TranscriptPlanning Board Meeting ~ August 2, 2023

minutes get some comments and um 2023 the regular meeting of the Durham Durham planning award uh and so the first thing we do is roll call on information Quorum we've got an aurum um I mean so we have four and four members uh I dropped the ball and Brian did not get you elevated or whatever the right term is to a a voting member so it is

with unless there's some objection to a voting number this evening and then hopefully I've got my act together in the next selectment meeting though they give official voting member bringing a member whatever the current term is I will sing at that motion just as long as nobody's raising an objections okay so roll call The Forum we have Brian monoi Kevin Hutcherson Alan Puritan and John Talbot Juliet is on vacation brother location one of our meetings but she did and so uh we have that part of it is done do we have any amendments to the agenda

okay moving past that to the acceptance of the July 5th in three minutes to have any comments or emotions to accept um believe it's a typo shows that the volts to approved for those two denies deny should be zero we don't care

motion teller to improve balance I will motion to accept the minutes with the all those in favor of his hand and you're a legal voter okay so there that is that so informational exchange on non-agenda items so Alan you are the only child this year this evening would you like to make comments yeah I just wanted to State I put that foreign foreign

uh first is that as you know the Conservation Commission was asked by the planning board to prepare a set of draft amendments for the town meeting the solar Energy System solar energy system s we don't have any standards for as well as for cell towers uh they've met over the last month or so and decided that they are definitely going to move forward with the solar standards but they don't feel like they have the time or capacity this year to do this to do the cell towers

secondly there is a state as you know the state mandate for increasing housing density otherwise called the affordable housing law which doesn't really the affordable housing aspects of it don't apply to your own but for the parts that Durham does have to deal with uh there is a mandate that they require the state to reimburse the town for all any and all expenses the towns incur in order to comply with the state law so I've been tracking all of my time on working on LD 2003

implementation since we heard about that and we'll be doing that going forward theoretically the planning board members your stipends would also be covered as well as in the attorney's fees so what we'll do rather than trying to keep track of it at every meeting where you know if we talk for an hour on it's one Whatever percentage of your fifty dollars whatever the stipend is what we'll do is if we have a special workshop for the entire evening then we'll record the board members uh time for that because that was significant so but the town manager is pretty confident that we should make the five thousand dollars that's available in terms of billing they're actually going to send the money and submit invoices for the expenses incurred if we come up short we can probably go back and document you know time spent before this and so I just wanted to be heavier yeah

handouts that I can put on your desk in addition to a new application uh that came in for amended subdivision there is uh the town manager has been contacted by the greater Portland Council of governments and Matt panfil who's actually a Durham resident director down at GP Cog alerted Jerry to the availability of a

DOT grant for doing facilities studies in terms of future improvements so he and Jerry put together a proposal that they submit to MDOT and received a grant for eight thousand dollars to do a visioning plan for the town properties here which include this building the ball field the Eureka Center as well as the fire station there's been a lot of discussion about these properties in the past in terms of various needs and issues this will be more directed toward potential Transportation aspects such as getting a realignment and construction of the intersection there whether you because looking at the parking lots and their access possibly looking at a pedestrian connection between these full properties because right now we're going to walk along the road so uh one of the things we've discussed we've talked about being with for the Committees is uh right now the town manager is envisioning that

this would be mainly a staff coordinated process as opposed to the planning board or some other special committee being formed by the select board and so what we're thinking is that it'll be basically a process that will give opportunity for public input into coming up with a plan for these properties for the future that will then put the town in the position to apply for funding for actual improvements of the world and Industry networking system so that's kind of the process that's starting now and I gave you a 3D visualization that I

prepared as a base for the study that Judy Cog is going to be doing as well as the proposal that GP Cog has put together to describes the process so if the playing board is interested in getting involved in that process on at some level you should talk to Jerry the town manager okay that's my that's good um I guess the questions really

Grant I think that would be great give some input during [Music] and okay yeah so if we just got to figure out how to you know the process with Jerry is how would you like Carter so there is a timeline on that proposal that talks about different events and if you folks want to give Jerry some input of you know you think you'd like to host the hard portion of it or whatever then I'm sure it would be happy to hear from you but right now he's envisioning with everything that you've got going with the public process for the draft like use amendments uh the select board has their play pretty full he's thinking that at this stage that will keep it just as a staff initiative to just kind of work through it would you be called to coordinate the public event and uh and host it and explain it and get the public input and see if there's a you know a Community Vision for what should be done in this properties and terms

it's just basic improvements not a big elaborate expansion but just simply like for example Eureka if you we have meetings over there you come out and speak black this is just not a good situation getting across you if you have a park over there so those are the types of things that we'll be looking at another issue with the you know long-standing need to get internet access to the Eureka Center so we can have larger public meetings those are the types of issues that I think this study would be looking at would it take to also talk about the fact what we want to do to

it could be whatever whatever the citizens Envision for these properties for the future that could become part of a master plan just a vision and then that moved I'm sure there will be some improvements that we talked about like the parking lots and The Pedestrian connections and the parking lot lighting those sorts of things could go into uh master plan that could then will be submitted for as a basis for requesting the University

Conservation Commission thank you I think it was solar field regulations but um the cell towers did they consider that we have already seen the cell tower take that into consideration maybe eases the burden in my work that they have to put into researching them well back in 2016 I actually went in 2018. this board did review the last hour and I was asked to prepare a memo and part of that memo I researched you know basically all you have is a general conditioning youth standards most communities had standards for actual cell tower terms of all zones visual impact analysis all of those things there's nothing to guide the board's review process and as I explained in earlier meetings under the federal Telecommunications Act they're pretty strict limits on how towns can can regulate cell towers and if you don't follow those federal guidelines those federal law requirements you can really put the

talent of greatness of being so um it's really more and the other room for them I think the pressing issue is they have with everything else and then secondly what's the pressure we know there are solar Farms being planned for for Durham cell towers you had one go in there's not necessarily a lot of Rumblings that you could be getting more applications in in the short term so I think those are probably some of the factors that led to their decision to just go with them this cell television do you know how well the

like I know that International building code I see that addresses for eign mentioned is bandwidth of the Conservation Commission R banned and then what do we want how much do we want to present to the town because I think even driving cell towers we've still got five news article changes I can't say it's pretty migrant it doesn't make you think but uh it is that so that's a lot plus the next conversation about the concept of this Union Church which there's a committee uh let's go ahead and continue so it took me before the town maybe in able and that's probably a fairly big challenging discussion discussed for the town as well so I think we know we've got people interested in solar Farms so we want to do something they don't I think it's fair to say we've not had why

cover the Union Church what's going on with the committee um we're gonna have two week periods every two weeks we meet we're basically trying to look into what will be the use of the union church or what is their plan as a Church you're going forward look at that is um to adjust parking to allow for some sort of public events to happen or it's sold to the social Society or a bunch of other ideas we're in early stages of sort of go

towards the future and how much that would cost and whether or not that's something that the town at large would like to take [Music] it so Tyler and I are both on that committee instead of getting comments you can send them to Tyler and I

open-ended going to do this it could be could be going anywhere in the site visit so that is and I guess George um feedback go in there now the buildings or whatever agenda is comments from uh the general public right citizens of this town that are not about anything that's on the agenda so the key so this is a little Catch-22 the campground is on the agenda so you technically can't speak to read this part about it but then you also can't speak but it actually comes up this time so that sounds like well what the heck am I doing here so we will most likely in the near future our next meeting and the one after that have a public hearing where we will take comments from the public

start till 8 o'clock or so uh you're welcome to stay because what we will do with the petitioner after this is we're going to go through what they are proposing to do and then concerns comments that the planning board has so you get a chance to hear what our issues concerns are we feed that back to them got an opportunity to modify if they desire modify their plans or whatever so I don't want you to think it's complete waste that you're here until you're going forward and you look at the agendas posted at least a week in advance website under the calendar if you see something and it says public comment not taken that there's not at that point there's not a chance to speak at it we'll give you a chance

to hear this evening an email and say I didn't understand and this part of it or can you explain it to me or I'm against whatever it may be or a whatever it may be that's there the other thing I do need to say is two things as one and if you have concerns about the projects I would ask you to talk to the petitioner and see kind of work out any issues it's probably easier if you do it

been formally filed with the planning board you cannot talk to anybody except our town so online comments questions emails whatever please send them through George he's very good about forwarding launches but it's our rules the Law whatever it may be doesn't let us and that includes the petitioner doesn't let us have direct contact so but I don't want the discourage comments good to add or otherwise so we're having to set all of that all that gas are there any non-resident

the other part of the agenda which is in business initial use application for expansion of the Leisure Campground for 112 RV sites is located on map two lot 13. I went to 24 leisurely John before we get into that yeah that there was a comment as parents it's interesting enough some of the items that they had they had written them down over here but communication and transparency was one of the last items and they specifically comment was made that a subdivision was just approved and there was no publication work for that subdivision that was an incorrect statement because under the article 6 under the subdivision regulations and then we go into section uh 0.6 Point e which is the notice to Obama's which was done and that is all documented that that notice was completed in a section six six point h

determination of relinquency the board shall determine whether to hold a public hearing for the preliminary plan which we get sketch plan was this was about a Clear Creek and the sketch plan was initially submitted on May 4th 20 to 2022 and there was a really buy sketch plan that was suspended on May 12th on July 13th there was a public

hearing album on a preliminary plan of whether the individual making those comments didn't recall that I don't know but we did have that public hearing and that was well documented in our minutes and then when we proceed up to 6.8 page at its final plan application it is about public hearing and it specifically says in the board being the planet

that we receive hearing and all of the detailed information that was requested of the applicant that a an additional public hearing was awarded so I just want to make it clear that this planning board has been very transparent and we I certainly think that we will continue I would having been there for all of that I would agree with you so what are you talking about it's the same process that will go through on the campground but throughout that process there were a couple things that were good about that process is one of the neighbors did work with the development which was helpful but I think there were issues about setbacks and other things and there certainly was plenty of opportunities and feedback and I think we got something

of fact a difference I would agree with the difference effect on that one I will talk to the chairman [Music] giving similar information and open and transparent so um okay so we have another chance to be open and transparent and what I'd like to do is the way this process will work is that the petitioners if you would just come up to the table this is a relatively informal process I think so we'll start off uh with a Mr DeBarge Our Town planner will give a quick introduction to your project and then uh we'll give you the opportunity to describe it and what you're going to do what you want to do and how are you doing

turn the light up this evening is indeed open so uh you wanted me to summarize I want you to summarize please so I get off the stage authors 36 campsites currently to a total of 112 and they've talked about possibly doing it in phases of 30 to 40 per year and one yeah they're going to add 112 for a total of 148 now correct correct it's 148 I'm sorry all right

yeah sure correct I just I just missed my misread by item notice [Music] 148 sorry uh and then one question that's come up is it's not clear in the application of what the term uh seasonal means Forum which is a permitted use is limited to 12 weeks between the time

period of May 15th and September 15th and then two weeks maximum occupancy term for any time outside of that summer fall window in although there is language as John Quinn point in the campground section of the ordinance there is a somewhat of a fuzzy line of differentiation between a campground and an RV park and typically RV parks are generally more permanent more constructed than a campground is and obviously they're they're mixed in some cases but if you go to other parts of the country an RV park isn't RV Park sites again and that's much more developed it's somewhere between a mobile home park and a campground so that's part of the fuzziness of the of the regulations and I understand that DHHS basically has one category of campground RV product and their regulations so that's something to be clarified not so much from a technical standpoint a practical standpoint

ordinance to deal with these types of situations where we don't have an RV park in our ordinance we have mobile home park we have a campground this is a little bit different so this ordinance provides the flexibility that anything that doesn't fit come completely into one of these categories can be reviewed under category of other Commercial Services not otherwise listed so for example in the past you had dog kennels now you have doggy dank here the use has changed and the impacts of this have changed and so if someone came in for a Doggy Daycare and the ordinance was chemical you prove it as long as it meets the conditional use criteria that you can't create drainage problems noise problems safety problems environmental problems so that's kind of the system that we're using and this particular application will trigger two a two-step review process where the first step will be to look at those General issues under conditional

use drainage safety safety public houses General Credit criteria but in addition to that there is a specific site plan review process that's kind of like reviewing a subdivision where you're going to look at the details topography does this fit the topography or the altering of topography are there weapons they used to stay away from so those are more design issues in terms of the circulation of vehicles within the site access to the site utilities all those detailed design issues if they don't get the conditional use approval there's no point in them spending a lot of money doing a lot of engineering and other studies if as a use it it doesn't work so again what we want to focus on at this stage is the use itself and get into the detailed review of you know light poles and sewer pipe sizes and all of that if and when it gets to cycling review now obviously there's kind of like RV Park and RV and Camp

there's some overlap there sometimes you may need some of those detailed answers in order to uh to make a decision on the general safety issues or environmental issues so it's not that we can't talk about those things it's just that we don't want to focus on those things so um they have submitted an application that addresses the conditional use criteria and the question first question for the board to answer is that a complete application so have they given you all the information that you need in order to make a decision on whether to Grant the conditional use permit or not weighing it against all of those

criteria so I did prepare some draft findings and conclusions which basically takes there's current submission and plugs in the information each of those categories and you can use that as a guide not for making a decision tonight or even after you know next meeting if you hold a public hearing but just simply to say okay it does do these facts give us enough enough information to decide whether or not this is going to cause a safety problem or a drainage problem or an environmental problem and if not then you should tell the applicants the application is not complete because you need some additional information and then let the applicant know what that information is that you're going to need so then you've determined to come back they give you the information that you've requested you determine it's complete and then you begin with and I know you're going to be concerned whether to hold a public hearing but I'm

assuming you will you would then hold schedule public hearing and then take that public input raising concerns giving information and factor that information public information into the findings as well and then once you've got all that information you would then deliberate and vote on whether the application meets the conditionings criteria and your options as with subdivisions are listed in the land use ordinance and those are to approve the application for conditional use permits without any conditions which usually never happens but technically that's an option under the law second is to approve it with conditions and if you are going to impose conditions on the applicant for whatever two things should be done number one there should be a specific reason and justification for imposing that position tied to the condition of these criteria so if it's not in the conditional use criteria we can't say we got too many

school kids you can't have kids there that's not any of the conditional use criteria so you can't put on a condition like that can put on a condition hours of noise limits on whatever so if it's tied into the conditional use criteria you can do that and then the third option is if any one of the criteria safety drainage environmental any of those scale and intensity if in your majority decision you determine that it doesn't meet that Criterion then you are required for the organs to deny the application

what you're going to be doing okay so if the the next steps I think would be one would like the petitioners to explain what you're going to want to do and why you want to do it how are you going to do it yeah some of that some of that information is in your some of it by typically at least for me was I got lost and said what you want to do and so if you could kind of just say here's what we want to do here's the window it's not clear in my mind that in your application came out and said this is what we want to do so help us do that and as George said hopefully two things copious notes tonight or what questions were asking the things we need to see the other thing is this rule for everybody and all your friends we could make it tonight this will be on the YouTube channel sometime so you get to watch it all over again and get more what do they say what do they mean by that and then thirdly George can answer and help me answer any

questions specifically so if you would start off by introducing yourselves in your address and then you may okay okay good so but that way we when we capture it anybody who's not here or tomorrow uh you have to say well what did we say there here we'll be able to hear it please go ahead so it's a little bit different than last time uh last two years ago we were here and this is all new to me now um but thanks for clearing a lot of stuff we've got going on we would have done this a little bit differently but we're loving to expand we had nine sites when we started pretty much we're expanding I think three years ago to uh 37 sites about 36 sites excuse me and now we built the building and

stuff like that and now willing to expand another 112 sites I believe so we had a hard time with that we actually had it up to um I think it was 200 and 30 something sites we scaled them down for reasons of you know keeping more open properties of a deck and the state requires a thousand square feet per per unit so we're actually proposing uh four thousand square square feet per campsite instead of one thousand sweet version of Camp cycle so it's a little bit more spread out because people like to have bigger areas and stuff like that um a lot of stuff a lot of we're having problems with people coming in with humongous

bring it with them you know you know we have tiny houses that are trying to come into the park as well I don't even know what to do with them they're not a house they're not a camper they're not this you know they have pitched roofs they have a whole rig and roll that comes with that there's no you know nothing that the town has for that I don't even know if the state had any for that adopt at this point in time but um yeah I'm just looking to do that in August we're looking to for the time wise as far as language stay it's too short of a time people were coming in for traveling nurses they're looking for a 13-week stays okay so we have a and then they had on when we say you know sorry it's past our time or whatever that you can't stay longer so and that's it hinders the business as far as that goes I mean you know with 37 sites you only open for for a couple months and that's that's a hard to think of it it's hard

to bring in your business within that amount of time we're not a it's just not big enough for us to do that do you understand working ourselves for the past nine years and working with hire people on and to do that we have to expand so um it would be nice to be able to get extended for I don't know how we would do that it's not a moment nor do I wanted to move Walmart but that's what we're looking at as far as it goes

they're looking around for something where they have you know a lot of people have a house someplace else and their husband has a job in the area for a certain amount of months so I would say most of the people that we have are not Transit so it's kind of tough and the seasonal wise especially with the travel nurses they're calling to come in and we're already closed

lot a lot of that coming in yeah there's a ton and so the cat the stuff that we're looking to accommodate would be more seasonal than Transit so they're coming in and it's staying in and again it's we're making huge sites with trees

it's you know for them because that's almost all we have phone calls for so if we're not looking for we don't we don't do any tenting over there there's no tenting there's no no if you see a tent on there that's somebody that came in with their RV and and they put a tent up for the kids or or something like that

what I'd like you to follow up was I kind of run quickly through what the ordinance says that we believe is what you were approved at and so one of the questions we're going to have is like following the ordinance now so we talk about extending these you know it tells you there's 90 days and all that other stuff so that could be a key question to answer uh and there's some other ordinance and then George is written as he said it's written out some comments on which have you seen that have we given the

but if you would just if because I think that return the package it might be a better oh yes you're right what what George is going to give up for every meeting we prepare for the petitioners George prepares a package of information for that meeting and so it includes what the petitioner file his comments that we're talking about in this case so uh for today's meeting if you go to the town website the town calendar to August you'll see It'll say planning board meeting and the package will be linked to that so you get an opportunity to kind of read the things that we're we're talking about for the next meeting it'll be generally the week before so whatever the week before our in our meetings are generally always the first Wednesday of the month so you'll get a chance we'll go through these today as you get a chance to hear something one reason and just give you a chance to review that stuff and then another

petition or review it you'll hear what uh what our concerns are upon all of this kind of stuff so if it's okay with the planning board I'll kind of go through the ordinance and that kind of George's comments I'll follow my comments and then you get you all will get a chance to respond to that to those tonight and maybe some of the my stuff and all of us as questions so you might be able to put a question of the bed this evening

that we're members of the planning we were to your thoughts concerns questions so this is kind of a prep with you so please take good notes and take a look at the TV thing there so I will go through the campground I won't read it to you uh but the campground or section 5.8 of our Landings ordinance specifically for camp

highlights so the campground has to be on at least 20 acres of land and all camping units or structures have to be at least 100 property of mine who's 400 feet from any residents except that residents belonging to Campground owners so a general comment for the petitioners is

you provide for us to make me a half by 11. about this evening we need to know is it at least 400 feet from a day from the residents so not a bar not a shed or whatever but on the house is the end of the campsite Within that we can only do that with big plans and there's other some other information we'd like to see on the on all the way out and I think and I don't want to take on the second aid but I think you've hired somebody who's done some drawings hopefully yeah

okay so yeah so thank you I appreciate that cooperation so we talked about that uh the inside of uh public roads and everyone Rivers existing revenues including the second floor or approved subdivision uh and if they are you got a landscape it and so take a look at have you have you seen this map

showing us generally if there's a subdivision you would draw a line that's 100 feet from the front there was a house that would just be something that says this is full 500 600 feet from the back of information you can give us the faster the process goes so the not guaranteed it passes it makes it easier to get us to Banana um okay you can't sleep in vehicles uh you can't have more than 11 campsites per acre I don't think that's an issue even when you get up to 148 um you can't cover both near your campsite roads and social can't cover more than 20 so this is what that says is that you cut out a campsite 148 of them cut out roads you've got so many people in there you've got some other stuff that are in there it's on the total square footage of those things cannot be more than 20 percent of the other I guess the real question is how many how many acres are we talking about I could not and it may be on one

of the drawings but I couldn't read it so I can read it on a bigger set so if it's 41 acres and that means about eight Acres I would call a disturb the Mr Media place to park the roads it's the pools it's the cell towers

uh we can certainly George is available to say what was he talking about now uh you're not on any uh any ponds or Rivers so you don't actually have 250 feet back uh you're not in a resource protection zone I'm going through G you do have to provide and I know you've got to plan for it provide water and sewage system sanitation so on and so forth have to be the regulation of the plumbing code of the state of Maine human services and then it talks about how many toilets and I know your UB self can you know the RV has once I think that counts so that's probably not an issue but what is important is is that not at this stage but when we get I think to the final plans at what the site plan review that George is referring to we do need to have good plans that tell us you know what size pipe you're running and a whole bunch of other stuff so we'll need more detail and that may be there again maybe you

know what you've done already but I've just kind of giving you a heads up if it's not that's something you'll need to plan on and that's something the code enforcement person is going to be looking for I've already talked to him about that

are having is that you've discussed is a timeline is placed on the occupancy of any one camping space or continuing basis but 12 weeks for the period of May 15th and September 15th to throw the facts on so forth and we you didn't tell us what you want he said you wanted more time but how much is more time so are you talking 365

days a year so well we have nine size of the grandfather so we do nine year-round campsites so we have let me stop you there when you say their grandfather and show us something that was before the date of the ordinance that's grandfather but there's a way so to kind of just work with George said he's nine were established in 1937. yeah

hold on so we're are we going backwards to what we're doing for the campsites that we have now for it's working for the expansion part how is this world yeah so we have to prove what we have now to be able to expand further or how does this work you have to realize that once you once something has been approved then you come in for a basically a revision right an extension of it right you you are subject to us reviewing it back to all the details sure and that's that bird approved is yours sure and you guys already have that whole information for what we did before that's already metallics before

if we've got it I I just don't want to work we just don't want to waste your time and you know don't go around the mall very much the whole time so we're trying to I'm trying to get my head around what we're doing because all the questions that you just asked are already important uh

Department we went through all this stuff setbacks this that the other thing we've already did all this stuff and then we approached you guys and now we're reading the same thing backstory backwards that we've we've already done well as long as it's there a week we see it I mean if there's those plans are there if you work with ours and says

money or anything like that part of it is also get people who come in are violating what they said they were going to do I'm not saying that's what you're going to do but you know trust but verify what we're going to what we're trying to do that so I won't talk to you about Cemetery so that kind of covers the ordinance and what you know what our expectation there is and then I will go through some of the same things again and this is intended for you all to say Hey you know show us where that stuff is make sure we've got it or some of this new stuff it's like when you come back for the next meeting whatever we've seen it uh we're all good to go because this will move just as quickly as your you provide us the information so in the package that you've got something called conditional use approval decision finding of bags and as Mr Demar said at the beginning of this we'll go through these individually

so the first is 7.4 that's a that's right first one is public health impacts so you can see Mr debarge's comments there uh probably the only time I've played at math was uh when we talked about 148 total want to make sure if you're adding 112 that uh you know whatever number of subjects you're running to Earth this is running to that plus whatever that works and I did not understand the map on a

mobile what the heck was it I wrote it down there somewhere a Park trailer model which is apparently almost twice as much ways coming out yeah with the same amount so what we want to make sure is is that when the math yeah that if if whatever it is that you're not exceeding that so you know it's a little charge and your consultant did a nice job of saying if you put in three of these you can have four of those or one of those whatever yeah yeah and so that's we just want to make sure all that we understand what that stuff is and the other thing is you get out there in the code enforcement guy says wait a minute you got 10 Park trailer models it's not going to support that that just keeps everybody out of trouble um and you talked about a good time to ask about it the state has a rule so there are rules that the state has I think it was a thousand square feet or something like that for a trailer

lot size of a campground plus size so you and you get licensed by this these are questions you get licensed by the state or they have to meet those requirements as well okay um it was hard for me on the setup again and hopefully it'll happen on the bigger plans um do your test page line up where you're tentative at least putting your subject fields so your consultant ran out I can't remember 13 18 test bits there were areas that didn't didn't perk correctly so we just want to make sure as we're going through this because again it becomes a public health issue um well exclusion areas uh there's some cases where it looked like the septic fields overlapped all exclusion areas so we're going to need to see on the plan that the wall exclusion the receptic field is outside the wall exclusion area so I guess one of the plans that did just take a look at that for us uh they may have overlapped differently

uh so when you get to the code enforcement guy when you get the final design is going to want to see more details on the you know rather just hand uh design flow test you've done Code Enforcement guy you had one uh flow test on it drilled well is is there some documentation that says wherever we go how many Wells are you going to have and I'll do the all have the correct motor pressure flow we have we drilled six Wells and we first bought the place and we didn't have water now we've exercised all these well we have three Wells that we're not using on our property now that are the well individuals I said well I'd like to have kids you come down to write a letter for this and they said we can write a letter but we're not going to guarantee one of them which I wouldn't either the water could go dry next week or next month or next year they're not going to do that I don't know

[Music] the sufficiency of water for either portable water supplies or Fire Protection then the water source is groundwater Wells you can require the applicant to get a hydrologist to indicate what the water availability is

yeah hopefully the walls haven't gone wrong yeah we exercise okay those are Georges and money comments anybody else Public Health impacts the questions comments I think we want to try to get it to these folks today so that they can point out either they submitted it before or

here comment about the septic and the wealth was mine I think mine was specifically about this drawing that was in the packet because this I believe it that's actually intellectual friends what that is that's electrical schematic of uh Transformers okay so this HDR system this is this is not a well head that seems like the setback overlaps a septic field what's that now yes that that septic is not that septic is wrong correct okay yeah that stepping sets back if you look at the other print that was sent by Bonnie Cox that was another Engineers that messed up on the top hose on that okay so that that septic fuel is outside of that

they all have to be they have to be um when you go to the state department you have to have it TPS located on 77 GPS locator of the drawings okay yeah so if it takes believe it or not it takes a long time Engineers to draw prints and come back with things

it's like electrical electrical panels foreign only going to build the first 30 to 130 every 36. yeah perfect I'm happy with that anybody else we have Wetland donations early if you have a question on one of those Tyler no I think I think definitely all the information's here I think just

clearer labels on each one for what we should be looking for on which I know I'm like when I look into more detail it is there and just like knowing that this is electric and I should not be looking at the septic on this one drive only be looking at

and you're welcome when we do the next when you do the next presentation you got to go walk us through that I mean with the big the bigger ones will help but if there's that kind of stuff so Tyler or anything else right I know John asked for a summary for the next meeting of what you've done in the past but can you just quickly just go through what you were presenting to the planning board and your last time you were here

um we bought the place nine years ago the bus was nine years ago and it had um year-round campsites on it and they had 47 sites or 52 sites that were basically abandoned sites so that the fell into the Stray and stuff like that and we went to the planning board and asked them to reopen uh 37 of the 50-something sites because we didn't campers back in the 70s and 80s they're really dinky and they're small we could try to manage what we had two sites for one stuff like that so that's what we passive we went for the fighting for to reopen the

cleared stuff and went from there and we put um I don't think they had water they didn't do they didn't do water or electrical on the sites either so we popped all of them up to 50 amps so every site is 50 amp 20 30 50 amps and water sewer and electric on all Sites yeah instead of just having nine sites that you know and the new the sites that we're going to be putting in um we're actually using Old Logging roads that's any help and then just going off of those little body throws we love the trees we love the woods and I was surprised when we were out looking and just trying to figure out what we were doing really not using the main part of the you know the trails and people are walking and you know the real beauty of it I would say it was in an area that wasn't so great you know and um and so again we're using logging rows so we figured that would at least cut down on you know

huge amount of trees and whole livers and all kinds of stuff that's what we're looking for hold that thought because we're going to get to Rose after this sorry no that's okay I appreciate that company yeah yeah I just wanted to get a little bit of History while we're here invited something more substantial but um you also mentioned that it's going to traveling nurses so are these are these RVs that are there now that

that these folks rent or they are ringing they're bringing them in so these traveling nurses are coming from can we hold them I'm sorry yet but I want to kind of if we yeah if we we start watering my mind it'll be all over the place so we kind of stick to the going through the findings of fact but I do want to get those are good questions anything else on on public health

um and uh quickly the 2015 MDOT uh see two entrances onto your property okay one I that I think is and unfortunately the big plan we could show but one comes off 136 I think it's where the mailboxes are and kind of turtles back up sort of it ends in the general direction of the pool there's another one to the north of that that comes to a

house or something yeah so one's an entrance and one's a driver the driveway goes to The Farmhouse that we own and rent and then the other one is the main entrance for the campground so it's a weird property the way I read the comments is has MDOT is there a or have you worked with MDOT on on a couple weeks what is the big one the entrance is 50 will we've got comments on that how about the driveway because there's such things as driveway permits that we talked to Tony I'd ask that you do because if he's not on it for the driveway now he may tell you his grandfather like he did for your entrance okay but you do need a UVA driveway okay yeah so just have him okay we doubled we did the other one yeah it is yeah and uh the question would be how do people not how do you keep others from music is it is it a different address and there's no way they can even get in they can't get it from the campground

out that way you've got some way of blocking this there's trees in there that that'd be something if they could get it so there's no so there's no okay yeah yeah that's true so you see I'm wandering around one of the things we'll need to do between now and hopefully the next meeting is the site visit so we'll we'll coordinate that with you the members of the planning board the fire chief will be there and the road commissioner Public Works directly which is this title will be there and that's a chance to look at those kinds of things and you can show us the trees that are in Hawaii and some of these other things that are coming up you can talk you know Witnesses it's better to be on site and see it so we'll we'll schedule that uh

okay so the email covers there's some free answer I think I'm gonna uh hey did you talk to the MDOT guy about the size of the anchors be probably the triple or will trip Le if it's approved the number of campsites you've talked about initial 136 . we didn't we didn't talk to dot or anything like that for this particular for this particular that we talked to him about the entrance expansion for last time and he said it's not a driveway it's an entrance

help me clarify that in my mind you've got 36 campsites using attachments now you're going to go to a 140 days yeah yeah so this so MDOT if it is grandfathered or whatever number or that's one thing if you're significantly changing the news which would which might include ask if they're trying to include trickling the number of sites so I go back to them so that it's clear because that we're going to want to know is that he's okay with 148 uh

so an email that you got from that last one review would be fine so yes I consider that when when I did this it probably doesn't matter right now but when we did buy the place the last owner had put in to get 150 sites okay because I'll say for a campground RV park X number of vehicles are going to come out of there you've got what you need sure uh we're talking about telling Fontaine it doesn't have to be him but somebody from if not so he's I think I'm dealing with him

there a set of plans we we have run into an issue or just down the road from you and you may have seen that everybody came back and did some clarity to improve an entrance of a new subdivision so we'll get a one and Ill in your land use consultant all we need to see a set of plans is I don't know what the right distance is but it's the right distance okay so this is 130 feet this way whatever it is 130 feet that way and line up spider environment we have Google Map that shows distance

that plan and enter all line of sight distance yeah that's what document here says that there's 500 feet of Google Maps Google map shows wanted to have the entrances for for roads driveways that have been from the campground right here I think you're misunderstanding what site distance is so site distances when you come out at the entrance there's a specific safety standard that says you have to be able to see at least a certain distance based on the speed limit which is 50 miles an hour there so generally it's so many feet per 10 miles an hour in both directions it's not just looking down at an earphones looking at the topography because it's a hill could cut down the same distance there could be obstructions that cut down on the same distance so there's a specific formula that you look at traffic engineer or surveyor can measure what are the official sites for someone pulling out of there

because it happened with that so this other Vision has been and uh had it come along later and they had already approved it and it was not meeting their standard they had to come back and I can't win the gardens or whatever whatever that or not it doesn't give any topographical or site analysis so it's just a picture it's an airflow

and so on and so it's your burden to show that that's safe and it meets the safety standards yeah your engineer the guy who who did your work should know that their MDOT standards for sale and basically what we're understanding is MDOT says this is grandfathered John is asking for clarification you're proposing to add 112 sites does that trigger the DOT

permit or not my interpretation of emails he's saying that changing use does not require it so you understand when I interpreted the MDOT email that you submitted he said that they have no record of a permit ever having been issued yeah so they don't have any record that that was ever permitted by right now it also went on that he says what you're proposing doesn't require a permit correct it's classified as an entrance sure yeah so according to MDOT standards and typically if you think about it they look at things like shopping centers big subdivisions those things triggers this this particular use right this particular use does not require a permit correct so all that that document says is MDOT hasn't regulated in the past and there's nothing that says they're going to regulate it now right and I'll that doesn't say that that doesn't say that it's safe yeah and this goes back so there's two things what is this goes

back in 2016. but are you changing the use by adding more yeah hold on one more time and if he's if he's good he sends an email says it doesn't work don't worry about that part the other question that he needs to answer and he's doing this with me with the Union Church

Union you probably know where you're eating Old Town Halls and stuff the big white old space that I always got killed at the other day but if there's you know grandfather box some of the uses may have changed the frequency of you is going to change so he's going to take a look and say okay where can you there's a certain right-of-way which doesn't impact but he's also going to look at what is the line of site that what we're talking about so when you we have to we may have to create an entrance there and interaction they have

two pieces so yeah yeah I think that's that was that question bouncing around question for clarifying that's what we're here for tonight and then you might ask him about I'm not trying to you know let raise a sleeping dog but also is the driveway permit if it's been there forever he may very well say that's grandfather and if you've got if you've got something that says that's okay

information the the better so okay now sticking strictly to traffic safety uh did you did you all have anything if not I'm going to ask the planning board member one concern that I it comes to my mind is you would mentioned possibility of some of these obvious RVs being 45 feet pulling out onto a State Highway that is 50 mile an hour speed limit they are not going to gain 50 miles an hour very fast and they're going to be coming out there slow and I I question that I'll say to you about coming up on somebody that's doing 15 miles an hour and they're just trying to get up to speed the guy behind is doing 50 and he's right on your power how we control that how the state controls that many times when they have something like that they have an addition the state provides an additional link slowly or if you're looking at Excel lighting or right an Excel Lane to get out detailing to slow down so those are all

good you put these apps those are good questions to ask say Hey you know seven years ago 20 years ago it was some guy with a tent in the back of his whatever so the more deep because what none of us want is you don't want to be unsafe you don't want somebody getting clipped because you know whatever

aware of it yeah exactly but they ask women sometimes Chinese will help we'll alleviate key is the same distance because it is if someone's driving 50 miles an hour they see the RV they slow down well if they come up over a rise and you don't see it or they speed up get as close as they can look at the bird and hawk

so the more information he may very well just say we'll need to add a sign now throw that out there yeah we'll try to keep this moving a little bit so the next one is Public Safety impacts which is fire uh fire primarily and we get back to uh so kind of going through Georgia's comments there's no school

buildings are associated with expansion that we put in talk to the chief about uh Chief Tripp was our fire chief and so he's going to want to see some more additional information so I would strongly recommend you work with the fire chief Rod Tripp who is

Rob will say okay I'm I'm interested in that or here's what you've got to do and and I would we will be very interested and take under his his comments very seriously yeah he's already he's dead am I supposed to comment here with that or should I just stay with him directly or um for that whole time let me go through these and then we'll you'll get a chance and we'll we'll do some more but yes if

he and I exchanged emails today and so he's got some he may have answered some of them and if he hasn't just we're closely with him um so we talked you started talking about hey the there's existing roads so he we are going to be very concerned about the width of those roads and are they all weather roads because if an RV catches fire away in the game he's going to want to get his and I know you all do too so he's going to want to be able to get his truck back there he's going to want to have he'll talk to you about fire fire bonds where can he get water to to put it out uh you

do have some structures down there so so then the chief is get the chief 's approval on this Calvin is our Calvin baumiers our Public Works director if there's questions on Bros with the roads so on and so forth he's a great resource to talk to as well

drive system so the one-way traffic is parking at a block the those are all questions that you um the cell tower is on the property uh and you have any there's an easement to let the cell tower folks get back there this paragraph covers uh what happens if the tower comes down as unlikely as that may be microburst or whatever There Are Rules with the cell phone tower about a safe fall distance or whatever it may be and my guess is they will tell you you can't put a campground Within whatever that is a 200 foot Tower it's going to fall same fall distance maybe 300 please so the cell phone we need a note from the cell phone Tower owner that what you're planning is you're not going to impact their Falls their whatever they call it falls on does that make sense is that running somewhere can we get the ordinance uh it is a concern that we have about safety because it's always not so it's not a an ordinance the town has as far

as Drop Zones it is that but they have but they should have a rule the soundtrack guy will say we don't want you to put any and they may not know you're getting ready to do this yeah and it may be less of an issue that it is a trailer so it's a building so we need to get a structural engineer for the cell tower

should be able to sell and say that you can build and have maybe a trailer within X number of feet okay does that make sense yeah so they should tell you what the safe distance is you don't have anything because you think that their cell car is going to fall down yeah

falling off the tower so they're up there putting up equipment and some big 40-foot antenna Falls is there any cam site within that danger zone and I'll tell you what that is we'll probably have trees all over the place yeah but for the future exactly so just having them say it's three 200 feet 300 I have no idea so I'm taking my numbers if they say so whatever they say is with the Townsville exactly the awards the planing board so you transferring liability on the south tower guys well I'll keep you and your people so if you're inside the fall zone

I don't think like within 50 feet longer or yeah CK we have we have Miami's in a park come back and tell us it's saying our insurance company insurance companies we think the self long time yeah I understand what you're saying it's like I had an issue about the high attention lawyer not falling down and I still had to you know back then they pay the cell phone tower guy I'd be in my company so just give us that information and it should hopefully it's just as simple as a as an email and then I guess the same thing is uh what kind of and ask them to say we're going to put in another 130 some songs

yes okay so we'll see that on the site so that may have to make anything off the South Tower that's not ours Tower south tower people I understand and that's what it is with insurance and stuff like that so my insurance company would bring them around and if we're paying for insurances exactly I got it but in fact we'll call it yeah we'll call it a broadcast you've got it it sounds like there's a system to keep kids from yeah or drunk it's all locked 60 year olds absolutely yeah 70 year old um we talked about the fall zone so any other question was from you all on safety I just wanted to so this is just

safety thing which is 7.4 goes through all the impacts so it's still like this is a sort of a gray area where the planning board can say like we are all concerned about the cell tower shadow zone and wouldn't be a reason not move forward with it but it's also if they say it's 200 feet but you say but these are mitigation this is what the cell power company says when it comes down to it there still could be above where people think make that not a significant liability right well it's not to me it's whatever yeah I mean I have no control okay good anything else on saving and I guess the other thing is internal roads um 148 how do you the concern would be and we could look at it kids walking to or from the pool going to visit you know their friends down the road that was a general comment that we probably should discuss either on site how do we handle that yeah what's what's going on I'm talking about

bike Lanes or anything like that why not you know and that's just something that that I'm sure you're as interested as we are environmental trying to keep this moving environmental impacts um so here we're in the wetlands vernal pools um so I'll go through this pretty quickly there are no vernal pools on the report there are no streams on the report uh then it says but there is a small Verma pool just under 2 000 square feet that appears to be a man-made Pond between 136 of the gravel accessor is that an old Farm Pond if somebody dug that do you know is that a Bernal I'd say it's a whole pond that's uh

because that base where you can put your prayer across so that may be something you want to consider okay where look you know we'll want to know the team who want to know foreign but that is uh there is a wellness system that is not referenced in the report I don't think but it shows on one of your drawings it's a big one a relatively good sized one is that a real Wetland today that shows on one of your drawings

correct it is and the Wetland report is not reference that references the man-made pond near 136 but there's no reference to a large Wetland system the map itself could you draw something what it says here's what he looked at versus

uh minimal clearing of trees and we talked about no more than 20 of the area can be disturbed so kind of keep you know do some math to say that we're not you know we're we're bringing in a thousand foot uh whatever uh okay so at Future sites and Roads and I commend you for using what's there but we're going to be concerned about is it a as a whole year surface to get to use it if you close in the winter you know snow is not a problem but but if it's if it rains four inches like it did a couple of days ago and the fire trucks came back those are concerns that the chief will will work with you on uh any other guys on the other questions on Environmental impacts

something I don't your neighbors may want to comment on on next time has lost some of their stuff we talked about it you need to show us where the closest if all the houses are at least 400 feet from uh the campground yeah it is way on the other side of anybody but yes that's all we need to know is 100 feet from the property line in the subdivision you draw a setback line did you put that 100 feet off we see there's no campgrounds and these are not I don't think hard things for for your consultant to do um

[Music] so maybe this starts to get I guess some of the questions that Brian had [Music] you listed your hours of operation in quiet time and I appreciate all that uh more about noise and hours of operation so if you plan to keep these and going forward nine to nine for the this is the most ridiculously quiet Campground when you get in there because everybody I mean we're in bed at 9 30 10 o'clock until yeah but the clientele that we're getting we are all over it we plan to be here but you're good at all these hours uh yeah we're gonna follow those hours and I mean we're out yeah we

have that Brian started having that maybe is another place to do it and that you keep referring to is is the the nurses because that gets into the definition that's a bigger question the definition of what you got and we'll do that okay coming up so um right title or interest uh you have to have sufficient retail interest you did provide a knee with some easements the only thing and this is a a DOT the eye across the kind across the kind of thing is your certificate from the secretary of state which goes back to 2016 you can print one off the computer that'll be 2023. just please do that so that's a yeah just just to update it yeah it is crazy okay believe me I've been there when people brought stuff yeah they don't own the various planning commissions um and then the question the entrance Drive that's coming off of 136 mailboxes exercise goes up and then it goes past the pool I guess to myself is that on

your property or is it on uh the access Drive yes that's okay because the one of the systems I looked at it wasn't so we updated when we when we got the survey then we upgraded the town so they should have this recent they should have the recent uh print for the series or something

the chief one of the things you know how do I know to go when I'm there I hit 24 Leisure Lane how do I know to get this campsite one where where the heck is one where is it okay your competition up the road has given them a good map that lays out and all that stuff so he may ask if it will probably ask okay yeah like when people have a circle and these are the numbers on this circle 136 whatever so just I would ask am I telling you have to do what they do but they want to change he's going to ask you for that stuff and we'll want to make sure he's happy what he's giving him the state certificate any other questions on ownership uh financial and Technical ability um okay George we're so there's a twenty five thousand dollar discrepancy we're gonna we're gonna want an engineer estimate for this what are we going to do what what was the recommendation from a planning board the cost to build this

out is 700 000 at Bangor Bank tells them 675 and then because this we subdivision you'd have to Market there isn't it there's no clear rule on vomiting test growing whatever so the Sun Sunday user but then again we're doing this in faces as well so we're gonna do 31 years so we're not going to dish out you can't get enough people what I would recommend you do so we're comfortable with this is

1 6 so that would be one-fourth of seven hundred thousand the money is is uh to do that does that make sense to you no no no sorry I don't know why you're talking about bonding I mean we're not you guys are not taking all the roads we're not this is not what it doesn't matter it doesn't matter you need to see that money I guess yeah if you've got to jump at 40 lots a year then you're gonna you're gonna that's one-fourth of one whatever it is okay so it's forty fifty thousand dollars the first year remember two years we're going to do another one it'll be another 50 000. so that we're comfortable that this this project does not die some divisions have died you know go on to granted Boulder Hill where people are driving over Ledges to get to their house oh yeah yeah okay go ahead you guys just give a practical explanation okay so you're proposing to put a water and sewer system throughout this site and build

five very large septic systems fields is it five I think it's five four or five but in any case those septic fields are going to be servicing 100 RVs even if it's done in phases so the Board needs to be convinced that you have the financial capacity to build that infrastructure to support those campers because if you don't and you come up short some shortcuts might be taken in the piping and the fields and the wells and so yeah we're like he's like overboard everything and safety standards may not be met if pipes are not working properly sanitary conditions are not bad so that's what it's really about it's not to say yeah the you have to guarantee to the town that you're going to build this thing sure and if you don't the town's going to come in and build it for you right it's really just making sure that you have those that have Capital ability to complete the project and meet the stand Ard and you are a unique Beast because

subdivisions very clearly laid off above to get a bonding letters and credits on so forth so okay so I think that takes us through uh the finding so what will happen when we get to the to the final result what we're comfortable we have everything we need or not um we'll go through each of these and if you look at this there's a motion to approve or disapprove in a vote on that so we'll kind of do what we did here today Lord will decide that yes we believe that public health impacts they're fine on that or here's a condition that George said there's a condition of approval for that and so then I guess

what I'd like to get to is kind of going back to I'll let Brian lead it off more more what you're doing what are you asking to do and how you know if we you talk about United over the winners but how long are you going to be open you talked about nurses stay there 13 weeks but Jordan says 12 weeks and so we need you need to come in and whatever you decide to do and say this is what we're asking for we're asking to extend the open not saying we'll approve it I always throw that cabinet there but you know for us to decide that it's okay to stay open we have people living in there for Next Period of time and I'll give you kind of some of my comments on so I cut Brian off before so

[Music] whether or not you're providing RVs on these sites that people were moving into or they're coming in with their own they're coming in with their own RVs and um so basically we would like to be opening which we can clarify this in the next year I mean I can if you don't want to hear it now I can wait no no I'd like to hear it

five so purchased RVs we purchase Park Model RVs and and the famous Department yeah perhaps they're there they have wheels right that's what the ordinance was back then we had to get something on Wheels um it took us two years to get them through pandemic and stuff like that so we do have five now we just got like four two of us now I think on we have and we're looking to put the other two or three on other sites if we can if we can't we we won't but it took us two years and now there's a new board you do this and that so you know it's like we've been here for nine years we've already had three court Force offices three codes and three different people you know what we got so three years ago we did what we thought was right going forward now we're into what you know anything switch and then right what do we how do we go forward you know we're trying to do you know the right thing with what we have

some you know it's like two sets four one step back just you know so I don't that's why I'm sure we're going through this is just uh come in traveling nurses are coming in with their own camp us um April 1st um because that's when the ground exhaust and we're looking to close the end of October weather pending if we're looking and we're saying we don't want to blow our own pipes up and all of that kind of stuff so um we're looking to stay open till the end of October weather pending um we again we have a lot of people trying to stay in for periods of time we don't have people living in there we're not looking for people to live in there we're looking for you know it's it's more of long-term stays for short-term things that are going on if that makes any sense um and so we have nine right now when we bought it they were nine year-round sites you have to have a system in the ground so that the water doesn't freeze

and so those nine sites were set up for that we have um with the 36 sites that we added or the other the exercise that we had added upon the nine sites that we now may have 36. um I think five of those uh we were able to get the stuff low enough in the ground to do year-round if we wanted to if we can get approved for it if that makes any sense we have not done that yet so we're not having people you know people are not in those sight to year round we're only using those nine so um everything else week is too much ledge we can't get under the ground low enough to set it up for that and so uh it's not even an option so right now we bought the five cabins that are RV approved or whatever and that's we'd just like to cater to a small amount of the traveling nurses coming in for the winter time because they don't unders they're calling from Texas and Florida and we're like they can't find anything

they're coming in it snows yeah so um we're really not looking so all of the 113 other sites those are all going to be closed all winter that we're not the conditions we're looking for Extended Stay we're not looking for 140 something Extended Stay I don't want to bother yeah it's five extra sites besides the nine that we're looking for extended for the thing so we're not you know that all that's going to the lines get blown out that's closed up for the winter and these are all one bedroom units too we don't there's no two men in three bedroom units these are 400 square feet or less for a camper because more than that you'd be considered something else um they're on chassis they're all Army rvia certified and we're hauling them from Pennsylvania all the way to here because this is what we have to do they are they are on what are the requirements

you are you are not following the rules as they exist so if you've got people I mean the ordinance is clear you recruited as a campground it is it's just something we we have to decide if we want to work through or not so 12 weeks or period of May 15th to September 15th and there is

no nothing beyond that as it exists in the orders right now well aware so what you're you need to tell us what you want to add what you want to do so which is what I just did I've been looking for April 1st today yeah yeah and um I don't I'm not saying we're going to approve that or disapprove it or whatever but if we'd let him clarification on it because we put that in I think back four or five years ago with with that same that same question and crickets you know there was nothing and you know work we had somebody you know we're starting to get substantial investment of a lot of miles and I want to know what's going on yeah that's very annoying answer no answer is is not is

fair and I appreciate your patience with all this and I I know it's frustrating yeah somewhere that says you can only stay there so long and so forth two weeks any other time yeah and so if if you want to do you're around camping you

have to ask for it because right now you can't and then the board well yeah we can do too so so what it says is you could do two weeks any other time which is you can camp them in two weeks and you're gonna leave it two weeks you have to leave but you can't do that in the wintertime snow is obviously I agree with you yeah but you're asking absolutely yeah you're asking to say that we want year-round um so when when nurse Smith leaves nurse Jones getting you know back into his or her response yeah and I guess a question that I have is um you know when you put a floor and I understand that in the winter we need to up because the pipes where you think you can't camp in the winter time you know on a regular campground that's not set up for it um so I guess I wonder why are there why is there a period of three months or four months or whatever it is where if you go to Florida or someplace else

they're all open year round there's no well there's no yeah under attacks on 12 months anyway yeah you get taxed on 12 months and you only have three and a half months and it's just a question we're asking because I never wrote this long ago I'm far away and assumed that it was going to be camping yeah not not travel nurses not whatever it may be right another thing I have in my notes is tiny homes where does that come in there's no ordinance did can we even take tiny homes I mean not what's the board think about time you know there's nothing in there for that we understand what it was supposed to say the residence is it ordinances now I think that the town is considering tiny as primary residencies did you guys hear about anything like that there is there is work there is stuff on and we don't want to deal with that we had you can't do it as it exists now that's fine yeah and so you can just say you

know the planning board chairman you but and he won't let us do however you want to do it but I would not it's up to you you're going to come in and say we want to put tiny homes on on this okay we'll we will consider it okay and I say We'll approve it and we understand the rules of all but every time we come in and say and we're like well what happens if people are not living there I think people think they live here it's time for them to find someplace else to go you know but the the units that we have are would be they're Park Model RVs is what they are so

a campground own the RVs and say okay you could stay in these RVs if the camera owns your RVs that that's a term that's your business in my opinion that's your business plan how you want to do that I I do as personal as it but as a board member yes right now you're catering to traveling nurses who have a short lifespan would it be three months or six months but you ADD baby to ask the board I'm not trying to Prejudice anybody else but if you start talking about I don't have a place to live and I want to move in there and a lot of people whether they're homeless or not or living in their RVs because that's their lifestyle it's not

to the public tiny homes that I have I have a total different mindset of what the planning board has for the town as far as subdivisions and stuff like that I I think pumping kids in the school system is a burden on the town with a

in town that I was I was I was suggested right enough for what you want because if it is vague and you're both young and will be here a long time I hope but if you strike it rich if you win the two billion bucks that you know I gotta go buy my ticket but if you uh with a buck a million plus and you say no I'm not going to cut Grant and you sell it to somebody we have to have something called so that's our points that was the reason why I was thinking would it would it behoove us to say that you know State Long Term if you're in one of the campground units if you don't have one of the campus campgrounds can't stay and and please on your plans and documentation identify which sites are approved for which use that's going to be important parts of this is seasonal parts of it a year round clearly designate what sites are seasonal what sites are year round for what John was saying and if complaints

come in then the code officer can go in and determine whether you're in compliance or not if it's just this generic [Music] no confusion you've had a register or you know if you almost are at the at the register with the town yeah yeah

so you know we do need our taxes on the budget computer taxes so does that make sense put in as much detail as you can on the plans and uh in writing you know an explanation of what you want to do the hour of the window you want to do and then get back to us because Luke when we get there the two things were not just I was gonna end with this cabinet I thought I'll say I'll say nothing we've we've said tonight it sure guarantees that this will pass [Music] I will just say that so that people don't don't sit there and say oh this is a pretty good deal because they told them how to do it we're just they're thinking the questions that I raised and the chief that comes back and just say it's not safe so and we're going to hear from your neighbors and others that discussed here tonight so is there anything else guys that have a logistics question

um but mostly just to us so for granting change to our ordinance to make it so like attractive nurses or whoever can stay is that something that goes with the board of appeals or is that something we agree do we have the authority to give them more moles I think you do I think so not saying we will do it but if we do if we want to commercial uses not otherwise listed is pretty Broad okay so what that what this is what do would do outside the campground now there are limits to that in terms of if you trigger subdivision review by putting in tiny homes and leasing those so there are other laws that may or may not that may not cover it

like that I would work very close this is a draft of what we want to do George can say like you just said hey you you won't say yes or no that's our job but he just says well that opens it a can of worms that we're going to be more information on McMahon [Music] McMahon whatever it may be so but I would work very closely and I would tell you work very closely with your neighbors fire chief the road commissioner MDOT get all those questions answered as quick as you can [Music]

know you want to move on with what you want to do the neighbors want to have some some resolution to this as well so guys is there anything else to say yes would like to know like more information about um how many ervs you plan

not somebody bringing in because that will affect like traffic right and how many there that I can go and rent I don't have to drive into it right so how many [Music] that situation where I'm not bringing in understand what you're saying but we're just being on being on about yeah that's right and he said you still said that you know

a thousand Euro providing four thousand square feet yeah does your master plan to change that to a thousand security and double what you're asking us today I would just like to know what the bigger picture is we don't like to create everybody in like sardines because we have people what's happening is the campground

up for pop-up tents and intense and so what's happening is these people are coming in and making reservations at these campgrounds and they can't accommodate them there's three people plugging into a 50 amp the sewer is not working we've heard everything so they're coming in over here is when we bought the place that we were in the same boat and we had everything redone you know we made sure that everything was up to par and working right and that all the electrical was was good and everything so everything is is updated and conserved what they're looking for so um and again we're not doing a ton of Transit so what's happening is you know if somebody's coming in for a seasonal then they're coming in and then they're staying and for that seasonal time and then they're just using their vehicle to come back so there's not a ton right now of Transit traffic with campers coming in and out and we like it like that

that's where we're headed so please don't use internal seasonal to me is okay whatever you decide okay whatever Journey because you're you could have something or the season being 365 days oh I'm sorry no I don't yeah I don't mean year-round I mean like nobody fits in that window but I know what you're saying I mean a normal seasonal more detail you can give us and what you want to do if if things aren't working and we'd be honestly yeah sure yeah Leisure is doing exactly what they promise US they do or hey maybe not that those folks they've been there for two years what are you going to do about it nothing else is set up for a for year round except for the ones that there were already pretty much there you got to answer your question

we're not planning on getting a ton because um [Music] so detail I think detail and writing is what you're hearing from us everybody here thank you is sometime in the next week or two we need to schedule a psych visit so we need you all

be available and so I'm going to pull up my phone to see but kind of what what is a good day that it's going to work for everything you all as it's HSM you're always pretty much over there so we have to notify the public uh so anybody who wants to can walk with us they don't get that you know they should generate questions that don't get to ask at the public hearing like I saw you know a toad Crossing what are you going to do about that and um so what day guys works for us Chief said he's pretty much available I'll ask Calvin as well and George what's what's the time frame for a while in the public

uh generally seven days is more than enough so tomorrow is what the third so probably not before the 10th is what I'm do you guys send that out or is that something we have okay so as far as notifications the butters have already received from you by certified mail

and there this is public tonight so that any of the neighbors will know what's going on here they'll know that you're planting a sidewalk so as far as the neighbor notifications are concerned I think that them notifying the neighbors if this is a process

meeting laws whenever the plain War meets as a board that's a different issue and generally as long as you have seven days notice in advance what George says tomorrow the next day the planning board calendar they'll say site visit uh Durham lesion some people tell your friends and Neighbors you know what you heard and watch the calendar because it's God forbid something changes uh but you know you could you can plan it to folks can plan to be there and walk what we want to do on a site visit is look at everything you've told us look at the cell tower look at the fence look at the entrance look at the structures Steve's going to ask you about you know where what are you thinking about for ponds it's a good you know good chance to exchange questions although you probably ought to do that uh separately so having said all that so the 10th or later gentlemen maybe the 11th or later to make sure we can get

enough time out there what works 11th is a Friday the 16th is Wednesday yeah earlier in the week is very better for US Senate Friday but Friday is probably not going to be a good the 16th the Wednesday the 16th Tyler you need to shake your head yes or no yeah I can make that work okay time six o'clock too early

meeting I'll be tired so I've got all the time in the world like in the morning apparently there are some time there are other people who do I'm watching my dog so 5 30 is that is that doable for what does that make sense we do it five fine for me that works 5 30. so 5 30 on Wednesday the 16th meet would have to meet at your place the swimming pool office I remember there's a sign there so there'll be five six seven eight cars depending on how many other folks the chief this is the chief will be yeah there's a visitor parking on the other side okay so is he going to bring us by a truck yeah you will actually the new the new truck is probably the emergency response Vehicles

hello Karen uh I think my feeling is I'm turning to my right we should do a public hearing yes yes okay so we will advertise that for the September meeting whatever that date is so a public hearing for everybody's information would be it looks like the 6th of September and we it's a formal hearing we open it up we'll kind of do what we did and start here we'll kind of go back over what we've been changes and then the public will get the opportunity to come up and voice your opinion control Khan

we'll the board will review that so uh our regular meeting is 6 30 on the 6th of September the first Wednesday whatever that is it'll also be on the calendar the agenda for that the package of the information that they provide us and our our response the draft minutes will be on there I commend you the YouTube

planning board or whatever it is we'll be there so if you want it if your neighbors that couldn't come other people are interested please have a look at it so you get a chance to ask questions we'll close the planning the public hearing and then after that going forward it's just between the planning board and the petitioner with you having the opportunity to provide any concerns in writing writing okay so having said all of that

folks so you made it please thank you thank you very much thank you for your patience we will get you an answer you know what the answer is yet but we will get you an answer you need a need to be any input on from us on the affordable housing well I did as a result of the equipment from the last meeting makes some changes in The Proposal and terminology but my senses the board wants to move forward with the Dual components of

following the comprehensive land recommendations for addressing housing needs my allowing two accessory apartments on a two acre lot with a single family or one accessory apartment on a duplex on a two acre lot and then utilize the allowance in the new housing

density law to require larger lot size with two acres per unit if people go with full-size housing units so the idea would be to go forward with a public participation process like we did last year including a survey I will be getting in touch with Matt vanisela and the greater Portland Council of governments to see if they can assist with a survey on the web which will kind of take we did kind of a generalized question back then what are your concerns now we'll say here's the specific proposal to respond to those concerns both the concerns that you've heard of the first survey about people being concerned with their family can't move here either kids can't come back or parents can't come to take care of the kids grandkids so this part of it the comprehensive plan addresses that but people are also concerned about impacts on taxes and lost rural character people put in big houses right beside each other three

houses on the same lot they'll have to have six acres of land to do three to address that concern so then you just go do another survey public participation process see what you hear from both responses and you end up that you can the idea based on if the strong public input says just to do what the state says don't allow these accessory apartments or vice versa allow the accessory Apartments if someone wants to put a full-size house on the same lot let them do it but we're not going to have multiple options I guess what I'm trying no no no you're going to propose this is what this is being proposed what do you think and as I described in the revised presentation these are potential outcomes of that as opposed to here are your options or here are your choices just say this is what this says this is what can happen are you concerned about any of that happening get that get that feedback and

then decide okay do we want to change this proposal one more one way or the other and then so take that public input both through the survey public Workshop more one one or more and then reformulate and decide what you want to present to the software so that's kind of a plan so the real question is continuing to go forward oh and the other thing is is that the last meeting I think Annie raised the issue of well can you require two acres for the second accessory Department camp for one but you can you for the second one so we're saying we're going to allow two accessory Apartments uh mmas have said their lawyer has said you probably can so theoretically you could require four acres for that single family with two accessories Apartments so the question is do you want to add that into the mix or do you want to just stick with look we've got this simple one even though we could do that the planning board favors following the

comprehensive plans which you've decided several meetings so we're not gonna even though we could do that and and if you get public input that expresses concern about the number of accessory departments you could you could consider that I think that's a back pocket [Music] when do you think

it now I'll start working on uh I mean you've already seen basically your presentation but now I'll start working on survey questions to try to say okay what questions and do you have questions that you I'll I'll start with something and then you can add change modify whatever right when I looked at your the PowerPoint thinking this is not this can't go ahead

well you can't really dumb it down a lot more because people won't understand what what we're proposing uh so I think just understand and this is what we did last time we'll kind of present this try I try to explain it as simple as we can disclosures as we can but it's a complicated issue so then we'll try to come up with generalized questions that say you know are you concerned with multiple accessory apartments on a single family lot if that lot is the same size something like that or do you think you you you're concerned that if people are going to be putting multiple homes on the same lot that should require a much larger lot size so we can have the questionnaire or survey be more General dumb down but I think you'd have to provide this information on the website just so people yeah I'm not sure I agree I think we've been there kind of done I mean I kind of think we should come up with what we want to do

tell us opinion and it was whether it's two acres and you get a house single family house and two Apartments whatever you want to call them if you want another single family home single family home a single family home it's not four acres six acres I mean I just kind of think we would if we what is your feelings then I think we just get a lot of feelings and I don't know how much you know somebody comes in and says well I get to have room for my in-laws but I don't want them during the grill we're back to where we were yeah I think you are I think you're missing what I'm suggesting what I'm suggesting is you've got the original General concerns both directions you come up with a plan that in your view addresses both sets of concerns now you want to test these specific parts of this with people here's here's the specific proposal and as Brian's saying okay we're not going to say do you favor this part in detail

it's more of it he wants I think what I'm hearing and say you need a more generalized dumbed down explanation or question right yeah I just like when I look at your I just think that sending this out made more clear but I also think

this amount of information has to be presented because it's it's there's I don't think there's a really simple way to say it yeah I think like like just to nitpick a few things like the potential outcomes with the oars yeah the orthogonal ores might be a better way to display that but I think all all the information that's on that page needs to go out I think it's just just maybe massaging the tonight and have an answer and again and again and maybe like you say the the written yeah [Music] I mean just get rid of all the graphics just say you favor allowing a second accessory apartment on the same lot with a single family if it already has an existing accessory in the survey then my other question is because I agree with that part of that do we do the public information

of take the opportunity to explain and then we'll said okay watch it on TV here's here's what we're thinking about is this kind of which is this is what you're thinking about is this what do you think of this or do you favor you know that starts again the public information you just basically explain the new law here's what's going to happen as of next July if the town does not here's why the comprehensive plane

consistent because Ian was taking issue with that doesn't specifically say single family with two accessory even though it's three and the plan says three so basically present that information which is really that presentation at the public meeting then take public input and say okay we're going to be doing the survey we've taken your because like I said might revise some of this but then we're going to announce we're going to be putting out a survey between now and December 1st or whatever it's going to be this will be getting survey so get neighbors other people you know in town to answer the survey because we're going to take that input not just the 20 people that show up yeah we've laid it out they've got a chance to look at it on television we go to the election again and try to explain it I mean there was a lot of good questions

election but so that would be my thought if so we get that out there and we bit but if the consensus is I don't want to grow stock growth then it's been coming upon us and it's likely to say you know we we say this is what we're going to do is we're going to come back and say no but it's all statement and then I say they will but it's like when it's with policy loss

uh changing you know and then I guess they had included interrupted into stay tuned involved with the Weeds on changing people down but we certainly had to add we'll have a year plus and play is what you know you know thank you state law allows us to do between we've been better than what find it find

if we give you all out of the saddle table first you know what happens yep so but I like the idea of keeping and I've been confused with the graphics but if you have a chance to explain it and answer questions and somebody can watch YouTube and but what I think they should avoid is five or six public hearing us let's not do that again let's have public information to gather the information get it out maybe tweet what

here's what we heard you to say here's the tweeting to that and get that input back and decide if we tweak it again and then article with all the public hearing a job goes on it I think last year we did a lot of meetings at some point what time it worked any benefit from Pennsylvania is to do informational Maybe

we're changing please so the other ones that were out there solar historic history historical districts working on there's you're meeting with them on August 10th right yeah see what they're doing [Music] oh then the appeals award the appeals board we may have to get more involved they haven't jumped up it's they're going to work with George and the drowning but we may have to do the public here in Wisconsin so so basically I mean they only meet once a year if needed so they're really not engaged um uh what I will do is I've already drafted the Amendments following what we had discussed in terms of making it simpler for somebody to expand their existing home in the resource protection uh or business so I'll be I'll be sending them and pulling the board of appeals out of reinterpretation we met with Barb Schneider she said those make sense they get some concerns about the expansions but they agree

detailed engineering plans is probably better with the planning board than the board of appeals first boundary determinations select board did have some reservations you were there John about this idea I think it was probably based on a little bit of misunderstanding of what the roles are of the two boards and so um I will send a draft an explanation to

the board of appeals and ask for their feedback on it depending on if they want to meet with me I'll be more than happy to do that otherwise I'll take whatever comments they have and bring them to you so that when when and if the historic district commission comes with a proposal you will have that proposal as well I probably did There's dyslexic but

they're probably three or four responsibility the one who handles Appeals and maybe they should not be that process but I think the misunderstanding was asking for a determination of the boundary of the of the research Protection District is not an appeal right it's administrative decision that whether it's sometimes at the planning board do it sometimes have the appeals board do it most towns have plenty more to do it so it's not an appeal that's what

yep so next meeting uh would be the 6th of August and it looks like uh Ruby Lane is coming in today we got a today's copy of that package to take a look at that will be on the agenda next time September yes and existing University and they're only here for schedule so yeah yeah so so this this stuff that was just given to [Music] him for the next that's for next month those are the hard copies I just wanted to give them to you tonight what's the that was just my update on the master planning because okay

vacation especially Nelson Juliette may have noticed isn't a butter to the project so that she can't participate so she you have to kind of treat her like everybody I don't miss her she's got great ideas but but I don't know but please don't have a discussion

recusing yourself from an application and again different lawyers have different perspectives on this but generally there's an issue of that board member clearly can't vote on it for under he or she have a financial interest which could be you know they do this project it values their property or they benefit from it but there's also the issue of bias and so even if they don't have a if if that board member then sits down and makes statements to the effect of well as a planning board we never did this to try to influence the board that so is and it's kind of a tricky thing where you have a board member losing a butter because they have the right to participate in the process because they do have their own property interests so it's a it's a real tricky area but always lean on the on the uh definitely don't they don't vote but they shouldn't participate in the board discussion and they should be clearly indicating any is

it just from the perspective of an environment not from the perspective of planning board membership [Music] we're on we owe these folks and Hill throughout their coming back in at some point in time so we got a busy time we are a short down person so

essentially Brian get you know brought up in the major leagues uh but we needed my La player to fill in behind them yeah the buildings and there's and there's so many people there's probably still going to motion to adjourn I'm going to go shut it off oh yeah well we can't discuss after this yes second oh my favorite technically you can discuss or just do it so yes so the other 16 and I think they said it their office I think I drove up there a long time ago like a year ago as far as a little bit in and this go