TranscriptDecember 15, 2020 ~ CIP Meeting

We were scheduled to start at six, but uh we'll try to make this a brief meeting. So, um I'll I'll just start with a roll call for the record. Uh let's see. Uh Joe. Yeah. Joe Tom 118 Drive. Okay. And Michelle. Drive. Okay. And I am Paul first. And those are the only members that we have present this evening.

We do have a quorum. And we are also joined by administrator and Mark Faren. Okay. So the next item on it pledge. We'll just go ahead and uh take care. United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Okay. Thank you everyone. are meeting minutes. So, uh, Ruth, I know you don't have minutes ready for us, but I just wanted to kind of give the committee an update here. Yep. Um, so I have Kathy on trying to do the minutes.

Okay, very good. And these are going to be very brief minutes. Uh, the legal record for the meeting in accordance with FOA is the recording. And speaking of which, Ruth, we are being recorded, correct? Yep, I am recording.

Excellent. Thank you. So that is the legal record of the of the uh of the meetings of the meeting and those are should be available those uh recordings of the meetings on town hall streams and can be accessed via the town website.

Yeah, we are working um we still are doing just very abbreviated minutes. There'll be a record of any decisions. There'll probably be a paragraph. That's about it. Um, and that was for November 9th, November 23rd, December 1st, and tonight.

Oh, hold on a second. Michelle, I accidentally made you host. Can you Can you give me host back? Sorry. Um, maybe I was going to have fun with it because I'm I'm co- co-host. Your co-host. see anything. So, go over my name.

My name and where it says more. Yeah. Sorry about that. Sorry about that. I can try to be the host. Okay. if everyone could mute their microphone, that would be a great place to start. I I know we're still getting some feedback this evening. Uh we talked about just briefly here at the outset, Mark and Ruth and I talked about um that we had received an email from Brian Pike, who is one of the other committee members. And Brian sent a very nice email and said that uh unfortunately he's had a a very big project that he's in charge of at work this CIP season and they're doing a roll out of the project. I guess they're trying to roll it out this month or uh here very shortly. And so he's been unable to attend and it it sounds like it's been all consuming. So um you know

he basically uh said that he would like he he values the work of the committee. He thinks that the charge is important. What the committee is doing is important and he values the work. He'd like to continue on next year but uh he senses regrets that he hasn't been able to attend and that he will not be able to attend the rest of this season. So, uh, he is still on the committee and, uh, we hope that, uh, that he'll be with us next year.

All right. Um, let's see. I was hoping to kick things off tonight. Of course, at our last meeting, we had the department heads and we posed our questions to the department heads and received their feedback uh on our questions and went over the applications with them. And we're getting to the point uh tonight of I guess the you know the hope tonight is that we resolve any outstanding questions with regard to applications so that we can move forward with scoring. One of the items that in my mind is still a significant item and it's still, you know, it's in flux just because of the timing of the process is the unspent funds that go back to public works and fire department uh reserves at the end of the year. And this is unspent 2020 operating funds. These are unspent operating funds for the public works department and the fire department that go back to their uh respective reserves at the end of the year. And so I was

hoping Ruth could give us an update on those because those that money is not accounted for anywhere in the uh in the spreadsheets. And so, for example, if we're receiving a reserve request for $100,000 from, let's say, public works, and you know, I you know, I don't know what's going back, but let's say 30,000 is going back. In my mind, that's in the request is a net 70 rather than a 100,000 because that 30,000 is unaccounted for. So I think somehow we have to reflect that in our in our ranking um and in as we're considering each application and the need for each application, we do have to consider what what is anticipated to go back or at least that's makes sense to me. So I was hoping that Ruth could give us an update tonight. I

where we stand with public works and fire department and and what it looks like at this point is going to go back and of course you know got a snowstorm coming. We don't know exactly but uh Ruth, how does it look? Uh so I'm I'm going to share my screen for a second just because it's easier I think to to show you guys what I do.

Okay. Can you see my screen? on a monthly basis, I go through the budget and I put in all of these figures. So under November, I see where it's black. So that's figured in. The orange are my estimates. And these are estimates based on the last several months. And so there may be outliers. So I can't guarantee 100% that this is where it's going to land. And I suspect that um both Calvin and Chief may disagree with some of my numbers. Uh, but it it's looking to me like the fire department I is probably going to return about $35,000 is my guess. Um, which

probably is $5,000 one way or the other. So, and then come on, let me go down. Okay. Sorry, I don't have my usual mouse. It's driving me crazy. And then, not to make you guys dizzy or anything. And then I did public works as well. Um you'll see November uh the total spending was 243 248 but that uh was increased substantially because the paving line was paid out that particular month the 195,000. Um so my estimate or guesstimate for this month would be about 104,000 that we would spend. So that means about $70,000 would go back into the public works fund.

then I'm going to go and share a different part of my screen. assigned fund balances. This is one of the the tabs on your your worksheets that I sent you. Um, and what I've done is I've updated. So if you look over here at the fire and rescue, let me go up a little bit so you guys can see the the headers.

yesterday for fire and rescue, we had received uh from the ambulance the 52,738. So that will go into capital definitely. Uh there may be a little bit more, but it won't be substantially more. What did your what did your previous spreadsheet estimate? The one that we received, Ruth, was that 40.

We were down about I think we were at 37 when I first started with that. So, what I had what I had done is I had taken the actual number that that we had uh collected up to that time and I had filled that in. Um, and now the actual number up to what we've collected now is is a little over 52 thou well almost $53,000. So, it sounds like an approximately an additional 15,000 is likely to go um into reserve uh for the fire department from uh from the ambulance funds,

53,000 almost, right? Well, you know, the initial spreadsheet accounted for for 37,000, 52,000 is total. It's not Yeah, I understand. Okay. Okay. So, yes, an additional,000 total. Yeah. So, an additional 15,000 roughly from the last time you you looked at it.

Yeah. Okay. They have spent out of their fund this year 59,60. So, that went up a little bit. They purchased a couple more. um I I want to say it was gear, but I don't remember exactly what it was that they purchased um from their capital fund. Um and then you'll see after that 59,000 I have the estimate of the 35,000 that would go back in, which would bring them to about the 298. And that could go a little bit either way, but uh but that's where I'm uh that's where I'm throwing my dart.

Right. Okay. Now, these numbers are not reflected in their reserve requests. No, that's the issue. No, the board uh the select board requested that I not put them in there because they were not something that could be um foreseen. You couldn't count on it basically.

Yeah. Ruth, can I ask a question? Just just so I'm clear, the the um public works and the fire department are the only two that go back into capital, right? Everything on the administration side that goes into undesated funds, right?

Yep. Um, and then the only other thing that goes goes back into the capital would be the telecommunications. Telecommunications. Yeah, that's right. Oh, and recreation, too. the parks and recreation goes back into okay but that's not usually substantial

so you know I I think certainly when we give our ranking and our recommendation to the selectman uh we can provide this caveat um but I think it begs the question of how we consider these applications when we score them whether we take these new numbers into account or Not.

take into consideration after looking at our rankings when they made their decision? Mark, what do you think? What do you think? Um, I'd say the budget committee at first would probably, you know, when I was on the budget committee, I always took,

you know, how much was going was left over and how much how much you asking. But I think we will to have to take we're going to need to make sure from a budget standpoint, we have to look at every line. so you know, again,

if uh Michelle, if you could also Michelle, if you could also Thank you. Thank you. is when we're scoring the reserve requests. Um, I'm assuming then if that's the case, then we just score them according to the amount they requested even though in a sense the amount's not accurate because the the balances of those reserves are going to go up significantly uh by the unspent because of the unspent

2020 operating funds that the selectman will roll into the reserves. important thing is consistency that we're all approaching it the same way. Um, Michelle or Joe, you know, would you like to weigh in here with regard to how we how we can approach this?

because you make a good point. I mean, if they requested 100,000, but they're going to already have 60 coming back, just as an example. So, yeah, that make does that make a difference in our thought process knowing they already are getting 60? I mean, it might.

So, that I'm sure Yeah. The best way to do that. off of the amount they've requested knowing that they have funds potentially coming back. Yeah, but but I also something to add. I mean I I I didn't expect to be the budget committee here either. So I mean the numbers are interesting um from a standpoint of we get an understanding of of um what's available and what extra they're asking for. But as far as a ranking's concern concerned, it's it's a um ranking on need um for the town. You know, what is the most important thing that the town needs? And then I'm going to rely on

quite frankly the other committees to figure out if uh the need of that um is fundable. um you know whether they have $10 in their account or you know $500,000 in account in their account. I mean it's it's if I say that uh the guy with $500,000 in his account doesn't need something well then he can just keep the $500,000 there until he really does. And the person who has $10 in account then that's the person who really needs something. That's what I expect the rating to show is is the actual need.

What do we what do we think the need for the town is and then let the other committees do their job as far as budgetary items? Um, so I'll be honest, the, you know, the the the numbers are interesting, but if we really need something, then we need to go get it. um

and um figure out how to manipulate the money is I'll say up to the selectman and up to the budget committee on how that gets allocated. That's kind of my two cents on this whole this whole thing, you know. Yeah. Yeah, I generally agree with you, Joe, in many respects. I think the only place where it comes into play is the reserve accounts and um because um it

does have an impact I think in the scoring of a reserve account and the need of a reserve account. Um if for example you have a large purchase coming up in the future the account balance is low and um the am and at you know at

that point the amount that they're requesting to put into reserve uh can I think play a role in the scoring play scoring. So, but that said, you know, I think the only place where it would really come into play is these two reserve requests. Um, the fire department and the uh the fire department and public works.

And in this case, there the public works department, we're anticipating that approximately $70,000 is going back. Fire department, it sounds like roughly an additional 50 is going back. So the differential between the two isn't that great. You know, I'm just thinking is this enough to kind of sway, you know, in terms of the ranking to um sway the numbers so that one reserve ends if we don't take this into account, one reserve ends up higher than the other or if we do, you know, they could change the relative position of those two reserve requests. But but but the reserve request is um you know again for

planning purposes, right? We're talking about a a fire engine that's um you know in the future. Um granted we have a we have a you know application for you know immediate need right to to upgrade some of the equipment. Um and and this this the same with the truck with the um with the uh plow truck that you know that's a future need. So I do agree that the what they have already in in reserve is is

important because really what it comes down to is is are they asking for enough now to actually not um hit folks in the chin? uh lack of a better approach here or a better description, you know, when it comes time to actually do that in two or three years. Um you know, are we

putting enough away and are we recommending that they putting it putting enough away? Are they asking for enough um now, right? I mean, you know, there's a a whole timing to this in regards to, you know, how much money we make uh by putting money away early versus how much, you know, bonds and whatever will cost us later, right? That's the tradeoff. And and I honestly expect the finance committee to do a lot of that footwork to figure out um you know and maybe they need to input into this ahead of time versus later. um as to, you know, do they think that the amount that's being requested now makes sense from a longterm

capital gains standpoint and interest rate standpoint, right? I mean, if we think the interest rates going to go up and we're better off borrowing money tomorrow versus three years from now, I mean, nobody's got a crystal ball, but um, you know, you're better off packing money, you know, packing money away now, uh, where it's cheaper money, per se, versus having to go and borrow money for a higher interest rate later.

made and and I'm not sure this committee's actually got a scope to actually go and figure that part of it out. Uh so what sorry I'm wondering looking forward uh if you know we're going to run into this problem every year or where we stand Mark with regard to

changing the uh the town's budget cycle from a calendar year to a fiscal year. I know there was quite a bit of there's has been quite a bit of discussion. Where does that stand? Can you bring us up to date? Part of this is

talked about that in a period of long period long time as far as I know we haven't talked about that recently. So I see. So I would I think the last time we talked about we were talking about you know possibly depending on what the town manager does and maybe that's a project we look at in the future but we haven't talked about it recently. I'd say two issues here. One is we have, you know, Durham is in this unusual position of having a a calendar year budget rather than a fiscal year budget. That's the first issue. The second issue is that this money, you know, this is the way we handle uh these unspent funds. rather than them going to undesate it, they are uh directed, you know, toward by some old town meeting vote directed to these accounts. Um, so just recognizing

that it does make the work of this committee a little more challenging and I don't know what the opportunities are in the future to hopefully try to sort some of those things out. But um just recognizing that that said, I don't think there's really much more we can do this year other than rate the

requests, I guess, as we receive them. I think that probably makes the most sense. And um then maybe when we forward our recommendation to the selectman, we can point these, you know, point this out that we're aware of these other funds that are were to be rolled, but at the time, you know, we rated these projects. They hadn't been rolled yet. So there wasn't any way really for us to account for them or for them to be accounted for in the requests. So, does that seem like a reasonable and and we could also

point out these other two issues that really kind of make it a a challenge for us to get uh good information with, you know, good uh or how should I say really accurate financial information for the reserve balances just because of the timing of the process and the fact that you know this money is rolled back into these accounts rather than going decimated does.

So, so Paul, just just for um you know, just to to look at it, if you look at the screen, um so the difference because they spent the $59,000 this year. Uh this is the fire department because they spent the $59,000 this year. They're going to collect somewhere around 52,000 and perhaps put back $35,000. They this they did the board did have us account for the funds from the EMA services, but actually the difference in the funds from the EMA services this year with the amount that they actually spent is going to only be well actually hold on a second because this up here includes those. So this is what's collected in 2021. So actually that doesn't change. Sorry. Okay. Um, you know, basically all I'll say on this is in order for this committee to do its job, it needs accurate reserve balances. Uh, actual reserve balances. Uh, reserve balances that are anticipated going into the budget year.

Well, maybe you don't maybe what you So that's, you know, that's a challenge. Yeah. But because we it's, you know, it's impossible to get them because of these other things, right? No, Paul, I understand. But maybe what you do is you you adjust for it in the following year.

think that it comes into the challenge is that um you want to be able to take it into account. You really want accurate reserve balances when you're doing your, you know, your rankings and your consideration of the applications. But I honestly I think we've probably spent enough time on this and we ought to um move on to other questions about the applications. I just, you know, I wanted to point this out and make sure we have a way to hopefully address it and um if it makes sense with the other committee members, you know, I think the way to address it is maybe just with a note when we refer on our rankings that you know, we know this and you know, there still are these issues, but um we score the applications as we

receive them with the information that we received. Does that make sense? Sounds good. Yeah, that sounds good. Okay, good deal. All right. Um, any outstanding questions on any of the applications or the replacement schedules?

uh using the scoring sheet? Now, I know in my case, I haven't done my scoring yet. Uh Joe, I think you may have already done your scoring. So, you may be uh you know, you may be when you did your scoring, did any questions come up?

actually came out about where I thought it would. Okay. Um, you know, I um the the other machine I did the scoring on isn't running right now. Um, so I think that um the Hang on here. I'm there now. Let me see. Bear with me.

scoring came out pretty um score, you end up um it's kind of funny. You go score things and then you go back later and review it, you're like you end up in the same place you originally were when you're at the end, even if you boo some things around. It's no different than uh I'll say it and I hate saying it this way, but when you actually go through um uh like a review cycle for your employees, you pretty much know where everybody is in the beginning

and you go and do this exercise and you're like, "Wow, that came out pretty close." And um I think everything came out about where I where I thought it would would would end up. Um, so I, you know, I used the spreadsheet from last season and, um, it it, um, you know, it

put the priority on on the scuba air packs. Um, and then it went from there. You know, basically the fire and rescue uh, fire rescue capital funding is important. Um, and so is the DPW truck. So they came out basically at the same score or one point apart from each other. Um and then the other two reorg

and stuff ended up and the reorg and the one and a half ton dump came out less. So um I I don't think that I'm probably far off from where we actually need to be. Um and and probably where the department heads think it needs to be. Um, yeah, you know, I I will I will offer that, you know, I I think the town Rioorg is a bigger thing than we're actually, you know, for us to just rate ourselves. I I think that's a huge huge undertaking. Um and and um it it I do

agree that you know having somebody give uh their input in into that is uh certainly appropriate. Um and um as well as the um ability um you know we're hiring a town manager right is on the uh is on the docket here to go do and um I

think that person needs to have a large input into the reorganization. Um, so that that was kind of why um I'll say that maybe that didn't rank as high because I think really you need that person in place to be able to make this effective. And um so not saying don't do it, but I'm not sure this is the right timing for it. So that's kind of my my view of of the the I think I hit the two, four, five. I got five projects here. Hopefully I got the right amount. Um, no. But, um, so I think that, um,

you know, again, liability for an a DPW truck. Um, you know, we we need we need DPW trucks for for doing um, you know, plowing and sanding and salving and keeping the road safe. Uh, same with the fire department. Um, you you need to keep that going. We've invested a lot of money in that that department and um that certainly uh needs to uh we don't keep the money flowing in those those two areas that I'll call them the big areas of the town um uh for funding um

next to the school system. Those are the those are the those are the biggest and we need to keep our eyes on them and make sure that they're they're funded appropriately to um to the expectation of what people want for services in town. Um so, you know, that that's um

that's kind of where where I stand on on most of the subjects here, but they were all very close. I mean, they're points apart from each other when you go and start rating them. um in effectiveness, need, and um you know, how they'll help the community. They're they're all very important subjects that we're talking about here.

us. That's, you know, as I mentioned, I haven't scored these yet, but on first first blush, that's certainly not inconsistent with uh how I'm considering these applications. Um, you know, adding to the fleet is certainly a uh, you know, has to overcome a hurdle, I think, too. You know, it's not on the schedule. It's new. uh would be a new vehicle. I think a lot of the things, you know, it's hard because a lot of the things that I read in that application make sense with regard to needing a better way to to plow these subdivision roads.

Yeah. Yeah. On that one, heavier equipment, but I think there are still a few inconsistencies that need to maybe be ironed out with regard to how these vehicles are the the truck the smaller trucks are used. Yeah. And I think, you know, and you know, that could be scheduling tools to make things easier. That could be a number of different ways to attack that. I mean, I get the underlying issue of not having enough vehicles to get people moved around, but um but I also um

certainly understand that it's a huge undertaking. I do understand that you do need a a vehicle that large after talking to a few people that do this for a living that that you do need a larger truck, you know, um you know, the half one and a half ton truck that they're asking for. I mean, it's certainly appropriate for what they're they're trying to do. Um and and so I I have no

argument there of of at this point, you know, I had kind of thrown around the idea of of repurposing the um um DBW um um uh Calvin's uh truck there um and using that. But, you know, he he kind of made it pretty clear that that just wasn't heavy enough. And and in my conversation with folks, I I I now I I now agree that you you need something larger for that kind of work um to to

reduce maintenance on it and and possibly, you know, you you don't want to break a truck. Uh l literally, you know, I mean, if you push too much, I mean, you you can run into an issue over over time. Um so um yeah so it's

definitely an important thing that we should we should think about and something they should you know maybe with better with I I won't say better but different planning um um you might be able to get around that for a while. Um but I'm not not sure that that you know I'm not sure that that will save us anything in the long run. I think you're still gonna going to have to do something with um with with with the plowing. And if that offsets like um

replacing a larger truck by a year or two, then that's a big savings when you start looking at it like that. You know, what will it offset for having um that truck go out versus a larger truck to do the same job? I would say there's a savings there. Um, so especially especially when you can move the snow banks back with the with the smaller rig and keep the other one off the road.

Or is it possible to offset the purchase of that new one and a half ton by eliminating one of the smaller dump trucks? I think is might be another question. You know, I I applaud Calvin for thinking for bringing this forward because um you know, clearly he recognizes a need

with regard to you know, the subdivisions, these subdivision roads, and you know, we have a lot of them. Yeah. And we'll put more in, too. We got a couple, two or three going in right now, I believe. So, um Right. That's a good point.

Some large ones. So I think it'll get a lot more use as time moves on here. But of course the business of this committee is planning is long-term planning and we have to consider this application within the context of the other applications that we've also received. And you know, fortunately, we don't have uh we don't have very many to consider this year, but um they uh they seem they do seem to

fall into a you know, an order that uh I wouldn't be surprised if if there's some consensus this year around that. Yeah, I agree. What Michelle, how about you? Do you have any thoughts you'd like to share? Um, mostly just been listening back and forth trying to process all of it. Um, I guess the one thing with the plow truck just thinking through about you know when you're trying to do something whether it's work or home and you're not using the best equipment, how challenging it can be, more time consuming

and you know, is it worthwhile to spend the extra money? Are you saving cost by doing that? Whether it's time, wear and tear, and other equipment. So, I guess that's that's the piece I'm trying to weigh, you know, trying to use a screwdriver or one that's, you know, a manual versus an automatic. So, it certainly goes a lot faster one way than the other. So if you're using a plow truck that's not efficient or as effective,

are we losing out on that? Mark, is this Mark? Is this a discussion that the discussion that the with regard to the to say that again, Paul, you were cutting. Has have the selectmen discussed has it come before them? uh you know I'm assuming of course the application came before them but what was the discussion of the select board with regard to this application for the 1 and a half ton plow truck?

Um we haven't really gone through that yet. We're waiting for the CIP committee to come forward with the recommendations and then we take that and go forward. Okay. Okay. Thank you. is certainly a good one, um, with regard to, uh, you know, having the right tools to to do the job on the other hand. So I

think that you know hopefully in the process of ranking for each of us that will that will play out with regard to um the plow truck save versus uh versus the reserve request those types of questions. Yeah. I feel like the plant truck, at least for me, is my biggest question or struggle to

work through. Yeah. Yeah. But we'll say once I go through the sheets, I think I think it'll be a little clearer. It'll kind of stand out, work itself out. Right. Right. And of course, we'll have another chance to discuss this when we come back to approve our recommendation to the selectman. So, um, uh, yeah, you know, I

totally agree that or I'm totally on board with that. We should all follow our own thought process here and, um, and, uh, that send our scores to Michelle. She'll coalate them. We'll see how they come out and then we'll have that discussion. Uh, with regard to that, Michelle, when would you like the scores by? And you know, luckily not too many applications this year and there's only three of us, but we're due to meet on the 21st. So,

so when should we should we plan to uh if you can get them to me so I have time to do them this weekend. It shouldn't take too long for me to put it in and the sheets all set up so I just have to plug in the numbers. All right. So, by the end of the day,

so by the end of the day Yeah. Friday or first thing Saturday something. Okay. Sounds good. Sounds good. And I did send around Michelle's spreadsheet so we can do I'll do what Joe did last year which was, you know, plug my numbers directly into your spreadsheet. So that'll hopefully make it easier for you.

Okay, that sounds good. Thank you. Okay, very good. Okay. Um, any other questions regarding scoring the applications? date is the 21st, which is I believe that's a Monday, isn't it? Yeah. Okay. Okay. So, it's Monday the 21st uh 6 o'clock and uh same channel, same place.

So, um I think that's all that's all I've got this evening. Does anyone else have business that we need to discuss before doing our scoring and sending our and Michelle? Michelle. So, that's definitely just the three of us doing the scoring.

I have not have not heard my understanding is that will not be scoring um because he indicated that he plans to sit the rest of the season out. Uh I have not heard from Curtis. I don't know Ruth if you've heard from Curtis. It sounds like you I believe you mentioned that you hadn't.

Uh not since the last time I talked to him. No. Okay. Yeah. Well, yeah. I suspect that I mean I don't know what to say uh with regard to uh Curtis, but I suspect that it will probably only be the three of us and everyone has received the material. Um

unknown. I guess I would be quite surprised if he stepped up at this point to score. And as we indicated previously, I think that it is important that if you do score and you've missed meetings because there's a you know, we we uh try to take into account a lot of information in this committee. I think it's very worthwhile to go back and listen to the meetings if you were unable to attend. Um so my hope would certainly be but in this case you know it's kind of extreme because um he hasn't hasn't been able to attend any of the meetings this year. So anyway I think it's really just the three of us and um we'll get you the scores by Friday. Certainly let me know Michelle if you do receive something from Curtis. I think that might be helpful to know.

Sure. And um we'll we'll proceed from there. That's all I've got. I think there's only one la last thing left to do. evening. I'll second that. Excellent. Excellent. Joe and Michelle. Joe and Michelle. Hey guys, enjoy the snow.

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. You know, it should be fun, right? Yeah. Isn't it always? How much are they predicting? I haven't They're up to a foot. They're up to a foot right now. Oh my goodness. The switch.