TranscriptSelect Board Meeting ~ February 9, 2015

planning that we could so that you could get out of here till the next meeting. Yeah. Till tomorrow. All right. I'd like to get out of here. Is there uh I know they predicted something for Thursday night and Friday. The news I just was listening to the news on the way over here and they were saying that it is supposed to they called it likely a near miss. It is supposed to track south of New England. Russ Merly said looks like it's coming a little closer than what the original

that's what I heard on that. Okay. That was just like just in the car driving over here. But I'm going to go with that one. Is there any anything else predicted out from that Sunday? Yeah, maybe something cuz I'm hoping to go to Canada this weekend, but

Huh. I'm hoping to go to Canada this weekend to see my grandfather. But yeah, we'll see. They're going to have less snow than if you were going to Boston [laughter] right out of Boston or Portland. I'm not going anywhere.

Driving. Driving. Uh, no. Driving in Canada. Nova Scotia. Yeah. Yeah. Nova Scotia's picking it pretty hard this. Yeah. Because some of I actually saw a good video of a train going through New Brunswick. I don't That's pretty cool. [clears throat]

Mo moving something that heavy with not being able to see see a thing. I know. The windows are right. [laughter] I did hear that the crash in front of the getand go was on YouTube. Yes, it is out there. It's getting a lot of hits on YouTube.

I love the guy turning into too. He just kind of pauses, waits for the car to go by, just goes in. [laughter] Looks like it's a truck. Maybe it's Mark. Good. How are you? Good. much. Paul Chase. Paul Chase. Dave. I was thinking the right last name. I don't know why I came up with David.

That's all right. Recently, but that's what you're saying. Um, you're glad I'm showing up for a budget meeting. [laughter] Well, I've been trying to get here for two months. Things keep popping up. Our schedule's been pretty far.

I can imagine. I appreciate patience. I don't have anything. So, unless you guys have questions for me, but happy to Yeah, we're just we're doing a budget workshop on the budget tonight. I'm sure you're up to your eyeballs in budget discussions these days. in the tax committee too.

You've been a made aware of the uh conflict between the between the county and the budget Anderson County and Anderson budget committee and the towns and stuff like that. Yeah, it's an interesting Yeah, it's an interesting topic.

Definitely want to hear whatever. Oh, you know what? Last time I saw you, you were I roof. I my last one, too. Yeah, don't blame you. at first and I thought, well, that's a little cavalier for a budget meeting. [laughter]

Pretty good idea, though. Bring more drink. That'll be for the next budget meetings. Thank you. I'll call this meeting to order. We do have four out of the five selections. So, we have a quorum and we're doing budget workshops again. Um

Sean has to be at the panel selection meeting by 7. So, we'll go straight to roads to look at that first. So, this one something. Yeah, those are the ones that changed and so she gave us new ones for anything that changed and I believe there is a new roads one in there.

Yep. And more information. I know we've been through this one. Yeah. And I know that there's not a lot in it that we we can reduce, but I also feel like we are increasing it and That's as close as I can get to the difference between um so

last year we actually cut uh 50,000 out of it. Um and that was basically the paving line. Yep. Um so 2013 was uh 1,252581. Uh this year right now what we have proposed is 1.291 million. And so it's roughly uh 3% increase from 2013 roughly. It's a little bit more. And so so just so that that's that's as close as I could come. I think I probably missed a couple of items under 2014 and 2013 because we were pulling from all sorts of different lines.

Right. And and you know my my one sort of underlying thought in all this is that we have stood repeatedly in front of the residents of this town and said starting our own [clears throat] public works department we it is not going to cost any more money that we are going to do spend the same amount of money and hopefully get more work done. So that's sort of just I want to make sure that we are staying under our previous spending.

The only thing to take into consideration on that is the plowing budget was increasing by 5% each year along that line. So um if we had continued that route into 2015, we'd have been we'd be uh uh probably well over where we are.

Okay. Making that argument a couple years into it. I'm a little bit uncomfortable making that argument in year one. So, you know what I mean? And just to, you know, I feel like it's important that we we live up to to what we said about what the numbers were going to be, particularly as we present the first full year of a public works to already be kind of making excuses why it's it's creeping up over

I think really cuts into to our credibility. I mean, I I did look through a couple of these things. I found a couple lines we might be able to and uh but first because it's the first thing on here with the labor um Ruth put together something that gave us several options to look at for for labor

and that would uh and depending on which option we go with we might be able to actually um save some along there And it depends on how we look at, you know, how many how many months of winter we look at. And absolutely. And I don't mean to suggest that there's anything

extra. I mean, I've I've looked at budgets for this town for several years now, and I think our budgets are pretty pretty lean, but I also know the so push back and and you know what I I mean I think I think we can look at this and see [snorts] if there's one of So, which one did you propose to us? Two. Was that the original proposal? Uh, well, I I I changed the proposal and and what I came up with was what's in the yellow and and it's basically a mix between proposal four and six.

It's um that Yep. Oh, you just passed it. It's the one that has the road commissioner stuff on it, too. Y should have it right after your road your roads thing. Mark that right here. Yep. Ah, okay. Now I the first thing you need to look at is is are any of the guys going to get any raise? I mean because that's that factors into it.

I I imagine we will be looking at something. I mean at least looking at it. Okay. I don't know how much. Okay. Um I I factored in a 3% raise. Um so what I did was I took the two options I did it several ways. I I did it how I explain this. [laughter]

accumulated in January and December. Well, last December, this January. Um and obviously, uh they were pretty nasty months. Uh December was $30,000 worth of payroll. January was $33,000 worth of payroll. So if you figure [sighs] depending on whether you figure four months of winter or five months of winter depends on you know $30,000 one way or the other. Um so if I take 3% raise and this is assuming that the guys don't work any overtime during the summer. Part-time people don't work anytime over the summer except for um Parker who does the

the parks and stuff like that and and possibly uh we were thinking looking into the mowing. Um, so the difference between the options are between a fivemonth or a fourmonth winter. So 4 months at 30,000 or 5 months at 30,000

So question for Sean. How often do you think you'd expect us to be at that 30,000 33,000 um in a in a in a typical winter? Would we be at that all five months, all four months, or I would say no, but um defining a typical winter.

I I mean, I know things fluctuate, but but you usually don't get slammed five months in a row. Usually no. Usually no. Um but the patterns have changed over the past few years, but you know, it's I mean, is how about kicking the guys out after 40 hours if there's going to be good weather? Um,

I mean, if there's I know snow plowing is snowplowing and they got to get overtime. I understand that. But if you tap out 40 hours in three days, the next two days of good weather, long as the equipment is ready to rock and roll again.

Yeah. Um, I hate to see a guy come in, get overtime, and wash a truck. Yeah. But I also I hate to have these guys come in and and be on call from November through April. Um, this is why they do it, you know. They do it for the overtime and the winter time. Um, and I I I'm not saying no. I'm just saying

everybody has to stick to it. I mean, our budget like like like we're saying is is is over and we got to I think we're going to have to look for some some way to tighten it up. I I don't want to take away from the guys at all. They're doing a great job, but

then again, I don't I don't want to say have a free day of overtime washing trucks when Yeah, we could tighten up. We can tighten up on the budget a little bit. We do we do have one advantage over some is the fact that we're a calendar year right now. So, we know uh you're typically the dece November, December typically aren't really terrible um right

and so on. So, you already know after you've gone through your first part of winter whether we're going to be whether we're going to be really close to it or not. And we could do something such as um you restrict hours for a couple for

couple weeks in the summer, you know, something like that to be able to save if because we already know what what what it's going to look like. So, um, if we if we do do something that's a little less, we have that flexibility

and and maybe also do kind of a hybrid of of what Mike is talking about of having build in a certain amount of overtime, but do a balance between some overtime and some um just if if it's going to if we're going to have nice dry weather and people have been plow I mean some at this point they'd probably prefer the the time off than

No, I don't want to take away from the guys. I mean, 40 hours is what we promised them, and that's what they need to support their families, and that's what I want to get. Oh, absolutely. A couple weeks ago, they got about 100 hours in that week, but I think most of the daytime hours that they would have been there, they were there plowing anyway.

Yeah. I mean, that that's the thing is is uh what's happening right now, even though there's a lot of hours and stuff, is is truck maintenance isn't happening. The trucks aren't getting cleaned the way they need to be getting cleaned. Um I I'd rather look other ways. I do need to say before we get too far into this that that I didn't build this budget with any target in mind.

I went on historical numbers. Um I weren't trying to come in at a certain percentage or anything. So I'm wide open to looking at any areas that we can look at. Well, that's why I want you to do the budget, too. I don't what you need.

Um [clears throat] I mean, the two lines that I was looking at before was fuel account and equipment maintenance line 31 and 32. And I was looking to see if we could take five out of each. And um my reasoning for the equipment maintenance is uh last year we spent 35,000 uh it's a 51% increase and I realize we only had part partial year but I 33% on top of the 35,000

months. Yeah. An extra four uh months would be approximately 12 or 13,000 increase. So that's where I was looking. I I I did 13 just to give us a little bit more. So that would make that line 48,000. Um, that was one thought I had for a little bit.

I noticed that too for four months. That was a big big jump for four months. I understand it's probably the worst four months you you're trying to plan for, but I I wondered about the um instead of tripling the the small tools line from 2,000 to 6,000, could we double it and save a couple thousand there, too? Well, we've spent 3500 on in on eight months last year.

Minor equipment, I guess, is what? So, four, if you uh progra projected that out, that would be about 4,800. But we were starting from scratch. Yeah. And this I know he So, I would expect that number to be quite significant.

He mentioned uh last time that there were several pieces of equipment that you were looking right at to and then and then in the next year, but we could we could spread it out over two years maybe. I don't know. Well, yeah. My only point is that there I'm sure that there's tons of equipment that would be great to have, but but can we spread because we are a new department starting from the ground up. Can we spread some of those purchases out over time? Maybe we don't start with the dream tool chest. Maybe we start with the workable tool chest and then move on to adding things over time.

Or maybe right or maybe these are critical things that that you need to have. we did last year. We went for not the dream tool when we start when we bought the mechanics tools for the shop. Scott's got his own tools, but when we got stuff for the shop.

Um, and really it's not I mean I'm open to that, you know. Um, but I don't want to be cutting funds that we need to to really get to do you remember you actually had some specific things you mentioned the other day. Do you remember what chop saw, hydraulic press, need a good bench grinder and that's you know that stuff's not a lot of money. All all said, you know, um [clears throat] what do we have a a a place in mind where we would like to be with this? [clears throat]

Listening to what Sarah said, she'd probably like to be about the 1.25 million from 2013. You can't count 2014 because we purposely went low. We we we gouged the paving, so we can't go with that one because we purposely went low. But you'd like to be

what everything was going to cost and we Yeah, you'd like to be somewhere around the 1.25. 25 million. Yeah. I would like to to be telling the town that we're not spending that we've started this new department and we're not spending vast sums of money more than than

and to be honest 3% over two years is not a vast sums more but we would like it closer. I think also when we when we projected this and put this out to the towns people we did put out part of 2015 because had we gone and renewed the contract for one year, which was what we was thinking about in the fact that this didn't come through was part of that 2015. That would have been part of that 5% increase. So,

I don't think we're trying to buffalo them on anything as far as and tell them something that ain't fact is that's the fact of what was going to happen if we didn't lose something. So, I I think you could figure that that little bit extra in there.

So, in there and you're still on track of what you what we was telling them. So, so is is everybody okay with the 2,000 out of these the small tools? Yep. What line was that again? Which line was that? That was 39. 39. And that one's 4,000.

Um, everyone okay with the uh equipment maintenance 5,000 out? Yes. Equipment. Equipment maintenance was going down to what? Uh, that would be going down to 48,000. Okay. And the other one I had mentioned was fuel. And I I I think that needs a little discussion just

so in January, just so you guys know, we spent um 10,000 almost $10,800 worth of fuel. So, and this month will probably this month could come close and fuel creeping his head. It seems I use 350 a gallon. I [clears throat] didn't dare to shave it back too much.

So, so if we project that another 10,000 this month, that's uh 27th of the budget. Of course, the winter the summer months you're going to be a lot less. Uh do you have a summer month there? I'd like go back to September or some some

I have to change um programs to be academ know I also want to make sure that we're leaving enough money in here so that we're getting stuff done because that's the other piece of having this department is towns people want to see

uh going out on the roads June to October uh we were 3,400 month average 3,400 a month and 10,000. So we're talking average of 6,000 roughly. There's more summer months than winter months. So that 30 some 3,400 was at a higher cost at that point. That was over $4 or close. Uh, we weren't paying that price, but it was up. I think the highest we paid was maybe 360 I don't know the top of my head, but 360 in that area.

So 60 Well, I'm I'm just doing four winter months. That's 40,000 and then eight summer months. That's uh it's probably 26 2700. I mean 26 27,000. So you're talking 67,000 similar. So maybe maybe we don't have the room to move on that

probably. Yeah, it depends on how much it goes up cuz it seems to be creeping already. So there may not be a lot of room there. Yeah. Any other thoughts in here? [clears throat] leave the fuel for now second. So Scott, do you Yeah.

Yeah. So if that number is now down to 284 576 if that number Can you see any place here we can cut with all Well, it's I mean now you got I mean here's what I us telling you what we like to have. You see I mean you understand we're up against, right?

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Um most of the stuff I figured fairly close um without a lot of wiggle room. [clears throat] Um your technology absolutely need two grand in that one or I know you did you had 1,000 to start with but you used 940

that freight liner software software software for the equipment for the for the freight which that will pay off we understand that a little bit the other night. Yeah, we we went to one radio instead of two. Y the commissioner salary can probably be cut. I was basing it knowing that well thinking that things are going to change obviously um and we would be now the ones employing a road commissioner and sharing with town hall um I have the road commissioner making um I think 70

$75,000 now [laughter] I have no idea what a road commissioner makes so this is like pure guess of mine but when I went back and I looked at the MMA information. It looks like a road or actually a public works director would make probably about 55 57,000 a year. Does that sound

Yeah, there's other factors that go in into where we live and live. We're sharing. We're sharing. So, it's a it's double the roads road responsibility. Why double the population? I didn't know the road. Double double the road, double the crew, basically. But so you're talking a crew of four here and a crew of three in

13 in the one time. So I mean so what would you expect to pay? That's a mean, you know, we may be able to to at least make a little bit of room there. numbers, there actually doesn't seem to be any uh correlation between sides of the town. I see that [laughter]

and the car and even geographic location either. Yeah. And some of that was is based on, you know, some of of where we were with it was based on the fact that you've been in the position for a long time and and experience and and all of that where somebody else is going to be,

right? Though I would expect if if we're trying to hire somebody running two departments that you want somebody with some experience. So you you don't want to bring in somebody completely new. I don't think you definitely want somebody familiar with [clears throat]

everything. line again, are you comfortable with what's in here? Do you think we could do anything? Uh, so right now she's put the 200 She's put 250,000 basically, which is kind of uh the average of option four and six, right? Right. And I there's an extra three 2,500 or something in there.

Bulky waste pickup. Bulky waste. Okay. Because we took that out of parks and recctors in about a 3% raise for their park, right? that I'd factor in an a roughly only for the full-timers not for so that is basically status quo really

that's ultimately it's the average of yeah it's so it's planning on four and a half months of winter of of heavy winter um because those 30,000 months are were definitely very heavy are definitely he heavy months um either through ice or snow Right.

We could just go with the four month with the raise the 239 113 and hope we have a light winter next year. But I I would rather that we return money at the end that we haven't spent than we end up without enough money to pay the plow [laughter] guys.

Well, what really what happens and again this is the benefit of us, you know, [snorts] going with the department is we have some control over that. So if we do end up coming out of the winter where we overexpended on our payroll line, we'll make adjustments somewhere else. Um whether it be whatever gravel or whatever line, you know, to make up that difference in the summertime. So we've got some control over that. I wouldn't want to go and just use compensation and cut that just to make the numbers work, right?

And hope, you know, that that things turn out right. So [clears throat] question uh two that 45,000 number for the road commissioner that was everything all lumped together right so when we when we look at this we're going to we're if we become the employer we're going to be splitting it out by FICA Medicare

right and it it's it's split out now down below I mean down on this because do do we actually so the FICA so we Actually, this the actual salary 70 thou 75,000. I didn't think so. I I didn't think I think that [laughter]

I think that is a lump sum of all the right. I don't think it's I don't think we split it out. Chart is salary and then the benefits the 45 and then all the benefits on top of it. I think the 45 we pay is our portion of the whole package.

So, if I change that number, it'll change everything else. Well, it would Yes, it uh if you change that number there, you'd have to add it to FICA Medicare. But at this today, I don't think it really because we're based on the bottom line and so on. If if we end up over on FICA, Medicare and stuff like that, um next year we'll fix that. But uh but the and the salary would be

but but what I'm saying is is it's set up so that if I change the salary in the top line, it will automatically change the FICA and everything, right? So right now those lines. So if I take that lines are high because are these lines currently

include everything 14 15 and 16. It includes everything with a $45,000 salary at a 40% split. So we're paying Well, we're paying 60%. So I believe you're 65. Yeah. So if can you do a calculation on 65 6040 split because that that would that'll help that line. That'll drop that by a fair amount.

Yeah. Though we also have to add We need to make sure we added in uh health insurance on that cuz that's not in there. Is it? Oh, it is. Yeah. Health insurance is there. Okay. Yeah. And that's just a static number too. We'll have to increase that to make it to for a uh family plan just in case. So that makes our portion of the salary 39,000.

So 39. So that gives us uh 6,000 back on that line. Yeah. And that actually drops main pers Medicare um and workers comp. Also you want the numbers on those. It's not a huge difference. Yeah. Go ahead. Uh main pers is $15.99. Medicare is 566.

Hold it. I get my lines. [laughter] Gotcha. Number 19. Main PERS was what now? Main PERS is $15.99. Yeah. Medicare's 566 and then the health insurance stays the same but the workers comp would change to 3738. That's what it is. Same as it is.

Okay. Um so that health insurance is that based on eight months of family? That's based on 60% of full insurance for the year. Okay. Starting from January. What does that do to line number seven? Yeah. So, what does line number seven goes to 39?

39. So, that lowers the subtotal down there to there's your 1.25 right there. I mean, here. Let me print new guys. Here we go again. [laughter] So that I mean that gives us another six. So we're down to 27 278 roughly. Uh 1.278.

So we're slowly um I'd say we could change the health insurance because it's you're gonna have four months without paying that without paying that. But um the only problem is when we come back next year, they're going to go, "Why the big increase?" [laughter]

So um it's not a huge number. Well, uh 23 it would be $3,000. Ways to go. I mean whether we leave it in or not. Yeah. Every year that is the number one biggest sticking point with the budget committee is the fact that we provide health insurance to the employee and we pay a portion of the family.

Right. And every year they argue about it 80 8020 on both. Right. And and in reality the amount of money that it would save us to do it differently is not huge. And unless we completely cut the family. Yeah. That's how we I mean, that's how most municipalities do it.

It would be roughly $8,000 an employee that uses family that we we'd be able to cut. Yeah. What's Lisbon doing? They uh it's about that. Same. We have opt out, too. Yeah. Yeah. We have an opt out. Yeah. It's not very much. I forget. $100 a month or something.

I have no idea. It's It's not a huge amount, but you do get a little something for opting out. um anywhere. So, we've got approximately 26,000 difference right now. Uh or that's roughly 2% more than 2013. What about line 29?

What's 29? Oh, that's true. If we hire don't have to we don't have to pay for the truck any you can he can use Durham's truck, right? Yeah. On the side. Yeah. That's the way we do. Yeah. That's where we're going to be the main employer.

So we have a truck that's available to we I mean we have two three quarter, right? We got one. We've got one and and then a one. So the road the foreman could go around and one of them could go around one time. woman is going to be in one of the one tons.

Yeah. Okay. Set up with a tool bar tool racks and everything. Yeah. So, so and you could use a 3/4 and you could use panels when you're in panel or whatever. I mean, right. So, we could just do the same situation where panel lits pays us,

right? If they wanted because they've got a they do have the pickup, too. Yeah, but I mean switching trucks to what happens with the job is you is is Yeah. You you don't run it as two separate towns. You're in here. You run as just one hole

or or or you can parked on the town line. [laughter] Don't you don't switch during the day. You you you kind of one day you're in that one. Yeah. Yeah. Cuz you you don't want to be in our truck and then be on the wrong side of pond when you got to come back here or vice versa. example back to the garage.

Two days here, two days you're here in Powell's They're in Powell's truck. Three days they're in Durham's truck. So, we could get rid of that one. I I think I mean I I there's some workable solution. Yeah. I mean, it's going to have to be a discussion between the both board both boards and how they're going to deal with that end of it, right?

You know, but yeah, I mean for the time, you know, we have the truck now. We don't we shouldn't need to rent it. Exactly. Right. So, there's another 4500. So 78. So down to 74. 274. 1 274. So you can do I'm I'm just doing rough numbers off the top of my head. My bottom line

the other night you had mentioned too that we were missing. My bottom line's gone to 1273185 So yeah, within you're you're within uh you're within a couple thousand a few thousand of mine because I said 1274 something. So 1273 something. So yeah, we're close.

And when you were looking at your numbers, did that include Oh, it did. The projects. Yes. I was hoping to garner. Oh, I I got that. 100,000. [laughter] No wiggle room. No, a couple hundred thousand wiggle room, we'd already be great.

I know that didn't include the project line all set. No, I already got that in there. What What were you asking, Sean? Uh yeah, Josh, the other night when we were trying to crunch the total numbers of where we were previously when my cop was plowing and we were doing

You you had mentioned there was money that we weren't accounting for. Has that been accounted for now? line and that's in that that's all accounted for. Yeah. Okay. That's all the projects that we subbed out to somebody.

It was a separate line that we had was capital projects or projects they called. It wasn't really capital. It was minor. Yeah. All right. So, we're at 21,000 at this point, which is right now is probably from all the extra from the flower.

That's that definitely has eaten up a lot. And I've thought about the same thing in Microsoft if you could cut that somewhere. But one of my concerns about I don't want to see happen is I don't want to cut back on the part of uh labor where the PMS aren't done,

including in some cases washing to get stuff off the trucks that don't rust because PMS in my opinion are huge. I work for a company and they're huge on PMS and I can almost never step onto a piece of equipment and find a problem because they're wellmaintained. And to be honest, probably when we trade them in, the people that buy them are thinking they're buying a Cadillac because they're wellmaintained. And I, you know, PM maintenance I I'm that and training I'm really far because I think it's it makes a huge difference in your department no matter what they are. So I thought about that. Is there a place you [clears throat] could cut some of the labor? I don't know. I think there's other places because with the labor what it boils down to is even if we if we cut materials we cut everything we still got 40 miles of roads 46 miles of roads times two that need to be ditched you know so if we've got fuel and labor you

know it's going to be productive you know why was the tree cutting so far over because when we had the ice storm last year And I know we've historically contracted most of that out. Do we continue to contract that out or does the crew need more of?

I left that in there for stuff that we don't have the means to handle. And with an ITROM, I mean, I think we have to have the capacity to be able to contract it out just to keep up with it. No, we've got stuff around town that we don't have the ability within our crew to deal with. So, I left that line in there for that. Uh, we've got stuff up on ST. We got stuff everywhere that it's more than what we can handle our crew and our equipment. [clears throat]

right back? Yes, you did. All right, good. I think I didn't I was going off my sheet last week, so I didn't even know. Oh, did that change? It did change from last week because I had the wrong numbers. Okay. So, cuz I The salt went up, didn't it? [clears throat]

Same went down. I I thought I thought so cuz I I was thinking that that number looked higher than the last time I saw it. And like I said, I didn't realize it cuz I was going off my spreadsheet on my computer that had the changes in there. And then when I was sitting down over the weekend going through things and I noticed on the spreadsheet that I had received from change there, but [snorts] anyhow, we talked about it.

We did talk about it and yeah, it was my fault. 15,000 more than it was the last time. Yeah. What about the uh plow blades? I know you said you went to uh I cut that back. Yeah, I remember you said you did. I couldn't remember cuz we went to carbides, you said.

Well, we we purchased a bunch this year and we're getting the life that I would expect out of them. So, I cut that one back. Um I cut it $8,000 actually. Yeah. Okay. That's Yeah. From last year. Yeah. I mean, is there a little bit of wiggle room there?

A little wiggle room I could handle. It's just, [clears throat] you know, I don't want to make it so tight that, right? You know, you can't make it so tight that you got nothing matter what. you said difference at this point from what you

21,000. Yep. 1273185 is bottom line right now. That's you're comparing that one to 2013. So this is over that's over a twoyear. It's roughly a percent a year at this point. And if we had done what we originally one of the things that that I think we should also keep in mind is that we shortened the bond term on these. So the payments are if we had gone to the full bond term that we were permitted to under the warrant these payments would have been smaller. So the bond payments would have been smaller which would have given us a little bit more room

only the building. Right. Yeah. And instead we had the opportunity to to shorten the term save the town money in the long run on interest five years off it. Yes. So, so you know, I think there's some 20, you know, roughly 20% more, 25% more or something like that,

right? Yeah. So, that that would actually be your $20,000 right there. And I'm just curious as to I'd have to go back and look at my notes and I and I will now see that with this because I'm just curious what that half year of 2015 was if we had to because I'm quite sure that's that would make up way more than the difference. And I'm not looking for services. I just want to make sure

it would because we would have been paying probably close to 750,000, right? It's another 50, right? 737 7. So 737. So um you're talking 60% of the budget would be going to plow just just the plowing contract. And now I' I'd say it's probably closer to 45 50% instead of instead of 60. So we're getting to do more with the same money.

Right. That's what we was looking at. Yeah. And that's what we sold. Right. That was the discussion. It wasn't about savings. [clears throat] It was spending the same and getting a lot more done. And I think we've done that.

are we good with this at this point? Let's see what we can possibly find. We know the lines you could cut would be 50 or 51. And try that. He's going to cut us. So, well, he already has. [laughter] it's going to cost us more in the long run." That's all right. All right.

Yeah. Oh, you're not going to say it's not my problem. That's it. We're at a spot where we got to make the tough choices cuz I mean, the can's been kicked down the road long enough and it's been kicked been kicked right into our laps. So,

we're still not making the toughest choice yet, and that's the bond. Yeah. And at some point, we we're going to have to do it. We have to bite the bullet and do it. I mean, people want to see roads getting fixed or grind them all back up.

And there had been, you know, a lot of talk when this was passed that we would be able to slide a bond payment in for road renewal and still be under the cap, but it that's just not realistic. No. And and I I I believe I always said that you're going to have to do it no matter which way you go.

That you're going to have to spend that money sometime. No matter which way you go, right? In either scenario, we would need a bond. All right. So, are we all set on this for now? I'm okay with it. Okay. Thank you, Sean.

I did have a uh person come up to me two days ago, told me to pass this information. And I'm not going to mention his name because I don't know if he watched it on TV, but he was one of the guys that wasn't really sure that the uh road crew was going to be able to make the roads look as good as they were in the past couple years, but he said, "Um, I want you to pass this on that. I'm very happy what they do. I think they've done a fine job."

And they've had a tough year to Yeah, they had tough year to start out learn. So, pass. He was one of those guys that he was a little doubtful. So, I hear just the opposite. So there mixed motions up there. All depends on who I hang out with. Mike

51%. That's right. did you you had something you wanted to be here? I'll be here tomorrow. Absolutely. [laughter] Do I get a choice? Do I get a choice? Uh Wednesday. Wednesday will be here. [clears throat] [laughter] to Ruth today. There's some stuff that came up at the planning board at the last planning board meeting. Um and I'm hoping I'm not stepping on anybody's toes here, but time is too short to do this any other way. Um the of course as you all know the chairman of the planning board had resigned and that planning board hasn't got around to issuing a new chair and I know that um Todd Buller was trying to work up some stuff in regards to the budget but it's circumstances put them kind of behind the eight-ball on what needed to get to you guys right away. But the discussion that came up at the last planning board meeting was trying to figure out how to approach um developing some coherency in

the ordinances for the town of Durham. They're they're an uncontrollable mess. It's almost impossible to adjudicate with them. Um the planning board in itself doesn't have enough time in the time that they spend working through the ordinance as well as trying to take care of applications. Um it was pretty universally understood that the money the town had spent in the last year or two in trying to get outside help in regards to organizing the um the ordinances taking care of the conundrums and the inconsistencies and various things to try to make it a more coherent and usable document. Was money poorly spent? They just you didn't get what you were buying. Um, so the the conversation wound up with with the idea that um we could try to find some outside help that maybe would not be anywhere near as expensive and try to take sort of a three- tiered approach to straightening out the ordinance. And the first thing is just

getting rid of all of the inconsistencies and redundancies in the ordinance and try to compress it a little bit and just make it more coherent and not really make any structural changes or anything along that line. And this is talking through for in preparation for next year's town meeting, not this year's town meeting, but the money needs to be in the planning board budget to try to hire some additional outside help to do that sort of organization. Um, I had talked to the planning board about working with uh the town planner from Bowdenham who I've been working with now for about eight years and basically did this for our ordinance. In the process of being able to do that, I think we could work sort of an inner town agreement with Bowdenham so that the actual hourly cost of hiring outside help to do this would be substantially less than any other way we might approach it. Um I'm not sure

where it's going to end up. I that's not my say so. But it did seem to me that it would be good if some of that was put into the planning board budget to allow for those guys to have the opportunity to at least get some of that started this year. Do we have any have we had any communication now that we have switched from ABCOG to GPCOG as to what

I know when when GPCOG came in and spoke with us ordinance review and and some of that was is part of the services they provide and and do we have any sense of how much assistance in that realm our membership buys us essentially?

I I don't know that I haven't pursued that. I know the general's consensus is is that approach in the past has wound up really getting us nowhere. Right. But where we are starting with a a my only thought was where we're starting with a totally different organization whether or not that was an avenue that was at least worth exploring.

Well, I think it's probably worth exploring. the the the conundrum comes into that if we don't have something in the budget to work with and that's not an avenue that seems advantageous to us, then we're another year out in trying to deal with some of this stuff. And I think some of it, at least the structural part of the ordinance is probably the the least expensive and the easiest approach because anybody that's been on either side of the table for the planning board through most of the last few years is pretty dissatisfied with what they're working with. Does the planning board have a figure in mind?

Uh, I don't know that they do or they don't, but I think we need to punch something in if you guys are if it's I I was of the understanding that this is sort of your last meeting and trying to negotiate where you guys feel comfortable in getting this off to the next level and something needed to be stuck in.

So, what are you thinking hours,000 range as far as dollars? And I'm not sure. I said in the five to 8,000 and I'm not sure as far as hours. Um, I have talked to Nicole Brienne and she was going to try to make it to the next planning board meeting to sit down with those guys and have a discussion. She's reviewing the ordinances now. I sent her copies of it. Um and then those guys could sit down and have a conversation to see where they thought they may want to go with it or how it might work out. Um I'm

I know we did add some extra at least my recollection is that we we added some extra money to the planning board budget since they didn't really submit anything to factor in the the fact that we have to we haven't looked at the comprehensive plan in many years. I mean that we tried to build some some extra into the planning board budget and I don't know it's four extra meetings but it doesn't include anything outside.

Okay. Yeah. So I [clears throat] I'm I'm just putting it on the table here. I think it's stuff that needs to come into play and I know time was short to try to get something working into this for those guys to work with with Joe gone and you know some of the stuff the transition between the chairman and the budget stuff that would have come through that seat has been a little bit disjointed because they they didn't vote for chair yet and Todd wasn't prepared to just take this on so quickly. It was kind of a quick transition. So, I I'm not intending to speak for anybody other than the fact that if if there's a figure that can get put in there, the planning board has something to work with at least um and and moving forward and then can make recommendations to you guys from their committee as to how they want to approach it and what they think is the best. The ideas that we tossed around at

the last meeting were the ones that seem to be the most cost effective because in working it through the through a system like the um an agreement with the town of Bodm, your costs are going to be about as minimal as you can get them. It's not like hiring an independent contractor who's got to have their own insurance and all the other stuff that comes with it. They're going to charge us 60 or 70 bucks an hour. The other thing the planning board did think of when it comes to things like uh ABCOG and GPCOG that you know if it's someone who's working for the dollar, they're they've got skin in the game and we're have to get a better a better quality product and a larger amount of of work done for the same amount of money. So that's what I just wanted to

because basically I think we'd spent about 4,500 with AFCOG and got basically nothing out of it. Yeah. And they all feel the same way. They looked at what they got out of it and after two or three years of work they've done barely got through the

definitions. that that was actually in some ways one of the things that kind of put besides the costwise because GP uh GP cogs considerably cheaper but we didn't get when we we contracted over and above and we didn't get anything out of it

and that's a fear with the planning board now is to get back into the same hole of throwing good money after bad and not really coming out of it with something effective. Yeah. All we got was contract extensions because they weren't done yet.

Yeah. Extend extend. I know working with Nicole after eight years on the planning board, she took an ordinance similar to yours and turned it into something that really works like smooth right now. It's our ordinance was that thick, it's now about that thick. It's 178 or 180 pages. um she's she's sharp, she's practical, she's easy to work with, and that that type of approach, I think, even if it wasn't her. But that type of approach allows the taxpayers to get the most for their buck when they're working for this and get something we can work with when we're done.

Being able to understand it would be a huge plus, especially when you don't turn the page and it contradicts what you just read. That's the problem. You have way too much of that knowledge. Most of that book is incomprehensible.

It is. I've said that before. It really does need to be fixed. I mean, just just a structural just a simple structural approach to getting rid of the conundrums, getting rid of the redundancies, getting rid of the inconsistencies of it saying it in one way on one page in a different way and the other and and reorganizing it would do a huge amount.

other than that, I really don't I I wish I had more for you, but I I don't know what to do in regards to making recommendations other than I think it's a good idea. It sure would make sense to me, especially somebody that's already been through it. And if it's similar to what ours is, it should make it easier on that person and us.

Who is that personal bone? Nicole Brienne, the town planner. Okay. She's a vote in hand. Yeah. if we do that, how much would we add in then? Would we do the Would we do five, six? I mean, I I can't see doing any more than five because we're we're already stretching the budget.

Yeah, I can see putting in someplace else to get some more bang for our buck. Absolutely. It's just and and we know I mean the reality is is that regardless of of what we do here at least the the the tenative numbers that are coming from the school are another 9 or 10% increase and we continue year after year we cut this to bare bones and do as minimal progress on the municipal side because we know we're going to get

I personally think that's why we're looking at the increase we are now for the past five years we've been doing one uh 2% in one typically about one or 2% increases. Last year we actually had a decrease in the budget 2% decrease and

and um but taxes we still went up because of the unexpended funds but um you you do that over a long period of time and at some point you get hit. Yeah. And um it's frustrating feeling like, you know, our hands are tied on the municipal end because we know that that this whole other piece that we have

no control over. Well, we would have we could have a little bit more control if if we could get a couple of bus loads of people, you know, somebody actually went out of their way complaints about it being in Freeport to have buses available to take people down free of charge and they showed up.

Yeah. So, so what do you think we could get for hours for the 5,000? Would it be somewhere around 100, 130, 140 hours, something like that? I would think somewhere in the 150. I'm I'm reticent to Yeah, I'm reticent to speak for people. I'd rather have them speak for themselves. Um I even if it, you know, whatever you got for it,

it would be it would be money well spent, you know, and if it's if it's a municipal exchange in regards to that part, you know that that the like most other municipal employees, we're overqualified and underpaid. You're going to get the best you got to go for. So,

so if we put it, we actually still have the line there. It hasn't dropped off yet under ordinance review. We we could put 5,000 in. If it's a contract, we don't have to worry about FICA, Medicare, or anything like that. It's Yeah.

Yeah. I admire your work, so appreciate it. Thank you. Um, see, I saw Thank you for bringing tonight. He ran back to do a phone call. Um, I guess for a couple minutes while we're waiting for him, I was should we address uh Paul as far as the Anderson County issue?

Sure. Yeah. So, um, I'm sure he'd rather sit here for hours and listen to us go over our budget. [laughter] So, uh, some background and and so on. Um within in the last 2 to 3 years, Androskogan County passed a charter and with that charter it changed the number of commissioners from 3 to 7 and it changed the budget committee from like 9 to 14 or something like that. Um

this year was the first year with the full budget committee and the full number of um county the commissioners coming in. Would that also include a full-time administrator? Yes, a full-time administrator will be hired sometime during this year. Um within the charter there was some language that seemed to give the budget

committee the authority to set the uh compensation for the commissioners. And this year the budget committee actually chose to to drastically cut the compensation uh both uh money and benefits wise. They they said they cut they said we don't want any health benefits and we cut their pay back to like 3,000. Um, and during the time the commissioners all agreed that that was what the charter said. After we made the decision, they went to their lawyer and their lawyer gave them a different opinion and they overrode the decision. And so now they've they've done a budget

that with the with different numbers uh than what we had come up with. And um there's I don't know all the details. There seems to be some state laws that may be involved um about the uh authority of a budget committee and versus uh versus the commissioners and and things like that and so on. But it's caused a lot of tension between the budget committee and the commissioners and the towns. 12 out of the 14 towns have written letters expressing um anywhere from mild to severe displeasure of their decisions. And um at this point, I don't believe they're going to change their decision. I think we we've got a four-page letter back from them, which we're going to get at tomorrow's night's meeting. Um, and I know

was the rationale for the reduction and the reduction of benefits, the fact that their workload was diminished given that they were that their workload would be diminished at some point the at the first part of the year it wouldn't be because they're going to have to look to hire and so on. But yes, that was that was some of the rationale. Um, we're more concerned not not necessar I'm the first to admit that we may have cut too deep, but it was the

fact that they don't seem to be following the charter. We did write a letter to the attorney general which who replied and basically said this isn't my jurisdiction and I believe some other towns such as Lewon and there may be some other towns have contacted their legislators to see what can be done as far as that goes too. But it's it's a little bit of a jumbled mess.

Okay. And I did see that in the press. I did see what was taking place. I guess I didn't realize that's what you were referring to. See, it's been in the paper quite a bit. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I could certainly do. revenue sharing at risk here.

Yes, we know. Question on the tax committee. I figured Well, I should have brought a target. No, [laughter] it's it's actually it's a minor one. It's just explanatory rather than um with the discussion about the the potential property taxation of nonprofits and I know that that includes certain nonprofits of of particular sizes and it excludes religious entities and what have you. What about land trusts?

That's a question that's being looked at right now depending on whether the trust is in an ownership or actually in a trust. And I I understand that some trusts actually are mixed somehow. So, right, I just I was thinking about that there are plenty of land trusts that hold significant portions of yeah

of real property, but they have no sources of income or anything else to pay. They're just conserving land. That is a question that's in and that's a question that's on all of our mind right now. How that's supposed to be looked at because there is a $500,000 value on nonprofits. anything above $500,000 would be considered less certainly less of an issue here but some of the land trusts that hold waterfront property and

so along the same line um I think uh Durham is um at has about 130 140,000 somewhere in that range at stake in here and um if they if they do decide to cut revenue sharing completely completely. What What would offset that? Because we we have no

right uh nonprofits that make over 500,000 in town. All the non most of the nonprofits in town are religious, right? And they don't even come any closer near that either. But so what would be would there be anything that would offset? Well, the proposal that the governor has put out is the intent and they've done analysis on different married couples with two children, single parents with a child or two, retired couples. Looking at the scenarios from the tax, the the shift going from a an income tax base to a consumerbased tax is to lower the income tax for recipients. Basically, when they've done these estimates from the uh policy tax policy group, generally people come out a couple hundred to $1,000 ahead on their taxes. But you're looking at a taxed income going from $5,000 a year to $3,300 property tax going up probably about $200 per family based on the loss of revenue sharing. Could be more, could be less depending

on the size of the family. The one of the questions that that has come up or that I've heard raised is the notion that those are not necessarily happening in the same time frame. Revenue sharing is is going out much faster than income tax is going out.

The two-year budget does not completely phase out income tax. Yeah, they're t correct. So, the numbers that they're talking about right now are bringing income tax from 8 point whatever percent down to 6.5 and 5.75% depending on what your income threshold is. Um they're they're saying that the the income tax credit for uh where your if your property tax is 6% of your gross adjusted income, anything above that is taxdeductible. If if you're in that scenario, homestead exemption goes away for people under the age of 65, the $10,000 exemption. It goes to 20,000 for if there's anyone in the home that's over 65. So there's an increased homestead exemption on that side. So when they put all these numbers in play, it generally nets positive to the to the taxpayer, to the citizen for for for money that they're supposed to be over. We still have concerns though that we're asking the economists that are building these

models to explain to us because I've heard from a lot of retirees that have said, "I don't have taxable income. So therefore, if revenue sharing goes away and I go up 200 or $300 for the loss loss of revenue sharing and I don't have the homestead exemption, they should be able to file for it." But that there's some question there about whether people are really either know how to go after it or have been using the advantage of the homestead credits. There there's a chance that a lot of retirees are going to go over or going to go up. So we need more definitions on how we're going to offset.

What about the property tax fairness as well? I'd heard that was going to be tripled. I haven't heard that. No. I heard Jonathan Labonte talking about it the other day and he used our town as an example and uh he said basically Yeah. I mean, collectively, the town would be saving 1.4 million in income tax for giving up our 134 income. I mean, I have the numbers of, for example, for Durham, it is close to 140,000 on revenue sharing. And there's a $1.2 million tax savings that the residents will make, but it doesn't equate 1 to1. There's a 10 to1 saving. Well, and that's what he and he went on to say, too, that they were looking at tripling the property tax fairness credit.

I'm not aware of that. I'm I'm not aware of that. And uh I I question uh t I I question it if you're you're saying 90% difference and so on. The money's got to come from somewhere because we are not reducing services anywhere. The money's the money's got to come from somewhere. But the question we would absolutely have to raise taxes at projections where we are a state that demographically is is aging. One of the fastest one of the oldest states.

It is the oldest in the country. And if we're looking at the homestead exam exemption doubling for people over 65, looking out in the long term and zero income tax and zero income tax, I have concerns about the the longer term implications of that. If we have an aging population that's not paying income taxes anyway, the cost of doubling the home exam, I just I'm not sure how all those numbers equate looking out beyond the immediate near-term. This is and this is a unique package. It's never been brought forth like this in 50 years of state history they're talking about. So, and that's what a lot of us are trying to get our hands around right now because there on paper it it definitely looks good on paper when you take all of that into account. It it it apparently is moving more money into our hands as citizens. And you know by in this this first year of tax cuts it would take a congressional it would take an amendment

to our constitution to actually go to zero income tax in Maine. So that that would even be another piece that has to be completed. A lot of municipalities like ours Durham Powell we don't have you know cities like Portland and Auburn and Lewon have enough nonprofits. They're they're going to be in good shape with something like this. Whereas a town like ours, these are the towns that when I ask the questions and we've met with the governor twice and talked about this. This I don't want to say the subject goes silent, but it's we'll get back to you. I mean, we we have an issue here with towns like ours as a bedroom community.

Yeah. It basically isn't Isn't most of Maine made up like towns uh to that don't have that that base and small towns? There's 493 communities in the state of Maine. What some of the differences we have though are we're not parallel like when you're looking at our RSU unit, you've got Freeport than Powell and Durham. So in in other municipalities, there's a little bit more evenness between the three towns when it comes to spending on schools, for example. We don't have that. We don't have that same parody. So we we have kind of a double whammy going on here. We've got, you know, high we've got high income taxes all high taxes, property taxes because of the situation we're in. So, but there are 493 communities in Maine. And, you know, I can't imagine that there are maybe more than 70 or so that have a lot of nonprofits where they're sitting on easy street.

And and what about the potential impact on property taxes of the proposal of flat funding K- through2 education, which is part of the the budget? There's some discussion about that that that there would be no increases in education. It would be flat funded.

I haven't seen that or I haven't gotten into that yet. So, because that's another piece that it's one thing to factor in income tax versus property tax, but if if money to education dries up as well, then that's another impact on property taxes that that people have, you know, control over.

And these are all in this budget, what it looks like today is probably nothing like what it's going to look like in four months, obviously. And there's there's a lot of folks, a lot of us, you know, I've read it four times. I've read it four times. I can quote a lot of the numbers, but I still can't tell you what they mean.

I I actually can't can't see a hu that a split legislature will vote for major changes, super major changes like that. That's the thing, though, because a lot of the it's so totally radical. A lot of it is stuff that was originally proposed

by the Democrats. Some of it is stuff that was originally proposed. I mean, it's one of those budgets that I don't think either side of the aisle is is dancing. [laughter] It's true. Everybody's a little bit confused because you're absolutely right. There are there are pieces that were brought forth and at 1295 a few years ago and it's not completely the same because now we're talking about decreasing income taxes. And so there's a lot there's a lot to look at in this. I saw sales tax is supposed to go up to 6.5%.

It's not going to sunset, right? So there won't wouldn't be a sunset to back to five%. It would stay at 6.5%. It's 5.5 right now. It would go to 6.5, but there would [clears throat] be no sunset. It would eliminate the sunset that was going to happen in June.

Um lodging taxes would remain at 8%. They're also the the fuel tax hasn't been attached for the last few years. So it would probably include the fuel tax being uh re looked at again. And it also talks about increasing the the base for the sales tax, including professional services. Correct. Yep. Accountants, lawyers,

which then becomes a I would imagine to a certain degree a a difficult number to quantify and and collect and and we had taxation meeting today. We actually had Dr. Mike Allen who is kind of the architect of this plan. We had him in the room today this afternoon and he was he was actually going through how they modeled these things and and and you're absolutely right. They have some they'll use models from other states where they've tried these things. They're taking pieces from different areas and looking to see what the impact would be, but but there is still a matter of we're not sure exactly how it's going to turn out and we're hearing from a lot of folks. I mean, I'm hearing from a lot of folks that are accountants and lawyers and you know that you know this is yeah this is we're it's going to keep us busy. There's no question about it. So, and a lot of folks know, you know, the problem is is that I I where

the government the governor is coming from the point that, you know, his years as the mayor of Waterville, you know, his point was I can find 10% of low hanging fruit anywhere. But so, when you get in and you listen to these discussions about whether you're going to buy tools at 2,000 a year, you know, to you're trying to save pennies. The reality is is that there are municipalities like ours that are doing everything they can to try to keep their budgets down. And so I need more information to understand how this I would love to see $1.2 million in Durham residents hands for income tax. And if and if that still puts us to the net positive because the the reality is is that that means yes property tax does get raised because of the loss of that revenue share. Yeah.

So, if if I could actually see, you know, if it actually went to zero, uh prop uh income tax went to zero, I could see that this might work. Um but there again is as it it's going to it's definitely going to hit the older people harder because they don't have income tax.

That's my fear. People whose income is so low that they're they're below the brackets. It's it's going to impact the elderly and the poor. I mean, that's one of the things that's been said is the the property tax and sales tax are the least what they least progressive taxes are the ones that hit the the the lowest earners the worst because um in income taxes typically bracketed and usually below a certain amount you don't pay anything.

Sales taxes no you don't have a card to say hey I'm I can't I can't pay sales tax or something like that. So as a percentage of income spent, lower income people spend a larger percentage of their income on sales tax than than higher income people.

And the part of the philosophy is that there are folks that don't pay any income tax that do let's say things that are under the radar, so to speak, a black market type economy. And the consumer tax side actually captures all of those folks as well.

Is there a luxury tax attached to the budget at all? [cough] Not that I recall. There was some discussion I think at the state of the state about yachts or something that there would be more tax paid on on people's yachts. But the comment that or it was may have been in an article that that it went to sales tax and expanding the the sales base. And the response from the fishing community was we yes, we have expensive boats, but we need them to make a living. and and if you're adding another six and a half percent onto the cost of of their fishing boats, then it becomes incredibly difficult yet again to to make a living.

I'm not aware of that, but I'm certainly again, we're all digging into this. You know, there's a lot of line items in there. There's a lot of line items and the trust question is a big one. Um, a lot of municipalities are looking to get I don't know how much tree growth we have here in the town of Durham, but there are municipalities that are saying, "Well, wait a minute then. Let's get these this property out of tree growth so we can get some property tax back." So, there's a lot of there's a lot of that type of juxipositioning going on right now. And I certainly I don't have any answers and I don't think anybody really does just yet, you know. So, this is, you know, we're going to be knocking these things off one piece at a time. But um

I suspect when it finally comes to vote, it will be a it's going to be different animal. Oh yeah, it's going to be the hearings are two weeks, one week. I I got an email that they were coming up shortly. There's some next week that that pertain to some of the issues that

Yeah, we're going to and it's in the governor is going to go on a road show and and go to different mun they're going to go to West Performing Arts sometime if if not this week, next week. But we've kind of encouraged the administration to get out there and say, "Well, if you're going to talk to people about this, then we need to get up."

They're more than welcome to come here to talk to us. I mean, we're we're a small town, but I mean, we make small towns make up a that's been that's been that's been suggested. [laughter] So, because, you know, obviously it's we're in a different scenario than a lot of the the major municipalities. So, um, again, it it it does look good on paper, but there's a lot of little moving parts in there.

And and we I've seen this type of thing happen before where they cut what they're giving, but then when it comes to actually cutting the taxes somewhere, oh, oh, oh, we can't do that. And so so you you you get the reduction in in the money coming into the town, but then the the the residents don't see anything coming back to them.

And we have to, you know, we have to watch out for the unfunded mandates and things like that that still slide in the back door. So um but I certainly I just wanted to make sure that I introduced myself and got to talk to you folks and

feel free to come any at any of our meetings and we'll Thank you. We know you got a lot of spare time. Yes. Yes. [laughter] Exactly. Um I I certainly appreciate it and and obviously please keep in touch with me if there's anything that I can do or uh you know any concerns from the town perspective. I certainly want to hear. So I'll just

Yeah. Do you do you work with Dale much the senator? Our senator Dale Crafts. Oh you mean Garrett Garrett? I'm sorry all the time. So um if you I do work with Dale too. Dale is Lisbon though. That's all right. Yeah. Uh [snorts] we would be more than happy to see Garrett if he has the opportunity.

Okay. We'll try to set up a a point that we could, you know, come and visit. And have you proposed any bills for this? I did, but I, you know, I'm a freshman. I'm a rookie. I, you know, I honestly didn't. There are some people that throw bills just for the sake of saying I put a bill in. I I did not. I put in two bills. Um, one is for hunting on Sundays. I know it's a perennial favorite that always gets shot down, but I that to me is a lowhanging fruit in the state of Maine. You know, you have to hunt on somebody's property with permission as it is now. And I know a lot of land owners are against Sunday hunting. If that's the case, then have that conversation with the people that hunt there. But my I I I recommended it for uh wildlife management districts districts that have less than a population of 50,000 people. So that would be nowhere around here. It wouldn't be southern Maine. It would be

mostly northern Maine, western foothills as a study with a two-year look back. So, do it for two years until 2017. Measure to see if there's an increase in licenses sold. See if there's an increase in hotel lodgings because the what I want to see is that on Veterans Day weekends and things like that that where Veterans Day is on Monday or Tuesday, I would expect to see people staying longer through the weekends. I also know people, friends of mine, I hunt as well and I see them go to Pennsylvania. Boy, that that bothers me to see our own people in state go to other states to hunt because they can get a full weekend. So,

why would you go there? Their deer are tiny. Yeah. Tiny. [laughter] But plenty. That's the thing. They're plentiful. Usually now they just run a couple over. All you have to do is go outside and you see a deer. [laughter]

So, it's [snorts] it's interesting. So, I I but you know, this year, I mean, we'll see what happens with this two-year term I'm in. Um I I hope that from a voting perspective, I can do what's right for our citizens. I did not get into this because I was looking for something else to do. I was I already work a 55 60 hour week for work and uh but I'm just like every other resident seeing our taxes go out of control. We know that local government is trying the best that they can to keep things under control. So there has to be another piece to this puzzle that we have to look at. And so those are the things that I'm in for. And and that's you know so that's what I'm going to do. I'm hoping to get in there and that's why I want to hear everybody's opinion and good, bad or indifferent, I've got thick skin, you know. I don't I just want to do what what do I what I can for our town. So that's why I'm doing this

because I I want to live in Maine and I want to retire in Maine. I don't want to see the drain. So thank you. Thank you for your hard work. Thank you for your time. Appreciate it. Thank you folks. Step up real quick. Go ahead.

I got snowb blowing to do. [laughter] Snowflower. Oh, I got to say the flower. I feel like the guys have done an all right job. I certainly don't feel like our roads have been where they where they were when my cop was doing them. But, you know, in fairness, when my cop was doing them, we had the best roads anywhere. you know, and and and to defend our guys, I could say I I have not I I commute to Augusta, and I I don't typically go through towns that are better, but I still am thinking.

not what they were when Mike Yeah, Sean, don't take criticism too good. Well, there's always room for improvement. You don't understand. Sure. Sure. Criticism. I always told when my boss just used up to me, Mike, this is this and this has happened. I said, "All right, creative criticism, Mike."

You know, I was I I I wasn't a big fan of the Brian idea up front up front, you know, and I I've been vocal about that all along. And I've known people complained about the Brian, but uh I told Sean, I said, "I won't praise you for doing your job. I'll praise you for doing a good job."

Right. I think he's just doing his job right now. You know, this year I've had I've had a lot of slipping and sliding on the roads, and I I realize we've been pounded. It's it's you know I I don't know that we had any big storms like this over the past few years, but uh

we Yeah. And uh they got some nice equipment. They got some nice equipment. That's a you know I I certainly can't I think they've done pretty well. They're as good in my opinion. At least they they seem to be as good in my opinion. I mean I'm not trying to blow wind up anybody's script because I don't need to.

Sure. But I don't I mean I've heard a couple of minor complaints, but one of the things I've learned about complaints is I got to remember where they come from. Well, that's it. Who they come from and why. Sometimes it's personal reasons.

For me, like I say, I'm not complaining. I'm just saying that I I do see the difference, you know. there. Several copies of fire. Yeah, you passed down. Too quick to That's an updated one from the last time we talked about fire.

Okay. Is this something new again, Chief? I got you one. Oh, I didn't That's why I could find another couple trees or so. Yeah, you know, I know I need to be I haven't been very good about weeding out the old ones and I need

Actually, I I leave on them. I leave them in because uh when we go to the budget committee, it's nice to be able to go flip them or something. saving mine. Yeah. Can you highlight the change? Is this just the changes we made or were there more changes?

No, this is the changes that you made. There's only two. Yeah. So, if we factor out the moving the workers comp, workers comp got moved over and that's that's like 11 115. Mhm. So, we're still at about a $20,000 increase from last year.

labor line. just the 12,000 just in labor because um well la last year was a big year for labor and this year's starting off just as big you said when we were in before that was 50 today was 50 which is last year 50 calls in 40 days something like that

yeah um the weather you said was due due to the extra like the required testing and stuff on the Clint. Yeah, it does a the change in the Yeah. equipment maintenance is primarily focused on adding a lab truck. Go through the breakdown on it if you'd like.

That's all right. I think they all have your copy too. should have enough and we've been through it once. It's just we I mean we went we went through quickly and we didn't uh we we did the two lines. It's It is a hefty increase, but I

the the two 18,000 of it is is the uh the labor um or I should say uh 15 15,000 is the labor for the for the firefighters and the workers comp and uh the Medicare, FICA, all that all those increases. is there's another two 2700 plus a little bit for the chief salary increase.

It's actually 2,800 for the 2711 plus some yeah the 15170 plus 13142 for the lower the support benefits those are increases. one. Mhm. Yeah. So, so there's about 15 about 15,000 for just firefighter labor stuff. that could

the and I'm sure that we discussed this and I apologize for not remembering. I've just looked at a lot of numbers. [clears throat] Does the labor line setting aside the chief salary does just the the labor line I know it includes increasing hours about five hours a week per part-time person

four hours a week per part-time person and then does it also include a raise for the labor? It doesn't necessarily what it does is if you look at the cover sheet I think I passed out last time around is it brings the um base rates up

to um [clears throat] what they had asked to bring them up to No, I meant for the part-time people the the part-time people. It doesn't necessarily incorporate uh a guaranteed 3% increase or anything like that. Okay. They're paid according to the same.

They increased it so that their the ceiling because I have a bunch of people that are bunched up at the ceiling. I increased it so the ceiling was actually higher both for the part-time workers and for the um volunteer people. I said a bunch there's a few people that are bunched up there. Once they get so high they can't go any higher. I increased it on the high end on both of them. It but the base end of it is the same as it was before. You only added one hour per week to each, right? You added or

one hour they cover on Tuesday, Thursday, Friday. Okay. Have the part time is there. One hour. There's six hour days and I increase the days to Okay. So, three hours each. Okay. Four hours each person. Monday. Four hours for a total.

Diana works three of the days. Oh, okay. So, they don't all work. They don't each work [clears throat] would increase three hours. Yeah. Okay. Andrew work days includes one hour. Okay. So it's seven hour days instead of six hours.

So there's coverage in the station four days a week. Yeah. Monday. Monday I'm solo. Yep. I actually looked at trying to bring somebody in on Monday because it makes it difficult to do anything administrative on Monday when I'm there. like today between going on calls and doing the shoveling and stuff it uh that was half twothirds of my day. Uh so I don't do a lot of administrative stuff on Monday but it would have required it to either it would have been a really short day which nobody's going to want a really short day as it is. It makes it a struggle with just six hours to put it out to people because uh

hourly rates we're getting so that they're close to being what the industry standard would be but it uh it's only for six hours whereas most people are putting out 8 10 or 12 hours for time. So I decided it'd be better to stick it out solo and try to get the four days we do cover up them. So it was realistic number of hours making it worthwhile for people. [clears throat]

We leave it as is. other than this chief salary because we haven't we haven't looked at that yet raises in any department across the board. Equipment maintenance. We had that up a little bit more than normal cuz we were expecting more

equipment maintenance line. The equipment maintenance. Yeah. Equipment maintenance with the addition of the ladder truck. Some have been marketing right along it. And they they basically tell you your maintenance is going to increase by like $300 to $5,000 for when you add a ladder truck on there. Testing of ladders. I think it was either 6 or 700 off the top of my head. It goes up to like 16 or 1700.

We just had a lot of work done on that on that piece of equipment. Correct. So she's ready to drop. You're still going to have your regular pump maintenance. You're going to now have ladder maintenance, ladder testing that you're going to have to do. So

is all that is that annual or the ladder testing and the pump. Do you do that once a year? They have to have all the ladders in the department tested annually. I don't know if it was twice a year, once a year. What the no matter how many times even if they don't come off the truck actually department we have to they actually got to ask to me about step ladders and I learned a lot about step ladders. Step ladders UL does not test step ladders. No testing agency does. They do initially, but not after the fact. So, they got after me about it, but we have to do an in-house.

I got monthly inspections on all my letters that work. Well, I didn't know if it was once a year, month, once a month, twice a year. I just didn't know what Yeah. I don't think actually industry has to do inspections. You don't have to do them at beans either. No, we we generally inspect the equipment each time we need to use it to make sure and if there's an issue

in house inspection there's an issue you take it out of service outside certification. Yeah. Not have to have an outside testing agency come in and do a certification on it. It's actually unreal to watch the tests they do.

Yeah. But you're up on that ladder fighting a fire. You're very happy that it's been tested, I would imagine. Well, there are a few guys that are into thrillseeking, but for the most part, most of the guys down there, we uh if it ain't safe, they're not going to use it. I mean, they don't really want to. They do want to go home just as good a shape as when they came in. So,

they don't they don't fall off. It's not a bad thing, but I have some that are stickless to that, and that's not a bad thing. No, can rub me once in a while, but I have some of them that are stickless. No, we'll go. We talked about the the the needing to to upgrade some of the personal safety equipment. We've

what the personal safety line is is an increase, but we talked at the last meeting about the fact that some of that stuff just has some of the personal safety line too. It I think that's the one that's in. keep Before I say something that's incorrect, let me just double check and make sure.

and stuff. The one change that beyond just normal increases is the uniforms are listed there. That's something we talked when we met a long time. Exactly. The uniforms are listed in the personal safety. The two big things that are kind of a change for the way we two bigger things is the uniforms and the printing and distribution of the handbook. Um the 4 hours

addition of time is probably the next step in in changes in the way we do business or service. That would probably be the next thing or the third thing that I could say. it out there before. Nobody likes the idea and I'm not sure I'm crazy about it, but one of the things we do that's actually a a phone and everybody's side is that has to do it is the coverage at two hours on Saturday and Sunday on the weekends for permits and stuff that

you know they tend to try to do some other stuff sometimes if they can while they're there covering but it uh you know we bring somebody in from 9 to 11 on Saturday, 9 to 11 on Saturday or Sunday but I don't think it's worthwhile. Um, sometimes we've gone to [snorts] electronic systems that you have to pay you pay for and they set it up and it but you have to submit electronically. You lose a $7 fee. I don't believe there's any fee for doing it, but people have to be able to do it electronically. And it's always been a case whenever we've discussed it that we didn't want to make it all electronic.

Right. You can now you can go online. Yeah, I've gotten burn permits right online. Okay, I've gotten burn permits right online. They paid seven bucks, but yeah, probably. So, I don't remember. Yep. So, I mean, I guess that's one thing I'll throw out there that I none of my officers are crazy about it. They don't mind the coverage, but that means that from 9 to 11, which is right in the middle of the morning, they have to come down the come down or find somebody to come down to the station to write permits from 9 to 11.

There is kind of a crappy time to pull somebody out of what they've done. Start it. Yeah. Well, we can't really I try to keep it most people want to start early. Yeah. But I can't start any earlier than they post class days. The general rule sometimes they post it by 8:30, but that's about the earliest they're ever posted. 8 8:30 somewhere in there. And it's not guaranteed. They pretty much guarantee 9. But that cost us uh you know averaging it out probably a good way to average it out would be it cost us $40 a weekend to to do that have somebody there for permits

this time of year especially with 3 ft of snow they don't write any I wouldn't imagine it uh [clears throat] springtime and we don't charge for the permits right no we can't charge for the state permit state can but we can Well, that was that was what's going to be my next question is can we just pack like a $2 charge on it to cover the cost of [clears throat] the time?

We can't charge for permits. Going back in time, one of the things I did was when we used to have incinerators in town that uh I could charge for the inspection process and the recording process, but I couldn't actually charge for the permit. So, we established an inspection process and a record keeping process for the incinerator permits. and we were actually doing it anyhow, but until we started charging a fee for it, we could do that. But one of the things in the research then unless the laws have changed going back in time, we couldn't charge for the state per

I just I know that the state charges online. That's why I was was supposed to come back to the municipality, but that changed a long time. Yeah, you're the guys that are going to come running if something goes wrong. Yeah. a state cal stuffing butt. So, you

said I was frowning. I'm I'm numbers aren't adding up to me on something and I am trying to figure out why. Okay. Okay. Workers compensation. Uh last year it was all under administration. We spent 12,556. Mhm. This year you've split it out into fire and public works. Public works is 21,000. fire is 11,000 and you've got 1,600 here which is 30 $33,000

which is almost three times as much for workers comp. So So that 11,488 is based off of the fire department lines on the actual bill which is included in the administration section. the the amount that is included [clears throat] in the administrative section s se session. If you look um all right you look on the administrative session section

nope that's animal control that's not going to help me. All right there's a Bangor Daily News article and then right after that you'll find a main municipal association workers compensation fund. That's the actual bill for this year.

Nope. And you'll look on the back. It has the actual amounts of the payroll, estimated payroll, the rates that are charged, and then it it has the amounts that that they're charging. So, I didn't figure out payroll for this for fire or for the offices. So the fire on the offices come directly off of this bill. But for the

roads, the roads is significantly underestimated according to our estimations. So I because when it was done last we hired we started the public works department in May. So it was all summer payroll. Even for what we paid last year, we're underestimated. So, I I actually included an extra $1,100 to cover the audit that's going to come up, and we're going to be under we're going to be over what they had estimated us as having payroll. And what we're build for is under what we're estimating our payrolls. Does that make sense? As your payroll goes up, your cost increases for workers compensation. So what we spent last year, the 12,500 was actually based on 2013's payroll

because or No, no, it was it was based on an ex a guesstimate that I think Janet had come up with. So it's it's split out in summer and winter roads. The summer roads is estimated to have a payroll of 75,382, right? Do you see that on the bill? Okay. The Winter Roads is estimated to have a payroll of 45,262. If you add those two together, let's see if I can do my math right. You're up to 120,000, right? $125,000 for payroll. Am I

Yeah. 120 something like that. And we're estimating $250,000 worth of payroll. So that means that when they audit us, our workers compensation is going to be significantly. I realize that, but three time we paid we actually spent last year 12,556. Last year we spent $12,556 and this year we're projecting to spend 31 33,000. That's that's why I'm

I think that's going to factor in the likelihood that we're going to get tagged for for being so but she you said you you put in,00 for the last for this last year because we were under last year and when I I figure out the numbers for the winter and the summer roads that we were under last year I come up with a figure of $1,100 is what we're going to get tagged for in the audit.

I mean we don't have to put the extra in. No, no. I'm just trying make up for it in 2016. No, I'm I'm just trying to figure Why it's three times more. Why? I mean, if you if you look go look at the roads, it would be unusual the fact that we were 100% off on our payroll estimate

seems to be well because we spent uh that's what I'm trying to figure out because even with this even with did I mean you said the rates increased 10% too. No, this isn't where the rates increased. Okay. Okay. So, if you look at

I I don't want to end it here then, but are we all set with the chief? I mean, we're getting Yeah. Um the only the only other thing is just do you want to look at capital projects? He he put in for 50,000 this year. Do we want to keep it at the 50,000 or do we want to look at that? Um we it was 35 last year. He asked for 40 last year. It was cut back to 35. Um

[laughter] He's going to say 60. We all we're cutting everywhere we can. You understand that? You heard that? You understand where we're all coming from? You willing to take some hits for us or are we going to have to do it for you or

understand what I'm trying to say? Volunteer to do it. Yeah. I actually readjusted the capital thing too based on some of our conversation, but I I didn't change the amount of money going. He did readjust looking out. Um instead of instead of uh looking to do another engine next year, he pushed it out for another year and pulled the paving in. There were two years of 20,000 uh starting two years from now. He pulled that into next year, all of it in one year, 40,000. It's a so it for next year it changed it by 20,000, dropped it by 20,000 and pushed the engine out one year. Um, I actually

public works to do the [laughter] actually spread it out to 2030. It actually it came out better even. That's going to be a touchy subject. The fire department got a paving job in the roads. That's going to be a touchy subject.

Why don't you wait till that happens? Hey, we didn't touch any of the roads, but the fire department got a brand new. Can we get reimbured for 225,000 in the public? Maybe something. Can we get reimbured for that? Well, reimbured.

It's not going to be a reconstructor. I'm just curious. It says uh in a manner of speaking. Yes. You're talking about where we pay. Yeah. Yeah. We we pay a variety of different fees. There's one service doesn't charge us. I think one the top service charges

something like that. As far as being reimbured in a manner of speaking, yes, we do. When we build, we build for a transport at a paramedic level and for paramedic interventions. Um, but as far as actually getting, okay, so and so build you X for that. On the low end, we're probably doing okay. On the high end, we're getting discount, especially depending on the type of insurance people have. Bottom line is depending on the type of insurance people have, we may not even be getting paid what the intercept costs the time.

um any revenues that we generate from transports go into the capital account. That's the that's revenues you see. So in a manner of speaking, yeah, we we do pull them out. No. Yeah, it's kind of a the high-end ones. I'd be willing to bet if I actually followed it, we're not getting completely reimbursed once we take our our expenses and stuff for what it's costing us, especially depending on what the people have for insurance. I don't want to categorize people with their insurance and stuff, but some insuranceances

cover more than others actually pay Yeah. pay virtually nothing to get away with. Okay. So, is that 50 and was that 30 you said? Huh? Is that 50,000 you said? Yeah, it's 50,000. We did 35 last year plus there was last year there's approximately what somewhere around 5,000 from the budget that was turned in to that.

Yeah, last year we had a surplus. This year there's no sur 18 bucks. Um and um the the to the 50,000 is to try to keep on track with the plan and understand what you're saying. Yeah, he's ask he's actually looking ahead next year. I think it was 60 for next or 55 for next year.

Yeah, it actually what the plan does is it went 4050 60 next year and then after that it went up in $5,000 increments until it got to the $100,000 mark and then actually that one I submitted it that goes out to 230. I think about 22 or something like that we hit the $100,000 mark and it kind of stabilized and stayed there. I actually think it [clears throat] at that transitional point I got it here somewhere I but anyways at that transitional point [snorts] I think the town has an option of deciding well do we keep trying to increase this 5,000 and make it so that we don't have to finance as much I think we kind of the first transition was kind of rushed and tight the second transition is starting to even out a little and we'll be towards the end of that second transition of replacement of the having the capital plan and the placement schedule and stuff like that. And I think by then we're getting to a

point where now we can make a decision. Do we actually try to have money ahead so that we can pay for some of the smaller items or rather than financing them, you know? So, but I left it at 100,000 and rather than continuing to increase it because so that you could see where we're at because you can actually you got one or two tough years and then you can actually ride on that 100,000 for quite a while though. 2030 we were still riding on that 100,000. Not how I do it but that's how I put it down. [clears throat and cough]

So, I gota think about this year. Yeah. When that's do when we're finished with this. Do we want to about putting money aside for to start building a capital fund for the public works equipment. I I think we're going to have to start thinking about that because we've got four pieces, five pieces of relatively old equipment that are going to have to be replaced over the next few years, but and we knew that going into it. Um but

we got a plan, right? All right. So, what does the uh board want to do anything on the capital projects or leave it as it is? I think we leave it and let let the budget committee have something to do. It's going to get capped. I [laughter] already know that it's going to get wiped. It's going to get nibbled down.

Oh, yeah. You know darn well that they're that's where they're going to hit, you know. So, if we don't hit it now, then maybe they won't hit it too hard, you know. Maybe they [laughter] will. Okay. All right. So, the workers comp on these are based on the actual

Yeah, I think you're done with Yeah, I think we're done. I I see you. Uh they're based on the actual uh the factors right now. If you wanted to, I mean, we could just take what we're actually physically build and pay that this year and wait for the audit next year. it it'll catch up to us. Or I can call them up and say, "Hey, look, we've we've redone our estimates and this is what

I mean, I think I think we're probably better off just going ahead and biting the bullet because next year we're going to have to do the same. We're probably going to have to do the same thing." And so we're going to be behind by $10,000 next year. And so we're going to have to put it the 10,000 plus another 10,000 in for it. Well, I think might as well just go with what what if we know

and if we don't spend all the uh all the s all the labor line in there then we can uh get a refund or get a credit applied. Right. Yeah. Okay. If we overpay we get it back. Yes. the big thing is raises. Raises. Yes. And we do have a sheet here. Um, one thing that's not on I don't Okay, there's a sheet. What's not on here as far as um

the roads crew on here? No, I didn't. And but their pay is reflected in in my figuring. So, right. But that was that was a flat rate. And if I could be just devil's advocate for a moment. Sure. Just for the discussion. The roads crew has worked for us for less than a year.

So are we looking at giving them raises when we've employed them for less than a year? Most of them will be almost a year by by the time we get to we we hired in we hired in uh April. They started work in May. So we may But are these raises retroactive to January?

No, no, no. They just go from None. None of the raises here are retroactive. The only only one that's kind of retroactive is is it wasn't retroactive, but because we just gave you the raise. So that goes back to February.

That's the question, too. Would Chiefs be retroactive or would Okay, Chiefs would be the raises all take effect after the town meeting. Okay. So even if he gets the raise that he's asking for, I think his figure is a little inflated then because of the time difference. You know, the 14 weeks is at the old rate and then there's I guess 28 weeks at the new rate. So, um, and so when we're thinking about this, I mean, do you want to look at the roads crew separately from all the others, or do you want to have the roads crew included in the in the pool in the overall pool and figure out from there? How do we want to do that?

we should have everybody in the pool. I'm not really sure with the road school this year because it's a timing thing. The tough part of that is is you've got, you know, if if you've got everybody in the same pool, how how does the fire chief I mean, there would have to be some pretty good communication there between the fire chief and the road commissioner about how to divvy that up.

No, no, no. We divvy it up. So, we divy up. We We take a pool. We say, "But how are we giving it up? We don't do these people's reviews." Yes, we do. We do some of them and we have all of the reviews. Yeah, we So, we do the fire chief's review. We We haven't done the road commissioners, but we will start doing it.

We do their review their laborers. No, but uh so the chief put in what he wants for his labor as far as the as far as like the road crew. Sean did their reviews, but we have them right here. We can go look at them. So, we can

we gave we can base our and we did give one member of the roads crew a raise already this year. Yes. The 90-day review and we gave them a raise. Yeah. And um we give anybody else raises at their 90-day review or I don't I don't believe so because several of them we hired at the top of our pay scale,

right? Yeah. He was particularly low, I think. And that's why that's why we rock bottom of our pay scale. Yeah. So um whatever we decide for a percentage and we look at all the the salaries there and we say okay we have this much if we

choose 2%. Okay 2% of all these salaries this is how much of a pool we have to work with and we say okay we'll give this much to this one this much to that one. Last year we gave that discretion to the chief. So you're saying this year we would not give them discretion

for the chief. The chief is actually not asking for any quote raise. Uh the only thing he's asking is to move to high raise the ceiling and and everything under that is based on a step and a step and years scale basically. and and if you've maxed out your you know you you get up to a certain point you may have a couple more steps or a couple more certifications or something like that but you can't move because you're at the ceiling

the biggest pieces for the chief's labor increases in the chief's labor his request for 5% and increasing the part-time hours yeah he's yes he's asked to increase the part-time out four hours a week total um which was 6 * 6 * 24. So 4 hours a week

is 18%. I have a hard time giving the chief 5%. Even if you're just raising that bar, when everybody else is asking for less than Oh, well, you heard me say it to me. Oh, yeah. Five. That's I wish I can get a 5%. I walk my boss do it every day. [laughter] Um and that was so that's where the the budget committee um came down on the selectman several years because they were they put in 3% 3% 3% and it was a and the budget committee was right is um it seems like you think that's an entitlement right uh 3% every year um and So we we we they uh then we put in

0% some years because it was bad or or we did a 1 and a half%. Well, why are you doing a flat? And so that's why we did and we really confused them last year when we did it and we did the pool in and I I have a I have an idea of how we can how we can have a sheet that shows it better so they know where cuz if you're pooling from different lines,

right? Um and then they say, "Well, we don't want you to do a one we don't want you to do a 2%. We want you to do a 1% pool." and then they start cutting the money from everywhere and you all of a sudden you don't have enough to give a 1% pool. So, um,

so I guess that's do we want to do it by because right now it's almost kind of by department. We've got the uh administration department, we've got the fire department, and we've got the um roads. And we can do a pool for each department. Or we can do an overall pool. The overall pool allows you to reward one reward somebody a little bit better because you've got a little bit more and then somebody else may not get as much. The the uh doing a pool for each department is a lot easier to explain.

Let's do that. Keep it simple. And when we look at the pool for public works, we just look at their base pay. We don't factor in overtime when we're taking our percentage. Correct. Correct. We don't we factor in it's a percentage of base pay. It's not a percentage of total payroll. Correct.

Right. We we we we just Yeah. Um it ends up being factored in because you have to you you have to calculate whatever you give as a raise across all the overtime that you're projecting. But yeah, why is it why is it harder to understand if you have a pool for all the departments as opposed to a pool for separate department?

Because they they last year when we went through this um they didn't necessarily like the number we chose and they tried to they tried to put it in and they ended up double cutting because they cut they cut everything out of admin. So they said, "Okay, we're going to cut it from a two to a 1%." And they took all that money out of administration and then they went over to fire and took it out of fire again.

But they cut the pool and then they cut individual salaries as well. So it ended up being Yeah. How it it Yeah. It was it was it was Well, I think sometimes the budget committee has some good ideas and good thoughts, so we should listen to them. But it's almost sound like we're going to take direction from them. And I don't think that's

No, no, no. That's not the the issue was we tried to That was not how it was resolved. We tried to explain to them that well you were you're trying to do this but you ended up cutting from you ended up cutting the whole chunk from here and then you cut some more of it from over here and then you did some more of it over here and so you're not doing what you're actually saying you're trying to do

and we were able to resolve that ultimately. But I guess that would fall back to my comment I've made a couple times that the budget committee needs to meet with the Sutman at least three if not four times a year on the budget quarterly so that we don't have that issue come the end of the year and they only meet once and try to chunk it all up. They can actually see what's going on

over the co and I know that may be hard to do but we need to look at that just keep that on the top of our heads and just what was the uh percentage that you put in three. Okay. The initial one said two, I think. Right. No, no, three. It's always been

Okay. I I think at one point it was it I thought the first one I saw said, yeah, at one point there was two, I think. Go with two. Well, go with two. Um I think if you look at cola, I think that was one 1.34 1.34. So two is ahead of cola.

I go two. Um, but so if we go for a two pool and so let's see what is uh Jill is specifically requested 1550 correct which is a little over 3% 2.3% a two would be 1530. Um I'm not have to look and we have to be careful at this point. Um if if we're going to spec specifically talk um reviews, we need to go into executive session. If we're if we're not going to specifically talk about specific reviews, we don't. Do we need to um

do we need to specifically put down who's going to get what amount break at this point or do we just need to go with the percentage of a pool? And I understand we need to know roughly what we're going to give somebody so we make sure we get enough of the pool. But

right, but we don't have to decide who's getting what right now. We we could do that and just um if we do that I would suggest that we add a line to administration expenses to each of the expenses and say um something like that and bunch it all in that line and then leave the other salary lines

flat fun except flat problem we run into with that is that it changes everything else. It changes the the but that's all per the but that's all still you just include that into the PERS calculation because it's all still in the same bud same line I think yeah I think you can still do that same

and so then we could um and then we don't actually have to when it when it come when April comes we can actually go into executive session and just determine determine the the specific raises All right. And so what was the uh you said the

uh roads one was on 3% too, right? So So that should actually cut a little out of that. I don't think you need to separate them into departments either. I mean if we get a pool and we get a pool. Well, we we need to we we need to have it in the departments because it's going to the money is going to come out of that department when we start paying it. So, so you need to have that pool each pool in each

and much easier to understand too. Yeah. For me, I'll be honest. [laughter] I'm over here. My wife's actually running for a seat on that board. So, uh, and she's actually an accountant, so these things make very much sense to her.

So, and I think that would I think that would help um rather he's not running again. Oh, he's not. He is not. Okay. We had that question. We were wondering is not but I think that would help um simplify it for the budget committee as well they can look at that one line and change that one line and

true. So and then next year when we come back you just assume they're going to change that one line that when when we come back that line will actually be expended zero and the difference will be in the in the salary line. Y

So, are we going to put John in with the office people? Um John's will need to go into the telecommunications budget. Okay. Because and and Jill's will have to go into each of her, right? and and um I guess we need to we

need to decide whether we're going to give her her requested amount or not. I think if we're doing a 2% pool, I think it has to be Yep. all the way around form across the board. I think just because she requested something

I'll agree with that. Chief requested more too. Yeah. We have to be treat everybody equally mean and we're it's not that far off. Yes. Right. um that calculation a lot easier. Um for budget packets, if we can get that into a spreadsheet, what I have up on there or something. Um it's not it's not

100%. I in fact I know the workers comp isn't because we didn't obviously we didn't spend 18,000 this this last year but it it would have been probably fairly it would probably been uh 11 12,000 if we'd actually paid for it last year.

Right. So, to go through anything more or should we wait till tomorrow when we can see when cuz we did cut a little bit. Um, right. We should have final numbers to vote on each one tomorrow. Yeah, we and we should be able to vote on each one by just going down through this uh kind of

kind of going down through that. Um, did you want to take the total of like all the salaries, multiply it by 2% and then divvy it up depending on who you want? I mean, who depending on the the reviews, we'll we'll divvy it up um in April if it passes. Basically, we'll have an executive session to do the divvying up. Don't include yours. Make sure you use You put yours the exactly the way it's going to be because we've already given you the raise,

right? But I'm gonna I'm gonna include uh Pam, Shannon, Bri, and Jill in the office, the administration. And then Jill will be in planning board and telecom also. And Bri will also be in Eureka. Eureka. Yeah. Okay. And and if we decide to give a little bit, it's it won't it won't throw off the budget that much. If we decide to give a little bit more to like Bri or we decide to give a little bit more to, you know, when looking at it, we decide to give a little bit more to Jill, it'll it'll it actual amount that it will change that will be, you know, few dollar, maybe a $100 or something like that. It's not going to blow the budget.

Okay. Yeah. No, no, we've already done that. Yeah, it's a it's one of those things that was surprising to me when I first became a selectman because I made everybody property taxes. It's the nature of the beast is how tight this budget is. I I

don't think that there's a lot of no extraneous spending. for all people talk about, you know, public spending and I just say like I said about the bathing fire station, we got to get something done on the roads because if we pave that fire station and the roads none of the roads get touched, holy, I'm going to hear it from every side and

problem is the roads haven't been done for quite a while because we the situation we've been having. Absolutely. I understand. But you know what I'm saying. Oh yeah, I agree. I do. They get a nice little pave job over there and the roads get the road fix this year.

I'm going to hear it. say if it's a bottle drive or [laughter] I mean not that saying he doesn't deserve to get another layman going over there don't get me wrong I know that there was a couple spots that Sean tried to do that they where he did it with the grater and I'm glad he did because there was a couple spots like like

it did it it did it did help you know there was a spot on the boy hill road that he wasn't going to do and then he tried that and there was that one on the deer so that that route where that roto suck was I mean low cars if I haven't gone down there with my vet I would have took the whole model of that right out you know I mean just So

yeah, if if you can give us our final numbers tomorrow and maybe I mean if maybe the budget committee will come because we're still going to be about a 5.3 5.4% increase even with what we cut tonight. Does John did you have to talk about telecom?

Cut it all. How do you turn that thing off? [laughter] By the way, you didn't laugh. Hey, I didn't touch it. Uh oh. Let me Let me in trouble. You should show me. I usually just pull a plug. You're just going to unplug it.

You should have said the power strip. We all know what a power strip is. Second. All in favor? Motion carries.