TranscriptPlanning Board Meeting ~ December 4, 2024

getting the tour looking at things I said I wanted to have it inspected so the guy went and inspected and gave me a report and I told my real EST okay let's move forward and she comes back 6 hours and tells me sold I was like what

said see can it is it coming through I see it on the hello I don't think we're getting the want to try talking hello hello hello hello there we go it's okay 6:30 and we have much to do so uh let us begin welcome to the regular meeting of the Durham uh planning board Wednesday December 4th at 6:30 p.m. first thing is roll call and determination of quarter Quorum there are five members present so we have a quorum next step is the Pledge of Allegiance if you'll rise and join Pledge of Allegiance I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all okay thank you do we have any amendments to the agenda I have two I'd like to discuss at the end of our meeting uh one is the uh CEO monthly report and the other is an email we received on November 14th regarding Granite Hills okay um let's put those at the end and if we

don't get get to them we should be able to anybody have an objection to that Amendment no if not I have a motion I'll make that motion second I'll second it so it's been moved and second it any further discussion if you agree raise your hand please unanimous okay that will come at after uh uh after before we get to the uh uh whatever call it there Town officials I'm sorry we're into uh acceptable me meeting minutes anybody have any any comments on last November 6th meeting changes recommended if not I'll accept a motion to approve so moved so move second second Mark second uh any further

discussion seeing none please raise a hand to approve unanimous informational exchange on non-agenda items uh George um you're probably all aware that on November 19th the T special town meeting adopted the moratorium on battery energy storage systems and the select board met subsequent to that and asked the town attorney to prepare amendments to the land use ordinance to Institute contract zoning as a mechanism for controlling the locations of those facilities and ask you folks to uh put together the battery energy storage uh system performance standards which we had been working on so uh there will be no uh potential of an application coming before the next town meeting at least uh and that will give us time to put those regulations together and we have scheduled a special Workshop meeting for a week from tonight for you folks to look at both the uh standards as well as the contract zoning and we have invited

the town attorney to to be here and present that part of it the contract zoning part we're going to talk more about that at the end yeah okay probably not a lot of detail but we'll at least get the discussion started um anything else George no uh informational exchange on non okay residents anybody want to talk about anything that's not on the agenda seeing none non-residence anybody want to talk about anything that's not on the agenda uh moving on to six continuing business public hearing on preliminary plan application for proposed Phase 2 of Bo Hill subdivision map 10 lot 38 public comment will be taken um and George if you want to give us a staff notes and I can read the uh rules if did you have anything else other than no I will just summarize um as you as you will uh recall from prior uh public hearings on uh subdivision applications the pretty much the procedure is for you John to go

over the rules and uh then we would uh hold the public hearing and during that public hearing you can uh receive public information and give opportunities for the uh applicant to hear those public comments and then respond to them and that's all part of the process so I don't know if you want to run down through all the details I'm not sure it's necessary since nobody wants to talk uh do I need to officially open you should open it and close it just for the uh I will officially open the public hearing at

talk about Bowie Hill for public hearing seeing none I will close it at 6:33 and I won't no need to run through the rules uh so public hearing so that takes care of 6A 6B is Subs review of preliminary plan application for proposed phase two of Bowie Hill subdivision map 10 lot 38 and in this case no the public comment will not be taken you've had your chance uh George do you want to go through uh staff notes we can have quickly summarize the uh notes that I prepared to brief the planning board on this application uh as John indicated we're here for a preliminary plan uh review of the uh buoy Hill Phase 2 uh they're going to be extending the existing Matty Lane approximately 1100 ft uh they are continuing to use a cluster uh approach to this subdivision layout which would allow them to have 1 acre lots with uh or larger with 100 50 ft of Road Frontage rather than 300 as the standard uh each of the wells uh each of the Lots

will be served by private Wells and septic systems and uh the applicant uh did uh update the fees uh not on the application but they have paid the uh full application fees that that were increased by the select board back in July and uh they've also provided the peer review escrow for you to get consultations on the engineering uh or any other technical matters that uh you see in this review uh they do have soil tests for each of the Lots showing that they passed the main plumbing code including the lot out on buy Hill Road uh they've also provided evidence of uh well yields in the area and pretty much what you typically look for if there's an area where they're having trouble getting well water then that would be something to look into there aren't there are not any do documented uh problems with getting uh groundwater for well well purposes in this area um they have shown well exclusion

zones uh for each of the Lots no well can be within 100 ft of the septic systems and when you do a cluster lot working with a smaller lot that obviously makes things Tighter and so I did point out in my notes that uh for phase two and that's actually phase one up there now uh let me see I get there's phase two so when you put in those well exclusion zones uh it they take up about 3/4 of the lot so one of the issues would be where would the wells be located the septic systems are on the front of the lots that means that the wells are going to have to be on the back of the Lots in areas that were designated as uh being remain vegetation so I just think that the uh consultant didn't really correlate everything on those and that's that's not atypical uh but we have uh indicated the need to clarify what portions of the Lots will be cleared and what portions of the lot will be remain buffer as buffers and

vegetated areas and that can be done on the final plan um they uh as is required there will be a couple of storm water treatment areas in this uh in this subdivision and they will need to have easements so that the homeowners association can go on to the private Lots as opposed to any where if they were located in common areas uh and so the final plan again should show those easements uh for access to the storm water treatment areas uh the applicant has requested as part of this updated application a waiver of the uh requirement for on-site water protection and your packet does include um a memo from the fire chief indicating that if all the homes are sprinklered he's okay with waving the requirement for the fire Pond uh and the form for doing that is in your packet you can review it it would be under the performance standard sections of the waiver as opposed to the uh submissions or procedure uh this project uh will

require a site location permit they've now exceeded the de thresholds and we'll have to go to D for that that's typically done after preliminary approval approval uh and any changes that D required that don't substantially change the layout or the plan they might look at some of the details on the storm water treatment those sorts of things uh but once they have that site location permit that would be one of the state reviews that they would submit with their final plan application uh this project is within the Watershed of uh runaround Pond and

if you're in the Watershed of a Great Pond under main law in our ordinance you have to do a phosphorus management plan which looks at how much phosphorus will be coming from the paved areas the roofs and all of that flowing toward uh in runoff toward runaround Pond where it has uh effects of causing Al algae growth this is quite a distance it's in the upper reaches of the Watershed so I don't think it's an issue but and most of the flow from this will go into Wetland areas uh but their analysis should show how much is going to be generated ated by the subdivision and then how much uh uh is needed to attenuate that which can probably be done with just vegetative buffers but that's an analysis that the engineer will have to do and I have prepared conditions of approval and as we've uh kind of this new uh approach we've done over the last few years the preliminary plan review if everything looks okay in

terms of the standards um what we do is typically they have conditions of approval that kind of check off all the boxes so that uh overall it looks like it meets the standards but you'll get into the findings and the the detailed uh documentation of everything for the record uh at your final plan review so we'll have an opportunity to process everything prepare draft findings and then that'll be part of the final plan review process as well so that's where we are okay okay um I don't mean might not be rude but if you would eat your dinner there's a little kitchen area next door all done thank Youk you okay um so

applicant if you would uh care to address the project in your Boo and one I'm part of the development team uh Charlie Burnham's our civil engineer I think uh everything good description of what we've done and what we're trying to accomplish

did the applicant did provide an additional uh exhibit here that they handed out just before that George I think you got a copy of it and it looks like the Standalone mot uh you want to give us just a little bit of information on that yeah I believe he had request we were talking about that right to see the setbacks from from the existing driveways and then a sight distance out coming out of that okay I it's not a private road per se um but the drive yeah just driveway I did yes thank you you you have to go for a driveway permit as well but I just wanted to see how this aligns with other driveways right across the way that's quite helpful thank you for addressing okay uh I guess we will then address the

uh waiver first and um they have requested a waiver of uh the standard that requires a um fir Pond and your section one in fact is using sprinklers no fire Pond if I'm not mistaken so this is phase two and extension of that the Durham fire chief has said he is okay with that uh but any discussion from the planning

approve the waiver so moved second second moved and seconded any further discussion B it's basically a precedent that we've already set for the subdivisions there's other fact of this subdivision it's really it's not nothing new is if people are questioning that ah good point anything other discussion seeing none if you are in favor please raise a hand one two three four five uh it passes 5-

that done the waiver um and so as George said uh he did a uh very good review of the plans uh but if there's any board comments questions on his his review or if there's anything additional that you found as the board found as they were reviewing it I would like to talk about the you used your question sorry is it okay shes um

uh yield so um I'm just trying to understand is it Mar markot marot marot did he did he draft this domestic water well inventory map um so I judging by the report he says um that pretty much there should be enough but just looking at did you all look at the the data points here you've got zero gallons per minute zero gallons per minute one gallon per minute two gallons per minute like nearby per minute yeah GPM right isn't that what that means well of the of the eight Wells you've drilled yeah we oh you've already drilled well well they've got the first 13 months yeah so what do you what do you have yeah there's been no issues we it's ranged from 8 gallons per minute to three gallons to three okay okay yeah that was just generally I saw the report and he says there's you know he's the geologist so I just wanted to say I okay good thank you anything else yes phosphorus management process so what is

that going to look like the review of that you want me or no kind of George uh yes but you all have done something with phase one so uh or anybody I would let the applicant okay so what are you doing in phase one phase one we're using those storm plans and the forest buffers we don't actually have Forest buffers on the back side of that we caught enough of it in the ponds and that Ridge the road is the dividing line between the sub the the aquafers there's actually three aquafers that we drain to we go north we go well I guess that's West North and South is runaround pond so we caught most of it send it to to a pond on the west side of that road which sends most of the runoff away from runaround Pond um this next side those pwns will also treat it from a from a phospherous standpoint any part of the Yards that we don't catch georia is right and that will'll throw a forested buffer along the back sides of these

properties and that will it's a pretty it it it coincides with your storm water treatment what you do from a quality standpoint for storm water generally takes care of your phosphorus as well the forested buffers will give us that little extra Edge on the runaround side but it's a pretty um the DP has to approve it as well it goes through them if that helps yeah if that's really your question is that it is kind what's the process there you guys have adopted their standard but when I go to them with our site law they'll they'll also look at that so how did we what did we do last time they they reviewed approved and then we review and approved they didn't go to D last time didn't triggered the D but I

still included a phospherous control plan that meets the D standards okay so allegedly once that plan is in place how is it monitored same way the storm water management plan is the m the maintenance on those storm water devices still has to be so every storm water treatment device I put in there is also the phospherous treatment okay and those have a maintenance schedule and in the back end of that report that the post construction maintenance plan that they have tier to and and the HOA is responsible for doing what as the developers done moved out the HOA picks up the responsibility and and I like to include them off the backs of the property so if they're not even on somebody's property they can't cut them anyways so we can get forested buffers which this place is perfect for because again it's only this East Side that drains to it so I've got all that space on the east side to forested

buffer and I wish i' let us count the wetlands that it drains to because that that's some pretty solid treatment as well um I I missed the last meeting so I apologize um did you all talk about like vernal pools and things like that already zero Wetland zero zero W next pH we don't touch anything oh wow okay even with your storm water um thing jigs y okay yep we right along the top edge of those ones so we're close to them but we dumped out the outside I think from a lot impact standpoint lot 26 might touch that finger when they put a driveway

itself the road z11 okay okay okay that's it for now John thank you okay are we going through the entire application right now is it the preliminary uh preliminary yes I so there were some comments I made last month um that hadn't been picked up and I apologize for not mentioning that during the meeting minutes portion but um you still mentioned Deer Creek Crossing you still mentioned uh cumblr County instead of and scogan County on your um uh um

there's again typo kind of stuff but I hope it's resolved by the final application um map unit descriptions there's the last sentence here that just kind of Fades off yeah yeah clerical errors will yeah make sure I hope so thank

going to my left on set set okay um I have two actually from the um Public Works director uh that he wanted to make sure followed up one is uh on this drawing that you just presented that that driveway you annotate the line of sight right at right at BO Hill so maybe you've done that okay I see 870 80 okay I'll get that to them that'll final package for sure is and I was going to say this is final plan stuff the other one he's concerned is had we've had problems in other subdivisions that um when you're leaving the main Ro mty Lane and you're going through a drive he'd like to see a detail on your final plan of what that crossing looks like is there a culvert under there how are uh where's the how where's the water going I think is this concerned because we apparently had that he didn't mention your subdivision as an issue but in other subdivisions we started having problems with that getting clogged up

flowing out on the main drag and so on the final plan if you would put those two uh you've got it on one if you put that second one on each of your uh driveway Crossings actually can I just talk on that note real quick are you proposing is this are you proposing CTS will have to have one yeah EAS each one yeah okay and then under the main road as well there's already one there okay there won't be anything happening across under anything because I got a pond on either side yeah so both dishes will come down and go nothing crossing under there be nice you said it's already there do you mean for the existing ex new one I meant the existing that big crossing the new one will have won't have any won't have any well well we're Calvin's I'm assuming Calvin's referring to the the beginning of Matty Lane and making sure that we have an Ade adequate cver which we've already installed obviously yeah right there but

the but but the I don't care about that we've already been past that yeah right but the new one lot whatever oh lot 26 is driveway will also have to have a c yeah okay and I'll include actually that's a good point because I think our driveways have a 15inch CT noted maybe it's 18 but I think it's 15 is your minimum but that driveway will probably need a bigger one to match what's above it cuz the slope it's a big it's a big ditch there so yeah just to be clear his comments were uh the road that you just presented the driveway so Culvert there and each of the other 13 Lots the driveway uh you've got a drainy ditch parallel running along Matty Lane he wants a detail how you're going to cross that you know what water transportation cover or whatever you're doing there all yeah so every yeah every driveway has a Culver and I yeah that was my fault the new you're talking about the auxiliary lot the satellite lot having a Culver of

big enough C there Y and it's just a detail for those each driveway not each driveway drawn on the map okay those are were my comments I've got two more okay real quick uh existing stone wall I think we talked about in the field uh relocating um that it looks like there's just really one right m long one um and then the peer review so we're

going to do that U required ahead of final is that what I recommend that the applicant go to goral Palmer with their final plan application have goral Palmer review the engineering and come in with the sign off by the peer reviewer it'll make the final plan review go much quicker okay is there so they work directly with goral Palmer versus us no they would just submit their plans to us okay provide a copy to goral Palmer we will ask goral Palmer to do the review uh and then hopefully the applicant can submit the uh the package and we will have goral Palmer's comments on it at the same time as opposed to they submit it you table it we send it to goral Palmer comes back they talk to goral Palmer they make changes and it just it will expedite the process if they work everything out with goral Palmer in advance of coming back for the final plan meeting with you copy y okay

everyone's up here yeah anything else going around one more time okay so George has put together the draft conditions of approval assuming that's what we want to do on this thing um there are a couple of things that I would like to add that George I'm not sure that I've seen in in here one is I would like to uh if we approve it uh

make a comment that when they submit the final plan it will have technical typo questions that Mr lenois has brought up before that those be taken care of okay so let's make sure that is all done before it comes back in Brian okay with that thank you uh the other one is that will be a detail on the final plan for the culverts uh underneath driveways and the one on U the lot not sure what that is lot 13 uh but that will also be taken care of and you'll transfer the um line of sight distances to the final plan um are there any other things that we want to I don't know where to add those George in which number here if they're separate numbers or we can just make it align um I think they would go on uh just We'll add it as a I can either incorporate it at appropriate places or we can just add those at the end I leave that to your wisdom and judgment and I make sure that they're Incorporated excellent so the three were

the correcting all typos uh details on the driveway culverts and then the adding the site distances that's it I believe okay are there uh any other additions deletions to the draft that uh the Tom planner has prepared if not to have a motion to approve or disapprove I'll make a motion to approve second moved in second and to approve any further discussion seeing none please raise a hand if you vote Yes it is unanimous and

uh you are done until final plan now what please please you know what I'm going to say please please come in with everything all the D approvals all that because just before you bring it back to us make sure all that stuff is there thank you all very kindly have a merry Christmas thank you thank you okay uh I'm the back to the agenda okay so substance review is done next is a maintenance agreement review for cranberry drive off Swamp Road map 4 lot

103b Public comment will not be taken uh Mr the you want to go over your notes yes the applicants are requesting a maintenance agreement for cranberry uh Drive which is also in some documents label cranberry Lane uh there is a series it serves a series of family backlots uh that started I guess back in 1999 according to the Deeds uh and the most recent one was created this year in 2024 and under uh section 5.23 of the

land use ordinance that was added back in 200 for uh any of these uh back lot easements um especially the ones serving multiple lots are required to have a uh recorded easement for the maintenance of those and uh that has to be reviewed and approved by the planning board which is why they're before you tonight so some of these Lots may have been exempt from that because they occurred prior to 2004 but after 2004 if they added any new Lots these requirements kicked in those requirements of the ordinance uh are that the uh maintenance agreement has to include a statement of ownership of the right of way uh that all parties to it have to be part of the maintenance agreement a statement that the town is not responsible for that maintenance and will not be a requirement that all future owners uh this will pass with the with the Deeds for those lots uh uh and that if there are other existing uh so

say some of those lots that occurred before the ordinance went into effect they are required to make an offer for those own prior owners to participate but they're not required to but they have to give de documentation that they have made the offer and it was refused uh and one of the sticking points on this application that I did point out is that the ordinance requires that the all of the it's not really an association but all of the parties to the maintenance agreement have the authority uh legally to file a lean on any of the law owners that don't pay their share of the maintenance costs uh and the applicant was provided a a uh template from a subdivision or excuse me a a similar family development uh it's called James place where the planning board did approve a maintenance agreement unfortunately that was before we started uh I started working with the board and it didn't really require that

uh lean uh provision but that is in the ordinance which I do not think you have the authority to wave so uh that's one issue hopefully to be resolved tonight it does require that the maintenance agreement be recorded and it directs that the code officer can't issue any building permits for any uh of the lots that are being created until that uh maintenance agreement is recorded after approval by the planning board the applicants submitted uh the application as well as the uh maintenance agreement they that they they've already agreed to and as I said they used the James place as a template which was not uh correct

and uh as I did the only issue I see in in the uh maintenance agreement is that lack of a uh lean applicants uh if one two or three of you would like to come up and represent please you know more about this situation I let the others escape please give your names and address speak into the microphone Tyler larell 30 cranberry Lane Jennifer lell 30 cranberry Lane okay um did you have anything you wanted to add to Mr thar's comments okay then I will take uh comments from uh the planning board members and I would start with this one of my questions is it cranberry drive or is it cranberry Lane the sign at the end of our driveway says cranberry Lane when we get our tax bills says cranberry drive so that's why I use both because I wasn't [Music] sure which one um what is identified on a

would be the uh Lo illegal yeah I would think so to also has a street uh Street list map whatever not quite sure we had all the copies conflict within the town other cranberries well it's true because I I know one other subdivision was going to use cranberry and if wait a minute we already have one we can't use another one because if you're looking fored it access so drive so one of the one of them says Drive yeah um hopefully they all see Dr I hope

idea I have is the town has a street map Street yeah street name map or street whatever they are we could use that as a u the official as all I'm fine with accepting drive and moving on well usually the tax bill uh represents what's on a deed y but exhibit a says Lan so what's that from this is his this is we gave him land last spring but this is his deed oh and it was recorded as cranberry Lane beginning at a point Eastern side of cranberry Lane does it turn is one part of it dve and another part of it it's just all one yeah okay

first page of his one deed it says who's the mailing address is 30 cranberry drive and then on the first page of his exhibit a it says Lane interesting and then it says then running southeasterly perpendicular to Cranberry drive so I think it's I think

there yeah maybe two I think they're two I think maybe at that inter like intersection it turns into one of the other do they reference slot numbers to see where we can figure out where it may change well we had to name it when we built because it's our driveway and it was so long it needed to have a name Here's a thought the that I think would hopefully cover this the issue because the easement the um uh maintenance

agreement has covered both correct right drive and Lane yes so instead of Drive SL Lane we make it drive and lane or Lane and drive so this is for cranberry drive and Lane okay okay I'm want to roll today okay so we're going to one of the changes we're going to ask you to make is drive and Lane wherever that is because it sounds like there's two and uh we'll go from there okay uh that's my first comment anybody else have any others one question I have uh knowing that our road

maintenance ordinance has been changing throughout the years where uh we get into the third house I I know this these houses have been built prior to those changes on the ordinance where the road had to be 50 ft wide and paved but I don't think that that meets any of those requirements now Okay so so uh that only applies in subdivisions and you can have a subdivision that goes through all the review process they weren't family members and if they had four Lots the whole Road would have to be paved they could have three lots with a gravel road and that's the limit so that that provision was not properly applied in the past right they let the first three lots of the road be gravel and then PID after that that's not the intent of the ordinance so that's the only change has been the way that that's been applied and it does not apply to these

were subdivided in the future as long as they're exempt from legal subdivision review they can keep that road gravel okay so I think what he said is you don't have to PVE it but unless you come in with a subdivision you want to come in with the subdivision do I saw okay Never Say Never uh okay so we're good on that yeah I am I it's it's just one of those things that I want to clarify because I there are there are publics that come out and they question how how did this happen and how come they don't have to pave their road we know and we we know we do get that question mark you have anything can you George can you explain

about the the concern with um you have and this is a family apparently they they have very good relations and uh have maintained the road but there are family feuds and there was a lawsuit in this town just up the road uh with the similar or actually is up the road from the uh the subdivision that you're going to be reviewing in a minute um and the town got embroiled in a lawsuit over the use of the private way and so the intent is to have this be maintained and uh monitored and enforced by the the lot owners and not involve the town so the way that you make sure that all the parties participate in the cost of that and they get into arguments over well we're on the end you should pay more and they have to work that out some do have a proportional thing but if it's all equally paid they all have to pay and this gives all of the lot owners if you've got one recalcitrant lot owner who won't pay uh then they have a way to

deal with that without drawing the town into it so that's how it works and it is a requirement in the same way the home own Association they have to do they have the same but it's not technically in here uh it's not in the it's not in the draft or the uh that they submitted is it is in the

in here that they strongly urge all Property Owners to make assistance to support and carry the burden of anyone unable to un or are unwilling to pay to serve according to this agreement in lure of lean so they are addressing it uh but knowing how families can be families at times hopefully that never

to accept it and if you're not we may or may not be willing to approve it but uh and I don't take I'm not going to say this this slightly but there there are couple of things that that I would like to see changed in this particular paragraph the one is easy in my mind the town of Durham main planning board requires it it's not the planning board it's our land use ordinance so it's not like you know we just got together and said let's make him do this so please drop the planning board piece of that and then the other one is um we

dropped the last sentence as Christians we strongly urge all Property Owners to make assistance and support carry the burden of anyone unable or unwilling to pay or serve according to this agreement L Lou of Lane um I appreciate that I'm sure that that may or may not happen over time but I think it dilutes or confuses the fact that you have to lean them yeah that was in the temp yeah that

we used and actually I had taken that part out to begin with but there was discussion it's a legal document that's going to be submitted right and we're looking at each other going I don't want to put a lean on you you know we've been up back here for 20 some odd years the first two houses were in in the 90s and volis was in 200000 beginning of 2004 so

we've just been doing it and now it's our son that's next well and there there is a road where uh in Durham where it's never been done and some people are sucking it all down themselves but it's a pain you know filling holes and everything else so if George let me ask you and and the planning board members if we change it to say the town of Durham requires that this agreement permit um uh Property Owners to place a lean on the property of a signatory has not satisfied their share allocated to them in the amount of the unpaid assessment to the for the cost of maintenance for cranberry Lane and drive or drive in Lane just to keep it the same the private deed way end of end of paragraph does that work it's your decision does that yes I

get a motion okay so has not for those of you watching has nothing to do with religion one way or another uh and I do actually sat in as an alternate uh when that discussion was where how that ended up long ago so can I ask you a question where did this template come from us so

we had this in our template this was an approved okay they were handed if if you remember probably four years ago three years ago there was a family that came in that did not want to U have the the lean verbiage and it was a three or four beating event to and then I think this was a a compromise of the time but my feeling is that in um we're going to revisit this it's yeah it's not the right it dilutes the language of recording the the lean so okay if everybody's good with that I will take a motion with um just to make sure I'm I'm clear on this one is we change CR cranberry Drive SL Lane to Cranberry drive and

Lane uh and does that have to be then plural the private deed rights of way they just just change cranberry drive lane to Cranberry drive and lane and then wherever you see that uh it be the same so a couple of different places where it says cranberry Drive SL Lane it become cranberry drive and Lane U that's there's like six or seven of those and then get rid of the chisan and then yes please the as Christians in Lou of lean delete that line and make get the town of Durham and yes thank you and delete the planning

board I'll amend the motion to include those two a second I'll second that we have a motion in a second any further discussion no the only question is once this has been changed okay this will be registered in the MC County register of deeds and there'll be a book and page number assigned to it so okay yes you get rid of the page one of three I think and well it'll be more than that they they assign they assign the book and page once you bring it to the end of scogan regist Deeds

a the rest of it has to have the right day and George how do we can we go forward from here saying that you have to make these changes if you're bringing back something else to the code enforcement guy he's not going to accept it correct is that fair yep so understand so make the changes get it in uh registered and recorded and come back then you're good to go so the the one thing that I would be concerned about if I was one of the land owners how is this maintenance agreement attached to their original book and page numbers that they have referenced within this I don't know how that works many many times you're having a uh addendum to a deed and it's usually it's attached to

there's a sale going forward or a transfer going forward that'll be part of that it'll reference that agreement they'll find it through TI but I don't think they have to go back and change all their current needs no I don't I I don't either I'm just saying how would it be attached to it if somebody's going to go through a title search they would pick it up then probably exale um but

that's a good point how do we know that the current owners are tied to this lean well they they've all signed off on it okay the signatures are all attached okay so that alone is telling me that they agreed to it soor kind of a followup question that everybody who is going to be impacted this has has signed okay because you have to put a legal description with it I would imagine right yeah so all that that answer that the questions yeah we have a motion in a second uh

we're ready for the vote all those in favor of approving please raise a hand and thank you thank you thank you and good luck hopefully 50 years from now your family's all his kids are all paying their fees okay thank you uh next

automotive repair shop at 1586 Royals Boro road map one Lot 56 com public comment will not be taken Mr duas if you'll step up uh and go ahead and introduce yourself as well as you're doing that and then we'll start with the town Planner on his notes go ahead and introduce yourself Justin duas 15 yeah please pull it close and talk louder Justin Dugas 1586 royalsborough Road durh okay Mr thear yes I will

summarize uh the notes that I provided to the planning board uh Mr Dugas is Seeking a conditional use approval for an automotive repair business at 1586 royalsborough Road uh he has been doing apparently uh part-time repairs in his garage and he is now uh proposing to expand the business uh build a new building and now he's moved beyond what can be done as a home occupation and he's now into the requirement for a conditional use permit as I've explained on past applications there's a two-stage process to this uh the first is the board looks at the conditional use criteria uh to see if the business use of the property meets the criteria there are some uh negative uh impacts that are intended to be controlled uh and avoided the first being Public Health impacts Traffic Safety impacts Public Safety environmental the scale and intensity of use being compatible with surrounding uses and finally uh concerns for noise

and hours of operation would be other issues to look at and the applicant has addressed those in his application uh there are also some positive requirements uh those being that the board has to find that the applicant has right title or interest the applicant has provided his copy of his deed and also that he has the the applicant has the technical and financial ability to do the project and meet all the requirements and any conditions that you put on it uh there are no standards specifically for automotive repair business in the Durham land use ordinance there are some uh peripheral noise limits as well as uh storage of hazardous containers that the applicant has uh pointed to in his application uh so if the board determines that the applicant has met his burden of proof uh you can approve the conditional use with or without conditions um and then the applicant would uh if he intends to uh build any

buildings or expand any parking Beyond 2500 uh Square fet then he would come back for the second stage of review which is the site plan where you would look at the detailed engineering uh survey design site plan that the applicant would prepare for that so this is the just a general review of those uh criteria that I mentioned and the packet and the website posting did include his application as well as some handdrawn uh site sketches uh I did include um some

photo uh renderings from uh Google maps that show the frontage what the property looks like from the front as well as an aerial photo uh which were in your draft uh findings that I prepared uh and add any uh based on your discussion here tonight you should discuss whether you see a need for a public hearing for this application uh and then you can make a decision on that as well as the conditional use

Mr Dugas if any comments you'd like to make sir just brief description of what you're doing there just automotive repair it's mainly larger projects that like restoration stuff uh light duty welding that's basically it okay and I read somewhere inside

always okay um board members comments questions and again conditional use we're just determining whether or not it's the uh a fit uh use of the property uh details on setbacks and all the other stuff would come uh because you are going to build a building correct an additional building so you'd have to come back for site plan approval for that building so what we're doing is we're looking at the use the use we're looking at the use right now the use mhm I'm here because I didn't realize I needed to be here and then I saw Allan plumber uh for a building per and I just

mentioned it to him he goes oh you need to talk that so here I am a multi-step process yeah that's fine I don't want any repercussions if you guys so you understand it's two steps so there'll be this and then you got to come if if you get conditional use approved you've got to come back with the so conditional use approval will allow me to be where I am now and then I have to come back for site plan if make yeah make changes parking the building that Stu which it sounds like you plan to do yes okay yes so should we go through the impacts or if we just yeah if there are any general questions if not we can go through the U dra the draft conditional use approval finding of facts and decisions yeah I'd recommend going through the individual ones and address them as they come up FS yes okay

let us do that then so um and you're familiar you got a copy of the findings of facts draft conditional use of what page I don't know in the what Mr did you did you send okay it it was posted on the website okay that's what I used okay so let's let's we'll read them we're going to read them anyway okay so no no offense to you but we're going to read them okay so I will start project named Dugas automotive repair 1586 rbor road map one Lot 56 uh list of submissions conditional use application for automotive repair business at 1586 royalsborough Road uh

section 7.4 conditional use review criteria so the first review criteria is before it issues a conditional use permit the planning board shall find is a matter of fact that the proposed use meets the following criteria so Public Health impacts the post the proposed use will not create create unsanitary or unhealthful unhealthful conditions by reason of seage disposal emissions to the air water or other aspects of its design or operations uh we have three proposed finding effects uh air emmissions will not be affected as all work will be which I believe these may be years things you wrote up yeah so your find your recommended findings are air air emissions uh there will be no bathroom at this time so I assume you're using whatever's in the house or Mother Nature how about if we use what's inside the house

um yes so does that make sense yeah okay water runoff this will be dressed through grass Crush Rock and bark mold before it enters the natural sale leaving my property trash will be disposed in my dumpster that I have on site so uh board members so do you you

said that you're looking in the future a lot of this was in the future you looked at expanding the garage mhm I guess we could address that at the time once that is presented I was wondering whether you were going to put a bathroom in the new garage or not no okay answer is that

waste um like oil and gas and things like that so I have currently I have I they use them at the fire department for FF or whatever faf whatever but they're just a roll caged pallet plastic with a steel row cage with a plastic container MH that's what I basically inside the garage like it's placed inside it's outside right now outside the garage is it like oh you said a pallet like is there any other like containment like not currently no okay so once that container is full how is it removed from the property to properly dispose of it so I put the I I hav't taken them down to my uncle's boat yard over boat they have a humongous waste Lo furnace and that's where I've been getting rid of it okay once the building is up I do plan to store it and have it's all going to be inside it's going to have proper containment but I plan to burn the waste oil that I gather for basically free free heat yeah you burn it not now but

yeah but you will I will yeah in a in a proper you know waste oil furnace okay so we would expect to see those details in the next submission okay clear uh well if it's will we or is it the building permit you know the building permit no this is part of the use for sure or or the next phase it's this is the review of this piece of it I just don't know I'm with you I don't know if it's we talk about it during this piece or we talk about it during the expansion piece well this to me this conditional use is for the existing building it's not for the future building future building I think we'd have to totally re no this is for the future building oh it is yeah this is so that he can he's got to get conditional use approval to get the building uh the site plan so they get a building permit so I think what we're saying is that you're going to have to show us on your um site plan how where

you plan to uh store the stuff okay so you know you're going to have a you know if you go to public works on one side they have a port in there you the building's got a full foot full length enclosed lean to that's 12 ft out and I'm going to do palletized shelving like the heavy duty shelving they do a Home Depot for storage okay it's going to be in there and then they make they make spill containments for those device those containments to s that that is I think one of the questions that we're asking is how are you going to handle spill containment and I don't plan to hold Lots when it's when it's I mean I don't really I don't really gather it's been six years I think I have 300 gallons yeah on hand there is a storage full so I'm getting ready to truck it out so I don't what's that there's a storage of hazardous material section in our ordinance y that maybe we'll want to look at when we get there but yeah it

talks about definitely what to place it on and size of the gallon tanks and yeah all that so you could make that a condition of approval that he provide details on waste storage and Disposal per section whatever the section number is yeah 5.26 I think 26 5.26 so do you

guys want to see do you want to see it's tough I guess because if they're inside a spill containment area is outside of the weather if it's outside if it's full of rain and leaves and trash and then it's at basically no good at that point you're basically overflowing containment if something were to happen but I thought would be to to task you that when you come in with your site plan that you show us that lean to or whatever it is that you're discussing correct and then that we make it a condition of the building permit that the code enforcement officer see when he sees your building actual building plans that you lay it out in that right well yes that but also refer to the SE in the ordinance and it tells you exactly what's required and maybe just speak to that in your additional write up what you're doing yeah the narrative okay like maybe not you don't really have to show on a drawing like that could be

hard to put right right I mean the spill containment that I plan to have is basic you you buy it it's it's basically a container that's reinforced for this to sit up and if you show that as a cut like whatever you're buying it just show that that's part of the record yeah yeah and then for the narrative what you have told us here probably works oh yeah yeah I mean you don't need to get you know long detail It's Des a picture and then what you just described part of The Narrative of the project okay so do you want me to have uh like print out proof that they exist I mean I pictures I mean that's it's all they're right on the internet I think yeah I think something that says this is what I'm play you know something very similar to this you know if if you know what you're going to buy that's obviously even better I do cuz Amazon will tell you the dimensions in the whole nine yards I've already looked at it yeah okay I have

that that helps was a a comment about making it a condition of improval and what was that again George uh we would you would you would look for details of the uh waste storage and dispos osal per section 5.26 of the land use ordinance 5.26 we would add that to the findings that will go on page uh 142 of

your packet as a that's not any of the okay yep so for a finding would we add under I guess either Public Health uh yeah air water where we add an e that says um something to the effect of um details of waste hazardous waste details will be provided that site plan okay that's letter

get it you're not taking notes no you wouldn't believe it but my pens on by my truck also it's on television so tomorrow with a cup of coffee will get coffee no you can you have to buy your own coffee you will get an official notice of decision with but it's also on you too I'm curious about letter C under findings water runoff um if we're not

really getting into the new building um because that's when we would kind of look at that too right yes the building design and stuff site plan yeah so maybe we either scrp that and wait or or say that this will be addressed in the site plan review or something like that no I think it's okay to noted that's his intent and that'll be part of the record oh okay okay okay I do have a question on the water runoff if you're running it off your building will run it off your building into a Swale that exists and then it runs into your neighbor's Pond yeah I mean it goes through a series of you know

ditches in the woods I guess you could call it uh a continuation of the Swale um it go it's quite a distance it's probably if you measured it out th000 ft 1500 ft before it you can annotate that on the site plan if you don't mind just you know but my bigger question maybe is is your neighbor okay with that oh yes do we need something in writing that's if your neighbor changes it this these guys get get tired of hearing in Indiana in Indiana if was if there was a flow that existed the neighbor sucked it down but if he changed the flow then the neighbor didn't have to suck it down so I just want to make sure that down the road uh you're covered or we're covered and water flowing off but I would say yes I mean we know

each other really well we're good friends our kids are friends I fix his all his stuff he gets out of prepar yeah I would hope I would hope I would hope so um my concern is always like when we talked to the folks that were here you know next Generation whatever right no I I understand totally I mean and even so if you were to go out in a rainstorm the swe it's not like it's Knee Deep and it's it's I mean you going to get your feet wet but it's that's about the essential because if you become a problem he'll call code enforcement and then code enforcements the fact that we approve it here doesn't necessarily mean it's good for if it's going to change it's going to change okay okay uh moving okay so with that

one finding and we'll add the 5.26 comment later on and vote on that uh are we good with uh Public Health impacts I'll make a motion to the applicant has satisfied a reasonable burden of proof of compliance with the Criterion for public health impacts which include the uh addition of e yep that we one of our findings was a

resolution the Hazardous Waste uh the and again you'll get the verbiage moved and seconded any further discussion second second oh would somebody like to Second it I'll second it okay I'm looking at Mark okay move now moved and seconded any additional comment if none please raise your hand to uh vote Yes 5 Z

unsafe vehicular or pedestrian traffic conditions when added to existing and foreseeable traffic in its vicinity three findings uh that you provided draft findings traffic will be less than 10 vehicles per day customers and deliveries dot entrance permit is not required entrance of driveway will be kept up and clear for maximum

been an entrance permit initial for your home when the home was built depends how long ago it was built 83 when was it 83 83 entrance permit is that uh this came up with another project um and I don't know what dot is going to consider this and you're not ask adding a lot sometimes when they use changes they they require a um um

entrance permit they they change the rules on site visit site distance and a whole bunch of other things because you've gone from a house to a business right it's I didn't read anything about that the threshold is 100 vehicle trips peak hour trips per day no peak hour

trips oh peak hour Sor yeah if you were to change this use you're about 10 a day remember the campound have to get they answer my question yeah and you are on a straight away yeah I mean you yeah um my follow on is do we need to annotate on the site plan uh site distance that could be on the site plan yep so you know what I'm talking about so when you pull up to pull out of your driveway what's the what's the cleared Vision to your right what's the cleared Vision to your left footage wise y don't need to know it tonight but put it on the yeah go out and and measure are you going to have somebody draw these site plan up for you yeah probably you might want to have them just annotate if you remember when we're talking about Bowie hill we talked about Sight Vision and so that's looks similar to this without without getting a laser pointer and pointing at the map here there is a small dip in the road where

you do if you were in a lower car you lose sight of you lose sight it depends on how many feet how many feet feet 1500 2,000 ft that's probably not a problem but have that guy just put it on the map y so that way and again it's on the state and then you're also covered in an accident yeah I don't I don't know if that's a service that Calin provides I feel do it on the highway yeah he might he might feel do it on the state highway yeah Wellsboro so my thought would be check with the Calvin do you know Calvin yeah ask Calvin uh and he might do it for you or he might hook you up with the guy on okay M okay um so any other

of um I D I guess is put uh adze did to the site plan okay you got that one motion you on d or through the whole thing we just went through all of it okay um yeah D for two number two traffic safety and pass yeah say something yeah I just the finding is that it needs a site plan distance and George has better language I think were there any other findings that we want to discuss or comments on traffic safety um on H regarding financial and Technical ability we're still up on traffic saf we have to vote on traffic I was joking we have not gone through all of them just who go for I'm good so I've lost track I need a motion I think I like that motion Mike's goingon to make oh jul applicant is satisfied a reasonable burden of proof of compliance with the Criterion for Traffic Safety impact with findings a through D yes with findings a through D the D is y side distance I will second that we have a motion in a second any further

discussion saying none please raise a hand to go uh Public Safety impacts the proposed use will not create Public Safety problems which would be substantially different from those created by existing uses in the neighborhood or require a substantially greater degree of Municipal service than existing uses in the neighborhood there are findings a there are several local businesses around me logging excavation campgrounds firewood processing farming horse boarding construction companies carpet cleaning Etc my business is a very low Prof business and I think you your drawing you drew you hand wrote where the horses were and wher everything go yeah kind of yeah from a I think a GSI map roughly okay um bi-weekly my dumpster gets emptied this is B bi-weekly my dumpster gets emptied and during the week I have less than 10 customers deliveries per day my project will not require a substantially greater degree of

Municipal Services than the surrounding businesses any other comments questions from uh board motion I'll make a motion that the applicant has satisfied a reasonable burden of proof of compliance with the Criterion for Public Safety impacts second please second okay um please raise your hand if you vote to approve 5 z uh next one is is number four environmental impacts the pro propos will not result in sedimentation erosion or have adverse effect on Water Supplies findings I do you do plan on removing trees for this project so I

good to know that um but I don't know if one that should be included like that can we let me finish reading sure yeah let me just go through because it the others may be the same question or there's also natural soil where the water gathers and leaves my property and enters my neighbor's Pond c i PL a control flow through crust Stone bark mulch grass on the whole project all D all my work will be conducted indoors all my Automotive fluids will be contained and stored properly and disposed of and the property will always be clean organized and wellmaintained to the Ed yeah so I don't know about a being in here like that um knowing that you're removing trees is important but I'm not sure if that's a finding per se okay unless we say something you know I plan on moving trees and replacing them somewhere else or something else I just wrote that obviously because sorry I thought um I just wrote that because I feel like the

Watershed from a roof is much more substantial than you know the trees rain hits the leaves and it kind of splashes and disperses but it's going to be more focused coming off a roof line oh I see so you're you're concerned about the sedation erosion well and I I figured it was just you know being honest and it's going to wash off that roof and it's going to make its own I hear what you're saying is it kind of wet back there right now no not at all oh you were saying walking through so the sale kind of goes like maybe 300 F feet from the road and it like goes back to the back and it

I can point to button so this my main lawn for the house is here and when it when we get a really substantial amount of rain cuz there's a hill here between me and the and this field I thought that was their house so anyway the the water runs

towards my patio here and but it's stops in the sale and it makes its way like this and it goes right over to that pond uh do we need a wetland delineation on this site if it's going to be an auto like if it's going to be a you know is a a handmade hand dug manmade pond a wetland it's not on your property is it yeah you're talking about your neighbor correct correct oh no no no no I'm just curious if any of that is a wetland and if you are your proposed use is an expanded auto garage everything is going to be indoors which is great I just

list of submissions that are required and they'll have to indicate whether they want a waiver of that requirement based on the lack of wet lands or that they need it so it is one of the requirements for site plan review okay m

you got yeah I've seen there's no there's not throw a copy of that page um and then you will show us you kind of show us on your hand sketch but you'll show us on your fancier sketch where that's going to go okay and how much I'm asking

uh how much you're going to tear up but my guess is your turn up was already potentially developed next to it's very minimal it basically let's see there's that's the garage that I'm in now and this is basically a cleared parking area which was where I used to split wood but this little this little null right

where I like it to be yeah okay well you'll s it the site site PL saying that and then like I said the picture of the G with there Wetlands or something there okay you know that can make a decision whether it's needed or not and you're going to have an engineer look at this and maybe draft up some sort of like sale or um like a French drain or something to to push the water where you want it to go yeah yeah I mean it's it's

it's going to be so the building is going to be kind of down in a hill cuz I where it's going is uphill so I was going to just you know flatten it out but the Gable end's going to be facing my existing dirt parking area so

it's going to shed off and then probably run into the parking area and then out the same way that it or you know flows currently I think going to the erosion you're concerned about removing trees which is commendable is how are you going to mitigate that so it comes off the off the roof you're going to have stone or you're going to have mulch something there to all that yeah so you know just that mitigates MH you know the finding is that there is a concern and we may make a condition that you you mitigate that and you've already discussed it I think so I don't know so in the back of the building too will also be higher it sounds funny but it'll be higher on the hill and I could do you know we could do gutters and push it all the rain water off cuz once it goes down that Hill there's a culvert through the woods and a stream runs that way too just kind of show it and you know yeah have the guy

just if if you're going to use gutters if you're going to have a down spout if you're going to have stone at the end of the you know just Stone some a little Stone path to the to the Natural sale or whatever okay is that okay with everybody that kind of eliminates the concern you brought up hold on to you may need it again never okay so um I

don't know that there was a new finding in that I don't think there was was uh so I will take a and I think but there is maybe a condition that you show how you're going to handle runoff from the roof as a condition right and that's why I was explaining I feel like landscaping and Crush Rock and mulch I plan to you know grass the area and however you got to do flow control um well natural is better than piping it somewhere yeah I don't my opinion for what it's worth yeah okay so do I have a motion with the findings a through e as pres as listed

that the applicant has satisfied a reasonable burden of proof of compliance with the Criterion for environmental impacts a second second it's been moved in second it any further discussion if not please raise a hand to approve

use the proposed use will be compatible with existing uses in the neighborhood with respect to physical size phys visual impact intensity of use and proximity to other structures findings uh presented by the applicant there are several local business anony logging excavation campgrounds fire processing farming horse boarding construction companies carpet cleaning Etc this project will be nonvisible to any of them as far as my neighbors go this project will be tucked back in the woods and I will be leaving enough vegetation with my vs which will leave a heavy wooded

surrounding when the project is completed I will then be doing landscaping to help as well okay so vegetate with what's the back ve typo maybe okay what page is that uh it's you're finding its scale of intensity of use number of seed you enough vegetation with my backs which will leave a heavily I think he meant on the back of the property yeah I think so how about okay okay so we got it all

right are there any other discussion from board members about scale intensity of use how tall is this garage expected to be I was going to plan to have it's not so I have drawings done now and the building is uh 52x 52 and then the lean two is 12T out towards my main lawn for my you know my private yard um but I don't know what without having all I have is drawings of Dimensions as a square footage but I don't have Heights I think the the ceilings are going to be 18 feet what's what's your main residence is that a twostory family two story house yes yeah and it's pretty much hidden by royalsborough like from yeah from Royals Boro I mean and then your other neighbors can they even see your house I mean this time of year yeah yeah yeah but in the summertime it's um it's pretty private other than the new trees I planted on the side of the road up there they're still in growth what are the there there's two or

three box like structures buildings whatever uh close to where you plan to do uh build this what are they in that left corner to yeah the left the my right of the that white thing is my boat okay yeah and then I have one of those zip up tent things I don't know I don't see it doesn't seem to me this is way back there um would we want to require buffering if needed I'm not saying it's needed but if it's needed would we want neighbors how how do we determine if mean the face of my personal garage currently is 200 ft from the road and that's going to be another 200 ft yeah I'm not worried about 1450 I mean that's my address I'm not worried about royalsborough I'm just wondering about like depending on how many trees you cut down yeah that's where scale comes into play like what is the scale of this thing compared to everything else around you will see right it' be good to know that right could you know that before

you come in with the height I think is the question sure the height of the building yeah site plan requires building elevations there we go yeah I just the only reason I'm still in uh drawing stages now is because I didn't know I had to do this okay so anyway um

before I finalized blueprints um I was working with the company for design layout for shop equipment okay um but I don't want to change the drawings once they're blueprints it's not cost effective so um but I can find that out I can call handc number I think yes and my if it's required at the next step then I don't think we even need need to make it a condition just you're going to have to do it anyway so you'll give us a site plan shows where it is distance to the property lines and then the height of the building and and we can kind of figure out from there what's is that good enough you know the next step okay any other comments about scale intensity of

motion I'll make a motion the applicant has satisfied a reasonable burden of proof of compliance with the Criterion for scale intensity of use second second been moved and seconded any further your hand if you vote to approve 5 Z next is noise and hours of

operation the pro proposed use will be compatible with existing uses in the neighborhood with respect to the generation of noise and hours of operation findings I am open Monday through Friday 8:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. that's not going to change oh he note that the applicant suar said no all work will be conducted indoor so noise will be very minimal do we have any other uh can I ask are you using um like compressors or any like sort of like often I mean I I

very rarely use hair unless I do tires I it's battery operated so okay or generators or anything like that not unless I lose power at my primary residence so other words often no no okay all right and all that equipment if I had it would be inside yeah and just to note we our ordinance does have limits on noise that escapes your property line so y that becomes the deciding factor so um okay

is there are there anything on noise and hours of the motion the applicant is satisfied a reasonable burden of proof of compliance with the Criterion for noise and hours of operation second I'll second moved and seconded any further discussion if you w vote to approve please raise your a hand 5

number seven right title or interest the applicant has sufficient right title or interest in the sight of the proposed use to be able to carry out the proposed use findings the applicant submitted a warranty D documenting ownership of the property any comments from planning board members on right title or interest sign that the applicant has satisfied a reasonable burden appr proof of compliance with the Criterion for right title our interest second second uh Mark gets a second this one

um if you vote to approve please raise a hand or there any further discussion seeing none raise a hand to vote actually I just I have a question we I'll vote let's vote I vote if you got to vote about the deed let's let's add yeah so is there a CMP Line running through is there sort of um

past my home okay it's just from the main road to the to the out the road side of my home oh just like a line just like your line a private line yeah private line no me no nothing yeah okay sorry okay let's go back to a vote raise your hand to vote to approve 5 z uh number eight financial and Technical ability the applicant has the financial on technical ability to meet the standards of this section and to comply with any conditions imposed by the planning board pursuant to subsection 7.5 findings estimated project cost 150,000 uh B is I went to school to learn auto mechanics on automobile and heavy trucks Co was an engineer in the oil field for 20 years as well and in my offtime running my little business fixing cars so I will I think uh Mr Len has a

would like to discuss this oh yeah what is 150 thank you for remembering that sorry that was what is 150k represent the building to be weather tyght on a foundation so no other site improvements no you talk about um this is just the building itself just the building itself now whenever someone's given us a financial estimate we've always had had an estimate for a financial institution that those monies are available okay you want to see my bank

think yeah what we got in the past is is some kind of statement from a bank that says you know Mr Dugas or whatever Dugas Auto has the financial you know is up to 200,000 which the 150 gets you the shell insulated what about lifts I mean I assume you've got like tools and all that stuff but are you you talked about putting a pit in are you gon to put a lift in or just lifts lifts no lifts lifts no pit no pit no pit so you going to use lifts no pit so yeah this financial total should include everything I think for the project right yes that's what I'm leing is a building ever done what's that is is a building ever done no do you ever have enough room I

no because we know what you're talking about you're you're going to come in with the site plan so I think with and you're going to want so if a bank or somebody could say uh Dugas Automotive has the capability for I don't know what a lift cost $200,000 building 160,000 whatever you

know you know what I'm saying pricing them out but yeah no and I plan to start with one and until you know the we I'm rolling in the air and things are turning I'm not going to out go broke watch when things not work okay right that is also a requirement for site plan review of financial capacity so so how do we word a motion uh that says applicant is satisfied um or will satisfy at site plan

application that's right estimated project cost $150,000 will be supported with a financial institutions letter I'm waiting for a not sure the 150 covers the full project costs well that's what he's saying so I don't to to what extent what what do you think does 160 I I don't know I'm not a a I got

estimates on material and I got estimates on having the site work and the tree work done and then the building material costs okay well that's on I was really planning on you know framing it myself and doing everything I can do you know to meet code and when I get stuck hire someone to come in and take over just to try to keep the budget at a minimal can we modify the motion to say

the applicant will provide um proof of compliance will provide um let term I'm trying to think of we'll provide uh Financial details at time of of site plan s yeah is that what you were saying proof and estimate yeah okay so I'll go with so we have a motion for to interpretation that's I'm going easy uh we have a motion do we have a second may I give the motion I haven't had a motion yet we okay did we would you

would you like to make a motion well I want included in the motion will expand item a to include a financial institutions letter of support and possibly the updated estimate right whatever the only reason I haven't really dug so far on the estimates CU I was working I'm working with a company to do a shop Flor layout where they have to they're going to come and take my drawings and see what they're they're going to put it in a PDF into a cad drawing and basically look at the square footage so that I can tentatively be like all right a lift can go here a lift can go there this can go here this is where your toolbox you should go just so like okay you know what you should take the doors out of the front of the building and move them to the side and then but if they're in a blue print then you're spending all this extra money to redraw things that could have just been drawn one time so I mean

as this is saying it's talking about an estimate right so once he gets that he can fine tune that figure right all right so yeah okay period just know I suggest uh offer a suggestion that would be to add a finding D which says total cost at will be submitted at with to be submitted at site plan review with financing

motion what judge recommended that the applicant has satisfied a reasonable burden of proof of compliance for a Criterion for financial and Technical ability where you go okay we have a motion did we get a second I'll second that we have a motion to Second uh the motion included finding d uh all those in favor please raise a hand 5

approval um which is the final one seven section 7.5 conditions of approval planning board approval conditions upon consideration the criteria listed in section subsection 7.4 the planning board May by majority vote attach such conditions in addition to those required by other provision of this ordinance as it finds necessary to ensure compliance with those criteria and all other applicable requirements of this ordinance violation of any of those conditions shall be a violation of this ordinance um I would like to uh I think we have at least one other um condition which is the detail of the details of waste handling per paragraph you've discussed uh I think four additional ones okay or three at Le uh four so the first one was the details on waste storage which you just mentioned okay uh and Disposal per section 5.26 to be on the site plan uh second one was adding the site distances to the site

plan gotcha uh and then adding drainage details to be provided at site plan review and then finally the total cost of the project with financing at site plan yeah okay so the conditions that U I now have are number one the project is to be constructed in accordance with the plans Maps diagrams specifications textual submissions testimony presented by the applicant and approved by the board number two details on hazardous way storage uh will uh will in accordance

with article 5.26 the land use ordinance will be provided uh at site plan approval and site distance will be uh on the site plan take distance on Route 136 details will be details will be provided details on drainage uh will be provided at site plan with the site plan and then number five is total cost uh estimate and uh proof of uh fiscal

capability will be provided with the site at the site plan filing it's close to what we want yes I've got a I've got a no on the end not a no just maybe an addition okay um um I'm not sure if it's worth mentioning or adding this as a an approval criteria but the amount of vehicles that could be stored outside of the building um we've approved something in the past that's become quite a eyesore that was probably overlooked in hindsight but I think that it's important to note you say 10 Vehicles

tops trying to make traveling in out is that what you mean oh you say traveling yeah yeah so my projects are fairly long so I never there's really usually never anything sitting there unless I've rolled it out to do another job and then put it back in and then you know what I mean like do a shuffle I really have customer stuff sitting around understood

um not yet but but you're expanding your business and yeah I hear what you're saying it's not quite labeled or or or or or written out in any of our ordinances here but I would like to put a restriction on the amount of vehicles that can be stored outside of your facility outside of outside of what I own no outside the building right outside of what out there for the to think about yes oh I got you

um it's vehicles that he's working on gotcha not's not he's personal yeah and here's here's the the problem Mr Nas is 20 years from now you move on this site is approved for automotive repair gotcha yeah or 10 years from now or 100 years from now only with a conditional use per yeah but this carries with the land go so the next guy may say you know you just have to drive by where you see what people do I think that's an excellent point I get what you say what's a good number five what can you live

I'll go down to tonight what's that five is five good with everybody well maybe maybe something you propose to think about for the next plan I mean the worst case scenario is I have someone coming to pick up and another customer dropping off so there's sometimes there's two or three only because one's getting an oil change and tire rotation so it's like it's in and out but it's five would be the way more than

plenty so little three I would can you live with three that's the decision that's again these are Vehicles stored on site correct for sure yeah we're not about your oil change it's the ones that are outside the building it's the is waiting for a transmission waiting for sitting there three is perfect periods of time okay then three is good for everybody else if you're comfortable with that three vehicles stored if there's four and something and you come up for an oil change what a stored mean are we talking 2 hours are we talking hours that makes sense though if I've got to wait a week for a trans theoretically the customer's car is getting kicked out until it's in because I'm not going to let it just take a you know space exactly so that's what quote unquote being stored outside three is plenty 100% okay I don't want am I going to be penalized you're asking me if I'm all right with three I mean what's the

chance that there is a fourth one but I think for the uh appli benefit we should Define stored I I think reality is if this the fourth one there it's not going to be an issue if there's 25 cars sitting out there in the future the code officer is going to notice and then they say wait a minute and and we have a record of what was approved okay thank you George yeah I just think there should should be some restriction I agree yeah yeah I thank you I I agree with it all too so three I don't want to junk car of my house no more than three vehicles will be stored overnight is that if we have to have a storage thing or just stored period I would say outside if he's going to put it something inside it's it's out exactly yeah so I mean okay for overnight or just store it outside store it outside I just say outside with no time restrictions I waited seven months for your part on yeah I mean if you have to

wait if there's three of them and you wait seven months for one of them you're right that's what I mean okay thank you charge them accordingly for storage I do I would I do jeez it hasn't happened very often George you got that so that would be the fifth or sixth yep so I think we move on before I get him down to two Okay so um I will make a motion uh on this one try to get it all included I started doing it so uh a I will make to apply the I make a motion that to apply the following conditions of approval to the the permit for conditional use number one is the project be constructed in accordance with the plans Maps diagrams specifications textual submissions and testimony presented by the applicant and approved by the board um number two is

details on the storage of hazardous waste uh in accordance with article 5.26 of the land use ordinance uh will be provided um three is the site distance on State Route 136 will be on the site plan at the Ed your driveway uh four is details on drainage will be provided at the site plan five is a total cost estimate uh with uh a proof of of

capacity for lack of better ter something from your bank okay uh or whatever or financial yeah Finance bring in a test of money leave it here uh six then is no more than three vehicles will be stored uh on outside on site we does that capture it okay I think that was a good catch second moved and seconded uh any further discussion seeing none please raise a hand to approve okay thank you we're one more step uh planning board decision uh I will make the motion by John tal the planning board grants conditional use approval of the automotive repair business at 1586 royalsborough road map one Lot 56 second moved and seconded further discussion seeing none please raise a hand to approve okay your step one is done get all that stuff on the site plan and come back in and see us and you'll receive all this in writing yes

so do I get in the email will tell me the decision for what I'm doing now do what you're doing now is that what you're asking permitting that'll be from Al Plum there's no I mean you you when you talk about doing to keep doing it part-time I think you're good but to build a new building you going to have you got to get a site plan approval no right but I mean I'm working out of my garage currently I think we're okay there long as you meet the liit of Home occupation you're F so the answer is yes you can continue doing what you're doing okay and do I have to fill something out for that yeah okay you're good thank you okay thank you Merry Christmas Merry Christmas have a good night uh is what time is it quter after 8 yeah I'm bad

fery Ridge I believe 816 that's you please come up two or three of you state your name and uh members for having us here tonight I'm Bill garish with Northeast civil Solutions okay Conor barassa with Northeast civil Solutions you guys your auto Scarboro yes DAV bracket uh 31 uh

oake and you're the owner the property owner okay so we will okay mrar yes uh there are two steps for this review the first is being the completeness review to determine that the applicants have submitted uh all the required information for uh preliminary plan uh as we discussed at the sketch plan review stage they're proposing seven lot subdivision the seventh lot being the common area uh they did have sketch plan as required and site a s sidewalk done in October uh I've included in the packet the checklist that I prepared based on review of the submissions and the only missing item seems to be the indication of historic or architectural resources being reviewed that can be a condition of preliminary approval which I've included in the draft um and then you could determine from this meeting whether to hold a public hearing uh and then move on to the general review of the application okay do you want to say

anything about the project before General we'd be happy to provide an overview of the project if you'd like or if you don't mind quickly we have a TV on it very fast okay six seven Lots whatever okay yeah um you the property is 64 Acres I know many of you were at the if not all of you were at the site walk so you get to see the site um the um seven Lots um proposed ranging from 6

to 12 acres each um the site is accessed by Oakville Lane which is kind of on the bottom of the sheet um coming up from new Brook Road it's an exist in somewhat narrow Gravel Road that's been there for several years um that's proposed to be improved um to meet the width requirements and so forth for Town standards um we'll talk about the I know we have a a waiver request so we can get into that um a little bit later um the internal subdivision Road would be built to the same standards um up through the subdivision we walk that whole area it kind of follows the ridge um falls off um in slope um to either

side um the there are some resources on the project site um you can see some Wetland areas um there's some stream segments on the right hand side you can see the 75 ft setback bubbles from those stream segments um there is a significant Vernal pool um on the North End of the site um all the surveys were done and and it was basically determined to be um significant so the 250 ft radius is shown around that um we do we are proposing a little bit of wetland fill um just on the last section of the road which would be a little less than 1,800 Square ft um there are some improvements within the Vernal pool setback area um less than much less than the 25% um we will be filing a permit by rule um in accordance with section 19 of

the PBR standards for that and um test pits have been done um to determine site suitability for septic systems um the soils in General on the site on the I guess the Northwest side of the road um those are all atoms type lomy sand type

soils if you're familiar with that um very free draining soils um typical of a I guess a river bank um area um when you get down to the lower part of the site between the proposed Road and and and new Burke Road that's where you start to get into your scandic soils and your Buxton soils um which are a little more poorly draining soils all the proposed houses and buildings and so forth are up in the good soils area um as well as the proposed Road um there is a a proposed fire Pond um in the common area lot as you can see um we haven't had a hydrogeologist look at that area yet but our our soil scientist when he was out there doing his test bits and we did have him do a a you know a deeper test pit at that location um just to check with soil type seasonal High groundwater and so forth um and it did look like a favorable area for the for the fire pond um and is that in the is that in the Sandy soils I mean is it going to hold

water that is hydrologic Group D type soils um based on the test pit so that's the poorly draining soils um the better draining soils are up on top of the Ridge and then going down towards the river um we I just fated one of my rules I'm not supposed to ask questions at this point but yeah oh that's fine and we may ultimately move it you know down a little bit closer to that that Wetland finger just to make sure it's going to work but we just wanted to get an idea um storm water runoff U more or

less goes in in to you know the area where all the houses are proposed on the left hand side of the road the northwest side um that all drains down the hill you can see a wetland that traverses that area between there and the river um and that all comes this way and ends up down in into the river basically everything on the other side of the road um drains down through the woods into those Wetland areas um there is a culbert Crossing on new Brook Road um as well as Oak fell Lane um those feed some other Wetlands on the other side of the road that ultimately go to dire Brook which you can kind of see in the very bottom left corner of the sheet um that conveys everything off to um the anders googin River um so not we tried to keep as much

you know space like I guess and undeveloped Woodland between any of the developed areas and those Wet Ones um in order to get it in um I think the net density would allow what was it called or 14 units in there at least over a dozen yeah a dozen so the applicant is certainly um taking a a reasonable approach here to to you know have bigger Lots more sparse development that that than would possibly be able to to happen on this lot um we did submit the shipo uh main

historic preservation commission um uh request and set the plans to them after we saw um George's comments on the on the project so that has been initiated and um I guess is this a good time to talk about the waiver requ W or you whole tight yeah hold tight so all right I said I'd be brief and I wasn't that brief that bad but um okay so members what I'd like to do this evening since we've got some stuff after this is I'd like to go through and determine whether or not the completeness review is done and we've done this with previous projects so get through completeness review uh and then have we started a discuss a brief discussion about the actual prelim plan um and then we need to decide after

completeness whether we want to do a have a public hearing and uh more I guess what I'm saying is more likely we probably not get the preliminary plan approval this evening so we'll get through completeness and uh move on to whether we want to do the U the public hearing or not we've done that in the last couple so let's start with U completeness and um Mr thear has done a uh review of the plan set for completeness and uh I believe that in

the only no I saw was historic and they've discussed that so members any comments on again this is completeness is something there is there a complete application form uh does it LO you know do they show water uh location this is not do we agree with the size of it or anything else just the fact that the documentation they're required to submit test bits all that is there I do I do

have a question about FEMA um just like so you provided this map here right um I just I I guess I wonder where the site is in relation to this I see um yeah maybe just next time and updated we'll show the site boundaries in general there's a pretty steep Bank a high Bank on the river so the the 100-year flood zone doesn't really come up onto the property very far so is it near that road is it near the access flood area comes in here like something like this um so you have a resource protection line um parallel to the river on the on the back side yep where he's pointing out there and it is well beyond

that resource protection Zone that the okay so maybe just for next time throw a image on that where the site is well is it that dotted line is actually showing that is the 200 resource not necessarily the 100-year flood is very close to the bank um you can see it's only 120 ft right or it's right here isn't that it yeah so it's even in more yeah it's even 250 this is more 100 it's it's yeah so the flood line is inside that the 250 it's well

within the 250 okay and this piece you're seeing is over here yeah that's down behind the you can see the building right there that would be that building yeah so it's so it comes like here yeah it's off the property okay so yeah if you just want to throw that on there yeah we'll put the boundary on there yep okay is thank you is there anything else we think is missing from their requirements to maintenance um agreements fall under this for the road maintenance for this for this portion that we're reviewing right now the road maintenance agreement and open space George oh HOA the H that would be the HOA document I think is that what you're saying who's going to maintain the open space yeah that would be in the HOA doc I don't think they're at this point no okay all right always ask the experts but that's something if you've never done you guys have done subdivisions but your HOA documents

going to have to who's going to maintain the road who's going to do all that other kind of stuff missing the historical document just um it could be noted as the as that that's needs to be submitted on the letter of completeness okay so it could be submitted we could approve completeness today yep and then requirement when they before we look at the before next not month if possible the uh historic letter so I know it's

technically technically it could be a you know it's that final approval that they're supposed to check with all the state agencies but it's important to know now if there are any historical resource uh and where you might get as archaeological along the river in terms of U Native American sites and stuff so

just do a check yeah it's more for the applicant to get it done earlier but I think what you're saying is we we can accept it next next round right they are they are required to indicate if they know of any on this property yes and then they have to check with the state main historic preservation commission we've sent that and they usually get back what three or four weeks well they've been pretty quick lately so we probably see it within the next week or two no response well our next meeting that we would take care of you we'd have an announcement is January 8th so that you know so some time to submit it to M thear before then if possible what's the farmlands and farm soils if 5 Acres or more so these aren't Farm add soils I checked them

and there's no part of this that exceeds 5 Acres of uh either Prime Farmland soil or uh Statewide significance yeah okay there are some small Pockets got it's not that easy is it uh I will take a motion to approve um the as this project as the completeness it's all moved second second moved and seconded all in favor of approving the completeness review please raise a hand 5- Z okay at this point uh I'd like to hold off on the waiver till next time for the storm water if if that would and we'll discuss that as part of your preliminary plan review uh if PL board members okay with that well can I ask one thing though of the applicant is this decision though going to play into like what we decide as far as yes waiver no waiver whether what you add to your next design I guess we were anticipating the possibility um of having the um complete say preliminary review this evening is that doable sorry just back up the the waiver

piece that's the only thing I'm focused on right now if if we was that going to play into your next step regardless of the preliminary if we say yes to your waiver or no to the waiver is that going to impact your next steps um certainly

the determination on the waiver would I think determine yeah how we would proceed yeah so I just wonder if because of that we should so is it on your preliminary plan now does it show any kind of drainage ponds because what you're asking for is is no drainage P you know storm water management you're not asking for a formal drainage Pond s correct system and that's not on your preliminary plan that's not on the preliminary plan and and I would note that um with the with the proposal of the sub subdivision which the applicant is is uh um PBG LLC um the applicant does intend to um

construct the roadway um infrastructure and drainage and so forth um the Lots will be conveyed off individually um and under title 38 420d with the storm water management law um impervious and Disturbed areas associated with construction or expansion of a single family detached residence on a part do not require review pursuant to this section so typically when we do subdivisions like this um if the applicant is going to build the road build all the houses they're going to sell all the houses off individually then we would be subject to review under the storm water law for the houses and the driveways and all that stuff but in a case like this where the lots are going to be conveyed off individually um the DP just looks at the road infrastructure with that we would be under an acre so we would be looking at a storm water permit by rule so under the D standards we would not have to provide storm water quality treatment or

runoff calculations or anything like this um and I would note that the the ordinance does have a provision for um allowing the board to provide or Grant this waiver for storm water um with a a site having less than 5% impervious which were about 2.4% and just given the verbiage in that ordinance provision I would um suggest that it was written for a project like this so okay thank you how's that sound um okay uh other

comments do we want to discuss the waiver work up approve the waiver this evening there's two waivers actually we also have a waiver on oakill Lane yes which is I understand what they're trying to do but my concern would be we would be

setting a precedent that is does not agree with our ordinance on Paving and what we how that would be indicated on future to the ordinance section that talks about I'm sorry can anybody yeah uh what are you asking the storm water the items that you just mention point to that yeah

storm water piece if you don't mind down no not at want to do waivers tonight I thought we could at least consider the storm water one but if you know if it is going to take a lot more time and there's another waiver it's on uh it's section

c22 on page 50 of the ordinance storm water management slowa right and it correct doesn't require storm water law permit at all just uh storm water PBR PBR okay a gravel road correct no this is nothing to do with oh yeah I guess actually yeah that's a good point if it becomes an asphalt road if we don't approve your second waiver then you're going to exceed the uh will you exceed the uh no the whether it's gravel or asphalt um the D would consider it impervious so it's the same okay yeah so we considered the impervious area everything from shoulder toosh shoulder um in your calculations yeah okay okay y okay and as the ordinance States um you know that will not involve grading which changes the drainage patterns um we've been very careful to make sure that the road ditches all you know daylight into the areas that it already drains to and and everything you know stays the same the Wetland at the end we we align the

culbert with the Wetland so all the drainage goes in that same area can you explain why gravel is considered impervious um it it's basically the definition of of it of um the main dp's chapter 500 um but you raise a good question because I was going to point that out in the next waiver request that a gravel um a type A gravel with 0 to 7% fines um

does take in some water so it would be less runoff than an actual paved road but um under D's chapter 500 they consider a packed um anything that's compacted earth when whether it's gravel or soil um impervious give a backup for that and okay I give another question I'm sorry if I'm jumping around no we've argued that as long as we're sticking rooftops as being impervious

how is that possible um well the rooftops themselves are impervious the water goes off the roof usually onto a a perious area but um the rooftops generally are considered they they were they're considered impervious under chapter 500 as well I mean I I assume it's because the rain hits I don't mean it be assaulting hits the roof and runs off if it hits the ground it hits not a road but if it hits the ground it may or may not run off depending upon type of ground and all that so I think that's what so the water that comes down and then starts flowing across the property is greater because of a roof unless it's a green roof but we won't go into that tonight okay so you've added up all those potential roofs and the road even though it's gravel and that is less than what' you say two it's 2 point something per yeah it ended up being 2.4% I think it was about 1.55 Acres our Orin says below 5% we can consider it um

yeah and the grading not much grading um minimal grading I mean we did want to get make sure that the ditches um we're deep enough along side of the road to drain the base material out um which is in your standards and and just good engineering practice um but in there are enough areas where the road is you know a couple feet above grade so things just drain off um where we parked for the site walk um anything on that side of the road kind of goes off to the right um you know before it gets to that existing house and then uh you know basically everything on on the other side the houses are proposed right on the ridge so everything will go that way from the houses back so can I ask a question why are you um requesting a waiver on the storm water is it just to save on the cost of the the plan itself yeah because it sounds like you guys are doing the you know the management of storm water we're trying to do the

management we just didn't want to have to go through the whole you know expense and of of preparing the formal plan um if it was re required by the D we would just submit it and we wouldn't ask for the labor okay other trees that entire way right yep so you R you reduce tree clearing because you're not digging a pond correct yeah I mean the the storm water infrastructure for ponds or soil filters or or level spread would would result in some more

have discussion next time um so you're certifying that it's well under the 5% your 2 point whatever it is five whatever it is okay it's 64 Acres so if we were at 5% we'd be over three acres and we'd be in the site location we're not even close to that so

the storm water law doesn't exist for Sight the site law so if you do trigger a site law permit you have to account for all the houses and individual Lots so you're not accounting for any houses in that 2% no you are no we are

got you misunderstood okay okay um I have no objection to the waver request in the store basically because it's under our requirements of 5% um so I guess what I need is a motion to approve or we're just we're still in the storm water waiver I make a motion to approve it second moved and seconded any further

discussion if you uh vote to approve please raise a hand um so this will go to peer review so you know if you're wrong okay let's go on to uh the road I think your second uh waiver find that one subdivision so this is for why is the waiver being requested why don't you explain why the waiver is being requested okay um well I mean obviously there's there's cost um associated with Paving and and maintaining asphalt pavement um I can tell you that um for a um a road

that will receive this type of very low use um a we did specify um that the ordinance requires a type A type base material um which um is and it's allowed to be either crushed or screened material um which is outlined in in appendix one um we've actually specified the crushed only material for the surface base um which would be crushed aggregate that would hold together very well um what we found

I guess based on experience um that a paved road with with such low usage um your does require a super paid mix and um a gravel road um you know with a good firm base um you know can be maintained annual grading compacting um you can basically restore it to to a new condition um asphalt pavement um especially a super pave mix which is very angular aggregate um natural sand

it's very low asphalt cont content it's designed for highways to prevent rotting from trucks and so forth um on a usage like this um it it doesn't actually doesn't receive enough traffic to Asphalt pavement is actually a flexible U material um it's designed to have some movement um it does oxidize very quickly if it's just let left to sit there with low low traffic use tends to get brittle um it tends to crack um you know more prematurely um it just if if we were asked to design a road with this level of use we would we would do something we would recommend something other than 3 and2 Ines of super pave um surface um I

understand it's cleaner um and you know it certainly won't erode um but we feel that a good crushed aggregate base course with crushed materials meaning all the dimensions um will be very serviceable for this type of use very good for the emergency vehicles and whatever traffic it receives and just you know reasonable to maintain over time so we just feel it's appropriate for for this type of drad I know it doesn't coincide with appendix one of your ordinance but we feel that it's it's um appropriate and it would be good engineering practice to to go with a a crushed aggregate surface on this Road

okay so I guess what I I I understand what you're saying and I when you talk about low usage to what extent would we use for a definition for low usage when we're looking at seven homes in there six six uh and if we have six homes in there

whenever we look at a subdivision we always look the heavier traffic that we're looking on something like that would be uh waste management and from everything that this board has been working with about Waste Management we would certainly like to see Waste Management being picked up at each individual homeowner's driveway and not certainly not on Route 9 it's been accumulating on certain roads in town and it's not safe but that's that would be one of my concerns you're going to have certainly you're going to have uh heavy equipment going in there and cement mixes are going to be going in there and whether you build that road to your standard at what point do you build it to your standard is it prior to all that all the the cement trucks going in or after I mean

they're going to have to have access they're going to have to have a good road to get up in there yeah absolutely and and if this if this area was in you know Clay type soils if there were poor soil conditions High groundwater table and things like that we would consider you know the the the need for the extra structure of the asphalt pavement um in this case we we went with the the same de depth so the three and a half inches of of asphalt we replace that with an additional 3 and 1/2 in of gravel um and then with a 6in um aggregate base course um given the subsoil conditions um we don't anticipate any any issues with stability here um if the roads graded properly and it it drains off to the side and and the base is drained by the ditches and so forth it should be able to support any vehicles that go on here so from a structural standpoint I would certainly think that if we're going to approve something like this it's

different than what our ordinance requires but in doing like I said if we approved it we certainly would have to have a documented maintenance agreement that's going to maintain it to the high standards that the applicant is recommending yeah gotcha um I guess I'll weigh in I am not in favor uh because um

the town I in my limited experience here the time the the town that the Public's Work Director have been very adamant about asphalting at a certain point in the thing so uh that's not been something that they've considered I mean we've they have historically talked about private roads the standards that private roads are built to there's a lot of people who would who would agree with you but uh we've never gotten there you know we've never changed that you know wave that standard change that standard um they and understand cost in in the whole nine yards um there are you know if there's a hill it does potentially wash out with gravel um and I would say that there is a I hear what you're saying but we have you ried upon somebody to actually maintain the road mhm um and you know I guess you have to do the same with asphalt but it's going to last longer so I am not in favor of changing this just because historically the town

has been pretty adamant about this is the standard we've made everybody who's come in here uh we held up a project because they didn't ask all it fast enough granted you know with 13 lot with 13 Lots is not a heck whole heck of a lot more than seven in terms of traffic and other things so that's my feeling on that but uh I other comments yeah is this going to be ploud in the winter right and so that's going to I had a d a gravel driveway and now it's not it's I don't even know what it is it's like sand like all the gravel's gone so unless like you're going to maintain that bring it all back like every year it could be a mess right and just water collects on it there's bumps everywhere so yeah I am not I'm I mean we we have durm has seen there have been some subdivisions where the base hasn't held up and at that particular one that

I'm thinking of was a town approved road which we do not approve Town doesn't approve subdivision roads at this point unless it was put on the warrant to look at it again but I've seen where the base has deteriorated and therefore the asphalt deteriorates and then you get back to having to maintain it it's all about maintenance and doing building the base properly if the base isn't good it doesn't matter whether it's gravel or asphalt if it isn't maintained they won't stand up and I you know that I'm I'm very weary about approving this waiver and the president that it would set what happens to the next subdivision that comes along and I feel that we we' be backing ourselves backing the town into a corner that I don't want to be in I and I would agree cuz somebody comes in with a 13 lot which we get a lot of 13 lot subdivisions uh says well that's not a lot lot of traffic and I respect your

opinion you know in terms of you know professionalism don't take that the wrong way so other um seeing none I will make a motion I will make a motion that we just we not approve this waiver I'll second it moved and second it further discussion

this please raise a hand vote to approve it 41 sorry that my guys okay sorry but not in uh there's a long history of of roads in uh so from what I heard earlier we have to pay from the third house out that is um the waivers uh what I'd like to do next I don't think we're going to get to your approval Let Me Maybe resolve this uh do we want to do a public hearing on this yes and I tend to agree we've done public hearings on all the others so I would agree that we probably need to do a a public hearing on this um and so we will begin our next meeting if on the 8th of January 8th I believe yes that's the Wednesday Wednesday the 8th of January um begin your part of it with a public hearing so that fits our timeline requirements correct I believe it does George we have any issues with timelines should be all right okay uh and then we'll do the public you saw today with Boe Hill what we did there so um I guess

what I'd like to do is just we're we're going to have a public hearing are there any comments and we've already gotten some and your introduction was worthwhile that we want these guys to take back and think about before the 8th of

this during the first time you guys came through here I'm totally not a fan of right away to the access to lot six I guess it is um I think there are ways you could be a little more creative about making sure that lot five gets 300 feet of Frontage

and to get that driveway out of a uh RightWay situation okay so you're saying that driveway goes through five right is that the issue yeah yeah like it it's almost like they'll need an easement through five to get totally need an easement and and I just think that there are I don't I don't particularly like being forced into a plan I think there are other ways that you can look at that to be creative as you mentioned earlier um to make that a happier situation and yeah and I can tell can I

explain I guess what why it is why it is um and this plan doesn't show the grading but um there are some you start to get into the steep slopes um so you can see the um it's kind of hard to see on that there is a plan if you keep going George there is a plan that would go shows a blow up right with grading right yeah y okay so the the the steep slopes area starts right at the end of the road Road and if you remember if you go to the left there was a big six stem oak tree that's right there yeah um so

we we were up there and and and we did have the Hammerhead turn around in the other direction which did allow us to um I guess a little more favorably push that driveway down um but we did want to keep that tree um we did want to cross that Wetland at the narrowest possible place we could and then off the end of the road and everywhere else and that so so that's the reason the Hammerhead got switched up to the other direction so it doesn't come down towards the Wetland and and towards the Steep area and then as soon as you get off the end of the road it just starts to drop so we did you know we looked at every way around trying to get a driveway up there um if we extend the road out um with a maximum 8% slope um we just we never catch grade again so it just we we

really had to end the road there where it's where it's relatively flat and then uh just didn't have anywhere else to put the driveway with the Wetland there and and the Hammerhead so an easement like that is is fairly common um I know it's atypical but uh you know there are plenty of subdivisions that have those and again that lot um up above is which

one that one's quite a few Acres so 11 almost 12 yeah so I mean it's and then you're asking us to um approve some disturbance of wetlands right there so uh assuming it's planned assuming it's plan North if you moved the end of the road

east and flip the Hammerhead and then start the driveway where the existing Hammerhead is does that help that situation at all because you're you're still within a low sloped area if you pull that driveway to where the existing Hammerhead is and flipped the whole thing I don't know I just I would like to see some other options so that there's not so much area in a in a in a RightWay situation okay that's just my comment that's can I ask you Bri what the issue your issue is is you there's so much of this in this other law yeah this is right I mean I think if you hold this out so so this guy has 371

uh Road feet of Road frage he only needs 300 right um I think yeah so get the Hammerhead out over here yeah pull pull this out flip it and then move the driveway out there what still within you're still not messing around with the the the the slope or the grade issue that that that's there you're you just came off the off the background off the what off the background um yeah I mean we'd be happy to bring the driveway right off the yeah yeah yeah yeah right if you look at your go go back to that other um site plan where it has you have the grading you right there it's not that steep off the off the top of right there yeah exactly just got that okay that's that's certainly re a reasonable request less impact on the Vernal pool habitat too where do you put the hammer the the background you to have the background their driveway comes off it there but then if you and then if you just flip the Hammerhead so you

still have the Hammerhead but it's on the um I think you need to do that southide just have the driveway come right off the back well then they' have the turn around in your driveway to me that's not a true Hammerhead safety wise we get ask the chief well the the the large Vehicles be able to go here back in just like it does now but I think what um Brian is asking can because I think originally didn't you have the the hmer head pointing opposite yeah we had the Hammerhead pointing but the road was up a little further um where the where the grades are flatter and we brought the road down a little bit just to get around that

look at that this does not this keeps the tree as it is what I'm saying yeah just a suggestion no that that's good I know a lot of ordinances do on a on a small subdivision with a small number of lot actually allow the last driveway to be the the Hammerhead so that would be we could ask the chief I yeah you'd still build the Hammerhead to the same standards and and there are some it sounds like it's going to get paved so then you'd have a gravel driveway just coming off the end of that that certainly works I would ask the chief I guess just a general comment this is going to come out totally the wrong way but what we're asking to do why do we care what the driveway impact is on lot five to me that's a does a buyer accept that I mean it's got two buyers is the buyer a lot five and the buyer of a lot six okay with it um is just my thought if if you're willing to take a look at that but just

my personal opinion is I if that's buy or beware you've got a you got an EAS going through your yard the other options the other option come right off the corner of it like instead cuz one of the issues they they don't encourage drivway off the end because then you plow and you pile all the snow right here not as much so here but if you came off at that corner right there that shortens it well I think what I would ask is that you take a look at you know you you said you're open to doing that and maybe flipping the Hammerhead cuz if we we just would have if the fire chief is okay with using it as a driveway um we haven't done that again in the past but you know is it hard to just turn it 180 degrees and and have a

dedicated um hammerhead I totally hear what you're saying John I would just rather have a less amount of impact on my five property than than yeah I he what you're saying I just see it as a as sort of as a buyer beware it's not an after fact after the fact thing but cuz you guys got to sell it you know and if if you think you can sell it that way um I'm

okay with that too so uh but please take a look at it and those the kinds of things we'll have you know next next discussion anything else we'd like to send them home with um please get with the fire chief get with the uh Public Works guy um about you know the the connection

it's a state road you'll need an M do cuz you are increasing traffic on I think I think you'll need an M do the driveway driveway per thank you a different one um anything else that and then get all get started on all of the the state approvals you if you haven't already I think you have for the for the checklist looking to my right any other comments for these guys before they just updating the um FEA very small

cost estimates either doesn't need correct yeah we haven't provided those as to the last subdivision it sucks for both of us to have we need an extension because we didn't get this we didn't submit it in time we please just get them submitted get you know beat on the state agency or FEMA or whoever you need to beat on Town Town folks to to get you what you need yep absolutely going going gone so we'll start you all next time with a public hearing okay thank you Merry Christmas

after 9: so I'd kind of like to wrap this about 9:30 if we could um so we're going to meet next week J December 11th I guess it is MH so George kind of covered the the land use ordinance piece of this but if I could add just a little bit more the um select board is this

contract Z zoning so on the 11th the attorney will come and present us a little here's what contract zoning is and that's at least new to I mean I maybe know it under other names but um so she will kind of say this is what contract zoning is this is why we want to do it this is be this particular land use article to create contract zoning is being driven and managed by the select board so they're going to have the attorney write the uh Lang anguage for it and she will present it to them at the end of December if I'm not and George is is assisting but by the end of December she will provide it to the select board they will our role in it

will be they will present us the what they want to be reviewed at the public hearing so we're not going to help write that uh particular article if that makes sense I mean certainly our comments will be doing but and George I don't know if they plan to have a public information meeting as a select board or how they're going to do that but so our role in contract zoning is is pretty limited Fair statement I mean you've been involved with with Jerry the select board so uh that that piece of it so they've got the same deadline they got to get it and we will hold a public hearing I think or unless they they also can hold public hearing if they so desire um and I strongly recommend that they get as much information out about that as possible um make a plug for those watching at home that listen in on December 11th and learn about contract zoning the other piece to battery storage is developing the standards

similar to what we did and that's on us uh similar to what we did for solar so you know and a lot of that George has come up with a draft on it we would beat through that bush with solar in terms of setbacks and and some of the other stuff we've talked about how battery storage is different the directive from the select board is tasking us to come up with this and to have it ready to go April 5th I think whatever that town meeting is so you back off of that um I think it's the fifth or sixth of of March through I'm sorry early March till the end of March 7 days before the meeting we have to have a public hearing on it I would like to make sure that we have a public information meeting and Brian you spoke very well at the U special town meeting that we get that information out to what is best what are the safety standards that we are recommending if they approve the the uh the standards so the

standards would go with contract zoning and the contract zoning would not be handled L by us so if somebody came in with a project for best um they would go through the uh select board so it would not start with us and our input to that I think depending upon a sight unseen what whatever the attorney writes up in her thing and certainly a question I have for next week is what will be the role of the planning board in approval of projects um but I think the final approval well the select board will come up with a recommended approval the final approval by project will be the town uh

meeting so it won't be a planning board final approval won't be a select board final approval if it's being written as I think it's going to be each individual project will be taken to the select board with for final excuse me the town meeting for final approval I keep looking at George but I think he's had some more discussion uh I think there is a project in the works which is one reason we're driving they're driving towards an April uh meeting um and so

the standards that we develop would hopefully guide the the contract zoning to say okay if you're going to approve this these are the things that we want minimals we want to see so it's it sounds to me you're talking contract zoning we're going to submit individual articles every time something like that comes up I don't know how they're going to do it yeah I mean it's I don't know enough about it so didn't we just file a moratorium on this yes then why why is there an application there is no application there is no application I think they have someone interested sure and that's fine and so we did the moratorium to develop the standards develop in contract zoning and other things um and I may have misspoken but I think there's probably a group there is a always a reason the Need for Speed absolutely there's people that want to do this but there's no like we're in the moratorium we you know there's a reason

we did that to be able to have some time to develop standards or whatever what is contract zoning so explation hopefully next Wednesday we can dive into it deeper with the town attorney but basically this has been done in Maine for 30 years started with big projects in Portland and so the state legislature wanted to give local municipalities more authority to to do a special Zone other towns use other mechanisms in Falmouth we did special zoning districts which come as an amendment to the ordinance uh uh Ocean View retirement community that wasn't in the ordinance but they created a special zoning district for that contract zoning is along those same lines so basically what you do is you you know generally a zoning District you list all the permitted uses and you know you have your commercial areas you have your industrial areas you have residential are areas Farm areas well here what you

do is you take one project and you create a special zoning District or a contract Zone and within that you limit what can happen there to almost like a site plan so then that becomes the Zoning for that property and it's a contract between the town and the uh developer and property owner that says this property is going to have this use and that's all it's allowed unless you come back to town meeting and change that and you can negotiate so you can't normally negotiate on a on a site plan to the level that you can with a contract zone so you can negotiate off-site improvements you can negotiate U uh development of a water system for example you like that they pay for that they would pay for that yeah you negotiate all that so so I don't understand if we are tasked to build standards right why are we jumping contract zoning if we can put in the standards everything you just mentioned well you don't this is we've had this

discussion uh with the town attorney and the and the select board okay so my position is the uh think about the solar Farms that we went through all of those detailed discussions of safety and this is even bigger safety issue you don't want to be negotiating safety that should be set standards but what you can negotiate is offsite Road Improvement right but you can also include that in your standards of any sort of project you can do a a you know um what do we call these um environmental benefit or a town benefit or anything not exactly not exactly you cannot uh put into an ordinance uh negotiated benefits that that doesn't work you you can have set standards that apply like yeah standard sorry it's not a standard but it's like an additional item that the way I think the simplest way to look at this is that right now you can put solar Farms anywhere in town right y other than resource protection so anywhere in town there

could be a solar farm and this Conservation Commission was saying well do we want these things anywhere in town right so you were going to try to create a plan for the town that said solar Farms will only be allowed in these areas and you'd Zone those areas for solar Farms or camping solar farms in those areas what this does is boils that process down to site specific considerations right but who who's deciding like it's almost like why are we why are we doing this ahead of the St I don't understand so so what the standards will do is it will say wherever you're going to do these here here's how you have to build it make sure all of these safety protections are part of it then the the contract zoning get you an extra layer of control contr to say look even if it's safe you can't do one of these unless it goes to town meeting that's what contract only does For You especially we're talking Mega

projects okay so you're you're kind of just throwing another layer of approval exactly definely you're saying they have standards but they're going to have to go to town meeting to get exactly for an industrial scale battery Energy System they'd have to go to town meeting to get like any any size above whatever we decided 20 kilow well you set you said what the level is or we'll set that in St the town of green is going ballistic over a 600 acre solar farm I got turned down so this would be that they would have to go to town meeting to get that approved and I'm I'm proposing that you include industrial scale solar farms and Battery but that would be set in the standards no that would be in the contract zoning so those types of projects would only be allowed by contract zoning no I know I'm sorry who's setting the contract zoning specs who's setting how big the select board well that they would just have if it

goes over a certain level right who set who's setting that level the the the ordinance will set that in the contract zoning so who's doing the contract zoning the town attorney this is what you were just talking about a select yeah with the select board so that's what they're okay yeah so they're deciding which so any so you could say in the ordinance anything over a home residential battery energy storage system system or a business individual business anything beyond that has to go to a town meeting vote for a contract Zone if it's approved as a contract Zone then you apply all of those standards that we're going to be talking about to that project for safety purposes if it doesn't get through the contract Zone it doesn't go anywhere but what if it's less than that if it's less than that then they just have to meet the safety standards but we're probably talking about small scale like George at

homes or or like the business guy that was in here to yeah so I guess the point is we we can learn more next week next week and those those are good questions to ask I mean I think uh I certainly don't know a lot about it so uh the town attorney's coming in to tell us that tell us the relationship between that and the standards um but the actual verbiage of

the contract zoning just you know for our that is the select board the attorney's going to write it up with with through with George the select board is going to review it say this is what we want they will write it up as an article and send it to us but don't you think they go together yes yes well then why are they in separate because again the standards will apply to any project that gets approved to make sure it's going to be safe the Z the contract zoning will decide where in town but the where and the safety that is what I was thinking the standards were also like we I was hoping we could bring in like a consultant to help us here we don't have any money for consultant yeah I don't think it's not a bad and the the Conservation Commission is working on that I mean they they would like to work on it at least I guess same with solar where should we do that so I guess it George correct me if I'm wrong just tell

us interpretation of what's going to happen is I want to put in a battery store big industrial whatever it is 15 Acres in Goram whatever it is in rbur I come to the town of Durham I go to the town manager select board and say I want to do this this is where I want to do this at pick a spot um and the select board

will negotiate with them and yes that's where it's going to go oh by the way if we approve it these are the standards that you're going to have to meet but the select board will review the site the say that's on a bad Road you're going to have to improve that road you're going to have to build a fire Pond I'm just pulling stuff out so they're going to do what planning board does for all the other projects with they can go far beyond what the planning board can do yeah yeah for sure they they have what I'm that like they are

not it's just it's it's this is crazy to me well it's a it's a powerful land use control tool that would be greatly beneficial to the town it's a little bit beyond what you're used to but many many communities are using it are we going to have anything to review before next Wednesday uh I did post on the website today uh the agenda for this meeting and included a general discussion description of contract zoning okay and the attorney's going to lead that correct y she'll be here to do that but we should be able to and ought to get into the standards in George Z I have

draft is the draft is on there with so that's the stuff that we did with solar uh Heights um setback security decommissioning costs all those kinds of things uh that's that is in our Bayway to get to get done and so George is working on that I don't think there's input from the attorney on that so um uh and and we just want I mean as John said the select board is going to be taking the lead on the contract zoning work the town attorney we want to keep you in the loop that's why we're having that's why we're having that meeting next week so that you will understand it are they not bringing in a consultant or does this new lawyer have experience working this new lawyer has experience with it with batteries with contracts only not with batteries but they're not going but they're going to say I'm just trying to think of how to do this uh I say this who's if I come in and I want to put it on you know 636 stack Pole because you

know I'm close to the power line um who's how will they determine the the will they go and say okay we take it to the town the town approves doing because it when it goes to the town it should also have gone through the the the standards corre correct me if I'm wrong so if if I have that my project no it'll have to meet the standards wherever it goes okay so that the safety standards um will come decommission will come I guess after if they say just because they approved a site if they won't meet the the standards they don't bu a to that's correct then you would have the standard site plan review process after the contract zoning is in effect and if they don't meet the standards or the site plan review requirements then you don't approve it don't you think it should be the other way around no but this is just to approve the definition of what contract zoning is right is that I understand well that would be part doing it it's

wait what what do you mean like what we don't have contract zoning now this is just to Define what contract zoning is and and what I wish it will include is where contract Zing could happen because what I'm hearing is it could happen throughout the entire town but it would have to go to a town meeting vote before it can happen can you imagine can we just pretend we're at a town meeting right now someone gets up there and says okay this person wants this kind of project on this property we're going to get like it's going to be like what who where well they'll have to make a case for it certainly slows down development well of industrial scale Mega projects yes it does slow it down okay all right right now just to say this is a definition because contract zoning is not going to just apply to B Bess it's going to apply

to that's not correct that's not correct it's not this is going to be written to say battery energy storage systems of a certain magnitude and solar energy Farms of a certain magnitude can only be done by contract zoning I think that's a mistake that's a huge mistake don't what's coming next time yeah I would agree if if somebody wants to put in a u a tanning facility or space launch facility and it you know it's a good deal for the the town it should be open to you know other projects you can you

can in the can contract Z but I don't think it should be limited to just these things well here's Here's my thought as we're kind of running out of town these are all good discussions we'll get to do it again on the 11 and the attorney can can make you know she and I'm not saying it's back she's kind of LED this with the select board those are the kind of comments we can send to the select board on the contract zoning piece um our what

I what we need to focus on is take a look at what George provided for standards and let's talk about how to get there because RP is done you know our changes to that that's set the the selectman just needs to send that back to us in a forum that we can do a public hearing on but the let's take a look at the battery St the standards are we happy what do we want to change we're not going to get to to where they should go and we're not we're not going to do that I don't think in the next time but the select board should be saying you know as a group we're not going to approve it um in I don't know next to the elementary school you know that's you know we're going to these are the areas and they can do that that's the nice thing about contract Z they can say no we don't want you to put it in that location can I say two things sorry two really quick things one is I do know that not me included there are

some very smart people in this town that know about this type of stuff and if we can't hire a consultant if we could reach out to others and say hey we're starting to do this we need help because honestly the select board doesn't know anything about this like they're very smart people but like bad they don't know best and I don't think the lawyer knows best they know contract zoning but how are you how are we going to be able to develop this contract zoning on this type of use I I don't think the select board is is keep them separate contract zoning is one thing best standard I don't think they need I know but but how are they going to know what size can go

where that's going to have to they'll have to make a case to the town meeting that it's okay right but how are they going to do that if they don't know about it I mean zoning is a key component of this zoning yes so I what I'm just recommending is that there are a lot of good people that maybe I've already reached out to onb I've already reach okay well then let's hold that kind of discussion we can have that I just have one more thing though I mean is the idea to approve contract zoning ahead of or for the April meeting yes the select board I believe is on a Glide path to have contract zoning and the standards be approved on April 5th if possible if possible but they would be together if we can't make that then they won't they won't do theirs either right they won't approve contract zoning ahead of Standards being developed they'll be done they'll be done signal St I think so okay so Wednesday night's meeting is

just for contract zoning and I would like to go into the standards both both it is both yes for we will get an introduction to contract zoning and then we'll stop I mean we we don't you know we'll make our comments to her quickly but then we need the meat of that meeting should be about the standards because we've got to get into that TimeWise we website and yes so look at what George has provided think about what we've the things we've done in solar recognizing there are things about Fest that are different has much changed from the last time you sent us your comments anything changed um I've updated some of the standards but it's pretty much and again it's an extension of what we did on solar energy Farms so yeah let's a lot of the same principles apply yeah so i' uh that's what I'd like to get into for me the contract zoning is tell us what contract zoning is what you think our role will

be once it's approved but after that getting it approved at the town meeting getting written up is on the select Bo okay so move Mo does the meeting start at 630 630 here at the fire station okay so having said that and that's not going to be a you know public input kind of meeting is going to just you know I would recommend strongly people watching Brian you had two questions um I haven't seen a an update

from Alan from our CEO regarding um building permits in a while can't remember if I've seen novembers or not yeah he did just send them out and they've had usually it's with our package I just haven't seen it yeah I could have updated you uh I think it you've you're up to 16 new single family home this year in about a half a dozen accessory apartments no dup okay so he's he has update usually he sends a copy that I'll forward to you but I haven't seen it for November but it's

usually he did send it already I think so yeah because it's usually like next week it's it's not like right on the first but as soon as we get it we and George if you've got it please forward it to everybody yeah cuz it was six last time I saw that report and he didn't break out or maybe he did break out adus

okay yeah the other one um we all received an email from maybe it was Joe Roy about Granite Farm are we supposed to be doing anything on that no code officer is investigating it okay yeah so sort of in my court he sent me an email uh Steve R Pion who lives he sent it to the entire plan oh did he and to the select board yeah so yeah that's why I'm mentioning it just it came to us all I wasn't sure if supposed to act on that I think the answer is going to be that's a very complicated subject you really should talk to an attorney about how to change Private Road designations so in the process we're going that's from the town from George Town manager and somebody else probably sent me that same thing so maybe I'm mistaken I thought this was somebody was well there's two separate issues one is the Gravel Pit yeah and the other is the uh Road status you're talking about the road status I haven't seen anything on

it when did the Gravel Pit come out yeah he was complaining about the guy running a gravel pit a lot of traffic same guy truck traff same guy same guy well he's welcome to CMP power line Ian you know this is the home on sitting on his PCH and he's in a horrible spot because they go he's on the road they go past him and the the power line is right there so it is they are getting close to being finished I think the problem was the traffic started before they came in for the power lines it's not the power line traffic that he's complaining about no there's traffic coming from the gravel bit but this was this is an approved subdivision yes the one that we did turned into a gravel pit no not exactly I think there's a place where Yeah the code officer is trying to find out exactly what's going on I've not SE yeah I'm sorry I haven't seen that I've seen the one about he had a question about how do I convert how do we my want

to create an association and I want to change the status of this road that he's on granite Hill Road oh I didn't see I not seen the Gravel Pit piece of it Cory piece this was a subdivision that we approved a while back and it was really weird situation because he crossed CMP all the land was beyond CMP and then George you remember this and Juliet as well I believe the developer passed away that's gred Hill yeah oh that one yeah

yeah really weird setup but but then somebody else took it over some this is the Halloween subdivision yeah that that's a whole discussion they they it continues to haunt us don't drive up that road in Lexus IS all I'll say about it but have any houses been built on that his goes back to 99 or something like that one House was built yeah there's have been some but not a lot there's so all right that's good I'm not I will try and find the the Gravel Pit one I'll move to a Jour I'll second moved in second all in favor please raise a hand done thank you turn your microphones

don't I'm not sure what what can be done for I mean see quite truly CMP in in that area in my area is almost f