TranscriptDecember 1, 2020 ~ CIP Meeting

opportunity to uh to uh you know, of course, everyone is at home, but everyone has an opportunity to spend time with their family this evening. So, just wanted to let you know I just joined. Thank you. Hi, Michelle. Good to see you.

I have power and internet. Oh, kidding. That's wonderful. Back on the grid. What's that? Are you back on the grid? Well, our generator died because apparently it got hooked up wrong by the electricity, but that's okay. Power came back in Durham, so we're good.

Oh, excellent. Excellent. That's great. All right. Well, that was quite a night last night. Uh, thank you to both uh Chief Moore and to Calvin for their efforts last night. Uh I'm sure it was a busy evening and uh lots of certainly a number of trees down and lines down and those kinds of things. So thank you both. Welcome everyone to the December 1st meeting of the capital improvement committee. Uh this committee's charge is to review capital expenditure applications for the upcoming budget year, score them in accordance with the town CIP policy, and then provide a ranking recommendation to the selectman uh that they can use to assist them in terms of uh putting together the warrant. So just for the record here, let's start with the role because this meeting is being recorded and I think actually uh we're supposed to do that in these COVID times when we're meeting uh via Zoom. We're supposed to take the role. So um

committee members, Joe Tom. Hi. Uh yeah, Joe Tom, 118 drive uh on the committee. Okay, very good. Curtis Demok Curtis. Okay. No Curtis tonight. Michelle Michelle Rolo here. Yep. Uh 68 David Lewis Drive. Wonderful. Brian Pike.

myself, Paul first. So, we are a committee of five. We have three. So, we have a quorum. Um, and I think we're also expecting selectman Mark Farren to join us hopefully in progress. Uh, I understand that he's held up. And then we also have with us the public works director uh road commissioner.

Calvin, what's your form formal title? Public works director or road commissioner? Road commissioner. Okay. Very good. Thanks. All right. and uh our fire chief. So, um Chief Moore. So, let's go ahead and and take care of the pledge here this evening. If you guys could join me in the pledge.

United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you. so uh down to business. At our last meeting, we came up with a set of questions about the uh 2021 applications for our department heads and they've been kind enough to come this evening to talk with us about their applications and about their plans. Thank you both. Um, so I think the plan this morning or this evening is to start with public works

here, does everyone have a a set of the questions of the applications and the questions? Yes. Okay. Wonderful. All right. So, um I will pull we'll start with Calvin and I will go ahead and see if I can share a copy of the um of the schedule

schedule. Yeah. Which one? Oh, hold on. Hold on. I think I Oh, boy. Crow some of these other screens here. All right. Okay. Yep. schedule. Here we go. All right. Calvin. So, who would like to kick this off? Does one of the other committee members would they like to start out with questions about the schedule? I'll defer to the other committee members here first.

we'll cut in here. Okay, sounds good. So, um, are you anticipating road bonds for the upcoming shim and overlay work, you know, for the next few years or is that or do you anticipate that that'll be paid from operating funds?

Yep. So that is uh scheduled to be in the operating funds uh I don't see any bonds uh until sometime in the 2031 range. Oh okay. Yeah. Okay. I guess that's good news. now I see you know I noticed and of course this is a uh kind of a tough nut to crack. We started this department I believe in 14 and purchased a number of vehicles with the you know the business and the property number of used vehicles but I guess also purchase new vehicles at that time. So, um, you know, I I was interested, Calvin, in hearing your thoughts about distributing some of those costs that we've got coming up around FY26, uh, you know, that is related to, you know, all those vehicles that were that were purchased in FY15 coming due right around the same time. You know, could you talk a little bit about that and what your thoughts there were? So I think that the the schedule I I tried to do that. Um

yeah. Yeah. No, I think you did to a large extent but but you know it's important enough that I was hoping you could just talk about it a little bit. So trying to stagger those out and so you know we had one in 2020 and then we skip a year we go to 2022 and then um and then the next one is 2026 and then 27 28 just trying to um I

I really don't know I mean I'm open to suggestions if anybody has a better way of of uh and I don't understand this is just my department. I don't know how this affects uh townwide budget or um cost that Ruth has a better handle on on the uh overall aspect, but this her and I worked together on this and we thought this was a pretty uh pretty balanced way to do it.

Um can you guys remind me what year do we have engine 21 coming up? have that just as you know point of reference. That was initially initially slated for 2024 but I'd like that to be part of our discussion tonight. Okay. Okay. Um All right. No, that that's very good, Calvin. You know, it looks pretty good. It looks like you know some of these years like of course we don't want to be replacing vehicles right before they're due,

right? But um looks to me I mean my general sense is uh that it makes sense to have some emphasis on reserve in preparation for these years that we've got coming uh starting in FY26. And of course my understanding is that with regard to our bonds that we'll have some bonds beginning to retire around that time.

Yeah. Around tw 2026. Yeah. um bought that at the same time. You know, that is a from 2026 to 2035, that 9-year period, that's a pretty heavy period where we have a uh you know, like a major vehicle coming due every year.

uh we were working yesterday I was in with her and we were she was putting together a graph chart that shows those bonds coming off and when and that was kind of why we came up with these numbers where we did because Yeah. Yeah.

In the larger picture it made sense. Uhhuh. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It makes sense to me. Um do the other committee members have questions regarding the schedule, the public works schedule? No, we talk about the applications I think in a few minutes.

Okay. Okay. Well, if that's the case, let's move on to your reserve request. Um, reserve request your reserve account balance is 68,321. number that when I put this together, we they've made some changes um since then with Ruth and

Uhhuh. that that actually that number is 121821 as you'll see on the replacement schedule in the blue in the blue column. Um you'll see I just noticed I just noticed that that was outdated yesterday. Okay. If you look in the blue, if you look in the blue column on the uh public works schedule for funding for capital request, you'll see 2021 starts out with 121820, which is about 310,000 in there, but 188 of it is already set aside for the

So, how much are you asking for for this year for I'm sorry, for 2021 is to be put into reserve. uh reserve is um 100,000 asking for 100,000. So now did you say that part of that 121821 is committed for something? No. Okay.

There was 310,000 the 188 is already committed. So 121 is the is what's left. 121 821. Now I guess my question is what number is reflected in the combined schedule Mhm. Okay. So that's the number that Ruth carried. Yes. Okay. All right. Um, so now my recollection and you guys help me if I'm, you know, if I don't have this totally straight. So Durham does it a little different, but my understanding is that you have the ability if the selectment agree to roll um operating funds, unexpended operating funds into your reserve. Is that right?

That that's the way it was set up. Yes. Yeah. Okay. When they started public works. Yeah. All right. So, here we are. It's December 1st. Who knows what the month of December will bring, but um you know, we've got the the bulk of the year behind us. Ruth, I guess this question is for Ruth and for Calvin. What does it look like? What do you think we'll go back? This is one of the challenges of this process because you know we're trying to do this before those numbers are known so that we're in sync with the budget process and it's very challenging when we don't know what's going to get rolled.

It's looking pretty comfortable pretty comfortably at about 50 60,000. Uhhuh. And is that something where you know the the selectmen make a decision on how much is rolled or does it automatic? Ruth would have to answer that.

It's automatic. It's a town um town meeting vote that puts that into the capital fund. So there would have to be another town meeting vote to uh stop that. Okay. So, we anticipate 50 to 60k will roll into your reserve and that that 50 or 60k isn't included in the combined

schedule. Is is that is that pretty much right, Ruth? Yeah, that sounds about right. Okay. So, committee members, um, uh, do, um, are we all on the same page pretty much with that with regard to understanding that there is 50 to 60,000 and Mark Farren brought this up. It was a really good point at the last meeting, which was that um, you know, money hasn't been rolled yet from that account and that it's been that they're expect they expect to have operating funds. The department expects to have operating funds that are unexpended at the end of the year and rather than those funds going into an undesated account in Durham, they go into the department's uh you know equipment reserve that was set up at a past town meeting many years ago I believe. So that it's very likely that of course you know who knows what December is going to bring but it's very likely that that balance that 121 uh whatever it is and change that that's

going to go up by 50 or 60,000 and that's not reflected in in the in roof schedule or Galvin schedule. So, the the 2000 SE International that's coming up. Yeah. 20 year old dump. Yep. Yeah. You know, again, amazing that you're able to run these trucks so long. That's really impressive. Um I guess my question is is it currently a spare or is it still on a plow route?

So we uh we used we had seven wheelers and that was the way the department was started. The select board at uh one one point had asked me to see if we could take when we were talking about the whole CIP process was to ask me to take one of the trucks off the schedule, see if we could take it out. And so I did. So now I have six trucks. Um

I see. And and the six trucks if one of them breaks down then I go to five routes. Um and I have uh other trucks just overlap a route and we rotate back and forth that way. Um but that's uh the the six is the absolute minimum that I could have. So none of them really none of them go to spare like we like we had like we had before. Do we have a spare? I mean, do we have a spare?

No. So, we don't have a spare anymore. No. Okay. All right. So, yeah, I was going to ask the same thing. So, it's inefficient at that point uh to um um inefficient at that point to run five versus six. Well, if you had if you had five and one broke down, then we' be down to four. That would really put us

way Oh, yeah. No, I totally understand. I'm just just just clarifying that that six is the bare minimum at this. That's the bare minimum. Yeah. So that you don't overlap roots at all. Right. Okay. Which would be inefficient.

Yeah. Yeah. So what what are we running this winter? Are we running we running six or how many are we running this winter? We're running six. Six. Okay. Yeah. That's what we've done. That's what we've done the last couple of winters. Yep. Okay. All right. Any other questions about the reserve request?

On that part, no. Well, let's go on to the next reserve request or the next request. Sorry. It's not a reserve request. It's a it's a project request and it's for a small dump truck. Let me see if I can find it here. So, the title of this request is um improvement and it is for a single axle 1 and a half

ton dump truck with plow wing and live hydraulics. Um the reserve account numbers affected would be the public works capital fund and the reserve account balances are 121821. All right. And uh probably you know plus what gets rolled, right? Um and

justification. Okay. As was planned since the creation of the public works department, we've added a full-time position which allows us to split the crew and have them working at different locations within the town. I'm going to stop there just for a moment. Calvin, could you tell us a little bit more about kind of, you know, the the need and why why the additional employee was brought on? Well, it was in the initial plan by the it was that's the way it was set up with the committee and the select board and we uh felt we wanted to get our feet under us and work together as a team with with the four with the four crew all working together. We did that for a couple of years and really um to get uh

where we need to be. We need to I I needed to be able to split the crew and send instead of having the entire crew in one location. I can send a crew uh on on two separate sides of town and u so that we can complete the workload that we need to complete and and that's just left us uh that's that that was the plan from the beginning. It wasn't anything that ever changed. It was just we delayed the we delayed the start of that. How what's the So, you know, um can you

give us some sense of what the size of the crew is of the full crew now? Yeah. So, there's a full-timers do we have? There's five full-time and me. There's six. Okay. Six full-timers including you. Yeah. And and that u uh and and a part-time.

Okay. One part time for plowing. Uh well, we have two or three part-time for plowing, but in the summer, in the summer, we have a part-time guy that does u maintenance, mowing, and uh uh taking care of the parks and fixing um you know, outuildings and picnic tables and things like that.

I see. Yep. Okay, great. All right, so back to the application. Each crew needs a small dump truck to be fully equipped with safety signs and tools. Currently, we have two one-tonons and a pickup truck. The pickup truck is driven by the uh road commissioner who bounces back and forth between job sites and attends other meetings with contractors and other professionals with the other two one tons at two separate work sites. There is no truck available for maintenance of town properties uh or for the mechanic to run parts. So, in the summertime, would this truck be used for the part-timer?

Yep. from mowing and park park uh maintenance and uh and and and so uh what's a little odd is when this whole plan started there was it was a combination with Pel and Panel brought their own pickup truck. So the pickup truck that I drive was an additional truck that the crew had to operate that when we split with panel and panel took the pickup pickup truck back that now belongs to the road commissioner. Whereas whereas before the panel truck was the commissioner's truck and so that kind of took one truck out of the fleet right there.

Yeah. And there's just not enough trucks for to go around. We don't we just don't have enough trucks. We're always uh finding ourselves figuring out how we're going to get somebody somewhere and then we have to go pick them up and then they can't move the tools. And

is it that there aren't enough trucks or the trucks aren't um you know heavy duty enough to do the things like the level of plowing you need for the residential streets. It's both. It's both actually. Um, so in the summertime it's lack of trucks and in the winter time it's u it's uh uh

lack of uh um efficiency and uh the the one tons are being over being overt taxed. They're not designed to plow the do the amount of plowing that they're doing. And uh it's it it from from day one I recognized that we were in the first plowing season that we needed to have a u a bigger truck than the one tons something with a wing but smaller than the uh but smaller than the u the wheelers to do the small developments. And

so you know it sounds like you've had some discussions with the selectman and they've asked you to take one of the wheelers off the schedule. Mhm. Was part of that negotiation this vehicle? No. No. Okay. Because I I'm I'm just seeing that, you know, you're taking away capacity on the Wheeler end, but you're adding some capacity here with regard to, you know, this one and a half ton.

So, I wasn't sure if it was kind of like, you know, if it was part of that negotiation or not. No, it was uh this this this is a u a plan that will allow us to really balance out the u the fleet so that it's more um uh effective and I it really makes the um the crew much more productive.

so um with the uh one and a half ton, I mean, is that I'll use the word um uh not as um I'm going to go the other way with this. Are you able to use the one ton truck in the summertime for everything that you need to do for moving people around? And I say the one ton truck, I'm talk talking specifically about your truck in general. I is that a

viable option. If you if you had another one of those, would that be a viable option to actually move people around during I'll say most of the months during the year other than the winter? So I it's Go ahead. the the the F550 is small enough that it can be used in the summer and the winter.

Yeah. If you go with a bigger dump truck, let's say you went with a single axle sevenyard truck, it's it's too high. The tailgate's too heavy. Everything's too big. You really can't use it as a uh you can't use it as a construction or sight truck for tools and

right the maneuverability is not there. So, um th this this uh the 550 can be used as a work truck in the summer, plow truck in the winter. It it gives us the other truck we need and it also uh is much more efficient and effective at plowing than using the one tons.

What What are you currently running parts with? Um, we have to somebody has to go get the mechanic and bring him back to the job site and and take the the truck from the job site and have to give him a ride over to get the one ton, leave them there. And what's different about construction in in highway work is we don't go to work and stay in one spot all day.

It's a line it's a linear project. We're always moving down the road. So, every, you know, hour or so, we have to move the signs or half hour even sometimes we have to move the signs. move. We have to move the work site uh throughout the day. And so it's very frustrating when you they're at a standstill and they can't move and they have to wait for someone to come get them or summon someone to stop whatever they're doing to come and and and help them because either you know it's either being used for mowing or going to get parts or so. Even even with the added truck, this it's still going to be have to be a shared truck with a mechanic and the um and the grounds crew. And

does it make sense though to have that truck be the truck used for running parts? Well, I would probably use the the 2008 one ton. I probably calling it the red one ton. You probably don't know what that is, but it's a 2008 one time would would be used for uh maintenance and power. It's running.

I see. Yeah. Yeah. Um so, you know, uh part of the job of this committee is we're supposed to try to figure out kind of like what's a what's a want and what's a need. Yeah. Difficult thing, right? I mean, I hear I hear where you're coming from. So I guess my question is and and you know your operations are fairly complex and I appreciate that you know you've got a lot of stuff going on that you're trying to uh a lot of different types of jobs depending on the season depending on the day and you're trying to distribute the workload as good as possible among among those vehicles. And I also understand that um you know Durham has taken the philosophy of adopting subdivision roads and so you've got a lot of subdivision roads out there to plow.

Yeah. So um I guess my question is what's your best alternative? Let's say you you don't get this then what would your best alternative be in your mind? What would you do? we would just have to we would really be forced to just continue doing what we've been doing. Um it's uh

um you know it's just it's an ineffective inefficient uh way of doing it. But so there are no real alternatives you see out there. What about the idea of, you know, getting this truck, you know, this truck that has the additional capability, for example, the wing, you know, it's a 550. It's heavier duty. it's gonna it's going to work better and um last longer for this plow work

of the subdivision roads. But then the idea of retiring one of these other trucks like this 2008 dump that you've got coming up in a couple years that kind of defeats the purpose of the shortage that I have. I have address the shortage. So, I mean, maybe we could move the 2008 down the uh down

the line and keep that in in operation for a few more years if I had the other truck. Could you replace the 2008 with a pickup? Would that help you? No. No. Because the 2008, the dump is able to go and get reclaim for driveways, rip wrap for for coverts. It's a dump truck pickup truck wouldn't do that. Now, what what about the the GMC 2500? Is that a dump or is that a pickup?

It is a flatbed. Um it it is it is a dump, but it doesn't have sideboards and it's uh so that that is the has a stationary fuel tank on it all summer that's used to f the equipment with on site and it is the forman and then and then in the winter it has a sander mounted to it all winter. So, it's pretty well um dedicated.

Mhm. Okay. Um so, but I mean I'm I'm open to maybe moving the 2008 down the schedule and and and keeping that for a few more years. Uhhuh. If if I mean that that that might be an option that we could uh I mean we could I'd much rather live with that option than not getting another truck.

Uhhuh. Crap. Okay. So, uh let's see. Uh Joe, Michelle, others, do you have anything you'd like to to uh to add or to ask? second. terms of the wing? Like what size wing is this on this vehicle? I believe it is on the proposed truck.

Yeah, I believe it's like a six foot wing. I um you'd have a uh you'd have a uh 10-ft plow and a sixoot wing. You'd be able to go in and out of the developments in one pass. Whereas the one tons, it just rolls over the plow and comes up on the windshield and the windshield wipers are going full blast and and and to get them done in a timely fashion, you have to go faster than you really would like to go to try and beat the school buses and get the roads clean before. Uh but I believe

it's about six feet. I don't I I don't know for sure. Uhhuh. Yeah. Yeah, I know that our big trucks there, we have some that are nine on on some of the older trucks, but most of them are around 11 ft. So, is that heavy duty enough to do things like, you know, cut back the banking? No.

Or do you still need to do you still need to bring in the wheelers into those subdivision roads later to clean up? They would clean the roadway, the pavement full width, but as far as pushing back snow banks, I would not use that truck. I would come in with a big truck the day after a storm and set the snow banks back if if need be. I I wouldn't start laying that uh the rams wouldn't be big enough to be laying into a mass of snow bank.

I'd be afraid of bending the Sure. I'm sure people would try it, but I wouldn't. Not when you got a big truck that can go in there the next day and easily set those back. So, can you tell us what the basis is of your of your number? I get an estimate from uh uh where they

the outfitter over here at Viking Surveys has several different towns that they're working on and I got numbers from them and the dealerships and that's those are pretty solid numbers. Are we have you ever done this state purchasing? Not the, you know, not like the used Donnie stuff, but the the Doesn't the state have some type of uh you can go out to purchase with the state when they make your offers?

Have you ever done that? Uh, I mean, other than I've done I've done fuel with them before. We've done a loader. Yeah, we've done a loader before in another town. Uh, on this particular I mean on on our bigger trucks. No. Um, and I can't remember. We've tried it and it didn't uh they had some there was something to do with their the way they spec their trucks that didn't make it compatible for us to join that.

Yep. Okay. All right. Um that's all I've got. I don't know about I think you did a great job answering my questions. Thank you, Calvin. I really appreciate it. Thank you. What about the other committee members? Any any other questions on the one and a half ton? And this would be an addition to the fleet, a new vehicle to to fill a need or what what Calvin says here is a need.

I have everything answered. Yeah, I I think you covered everything for me too, Calvin. I I I was I was um my concern um was that your truck was getting a little uh older and that um didn't know how that could fit into uh the mix of of shuffling people around and um whether the smaller the one and a half ton truck um you kind of answered the question about pushing back the banks or pushing any uh anything in

excess on that one and a half ton. Um, we still need the larger trucks to do that. So, I think I'm all set as well. All right. Thank you. And thank you for coming tonight. Um, and uh, also, you know, again, thanks for for all your efforts.

Thank you. Yeah. Keep up the good work out there, guys. next, uh, fire and rescue. What do you think, guys? Let me see if I can pull up the fire department replacement schedule. Welcome, Chief. Thank you. Um, okay. So, first we'll look at the schedule here. And I see some changes on the schedule from last year. And I I see you've got the new pumper um replacement of engine 21 in 2004 on the schedule.

2024. Yes. 2024. And you've got that costed at 625,000 in that. Yes. And then you have a you know uh you know as possibly as part of a placeholder and uh you know maybe at some point you can give us I I I understand there's a little uncertainty still with regard to

um the assessment to an with regard to an assessment and yeah unfortunately yes um I' I've been as you know I've been pushing for this since last year. Um it is really difficult for me to to give any kind of real specific in regards to um replacement year uh and honestly cost

as well uh in regards to apparatus until I really have a solid understanding of what I have and how long it's going to last us. And as I've expressed before, I feel that's best done with a third party assessment. Yeah. For a multitude of reasons. So, so there's a little bit of uncertainty there. It sounds like probably related to the the quint possibly in the assessment. What about engine 21? Are you pretty You mentioned earlier that you weren't sure of that that date.

Well, I I'm No, I'm not sure of that date one considering the the current condition of the truck, which is pretty good. Um, it is I mean that is that is a 20 year excuse me, that is a 20-year replacement schedule. That's what had been planned for in the previous uh the previous chief's um capital improvement plan, but once again, a truck in its condition, you know, can it last us a little bit longer? Um can we push that out a couple of years? I mean, I think it's a valid question, but once again, it's something that we we can't legitimately answer without without a real soup to nuts evaluation of the truck and the fleet as a whole. Um, I think that I think that when that's done, you'd see a couple of things shift on that list. Um,

now with regard to, you know, um, like the general maintenance. Are we doing that? Where is that being done? Just that's that's currently being done. Uh, it's in Brunswick. preventive maintenance. That's the word I'm searching for.

So, well, so it's a so it's a combination. It's it's um for the for the engine transmission for the for the pardon the term, regular truck parts, right? That's Mid Coast U Mid Coast Truck Repair right here in Durham. Dan T-Bolt is doing that. Um as far as the the pump and the fire equipment, uh the preventative maintenance, that's being done uh by Greenwood Fire Apparatus in Brunswick. That's who we're currently contracted with.

They do our they do our annual testing and any repairs that we need done on the like I said on the fire pump on the fire equipment side of it they handle that. And the pump numbers have been pretty good, you know. Yes. Yep. Yep. 20 21. I mean the 22 it's

rarely the pump that wears out on a firetruck. It's the truck itself. Uhhuh. Um, and in in New England, it's more often the the the truck simply corrods around the pump. The pump could last quite a long time. Uhhuh. Yeah.

So, so what are you, you know, based on what you know today, are you still comfortable? Is this where you want this vehicle? Do you want it in FY24 or for right for right now? Yes. until until I had someone with more substantial experience look at it and give me, you know, hard fact reasons as to why it could last longer, I'd want that left right where it is.

Yeah. How about the question about the year of the base quote? So, so the base quote, the base quote was actually done this year. Okay. Um, but that's a really um trying to find the right way to to put this. That's really kind of a a tossup.

Um, into a little bit of a false sense of what things cost um because of the cost of the new engine that we purchased in 2019. Um, the vendor actually honored the price that they gave us from 2015 on that. Um, yeah, that right. won't what um there's no way that we would touch um that new engine out there sitting out there now for anything less than 600,000.

Uhhuh. What did we pay for it? We paid $4.95. Oh wow. Yeah. Yeah. And the and the other piece of that is engine 21 is a specialty unit because of the built-in uh uh extra vehicle extrication equipments. That's our primary set of vehicle extrication equipment that has all of the tools that we need. Um, we have a very small backup set of tools um, uh, on engine 22,

but when engine 21 comes due, it's probably not something, we've talked about this before, it's probably not something that we would replace uh, with that same type of truck. So, it may be less, it may be more. It really depends on one the configuration that we go with and two once again what this assessment would provide us for what do we really need to be carrying? Um is there any other equipment that we we don't have that we should be looking at that we would tag on to the tag on to the purchase of that new engine.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So so that's that's the best number I can give you. But that like I said depending on you know depending on a lot of things that number could change in either direction. So Um so you you mentioned the special

ability to carry the extrication equipment. Yeah. Um, so if you were to really define, and not that you didn't, um, the engine 21 requirements and, you know, and split the pumper from the extrication gear. Yes. What would that look like? Well, honestly, the the newer technologies available, we would be looking we would honestly be looking for a um to purchase it with it because that is that is the that is the the more focused use of that truck, but we'd be looking at portable equipment, stuff that isn't tied to the truck.

Yeah. because right now when that truck goes out of service um we're pretty limited in our extrica vehicle extrication capabilities at that point um because of the very small tool set that the other engine can carry. Um, so we would we would it would be my goal to spec with that truck a new upgraded set

of equipment that's um a lot of them are battery powered now that we'd be looking at. But that could be if that truck went out of service for any reason that could automatically be taken and put on another piece of apparatus so we don't lose that capability.

looking at, you know, would that be could or could that be part of and I'm not saying pushing it out that far, but I'm looking at you've got rescue 25 coming up in a bunch of years here, but is there a is there a middle ground that you could use uh rescue with that apparatus? Is there a is there a you know larger unit that would replace that and keep engine 21 in service as a pumper only.

Um, so you're talking like a dedicated like a he like a dedicated rescue truck. Yeah. That doesn't have a pump on it. Yep. That's we don't we don't have the call volume or the or the specialty requirement to to need to add that piece.

Okay. Yeah. That's that's I mean for there there are there are communities like there are communities like Gray along the interstate that they have a a specifically dedicated heavy rescue vehicle that does just vehicle extrications, rope rescue, water rescue. Um

we we don't have this we don't have the staffing or the call volume to really require that addition to the fleet. Okay. No. When does this vehicle roll? Does it roll for every automobile accident? Yes, this is this is the this is the first due this is the first new vehicle for all automobile accidents. Um

and it's second do it's second due on structure fires. Okay. So the the the re and the reason why it can roll first due by itself is because it's bringing both the capability of the extrication equipment and if there's a car fire or whatever the need may be, we can stretch a hose line from it. Um, and that's that's kind of the way that truck was built to be a a multi- a multi-roll response unit to to be able to do more with less vehicles.

So, for an automobile accident, you would roll engine 21 and the rescue uh as a as an initial. Yes. If we if we needed more if we needed more, it would be the next engine or the forestry for traffic control or Right. Right. Okay. Um Okay. And uh Okay. So, I got a question here. What is What's the the Chief's vehicle currently?

That's my truck. That's your truck. It's your own personal truck. Yes. Okay. I get I get reimbur I get reimbured for mileage. Uh-huh. Yep. Okay. Um, some someday that would be terrific if we had a if not just for me, but just as a department utility vehicle like a pickup. Um, but I have bigger fish to fry right now. That's not even on my radar.

What are you do you have any trailers? What how about forestry? What What are we doing for What's Forestry? So, we So, we have forestry 28. That's um that has 300 g 250 gallons of water and all of our forestry equipment on it. It's a It's a heavy duty four-wheel drive off-road vehicle. Um that also that also has the capability to tow to tow the boat. So

Uhhuh. So that goes out with a boat. It it does, but it's not a um the only issue with that is that it's it's an extended cab, but it's not it's not a full quad cab. So we can still only carry at max three people in that.

Yeah. Now, why don't I see the forestry on the schedule? Just out of curiosity. Uh cuz that's not due to be this this was this is only 10 years out. So that was a 2011 purchase. Okay. Well, this goes out to 2045, but it it's out there ways. That's I assume that's why it's not on there.

Yeah, it's Yeah. And it's Yeah, I don't know why. Let's see. 1121 31. Yeah, it it should have been around the 2031 2032 replacement plus or minus, but once again, that's that's a truck that could probably last quite a bit longer.

Doesn't get a lot of use. Correct. Okay. Um well, not not not at the moment, but yeah. So, the I guess the only other thing I wanted to add related to the schedule is um you know, I I think I may have mentioned this to you before. I had a past experience where um the uh the

chief was saving for a vehicle. This was in another town and the chief was saving for a vehicle. This was for a utility and um the base number that we were using in CIP and that he had in his schedule was was a few years old and then the vehicle and you know he kept adding the appreciation. Um then it came time to purchase the vehicle. you know, the vehicle came up and we got to that year and it was reququed and the quote

was almost double what we had been carrying, right? And it it really kind of burned us and we we realized, boy, you really got to keep, you know, tabs on the costs related to this equipment. So, and it sounds like you were you're doing that. Thank you.

Yes. Uh um the vendor that we purchased the uh the engine 22 from is actually a town resident or the salesman was a town resident and I and I do speak with him regularly simply around you know manufacturing issues what's happening in the industry what a cost change is looking like he's been a a very very helpful resource for that so

okay all right so yes we we are keeping we are keeping an eye on Okay. So, because in the question that you in one of the questions that you sent, you asked how often it's being reququed to ensure that the 3% appreciation is adequate. Um, I've actually been figuring but uh what was referenced by that vendor was uh was 5 to 7% for fire apparatus.

Yeah. So, that that's where we're we're making sure we're staying ahead of that. Um, you know, I'm wondering if, you know, that maybe that's a discussion for another year, but if that 3% is, you know, even ac accurate in this industry.

Well, as as I said, what we what we've been given right now and and both from this salesman and from our current uh maintenance vendor, that that five to 7% is more accurate. Uhhuh. May, you know, maybe that's worth some consideration next year,

right? Um, but that's that's what I've been basing that's what I've been basing my numbers my numbers off. So, yeah, those are all my questions for the schedule. Do committee members have other questions on the the schedule? Fire and rescue schedule?

Yeah. No, that that covered everything for me as well. Okay. So then I think the next thing we have is a reserve request. Give me just a moment. I got to find it here. So very good. Um this is a priority rating two. It's a reserve request. The title is fire apparatus replacement funding. And again, again, this is reserve. And um the reserve account balance is currently $223,141

And it says uh this amount is to be saved and placed in the fire department reserve account specifically for future fire apparatus replacement projects. Um just uh one very minor point typo chief uh just so we don't get confused because you know we have all this paperwork from various years. Um the capital request the budget year will be 2021 rather than

Oh I I do see that. I did see that. I apologize for that. I was problem. I understand. Doing a little bit of cutting and pasting in the copy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So I'll correct those and forward them. Yeah. And then you go on to say that under justification, historically the town has not done well at saving and planning for the replacement of its apparatus. Years of defunding uh capital savings requests are not requesting approving required amounts leave the town with a financial burden of bonding expensive items that have a lifespan that should not that should allow us to adequately plan for their replacement. The cost of the most recent engine and rescue in the same year should serve as notice that we need a better plan moving forward as we have needs for other capital replacement items within the next three years. Airpack replacements and recent station systems upgrades have diminished the current reserve. I'm

requesting the current amount be allocated this year and earmarked only for apparatus. Regardless of what apparatus will be replaced, the town needs to begin preparing for this future now. Okay. Um is the project mandated or

required by law? No. Total estimated cost. Okay. So, um, this is really this one that 100,000 just an FYI should probably go in mount amount requested. You're requesting funds for reserve and my understanding is you're requesting a H 100,000 for reserve and

um basis of cost estimate recognition of significant and increased cost related to fire apparatus replacement. All right, very good. So, I'll just yield to you that same question that um we asked Calvin, which was, "How much unspent FY20 operating funds do you anticipating

being rolled into your reserve at the end of the year?" Uh right now, uh right now I'm looking at like 25 to 30 at the most. Um it was it was a little surprising honestly um looking at what I had prepared for the budget last year but uh the pandemic really kind of put the brakes on a lot of things here this year. Um and four four months of sustained no trainings, no meetings and limiting limiting, you know, staff response on calls to avoid potential exposures uh really had an impact on our budget. Um, so but I wouldn't say by the time we're all said and done um any more than 30 at the most.

Okay. H just out of curiosity, how does call volume compare this year to call volume is actually up? Look looking at looking at the numbers are are I have uh in my I know we're not aligned a budget, but I have in my own spreadsheet I have the amounts broken down between emergency and non-emergency responses. um our non-emergency numbers, you know, trainings, meetings, things of that nature, have uh I think close to $12,000 left in that one particular line, but as of the end of November, we had about $800 left in the emergency response line. Our call volume has been up, we're up 36 calls ahead of where we were last year at this point.

Uhhuh. Okay. And are those mostly rescue calls? Uh, I honestly don't have a specific breakdown for you right now, but that is that that's okay. Yeah, just curious. Okay, so um just want to flip here to the combined schedule

combined schedule for fire department and um let's see. So, new pumper to replace engine 21 703,440 basically what this shows is bringing the trying to get the balance up to 663,000 and change in FY23 in preparation for the purchase of that that pumper.

Yes. that engine that engine 21 and if that if that were to still go as planned. Yes. If it were still to go as planned and that that would be require um approximately $100,000 a year uh rather that be um from tax or from CIP but a h

100,000 or from uh or rolled. So, but those would just, you know, basically be funds that would go into reserve that 100,000 funds being put into reserve. So, now you say if it were to go as planned, um, and of course, you know, you don't have the benefit of the assess of having the assessment

unfortunately no. But is at this point, you know, that may change, but at this point, so can you give us any sense of uh, you know, alternatives? Um, alternatives would be for us to have uh a full inspection done by Greenwood um and and a full inspection done by Mid Coast Truck Repair as well. Um to give us their their best assessment on where things are at. Um, honestly, as long as

as long as the truck is still passing state inspection and passing its annual fire pump test, um, we could push it out if we had to. Yeah. Okay. Um, that's I mean, because that that's what was done with, um, with the old engine 22 that that initially was due to go out for replacement in 2015. Um,

and it just it just got to the point where it wasn't going to pass its next inspection and that was why I think we were really able to kind of push it through at the town meeting. Um, so it really kind of depends on the condition of the truck at the at that time as to whether we could could push it out um a year or two more or whatever uh if we if we didn't have the benefit of having the assessment in the first place.

Okay. All right. Great. Any other questions on the reserve? I I got one question. So, it's a it's a more generalized question. Um well, first for the chief. So, your call volume went up and and I I take it that was somewhat due to CO. Have you been keeping track of what that is in relation?

We we are keeping track of it and honestly it um I don't think it really is related to CO. Okay. We we um Yeah, I don't I do not believe that it is. It's not. Um they're they're Yeah, I'll just say no. Okay. No, that that's that's that's fine. I just just didn't know if we were going after any funds um in relation to

the COVID response as a result of any overages. I have because our because our EMS our EMS budget is over significantly. While while our while our overall budget is under, the EMS line is definitely over um by several thousand dollars and that's simply due to the amount of uh personal protective equipment that we have had to purchase.

No, that's great. No, thank you. Um give us some sense of the scope of that like I'm sorry, Chief Moore, if there's a request like a FEMA, if we get some kind of reimbursement from FEMA or from another agency. Yes, I I applied for a for a uh for it's a it's a supplemental fire act grant uh specifically focused on volunteer um and um uh combination

departments and we were we're our budget is overspent right our EMS line is over spent by about 25% right now so almost um uh almost $3,000 and so I have requested um a grant to cover what we've already spent for this year over I kept track of everything that we purchased that was CO 19 related. Um and then I asked for additional money to cover us into the coming year because I don't anticipate our um response tactics are going to change that drastically anytime soon. Even even if a vaccine is available, we're going to have to continue with the with the uh larger amounts of PPE use than we would have had.

Yeah. to that. So, thank thank you for that answer. That that that's great that you're keeping track of that and um and that there there's potentially money coming in to backfill some of the the um emergency calls um or the um ambulance

calls. So, uh, in relation to truck upkeep, um, you mentioned, uh, Mid Coast and and I'm gonna throw in Calvin into this. So, does the assessment of all the town trucks go through Mid Coast or or or does Calvin, do you do your own assessment? And then uh Chief Moore, you

do your assessment from a truck standpoint through through Mid Coast. I mean, is there any savings to do that in some combined effort? Well, we have a mechanic, full-time mechanic at public works, and u he does all of our repairs. Uh, occasionally we find something that needs uh that we send out, but for the most part they're all done in house. And I would have to say that he is completely uh up to his eyeballs. And yeah, he he wouldn't be able to take on any more work than he already has.

No. And that that that's fine. I'm just asking the general question if if if uh everything went down to Mid Coast for I'll say general repair. Um and then of course you had specialty repair that would go to Brunswick for the fire equipment. Um and uh now I was just wondering if there was any um u you know um uh joining of of that upkeep that

could be done that could um save the town some money in the long run. Um just as a thought for the future. would be I don't really see a benefit there because we have our own mechanic and he is much much less expensive than if we were to send a truck to uh to get it repaired. So,

Oh, yeah. I I agree with you. I'm sure I'm sure it is. That's kind of why I brought it up. Yeah. Okay. Other questions about the reserve request? Okay, then. If if that's the case, we're going to go on to the SCBA uh replacement request. So, this is a priority rating one. Uh

the request type says here that it's reserve, but you guys are looking to buy this equipment this next year. Right. Once again, I I apologize for that. That was I'm not sure how that came across that way. That wasn't intended to be reserved.

Okay. Okay. So, that should be otherwise that should be project or I think Calvin used another word. I can't recall what he used but um anyway project and reserver improvement. It's an improvement. Okay. Yep. Okay. As I said, I'll correct both of these and get you updated copies.

Oh, nice. Okay. We appreciate that. Thank you. Um and you've got your reserve account balances here. And it says which is uh 223141,000 uh description amount is to be designated from the from the or for to purchase. It should just be designated to purchase 10 Scott self-contained breathing apparatus SCBA and mass. And this isn't currently on your replacement schedule, right? It's it's not um because as I as I discussed last year when I um put forward the request for the bottles,

the bottles were the bottles were a time-sensitive issue as they were reaching their life expectancy by DOT and had to be replaced. Uh I was also um in the grant process for uh through the uh fire act grant to get all of the packs replaced um this year. Um, I'd submitted, this is the second year in a row that I'd submitted to have the packs replaced. Um, and as I, as I discussed at the with the group last year, if the if the grant was not approved, which it was not, then we would be at a position where we could no longer really wait to see if we got the grant again. We had to get the process moving to get these replaced.

And unfortunately, that's where we're at. It's this is the second year in a row of a very convoluted fire act grant process that uh was delayed. Uh COVID had an impact on it. Um a new a new uh a new computerized system for submitting the grants created problems for people. So there was a very compressed time frame again in which we um uh in which they ran the process and they just didn't find our grant as necessary as others that were awarded through the specific rounds and they only did eight rounds this year. Um sometimes they've gone into the 20s and 30s. Um so there was there was money left on the table and I was a little disappointed with that considering some of their other some of their other approvals throughout the state. But that's neither here nor there at this point. Um so we need to move ahead with with replacing them on our own.

Yeah. And there's only one thing that I'll point out here and that is that um we have here a replacement schedule and um the replacement schedule has values associated with it. So somewhere there should be a designated fund that's associated with that replacement schedule and that and that reserve that

fund that reserve should be used to fund the items on that replacement schedule. Um and I'm just a little um you know we start mixing things a little when we have you know I see you've got the reserve account balance here. Um, this looks to me like it's more of a oneoff and and it brings up the question of, you know, what is $1,000 represent? Does it represent all equipment? Does it represent only the equipment on the replacement schedule?

Well, this is lynch into our planning. And I just point that out because I think it's I'm not sure it's something we'll solve tonight, but I think it's something for you and the administrator um to really think about um and the selectment with regard to, you know, how these funds are set up and designated.

Okay. I guess I'm a little unclear on I guess I'm a little unclear on your issue, Paul. I apologize for that. But Sure. So that so that 223,000 that is the that is the fire department capital account, right? There's there's only one fire department capital account. There is not there isn't a separate one for apparatus as of right now.

Yeah. Um in the past the capital was treated kind of specifically as just an apparatus account or this is what I've been told. Um my viewpoint on it is is the fire department capital fund is for any fire department capital expense that would be tax that would be the well that would be you know when we got into the issue with the turnout gear you know this past year which we're now we're all set with and that'll be part of my operating budget moving forward and a and a rotating schedule to have that so we don't get to this point again.

Yeah. Well, what I'm saying is from the planning perspective, it makes it financial planning perspective, it makes it very challenging because, you know, here we've laid out, you've laid out a plan to put in $100,000 a year to bring the um to bring the reserve balance up to X. Okay.

Buy a fire engine, but it doesn't include these other expenditures that may come out for SCBA or for the for other items that aren't on the replacement schedule. So, okay, I I can I can see where that is that is a complicating factor for you. This is

that need needs to be at some point, you know, figured out. And so, I guess the way I look at this reserve request, and you know, tell me if I'm wrong, but you're looking at or what you're asking for is a specific amount of money to buy

um these 10 SCBA units. Is that right? Yes. Okay. So, this is a project and um these funds wouldn't be coming from reserve, but you're asking for the money to to purchase these SCBA units. Why would this not be coming from reserve?

Uh because you're asking for the funds for from taxation or are you saying it would come from reserve and from taxation? No, this would simply come from reserve. We have we have the money we have the money in in the reserve account to do this.

Yeah. and to and to purchase the the once again there's a total of 20 that we need to replace. It's just not you're asking to spend this from from reserve. Yes. Okay. All right. Yes. This this was this was not Yeah. This was not taxation.

Okay. So, the only thing that I'll I'll just say there is um uh you know, keep in mind that issue that I mentioned because from a long-term financial planning perspective, it makes it difficult because you know, we're saying that you know, or you're saying you want to put $100,000 in each year to reach this number so you can buy a firetruck,

but if we're also funding other things from that reserve, you're not going to reach that number. Even if we do that, I I do understand that. I see what you're saying. The other the other complicating factor that becomes kind of difficult for me to totally predict is unlike any other town department, I have income coming in from EMS revenue.

From EMS revenue and Right. And I know Ruth did make some approximations of that. She estimated 40,000 a year as EMS revenue. Yes. Um but it regardless, you know, that's got to be sorted out at some point. And that's I don't I don't think it's really this the committee's um you know, prerogative to sort it out. I mean, that's for the ad for the administrators for you guys to figure out and I'm sure you'll get there. And and and I'd say have pat, you know, I brought up the issue, right? But I'm saying have patience because, you know, we just started this whole process And I know last year didn't really go as, you know, I had planned or eyes really had hoped, but I think each year we're getting a little better at it,

right? So, it's something to keep, you know, uh, and I don't say it really as a criticism, but just as something to keep your eye on that, you know, as something we've got to figure out if we want to succeed at this long term.

I absolutely agree and I understand. I I think it's I think it feels like it's a little bit of a different perspective than the town or the department has functioned with before. Yeah. To cons to consider so many of these things so far out um in regards to a

plan. I mean don't get me wrong, Chief St. Michelle actually had a pretty uh pretty extensive plan in regards to apparatus, but replacing other items. Um I think that's kind of grown as this process has developed in the last year. So it's something that I'll I'll be working on moving forward.

Yeah, I hear you. And regarding the replacing the other items, you know, personally, I don't know if you have to get into that much minutia regarding schedule, but the thing I'm more concerned about is, you know, if we're putting money into reserve for vehicles and equipment or for for vehicles, let's say, you know, with these major purchases, um I you know, I just want to make sure we get there so that the money's there. I agree.

And so if you know, is there a need to you know, everything that comes out of the reserve goes on the schedule and otherwise there's some other kind of reserve. I'm not sure. I don't know, but it's just something to keep in mind.

Very good. Okay. So, um let's see here what else we have for questions on the SCBA. Um, you're asking us to approve this request with funding from reserve with the idea that it would not go on the warrant if you're able to roll FY20 operate operations funds. That's what your application said. Is that still current or is that

I need to read through that again. because it's not going the the cost of the packs and the number that we need to replace between this year and next year to get us fully compliant with 2022 when it rolls around and all of our current packs are no longer um in compliance. It seemed like a seemed like a initially I was trying to look at a way to um purchase some this year to maybe soften the impact on the capital fund for next year and the following year, but that's not really that's not really going to work out the way that I had hoped. So, I would rather just go with this process of

and roll that money into the reserve. Correct. Okay, got it. Thanks. Um Okay. So, I apologize for that confusion. It was in the time that I was prepping this, I I felt like I might have a little bit more of a more of a cushion or a leg up to be able to do that, but it's I don't think it's going to be what I anticipated. So,

yeah. Yeah. And uh Okay. And then I guess, you know, my only other comment is you you kind of alluded to this earlier with regard to um you know, getting in more to this is a new process. you know, we're starting with the the large items, the largest items, the really difficults,

but as we're in terms of the replacement schedules, but as we're moving along, um there are other needs, you know, important needs that are coming up like at the SCBAs and the cylinders. Um so, so the cylinders aren't the cylinders aren't the issue. The cylinders are done.

I know. I know. Sorry. Yeah, but that was last year. That was last year. Yes. Cylinders. So um you talked about you know some type of plan um you know I think still in my mind the concern is how do we keep all these things from coming to at once.

Yes. Um this is the the turn the turn gear the air packs this is this has been exactly the process of working with. So, actually, um, Adam Salves, one of our captains, had put together way back in 2017 a really wellthoughtout plan for replacement once we did this initial purchase and got these packs squared away. Um, and I and I'm going to continue to choose to go with the timeline that he had, which is after so fiscal year 21 and 22, we'll

purchase the packs that we need to achieve compliance and we're ready to go. From that point, um, every 15 years, we're going to purchase, the goal will be to purchase 10 packs and upgrade 10 packs based on what comes out with the standards, which change every four years or they get evaluated every four years. So the packs that we purchase basically can't go any longer than five revisions, which is 20 years. So at so at the 15-year mark, we would purchase 10 new ones and upgrade 10 of them to keep us fully in compliance. And then 15 years from that point, we're buying 10 new and upgrading again to kind of keep us ahead of that. But we don't have to do anything. And that also keeps us within that life cycle of the uh of the SCBA models not all expiring at once like they did in the last year or so. So then

that would go into the plan for every 15 years. We're going to budget x amount of money. We will keep an eye on what the what the uh the increase would look like over time with those. But every 15 years, replacing half and upgrading half keeps us in a proper rotation from there on out. when you look at your mo, you know, your largest capital, you know, replacement costs. Um, of course, vehicles is number one.

Yep. What's what are number two and number three? Packs are two. Packs are packs are number two. Uh, gear. No, gear. No. No. gear is not going to be an issue anymore because I have with what I've been allowed to purchase up to this point, I've gotten people compliant and now I've set up a rotation to where that will actually be absorbed by the current operating budget.

Uhhuh. So, next operational I I mean next capital expenses would be um facilities maintenance. Uh it's at some point we're going to need to, you know, look at, you know, a furnace or um uh an exhaust system for the trucks or, you know, an addition to the building or whatever. That would be the next that would be the next biggest cost that I see. Other than that, the majority of the the majority of the equipment that we have um and expenses that we have can be planned for well enough to be managed through the operational budget. If that's the case, chief, you know, maybe the thing to do is to think about simply folding in those items, you know, folding in the SCBA and cylinders and the uh you know, the turnout gear, folding them somehow into your your larger replacement schedule. So, it's not just vehicles, but is

Oh, yes. I I I am I am working on that. Yeah. So, if you could do that, then that that would be a huge help. Okay. Uh, I will I will work with uh I'll work with the town administrator over the next couple of weeks and try to give you the next 15 years of a view on what I think that looks like to add a little bit more substance to that.

Sure. Wonderful. I can certainly do that. Other questions? Yeah. Hey, Chief. Um, yeah. If on the 15year schedule that you were just talking about Yeah. um what um how many um like compliancy upgrades would you expect? Because you said every every four years the rules change.

Um so you're going to have what three iterations of rule changes possibly during the 15 period. Yeah. And then then you're right up on the the fourth one. Right. And and how many are grandfathered like you don't have to go do is there some rule of thumb there that

I wish I wish I had a crystal ball to tell you that. Um at the next revision they may you know they may say you know every you know every every SCBA run by the fire department needs to have three bottles with it. Great. Look right now the mandate is two. Um or or every you know every mask now needs to be night vision goggle capable. It's um this is one of those things that it was a fairly

it's a fairly simple piece of equipment, you know, 15 20 years ago and they have with technology and and expectations and some requirements that they've really grown to be a really a really complicated piece of technology. So there's there's only so much that I would be willing to um gamble on in telling you how long we could actually go before I think going any trying to go any longer than that 15-year time frame becomes we're we're pushing the outer edge of what we've seen in the past as far as revisions that would continue to work.

No. And that's fine. And I wouldn't expect you to necessarily go beyond the requirements unless you got a I'll say a feature that was um applicable to us um you know for that that either either having to pay for or getting it as part of the package. I would say yeah that would be that would be worth it.

Um but that leave that up to your assessment. Go ahead. Sorry. And I mean even even the the packs now that we're purchasing, I mean they're expensive, but they are still as pretty basic um as far as you can get. There there are packs that you could purchase with far more features that

we just don't have the necessity or the the the capability to absorb the cost of. Yeah. Um one other question that you did have, Paul, was about whether it would go out uh to RFP for the town through the town's purchasing policy. It would um but it would be restricted to specific uh to to vendors of Scott air packs um simply beca simply because

every department around us that provides mutual aid has the same type of air pack. Yeah. So while some places have chosen to do that differently, it makes working with other departments, whether it's filling bottles for them, them filling them for us, um emergency rescue capabilities and compatibility. I wouldn't want us I wouldn't want to get into the idea now of trying to shop the cheapest the cheapest ones simply because it may be a different brand and then we're kind of stuck with that idea of

so so you'd specify that in your RFP. That's correct. Yeah. Yeah. That great. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Other questions for the chief? No, I'm good here. Thank you, Paul. All right. Thank you, Chief. Yeah, Chief, thank you so much.

Thank you. Yeah. And uh I hope you have a good evening and All right. I appreciate it. Thank you again for all your service. We really appreciate it. Be safe out there. We'll do. All right. Fantastic. Okay. Um the next item that we have is administration.

I am here. Wonderful. All right. You're up next. This is a priority rating three. And I know we've already talked about this some. Um, and the request type is reserve. Project title is town office reorg. Um, and this would be the town office municipal account. The balance is currently

right? And uh description at the 07 town meeting, town voted against funding a proposed addition to town office in 17 rearranging the configuration of the existing town office was suggested with the challenges of COVID and possibly hiring a town manager. It is time to once again consider some adjustments to the facility justification. Looking into the next couple years, it's likely the town office will need more space, whether that means moving the meeting room, adjusting the size of the meeting room, making the storage room an office, or consolidating bathrooms to allow for storage and or an office. To begin the process, town should considering hiring someone to make recommendations considering the challenges and financial considerations. Okay. Well, you kind of answer I think the first question right there. Or one of the first questions is uh or one of the questions is what would your proposed next step be? Sounds like

you're you're proposing hiring someone. Um total estimated cost 20 to $30,000 basis of estimate uneducated guess and you are suggesting putting 10,000 in reserve this year. That's the request, right? Um and we go too far into this, I guess I should ask, do you what happens with, you know, with your department and unspent operating funds?

It goes into the undesated fund. It goes into the undesated. Yeah. So kind capital uh traditionally and I don't I haven't been able to find a town vote on this but traditionally it's come from uh the interest that we make on the accounts during the year. So the capital interest goes into the municipal capital account. Um and last year we managed to to make about $22,000 in interest. Um, and this year because of the interest rates due to COVID, we're only going to pull in probably about 11 or 12,000. So, really that $10,000 kind of makes up for that uh shortage on the interest this year.

Sure. Um, just for a general point of knowledge, can you remind me what month uh the town usually gets its audit? Oh, we get it in January. In January. Okay. So, you actually do you actually do it in January? Yes. Y Okay. Um, all right.

question is, you know, with regard to town hall, where are the vital records and property records stored in town hall? Are they like in a vault or No, they're in our our fire resistant room in the back. Fire I see. That's the fire resistant room. Okay. Yeah.

about you know this kind of reorganization of space? Talk a little more about the needs. Well, you know, our our our last code officer um had come up with this idea to turn that back office uh that back storage room into an office. And so what his proposal was was that we take away one of the bathrooms and and make uh it a single bathroom and then turn that bathroom into a storage area. Um and then that back storage area would turn into an office which would mean that we would need to put um windows in there. Um and he had actually suggested a a fire door as well, but I don't know, you know, that would probably remain to be seen whether that's a necessity or not. Um the windows may be egress enough.

Yeah, go ahead. Is this project primarily associated with working spaces or does it include things like um you know what do I know? You know, heating, energy efficiency, those kinds of things. Uh right now it's mostly working spaces. We haven't really thought about the energy efficiency or anything like that.

May maybe I should say working and meeting spaces. Yeah, the meeting seat and and this, you know, I have lots of ideas about what I think would work. Yeah. But um it'd be really interesting to see somebody who has some sort of background is I mean our meeting space

was small to begin with, you know, before COVID, but now it's it's ins it's not not able we're not able to have inerson meetings right now because of co because that meeting room is just too small. Um, and so we floated around the idea of moving the meeting space over to the Eureka and then, you know, we'd have to move some of the uh computer stuff and cameras and stuff over to the Eureka and we'd have to make sure we got internet and that that may happen. Um, but also, you know, now we are actually going to have a town manager and whoever that is um is probably going to want some space for meeting with people and doing that kind of thing. And my office right now is very small. Um, and so

my supposition is that this person would probably want to have a larger office. Yeah. Could you talk a little bit about, you know, your thoughts on timeline with regard? Well, I believe that the select board are kind of the opinion that they would like the new uh town manager to to do this. And so the town

manager should be in place probably the beginning of March next year. Um and so with that uh he or she or whoever that person would be would would kind of take the reigns and go from there. Mhm. Yeah. No, I was just I was just when I was we were in the last meeting when we're talking about this, I started writing down the number of people that you'd have in the town office at any given time. And you know, I came up with uh you know, code enforcement officer, the ad administrator, town manager, you got two clerks, and the tax collector. So, you know, there we have um

So, we have we have two ladies. Go ahead. So, so my position is not going to be so there's not going to be an administrator any longer. There's going to be a town manager. So, um, I I'm thinking that you're still going to need somebody to administer, but that's just my thought. I'm just looking at

I setups. Yeah, I agree with you, Joe, but um, you know, that's not something that really has been discussed. Okay. Um, I agree that in order to um have a town manager uh do all the things that the life board wants to do that they're going to have to have somebody at least part-time to help cover the window um and do the other kinds of things that I do.

Yep. Nope. I agree. And and that's kind of why I counted that person in because I was just I was just honestly doing body count on how many people needed to be in that office. There's that would make five. And then the assessor's in twice a month.

Um and then also uh the the planner used to work in the office. Right now he's working from home, but um he sometimes does come into the office. So, I assume that after COVID is um squashed. Yeah, we'll go back to that. Well, you know, then then I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna open it up to, you know, we we

the chief I'm sure has needs and I'm sure Kelvin has needs as well, DPW manager. Um, and then you've got five selectmen that come in and out on various occasions. So co aside, you know, you have no place for these people to actually

um do their work, say in a town office setting if they need to interact on a regular I'll say a regular basis, but even on a temporary basis for a couple hours to sit there and do some stuff and and interact with you or or the staff in

some manner. Um, so I I was just kind of going going through the various uh various scenarios. You got what two meeting rooms? You've got the meeting room at the town hall and as you mentioned the Eureka Center. I know the chief's got a meeting area at the fire station and then Calvin's got a larger area or small and it's not really a larger area. It's a It's a probably about a little bit bigger than the uh town office and smaller than the fire station area for a meeting area. Is there any I mean I I get it. We want to wait for the town manager to show up, but is there um you know, I'd hate to let the opportunity pass to put something in the budget this year in anticipation for the town manager to show up so that they actually have something to move with uh for a plan rather than wait until they come up with a plan and have to wait a whole year to vote in um what this new plan's going to be because I think it's I think we're

we're we're at an over capacity now. Um, forget COVID. Um, and and it's been that way for a while. You guys have shuffled a lot of stuff around for a long time and have done a great job at it and um and even your predecessors. Um so uh it's it's definitely been an ongoing issue but we should probably look collectively um you know even now the selectman now a

as a group to look at all the meeting spaces right they're all available at different times maybe even as simple as putting them on a schedule to have access to them to spread people out a little bit more during the COVID issues which I'm sure you're doing already, but just throwing it out there and and then and then look at that as a whole um solution to what we do moving forward because I'll be honest with you, I I I I see the town hall as being very small for what we're getting ourselves into in the long term future. Maybe not exactly short term, but um but something we need to start saving for now so that when we get to that point, we can actually expand appropriately and maybe combine certain things together. Th

those are all really good points, Joe. Yeah. And and I can recall uh sitting in many planning board meetings with Joe. Yeah. Really had a full house. And it's like, you know, you've got the applicant pretty much like right there at the table with you. There's there's very little space and often, you know, people out in the hall

with no place without a place to sit. And I think Joe's point about um the fact that staff has really done a remarkable job over the years making that space work. Um is so true. uh and the staff really deserve a lot of credit for that because that is that's it it it uh that's not a big space but but you guys have made it work.

Um so now I understand there is approximately 23,000 in the account now. Um it would seem that that could possibly fund a planning study to get things going. Uh but but as Joe says, you know, um uh we we probably want to be thinking about this as, you know, kind of this may be a longer longer term project and we we probably need to begin saving now.

other questions. Michelle, any thoughts or questions on this one? wondering and I missed a little bit about of the discussion of the people that you have there. I mean, are there any opportunities for remote working? And I mean, just in this whole co environment, I know myself personally, I've been at home since March and I think um you know, had to learn how to work remotely and I didn't know if there's any opportunity to move in that direction because then it gives you that space savings. Of course, you need to invest more in it and look towards that.

Yeah, it it doesn't work very well. So, the two ladies out front have to be in the office because they're waiting on people at the counter. They they can't work from home. Um, I can work from home to a certain extent. Um, but myself andor, you know, the manager in the future, um, you really need to kind of be in the office because you need to meet with people and you need to meet with the the residents of the town and be available uh to them. Um, you really can't just be on a computer at home, you know. So you could you could do a hybrid, you know, you could maybe, you know, work from home a couple days a week and then, you know, work in the office like three days a week or something like that. Um, but working from home is not really an option and not for the code enforcement officer either. Um, because he does the inspections and he just needs to have a place to to go and and that's where all

his files are too. All our files are actually, you know, paper files in filing cabinets, right? You'd have to head in the paper. Yeah, I there's definitely a need to be in the office. Yeah. Okay. other questions? How's that space currently heated, Ruth? Is that a Is that a boiler?

Uh, yeah. It's it's a you know, there's two furnace units up in the ceiling. Um Oh, okay. and they're they're run off propane. Yeah. So, you're envisioning that, you know, um what So, I does it sound to you like something like this, like a request for services, a proposal for services, that that wouldn't go out until the new manager comes. Um I think it would be difficult for me

to convince uh anybody to go ahead with that at this point. Right. Right. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So, um, this would likely begin after March or after the new manager is on board, but we want to make sure we've got the money there for that discussion with the manager and the the select board so that they can take that next step, which would be um some type of initial study

of of of the needs and of the space. Right. Okay. All right. Anything you'd like to add, Ruth? Not really. I think we covered just about everything. I think so, too. Yeah. All right. Okay. Very good. Well, I think u we're

in pretty good shape. Ruth, can you help us out here? When's our next meeting date? I don't have my calendar in front of me. I think it's the 15th, but um I can't can't you stop sharing because I don't I can't see my my finger.

Absolutely. Yeah. My my apologies. Okay. It's just I can't find my screen. Here we go. All right. So, our next one is December 15th. December 15th. Okay. At six o'clock. And that next meeting is for us to uh do some final discussion of the applications. uh talk about you know our impressions from the discussions with the department heads and answer any questions about scoring.

sheet to the committee members? if you could do that, that'd be great. And that way when we meet on the 15th, everybody will have the sheet in front of them and you know, we'll kind of all be out on on the same page when we get to that topic.

you're going to expect the department heads at? Oh, no. Uh, thanks, Chief. Just for the committee members, and I think at this point, you know, unless some other questions come up at that meeting, um, I think, you know, you guys are in good shape. you have answered all of our questions. Thank you very much.

Okay. Really appreciate uh your willingness to work together with us. Not a problem. I'll have a revised um copy of both of my sheets to you uh on Thursday morning. Yeah. And I Chief, I want to hear about Cub Scouts sometime.

We'll do. Okay. All right. Great. Thank you. don't know when I'd be able to get those sheets out to you. I'm I'm gone until December 8th now. Okay. Yeah. All right. Well, um I I probably have a copy. I can I can I think I can send it.

Okay. Copy. I probably have a copy, too, since I pulled together all the scoring. So, I'll check. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I've got another point of business here that I think is important to bring up um as in terms of just in terms of committee governance and I don't know if

we will if this is something that will come before us or not but we have had now this is our third meeting. We're going to have a fourth meeting and then we're going to score. Okay. So, we have at each of those meetings, I believe at the first meeting, we have Brian and you guys, uh, you know, I'm just thinking about how we handle the situation of if we have a committee member, if we were to have hypothetically a committee member that didn't attend meetings, but, you know, chose to score the proposals, should we um, you know, do we can we offer any guidance? Is there any guidance that we could offer as a committee? for example, that our hope would be if that were the case that if committee members miss a meeting that they would review the recording of the meeting.

Yeah, I would think they would have to. Right. I mean, how are they going to know all the information that we've obtained? Right. Right. Yeah. So, I would be concerned that they would be voting without fully having all the information if they're not reviewing those meetings. Yeah, I think it's really important, isn't it, that if we do have committee members that haven't attended meetings and they plan to vote that um you know, certainly, you know, we encourage participation, the most important thing is to come to the meetings, but if you miss a meeting or two, then I think the hope would be uh at least from my perspective that folks review the recording. So, you know, so we're all pretty much we all have had the benefit of the same information in making our decisions.

Yeah, I would agree. And is it defined anywhere? Is there a requirement to attend a certain amount of meetings to be able to vote? Yeah, I was just looking. I didn't see it. Uh policy. Yeah, not in the policy. It's an interesting point and you know it kind of gets back to this thing of kind of committee governance and committee bylaws

and that's something maybe Ruth could speak to. I don't know what Durham has for committee bylaws and because you know we Durham has a number of other committees where you could run into like similar kinds of things and some committees have like their committee specific bylaws probably like you know planning board or something like that if you're in the middle of an application and you miss a meeting. But, uh, Ruth, anything you'd like to add there?

You know, it's it's just pretty much done on a committee by committee basis. I was trying to find the the plan to see if it specifies in there anywhere. Um, and I I'll take a look. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, I think that's where we stand though is, you know, it sounds like is u, you know, there's no policy, but um,

it's important. I just like to recognize that it is important that we all have a chance to review the same information before scoring. Yeah. All right. Great. Agreed. So, December next meeting, December 15th at 6, Paul will send out the scoring sheet just to make sure everybody's got it. And um

or I don't know, you know, maybe we should Joe, do you still have the scoring sheet from last year? I probably do. Yeah, because I think I came up with the rough draft originally and then uh and then Michelle took it the next step. Um

that's the case, you know, I think instead of sending it to everyone, maybe it would make more sense for me just to say, "Look, if anyone needs the scoring sheet, please contact me." Yep. Okay. Um, so, uh, great. Well, I think all we need at this point is a motion.

I make the motion that we adjourn. I would second. Very good. All those in favor? Yep. And that's unanimous. That's I. All right. Okay. Great. Michelle, it was so nice to have you here. Thank you. Yeah. Glad I could join.

Yeah. Yeah. And Joe. Yeah. Thank you. And Chief and Calvin. Thank you. Calvin. Yes.