TranscriptPlanning Board Meeting ~ February 15, 2024

welcome to the postponed regular meeting of the Durham planning board on it was supposed to be February 7th it's now February 15th and we'll begin first thing to do is determine a quorum and there are five of us uh so we have a quorum uh any and then amendments to the agenda is next anyone have amendments to the agenda John you wanted to add an item to set the date of the public hearing for the land I was going to let let them go first is there anybody that's fine so what I'd like to do is so we don't have to have the discussion with those folks are here is is item number seven discuss a date for the public hearing for the land use articles pick that date you you're going to stay so okay so we'll go ahead and and while you're thinking about it two possible dates where this is open to the 13th and 20th of this month so uh the next step is acceptance of the minutes of the prior

second I second moved and seconded uh all in favor raise a hand you can't vote you have to abstain markain Mark ABS um so it's 401 right did I count that right yeah 401 next is information exchange on non-agenda items Town planner okay uh uh just to

update everyone the uh select board uh reviewed the draft uh land use ordinance amendments proposed by the planning board at their February 6th meeting and passed unanimously the housing and the solar amendments on for placement on the town meeting warrant uh and then they tabled the fees uh proposal and uh they

then met last night and no last week wasn't it last week Monday I'm sorry yes you're correct it was last night was budget committee uh they met last week and they um uh changed one word and that was from reviewing the fees annually to reviewing the fees periodically which they pointed to the inconsistency between the original warrant article that said that the uh select board would be able to uh adjust the fees uh periodically the text of the ordinance uh said annually and so there was some confusion are can they only do it once a year or are they allowed to do it more frequently on and so they they made that change and the second change was they added an umbrella provision that gives them the authority to adopt any fee associated with administration of the ordinance so the draft that we have repaired listed all of the fees in the current ordinance including ones that were being added but it limited it to

those named fees uh this umbrella provision which is another uh subsection of that uh passage in article 18 now says they have the authority to establish a fee for any administrative service called for by the land use ordinance so they couldn't adopt a fee for something outside of that only for what's in the land use ordinance so so that uh they made that change and then they're going to go forward with that uh in addition to the other two uh then uh secondly I wanted to bring up to date that as I understand it and John has been on the and Allen have been on the budget committee but I understand that the uh town meeting warrant will include $10,000 or what I'm not sure the exact amount money for the codification digital codification of the ordinance uh and then the last thing I wanted to update you on was the fact that uh we have reopened Communications with the greater Portland Council of

governments on doing a master plan visioning plan for the community facilities that are located uh this building the town hall uh and the Eureka Center in and the ball field in terms of coming up with a plan because there been all kinds of ideas and uh plans to say different facilities need have different needs this will kind of pull them all together into a into a master plan that will say okay here's here's how this is all going to work connections between these properties and those sorts of things will be looked at so it'll be a visioning process uh starting probably right after the town meeting uh and probably the first step with that will be for the Consultants uh GP Cog to come in and do a presentation to the select board and the planning board basically explaining the project and kind of kicking it off um is there a cost that there is a cost cost of $8,000 for GP Cog they have uh got a grant from the main Department

of Transportation uh to cover the cost of this study and one of the things that will come out of it is looking at the intersection up here that's how it kind of ties into uh and parking access onto the state highway pedestrian circulation within these areas which is non-existent right now uh so that's how they justify that it qualifies for MDOT money and depending on the results of that if there's a desire of the town to move forward that study would then put the town in a position to apply for other grants for actual design work and or construction so they um they went for the grant received it and then came to us yes yep it was actually the town manager that kind of got the ball rolling on that that's it um two things kind of found out by George's one that I can think uh the the warrant will include four additional hours of George's time uh so right now it's 20 rough 20 hours a week multiply times

52 um and it'll be 24 uh but as a reward for whatever for uh the extra four hours I understand you're going to take responsibility for a work with the appeals board that has been discussed okay so you know there's no such thing as a free extra four hours uh so having said any residents other than what's on the agenda tonight non-residents I don't see any with that we will get into continuing business which is uh completeness review of site plan review application for expansion of the Leisure Leisure C oh I'm sorry Julia has to recused herself but while she's doing that I'll read it complet less review of site plan review application for expansion of the Leisure Camp Campground for 40 RV sites map 2 lot 13 and there will be no public comment and the reason Miss kinger had to recuse herself is she is an abing neighbor so I think Mr thear would you K this off with the yeah I had had provided agenda notes

to the board and the applicant that uh indicate that on December 6 was the last time the board reviewed this application and you determined that the application was incomplete and you had a list of uh deficiencies that needed to be addressed the first of those was under Section 8 5

C which calls for 10 copies of fullsize site plan uh the applicant has submitted full-size copies of an existing conditions plan dated August 15 2023 revised 1228 2023 by Mainland development Consultants of Livermore Falls and note 16 on that plan says that

uh the purp purp of the plan is to show a partial existing condition survey and Campground expansion concept of Duran Durham Leisure Campground no ordinance review engineering design or permitting was completed by Mainland the second yes so we'll go Mr thear will go through the list and then we'll ask you all to sit up here and you can talk to the comments okay so the second uh deficiency noted in the December 6th letter was that um the applicant needed by ordinance to submit a copy of septic system test bit logs by a qualified professional the applicant resubmitted the preliminary soil evaluation test pit logs from June 21st prepared by Bonnie

Cobb who's a licensed uh soil evaluator those were provided for the conditional use review the uh item C of the list of deficiencies was indication of the zoning District the applicant indicated that uh it's now on the plan and I did verify that it now specifies that the zoning district is rural residential and agricultural the section 5 8.52 C uh

says that the applicant is required to show all drainage ways and proposed existing and proposed culverts uh the applicant has requested a waiver of this requirement both for a storm water plan and he stated in the application that he will put culs where they need where they are needed during construction item e on the list was the main traffic entrance site distances and the board directed the applicant to provide qualified professional measurements on the plan the applicant has stated quote it's in the printout on the printout uh the applicant submitted a graphic diagram titled Durham Leisure Campground dated 1212 2023 with a note at the bottom that reads the main Department of Transportation provides this publication for information only Reliance upon this information is at the user risk it is subject to revision and may be incomplete depending on changing conditions the department assumes no

liability if injuries or damages result from this information this map does not support emergency dispatch there is no indication on the diagram indicating the project location entrance location or available site distances on Route One along Route 136 at the project entrance the applicant has not submitted measurements by a qualif ified professional survey or engineer to verify that the project entrance has safe safe site distances on Route 136 for the posted speed limit of 50 mil per hour uh item F of the board's incomplete list was waste disposal types and Facilities submitted by qualified uh professionals hh2 200 and system septic system design the applicant is requesting a waiver of the requirement to submit the engineering plans for the semi public wastewater treatment system that will serve 40 RV sites he submitted an engineering proposal for a design for a systems with a capacity of 5,000

gallons uh per day dated December 21st 2023 and I did bring to the board's attention that that proposal uh specifies what type of uh site analysis work they're going to do for test pits where the leech current proposal will be for the leech bed as opposed to the preliminary test bits and this unsigned engineering proposal further agrees to provide an engineered system designed for serving the proposed 40 new sites per the State State uh rules and I did also note that that same proposal indicates that the system will be designed to per the applicant's plan to expand the existing Campground by 40 model trailer sites which had sanitary septic s service for site and I suggest that the board may want to clarify because uh you were under the understanding during the conditional use review there were two types of units in the park some were what they call park model trailers and the others were the standard

RVs uh and so this system appears to be based on the consultant's proposal to be being designed for Camp Model uh trailers for the entire project so you may want to have some clarification on that point item G was the the proposed landscaping and buffering the applicant is continuing as he has before to propos that the existing treat condition of the campground will provide adequate landscaping and buffering uh h of the list was the location and details of signage the applicant has stated that the location of signage and speed signs is on the printout details around the legend the existing conditions plan uh does show a stop sign at the project entrance on 136 and three internal stop signs at intersections inside the project and it shows four 5 m per hour speed limit signs on that system he submitted an updated campsite numbering diagram showing site 66 next to site 8 which is across the road from

site 16 uh the planning board should ask for comments from the fire chief as to the need for a logical numbering and campsite signy sequence to locate sites quickly in emergencies uh item I of the list uh subsection 8.5 c21 uh calls for a lighting plan uh showing the location and type of area lighting uh the application indicates that location is on the printout the legend uh on that plan contains symbols for utility poll and overhead and underground electrical lines there are no symbols for light fixtures and none could be located on the plan there is one of those poles says light pole but that's as close as I could find to anything indicated the lighting uh no specifications for any light fixtures with illumination levels have been provided per the ordinance the applicant has stated that they run a dark sky Campground all the kids are on site after dark from mid July to mid-september they have minimal lighting

for dark sky to deter brown tail moths from coming to the area the applicant submitt subed information sheets about brown tail moth mitigation uh and I did point out that the standards for lighting in non-residential projects are found in 8.6g J of the incomplete list indicated a letter from Inland Fishers and Wildlife on their habitat review the applicant did provide a letter dated J January 16 2024 from ifnw indicating there are no habitat essential habitats on the project site similarly K related to the requirement for a review by uh main historic preservation commission there was kind of conflicting information one email indicated there were no uh historical resources on the property the second email submitted by the applicant St stated that it's under review and they will send the letter as soon as they complete their review both were dated the same day of December 28th of last year um erosion and sedimentation

control plan submitted by qualified profess professional or request a waiver the applicant is in fact requesting a waiver from the requirements uh and uh stated that it's not in the runaround Pond Watershed which is one of the factors to consider and he further stated that he is not changing drainage patterns or installing previous uh it should be uh interrupting previous surfaces I think uh m is storm

water plan similarly he's asking for a waiver of that on the same grounds and then I did uh point out to the board that the uh requested waiver form has uh requests for waivers from uh subsection C12 c16 c26 and c28 and c29 and the waiver form contains the criteria that the board must judge in granting any waiver from the requirements of the ordinance uh and based on the conceptual uh plan uh it appears that they going to create made 32,000 Square ft of uh Disturbed area for the road Network and another at 1,000 square ft per campsite which the applicant indicated would be the plan that adds another 40,000 square ft of disturbance which then totals approximately uh 1.65 acres and according my understanding in checking the mdp uh website if you go over one acre of disturbance you need a state storm water permit and they will apply the same storm water erosion sedimentation control standards that are contained in

our ordinance uh and before uh making any decision on whether to Grant the applicants waivers I offer a suggestion that the board may want to consider seeking a peerreview opinion at the applicant's expense from the town's engineering peer Consultants goral Palmer as to whether the project is or is not subject to State storm water management and erosion control rules uh and you may further want to uh ask the town's consultant whether or not the idea and proposal to create a RV Park expansion for 40 sites with a semi-public water and sewer system uh warrants a uh a an engineering designs and site plan uh submitted for Board review and uh finally on the peer reviewer track would be to uh to ask this peer reviewer to verify uh exactly what are the site the site distances at the project entrance so I did include in the packet that was sent out two weeks ago uh the uh draft complete letter and a draft

incomplete letter updated for the new submissions and I've also prepared uh five draft motions uh for the board to consider if uh at whatever point you come to a decision on the completeness the first would be to request that peer review uh by goral Palmer on those three issues the second motion would be do you have that I will but I think it's probably better to wait until you have your discussion and the applicant has the opportunity okay so I will I have copies ready for distribution to the board when you come to the point of making a decision one way or the other but I just wanted to outline the options that I've prepared for you to to to get something done tonight so the first draft motion would be to request the peer review and table the item the second uh uh possible motion would be to Grant the waivers that are requested uh based on the record that you have before you uh the third

possible motion moves to deny the waivers based on the the submissions that you've reviewed so far and then the third set of motions would be to move that the application is complete if you determine uh in your judgment that you have enough information to determine whether this project does or do not meet the site plan review standards and criteria and then subsequent to that uh that you would uh or move to determine that it's incomplete so the first one would be do you want a peer review the second one would be uh do you grant the waiver or don't you grant the waiver and then the third decision point would be to say is it complete or is it incomplete and then if you decide that it's complete tonight and want to proceed with the substantive review of the project I've prepared draft findings of facts that go through all of the submissions and all of the points of the ordinance and give you that opportunity

to make a decision tonight if you so choose okay any questions for George next okay can we just we received the an erosion and Sim sedimentation yes I did neglect to mention that the applicant on Sunday sent a uh a narrative for an

erosion and sedimentation control plan and I did send that on to the board so are they going to request their waiver for that you should get clarification from the at this point if not we will hear from the applicant okay

address personen H at 24 Leisure Lane Durham Ken he at 24 Le L and Durham thank you okay um kind of a long list that George read off there and I think since you're kind of at if you're asking for waivers or whatever do you have that list you want to kind of go through your thoughts on on uh what he said there um yeah so I believe it was

uh this here it's a so the five the 10 copies are are done right we got the 10 copies for that and then we have the requesting a waiver for the septic uh so the the town I'm sorry just I want to just check these off so we're good on item a section whatever it is full size site plan I'm again I just point out it's a it's labeled an existing conditions plan not a site plan and and I'm not just nitpicking on the title I'm saying what is on there is is described by their consultant as an existing conditions survey and conceptual plan it's not a formal site

for the the test bits for septics for C I just I just requested a waiver for that because um of timing for that as far as I don't know know if I don't see the process of the waivers I don't know if if you know we're going to be checking back on the waivers if we get if we have to provide that up front to the board to for someone to look over that or not I don't know how the waivers waivers go so if I had the stuff in time because I actually did this in December I missed the January meeting and so this was old so that's why he was getting uh you know we we put stuff in after the fact because we we we got it before you know so January came in he had we had another when he was talking about I don't want to I don't want to jump ahead so we'll just go we'll just go from here yeah um so Bonnie Cobb is not a uh uh she doesn't do septic she she does septic designs but nothing over 2,000 gallons per day so I had to get an

engineer to do the do the septics um so this was just saying that you want a test log so I gave you a test log and then if you don't accept a test log we would request a waiver or wait for the plan to come in for an engineered engineered print that would be uh permitted by the state so obviously that's going to have to be approved by uh the plumbing code enforcement officer or whatever you want to do for that okay time may be rather jump on do we have any let's have any questions on it we'll talk about voting approval or not of the waivers later are there any questions on the individual items as we're going through there not yet okay not for me

anyway I guess I have one did and you lost me for a little bit there do we have new test pit logs is that what you were telling us the the test pit logs are not they the only test pits we have are from Bonnie Cobb he he did test rits but they're not in okay they're not in yet okay so the new guy hasn't submitted them correct he's supposed to be coming on the 28th okay I got you yeah so but I didn't know if if the board wants to wants to wants to wave that and have that approved by the town or have them come out through with because it's a state state engineer I I don't know how you guys want to handle that one and wait for that I can bring it to you next meeting or however you want to handle that

so okay go ahead I was say get back GNA go to the next one unless you guys have something okay indicating zoning uh that's on the map now it's it on the ledgers 13 um drainage ways um there's nothing that's going to be over 5% for drainage on the property um we were just going to put uh cing if we need them during construction phases that's what I had for that one now one thing on that whenever we look at anything that's being developed culer indicated where they're going to be placed I know it seems like this is a common sense thing to do but there is nothing no indication

to me on the plan where there might be the future cols yeah we don't I mean I I talked to the to the uh escavator and he doesn't you know he says he's just going to put him where he needs them and he's been pretty good with us when he J the road and stuff like that as far as on the Dozer he he can see elevations and stuff like that um and he was I said just put them in where you need them I didn't you know we're not running you know it's not it's not really a Sho string budget here if we need a cover we'll just put one in I don't want the roads to wash out and stuff like that so and it's I mean when you guys walk the property it's the highest point of the property it's not it's there's no there's nothing for that but I mean we can potentially put a Calvert you know guess where a Calvert's going to go and and put one in there if that's suffices to to get through this

you know check marker or box or whatever you guys want to do I I would expect that there is a certain leeway the the code enforcement officer would be the one who come out and say you know he'll do the he'll do the road inspection so uh I'm hardly a storm water engineer but I think there's places that would seem to make sense to me to put one uh and so whether you put it you know here

or 10 feet over or whatever so that you don't have to take out a big tree I don't think that's an issue I think the ground's going to slope he's in somewhere in that general area we'd like to know you're planning to put a culbert and it could be just is yeah what we're asking wouldn't our Public Works director be uh involved in that cuz he's involved in it would be would be the drive would you're right on any road Improvement or meeting standards for the town it's always the Public Works director that needs to sign off on that so so I I would I would certainly make sure that Calvin is

code officer nor the Road commissioner has authority to to say a culvert belongs here or not there has to be a plan saying that that the planning board has determined that it must be there for it to be enforcable so anything they do on site on this code officer does not inspect roads it's true the road commissioner has no authority to require culverts if they're not on a plan approved by the planning board so it would just be advisory it wouldn't be forceable I think what I was referring to is when someone's looking for a driveway permit correct that's when Calvin is involved he has jur specific jurisdiction for that making sure that they're yep okay okay so we'll get back to yes or no on that in a bit

uh traffic entrance site distance and I put it's on the print so I had the engineer put the the 500 sight distance on the print so it should be on there as far as Road distance for the for the um for the entrance I I don't we looked earlier and I'm looking now and I don't see it I gave you all my PRS I don't even have one now right here 500t and then you got where's your other one

entrance right here okay so who made that determination that was uh that was Mainland Mainland yeah I mean okay I I I I did my due diligence and I called up an engineering firm to see about um you know the scope as far as that goes for uh site opening entrance permits and stuff like that not entrance permits but a uh traffic studies are engineered uh traffic studies and uh they said the same thing that the the main doctor said that it's not the traffic account doesn't generate doesn't generate that and if you guys want in one it's two months out it's eight weeks and it's 5,500 bucks yeah so I I don't know what

you guys want to do about that one clarify in preparing the findings I do see the 500 ft from the entrance you're saying that is the sight distance on this plan yes okay and what was the other one and where is it it was right here did everybody see where he Wasing in there that's the so I can see this

okay and so Mainland went out measured and that 500 feet is clear 500 that's the 500 foot Mark yeah I mean no one's GNA you know no one's going to say you know there's never going to be anything going on and and and you know there's never going to be an accident in that 500 ft do no that's not what I'm asking I'm like I wouldn't stick my neck out there and do that either but no but but but there has to be it has to be a clear line of sight for 500 ft and it is that's what he's saying here okay and we can I mean that's something that Calvin can verify too if you guys feel more comfortable with that you know that's very easy for him to go out and do that I could you know we had we we had an

issue down the road from your little ways where you know they it wasn't really clear turns yeah yeah so okay uh go ahead any other questions on same distance that's good I think we're on waste disposal types and Facilities section 8.5 16 yeah okay so yeah that that falls

written the same thing with the uh the septic system design um and that's going to be permanent that's that's just going to be a stamp system by the state and that's going to be inspected by them as well um I don't know the logistics of of

what he can do as far as Plumbing uh for codes and stuff like that if he he doesn't inspect engineered systems or nothing like that I don't think but I would think he'd probably still do um you know like piping in the ground or inspect piping in the ground and all that stuff as far as Allen I don't I don't know the logistics of that but it is it is going to be an engineered system designed by by them and a state state engineer thing so but that's going to be another thing that's just you know let's hold on that one on it's right it's it's like the next the last question is the same thing with that one so okay could you could you clarify whether that is seasonal or a year round what the C the expansion the expansion is seasonal all of it yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I remember uh with the that was the next question that's further down the road though but hold so we get there who my question is um for subdivision or whatever who's

done the sanitary inspections we don't really have never mind forget what I was asking uh a difference you have individual leech Fields engineer system engineered system is is designed approved by the state yeah for the septic fields yeah but uh he he will do all anything under anything under 2,000 G a day Allan will be would be the one to inspect all that stuff but I but I don't I mean that would be an excavation question I would think but the excavator guy to see who does pulls the permits like that for that well I got I've got all of that my question is that there's a significant L run of sanitary line and so I want to make sure that goes in correctly and that it doesn't you know when it crosses a water line it's got to be ex there has to be a separation there has to be a whole bunch of things like that that is I think a question is who's going to make sure so they have to be separated

horizontally when they cross they have to be separated vertically a certain distance who's going to do that for you I think is the question that I have on this particular maybe that comes up later it would be the it would be the excavation individual I mean that would be that would be Allen that would be inspecting all that I would assume I mean well if it's engine system it would show those details but the engine would show those well and that thank you I think my question is who's designing it is it going to is your engineer going to lay down on this map say that the sanitary is running on this side I'm looking for your Lee field but it at some point in time they're going to cross each other so sanitary is running here it's going to cross water is running here if it's got the right or wherever it's going to run but at some point in time they I would think they would cross yeah and again it's this way

and that way and so you what you're saying is your guy whoever that is main is that main whatever uh or gal Mainland yeah they will design it so that uh you've got the correct horizontal distance and the correct vertical distance between sanitary versus water y

well he's going to have to pull he's going to have to pull a permit from the CEO right and he'll have to approve or have it modified one way or the other yeah I think m question was is somebody actually going to design that so that you know draw doesn't he's designing he's designing it's not the Lee field he's designing the whole thing piping and everything and it's going to be something it's going to be a build print that you can give it to the excavation company and he can say go ahead and do it okay that ANW my question yeah you said that's the state requirement right I don't know if the piping and stuff is a state requirement but you need certain tanks and certain spots and stuff like that you need you know a certain percentage of gathering and stuff like that hand so it's the whole system but the whole system is design yes and the state right the state does look at that and it's a it's a it's a stamped print

so it's a stamped design okay that answered my question on that one thank you I have a quick CL clarifying question so in the packet there is a proposal um an agreement for engineered Wastewater Wastewater dis disposal Design Services for Mainland Camp Solutions um is you have entered into an agreement then with Mainland to yep they've came out twice already and he's coming back the 28th to do uh basically set set where the where the uh the fields are going to be going and potentially hopefully go back to the drawing board and and um design whatever he's going to do well the Design's already done he's got to try and figure out how they're going to be laying down the lots and stuff like that as far as elevations and all that stuff so I'm actually waiting for for piece of equipment to get back so we can dig some test bits and stuff like that to come back so because shovels don't work that well right

you okay all right where we at buffering landscape buffering Landscaping G so landscape buffering I I don't know as if we even need a waiver for that because there's plenty of landscape buffering I just put a waiver down because I didn't know if you wanted more buffering than that um but this is nothing within 100 ft and 500t from the nearest house and stuff like that that's pretty much treat all over the place so actually that's not on your list of waivers so I think you're just saying that it meets the requirements oh okay all right I must have the wrong one then yeah it does it says one of these things request a waiver okay I'm l through that all right um location of detailed signage and speed limits on the sign so I went through and put stop signs and and uh speed limit signs more aggressively on the campground um we have signs on the buildings and stuff like that that I you know the old stuff it says don't eat

more dust and stuff stuff like that you know coming up through and uh that I didn't put on there but you sure have that So the plan maybe we just changed it from existing to Safe plan or something but whatever it is this what this thing has more stop signs and more I'm going to add a ton more

lighting oh any I'm sorry any question questions on that okay we'll move on to uh India I guess it is so uh lighting so we we don't have much we have Lighting on the old parts of the campground we have lighting for the parking areas we have lighting coming up the road it's a fire I know you got to evacuate there nothing personal so we don't we run we

try to keep the campground real dark people like it real dark they have their fires going there's always lights on the campers and stuff like that we don't promote you know we we have people turn their lights off at night people don't want blaring blaring lights in their windows and stuff like that at night so I don't know what the whole commercial scheme is for lighting and all that stuff we do have motion sensors on all four of the buildings as far as going to the bathroom at night um with cameras on them with motion senses on the cameras so that lights up from that um but I didn't know what how much we were doing the old cuz I we're trying to concent tra on the new section I know how much we should be putting on the old on the old as far as that goes so understanding in the new section you're not you're asking for a waiver to put in lighting correct there's no there's no Lighting on any of the there's any questions on

that folks um no I'm sorry jay is Julia in military talk um inland fisheries and wildlife we do have a um we got was that the question that we had earlier no that one you got the other one is is the one that's questioned the historic preservation yeah so that same day the reason why there was two that day is is I texted her in the morning and then within the afternoon she actually gave me that thing back she said oh we'll we'll we'll send a letter out to you and I had that letter out and I sent this I sent the pack it out in January and then she actually gave me a um uh that that response later on in the day that's why you have that for the second response page 29 and your package there for was the original request letter and then the state stamped it and then the state stamped it that same day that's why you have the date the same the same

one section 2 looks like it's l erosion sedimentary plan so I I talked to the engineers for the erosion sedimentary uh Sim sedimentation plan and they said they send out the packets this is what they do for all the erosion sedimentary plan so when they come up to it they have it all if you come up to those issues that's what they do for the sedimentary plan for each individual project that they do so but I didn't have that I didn't have have that sedimentary plan when I when I did this that's why I sent it out to George after so uh any any questions I guess what I'm more used to is on a site plan erosion

control plan in places where we have concern about erosion where you're doing work uh particularly if in this case where it's going to go off site um does it show silt fences does it show uh check Dan uh because what I what I uh what I see here is generally the instructions that would go on the set the erosion control plan um you know sediment filter BS of the preferred filtering device but it doesn't there's nothing that says where they go Stone check dams or anything like that so uh that's my thoughts any yeah I would think your engineer could add this to your plans to show where the boundaries are mhm yeah this this is it's all going to be on the property but they're saying if you move more than uh I believe it's an acre an acre and a half you need a sary plan so this is a state requirement you you need to have it to to pass all my state stuff anyway it's not it's not a uh but at some point in time we need to see it

yeah yeah okay so before you get your site plan approval uh we're we're going to need to see that um and unless the request for waiver is unless I'm sorry unless the waiver is approved um so cuz cuz I believe this the the town ordinance says if it's in the the uh the uh Watershed of runaround Pond area that it could be waved so I didn't even know as if we even needed the sedimentary plant as far as the town goes that's why when I got it through the when I got the the provisions through that I said well I might as well just give it you know give that at the same time because I need it for the state anyway so that's why I requested a waiver and then I said well I MIL give it to you because I have time to put it in so so you're not requesting a waiver I'm requesting a waiver if I can get something past tonight so yes yes and no I don't know I that's what I'm saying I don't know how to do you know you don't have a problem

sending I just don't know that point you know if if some of just right if someone can say hey you got the thing and they pass it off and say it's fine and we don't have to come back that's fine I mean I like you guys and all but not that it's been a long moving been a long I ain't going to lie before we uh yes um storm water Alan we're moving on

from erosion control do you have any comments I think summarize what you just we're talking about the storm water so I I ended up um giving the storm water I'm back to erosion I just would summarize erosion what what you just said about uh you're willing to do it but not but don't want to hold it up if if I'm paraphrasing you correctly I'm ro ro control right so the I request a wa for the Roan control if it's not going to I don't even remember what I said now tell you the truth said you would do it but you didn't want to get held up tonight is that a good Su yeah there you go yeah exactly yeah I was just if we can get Allan to you know write off on it later on or something like that that'd be fine too but I don't know what the list we're get all the information as we're going through it and we can give it to you then if that's something that's so yeah it's it has to be approved by the state so what what I did

is is I requested a waiver because um it says in the in the runaround Pond Watershed you could be it could be waved so I was like well I don't know if we needed it or not and then it came in so I said well I'll just submit it now because I need it for the state anyway so it's for everybody to look at but then again you know and then Allan asked if we need you know you want a waiver or not and I was like well yes and no you

yet my feeling is that there needs to be one um we do anything pending because you know just somewhere it doesn't have to be really Intense or anything like that but where you're making a cut uh what are you going to reced where do you need erosion control fences any where um so that's my comments for now but I guess we'll come back to this so but I wanted to hear have Alan hear what you had to say can I step back on signage you may I'm just wondering whe

I'm sorry I stepped out for a minute any specific signage for each individual L was that addressed and the reason the reason for that is because for safety if there is ever a need for ambulance getting in there or any fire apparatus or anything like that they need to know the exact location yeah the lots are all they're all they're all labeled as far as that goes um I think that the question was um when you have sites coming in through here you had site 8 uh 16 and 66 in this little area here um this is all existing Campground these are the sites that they were existing um but as far as 66 being next to 16 and 8 is that what you you're talking about are you thinking of ruming them so they're in numerical order no

no no I'm I'm talking but this is the new section here we could do 37 to 60 66 or whatever it's just not they're not going to be in a numerical order anywhere you look at that the new stuff is in order but yeah this is in order here but it's just that's 37 this way and then goes High here you can go low here and go high here but that's about the gist of it you know I'm thinking the only other place I know in town is the trailer park and I would think that they're sequentially numbered for any emergency vehicle to get in there and that would be my concern I I certainly would think it' be yours too that making sure that anybody coming in there can get there as expeditiously as they can and that brings up the issue one of the campsite numbers but when you get in there how do you go need how do you know to go right or left and I me back up a step you when we did the S sidewalk um like one ways and things

well and you talked a lot to Chief the fire chief yeah what was his comments on because at the end of the day I think it'd be up to the chief to bless whether he's comfortable and I think he was asking for one of the things I remember from that was a detailed site plan uh not to not to bring up your competition but uh COA had a had a nice plan that they keep in their books and we'll probably put in their new computers uh prooved by the town that said this is where site one is where 47

is uh I mean that Mr P has got a got a good point was these guys got maybe showed up in the middle of the night um so how do they you know what helps them get left right well yeah if you if you come to a fork in the road is there going to be a sign saying one through whatever is over here and there's another sign that says what's on this side we can do that I've seen that at Campground and that's not a horri you know Hospital yeah I don't know if you're I understand what you're saying it's almost like go this direction these are the sites that are over here things like that guy pulls in his headlight show 1 through 27 right 28 through 30

and we're going to probably as this gets done have to label everything very carefully anyways just for people to find the site so yeah we can talk to the chief I mean he he was real reasonable I talked to him and he was you know he was he was real great with whatever whatever we had here but you know cop if he yeah I mean if if he looks at distance says yeah it's it's not you know we need to do something no but it's you know make a right you should make a he would tell you probably that minut it's matter yeah yeah no I agree yeah um okay yeah I'm fine okay anything

else on the stuff in between we've got letters from fishing wildlife and we've got a letter or a stamp from historical so I think we're good on those I okay so we're I think storm water Plan before I interrupted we were going to come back to that you want me to the the question is are there is there a need for detention Retention Ponds is it sheet flow across areas

that what you is your main sorry whoever's going to do your design here will they look at that yeah there's no sheet flow because it's all uh it's all impervious areas there's no impervious areas here it's all perious correct not perious yes but when it rings really hard I mean even come by my yard and yeah see see

where somebody drove through it and now it's all all in a standing water yeah so the concern is what if anything have my mind have Mainland or whatever they are whoever's doing it for you uh we want toensure there's nothing going off and going into streams or you know intermittent streams or just barely streams and then going off site so that's the concern that I have so um thoughts from others

gave them the sedimentary plan of what they thought that they would do during construction phases and stuff like that and what they had so it's whatever they want to do for erosion control so the question is sedimentary how do we know the whatever runoff there is that's running off you know because you'll tear up your drive as you're unless whoever does it for you is is better than the guys who torn up my drive um it's it's pretty bony over there there's no yeah that's what I thought too but it's what I I thought it there's a reason why there's rock walls all over the place yeah I have one in each side of my drive and ruts in the middle so uh I understand that's a yeah that's a concern like that water is running down onto one uh RS or 136 that

is concern that I've got with that's probably more erosion control the storm water plant is I think more um are do you need retention detention ponds how do you plan to because a good way to treat it is to let it run across the ground and I and you do have I forget is it sandy soil is it clay what is the all rock it's all it's all sandy it's it's gravel pretty much okay it's pretty much all gravel other thoughts and then the need for a St

okay does the ordinance Mr it says or request a waiver with calculations Pro the ordinance correct so the ordinance says you can get a waiver but you got to show us yeah just clarify a waiver is a waver it's not a if you meet these two you're you you've met the standard that's just a minimum uh determination of whether this is a major project or a minor project if you consider it to be a minor project that doesn't require a storm water two of the factors that you can consider is it in the Watershed of uh of a pond which would a runaround pond it's not and then secondly is it creating the threshold 5% of whatever it was of in of pervious surfaces like roofs T driveways so those are two factors that you can consider in coming to a conclusion is this just a minor project where we're not don't have any concerns about uh storm water management uh or is this a major project and I pointed out that they're disturbing uh

1.65 Acres which is over the D threshold for requiring a storm water permit so that kind of counterbalances is not in the pond Watershed and it's and they're not creating uh the percentage of of perious surfaces so I think you can consider both factors and then decide whether a waiver is appropriate or not appropriate but is it is it even if it exceeds the the maximum no no permit required so

1.65 exceeds the state's uh uh limit for no permit that would be another basis on which you would consider granting a waiver and that's why I recommend that you maybe consult with your uh peer review engineering firm to determine because the same issue came up on the Hollow Road subdivision the applicants over there stated oh no we don't need a STM water permit the peer reviewer looked at it and said oh yes you do and then they ended up conceding that they were supposed to get a state permit and they applied for it right you you you need a state this would you I will need to get a state state uh EPA permit for the stone water okay yes so you're going to have to do whatever takes so for me to for me to go through the state permitting process I need to need to do that I need to get a permit through the state to get to get their permit to get through through EPA so you're not that's that's the same

thing but I request a waiver so I can get through this process so I can stop my state process okay you see what I'm saying so not getting hit here it'll be hit because I still got two months or three months to get through the state process um so I get I'm looking at it is I would Grant a waiver on that based on knowing that they're going to go through that state process because of that 1.65 area uh 65 acre and it's the

same thing with the with the sewer with the with the sewer the sewer is is still has to go through the state so for and I still have to fill out the paperwork and then he's going to sign the plum inspector Allen's going to have to sign the permit so I can start the state process but he won't sign the permit until I pass this so it starts the process of the stay all over again so I can start that process so if if we did not give the waiver then you essentially couldn't even couldn't do it get started yet and honestly we want to open you know when we're opening in the spring we don't want all of our sites flooded and we understand that when it you know the rain comes it comes so we're totally on board with doing whatever needs to be done so that this we we fixed a lot of stuff over there we we we fixed the whole Main Road and put copper Dam's in that whole that whole thing when we first di just because it was so awful so

I don't want to B that stuff the um and I've said this to you before so don't take offense of this is trust but verify uh so you know things could happen down the road so um and I do the other thing I do want to clarify is when we're talking about start we're not it even if you get through the site plan review The Next Step at if this gets approved then we get to site planeview it get approved still can't start work without the D permit and this this is 2000 this is 200 25 or something like this before this is finished this is not it started hopefully not started but no I mean that's my point is you can't start without the yeah there's a bunch there's other things we need to get the state yeah we need to we need to get I didn't even do anything with the state yet so okay yeah it's a state licensed facility so it's not just really nearly this and I got you I just want to make sure that somebody doesn't misconstrue that uh

when you said you know we want to get started no that start on the next so it's so it's two two steps through the town but it's another step through the state so that's you got three-step process so stop we're starting that process step I so time wise if if a

waiver is granted and then you go through and you have an application to the is that that information must be presented back to the planning board I would think no not if you give site plan approved so how do we unless you make it a condition of approval that before any building permit could be or any other per septic permit or anything they would have to come back to the planning board what I'm getting I just want to make sure that all those requests to the state have been granted and everything's been verified you you wouldn't be able to get a state permit for the campground if unless you had all that stuff there they wouldn't they wouldn't issue you a it's a state licensed you know not licensed but a state facility so so we can't get where we need to start unless that's all approved anyways but yeah so the the I believe the the state yeah I was going to say the conditional use permit I believe it said

for with State approval or whatever too but that's they give it anyway so okay well I'm not sure maybe I misunderstood with the code enforcement you said the code enforcement guy said you can't file for D permit until you not it's not the EP permit it's the um it's the at200 for plumbing is what it was he has to sign off saying okay I got that all

right yeah um my challenge with the storm water approval plan is um that we recently did not approve a site plan for a project because they didn't get the D no was core of engineer permit it must have been was it a condition no we would no we we didn't approve the site plan until they got uh the core approval that was a subdivision but it was a sub yeah it was a subdivision it wasn't wasn't a campground so I mean that doesn't mean we have to use that same standard this time they have to they have to get it anyway they have to do it anyway so but they can't stop that process until they get through past us yes they can they can apply for their state permits right now they could have applied the D permit either the storm water or the septic there's nothing stopping them from applying to the state or make sure it passes the passes the town before I run to the state spend more money doing that

right that's a decision that you can make in well yeah money put your money down in there and see see how far you go you know yeah you say the state is going to require storm water yes permit yeah because it's over if you if you go over an acre of land land I believe even if it's flat land I believe over an acre you need a storm water permit you want to see it now well that's what we require you know we required with the other I'm I'm this is throwing it out there for discussion or Allan floated the idea of you have a condition of approval before the town per can be issued by the code officer or public work or whoever else has to issue permits they need to come back to the board and show the board that it has those state permits this board yep that's the way I would that would be my recommendation conditional approval y before the permit issued it's not stopping them from doing

those are all the waivers and other things so we need to go back I guess in a general discussion um do we feel that everything has been done on this uh to move on to site plan approval does that sound right make a determination of whether it's complete or incomplete yeah so thoughts and then

you want to hand out the uh the options when when you're we ready that there any other questions on individual no I'd like to see the options okay I think we're ready for since you emailed it I've you get to see them a day of to pass it down just just want to tell you the perks of uh being a chairperson you get to see him early thank you you some reading material at night right keeps me awake some nights yeah I'll just walk you down through them just to explaine okay so the first decision is whether to request an engineering peer review you've heard uh I pointed out three potential issues one would be uh whether DP storm water plan is required the applicant has pretty much conceded that that is required and they will do it so that may be moved second was again

asking for their opinion whether or not this requires an engineered site plan for the whole uh whole project uh based on their professional experience and then uh and that would look at whether those issues that you were bringing up John in terms of the separation of the water pipes and the sewer pipes the connections for those are there pump stations are going to be required based on the topography all of that engineering and then the third would be the field Che check on the site distances now that we've gotten clarification that there is 500 ft in either direction uh that hopefully satisfies that issue but you may may not want the peer reviewer to to check

that issue first I guess that's probably the easy one um da' did somebody just draw 500 ft on this or do they actually go off make sure there that you I'm talking about the site graphic scale we can just kind of check out well apparently Mainland confir I mean the engineer up that I mean he would have graphic probably somewhere no

going to have to if the engineer put these on there I'm okay with the fact he's put on 500t from the center line of it's inch I believe it's an inches of foot isn't it it's 300 there's 300 ft right there so he's there's 300t 600 plus okay and it's on so I'm okay with it's there I agree that one's checked I agree um so going to a you've agreed the applicants agreed that he requires a d storm water plan and permit base the amount of land disturbance so that's not something we need to determine because uh he's agreed he says yes he does uh the question is do we want to wave having it before we give them site plan approval I think and then with the construction of a road Network and semi-public water and sewer system to require a formal site plan with engineering design of the infrastructure and if I understand that what you said is you are whoever is going to do this for you the septic design will we'll design that

M correct with all the stuff that I talked about so then the question is do we wave it and make a conditional before getting a permit as George discussed have to come back once you got them in hand and can we have the code enforcement officer code officer doesn't uh inspect infrastructure projects if if there is inspections required we would go through the peer reer inspection yeah no I'm talking about the design the plan the engine no this is an engineered uh Wastewater system he will punt to the state he's going to do that but the question I thought we were asking one of the comments in here is do we want to ask to have the design for

that was what I was suggesting get input from goral Palmer who are engineers and they can look at the scope of the project and get give you qualified opinion of whether they think a engineered site plan is needed or not no I think he's agre the applicant has agreed to do that correct I mean what's

your 50 your that's a state that's right it's it's already you're looking for a copy is that what well they're going to get a copy anyway once it's done but yeah my question is what I'm hearing you say is you're going to have whoever your designer is design it you'll have plans yes the question is who they if we make it conditional upon the permit the the town permit actually the state permit the state permit so what you would do is if if you're comfortable with what they're proposing then you would basically Grant a waiver or make it a condition of approval that when they have to come back to you with the state storm water permit and I think they're also going to require erosion and sedimentation control plan and the Wastewater Disposal system design already approved and that Perman will probably specify what they have reviewed it may just be the septic system itself or it may be the whole

shooting match and that way you'd know what they actually reviewed and what the plans were that they approved I'll make that that would be the Allen's proposal of the condition of yeah I would I I definitely would recommend coming back with a conditional give this a conditional approval as long as they're coming back with the D storm water plan and also the uh site plan for engineering design of the infrastructure okay I agree with that so I'm looking to see if there's anything else that we need to okay so that was just on the issue of do you need a peer review it doesn't sound like you do I think that's fair of any issue okay so you can just that's my agreement okay okay so then we move to the uh possible motion 2A which is to Grant the waivers from the submission requirements of uh uh c112 for drainage ways c16 for Waste facilities uh 28 for erosion and sedimentation control and 29 for storm

water management if you go to the condition of approval to come back with the state permits for those items then you don't need to Grant any this would if we want to do this we would make a motion a motion to approve um to say that it has it's complete okay so actually uh yes that will be after the next one so on the issue of the waivers you can either decide that they don't need waivers for any of these things and you're not going to make it a condition of approval that they have to come back with those or you can vote to deny the waivers based on the requirements that they're saying they're going to have to meet so if you're not going to if you're going to require the condition of approval for them to come back you probably should deny the waivers because they'll be coming back for those things okay if you grant the waivers they don't have to come back okay so then that leads you to uh possible motion 3A which

is to determine that it's complete which sounds like the direction that you're moving in and then uh you would move on to the substantive review or if you feel uncom fortable you could make it incomplete and say come back when all the stuff has been

it's complete put conditions of approval or determine it's incomplete because you don't think that conditions of approval for those things are adequate and if we did we agreed that it was complete with conditions of approval the let's list out the conditions if that makes sense so what what are condition I conditions are we going to put on this what do we want them probably for that John if if you're going to uh do that I think we'll be moving through the uh findings for all of those things and we can you can discuss at that point when they come up do we need a condition of approval for that or not it's another option rather than trying to remember everything for which you might need a condition of approval to cover it okay but if we say it's complete yep can we then yes you could you're saying the application is complete enough for you to make a decision on the site plan on everything that they've

submitted and then as you go through all of these findings that I've prepared you can attach conditions of approval such as on the storm water on the Wastewater we are going to put a condition of approval that they have to come back this is on the site plan once we get to the next step is that what I'm asking yes once you go to the substantive review you can put on whatever conditions you think are appropriate so if we approve that it's complete determine that it's complete determine that it's complete yep then that doesn't they can't not that they would but we don't they we can still put conditions on we just they're not waiver us that's right all you're doing is you're saying you've got enough information to make a decision on this application if you determine it's complete if you determine it's complete all the other motions are moved does everybody understand

it is or is not complete I think that's what that's our two choices it either is complete or it is not complete do I have a motion I'll make a motion that uh the application is complete and a second a second okay it has been moved and seconded and additional um discussion there will be following conditions so yep well that's what I want to do we we don't want to say that here though that gotcha okay um so it moved in

seconded do no further discussion saying none uh raise your hand if you vote to approve it is unanimous 4 YY well check okay that's two out of three okay so I have prepared findings based on all the record uh as we go through these obviously what what you see on here is consistent with the agenda notes but there will there are some new items that were brought up tonight such as the clarification on the site distances so we can add those to these as findings as you go through these and then for each of these findings there will be the typical motion language in here for uh for it and then you'll all vote vote on each individual Criterion being met or not met and at that point you can add the

thought that this is going to need a condition of approval when we get to the end we can list what those conditions of approval are going to on the original I believe this is updated okay thanks in your court and thank you for the help with that last Mr thars uh did you want to make comments on site plan

good time to say that we've already talked about a lot of this stuff that we'll probably need to if we want to finish this tonight work through it or um I don't think the last thing we've got on picking a date is is going to take us all that long but we do do need to remember

hear okay so the first uh finding just lists all of the submissions uh and it goes right down through everything that we've talked about uh so then uh you just there are actually 22 different items including the waiver requests but it sounds like that is no longer uh being requested so uh you can make a decision motion whether they have or have not met the submission

that not the same thing as the completion uh well this is the site plan this is the findings of fact for the overall site plan review You've Already determined that the application is complete this is under the ordinance a requirement that they have all everything and uh this this Warr this indicates that they were requesting waiver so you probably want to vote to strike number 22 because that's no longer uh the waiver requests are off the table

then you'd go on and make a motion that they have met the submission requirement standards okay and Mark since since you're new and applicants are new so we'll vote on each of these individually that you say here so we'll make that motion we'll vote yay or nay um and so

we'll just go through those and if we as an example we feel they've given us everything that they were supposed to um then do I have a motion that it says that I will make a motion that the applicant has uh me the submission requirements site plan approval except

for uh item number 22 which is uh the waiver request that can be removed so your motion would have a period at the submission requirements for site plan approval period and we' line through accept those specifically waved right they put words in your mou under the find I I could read all the findings but I don't think we need to no I mean it'll be on record that the findings uh 1 through 21 would be included in that

and seconded uh any further if you approve recommend your vote for approval okay for nothing okay next one is the utilization of the site again I Rec I referred to the two foot contos on the plan uh the qualifier by the as consultants that they haven't done any engineering review or permitting uh that there is no narrative analysis uh constru how construction will conform to the existing topography uh that the applicant requested a waiver um and the applicant submitted an erosion control narrative those are the facts going into this uh

meeting okay so if I've understood the previous discussions on this one is it was where we would put in any conditions about uh condition upon approval of uh yes sanitary water yeah the design condition approval on that so I think you want to add another Finding number six based on tonight's testimony that a state storm water permit plan state storm water permit will be

which would be that the board will add a condition of approval requiring submission of that plan before permits are issued by the permit is required for storm water uh and that uh you will add a condition of approval on requiring the applicant to submit the permits from the state to the planning board prior to the town issuing any

talking about storm water [Music] uh so that takes care of that one where on one of these others we we will talk about uh adequacy of Road system vehicular access into but we'll talk about U environmental or something like so the the D approval is in this one but the

um sanitary the the septic system design will get covered where do the same thing when we get there okay we're not there yet okay any deleting six or five rather no that's still a fact so we have seven six that's part of your basis for for do and make it decision so we've added six and

that someone I will move site plan reflects natural capabilities site to support the development building and parking are located on suitable land environmentally sensitive portions of site have been avoided and protected and natural drainage is maintained to the maximum extent practical and include items one through five and add an additional one which would be State d storm water plan is

required and number seven would be a final plan will be submitted to the planning board before issuing any permits by the town by the town right yeah right do I have a second a second okay it's been moved and seconded um further

say permits and then say permits from State yeah with everybody um the only question I had I I said five when I really meant four before uh do we reference the fact that they at requested a waiver uh should we say somewhere that we didn't require it how do we want to we removed it from the previous vote

the W of requests but it's now here in this one number four on the motion you just made includes the applicant request a waiver of submission of a storm water management plan and so you can strike that one as well would you your motion the motion would be revised

three and ruming five as four and adding the additional of five and and six so we would strike the original number second Brian amended okay I sorry for not seeing that earlier so it has been moved and amended uh any further discussion and second

there if not I will call the vote of in favor for zip and then the two findings on the adequacy of the road system are that the state owned Road has adequate capacity to accommodate the traffic and it will not generate peak hour trips that raise concerns for Traffic

have confirmed the no that's on the access toite access to site okay thank you mhm I think when whenever we one of the requirements about Peak Road Trips that's usually uh town roads not state roads I would accept a share I will make a motion uh then we'll get back to Brian and and Mark um making notion that the

access road has the capacity to take and I would use have since its only Road uh has access road has the capacity to take the added traffic proposed and the project does not generate peak hour trips that affect Traffic Safety on those Road uh and then I'm not sure what traffic analysis for projects is more than 100 Peak Road Trips I would not use that one I I would agree because like I say that's so my my motion will stop reread it uh since I've been criticized in the past access road has has the capacity to take the added traffic proposed and the project does not generate peak hour trips that affect Traffic Safety on those roads a second okay moving seconded talet and Brian any further discussion if not all those in favor please raise your hand 4

standard is V vehicular access to the site and the facts up to to this meeting were that it has a posted speed limit on 136 of 50 mil hour there are vertical and horizontal curves on both approaches and the applicant submitted a do diagram uh with a disclaimer and provided no safe sight distances and that is incorrect so we'll want to add or substitute uh strike four and add a new four which would be that the site distances are 500 ft as determined by Mainland consultants and then finally the board members did Express concerns with the safety of the exiting and entering large

get the discussion started um can we just leave number four uh and just and say the applicant has provided a safe site distant measurement by qualified professional doting that uh site distances are adequate at the project entrance yes substitute that in take just delete no yep and then

if we we we did talk about that but does that if we say we are we are concerned MH and somebody gets killed why do they come back and say why did you approve it then because you got an engineer to determine that there's there are adequate safe sight sight distances and that's all you can

I guess just this is probably chicken but I would I would uh put that before what is I'd make number five number four number four number five yep that says okay we did we did talk about safety distances and they answered the the question and Y as part of that we required them to get safe distances and they've done that got

on this one you guys make motions in a second but since I changed everything around uh I will make the motion that the project entrances meet safe site distances and are appropriately spaced to meet Traffic Safety standards at the findings of the uh existing project entance located on Route 136 which has opposed to speed speed limit of 50 miles per hour there are vertical and horizontal curves of both approaches to the project approaches the project ENT interest the applicant submitted main Department of Transportation General diagram of De Leisure Campground with disclaimer on liability for injuries of Damages data 12223 uh board members Express concern with the safety of entering and aing the site with large RVs and finally the C applicant has provided a safe site distance measurement by a qualified professional documenting that site distances are adequate at the project entrance period

motion okay it's been moved a second any further discussion seeing none uh do we have a vote we do have I'm sorry please vote we have a vote 4 Z internal vehicular circulation Brian I'll let you take this one um this is where we make it a condition for the storm water plan the D permit the storm water

plan uh yes is it or is it park I think this is the one because it's the road construction and the utilities are going to cause the concerns I'm just looking to see if there's another place to put that in the storm water piece I don't think so bear with us so I think yes so seven seven

number nine that the uh the board will add a condition requiring uh the storm water permit to be submitted prior to the issuance of any Town utilization of the that yeah I we put it twice but for this one it'll satisfy this Criterion so I think if you put it twice it's appropriate never do it too many times okay so I'm sorry George interrupted you would you yeah so it would be that the board is going to re apply a condition of approval requiring the applicant to submit the state permits before any Town permits are

limit signs just okay all that um da can we put in the findings that the applicant has on their whatever date of the existing dis plan added additional signage stop signs and what else did you add well I think that's what these are referring to the stop signs and the five uh mile per hour

speed limit signs were added by the applicant since your last review okay so I think they're covered Al is covered and then I had another brilliant thought uh a condition of approval on um site numbering and Direction you understand what we're saying I do I've seen it at Campground there there is a signage yes signage the signage no it could be e but signage might be better as long as we add it in that place yep the new guy corrected me

the board will require will do a condition of approval requiring the applicant to submit state permits before the town permits are parts of make a motion I'll make a motion thank you sir the site plan minimizes cut and fill alterations and provides adequate room for safe operations the entrance and circulation are adequate for the types of vehicles anticipated and fire Lanes around buildings are adequate and clearly marked second it's been moved and second it further discussion seeing none please raise your hand if you approve vote to approve all right parking layout and

all the parking for this RV sites is going to be on the RV sites for the expanded the discussion we're on number Echo parking layout and proposed parking this is on uh let's see what are we talking about e parking layout and design proposed parking meets the design standards for

setback aisles and parking spaces signage prevention of damage to lighting and Landscaping and for safe pedestrian access second second moved and seconded any further your hand to approve four nothing and on you utilities that's where I think the other condition really Bears down which is uh so I describe the existing condition plans what it has on it um and the uh applicants submitted

proposal for engineering designs as well as his testimony tonight that they're going to have to do that so a condition on this one would be that uh we've been talking about storm water in the past but use the same verbage for the uh sanitary or the yeah sewer system but a condition approval that applicant will submit State approvals for sanitary system is that what it's called septic system me the full septic system lines the whole nine yards engineered system yeah engineer full engineered system and and Engineering designed for the Wastewater system right they're saying that's going to be required for the state yes that would that would be a condition of

out for us what you're writing there condition of approval for state permits and engineering design designed for the system to be submitted to the planning board prior to the issuance of town permits okay CRA is going to make that motion hopefully got it uh number two the applicant number two under those findings

unsigned proposal but no engineering design house is provided for other utilities but number three is they will provide it before permit granted motion make a motion that adequate utilities are provided and placed under the ground and adequately

condition of the George red off yeah okay so all of that plus the condition do we have a second second it's been moved and seconded do if any further discussion if not if you vote to approve please raise your going to be your is Mark lighting design standards any

provided in the earlier I do remember that so whatever it was the first one we did conditional whatever it was okay do we have any comments if not I will accept a motion I will make a motion that the lightning plan provides

adequate illumination meeting ordinance limitations and preventing glare from creating a nuisance for abutters or public second we have been moved in second and any further approve raise a hand for findings on this and in terms of what you're looking at I think we do I think we'd like to add a finding that where it said or either delete number one because he did he did put signs on the plan well again the section 5.24

talks about the sizes of signs and locations of signs which go beyond the limited information they' provided but given that this is all internal signage you may be fine with that and also you saw the signs that are out there what they've described doing so I don't think there are any issues in terms of any of these signs not meeting the limitations of the section 5.24 so what we could do is a number two it say okay the applicant did Prov provide a plan showing the location of additional stop uh and speed limit signs so what you would do is find that the uh the sign information submitted by the applicant is adequate to determine that there would be no violations of the sign uh regulations in 5.24 much better

that anybody write that down and would like a motion with that last night I would think that we also need to add add lot logical numbering to quickly locate Lots in case of emergency and approved by the fire here Andor the next one is fire but if we want if we want to do it okay so is signage okay signage it is so number two George would you read number two again so we can write it down and make a

okay so two was the sign information submitted is uh adequate to determine that there is compliance with 5.24 and then three would be the site numbering is to be re uh renumbered per yeah review and approval by the fire chief and I will brief him on this discussion Prima so you want to read that one for the motion y so the site numbering is to be re numbered per a review by the fire

chief for safety to be approved by Chief for safety got the app application provides No Deal inform design as it shows there no detail design information the proposed signage to verify compliance with uh section 5.24 uh the signage information provided is adequate is that what we said yes for number two number three three is the site numbering is to be approved by uh fire chief for safety purposes prior to

there okay since I'm reading I'll just go ahead and finish this one um so the M I'll make the motion that all signs meet do not meet the requirements of do meet don't okay we can leave that as that do we want to make a condition of approval um yes number three is going to be a condition okay the number three is a condition that's my ask so with the findings the application provides no detailed design information on the proposed signage to verify compliance with section 5.24 for number two the signage information provided is adequate number three the site spelled correctly numbering is to be approved by fire chief uh numbering how about if I I'm going to change that and add one more word the site numbering plan is to be approved by fire chief for safety purpose prior to town permits and the applicate knows what we're looking for that one that's been moved by talet second moved and seconded

any further discussion seeing none please raise your hand if you protection so the applicant is proposing to put a 2,000 gallon water uh storage tank the fire chief has said that that is wanted them I'm sorry I started a discussion that is just one and it is on the print where I showed them where it was it's like

you going to use thank you if you have to abely right okay hookups to your tank I got you we I I told him just throw it in the pool it's 25,000 gallons over there they'll probably do both yeah he says if it's well we'll have one on the other if it's snowing depends what time of year but you're not going to be eat it [Laughter] now Okay so we've got to find do I have a I will make a motion that the water supply will sustain fire suppression requirements on of NFPA 1142 water supplies for suburban

and Rural firefighting which will include the findings of the existing condition plan shows a conceptual location for a 2,000g water storage tank and the applicant has stated that fire department hookups will be provided and number two under the findings the fire chiefs has indicated that the proposed water supply is adequate for fighting fire purposes um we have a motion a second second uh Mark seconded any further

discussion seeing none please raise your hand if you vote to approve for zip thank you General buffering I guess there there are no concerns as for buffering for any adjoining property owner that you know it doesn't look like that you're looking to exceed come up to I

don't know how many feet are you away from enjoing butter the butters 500 feet 500t so it's not an issue and I think the those who attended the neighbors had no issues I remember when we're walking through the woods there okay any other can I get a motion to that effect I'll make a motion that the applicants Landscaping plan adequately buffers abutters in the public from views of parking garbage storage utilities and outdoor storage and is designed for adequate long-term maintenance oh second second interesting

what what's what's the uh garbage storage it's a dumpster okay yeah we it's up in the park right it's not on the street no it's the top it's right by the parking lot where you guys came in to the pool it's right by the pool to the left as they go out they can throw their trash what what size is it is it I think it's a six yard okay the big one and you have a private you have a contract that's sell somebody comes get and when there's more trash we just have them come more yeah have that hanging around in July July for very long no not

at all um do I have a motion or do we have a motion we have a motion I lose track all right uh if you vote to approve please raise your hand was there a second yes yes there was for zip yes for zip historic and architect archaeological resources okay I think if you just flip one and two then you've got the original stating that they were going to issue a letter and then the Kirk Mahoney stamp is the letter one becomes two two becomes

one okay uh any work for you well you know it may seem like Overkill nice job though no I'm not complaining I'm just for you on the board one one thing for you on the board is that the issue is if you if they don't apply this to you yeah then there's a problem when they are a project where it does make a difference yeah yeah no it's good and we have nothing else to do this evening um okay historic do I have a motion on historic and archaeological I make a motion that there are no no historic or archaeological resources on the site that would be affected by the Project's development second I moved and by Brian seconded by Allen uh further

discussion if not please raise a hand to vote for approval Financial capacity so I just uh indicated from the conditional use application his information on how much it's going to cost how much they have with bank letter verifying but they have not submitted any engineering based costs so you may want to put down on there the condition of approval that they have to get the state approvals which will give some of those

approvals we've already asked concerned at that point whether they have the adequate Financial capacity to do this project once you see should that be accompanied by an engineering cost estimate which they will probably get anyway just for your bidding purposes or

of estimate from contractors uh the way yeah we are but I don't want to that to be a condition of use I got to you know is that what we're doing now is a condition usage right it would be I have to I'd rather not do that you know I mean we went from you know 209

sites down to 40 so it's a little bit different so the bank approval refresh my memory was for 40 or 209 209 yeah yeah uh and these and these were cash accounts these weren't this is Bank this is money that we have not including whatever whatever but you're not conditioning on winning the lottery yeah I mean it's a lot sitting around doing nothing I can tell you that right now I would certainly think that based on what the Bango savs bank has stated in the amount there 635,000 and that was based on the original sites and it's been reduced I would think that would more than cover for their uh engineering base cost

estimates any other thoughts I mean I would agree with that okay having said that uh can I get a let's see and George you recommended I think we've already done that that the um do we need to say again that we need to see the plans well the only reason you would think about adding it here is to verify that you have determined that they have adequate Financial capacity one indication of that will be the issuance of the state permits I think we see is that because the the state will require Financial capacity I don't think so not necessarily but at least you will have an indication that this is going to be a properly designed

or you can just not put anything in there yeah we'll get proof of the design right prior to getting the um Town permit apologies for that problem say that again I'm sorry I shutting my phone off yeah the is issuance of the state permits is not going to address Financial capacity right okay I'm good with the fact that bank said they got 675 and it's a smaller

original lot 209 209 and it was reduced down to 40 right yeah was reduced down to like 100 and something and then it was just Au 40 so we're fine with that yeah go big a go home so I I would think under under two when it says the uh deposit accounts

in excess of 675,000 based on 209 Lots which has been reduced to thoughts I'm okay with that reading it it justifies the the financial coverage I would agree just a suggestion that may fit better on number one then number two I was just thinking that same thing number two is what they have in the bank number one is the project cost okay that's so add that caveat of it's been reduced down in number one where the project estimate for the original was

a shot at that um motion please no okay Mark you take a shot of the applicant under the findings the applicant stated during the conditional use review the project is estimated to cost 700,000 plus or minus and the project will be financed from personal savings the original 700,000 was based on 209 units which has now been reduced

to that adjustment there and the applicant uh does have adequate Financial Resources to con improvements and keeping with the standards second it's been moved and seconded any further discussion seeing none uh please raise a hand to approve 4

ability so he submitted the existing conditions plan with the layout uh that has not been through any engineering design review uh you receive no direct input from qualified professionals on this project and so the question is are you satisfied with the presentation or not those are facts last one uh but I

think uh conditions of approval may or may not address that yeah the well I would like a statement that said because we are we are going to see the missing stuff so then that would be number four which is the planing board condition of

permits with the design prior to uh isurance of town board will review prior to they say review because we're not really going to look at the engineering plans per se they're going to submit them yeah but are we going to what I say review it's like just they just required to submit those okay so if I say planning board reviews uh plans prior to issuing to uh

allowing issu or issuing Town permits is that what you yeah well on all of these I'll draft some language based on what we've discussed and what you've decided okay and I'll circulate that to the board like I did for the conditional use permit and you can comment on it everybody okay with that so we're not motioning on this one yes you are making a condition of approval the same as the others for the permits and the designs to be submitted to TW y to correct my

look at that if we disagree with it we won't what do we actually sign on these things George we the end of the day yeah at the end of the at the end of the day this is going to be converted into a notice of decision giving the approval if you vote that way and then we will attach these findings and the votes on each of the individual findings okay now one of the issues for having a site plan is the ordinance talks about the planning board signs it there is a signature block for the planning board if you're comfortable with this existing conditions plan being the site plan so you will sign this plan if you're satisfied so the the hangup has kind of been the term existing conditions plan yeah if we were if we were to make it conditional on changing that to site plan would that eliminate that concern it's a legitimate concern it is but it sounds like you're satisfied that this is an adequate site

plan so um I guess you could require them to change change that name change it to a site plan title and then when it comes back with the other documents you can sign it that would be my thought because you you've got to you have to take your your guy here has to take draft off of it so if he could also change existing condition plans to site plan that would I suspect check a block for

that yeah I guess we can go through that again well he's no all he does is he's got to take draft off oh yeah and then so that's a relatively simple change to $500 take that old word off of that but that's okay you probably get some white oh my gosh you do it's nothing's free that's okay here's what it is never is is it just just the a breathe okay so have

we uh uh do we have a motion on Tech we pass technical no it's still on technical ability are we not we we are okay so I need a motion on Tech ability I make a motion that the applicant has experience with site development and has retained qualified consultants and contractors to complete the project in keeping with the

standards now second second it okay so it's been moved a seconded any further discussion what was it number four is it state permits yeah is the four is the uh prior to any permits by the town they've got to bring they've got to submit to the planning board the state permits and the design and then five would be you want the existing conditions plan to be revised to correct to sure that way nobody forgets it yes so five would be revise the existing conditions plan to be uh meet the site plan

change wording right clean clean it up that's what I was asking yes I'm to be listed on that plan also once we get to that end usually they are uh should they be state law for subdivisions requires you to put the conditions on the plan but not site plan well the great thing about that when that happens is it's sometimes it's easier to look at a plan which has all the information on it that you want versus oh where the all the votes

that we had I I don't know either way it's up to you that's a good we have did our site plans have required that in the pl in the past and the advantage to doing that I realize it's it's a little more work is that it's there so 10 years from now somebody comes along it's it's been done so we need to make sure that we've we have a we have a list of conditional conditions correct right yeah we'll do that so you would actually include that in number five to revise the existing conditions plan to meet the site plan requirements and list the coas the conditions of approval on the print on the print I I would you know since you going to revise it anyway you wouldn't think I'm just they can just copy and paste from one of those I've looked at some of these plans that were done 10 years ago believe me it's much easier looking on one piece of paper versus okay where are all both cuz something's missing sure yeah I mean

quite drizly that's when you go to sell this when it goes to more likely can't afford to sell that when your children when somebody inherits it that's right when you go home tonight and and uh do whatever um you don't have to worry about what were our conditions of approval and to make it easier for actually for your state inspector and everybody else if it's all there so yes so you want to make a a motion to that effect Allan well on under the part where it's

additional uh addition to the existing plan to be revised to include all condition conditional uses conditions of approval conditions of here since I wrote took the time to write it down um so I will make a motion the applicant has the experience with site development and had Endor has retained qualified consultants and contractors to complete the project in comp keeping with the standards and

provided here in adding planning board will uh revie will reviews uh state and local state permits prior to issuing Town permits is that close to what we wanted yep Mr chair me we already had a motion on the floor and it hadn't been voted on so I would think we should ret we should retract that initial withdraw my motion there we go okay it's been withdrawn you want to try it again or should I make another you're right we got to otherwise somebody be sitting there talking about Bailey's Rules of Order or whatever uh the applicant submitted an existing okay findings the applicant has the experiened with stfe development and has retained qualified consultants and contractors to complete the project in keeping with the standards with the findings one through three as typed here and uh number four the planning board will review uh plans and state approvals prior to issuing Town plan uh permits

and then number five the revised existing conditions plan to say site plan and include conditions of approval is that close enough does that get it second it's moved and seconded uh any further discussion please raise a hand to approve 4 Z we have no waivers correct correct okay waivers of performance standards no waivers we have no we have no waivers and so then we could jump right to conditions of approval and the one condition of approval that you have discussed uh which will apply to most of these was the uh requirement for the

state permits and design to be submitted uh the other conditions that you have talked about include the sign information we should just start right back and go down through them so COA uh so I'm sorry you're on the very last thing on page 10 of what you gave us motion made by so oh waiver is a performance D yeah I don't I didn't have a a a separate thing for conditions of approval but we can just add them on the end performance standards is that what you're saying no no I'm saying just forget everything under after waivers right and we're going to jump to page 10 and at the bottom we're going to have a decision with draft conditions of approval we're going to figure out what those are are going down through the list right now okay okay good all right so if we go back and make sure I don't miss any uh that'd be awful the first one was uh on page three

which was the first time that we mentioned the state permits being submitted uh that was number seven on the on the revised motion uh so the state permits repeated multiple times multiple times you only need it once on the conditions of approval okay um then the next

one bottom for the signage I've got one of five page five which one what is it uh it is internal V vehicular circulation number nine condition approval that applicant will submit State approvals we repeated is that that's what I was saying yep jump we only need to put that once at the end y we got that one that's good make sure we don't miss any than [Laughter] Ken um so the next signage the next

distinguish one is under signage there were two there which is the uh information to be submitted uh for no I'm sorry it's just number three which is the site numbering and review review by the fire revised yeah and then on page the revisions to the site plan with the and adding the conditions of

three okay so would you read them off yeah the first one is the the UN Universal requirement for the state permits to be submitted to the planning board with engineering designs prior to the issuance of any Town Town approvals or permits George do we need to spell out each one of those there's storm water there's yes we've already mentioned them going down through I'm just summarizing them so I will send you a draft early next week which gives the specific wording and you can make sure that it's included okay y I'll give you the the total one which should cover all of them and then the second condition of approval okay hold on just second I just want to if I got to make this I want to make sure engineering design prior to permits yeah permit state permit issuance with the engineering designs of the Wastewater system okay okay the second one is the signage revisions which deals with the uh

numbering uh and getting that reviewed by the fire chief for safety yep I'm sorry is the revisions for the existing conditions plan to re uh State as a site plan eliminate the draft and then to uh add the conditions of approval which would just be these

this if everybody's okay with it so motion made by the applicant has provided documentation based on sound engineering Endor environmental analysis the following standards can be weighed for the proposed you want to say w no just I would just say the you uh move to approve uh to Grant site plan approval based on the findings of fact and conditions uh of approval I getting excited

documentation based on Sound Engineering and or environmental analysis and no you want any of that we're not doing anything to do with waiters get rid of that D so you're going to move to give site plan approval based on the findings of

fact and with the three conditions of that draft for you okay but I didn't know where this was going to end no this is a book and a half just it oh my below all right I make a motion that we give site plan approval based on findings of fact and conditions of approval as stated below and then you'll list the three findings of fact or the three conditions of approval or three conditions of approval thank you second been moved and

seconded any other discussion none okay seeing none uh if you approve vote to approve please raise a hand passes 40 congratulations okay you thank you for your patience and wish you great Su I guess we'll see you one more time yeah so a couple of things you know you can speed up the process by working with the code guy get the chief you know started to get your site uh site plan into the chief y thank you all for your we just we have one more it we just need to know when full part going be have that don't off the

dock I don't think a to girl can handle in speed so go okay yes just start working on getting all that stuff together folks you we'll get you back on so do they have to they have to meet the two weeks before a meeting yes okay I we won't have that stuff Stak well I guess so I guess you've got enough to get started with codes and other folks based on what we approved tonight yeah I should be able to get that PL stuff going I appreciate it all right thanks thank you so much okay I think we are on to Juliet if you would like

think the next thing thank you all for going through that um I think the next thing we've approved minut the next thing on the agenda is what's a good day to meet about uh land use and as George said earlier uh all three we should be forwarded to us shortly by the um selectman select board and so our job is

to have a public hearing uh a formal public hearing and so it's not discussion as much and kind of since people are maybe listening on TV just kind of a reminder that that once we get it back from the select board there's not really room for changes so what we're doing is holding formal hearing as partially to get the information out there partially for people to uh comment

on it and I suppose prepare for the uh the town meeting so uh we won't Vote or do anything else because that's it's it's going on the warrant warrant what we see from the select board will be on the the town warrant so what are we what's the potential on our next regular monthly schedule okay we do have two site plans coming in uh one is for a similar project to the one that you did tonight where you have an existing business that is uh doing an expanding adding a building so we're going to get into the same discussion of what do they need to submit for this uh so that is for a commercial building on an existing uh business expansion so actually be two parts of that conditional use for the expansion and then site plan review for the construction of the new building and then CMP is is going to be filing for the March meeting a uh site plan a conditional use permit application a site plan application and a Shoreland

zoning permit application to do major work on the power line pole replacement project the reason I asked that I didn't know whether we could fit into that that was a great idea but I think public hearing I think we probably need to plan we'll try to keep it going that's probably a twoh hour yeah uh event sorry on that note CMP has to go through US y because they Crossing shorel Zone and resource protection got it that'll be an interesting anyways okay yeah and how many loyers do they bring you'll have a complete package I guarantee you that yes we'll also have to review what we can and can't say to them well no like yeah what parts of the project are fair game yeah only the areas within resource protection and Shoreland zoning right and they understand that yeah yeah yeah they do so they're going to prepare you you'll get a complete you get a lot more information than you want to review and then I think I don't know if

it's a concern or challenge or whatever uh it is a local business that will be coming in on the second one so they may be discussion about why do I have to provide that information so that may take a while as well plus it's it's like this one there's multiple things that have to so one issue to get the heads up on is okay are you going to deal with it whichever one submits first they get reviewed first yeah yeah okay as opposed to this small town project should be reviewed before this big state CMP project we're not going through the entire like well you know both both may take the amount of time same amount of time and the local one may take more time as we just experienced yeah I I so whichever comes in first yeah I think that's only fair I think it's a surprise to local people as to the process yeah and I think that's something we can Workshop or do down the road is someone's just going to be

experienced which is you know if it's required in there give it to us you know we've C we've had a couple of applications now we're I've never provided that before I don't and some some are are small times some are Professional Engineers with the same thing I mean I think with time people you know you can't half step when you go before the dur planning board we just need to put put an end to that concept so what are our options to be deadline the 13th the is the two Wednesdays is a possibility for this room which I think we need to do somewhere where we could be tell vised and all that other stuff so March 13th and March 20th those are Wednesdays either either one both work for me yeah same one okay 13th yeah okay March 13th

uh be here 6:30 fire station uh public hearing George you want me to tell the the town clerks Etc to to book this yep 6:30 6:30 p.m. here at the fire station I would think you know part of it is um in the we can have a discussion but we don't necessarily need to have an argument we're not you can't change can't we've been there done that looked at this if you want to argue that or fight it prepare for the town hall meeting right and if if you're very supportive of it prepare for the town hall meeting well we because we had other public meetings on it we've been there done that they've had that that was a time to F tun it people have yes but I think part of it is it's not just the uh you know going through the formality it is an opportunity to explain in more detail than you will at the town meeting so we can get into the details of this with members of the public so that when they get to the town

meeting they're informed on what they're voting on so even though you yeah but even though you can't make changes to it it is important to have this opportunity and then they can ask questions and Y and we can answer questions on it or and hopefully they won't have have as many questions at the on the floor of the town meeting if they have this opportunity now many people won't participate so we'll still be there but if you cut down on that that helps the process there's many people that come into the town meeting and that's the first time theyve seen anything it's all that's the frustrating that is exactly you know no matter it is a challenge I mean we can do what we can do but you know there may be 10 people here that night and 150 or something at 250 at the

to yeah you're dreaming the top yeah 250 at the prob we I counted last time it was uh we can adjourn here shortly but I think there was 147 yeses and and two NOS no there was two no there two more that was the resource resource protection was it wasn't that close but it was over 200 the last one they used there used to be a lot lodger attendance when it was all school was included in it yeah anyway that's all do we want to consider asking the consc already did they're going to have they'll have they'll have a rep here oh good okay well I just I told them 10A believe at 13th and I think they'll have somebody here either day great either night so all right ladies and gentlemen 13 6:30 fire station motion to adjourn I'll make that motion second second raise your hand if you want to go home it is approved right thank you George please turn your microphones off you have to hold the button down in front until the light

goes off thanks I appreciate the hard work