TranscriptBudget Committee Meeting ~ January 31, 2023

tonight is our meeting to review the recommendations uh that the select board came up with at their last meeting which was held last Tuesday [Music] um why don't I go around the room and introduce ourselves to those who are watching that you know who um they're being represented by I'll start um I'm Milt Simon live at 96 stackpole Road um and I'm the chair of the budget committee Heather you're up um Heather Roy I live on Hollow

Road and I'm the vice chairman I'm my boy Rod Stimson Emerson Road it's my first year on the committee Neil Berry stack Bowl Road Harrington Day Road Jane rice Bowie Hill John Talbot stackwell Road uh so first order of business a question has been raised uh what as obviously one of our members is um not physically present um at the meeting but is taking place but is uh participating via bobble head really okay um has been raised and I and um I guess we'll have to rely on the town manager for the answer but we need to know whether or not um she can take part in the voting as sure she's not physically present at this meeting um Town manager Jerry do you have anything we talked about this at the uh budget committee she brought it up to us and with us the selectable amendments and uh we are okay with it um so she's here I mean I think where it becomes an issue is if they're not at a meeting and then they read the minutes

and then they want to vote I think that's where the issue becomes I mean I can look into it after this and then if it's a problem we won't consider a vote I mean but I don't think it's a problem no I think we're more asking just to get it on the record right any boy meetings have any comments or I think she's pretty present yeah yeah I think so too

I mean when we're looking at it but I don't know the rules very well so I'm fine if everybody else is I know when we are all zoom we're able to vote right right true yeah my understanding is that um as long as the public can participate the same way which is virtually they have the option to watch on the YouTube video they the public doesn't take part in

um the meeting itself they can watch but they can't participate and so we're not I'm not attending in a way that they're not able to attend and so that makes it um allowable but if people are concerned and you guys want to vote please feel free to do that um and I'm happy to send that link that MMA wrote what the rules were about this to anybody who wants to hear where MMA landed on it thank you any further discussion

vote no everyone should have been encouraged all right um so the fire chief just drove up um just I did I did attend the uh select Woods meeting last Tuesday and just can sum it up pretty much in three words that they um approved the budget as presented so um we just now need to decide whether um for an agreement or are there any uh monetary numbers that we would like to recommend thank you uh

it's out with the fire department budget [Music] will be only over fine oh okay so they may want to start does anybody have some questions for the chief you uh attempted to keep your budget below five hundred thousand dollars and I I realized that uh now it's up to 522 000 and I'm just wondering what

those specific increases would have been to change it to that extent my budget so I'm actually 8 600 in the hole so that was overcome so if you take my budget that the 496 you know that would have made it 504 um plus something again I was being pigheaded with level funded I really was I have level funded since 2019 or the fire department has and when I say level funded I mean one percent you know here or there um I sat down again with the town manager I sat down with uh the seniority of the fire department and we really just went line by line in anything that we were over we tried to accommodate so electric propane and Diesel is up 32 percent if you do the math my equipment maintenance is up 27 from last year and

I did prepare this for this question which was which was good um just to let you know about equipment in equipment maintenance even though our trucks are a little bit older that line item carries um things like the EMS supplies which I did move I took 10 000 out and put that in that was almost 20 000 last year so the more calls you do which were up on volume you know the more stock you need um pump testing is up these are all under equipment maintenance hose testing is up extinguishers are up um the latter certifications up apparatus I have sixteen thousand specific for apparatus and I spent

[Music] well over that almost 17 just for apparatus so I couldn't the short answer now is I I couldn't absorb any more with a thousand dollars for the uh medical director you know that wasn't budgeted for we just sat down went line by line and it's really what we came up with

Communications what's that 3500 increase ah so we have a 20 a 20 increase in all of the dispatch so um a thousand dollars just from Androscoggin County to dispatch so that was about 20 something thousand last year they're up to 22 000. so again these are all just increases I just couldn't take I was just curious no it's all

licensing involved and uh there's actually for us to dispatch there's about three different agencies one has to support IMC which is computers and and uh run reports and then the other one has to dispatch for so that that's where that comes from you'll also see right above that I I was called out on personal safety uh you can see what what a large jump that was um again were mandated NFPA mandates that every 10 years we get a new set of gear for the firefighters just mandated every year again we inspect them and those jumped what what used to be 2 000 are now 3 300 for a custom set of gear I had to buy four sets and that doesn't include it um just hoods those fire hoods they're like 110 bucks a piece we just got 10 of them so it's almost a thousand dollars in in hoods yes if you overextended that by the twelve thousand dollars last year now you you're looking for a budget the same as the previous year but you

overextended the previous year so what is leading me to believe that you won't overextend that again I took again this was a deep dive this was every penny behind the scenes we looked at who would need gear this year and who wouldn't and we could get away with one set of gear just the way the rotation is when you get a grant and and the general the guys did about 10 15 years ago you replace everything the problem with that is it sounds great but then it's all in that same Bunch so you try to stagger it with everything you know we did that with the scbas you try to stagger um so we're just filling in the cracks boots gloves you know those type of things so they felt good again fire management Town manager that we could stay within that line item yeah thank you

I thought you um had gotten grant money that either went to radios or I'm gonna say outfits no you're right so how did that play into this or is that for last year's uh so we got a Wildland Grant up to five thousand so not only do we have structural gear we also have Wildland forest fire gear so that's going to outfit 10 members as I said you bring up a sticking point so that's a five thousand dollar Grant but it's a matching Grant 50 50. so these grants which are great and we try sometimes you got to watch it because that's going to cost us 2500 to receive the other 2500

so I have to keep track of that so that'll take care of all of our Wildland gear but you know I I know the town had a limited line item from matching Grant type of stuff I know when we talked about generators it wasn't going to cover generators if we got a matching grant for that so these are things I have to watch out for so it was 5 000 total it's really only 2500 because you're putting in 25 yes and you'll see you'll see on the website the town and whatnot that it does say at least the truth in advertising that we received a 2500 Grant from them it's it's five but I wanted to make sure that it was true

hand up no I didn't even see it Heather I I honestly didn't even see you didn't see you sitting there I had a couple of questions so one thing that I was wondering about is line 5008 where um the dues go from 800 to 3 000 and it says that it's a fixed cost s did can you just explain that difference

money through Trio placed in that budget I I had to put it take it from other other things so all the senior members are members of the main Fire Chiefs Association that's about a hundred and a quarter you know for conferences and classes and and whatnot um I believe the dues is a thousand dollar bill just to be a member of the Cumberland County Fire Chiefs so that we can use their training and Burn Center so that's a fixed cost every year that's a thousand dollars just for that so it adds up almost to 3 000 between dues there's like four different main Fire Fighters Association I hate that cost that was 37 members that I think it's gone up to 22 members a piece it's almost insurance for those guys and they've taken uh advantage of that also

Fuel and I'm wondering if the fire department is part of the Public Works fuel contract or they don't mix do fire departments um enter into co-ops with other towns to purchase fuel the way that I believe Kelvin was explaining that the public works department does we don't enter co-ops but after I'm not sure how many months back after our contract did run out one of the members at Town Hall did get us on to the same company for the same pricing for that um as you know you know diesel went up to almost five dollars but we were a part of that contract and again one reason overspending not proud of it on December 30th I took a fuel delivery because we're on auto load and that was a 1200 bill on December 30th yeah I mean

I had a thousand left and we were uncumbering things but that was that pushed me over the top and then the next day was propane I think that's a main trick or something that I'm on to now but those last two days I'll I'll watch out for that uh so I hope that answers it Heather we're not on a co-op but we are on the same sort of pricing type of thing and it is difficult you know Calvin does a great job with road miles and snow plow it's very difficult to figure out my diesel consumption uh every truck is different and call volumes up

labor is calculated because obviously you don't know I mean you must be going off like historic um numbers to try to figure out and then like you know percentage of increase of calls um how you project what your labor cost will be um not knowing what your call volume will look like I can and I can read it across so non-emergency and that's literally roughly the full we meet every Thursday so that's roughly four trainings one night is EMS one night is truck checks one night is fire training and one night is Corporation if you will that's one hour for the guys um we start taking the average attendance in what used to have a low attendance that's morale that's membership are now roughly 12 to 17 members and it depends on EMS or fire night but we're averaging 12 to 17 members that's half the department so yes and then I take an average of pay scale so minimum wage just went up but I take an average of pay scale

and I try to rough that then there's emergencies that that's the same 30 000 as non-emergent um EMS calls again very difficult to project but EMS calls actually require less because you have a per diem on so that's less individuals so you try to take an average of how many members go to a call um times the average hourly wage same thing with stipends those are those night coverage stipends you know we'll pay someone 35 dollars to to sign up to drive sign up to be the EMT that night um those are almost all being covered there's a per diem line item of 75 000. and again that just goes on the average the per diem is is the one EMS member for 12 hours a day I'm starting to project what a 24-hour you know one person would be a second EMS at night so seven to seven would be a per diem and then seven at night to seven in the morning trying to see how many calls we do at night how many calls I have to be

in the back of the ambulance that type of stuff that's just a projection for next year um part-time salary it is what it is that that's 28 000. um and that's our allotted for our Diana or our office manager who does three days a week she does 21 hours a week so at her salary is exactly what that comes from there's two stipends um a assistant chief and the deputy chief get stipends and the fire chiefs pay uh the long-winded answer is just averages of who goes to training and average hourly wage for labor okay

well I have a couple more but I can wait some of them have to do with um Capital stuff so I can wait for that part please do okay uh go back to the newsline if we could sure let me uh let me pull pull it up uh yeah give me one second so I can pull off these five minutes I thought you'd see the bum me and give me a distracting okay um I I have a lot of those go ahead so you shared with us what the dues are I'm just for the record just there seems to still be an error on the accounting because it's saying well saying zero on the 20 the 22 budget I believe the actual cost was 2700 and under 22 actual it's saying 817.73 and yet we know because you just stated that it cost a thousand dollars to be part of Cumberland County Fire Association so I'm just questioning why those two figures haven't been revised on the revised accounting sheet um and maybe there's a maybe it's a question for Jerry if you wanted to

First several zeros in there so that just didn't get into Trio okay that's why originally that was a zero it just didn't get posted to Trio a lot of that Trio money was under labor for the budget line item do we know an actual budget number for news for 2022.

I do is it twenty seven hundred dollars because I got that from somewhere 2019. 2022 was well this is 2300 I I have what it's supposed to be 2700. that's what I found um that's the the 300 increase is what I projected from membership so what is the correct amount on the 2022 actual please

[Music] you looking at the 817 for actual is that what you're looking at yes okay um like I said we already know I'll put it I've put it elsewhere so we know that thousand we know I spent another 800 close to it on my on the fire department so 18 and 6

26 is probably actual 2600. entered to do the act the budget didn't get entered in Trio so that's why it's zero and the other 1900s guy are voted against another yes one of the other things it's in there somewhere it just didn't get coded it's a trio as do and you can see there was several of those so if we were to refer back to this next year or a year after that even the number we should be looking at you're stating you should be 2600 that's what I spent last year so going with increases and again as you know two actual I just want to make sure I have the correct number in case we have to refer to it last next year I think 2600 actual right 20. okay

the grand total is correct though the mix of it is yes different yes so we keep talking about Trio and are we confident that next year when we see this that hopefully our posting is going to be have been adjusted and it will be more accurate well you you're asking two difficult questions and I'll tell you why the fire department when I enter is not using Trio so I'm entering on a different program for actuals so who's transferring its Trio I give them a number to

all right post it to these line items and then usually the deputy Treasurer or somebody uh will post it to Trio if I don't see and they would post it themselves whether they think it's accurate or not sometimes I don't see propane bills and Diesel bills and other membership bills so it could be posted wrong as you see Trio is only good as as it's entered correct for actuals also with actuals and this is again up to date uh sort of it does depend on where I post them also the fire department posts invoices placent the fire department posts invoices on my own computer I do it all it's completely all myself although the office manager does payroll under labor but what I'm looking at why is the fire department post invoices read the accounts payable gets done right here you're just tracking I'm tracking give it to the staff and they post Trio I don't but the two the computers don't talk to each

other so we're doing double double duty here well he's not paying the invoices we are he's just tracking his own stuff it's a little uh it sounds like we why doesn't he enter in the trailer yeah he doesn't have Trio loaded on his machine we have employees that do it well I get that but so this this isn't anything new I'm surprised wouldn't it make sense to get I don't know what kind of spreadsheet you're using to enter it in but if you just were able to mimic what was going in trail that would kind of make sense like you said he doesn't see a lot of the bills yeah that company so he wouldn't be he'd only be able to do half of it because he doesn't see him yeah

enter into a trio and the Constable is done over here once it's put in he should be able to look at all that right right but entering it in the trio we don't want our fire chief getting into doing accounts payable stuff because it would take a lot of his time right and it's not just a matter of putting in a number and clicking on it um accounts payable in the lobotomist pilot it's handled by the deputy Treasurer that's that that's how it usually works unless you're a really big town and he has his own Administrative Assistant that works full-time they could help but you don't want the department head getting into tree no I don't I don't mean that I mean you're already entering something under your own tracking device so if that tracking device was Trio and then the accounts payable comes over here and they put it in anyways if he went back in to track his stuff he would have automatically see what they put in right

um wouldn't it be under the same program no because then when you when you run accounts payable you have to run warrants and the whole 99 is a whole process to paying the bills and that really needs to be handled in a central location so it can be can be tracked it's not just a simple Excel spreadsheet where your door plan that is the accounting system for the municipal municipality you want to have it centrally located in

so clarification system it or maybe the question is what may be missing you know putting words in anybody's mouth is that she's tracking it on his spreadsheet we're putting it into trios trios has got the ability to do monthly quarterly reports maybe what's missing and maybe is Chief getting a copy of his this budget for trio and saying hey wait a minute I you got me down for Calvin's fuel or or My you don't show my do is just an occasional I guess budget reconciliation is what I'm coming so what hasn't been happening here is that the department heads haven't been getting a monthly report of their expenses that should happen every month at the beginning of the month here is your February here is so they can keep track of where they are that hasn't been happening here it's it's going to start because I'm going to do it right but I mean we're in a new budget I mean that's the way it happened with the

municipality I worked at I would get a sheet every month so I could track and just another point the way the numbers Got Loaded into Trio that's not the chief's fault that they're not his numbers they're not my numbers I mean you look at the label line in his budget of 22 and look at it now you can see uh I don't know what happened I don't know why it got entered the way it is I mean the first two weeks I got here I looked at it and said well I won't tell you what I said but it wasn't right let's maybe like workman's comp is in there or something oh my God right I mean yes that's where it was finished and I asked him about that one what's going on I could just tell that the whole entry of the data was really it was it was hard for me as the manager to follow the money I'm still trying to follow it six months into it Neil we're clocks those numbers should be spot on if I enter it at the fire

department and then tell them how to code it then it should be spot on it's just exact tracking where we differ is there's about 21 line items that you're looking at but every line item gets split at my computer by 10. 10 more buckets so it's under that line item which should equal what you're looking at I agree with the actuals but then I can split it from there that matches Trio it should it should because I am the one that tells them which which line item to put it into so sometimes I don't see all of it I think some of the issues we all have right now is understanding the process we understand that there were certain some issues in the past but we're looking at how are things going to be improved in the future and Jerry's already talked about that which sounds like that's going to be some checks and balances out there so we won't be asking these same questions next year a question on Trio though

um I believe you said another time that once something's been entered into Trio and it's a mistake it can't be corrected once you load it for the year once you load in the budget for the air and push that button that becomes live that's just a budget it's not if an actual got entered incorrectly it could be fixed yeah you could Journal that back and forth absolutely change you can't change the budget in Trio not once it's you well it it takes a lot like um it doesn't take a lot but like uh the parks and rec never got loaded at all there was no money in there whatsoever voted so but there were bills being paid so you can go in there and you can add the money later through these this convoluted Journal this debit that credit this and get something I'm not a trio expert on the back side I mean I can run the reports I can load a budget of the accounting side taking it from this debit and putting it over in

this credit that's that's just beyond my expertise and Trio but it can't be done we had to do it we it took us a few hours to figure it out we've been taking a lot of hours to figure out stuff and stuff to try to make it whole this year other questions regarding the operating budget yeah so are you keeping your own spreadsheet just as a checks and balance because the main office hasn't been doing it reliably or did you inherit this process from past Chiefs in this town the process has been inherited um they should equal so whatever I spend and and whatever a

line item or bucket I put it into should be loaded into the the same line item again on occasion you know there's bills that I don't see and that's a communication breakdown that will be fixed uh Jerry talks about it and there's more checks and balances to come I know he was going to look at almost every um accounts receivable as an extra just to sign off just to make sure that the fire chief the department heads are putting it where it needs to be I mean it's really easy under diesel right and it's really easy well you would have thought under electric but you know there's some other equipment maintenance you know you would think that's about a pumper truck getting fixed that's testing a ladder that's you know that's that's getting our SCBA air compressor certified there's a lot more to to it that's that's buying an oxygen mask so we're trying to clean those things up they just they just take

time they take time and cooperation really and and style and I think what she was referring to with his budget like he has a line item man but under that line item in his spreadsheet is other lines under that like for instance we'll take public works as utility budget he has cable internet propane all under his utilities line so

the budgets that I'm used to and I'd like to bring here is more of a three-tier system where you have the department category and subcategory so under the fire and Public Works in here you'll have fuel but then you're going to identify what fuel propane heating oil K1 what and right now it's not currently set up that way so if he had to go or he wanted to know or I wanted to know exactly what he paid for gasoline it's a much more it's not that high but you're going to run the whole utilities line for the whole year and pick out all the gas and do the math whereas if it was just done correctly you just bring up that number gasoline and boom you know what he's paid so the the the long the short story we got a lot of clean we got a lot of cleaning out to do with the budget that's just I mean it's been it's been hard Jane um I just wanna review on on the worklands comp and I think you probably already told me but I

don't recall so it's basically it says that it's um her MMA calculations um but is that because it was pulled out from the labor line that it's so huge compared to what was budgeted what's up it was it was put into the labor line that's where I took it back out of right because it's a zero-sum budget but but that's where it was there was actually three of them workers comp FICA Medicare so I don't set any of those I don't see any of those those three are up 14 and a half percent those come from the town manager so and

then he will explain exactly how they're calculated which I don't see so you work with MMA so you're 22 it got loaded I don't know why it got voted the way it does but fire has 52 percent of our work is gone our workman's comp annual bill is right around ninety seven thousand dollars they get 52 percent clearly in 22 that's a lot less than 50. so I can't answer to why it got put in that way uh where it's it's put in there right now um as a matter of fact um I got a call from MMA wanting to come talk because they didn't get their numbers last year to calculate it right so they charged us sixteen thousand more dollars which we had to pay until they got the right numbers once they got the right numbers they gave us a thirty one thousand dollar check back okay so workman's comp works you pay what it is so at the end of the year if we overpay they pay us back if we're underpay we have to cut them a check but that was one of the

first lines I noticed because I knew that workman's comp wasn't right I mean yeah and so it really made because when I first got the budget and I looked at the bottom we were like way overspent just because of the way it was loaded and I'm asking people what's what's going on here and I mean we're figuring it out as we go um but that's what that's what happened there it just I I don't know I don't know what I don't know if the budget was 48 000.

okay that's why we were told right and that's you all understand the that's a calculation from them right and that's just really uh Diana just did it for this year they want to know how many are on the ambulance how many firefighters total how many would go inside because there's support firemen there's interior firemen um you know melts like a driver operator so they want to know the risk of those 37 members and they attach a dollar sign to that and that's how that comes out it's like a it's like a base estimator yeah and whether it's more or less yeah so that and you know if if you add an injury uh we had one you know out of 521

responses we had one injury at the station that was non-reportable so you know you're talking structure fires and running lights and Sirens thank you um it's a non-reportable injury so that's where you don't have to report it to like workers comp why not uh their criteria there's a whole criteria if it's reportable to workers comp or not reportable type of thing like slips and falls and accidents wouldn't be uh you know back strains on a fire would-be type of stuff but they have their own criteria okay our workman's comp is high we're working trying to get that now

work policy if there's when you do those things in MMA you get some reductions from your rate so you said with Trio that we plan to do a three-tier system we plan to get it in but we're technically heading into our second month of this year so I'm curious is it the hopes that the 2023 will have it the way you want to have it or you think so it'll be 2024. okay so I kind

of want to try and just bring it back to the fire department budget and because I'm sure every budget we look at we're going to be having questions and so if it's a trio error I think we just have to trust the the town um but does anybody have questions about the fire department budget so that we can continue our discussion just one more Yep go ahead Heather uh so

that it was Capital but there is an operating expense line [Music] if the chief if we vote to get the chief a truck um there's a Chief's expense and I'm wondering what happens to that if he gets the truck so Chief's expense is actually a contractual that's gear uniforms going

to trainings um I can look up more that's actual contractual in labor I'm paid 300 a month for the use of flat rate for the use of my personal vehicle so that would go away so in theory that's 3600 and that would you know offset fuel if that increased for for and again I know that lab that Capital said Chief vehicle I must correct everyone that's a fire department utility vehicle that's an EMS vehicle that's not that's not a Tahoe that's not a command vehicle that's a pickup truck or a utility vehicle for the fire department just so happens I'll be the main driver but that that fuel and whatnot will be offset by by not paying me the 300. Chief's expense is is different Heather and if if you want the the breakdown of those I'll give it to you

in the labor line right now yes it does yep so oh no problem yep that's under I found education clothes that type of stuff Chief expense and I think I kept under that pretty close I like to look good any other questions go ahead do we want to I guess my question is do we want to make a motion at the end of each budget or do we want to wait till we hear everything and then vote on each section I know that we've done it different ways different years well the whole thing without having a draft warrant here I'm assuming that this 522 470 is going to have its own foreign article and I therefore I would be voting on that and as we go through each individual Department I would say that we should be voting on each individual one okay my opinion I mean because because it corresponds to the article okay there is Verge on the articles in one of the many computer spreadsheets we gotta get where it is the one that stated 127

yeah Kevin said you know but I don't think there's any language in there about the the budget articles you're right that's correct that's correct Mr chairman yes sir I move we uh I guess appropriates the right word appropriate 522 470 for the fire department second so it's been moved by Neil and seconded by Alan that we appropriate or raise 522

522 470 for the fire department uh operational budget any discussion I have a question um I've been the chairman of the select board is mentioned a couple times and maybe my stupidity I haven't been able to grab hold it's in the past we have voted on like so much is going to be raised and so much is going to be appropriated but we're not doing that this year so how how are we doing it well the ones that are going into the funds that are like the Telecommunications funds everyone that that's going to be but what we're going to do is list the revenues and then what the what we have for expenditures and the difference will be raised in taxes so it's not going to be listed worn by warrant it's just going to be like a summary on the back page the funding source is not going to be listed by the law like in other words like excise tax and this is going towards Public Works it's just all going to be listed you

have your revenues you've got your expenditures and the difference will be raised in taxes okay so again I'm still confused so I apologize so under the warrant question are we going to have transfer of funds doesn't but not saying where it's coming from x amount raise x amount to get to 522 470 okay thank you

I'm not going to have that no we're going to list it and part of the reason is it's going to be your own little circus article but the whole Revenue list is gonna be put in the in the warrant now why are we doing it that way because it's easier simpler it's simpler it's a common wise accounting wise it's easier and technically if you don't raise that money for that particular article you can't spend it so like buying the trio software for twenty one thousand if we designate the revenue towards go that and we haven't collected it yet technically we can't spend it too but to purchase that so we're kind of in a really unique situation this is a very unique situation for me because we're operating on a budget that hasn't even passed yet so we're spending the money regardless so that there's there must is there going to be an article that specifically addresses the revenues yes that are going to reduce the taxation yes okay

so we have a new warrant number okay and Heather has her hand up sure go ahead thank you Mel I have two questions about this um one the language the way that the article reads determines whether or not the amount can be raised or lowered or whatever on the floor and so I have I think I have brought this up before but I was curious about how it will work if the question says to see what some then the dollar

amount can change um I can't remember the wording for if it's a closed funding article and so I I questioned that and then also um was hold on go ahead somebody else though gonna put that placeholder on that we can talk about that one but then the other one was if if we do it this way and we get to the end and I'm just using the number that the select board chairs threw out which was the two hundred thousand dollars for the undesignated funds and and that's its own separate thing to transfer two hundred thousand dollars from undesignated and that's necessary to cover the spending that we're gonna that we're putting out there what happens if the town votes know to transferring the undesignated but they've already approved the other budget budget articles then I feel like we're in that special meeting situation that we were in before if that happens if the people voted not to use those those funds then the tax

increase would be even more so it would have to be raised yeah if you're not transferring the funds then you have to raise it in taxation which raises a whole bunch of other questions in my mind but I don't want to go there well well as long as people understand that when they're voting it's one thing I mean these but usually an article is to see what some will be raised and are appropriated then the recommendation comes from the Selectmen and also from the budget committee the number is not within the article because usually with its within the article then you have a lot of problems that's why they don't put specifically put it within the article but from what you're saying Heather I I honestly believe that if we voted down not to use those Revenue funds you have to you've appropriated it somewhere you're gonna have to raise it in taxation right right okay

on the foreign article reads if it if the situation where we are allowing the dollar amount to change on the floor all right do we know what the plan is are we allowing the number to be changed on the floor or is this a set number yeah it's the way you've always done your town meeting if that's the way you know anybody anybody it's based on the wording so I'm curious to know we're changing things with the warrant so I think that was Heather's question too are we changing that also or are we sticking with the same old same old oh [Music]

just all the revenues rather than listing the revenue Source per article the revenues are still there and they're estimated you know because we don't know what we're going to we're using this Revenue this year so even the revenue number could be wrong we might collect more of that year so it's just an easier accounting just to list it and go that route so I know it's a little bit of a change but it's most towns do it that way when when I saw how you were doing it I called up a few of my town managers and they said I've never even heard of okay doing it the way you're doing it they said just list your revenues and then you'll have your expenditures and the difference is what you raise in tax and the plan is to still have the wording so that if a Town's person wants to change the amount they can put it up as an amendment to change the amount okay it would be more than likely it would be a talents person

changing the recommendation of the select board or the recommendation of the budget committee right okay Jane um I just want a little clarification um on in the past if they had funds that came from the undesignated right I'm going to transfer it over if we didn't use those funds they went back into undesignated right I just want to make sure that we're not we're still going to have the ability so that it doesn't stay in those individuals budgets

should be line item it doesn't get transferred into their Capital Savings it goes into undesignated as long as it wasn't capital or even if it was cattle I think if we yeah if we vote to put something into Capital reserves or if we vote like on the truck if we vote to spend 60 000 and he's able to find something for twenty thousand then that 40 000 stays in the capital account it doesn't go into undesignated but all the operating budgets now go into undesignated if they're unspent okay so I guess my thought was if you had this big chunk of money for the town because now it wasn't specifically saying that you're putting debt undesignated in there um

chief comes in under his budget but because there's extra money does that give the authority to the town manager to spend it on something else okay now it goes back in um did you still yeah because you still only gave each individual Department their budget right so if they go over their budget even though they're like well Paul had an extra 20 000 so I just used Paul's money we at next year have to vote to approve that Peter spent Paul's money if anyone wants to see what we're talking about it's on the it's on the uh budget impact spreadsheet and on the tax

impact tab in the upper left-hand Corner did Kevin do this to us yeah he's a good job yeah yeah he did yeah so it's pretty simple and it shows it shows what the designated fund does to you know the budget I understand that piece my my thought was that if it wasn't time no

you I mean it even really has to pass the straight phase test within the roaches apartment you know that we raised and appropriate 522 470 000 uh for the fire department operational budget all those in favor and I abstained and historically abstains

sure somebody saw her vote um while the chief is here he's hitting us um because Capital yeah um and you you kind of hinted at the answer a couple minutes ago but so this vehicle is not it'll be driven by you most of the time but it'll be living at the fire department so now when you get a call you'll have to go to the fire department and pick it up no the vehicle will be a utility vehicle so I will drive it predominantly I will drive it home I will drive it to work I respond 24 7. so I respond from home

fifty percent of the time right that's one of the questions so I I it will be a Chief's daily driver unless he's on prolonged vacation and then it'll be parked at the firehouse where it's appropriate if other members need to take it for schooling for um you know four or five go in March to a Chiefs Association mean certainly can take it it's appropriate it needs to be a utility because it also needs to tow the boat but we only have one truck that can tow um and as you know I I respond first in on a lot of motor vehicle accidents structure fires that type of stuff so it'll be the chief's daily driver whoever the fire chief is um so and again contractually you have to live within 10 miles of the Border there's other parameters it will not be for personal use um so I think the way I when in my field if I'm

on call I'm on call I can go to the grocery store and pick up the groceries for my family but I'm on call I can go and get my hair cut but I might have a half a shaved head because I was on call so is that kind of the case with you too like you'll still be using it to run personal errands because you're always on call it I foresee a policy being written above me so that's at the Town manager level for for use I I don't know if Calvin has that I don't know if the town has that I am all the fire chief might be different than anything else always on call it's 24 7 never off the phone's not off you're on call but luckily I have a side life so the wife likes to go to Whole Foods I'm not taking the fire chief's car to Whole Foods because she wants to go and I'm being serious doors are going to get things yeah she likes to go you know tops them there's not a lot of services in Durham so it you're gonna have to

adhere to a policy and adhere to to moral and ethical um exactly you know character of what's appropriate um and it's not it's not about going to get a haircut it's not it's a currently I do have lights and a siren in my personal truck is why I'm using it so so that's okay that's a Fail-Safe fall back on but if it has to do with Durham fire department or any of its um [Music] attachments whether that's a mutual Aid or a training it could be used for that okay the reason why I ask is to get an idea of like mileage that would be put on it too sure and I haven't the reason I went with a flat rate that is not in my favor it was just easier at the time for for the contract negotiations as you know gas is fluctuated high and low I'm sure I'm on the losing end of that I don't have mileage uh because that's call volume you know some weeks are slower than others we've done 41 calls for this month Durham's 39 square miles

you know and I'm at the top of of the town going the other way um so we put on a lot of miles I I couldn't I couldn't tell you which I can tell you you know call volume after that seven to four you know that normal day really um but I I I'd only guesstimate it much right right yes uh I will speak in favor of this I mean as as a personal example of some somebody uh I won't say they're drunk up or whatever or took out a pole in front of in front of my property in Chief when the crews were at another fire he came over in his vehicle so I think there is a deed and there are multiple times when people respond where the crews are busy during an ambulance run they're loaned out to another town so I think this is this is a good idea and I think I'm very supportive of it thank you John it's more than getting the chief to the scene it really is it's protecting I usually protect the scene of a car accident that's 52 car

accidents last year usually on icy snow-packed roads I just don't want my personal car to be smoked from the next driver coming in sideways you you know what I mean um there is air I mean there's deer in town it's just it really is at this call volume and and full-time Chief inappropriate to be used in a personal vehicle for liability and honestly I hate to admit it but you know going out of town picking up people at the hospital there's a lot of things I do that that fly under the radar that it needs a town vehicle with Town Insurance type of thing it's moving civilians equipment you know gear that type of stuff man should share how you're going to build this have this built you know the pickup end of the so it's I I tried to

keep it cost effective either we get a used vehicle or a newer um I'd like to mimic what I have I have a a doesn't matter the brand but a crew cab it's four doors you can put your gear in the back we have hose to load we have gear that that's you know contaminated so it needs a back it needs a pickup back or a utility back I have first aid equipment paperwork I have a fire extinguisher in my back seat um Wildland gear um a four gas meter I have tools of respondent first in on structure fires medical calls car wrecks that type of stuff if I can afford a utility body like a reading they're called Redding as the brand that has three sort of doors on either side that would be more equipment so a defibrillator oxygen that type of small hand tools lighting purposes so it's a utility vehicle I I'm traveling from one end of town to the other bringing when we have simultaneous calls other members and again civilians

that type of stuff so um it will be lettered for Durham fire it'll be uh with emergency lights and a siren but it's a town asset it's the fire chief gets to drive it predominantly but it's a town asset um and we don't have that but every other Town not trying to be like them has some type of utility from Lisbon to Brunswick it doesn't matter which one so you can throw gear and and Frozen equipment and hose in the back or contaminated you just do because you don't want it in the ambulance you don't want it in your pump or truck there's no room for that so it really isn't because they're

um I know that when we have briefly talked about this last year there was discussion around Calvin's truck being repurposed I should say the road commissioner sorry the road Commissioners truck being repurposed as the fire chief or the fire department's utility truck uh can somebody move that water bottle because I'm looking at Sheets through a water bottle the whole time thanks

a little bit so I was looking at the inventory of the Town vehicles and I'm not 100 sure if the 2008 is currently the truck that the road commissioner drives or if the 2015 is the truck that the road commissioner drives I'm just wondering was there extensive discussion about repurposing um the road commissioner's truck as your vehicle this cycle or did that just get

dismissed and we're going in a different route no there was extensive discussion on that I believe his is the 2015. so he's coming on eight years old I know he's in line on his own capital for replacement soon uh whatever that's a year or two out um because he does salt because he does a lot of plowing his in the short term year would have worked but now it's you know high mileage it has a plow it's a 2500 series it's a little beefier than I need um it's really not appropriate for what we're looking for um talking it over with the town manager you know that that truck does have rust and it has issues now and mileage usually a Chief's vehicle is more than a

10-year asset it's usually more than a hundred thousand more than a 10-year Chiefs vehicles or utility vehicles fire department Vehicles get taken better care of sometimes they're in the bay they get washed more they get maintenance more that type of stuff so I I can't speak for the road commissioner but that one just wasn't gonna work as far as vehicles and I know the town manager has his own thoughts on it yeah so if if we were going to repurpose Vehicles it should be switched where the buyer the one that belongs to the fire department should go to public works and have them beat it up and when it's done taking up behind the garage and shoot it versus the way they're doing it now because the fire department with that new truck is going to wash it wax it it's not going to get the miles and get beat up so that's where you'd want to switch it and give it to Public Works apply with and that sort of thing it's

like it really is a completely different animal really then then then what they both really need to do what they're looking to do with it budget uh capital budget which won't be tonight um thank you I recognize every year and based on meetings I'm watching I might have a partner in crime um have you guys looked into Leasing no so I haven't looked into leasing so as far as the purchase itself um again a discussion with the town manager at the time I have looked if I I don't think you all did you all get the proposals right you did for the capital project I did look into three Avenues and again for people at home I looked into a donation through through business people in town I looked at um State Surplus and I looked at Federal military surplus and couldn't come up with something that really fit the bill but do they do leasing of utility fire trucks show that's difficult they do leasing of

vehicles because this is a smaller vehicle however when you start drilling holes in the roof for antennas and light bars they frown on that right so that's the difficulty of it as far as the purchase though and I appreciate the Avenue I think that's the discussion with with you know the town manager and the powers to be as far as paying for it um I just knew that when I put forth either Arbor or we had money in our capital reserve for that for fire department for that okay Bill yes sir would you have this you mentioned a reading body would it be aluminum preferably because it tends to rot there's something that's in the shop all the time it's going to get moisture it's not the rust whereas aluminum they're a little bit more but for whatever reason 10 years down the road you can probably swap that onto another truck correct so I I I've had the Junior Firefighters looking at those we've looked at used

there are several used options in the area crew cab or extended cab with a riding body again having being more if if it doesn't fit in that budget we were going to go with a pickup truck you know flat crew cab pickup truck and again that's not the bigger engine that's not leather seats that's not heated that's you know usually the stripped down models just to get from point A to point borrow all that stuff take me shopping with you

actually able to not get carpeting in his pickup truck uh at least it could be an option again I just to defer to the powers to be that would make that decision yeah does anyone know what towns our size that have part-time Chiefs or not full-time Chiefs sure I do um so badass has a part-time fire chief he was offered full-time but he's part-time he actually has a vehicle um Tylenol really doesn't count talking with Jesse he he's a flat rate fee and then per call but every other fire department around all full-time all with vehicles um what's that green is full time

I I didn't go as far as green I just did the circle that really touched a good good match for us I I don't know that I didn't look into vehicles I I don't know that isn't it based on the need though I mean versus what other towns have well the need I was going to be similar I I mean you know I think that's a rabbit hole Neil if if I look at it and and the fire chief makes a hundred thousand in green does that mean I get a pay raise in a vehicle he doesn't [Laughter] um as far as as far as I know I'm pretty good with vehicles as far as apparatus and whatnot almost every fire department has some type of utility vehicle just to run people around we don't have anything uh um I mean people are taking the brush truck it's inappropriate to whether that's to go get lunch or whether that's to tow or whether that's just to run people across town you know that's a heavy duty truck it's a brush truck it's

it's really not appropriate for for a lot of those things question is the the circle that you know touches Durham um as far as utilities and and what they drive everyone that um it was the select boards uh recommendation uh their vote to appropriate and transfer sixty thousand dollars for this vehicle from the fire department the capital or Sarah

discussed it coming from arpa it would be the Arc of money that they've appropriate is in Europe tax impacts but she's appropriate it's covered in Orange Point to this well according to the printout it stated that the Opera funds would be used for the exhaust removal equipment at the fire station for the Quint fire truck refurbishing and the exhaust is the two things for every guy in the fire department that would ease up the opportunity but the response vehicle would be transferred from a fire department capital

are we voting on something well we have to what we do are we going to agree with the board's recommendation or we're going to have our we have a different recommendation it's an article whether we if we want to vote on it tonight separate from each each capital is an article yeah

read this the uh just uh to approve the uh verbiage that on the the selectment provided which is to see if the town will vote to appropriate transfer sixty thousand dollars on the fire department Capital reserves fund for the purchase of a fire chief EMS rapid response vehicle is there a second I'll second it so it's been moved by John and seconded by myself uh that the town appropriates and transfers sixty thousand dollars from the fire department Capital reserves funds for the purchase of a fire chief slash EMS rapid response vehicle opening up a discussion

Heather's Heather do we know the balance in the fire department capital reserve yes I just saw it I believe it was I believe it was 220. front of us uh which is capital reserve 220 221 401. of that account there the rest of them are coming from arpa that's not correct they are also the select what are also recommending that 32 800 also get transferred from the

fire department capital reserve fund for the replacement generator at the fight Department okay okay thank you further discussion it's been moved and seconded that the town appropriates and transfers sixty thousand dollars from the fire department capital reserve fund for the purchase of a fire chief slash EMS rapid response vehicle levels in favor please indicate so all those opposed abstain so it's voted I Heather your vote everybody in favor okay so the vote was eight zero one

the other while we're talking about the capital reserve fund it is the select boards recommendation that we appropriate and transfer thirty two thousand eight hundred dollars from that fund for the purchase of a replacement generator

note it's on a computer line 23 it is it says fire chief EMS vehicle on line 23 but that's really the generator correct okay uh I gotta find the line it would be well line I'm showing it as line 46 on the budget worksheet

listened to the select board meaning that they chose to push that out um was that for the town hall think you did it at our previous meeting but this I helped the cause um this is a larger generator that um is going to be replacing the current 20 year old Generator did you want to tell us a little bit about that again one more time uh sure the original I

believe was a grant appropriation you know roughly around September 11 2001 so we're on 22 years old uh it has had preventative maintenance every year I'm told you can see in your packet you know engine hours 726 I'm told there's not a magic engine hour you know it's not a thousand or or whatnot it's really about repairs and recently it was failure to start we've had a computer module upgrade um it is a caterpillar so you know that

they are still making some parts if you can get it that's the difficulty of it but it's failure to start several times so we're starting to really put more money into it it is an infrastructure item as far as the firehouse uh it is larger than the one proposed for the town office um because there will be electrical upgrades so you know if the exhaust Primal vents pass that that's more electrical that needs to be tapped into there uh garage door there's just more overhead and when you have a heating and cooling system um and the station you know is 60 years old in in Spurs the last edition of 20 years ago so that all needs to be tied in but the request for proposal and there'll be three of them uh the average was the 32-8 on it um that's when they come they take it part it out put in a new one upgrade the Electrical uh and that's you know certified inspected by the state because it's a commercial size electrical

um so that was sort of all in but we found it to be starting to fail uh it's an automatic switch um and just uh and for clarification just a card for what he said so they haven't gone out to bid for this yet so if this gets approved and you know looking next year we'll be reviewing the budget those who stay on um and you might see a different figure higher or lower understand that this is a placeholder it could end up being a little bit more could end up being you know if it's coming lower then we might it might be a little bit less but what size is it yeah they were looking at a a 48 KW

from I think at 26 but yes close Okay do we ever like um and this may be crazy but do you ever try to like sell it or when you said part it out what does that mean do they take parts and sell the parts or what happens to the generator that's left behind part of the the bid is is removal of complete removal wealth no we haven't uh I'm not in that side of the business as far as you know trying to get 500 bucks or a thousand no it's a great question because everybody yes I mean this is me right Craigslist I mean can somebody use that if that's the Avenue the the um you know bosses above me want to do we can certainly look into that sometimes the towns like this don't like to take on the liability of you know used sort of equipment now you can put in sealed bids as is come look at it um that's just above me again powers to be I take my direction from you know I'm just curious there's something that

actually works so I asked that question I have bought one contacts that I have in the generator world and they said for the age of it because I asked well why can't we just go from here over to here and he's like for the age of it it's you don't want to do that it's not worth it right did you get a quote for 32 000. I did yep what brand I I don't have that in front of me esm I don't know right so uh we're going from a 26 to a 48 yeah is that does that meet the basic needs is that size to meet future capacity what what is that 48 getting us that was both because in 0-1

um some of that addition wasn't there so that is upgraded electrical needs and there should be I'm told I'm not the generator expert that that would have more capacity if we either had an ad on a bay or God forbid overnight accommodations or whatnot but that would be for future needs right so so we have that there is room yes yeah we wouldn't be maxed out with it thank you uh Heather do you have something yeah I just had a question about since this is just um a quote and if it ends up coming in more how does it work out of capital reserve if we put that amount on the warrant

and that's what approved and then the the price tag is more than what happens I think it's kind of like the stream Crossing it doesn't get done Jerry well it's impossible to get that number exact now when you're not going to buy it until August I don't know so I'm just are we sure there were asked we're asking for enough and we're not gonna get in a situation where we can't get the work done because we didn't ask for enough do you see what I'm saying I do and that's and it's it's and that's a great question I think we put in what the quote that we got was right Chief I mean that's what they quoted us for this generator so it's really just a budget number but again it's a it is a placeholder you know we'll have to figure that out on the time it really is a good question Heather to follow up on it you know if if the quotes come in higher you know how high are we willing to go if you know what if the quote ends up being 50

000. but are we allowed to go higher no no I don't think we are because we approve this amount if it's a vote of the Town you're not allowed to to go higher it would just be tabled if you've got a quote isn't that a quote why but it's only good for 30 days

used the same company to do the town one here and they could do a smaller one at the firehouse no I was thinking I was thinking more lives with Heather's talk and make sure if we if that generate is that bad as causing to fail that often we need to make sure that we don't get in the middle of halfway put together and now we can't finish the job that's why I'm correct it was more money correct if there was one that was higher as much as I don't like spend money I'd rather be safe than sorry again when things go out for quotes different than requests for proposals trying to I think the town has leverage when we go to purchase so there'll be a request for proposal I believe our policy is at least three you know when it's over a certain dollar amount if you can Garner three sometimes it may be only two generator companies that are willing to bid on it but we'll try and then you pit them against each other like hey you

know we may have another one coming down depending on votes um if they're all higher than than at least we could possibly step back to kilowatt of the generator I mean that really doesn't increase the generator itself you know when you go from you know 26s and 30s and 48s that that's slightly bigger but it's not exactly it's yeah it's literally you know install an electrical and whatnot but a lot of the infrastructure is there luckily so the pad is there you know they might have to upgrade electrical the fuel is there propane but again depending on how how old that line is and what they say um but we could Garner competition into your your point um if anyone's business I think everyone's a business person in here it quotes are very difficult you know what used to be good for year are down to 30 days and they'll put right in it or Market fluctuation I mean on everything and that's from a fire helmet to gear to a

generator to tires if you've seen even fuel Jill um Joe or Jerry I just double checked my notes from the last selectman's meeting and it was in there that the generator was proposed by the chairman to come out of arfa funds so can you Enlighten us as

to what led to the changes changes well at the last select board meeting [Music] um it was recommended by the chairman that the Quint rehab the fire department generator come out of the arpa funds department generator is going to come out of reserves Heather said she remembered go ahead Heather

may be potential grant money mingle our grant money and so if this comes out of Reserve then we could still apply for the grant I think that's what I remember but that's okay I I was focusing that just on the town hall generator so thank you heather that makes sense you also have a question Heather

that correctly actually if if there were Grant if there's Grant potential involved did there was a grant potential through County EMA um for generators uh that was a 50 50 matching I've looked into it that has passed um Sometimes they come up that that's not a yearly reoccurring one um I believe the last two were on a grant but that was after September 11th and I believe that was a different time for the country um but I didn't I just cautioned everyone grants are fantastic but but we get into the nuances as I said before a 50 50 matching of even garnering it there's no guarantee you'll even get it I I just didn't want to be on the hook on such an important facility of of waiting for a grant or um timing or not getting it um honestly I'm going this route and and part of why I

feel that way is because of what happened last year when we talked about the AC and so I would just ask and I know that you will um because you definitely do your due diligence when it comes to these things um that we are obviously seeking out those opportunities and by not using the arba funds um to do this if the that was part of what the problem was the last time right it was that um you couldn't mix mingle fonts and so we would have missed our window if we were waiting for approval of the grant dollars and so I would just like to stay in that lane if that you know has been the precedent that we've set before so that we don't get in a position where there is potential grant funding that we can't use because we've chosen to pay for something like this out of ARCA dollars that's that's my input on this this particular item uh with that I'll entertain a motion could I ask one more question there was

a lot of concern I agree with it about is whatever it was 32 8 enough are you comfortable that that's and I and I hear that the world may change but if it's not now is the time to go at 10 sure and again I don't want to spend extra money but I hate to spend if this is so important approve 32-8 and have it be 45

000 and you don't get a generator John I I appreciate the sediment um that was my due diligence getting a getting a quote I will try to use competition and keep them at that because I think we could do that on on every Capital we talk about whether that's a utility vehicle or you know a a queen or a dump truck so I will make it happen I will make a motion please if I can read this correctly

appropriate and transfer 32 800 from the fire department Capital reserves funds for the purchase of a generator it's been moved by John seconded by Alan that we appropriate that the town appropriate and transfer is thirty two thousand eight hundred dollars from the fire department capital reserve fund for the purchase of a replacement generator at the fire department any discussion

to our thousand eight hundred dollars from the fire department capital reserve fund for the purchase of a replacement generator for the fire department all those in favor of this motion please indicate so all those opposed is uh unanimous nine

zero are you voted on this one and you're allowed to vote it's not I'm not on the payroll I mean I'm on a payroll but I'm not this doesn't have to do with your operations so Chief I would recommend the boy Electric what is it deploy electric deploy electric d-u-b-l-o-i-s and I would not buy a Generac if you're going to esm that's what's been there slowly electric okay because there's better ones out there and not a Generac okay I go with Kohler that's Uncle the boys okay

I put in a generator last year myself bathtub and I went out to three different people and it was funny because some of them came in they said I said what kind are you going to put I gotta put it in the cola I said all right that's fine they give you a price I said what about Generac and he said well we put them in and we will but we have metal aquacoma so okay so the next guy comes in and he's going to put in the generator okay so what about a cola do you put those in he said we can and we will if that's what you want we have better luck with Generac so it's really all depends on what they're selling is right and I'm gonna I'm gonna request that this discussion would move to another meeting that's not our role but our role is to vote on two more items that are related to the uh the fire department and in this case the two requests will are attached to um the American Rescue plan also known

as Opera funding uh the first one being the exhaust removal equipment at the fighter station the the select board has recommended to appropriate fifty thousand dollars from the from Opera funds to uh purchase the exhaust removal equipment for the fire station have any questions for the fighter chief

budget what you this is difficult because I prepare for the CIP committee and and we meet at the station I get to walk them through the station and really get to visualize what these are so I apologize but what I do have for all of you um is

um and it's taken the the 49-page executive summary of what arpa should be used for and I broke it down to the fire department is there enough copies I believe so you know you don't have to read I'm sorry Heather but I'll give you the executive of the executive summary because I know I know you were on top of the the executive summary of it honestly the recipients can use it for Opera specifically funds programs Services Capital expenditures that respond to the public health and negative economic impacts of the pandemic that's quoted recipients may use the funds to restore and bolster public sector capacity which

supports government's ability to deliver critical covid-19 services and there's more I actually broke it down to revenue lost by the fire department which is your Revenue the ambulance Revenue goes into undesignated and have proven with these numbers that through covet the years that Wayne and whatnot revenues are down so that's really where with us this ARCA funds really started with and that's what I'm trying to do and that's why I asked for extra um this year is because of those Arbor funds uh and where they should be used and I have a copy for you Heather we'll get you one um but I digress so so that was handed out to the CIP committee and explained really um my thoughts and the executive summary on arpa funding and the fire department Revenue has been down um because of that [Music] foreign

go to appropriate fifty thousand dollars from the American Rescue plan funds Opera funds received from the town by the federal government for the following project exhaust removal equipment for the fire station is there a second second it's been moved by Neil and seconded by John that we

appropriate the town appropriates fifty thousand dollars from the are for funding received by the town from the federal government for the purpose of purchasing an exhaust removal equipment at the fire station let's let's call it what uh one common name is Plymouth

event so we don't necessarily want to use that are there others who do it uh there are one or two others that that just happens to be common terminology it's almost like a Band-Aid it's like Xerox yes Kleenex um uh discussion we're showing a rage

I have a question yes that needed to be done to check the box last year in order to work towards grants for overnight accommodations and that type of thing is this the thing that was the box that needs to be checked that were not one of the things that we haven't done

cannot apply for this grant yes your memory is spot on so we don't have enough overnight accommodations there's probably a large investment in the um modular Outback to make that so um as I told the townspeople this isn't sexy but we've kicked the can down the road the diesel exhaust is cancer-causing it gets on the gear it gets on the medical equipment it gets on the firefighters uh we're actually mandated by NFPA chapter 9 1500 to capture at the source so that's at the at the muffler a hundred percent of of the extraction we've just been waiting and waiting to maybe Garner a grant maybe that's where we're headed but but that's just not reality currently so arpa funds the one-time use for infrastructure I thought what was a perfect time to to get this in place for the fire department and for the members Jane are there any residual fees that go along with us like every year to year that would increase

the budget next year no you're questioning is incredibly insightful uh about it it really is um no so it's it's one and done it doesn't have to be checked correct it's installed it comes with a warranty it's actually a basic what it is and again the visual for the CIP works it's just special tubes that run along the ceiling they come down they drop right into your exhaust and they actually travel with you so the trucks start up it's all captured there's nothing you need to do there's an air compressor but everything's done it rides all the way out and it automatically comes off on the outside right at the doorway uh you can start the trucks on the inside you can warm them up you can work on them in the winter months and you actually save heating costs because now you're not just sucking all that cold air into like we do now but we are mandated to do this

um kitchen Hood like a commercial kitchen if you would but it's yeah on the most basic level but it is attached to the truck because we have to capture 100 at the source which is the which is the exhaust like a dust collector yeah is it a vacuum of sorts or is it or is it just a whole continuation of the exhaust pipe to outside it is it does pull a negative thing it does pull a negative vacuum to the outside the whole system so you could start all six at the same time um but it does capture it and it's held on with air pressure on like a rubber boot if you will to the exhaust they make them specific for the six trucks that we have uh they do all the install

um and again request for a proposal this was the one from climo event that I got all right so just asking a question based on the fact that the public may ask this sure you go to a repair shop for your vehicle and they just have a rubber hose they attach the exhaust and they get a hole in their garage door and they stick it outside um somebody may ask wouldn't that just be cheaper what happens when you're about the garage door um right that works when when apparatus or vehicles are are in park idling and that's not what we're trying to capture we need to start up diesel trucks that haven't been started in a day or two that are older diesel that don't have the Next Generation type of um death fluid and whatnot and we need to capture it all the way out so so it needs to be attached as the apparatus leaves the bay and then when the apparatus comes back in the bay it needs to be attached at that point which is

what it's built for okay no yes I think to be fair to your question though Jane there is maintenance costs associated with this it's not it's piece of equipment it'll need to be maintained it's going to be a maintenance cost in the like they'll slide down so I'm familiar with these over 30 years in multiple States and multiple fire houses 30 firehouses uh very limited maintenance that firefighters could do so so you are talking about an air compressor but you know how much maintenance does an air compressor you know really take um I just envisioned this tube in the back of the like say the muffler or whatever and the truck pulls out and it stays attached that ruins that mechanism no that's a great question they have a breakaway they have dealt with firefighters they know we can break these things so it is engineered to break away that I could do it well and if firemen could break it I'm sure it

will try before we get into too much more detail I call the question good [Music] so I have to do you have to do a vote to follow the question um so it has been town appropriates fifty thousand dollars from town from the federal government for the purchase of exhaust removal equipment at the fire station all those in favor please indicate all those opposed it's unanimous nine to zero and we have one more to go for the chief

it was the select board's recommendation you know that the town appropriates 125 000 from those same Opera funds uh to uh refurbish the Quint which is also known as our ladder truck questions to the chief I make a motion we're going to discuss afterwards anyways right so go ahead I make a motion that we appropriate 125 000 from the arpa funds received by the town from the federal government for the following project Quint fire truck refurbishing is there a second oh second it's been moved by Jill and seconded by John that the town appropriates 125 000 from the

Opera funds received by the town from the federal government for the purpose of refurbishing the quint's fire truck to any discussion keep the truck for another seven to ten years replace this vehicle with and that lovely discussion so I'm all for it

probably here right in front of me when was that truck scheduled to industry is 30 years so that's next year it would literally be scheduled to be replaced so was that on your Five-Year Plan that that's always been actually it was it had been moved up so I inherited uh uh you know a capital plan and when I

saw that and the price of of quince even used Quince I last year moved that out and talked about rehabbing it that's where this whole thought came from um I've done it before in other fire departments or been a member of that committee um it's easily done I've contacted three independent parties just to confirm that it can be done that the money would be in a good investment and it would last seven to ten years as I have down here um the mileage is low on the truck it's got 25 5000 mileage engine hours are low pump hours I've had independent heavy

truck mechanic look at it it gets certified every year by an independent for the Hydraulics and the ladders they were astounded of the condition of it and I have a local vendor out of Auburn who actually works on it and really believes that investing in that prolongs any purchase or the life of the truck to answer your question 30 years is always the standard of an aerial apparatus a ladder truck if you will this one happens to have everything it's a pumper a ladder a rescue it's more than just your basic oh I know I'm a Salesman go ahead I was against this truck when we first got it sure many many that's education and that's okay but with so on The Five-Year Plan was this due next year or are you just telling me that it was due next year what was in the plan to have this done when was it scheduled to be replaced well honestly if I if I recall it was and maybe milk can help me it was previous to my hiring

that they wanted to when they purchased the used they wanted that to last five to eight years and then upgrade from there in that um hadn't been done by the previous Chief but on all the historical um committee readings that they wanted to use that was their foot in the door is to buy a used apparatus and then upgrade it from there I can't remember the exact dates but there's no question that the previous Chief moved it back on the schedule yes and then I don't think it was ever offered that you could rehab this truck and for 10 cents on the dollar you can rehab that truck again by independent contractors to prolong it um I I believe in it I'm in favor of it the senior membership is um the same people that put that truck together and really bought that truck are still in favor of rehabbing it and keeping it for the purposes cheaper than a million dollars yeah I said a million it's easily one and a half let me throw

some people under the bus um can I call a vote there you go I'll take a vote it's happened it's 8 16 and I mean I think people I think sure no that's important it is so you're saying um if we had if we don't do this the current truck

it's going to take them if we have to buy another one it's it's a one-year Bill delay at least yes please so if we don't if we don't fix this thing we're at Jeopardy of if it's the current one breaks we got nothing and it would take a year a year to get a replacement it's I know yes Lisbon though those numbers have prolonged Lisbon just got approved and specked out two pumper trucks that are more than two and a half years out ladder trucks start at a million and they go up if you replace the one that we had because it does five things you're easily at a million and a half in years down the line when you start thinking about oh maybe we could you know just rely on our neighbors currently Lisbon's ladder truck is out of service so we're covering Lisbon um they are relying on us freeports has their ladder truck they've gone to the several fires we've been doing the last two days they don't carry water it's not

a quint totally different truck um Durham is protected by this and quite honestly it it's protected frequently so today when we had two trucks in Pownal at three o'clock on a structure fire you know our Quint what was our backup engine 21 in the Quint protecting the town and that actually happens frequently it happened two nights ago when we're in Freeport I mean that's an important apparatus for Durham I believe in it I've been around the country and all a lot of trucks it's a special piece of equipment that you own that I'd like to continue to invest in thank you all right so it it um John's request to move the vote it has it has been motioned and seconded that

the town appropriates 125 000 from the Opera funds received by the town from the federal government for the purpose of refurbishing the Quint fire truck all those in favor all those opposed it's unanimous nine zero I believe we're done with you chief that that's a win Mr chair that's a win uh not to be rude chief get out thank you for your time thank you all for yours and your consideration and I'm curious the knee is that going to increase our workers comp next year

Administration um would we like to discuss how late we'd like to go this evening so we have a time in mind 9 30. I don't want to go past 9 30. we have a second I have a second meeting scheduled for Thursday and the purpose of that meeting would be to to finish whatever part of the administration's budget we don't get through this evening plus we're going to do the Public Works um and since we've only scheduled two meetings thank you well we have an option of doing a third meeting but we decided to live in two so um let's try to go for 9 30. 9 30 sounds good everybody all right yeah that's a little over an hour we'll just go to the administration

okay [Music] information Jerry that you were going to get back to us on a question was raised at the Joint meeting regarding line 2502 insurances and you're going to report back to it yeah that's our Casualty Insurance so it's just one Insurance yeah yeah it's our casualties yeah [Music]

um labor [Music] well this is still a little bit up in the air still up but still I'm still working with the bullet on uh the direction we want to go in and I either back filling it or Outsourcing it but that money would cover either either direction we go so one question that I have um with the labor is one of the reasons why it was requested last year to hire a part-time Deputy

Clerk was um not only to give the Town Clerk and the deputy tax collector Treasurer time to do their reports it was also to help cover sick and vacation time and so one question that I have is why are we entertaining the idea of moving that person to full-time versus hiring a second part-time person and therefore broadening our ability to cover sick and vacation time especially if we're considering Outsourcing the um

the accounts payable and things like that so it's been a long day so can you ask that again what are we yeah we do I I didn't follow so you want to turn the part-time position into a full-time position correct why not have two part-time positions

to be trained we already have this person trained um they can step right into the role and we and we really need another full time we could do that but I just don't think that's you're going to spend more resources training them if they don't like it they leave um that sort of thing okay and so that leads me to my second question the deputy tax collector treasurer accounts payable payroll person

we are now looking to take accounts payable and payroll and contract that out so if we go that direction why is that position still full time when we've taken out half of their responsibilities um they're struggling to get the work done as it is we did Joe and I did an analysis on what we need for for helping there and Joe can kind of speak to this if you if you want but yeah that's kind of my first question was if we made any progress so I'd love to hear that yeah

[Music] I or my other job so uh I used a tool that actually you load in what it is everybody's doing not as an individual but just the job function right the clerks function um is is the window essentially the the the deputy clerk well just yeah that well yeah the window work itself adds up to a number of hours in the total time frame the windows open so that's what four days a week for seven and a half hours or so each day do you stop multiplying that out by 52 weeks and you get a number somewhere up in it's over 3 000 hours so you you end up with a job function where you have two people needed at those windows for extra amount of hours every week 52 weeks a year minus of

vacations and what happens you end up with a flat double person up there all the time they've been figuring out that they're up there 90 of the time at the window they're not able to get the other jobs done that they still have their other functions that they do on both also job positions the actual clerk does other things other than the window so does your Deputy Treasurer even if the deputy Treasurer has a reduced role so you end up in the aggregate when you start figuring out all those things uh boating absentee ballots take a lot of time November or in October he's not adding all those hours into a level loaded Manning plan but this time I came up with all the four people needed in that back office to do all the jobs just in a I sat around sat down for about three hours at a gross level just looking at the hours with everybody's here with what they're doing at a very high level and that's where I came out with Oliver

for four people it's like four and a half people so for full-time equivalents yeah so Jerry's I think in incorrect me if I'm wrong Jerry that what you have in here is around three and a half time equivalents in this budget right here right so he's really trying to go after three and a half times let's see how they do so he doesn't have to take that leap because I mean the last thing you want is have too many people in the office doing you know not not being able to do work right you want work for everybody so you know when you start looking at a man playing you never want to want to hire too much right so I think going in at like a three and a half Manning level which is what he's proposing in this budget compared to what we're figuring out is more like a four and a half person amount of work that goes on here on average then that that's that's probably a good place to be does that include the town manager's

position it does not I did not include the town manager I did not include if I achieve I did not include any of the other employees I'm just purely looking at what goes on between the the window and what the court normally does and and then what the deputy Treasurer would do for like reporting out um because those reports would still be a task that would be uh uh um in theory

it sounds good but just as a as a old man was trying to process this yes you're you're talking about additional people four people and one of those positions which was a full-time position their workload was going to be cut in half if we contract out so you're we we

have one person doing half the hours and you're proposing an additional one and a half people that doesn't that this doesn't make common sense to me Landing plan shows the best how much work they're doing it doesn't mean that you need the extra person to do all that work but yeah it's been hours mine's right up with a yeah the data that I gave you folks with other towns that have the same population with the two people run on the counter typically anytime I mean have you ever how many of you have gone into other towns to see how they operate usually the deputy the clerk and the treasurer typically don't run the window there's counter help and then they relieve the counter help when they go to lunch that and that's what these that's what that show when I gave you that that uh how have we possibly survived up

to today doing what we're doing how is it even conceivable that this town has been able to operate doing what we're doing I know that I can tell you I'm closing one day a week has helped I can tell you right now that they're so stressed right now they've all talked about leaving so you doing it what you will I don't know what to tell you but they're taxed there are also taxed because we're missing a person right now well even even before though they they were taxed because they weren't able they were running the windows so much they weren't getting their BMV reports done their dog license report down the Inland Fisheries and they're they're struggling and they're and they're they're voicing that to me I think the last person you hired said you needed more help I think Mitch said you needed more help I'm saying you need more help and no one none of us are getting listened to eventually you're

going to have an empty office again I'm having a hard time buying four people too because for years we went with we had a Personnel back that could step in and we had two out front and it seems like we always got everything done I'm having a hard time doing we got to jump up to people but you went to a different form of government now so I know that I I disagree with that but I know that's where we're at so we got to move forward right so that that's just let's go ahead John Locke voting for the chairman thank you for yeah right uh I'm now confused Heather you're next it is confusing I'm sorry to cut it in well this budget is for three people I'm not sure the other half is these people doing I.T stuff but that doesn't take them the full 20 hours to do what they were going to do so I was going to try to get them out here to work the window to relieve these folks for lunch and vacations okay so that's where the other

half that's the other half the other half exactly remember that it's always been that way I mean it was it's been that way when I was hired the I.T people of qualified to do that just swearing them in as oath as a clerking treasurer they could actually physically they get trained just like anybody else yeah

them well and doesn't it make them now employees they were contractors well but that was discussed too and they got to go on the rolls as in part-time employees now we're paying their FICA and that in all their taxes payroll taxes yes and your budgeting go ahead Heather

played into Joe's um hour count and needing the four did you take into account that the public is not in the office on Wednesdays when you figured that out yeah you did yeah this was just based on ours actually he used 40 hours and right now they're here only 36. so if you actually use the 36 it's going to drive the employee up but that's not what I'm looking to do I'm just looking to get by with what we have without losing the help we have because they're they're they're not getting it done they're not another question that I had was in reference to the I.T people when I'm confused about whether or not that's one position or two and whether it's 20 hours for both of them or if they split 20 hours they split can we talk about them [Music] dual thing but I feel confused by how that's structured right so that's that this split the 20 hours it's a 20 hours total and it used to be a full-time I

don't know who sat in there before um you don't want to go down that road yeah I'm getting much more better service now right right yes it was pretty close I thought that's what they said whoever that was was getting paid benefits and everything I don't know I don't remember back when I was being told right I don't you know I'm new so I'm I'm trying to figure it all out myself and the reports that you say that they have I'm just trying to learn their position I'm not trying to nitpick I'm just trying to understand better um the reports that they have to do are these daily reports some of them are uh weekly and some of them are monthly some of them are quarterly okay so on Wednesdays we're not distracted by the window are there other distractions on Wednesdays because I thought this building was closed and it's just them accounts payable and getting caught up with those reports and there's there's

quite a bit of like chasing stuff right now that was done wrong and I don't want to get into all the details here so that doesn't tell me to my last question and then I yeah I'll promise I won't ask for a little bit um how much how much of what we are thinking about right now and I know they're working hard to get trained and figure everything out but how much of it is the fact that they're only at 80 train level or 60 trained

level um I don't know what percentage they're at but how much of it is needing to get them better trained and how much of it is them just not having enough time in the day what it is is that when that window gets busy like Friday they did nothing but that window today was a kind of a light day so they've got a lot a lot of stuff done and it just Ebbs and flows so much where they don't get a lot of time away from that window and there's no one to do the work that they they need to get done I mean they're working kind of late I had to get after them the other day to leave because you're going past your hours and they're like well I got to get this report done I'm like well it'll be there for you tomorrow it'll be late to the state but it is what it is I don't know how else I don't I don't know what else to tell you folks really I'm curious is some of that because they're still learning how to do this we've been here

like a year and a half and it's it is it's a lot of work in fact just uh men my earlier Outburst um so going back a few years when we had an administrative assistant uh the buzzword at one of these meetings was cross-trained and so both of the positions the the clerk and the treasurer as well as the administrative assistant are all cross-trained and thus

they could the administrative assistant could come out front and help and well you all know what the meaning of that is so in actuality back then there were two and a half people who would be working the window and and so now the proposal is three and a half people okay and I'm assuming that's in part because they're not trained as well as those last three people were right right yeah I don't know how well they were training my question is because maybe I'm getting a little bit frustrated at what point in time and they're great people I'm not this isn't a criticism about the people in there but one's been there 18 months one's been there five months six months whatever at what point are they trained I mean they would the the 18 month has gone through multiple Cycles the sixth month so what is what training haven't we given them well the six-month person hasn't had any training at all well there's some OJT I mean I guess I'm

at a loss right right I mean that's just I mean that's true we all I'm on coming into Durham after being in public service I'm on on the job training here in Durham I mean it just doesn't go away I got you but there's so if you do the job for 18 months there's and I know they have because they're great people right I I don't I guess I've stopped by and they need to be trained because they've been here an extensive period of time like the clerk doesn't really run Trio but she's picked up the payroll so we've got her cross-trained now she's cross-trained and the other person that's been here six months when we can do it when when when they can do it like tomorrow they'll do payroll and both of them will be sitting down doing payroll because one's training the other I mean you know the the frustrating thing about this all is we have Joe's coming here and he has the expertise on how to collect the data on

it and we're sick we're sitting back here in our second guessing we don't work here every day that's my concern we we have the ability to ask these questions and you're getting the information from somebody that has done the analysis and now we're saying we don't trust the analysis can I just say something since I've been here I got to get this out because it's very it's very different I'm not used to it but and and please don't be offended but there just seems to be this cultural distrust here in in Durham where where just I mean I don't know what to do with it I mean I I don't feel like I'm trusted I don't you know and I don't I don't know why and it's it's it's Troublesome I'm not here to to

Stick it to the Man I'm just not I'm here to try to do a good job and do the the best we can with what you got to work with and when I came in here and I saw the budget the way it was laid out and the way it was presented I knew I had a lot of work ahead of me I I just don't I don't I don't know what to make of it this I've got culture shock seriously and I don't mean to be that way but I do well I can give you some answers to that but I won't do it here yeah okay okay that's that's fine but hi guys Mark please I feel it yeah I'm not beating up on those people I'm not even beating up on you right they can't even applied for a job but they got it right wrong or different I don't have anything about that the same with you to Allen's point I get what he's saying but up until the last two years this town run pretty good and everything is pretty well up to date with with three people basically and I'm not

saying that we don't need to grow but you're talking about four people and hiring an outside company for 70 grand that just doesn't I'm not I'm not I'm not talking about the four people the data showed the four people I'm going with three and a half three and a half but that's that's kind of what was here and I'm kind of and I kind of want to see how that's going to play out to actually see it if it's not I mean Joe uses this program in his work down to BIW to staff in so I wanted to get the data again I showed you the towns and Mark you made a great point in meeting that well we don't have the tax base to support those employees and I said well we're still registering the same amount of vehicles and and you recognize it I'm not looking to to employ all the people these other towns out because they have that tax base but what I'm looking to do is keep the staff we have and not over tax them

you know that's where I'm at and I've heard it I heard it several times from the clerk that gray was going after her for more money and she was like I don't know what to do I said you just stay right here with me we'll get this figured out so that's what we're up against and if if you're not going to believe it I don't know I don't have anything else to say I don't know what to tell you um just for a clarification joke if we approve these positions I think there was some conversation a while back about changing these the office hours The Window hours to go to a five-day would that happen or yeah yeah because it's the third I would like to open up on Wednesday because we're here and that will spread out the demand on the window over another day so they won't be lined up at the door on Thursday so yeah they're here we could we can do that you know we can we can try and again I'm coming into a I'm coming into an

organization that didn't have a whole lot of structure like the chief and Calvin weren't getting their expense what they were spending and that's not good they need to have that report and there's some other things that I'm not going to get into the details here it's it's not the place about the budget example I have two numbers for undesignated funds one the audit says we got 1.9 and Trio says 2.4 pick one

pick one there's other things that I'm not going to get into the details here it's not the place you just have again you're not trusting me it's it's not I'm going to speak personally it's not that I'm not trusting you okay um it's we're learning we're learning a lot this year from you yeah I appreciate that and and hearing how and people can say I'm messing with my words but in in my opinion hearing how messed up the accounts payable accounts receivable accounting has been is definitely concerning to me and I'm glad that you're straightening that out and I'm glad that you have a path going forward to get that straightened out and I do think that we have to stop kind of going okay well the budget was this the actual is this and just trust that it is a trio screw-up and the bottom number is still the same um part of what the part of the culture that you're coming into is that it seemed like Durham was like this for

several years and then the past two years were like for government growth and I think it's it's not a mistrust it's people that I've spoken to we're all in shock and kind of uh why um and perhaps we don't feel like we've gotten a good definition of the why so I'll just get off that there I do have one question yeah sure so three and a half people yep is that three and a half people plus possibly a contract or the contract would be considered one of these people one of those people okay thank you and I just just up and that clarifies that yeah yeah well that's what the budget says yeah right

just so let me just go one one more thing so you'll Reserve account balance here that I put together for you yes when I put this together Kevin come in and he said he said the recreation it was there's no way that uh well it was a telecommunications fund because I had it bad he wanted to look at it so he said where did you get your numbers well I got it from the audit report okay so he said well we looked at the audit report and there was like a in that audit report there was twelve thousand dollars that would disperse to Recreation and Kevin said we've never discussed twelve thousand dollars I said this is just what the audit says he says Jerry I can tell you we've never done it and I looked at him and I said I believe you so I've been chasing numbers for almost five months no no almost five months trying to figure out again I just told you you know the the audit report says 1.9 million nothing doesn't it and the

trio says 2.4 so when was when you take things out of them designated to put it into the budget was that happening on the back end I don't know I just know that we got two different numbers and I just want to get to the bottom of it that's all and because as your town manager you're going to be asking me what numbers are and I'm afraid to give them to you because I don't really know them Heather and oh you're up next so I have a couple things first Jerry I'm sorry that you're feeling like you're not think that you display um transparency that we all appreciate

um our town government went through a couple of years with covid where there was there were our entire form of government changed and we weren't in a town floor meeting situation I think there was a lot that happened people felt like they weren't educated about the process and that they weren't involved or had the opportunity to have input in that and that has led to um this culture of constant questioning and

I and I don't want you to take that personally because I don't think that has anything to do with you I think it has to do with the position that you're sitting in because a lot of people in town weren't in favor of going that route and so now that we're here they want to know if you know did we make a good decision is it worth it um the other the other thing that I wanted to say about the the recreation fund and the twelve thousand dollars um during that process we switched the way that we did our accounting we used to have separate accounts for everything and it went on the warrant that we were going to turn everything into one account except for telecommunications and I don't remember what the other ones were um and then anything that wasn't spent went into undesignated and so perhaps prior

to that happening money was going into an account earmarked as Recreation like we have that old home days account and we had you know all these small little sub accounts and so that could be why that account exists and why there's money in there maybe that never got transferred out of there when that vote took place I don't know right um but I've said it before and I'll say it again that I appreciate your diligence in not just trusting what the papers say

and making sure that you do have the ability to answer what the balances are and where they come from because I've said all the time you know and I know that this is like micromanaging like I want to see the receipts well I'm just trusting a spreadsheet that somebody entered numbers into and I'm making decisions as an elected person based on these spreadsheets so thank you I know that was long-winded sorry

what what was oh we're talking about the thing okay so Jill asked the Contracting out that counts as one position okay so your this budget builds in for two and a half more in the office yeah Clark in the pot time going to full time the Deputy Treasurer and I'm gonna try to utilize more efficiently the I.T people

John and do we have a number have have you gotten a number back yet on Contracting out or are we still like in limbo with that yeah we're still looking but that's still up in the air right now okay thank you yeah John uh Mr I think the question is do we accept that that there are major issues in not quite yet that there's

more I guess for the budget committee do we accept that there are major issues in that three and a half entities whether it be an accountant and three two and a half other employees that is I think the question is that we're here and you've already said that it's screwed up so I think it's a as a board we have to say Okay do we accept that and there's three and a half entities going to fix it and that I

think is the question before us yeah so let me just sort of clarify though because when I got here there was two full-timers and a half time and a half time so you really had three full-time equivalents right well we considered Telecom to not be part of behind the window table right no

but just I'm just letting you know like the townspeople didn't consider them to be a part-time budget so let me let me finish my thoughts I actually had two full-timers we had a half time behind the window which is new yeah when I got last year and then you had half time and um so that's three people I'm only asking for another half a person when when it comes down when when push comes to shove and you know I think the question is do we need three and a half entities and

I think maybe we've discussed that enough I mean it's we're probably at a point where we can make a decision or there's more discussion to be had but you know do we or do we not and then we need to get on to the rest of the stuff and I'll be quiet and you said that additional half person so so it would be three and a half people but that and that includes if we go out to bed well took in contract for either way either way we Deputy will either get hired in-house or go contracted out so it doesn't change the budget or anything Jane no I think Mark was before oh I'm sorry especially what I was trying to clarify because pretty big confusion about it from the meeting the other night and that it seemed like they was looking at three and a half plus the 79 no no no that helps a little yeah it does I'm not sure if I agree 100 right now however if you

if you Outsource that that takes away someone helping out the window it also takes a lot of work away from them so they can spend more time at the window and doing their other reports that's normally the one person's job

that they were having a hard time doing yeah right brings in an expert to get Trio correct so we have a problem when we need to fix it is this a short-term fix to get could a short-term fix to fix the books or to that's not a good word

on Trio could that be a kind of like a stop Gap in there versus hiring another person ongoing can you get the service in temporarily or um the books are stabilized in that outside service have less to do well either way there's three and a half people regardless right I guess what I think what Jane's trying to ask is is there the potential of once we get the books accurate that instead of using a more expensive outside contract source that we could possibly reinvent the position as an inside less expensive Source yeah this doesn't have to be permanent right right absolutely anyways right and that's another thing too is that if if we went in that direction to Outsource it they would prepare for the audit which is a huge amount it is a huge amount of time we're working on right now we're working on the audit and we're working on the workers comp audit so there's a lot going on back there and

it's difficult when you only have two people and they have to you know all the time I can't stress it enough I don't know if I'm not being hurt I don't know what to say I know that we're not gonna make this decision it our decision to make um I I think there is something to be said for the institutional knowledge once fix doesn't leave with a person it stays with the entity and that we wouldn't be paying medical benefits and and payroll taxes and all that if we contract out it is a lot of money contract out so I'm you know but we're not we're not charged with that decision so and I had a budget specific question a line are we going there or yep go ahead yeah let's move on so one of the things that I had a question about was when an employee doesn't take health the health plan they get a stipend and I'm curious as to why this number we lost your face we got a low battery what so I'm sorry because that you you went off you went

off the screen so it was a distraction to me yeah we might have to take take a health insurance plan correct and when I'm looking at the budget that's not 1200 and I've seen that in a couple different places so I'm just wondering what is it a percentage and so like they work more hours so they're back can you just explain why that's not that fixed number what's not the fixed number because everybody get 1200 no matter how long they work yeah yeah if they don't take insurance they get twelve hundred dollars

13 47. yeah I don't know I I can't answer that Heather because I don't I'd have to I'd have to run the 107 report to see what exactly that was I I don't know I can't that's okay I just wondered why it wasn't a fixed number maybe maybe I don't know either but and then and see it and then see how the CEO benefits down there his number is 1202 10. I don't I don't know why there's a difference there I

are there other elements of the administration budget that people would like to discuss and uh Jerry uh please do not um interpret this as not trusting you um is doing what I think a question I'll be asking that others will be asking as well um I have a problem with the con request for a contingency fund I think there's you already have a contingency Mount built into this budget maybe you're just not aware of it so you you have more than enough to con to cover for a contingency

in this budget figures correctly can you hear okay yeah so if I would be line 45 28 I just went back four years that's what I happened to have the paperwork in the last four years um each year we've put away ten thousand dollars for legal fees um and last year we only used 29 1 of that so we had a balance of seven thousand dollars and twenty that was 2022 2021 we had a balance of seven thousand seven hundred and forty five dollars in 2020 we had a balance of five thousand six hundred thirty six dollars and in 2019 we we used quite a bit of legal fees and our balance was only 1991.

administrative administrative budget and that we've come under budget um each of the past four years in 2022 we understand underspent the administration budget by Thirty one thousand two hundred and eight dollars in 2021 we under spent by thirty thousand seven hundred and forty three dollars in 2020 we under spent by seven thousand nine hundred and sixteen dollars and in 2019 we under spent by five thousand four hundred and sixty five dollars so when you add up the amounts that we underspend the administration budget which is a good thing and the fact that we unspent are in legal fees the amount of dollars that would have been available were a contingency request needed um in 2022 there would have been 38 217 not used out of the budget which is more than twice the amount that you're stating is needed as a contingency Fund in 2021 that amount was 38 488 in 2020

the amount available would have been 13 552. and in 2019 the amount would have been seven thousand four hundred and fifty six dollars so um unless I'm reading something wrong the the request for an additional fifth fifteen fifteen thousand dollars set aside for a contingency fund is not needed right so you know I'm sorry all right so you had you didn't have a question you were just making a comment

in 2021 we didn't have a cool enforcement force and Calvin did part of that job so I think that's probably why we didn't spend the money so I think those big chunks there's probably reasons why they were not spent don't cut them out in half the fact that the fact that we you know in three out of four years um did certainly didn't come anywhere close of of spending what we've budgeted for legal fees is makes it an inherent contingency Fund in my Viewpoint it sounds like you're leading up to emotion uh not yet not all is there's people have something to say um so in part there's in the ethereum philosophy I like a contingency line because the way I hope and feel it would

be used and interpreted is we're not borrowing from Peter to pay for Paul the deputy clerk we put aside you know sixty thousand dollars we were able to hire somebody for 30. I didn't then go woohoo I got thirty thousand dollars to play with as contingency um but so I guess I'm curious to know what

is your because this is your budget so if you do have contingency and you do have lines where you have you know positions Insurance amounts and things like that what is your philosophy and plan of this budget if specific line items don't get spent and matched to their point do you see that as additional contingency funds it depends where you spend that money has to pass the straight face test when you're in this when you're in your budget so let me give you an example you're not going to pay this just a legal I mean uh electricity bill with your legal funds that doesn't so you're all I think used to just just because it's within the article you can just spend it wherever you want and that has been well selection yeah that ethically that's not okay I mean you it really does have to pass the straight face test so that's always did it in my budget when I before I came here and every Department in the city that I came from

before has a contingency line because you just don't know now know what's going off on legal fees well we don't know what we're gonna have for legal fees in 2023. so you don't want to minimize that line because if we get in hot water or for whatever reason and we need that legal help and we don't have it in the budget you're really playing with fire there so it's better in that case in legal it's better to have it and not need it so you need it and not have it so your philosophy is not and I don't want to put words in your mouth so I apologize ahead of time so maybe I should rephrase this what I have heard repeatedly at select board meetings is as long as you have the money in your budget as long as you have the money in your budget as long as you can find the money in your budget so you're saying to me that's not your

philosophy you're not looking at the bottom line number you're looking at each individual line but I think their their point is you can't you you can't you have a budget line in the article and you you've got to stay within that right you know what I'm saying I think that's I I that's what I'm assuming they're doing right they're saying they don't care what individual line it comes out of as long as that bottom warrant number isn't exceeded they're okay right

so like the contingency line here like the clerk who gets twelve hundred dollars could could come up to me tomorrow and say I've had a family issue I need full Family Insurance that's where the contingency line comes in I can't take that out illegal I can't take that out of something else I have to right I mean so that's why the contingency lines there and if you don't use it it just rolls back and non-designated but without it like I like we haven't we haven't um now this is what I did um we haven't reconciled our bank statement since April of 2021. so I'm working on getting that done hide someone I didn't have a contingency line so I'm taking it out illegal I had no other place to take it we are saying in the future you wouldn't do that if I had a contingency line I would prefer to take it out of that okay so I'm asking these questions because again you're talking about the the culture of this town right

well culture of this town is if there's 550 000 to spend it's over it could get spent no matter what line you want to put it in or how you want to Jumble the way it's it gets presented to the town okay because the town doesn't see all these individual lines the town sees the bottom number and so the way

I've interpreted it is it's now just a big combination of a bunch of cereals and you take out the Scoops where you want to take it out and I'm I'm just presenting that as kind of educational to you because um I don't like the fact that we've got

I'm I it's not that I don't like I'm scared of the fact that we have padding in lines and when I say the word padding I'll explain it we have the deputy tax collector slash Treasurer position open right with their benefits so we get 24

500 with their benefits okay now on one hand you have said that that means I've got 74 500 to hire a contractor that money is available right right but then on the other hand you're saying I'm not gonna move money from one line to another line well this is either going to do one or the other it's either going to hire a contractor or we're going to hire in-house okay so so it's still the same right same so the townspeople just they only see this bottom number of 550 000 and the fact that you wanted 23 increase in your budget which is is hopefully we have defibrillators available at the town meeting right and people it's going to be a sticker shock yeah it is and I and I understand it um but I think we have to be careful on committing to something because part of the selectman's role in the manager's role is to say something came in fuel and maybe this is a bad budget because he other than salaries he doesn't have a

lot of big you know numbers playing but on fuel for public works or whatever if it goes back up to almost five dollars they have to be able to take money from last year Calvin didn't pay right roads so I think we need to be careful and say we're approving these numbers on a budget and you can't oversee you know exceed that but to go on I mean I hear what you're saying and I don't know if that's reviewed frequently by the the Selectmen and they say hey we approve not you moving money around but I don't want to tie a manager's hands I can't move money I don't either I'm just trying to get a better idea of the philosophy because if we're just padding the budget by fifteen thousand dollars then Milton has a point where we've got a history where and apologize I'm sure I'm not using the proper terms and I don't mean them disrespectfully but we have padded the budget by you know even 2019 and 2020 if I

remember correctly positions were filled here and we had padded budgets by seventy four hundred dollars and thirteen thousand five hundred dollars and so we're now wanting to Pat it an additional fifteen thousand dollars well I I'm not sure I didn't follow you on that where's the path going off you know like the money that was left over that past people have considered that contingency money yeah but you but you're never going to know at the end of any year what that number is going to be no you know I mean like Calvin's well

we've been having a really good winter maybe he wouldn't use as much salt as he would in the typical year next year he may use a whole heck of a lot more you just don't know so I mean all these budget numbers are really a forecast because we don't know what 2023 brings and like let's just say that we do get

someone in here in-house for the deputy Treasurer right and there's that money and I know you see it might see it as that's padded because we don't know what they're going to take for insurance let's just say they do and then either the codes or the other guy says I need Family Insurance now Something's Happened there's no padding in this budget to pay for that so um what I we haven't gone over budget the administration budget has not gone over for quite a while and that's a good thing and I think part of the reason why it hasn't gone over because each year that the budget's been built the the amount proposed for the new year is based on what was the amount budgeted from the previous year it's not it's not based on what was the actual so when that when someone says well you know we only increase the budget for a line item by you know one percent it was one percent over what was budgeted the

previous year but we might have way under spent um the actual so it just inherent that we we typically come we've been coming out ahead and it's a good thing um so that's one one point and the second point is the argument it comes up very frequently when we have these budget meetings is you know well so if we raise too much money it goes back into the undesignated funds but that's not that's not a rule to raise money to build up our undesignated fund account we've been doing so and now you know the undesignated fund is probably the highest it's ever been in our town so we don't need to get we don't need to you know relax on our Laurels that also if we wait so if we do raise too much money it goes back into on designated funds we shouldn't be raising we shouldn't be unnecessarily taxing our residence is the same on the state level you know the the state is is making a big deal out of reach you know giving everybody 450

dollars back in rebates but they over taxed everybody we they should have over taxed Us in the in the first place giving back money that that didn't necessarily have to be raised it's not that we're getting a present back so I just want to be careful when when you know when if that anyone gets into the mindset so if we over if we over raise well we're not really losing anything because it goes back into undesignated our undesignated fund is is really healthy right now we've done a good job we you know we should continue the course I recognize you Heather yeah I agree with what you just said no and that's a position that I was advocating for last year for sure um I would just like for people to consider you know we have we Jerry's been hired and we have we were all asking for someone to come in and look at things with a fresh set of eyes and he's identified these areas where we need you know to do some

work um and I just in my mind what I'm saying is you know like he took the mowing out of it took that contract out and gave that to the public works department to do in-house um and the sentiment is about if it doesn't work you know we'll go back to a contract situation and I I just like for maybe people to consider doing that same thing with this line we are all on three-year terms and we'll all sit on this committee again next year um and if Jerry comes back and can't justify the contingency line or how that money was spent you know I think at that point we could say this wasn't a good idea I mean we don't have the ultimate say but if we reduce that line by that amount and that's the reason why when we go to town floor you know I think I think that people on Town floor listen to us so I'm kind of in between on where I stand with this but I also feel like you know I do appreciate that he is looking at

things with a fresh set of eyes and I'd just like for us to consider that um I want to go back to the department four section of your budget okay so the difference between what you're requesting for the Personnel budget for

2023 versus what was budgeted for in 2022 is a difference of 78 363 dollars and you're stating that the difference between the two budgets is um increasing up one person from part time to full-time yes and I hope it's safe to say that a person going from part time to full-time isn't going to make an additional seventy eight thousand dollars so where is the rest of this should I

just so the money you're not responsible no okay that kind of you inherited from the select board and the last two managers last year made changes to the budget and this Personnel section one more time the manager proposed 2023 budget look Jill I mean it's you know the Tom Clerk's salary has been raised going more hours and just look at each line and I'm curious the salary includes the five percent some of it is changes that were made last year that unless we're gonna go up to someone and say we really like you but you get a 10 pay decrease you know we can't really do that so I'm kind of curious to know what is the fixed amount and what is the proposed change like the proposed change is a five percent Cola raise to everybody right the proposed change is a half a person person so what is that total in the Personnel line I'd have to add it I'd have to add that up okay but it's already here I'd have to

just do the and I only ask because again when you're going to town hall they're gonna see it's a 26 increase and in reality I don't think it really is well that's why I'm saying you know this is a spreadsheet that I just took because I was yeah it was already developed that's why I'm curious what's reality and what's this spreadsheet and I can you know I probably should have well it's just another plate I gotta spin but I should probably put that together so just just so it's it's clear but it it really is just adding a another half half person in a and a five percent raise and just bumping up the deputy Treasury and then now I have an odd question and if it's not appropriate feel free to tell me but I understand Cola is five percent okay if I'm making a hundred thousand dollars and he's making twenty thousand dollars so he only get I get I can't do the math this late I get five thousand dollars and he gets well a

hundred dollars cost of living our eggs cost the same so why does anybody understand why it's a percentage of your income and not just a set amount typically raises it down five percent you know so I'll call a separate I mean that that becomes the issue coal is truly a cost of living allowance and then a lot of people then add performance bonuses or no and I understand that but I mean Cola is a percentage and you would think cost of living allowance would be more of a set amount because it didn't cost me more money to live this year than it's costing Mark unless of course I'm being extravagant you have a different standard of living a personality a hundred thousand dollars has a different standard of living than the person making twine and it's all about competitive salaries I have a bigger car right I'm making a hundred thousand dollars and actually Kohler is by region in the country not everyone buys fuel oil right

so it's all over the place you don't want to pounds sure anytime [Music] yeah I don't know if we're ready to vote this or not I I'm opposed to the contingency fund I'm also opposed to adding a halftime person on the counter but I'm going to vote for it um I'm not sure why metaphor but I don't vote for it one of the things I said when we were looking for a Time manager this last time was we need somebody who can do what was done in the past which was me on the counter I mean I just don't do that yeah they do no they don't well so this is part of the problem we have so we didn't need a Time manager then well that that's and you can vote to you can vote to get me out however you want to do it I mean no I know I understand just talking yeah we can't do that we can't in fact vote you out without a major major effort yeah a major effort and it's probably unlikely to happen so I'm going to vote for the um

the the part the full-time position [Music] um so are we ready to vote well you're a lot you're certainly have the right to uh make sure I I like to make a motion Mr chairman that we um change uh usually you can do the total

amount and then if you want to explain yeah we appropriate 535 915 for the administrative budget which is the the total less the fifteen thousand and I'll second that so it's just a second discussion it's been moved by Neil and seconded by milk that we raise and appropriate

535 915 dollars for the administration um operation Act discussion [Music] fine simply because I think what Jerry's been saying to me and what I've heard from him is he's trying to make a realistic budget here and by having that fifteen thousand dollar contingency line if he has a variation from his budget rather than pull it out of some other line and next year when we're going over budgets we're saying Jerry why were you so high over this he has to explain it he can say okay I've hit all my budget lines pretty close I get the contingency line we had 15 000 there I spent six and it was for this so it's really clean really neat really easy to follow that that's what I like so that makes sense but we we have been for

I can't tell you how many years but the select board has told us that over and over and over again that we have no say in what money is getting moved from these different lines that all we're voting on is if it was the select boards choice I believe we would only be seeing on a piece of paper the figure 550

000 915 and we'd be voting yay or nay the fact and let you know and I'm not challenging you sir I I I I all the comments that Heather said positively about you I I stamp my approval as well I'm just basing on my experience my education you know my time working on this committee we if we've been told that if you came up short on a particular line I don't know if you needed to pay for legal fees or or needed a contention you'd find it within within your budget so that's that's why even though I you know I I respect your your point of view it's just based on history and you're right and I do agree with you know we we need to we got to let him do his job and and prove his value to the town but it's hard for me to go against history number one number two the the point I made a few minutes ago was that a budget is seems to always be built on what was previously budgeted not what was actually spent and so the budgeted

amount is always seems always to be a little higher than it it needs to be and so I believe that they had that money that that that should there be an emergency that he might need you know in in the amount of you know up to fifteen thousand dollars it could could it would be there Jerry so I'm just curious on you 21 and 22 budget where you've got these 31 Administration budget was that because of Employees leaving in the positions were open and that's why there's such a big number there so that was pointed out to me and so what I said

correct me if I'm wrong one of the reasons I suspect that they were able to offer you more money than what we offered Kathy is because they still had it in the bottom line budget I don't know I just went in because absolutely that's absolutely true because otherwise some credit for my negotiations but I just so you know I think that's uh that again the culture you're running into right like I think we all want to trust you and I think we all do like we're excited for you wanting to kind of get the lines each line where they're supposed to be right um but if you get tired skinned and feathered at the town hall meeting and leave the next day [Music] then the next the the select Board gets to hire the next town manager at an additional fifteen thousand dollars because it's in the contingency line that's whenever so just just history will tell you whenever people leave and then you it always costs I know it

always costs more and I understand buddy I'm not really I'm just again trying to show that that full that's that's the griple that I'm literally having with all my voices in my head is that there's one possum philosophy that it really is just the bottom line and that's what we hear all the time as long as you don't go over your bottom line budget go for it and but I hear your philosophy too and I like that too where I don't feel comfortable using a lawyer to pay electricity you know electricity bill and things like that and I appreciate that too um your forgetting is introductory speech to us though which was just what she's saying all I cares about the bottom line the the impact to the budget yeah that's that's what I was saying you know you got to look at that what are you doing what's the budget really do with it tell me what I can spend give me the increase and I'll take care of let me do my job

about as a group though is and I I will be the first to say I never I did not vote to hire a town manager neither did Mark and he came in and told me so that's why when we had our first town manager eight months you have to think about what got done in eight months and what he's done since he's been here oh no and I definitely applaud him it's night and day call for the motion please um that has to be for a vote go for a vote in case there's any more discussion so there's a motion to call for the vote

um all those in favor all those opposed I'm opposed if there's any more discussion but uh it the vote the the vote to to move the vote at the past seven or look like seven to one all right so six to two um so we'll call the vote um and the mo the motion on the floor is that the town um uh raises into appropriates 535 915 for the administration operation budget all those in favor

one two three four oh we don't have Heather we don't have Heather oh she's gone yeah vote either way okay am I right on we're three minutes ahead of time so next so on Thursday we have all the other Administration all those other accounts we'll also have the Public Works um here if Calvin is here right at 6 30 we'll offer him the same courtesy and do him first and then and then be last if that's worse for you we won't be able to tell him what time I'll make it work I'll work with you that's no problem

guys we