TranscriptBudget Committee Meeting ~ May 4, 2026

of you watching. We are Town of Durham's budget committee. Today is May 4th. Time is 6:30 p.m. and tonight we will be uh reviewing the select board's proposed budget for the year 2027. And by the conclusion of tonight's meeting and possibly a second meeting, we'll have our recommendations um either in favor of the select board's numbers or have uh recommendations of our own. We have a quorum. In fact, we have full attendance, eight members.

And would anybody I'm open to any general discussion uh people may want to have before we dig into the actual articles. spreadsheet and um Harpswwell's summary? I don't think so. Yes. What what did you call it? Harpsell's summary.

It was all in the same email. the three different attachments uh to the I believe it was was it this morning we got this? Yes. can get it. But I get yours. I didn't get anything from the slide board chair. I will forward it to you then.

Oh, wait a minute. Additional additional documentation. This was last night you sent it. Would have been like 6:00 a.m. this morning. Additional material request. I have a 5:1 p.m. Additional documentation. It was sent to select board. So maybe your addresses aren't in there. So who did not receive it?

I don't think I did. forwarded it. All right. So, Neil, I received it. Phyllis, you did or you didn't? I did. So, was it what we were looking for? What the documentation we asked for? Yeah. So, Jeff, did you get it? And Donna, did you get it?

My email is down. Actually, it's been down since the 30th. I'm not sure cuz I'm not seeing the harps. Well, I No, you're not. It's not a printed copy unless you printed it. This is an email that was sent out this morning.

No, I I printed all all the stuff I had on email. Okay. It would come. I don't think I I didn't. All right. What does it look like? I mean, just say it's a pretty PDF. A pretty PDF. Yeah. I did not see a PDF like that. Um,

okay. Then where'd it go? I don't see it. No. anything on the big screen. So, um, so it was the survey, if I understand correctly, that the select board based their wage table on or the HR consultant based the wage table on that she presented to the select board. Um the towns that were surveyed were Bath, Brunswick, Cumberland, Damiscotta,

Durham, Freeport, Harpsell, Richmond, Thompson, and Yarmouth. And of everything. Um they weren't just focusing on wage or focusing on benefits. they were focusing on the whole package in this survey which I I thought was realistic. Um

board didn't I just got the impression when I watched the meetings they focused on one section at a time but maybe in the background it was all the sections. Um, 50th percentile for town manager was $130,000. Public works director was $113,000.

Fire chief with us $17,000, but they also did the laborers as well, regular employees. So, it's something you I just emailed. Um, I don't see the attachment to either. Oh, bummer. Let me see how I can do this again. Um, let me forward Joe's email only.

I will generate a new email my my initial reaction is at least half towns they selected are significantly larger than we are with a significantly larger tax base. Yeah. Yeah, the information the information that was shared in this latest email is uh differs quite a bit from the research that Neil did um which I hope you received. He sent a table of towns that were within a thousand

population a thousand below to a thousand above versus necessarily their location. and they just looked at similar populations and their numbers were pretty were pretty different from what um this report that Jillian was just sharing.

And that's one thing that I didn't get a chance to do cuz I came directly from work was um hopefully you now have attachments because it's a p it's an email just for me. So Mr. Chairman, can I just talk for a minute? Mhm. So I didn't go to the meeting too many years ago you had was vacationing but uh my understanding was you talked about maybe a a flat increase on

uh departments recommending you didn't talk recommending a flat increase. We didn't make any recommendations. Two two meetings ago we simply came and had additional questions for the select board. Okay. So um my my approach for example on the administration was to take their wages from last year and increase it x% 6% whatever the percentage is we think we can agree on or would recommend and then deduct that amount from the total and make that make that our recommendation and other line items as well that might that might we might think could be reduced. Um, so the question that could be raised if if that was indeed the motion and if it was brought to the floor is where you how'd you come up with that percent. You're going to need to be able to justify whether it's 6% or whatever.

I don't think that justify 6% 7%. Most people get 3%. I'm I'm just trying to think ahead of questions that could be asked. So we we saw what happened when a select board member arbitrarily said I think 8% and was questioned and he really couldn't substantiate where he said 8%. So that's why I'm asking you if you're going to propose 6% or whatever number you might propose you need to be able to say where that number came from what thought process went into

I don't think it's going to be difficult to explain. I would say the average wage increase for most people last year was 4%. Three and a half%. The C CPI was up three and social security was three and a half% or 3%. I'm playing I'm just playing devil's ad.

I get you. I get you. But so someone could ask where you where how do you know that the average wage increase was 4%. I know. So can I join in? Sure. Um, that they want to get wages to be a little bit more competitive. Um, I don't think

in some ways it was looked at realistically. If you're the town manager of Durham and you're offered to be the town manager of Brunswick, like I you're not comparing potatoes to potatoes. It's a completely different job. Um completely different level of

responsibilities because there the government over there is so much larger. Um, and so even prior to having that information, I I agreed with the select board member who recommended doing the wage increases over a 2-year period. Um, and that's where I came up with my

percentage is we give them in a sense half now and half next year. you know, we get them up there by next year. Um, when you look at the information that they sent us, um, and again, I only looked at it quickly this morning, so I hate to be on record saying this, but my my initial like knee-jerk was that the um, public works was the most

offset. They seem to have the largest discrepancy. Um, so that led me to then think maybe it's not we do everybody half this year and everybody half next year. Maybe we look at departments and we say this year we concentrate on public works. next year we can concentrate on fire department and municipal um and maybe that would work. I haven't crunched those numbers to kind of see where we land. But my reasoning behind doing that is a couple of things. one. The

town accountant is recommending that we only um use 300,000 of our fund balance. And the town manager said with this current budget, it means next year automatically has a 5% increase. too. so that it's not felt as hard next year.

I have the wages, but I went with this general government and on the general government I brought it down $76,000 I only gave a 5% raise because they make good money. the towns aren't apples to apples and it's not saying what the real level is, but I also took out the business services. I took out 35,000. I left 10 in there for the

accountant to work with the budget if he wanted to at the end of the year. So the wages though with the wages that way I took out 26,000 took out 35,000 out of business services which is the HR and the accountant and the capital improvement that we were supposed to just put into the government was only $5,000. So, I took that out, too, because it's going to be a really bad, tight year. And we can see what all the other towns are doing. They're either they're firing people, closing up, doing whatever because the budget's out of control. It's out of control with the schools. It's out of control, and we don't know what we're going to get. And as far as raises go, I I'm sorry. He specifically kept saying, "This is what you get if you work for the state. This is what you get if you work for the state."

Um Joe last time. And so he's comparing state wages to state wages. Well, you're not going to get these wages if you go to work anywhere else except for the state. Um I talked to some of the people who get done here and they got done for less money, not more money. Um,

you talking about? No, I I'm just dealing with the general fund, the the the general government cuz we had to do it by article, right? So, that's what I was doing. As far as public works went, I kind of left that whole thing alone. I'm I'm with Joe on that. Public works has got the cemetery. They've got so much they're doing and I think they are shorted a little bit. though them I did leave.

Those who left, we didn't have anybody waiting, do we? Hm. You said those who left. Um, back along there was some that had left. Oh, not recently. The recent ones haven't there hasn't really been any argument on the recent ones except for the public works. Those are the only ones that have really left that could get more money driving a dump truck somewhere. Do

we know why the CEO left? I don't. No. what we will believe was asked was um do we do we ask HR I guess um do they have a discussion with people when they leave as to why they leave is it is it money is it management is it I got another higher paying job um and they don't so I think that's something that probably should happen. So, we don't know why they left. We don't know that it was just money

because there was no exit exam exit interview, right? I don't know if state government does exit interviews or not, but that information or no? Could we would they share that with us if if uh like the CEO our CEO left, if

they did an accident interview, would could they share that with us? Probably not. Yeah. Yeah. they could summarize possibly and say over the past five years these are the reasons we were given for employees leaving I would think that they could see you do something like that

yeah but giving it to a specific position a specific person no general government into that into that article? What I what is it? Yeah. The articles the articles that I'm aware of that are funding articles that we have to vote on would be general government public safety which would include animal control

public works which would include not only public works but municipal buildings solid waste talling uh and trash bin management and bulky waste day if there is one. Then another article will be on community services and there'll be an article on debt service and there'll be uh three articles on capital reserve. one for fire department, one for public works, one for municipal buildings, and there'll be a grants matching reserve article and and then a article to see how much

um the town will authorize the sales select board to appropriate from the general fund's existing fund balance to reduce the amount of taxes to be raised. This is what I'm basing this on last year's warrant. So anticipating that this year's warrant will reflect the same spending articles. Those are the 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 nine 10 articles that we need to address before our work is done.

So the general government, they only had two more issues. I wanted the text message in of 4,000 out of there. And the hardware, I took 4,000 out of that hardware. We've lived long enough without them each having their own little laptop. I think we can live another year with it till we can figure out exactly what's happening. So that's where I came up with the $76,000 to take out of that 88 821,000.

All right. Since you introduced general government, why don't you and we can then just see if anybody has has other ideas or additional ideas and that'll get us closer to maybe knowing where to go with this. So you're you decided that uh the amount the select board has recommended to raise an appropriate for general government is too high and you'd like to see the following reductions and if you want if you want to go ahead and list that

if my figures are right it should be 740. If you could break it down and then give us a total. Okay. I did 5 I only did 5% on the wages. So, I took the wages down to 141,286. 140. No, wait. It was 22. Yeah. 141,286. Yeah.

Okay. The unemployment was 3,000. I took that out. We've never used it before. Um, it was in there. Somebody said it was fluff. And I don't think we need any fluff this year. We'll see what happens. So, you removed that total.

Legal. I took out 2,000 out of the legal which brought it down to to 13,000. Okay. Reduced by 13 reduced by 2,000. Business services I took it down 35,000 and I left 10,000 in there. Reduced by how much? 35,000. It's you made it 35,000.

I took it out. Took out 35. 10,000. I left 10 in there. I figured the accountant could help at budget time next year. Can we let her finish a list and then I understand what you said. That's okay. Yeah. Um the capital improvement, as far as I knew, it was $5,000 that went into the

um Well, capital improvement or capital reserve. Capital improvement. The CIP. Yeah, we'll got to talk about that separately. That separate. Okay, then. And then the information tech, I took out $4,000 out of the text messaging

reduced by 4,000. Yep. Left a balance of zero. And the hardware, I took out 4,000. I left a balance of 3500. You took out 4,000. Yeah. starting point. How much was that? Did you say what was that? A total. The total happened to be

was it 70 76,000 I just rounded off that your reductions at are 76,000. Yes. But that was including the capital improvement in that was 5,000. So be 71 71,000. Yes. So you made 71 you're you you suggested $71,000 in reductions.

Mhm. Okay. Under general government. Right. Under general government. Okay. All right. So there's a place to start. So I welcome thoughts on her suggestions, additions to her suggestions or alternatives to her suggestions that will help our discussion.

Check me. Good job. Um, so I came up with a 6% increase for wages at 142,633 of 121 that made it 12135 was 7% decrease. Um, it made an increase to 7% in administration. 7% you said no administration total administration all I did was change% okay

so so I think we ought to do it by group by category so which I can do here but what do you mean by category well there's categories you got administration with the total you got assessing with a total, information technology with a total, planning and code enforcement with a total, and then you have total general government.

Okay. But our our vote is going to be for general government. In our explanation to the town, we could say it it'll probably be helpful to say how we got that number and do it by by line items, but we remember we're just voting on the on the very total. Yeah.

For general government. a number for what reason on the wages? Mhm. Because I think um everything I seen on social security and everything else was 3.2 and they took out more out of our us for insurance and everything. So I'm thinking the town is picking up the insurance and stuff for these people. And I thought 5% was a pretty good increase and very fair. Anybody

merg impression on going 6%. or leave it up to consensus. Either way, you know, it comes down to emotion, we want to be ready for it. so my opinion on this whole thing is I want to reduce the budget from what the what we were handed on the select board. I don't know the best way to do it because it's going to depend on who's at the time meeting. If we can get people to go for this, I'm all for it. I don't know who's going to be here at the nominating. So, one of the benefits I feel of coming in lower than the select board is

that, when you're at the town meeting, you cannot make an amendment to lower any line. Right? The only thing you No, you cannot. Not the way they word it anymore. Why? Not the way they word it anymore. You cannot amend a warrant number down.

Yes, you can. That's what only thing you can do. I've asked several times and I' I've been told that the way they are wording it now, you cannot. The only thing you can do is increase the amount. You can increase it. You can only lower it.

But in this in this particular case, you'll be having two numbers out there. You'll have the select board's numbers, you have the budget committee's numbers. I I think she may be correct on this because I'm reading the the way that these are written when when I was on the board of selectmen the uh articles were to see what sum the town will raise and or appropriate for and they've changed the wording to see if the town will raise and appropriate x amount. that kind of locks you in um

to only raise uh to raise an appropriate well actually what I'm seeing in this I don't know that you could actually change the it it's hard to say I I because I I mean it would be when it was written to see what sum the town will vote to raise and or appropriate, then you you could put any number in there at all. And I'm not so I'm not sure if you can do that with the way this is worded now.

And if if it has a specific sum in there, it would be an up or a down. I don't know what you would do if it was voted down, then what happens, right? I you have to Isn't it doesn't it stick to what it was the previous year if it's voted down?

No. No, actually it would if you vote it down and there isn't another motion um on that it ends up being zero dollars. I thought it deferred because you didn't you didn't you didn't raise you didn't vote to raise and appropriate anything for that line. Um, unless we have something written in our

one of the first articles in the warrant is if if nothing passes we reverts to Okay. If if if that's in there then that's yeah that's what would happen. Yeah. So what so what Jill is saying what you sad to say and then you you did went to a different thought and I don't think you finished it. No, my

the role of the budget committee was not the role but one of our options is to recommend an alternative amount given the town a choice between a higher and a lower amount and then you you started to go off. Well, my thought was is if the only thing you can do is raise it then I'm okay coming in quite low because they can raise it. the people that attend town meeting, if they want a number somewhere in between what we are offering and the select board is offering, they can make an amendment on the floor and make that happen.

Based on one of the first articles, I can look it up. Um, and based on what Jeff just said, if let's say the select board's motion for the higher amount got voted down, so then a motion would be made for the budget committees,

right? if that got voted down is when it would revert back to the previous years and vice versa. If if the that's the way it was when we had the COVID referendum vote, but I'm not sure if that was also based on the wording that year. The key there is if the dollar amount is specifically in the article and I don't know how you get around that other than we as a budget committee would be debating that if you go with

the amount basically that the selectman would want to have in the article that your taxes are going to increase x amount. And our argument would be we feel that that is too high too high and see where the town's people go and then then after that I don't know if they vote it down then what do we do is it only

so they have two they get they get to vote on on two numbers and and and which number they vote on first depends on who makes the motion that's the way things used to be no that's when there was no dollar amount within the article when when it used to be

but there's going to be a dollar amount. No. So, what it used to say is to see what some what some of money the town will uh vote to raise and appropriate for uh public works and then underneath it was select recommend this budget committee recommends that. But those numbers were not in the article. The way this is looking here, it looks like the numbers right in the article. And basically you have the option to choose this number, that number or not, or neither. But

how can you make it be? I'm looking at I'm looking at article 5 last year. Okay. So article 5 reads to see if the town will vote to raise an appropriate $1,143,60 for general government. And at the bottom it says select board recommends $1,143,60. And below that it says budget committee recommends 1,65,375,000.

motion and usually alternates. So let's say it's the select board's turn to make to make the motion. They're obviously going to motion for their motion their amount. The the vote then takes place. If their motion gets voted down, then someone from the budget committee will make their motion for the lower amount and hopefully that gets approved. If that doesn't get approved, Neil, I am not seeing in a previous article that it states um that it goes back to last year's. It's just my my understanding.

It's not here. I didn't see either. Yeah, it's my understanding from um what other what's h watching other town meetings that that's what happens in reading newspapers what's happened at other town meetings but we don't have it expressly stated in ours hopefully that

I believe it was expressly stated when we had the COVID voting though some of the other towns it's possible if they have a town charter it could which we don't it could be written into their town charter that way and so on. But if

otherwise if you basically if you have uh no yes vote on this article with a dollar amount in it, it should be zero. And so really is that so so to Jill's point, I think it's a move point because it's out of our control. Our role is simply, you know, come up with our own recommendation and if for some reason the town assuming no one can make an amendment anymore.

I don't think that's true, but I'll find out. Yeah, I think Yeah, I think before I vote on any final decisions, I want to know that answer. Yeah, I don't mind having discussions and maybe we can sleep on numbers. Yeah, we have two more meetings,

but um I mean, not that Google is intelligent by any means. Um, but it did state that um, when I asked the question, it said yes, you can generally make an amendment to change the amount in a main word article that proposes to raise an appropriate a specific sum. However, the ability to increase versus decrease the amount often depends on how the article is worded. Capped at versus open-ended, and amendments must stay within the scope of the original subject matter. And I don't know what definition of scope of the original subject matter means. Um,

Milton, your book, does it have any any of the articles that there was an amendment made? No, they all passed. Yeah, I don't remember last year's the only the only variance was us on the administration. Yeah, general government was the only difference

and and they amend that on article 5 and that they do list those separately. They I don't know if they will this time but they list the you know administration assessment, right? But we voted on the total amount. But I think if they show those amounts, they have to stick to them.

discussions have taken place that, you know, they if if we were to reduce, let's say part of our explanation, we reduced um the administration budget by so much. Well, within that within that administration is all kinds of line items,

right? Right. But I'm I'm I think this is right. I'm not positive, but within this if we make administration 750,000, they can't spend 1750 administration. Correct. But they they can spend something from assesses. So it matters what we put there. But if you look at it, we had two different numbers and the way it was broken down was not broken down on it's not our column in the select board's column. It's previous year versus this year.

True. Yeah. that they're like, "We don't care where you want to remove the money. We can spend the money any place we want to spend the money as long as we don't go over the budgeted amount." But then when you say, "I want to decrease it," they're like, "Where?"

Well, it doesn't matter where. You don't you can spend it however you want to. It doesn't matter where. No, it doesn't. However, it does help our case if we can justify it. Justify it. Absolutely. Absolutely. What we go through and say, well, let's cross a this off here and this off here. That's not binding it. But what what is binding is the final number and it's up to the select board to figure out how to meet that final number if it's less than what they had budgeted what they had expected.

But offer Donna suggested for explanation to me is important. So what you're saying really we need to explain why we're doing what we're doing. Yeah. It it it helps our case if we can explain Yes, Sarah. I would like to make some motions. Um, before you do, I just just want to

just unless I misunderstood Jill. Her feeling was maybe hold off on any motion tonight until we had answers to a couple more questions and Oh, some of these motions won't be an issue. Okay. Just just want to throw that out there. But I certainly open to motions.

we grow $624,111. Basically, we can argue you're going to pay for it. Trying to find it. Where's that? it's on the second page. debt services there. That's the exact amount. I mean, it's a specific one. It's undercategorized. If you're on the sheet,

it's going to be a specific article. All right. That's an easy one to get out of the way. It is. Can you repeat? I can write it down. Raise and appropriate to 624,1 624111. Correct. A second. Yeah, Jeff seconded. Is there further discussion?

is to raise and appropriate $624,111 and it's unanimous 8 Z. Some other areas I would like to address uh capital reserves. um before you do Alan I I really kind of helpful to finish one piece of business before going on to something else or some we had a discussion

all just kind of talking ideas. He's wants to make some motions. Yeah. But could we just finish with with one idea and then and then I was trying to get something. Yeah. Um so we were talking about um possible uh reduction recommendations for general government. Um I'm just trying to find

um with me. Well, Donna had presented something and she had specific figures behind it. You know, we could sit here and debate percentages all night long. I understand. I'm not necessarily debating percentages. I I might have something to add to it. Maybe somebody else has something to add to it. Um I'm looking for where where the um there was $2,500 that the um was budgeted for five tablets.

That's under hardware. Yeah, that's under hardware. And did you include that in your $4,000? Yes. Yes. Okay. Yeah, those line item code. Yeah. It'd be cool if they could work on trying to get a grant for that or something like that. Would they be able to?

And then um something else 206 that was on the hardway and where was the I think we previous meeting we talked about text services that was under what that's under information technology right it's it's the hardware text message

on page 11 on yeah page so hardware included the tablets and it technology included the text messaging okay thank you What's what's frustrating to me um don't think it's responsive um they've already changed certain amounts. I mean the department head for administration is in a contract Um the you know by the time we get to

town meeting the assistant to the administrator and to the public works CEO is already hired and I feel like they made a lot of financial decisions without thinking about the taxpayer. I think that they unfortunately had a little bit of tunnel vision in focusing on in in focusing on one thing at a time and not thinking about the whole scope of it.

And so one of the tricky parts is you know like for me I felt the department head didn't need to have that much of a raise this year. we can get you up there and if you don't want to be patient patient then yeah by all means take on the workload of Brunswick if you want to like um

but my thought was to decrease the department head my thought was to decrease the assistant to part-time which was recommended by one select board member and I thought it was very wise way of saving a lot of Um, and to be, "Well, they're already hired. What do you want us to do? Fire them?"

But, uh, no, nobody there is. I mean, maybe this year there'll be people that are quote unquote mean enough to do that, but in past years when it was only a visible 3% raise, though the in taxes, they said, "Okay, the select board decided to take on these incumbrances without without a town vote." Um, and

there may be some sometimes when you do that there may be consequences. Yeah. And um I mean I know when I was on the select board we tried to line everything up with the town meeting so that the raises would happen after the town meeting votes and things like that. We couldn't always do that. We had to do we had to do some things in the middle of the year but we tried not to.

Right. And uh they're they they've made these decisions and they may they may fit in the budget they have right now but because they tend to make the decision towards the end of their budget year when they have a surplus.

Yeah. But um Can I have a question please? Yeah. they they they didn't have this they didn't have the funds uh allocated going forward and if uh if they if somebody decides to go with the lower number the the select board h will have to figure out where where those ch changes are actually going to come from.

Yeah. Question for Donna. a chance in your um uh suggestion on wages, did it happen to include the decrease in administrative assistant hours from full-time to part time? No, cuz that's a separate line. No, the I didn't touch the department head, but I did touch the full-time wages cuz that's where I got the um 134. I took out just I did the 134 and put that at 5%.

something. Yeah. 141. But like Jill just said, you just you throw out you got to give a you don't throw out a figure, but you have something to back it up. But it's they can take it from wherever they want to take it. So

and we we're not obligated to fund what they want. Correct. Right. Well, yes, Phyllis. Is it even legal that these people who are being hired before town meeting to approve the budget, is that even legal as long as they have money in this year's budget to pay them?

Yeah, it's it it's completely fine. one of the people that they hired, it was stated because I was listening to the whole thing that um what happens if we voted out not to pay them that and it was said, well, this this extra money in payroll, don't worry, I got it covered. So, it's like,

well, they have an emergency fund as well. They have an emergency fund. Yeah. Oh, I know. And or miscellaneous. I'm still not clear. If it was to be this committee's recommendation that the administrative assistant be changed from 28 hours from 32 making it a part-time versus full-time. Would that affect your recommendation

on the said no? That's a different line. So is that something we would add? That's split between uh public safety and public works, right? So that we're in general government right now. If that was the feeling of the committee, then it would add to the reductions we've already discussed.

No, because well, I'm just dealing with just general government. Just says general government. Well, doesn't half of this position come under general government? It does. It comes under planning and code enforcement, which is under general government. It is not under administration, but it is under general government.

Oh, then yes. Oh, that's right. So what was your G? Did you know what your general government total was? My Yeah. What? It was eight. It was wait a minute. 841 8. It was 821 minus 76,000. I had it here written down somewhere. God only knows what I Oh. Um, the total government was going to be it was going to be 70 745,165.

cuz that didn't include the head. You said 741,000. 745. Did that but you subtracted out CIP from that. So if we add CIP back in, how much was CIP? 5,000. 750, right? So what it total again? Be 750. 750,000. But it would be even less if somebody wants to make a mo or somebody if we discuss the department head wage and want to put that at 5% also. So anyway, that's where we're at on that. The rest is all you guys go.

So if we want to take a crack the exacts on this, I can punch it in real quick and give you a number. Um, are we just talking administration or we talking the other planning codes? And do them all. So if it if it was so then we have to is there any further discussion are we is the feeling of this committee about reducing the new admin

position because we'd have to change that number and I'm also thinking that um under um% planning and codes it's not very much but again it adds up under dues and subscription I'd like to reduce that amount by $700 to make it a,000 just based on the last 2 years history of spending. The actual in 24 was 658.

The actual to date is 8.86. And I believe I asked a question that couldn't be answered. You know, do we still owe any money for doing subscriptions for this year? So, I'm comfortable putting $1,000 in that line versus $ 1,700. So, it's a $700 deduction. Not Not a Hill of beans, but

it adds up. Adds up. Can I make a suggestion? Why don't Why don't we start at Department of Wages and work our way down and see if we can agree on numbers? Okay. Yes. I personally did 8% per wages. Did you do 8% on I did 8% for wages except for public works department head. I did 8% for wages.

So 14* 108 um no because that didn't work out correctly. I thought I did the budget. I did um the 171. I divided that by 18 and then timesed it by 12 and then took that number and times it by 1.08%. So I got $123,450 for the department head for administration and it was $127,820.

you had cola and such, which was right around 3 4%. And then we're trying to play catch-up wages to get us closer to 50%. This was before I knew we were comparing ourselves to, you know, Brunswick and Bath. Um, so my thought was next year we could get the remaining percentage plus cola which would probably be like another 8% in all the departments depending on where COLA is at. So in my mind I was trying to split it 50% this year 50% next year.

Um, and then I agreed with removing the text my gov. Um, trying to remember we I think we have 30 close to 4,000 residents and less than a less than 900 are signed up and they sent out a total of 16 text messages. 19 I can't

19 text messages in a year. So 19 divided by 4,000 you go, 1900 households, something like that divided by 19. So that's $210.52 per text message, none of which were based on emergencies. They were letting us know the town office was closed.

Had we sent, we have like 1,600 homes. Well, I think they said like a little over 900 had signed up. I asked last year when the uh it was a two-year contract for 8,000. I asked how many because you can also opt out. So, are really 900 plus people still using that? They didn't have an answer for how many people opted out. They knew how many people opted in to sign up, but they didn't know for opting out. So, it may not be that many people after all using it. So, I I didn't see a benefit and especially when we're looking at over 13% increase, I felt it was an area. I understand you need 3 years, but wait until we're in three fluff years and you can give it a try again. Maybe the new people moving in and the old people moving out, they'll be more techsavvy and want the text messages. I don't know. Um, and then I recall from

the accountant that if we were to go with one of the selectman's recommendations of making the assistant, the admin assistant be part-time, 4 hours less, um, it would cost a total of $40,000. So, I took 20,000 out of general government and 20,000 out of public safety because they said they were split 50/50.

increase. And I guess it's helpful to know all of the changes that I will be recommending is going to lead to a 9.5% tax increase. unrealistic to see a three or a 5% tax increase this year. To see a 3 to 5% tax increase this year, especially with the county tax and the school taxes going up.

plugging in these numbers because it's it's going by too fast for me to keep up. I have my numbers of people. I want to back up my original statement. Let's go back to department of wages. What do we want? What we want from raise percentage should we should agree on that. I think I I'm okay with anything myself. I'll support any any kind of reduction. But

so you want you're asking department head wage. What percent do you recommend? I plugged in 8%. I plugged in the number you said. Okay. 123 and then 156 for full. Donna's recommendation was zero. I mean, not zero, but no change

for department. 5%. I thought you said you didn't change the department head. You only changed the full-time staff wages. Yeah. You didn't either. Yeah. But he his his needs to be changed. So you recommended nothing at the time. at the time.

At the time, right? Does anybody else have numbers they want to Well, I'm not sure we can do anything about the department head under general government. Of course, we can. He's He's under contract. Yeah. We don't have to give him the money. We give them the money. They They If they don't We don't give them the money, they can't spend it.

We can make recommendations. Yes. They're They are not going to change his wage. Yes. Right. Right. They'll find where else to take the money from. Yeah. Maybe. Okay. I mean, honestly. Yeah. Mhm. but they were recommending like health insurance be budgeted at the max just in case somebody quits and they have to hire somebody. So, right.

I don't know where like, you know, there could be areas within this budget that they can move things around. Is that an an option for them rather than pick the worst case scenario that a new employee or an employee changes their coverage to the max when they might only be taking out single member? Couldn't they? So if they don't have enough budgeted because someone changes from single member to full family, could they use that contingency fund, draw money out of that to cover their balance if they're short, if their budget is short?

Yes. They can move it within the lines. Yes. So So every scenario doesn't need to be worst case scenario. They they there's you could tie it in the middle of the road and they there's an option if it indeed is worst case. Meaning in this case of insurance someone changes from you know the lowest amount of insurance to full insurance.

How about 7 and a half% increase? How much was it? Seven. What did you say? It was 15. Okay. the town the select board recommended 15% increase for the O for the for the town manager it was 11 well right yeah it was 11.8 8 for Department of Ed, 15.3 for full-time.

Yeah. So, if we went 7 and a half% for full-time, that's half and we could do exactly what Jill was saying, half again next year. And we can do six and a half for the time or six for the time manager. So, you're recommending split it 50%.

Mhm. Okay. I think I think that's easy to sell myself. Exactly. And so if we do that then that's that's a 6% increase 156 198 for the fulltime weight whatever you want But 156 what? 156 156 198 for full-time staff at 7 and a half% increase.

So based on that, my question is little bit before I got the email this morning. I was thinking across the board, everyone gets a raise, but we get them up to that wage pool over a 2-year period. um public works is where they're not they're losing people. Um

that's a different scenario. Yeah, totally. Yeah. Do we want to concentrate on giving them the discrepancy on average is about 11%. well I didn't do it yet, but it's ranging from 10 to 23.5% is the discrepancy. So from what

from current rate to what the select board wants to raise them to. Um the fire department is a little more skewed because they already hired their EMS at the raise at the price that they want to be at. So it we don't really see where that's changing except for the fire chief. Um which they want to give a 17 and 12% increase. But so to me kind of looking at the percentages you've got

me do it real quick. Well, we don't have to make everybody the same. We can do different. Yeah. Right. Well, I guess my thoughts is is if I'm going to be laying heavier raises in the public works, I'm going to do leaner wages every place else to make our bottom number still be about the same.

that far below towns our size. So, I'm okay with a smaller number, but we have to convince the town. I don't think it's going to be hard to convince the town. Nobody can afford to pay their taxes as it is along with their house payment along with insurance payments and everything else that

Well, I know. But you can still There's fluff in here. there's enough money that they can switch back and forth and still survive and still run this town. So the um public works raise pool would be 19% versus 11% and 8% for the other departments

um by you or No, this is the this is the um the sheet that we got from Joe, we got from the select board what their current pay rate is and what they're they are budgeting for this year. part-time wages and full-time wages

in public works. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so again, I'm probably the most feeble-minded here. It makes it easier for me if we were to stick with one department, one article at a time. But I can't do one department, one article at a time because I need to have at least a basic idea what the big picture is.

I understand. So if I just need to be clear, are we switching? We have been discussing the article regarding general government. Are we switching our conversation momentarily to the big picture or do we want to finish the one discussion so we can move on to another? Do we want to finish the discussion on reductions we might recommend regarding general government and then move on to another article or I just need to know where what where we're going with this.

I want to finish German government. I agree. And we don't have to we don't have to vote on it. We can just correct. We're just listing our recommendations and we can go back and and when it comes time to public works we'll that comes under the big picture.

Okay. All right. So you were listing anything you some additional you started by going additional recommendations under general government. You had mentioned department head you mentioned planning and codes department head wages full-time staff wages. Um,

so Donna, you need Donna mentioned jumping it too. Unemployment for $3,000. Removing that. I think that's what's next. Yeah, you took that. Where is that? Unemployment. Line 12. Yeah, I see it. Delete it. She's saying delete it.

Okay. Line 12. it. It's like a She mentioned reducing legal by 2,000. So what's after that? Uh legal reduce legal by 2,000. Legal is 15. Make it 13. I'll be honest. I'm a little hesitant to do that if they are going to have to figure out the old town dump this year.

Yeah. But that's if Well, they have to figure it out. There is to figure out myself. If they're going to sell it, they might not sell it because of the conditions underneath. I don't think they own it, do they? They cleaned it up.

No. No, they don't own it. They cleaned it up. They capped it. They I don't know. They cleaned it up. It's not It's not capped. It's not cleaned up. It's up for sale. I thought they cleaned it up. No, they took out the tires only. According

to the town manager, they were concerned about whether it's contamination in the water. I think I might agree with Jill on that one. That would be a good one to leave. We can find 2,000 someplace else. I say so which has $50,000 in it.

spent 4,424 police. No, 8,500 84. Um, just shy of 12,000 has been needed thus far this year. We can always sit here all night and debate the whatifs, right? Yeah. And we're not going to get Let's make a decision. So, let's leave it in for right now,

right? And earmark it as another. We could come back to it. How's that sound? Business services. Donna, you said what? I said take out 35,000 out of that. Leave him 10. You're leaving him $10,000. Pay him to do for the accountant to come in with a budget.

Where did you Where did your 30 What added up to 35,000? They're asking for if you take out the HR person because he's got a new book. She's helped him. They've done the job description. It should be done. Do you remember how much the that person gets paid?

I don't care. they were going to,000. I'm leaving 10,000 in there for the accountant to do the budget at the end of the year or help do the budget or help with some questions. By now, after this many years, the accountant should have all the chart of accounts in. They should know what they're doing. And that's where I'm putting it. I'm taking out I'm leaving 10 in there.

I would say if we're going to do that radical number, we got to make it 20, not 10. It's my take. That's pretty big reduction. to respond to that. I don't know if you can do it's it's tricky because the explanation that they gave as to why they need to keep an HR person. Um, I couldn't I

personally didn't understand why that couldn't be a town manager job dealing with employee discrepancies or disputes. Once all the pay schedules have been created, created, which they have, and the policies have all been written and they have accepted those. So, what does an HR person do after that? And I know what you're saying.

My my understand my assumptive understanding is if somebody comes in and says I want FMLA, they say go talk to HR. If somebody comes in and says I need a personal day, go talk to HR. Well, the the HR in those cases should be the town manager.

And that's that's kind of my concern. You know, if they go if they go in and they say, you know, Mark's picking on me, he's pulling my ponytail. Go talk to HR. Like, you know, or cut right off, you know. So, um, you know, so that's that's where

and I kind of feel like if it if it does get more severe than that, like sexual harassment or then I think you got to get to legal, then you need to talk to legal, not to HR. And I specifically had asked the question, what was the HR salary? And they couldn't couldn't answer.

They wouldn't answer because they said that she's on stipened. So it's it's so much per hour and they're estimating how many hours they'll use her. So I'm not really opposed to the accountant services because the cotton seems to have done a a a great service to this town um in getting our numbers to where they're supposed to be, getting everyone to understand the numbers starting right from the top person on down. So,

I like that he's publicly being heard. Yep. Uh, you know, we hear him say, "I recommend 300,000. You guys are choosing five." You know, considering we're, you know, it to me if if he's doing some of the work that was originally thought to come under the um responsibilities of the town manager. Um, it seems to me if if we're okay in recommenda in recommending a a smaller wage increase for the town manager, I don't mind us um budgeting for the accountant.

I think his services have proven to be have really been helpful, beneficial to the town. I think he's been here long enough. If you look back in October, I think it's October 14 of 2020 when Kevin Nu was presenting this whole idea of switching the town manager

form of system. That was one of his big things was we were going to hire a town manager to take over the accounting. He would know TRIO. He could do human resource. it was going to relieve all these different departments and the town manager was going to be able to do this

and now none of this happened. So I think the people voted on something that they didn't honestly know what was going to happen. So that's the past. The present is perhaps the current town manager does not have those skills that we were originally hoping would would come with the addition of a town manager. So if that person doesn't have those skills and which is I'm I can only assume why he reached out to contract the services of an accountant um and it met with the approval of the select board then it is what it is. So

so is the accountant going to keep just helping us from now on and be on staff until we have a town manager who says I don't need an accountant. I I I can do this myself. Why would he do that? If I had somebody wash my floors, I'm not going to do them myself.

No. If if we hire a new town manager, that would be again the qualifications we would be looking for. And okay, if with a new person. Oh, I I mean I have to being a business owner, accounting information in my opinion is very detailed, very specific, and multiple layers. I mean, the number of times I reach out to my accountant and ask him questions, I've learned the art of it now to figure out where he where he charges me a lot, where he charges me a little. But, um, but he's answering questions that nobody else can answer. When it comes to the

reason why I hired a hospital manager is because I suck at babysitting adults. If he pulled your hair, then why didn't you punch him someplace? That's, you know, which isn't the correct answer in a workplace, but that's the way I grew up in the playground. Um, and you know,

so my manager was hired to be somebody who understood that. Does she understand FMLA? No. But are there resources within the state of Maine to help you with that? Yes. Um, you know, so so far when it comes to HR, I have found workarounds in my business. I have found ways of reaching out and I realize I'm a private business and it's public government, but they have, is it MMA?

Yeah. And GC Pog or G Pog? GC. Um, you know, it seems to me like they have a lot of resources. Um, yeah, you want somebody to help with a handbook. Okay. Maybe in general government you can't call back and say, "Hey, can I have a copy of your handbook?" Brunswick. Hey, can I have a copy of your handbook panel? Hey, can I have a copy of your handbook? All right. I like this out of you and that out of you. Maybe you can't do that. That's what I was able to do in my private business.

The handbook's already been created. Yeah. Right. Right. But I'm saying I can understand why you might reach out to an HR person for a handbook, right? But that's already been done, right? Um, so I don't think $10,000 enough for account for accounting. That's all I'm going to say.

Well, do we do we know what we're currently paying him? Do I think that question was asked? $40,000. That's what we got last year. How much? 40. Yeah. Thought he got 30 last year. No, I I don't think so. cuz fiscal year to date in 2024, he got almost 31. Fiscal year to date between HR and accounting January of 2025

to December of 2025, they got $30,000 together. 12 month actual is $30,000. And that's January 1 through December 31st, right? I don't know when HR came on board and started working with them without the Tom meeting. Yeah.

Yeah. Right. And I I would venture to guess that most of Mark's billing hours have been in the past couple of months when they've been working on the budget. So they didn't work on a budget in January of 26. Yeah. from last year if 20,000 was for HR services for 18 months and obviously the balance was what was paid to Mark.

Oh, you have that in your notes. Mhm. Say that again. So last for our last year's budget which was an 18th month's budget $20,000 was budgeted for HR services. Yeah. And then the the other amount the other amount would have just so 45,000 was 18 months

because we did hire them in July and we gave HR in July a check for $1,000. So they were hired back at least back in July. Yeah. I I mean I suspect if you look at 2024 he got 31,000. My suspicion is he's probably going to get at least 35,000.

on about 10,000 to HR. number to me. Put some pressure on. They're going to spend they'll take it someplace else if they have again and looking at the spreadsheet. So what would the actual for 24 was 30,800 that was before we had an HR person but we we had an accountant by then

right what was budgeted for 18 months this present year was 65,000 and 30,000 has been already been spent right but like Mark pointed out they didn't do a budget in 2026 six That 12-month period that they're showing us. I really wish they'd showed us what we were actually at now cuz

yeah, it would give you a better idea of the numbers, but you did I'm sure Mark probably build some hours in 2025, but I Well, you still you I guess it wasn't as much as he's billing right now. Well, you actually had to do the budget for 2026 20 or 2025 2026 in 2025.

So January through March that he was probably we did do a budget. Yeah, we didn't do we did work last winter. My so long ago we forgot. Yeah, it's it's this year that we we didn't actually right spend anything until now.

Right. But to the point the account ought to be more efficient. you should be using him less. If we said $30,000 to the account and $5,000 for HR, $35,000 is to me a fair number. what are we agreeing to move on to? We're talking about business services.

Rather than your reduction of 45, he's recommending a reduction of 10. No, it is 10. Okay. the reduction that would be Oh, the reduction. Okay, that's what they're suggesting. Okay. And that would be for to uh a reduction in services by the accountant, but definitely still um using his services

and a reduction in HR with just a small amount if needed, right? Because she's not doing big projects like she did in the last 18 months. other recommendations through total administration. Um subscription. No, there's it tech is that that's different.

Yeah. Yep. So, what's your total Neil for total administration? 577 684 577 684 which is a what percentage? 7.2% increase. 7. 2%. Thank you. versus versus $592,624 Y I don't recall hearing anybody make any recommendation changes for assessing.

couple people recommend not paying but the text messaging services that was 4,000 and so that's zero now y and hardware there's a little bit of discrepancy in the amount of hardware I believe the select board tablets was $2500

the tablets so that would drop it from 5,000 to 2500. But I think somebody else made a recommendation. Donna, what was your amount? Um 4,000. No, it's 7500. 7500 start. It started at 7500, not 5,000. Right. Oh, sorry. I'm under my copy. I already took out the 2500 and tablets.

So, what is my going to be? I don't know what everybody else is agreeing to. What What added up to 4,000? other way and left from 3500 to deal to do. Right. So that total 4,000. But how did how did you come up? What what did you take out to add up to 3500?

Well, I just didn't think they needed the tablets. Right. So that's 2500. What was the other thousand? in 2024. Supposedly, they only spent 1,600 last year, right? No. To date, that that was last year. That's January 1. It's not actual year to date. It's a mis it's a miscommunication as the header. If you recall some of my questions,

some of my questions this last week, I was using the actual year to date and was told that it's there was still bills to be paid. Correct. So that's not a true number if there's still bills to be paid. It's through December 31st.

Yeah. It's a they left it there to show a 12 month, right? But it could be higher. We we can't say that's what they spent because it's already it already could be higher, right? Even if they doubled it, you know, it's we don't know what you know. I don't remember if that was one of my questions or not.

Just Neil won't know cuz he left. All right. I got to I got to change what I got to I got to back up a little bit because I realized I was on the wrong page. The chief Oh, thank you. Just out of curiosity, what was the purpose for the titles? FOA paper.

If there's a FOA request, they everybody can hand in their tablets and less printing, right? Instead of printing, I believe the warrant, they would all get it on their tablets. There' be less paper. Oh, so so it's for selectment tablets. Correct. Okay.

Each would get a tablet. Yeah. So this number changes because I was looking at my copy, not the select board. So, the select board is recommending $68,340 or a 12.9% increase. Say that again, please. Yep. 68,000 608 608 340

340 for a 12.9% increase. And ours is 577 684 for a 7.2. Yeah. Okay. I was on the wrong spreadsheet, so I gave a incorrect number by accident. So by reducing see so by reducing IT technology I what did we reduce to zero under IT technology

text messages text messages right sorry and what and what's hardware going to be hardware we're still debating discussion at the town meeting saying we decreased it to 5,000 to postpone the select board meeting tablets. We would appreciate them trying to get that through a grant

um or at least postponing it to try and keep this a little leaner is a good argument whereas we can't back up another thousand very easily. What are they else planning on buying with the hardware? Did you take notes on that? I did not. It was It's kind of always been a placeholder of about $5,000 just in case a computer crashes or a printer crashes, that sort of thing. It's been a placeholder.

the answer. I believe they say they typically replace at least one PC each year. Didn't we talk about hardware being or making a reserve for it? Yeah. And they said it's too small of a number. I I'm comfortable saying 5,000.

So I have total it is 71015. 71015.1% a negative 1.9%. Okay. Versus the town was recommending $77,515 which was a 7.1% increase. Increase. Yep. And then so planning and code enforcement looks wonderful because the full-time staff wages is down to zero which I find kind of interesting that they didn't split out public work salary because if

if we have a repeat again of him stating it's too much I can't do it. have you doing? We have no leverage of decreasing his salary. It's a recipe for disaster. Oh, actually actually there is there there well there well yes you can decrease his salary but also

um it's not as clean. If you have to go and rehire a CEO, there's money in here. You can you can get rid of the admin, right? you shouldn't need the admin anymore. So, I think you know I think it would I don't know again the way I think if I say

all right you're going to be receptionist and the office manager and you're like I can't do both. Okay, we've hired a receptionist. So, you got two salaries. Now, that one's going to receptionist and you're saying manager. It appears cleaner versus when you look at the public works department head increase. Did he get that increase to bring him up to closer to the mid-range of the survey? Did he get that increase because he just took on CEO or

COE? No, but CEO I would say it would if if you look at it because I think the department head salaries are all the same basically now, right? Yeah. Which is a little interesting in itself. So though it basically they were that was the adjust it. He he didn't get

anything. I would it seems like you didn't get anything more for taking on the additional but it's not really doesn't really matter in some ways through art. That is true anyone make suggestions in planning? Yes. I recommended

that's where the half that the part-time staff wages be reduced by $20,000. 20,000 because the accountant said between payroll, taxes, all of that stuff, it'd be a total of $40,000 if we decreased her by four hours a week.

Uh for just for the record, I'm going to recuse myself of any discussion on this piece. uh as their connection. No problem. Why is it listed? Thank you, Jeff. Why is it listed as part-time staff wage if it's going to be Oh, because it's divided between two between the two.

Okay, got it. I asked that question, which is also a little confusing because then you're like, why is there health insurance if we only had a part-time staff? And George is George's parttime, right? George is parttime. George is parttime. Yeah. So part of that is George's amount, too.

So we're making that number what? 53780. change? Again, he said all the little categories add up to 40,000 total. And so since I don't have his formula, I just took it out of wages because they can divide it up wherever they want to.

Okay, that seems like that doesn't sound like enough money for part time. When he went from 32 to 28 hours, it was a $16,670 benefit reduction in wages alone. No, no, benefits. Oh, benefits. Okay. Right. would have been your health insurance

that doesn't work with the health insurance. So you have to reduce that again. The total was 40,000. So I think just for talk it's probably cleaner but So you want to take 20 out of here and 20 out of the other out of public we get there.

He doesn't want to jump there yet. Um I'd like to see us again. It's it's it's pretty minuscule, but um uh under subscriptions, Yeah. One 277. I'd like to reduce that by uh 700 $1,000. Make it $1,000. out the real number for

we'd have to be able to gain access to the accountant and I'm not sure we can estimate right. Does it matter? I guess it doesn't matter does matter in your reasoning Milton I'm just based on previous years expenditures in ' 84 um that was 658 year to date 886 they had budgeted 1750 I I did ask the question at at last week's meeting were there any more um

dues Yeah. And they couldn't answer the question. Okay. All right. So, that brings total planning and code enforcement to how much, Neil? 87810 Less 31.9%. Negative 31.9%. mostly because your code enforcer is now over in public works,

right? Okay. So, total government now 763309 for a percentage of 2 0.2%. Yeah. Okay. Does that make sense? 0.2%. Yeah. Um, let's see. more. So, yeah, or 25,000 more. Double check all this, don't I? Yeah, I think that's correct. It sounds about right. Okay,

wanted to move on to. I think we can move on to a different subject if you want to recommend capital reserves. Yeah. Okay. what is that? Yeah. Tab again if somebody it's not it's not a the only thing that we had for handout were these sheets here. So, it's under transfers out

which is under townwide for those that are on the sheet the ex um spreadsheet. I don't know what page it is. 19 page 19. Transfer out. Okay. All right. And what are you proposing as the breakdown? How much are you transferring out? I guess we'll start with that. I mean the the regional and fire department which is being recommended by the select board is 140,000 and I'm recommending 90,000.

And why is that? Because I'm trying to reduce the expenditures and I realize this is kicking the can down the road. But what page I'm not seeing page 19. I'm on page 19. Page 19 transfers out. And where did he get fire department? It's on a completely different

It's on individual sheets. It's in the Secret Service handout thing. Okay. So, right now we're talking fire department. Yeah. Fire department is 140,000. That's based on the select board's recommendation. Okay. And they have a graph for it.

Okay. But I'm just trying to look at a way to It's basically postponing purchases. Why are you Why are you at 90? because that's what I chose. See, I was at nothing. I wouldn't do that. I wouldn't know that. Well, yes. Could I borrow your graph just for one second, please? I thought I brought it with me and I did not.

Thank you. years down the road, you're not going to have money to do it, and you're going to raise taxes. Yeah, but they took they took the UTV out of here that was not on the list and the one time that is not on the list. So, they're making this their fun money to to when they want. They take money out. They don't go by the list that you're you're saying kicking down the road, which I understand, but they're not going by the list anymore. And when you talk to them about it, gosh, last year they couldn't even provide it for you and Jane. um the list of the the the purchases in now the fire department doesn't have to make another one until 2029.

Yeah. For 150,000 and there's 500 and something,000 into their account right now. The fact your your points may be valid, but the fact is the equipment that's listed is equipment that's going to be needed. Correct. Whether or not we thought it was correct to purchase two items that was wasn't included on the list, that's I think a different discussion.

Um but the fact is they they still need will need this. But they don't have When you say one ton, are you talking about the chief's truck? Yeah. I thought that was planned for last year. It wasn't. I don't think it was on the list. No,

I thought it I thought Well, again, we didn't get a list, but I'm pretty sure it was in the discussion. You're right. We couldn't But we don't need to buy a pumper truck or they don't need to buy one till 2029, which is 150,000, which like I said, they got a half a million in there.

Actually, just just uh for the record, that's what it would cost if you were to purchase one this year. what they're anticipating what it will cost in 2029. I believe 159 or 160. So next year one maybe things will be a little more stable. Maybe we'll know how much the school is going to get funded. There's a well like Alan said there's a lot of may and you can't deal with may but we could fund it fully next year and

that would give them enough money for the ambulance and for whatever they needed but that was Allen's going with 90. So well put a motion on the floor and vote for No, not yet. Um and and I'm sorry if I missed something. You came up with 90. How did you pick that number?

reserve by $100,000 and I took 50 out of that and I'll take 50 out of uh public works. Capital Reserve Fire Department. I'll second. All right. Wait a minute. So, the motion is to raise appropriate 90,000 and first is Allen. The second is Neil

and further discussion. I I would I would be more comfortable if it came up with a figure. I mean, they're using an estimated interest rate of 3% if maybe we based uh if you were if the this committee was committee was to make such a recommendation was you know based it on maybe a lower interest rate. So if

the interest rate was two and a half percent then inflation rate I'm sorry inflation rate inflation rate sorry I don't think it's wise to go below 3% on I mean it's kind of like it's this the same is being done by select board why are we not paving because we need the we need to not spend money someplace and that's what Alan is saying

why are we not putting money into CIP because we need to try and save money someplace. If you want to give a a reason it's petty, I would say decrease it by 40,000 because you guys obviously thought you had an extra 40,000 to buy a vehicle that wasn't on the list.

I think the public works like Alan maybe don't cut anything out of public works and take more out of the fire department only because public works seems to need it right now. You know, I I I think you're that that's an acceptable argument. Um Jill um

sounds a little petty to me I guess in some ways. So that would make it so the reduction would be 40,000 instead of 50,000 in this case. Yeah. Which doesn't meet Allen's goal of 100,000. The the public works has a large purchase. What what did they want to spend in 2027 for public works? $485,000.

And they have how much currently 289. short of what they want to buy next year. That's why I thought we could take it out of the fire department and put it in but fund the public works and take more out of the fire department to make Allen's goal of 100,000.

Alen that um would are you planning to sit with the budget committee at town meeting? Yeah. So you would be com you're comfortable then explaining the motion? Yeah. Sure. Just want to make sure. Thank you. to read here. They're not labeled. So, you have

Yeah, you have to read what they're buying and that allows you to guess what department it's the graph isn't labeled. So, Don, you're saying nothing to fire because they don't need anything until when? 2029, I think it was.

But they already have they got over 500,000 in their account. right? Yeah. But if you look at what their plan is, um, by 2031, because they've got a very large expense in 2030, you're going to be back down to 290 on their plan. And

uh though and and I I will say I mean just listening to them talking and so on, they're doing everything they can to help extend the life of our equipment uh be because of the ridiculous increases in uh for new equipment.

It's it's about a million dollars for a new pumper truck now. And um up from like $350,000 just a few years ago. And so so they're looking at uh refurbishing and trying to extend the life of our equipment more than the 20 years or whatever was originally planned. So, um,

personally, I feel CIP and I guess road paving are the two areas that we can decrease. So, I'd almost rather see where everything else lands and then make adjustments in these categories. It is kicking the can. It doesn't matter when we do it or how we do it. Whether it's paving, whether it's

Oh, I know. CIP, we're kicking the can. Um well unless they unless they can extend a life equipment which I agree that they're trying to they are trying to do that absolutely you know but um but there's a lot of there's a a lot that you could discuss but I think I think in these categories the transfer out and the paving our number the simple answer is because we're trying to decrease the taxes this year.

If if the select board can go with that answer, then we can go with that answer. And therefore, I say when the rest of the departments are done, we can come back to these categories and figure out how we want to adjust them.

appropriate. Yes. Okay. Unless you want to withdraw. you're saying say say you said say say say say say say say say say say say say say say say say say say say say say again what you want to do I want to kick the can down the road

the whole thing once we figure out the departments reduce this number once we figure out the spending in the departments this is an area along with paving that can be raped and pillaged with the comment of we're just trying to rescue you and we'll kick it down the can till next year

we get more people from South Portland living here and less pe Oh, people who can't afford it because they've moved out already from our tax increases. Any further discussion? So, the motion on the floor is to see if the town will

raise an appropriate $90,000 for capital reserve for the fire department. All those in favor? All those opposed? And it feels three to five. Was it was five to three? Five team. Okay. So, are we moving on to public safety?

We can So I had the chief salary. I had 83873 plus $5,000 stipen 83. This is last This is what he's being paid currently. Thought the stipen went away. What is it? 83 83 873 873. And how much was the stipen? I thought the stipen went into his

It was 5200 I believe. you know 2/3 of the budget and adding the five grand for the new figure? What's that? Is that what you're proposing for the new figure? No, I'm just saying that's what I used as a base. So we had a 10% raise last year

including the stipen. Including the stipen. So 88,000 as a base and what do we want to give? What do we want? That's a number we can start with. I'd say he's proposing 98,000. That's another 10% raise. department heads with a percentage of increase?

I guess we need to. Yeah. Yeah. I think it would be wise to do that. So, say 6%. 6%. Just I thought we were at 7 and a half. No, 7 and a half was full-time staff. Rachel, this is where the admin the department had 6%. Yeah, we didn't. I had the I

this will present. Well, I guess I'm a little confused. So you already know what his salary was going into this. Well, because he's been paid according to 77,000 year to date, but I took the budget 125810, right? and calculated 12 months of that

and added statement and added the $5,000 statement because the $5,000 stipen used to be in a different line. Yeah, that's where is it? They took it out. They said that was absorbed in telephone and internet line. Well, the way they explained it in their notes. They said I think last week when I when I asked stipend was cell phone.

Yeah, it's now absorbed in telephone and internet. So I don't know if that stipend is the or or if the stipen that was so given last year got absorbed into wages. So I would say the stipen's already been absorbed. Yeah. Not so I would just base it off the 83873 and give 6% of that.

Calvin I'm going to be jumping ahead. So, I'll tell you why later. Yeah. Yeah. We're seeing things. Thank you. In the category. So, you want to make it an even 89,000. I mean, they seem to like uneven numbers, so I'm okay with leaving it at 8895.

Yeah, me too. Okay. 38.38 cuz that's 6%. So, comes out 38.38. Huh? 88 95.38. 88905. Oh yeah, you want the 38. Okay. They don't have pennies on here. They got rid of pennies. 8905. Period. that they hired. to. And they took overtime wages out of part-time wages to be able to monitor it more closely.

5,000. question, but the only question I had was I presume we had an EMS person under part-time. Yes, you did. So, and they said the only thing they decreased part-time by was $5,000. Seems like it should have been decreased more than that.

I don't feel like it should have been. Well, I I think that was some of this was um also because of the wage increases. So, the all the part-time wages have increased, too. So, uh that's probably why why uh you you can probably you might still look at that as far far as how much they increase, but uh I assume that's probably some of it. So, if you take the fiscal year budget, 2026 fiscal year budget, divide it by 18 months, multiply it by 12 months, you get $35,900.

5,000, you have $300,900. four $3,000 $4,130. that in really part-time before he went to full-time, right? It's only getting 18 hours a week. Yeah. But like you said, there's also the wage pool increases. All the wages were increased, too. Yeah. So,

for the EMS full-time should come out of that number, I think. is fulltime at the fire department only 32 hours also I think so I think it's townwide yeah so it's not 40 hours so if we assume 45760 let's say part-time was half that that'd be 22 I can't that much even I

know. Okay. 76 / two. restroom. which is half of the full-time EMS, if again I'm assuming, but you said it was 18 hours. Okay. So, that probably jives. Um then that would and then divide the so that would have been $278,20 for a 12-month period. Um so that is a 6.7%

increase in part-time staff wages. So just uh a little clarification because somebody asked about you know is this full-time position 32 hours. According to the the memorandum that they sent the justification, it was going to be a 40hour

uh the EMS worker the EMS worker is going to be 40 hours and that match what they have in here. The number they have in here matches uh the number in the budget. Okay. And uh the prior one was the uh part-time was 21 hours.

All right. So I deducted 20 hours theoretically. So she was if anything were in the favor of the budget. Yeah. It was 30,532 was what uh that position paid. 30,582 532. And she worked 21 hours a week. Yeah. So she uh the prior one earned

more per hour than Right. Yeah. Okay. the same percent increase you guys said 6% for department heads are we thinking 7 and a half% for staff wages what we did for the town administration or are we thinking half of what they're recommending because that's you could interpret what we recommended for general government in two different ways. We recommended half a percent because we're doing half of it this year and half of it next year or we're recommending 6% across the board and 7.5% across the board.

or the amount you want to raise everyone to get to your survey. do 50% of it this year, 50% of it next year. So when you recommended six and 7.5, my brain said, "Okay, that's 50%." department and we're not doing 50% of the recommended rate wage increase. We're doing the same percent that we did on the previous department. I don't know what 50% is. I I don't even know what the increase is

for who? For the fire department. Well, if we go back to department head, it's 17.5%. and asking the whole question because it is tricky to calculate. If my calculations are kind of accurate, then it's a 6.7% increase in part-time wages.

But you had the full-time taken out, you've had overtime taken out. So, it's tricky to calculate cuz they created a position. So, you're not comparing apples to apples anymore. You got apples and an apple pie. padded a fair amount. Which one

about the budget for part-time staff wages? Don't know. Well, 258473 for 12 months and that included that included the uh EMS edition. Well, the EMS edition was only around for about one or two months of that, right? Right.

It was it was the uh the full-time position wasn't filled until near the end of the year, I'm pretty sure. Yeah. Yeah. Based on this, it wasn't filled until January 1 because the actual year to date is theoretically January 1 of 25 through December 31st of 25.

I think I think it was filled in the fall, but it's probably irrelevant, I suppose. But but either way, that 2873 is 12 months. of of sort of an actual number, right? Yeah. Yeah. So, if if you would had the full-time person in there the whole year instead of the uh part-time, you could add approximately 15,000 to that. So, that would be uh 273.

273. uh the full-time person the whole year instead of the part-time person, right? So I'm thinking we take out from the 258 473. Let's just say that's part-time wages for the year including the EMS, right? For what? However long he was there.

Yeah. Full he was there full time for a while. If we take out EMS from that uh well, we don't know what that number is. If you think it's 15,000 it the the difference between what the what the part-time and the and what the full-time makes is approximately $15,000 a year.

Okay. So it would only be a few thousand dollar of full-time in that part-time number. So So I'm saying that 258 if we increase if we use that as a baseline for part-time staff wages and increase it whatever percent you want to that's that's a good number. That's what I would say.

So if you Yeah. Right now, if my math is correct, they're recommending an 8.5% increase over last year, taking out the full-time person. part-time number for the year and increase it to by 6% it's 273 not 296 for the budget. It's a $20,000 decrease.

981 can just it's not an apples and apples comparison, right? Yeah. Right. Seven and a half or fulltime there. Well, again, you get where you you got to explain this on the floor. though I would add an extra probably close to 10,000 or something in there because you this part-time is based on the all your on calls are paid on this too and you don't know whether last year was a was a heavy year, a light year. Um, and you just don't this particular line you you don't know

where you're going to fall because you don't know what your call volume is and how much you need of. So I I would if you do that calcul too because it's it's a it's a very squishy. Yeah. Like Alan said, you you have to deal with actual. You can't do if this, if that, if this, if that, because you just can't because every single item could be, well, this could happen and that could happen and this might happen and that might happen.

Yes. But I'm not I'm saying put a a buffer. I'm not saying put a necessarily a large buffer in there, but put put something in there because I mean, if I if I knew last year's call volume was considerably higher than the previous 5 years average, then you might not put as much of a buffer in there. But I I really don't know. And I just think it's

it's a little w it's it's wise to leave a little room on something like this because we it it is it's a g it's a guessing game and it's all it's always been a guessing game on on this particular line because you you you just don't know. So if you stick with we're giving department heads 6% and wages 7 and a half% it would make this line be 279 650.

That's I was thinking something close to 280. So that makes that's close. Yeah. So maybe do that. 279. What? 279 650. You remember that Jill? 279 650. Honestly, don't say it. No, I'll be honest. I It's the new math. I understand that she will she won't be here to present this on the town floor.

So, I took the budget like we've been doing with everybody else. I took the budget, divided it by 18 months, multiplied it by 12 months, subtracted out the full-time staff wage, multiplied it by 7.5%. That's how I got that number. and I will be happy to write it up so somebody can stand up and read it.

with with with Jeff's add-on for a buffer. That's not that different. So, yeah. But here and this is also this is training wages as well, right? No. Uh, no. Well, I think training has its own line. Training 8,000 training development, but is that wages or is that

paying that's course fees paying the people coming in for the to do the train? You know, if you if you have somebody come in, right, contract with somebody to come in or materials or Yeah, I think that's because they have the note. It's the certification price has increased 50%. So, I think that's more

I don't know for sure. I mean, so firefighter one and two is, you know, sending individuals out for training. Uh, the department has training monthly and people get paid to attend that training. So, I believe it comes under that line.

Yeah. I I was thinking of them being paid would come out of the part-time wages, but whoever is running the class gets paid, too. And that probably comes out of training and development. Yeah. I don't know. All right. So

is there any other changes people recommend to total fire department? a 50% increase. Past free cost more I guess. I don't know. It does. It's stupid but it does. What does that mean? More what? cost more money to get a PAS free item.

That's the foam. When they use foam on a fire scene, we now have to use PIFA. Oh, it's not it's like a jacket or something or No, it's like, you know, this got prompted by the incident that happened at Brunswick at Brunswick um base when uh the foam got released unintentionally. Yeah. and it released a lot of pas and we now purchase pifas free foam and it costs more than the earlier phone.

722885 5.6% increase 722885 5% increase 5.6 5.6 6. Thank you. That's with the cheese reduction and the prime time wages reduction. 722825. 722885 and 5.6%. well, it's going to make tomorrow night a little bit easier. Listen, after everyone checks,

does anybody want to make a change to targeted enforcement? Because that's what the people want. Targeted enforcement. Is that what we want? That's what the people want. What the Targeted enforcement. So targeted enforcement,

police officers coming here and targeting you for speeding, paying the sheriff's office by the hour at a contract rate. It's not necessarily I mean there Oh, I see. There are there are a number of people who are very vocal about having it and there are just about as many that are very vocal they don't want it. And and they they've brought this to town for before and it's been voted down

several times. Yeah. Yeah. I'm okay not adding it. I just wanted to ask you before we moved on. All right. It is getting to be that hour and I get a little benchy. Yes. So I apologize. I'll try to spot animal control. We have nothing to say over. Right.

Correct. volunteer to be animal control. So what is your public safety total? 74545. 1045485 for a percentage of 5.9. Okay. 7458 745485 what? 8 5.9%. Here we go. Um, okay. Public works department head wages. For me, this one is confusing or troublesome because I feel like he's getting his public works pay and his CEO pay. So, yes, he got a 23.3% raise, but

so the way my brain did the math, I think this is a bad idea because it's not going to work for very long. And I can I can speak to this. I was in this type of position for a while. When I worked, I had I was pulled in two different directions. You never know what you're going to do. You don't work wherever your heart is gets split. And I don't think he's going to last. Johnny, you don't know you don't know who your master is. Is it CEO or is it the public works? So, and and he's a unique guy. He can do it for a while, I'm sure. But aren't many guys that can do that job?

Both, you know, do both. In fact, he's probably the only one around it. Didn't he do this before? Once before and it didn't work for like was it like for he didn't have support. The biggest thing about this administrative assistant is the paperwork that has to be filed

correctly. really the paper the paper chase want to look at it that's really what's going to be done and it takes a heck of a lot of work out of a department head to do that that's why you get an administrative system some of that stuff he's got to do anyway though the CEO guy got to fill out the paperwork when he does an inspection right

you can't have his assistant do that that's right so I don't know all right I think I know how I got there see if anybody else can follow the bouncing ball So the way I looked at it is actual year to date public safety and public works

were roughly the same. One was 77,000, one was 78,000. percent increase of 17.5%. Public works, they recommended 5% more than that. what we're doing right now. I did my 8% and then I added 5% for being CEO of the select board to figure out why why they did what they did.

So what did you come up with? Well again I gave 8% not 6%. So if we do my funny math with 6% because of it being a dual position because of it being a dual position times 1.06 06 give cuz? Wait a minute. I'm doing something wrong here. Hang on. Be eight. No, that'd be 6 + 5 that'd be 11. Let me try a different way cuz that didn't make that didn't work. Eight formula. What? What the numbers?

6% and 5%. So, I should just be able to do 11%. Yeah, we got to the same number. $87,457. 6% for being a department head for being public works department head and 5% for CEO. saw. Okay. Fire chief was Yeah. It was 8895.

So, you're saying go up to 88,905? Yeah. To keep them the same as cuz we're assuming that that's what they wanted to do by having the same numbers. Okay. somebody asked. 11.3. 11.3. they got to solve that problem on their own. They they've got the money to do it. They got the contingency fund. Whatever they have to do to keep truck drivers, they got to do, right?

Can we what can we do? I do know I have a friend who is a truck a truck driver works for gender and then went to somebody else. He said truck drivers move around easily. Doesn't take a buck a buck and half an hour. They'll change jobs in a blank and public works people time people get better benefits by far. So,

I don't know what our problem is, but have we ever paid a stipend for like certain like winter months? I wonder about subcontracting problem. Oh, over time or do we have what's it called when you you get a pay if it's first shift, second shift, third shiftial,

shift differential? Yeah. You know, so if you're plowing at 2 am, you get paid a different hourly wage than if you're plowing at 8 am. item. You only got a one and a half% increase here. And I'm not sure why because you took out all the paving.

Oh yes, of course that's in there, isn't it? You didn't think it was. Uhhuh. they're recommending their truck drivers. Yeah. 152062. their employee hourly wages graph they sent was a 15% increase. Yet on the budget, they've got a 27% increase.

wage giving a raise to. He was already getting $25 an hour and they're leaving him there or her there or they there. thought process that they get a 7 and a half% or are we giving them a little bit more because compared to Harpwell's survey?

at every meeting that they won't stay. They they work for a day, you know, they they come on, they get trained, and then they leave. I don't know why they don't check all the other towns to find out what they're paying before.

Well, if you're if you're accepting a position for the pay, you're okay with the pay. don't know anyone that expects a raise in a couple of weeks, right? So, if you're leaving, my assumption is it's not because of the pay.

And that goes back to what I talked about earlier. Why don't we know why these people are leaving, right? It's not always pay. We're being told it's it's being I know for poor pay. I know, but like to your point, they come, they know what the pay is. Maybe it's when they get to the work that they realize it's not worth it or something. Why is part-time staff waged up so much? Do we know?

Because of the uh admin. Yeah. And 20 20,000 of that is admin, I'm recommending decreasing it by 20,000. 49060. 49060. 4960 49060. to decrease to bring the administrator down to part-time. right? They I don't know. The last I heard there was a proposal made, but I don't know if they've been hired or not.

Oh, they did. That's what he said, Jerry. He said they hired her. They did hire the person. She was good. Yeah. Okay. That is right. It does a grand total. Yeah, I got more to cut though. Oh, you do? Sorry. He's gone. Where are you? Um,

painting and striping should stay at maintenance level, which would have been 14,000 roads painted. Well, the main the main reason for increasing that was because of the ceiling. Oh, thanks. Yeah, something's tickling me. Yeah. So, it's paying us right in like 15

14,000. Stay at maintenance level Thank you. That was good. What was it? It was have crack sealing they increase because we're not paving roads, right? So, we're trying to save what's already there, the full-time? Nope, I don't think we did. I was about

fulltime and part time we completely skipped. So, I figured go to what we what I knew I wanted to do. Well, you did do part-time. You knocked 20,000 off that. Yeah. Right. full-time staff wages. Yeah. be because if we still can't keep public works employees in a year,

we can force the select board to investigate what's really going on. They can't use pay as an excuse. Yep. All this committee can do is make recommendations. That was I don't think your choice of words probably was. And we're not dictating these wages either.

No, they're going to pay they're going to pay what they're going to pay them. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Jen said they'll take money someplace else. They'll figure it out. Yeah. I agree with you by the way on that. Leave Leave those.

Okay. So, did anybody else make any other changes? remember. Municipal municipal buildings partway. was quite was I clean the I guess she was sick. Did I ask that she was sick? She wasn't in there. I think I asked that. I

think you did. Yeah, you did. I don't I didn't write down an answer. Was cleaning person and they were going to have to hire a new cleaning person cuz she was getting done or something. Shepherd. No, she has some health issues.

position? What did they do? I didn't ask about pay question. Thank you. was what was that position? Oh, and learned it was the cleaning staff, takes care of the town office, public works, and Eureka. I didn't ask a question regarding their pay, their wages.

Um, what's 7503 uniforms? Did we ever talk about that or ask about that or did we for public works? Yes. Yeah, it's boots and but we I wrote includes boots or somebody wrote includes boots. I'm guessing it's you know like safety vests and

uh chaps. Yeah. Yeah. You know, if they're cutting wood, helmets, they probably Yeah, they added that a year or two ago, I remember, and it seemed to make sense. Well, I just see the fiscal 2026 was we spent 864, but they're move they moved boots from safety to uniforms.

Oh, okay. Okay. And from the sounds of it, they didn't have enough employees last year to buy any uniforms for. So that could be why that number is a little low. Okay. adjustments for public works. So where does that leave us? Neil

922. Oh, that's the copy. 727. Are are we all good with their recommendation of no bulky waste? I am. I'm up on our roadways and the public works having to go pick them up? Well, my thoughts is is it's not eliminating it completely like that. I I like the idea maybe doing it every other year or something like that. This brings us through July 1st of next year.

So if they get enough fighting and and disgruntlement, they can have a public they can have a bulky waste in 2027 between July and when the snow flies what November, December, year. So they used to do it like May and September. So

you remember the reason why we cut it back to once? saving money. Was it simply a cost saver? I think it was a cost savings and and I don't think the second one was being used as much. when we find out whether people can make a change to numbers on the floor.

What else do we want to circle back to once we figure that out? the whole budget. But we're circling back to are we going back capital reserve wages? And well everyone good till to go into 9:30? It's 9:00 now. Oh my goodness. Time's flown.

Typically we wouldn't go later than 9:30. Everyone all right with that? Yep. Yep. Okay. Thank you. You need to make a motion. No, we hadn't decided on the type. Okay. All right. Community services years, but as far as general assistance and they stopped making um donations two years ago

and it it really doesn't matter whether we put it in there or not. They have to they have to provide general assistance. Right. Right. So, so it Oh, I can make a motion that we accept community services. Alan. So, I make a motion to see if the town will raise and appropriate $1,000 for community services.

Allan seconds. Wait a minute. How much? 1,000. So it's first is Jill, second is Allan. Any So it's been moved and seconded that the town raises and appropriates $1,000 for community services. Any further discussion? Seeing none, I'm all in favor of the motion and it's unanimous.

Moving right along. townwide was really just the debt service. It's not really anything. And we get back to the transfers out. All right. So, Neil, not Neil. Yeah. Neil, where are we currently on the budget summary mill rate?

Where do we want it to be? Well, I was looking at not that we can do anything about it because I I don't agree with their velocity bound taxable valuation because it's definitely going to go up. But I was looking at the uh current 13.5

or whatever it is there overall. I says, "Okay, what would it take for us to get down to 9%." We would have to our valuation would have to go from the what is it? 389,647,000. So, there's no way that they're going to be adding $15 million for valuation,

because when I was brought, I just felt like I got shot down. But anyway, I wasn't comparing mail rates and was kind of the response was kind of like I was comparing mail rates. No, I wasn't. I totally understand this. And uh

well, Is it going to increase? It's going to increase and they they don't know if they they make that determination when they set their mail rate and they get valuation numbers from the assessor, but but we had 33 new homes last year permits,

right? At least 20 of those were built December 31st. If we decrease the fund balance to what the accountant recommends of 300,000, what does that do to us, Neil? Say, if we decrease the fund balance to what the accountant recommends at 300,000, what does that do to us?

Dump up. No, all the basically it's going to if we take Allen's suggestion on the uh capital reserve funds and so on, it's going to be close to a wash, right? 14.4% no increase. Okay. By the way, if you take that out, it's like a 20% increase based on their budget. It's 19.7% if you take out the total fund balance usage of 500,000.

Yeah. Yeah. Scary. Yeah. So, I got to figure out what I did then because I decreased that to 300,000 and supposedly I'm at 9.5% for property tax levy. What' you do for the uh capital fund stuff? So, we would have had a drastic

town wide? I figured the fire department thought they had an extra 40,000. I only decreased that to 355,000. The reserve the transfers out. Right. Right. Um this this tonight's discussion works that I see is that we have to go along with what's been proposed for that transfer because as as Jeff just said anything we do any lower amount we recommend for the transfer is going to wash about the deductions we've made.

We can reduce the capital. However, it it may you may not see the benefit from it this year, but you in future years you should see um a benefit because we're not drawing as much out of that uh out of the uh general funds basically. uh to to counteract. If we don't draw as much out now, there'll be that much more in there next year. And so it may not you may not see

the savings this year necessarily, but that won't help rate next year. It won't help them. Yeah. I mean, basically, we'll have chopped around 200,000, maybe a little bit more out if we uh if we take a 100,000 out of the capital reserve somewhere. um which would counteract the 200,000 that we're suggesting that we'd be suggesting not to uh take from the

uh undeimated funds. Are we suggesting that? Are you suggesting that, Jeff? Are you suggesting that? No, no. I'm I'm just stating I'm just stating is if we do kind of what's been discussed and and so on, it's gonna there's not going to be a big difference in the final mill rate or f the final bottom line

because um the the select board suggesting to take an extra 200,000 out of out of the undesated funds that apparently isn't isn't recommended by our accountant. Yeah. Um Neil's numbers. So I'm trying to figure out if I remove more.

Maybe I goofed up in I changed department have wages. I changed to have wages and Yeah, for some reason my number is 1772. maybe eyeballs getting too tight. Bounce back and forth. It was 177. So you took 200,000 out of that. Yeah. Uhhuh. 501 381

38 22 32 890 how to split you up again. your work, did you come up with a total reduction? Oh, I see what I did. Just in the government and government in the um Yeah, I worked in the fire department and stuff. I didn't do too much with the public works. I kind of left them alone.

Yeah. I see what else I took out of public works. I took out paving completely. I took it out completely because Jerry specifically said if the prices stay where they're at, I am not going to recommend paving. But we go into reserve.

This was before that meeting and I was like I'm not going to give them $200,000 to just spend willy-nilly where they want to. taking that out? Well, that's what I did. I took it out. It took out stock pole and so is the number you gave us of 1 1922727. Is that changing?

No. So that's still I was trying to figure out why my budget was only a 9% increase along with decreasing fund balance down to 300,000 but your guys's was 152 is still in that is still in the group's proposal thus far. Okay. So, but in in essence, we might be treating that like a capital improvement because if they don't do improvement, then that's 152 that will go towards next year's paving,

right? They did discuss they did discuss creating a warrant article saying money not spent on paving will go into a capital improvement for paving. They did request to have that language created at the last meeting and that would that would actually allay your fears about them.

Correct. Correct. I I don't I don't I don't see them doing that even without the article, you know, about um well, it's the town's people. is and several of us on Stackpole Road are going to graduation. So it it could it could go past without getting stockpful page. You just never know.

Sure. After revisiting the reserves, I have another proposal problem. Good. What are you doing? Check things off back to town. after looking at what the actual schedules are for purchasing I'll make a motion that we raise and appropriate $40,000 in capital reserve for the fire department.

Okay, Second. All right. So, let me write this out. So, now the new motion is to raise an appropriate 40,000 for the fire fire department capital reserve. First is Allen. Second by Phyllis. Further discussion. What does that lead us to, Neil? In our final budget,

if we decrease transfers out down to $295,000 under townwide. It's under townwide. Yep. Decrease it to 295 no rate increase. My rationale on that when I looked at the schedule for purchasing there was nothing scheduled for 2027 for the fire department and there is for the public works. Right.

Yeah. What's that? It goes to 11% no rate, right? Decreases at 1%. Which we knew every 100,000 decreases at 1%. Any additional discussion? Seeing none, the motion is to see if the town will raise and appropriate $40,000 for capital reserve for the fire department. All those in favor? All those opposed? Well, motion passes 6 to two.

I will make another motion. 521. Somebody abain. I just sat here. Donna abstain. Are you abstaining? Yeah. So, wake up. Wake up. I know. Okay. Okay. It's my bedtime, too. I'm at 2 in the morning. It's like, okay. And I'll make a motion on uh raise and appropriate 250,000 for capital reserve on public works.

I'll second that. Wait a minute. So, motion on public works, capital reserve. 250,000. Jill. So, the motion made is to raise and appropriate $250,000 for public works capital reserve. Any further discussion? Seeing none, uh, ask for a vote on the motion. All those in favor? Any opposed? No. Passes. 8 Z.

I voted. Wake up in there. And I know that Joe wants to make a motion on the button the municipal. Yeah. I just want to make sure I agree with it before I say it. municipal buildings. Let's see. What do they plan on doing? They plan on doing nothing in the next two years. So, I'm going to make a motion that it's zero dollars.

Yeah, I will second that. Motion on which is on which one? Uh municipal budget. Municipal buildings. Yes. Municipal buildings capital reserve. And the motion was for $0. Yep. What was it? And the motion was made first by Jill.

Who second it? Mark. Mark did $100,000 reductions. Mark. So the motion is to raise and appropriate $0 for uh capital reserve fund for municipal buildings. Additional discussion. And the reason the reason why we're reducing it to zero is because there's no plan for next year.

No plan for the next two years. build plan for the next two years. Yeah. Is there something major? I don't have it in front of me. Is what what's long term? Are they longterm? They need a public works garage furnace for $20,000.

They need a salt shed for $25,000. You mean a salt shed door for $25,000. And both of those are in 2029. So even if you look out to 2032, the expenditures that they're projecting less than what's in the account right now,

right? 247. So, so even if you look out to 2032, um they're they've got three uh three years where they're suggesting expenditures and that comes out to uh see 907, that's 147, and they have 147 in there right now. So, uh for the next five years, they have the money that they need for the next 5 years in that account right now. add that to our notes.

So, I'll need somebody to Yeah. be ready to present that to the town floor. So the motion on the floor is to raise and appropriate $0 toward the municipal buildings capital reserves. All in favor? Oh, it's a vote. Yeah. So done.

So should be 105. I'm not sure if there's coming back to the wages after you had a chance to look. We have a chance to really look at them and see what's what the public's work wages. No. Um, just in general. In general. Yes.

Tomorrow. Yeah. There's a couple more things I'd like to calculate. I'm not sure I will have time between now and tomorrow, but also now and Thursday I would have enough time. Yeah. If people want to skip tomorrow and come to my house for margaritas ain't good to my

huh. Oh, everyone's invited. Um, just got to forewarn my husband. Um, all right. I got them. So, what's left right now, which we can I I take the lateness of the hour and we might hold off till tomorrow. We have we still have to do a do a but we need to make a recommendation for an article regarding general government public safety to include animal control and public works and um we need to

I'd like to make a motion. Yeah. We'll have um the general fund transfer to discuss. I'm guessing you might want to make a motion on grants. Yeah. Okay. I'd like to make a motion to see if the town will raise and appropriate $0 for grants matching reserve just in case that happens to be an article. I'm not sure it will be since it's $0, but might as well cover our basis.

That's a good second. Jeff seconded. Hold on a second. second was you said Jeff. Yes. All right. So, the motion has been made and seconded that the town raises and appropriates $0 towards the u uh grant for the grants matching

grants matching reserve fund. Further reason for that. My reason for that is the accountant says we don't need to. Seeing that no no one else wants to speak, I'll ask for a vote. All those in favor of raising and appropriating $0 for the grants matching reserve fund, please indicate. That passes 8 Z.

Did we reach a consensus on the fund balance? No, not yet. We have four articles that we have to resolve. General government, public safety, public works, and fund balance transfer and I'd like to move that to tomorrow's meeting where it's 9:25.

Yeah. Any late any other business would like to clarification on up and down numbers on the warrant. Yeah, we can ask for it. Whether we have it by tomorrow night, I'm not sure. I'd like to make a motion for serious reasons that we don't have our meeting tomorrow night because I work all day tomorrow and the things that I want to finish investigating based on the email we got this morning, I know I'm not going to have time to do before tomorrow night. So, I'd like to propose that we meet Thursday night because I do feel we can hammer this all out Thursday night.

Is this available? No, we'll have to meet Eureka building. Eureka has been reserved. Good. need a second. The motion. Jeff will second. So, there's a motion on the floor to um cancel the meeting scheduled for tomorrow evening, May 5th.

and proceed with the meeting that is already scheduled for Thursday, May 7th to take place at the Eureka Community Center. Any further discussion? All those in favor of the motion and it passes. Thank you for giving me extra time to do my research.

And that will conclude. Oh, I need a motion to adjourn. Oh, sorry. We got an email from Chairman Roy requesting we send him the spreadsheet I put together for wage comparisons. Very long email regarding FO, etc., etc., etc. Anyway, let me know if I'm either forward buying or you forward buying.

You got the request. No, no, the budget committee did. We did. Um, I have no problem if you forward it. You're if you're the originator unless anyone disagrees with that. Did when did you get that email? cuz I don't recall seeing it.

Do an hour ago. I don't know. I didn't get it. Oh, okay. He wanted to keep watching us yet. Well, yeah, but he didn't send it to everybody. What is What's meaker research? What's meeker mean? I'm wonder if that's a typo.

Says, "While watching your meeting tonight, you all referenced a sheet that Neil prepared with his own wage study that he conducted and said that it was circulated to your board members. Please forward that sheet and all related materials that were circulated amongst committee members. And then he's reminding us of the rules of FOA.

The rules of what? FOA. FOA. I I won't read it publicly unless you want to read the second paragraph. Freedom of Act Freedom of Information Act. It can be. I mean, it probably should be part of our minutes. Did they change? as it used to be for you.

Everything that we received this morning from Joe and the spreadsheet from Neil too include in minutes. Wait, let's go. Copy the emails from the chief. Copy. Oh, did you notice copy of emails from the select board with their attachments

You wanted the email as well. I I'll send the whole thing to Yeah, I'll just for the email. That'll be a good All right. So, he's got he's got taking care of the his still include it because then it's part of the and we're being very transparent that way. I'm not sure how I attach emails to my minutes.

I can do it for you. Just send me the minutes and I'll do the rest. All right. Thank you. You're welcome. the morning. So, that'll be good. That'll be good. Can somebody that got the email from Joe forwarded to everybody else?

I did. The one that we got this morning and No, the one just that I just got. Oh, yes. I will do that right now. And I will also let them know that transparency the select board group is still not working. No, budget committee group is still not working. Yes. Um

See some people might get it again. adjourn. Second by Mark. Any discussion? All those in favor. And if you can take the other camera. All right. Passes 8 to Z. Okay. And the time is when I get it, I can 9:29, please. I mean, you know, let me see it. Which one's pink?