TranscriptSelect Board Meeting ~ February 24, 2026

Heat. Heat. [music] Heat. Heat. [music] Oh, smart. Got a connection. All righty. I gave you one. I chew on the I got I got one. Sorry. Hey, you guys do too. Jerry, do you have a chief? Do you have an extra pen? Oh, you're not taking You got one?

I got one right here. Hey, [snorts] watch out. That white shirt, the paint could bleed through pretty easily there. I dress up once in. All righty, let's get this started. We have a quorum um called to order the meeting here at 6:30 at uh 224

2026. Begin with the pledge of allegiance. [clears throat] Pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. All righty. Uh, amendments to the agenda. We're just going to say um move uh Cassella up to the first order of new business unless the representative wants to hang out for most of our meeting. So, does that work for folks? All right. So, I would motion to move Cassella up to the first order of new business. Do I have a second?

Second. Any questions or discussion? All right. All in favor? Any opposition? Seeing none, it passes unanimously. All right. Uh, public comment. Do we have any public comment? Okay. What do we What are we discussing tonight?

Uh, so do you have a copy? Do we have a copy of the agenda? I don't nothing about the bags and just this is just tonight's discussion is going to be with Cassella about the trash pickup. The bag discussion will be at a future meeting because those are two separate companies. So, all righty. Any public comment? All right. Seeing none. All right. All right. Do I have a motion to approve last meeting's minutes?

Motion to approve. Motion from Deb. Do I have a second from John? Any questions? All in favor? Any opposition? Seeing none, passes unanimously. All righty. So, um, automated trash collection discussion with Cassella. So, we have a, uh, representative from Cassella here to give us this presentation. And um uh we also have the opportunity to ask some questions. Um just so you know, we have uh this is live stream and we encourage folks to tune in tonight because it's been a very um lots of discussion and questions and stuff like that. So we also uh I'll let you present here, but we solicited a lot of questions from the community. Um so we have those if they don't get covered in the conversation.

We can run through high level whatever is in the presentation. There's going to be questions after, so feel free to stop me as I'm talking and and uh whatever we don't address, we can Yeah. address it. Mr. Chair, did she identify?

Yeah. Yeah. If you could just identify yourself, let us know who you who you are and what you're here for. My name is Talia Webster. I'm the municipal account manager for Excel Waste and Southern. All righty. Thank you. Um so the first slide here, I have a general timeline. Um this is a timeline that we've discussed with Jerry and Calvin. Um carts are ordered and we want to get the ball rolling with this automated transition. So we've agreed on beginning of April. Uh right now we're thinking that cart distribution is going to take about a week um during a very big town. So we'll have an extra few days to uh clean up. That's why that Saturday the 13th and the 14th are also highlighted. Um our experience from all of these rollouts is there's going to be a few days we're going to have to do some clean up. meaning for whatever reason the resident did get a cart, um all they have to do is call us by a

certain date if they didn't get a cart and we'll have one dropped off to them before the start of automation. Um just a quick question about that. So how is that can you describe how that process is going to look in terms of driveways and people being home, not home, etc.

Yeah. So Jessica, do you have another copy slide? Becky, we'll kind of get into that later, but I'll kind of briefly address it now. So, we work with a third party distribution company called Weaway Support Systems. Um, we project manage the whole process, but we've worked with them on the majority of the transitions that we've done in Southern Maine. Um, so essentially what we do to start that process is we get an assessor list from the town hall. We go through that assessor list. We identify multi-units. We identify a views to make sure that, you know, those multi-units are getting multiple sets of cards versus just being delivered one. um we take all the businesses out to ensure that only residents are getting the cards and not businesses and then we give that list to way support systems

and they'll deliver by route day. So um if we're starting distribution on the Monday, Wednesday will get their carts before they move on to Thursday before they move on to Friday. Right. So I mean is it dropped off at the end of a driveway? It's dependent on if you're on a private road versus public. Typically, they will drop the carts off at the end of your driveway. Um, if they don't, if it's a private road and it's a little iffy on whether they want to go down it with their truck or not, they'll leave them um at the top of the road in like a group pile situation where people would normally put their trash out.

Okay. Could you describe or define cart? Is it just the two bins? Is it some kind of base platform that they sit in or the cart. So, um it's a a wheeled bin. Um it has a lid and it's 65 gallons. So, they'll get one for trash and one for recycle.

Uh the trash bin will have a black lid and it will say for trash only. The recycle will have a blue lid so that the resident and the driver can easily identify. Okay. But the word cart equals two bins. And you say cart. Um, so that actual first day of automation is going to be on Wednesday the 15th. So again, we'll have that that week, week and a half to make sure cars are distributed and then we'll start rolling out the new truck on Wednesday the 15th.

the preparation process because it's not just throw a truck out there and everybody has to figure it out. We've actually put a lot of time and effort into prepping for this transition. Um, so what we do ahead of time is we we do a townwide road evaluation. So we go, we drive the roots, we drive up and down every single road. And what we're looking for, um, is, you know, how do we service this road today? Do we drive down this road? Do we back down this road? Do we have to collect it as a group pile at a main road? Do we one side the road? Meaning, you know, people on the odd side might have to wheel their carts over. Think of Royals Burrow as one of them. Um, and we're looking for the most efficient and compliant cart uh placement locations because we know this is a big change for residents. Um, from this evaluation, we say, "Okay, here's how we're servicing servicing it today." Um, the truck is a little bit

bigger than the one we're using today. So, we evaluate just to make sure that the new ASL larger truck is able to maneuver down a road. Um, and what we look for for cart placement guidelines is, um, you know, if we're going to be able to drive down it, residents will be able to place their carts out as normal at the end of their driveway. Um, if we'll need to back down it, that's going to be some extra communication out to those res residents ahead of time. The automated arm is on one side of the truck. It's on the passenger side. Um, even though the driver drives from that side. So whether it's the even or odd side of the road, we'll have to send a letter to those residents ahead of time saying, "Hey, the truck has to back down your road." So all of your carts have to be on this side.

Good question. And that would just mean because there's no turnaround, adequate turn. So that's generally going to be in situations like roads that are for subdivisions and stuff like that, not your state highways or your T roads.

I [clears throat] don't think you're backing down 36. So no, those most of those we drive down. Um, and like I said, they they went out and evaluated and operations does this. Um, even the roads that we one side today and we're going to be able to accommodate residents to be able to drive up and down both sides of the road so we're not having residents wheeling their carts across the road.

Yeah. So, that that was a big question um to not to jump the gun here, but particularly around Route 125, 136, and Route 9. Um, especially [clears throat] because we had a fatality last year with someone crossing the road. Uh will those three roads be able to be picked up on both sides so people can just Okay. Yeah. Another concern was people were like, you know, fitting it on the other side of the road,

small shoulder. I was snow like I've snowblowed that shoulder to make room for the bins and gets a little sketchy um with the tractor in the in the middle of the road. So that for those three roads, they should be both sides now.

You said it. We've got to uh do a little bit of a reroute. So, we'll continue the communication on that and what that's going to look like, but we should be able to hoping that. So, just in kind of line with what Joe is asking, the people who are on

other roads and if the placement is going to be opposite or different from what residents are used to, will how will make that? We've already identified those roads. So, we're going to send a letter ahead of time. All right. Even to the regular people, not that you on 125, you're not everybody on that road will get a letter regardless if they're on the odd side or the even side. Okay.

Just we know people talk to. So, if someone on the odd side sees it, someone on the even side doesn't, they can try to communicate with their neighbors. And is that going with the what you had in the document for the um the layout of everything along with it? uh page seven,

the mailer. Yeah. So, that mailer will be sent out ahead. We're actually looking to send that out the next couple of weeks now that we have the dates down. Um we'll obviously get approval on timing from the town before we send anything out. And we'll keep you updated so you all know that something is going out. But around that same time, uh the mailer is just meant for a general, hey, here's what's going on. Carts are coming. You don't have to be home to receive them. Um if you're concerned that you won't be home, you can call us ahead of time and we can put it on a hold until you come back. Um we've done that in other communities, too. We'll be um we'll have an operations team out ahead of the truck for the first couple of weeks of automation or first few weeks just to make sure everything's running smoothly for the truck and for the residents. So, we'll be driving around ahead of the truck. any cart

placement issues. We'll be moving them um to help out the driver, but we'll also be tagging them to let the resident know, hey, this was too close to a mailbox for next week. Make sure it's at least, you know, 3 to 5t away from the mailbox. The concern there is that we don't want the automated arm to rip your mailbox out of the road. But

you got to watch out for the plows. Pretty much any fixed object, we don't want the cards around. Um, and then if they're too close together, uh, all of the marketing that we send out says 3 ft, but realistically 1 foot between those carts is fine because we know spacing doesn't an issue on some of the busier roads.

Did you say you'll have those lookouts uh for the first couple weeks of implementation? Okay. And I also have a question. Will the town receive like a summary of um any changes that you're going to communicate out to the residency so we can post on our website if people want to look up certain things?

Yes, absolutely. So the evaluation list that we have, we'll actually provide that and we encourage you to post it on your website. So if someone maybe missed a letter or something and they want to know where to place their carts,

um they can just check the town website, pull up the road name and it'll say, you know, back down, drive down or group pile. Um there are still going to be some roof pile locations. That's something we're not going to be able to to fix with those private roads that that we can't send our trucks down, but um those people will know that ahead of time.

And it's more more or less the ones that um group pilot today. So there won't be really any surprise there. The only difference is now you know you're you're dragging the card up the road versus whatever your personal bin is or just your bag. Um, with that, we've, you know, some towns are different, and I think we talked about this last week, Jerry. Um, if you're willing to allow the residents to leave their carts at the top of their roads, kind of off to the side until collection day, nothing changes for them other than they've got to bring their bag, put it in the cart, and then just make sure it's curbside so the truck can collect it that week, that day.

So everybody will get a letter that says you're whether they're a peculiarity or not, everybody's getting a letter says you're an odd side guys, right? That you're you're okay. So any road we back down or any group pile road will get a letter letting them know.

What about just the like the the road I live on right now? Everything's on one side. What you're saying is it could be on both sides, right? With those those roads. I think like I said, Boros is one of them. Um, we'll send letters to those folks as well just to let them know they don't have to drag them across.

Okay? Cuz I'm not a weird road. It's, you know, stackpull. So, it's okay. So, weird people live anomalies. We'll we'll make sure that communication goes out ahead of time. Like I said, we'll provide the list to the town as well. Um, so we can always refer back to encourage residents to check the town website for any changes.

Okay. So just to be clear, so status quo people will not get letters. If if nothing changes, you just put nothing changes, you won't get but you will get the new guidelines with the notice that they come. Okay. Um all of this being said, with all of the preparation work, there is going to be some things that we come across when we actually get the truck out there and that we may have to change. So, we just like to let everybody know like, you know, there's going to be ongoing changes. Um, we try to minimize it by prep preparing, but there's only so much preparation we can do until you actually get the truck out there. So, anything that changes after the fact, there will be communication to the town and the resident.

What What do you do? So, I mean, I've got a picture two weeks ago where the top third of my trash can got taken off. Uh, which is not the first time. Uh, you know, two weeks before that, I lost one of the wheels. A week after I've spent 10 and whatever on it, I lost the cover. Uh, the recycle bin. You know, it's cracked. Still the rest of it still together somehow, but um I mean I I took a picture of it just like am I going to be responsible for replacing that?

No. So, uh, Cassella is managing the cart program for the resident. So, if there's anything wrong, whether it be the wheel, body, the lid, um it goes missing, someone takes it, you call and we get a replacement out to you.

I There was a um somebody had mentioned a while ago that there's a barcode on all of the individual ones, but that is the barcode that is registered to the resident. So, there's no way for the truck to read the barcodes today, right?

Uh but upon initial distribution, um we'll have a list. So, it'll have everyone's address, how many cars they were delivered, and what those barcodes or serial numbers are tied to that address. So, for instance, um we live next to each other, but Josh's

bin ends up in my driveway and mine is in a ditch somewhere. We'll know by the barcode or like with the serial number or whatever it is. You write the serial number down, you would know, right? But again, if if something's an addiction and it goes missing, just call us and we'll come out and replace it.

Will a Cassella app um be user friendly in regards to followup or can I contact you through the Cassella app? Yeah, so we can we haven't done this in another community yet, but we have the ability to set up a cart order tab.

Um so what that would mean is when you're looking at the app, there's obviously like the need help section, there's the calendar, and there's a waste wizard. We can add if this is something you want to move forward with. We can add a cart order app or tab in there. Um so if a resident needs a replacement, they can communicate with us directly instead of having to call in. [clears throat]

Otherwise, they can use the need help section and just say my recycling filter card, you know, [clears throat] I needed and wanted. Does the town end up paying for these replace? No, none at all. Okay. That's all included in the program. Um

what's the usually the turnaround time for when someone requests a new bin or something? So we say seven to 10 business days. Um but it's usually much quicker than that. That's just the expectation that we set. We try to get it to them before their next collection day.

And I want to jump ahead John. No, I just make sure the it's the recycle 101 out. Yeah. Yep. Recycle better than Okay. cuz and oh the report a problem is that yeah so if you go to that need help section there's like report missolction and then I think there's well two below that it might say I have another issue or another problem um if you click on that it's kind of like a free form you just have to you have to provide your phone number your name your email just so we can contact you back

but there's a nonapp option if someone just wants to call and say okay call um I don't want to jump the gun but while we're on the question of of bins. Um, so some of the u comments we've received are about the bin size being pretty large, especially we've had some of our more elderly residents reach out and say like that's a pretty unwieldy size for me.

Is is do all of the bins have to be that size or is there an opportunity to request a smaller bin? All of the bins we have ordered for the transition are 65gallon. What we have found in other transitions in other towns is that um while people think they're big, um they have a lot more capacity than a smaller cart would. So if you

I don't I don't know what's going on with the pay as you throw program, but say that goes away. Now you only have that 65gallon cart. Um that might change things in terms of what's coming out as trash. Um we ask people to try them out for two weeks. Um because what we found in other communities again is I want smaller cards. Hey, actually these are working out for me so I'm going to keep these. Um we will we will work with people after after that initial twoe period on a smaller card option if it deems necessary.

Okay. Excess. Does anybody remember just on that note? Oh, it's a 33 gallon for the large bags. Is that right? No. Yeah. the pay as you go with the bags come in tall kitchen which is 13 or or bigger which is 33 gallon right okay I see okay

okay one of the things that we were told was um at the end instead of leaving it like along the road like we do now we can sort of lead them up the driveway is that some that's something we can do what do you mean out the driveway

like instead of you know if if this is the driveway instead of leaving them here I can put one here and one here and the arm can reach that. Uh, no. So, we need them to be curbside. Yeah, we it can reach up to 12 feet, but if there's one stacked behind another, we can't get that one behind it. So, we want them side by and as close to curbside as possible.

Okay. They can if it's like ft back, that's not a big deal. But it's also about visibility for the driver, too. Depending on the visibility on the road, we want to make sure they can see it. They don't just drive by because they didn't see it. Okay.

Um, another question on carts. I had someone ask today, is there opportunity if if a house is a high volume trash or high volume recycling house to request a second bin? Um, so the way we have the the uh contract built today is everybody gets one trash at one recycle.

If it starts to become a problem, that's something we can revisit. Um, but we try to avoid giving out extra carts to control volume. Yeah, I was thinking about that cuz like I produce a lot of recycling. So currently there's times where I put out two recycling containers, but neither one of my containers are 65gallon containers. So could I probably make it work for

where we see issues with uh recycling in those 65gallon containers if if folks aren't breaking their boxes down properly. Yeah. So most people just think, "Oh, I bought like a 32-in TV. I'll just flatten it and try to stick it in there." if they just take the extra second or minute to

cut it up and fit it in there, um they'll have a lot more capacity in there than Yeah. So, it sounds like through the whole experience of having other communities doing this, the the thing is like really give the two 65gallon bins a try because it probably is going to assuage most of your concerns. If there is additional issues, then reach out to us and we might be able to figure something out.

So, the carts weigh about 28 lbs a piece. um where they get really heavy is where people are putting things in them that aren't supposed to be in there that aren't necessarily household trash. So, it's really about what you're putting into it. If you're putting normal household trash in there, it's not going to get that much heavier.

Yeah. But don't put your deer carcass in there come November. Not that anyone would do that. Construction material or anything that's really not supposed to be in there. So then the rule really is if you have more trash than the carts uh can handle for one week, you just need to save that until the following week.

Correct. Okay. Or ask your neighbor or ask your friends and neighbors. Yes. Um good point. So just to clarify, when the truck comes around and if the bin is not closed all the way shut closed, is that an issue? It's not. Um the real issue with the bins being open is um you know when it's raining or when it's snowing right in the winter um

like recycling poking out. We prefer it to be closed especially in the winter months because what happens is moisture gets in there and then it freezes sometimes that frozen recycling won't come out no matter how hard the driver tries to dump it. Either that or ice will accumulate in the bottom of it

and because it's bottom heavy as it's being tipped it'll slip out of the arm into the hopper of the truck. Following up with that same question, uh I moved from a place that used this and a lot of people would just pile it up. So, you know, they just put it on top of

uh Is that a problem? Or I guess the question is how high do they pile it? So, the bin is full, they keep putting bags on top. Yeah. I would say no more than one bag for that because what you also run into is as the truck's trying to dump it, you have multiple bags piled on top, there's a chance those bags are falling over, breaking, now there's trash everywhere. A driver will do their best to get out and clean up what they can. Um, but we want to try to avoid that spillage, if you will.

When you say no more than one bag, what what do you mean? No, like he was saying if if uh my bin is full and I have extra, can I stack it on top of no Jenga bags there going on? I wouldn't I wouldn't stack it more than maybe one bag.

Okay. Um I have a question. The driver that will be our as we move out to implement will that driver have experience with this with the truck already or they started training already. Okay. Um so they'll be fairly new to it. So it's going to take a little bit of getting used to for them as well. That's why we have the specific part placement instructions asking for them to be one to three feet apart from each other. Um, so he can get in there and what happens if they're too close sometimes is if he's has the fork in there, he can accidentally knock over the recycling bin or the trash bin, whatever one he's not collecting and then it causes a mess. But as as they get comfortable with it, they'll be able to pick up anything. No problem. The one thing I did also want to mention um about the carts is if you have overflow for your trash, please do not put that in your recycling bin.

Um we want to try to avoid contamination. Right now there's a guy in the back of the truck that's able to monitor that with the bins. It's going to be a little bit harder for us to monitor that. But um but the education up front is we want the recycling to remain clean. So if there's any overflow and we start to notice, we will let the town know and likely we'll be able to contact that res.

Speak. Speaking of that, um, is there any sort of tracking system you all use to say like every week Jerry is messing up his recycling, so we're just not going to pick up from him anymore. Is there anything like that? So the drivers have a camera.

Not that Jerry would do that, but you know what I mean. The drivers have a camera in the hopper. um they can see what's being dumped. So, if they notice something crazy is in there that's not recyclable, like a TV's in there every week, um they'll let dispatchers know and then we can communicate that with town.

Um other than that, unfortunately, the materials already be being dumped into the truck. The driver will get out and tag it um regardless, but um there's technology that you can monitor recycling with. downside to the technology is just an added cost and it's, you know, an extra 20 to 30 grand a year to have that on the truck. [clears throat]

Following up on the camera, you said there's a camera in the hopper. So, if somebody's got a page as you throw on top and a black bag underneath, the driver sees that. They do. They will. Yeah. Next. Um, how so you mentioned if we're getting a little to a side here because we're the parallel to this. We're talking about pay as you go. Um, and we've talked with that company about them doing some audits and stuff like that to ensure compliance. And I'm sure you all work with plenty of pay as you go bags. Do you find that the driver cannot be the um police of pay as you go? That if you re they might be able to catch things from time to time, but you can't rely on them to be the oh that bag's wrong, right?

We're not picking up. Some of them will be able I mean they'll be able to call it in. They're pretty good at remembering stops, too. So, they'll do their best to say, "Hey, I've been to this house three weeks in a row and they're not using pays and throwbacks." But you're correct. We can't solely rely on them. Um, at the end of the day, they've got to focus on getting that route done and getting home safely.

Yeah. Because, uh, I know like right now there's a lot of compliance issues with even our tags, people cutting tags in half. There's counterfeit tags, there's, you know, people just putting up yellow flagging or whatever. And we're not expecting the drivers to, you know,

kick the trash back into the driveway if something's wrong. But I wasn't sure if it sounds like they kind of just as they go might keep in the back of their head, but it's not their primary responsibility. Okay. And um just I I thought I heard you say some something ballpark for future consideration if we decided to go the route of video monitoring. You said somewhere in the $20,000 annually,

20 to 30 grand. Yeah. So what that fee will cover would be the cost of the equipment um installed on our trucks and then uh the data and the software. So there's a a software that's a monthly fee that is included with that as well. All righty.

So that's a yearly cost or a one time yearly cost. So there's two ways we can do it. We can look at it. You can either pay for the equipment upfront and then pay monthly the sub subscription and data fees or you can choose to do everything at monthly cost.

It's it's more cost effective to pay for the equipment up front. now for their pay as you throw program. Not necessarily the uh recycling contamination, but the um the AI technology was originally developed to monitor recycling contamination.

It's working well for what North F needs it to do, but there's a cost. Um, another question that was brought up, and I know we're kind of jumping all over the place here now that there's an arm going out and grabbing stuff, what's the liability look like? Like for Cassella if they reach out and they're they knock the driver knocks over a mailbox or does some sort of property damage or something like that.

So, the driver should be reporting that in immediately and then um we will try to get contact information for that resident if they haven't called already. Most of the time they've called already. Uh we've got a separate queue for those kind of complaints. Um and then we have our operational team get right on those and we will absolutely if we cause damage, replace the mailbox, the be pit, um basketball hoops, fences. So we'll take care of that.

Okay, cool. Um can we talk about the new calendar also? The the dates so the changing We want to that being is that also going to all the residents when they get the new um out or the date their new pickup date? New Yeah.

Day of the week. Uh the days of the week should not be changing. They are Well, I get my trash picked up on a Friday. Yeah. So, we're running uh Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. So that would be Oh, but this says it's Wait, that says Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday.

Yeah, that's probably just a draft. I'm on page seven, so all of the schedule is just Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. Yeah. So, I'll fix that. Okay. But nothing changed. Okay. All right. It was very confus. Okay. any residents pickup dates.

No, all the dates are the same. All right. That's good to know. to be earlier? I mean, will the truck like go faster? And so, the theory is automation is quicker. Um but for the first couple of weeks it may not seem that way because again we're trying to work through all of the challenges. But um I would say eventually it'll be the route will be done faster. Um but for the first few weeks if the truck's not there at the normal time, please wait to call it in until the end of the day. That way you know if the truck's still out there and we're having issues or anything like that, it'll give them time to get to you by the end of the day. Speaking of that, uh, the paper here, and I know a lot of the communications that get out, and I was trying to find one earlier today, I couldn't. Um, it says have the trash out by 6:00 a.m. I thought our contract said 7 a.m.

So, where where is that in the on the page seven where it talks about the winter winter information? Yeah. We have that. Um, try to have your road plowed and treated prior to 6:00 a.m. That way by the time 7 a.m. rolls around.

Oh, I see what it says. It says if you live on a private road before 7 a.m. That way by the time the truck gets there, we'll be able to get down the road. Yeah, but I think the email say have it out by 6. Am I Was I reading them wrong?

That's what Cassella has said, right? And I just want to make sure that's it's seven, not six, because I'll confirm with our operations manager on what time we start the route. But that is specifically more so around the winter time just to try to prepare because we know plows are going to be out. Private roads contract with

you know their own people um which are a challenge in itself on during the winter. But we try to have the road plowed, sanded, salted before that. And then that way by the time the trucks get out, they're not going to have to call again because it's not treated.

And and then I'm really stuck on the placement I of the carts and I and I don't know why I'm so stuck on [laughter] a question. Is [clears throat] there any way you could work in zone with a public works problem in the winter? So if they're placed in the driveway, that's fine. But what happens is Well, obviously the snow banks, they put them in the driveway. you got a truck coming down with a wing and he's going to choose that bin over a car. So, he doesn't want to, but I mean that's that's a

tough that's something we can talk through. If it's in the driveway, it doesn't seem to be an issue, right? So, we we try to tell people to treat your cart location like you would your mailbox. So, you're you're typically going to shovel your mailbox for the mail person that's coming through. We'll try to keep a I know it's hard with the amount of snow that we have, but try as best as you can to keep a place for your carts during the winter.

I I try to do that. I try to do that with my It's near impossible. I live on Route 9. Uh and I get home and they they're never back there. I the last two weeks I've left them leaning back and still they end up in the road or they end up in the ditch. And I have to decide, do I go in there when I get home from work in my dress shoes or do I wait and hope they make it to the night or go across in the dark? Uh, but the the placement, can I leave like one card on one side of my driveway and one on the other? They don't have when it says one to three feet, it can be more than 3 ft.

Correct. Yes, we actually encourage that, too. If people are up in the air about is this, you know, properly spaced or not, if you put one on one side, one on the other, you should be fine. In terms of the reach from the arm coming down, if so to the point of with a lot of snow, if you can pat down the snow and place the bins on top of a few inches or so, how far of the reach does the arm have? Like because obviously it's it's programmed to reach for the bin that's on the road. If it's higher up, is that going to cause an issue? Um, if it's not like 2 feet up in

the air, it shouldn't be a problem. Okay. And how far away do they have to be from the snowbanks? Like they have to be a foot away from the snowbank. Like I'm thinking the end of my driveway back of it up right against the snowbank if you wanted to. Those arms are just going to reach in and put it back down where you put it where you placed it.

Yeah. I've seen a video online that actually shows the truck. Yeah. Do you have something official that we can grab? Yeah. So, we have a couple videos on our YouTube channel. One, um, and I don't know off the top of my head if we use a single commodity truck here or if we're using a dual commodity, but basically the difference is one truck is picking up trash only and then another truck is coming by with recycling. I think it's a split body truck. Um, but it flies, it's a drone. It flies over the automated truck because it is a split body truck. So, we will be collecting trash and recycling at the same time. It shows the two different cavities because a lot of people will think, "Oh, Cassell is just trashing our recycling and vice versa." Um, so I can send you that and it shows the truck collecting the carts. And then we have another cart placement specific video um that you can post on the website as

well. Can No, go ahead. Can Can you do it because I don't YouTube? My kid uses YouTube and uh Yeah, you can embed them right on the I don't I don't know if they can do your own website or if someone else we can share that. Yeah, I think

that kind of functions the same way as like annually the postal service is sharing. Here's what your drive postal uh route wants you to have, you know, clear out X, Y, and Z. Unfortunately [clears throat] or fortunately, depending on how you feel, we live in Maine, we get snow some on trash day, you might have to shovel out a little bit earlier or a little bit more. [clears throat]

Fact fact of living in Maine, right? You know, if it's a reoccurring issue at one address, our drivers are pretty good about reporting those. So, if it's something we we're like, "Hey, this has happened four weeks in a row now. We've got to somehow reach out to the resident." we'll let the town know whether they want us to send a letter to them or they want to reach out directly or we work together.

Um but just say, you know, we've been having this issue if you want to continue to get your trash recycling picked up, here's what's going to have to happen. Yeah. I imagine too once people get used to seeing it how things work with the snow, there's going to be like a sweet spot because if that arm can reach 12 ft off and you're pulling right up to the end of the driveway, um you know, even in the winter time, this the throw of the the wing of the snow plow, if you set your back your your bin 6 8t into your driveway, that arm should still be able to reach it and it shouldn't be in a spot where you know you're getting absolutely pummeled with snow.

Yeah. I I would just unless Calvin's got an issue with you and he's aiming for it when he goes by. The only thing with that is as a driver's coming down the road, if he can't see the carts, more than likely he's going to end up driving by,

you should be able to swing back around and get it. But we want to try to keep them as close to the road as possible just so they can Yeah, they can see the cars. And another question about placement. Um, so if someone's, let's say, 125 Pink

and Brook Road, we're going to put them on in our driveways. Right now, I put mine across, which I don't love, right? Uh, I forget to put it in my driveway. I see the truck go by and I think, "Oh, I'll just go out and put on the other side of the road for when it comes back by on the other side." I'm taking it. The driver will drive right by that because it's supposed to be on the driveway side.

Depending on the car placement instructions, yes. So if it's a back down, that's really the only scenario where they would have to be on one side. So what the driver will do is he'll back all the way down and then work and then drive out.

So if he backs down and he misses you and you get it over to the other side by the time he's driving up, you should be able to drive. As long as they're out and he sees them, there's no reason you should be driving past those. So, we had one resident write a concern. I don't know, their driveway was a big hill and normally they throw their trash in the back of the car or

and now they have these big bins and I guess people will just need to make it work. I mean, you have a cart, it has to be at curbside, you got to fill it up and that's what Yeah. What I had mentioned earlier is folks can leave their carts at the top of their driveway if they want if they're concerned about that. um kind of off to the side where they can build a cart corral where they put their carts in if they want it to look nice. Um and then all we ask is day of take it out of the corral or remove it from the side of your driveway and just put it curbside.

Gotcha. So that we can collect it, but it wouldn't change for them essentially. Their parts would be at the top of the driveway. They'd bring their bag up in their car, drop it in the cart, and just put it curbside. Some towns allow that, some towns don't. That's why

Yeah. All righty. This has been super informative for me so far and um all the questions that I've had submitted to me have been addressed either in your presentation or asked in followup. Does anyone have any other questions? Am I

a couple that that I got or were on some of the stuff? So, and some of these I know the answer to but we're on television so the people who asked them can hear the answer. Um, one is how is recycling placed in bins? Do you just throw it? It doesn't have to be in a bag before you put it in the bin. It could just be thrown in loosely into the bin.

Uh, trash will need to be in bags. Obviously, if there is pay as you throw program, it will have to be, but we don't um we try to stay away from the loose trash. Um, outside of pay as you throw programs and then no plastic bags and recycling. those bags get tangled in our equipment at the sorting facility.

So, you just soon have loose cans, bottles. Yep. Okay, that was one. Uh, a lot of concern about what happens. Uh, and I think it mostly involved who's going to pay for it, but do can't you the 64 gallons are fairly heavy. Do they blow around? Do they get thrown out in the middle of the road?

We do have challenges on windy days like yesterday. like yesterday. Those kind of days are a little rough as far as the cards go. If we do pull up to a car and it is knocked over because of the wind, the expectation the driver gets out, puts it right side up, collects it, and then puts it back where it was.

I think the greater issue is when it's heavy or excuse me, when it's empty, when it's does it blow around? I mean, that that would be the concern is even if you set it nicely yesterday, it was going to blow over. But the answer is if it does and it gets whacked by a semi it you call Cassella and it gets replaced and

we'll replace it. Whereas the difference now is we have that same problem anyways. Most people put out their bins but if it gets whacked and broken I have to buy myself a new bin whereas this would be on your your and my bins these are 28 lbs you were saying empty.

Yeah. Which I think mine empty is like seven pounds. So much more of a windier. Yeah. And this is another one I know the answer to, but you cannot use existing bins. So if somebody has a 64gallon correct tffy, they cannot use it.

It has to be a good cart. Okay. And that's because of the on that's used to pick it up. you have anything else that I was just going to walk through the mailer and the brochure, but essentially the high level easy version is the mailers are going to go out ahead of time and then the brochure is going to be attached to the carts upon delivery.

So those aren't being mailed out. Um we tie them in newspaper bags at the uh the handle of the cart. So just have residents keep an eye out for those because a lot of people don't notice they're there. Um but the alternative option is tucking them under the lid and people definitely don't see those. Sorry.

Uh, but that will have obviously the FAQs in it that will have what's recyclable, what's not, a copy of the calendar, more info about the app and dates and things like that. So, useful information. We'll update these FAQs as uh things evolve with the pay as you throw program as well, just so residents are informed about what's going on with that.

Perfect. Yeah, we're still figuring out details around pay as you throw. But John, one thing that you asked I think is important that I heard was even if the town were to get rid of pay as you throw, you still need to bag trash before it goes in there. It's not just a free-for-all. So

cool. Well, thank you so much for coming in. Um, so do we need to make a decision on start date while she's here or do we I think they've decided. Yeah, I think this this is a April 6 is the start date. Well, April 15th is the pick first day that you'll have auto automated pickup, whereas we'll get our um bins starting April 6th.

who have issues or concerns are to contact Cassella, not the town, you won't say not the town office, but contact Cassella if you have any issues or concerns. Yeah. So if you have any issues with your cart, if it doesn't get delivered, got, you know, uh tractor wasn't picked up, call us.

So generally, uh public comments limited to just the beginning of the meeting. Um but with this being an important topic, if the if the board's all right with taking a little bit of public comment now, the question I know, I wouldn't have known.

No, no, that's why. Yeah, I'm just clarifying for folks who are watching, but you just have we just need you to identify your name and the street you live on. Yep. The [clears throat] trash picked up on my side, Aman side. I got a good size wide driveway. What happens if I didn't have the wide side driveway? You get the two big bends and you get another two bends and you get a foot between each one.

Person access even getting out of his driveway. Um, it won't be in your driveway. Uh, so there's got to be some space between your house and the next house and the next house. So we try to tell residents who are bringing it over not to put it in your neighbor's driveway unless you have permission. Um, but the open space between driveways is where we typically have residents drag them over.

in. Um, we'll email you if we have any other questions and we appreciate all this information. Absolutely. Just let me know if anything else comes up. Absolutely. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. notes um that I'm going to pull together. And so, I think I mentioned it to the board. Um after getting all this information, plan to develop a uhformational video just of myself kind of highlighting some of what was talked about here and then the page you go so we can share it on to our town's website and Facebook page to kind of be a frequently asked question. So, we'll have it written, but also if I speak it um for those who don't mind listening to me, uh they can can watch the video and and see that too to make sure it's accessible for everybody. Um and if you're getting questions from constituents about this and you uh don't feel like you have all the answers, that's okay. Feel free to funnel them to

us as a as a board and we can [clears throat] make sure people get the right answers. So that was very informative. Uh that was now we can move to our uh department head reports and then we need both department head and here anyway for uh item C and D on this new business. So

um [clears throat] we'll start with the department head report and questions. So, that was something kind of new that we had added to have the department heads come in the last meeting of the month. Uh, they submitted their report online in advance for us to review. And if folks have questions um about the reports, this is a good time to ask them. I just want to start off by saying um Calvin, it's been a crazy winter and it is not lost on us how hard staff have worked especially when you all were down um to keep the roads plowed and it's a colossal task and I I can just say I appreciate it and with a newborn I'm up every couple hours anyways and it seems like every time I'm up there's a plow driving by and I'm like they got to feel terrible cuz I feel terrible right now being awake. So, I really appreciate uh and I think I can speak for the board in the town when we say we really appreciate all the hard work that has

gone into this winter keeping the roads plow roads plowed through all the challenges. So, and being done a couple of [clears throat] people, too. I just want to say that we've got a bunch of dedicated employees. Very lucky.

Yeah, we're very lucky. Not everybody can do it. No, I've had compliments on the roads from people in neighboring towns, so they're it's noticed. Yeah. We got a great crew, that's for sure. We know a lot of people were burning both ends of the candle to make it work, too. And um we we appreciate that every year. Some years just seems crazier than others. Um outside of the uh

questions about the frontend loader or questions about ambulance revenues, does anyone have questions for Chief or or Chief? You guys are doing a great job, too. Don't don't worry. Uh [laughter] if anyone has any questions for either one of them about their department head reports, now is a good time to ask. All right, so we'll just move right into um item C, authorization to purchase a front-end loader from public works department. Um, so Calvin, if you want to come on up here and uh we got your uh your bids in advance here. And I I do note, so the public works um capital improvement plan that we have on our on our desk right now shows everything 2027 to 2041. Uh but the uh the front end loader was uh up

was scheduled for 2026 purchase. So, um, that was the year that that was being planned on. So, I'll give it to you from here, though, Calvin. All right. So, we have given you a spreadsheet with the with the yellow highlighted preferred unit.

Mhm. I brought Ron in case you had any questions. I can operate them. He knows what's under the hood better than I do. He speaks louder than me. So, if you had any particular questions as to why we chose that unit, that's a good place to start. [laughter]

Yeah. Yeah. So, I'll just say right off the back of my mind, um, not that I'm saying we we got to go with the lowest number, but the the preferred one isn't the lowest number. So, if you could just let us know why, um, and give us your best professional judgment on that sort of stuff.

Okay. Well, we I'm wrong. The highways won't always work. So, we've tried all five uh five of them. Yeah, all of them loaders. Um, they all have their little tweaks, goods and bads. What stands out the most about the one we picked is, um, it's got a lot more safety features on it. It has what they call a backup detection radar, so if somebody back comes behind you, it'll be let you know. which has a radium camera, has uh significant torque over the rest of them, which allows you to, believe it or not, they manage to put horsepower and torque together and have a 20% less fuel eent. So, visibility wise, it's a lot safer. There's a lot of uh a lot of things you can adjust on it that'll make it a little user friendly for the operator. Not everybody operates the same. It's got a lot of safety features. Like I said, it's made different. This one's made a lot different for as far as wash out. You wash the loader itself. It's

got places that the water will run out, wash everything out of it. Um, they've really thought a lot of a lot of things on it. Um, some of the other ones have some things uh that are good, some of them not good. So, one's has a hydrostatic transmission, which is something you want to stay away from.

Mhm. Is that the Devilon? No, that's a caterpillar. It's a caterpillar. I don't know why they went to it, but my past experience where I came from, we had one and we had no no problems. Mhm. They [clears throat] get air in them and they won't won't turn right. They don't won't get any power out of them. There's a lot of issues with them. So, that's something you want to stay.

Uh I have a question. So maintenance, you know, I know heavy equipment, there's some right to repair issues with certain manufacturers that we options you have here. Does that take into consideration what you all can work on better? What

everything on this is ground level? Yeah. So there's no really crawling under it at all. Everything's ground level. You put the hood up and all your filters are there. Your oil filters, your air filters, your fuel filters, hydraulic filters. everything's right. Easy for the mechanic to access

and you don't have to call Volvo and ask for permission to fix your own equipment with this one. you? Volvo dealer close by Westbrook. Warren Avenue Westbrook. Y um and why do we need a new the current one the cab is rotted right off the machine and that's what he was saying is the new ones when you wash them that flushes the cab out. The one we got now it just washes everything up under the floor mat and down in the pedals and you can't get it out so without pulling the mats out and removing the floor every time. So, I have a pedal I meant to bring with me, the throttle pedal that if you could see it, the whole thing is gone underneath, and we replaced it once already, and now the floor that it actually attaches to is gone.

It's is starting to fall apart. So, I have a quote here to fix that. For $60,000 for cab and the other repairs that it needs, uh it's 60 grand from John Deu. uh 10,000 to fix the uh auxiliary engine parts, valve covers, uh replace radiator with new hardware, uh valve cover gaskets,

that's 10 grand. And then the cabin itself is uh 48 grand. Of course, that's what year is the current one that we have? It's a 2012. It's a gently used machine. Bought it when we started the department. Bought it used. It was gently used. And even in that state it's 45,000 trade in value.

Yeah. Okay. And then um do you know how many hours are on that one that we currently 44 44 45 I believe now it's about 45,000 4500 I mean people operate. No yeah 4500 we average 2 in 10 years I think. Okay. Cuz I was going to ask that cuz when I look at this warranty 5year 2,000 hours,

we would get the full 5 years most likely based off the current usage. And that's why he said that he we we looked at how many hours we put on a year and that's why he adjusted the uh I buy a warranty the warranty for what we're actually using.

Deb, you had some other questions. Sorry. How many different operators operate just to try to train everybody on it? Oh yeah. Y So this Volvo is 20% less fuel usage than the Caterpillar, the John Deere, and the is it Devolon? Is that how you say?

Yeah, it used to be Ducon. Okay. So decreased operating cost there. Um the safety features you mentioned, are they only on the Volvo compared to the other ones? They're off. Yeah. Okay. The other ones are the visibility. We found the

it wasn't there in the other machines as far as being able to per your vision and your vision and this lower glass see for because for me that's an important thing especially I know we have a small department in a perfect world you have a spotter when you're running equipment but

right more visible more visible safety that's I mean safety is a very big concern numerous times I've had residents come down into the salt yard backing out the salt jet and luckily we have you know we look look good you know Yeah,

we're looking a lot, but if somebody calls behind the machine, it's nice to have something to warn you. So, something there, you know, that's that's an option. And so, these are these the the safety features like the rear camera, um the detect and stuff like that, that's built into the quote that you have here. Okay.

And the rear radar on that is built into that price. Mhm. And everything's adjustable. I mean, some of the other machines have that, too, but like I don't know if you're familiar with machines, but they call it a rim pull. It's a breakout force. So if you're going into rock, you're obviously your machine's going to use more power going into rock, but you don't want the wheels to spin. So just a click of a button, you can make that machine do that without

spinning the wheels. Sand is different. Salt's different obviously the necessary evil. fund that you have right now? You got like 590,000 just for Calvin's. capital planning is it's really nice that when you're coming to make a request it's to expend from capital not to bond um which is huge.

I mean I had do I think 264,000 budgeted for that but this year I went with the source well I had them all quote source all quotes. So we got a fantastic government discount which brought that down uh dramatically. So that's how these prices came in so much lower than what the bids I was getting

because of why a government discount. Yeah. Source wells a government uh the lowest possible price you can get. The dealers couldn't even um they said they actually have to get reimbursed from the government for to buy to sell to us for what they sell for.

Wow. Um the Swedish That's great. That's that's really good. And you recognize that like the the Yeah, I talked to Auburn. Auburn uses it. Lewon uses it. So I uh called Auburn and got the number to this guy and he showed me the program and so

you just have to tell them you want the source price and they won't give it to you if you want to ask for it. That's great. Of course they're not going to give it to you unless you ask for it. Right. Mobile's a good piece of equipment. I mean, the companies they used to work with, they do I mean they're

it's got excellent resale value and um I mean when I look at these quotes I'm sure someone will say this is a crazy statement but you know realistically for a piece of equipment new the price range being 178 to 190 is not a huge difference. The only one that stands out as a a big difference is the used 2022 John Deere, which gives you a whopping 30-day warranty. Um, I would be remiss if I didn't ask, why aren't we looking at that as as the option?

Even the salesman said you might as well just keep what you got. Oh, okay. He said, you're buying somebody else's problems and and it's the same design. You're going to have the same problem with the salt being stuck in the pedals and down on the floor. So, [clears throat] do you think with this Volvo, not only does it sound like it's safer, but it sounds from a maintenance perspective, it sounds like I mean, that's something that you fully anticipate getting to 2041.

Yeah. With Okay. The pedals are designed on the floor so you can easily clean them. Mhm. Yeah. Like I say, the way they the way they designed on the floor itself, there's areas that you can actually flush out. There's holes there. You can pull the plugs out.

Okay. Little things like that that the little things add up to Yeah, they do. Let's say extending equipment life. For sure. They do. Yeah. Uh Caterpillar said they'll give you 47500 for for our trade in. Volvo won't match that for us.

This was their best deal. Okay. I drove a high bar and they all knew they had four other biders, so they knew this was this was it. So, yeah. Any other questions for either one of these folks? I really appreciate you coming in with all this information like

Yeah, I mean it's because I think John John's statement at the beginning is why like why why aren't you choosing the the cheap and it makes sense the safety the fuel I mean I don't think it's going to send fuel that's that's a big deal that's like they've taken taken the torque and the power and put them together. So without without good torque power is no good. So

yeah, cuz I don't I don't have a crystal ball, but I'm guessing fuel prices will increase over the next 15 years. So we use a bunch of it. Yeah. And then the uh safety really. I mean, I'm worried about you all out there.

I work around heavy equipment and it's, you know, life or death at times and safety is very very important um to me. So I know it is to the rest of the folks on the board as well. That's what sold me on the extra. Yeah. Right.

All right. Any other questions, John or Dem? I'm ready to make a motion. Anyone have a motion that they would like to make? I make a motion that we buy the Volvo U motor, the L70H to 2026 new. All right, John has made a motion. Do we have a second?

I'll second. Second from Josh. Um, any additional questions or discussion? My only question, what's the delivery date? He got here May 20 May. May 20 May of he's given us. Perfect. Which is awesome. Well, seeing no other discussion or questions, all in favor, any opposition? Seeing none,

perfect. I I just want to once again say first off, great work on finding a great deal on this. Really appreciate all the homework. We know you all are the subject matter experts on this, but we have a fiscal responsibility to ask these sorts of questions.

Questions up all the time. We we appreciate it. Um, and I also just want to highlight like this is just a great example once again of our capital planning working really well. I mean, Calvin, you were able to come in and find a loader under budget from what you had planned for. We're not talking about bonding. We have the flexibility to get this deal when we have the deal as a as an option. So this is really good work on you, Jerry, on this capital planning and the department heads on on keeping it all together. We really appreciate that. So

thank you. Can I just make a comment on that? The CIP plan is good. I noticed there's new stuff on there. Some bridges tonight. We'll get that in the budget thing, but I know not long ago we got a bond or something to replace the covert. Is that something you're looking at? We didn't get any grants. It was a grant. We got grants. Yeah, there you go. Yeah, we did get grants. I'm going to be pursuing them again this year and hope that I can get one. The last one I applied for, I didn't get

Well, we can talk about it and we'll talk about during the budget cycle. So, thank you for doing that one. Awesome. Thank you both. Thanks, guys. You're welcome. [clears throat] Go get some sleep before it snows again. By the night of snow. We'll get along.

department head theme. Wait, are we doing Oh, we're all good with you. Yeah. Thank you, gentlemen. Thank you. Speaking of department head theme, we'll bring uh chief up here to discuss involving ambulance revenues. Um just so little bit of background. Uh I'll introduce this uh you know a couple years ago chief brought to our attention our our rates that we're charging for um for the service that it's provided uh you know when people get a when people call the ambulance there's a a fee associated with that that their insurance pays. I'll let Chief go a little bit into details but um

this is one of those things that we should periodically assess to determine if we're charging the appropriate amount. They haven't been changed since 2023. It's now 2026. Um, just real quick, you know, notes on guidance for how we we set fees. Um, Maine Municipal

Association has some great guidelines that they recommend people take into consideration when they're setting fees. Not only does it take in you want to take into consideration the cost to your municipality, but also uh it is wise to look at surrounding municipalities um just to make sure you're you're um have a good frame of reference. And so Chief's here today because as we're getting into the budget season and we're talking about things that are going to cost us money, we want to evaluate um our revenue streams as well. And this is one of them. So, we asked Jerry to put it on the meeting and then uh chief has prepared for us kind of a comparison to local communities for a slew of services that the rescue uh um offers and uh we

brought him in here so he can make a presentation to us and we can ask him questions and and make some suggestions. So, hope I didn't steal too much of your thunder, chief. So before you start, Chief, could you uh tell us or tell me at least what a BLS, ALS,

and emergency and not what those stand? So left and right, what they're what he's looking at is, you know, of course this page. Um you can see the Durham rates. This is from our columnar billing. That's a contracted company. They're out of Massachusetts. Um so you can see $22 mileage. Uh BLS emergency,

so that's lights and sirens. BLS. So that would be an EMT basic. Uh some oxygen. Um if you use an emergency, so that could be what an EMT basic. And of course there's three levels. Basic advanced paramedic. That could be administering an EpiPen for analactic reaction. Just the basics that EMTs could do. Aspirin, that type of stuff. And

that's part of the charge. It is part of the charge. The charge category here. Yeah. And it's a list. It's almost like a a inventory checkbox. Um the next is non-emergence. So so uh lovingly lovingly uh um an Uber to the fires to to the hospital. So that could be just a mental health crisis. It could be uh non-descript pain. There there's a lot of reasons why you you take an ambulance to the hospital but non- emergency. So we pick them up, evaluate just driving to the and Durham does one of the five hospitals. So two in Lewon in the mid coast and two in uh Portland

EMT basic. Yes. Uh and the next two ALS1 ALS2. So that's advanced life support. And really it just trips what the paramedic does. So is that chest pain EKG? Is it chest pain EKG nitro? Is he hanging a bag? Uh you know drip. There's more to it. And really that's just delineated with our billing company and insurance. We as a department don't don't check that. It's literally reviewed. Uh the run sheet run sheets reviewed. The procedures that we do is reviewed. Uh everything is billable. And this is common. This isn't just Durham. This is just common across uh the states and bill.

Okay. Thank you. Um so you can see what we charge currently. Again, three years ago. Um, I highlighted for you the the same sheet, uh, what I'd be recommending. Um, except for the mileage, we would keep the mileage the same. Uh, the highlight says 21. Currently, that's 22 per mile. Uh, and that's called it ju just to know. We start at zero, we end at the hospital. The mileage is exact. And people will Google that. Um, so it is exact and we understand uh people or insurance carriers are paying per per mileage, half mileage. The rest is what you see. We'd like to go up to 850, 850, 1025,500. So that equates to a 21% increase, 21% increase, 19% increase, 42 for paramedic.

Um, is the gray what we're charging now and the yellow is what you want to go. Correct. With the exception of mileage, you want to keep mileage at 22. Yeah. So you said 21% increase for BLS emergency, 21% for non-emergency, 19% for ALS emergency. Y

and then ALS 2 emergency is 41 42.9. um I was also get that is what you're looking at. You can see Andrew Gogggin County, Cumberland County that CommStar, those are ComstStar um contracts. Can you explain what you mean by that?

So Comstar is our billing company that we contract with. So these are clients of CommStar, not others. There is a a billing company out of um but these are CommStar. That's how they know. This is sort of propri proprietary and and it is

um not made public right it's a contract type of thing um so that is that around us everybody just the average is well above what we're already charged you can see that at the bottom where it says average the average of their uh clients are well above anything we're we're close to.

But before we get too much further, because we have some new board members and we have a lot of folks paying attention at home. Um could you explain how the billing works um to because I know in the past we've talked about, you know, um a bill is submitted, insurance pays a proportion, and the rest goes to collection. Could you walk through that process so so folks know?

Sure. So, your your second that I just passed out. This one's uh I just received this today. The one I just passed out. Uh Jerry, I have an extra one if you want to just follow along. So, finalized, which was July of 24 to June of 25, that's the sheet we're looking at. Um those have all been settled. They've either gone to collections, they've been paid, or they've been written off. So that's 199 200

transports. Now that's all in. That's mutual aid. That's Durham. That's motor vehicle accidents. All of it. Transports to a hospital. Not a sign off, not a refusal of transport. These are definite transports to a hospital. Uh and again, all in for the Durham rescue. This has nothing to do if we went mutual aid with Auburn or Lisbon. This is the Durham Rescue Transport 200 in that year's time. You can read right across that

blue cross the charges we had 25 you know transports that had Blue Cross the total charges that we charge the available or allowable. So under their contract they only allow so much right. So, we can't just pay charge $100 for oxygen. They'll only allow like 70 as an example, right? You can't

um charge out of the market uh total collected. And so, that's a 94% collection rate. You can see for the Blue Cross as an example. And that's provided by our villain. You can see the next two, Medicaid, Medicare, and all other insurance 50% that it's 50 cents on the dollar. You can see what we charge. You can see what Medicaid Medicare allows, which is almost 50%. Um, and you can see what was collected. The reason for that is we're only allowed when you sign on to Medicare, Medicaid, you're only allowed to charge so much, which is pennies on the dollar, but they do pay that amount. That's why it's 198.

But by upping these rates, we're really only upping the total charges, not the total allowable, right? Correct. Because allowable is from them, right? But we are it's really only affecting on this sheet like the really the 100% self-pay uninsured.

No, because Blue Cross you can see the veterans self-pay uninsured. Um motor vehicle um there's main care there's other other avenues of insurance. Um so chief let me use an example here. So if you have a call and we bill $1,000.

Yes. The insurance company, depending on the insurance company, each one of those insurance company has a different amount that they're willing to pay for that service. Yes. Let's say it's $500. That remaining $500 then falls on the person um the who received the care to make up the difference

in most cases. Yeah. Because like so so that's where the difference between to total allowable and total collected. That's where that goes to a collection service. So, is down the line for us and we just signed on with collection service only like two years ago.

So, they'll get build just like I think we've all used insurance, right? It's just like going to a doctor's. There's co-pays, there's doctors, there's allowable what your insurance will pay and then you're on the hook for for others. Um, and then you you have to come up with it. If you have Veterans Administration, the VA, they'll pay 100%. Says so right here. They always have. They there's an allowable, they pay it 100%. Yes. On certain circumstances, you could be called to make up the difference.

Okay. Cuz like I'm just thinking I got transported by Turner after a car accident. Was your car wrecked and license? My uh insurance company paid and then Turner sent me a bill for the difference. Yeah. And in this case, I sent it to the person who hit me. So that goes to a different person.

That's why we have a a billing company that that takes a percent off the top. I don't get involved. The town doesn't get involved at all. There's computers back and forth about write offs. I've written off 100% of the criteria. There is no Durham resident that's ever been taken to collections.

Zero. We have a collections party that scares people that will set up a payment plan. It's not just garnishing your wages or, you know, putting a lean on your house. It's none of that. It's just trying to get paid services provided. This is not out of the realm. Durham is just supplementing the ambulance that we have out of the fire department. Supplemented. I believe we brought in um you can see out of that 127,000 and again that goes back to undesated funds to the town. I the fire department doesn't see it. It goes right into undesated and I have to fight to to use it again or you all or the voters can choose how they spend that money.

It it is not an enterprise account. It does not go back to the ambulance or the fire department. So, it only supplements the ambulance that the town provides. Just know I researched this right when before they bought the 2019 ambulance, they asked United Ambulance what it would cost private entity out of Lewon, how much to service Durham at that time, which was eight years ago, it was half a million dollars and they would collect all revenues.

Mhm. So the fire department budget all in with a volunteer fire department and running the ambulance is roughly 650 a year. I mean if it's going up year-over-year, but roughly an ambulance company would wipe out all that and you'd still have to pay for a fire department and whatever. And there's no guarantee you'd have an ambulance in town, a paramedic in town and anything.

Um I would imagine that total allowable that should increase annually too, right? Like I I I imagine insurance companies must acknowledge the cost of business increases. So year after year and again we are three years out of any increase uh according to the billing this year alone main um went up 2 and a half% allowable. So if you go back that could be up to uh 7 and a half% that we're not garnering. That's allowable. that when you say Maine, is that the Maine

state state of Maine? And they break that up with the southern Maine um and then north of Portland. Okay. Yeah. Cuz I know that when you first came to us a couple years ago, there were some examples of like we weren't even charging the allowable amount for certain act for certain care,

not even not even obtaining what what the allowables were, right? And and that's not about the 127,000 um off the back of of the pdiums really. Uh and then again to undesated that's all in. So that's ambulance maintenance, that's fuel, that's pay for those people. Um that's durable goods that year after year have gone up. The durable goods are just skyrocketing from medical grade equipment. Um, before this, we didn't have have to have an unfunded liability of having a medical director contract. Currently, that's $1,000 a year that was added that that was never garnished. And I just got a bill from the DEA. Every department federally uh in Maine is trying to work out an $888 bill for uh narcotic storage

and licensing. Uh so my point is year after year your Durham uh cost is is going up and [clears throat] we haven't raised our rates at all. Um and then just know that CommStar gave me the 50 highest clients that they have not just in Maine but overall we are 50% of of what others get. M.

So, we're at 970 for the highest rate currently. These guys are at 4,200. Wow. So, just know that we're not we're trying to stay average. Mhm. It's not gouging. It's not trying to pay extra. Again, you all the town recoups the funding when they can. Mhm.

Um, but these are these are like the highest mileage is $43 a mile. We're at 22. So, they're at almost all these are more than double what what we're charging. I know it's a lot of information. Yeah. Then this ex then this added revenue if these if we approve these changes that will go right into your operating budget.

No, no. All revenue is all treated as revenue. It just goes into revenue. So it doesn't get earmarked to say this goes to the fire department. It's just revenue. So correct. So yes, any added again goes back to the undesated for you to decide or the voters to decide how's that funding is used.

Also know uh tonight may not be the night but we were approached by town of Palo of possibly transporting half of Palo's medicals. So they do a 100 medical calls. We would split with North Yarmouth uh with a delineating line 5050. And they would also give us currently 15,000 extra just to sign the contract. Again, preliminary. I can't enter contracts. That's you all. So I would bring the contract from them to you. But having an increased set cost

would benefit the town of Durham. Now, if we ever brought in other clients, wait, so does North Hermouth currently service Tunnel? Nope. Freeport does. And from what I gather, um, they're in contract negotiations with Tonnell that aren't going well.

M um and that's something you all could decide with with an education and and a and a um package at at a different time. Yeah, I'd like to hear more about that. Sure. Interesting opportunity. So I highlighted for what what you all what I'd like to see again. It's been three years just as you all I mean the employee cost of healthcare went up 9% and that's part of transport healthcare. That was just this year. So year after year this stuff goes up so it gets compounded. I I think I'm just trying to play catchup and again doesn't go to the fire department.

Mhm. Um so a question that often gets asked is like what's this going to cost the average taxpayer? And so my understanding and please correct me if I'm wrong is when you say something like a 21% increase for BLS emergency.

Sure. That's not a 21% increase to every taxpayer in town of Durham for those services. That's meaning that whomever is calling to receive those services is now being charged 850 instead of 700. So if you're not calling the ambulance, you're not incurring that expense. If you are calling the ambulance, you're you're incurring that expense. So we are baseline funding a certain element of fire and rescue. Yep. Through general our taxes. Yes. And then if you use it, there's this additional charge.

This is literally your pay as you throw. Exactly. [clears throat] Pay as you drive. Yeah. We we did 200 transports as I gave you over that period. That's not all Durhamites. Mhm. Mutual aid. At that time, we were running 40 mutual aid. That's been cut in half. Um car accidents that that happen to be half nonduramites. So 4,200 people. We transported 200. I'm willing to bet 50 of those were were from not from Durham. So 150 people that used a specialized circ. Again, the fire department side is free. So uh we haven't even garnered uh charging for extrication, which we've done three or four of those. Uh we also do there's there's car accident cleanups, hazardous materials, all that you could be charging for. Haven't even broached the subject.

This isn't also Sorry, Josh. you have that that just surprised me that you don't charge for that. Sorry. Again, on you all entering the contract. We've talked about it before previous boards about revenue generating, but currently the fire department does not charge for a fire department calls. The motor vehicle accident, you can you can contract with sort of like its own comstar company that bills for automobile accidents. You do traffic control has this materials cleanup. Uh we had a tanker rollover from a heating oil recently. Uh that is all part of

Well, sometimes you get sir called traffic control for the police that need extra help traffic control. It doesn't get charged. Yeah. This also doesn't mean it's a 21% increase for like a lift assist or a cat stuck in a tree or

Thank you for that. So, nontransport, no charge, lift assist, medical evaluation. Um, sometimes we do wound care, sometimes we do mental health crisis. That's a no transport. You can sign off. I refuse transport. I refuse um treatment. Any of those are still non-chargeable. Just know that there are other departments that touch us that are charging up to $150 a lift assist. So if

they go to a nursing home, if you don't have home health care and you're aging in place and you fall a lot and they have to come and help you and evaluate, they're charging $150 and getting it through insurance. That is not Durham. We're still Durham friendly in my opinion. I've been across this country on an ambulance. I mean, it's still about the people of Durham. Durham's tax base provides a basic service here. One ambulance and we're still one guy, right? I mean, there's it just happens to be assistant chief Dimmick on duty tonight as the pdium. That's one guy. You've asked me to run a full-time ambulance with one guy. I I have a driver at home, but we'll still wait for them to get here and go on the call.

You set me up on the app. I can't remember what it's called. I am responding like three or four weeks ago and it still stretches me out when I wake up in the morning and see how many uh and and uh so I think all the compliments that you guys get welld deserved. Um,

I'm still still uh the the hazardous waste cleanup one really still strikes me as boy that's something that we should address because it just I don't know but dangerous. Um I think it's something that we we should address and and I think at some point we should ask for a list of things that you're not charging for that we might

I could bring a package to you. Yeah. I I I like that we're not charging for everything, but at the same time that's a big uh there there are certain things I think and so I but I would say that things that are covered by insurance like if I understood you said lift assist is covered by insurance

if if if we were to start charging some of that is it's not what I'm suggesting. Okay. So what what we're seeing in front of us here is these are charges that are are universally covered by insurance like insurance the basics of foot mileage uh care that type of stuff.

Yeah. Cuz what when I think of and this is a discussion for a different day but like you know I don't want people to be laying there on their kitchen floor and they don't want to call the fire department for lift assist cuz they're worried about the $150 charge. So, I like that we have and like I'm on I am responding. There is a lot of I've fallen and I can't get out calls almost weekly. Um like there's a lot of that, you know, and that and knowing that we have a great department that can go help with that is important or you know something something's hurt and I don't know how bad it is and they go and say, "Oh, it's a stub toe." Or, "Oh, no, you got to go to the hospital." Right? Um, but when I look at these, these are legit like you're getting hooked up to something and you're getting transported and your insurance company's going to incur a cost. I'm fully supportive of of making um periodic adjustments to these. And

with the information I have in front of we have in front of us right now, I think that this recommendation from uh our chief looks pretty reasonable on these numbers. Um, and so I don't have any other questions for you, but I'd like to button this up. So if anyone else has questions for Chief and then we can move forward

raise any of these, what is the percentage likelihood we'll actually get reimbursed for that because right now we've got did does an insurance company set a fee to say getting it transported to uh same areas of CMC? See, it's 100. It's 500 bucks. The fact that we increase our price is that likely to go up.

Yes. Okay. Collections will go up. Okay. Yes. Yeah. And that's where the two and a half allowable increase each year. We haven't been adjusting to to capture that. So there I my understanding is there's certainly things here that if we go up the insurance company's share is already going up. So

Durham is aging in place. I keep saying it, right? Because there's careful saying I just happen to be looking at you. Don't don't be offended. Um, and I appreciate that. I I deal with the seniors a lot. I can assure you because uh you've reached out before. No seniors being build and they're not going to collections. All right. I I will whisper in the ear some do have hardships. They they actually ask, "What's this going to cost me?" And I will tell them it's not your concern. we will collectively as a community take care of it. I I I don't tell them, you know, don't worry, but nothing uh goes across my desk that a duramite is is gone to collections and and and multiple phone calls ever in my control. I happen to be the only one cuz you have to sign on, you have to be vetted for for all these companies. Uh that doesn't happen in Dur. I cannot speak of any other agency, any other city or town. Um, but

they're not being hounded if they're a Durham resident. something else to say? No, go ahead. Um, if we were to adopt something like this tonight, would you be able to use these numbers to kind of extrapolate uh projected revenue for this year for the 2026 or 2027 budget or would that be

a little Yes, without using PO I I can get with our billing company who who works for us and see what those percentages towards 200 transport would increase. uh all in that they could help us and then give it to Jerry and also put in

take into consideration the fact that we're seeing an annual increase for the last four or five years straight. Yes. So I I have before I make a mo I I'd like to make a motion I have two questions. One is is this something we should be reviewing on a yearly basis around this time? Yes. before while you're putting together the budget and two is this the right amount of an increase should it be more I guess is so

can see on that bottom of that graph roughly average so if you chose to skip a year we would be okay but you know the BLS the two BLS's uh we would be above average. The ALS1, we would still be below their average and we would ALS2 would be right there. So, we're just average. This isn't exuberant. This isn't a money grab. This is literally catching up to what insurance does provide in the last three years that we haven't gone up.

But yes, yearly we should be reviewing it in the same as if you all have a flavor for billing of car wrecks and hazardous materials, that type of thing. Should we be reviewing it sooner than now to help with the budget process?

Now that we're on the fiscal year and not the calendar year, this time is perfect to to help with that. Um I believe other boards have talked about fees and fee schedules and and when that comes out, usually the beginning of the year, it it would help. So,

uh it is a good time. It just happens to be our three-year anniversary. Every January, I get an update from our billing company like, "Hey, it's time to review, you know, talk to the polish." So, I I'd make a motion that we um

increase the rates for the BLS emergency non-emergency, raise that to $850, the ALS1 to $1,25 and ALS2 to $1,500 and leave the mileage at $22. Josh has made a motion. Do we have a second? I'll second. We have a second from Deb. Uh any questions or discussion? Um and so just uh Jessica, because you're taking notes, just we'll have the record show that it's the highlighted recommendation made by the chief. Um is what what Josh's uh

motion just made. Except for the mileage. Except for the mileage. Yeah. Um mileage stays the same. Yeah. Uh I don't have any other questions or discussion. So, Rebecca's making some uh I'm just telling No, that's good. Um, all in favor? Any opposition? Seeing none, that passes unanimously. Thank you for the groundwork on this. Um,

very eager to hear about potential for panel and um it's been a couple really busy years in terms of figuring out our budget the last few years and capital and stuff like that. At a later date, I'd like to have you come in and if the board's good with this, maybe walk us through what Durham doesn't charge for, what we could charge for, what other municipalities charge for. I don't want us to say get into pinging residents, but when you've got nine folks out there helping with that hazardous waste cleanup from a truck that was passing through delivering something, maybe there's a discussion to be had there. Um, as we're starting to think about the the I I think that the spirit of the Durham Fire and Rescue is to provide services for Durham in the town of Durham and that there are certainly these extraneous things that are occurring that are pretty big lifts that uh we could maybe explore and I'd

like love your professional opinion on that at a later meeting. So, and when you do bring the pound thing, you know, I think we've talked about sort of how busy you are. I don't know if short staffed is the right word, but uh you know, I just seeing that app like it really eye opening to me.

Uh you know, 199 was just kind of a number, but then seeing it come across my phone. Uh I was looking this afternoon. I think there was there was one this afternoon I was looking and realized, oh wait, there wasn't one yesterday. I was kind of shocked. Um uh you know, there's a concern for me that, you know, you're I and I don't know, but it seems like you're you're not getting a lot of new recruits necessarily, uh and taking on more work for what you have. I just I'm I'm concerned that you're going to be overwhelmed. So I would just ask you to keep that in mind and you know well-being and mental physical health for you all is is important because you know as a community we need you here. It's important and you do a lot of work helping the other communities too. I just throw that out there.

Yeah. Again so I can't answer contracts. I'll bring the information and the request to you answer questions at that time. uh currently all preliminary amongst fire chiefs. Um I I think Paul's talked to his administrator and select board that type of stuff on next steps. So that that could be mixed soon.

Thank you, Chief. Uh you're w you're welcome. Uh and no, just just for the I know we're wrapping it up. Um we did get that sort of national volunteer fire council and state farm grant. So they are giving us five laptops if you read that. So up to $10,000. Some of them are reconditioned but you know uh we use three non-stop just here laptops running program software training. I am responding. Uh so to get five laptops on a grant is is

um good job successful and we look forward to it. Congratulations. Thank you. Some thanks Chief. Yeah. Yeah. I'll get out of your way. No, you're all good. Go to my corner. All righty. Um, we need to move into the board of assessors to discuss a tax abatement. Do I have a motion to move into the board of assessors?

All right. I'm going to give that one to Josh. Do I have a second? Second. Oh, Rebecca still moving on. All right. Any questions or discussion? Seeing none. All in favor? Any opposition? Passes unanimously. We are in the board of assessments. Um, looks like somebody

demolished their house and didn't get a permit for it and so no one knew. So when they received their tax bill, they said that they actually don't have a house anymore. Um, and so they need to be uh the property needs to be abated by the amount of $5,46347.

abatement? I'll make a motion to approve. There's no questions. Uh John has made a motion. Do we have a second? I'll second. Second from Josh. Uh any questions on the motion? come out of this year's budget? I got Oh, the same 18 months. So, never mind. I just

the overlay is the over. Yeah. So 18 months it does put us in the hole for abatements though, right? you're doing the budget is not Yeah, we still do it, but it it is Well, what do you mean put in the hole? At the same time, we pick up a lot of valuation every year, too. So we end up

it's it just you when [clears throat] you peck your mill rate there's a there's an overlay with Yeah. And we're kind of going over the overlay through throughments because those overlays take care of the abatements. I mean there's been so many and I mean this this is a pretty good one here. That's what the abatement line is always.

Yeah. cuz usually it's a few hundred bucks here and there because it's, you know, coming out of tree growth and something like that or a half acre was miscalculated or whatever. This is this is a substantial Yeah. It's a full home.

Had she gotten the permit, I was just then things would have went the way they should have. Yeah. And so, uh, yeah, because she wouldn't have calculated the taxes like the home was there, like she would have got the she [snorts] is is there a fee for not requiring the permit?

So, if they build a new home, they're going to pay the fee then, but there's Well, there is a demolition permit. And so, my understanding was that if someone doesn't pay for a permit and then that's found, they have to pay double,

right? But but how do you police that? So you send them a double bill, they don't they don't pay it. But if they want to build another house on that property to get the permit, they're going to have to pay that demolation bill that double or whatever.

And just I just for a point of information, you could give them that, but they could sit on that. I mean, yeah. And also no police is going to come up and say, "Oh, I didn't pay your abatement." But also pay your demolition.

Real quick, the the demolition permit is $50. So it's not we're talking about recouping $100. I just wanted to make that clear. And that'll get tacked on to any buildings from that. So, if they don't pay it, they won't get that building.

But there's not like we can issue a a a fee and get back that money. Yeah. Right. I was just going to ask. Did you send the $100 bill or No. Does she know that when if she was to build? She does know that. Okay. They've been talked to about it.

Yeah. It's just a better way. I mean, even Donna said the best way to handle it is when they want to build a permit to rebuild, you just Yeah. I just But I think you just have to tell them that's that's from them. But yeah,

and to your to your point, John, this is something we should think about when we set our next overlay as I know we always want to be like razor tight with that mill rate. Um, but we also don't want to underestimate, you know, um,

I think this is the first time we've gotten close to the budget number in my budget experience, right? So remember you you you you're all given three different Mhm. and so each of those the overlay is automatically calculated each one of those mill rates.

Right. So Oh yeah. No, I understand that. I'm saying but we are always really trying to keep it as close as possible. Um and this is just something for us to think about when we're setting the next one. Um you know alls I'm saying is the overlay amount isn't arbitrarily right

set. It's based on Yeah. Yeah. we have always been picking the middle one or or on the low end. Um um and so I'm just saying that this is some information to keep in mind. I mean like we have here an abatement of $5,463 I think is more than the last like eight I've seen combined. You know, it's just a big one. So, um but we do have a motion in a second to uh accept the property abatement and we just had a a good discussion on it. Uh, seeing no additional discussion or questions, all in favor? Any opposition? Seeing none, that passes unanimously. I now entertain a mo motion to exit the board of assessors and go back into the select board meeting.

So moved from John. Do I have a second? I'll second. Back on. Uh, any questions, comments? All in favor? Any opposition? Seeing none. All right. Jerry, town manager report. I actually have nothing. All right, perfect. Um, board member report. I'm going to start off a couple things. Um, Thursday is an annual one of the annual GP COG meetings um that I attend. Uh Josh and I get invited to. Josh has a scheduling conflict, so he's not going to be able to attend. And so I invited Rebecca to attend with me. Uh Deb attended last year. Nothing issue, John. I started with whoever served the longest and and came down. But I also know that we have the um the open open space uh and so I'm happy that the two of you are are still going to be able to make it to that. Uh a lot of the the the topics on the agenda and I also felt really suited well to you Rebecca is it's a lot about communication and particularly about how towns manage

their social media and social media's uh accounts that are about the town. So pretty timely um discussion for us. So, uh, we're gonna divide and conquer Thursday with some of us being there and some of us, um, being at the open space, um, uh, meeting. Uh, the other thing I wanted to say is, um, we received a ton of emails about, uh, pay as you throw. Really appreciate community feedback. Um, I we have a policy of respond of the chair responding to recognize that everyone's email has been received and considered. Uh, I haven't sent those emails out yet because I want to get some information tonight from from Cassella uh to help inform some of that. I'll be sending those responses out uh tomorrow and Thursday uh just so you all know generally don't get into any back and forth policy discussion, more of a facts and figures type type thing and thanking people for their feedback. Uh, another thing I wanted to say is so

we discussed the um we've made an adjustment to ambulance and rescue fees to tonight. One thing uh and Jerry I wanted to put this bring this up to you all put this on on on a future agenda um shortly is we do have the authority to periodically review all other permits and fees. It's I think the last time we did that was 2024. Um, and so as we're coming into a budget season, it might be worth us um having the code enforcement officer or Jerry pull together the material. We need to make sure to see where our our building fees and permits and stuff like that are sitting uh uh in relation to the surrounding community and the cost of doing business. Those fees, some of them are designed to kind of recoup some of the costs of the planner and some of the costs of the code enforcement officer. the cost of planner and code enforcement officer regardless of salary has increased just because of the cost of benefits

increasing and I think it'd be worth us having a peek at that. Um we made the big adjustment two years ago so this now would probably be tweaking minor adjustments but I think it's timely with with the budget if we're looking at expenses we should also be looking at revenues.

Well one thing I think we missed uh changes to to planning stuff. So, if somebody comes in and wants to change their site plan or their uh plat or whatever, we don't charge them for that. And sometimes that's as significant

significant as as the original one. So, we may want to add those. And well, I'm going to lean on your experience, John, having been on the planning board um when we start having those sorts of discussions to bring some recommendations if you don't mind.

I don't mind. um because these are fees that are paid by people who are doing something that's above and beyond the normal scope of expenses. And when we look at places where we can generate some revenue, those are those are good places to look. And generally, we've been below the median expense for the surrounding communities for things like developments and things of that nature. The other thing is I want to put on discussion for next meeting. um [clears throat] we received someone reached out and inquired about uh joining the budget committee when there's a vacancy and uh [clears throat] reached out to town legal council because there's a little bit of there's a little bit of misunderstanding as to whether we as the select board can appoint someone to a elected board or not. Um I know past select boards have appointed people um but they I don't believe that they consulted with legal counsel at that point with our budget

committee not having any local ordinance and the our local ordinance not explicitly giving us authority to appoint vacancies to elected roles like the budget committee. We the lawyer looked at 30A. 30A does give in the state level says that outside of vacancies to select board and school board which the select board is required to take action on other other boards and committees the select board may take action on. And so not for discussion tonight but I just want to play in the place in everyone's head for us to discuss next meeting. We need to decide how we want to to address vacancies right now on the budget committee. Um with that being an option is we could either let it lie or um uh solicit uh

people to join that committee. Um there's just some optics to be thought about and discussed because if that committee is kind of s trying to serve as a check and balance to us, there's some optics around us appointing and things like that. Um but just something that we should we should talk about next meeting. So, that's going to be something I just want to have on folks minds and let you all know that we do we can choose to fill it or not according to what our lawyer has has responded to. So, kind of a wordy board member report for me, but I just wanted to cover those things. Um, but yeah, Josh,

you have anything? Yeah, sorry. I'm that was that's an interesting question. uh was I saw your I saw the wheel spinning at that point like oh that's a good yeah it's that's uh um the the pay as you throw I've wanted to raise there's been a lot of questions and I've had a lot of discussions with people and is that something and and this is I'll phrase it as a question that can be thought about and

uh you know is that something that we should to do a workshop on or a public meeting on so we can get input and just, you know, if if people show up in the the droves that they've been emailing and to us about it could be it's it's a conversation, but I don't think it's simple conversation

because I think every there's a pro and con to everything for the town, the tax burden and all that. So, I wanted to throw that out there. Uh, you know, how to address that. I think that's something that may be more appropriate.

Mhm. But um that's something we need to get to pretty quickly, right? Yeah. Because at this point, we've adopted, we voted for pay as you throw and we've set the fee. But questions I'm seeing are like, do I get any bags up front and those sorts of things. I've crunched a bunch of numbers on that. Any bag up front is is loss revenue on the back end, which needs to be made up by raising appropriating more. So any bag you get up front is just a bag that you're charged through for your taxes. And so there's some discussions to be had there. Obviously not on the fly right now, but I think we should probably do that very very soon.

Yeah. And and I just thought that that could be a lengthy conversation and I don't you know it's it's like the town meeting. We don't get a large turnout and so will we get a large turnout for that? Uh but uh to do it at a at a meeting, you know, I feel like the next meetings are all going to be pretty full. So

real quick, are you saying maybe have that as like when we've in the past done like anformational workshop at like the Eureka Center where it's just talking about this and people can come in. Okay. So I don't know but uh uh you know I

think having it as a public you know people I was expecting people to come in for public comment tonight. Mhm. I was a little surprised. Um but also also a little happy because uh I think it's hard to listen and not sort of ask questions and sort of talk about, you know, and that's uh that's been, you know, uh I was at my daughter had a basketball scrimmage tonight and it was a topic that someone brought up. So we had a 15minute conversation about the pros and cons and

this and that and it kind of said, you know, what do you do? I don't know. That's why that's why you're on this life more than I'm not. It's kind sort of how it how it kind of it went and uh and so I don't know how to have that conversation with some back and forth I think is necessary in that conversation. So does that mean changing the rules to to a meeting for a little bit to have that back and forth? What? But anyway,

can I talk to that? Is that okay? So Di um so could we set I mean next meeting we do have the superintendent coming but would it be possible to in a in our setting have that Q&A rather than set aside a different time? So yeah so the answer to short answer is yes. So right now we have public comment at the beginning. We we can at any point in time and we talked about this when we just kind of had discussions a couple years ago about guiding principles for meeting. We can at any point in time say this is a section of the meeting we would like to open up to hear more from the public. We could we could vote on that and so it could be more of a discussion at that point or something facilitated. Um we could do that at a meeting. Yes.

I I just think it's if it's something we're going to do at a meeting, we should give some notice. Yeah. And so that's why I thought having some, you know, and I don't like the idea of doing it, you know, the earliest that we do it that way would be like May, March 20th, which is kind of pushing it. Uh, but to Rebecca's point, if we're going to have the if the superintendent has to come in as well, if we're going to have someone there, and I have to confirm that with him that we we're Yes. But, um, if we're going to have them come in to be made available to answer questions from us or from the public, you know, that's killing two birds with one stone. If people are

if you want to get people to show up to town, talk about trash and the school, right, at the same time. I mean, he does in his email. He did recognize that. Yeah. So, I'm just I just wanted to throw that out there. I I think it's a good idea. I I think it's just it's a discussion because

I go 15 different ways and then I have a discussion and it's like well and to your point like I someone asked me is there ever opportunity for us to comment on these things and I said yeah there's opportunity every single meeting and you and the agendas are always available but if I understand that people are busy too um and I so I said you know we can announce on social media or whatever are ahead of the meeting that we talk as pay as you go to encourage people like we encourage people tonight. So it's not like a oh I checked the agenda Tuesday afternoon and saw that that's when they're talking about pay as you go because I want people to know we truly need feedback and we can give answer questions and there's information that people probably haven't maybe pieced together about the revenue side of things and those sorts of things that we can at least present and say here are the facts and figures

to your questions. there isn't any smok and mirrors or you know hidden discussions going on around this. I think that's a really good point because cuz you know I talked to Jerry today about my concerns and my sort of thoughts and and he said that you know he had been discussing other things that I hadn't even really I hadn't hadn't thought of uh that were that you know kind of jumped out to me as holy cow how did you not even think of that but it was uh so I think a back and forth you know I typ which is unlike what we typically do but I think that's that's important on that subject I think because uh but anyway Anyway,

no, it's a big it's a big topic. Yeah. What else do we have scheduled for next meeting for the 10th? So, first read of the budget. So, if you invite the superintendent, you'll have that and then you'll have the pay issue discussion. Um,

but the thing about the first read of the budget is what I would encourage is I don't want us to dive into the budget. it is really, you know, here's the budget, here's the numbers, go home and think about this. We need time to digest. So, I don't see I see that this is that as the last meeting we have before we're really cranking back and forth on budget stuff. And so, that's really the only opportunity I see to have these two things, even if it means we we plan for a little bit longer on that day because this is a really important topic. I mean,

and I'm going way off the reservation, but when I think of the first read of the budget, that's a Jerry saying, here are the bottom line numbers and, you know, here are things that might stand out, but not really questions from us or

but give it giving it to us so we can understand how he's put it together and presented in my Yeah. Okay. That's how that's how I feel about the first read. That makes that makes a lot of sense to me. Yeah. because we the following two meetings are diving in on the details. And I I think that sometimes if we try to dive in and I'm very guilty of trying to dive in on something the second it's handed to me and 99% of the time I think to myself, man, I probably could have shushed up and thought about that a little bit more. And so I'd really like that first read to just be here here's the facts and figures to provide what you needed last year, this year. Here's what it costs. Go home and think about it, then come back to us. So,

should we set a date that we want to make a decision on pay as you throw or you know I mean when I said I know we've decided to do it. Yeah. Are we going to give a month's worth? No. No freebies. I mean do we I think we need to do that soon because there is a fiscal impact. So, like real quick, just off the top, if we were to give out 26 bags per household, around 1,600 households at 100 at $180 a bag, that's about $75,000 worth of revenue. And so, if we give that out and we were projecting about $125,000 worth of revenue from bag sales, if we're giving away $75,000 worth of revenue, that just gets made up in in the budget. And that could be the answer we want to do. would say, "Well, just have to raise and appropriate more." Cuz right now, I think folks think of tags that they're getting as free.

They're not free. They're just paid for in your taxes. Um, and so that's what but I think that that has a fiscal impact on the budget to your point because if we say, "Yeah, sure. Give away free bags." the re we need to tell Jerry what to set that re revenue line at and then figure out where we want to make up the difference, you know, and so that needs to happen earlier in the process than than sooner. So I think that if we were to have that discussion next meeting, get the information and then turn around the very next select board meeting and that's when we're going to be getting into the facts and figures and kind of making some policy adjustments to the budget, that's where we could set that line. So does that work for folks? Yeah, I mean my my thought would be that you know it's on the agenda for the next meeting. So we can either make a decision at the next meeting or we can say let's do it.

If people are willing to come prepared, hear that feedback and make the decision. I think we should aim to make a decision on March 10th. I think no 10. I think we're running out of time. Exactly. you know, I mean, but one time we talked about the bin lifting

co coinciding with the new bags. We may not be able to do that now, but the you know, we're going to have to come up with a temporary solution out of out of the bins and all that other stuff. So, I I'm kind of ready, you know,

I mean, I I I will be ready March 10th to make to make that decision, but I want to make sure other people feel comfortable. We just have to. And I think that that's a good thing too to say that like March 10th is speak now forever hold your peace on feedback because we're gonna hear your feedback and we're gonna make a decision that night. Um and it is what it is. Like that's our it's a tough job we have to make these decisions when there's a fiscal note involved. But we got to kicking the can down the road doesn't make it any easier. So

I would just say I know you've been posting you posted about tonight's meeting. Um so Mhm. I'm trying to figure I don't I don't want to tell you. No, I'm gonna follow up. I'm gonna post [laughter] figure out how how to word that

on Facebook and do it. No, I've recognized and and uh Deb did a really great job of of encouraging me here too about the importance for really super super transparent and frequent communication around this. Um and if we don't talk about it as a select board, other people will talk about it. And it's important that we're getting the accurate information out. And what kind of caused me to want to reach out and post uh into local forums this week was because there was a lot of discussion that was happening that there was some gaps in information and some assumptions that were being made incorrectly that we wanted to make sure the right information is getting out. You can disagree with the the direction, you can not like it, but we want to make sure that the facts and the figures are out there. And so I'll be I I'll be doing a followup this week on everything we talked about tonight and alerting people

of of the March 10th pay as you throw um as well. So that's part of the reason why I held off on those emails that um we that we've received over the last few days. So I'm begrudgingly using social media. me. No, I didn't. I didn't even look at it. No, you might should start. I am the select board.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's it's funny because I don't usually get on and I just happen to get on. I saw that. Uh today is Joe Joe Burl. Yes. Uh so um it must be I'm wearing camouflage in the photo so you probably can't see it.

That's what it's uh Well, that was that was a good report, Josh. You made me think of another thing and I just forgot. Uh well anyway I I also uh wanted to apologize for my behavior at the last meeting. It wasn't appropriate. I think it brought up some good discussion in in the background. Uh but it was appropriate. So I I did want to apologize. I should have led with that but there's other stuff.

So really appreciate that. And Josh and I had a great talk last week too. So [snorts] and I apologize for cutting you off in that in that moment. So cool. Alrighty. Deb, do you have anything to add? Um, back on the page you throw, I think we need to see math on paper when we have the next discussion like if everyone gets three bags, it's going to cost the town 28 cents per bag, but this much in revenue. We really need to see the math and get that in front of people in the agenda package. Um, and I would have liked had we planned it a little bit better. Just like we got together on the police coverage and we had that big meeting in the cafeteria and we had a paper that said, "Here's the current state. Here's what we're talking about." People got up to a microphone and spoke. I mean, people are very passionate about this topic on the trash business. Um, and I

hope just having the next meeting uh a dedicated period in the next meeting does it. It probably would have been better if we would have had a specific meeting like we did on the police coverage business. I know it's not as critical, but you know what it's saying. Um

it to me it's like it's everywhere. And it's so complicated. I I thought it was I thought after like the last meeting I thought it was such a simple it's I've even in my mind gone back to because I've talked to somebody who lived in Sco. They don't have bags. So that tells me they just spread everything evenly. I got some feedback some re of residents in my community in my neighborhood that thought I look at trash pickup like we look at road maintenance and everything it should just be part of the overall you know strategy meaning don't burden us with bags basically

but uh anyway so I'm looking forward to the discussion and um hopefully residents will to to your point there just so I understand because Jerry and I will frame frame this up in in the agenda. What it sounds like to me is we want to give folks an opportunity to give public feedback, listen to our discussion, and then give public feedback on what they've heard. Much like we we gave a little bit of space for the gentleman tonight who gave a little bit of public feedback because like he said, he's like, I don't know what I want to comment till after I hear. So, right, we could have it built into the agenda, you know, public feedback. I kind of think John when you had planning board meetings where it's like all right you have feedback at the beginning of the meeting and then you have feedback on this this topic

public hearing sort of like a public information meeting. Yeah. And so I if that's not true probably caring but right so I want to give availability at the beginning so people can give us feedback if they want to speak before but also let folks know we're going to have a discussion about bags

and then we want to give give the opportunity to the community to come up and we can same thing you have three minutes to speak and make your point and there can be some back and forth should the should the board choose to and we can use that we can use that sparingly then we will make a decision but I'll frame it out in the draft um Thursday next or the Thursday before the meeting with Jerry. So, but for purposes of letting people know, there will be an opportunity to come give feedback after you've heard the facts and figures cuz just like what you were saying right there,

right, that is an option, not pay as you throw, but then there's also the component that we've talked about pay as you throw generally leads to a 30% decrease in tonnage and we can look at the tonnage numbers and then some people might say, oh,

right, it's really laying out the whole situation. I will go I've I can I have thought about this ad nauseium for 2 weeks while feeding a child at 2:00 in the morning. So, um I have a lot of thoughts and I can put those numbers on paper and we we can also uh just be so open as to

say we're going to reverse course and not do the pay as you throw. We could, right? I mean, not I'm not advocating for that, but I I don't want people to just say, "Yeah, give us the free bags." But, you know, I I I I I want I I'm

I think where are we at with the company? Bags. Yeah. I guess that's So, the attorney is looking at the contract right now. Okay. So, they terminate it altogether. We haven't signed it yet. So, but we wouldn't sign it before the next meeting anyway, right? So, I mean, I I just

I I feel like I my head keeps spinning and uh so I just, you know, don't tell me why just do this. I I want to know. Joe, you do the numbers. No, you're you're good. Um sorry. Um, when you do the numbers, can you also add in about us paying with tonnage and how that overall affects the

tax burden? Yeah, I know. So, I know this is tonnage is [laughter] we don't talk about it now. Yeah, but but what I will say it's not on the agenda. Yeah, we I can prepare some information for ahead of the next meeting that includes those

when you're Yeah. to Deb's point that the number is in there. Sorry. No, I just got to the numbers that are going to be provided are going to be all based on assumptions because you don't know what the I know. But I'm just saying and I think that we can preface that. But but like to Deb's point, numbers

Yeah. numbers help put things into perspective completely. So I think it's very necessary to have Oh, sorry. We've all I need a pass. John, did you have anything? I do actually. Uh, a couple of quick thing. Well, if they're quick, but uh to be talked about in the future is a resident sent us a uh email, but I've also been thinking the same thing about how do we get people to more people involved in in the town, the budget decisions. And so that individual uh had

a good idea that I'm going to copy, but um splitting the town meeting and the vote on things like budget and land use and the devil's in the detail on that. I understand it, but um you know, we anyway, we talk I just like to get that on an agenda in the not too distant future because I think our the town's future is being decided by 180 people and we can do better.

Yeah. real quick to that. So Jerry and I talked about that today. The ship has sailed on that for 2026. Yes. But we can start talking about that for 2027 because there are some limitations because now that nomination papers are available for an office uh both the budget committee and the select board. There's some that has kind of like set in motion certain facets. But I 100%

this is a recurring theme that has been popping up and talked about more and more over the last handful of years. So especially as the participation rates in some cases are barely a hundred people. That's something Jerry and I also talked about that and is that something that has to be decided at the town meeting or is that something we can decide? I guess is we can decide.

Yeah, we can. So the we the select board can decide that and I won't get too far into it right now like but that's one of those things that like it's tricky because for everyone who wants it there could be people who don't want it and then they can really accuse the select board of exercising a lot of authority there too. Um and so some of the voices that are are now speaking out in favor of it have not always been in favor of it. So, it seems that there may be some sort of some some shift. And so, at minimum, we could use the the municipal election or this upcoming meeting to do some sort of a straw poll. Now, the irony of doing a straw poll at the town meeting as to whether we should have a town meeting isn't lost upon me. Um, so maybe we could look at for the municipal or the primary election or something like that. Um, but yeah, very good point, John. Uh my other one is um

you're looking at the um I don't know if the budget numbers but the the financials that we got from Jerry this afternoon. I had concern about a couple of the lines uh particularly on mostly actually on on revenue. Uh and we seem to be falling way short on some of our revenue numbers. Um and this is a future discussion to go over them in more detail and not hurry through it tonight. You know, some of the numbers are it look and I realize some of these are still ongoing, but it looks like we may be 400,000 short in motor vehicle uh state revenue sharing, 220,000 homestead. These are all shortages 112,000. So, there seems to [snorts] me that we're not bringing in money the way we thought we were, which has a budget impact and it's something we need to just review with some time, not not rushing through at the last 15 minutes.

Yeah. No, we won't cover that now. And then so I would just like to see that on the um amend the U agenda because it is a significant amount of money on the on the revenue side. Or so it seems. I may be wrong and before the next meeting somebody can show me where my math is wrong.

Yeah, we can uh I'll talk with Jerry and Mark. We can put that in a future. Yeah. And that is it. Perfect. Uh can I back? Um, what about the mail that we have seen concerns about the town meeting the same day as the Freeport graduation and we there was some discussion I think you well

there would have to be a special town there's a special meeting to have that changed yeah but we want to do anything or put on agenda or something what I do I've been thinking about this a lot and so currently our municipal form of government puts a lot of authority into the legislative body of the town voters via town meeting.

And for every discussion that's being brought up right now amongst um vocal group of people um was discussed at the town meeting and the town still decided to make that decision knowing that there was a risk of the the the school board or the graduation being the same weekend. And so I I don't want to fall into the case of like recency bias or or

um listening to the loud loudest voices or the most current voices to override a overwhelming majority that passed at town meeting. Um, so and then the other thing I think about that is if we were to have a special town meeting those get so in the past when we've had those those have been we usually get accused of abusing power of of trying to push something with a low amount of voters and we might get 40 people who show up. So, um I I think that this personally this is to me it's just a case of like the town voters made a decision and they set the meeting and it is what it is. Um I understand some of the people who are vocalizing frustration right now, vocalize that at the town meeting and the town voters still decided to go a certain way. So, I don't want to override the town voters um or or appear that we're trying to override the town voters who didn't make time to attend the town meeting and have that sort of

vote. So that's that's where I kind of fall on it personally. Um but if anyone has other additional thoughts or anything, shoot me an email or have a discussion. We can talk. I don't disagree. We can address the upcoming like the 2027 town meeting. Yeah. This year. So I mean I I think that's a good point. We did it was a topic of discussion.

Yeah. And the voters voted for it and we should respect that. Mhm. Perfect. All righty. Um, do I have a motion to approve the consent agenda? So move. John, do I have a second? I'll second. Rebecca, Deb, no. Sorry, I'm not sleeping much right now. Uh, any questions or discussion? All in favor? Any opposition? Seeing none, pass unanimously. Um, we do need an executive session tonight for personnel. Um, I can't remember what that number is. It does not say it says uh it's not on the it's not the number isn't written on the agenda. No,

we got it. Um but either way, I would like to preemptively 4056A. Yep. Um personnel. Uh I would like to preemptively extend our meeting till 9:15. Not that I think we will need it, but I don't want to have to end executive session, come out, extend the meeting, go back into executive session. Do you want to just say 9:30 to be?

Sure. Um, so I would like to make a motion myself to uh extend the meeting until up to 9:30. Do I have a second? I'll second. Any questions or discussion? Again, I don't anticipate we need that. I just for timekeeping or for record keeping. So, um, all in favor? Any opposition? Seeing none. All right. Okay. I will now take a motion to move into executive session pursuant to 4056A uh personnel matter.

So move. That was moved by Josh. Do I have a second? I'll second. All right. From Rebecca for real this time. Uh any discussions or questions? Oh, I was just going to say, should we have done the upcoming meetings now? Oh, yeah. I'll but yeah,

sorry. I should Sorry, Josh. I'll let you withdraw your motion. uh upcoming meetings, open space planning community event February 26 here at the Eureka Center. Um very excited to see the results of that. That's going to or sorry here over at the Eureka Center, not here at 6:30. Um really excited to see that. I know a couple board members will be in attendance. Um I will not due to a commitment with GP COG, but we'll definitely follow up. Ad committee meeting is March 4th at the Eureka Center at 6. Planning board meeting March 4th at the fire station at 6:30. solid waste committee meeting March 9th at the Eureka Center at 6:30. Select board meeting March 10th uh at 6:30 and that's also when we're going to have a open discussion on the um pay as you throw system

and a meeting with and the meeting with the uh superintendent and then a public hearing on proposed land use ordinance changes on March 18th, 2026 at 6:30 uh at the fire station. I will now entertain a motion to enter executive session pursuant to 4056A personnel matter.

Before we do, can we take I know it's a pain in the butt. Can we tape the conservation commission the open space thing? I can. I mean, you know, I know it's a pain in the butt, but the way we did the u that one select board meeting.

Oh, the open space meeting. The open space meeting. Yeah, they are talking about reporting it. Oh, they are. Yeah. Yep. Okay. That's super. We should support that if there's opportunity to do so. I think it if people need to hear it and don't want to come out.

Okay. So now for real this time I will entertain a motion to enter executive session pursuant to 40568 personnel matter. So moved. Josh, Rebecca, any questions? All right. Uh all in favor any opposition? Seeing none. All right.

I'm just going to make sure we had to turn off. Yeah. at 6:46. Sorry, 6:46 p.m. I gave you the nice chair and I was really polite. I really appreciate that. That was only because I did my exercises today.