my house but uh I I hear what Neal said the way he described it we have and I was I was not a supportive of this initially for a lot of the the reasons that Neil so eloquently listed um but I having looked

at it having actually used it a lot in my previous Life as a developer back in Indiana there are big advantages to to doing this our code is uh it is not necessarily easy to use uh and I guess maybe the easier thing to to do is explain Jerry invited me to a meeting with the the contractor and codes and planning and uh what we will get is for the 10,500 they will go through our ordinance they will take use that take a look at that ordinance use their experience their knowledge of state laws and so on and forth so forth and say here are the things that are in fact out of date um an example is the state passed a law that you must allow mini homes up to 400 square F feet on a lot so you know our mortice right now says the minimum size is 1,200 square F feet the state uh said no you you have to allow many homes uh up to 400 square feet in addition our mobile home uh section is out of date we are missing

pieces of U things that are coming up like the like solar batteries the things that that are whether we like it or not and we certainly will get a chance at the town meeting to to vote yeah or nay but there's a lot of things like the signage um section of the ordinance is is very out of date so what the consultant will do is he'll take a look at say okay here's your sign each article with or section within the land use ordinance and say that it just kind of disagrees it's cover it says this here it says that there um here they will not rewrite it for us I mean I it's a key point is that they're not going to rewrite our ordinance fores for us they will give us examples and say uh

and what what George the planner has been doing is he spends the time to go out and find good solar ordinances and so that's what whether do you believe there is such a thing as a good solar ordinance but uh um he did they did do that and so they'll put all that together they the other thing you get as an end product is a is a book depending upon how much your thing is but you also get and I think hopefully I send everybody a link if you get a chance to look at mechanics fault Mechanic Falls has already done this so if you have a question about signage or solar you can search solar and it'll pull up their section of the solar ordinance it would pull up our solar ordinance and like with the GIS mapping that we did it does count cut down considerably on the phone calls to to codes or planner or the office saying what is your you know what does your solar ordinance say make me a copy of it or I got to come in and get a

copy of it from you so I think there is there is cost savings to or Time Savings efficiency we'll also F find out where our glitches are uh in the ordinance and I'll close with I know you're anxious ask the question I will close with uh this isn't going to solve the problem as Neil said they're still they will like identify problems that the planning board will have to work on like solar like if the state comes up with a mini homes rule tiny homes I guess in the correct term we're going to have to amend our ordinance so the I'll turn it back to the chair so in in listening to everybody speak this evening um because I have to admit even being on the CIP committee it was a little confusing what would be presented or what we would get out of it so I just want to summarize what I'm hearing and people can tell me if I heard wrong please so Neil stated that he felt this wasn't needed because the planning board and

the planner already know where the problems are and John said oh he also said that the code enforcer has frustrations because if he turns to page and interprets that ordinance he gives an answer but then the next guy says well what about page five and realizes the answer should have been different

reinforce what Neil just said you gave us like 12 things that you already know is wrong with our ordinances so are we expecting surprises yeah I would say yes I would say you know those are things that we we are sort of on the short list but there are other things that we're going to have to to work on as well and then the other thing is we know solar batteries is the next big thing that's coming out there we've already had inquiries to the town planner where can I put a solar uh battery facility uh which are problematic in town if you know anything about them um and so he has to spend all the time researching doing that stuff they will give us an example of what other towns solar batteries and there New York has a lot of you have already written their things so yeah do we know some of the problems yes but would this help us organize them and prioritize them and also fix the glitches so the

sign they will look at it say signs you talk about signs in two or three different places at times is the code Guy believes and I agree with him that there are conflicts within that and so uh um we would then PRI we be the planning board uh solar Conservation Commission would then prioritize say we want to work on solar batteries we want to do this based upon the list and then you also get a good product which is a book that's updated in in a in a better format but you also get the ability to tie into the U to to go to your computer and search solar to search side AG so they'll make it electronic for us yeah which is a developer I used all the time I mean I it you know not necessarily our job to make developers life easier but it does save I want to come in and go through your ordinance with you to talk find out everything you know about or everything's in your ordinance About Soul much like they're doing now with

the gis system Rich yeah I think it just gives us an opportunity to know what we don't know but my initial reasoning for um putting up my hand was Miss Ro wanted to speak there's a couple points on this that like to number one is liability um everywhere that we'll just use a developer as an example can come in before the town and show that there

ambiguities in our ordinance that don't align with state law that puts the town at risk to be sued based on whatever the decision is that comes out of it this will highlight all of those areas where our ordinance is not in line with state law or where our ordinance says the definition of a home over here is this George has already clean this part up but and the definition over here is this and those two things don't align and then you end up going through planning board appeals board all of those things people hire attorneys and it's a mess um the second thing that Jill spoke about is that you know we have made a lot of the budget committee and the select board where I feel like we're really working hard to support our town staff um through our decisions in this process Alan has our CEO sorry I shouldn't name him our CEO has has told us that our ordinance makes his job very difficult to do and and this one act really is

what I feel the best way to support our CEO and being able to do his job correctly um the the last point that I would like to make is that what another town that went through this you know as we're we're going through our ordinance we we are so far behind we have taken so long to update all of these things we did Shoreland we did resource protection when we put Shoreland out in front of the Town it was not in line with state law right so we vote that down our ordinance is not in line with state law it doesn't make sense to not have an ordinance that's that's not aligned with what state law is unless we go restrictive right so those are the things that they're going to highlight when another town went and did this they they show this is your ordinance and then everywhere that there it's in red and it's available on the website for people to be able to go in they do the entire thing at once it's not this peace meal

of we're gonna do this article this year we're GNA do this article this year we're GNA do this article this year we get it done and it's like pressing the reset button so at the very least in line with state law and then as a town we can vote where we want to be more restrictive if that's what we choose to do I I think this is the most important thing personally that we spend money on this year sir if you would allow would you remind another one of my members Steve thank you yeah I was just going to say that we felt it was important to include this for a lot of reasons Heather just pointed out but also since we've switched over from a having Town manager to having Town manager the current ordinance is still when someone looks up it's saying that select board has responsibilities they're actually now the town managers responsibilities and things that are superseded by state law so part of the codification here is also

so that everyone understands the same Playbook you know right now if we know the problems that are wrong and we know how to handle them or the appeals board or the planning board knows where it's wrong the average person who just moves into town and opens up our land or doesn't know that they don't this part isn't actually right and so this is a really important thing for the price of $10,000 to do it we thought that that was better then gobbling up the amount of time it might take our town planner to go through and do these sorts of things or town code enforcement officer to go through and do it and we think that that $10,000 investment and getting everything codified would find us $10,000 worth of Staffing time throughout the next year or two freed up that they can pursue other more important and pressing issues that the town is pressuring or asking the staff to do so we thought that was um really

important just providing that clarity thank you I'd welcome a motion I I would like to if I may Mr chair just very quickly uh I want to make sure everybody understands this is not a one-step process so what we're going to get and it's I'm still supportive I still believe very strongly we should do this but our system requires us to for a change to the ordinance and addition to the ordinance many of you have sat in on the meetings we have to have informational meetings we have to have public hearings it has to go before the town so I think the way the town is currently staffed the planning board is set up it would be extremely hard to say two years a year after we've got the this codification we're going to have every every change necessary the dot the eyes cross the te's the ones we have to fix because it's in violation but codification isn't The Final Answer there's still a lot of work by conservation planning and other

people so when didn't it beho us to fix what we know is already broken since we already know that's broken and if we get a whole list of things by the time we get through the list that we already know is broken the surprises could be

outdated outlawed not applicable anymore I I would we are already doing that but there is so much bandwidth with a planner a part-time planner and a volunteer planning board and I Al on it I think we worked very hard as a planning board um but resource

protection took two years to get through solar may or may not pass but it's a whole year we start the process in the summer write the ordinance bring it before an information meeting send it to the select board who sends it back to us

they're kind of like the school teacher they're highlighting things in red and we still have to go and do the research to fix them they will give us the research for instance on tiny homes they will say you are uh not in compliance with the state law on tiny homes here's the reference for that here's an example of it from I don't know Mechanic Falls or somebody who has that law think a year and a half two years old okay so but they're not want to make clear that they're not going to write the or they're not going to give us a draft ordinance and even if they did it imagine getting that through the you know a whole bunch of changes through the the town meeting but you're saying they're giving us one we can copy and paste

the tomed floor is that if we weren't doing solar panels I suggested to the select board this year that they present an ordinance that we ban solar P solar Farms commercial solar farms and I do the same for battery things which are crazy we should ban them as a town if we did that they the the Don planner wouldn't have spent I don't know how many hours he spent on solar panels this year a lot and and I'm not complaining about the plan planning board at all they they work hard thank you um you can have a right on I I think if we took some of the stuff off the table right up front right up front why not just have one request that you ban anything that there's not an ordinance for well and then as it comes up we have time to make an ordinance do that a anyway that's that's my thinking on the whole thing we're getting off on a tangent here I don't think that's off on a Tang at all if if we had time to do this stuff it could be

done he's doing stuff that's not necessary point of order I'd like to I'd like to hear a motion and then have further discussion I will make make I'll make a motion that uh we agree with the proposed oper fund for land use codification with 10,500 second okay so now it has

been the mo it's been moved by Allan and seconded by John that we um spend $10,500 of oper funds for land use cific there further I'll call the vote uh the motion is to funds in the amount of $10,500 for the purchase of land use codification all those in favor all those opposed it's 62 moving on to Eureka

upgrades Rich can you give us a little background on that again this would um only be a going forward this would this would um put money if we needed to do more projects at the eure center moving board if the building was to come with us and it also um

Rec my apologies my apologies I thought you meant the church I got the church on the head my apologies yes that's for heating um uh couple years back we removed a propane heater um and we elected to go at that time with a few heat pumps last year if you recalled um

I don't know if it's the coldest week on but during the coldest week on you know record um we had a pipe freeze Etc and it had some damage done to it the heat pumps depending on the specific heat pump the one we're using right now they are rated to go up to depending on which uh refrigerants in them up to maybe Min -4 or minus 20 some of the new ones can get down to minus 24 but there is a recommendation for a backup heat um

so I think that's what that's what um this money was going to be used for and again my apologies I for some reason I was was told I don't know where it is I can't find it now that that was for two Rai heaters now that's very high high

figure that $9,100 is very high so if it comes in a lot less than that is money go do you know do we what do we do I think that money was allocated to to B to to end the to spend all the oper money if I'm not mistaken it's gone at that point it stays with Eureka yeah really if you don't spend it within a certain time frame you have to send it back yeah the money I mean we let's just say we didn't spend it and the money was allocated from the we're using it for from offer funds right um if we didn't use it there would be going back kind of how this is opera account um and if that money is not utilized by x amount of time then we would lose it but I mean we could probably find something you know that we could put towards this if if by chance we didn't utilize it all the yes the number is derived from a direct quote that Calvin received for what the heaters would cost I know exactly what they cost I got another quote that is

high very high to inst so sometimes when they're looking for quotes they kind of find the highest personal around I think In fairness I mean if we I don't know if you got a quote specific to that particular building yeah I mean there's so many variables like for example you know new construction you know you're seeing mostly these and then you would in cold days you would have a uh secondary source of heat typically an electric baseb is coming yes um but as as far as

you know we don't know what we're comparing to Apples to Apples I mean we contractors can vary commercial contractors versus residential contractors um BTUs of the size of the system I don't know specifically what Calvin is using based off what you're proposing um so there's a lot of variables in there so I I think it's I don't know if we can necessarily In fairness say it's high but you are saying that should the two heers the cost not total um the $

still be used on Eureka repairs not necessarily because it would be arpa funds well that's what I'm saying it is AR fund so if we don't spend we could utilize it on a new repair for the Eureka cor still go toward ureka still got to be yes correct do you want to recognize Heather yes Heather I think it really just comes down to the warning we're not going to specifically put r heers on the warrant we would put to upgrade the heating at the eure center and so maybe that's insation maybe that's you know it would be all encompassing

it towards any type of up we wouldn't be able to go put that money towards the foundation per right because you're you're asking you have to that so it would have to beting but it wouldn't necessarily to a window that leaked or a door that leaked or something to help if I may it says Eureka upgrades so if you use that verbiage you can use it for heating or window your insulation or whatever

like part of it that comes into play where Jerry do you want to speak to that yeah it's it really is I mean we put heat because I mean folks that go in there in the winter time are cold I mean and everyone that even when the electricians were in there they asked that was the main heat and he said yes and they're like that's not sufficient heat which everybody is saying so the reason why I put in Eureka upgrades the Eureka um is in has more need for money than we have money so we have 9,130 left that can go towards heat you can put it towards anything in Ure you want um but heat is an option because

folks that use that have been complaining that they're cold in there welcome a motion yes Char I'll make a motion that we approve 9,130 for Eureka upgrades using that word specifically uh that's it for the AR y second seconded by

Allen so the the motion was made by John and seconded by Allan that um we use 9,130 of arera funding for Eureka upgrades any further discussion seeing none uh we voting on the motion to use $913 of Opera funds towards Eureka upgrades all those in

okay what is left ask a question yes the way we've been wording these motions do we have to go to the bottom line of what's being transferred out of fund balance or is our wording such that we've worded it all I mean I know I made you to transfer is the wording I use but it goes Richard goes back to a discussion we had yesterday with the the explanation by Joe of transferring 500,000 from the from the reserve fund to help offset so is that something that we we have that I believe that your question do we get do we is the budget Comm have the opportunity to give its recommendation on that and where do I see that in this to do I wasn't talking Reserve funds I was talking about where we're where we're how we're paying for the budget okay I have a different question from hers my my question is different from hers so I guess I'll let you address again normally when we have the warrant articles it says raise blah

blah right transfer from undesignated and we really haven't we haven't specifically been doing that so do we need to have a bottom line vote or is it inferred that we plan all of this to be transferred I think we're the you know as far as your duty to the town if the select board is recommending you know let's let's just use half a million dollars to be transferred out you would you would make a recommendation towards that whether you agree with it disagree with it or maybe you want more I don't know um so I do think that it would be um your obligation to make a a recommendation on that so is that the is that the line on the first page here the 500,000 is that the transfer we were talking about yes plus the addition use of fund balance that that was this going to be like an article a warrant article yes it was Article 16 last year so we have to take a break and add up all of our numbers no yeah because you

increased for assessing I decreased oh right so I did that math for you while you were all talking good job what did you come up with so I came up with you added an additional nine um out of the whatever it was the un Church the Union Church the 9,543 and then adding another um look

that at 14 80 was it 880,000 to the assessing so okay well then that brings me back to John's point that the union church needs to be its own warrant that draft warrant that we're voting on tonight so I guess that might be where we're headed but that that could be stated that we're going to transfer and not raise I would think but then it would increase our number it would make it 580 right so we could do that separately just it would be a transfer yeah but we still have to do it so I make a

motion that we transfer from the fund balance or appropriate from the fund balance 9,000 $543 for the use of Union Church repairs if we keep it yeah if it hasn't been donated how how am I supposed to word that rich as I said I don't know an

hour ago like we we even our board has not come up and defined those yet as far as how that wording is going to um uh come about we so going through that process we've been we've been working with the town's attorney we've been working with Jerry we've had discussions um but we haven't formulated exactly how that's going to break down because of that that that that specific question right there and also the monies how we can legally give that to them um that let's say that $30,000 um we haven't necessarily come up with wording like that so I would think after Tuesday's meeting we would come up with that and then you guys guys would unfortunately have to make another recommendation off of that okay then I think I know a motion I want to make I would like to make a motion that

we use $580,000 out of the fund balance to pay for the 2024 budget 580,000 the additional amount that we put into assessing of $80,000 and if Union Church happens to be voted down then we get to see a 0.00000000 z zero 1% decrease in our tax

I second that motion so we Jill and seconded by Neil is is that we use $580,000 of the fund balance towards uh this to the 2024 discussion John and that includes the reserve the 9,000 Church yeah 9 9,000 okay that's it cover it yeah yeah cover it yeah and if for some reason the votes it down then like I said whatever 9,000

is divided by how many residents we have here is what we'll save on our taxes other discussion I'd just like to bring up again just he I'm not sure I heard very many I didn't get any input from it yesterday when I presented the idea of the necessity of of of presenting a a zero or very this you know whatever we

don't know what the increase will be in the tax rate because we don't know what the school budget will be or the county but my I I presented the IDE idea as positive it sounds to present as far as a municipal budget a 0% increase in the

lot of objection if people saw a 1% increase even a 2% increase for that matter and I know the money is there I being um very conservative um I I I don't see the what's imperative about coming to the town with a with a0 % and then you know I don't know how many years it will take before now we have to be be asking for

significant increase in taxes I to me if we came back to town and and it was it was a 1% increase um I think we'd be cheered just as much as if it was if if it was Zero um and it just means using a little bit less of that fund balance to just assure us that that that amount stays healthy so I'm looking for

people's outlook on or intake input on that yes let John go first I think I think I said this I think the standard practices for municipal government is either three months of reserves or 18% 16% whatever is we are way above that I mean we have 2 or excuse me $3.7 million

2 million is kind of on a highend of what we should keep as a safety net we need to do something with that one point I don't see what to raise taxes when that money is there is well above what the standard safety net is we are also doing things I think to protect what what your concern which is a legitimate concern is avoiding that because if we're going to commit to two uh $500,000 a year maybe it comes from taxes but if we steady fund fire trucks and dump trucks that we should avoid that Spike of 8% and we may sit at one or two% so that's I think we've got a safety now and that's what I'm thinking I mean it just ensures that the the flat funding strategy will work if if we

can limit just a little bit more of that fund balance save that back I I can remember years back and there's a number there's another member of this board who has who was with me back in the days but we used to dip it and I know that case in point I mean we have we've raised a lot of we have a lot of excess money but there was a point in time that I can remember that we did offset the budget

with the reserve funds and one day we were looking at a huge tax one year we were looking at a huge tax increase because we couldn't we couldn't be transferring that monies anymore and we raised our taxes were going up you know significantly for quite a few years after that nobody wanted to touch the the fund balance was called something different at the time because we wanted to build that back up again so you know having gone through that experience um and again and I like the idea of the flat funding but by by just taking a little bit less out of the the fund balance I think J that just sort of helps improve the odds that balancing will work over the next 10 years yes so I did hear you last night I've only had 24 hours to talk to constituents and they would like to have a break this year they understand maybe next year it might go up one or two% but they'd like to have a break this year um

because we do have so much in savings and because they're already taking advantage of the six Monon 5% CD which the town isn't taking advantage of so they can make more money if they keep the money than if they give it to the town right now um

and I think to your point what I would like to put out to the department heads in the budget this year um that's not really sustainable every year going forward because we are going to use up our savings so we definitely need to you know as Neil stated try and get a more accurate budget versus a padded in areas budget

um and Jerry is looking to see where I got my amount I took line I guess that's property tax levy that I did so you could go right on the first page I okay take the 23 budget what line the total funding requirements that one those but NE they're not those actuals AR actual actuals okay so it's but it's more than 6% grow yeah yeah we can argue about okay

so it's about $600,000 6 still a lot of money Jerry that's you know it's it's okay um I right considering inflation wasn't 6% it's a you know it is something that we I think we do have to keep our eye on we can't keep growing and growing and growing because we will end up at a tax hike at some point and I think it's worth monitoring and keeping an eye on but I think this year the town's people do deserve a break and we don't know what the school budget is going to be either right and you're saying a break we're still getting taxed a lot we're one of the highest Mill rates in the area you can't compare Mill rates Mill rates don't I realize that app well don't make that comment then to me if if if if I I I I was part of the

stabilization program so I positive what the increase in taxes last year I think it was three something how much taxes it went went up last year not not from our budget but combined with the municipal and the school budget I think think it ended up being right around that three and a half somewhere in that Mark but the school but the town's budget yeah has been relatively I would call it flat the last three four years so point I was leading to was if we went from a three and a half% increase to a 1% increase that's given the town a break and it's it's again it's securing

our future I don't necessarily disagree with you but just just to clarify the 3 and a half% we we the 1% added doesn't necessarily mean you're not going to get another three and a half 4% from the county in the half from the school right I'm just saying is based on the municipal budget right now five my understanding is $500,000 was the amount that we keep from having a zero tax I don't care if we just change it by $100,000 Ju Just so that the the the there there's an increase in how can you everything costs more than it does a year ago how how how we're not living in a re in a realistic world for taxes not to have gone up now no one wants to see their taxes go up four five six% but if from our point of view it went up a half a percent I'm saying I'm comfortable with a 1% that's more realistic and it's still giving the town a break from three and a half% then then then nothing I I I just don't see the need to to to to do a

zero% I make it as make it a minimum make say make it something small make it something really every other time will be envious but it still should go up a little bit that's reality nothing costs the same this year you know very little as it did last year I I think I the only thing I would add to that is like for example example last year's budget didn't didn't move too much not simply because we were you know Penny wise or anything of that nature but we added $10 million of evaluation that's where that money came from it wasn't that the services didn't increase and things of that nature it was just the evaluation of the town and that somewhat kind of coincides with your point to the the mill rate the mill rate doesn't really have anything to do with what the town owes or anything of that nature I mean that that mill rate let's say it was $40 but you're only being assessed you know 30% of the value of

your home so it's all relative to what yes I did missp speake I apologize so I mean I I hear what you're saying M but at the end of the day if we we save 1% on a $10 million budget that's $100,000 you had the $100,000 out by everybody in the town that's you're not going to sa too many pennies I recognize I I I understand what you're talking about some of those years when we we had some very high in increases in taxes but I believe an awful lot of that stemm from us not having a capital Improvement program at that time and we are much more proactive now and anticipating what our expenses are going to be versus not doing that and then all of a sudden that particular year you had a massive expense out there and you had to pay for it all within that one year versus saving it a reserve account Don if you I don't know because if you tell the people and I've told I've told them just to see what their reaction is that their

taxes have never been increased no different than me are you crazy look at my bill every year my bill's gone a couple hundred dollars it might have been due to the school people don't care it's their tax bill they don't care if it came from the school the fire department they don't care where it was the tax bill was increased that's all they know that's all they care and I don't blame them that's what they see that's what they know and for you to say they're not getting an increase and they're staying level and they're staying flat to town not the tax yes but the tax bill themselves different yes but it's not to a person that lives in the town when you tell them that their taxes have never gone up their tax bill has never been raised they'll say like everybody else i t you yes it has it went up $200 or $50 or $70

and it might have been and it was all because of the school it doesn't matter and not only that it's gone around a lot and it's been told a lot the last three weeks that we have over taxed been over taxed for quite a few years so I guess just to leave it flat one more year because you know there is like he said these are estimates he's working on it we don't know where we're going yet we're still trying to get it so then next year see how much fluff there was how much extra there was and then consider maybe that but I think for this year you worked hard you're going to hope and pray to get this Capital thing approved you're going to hope for a lot of other things how about if we just plus the budget did increase the budget did unless you know the town the Durham is looking for headlines um I am not aware of a town that you know has a 0% increase so if all these folks that you're talking to would

prefer to live in a town that had that that's offering you know zero increases in taxes I don't know where they're going to find that town in our state I recognize Neil uh so just how would you accomplish what you're asking by reducing the transfer from general fund shrink it by yeah I would shrink that amount I don't know what the number would be and and and like I say ju just something so taxes go up a tiny bit so that it's a real it's realistic taxes go up is is it like what is that saying there's nothing more there's no guarantee there's nothing guaranteed in life more than death taxes but so I mean we're going to get the same headlines I think if it goes up a half a percent it goes up 1% but it but it's a real it's still realistic then to say it's not going up so I'm just yeah that's what I'm saying just reduce that but I don't know what number to so I think that I mean it's all estimates but the the county tax and

the school education line to me are way underestimated they they alone could give us a tax increase so we hit one anyway maybe we don't know yet but this is true they usually do In fairness they usually do I mean the school I think is average about 5% um count County went up aot little bit more this year than in previous years I I would say they'd be in line with what we're doing we 6 s% increase they'd be 67% you know so Richard or or

Jerry so let's say that the county went up five or six% and the school went up 5% what would that do to our tax rate if we stayed if we the municipal budget is zero and but we we get hit with the five or 6% from the county and 5% from the school what that to about we have to plug it into the the poet gu well what is it

so that's where Kevin had always used 3% in those in his spreadsheet every year so I just carried that that's why I did it um and I don't know I actually went a little higher cuz he went three and three and I put four on the school because I figured they would be going higher anyway so I think they did that last year 4% like watch our television they were excited it was only 4% so I'm trying to keep it real and I I just want to make one point if the town decides they want to go to a fiscal year July 1st to June 30th we'll know these numbers when we're putting our budget together so we can get a little bit closer is that going to be on a warrant I mean yeah I have a warrant I have an article drafted to see if the town wants to do that I haven't talked to the select board if they want because the can actually say J just do it I don't know if they'll do that or not but there is a warrant article D which is of

your opinion that if we were to keep the municipal part of this at z% what what role would that play in going through this transition you mean the transition as far as the calendar year yes is that what you're saying would that make the financing go a little easier I don't I don't know if I could answer that even remotely close to being accurate I it would be a total I couldn't I couldn't answer that with actually putting it does because you're more in line with the state and you're more in line with some of these um and you're more in line with the county and not only that most companies like our fuel bids and things like that they're on our calendar year too so we like in April we'll going on a Cooperative bid for our fuel prices those change in July so when

we've estimated the fuel this year we can we know what the first 6 months is we don't know what the next 6 months is I I understand that's why the finances get better because we'll be able to kind of that I understand I wonder just about as far as taxes it is it is it going to be easier to I think you I think you'd see like most towns you'd probably have two tax bills right you'd have a 50 the first exct say is it will this help the transition if we were to keep the municipal budget flat will it help I think it really much matters you still paying a tax it's not like you get a zero tax bill I think all it helps is it it helps rather than forecasting you can actually like some of these numbers in here they're they're they're essentially a hypothesis we don't have the exact number because we don't have we don't even get all the bills until mid January from last year per se or even some of them come in this week or in February so

I think that's where from a budgeting standpoint I think it would give much more clarity moving forward than how we do it currently I I would be in favor of doing it by all by all means um but I I think the biggest component that it adds is is Clarity moving forward and and being able to budget more appropriately Jill so I have a question and a point I'd like to make the question is I haven't been able to to research this but I was told that the town can actually be penalized if we have too much in our fund general fund balance is that accurate I've never heard that okay all right and then the point that I would like to make Milton is if you look at what has been transferred in the past out of fund balance I know it's got renamed everybody's changing their pronouns but um it was 480,000 in 2022 we did

increase yes but it's not like we were doing 80 and now we're talking about 580 okay point and the biggest difference is we a lot of that 500,000 is just move it from one Reserve account to another or from a ledger you know where it's in savings to a name savings fire Municipal whatever it may be so it's still kind of so if it all goes the Hell in a hand basket the town can vote to transer out of fire out of Public Works if they want to very true so there is a motion on the floor yep any further discussion could you motion yes the motion is that we uh transfer $580,000 from the fund balance for use of the

2024 budget all those in favor all those just was going to oppose it make such a stink about it just go on record at least we had the discussion yeah thank you everybody I think that's it is there any I ask one question that totally um

you had stated something about um the solar fields to if we could put a line or something instead of doing all the work for this book see if the people first might say no we don't want solar Fields so we don't have to do all this work is that something yes that was yeah I I I suggested the select board put a article in the warrant that we bans commercial solar farms and I would add commercial battery Banks or whatever they call them explode great so is that something said they do they they didn't respond so I don't know you can do it I if you don't want solar Farms you can still do it the work is done with the exception of the slug board uh sending us for changes so 90% of the solar Farms are done you're not going to save any work what I'm trying to say I'm going to encourage that conversation for once this meeting ends it doesn't pertain to the budget um just uh just in

uh Rich referred to the fact that there we there might be a reason for this committee to meet once more um in the in the survey that asked you for your availabilities everyone indicated that last Thursday um and I don't have that date I can't would be next Thursday but I think it was the Thursday after that that everybody indicated availability 14th I think so my thought is I'm not available February 14th I think that's a Wednesday I th right so I believe it was Thursday

the 15th possibly so last I knew that everyone had on that survey indicated they were available that date just keep that in the back of your mind I'm not scheduling it I'm not reserving that date but you might want to watch the select boards meeting next Tuesday and we'll know after that if we have to use that date why would we have to meet well I I I I think I I think you should weigh in on you know what whatever um we come up with for the

numbers and how we propose the funding if if funding is included after the select board meets in regards to the union chur warrant articles for the warrant articles that I I think it it probably Encompass you know three four questions in 10 15 minutes a time probably but the the the hammering out is going to be probably on our end on the 6th I believe is when we meet next February 6th

yeah just a reminder started CL old business and go through beg you pardon I said why use Arles are now old business they go first yeah yeah we yeah that ABS I think that's he he makes the agenda so speak any other matters to come to the budget committee if not I'll accept a motion motion to second second all those in favor thank you [Music]