TranscriptSelect Board Meeting ~ July 11, 2023

sure ready to go let's go hi good evening everybody Welcome to the town of Durham select board meeting we have a full Quorum tonight and I want to thank Jessica Lamberg for uh filling in for Jerry's absence tonight excuse from this meeting I like all stand for the Pledge of Allegiance please

all amendments the tonight's agenda comments I see uh no public nobody from the general public here this evening uh old business we have nothing in the old business section and I'm gonna go right on to new business and Michael friendly Mike friendly so come on up sir how are you this evening good I'm like friendly run around Pond Road I'm here as a representative Royal River again and uh we had two uh suggestion requests one is

to put in a bike rack at run around ponds since there isn't any in uh I guess several people have commented that sometimes bikes are strewn here and there I sent a picture of a representative bike rack that Royal River makes it's basically a log with some slots cut out and some I.T eyes in it chain a bike too

um we would pretty novel idea actually I was looking at it that's really cool yeah not my idea of someone else's um so we would suggest placing one of those and I was thinking perhaps by the the uh the Outhouse there so it's not it's not near the cars um and our other uh suggestion was to I

guess Royal River had some picnic tables donated to it they're also sent a picture of them they're these bright blue picnic tables yes and we would suggest painting in brown but it's obviously your decision if you want them blue we can leave them blue um there are five picnic tables in total and I felt like two of them are not in good condition one of them one of them has two of them have seed issues that there's pieces missing from them where you sit and the top of one of them that's by in the woods is has the surface of it is showing its

age so we would our suggestion would be to take one of those two out and replace it with one of these new ones yep I didn't see these and paint it brown if that's okay with you [Music] go to me like talk about are we do we not talk right now we don't absolutely go ahead I'm done so I actually shared this post that Royal River had made in the on the all things Durham page um and there was a large consensus of people that um recommended keeping them blue I heard um I heard they were donated from Bruce's burritos yeah that is a business that's that's closed um and they also you know I think that the Royal River logo also has this this color blue in the Royal River logo if I'm correct I think it does have a blue yeah yeah so um you know I I think that if the general consensus is that people feel that it really needs to not be blue and should be Brown we're open to whatever you want um I

think overwhelmingly the people that responded to it really wanted to try to like honor the fact that they were donated by Bruce burritos and keep them blue so I just thought painting the brown which doesn't sound like there is

impartial to the color blue exactly yeah it was yes I have a concern over I mean I think it's very nice whoever don't even have a bus to have them other than that whatever color they chose you know I I preference I think yeah sorry I I think the only thing I'd say is just coordinate with uh Jerry and and maybe Calvin on the on the placement of the bike rack make sure everybody the two of them are good with that I mean I don't see any problem with what you're proposing okay I don't think we have to necessarily take a vote on that either this is nothing yeah the only thing I can do with bike rack is topless they're talking to Calvin so it doesn't end up where they plan to plow right that's right right I make sure everything inside inside the Rocks yeah I don't know if you look at the pictures there's a picture of the Outhouse abutting that so it's inside the rock so people are competing with the cars and I

think long term like Calvin would be the one that would maintain that um you know on behalf of the time if that's some coordination with uh with him and Jerry would probably be appropriate okay I can email them and ask them where they want me to place them yeah unless anybody feels otherwise I don't know I don't think again I don't think we need to is it intended to just have two or do you think it would be bigger than this it would be similar to that I think they I think Royal River also has ones that have four slots but I think they were thinking too okay I I just wanted to say that based on the last time that you were here and we were talking about the decking floor for the Trails um I really appreciate the fact that you included this picture because when I was thinking of a bike rack this is clearly not what the image was that came to my mind and so thank you for sending like an actual representation of what it is

that you're planning to do and I appreciate that a lot thank you yeah we really appreciate what you're doing thank you so is it is leave it blue is that the or is I I'd say yeah it sounds like um yeah okay it sounds like the consensus is blue okay

much River conservation we thank them again for their thoughtfulness and fruiting up run around Pond um okay Ellen Plummer we're gonna have a little download on the sign ordinance hello Allen Plummer code enforcement officer

people ask me questions all day long and someone called and said can I put a sign up advertising my thing I want to do I'm gonna have to look at the ordinance because I don't know so I looked at it and I said you could put it on your property if you want to sell birdhouses the question was about bird houses you can put it on your property if you want Subway houses but you can't put it other places other than your property unless you get a main State sign and you can get that through the state put it up tour allowed in Durham and those are official business directional signs or obds signs that's a part of the main traveler Information Services act which is referred to in our ordinance

I went to Jerry talked to George Dr Calvin what do you make of this he said I don't know it's confusing it says no signs advertising off-premises right that's what it says you better check with someone so I checked with MMA legal I talked to on the last page of my packet [Music] page seven Susan Pilgrim staff attorney for MMA

says no off-premise signs it doesn't delineate from temporary science it doesn't say it just says no off-premise signs that's what your ordinance says that's what it means no signs she said well in fact it doesn't say temporary signs are allowed so it says no commercial signs

which means no campaign signs but before I finish this sentence I would be very cautious about limiting campaign signs because you could get in a world of trouble very quickly that way seven talks about the read versus town of Gilbert in 2015. basically that determination by the court said pretty much any kind of content that you limit on signs is a No-No don't do that

science and I've I've contacted every person every company that's put signs out at different places and towns at the end of Roads coming across the bridge wherever it's not clearly on their property and said I believe you're in violation of our ordinance so I just want to let you know that and because I talked to the Masonic Lodge who's had been suppers here for I don't know how many years and they put signs all over the place which are not on premise signs I just said just know that I've told you about that but I need to talk to the select board because this ordinance is very difficult to understand it's very short but it's difficult and what I got the takeaway that I got from MMA was your ordinance says that no signs are allowed off premise and that's what it says and you're reading it correctly as you read this stuff those words matter a lot so they say no

off-premise signs that's what you need to go with but have your attorney look at this so I think probably the attorney has looked at this this is just one example of a difficult thing to comprehend in our audience one very simple example and boy if I spent a lot of time on it so everyone that has signs out there have been notified and I told them I was going to come to you and I'm going to ask the select board what would you like me to do with this and I do have a recommendation because this is just one example of an ordinance that is very difficult to understand and and I work with ordinances all the time and Jerry knows a good deal and George knows a good deal about that kind of stuff and we've disagreed about things like this it's not simple stuff I would suggest codification by a professional company for our ordinances frankly and I and that only comes to mind because we have or I think we might have

arpa money left over that would be a huge bang for your buck when it comes to a small town like Durham to get that done to begin with and have them go over it it's not a short process it's a lengthy process codification would make ordinances not conflict with one another they look at all the legal language in it and see what conflicts with other things and they don't step on other ordinances toes and get sort of duplication what I realized that one of the towns I've worked at previously was when I was in charge of that ordinance the land use ordinance I would make a move and change adjust something and inadvertently zip out a couple sentences boy did that change the meaning of this stuff and that mistake went out there and I've seen that I've caught myself making those mistakes so for a small town to have people that are in my position or George's position or people that may be here for three

years or ten years or however long they make those changes the next person comes in and they make those changes those could compounding compound and compound when you take codification and you have a company in charge of that stuff and makes ordinances readily available for residents they can look at their stuff online and see signs type in science and everything related to science comes up if it's not understandable me and Georgian the town manager lay people in the town have got to have a hard time understanding what they can do and what they can't do so I would like to know what you would like me to do about signs like today and several people have said when do we have to do something and when can we do what we're supposed to do because we want to I said after the 11th I'll tell you so so I'll I'll chime in first here just because I'm familiar with this ordinance because it's been the same for many years almost

over 20 I went back to the ordinances before I was even on the planning board and so this is not really changed in that amount of time it was made probably before I even got here into town and I even Alan and I are in full agreement of what the interpretation is on this I don't disagree that the interpret this can be interpreted a couple different ways the signs itself I agree that that it probably could be cleaned up some to make it easier for folks I think my opinion at this point is is that

the the folks in town can't go wrong by following the main traveler informational Act Services act it does cost money I do realize that I also realized that if we took on the signs ourselves we would probably put a fee and it might even be larger than what the state's asking for at this point um and so without going into the details of all this um you know it is probably something that we do need to go back to uh um our legal council to get a read from them as well to see see what if they agree fully with MMA I suspect this was written by them originally by MMA no by by our lawyers and

um probably I'm going to guess Mr Dan Feeney back when he was CEO is where this ordinance originally came from and I'm only only guessing at that but I I suspect um because we did have an ordinance change back right before I got in here back in 99 or

something like that it was it was quite quite some time ago but I'll what can we even do because if there's an ordinance I mean I don't think we have the power to say well we're not going to enforce this ordinance in town and I think it isn't a good precedent for us to say we're not enforcing an ordinance and picking and choosing because that can show that we're kind of overstepping our power at the same time you know personally I think that people should be able to put up the sign saying you know my business is this way especially if they are you know maybe it's their friend that owns the property and says yeah I need no problem putting it on my property as well so I don't want it to seem like we're like preventing businesses from being able to say hey business this way but at the same time I don't know what we even have the power to do in this situation in regards to that I will say that it is

a legal aspect of placing signs that if you interfere with a roadway or sight lines and you cause an action and if this is going to become a town that's why the lawyers need to really look at so so putting them on friends property no offenses is is somewhat interesting but it's really this is intended to prevent that from happening so we don't have an issue so and that's kind of what the Genesis of these sign ordinances if you look at the various towns in the area they all have slightly similar ordinances maybe not as restrictive but they all cite the state main Travelers and they all go back to having some type of ordinance some way more restrictive than us but um you know when some of them take it upon themselves to do all of it but still when you start talking about the roads it has to go to the state that's the only problem I see there and so again it's the first part of my thing there is

what do are we even within our powers just like work to do when it comes to importance enforcing I don't think we get to pick and choose which order we kind of have to deal with what we have right now right now I think what what Allen's done is is the correct methodology to at least inform folks that that they they potentially in violation and that we need the lawyers and give us a read um and again to see if they completely agree with mmas interpretation of this or or not and then at that point that would be the decision maker until we come back and and revisit the ordinance from a potential you know upgrade or

um you know along with the rest of the orders just if we were to go the arbor that would be a different subject to have a discussion on it seems like the person from MMA is saying that that it seems like our ordinance does address commercial signs so what about with that are you saying go to the town lawyer and ask about even that yeah because I think I think what what the problem is is that if an item B it says no signs advertising goods or services shall be located off-site I wish the related services are good to be sold or located it does have an exception Clause there but MMA is not acknowledging that in their write-up what's the exception accept is provided for in this ordinance section which would be the rest of it which sends you to the main travel information obds so because the way I read that is you can't have a business sign in town unless you fall accept in this situation which drives you to only official signs

so the way I read that is saying they can't put a business sign on unless you do an official business sign with the state exactly that seems fairly clear it is clear and um but they do they don't they don't agree with the exception clause in in line B and that's the problem that's with MMA said that they pointed me to the main travel information Services act which encapsulates the official business directional size so the way I'm reading it they're saying that when it comes to commercial science they are saying well refer you can't have commercial signs unless you refer to the state law and then the state law says you can have them on the official post that's how but but everything is a commercial business

bought one of you helping this room the first thing you have to do before you send it to the state is go to the local code officer he has to sign off on it saying that it's allowed and then it goes to the state and you have to pay a signed company to make the signs in the dot slash Department I think it's a Department of Transportation yeah it actually comes out and hangs the signs have to be within a certain intersection of your business so he's gonna be able to put them on your friends anywhere in the town they have to be basically directional signs within the vicinity of your business and they will they will place them they will they put them and they maintain them on town roads or state roads they maintain them if they get in trouble they don't maintain them if your logo gets worn off it's yours you buy the sonic yeah yeah and you update it every year you have to pay every year every year and

the cost is about 250 to 350 for a one of those signs that's what I've got for a quote and it's 30 annually to the state yeah to buy the sign yeah it depends how many colors the last one I bought was 155 . the question is about we have people who are putting up signs saying you know my business this way and I've seen them on Town there's other people having my intersection saying this service offer you know they look to their temporary signs just put in the ground is your question what to do about those signs I can tell you what the next step is because and I I you said what I thought you were going to say because I don't think you can pick and choose my next step is and I'll probably do this tomorrow

legal counsel says you can't do that you can pick and choose not to do that despite what the ordinance says I just want to make that crystal clear right right okay yeah yeah okay yeah I've heard that a few times and I've been trying to keep my mouth shut but yeah if if I I my my intent is first of all

what does what does the town want with this ordinance and then go forward and I just correct me if I'm wrong and that's fine when I'm reading through this right it says no signs and then and then it refers us to um the main traveler informational Services act right and then you specifically highlighted out the temporary and under the categorical sign and so

um there there's directional there's a there are the signs that we're seeing everywhere that are just advertising a business with no direction right and then there are signs where they're not specifically naming a business but they're pointing to a subject matter and and a direction and so when I'm thinking about the direction for travelers I do feel like those directional signs relate to this

temporary categorical sign which falls under the thing that our ordinance addresses and so I just want to make sure that when we're talking about we can't pick and choose I do think that there is a difference because some of those signs are specific for travelers and and directional whether or

not you know they're meeting the requirements in terms of safety and whatnot that's that's a different thing but then we also get down to the like outside of the public right-of-way and so if that's the case I just feel like that part of the conversation does need to be addressed also so the reason I put the categories categorical science in there and highlighted the temporary Sciences I was asked that specifically

temporary or permanent signs period those temporary signs are for our our purposes our campaign signs they're not other signs like are showing up on the streets of their room so that's why I highlighted that I just wanted to make a note we don't can you say that one more time we our ordinance doesn't allow any signs temporary or permanent the reason I highlighted that was someone asked specifically well temporary science say these things and it does say things that sounds like some signs are permissible but we don't allow temporary signs but and

accommodations and Facilities Commercial Services for the traveling public uh and points of Scenic historical cultural recreational educational and religious interests the second line of the legend may be used additional directional information such as the street name and so when I'm thinking about a service that is

specific yeah to me that reads like gas stations this way just like the logo yeah right I agree with that except this is difficulty referring to 1901 to 1925 and 1913a is in that 901 to 925. am I wrong yeah right right and so that's specifically referring to that and that brings in categorical and temporary as long as it's a business it's a direction for the traveling public right so I think that's where the picking and choosing I'm sorry that that might fall to you and I and I do agree that we should get a legal opinion about it for sure but I do think that there is a difference between some of these signs that we're seeing that are a service for the traveling public versus a service that people are just trying to advertise their business well into even going further there that had 1913a it does say types of science outside of the right away so it's like if it's on your lawn and not in the

public right away like if I put up a sign that says business this way on my lawn it's okay if it's on the public right away it's different and you gotta tie it back to the land used ordinance because if it's a business it's a home-based business and that's a commercial type business that we already have an ordinance for so the signs that we're talking about are all business related even if you point into the food stand it it's what we categorize in our ordinances as a business so when we get into well we just want to point here seasonally to you know get some corn that's a business and it should be registered in our town and we should have an application for it and the ordinance should then allow a sign out front and signs down the street and you follow the main State ordinances or the signs down the street right so it's not so it needs to be the same across the board there's no difference in the temporary I agree that

if it's more restrictive and restricting political type or those types of signs that are categorized as we can't really govern and they're only allowed up for so many days around the time that's in there right go ahead the easy fix for this just to

remove everything in subsection G after 1925. and then and then it calls then you can have a sign that that fits the statue and then we don't have this issue anymore right maybe yeah yeah and then the issue is whether the statute's Constitutional or not right which is something legal counsel can give which is very simple yeah eliminate everything after his highlight yes yeah yes and then it's any sign allowed under that out right and that gets rid of this whole question which is political signs Business Signs what's that solves our power right but like we can't eliminate an audience and so that's where it goes back to the original question is there even anything that we can do right now it seems like the answer is no that the ordinance has to be enforced as is and then but we can make a suggestions and say you know because there's a business that has a sign that's at a corner we should be

asking for a draft yes because there was a talk earlier about whether we need to have another special town meeting for our performance for something if one comes up we can have it prepared yeah and I think that I would agree that clearly we need to do something but it would be to ask for a draft or something like that

ordinance that's been in the books for over 20 years yeah and I I hate when all of a sudden we find this Eureka moment all of a sudden we come to this conclusion that you know we've been illegally operating essentially or not enforcing something for over 20 years and then we just want to hit the brakes as fast as we can

than just saying hey we're going to enforce this ordinance from here on out um I think this needs to be like Josh indicated some more research and due diligence with our personal attorney and I think in the time I mean we can drive by we can throw down pretty much any Street in the town of Durham and find some type of ordinance violation or a code violation we don't tend to do that so I think we need to put some more due diligence in this before we um move forward with anything so my only question with that is I I understand that there's the Precedence you know of and obviously you don't I don't think there's any use of great use of anyone's time to drive around and Mark where all the signs are that might be breaking the rules or whatever but what do we say to someone who's calling and saying so and so has a sign up at the intersection of these two roads right below the stop sign advertising their business I took

mine down because I thought I wasn't allowed to I'm not saying I disagree with the sign being there but what do we do for those people if do we say well for 20 years we haven't enforced to sign ordinance we're not going to start today I didn't say we're not gonna no I'm not I'm asking or were you saying you know we're working on it right now give us this year we're just going to make a big deal I think there's a couple like for example people that build houses or people that maybe um are getting a service let's say you're getting a new air conditioner yeah you put this in a lot of side street and they'll put maybe one in your yard and they'll put one maybe on the crossing intersection so the people that know that are delivering whatever go to that particular site maybe the electrician home builders are notorious for this they'll put it on a corner intersection and they'll put one in the front yard so people can find whether

it's the roofer or the whomever um I don't have a problem with enforcing anything but the problem is we haven't and it just goes it sets it to me for example if we have an election tomorrow we're going to let people put up election signs

so but our ordinance doesn't say that we should right right that's my point is pointed to the temporary signs during the timing the temporary so the temporary science it refers to that but but still they're not a lot right B doesn't allow it doesn't allow right yeah and you're but that Council said that

ordinance section and then in this ordinance section it says under the main why I said if you get rid of that second part right you're fine I agree with that yeah and I I agree with that you said what how do you enforce it but right you know I think the first thing we have to do is get a an ordinance as constitutional and then figure out you

know I think this is the case we don't know we we don't know what we don't know yep and I think we're opening up potentially Pandora's Box here I think we should get just do the right thing and advice of our console and say hey yeah I think this coordinates needs to be looked at and you guys should change it we recommend changing it to X Y or Z I'm going to shoot that up the flagpole so I I have a question can we put a temporary notorium on enforcing this or something like that when we realize there's an issue like this because we we don't know what we don't know but we do know that there's some element there are some signs out there right now that are violating the town ordinance and I don't want us to have this back and forth and then Allen leaves and goes I don't know if I'm supposed to tell them to take the signs down I don't know if I'm supposed to tell the person it's okay so what what is our Direction here can we say we

haven't enforcer for 20 years we're not going to start now but we realize there's a problem or do we and then in theory everyone puts a sign up everywhere you know we can direct Allen you know how to enforce the statue I think that's part of our I didn't know if that was because what what other like I thought that we were given the ordinances and it was our job to see them through not us to decide after the ordinances voted in whether we wanted to direct it to be enforced or not so that's where I'm just asking yes

like what Josh is saying is that if we know that the ordinance doesn't comply then we shouldn't be enforcing that if we know that enforcing it is not in compliance correct so yeah I mean I I think I think the directions go to Legal get the read and and yeah and hold on enforcement until we get that read I think that's the direction that that we need to go in and then I'm okay with that direction come back to us I agree with that I just want to make sure we're allowed to do that we're allowed to say we're not going to enforce a certain ordinance we haven't been enforcing it right I totally understand we haven't been so but in the meantime then if he gets some phone calls this week about it he's going to have to wait and say I'm contacting legal to find out and I'll get you in the answer in the next couple weeks and that's just the I think the way we have to have to go I just wanted to add one more thing to think

about board and I think that this is the answer to many to the same question for many different parts of our ordinance and so I would be interested in seeing some sort of proposal to have codification done um who does that and what that looks like in terms of cost I think that's probably one of the things on our bucket list to have done over time need to prioritize now just you might notice if you know my phone and panel just had this done what was approximately the cost

approximately so Mechanic Falls had it done I think it was seven thousand dollars for them I was going to say that I thought pound was eight I guess there are there are four or five companies that do it that I'm aware of I think a ballpark number is 10 to 15 000. higher ordinance package the whole thing done and it's not a not a not a couple of month thing it's a year or 10 is the number though yeah it's under 10. we can do that right I think it's over 10. yeah yeah so yeah what can we get for 9.99 you know yeah please and thank you

codify a lot of issues with that uh I'm not to say that that's not a good first step but as Alice said you know are you just codifying confusing issues it's not as simple as just typing signage and finding two or three references spread throughout it so I just thought so then is it more than ten thousand dollars yeah

so what I know is once you get codification underway and they go through the entire documents whatever they are they put those on to an Electronic Movement which is searchable online and then annually whenever you have legislative changes you either send them to them directly right after you make the change or

can they can put something in there that well this is the annual meeting so could you send us also a reference link to a town that does that or has that service available like you're so what you're saying is part of a Town's website is that a resident could go on our website and do that so if you could just refer us to a Town's website that we could look at that shows that that would be great yeah the legislature

done that thank you yeah like I said I think it's important thing that we do I just want to make sure we're not overstepping when we when we do stuff that we're being consistent and all that so okay I think if it came back like if we let's say it was seven thousand dollars and we do have the authority to authorize having this work done and then it comes back and it's like this is all way too ambiguous and we and you need to actually change this ordinance in order for it to work with this and this then that those changes probably need to go to a vote to make happen um yeah but I think that brings up would bring up a larger problem that's but still very important to address is that if we have ordinances that are hard to understand don't make sense and then we find out we haven't been enforcing them correctly for 20 years we want to figure out what that is so then we can start the process of fixing yeah I do want to

be careful I think our ordinances are not as bad as everybody does think I know that ordinances and requirements are sometimes hard to read for people I'll use the word lay people I understand we want to make them as simplified as possible but when you simplify something it also takes away what the real meaning of that ordinance is is no different than government requirements they're very specific and these are intended to be very specific and in a lot of cases people normally get a lawyer to go through a lot of this stuff it's not really not necessarily

intended all the time for a lay person to be able to understand it all it needs to be it Medical in nature so a little people just don't have that capability which is okay some people do and they can read through it so I want to be careful not to water it down too much we do want it we want it specific enough to be able to get exactly what the town wants out of the ordinance and not um you know not just to make it so everybody can read it either and I'm not saying that we need to water them down I'm just saying that probably important for us as a slight board to understand them all and enforce them correctly because where I see it as from public looking in you're saying well here are the rules of town except for this one that doesn't get enforced and then this one that does and then you know we have new people moving in so they say I read all the rules and I did what I was supposed to do and

how did I know that this is one that you don't enforce or this is one that you do so I'm not accusing anyone here picking and choosing which ordinance we enforce um I'm just saying it could be an issue for people the public if they're saying it's definitely an issue related to home-based businesses yeah and just that clear guidance for a new business that wants to start up or something like that's important to me besides great thank you Alex appreciate it thank you I look forward to that information coming back

good evening members of the board thank you for for seeing me this evening yeah for the record my name is John Talbot 636 stackpole Road in Durham and speaking of ordinance changes that is why I am here before you this evening to as you know we've been talking about uh what changes do we want to make to or need to make to ordinance or want to make and so the planning board and George and some of the Committees have been thinking about it working on it and I just kind of want to give you an update on where we are on those issues so the big one number one is uh housing and I don't like to use the term affordable housing because as I've said before that's not what we're going to do is not necessarily going to make anything more affordable in in Durham it may or may not so as you are aware of the legislature extended the deadline from a couple of days ago to the first of July 2024 so that bought us some breathing room and

what we need to do is if we want come up with something uh that would be take effect next July 1st or actually after the top meeting I guess it would take effect so um they gave they extended the deadline made a few minor changes we are still sort of waiting for the official verbiage of the changes from the office of Economic and Community Development but I think we've got a lot of the information we need to go forward and so some kind of General parameters are that we have a long pollen attempt for lack a better term which is really kind of George is the town Planter's time and so as we've been looking at the various issues that are before us it's a question of what can the talent planner get done and he's working very hard but he's Limited in the hours he's got what can the planning board do and we've talked to a couple of other committees commissions what can can we use Conservation Commission the way we did

last year with resource protection which I think worked at the end uh the process worked very well the appeals board and I'll explain why there's there are questions are concerned about that historical as well historical commission that's been an issue that's been bouncing around for I think two plus years so I'll kind of go through that and so what we think we've got is a plan that gets us from now to a town meeting that first Saturday in April the process being we're developing the changes during the summer and we'd be pretty much George on most of this stuff the town planner he's way ahead I think on a lot of this stuff he's put together some draft proposals for some of the changes we've got uh the various boards committees will look at it over the summer and then after the fall begins after Labor Day we'll start the What's called the public input process and those a lot of you attended our

meetings but back last October we had one on housing conservation had one on resource protection in December and so that's kind of a get the town's input get the residence input and here's what we think housing should look like what do you the residents think you know how do we tweak this we get that public input various Commissions in the planning board slash the Committees come back to the planning board sometime in January so this is what we think it should say and the planning board will I don't want to say it OverWatch but we'll be putting being involved with the various committees boards Commissions in the interim we put together a draft at the planning board we have a public one public meeting public input but not a formal public hearing we send you the draft article you all as you did with resource protection last year yay or nay on it or give us your ideas comes back to planning board for a formal public

hearing and which is I think seven no less than seven no more than 30 days before the uh Tom meeting that goes before the town meeting so kind of following is if you all were involved excuse me the resource protection thing which of course housing died before we got to those fast last couple of months so that's our plan so the topics and I you know I'll be looking forward to you know the attorney's opinion on signage because that's if you want to make changes to the orders that probably has to come back through the planning board and depending upon the extent of um the changes because we're pretty well tapped in my opinion I think what we're we're going to talk about tonight briefly is we're capable of doing it depending upon what comes if it's as simple as eliminating one sentence whatever it may be that's probably that it's never easy but it's doable if it's redo the signage or and so the partisan

first off I hate science and secondly I hate science accordances haven't been on the other side of all that so that would be something we take into consideration is how much of the lawyer comes back says start all over and do it before the town meeting that's that's a much bigger effort than what we're talking about so what are we going to uh recommend what we're going to work on this summer is housing and so George has got put some proposals together the planning board last night gave him feedback on you know what his ideas and I won't go into detail tonight because I don't think we're there yet uh on what we're thinking about on on any of these so but I'll give you you know so while we think we're going to have is something that meets the state rules but

it has kind of a Durham spit on it so and going back to if we don't do anything on one July 2024 we follow the state rules and so which are probably more onerous than what we're hopefully and what we'll come up with over the next few months so housing that's a that's a big one that'll be time consuming that has a lot of um we'll get a lot of feedback a lot of input from the town we heard a lot of good things we did that survey last year and what we think we're going to come up with is something that takes if you remember we did the survey in about 51 said uh make clocks bigger make it harder to do this about 50 per 48 said hey we really want to do it make it easier for our kids to come back or our grand or parents to stay on the property so we're going to try to tweak it as harder as impossible as that may be uh it'll never be a perfect solution but as you as we go through this obviously we'd

be interested in your input but that's a major input or a part of the planning board well we're also we've gone back to the town attorney about fees and I'm not a big fan I've got to say this the right way um what we need to decide is do you have I think you do but there's a question about if there's there's still a question for some reason if it's not listed in the ordinance now do you have the right you have the segment have the power to do that and there's a disagreement between me and maybe some others I think you do but as an example uh mailbox fee and if you want to tell me you have the power I'll stop right believe me didn't we get we have a legal we have a legal opinion on that

have the authority for that yeah so if we may do nothing then this is something still to be resolved in terms go ahead Johnson there was a second part to that though that I don't know if we got to the final answer which was which was the um [Music] whether in the ordinance you had to call out if your fee needed to match the ordinance exactly that was the more clarity that that was the one that is I'm sure we got the final answer on that but I I don't I don't recline my opinion is like you do but there's some concern that you don't but I I'm with you there but go ahead if the attorney comes back and says no you have to somehow list mailbox fees and this is the example yeah then what we'll do for the town meeting is we'll put together a list of all the things all the stuff right yeah that and then somewhere it will be a one-liner somewhere in the ordinance that says the fees are set by the town

meeting you know see the fee schedule yeah so that should not that shouldn't be a hard-on um so although I've already spent a lot of time talking about that tonight um Conservation Commission has said they would step to the plate as they did last year and help us with solar and sell ordinances we really have nothing in our ordinance so if someone wants to come in and do a solar project and there's nothing that we say specifically about uh solar standards and so how tall can it be what's the buffer how do you buffer noise apparently solar makes lots of noise and how do you do that kind of stuff and so and sells sort of the same way and so we would have right now it's up to uh knocking for use conditional use the board kind of says yeah yeah we don't like what you've done here you know we want more buffering whatever what we're going to say is you this is the buffering and you know if you're on 136

in a big old field maybe the buffering is greater all those details are to be determined and George on both this there are lots of ordinances out there that'll work in Farmington Auburn some towns have done good ordinances so I don't think we have to start from scratch the guidance we've given to the Conservation Commission is what we have the ability to do this year I think is come up with sort of what I would call the technical standards you know not how many what what size is the switch box but what are the setbacks what are the heights what are the how do you buffer noise aesthetic those kinds of things and so that's what we're asking them to do is is take a look at those things and so the later the next step may very well be where do we as a town want or not want a solar field to go and that may be a 20 25 more research

effort and I think there's enough two things one is there's only so many places that solar works either because of sun direction or the power line on stackpole I don't think can take a solar plant without a huge as an example uh investment but that that would come down the road we would still look at is it in resource protection you know is it next to a historic strike all those kinds of things would still be considered by the planning board um the next one is that came up sort of as a result of the resource is the appeals board and I should say that George and I have worked with all of the chairs of these these boards and George more than I so we've talked about these issues with Jessica and conservation bar Schneider on appeals um on appeals the cup the thing that came out of resource protection was our ordinance now says that if it's up to 30 percent uh if you want to do something to your use that increases

the the 30 so if you want to add a sun deck to your house in your in-resource protection if it's less than 30 percent addition the planning board approves it over that the appeals board uses it for these particular houses what we want to try to do is make it a little bit simpler so that if it's less than 30 so if you've got a 1500 square foot footprint and you want to add a sun deck of 200 square feet that would be a less than 30 the code enforcement person would do that and we're blessed with a good great code enforcement guy if it's over that then it would come to the planning board and it would take it out of the appeals board process at this point I think they're they're fine with that it appeals board and they would be willing to transfer that decision making to the planning board yeah they are so then more to follow on that and then historical uh commission we've met with uh Lois gilby Chesney on that

they've already done a lot of work on this and so they are uh I guess they made some progress on that I'm going to meet with them on at their meeting in August 10th kind of find out where they are and all that stuff and offer the assistance and and do that at the end of the day if any of these uh oh I'm sorry going back to appeals it looks like we may the planning board may take on this appeals changes as well and again that's been we're coordinating that with the appeals uh Bart Schneider and historical has taken on if any any of the commissions goes Rogue for lack of veterans are really really gets out there and we as a planning board don't think it's supportable when it comes to us to forward on to you uh we will hopefully never get to that point and we didn't in resource protection we work very well together and I don't see that changing but we're not sort of giving totally giving up the thing and of course any of

those anybody has the the I believe the right to write something up and and give it to you as a as a selection so I think I've quickly covered everything that's needs to be done covered if there's any questions and then when we're talking about that are we talking about the people that were there there were recent changes to Resource protection or this isn't a policy about people that just went in or came out this isn't this is a change that is that correct yes there are 35 that George has done a certain way he's counted him he believes that's 35 properties that are impact some were in resource protection uh others are newly added to Resource protection so whether I I've been in resource protection for 10 years or I've been in resource protection for four months but I want to add a structure and it's all this all we're doing is kind of Shifting who approves so we're not we're not necessarily so

you know if somebody comes in and says I want to put a whole new structure um and it's 80 of whatever exists we come to the planning board and then it's it's our and it's not neces a lot of factors impacting it is it already damaged for you know damaged property but I don't want to get in into specifics but it's it to answer your question specifically it's those 35 already we're in or just recently you said 35 you mean 35 buildings that now

have resource project because it was 300 something properties that had research protection but there's this we're talking the structures right so I was just clarifying that's what you meant when you said 35 properties yeah sorry there's 35 structures and the current process is if you are want to put in a structure of 30 that increases the footprint by 30 or less it's just you go to the planning board correct correct and that's just we have that framework 1500 square feet you can add 500 square feet the current structure would then be if someone says I want to expand my house by 50 they would have to go to the appeals board because they're appealing Bill permits and what you're suggesting is that the planning board would handle the appeal of the ordinance instead of the appeals yeah and yes petition so all it really does is it changes and I think uh I think what the appeals for the planning board is better suited to look

at manual appeals well not appeals but to look at whether the impact but it's an appeal of the ordinance you're you're saying I disagree with the ordinance I want to do something the orange so that's where I'm just confused as to why they said they wouldn't want to take that I think we pushed not going to pushed us the wrong turn we recommended these changes because it to us it makes more sense to have the planning board who's already looking at land use issues so so the rationale behind it is that in

terms of like going through a conditional use type review of the property because now there's resource protection or lack thereof um and so it it becomes more of like it needs to undergo the um standards what do you call them the things that you have to be able to is it yeah I mean yeah that part of it doesn't change right just because they come to the planning board it's not an automatic yes right right or it was you know but those are the types of things that you would be reviewing and the appeals board is saying they don't feel equipped to provide that I think they feel we're the better person to do that so but now it's early in the process and so we're going to develop them and so on so forth yeah I get I guess

problem with if you're not meeting the ordinance which you guys are charged with with looking at projects in relation to how the ordinance is written if you're going beyond that I believe it it has to go to appeals at that point and so I'd be careful as you're looking I get what you're trying to do to and I don't disagree that you the planning board is probably better equipped to look at the whole picture than the appeals board is um but I think the final decision and

this is where I think you need to split the hair the final decision needs to be the appeals board based on maybe what the planning board comes up with I think it's an interesting thing sorry but I think that's that you got to be careful there because you want to I'll say separate church and state there a little bit um and and keep that separation it is too distinctive things there's you have you the ordinance allows for a permit for you to do something up to 30 so when you get a permit in town most of the permits go through the planning board for the exception of the road commissioner stuff like that if you want to do something outside of what is allowed in the permit it goes the appeal appeals board because you're appealing it right it seems very clear to me that if you're trying to do something different than the permit you're appealing unless I'm mistaken the way it used to work is you'd always present the

project to the planning board the planning board would reject your project at that point and then you hit appeals it's not straight to appeal as you go yeah but again I think this is different in the resource protection and I think that the difference is that right now if you want to increase it 29 you come whether it's an appeal or not but you go to the planning board to do it the difference here is the condition I feel like we're talking about stuff that's not before us that is the way in the future and I I just putting

I will do that so having poorly done those um are there any other questions have you guys engaged at all with GP Cog about ways they can help with the uh ordinance because I know like at the last meeting where there's the public hearing there was some misunderstanding of what the current legislation was framing out whether the proposed ordinance that we that the town was working on at the time even met legal requirements there's a back and forth between a couple board members and the back and forth between a couple members of the public and I know that GP COG fully understands the legal implications of the ordinance and they will for free do presentations to planning boards or select boards on what the ornaments are how they line out and then there's also grant funding available for getting these ordinance written they're getting extra time from plant planners to help get their insurance so is that something

that's been pursued at all yeah we have do you talk about housing for the house yeah yeah the answer is yes they've not been I think it's the state there's a great deal of confusion throughout the state up until now I and I think that what we have used MMA to George's and we've run past all way back in the day these changes that we do have and thanks for asking because we do have MMA has looked at his broad draft changes it's okay that right as it's written now we they think it's within the rule so we've used MMA to to that extent and so does he have a few options that he's pulled together it's going to be another good question it's going to be one option this time so last time we had three vote on it the goal is to say present to the town this is the option in your first like if you were going to do a survey the plan is to put out one one option as a survey yeah and we'll just we'll discuss that and there's

yes rather than we think it got very confusing we and we also this is based upon what we heard on the last survey which is as I said 51 said we want to have more land if if it's uh you're adding extra single family homes the other said let's make it easier and I'm being broad general make this easier we want to make it easier for our kids or whatever to live in town so this this is a and every time you hybrid something it's becomes an electrical vehicle the charge dies out after 20 miles but uh

don't tell my brother-in-law I said that uh so I think to answer your question I think we've taken those comments we're not planning but there will be all ample opportunity for the public to weigh in on that process you have another question I just wanted to um just that as a reminder that we

this meeting tonight for your time counts um and so I talked to Jerry briefly about having a system to record this kind of stuff but this is stuff that we will we can get reimbursed for and I think it's important yeah and George is already tracking his hours they were already track you know lawyer time all of that is being recorded I think we get up to five thousand dollars yeah um but yes thank you that is we're already working they're already working on that

solar and cell ordinance um can you explain a little bit more what you mean by sounds like you're wanting to suggest that we break up the development of the ordinance into two blocks one that's worked on this year one that's worked on next year yes I think this year would be so if someone came into the town today and wanted to put in a solar project we have no standards on acreage we have no standards on buffers we have no Heights all those guys so if they you know I I use the word and we've had I guess inquiries about doing that so we just want to put something out there that says if you're going to do that this is what you have to buffer if it's a longer 136 or a stack bowl or boa Hill or whatever and it's a wide open field here's our expectation for a buffering if you're driving into Auburn on the left-hand side just as you go past penley corner there's a there's a big which is very hard to see because

there's a natural buffer there and if it's so I don't know if that was there before but those are the kinds of details we'd work on this year you know what would be the goal for the details for next year if we thought it was necessary to Define better where they might go so this year would be more so the actual ordinance design like this if it's this size it needs to be buffered if it's that size it needs to be buffered noise could potentially be um areas that are not allowed to have solar at all versus areas that's where we want to go yeah exactly yeah because I think that's a fair approach just to really figure out the not necessarily like this is pro solar corner of town this is the no solar corner of town but to say in areas outside of RP here's what the project would have to look like so I know that there's uh they could Google opportunity for the uh Conservation Commission planning board to talk with several

local municipalities developed because George has given a bunch of draft order it could be as easy as changing one Town's name to Durham at the top that would be my wish you know from a lot of these all right well thank you John all right thank you I appreciate it you have a great night appreciate you coming out okay uh manager's report Jerry is absent this

evening Jessica do you have anything to add we have one thing that occurred yesterday we were notified by the CDC that we had a confirmed case of rabies in town it was in a woodchuck um our Animal control officer has been notified I notified Chief this morning because okay thank you officer we have information about it on our website and we have poster shopping along great thank you and hopefully everybody was okay with that um

great thank you reference to the information that you have and you may or may not know do you know an approximate location no I asked it's not no they don't give us anything I know that would be helpful because Durham is large so yeah I would just say that if people are asking about it it is I would say it is likely the woodchuck got bit by something that had rabies so it's like likely there's something else with rabies in town but it's also likely that any given point in time in the town of Durham and wild animal that has hazardous so I wouldn't say we have you know put all the alarms out for this it's you know it's going to be there but remind people be careful with your animals I I'm I'm just curious and I mean I can even call the state and ask I'm curious if it was that like someone saw this animal presenting rabbit like symptoms or if it was just a random testing that the state does of areas to

try to find out where outbreaks might be would likely have been done think something okay suspect something of being rapid okay my knowledge of State doesn't drive around scooping up roadkill and tested for Raiders yeah I agree I had believe it or not I had some experience with this environmental about eight nine years ago we had my neighbor had a raccoon basically going to a party he was having attacked and they had defend it off in the baseball I'm sure I raccoon didn't do too well I was not at the party but in that area the local it's probably not a game board I'm a Christian model life officer came by and knocked on everybody's door in the street and said hey if you touch this particular animal it was kids please be advised so they didn't do some Outreach yeah because they did so I think most of the people that know about it it was in the gr or something probably I just wondered like in terms of like the like hand foot

mouth for example the state does track where outbreaks are and I wonder if the if the Rainy thing was similar to that or not but that I'm not expecting you to know the answer of that the beginning animal running around maybe you should just

match with the raccoon if someone has something in their backyard they think it's weird they shoot it they stop on it they drive it over whatever they call tested the people who need to know our contact but did you touch it oh yeah well my cousin was over okay I don't see this in a major concern for the town all right don't play I think all our moms told us that we were kids yeah I know all right thank you Jessica appreciate that um all right Union Church committee appointments I believe we had one additional applications

if you want to share that we could all look at it quickly and then we could were we going to discuss before we go on the members of the committee just sort of a um a rough direction of what their goal is or responsibility so that we can have that on paper in a recorded vote so that

they're not running rough shot over whatever they want we can sort of give direction we can do that do that really quickly I think we can probably come up with some outline I did look at pull it back up I did look at the um

on the website and I'll say at a high level it seemed pretty inclusive that if we want to do that um or just let us we can have a little discussion about that and go from there how's that well if it's if we already have it I guess there was there's been multiple discussions about us not having direction for the board so I'm going there now just looking at the Weekly News blast so what we had in the Weekly News blast

earlier [Music] it says here is looking for residents to form an Old Town Hall Union Church committee to discuss and develop a plan slash vision for this historic building um built in and then some details about the building so the duration is committed will run until a long range plan has been developed and improved by a town if you're interested you can apply so again it seems like it's the whole broad like bring us a plan this says run until it a plan has been developed I would I'm a big advocate for this yesterday tripwires run until the plans developed before you hit nine months and if you haven't got it done in nine months we need to re reassess the committee right yeah it's just one of those things you can spend every week and spend hours talking about what color paint could potentially go if you do this or that I just think it'd be better to build in a time frame by December 31 and we want a

present I want something done and if not we're going to figure out something else to figure it out I strongly agree with that one so [Music] um go ahead I would like to make a suggestion that we two advisory members that don't vote and one of those at least one of those be from this board

about it what do we have to do talk about that if I bring it up that way we're going to talk about that I think that might be mission is and what who all is kind of how many members are going to participate how many outside members for example of what you just said advisory members are going to participate that would be in

the mission of this particular [Music] committee per se this and I I think you've had issues with this in the past I think when select Board gets involved for members of the psych board get involved with a specific committee it always looks like even if they have they don't say a word in these meetings there's an influential part of them being on that and I think committees sometimes feel the pressure of a board member per se especially if they voice their opinion so if you were let's say you were on that board who said well I think it should be as an advisory member [Music] it's sometimes the office and I think you've shared that the past you don't like that yeah I get the most point I I get I think I get what you're saying though is that essentially maybe if there's someone there that's not voting to say we need to keep things moving we got six months here but I can also see the Optics of like oh did the board go

this way because Joe or the other Joe was the advisor you know so jokes you had you had brought that up and suggested that so what was your line of thinking in terms of in terms of somebody on this board being either voting or non-voting member on that committee when there was an odd even number of applicants we now have in mind okay okay yeah so we yeah so I mean I think my my thought on this is you've got a like evidence like been thinking about this lately but like four major um things to to think about you you've got your your building upgrades um you know just to looking at the plan that we want these folks regardless of who's on that committee and how we do that you get your building upgrades you get your codes you need to uh adhere to your your state and federal codes for Access you get your long-term uses that need to be looked at and then we need proposals so you don't need to have so

many subjects I don't want to make it too many subjects just we need the committee to focus on what we do with this building and then how do we upgrade it appropriately for those uses and then meet the codes along the way so that it's usable by the entire public that's Way Beyond I thought my vision of this was make a recommendation of what we do with this building do you give it away sell it move it well that's the proposal part right that's the that's at the end after you put those in those multiple categories you just indicate that I want all right well how does that benefit the town and that can benefit the town in a number of ways it can benefit monetarily um it could benefit from Services right people get Services by having that building or or something else I don't want to name I mean that's the whole idea of the committee is to come up with this plan actually lays that out for us on almost

like a menu type thing then the town can make an educated decision is yeah do we really want to keep this building do we want to go and and and let one of the Committees own that building later do we want to do other things with it do we want to move it down the street I don't know I don't know what the answer is I don't I think I think the I think it's wide open I think everybody has a desire to use that building in some manner but we need folks to put that on paper and propose back to us so that we can share it with the town as to what what are the items that we're proposing I think I think I think not doing the homework on all those items you you limit your view of the decision

on that I think that comes out of it Josh but I I so I don't disagree but I think you have to go through all those steps go ahead no you can disagree with me it's okay Heather um I would I would be I would definitely be interested in knowing the information and I think the public would be interested information in terms of what costs would look like for the building to be

um to be able to be used by the public versus what another option would be if it's an astronomical cost for the building to be used by the public exist to be able to make an educated decision I agree so I think that this is what we just tasked the committee with um you know you have nine months bring to us a recommendation and that's probably what you're talking about rather than getting in the details we picked the right people for the job and you know Diversified command there you let them get it figured out if they start going down the Wormhole and they realize it's going to be four million dollars to get this thing up to code or whatever that and they decide that that's what they think should be done they presented to us we accept or reject so I think that some of these details is that's why we're picking these people so I would just move that we create this Committee of an uneven number of people

to make a recommendation for the best way to use the Union Church within and make the recommendation within the next nine months 100 numbers is that a motion I mean I I do make emotions was there a motion yeah Rich yeah I don't I don't [Music] Do It um the only thing I would just give more um how the committee is structured as far as example we have nine applicants I believe now so maybe seven or voting members two are alternates or something of that nature I'd accept a friendly emotion friendly Amendment or so my mother shoes seven members two two two whatever that works for me Josh I run here what you have to say I can tell that you have something to say well I think we need to do you need to accept the amendment first I accept the amendment

the business in May and and would be that that we have the the committee in place for four months with the ability to extend it for two months to complete the the required goals that would just you know you know by bit to February 1st so maybe not yeah so are you saying essentially in four months they would come to us make a presentation and we could say that sounds good but clean it up a little bit over the next two months I'm actually thinking three months but that's just me yeah well that's I mean I mean yeah

because this could go on for years it needs it needs to be I mean you're gonna have to I mean what I Envision is this board's gonna go out and say here are options of what we can do with the building and then go out and get estimates as to cost not pink color and this or that or you know but this is what the cost is and then come back give us a presentation and then the five of us will say okay how do we justify spend a x number of dollars to repair this building that you know you know my parents are up from Florida and my father and I you know when I was kidding go to cities and just walk around and look at buildings my uncles and Architects loves old buildings well what do we do with that building it's again so you know that's what we need to figure out that's what they're tasked with making a recommendation um and and that should be able to be done three four months all right I'll amend

my motion to say I'm or that I move that we create this committee compromising of nine members seven voting two alternates to present us with a option to move forward in four months and then have an additional two months to get the remaining details per input from the slight board

okay in that two-month time does everyone else agree that getting public input before we would go to town I think that there has to be the option to have to get public input before we go to town meeting on a warrant question or budget question so their meetings would be open to the public and and so what I you know four months would put us you know at our first or second meeting in December and then two additional months would put us in the second first or second meeting of February yeah and then we could have the public meeting in March

so yeah I think that that two-month period is when that would come into play contingent upon what the recommendation is I mean if they say the recommendation is leave as is we might say okay we're accepting that I'm not saying we would but we accept that recommendation there's no need for a public input or whatever but I think based off what we hear in four months and we let someone else do the work because we all have other stuff we gotta do we then decide yeah this sounds like reasonable give this information get public input so the only other thing to think about when we're talking about the timeline is that this potentially unless the only question that's going out this time a question of what it's going to be used for is that if it has a budgetary implication to it that it has to go through the budget process so that's the only other thing to consider in terms of a timeline

budget process by depending up on the mountains right it would be a capital Improvement expectation isn't you know the we're going to vote a town meeting and this is what we're going to do it's a this is the proposal do you support it or not but what what what's would happen and then we'd go out and and I think whatever we do would have to be done at the 2025 town meeting I think okay yeah

that's I'm thinking on the same time frame public process we opened it up for people to join the committee you know they have the opportunity we got applicants they're going to be given a timeline they're going to get feedback so I think that that's the process up front and then we can add something in those two months and then figure out what to move forward but unless someone unless someone comes up and says I'll do this for you if you do it now of course I mean the exceptions the rule for that but I think I think you're right though we will have to take to the next year yeah so because the last thing you want to do on the historical building is look like you microwave the process right and we can't put the course before the cart I mean in the sense of like we don't know what the recommendation is going to be so it could involve Capital Improvement it could involve budget it could involve none of that so it's like

right how we move forward depends on what the recommendation is put on get the public to vote on the plan and then fund it the Fall Away you're 7-2 is just because you think it's going it's too far I mean both I mean first of all you typically do a board like that um you all have an alternate somebody might take a vacation but you're down to eight or vice versa so I think you know there were seven people that applied I'd make it a five with two alternates um so it's just it's just my opinion it's just good practice I agree with Rich on that I mean the two alternates and then it's can we move the ques this question and then talk about the applications after we can okay

you got this right and you guys can correct me so uh I've got a motion on the table to form a committee for the um Union um Union Church um committee for seven voting members and two alternates uh with a four-month duration uh with a report out uh with options for use of of of of the union

church and then we would have a two-month public input time time input before uh public meeting October the November meeting and January meeting would be the extra two months and I don't know I and I personally would like to put that you know but just be clear so nobody quotes as soon as I mean if it starts four months during August August September well I think it starts today right yeah so when the sky as soon as we can assemble the people and get them a meeting in time so it might be very in-depth I don't know what now I don't know what's going to transforms we don't know what they're gonna do right you might have to extend their commission right exactly so when we

it usable motion is is that what in this motion are we are we saying that it includes Financial I I my intent of the motion was in four months they tell us what they think should be done be done and then if we have additional questions about costs and Logistics and stuff like that they have that two-month period to figure it out so at some point it's like we can get in the Nitty Gritty of like figure this out figure it out like I say have them bring us something in four months and then we can give them a dip that two months of additional feedback and then they bring it to us okay so the use is get rid of it move it fix it that's and then we say four months from now so is that reasonable in a two-month time frame I don't wanna yeah I'm sorry go ahead please we got a motion we had a second you you we can't keep deliberating on this we either vote it down and start over or we will write it's that's one of the other

so we don't discuss once we already had discussions yeah the discussion and I then I read reread the motion and that's it we're going to vote that was about to devote at that point yeah I think what would happen so formally enter an End discussion and then that would solve the issue and then someone doesn't want the discussion just moved the previous question well we passed the discussion phase so yeah I didn't know we had left discussion it was a repeated the motion for clarification clarification I think Josh He said can we move right which is which is yeah I apologize no it's fine we just need to do one or the other right I'm fine you know we can have more discussion all in favor of the motion

right what I'm saying okay so motion passes next door in business is or we're still on the committee right so wait yeah I think could I would ask Mr chair if we could go into executive session because I think we need I mean if we're appointing the nine members do we need to appoint the seven voting into non-voting which is my my concern about that but so I think we need we do um while we go through the rest and we'll do uh executive session at the end as it is in the agenda yeah you just move this to exactly so I'll make a motion to move agenda item number seven oh two executive session to make the appointments

because we're going to take that out of order correct [Music] the way I understand is that we have executive session built in there and if any exactly the appointment today I think you can go into executive session anytime you need to yeah it's that's that's their way of personal issues

manager I don't think you'd have to be excluded for this no you can because yeah yeah but I think she's getting up to go shut the camera oh I know that yeah executive session I got a second from Joe all in favor in the usual Mana okay yeah we're going to the executive session to talk about Union Church committee appointments we will be back stay tuned

discussion yeah if the discussion is moving on and you're tired of discussion someone can move the previous question yeah but that actually requires a vote so you move the previous question and everyone votes whether to move the discussions right but in this particular one he started to read it yeah so all right we're back online

right no biggie all right uh we're out of executive session here and I'd like to uh no more Josh is gonna provide a motion here on our decisions yes I'd move I move that we appoint Neil Berry John Talbot Tyler Hutchinson

Emily Alexander Lois Kilby Chesley William Schneider and Paula Erdman Purdy as the seven members of the Union Church committee and how do you say her a lot alternate number one and tia Wilson as alternate number two to the Union Church committee that we've said and do I have like a Joe as a second all right any discussion further discussion no all in favor all right and all opposed that's uh carries with a full vote 5-0 all right that's great thank you thank you everybody

yeah definitely appreciate that big task here ahead of us here all right uh consent agenda um let's see I'll take a motion so moved proven the consent agenda second by Joe Josh all in favor of the usual Mana okay all pose that passes uh upcoming town meetings uh we have select board meeting on 7 25 uh and then um and on eight eight at the town office so the only two meetings to note um and we've already done executive session do I have a motion to adjourn

do I have a second Josh seconds all in favor we are adjourned don't leave until you sign