TranscriptSelect Board Meeting ~ June 14, 2022

we're ready devin the fire chief's truck all right before anybody starts fighting i will call this meeting to order uh uh on what date are we we are on june 14th 2022 i'm still on vacation mode all right stand for the pledge of allegiance please i pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of america and to the republic for which it stands one nation under god indivisible with liberty and justice for all okay do we have any uh amendments to the agenda

at my email i did not see the minutes from the may 24th meeting which would have been the last one we had did you guys i don't remember i'm not sure i was right okay so i'm going to take that off the consent agenda we'll just get them next time okay any anything else

um looks like the fire chief is listed first tonight same seats go yeah right uh the chair just sent out an email about the trek across maine those riders will be in town this friday right after the morning commute my numbers were 800 to 1000 your numbers were possibly two thousand yeah that's probably the old days of the track pre-covered but yeah somebody a lot somewhere in there um that'll be between the fire station and the eureka uh everything was uh up to a year ago signed and sort of memorable understanding of use of the town land put on extra staff they should be all-inclusive they have emts that ride with them their own porta parties their own mechanics their own rest area their own food their own trash disposal shouldn't be a burden to the town but we're prepared for it all and i will put a posting probably tomorrow or thursday afternoon for the fire department tag it's all things durham as a reminder that those

bikes will be in town so we should be set with that our thursday night training coming up is ems training we will be doing active shooter hostile event training uh do the recent activities in the country uh part of that is also mass casualty so triage treatment transport that type of thing if we get ems credits the following thursday fire training uh we'll be doing a walk-through of the school already been in contact with the principal we had a fire alarm there recently so we need to familiarize the rest of the department with some some nuances of that building um is there a regional uh like effort like that like for instance is there a coordination with the androscoggin county sheriff you know and you if something like that should happen that's a great question so there's actually a fire department nfpa standard on it 3 000 best practices across the country and it is external stakeholders it's the town

it's really how to prepare for respond to and recover from an event like that yeah we will not be training with them and i'm not even sure they're going to be the lead so there's state police oh right good point yeah very difficult in this town uh we would go to unified command where myself or one of the other command officers would be there we would just be doing ems uh thursday night is really getting creative about mci as a refresher and just multiple patients yeah whether it's they call it hostile event or active shooting and there's more than the target hazard of the school in town several churches shouldn't go the amvets that type of stuff have been identified i won't go into our direct policies and procedures sure um but we are preparing for it and then i i think uh soon we'll bring you all into it as the stakeholders for the town just so we're all on the same page answer questions that type of thing so

basically your report tonight is to let the public as well as the policy makers know that the events of recent months are cause for our training not that we anticipate having to use the skills but we don't want to get caught without having those skills all correct thank you for the update and when you talk about mci a mass casualty event bicyclists in town you know it just takes one vehicle or an accident that would tax our system so that would be a mass casualty regardless of of hostile events in town so it's always a good refresher great thank you um our call volume is up yesterday we did four we've been doing double hits but we've been taking them all one at a time we haven't had mutual aid we sent one to lisbon the other day we've done station coverage to lisbon twice for their fires but we're holding our own um and that's just a tribute to the men and women across the street uh as your health agent i have been we

talked about the uh bird flu sort of recently that's sort of gone away i just got an update on um influenza which is down and believe it or not i've been watching and getting updates on monkeybox in case any citizen is is concerned about it but we do have information about that not really uh a spreadable event you have to have close contact with fluids um has nothing to do with covet yeah but if somebody is interested i do have that um i did i know we have voting today on the amvets i did do a complete thorough inspection the other day before that i know i see they're on their agenda for some other things uh minor

housekeeping that they're going to handle very receptive very uh nice to work with them yeah and the last is we did have two of our recruits nick webber and a noah larabee graduate from firefighter one two so we have two new firefighters sort of certified right uh and we'll be marching them in front of you when they get their um certifications great other than that any questions for the product super great thank you chief thank you calvin

you did you get all the attachments i believe they all have both energy swamp road yeah and part of the energy will be the discussions of the hvac system here and over at uh fire department you see he's not working on this side oh jesus very comfortable it always did all right so it gets to be about 110 i thought it was the other side that was the ac was working fine that was the heat that was broken

um we've been ditching up on the auburn panel road we've been getting dump sites right next to where we've been ditching so saving fuel that's been a big help in this market so the stream crossings we got the army corps permits and the uh design had to change due to the army corps criteria uh because they've classified the streams as of last year as atlantic salmon habitat so this is going to require the uh to be changed to an open bottom concrete culvert rather than a uh with abutments rather than the metal frame the culverts that we were looking at all right there's a there's some correspondence from the engineer related to that dated may 23rd wants to read that where he talks about the engineers talking about the permitting what triggered the permitting to throw the quake and meeting i was really into a bridge because together we're on quaker meeting house for what are we talking about

that's uh as you turn off from 136 it'll be the first stream crossing right over that first hill starting down there's a big uh fire hydrant a dry hydrant there and a big fishing hole on the left right there for uh oh right okay yeah that's on the quaker meeting house side yeah okay so

back this spring when they were still ice on the water get shots all along the bottom they they really have changed the permitting process and criteria made it much more complex went with the same design criteria and we rejected it changed it all um so the uh they they now want uh twenty percent or they there's some number of capacity over the water line that they want twenty percent uh open space for floating debris and which raises the height which raises them to the width and so and once they hit 20 feet to become a bridge so quaker meeting goes crossing effectively becomes a bridge because it hits 20 feet the one on swamp road we were able to keep that at 18 and a half feet raising the height we still were able to stay under the 20 feet to keep us in the uh um out of the bridge category so the other one uh the quaker meeting house is going to have to involve the d-d-o-t and that's going to require their input

and engineering to for them to approve that does that affect the grant at all yes well they're here uh the grant so the one on quaker meeting house road will not be able to get done so we had two grants we had one for swamp one for quaker meeting right uh uh and i know we brought this up last time and then i you weren't here and it was involved i think there were two members they weren't here so we decided to decide to bring it up again when everybody was here too so i'm trying to remember what you already know and don't know i think most of you are here for that last meeting but the quaker meetinghouse road effectively gets cut because it becomes a bridge there's no way we'd have the time to get it done understood but does the can we use the grant funds next year or do we lose the grant completely well we're on a one-year extension now so uh that is uh in the works to find out okay they'll extend that another year if

they'll consider the efforts that we've made as as substantial uh work or start there were some questions raised also last meeting about whether or not how this was worded on the town warriors right that was what happened you were the chairman last time there was a concern that we voted for two separate things versus ac in the one warrant in the one yeah so we we voted for two crossings where we're gonna only allocate now the money to cover the one so what would end up happening is we would be doing one at 60 at the at uh out of 101 50 4 000 that would go to we probably need our town's attorney opinion as to since it was all combined into one warrant does the bottom line still hold even though we're only going to do one project instead of two for those that was the question last week i was posing i was going to get an answer tonight i didn't have a chance to get a hold of our attorney okay so was that uh

was that one project or two uh right because the price also increased and we'd be allocating all the money for the one and not the two at this point is that if i remember correctly one thousand dollars yes that one yeah [Laughter] yeah [Music] yeah so you'd only be doing one not two you have to come around with a second grant and raise the money again for the second one at a later date yeah so there's a breakdown costs on this sheet that i'd sent you guys have these or i can't i don't know but it yeah but i mean it's kind of irrelevant until we know the answer to the question yep

i mean the whole not the only reason but the reason we were doing these is because we got the grant incentive to do that if there's no grant then well there's no quaker meeting house project right right even next year unless we decide it needs to be done and we fund it out of our probably own the plan is that we're going to reapply for this again with the with you yeah the engineering and it should be we should be at the top of the list where it was approved before and now that's been permitted especially if they change the rules in the middle of the game yeah okay so um all right i'll get you that joe that question i i apologize yeah because we need to know whether we authorized to even i was thinking we were going to figure that out at this meeting but i yeah i did not call the attorney that that falls on my desk all right uh okay so there's there's these so basically it would take the whole

hundred and one thousand and that would still leave us two thousand dollars short and i would pay for that out of professional services line that's what that breakdown shows we'll be getting a much better product with the concrete with abutments than we would have been getting with the metal remind me again calvin how did how did this whole subject come up whether would the the army corps approach us on this or how did we know that we needed these replaced in the first place they were identified through the dep and you submit an application they go out and rate them and they see how you score and they pick certain ones to get approved they were both approved so they were identified as

the fish passage and the obstruction and the stream environmental concerns and so because the salmon fishing in town has been pretty slow there it's considered a critical salmon habitat if it's connected to something so it doesn't always yeah i mean when i was doing permitting for the mprp power lines we had spots up in the mountain that were nowhere near a stream that were considered critical salmon habitat because at a certain time of year they could be connected so it's has to do with what water body they connect to often more so than the actual water yeah itself so uh okay we'll get back to you on that uh i'll just real quick just so in case you come back to the table in regards to the swamp road project how would that fare out depending upon this question that's been asked in regards to the the grand cross if in fact we couldn't combine the dollars to apply to one project we could still continue with the

swamp road project no we wouldn't be able to do that if we we've if we if we're not doing this one all together because it's too expensive would we continue with the swamp road project we wouldn't be able to okay we would need the entire 101 to go into that swamp bureau because of the upgrade it's a whole different product and then so the added expense of 54.5 is that what is that from that is to change to concrete and the change of uh so abutments and part of me i'm sorry if you guys had the same conversation last time but i'm like part of me says you know what we're not doing swamp road either and and you know if you if you want us to do this you being dep and then the grant you put forth originally isn't enough because of all these because of these new requirements that are coming on board and if you want this done you're going to need to bring more money to the table otherwise we're just not going to

do it so that's that's kind of where i would be with it you know well that's kind of why i was getting back to you know what's what's prompting this in the first place do they really even need to be replaced is it right saying hey you got to replace those culverts right or that just because we think it's about time yeah like it's not that we can get five more years out of them they're the swamperts yes five more years

to address that right right so that's the question if you went in there you might have to go to that extent now sorry if you went in there to upgrade it to get rid of the flooding problem do you have do you have to go in with i'll say the cadillac of of culverts or can we just do another bigger metal culvert this time we could do like kind exchange and we could do we could we could increase the size of the conversation

be raising the road quite a bit too right like like as in like a lot of fill and the road's going to get taller than the god rails go off into the river extension they have god rails yeah well you know part of your discussion leads me to believe since they came and chose from calvin's perspective the two projects that they wanted to have done and now they have changed the specifications to one of those projects upping the price i'm wondering if the incremental difference is an unfunded mandate

before the horse shouldn't we see what they're willing to do and then have this discussion let's find out so let's let's find out and then easy enough you mean like if they're willing to adjust the grant amount isn't that one of the questions that you the question is going to find out first of all if if we were able to put all the money into one call that versus two yeah and the second is i think whoever the grant issuing authority was the question joshua's like look you know when you when this first happened you know the anticipated cost was x and the grant was going to cover you know x percent but since then these things have changed and now you know now the town's gonna be into it for just swamp road over a hundred thousand dollars and like so should we just basically start over and go into a new grant process and with the idea that if it's something that really needs to be done then the grant needs to cover a larger

percentage of it you know it's probably my guess is the grants this year are going to be significant you don't want to guess we want to we want to call and ask them and it doesn't matter what we think they might say we got to call them and and see what they will say i think by putting it even if you put it off i think that the grant funds are going to increase to match current pricing because it's going to maybe they will yeah so anyway but to josh's point i mean i think we need to ask some of those questions on you know do do they i don't even know if it's possible do grants get amended i mean in the middle of the after they're awarded or not or do you have to start all over i have no idea but we should be asking those questions and if in fact the money they were putting up represented x percentage of the total cost of doing business then they changed the cost of doing business right at a very minimum should

be the same percentage of that new dollar bottom line right yeah that would seem fair yeah okay so i think i think we i think we have our next steps on that one um that's just an fyi you know yeah that was good through that exercise that's good it's worth taking another look great thank you for doing that

on the truck though the new truck uh everybody got this notice uh 3 800 increase uh nothing that freightliner can do it's out of their hands like straight from daimler chrysler and everybody gets it then in fact the salesman said it's it's so bad that if they if if they cancel the truck which they would never do because they've got 10 other people that would want it because they're two years out but that the manufacturer's not even allowing them to save that slot the manufacturer takes it back and just wipes it out cannot they couldn't sell it to someone else or allocate that slot so that slot is that's how bad the yeah the supply chain is and the labor and they just want to cut whatever they can so that's a direct impact so but this isn't going to be delivered until 23. so do we pay anything in 22 like as far as a deposit so all the expense is going to be in 23. yeah when the truck shows up

right so which doesn't really impact the warren article there because technically we don't even need a warrant article to spend capital funds but um so we can make the call when we start looking at 23. when whether we want to um put another article out or if there's if there's already sufficient money in public works capital reserves we can just allocate it you know there's lots of different ways you can approach that but i believe they were predicting a november delivery date no november 23. the truck would be built in november of 22 but then it has to go to be outfitted which takes another two months another two or three months so it'll be here just in time for summer yeah well they're thinking the truck might be delivered to maine in november it's a build november build date so it might get here in december actually and then go to viking surveys for all the plow gear and stuff and they'll be in a month or two anyway so

it's 23. we we might get to plow with it this next winter or the second half but yeah are you uh any concern that the current fleet won't make it so the one truck that's being replaced won't make it through no okay all right good then why did we need to buy this truck in the past

than you paid for it in 22. there calvin yeah just keep the new one in the garage then don't take it out till so long the heating cooling been working with mitch on that got some prices and he's going to go over that with you i'm sure but apparently we need to do something with the ac the guy that actually came and looked said your ac is ought to be changed they're both the same way he said they're in this building yeah yeah they're the same age as the heating system they sit out back on the pan the furnaces are in the ceiling it was probably all done at the same time ac units are sitting out back behind the utility room here and there just he said they're as antiquated as they as the heating systems but so i did we didn't get any prices for those because i didn't know how you wanted to pursue that but we'll let mitch deal with that uh old town hall i went over there with uh mitch's request took a look at the roof

leaks and uh the people who were having concerns about water coming into the building getting on out of packs and things uh so i went over there there is a spot on the second floor about that big it is coming through the first floor followed it into the attic went back and got ladders went up in there and found skeletons and all that uh got in there and uh there is a spot it was i had to do it while it was raining because once it dries you see stains and they're dry but i had to find out which one's still wet put my finger on it found it it's an area about that big and i stand back from the roof i can see there's a shingle lifted or missing uh so that could be patched right now but you can see where there's been many leaks over the years where kind of is it an asphalt shingle roof it's a three-tab flat shingle that needs to be replaced they need to be redone all right so that um that should be built into the capital

budget for 23. so the flashing is all gone it's leaking at the flashing it's leaking and you can see where it's been leaking in numerous places and the stains reflect that in the ceiling downstairs and so that's the thing you know it we'll we'll want to get bid you know an idea bids on that going into the budget process so that the budget is because that'll kill you know how much they're going to cost and then and then uh looked at the um way up there look at there's also several areas of rotten wood that you can stick a screwdriver through in the roof sheathing or in the structure in the wood uh the bottom scarf boards and places on the outside that need to be repaired and the paint is all coming off it's coming off in quarter-sized pieces about that big just blowing all over the place well one of the things we were asked about or i'm not sure everybody saw this in order if it was just sent to me but someone

asked about or maybe they talked about it when i wasn't here that last fall we had asked the previous town manager to move forward with um forming a committee for the union church to basically you know be a group of people that would basically you know look at the building prioritize what needs to be done come up with a long-term plan i guess one to you know keep it at least you know in uh from getting any worse you know and then what's the long-term maintenance plan because that is a town-owned building i mean we own that so we're we're responsible for that so yeah there's gonna be some some substantial money involved to keep that place going but yeah the paint's gonna be done it's just all blowing off and so short what's the short-term plan on the roof leak then that we have a patch so i'm gonna guess two or three hundred bucks the guy that did the work over there lives right directly across the

street and i guess i think our policies under 500 you can do without uh okay the bigger question is a policy issue and historic preservation issue that's a money pit i know how and what are you going to get as a return on your taxpayers investment other than the presence that it represents i mean i think that's worthy of discussion yeah and i think it will be because ultimately at some point ideally this committee is going to be formed and

this is the investment that's going to be required and then a lot of people will ask well for what other than it's an old building and it's you know it means a lot to some people in towns but parking room or anything over there you couldn't i mean you can't have events there i mean or there's no it's it's you know anyway not to get into this so it becomes an aesthetic historic preservation policy yeah so when you leave there it's dangerous but then so then it comes i guess is whether you know whether it becomes eventually a public expense or a private fundraising grant type of thing um uh so we'll see we'll see but first step is we had a full investment we got to form a form of committee but no return on the investment i can tell you that up front right not not a financial return no but it's a nostalgic return right yeah is it the chair's intent to wait till the manager is seated to start that process with a committee

of citizens yes that is actually what i responded to this person and i said you know that that it had been the board's intent and but that while we uh were in a state where we had an interim town manager and we're in the process of hiring a new town manager we're trying to keep our focus to mission critical issues and that that once the new town manager came on board and got a chance to kind of get up to speed on the core functions of the job that that would be we can start working a little bit deeper into our to-do list and they were fine with that they understood that that would put you into fy 24's budget development yeah probably you know but so we so in the meantime we gotta you know keep water out of the building at a minimum right is the water effect in that clock tower or excuse me bell tower nope okay it's because that's been labeled in the past it's having been coming in below that

yeah okay all right yeah i had a actually they worked for us work for the town um the new subdivision on 136 uh right at the top of the hill was the entrance permit for that as far as is that a state issued permit that they issued the state d.o.t issued that okay and i called him and voiced my concerns and they had to look at it i told him i don't know who approved it but there's a supervisor looking into it okay no i didn't need all that detail i was just curious if it was in your vault in your house or somebody else's they were that was awesome i assumed it was but i just want to double check because i'm playing awards that's going to be a yeah fire chief might visit that a couple times i'm thinking unfortunately calvin invited me i was with calvin recently up there i think that's wingate i believe so um and i just got a 9-1-1 occupancy address for them so there are people i think starting to move in yeah yeah they need

to be careful coming out of there yeah that was when you put a snow bank here it's even worse freeway and if you and your pickup yeah then if i go there with my pickup and then i look at it in my car you can't see a thing in the car if you drive there now and try to take a left to turn in there you have no idea what's going on no you're just getting possible and it's funny because i said that to my wife coming in we've just come from there by the this is not going to be good here watch this she's like oh wow oh i got this all i got was a response that they're looking into it i don't know what they're going to do now but i noticed that okay fair enough thank you thank you

if i forgot something yeah okay sir mr chairman members of the select board thank you for your time tonight uh i'm the chair of the planning board and uh the second or third time i guess that i've been here so i'll start off by saying not only is today flag day today's the 247th birthday of the us army so

before uh before the planning board we have one project now deer creek's been there a couple of months which is the 13 lakh cluster subdivision right past the school right hand side across from patriots way so that's moving through the process our meeting last month we looked at the complete one of the things we have to do is look at completeness which has had nothing to do with the quality of the data that's submitted is it all there everything we need to go forward they were missing a couple of things we postponed the decision on completeness to our next meeting which is the 6th of july and if they get those couple of things that are missing in before the next submission next wednesday we will determine completeness of that meeting and if it's determined to be complete we will then do the public hearing so we'll announce the public hearing and have that if if in fact they they hit step one so

um so in the meantime though uh the town planner the chief calvin i believe have been looking at the plans that have been submitted and uh so we've been they've been kicking comments back to the petitioner so that he or she can start working on their stuff and be ready so we can keep the process moving as we go forward so do want to thank the chief and kelvin and the town planner and folks for you know joining in on this effort now rather than been down the road so that's the one project we have before us and i don't know if any more are coming in but but that is the one the other thing we are doing we had a workshop on the 8th of june to kind of take a look at our our work plan uh what we wanted to do uh as a planning board going forward and there were four items that came up that would eventually or could eventually end up as articles before the the town uh town meeting so i want to just kind of introduce them

so that we're all kind of working through this together and there are no surprises we get to town meeting time one of them in the town planner has been working with the various groups on all of these and george i think is his efforts being well received by historical and conservation as well as the planning commission so one is he's working with the historical commission i guess the planning so why is the planning board care um my understanding is they will have to have a public hearing before they can go before the town meeting and we are the board that would would do that either you all or us and so we're going to kind of do the true public hearing for all four of these uh potential articles um so the historical commission's working on uh some of their stuff and i think they've got a letter or something in there on tonight's agenda to do a little bit more there the conservation commission

one of the tasks that we've taken on as planning board and the conservation commission i think i mentioned this last time is step four to help with is the resource protection maps got turned down at the the last town meeting and so they've taken on the mission of kind of working with george and putting together he had a map for phase one a map for phase two which is delete those lands that don't have any resource protection add those lands that uh that do so they'll be working with george and then he and i both met with them uh and so the planning board will keep our finger in the in the pie if you will but they're kind of doing the original work um the third one is we're trying to take small bites for a couple of reasons not the least of which is i can only imagine the tower love to see 20 articles on changes changes to an ordinance so we're trying to do things that that keep it more minimal and make sure one of the

goals is to have all the public comments all the public input so that when we get to the town meeting there's a reasonable expectation that it'll pass i mean they know there's no guarantee but the town has had their input to it it's been tweaked to as best it can meet the majority of the folks goal so we're going to start that process this now this fall the other one is the back lot one of there was a some roads issues that came up one of the parts of that was to narrow a the road that led to a back lot and served only one one lot and so that i think is pretty much written it'd go from 20 to 16 feet which would hopefully help the the family or whoever wanted to use that back lot save on some cost and it would be limited to one back lot so if they decided to expand and then the next 40 acres they'd have to come back and yeah and change that that road so the other thing that came up in that discussion in

town meeting i remember it vividly was that it kind of went off on this tangent about um because a certain portion of the ordinance regarding the growth district had been repealed there was technically nothing in the ordinance that said that the town won't be accepting you know new roads so some language about how

you know what's required for a new road to be accepted would be would be great if that was clarified part of that in there somebody happy to take it back to him and talk about we were trying to do very because it was a fairly controversial topic well but that's what sunk that's one of the things that sunk the road discussion was that people were concerned oh there's nothing in there the language that said the town will not accept let me back up again when we had the southwest bend growth district not the historic district but the growth district there was language in that part of the ordinance that's basically said that the town you know you know will not you know is not obligated to accept any new roads outside of the growth district but when we repealed that growth district as part of the comp plan then that language went with it so there's no language anywhere in the ordinance that says anything about

you know the town accepting or not accepting roads so i i don't think it needs to be i just think i think it just needs to be a you know really just a phrase or a sentence added in in when we're talking about rhodes you know that there's um that you know no ta no uh no road can be accepted as a town road um without a town meeting vote because that's that's how we've you know that's how we've always done it in the past did we want to put any performance standards to that well that's all in there that's i think that's so you kind of want to almost point to that yeah and yeah performance standard right yeah no that's a good call out you know that yeah so it's it's something yeah it means i don't think i don't think it needs to be a huge huge effort i think it's just kind of making sure we kind of put back some stuff that was there basically because i think it pointed to it needs to be brought up

in such a standard in the in the ordinance yes couple of months so as you think of things yeah we're trying to keep it fairly i agree i agree with that and non-controversial at this point yeah not that we don't want to do controversial things but we're yep we're interested in a few things through at the next town uh tom meeting is there any value in your thinking and discussion about that scenario but the last lot in is 40 acres and

the road that would go in subject to approval would be 16 feet and they don't need enough space for it to widen to subdivide the 40 acres in the back what are you going to do then because somewhere somehow politics will come into play and you need to anticipate that in advance so that if in fact they're going to only do 16 maybe the right-of-way still ought to be i think the right-of-way still has to be 50 feet right even though the road itself only what we're talking about i mean i'll i'll take that back as part of the yeah right they can they can't make it not more than additionally non-conforming or by by widening it out taking frontage et cetera et cetera and yeah it creates a problem there but it's kind of a i'll say a owner beware situation doesn't always play out in the court the intent would be clear that this is for a one locked and we can certainly put language in that you know any addition you'd have

to go back that would require to go back to the planning board anyway yes and then once they do that then it becomes a subdivision and the whole new rules i don't know that you you need to say that but the whole new we can't have 20 feet 16 feet 20 feet no you can't have a constriction yeah so okay great the other the fourth one is uh as you're probably aware the state uh passed a law on affordable housing and so a lot of that does not pertain to durham it talks about you have to have public sewer public water growth management district so a big two-thirds of that law probably does not apply to us at this point but it does require or mandate that apartments can be put on top of a house or part of a house you can build uh an addition to a house and you can have a standalone property on that original lot so a five five-acre lot could have an apartment and a standalone and it's sort of my right i guess for

lack of business we still need to sort through the details on you know what's going to happen but did the state law does it address like how um property tax obligation is allocated in those situations it did not i don't think it said was it could be a rental so uh i would i don't want to have done if somebody would be smarter than than i am our ordinance now does allah apartments does allow the conversion of a single family right into an apartment um so that would not change i think what does change is you could build onto a house and build an apartment and it has to have um what as i understand it has to have a bathroom has to have it has to be a stand-alone living area or and it can be attached or it could be you know people throughout the term tiny homes but that's a misnomer because those are kind of 590 feet this could be bigger yeah and so those are the kind of details that we we need to sort out and

you know what are the rules for septic and well do you have to have your well tested to prove it can handle uh an additional apartment an additional high septic do you have to have a separate septic field those are the kinds of things we can control i mean if the septic system is insufficient for multiple we can require a separate uh what happens if that parcel has a standalone separated second structure and they want to have separate ownership of the two little parcels that are created as a result of that

think that's where the land question comes in right here and that's where the road they should have to be rentals well i think don't i think there's 10 of this well that's true yeah no rich is raising a good point it's kind of that's those are details and questions really for planning board to work through and then ultimately uh bring something forward yeah we're not where we are on that is uh the planner is gonna work with um maine uh i mean mutual maine municipal and because we're not the only small town that's now stuck with this right right so others are going to be in i'm hoping that that state association would pick up the lead and say here's a sample coordinates for you guys that's a that's a full agenda for a year that is a full agenda uh some of us kind of already did a night thing some of them were getting help on so the plan is uh planner will report to get the reports out around labor day we'll have public

input over the fall public hearings in january february and then come to you with you know with either an article to be written up or not for the town meeting so yep okay questions okay good stuff thank you very much thank you thanks for your time

the other lists okay to you devon is our i.t specialist and he and his mom have done a marvelous job since i've hired them to take care of updating information to our own website and doing it in a timely manner and she is also handling the minutes of these meetings so that we can get those up in a timely fashion but what we found is that devin has this unique quality to his abilities and it is therefore the microphone being turned over to him because we've looked at our i.t infrastructure which really started with eureka house as being your place for meetings our phone system which is failing and a host of other things that are built into that on top of the other infrastructure which we have to deal with and that is our computers and everything and printers that are now failing and unfortunately everything has obsolescence or age depreciation to a point where it's not functional but devin

want to give us an overview and tell us what you've done please okay so i'm going to start with phone and internet because as far as i understand it that should be our first major priority so you all have a breakdown of costs for phone and internet that i wrote up you also should have the full verbiage from my contact at comcast thomas sergeant which you can read through if you'd like but i'm going to go through it anyway so to start with the phones

388. option through comcast we will be getting 18 phones that is for this building the fire department and public works all will be getting these upgrades our previous cost for phones is actually more expensive at 476.70

which is also getting more expensive starting this month and that is through consolidated so their outdated phones are going to get more expensive so with the this new phone system um it's voice edge if anyone's familiar

it would be like i said around 390 a month the installation cost will have that dollar installation fee which will cover the installation at all three sites and that is the most basic thing i have for you starting with internet uh here at the town office uh we currently are paying 70 a month which we've been paying as far back as i can find bills for and that is giving us email boxes that we don't use we pay for them through another service anyway so that's something that we should immediately stop paying for uh we will be moving to business 300 and business tv we're keeping the tv so that we can have the access channel and continue broadcasting to it and that is something that is going to be included for a free upgrade from our current standard definition to high definition

comcast yes free because that's all they have anymore they don't do standard definitions anymore down package because in the future if we would like to beam the internet to eureka to get both places covered we would want that higher level um and that would just immediately already have us there for when we get to that point for the fire department they currently are subsidized fully so they are not paying anything for their current internet so i'm sorry subsidized by who by comcast

those email boxes so that's another thing so i'm sorry i say that part again so the the 70 that we pay we wouldn't be paying if it weren't for those oh i got you okay we would have been free also oh okay got it okay um so they are moving up to 200. 200 they also have a static ip which is for their server and i'm not going to mess with that because that's been working fine for them so that's going to be 159.89 a month with a equipment install cost of 69.95

public works they were as of now the most recent sort of package which is still outdated so they were paying 192.85 a month for 75 down and we are going to move them to 200 down for cheaper 159.89 so we're saving a little money there with the installation cost as well so i did some quick math for you that would put us at a little under a thousand dollars a month for the phone and internet moving forward now the previous cost was 739.55 so we're only looking at a difference of 243 dollars more

get the new phone system that isn't working and we have more expensive upgrades to the equipment now and everybody would be tied together on the same system and it opens up eureka meetings and i believe it also opens up potential live streaming on youtube which we can't do now because we don't have the bandwidth yeah you could probably do that unless you yeah um as of right now town hall streams is not working right so our current way of doing it is we take the recording that is already saved and we upload it to youtube after the after the fact right um yeah which still which is fine that's all that's more than a lot of communities do a lot of communities don't record or broadcast at all so um we're not required to do any of that yeah but there is a question that i'd ask devin to check back on and the chief just raised it in installing at the fire department is there any way we can reduce that 150

989 through an e911 subsidy with the new system if they're doing it with the current system is that transferable so we can maybe save a little bit on the rental don't know that is something that i can ask about again i was told that going forward we would be going with these standard business rates and i was told that in multiple different ways throughout my conversations with comcast but i can try again and i can press specifically for that as well

1920 for the fire department currently we're not um paying for budgeting for yeah two questions one is there totally your commitment since they're providing phones etc it would be a total obligation on our end from as far as it's on a two-year contract two-year contract okay which falls in line with standard business rates and that's fine is the contract prorated over the two years if we were to leave after a year or is it that i don't know okay um

for our 10-year renewal here on what would what would transpire if we were to elect to go to another yes and probably that had to deal with i think cable as well comcast going in alone sure understandable and then last and finally um last week or excuse me i apologize our last meeting we the the discussion that kind of got us off topic here and we suspended this to this week because there was discussion of a beam satellite versus underground cabling over to there did we find out any information about providing internet service directly to eureka so they would have their own service i haven't looked into that yet because i really wanted to focus on the stuff we already have set up i will get that information for you oh no that's fine but the discussion from last time i thought was to provide service over to eureka so you're saying this would help us because we'd have a quicker down therefore helping us with this possible

future satellite that would rest over the eureka center for the rest of its entirety i'm only pushing it off because from what i heard from you guys was that you wanted to look at this in september you said at one point that you wanted to work on hvac first and you would come back to eureka i remember the discussion last week last time it wasn't last night i'm not sure what transpired i'm just saying the last discussion we had with the board was about getting it to the eureka center and what we're going to find out is what was the cost we were going to contact a the local business spectrum whoever it is and see what it was because the the idea that was floated to the board last time was about putting satellite versus trenching over to the eureka and that's what raised this discussion and we went direct line through the woods correct yeah i'm going to suggest the famous words that you've heard over the last few

meetings this is all i.t upgrade to a large degree especially for a place that doesn't have it and i'm wondering if that's part and parcel of what arpa was intended to be used for yeah that might be true but i still think it's an open question like how how it gets executed like i think um like whether it's a direct drop-off poll to provide you know just the hardware it's another building i'm only asking this because that's what the topic was yeah last meeting was a lot of these upgrades were stemmed to try to provide service in our download speed for this and to provide service for eureka um because if because if we were going to actually at some point um you know broadcast from there that that feels like it would need to be a wired connection versus a wi-fi what are your thoughts on that the latency with the air fiber connection that was discussed with me very briefly would not be an issue for that

we only brought it up because it would be less work than having to dig a trench through over yeah the trench i don't think if i you know layman's opinion i'm not sure that makes sense and under any scenario i mean because i think you're either gonna you're either gonna do the wi-fi and whatever you said the air air fiber air fiber um or drop it from the pole right right i mean it'd be probably one of the two right yeah as soon as we drop it from a poll i bet you there's a rental fee oh yeah it's another it's another location there's another building yeah there was a there was a fee involved with the air force because am i

wireless fiber for lack of a better term i do yes yeah okay i've never heard of such a thing it's fairly new technology okay all right the distance between the buildings is short enough where we shouldn't see any major problems part of me kind of likes that i mean i don't know how much hardware costs but assuming it's fairly reasonable i kind of like that idea because you can you can execute that when you need to and then if you find that it's you know what that's not that's not cutting it you can always drop a line from the poll afterwards at that point right i agree i i tabled this for your expertise just so you know that was kind of i don't know if i'm the technology expert and i was like why don't we just call them and put on our own service over there at the eureka center yeah which is definitely an option and and i think that that might be part of a larger assessment on like uh because there's going to be

other technology that would need to be in there in terms of like ceiling mics and and things like that so um because that's our that's our issue here in this room to not be able to do hybrid type meetings that the pub the two way that the public can participate is because it's really the audio issues and the feedback that you get when you try to do that and latency actually is a an issue there too but um okay okay thank you for your work yeah and you'll you'll look into this for the next meeting or so yeah um you want your

uh fees that costs everything for air fiber yeah what yeah what is that yeah so what are the questions we're looking for my impression is is you know i think the expectation would be the the cost for doing it each way okay yeah so that we can sort of look at dropping a live from a dropping along we're doing the air fiber yeah yep so i can already tell you that if you want from comcast a new site

set up there from the line it would be at the same rate as say the fire department that's what i would have assumed so that's like another location yeah yeah yeah just just the only the last question i have on this regards to the fire department do you do you guys see the nest the need to upgrade versus right now somewhat complimentary um is that is that a hindrance on you this complimentary system versus upgrading to this you know 160 dollar system it has held us back actually okay he did come over our phones are antiquated you're not getting messages it is a communication upgrade for us better business for the community no impact to your 911 system at all right okay okay thank you

okay phone tech equipment energy cost we kind of did that one already yes and we didn't want to bore you with it or beat you over it's it is what it is and with the work that calvin has done he's absorbing that going forward

notice from comcast franchise for renewal process and i simply asked the question do you want to have one or two of the select board members along with anybody else who has the technical prowess to engage that that negotiation process i'm accustomed to doing cable in other communities like time warner cable i've never dealt with comcast and i don't know if they come to the table and say you have no choice this is our territory well i think that's pretty much yeah i

point what's the renegotiation slash 10-year commitment to see if we can get it to the lowest possible prices well i think i think we don't i think that's part of we don't know what we don't know in this in so i i really wonder if we should find almost like a buyer's agent you know consultant type somebody who understands this process and has maybe worked with other towns

again we haven't reached out to him yet but there is a gentleman that lives in durham that's um he's appointed to the the governor's board there on broadband within so even if he might not be the guy to you know have all the insights of negotiating a cable uh the comcast agreement he might be able to steer us to somebody that would be um so would would it be the preference of the board to have you make initial contact on behalf of the board i can i can do that if you guys will it well it'll be it'll be a while i'm pretty much going to be out of circulation for a little over two hours i would think this is somewhat uh that's standard operating procedure in towns that these contracts are renewed i'm sure there's other town managers out there that have gone through this we could reach out to one of them and say what what is the well example the lakes region communities office of ago all created a consortium and they dealt

with what was time warner cable and because that was their service area and it became a matter of dollars and cents at the table for the services being provided the drops the connection the annual or monthly fees and those are the kinds of things because there's certain things that the fcc requires you can't change it just because you want to change it right but uh the concern here is this may not be the same person sitting at this end of the table as this what's the time frame i wonder what's the timeframe we're looking at you're they're probably a year out before it expires so we got a little time and this is i wonder if mma might offer any services here too yeah that's a good one yeah um they would certainly um certainly they can again they might say well we don't offer that service but you could talk to so and so you know because they're going to be wired into you know all that stuff yeah i mean

and possibly it might be as simple as reaching out to previous slack boards like jeff or mark on the board yeah there was a guy there was a guy named jeff leighton he i guess he doesn't live in town anymore i actually asked mill simon about him a while back um because he was kind of the guru of the telecommunications committee when it was like actually you know a standing committee and i think that was the last time we did a contract i'm pretty sure it was him in that committee that was kind of on point

and just keep the board informed and see what path you want to take but i'll see what i can find out on on broadband i'm not i mean sorry not broadband but on cable franchise agreement do i have the i'm not do i did you send out the email that you got from comcast did you send that to us about what i don't think i did but i can make sure you send that yeah would you send that uh dude please and

okay uh i just want to raise to your attention a policy discussion that we really should have at some point i don't know as we move into sending out the tax bills over the next 30 plus days we also recognize that we've already put on notice those people who've been delinquent and haven't paid and as you well know every community through its leadership and its tax collector has the ability to place a tax lien on the property after 18 months of effort and that's a five-year commitment in some communities that i've been at there have been policy decisions that have said we are going to take the properties by lien if they expire and they haven't been paid in full except if there's asbestos modular homes pre-1976 they've created a policy is what i'm getting at homes 376. yeah uh so that you're not buying into a latent property that you have to then properly dispose of the other thing they they do is they

prohibit people from living in the properties altogether because you're now the landlord and it's your liability if they get hurt even though it was it still is technically their property so i want to have that discussion with you not make a decision tonight and start thinking about what you've done in the past as a lien is perfected and it's good for five years and what it is that you want to exercise on one hand there's no sense perfecting a lien if you're not going to do anything about it there's got to be an encouragement for people to want to pay up so that they can redeem their property we don't want to be the realtors if you will on the other hand if we just simply say we're not going to do anything you've lost the carrier it's been a consistent and i don't know if it's a policy in the sense that it's like actually written down anywhere but whatever the whatever's i think permissible by the state that's what we

do so if we put the lien on when that gets to a certain point if they haven't paid we foreclose if we foreclose they're gone unless they come in and pay and there's one property in town that that we like you said that we don't take because it's the old town dunk that's right and we don't want it and that's a legitimate thing right but no one's going to move in on the property whereas if it was my home and i was a real smart fox yeah i'd say take it no and then you continue to live there we have if we take it we take it i don't think and i don't think we've ever actually had to take one i think we've come close a couple times but somehow they always come up with the money well i'd like to see you have that discussion and make it very clear so that i can write down the policy for you because if you go into a discussion eyeball to eyeball with a delinquent taxpayer and they know in advance that's

not the policy they're going to pay you for all your work but we we've had this happen and uh it was pretty clear cutting drive so there's a policy in place yeah i think it's like um you know because i think it's prescribed in state law what's what you can do right title 36 i think that i think we pretty much follow that like we i agree with that i think i think that's the consensus and so i think if you want to draft up a policy that that matches the statute i think i'd be okay with that but i i agree there needs to be a policy and it needs to be enforced yeah that has been the history so if that's been the history that uh i would just before we draft one just make sure we have one because i i mean i think we i think we do um like i said we've we've had people in front of this board in the past three four years that have had yeah but we've had to deal with this in the past and we follow the

policy yeah i don't want to be heartless in other communities where in fact we've given them notice that they've got x number of months we try to set up a plan for installments but if they reach that date and they still have not made their payments they have made partial payments if there's less than twenty dollars that's a different argument but if it's more than twenty dollars due they're going to lose their property for for that amount that's outstanding and it makes you the elected officials look like you have no heart but on the other hand it's a clear concise policy because of that otherwise people would abuse it not pay their taxes and you keep borrowing more money to make up the difference and that's not fair to the other taxpayers the one thing i guess that there's one thing that we have seen and i guess this is the way it was like you know if they're they could be several years behind but they just pay

the year they need to pay to keep it from being foreclosed you know and they just keep playing that game you're entitled to do that year after year after year yeah so but if it gets past that point it goes right to jack yeah in in um really and it's you know yeah i'm sure some people would see it as heartless but we've seen it as protecting the interest of the taxpayers in the town as a whole yeah and then like i said in every single case when

the crap hit the fan they found the money yes and and i think that's human nature i just want to bring your attention to that issue because a few years ago mma said you don't want to become the landlord to the properties because if there are things that don't need code you become liable for all of it right yeah we're

and i'll contact mma on that as well and it's just something that you have so that it's clear concise and you can bring it to your next manager and tax collector i also provided to you strictly for your fyi your position descriptions tax collector finance and the reason i did that is in working with the larger committee on the town manager hiring process the committee asked me to put together something that effectively represents what is expected from the town manager in this community and so i provided that but i then came to realize that in part those are the other two critical positions that the town manager should be aware of and that there are other people who in fact are deputy treasurer or deputy finance director or deputy tax collector and so i put those together take them home review them if you don't like what's there we can change it but at least it'll be something in writing so that the next

person who comes in has a better start point and understanding as to their position descriptions in the organization that was great the bad news sorry i said thank you that's great because that started with he's the chairman of all of that and it was his committee who asked for it [Laughter] as calvin will tell you we have received notification of the automatic increase to the truck that has been ordered yeah and you can argue the unfairness to all of that the reality is you either accept it or you give it up and you can't get in the next line because you're not and it's still going to be cheap money somebody else will buy it for more right off the bat yeah so do we need is there any action required on that or is that just uh i think there ought to be a motion on the record that says the select board has agreed to the forced increase for the truck that is being purchased for public works

i would entertain a motion that we approved the what was the term you used forced increase for the uh previously ordered uh truck of um 38 hundred dollars was that that was the amount right so moved for a second segment any further discussion oh god is it going to be any more yeah is it going to be any more increases you know between now and then we may find that there are metals or something that force it to go up again freaking putin launches a nuke who knows what happens right

we when they outfit this thing there might be another increase all i can think of is look at the amount of car thefts have been going on with the uh mission control the cadillac conversion all right yeah did you second that who said todd seconded yeah okay and then then my final thing would be do we have to do we have to specify how we'll pay for that money and being that it's not and this doesn't look like it will be in this ruling this fiscal year no it won't be in this case it won't be in this fiscal year so that's basically we're authorizing calvin to say yes we will pay that go ahead build the truck right right and then they may ask us at the time of delivery into the state for some payment right that and maybe calvin i didn't know if we pay for the truck manufacturer at the time of delivery and then we make one more payment at the time of outfit because it's a different company that

outfits it yes that's the way we used to do it before i got here was the truck was one bid the outfitting was another i didn't like that because if something happens they both do this i said i want one entity responsible for the entire yeah we don't pay anything until the truck is completely outfitted and delivered so the truck whoever you buy the truck from is basically subbing out the outfitting but it's all coming under that they're responsible for the entire truck yeah i don't

the question was do we have to designate where money comes from uh i don't i don't believe we do okay so because we're not we're not actually spending any money right now we're authorizing him to commit to spending the money but we

we can decide as part of the budget process whether we just want to right because take it out of capital or you know whatever we want to do and then replenish that at some point through appropriation thank you uh i'm not going to jump to the left hold on we haven't taken a vote yet so okay any further discussion on that no okay all in favor okay we have five zero yeah mark down unanimous beforehand okay okay i'm gonna skip mileage for a second and go to something that's near and dear to both this building and fire department in this building you have one hvac system in the ceiling that you well know has already failed and they're both purchased and installed in the same year and the recommendation has been if you're going to do one do them both otherwise they'll be coming back again and then the other is through the town's fire department and as i understand it there's one or two offices involved and the one

large cooling room which is part of that as well we received quotes and i'm going to give you the numbers right off the bat let me start with the fire department in this case what we found was there the product's name would be yorkie and it came in at fifteen thousand one hundred and seventy one dollars and it's a ducted system okay

plus the cost of an electrician to come in and they have to do certain things to the the box itself yorkie is also a reasonable brand from what i'm told and there's really no back order delay the second bid that came in is sixteen thousand sixty dollars and eighteen cents for samsung it too is ducted the question is how long will it take for them to get the product before they can even install it as i understand it

non-ducted unit that's almost the same price for a fifteen thousand one forty one i'm not giving you the names of the companies i've got them here but really this is driven considering the products are fairly equal you have to decide which do you want to go strictly by price the chief is here to make a recommendation what he has researched as well then you have the town office and we initially got a single unit

cost of doing business at ten thousand five hundred and sixty seven dollars and forty seven cents that means replacing one unit and it's the hvac but now we're talking both units because if one they're both the same age and it's about ready to crap out so that's twenty one thousand one hundred and thirty five dollars does that include acs or is that just the heating unit just eating just heating just heating here

what you as a group want to do with the dollars and cents that we have and how do you want to pay for it and this may be another one of those items that you want to get the public's involvement with through a town meeting especially if you're going to use opera funds because she never appropriated funds you never planned on it it happened and something like this fits in very well with the arpa purpose

and basically if you ended up doing everything that's involved you're somewhere in the vicinity of about fifty four thousand dollars and i've there's always something that you never anticipate but that's fifty four thousand dollars for those ac that's for the 54 yeah the 54 does not include ac all right 75 grand is what we're talking about

do the debate i can try to answer specific questions but we have two very capable individuals here who have worked through this but we have the breakdowns you know right down to the nuts and bolts going forward but the reality is they're not that all far out of line right so in the same three companies bid both built they basically they bid both buildings and basically broke it out separately so we could see the costs for each building only one bill only one bid was for this building correct yes three two belter bids oh why is that particular uh for this building that's they came in and measured but i it's only the one one company there should have been one already in there for fifteen thousand something yeah so do we have two different people managing bids for the two separate buildings is that i think the chief was handling fire and then calvin was handling here and that was before i arrived they

started however i believe mitch delegated calvin to either contact and coordinate and that i believe is what cal has done he's come to me i gave calvin all my information you had three already yes which is heating and cooling two heat pumps yeah all companies went with that for the fire side of things uh calvin due diligence on all of it and i believe we may have two quotes for here because one of my guys was the originator of finding out it's in the trust one's failed not that it's a bundle but they they were willing to do both so so for this for this the amount of money i believe we need we're supposed to be doing an rfp for this we have gotten a verbal request for proposal but we have not advertised it correct yeah and i think if you look at the procurement policy you'll find that for something this large that so i think and i mean i think this is good foundational work but it feels like we need an rfp

and this go with the scope of work described as both buildings you know and all that and um because i'm not i'm not sure we can act on i i want to stick with policy but once you know the magnitude of money you're dealing yeah so but i think that i mean and that is helpful um you know if we were going to schedule some sort of a um

think you know we could do that as part of a regular board meeting i don't think we need a separate i mean because we'll have the town meeting and what we heard at town meeting was that you know people wanted to say in how our funds were spent and i think at the time it wasn't known or i should say it wasn't realized that um i think the concern was the board was that we would just go spend the money however we saw fit without public input you know um but now we know i think at the time people didn't realize that we can't actually have to actually have separate spending articles to use arpa funds so that is going to be the opportunity for public input and you know what people can especially at least for this first round which is kind of like you know need to do type stuff you know which is you know if it's 75 hvac just let's just round it another 25 for technology you know we've still got over 300 000

left to figure out something to do with now now did we receive 200 or 400 000 in the first trench 200 in the first one that's what i thought because i've been using 400 plus or minus there's the total total amount that's the total yes that's right and and i wanted to give you at least a the understanding and b the need for having to have a special town meeting to go through all of these because if we wait till the fall these ladies are going to be sweating bullets something fearful in here well yeah

the rfp without question it's too much money yeah regardless how we go we need a scope of work for both right right before we go forward i would just caution because i've had this happen to myself i'd also possibly ask the hvac guys building in regards to this one how much carpentry work is going to be involved to get those units up there um because there may be some repairs that are not on the hvac contractor side of the house right i did ask that question he said he would take it apart bring it down in pieces what's up there and then we'll kind of knew it up in pieces

minimal damage yeah yeah was there anything else that you could answer that they talked about well i guess if you're going to do an rfp someone has to put together a spec list what's the minimum btus what's the needs right you get a bid apples to apples and if you just say you want three clothes right that's all kinds of yep but who establishes those big specs

we don't have an engineer here and i'd have to go back now and look at that because even if you're requesting proposal we can generalize with certain language all the necessary things that have to go with it to make it fully functional you can make an evaluation of the the what's the term heat load or whatever that this here is a standard number

hvac services out of westbrook they come in and you know the whole thing they assess everything and they'll tell you what size units et cetera they'll also give you a quote on this yes obviously but yeah they'll give you the scope of work of what you need the chiefs sounds like you got multiple options over there because one some of them were heat pumps some of them were forced hot air yeah couple different there's a couple different options which we're willing to accept now here's an example from this one particular company the detail of exactly how they arrived all the items and i'm not going to get down to three screws and two nuts but all the necessary assembly to meet the manufacturer's requirements for installation and efficiency and to me that becomes a request for proposal and i have to go back to look at your policy more specifically to say if we advertise we're requesting it and asked

at least three people to come in we've satisfied that right as far as that goes you could use the specs as far as because i'm sure he's telling you what type of btu the furnace is going to be how much heat load now which is which is as far as the ac though we didn't bid that out so yeah ub again my opinion you'd be foolish to go in there and tackle all those upstairs and not replace the outside units right and um also the caveat was the electrical upgrade yeah i did for the fireside get an electrical um quote with an electrician that is teamed up with one of the providers does that force hot air over there now

but the the the heating system is it's first oh it's a boiler yes okay which was replaced so the heat pumps would be a secondary heat source because that boiler is really just he mentioned a forced hot air that's why i mentioned oh yeah mostly it's about to cool those heat pumps would be for the cooling side no at the york that he suggested there's a forced hot air if you don't have ductwork i don't know how you're going to achieve that that's the reason why i was out there that's right so i think calvin's about to say the differing of opinions by each uh quote but no duct work no force well it doesn't they're abducted units so they'll blow the heat in the winter what how's the duck yes there's no dogs

the different offices whereas instead of just being one that sits on the wall and just builds into an open space like the one will be in the training room yeah the other one is going to actually blow into each office and into the restroom because that that's actually a cooling center or you believe that's that's that's considered our cooling center so it needs to be yeah we always used to maintain that by having one of those big units and then what's it called but we switched two years ago maybe i think it was two years ago to the cooling center being the eureka because we put in two overpowered um heat pumps in over there i think we got 50 60 000 btus and most of that was because they were trying to cool 50 people up to 50 people when they designed that system so the cooling unit was designated at the eureka

just from a heat perspective away with just one of those i think was a 3600 btu we put in two of them because the town clerk at the time said well there could be as many as 50 people in here and they did the btus based off 50 people for cooling it um so that's how that ended up being the new cooling station so new to me with the school in a reunification center in an emergency the fire station sure from the school their plan which i've read walk the students down right whether that's a hostile uh uh a problem with the building whatever their their backup plan yeah so

center because it's a long facility a secure area for kids well i got a problem with it i just that's how that's you know yeah i didn't know about the it's like the warming center i believe the eureka center has always been the warming center and then we switched it not switched it that way but it became a cooling center once we installed those new heat pumps and it didn't beep them up just again like here like the offices like the train we have no pedal we have one window unit yeah i'm aware i've spent many summers over there many days talking to the previous chief so oh i many many many days um so yeah no i get i just didn't understand the if there's no duct work typically ductwork nowadays costs you sometimes more than the actual furnace ductwork so expensive yeah again i think it was different of opinions of the installers sure how they wanted to do it well ducting is being more efficient to get to different

rooms for sure as long as you've got suspended ceiling right they i don't believe they do and that's all over there the is a sheet rock over there some are like your office is sheetrock i believe some are bathrooms um it does have a larger than a crawl space above it all right and there's such a small squares that i think they were trying to do that yeah and again the electrical was uh different everything yeah the electrical would be different on the on the other end but um for those squares and what you got now they're using those samsung cartridge units

need to put it home yeah so that i was just looking through the purchase policy and our purchase policy is not crystal clear shocker um but i think yeah i think you know read through it i think it's probably an infor it's the it's probably the informal bid process um and then uh with but the the the thing that's kind of common throughout these the scope work and the specs need to be clearly defined but it also says in here is like you don't want to get so specific with the specifications that you you know severely limit what options might be brought to you but just you know whatever the btu that they're saying these furnaces are supply and install to 56 000 whatever the hell it is i don't know what it is 52 000 btu furnaces with two yeah if they're two ton air conditioners with two two air con conditioners minimum of twelve say or whatever the series that you're looking for for efficiency

yeah okay my my part found guys that each pack guy that works for me tonight's i can have him help you out with that if you want he works great i i think that would be good and then i can compare it with what our expectations are and then put it out there and pay for the advertisement where would you like to advertise it i read the policy first i'm not sure that it needs to be formally advertised mostly getting three different yeah i think you can you can yeah so i think you can send it to three but you just need to send it you don't uh to at least three i don't think we're doing the formal bidding process that we advertise and open sealed bids at a specified date and all that i don't think i don't think we're talking that um so yeah we do need to move on this i mean there is language in there this is the you know send it to three unless there's a compelling reason that you just you just can't do that

like maybe there aren't three qualified contractors or maybe the time is is of such the essence that you know um you need to move or maybe there's plenty of contractors but everybody's so busy nobody wants to bid on it i mean is all that all those reasons that's all those are all valid yeah we typically put it on mma all right and everybody's tapped into that all the time sure yeah whatever whatever yeah that's usually a pretty efficient way to go yeah and i think you know i think don't overlook putting it just on our own local communication channels because there's a lot of you know uh trace people that live in this town so sometimes they'll step up too so okay so let's see keith thank you we'll be back at it again sounds good but we've already got a couple bits so the last item that i have for you

have been taken care of oh that's right the voting that's where you kept it that was a good time today allow me to just finish this school school one was different this year no no number one we're now clear the school yeah on the vote numbers on the actual auction yeah on the ballot another question question of do we have to ever bring this to vote again well they're they're required by law to ask that question every three years every three years yeah um that that was part of the old school law so okay well last item the manager's report and thank you for your patience um i've received a request from one of our employees who has to use his vehicle for doing all the code inspection work and in the last four weeks we've seen a complete change in the cost of petroleum products and that includes gasoline as well as the chair and i talked briefly before the meeting the irs isn't going to change their 58.5 cents

until december 31st and thereafter right and it's not going to capture the time of of expense and this individual is saying look yeah i i know that the irs is what i'm supposed to get but these are unique times and he's looking for some consideration as to a better mileage and my recommendation to the chair at the time that we were talking privately was you know i don't want to make a policy that we're just going to simply bump it up the different ways you can play that game but what's more reasonable is purchasing power and and quite frankly there's an 8.5 percent loss of purchasing power because of the inflation and if you look at something like a temporary 70 or 75 cent per mile reimbursement to be brought down immediately to the existing irs level if the price of gasoline comes down to 350 in the state of maine you've accommodated both sides without gorging your budget but on the other hand respecting the fact that

55 58.5 cents isn't going to cover all of their costs and some of that has to be wear and tear as you've pointed out for the machine itself so i bring that before you for your consideration is there a possibility that those individuals will have to run their vehicles and right now we have code enforcement and then periodically one of our clerks will go to the lisbon post office fairly consistently and do the banking we should not have them have to subsidize our taxpayers for the use of their own vehicle and i'm not recommending having any clunkers out there that we have to take care of the chief

on hiring a flat rate fee using my truck as the fire chiefs vehicle which was aware of it you discussed it with me um i wasn't planning on changing that an amount yes um i can justify 75 cents from the 58.5 and that the if the price of gasoline comes down state of maine this this area back down to three dollars and fifty or three dollars and seventy five cents that's when we go back to the 58.5

have you discussed that with this person are they in agreement that that seems like a fair approach i have discussed that i would bring it before you but i didn't want to get in the middle of a public negotiation i think that if you knowing what i know that should satisfy

the temporary increase based on his gas mileage performance maybe it's not applicable to municipality but how they if the if the government's at 58 cents if you give an extra 20 it's almost considered direct income [Music] unless the individual can justify to through this right but how do we currently pay reimbursement is it through it's not via it's not via his paycheck as far as like taxes it's a payable not a paycheck and then what they do with it in terms of their reporting is their business uh they are being paid to use their vehicle and i would think that if they maintain depreciation schedules and all of their receipts i mean that's what i had to do when i was an actor i didn't i didn't know if we just you know give a stipend for once a month for these gas prices and so forth well that's an approach like i wanted like are are you allowed to reimburse mileage more than at a rate higher than what the

irs you can well you can but you can't you can't it's not an exp you have to but the tax liability belongs to that person well above and beyond the 58 cents which is direct pay you know actual it's hard to do receipts first well how to do it i get it but that's actual and then otherwise it's irs i believe so i don't know what's in between and now per diem up in maine so the 58 cents comes from where the irs irs puts it out and probably by december we will see what the irs rate is the mileage rate up here is 45 cents it's not 58 if you go per diem what do you mean by i know if you're on a business trip and you're you're using your own product is that a state thing or is that like a biw contract i know that in all of my main communities it's always been you follow the irs right and that's typically what you do yes that's why your policy basically is 50 i didn't know how it worked for the gentleman or the the employee excuse me

on on from a tax thing that's why i didn't know if you set it up as more of a a cola cost of living allowance because of you really is only supposed to you're not supposed to exceed that at least on the business world yeah but then that makes it tougher to make that temporary right unless you well they should do it spend it at whatever his suspension was it drops down the whole purpose of jumping it higher was because it's a trigger of inflation that is very clear right and then you have a a baseline that once you approach it again it returns back to the irs rate you know how many miles approximately

every day so even if it's 10 miles a day that's 50 miles a week round numbers 60 miles a week back and forth back and forth yeah so let's let's just get easily let's call it 50 miles let's call it 100 miles a week that's 20 bucks at 20 signs 58 50. 20.

a base and i don't want to do that either i'd rather base rate i'd rather have it as a one as a we're making a fictitious rate from you know utilizing a government source and making it our own that we don't have anything to justify it on other than the cost of living everybody noses up but until the government adjusts that we can't i don't know how it fears the municipality i can't just tell my employees i can give you 78 cents and then deduct 78 cents because the rate's only 58. right if i remember when i used to do it more actively and my accountant would say well where are your receipts that justifies the incremental amount that you're getting even the irs rate because if it only cost me 15 cents a mile because i was getting 150 miles to the gallon on a motorcycle the rest of it is considered earned income and subject to taxation so i typically meant you get two options you either get to claim all receipts or

you get to claim mileage it's not bold to the irs correct right but to you folks it can be you've adopted the irs number that's my point and you're saying that you can't change that so right so the question is do you just bonus well we can change it and he's got to pay taxes right right and if that's a choice we shouldn't be making for that person so they have to understand it if they want to accept it just because i don't think this is a big deal it's just whether or not you think it's i i don't think it's unjustified to give you guys 25 30 a week from the past right i don't think that's that's an issue whatsoever i i'm open to going back in either direction but if if there was something that you all had a tendency to support i would ask jack what his opinion is i was going to say i just don't know what the right answer is as far as like because he is technically an employee what i don't set the town

enough to be liable for that tax and i don't want to see that happen i think the question is we we want to supplement the income somehow of this person to help anybody anyone seemingly situated yeah which he's the only one right now

control is it for commuting purposes or is it yeah yeah we always have you always do some control we don't have a mileage counter on his car that we know uh he has to turn in mileage right that is strictly business to us right now you always lose control yeah i mean you're right there's always that possibility that it's padded but at least we're conforming to the fact that we're consistent to any employee who uses their vehicle during this period of time instead of the the irs rate we will supplement that with an additional amount you are subject to reporting that to your tax accountant going forward let's just make a new reimbursement right and then obviously he's either way he's it's an income for him anyways well he can write off the 58. now that i think about it it's six and a half dozen of the other but the 58 is you isn't usually taxable though you don't receive that how would you like to

proceed is probably that because he's going to write off his business mileage at the end of the year if i was in his position i had and i was able to do i had receipts for everything gas receipts i had the age of the vehicle oil filter all of that is allowable for the course of that yeah my point but now we're getting that's why i think it's just simple to do a cost of living allowance based off the economic conditions that we're in right now and whatever i don't care what you guys deem it fair but just go with it yeah but but what we pay out we won't tax is what my point is yeah he will get it under a payable yeah see but i don't think you can go and not tax them for that difference you see we can pay him the 58 and a half cents per mile not taxed as an expense but if we do something larger we're going to tax him on the difference then he can write it off and get that money back at the end of the year not

the other way around then the town's not liable for the difference he has no write-off if you're paying the mileage for from the town standpoint but if you pay above if you pay above the iron that's great that you can go 20 tax that extra amount no difference than the that's what i'm getting at either way he's getting charged that's why the company just do a cost of living allowance or whatever that might be from from a weekly standpoint certainly from a tracking process it's probably going to be easier both intel both in communicating what is tax liability is yeah if that extra money is

income versus extra mileage reimbursement right because can you imagine i mean how are we even going to report to him that we paid out x amount of mileage in excess of the 58 whatever cents a mile i don't i mean like it's like what you said what are you doing is giving them a bonus and then it shows up as a bonus with a 50 yeah whatever label you want to put on it i think you put a uh and then that's the difference and then well it's not a bonus i mean the reason why it's a cost of living allowance because it's based off of a set number and then we're going to retract it once that number is yes so all right so what did we figure what when we were i mean i think we kind of need to get a sense of okay how many miles a week is he doing it is he driving right and then what what what do we think the um how much more of an expense is that yeah it might be and then the value then and then we can then we can talk about is do we then

set the stipend at a level so that once the withholding is deducted he's coming out whole in terms of what is out of pocket it's like for instance when l.l bean wants to give their employees a hundred dollar bonus for the christmas gift yeah it's they the check is really for 165 dollars right right and but so that you net right 100 so i think we want him to net whatever we think an appropriate amount of money right in addition that works due to the higher gas i just don't know how you account for in in the municipal system i know how you can do this from a business end i don't know how you do it so i would this is one of those things i would either a ask mma what everybody's doing because i know we're not the only talent yeah or maybe call a couple other town managers and ask them because i don't know on the the dynamics between the municipality and but i'm definitely hearing that the board supports the

concept of making sure that somebody's not losing money while the because they're doing their jobs that's right right and i think we want it but we want it to work for him and us in a way that doesn't violate irs regulations we don't want to yeah we want to make everybody come all right that's looking good and and i think i think you know i don't want to speak with you but i think we're we're open to making whatever we decide to do we can make it retroactive to a certain date or something because it might take us a little while to stammer through this right um until we land on something yeah um and say yeah we'll make it retroactive to you know christ when he started because that just came off because that's

employment and we'll we'll adjust it so that at least that way he knows that if it takes us a while to figure this out you know if it takes us another month to figure this out then we're gonna we're to to the suggestion but these are unique times you're going to determine not only how much but the best way to do it correct talk to mma yeah

and yeah i will get a hold of mma and see what they're recommending and it may be something that others have already contemplated right that's the thing yeah yes i don't think we're the only one in this box most looking at everybody's as i was saying to the chair earlier the the inflation factor is 8.5 percent that's the loss of the buying power when you take 58.5 cents times 1.085 i think it came out to 75 or 80 cents yeah i i hear i i that's rational but gas inflation is way more than eight and a half percent

you're taking basically uh 20 29 you're almost taking 15 cents there and it's still in the 75 to 80 range because it consists of three components for depreciation operation and so on and replacement all right i will report back and and i would i would you know now that we we know that the board is on on board i would i would include him in the conversation and make sure that he's that that he thinks whatever we come up with whatever you want to propose that you're in agreement that yeah we both think this is fair here's what we're proposing okay yeah the town clerk also because we don't want to go through all that come up with a number and go back and say yeah ain't gonna get it the two front office people are running to the post office to the bank constantly yeah there's no reason that and it could be the same thing there you know like if it's if you know if it's it should be the same you know well it it's

gonna it's got to be proportional to the mileage right so oh sure yeah yeah so that's the thing whatever yeah they call it a rational nexus yeah right it'd be quite a bit less all right so where are we now is that that get us through your stuff hopefully okay i think that's pretty much everything all right thank you for your patience oh uh all right so i'm going to move on to public comment are you here for public comment you are a patient man hey completely i'm really into this please call oh good right yeah well we've got a couple of openings on various committees

yourself like your name in the street you live on my name is nathan ledger i live on uh brianna drive okay right down the road here i'm getting ahead of the agenda by one line item but i figured i'd use this to kind of introduce myself i've just been inducted as the finance officer for the ambits post 13. ah okay i'm a former uh coastie i was in the coast guard for about nine and a half years i did thorough law enforcement i did search and rescue and all that other good stuff well once i left there i met a girl and i went to the main police academy i was a police officer in freeport for four and a half years and now i reside in this great town of durham and my heart just bleeds for veterans so when they uh were approached by the national um ambits to kind of get their act together uh i kind of jumped on board and and i'm helping with that whole process trying to get us up to speed with our

paperwork and and doing all that so i'm here to answer any questions or dispel any myths or uh talk about or whatever or i can leave no so if that if you sit tight and say i uh i'm gonna look for if there's um is there any objection to uh taking agenda itis uh item seven out of order and talking about amvets since we since we have i'm sorry was it nate is that nathan is my nathan yeah okay uh is here okay so we're gonna do we're we're working on uh seven and um so there's two things here i'm gonna i'm gonna hold off on a for a second uh b uh there's an application for uh barbecue competition and brewfest they've done that three or four times it's actually a pretty fun event and the food is really good so i highly recommend it if you're around um the game of chance thing that was the one i asked to be pulled out of the consent agenda because i wasn't really sure what that was and what the license would

um open up over there uh and i was also i know it because that one is for um i had a chance to talk to one of the ambap members today i called and said you know what so what's the deal with us you know and um he gave me a lot of good information um this would be an ongoing thing not it's not just a single event and so one of the questions i had and i have not had a chance to read this application but perhaps you know the answer is i know when we're issuing a liquor license or liquor application like we did for them we had to have a public hearing for that and so i don't know if we're required to have a public hearing for this so games of chance if i remember right and i remember you could serve me wrong that when sparky used to go over on the school yard here we had to stop that one year at the end of the year because um oxford casinos inquired and said that

we couldn't hold the damn game a chance due to the ongoing uh regulations surrounding it was because they didn't have a license that's what this is the application for a license that would be the application right so not only does it okay i'm sorry i'm trying to interrupt you uh not only do i need a uh application for the license just to hold that yeah but then i also need to apply for what particular game of chance i want to play to this at the state level right but before i get to the state level i need to speak to you to you yeah here okay so your license at the state level is contingent upon us granting the license for this that's correct is that correct liquor works the same way right right right right right so it's kind of out of our hands this well the select board needs to know what's going on in their town no because we could we could say no we don't allow game of chance licenses in this town

so so there's multiple games of chance uh everyone's been to a fair you've seen pull tabs yeah that's your most typical game of chance where you spend an amount you open it and there's a chance that you might win oh we're we're not doing this what we're going to play is queen of hearts and generally speaking we're going to start selling tickets on sunday at noon until saturday at 8 pm all week long you have the opportunity to purchase a ticket and i'll backtrack just you have the opportunity to purchase a ticket all week long your ticket goes into a big tumbler on saturday we draw that name if you were to win there's various prizes you would win automatically like a u1 automatically but then you get to pick a card on the board and we take 52 cards a standard playing deck and we add two jokers to it so there's 54 total cards the game is called queen of hearts specifically because you want to find

the queen of hearts if you find the queen of hearts you get the jackpot sixty percent of the jackpot there's a breakdown in the application uh that i had to provide to the state uh our rule way to come up with a set of rules we had to come up with our prizes we had to come up with all kinds of stuff i personally will run the game which because of that the state requires myself to be to abstain from the game whatsoever i can never play my family members can never play my wife can never play um anyway okay with that totally fine [Laughter] i'm totally fine with that uh i want to backtrack just real quick because when i say you could purchase a ticket the veterans club is still going to be the ambits veterans club you still have to be a member you still have to be as a guest of a member who has is required to be there so it's not like the whole town can just go and start gambling at the ambulance

uh you still have to be you know a veteran to be in or a son or a part of the auxiliary or part of or a member of their guest at the end of the week say you flip over like the two of clubs well all the money stays in the pot all the tickets go in the trash and the very next day sunday at noon we reached we reopened the selling of the tickets and so so let's do so the pot goes and goes and goes until someone finds the queen of hearts however it's going to fluctuate if you win automatically you win 25 bucks right off the bat just for me pulling your ticket oh congratulations if you pull one of the jokers if the pot is a certain amount you'll win a certain amount based on what the joker is valued at based on how much money i have the state requires me to open up a separate checking account it has to be the money can be spent on various items nothing to do with the bar at all so i can upkeep the building which

mainly is what we're trying to do as a non-profit there's a lot of work that needs to be done over there um and we're trying to do all kinds of things i want to see the scholarships that we offer increase i want to see the building most of the building repairs and rehab that needs to be done over there increase i want to start helping veterans building homes or rehabbing homes or doing whatever

one of the avenues to raise money along with the barbecue stuff like that if you go into any american legion or veterans or whatever else they have these so-called games of chance like questions i was asking earlier when i was speaking to another member was like does this like does this open the door to like you know video poker and off track betting you know and it doesn't that would be an entirely separate application a different process a whole this is it's pretty clear on the application it's just for that one so correct and every so for every game so so this is just for the queen of hearts game that i just explained say it's going really well and the post says uh let's do uh pull tabs i have to go through this entire process all over again yeah and each pull tab game so you can have a machine that holds two games at the same exact time each one of those games is required to be permitted and each one of those games

is a 60 a month fee for each game please oh yeah oh state's got to get there yeah so i've been in i've been in direct contact with james gas who's at the gaming control board over at the state him and i have been emailing each other back and forth um and so yeah so for every game that i do or anticipate doing i'll have to be before you again okay

questions all right just looking at this although they quote the uh the statute nowhere on the application to say the date time and location of a public hearing with this license yeah i didn't see it either i went through it and uh i didn't see it either that's what i was looking for going page by page i didn't see it then i don't see it now if we ever hold a cribbage tournament that's a new application right holding the same process if i ever hold the poker tournament and that's like a one but that's awful like an event thing right or unless you going to have like every thursday night with like a night or whatever for however i pay for the license they off they offer oh i got you i offer everything from a monthly fee to i could pay for the whole year yeah for 700 bucks to get the license for the whole year and then every game that i play i'll have to apply for those particular games yeah each time yeah

which i can why things change but i can tell you right now we don't have any put i don't i'm like i live my life by monopoly one little greenhouse two little green yeah before you get the red hotel you gotta concentrate on one little greenhouse okay so as of right now we have no other plans no other talk no other ambition to do anything but this one queen of hearts game okay

i don't think it's the intent to have any public hearing because it says the completed form and payment must be in the office at the state level 15 days no greater than 15 days before the event is held that doesn't really give anyone any time to go to the elected officials and then go to a newspaper even if you did simultaneously i said unless i find otherwise and i'll i can double check you are probably free to approve exactly what has been said here and then it becomes a state responsibility to give you final approval correct i i just think it's oversight i just think the state says well we want each town to know what's going on in there yeah yeah yeah yeah is respectful yep i mean all right any further questions or comment right i would uh entertain a motion uh to approve the applications for the amvets for their game of chance and for the barbecue competition in brewfest so moved by joe is there a second josh

any further discussion all in favor 5-0 all right great thank you for coming in that is very helpful to have i don't know if you were planning on coming in tonight or if you if you got a heads up from from the person i spoke to or what we're all in good contact with this yeah yeah so that but i'm glad it was very helpful and i think in the future it would be just good like as especially if it's something we haven't seen before to just send someone to answer questions i'm glad i came can i go back to the public comment kind of thing yeah sure absolutely i'm a rookie and when i say rookie that's a complete understatement but a rookie real estate investor after leaving the police force i had to do something so the adu topic that was coming up before the accessory dwelling unit i just want to tell you that i don't know if there's stuff on the internet that i've been reading that pertains to the town of

durham that supposedly already has rules and policies and regulations already written up for it state supersedes local in the way i wrote it was the state changed the law so that anybody can do it but each town has to come up with that so it has to adopt it and come up with their own zoning requirements that would be standard so and i think like john was referring to earlier we already allow accessory apartments but there's some other you know there's this has expanded that a bit beyond what our current ordinance is and so we have to figure out things like well if you actually build a second structure what do we require in terms of like well or septic testing or whatever so that's what he's talking about awesome hopefully yeah thank you for your time all right thank you for the second i'll have him sign you that way you won't have to wait

think please okay when you just i haven't signed that one yet and there's actually two applications about what you can offer okay we sign that one twice there's one was for the license and one was for the uh one was the red to register the game yeah maybe maybe we only signed the license that was the two things i have yeah the license period yeah and then each game has it needs its own yeah yeah so i don't know if there's two places for us for one

been that let me know right away and we will come back we meet the second the fourth tuesday of the month and we will have to modify that but it may blow your schedule well no because we're we're here thursday and next thursday so i believe somewhere around there i read that it takes the state about 30 days to even do what we just did here so and before i even kick it off it'll be so once for the gaming ones for the barbecue barbecue and brew fest which typically would be under the consent it was i i pulled it out because i had the game a chance on it because i just wanted i wanted to talk about it and that's something that i think is from a big round i think yeah it's like a big raffle yeah yeah yeah

anybody uh there's tickets all over the place oh they're always looking for uh are you a barbecue you got to bring your own you've got to bring your own set up and do your own thing but there's competitions there's judges and there's trophies and there's yes yeah i went to the first one and i think i was out of town the first one well no that was a different thing they did they did that that was pretty good driver you know order it ahead of time and drive through the curb curbside barbecue with the amvets yeah that was pretty good from those rooms a week around my birthday my wife makes plans

make sense sure that is cool that way the town's people came up to you guys yeah right this one looks like there's nothing else for us to sign on this one is it yeah i think we had that happen about three four years ago we forgot something and somebody had to drive all the way back from augusta that was ambassador yeah [Laughter] i know where you live yeah it was yeah i didn't leave my resume for any bad blood i met a girl to leave the coast guard and i had three kids i had municipalities don't pay all that oh yeah no i was basically providing uh my daycare my check i said well yeah here we haven't all been there yeah i know i understand yeah i went home take care of my kids that's it looks like this one is good good to go

right you're right thank you good thank you have a good week sir take care thank you thank you okay no one the board is always looking to help you i'll have to run that by my boss thank you good luck six and you have something in writing discussion correspondence from the durham historic district commission so what how i don't know how far you guys got last time i don't know is there anything to discuss at this point um you know they were going into some things in regards to buildings and appeals boards and stuff and i i didn't think this would be the gist of it yeah i mean the way george has explained it to me basically the the historic district commission is basically recommending that the historic district ordinance be repealed that and that they focus more on the property individual properties versus a district and so i don't know how this is all like coming together and what they're proposing but you know

the one thing and i think i've said this to george but i just want to make sure that we're not um overstepping right making because like for instance they talk about 10 properties and like i think a small number of them are already identified as historic places and some are just eligible right but if i own a property and it's eligible but i don't really care and i don't i don't necessarily want to actually subject my property to those restrictions so that's the interest of the individual property owner is what i'm concerned about as as that gets drafted and it's not just you it's your butters well that too right

discussion earlier i mean we're not i think we we can certainly let our you know we can i don't want to say influence a process but let our feelings be known because ultimately articles don't get on the warrant unless we put them on a warrant right so um i think that's it's just i think that needs to be part of the process i think in terms of that balance between historic preservation and and individual property owner rights but so it sounds like they had an idea that they wanted to yeah do something and i think we don't we need to have something concrete to react to right and we don't have that right and they come up with the idea and say okay replace this with this other thing and that's something yes and i think yeah exactly and i think you know i think dissolving the historic district makes sense because i think you know it was kind of silly it could take place right right yeah

us i thought they had more work to do on their end yeah yeah but it goes back to an ordinance that was adopted by the town it does it says that any building and there's a certain level of categories that is 100 years of age or older you cannot tear down so then the question becomes is there overreach on the part of a municipality to go on to private property and it's abutters and effectively say you cannot do this and you have to preserve it why should i spend two hundred thousand dollars on a hundred thousand dollar building that has no use and function i'm being the devil's advocate here so i think there's a lot more to this than meets the eye yeah and it also comes to a bigger plan if you were to ask calvin what his vision of royals borough road is from maybe up as far as the amvest all the way down through to get and go he would suggest to you you need to have sidewalks to make it more of the downtown

secondly historic districts are configured with a butters properties in mind and they're usually at one location here it's let's just save every old building right and i'm not saying that that shouldn't happen but you have to at some point say i'm sorry that you bought that 16 acres of farmland that had the old town hall on it that we no longer use but what are we using it for or are we just going to spend a hundred thousand dollars to watch it deteriorate so we need to ask ourselves what is it that we want to be as a town do we want to define downtown do we want to define horse historic district or do we want to narrow the focus that says we have a historic society and commission that says here are the eligible elements for you to fill out and determine whether or not that's a historic building or not so yeah so you know um it's really not a matter for our discussion tonight there's really nothing that we're going

to get you started yep i think it needs to be started in another court i don't mean court as in uh as an authoritative as far as uh law or anything i'm talking about like a basketball code enforcement officer fire chief historic preservation interested parties all get together and make a recommendation to you after they thoroughly vetted well well i think i think that's kind of the it's not a matter of a recommendation to us because we're not we're not the deciding body the only thing we decide is whether to put an ordinance on the warrant or not when it comes to this but and i think that was one of the four things i think that john mentioned earlier and so i think um i think it's one though that the one thing i would you know and make sure that george you know gets good direction on is that his role is not just to craft what the historic district commission wants to see i think there's a larger public

input process here in terms of what is the role of historic preservation or and or district or whatever like does the town really support those types of constraints on individual property owners uh or not you know and it it so his job is not to just codify an ordinance what the historic district commission is advocating for and and i would agree with you because our planner has already used some of those same terms yeah and is that the right venue for them to vet this properly and do you as a board want to simply have a letter created that repeats what you've just said and when they are ready to with some kind of final draft then make a presentation to you that may in fact request it go before a town meeting for yeah yeah i think that would be reasonable yep that's part of their work on being in touch when you get back from vacations okay those good words all right

alone yeah and my bikes are let me tell you about my house no let me not tell you about it um okay um all right so we're done with number six now we're skipping over to number eight so uh one of the things uh we all know is that we one of the or requested ordinance changes that did pass was pulling the um all the various land use fees out of the ordinances so that we could adjust them over the years as things change without requiring an actual ordinance change process but and so the ordinances on on our website now have removed all those fees but we we didn't also put up what the fees are for people to reference and a week or two ago that kind of blew up in a misunderstanding about something so what we're proposing tonight is there are no changes to existing fees here correct this is just what was in the ordinance prior to the change just stated publishing them on the website and here at the town office so that people know

what they are this this doesn't preclude us from and i think george is doing some work on this uh when he comes back with kind of like what we said we would do like well let's kind of comp these against other similar towns and what's out there and talk about do we need to make any adjustments uh we we can still do that this year but this is just posting what the current fees are and that is adopted and in effect until such time has changed right and they haven't been changed right this is just we want to make sure that what we've been charging all along continues to be charged until you make until the town meeting makes any changes yeah and i do think though and and you know the and you i can see you've got a handwritten note in here like where we see things uh like i'll just use board of appeals as that was the issue that came up you know the application is you know 70 plus advertising costs and like well

what does that mean you know because it also includes notifying the butters and the and the mailing expense with that and so we should be in our next generation be more specific about what those costs are not specifically the dollar figure but what what just what are they paying for take the words out and just make it a whole number don't even oh you can't make a whole number no yeah for publishing that no because you have it well because you have a variable number number of butters too right so the the the interpretation of the word advertisement is what's at the crux of this discussion and in in common practice advertisement is the legal notice of something going forward the notification to a butters has been more recently understood because you're talking 7.35 cents per each and that should not be on the taxpayers that should be on the applicants responsible yeah so that's why i started

and i'm saying i don't disagree with that i just think we should be clear in the language of it so that if you adopt this as 70 plus notification of a buttons with um advertising and a butter notebook right that's what i was that's all i'm saying i'm not talking about a big long you know paragraph or whatever but it's okay these these plain and board fees are already in the this is what came out of the ordinance before this is what was in the ordinance this is what was in the ordinance prior you've been charging me for the last several months right several months okay well more than that several years so but it was in the ordinance now it's and maybe maybe some were missed todd like if you look if you're seeing something say well i never paid that you know or well these escrows these escrows are new the escrows did get updated in 2019 so that that is fairly recent but that this is what was

in the ordinance as of town meeting this past april okay okay this is our most current fee schedule yes yeah we just want we're just looking to be transparent yeah about what the uh so what are we looking for i don't even know if we need a motion but let's just i'll take one yeah i'll ask for i'll entertain a motion to uh post the um to adopt and post the current land use ordinance fee schedule as as presented sorry oh okay yeah you're right post yeah all right let me amend that affirm that i like that nice mr thought means we're changing yeah yeah yeah i know that's a good call that's a good call so i i move that we affirm and post the current land use uh fee schedule um as presented until amended by the board well i don't think we need to put that that's true of everything right it's this is what it is until it's amended by the don't check it out i agree with your language where it says

affirm and post the existing schedule to include clarification for butter for notifications on appeals as the fee schedule i guess there's a motion on the table i say we do second but it wasn't however but i want to make sure it's stuck in i'll amend my motion to affirm and post the fee schedule

from our land use with the addition of the explanation that advertising costs uh are for legal notices and a butter is there i would entertain that motion second oh no somebody needs to make it i'll make it so do we have somebody made the motion yes all right josh made the motion second okay now discussion uh mitch when we were talking about before i thought you said something about adding language about amending did i misunderstand

second ago i thought i thought you mentioned something about that i'm trying to think back because i know we're reaffirming that this is in place now and it's in place until it's gone before the normal process of amending or changing right sure and i think may you know maybe what you're trying to get at is that because the way the the way the article was on the warrant was that we basically get one bite at the apple a year to make changes to the fee schedule like we we um you know kind of then like you're supposed to post it you know annually or whatever so like this will be good for the next you know whatever year but we're not making any changes so i think we're just um adopting and clarifying affirming and posting yes okay okay are you good with that i thought i heard something and that's i just wanted adopting yeah that's not an you're affirming this schedule and clarifying the issue of the abutter

notice yeah yeah that's that's the moment i just as long as there's nothing else i thought there was okay no it's good it's good to ask and make sure any further discussion all right all in favor all right so let's get that up

all right number nine recommendation to apply for tax anticipation note not to exceed 1.5 million to be paid by december 31st 2022 and i think this is not unusual this has been kind of standard operation because the way i always put this to people and there's oftentimes a light bulb goes off so yeah that's probably not a good way to do business so we approve a budget in april that goes back to january that we don't collect any revenue for until july or august and that's assuming normal inflation yeah right well whatever i mean that's that those are the that's when we do it so at some point you know we've talked about we need to like rip the band-aid off and move to a fiscal year but um we're uh not happening this year so are we are we certain are we going to need a 10 already yes in the memo that i left at each of your locations i did some math our school is 455 000 a month right off the bat

we spend an average of five hundred and twenty six hundred thousand dollars which includes school payment which means our payroll and our payables so if you do the numbers really quickly we're approaching 700 000 of expenses and right now we have 1.5 million dollars as of today before before you sign those once those are signed that depletes it down we have approximately another two weeks maybe three weeks of operating cash before we run out and i certainly don't want to wait to the last minute i want to contact androscoggin i want to contact the other banks that we deal with have them make proposals and i want to make sure that jack is brought into it so that we are ready with the line of credit as needed it has to be paid back by december 31st yeah we've always because once once tax payments start coming in it gets paid off and so it's always been a pretty pretty minor expense really it's almost

about an sop for the last it has been and if you go ahead and if you want to talk about changing to a fiscal year not tonight no please i'm just getting crying month fiscal year and then an 8 and then a regular 12. so you can do it either way yep okay so um i would entertain a motion to approve a tax participation note not to exceed 1.5 million dollars to be repaid by december 31st 2022. so moved josh moves

i heard todd first todd seconds todd todd's top okay any discussion favor we have five zero okay uh entertain a motion we did pull remember we pulled a out of the consent agenda yeah because we don't have those minutes um so i would entertain a motion to approve the consent agenda with item a removed um and then on item c uh it was under the impression we granted that last week on paul asking my memory failed because i said i didn't think we did it wasn't here i wasn't i thought we did remember because we yes yeah all right so we're gonna so we'll move we'll remove c because we've already done that i thought i thought we'd already done that too yeah my mistake it's all right okay um okay so now i entertain a motion to approve item b from the consent agenda so move by josh

all in favor all right 501 that all right upcoming meetings um the town manager hiring committee uh actually with with in conjunction with the full board at the request of the hiring committee because i want people to understand that that because that is a little bit off from the original process that we all uh that we came to but at the request of the committee the basically rich and i who are not the only two boy members not part of the committee were asked to join uh for these first two interviews so by way of explanation we talked about that and and and thought that was the best approach because there's only we're only having two interviews and and if there's a need for a second interview we could always ask them yeah that could still happen right right and so we thought it was best to have us all there at once yep short process yeah speed things up all right well hopefully hopefully we really like

one or maybe even both of the candidates okay uh so anyway that committee is is meeting and this is an executive session meeting there's no public business that night but it does have to be noticed so that is this thursday at 6 30 and then again for another candidate on june 30th at 6 30 um and any other and i will actually i want to uh upcoming news the chief mentioned the uh trek across maine i did want to mention that again um that and just a reminder that it is state law that when a motorist passes a cyclist that you need to give them at least three feet you know and i understand that for some people having you know a thousand twelve hundred cyclists coming off route nine down route 136 might be a little bit of an inconvenience for a day even though it's going to happen outside the commuting please keep in mind that each of those people riding raised at least 500 for the american lung association and i

think probably all of us in one way or another have had someone impacted by a lung disease so um patience is appreciated headlights on that day is even more appreciated because it's you can see the cars coming a little bit better so anyway just wanted to put that additional thing out so that'll be this friday um so be on the lookout for that all right um we don't need an executive session tonight right so we can skip over that all right i'll entertain a motion to adjourn tom all right joe i keep calling you tom yeah i'll second it all in favor all right we are adjourned thank you devon thank you oh we gotta sign the warrant don't leave