TranscriptCapital Improvement Committee Meeting ~ October 25, 2023

waiting for Peter you might want to wait a few minutes I'm not but you give me the heads up when yeah a couple minutes because there's usually a delay in the mic and the things so if P shows to our group yes I'm Jill nice to meet you Michelle hi Michelle nice to meet you nice to meet you

is or will no yeah that's uh part of the purpose of tonight's meeting is to come up with our [Music] should be y welcome everyone to the first meeting of the uh 2 budget 2024 CIP process um I'm Paul first and I'm surrounded here by our other committee members and I'll let them introduce themselves um before I do that though I'll just mention to those that are watching and are not familiar with the CIP process or don't know what CIP is

uh CIP is the cap the town's Capital Improvement program and the purpose of the program is to provide a process by which we can prioritize Our Town Capital expenditures as well as begin saving for them um and by Capital expenditures I'm referring to vehicles uh Renovations of buildings those types of things Capital expenses over $10,000 okay so with that said if we could uh introduce our committee members and uh I'll start Joe would you like to of course everybody knows Joe I'm Joe Tom 118 to drive Michelle R David Lewis

Drive Jill Gast on gay stack Road we're very pleased to have Jill here this evening uh Jill is our newest Committee Member um we're also missing one other Committee Member here this even hopefully he'll he'll join us in process but Jill also sits on the budget committee and um it's wonderful to have some uh cross-pollination between the two committees so we're really happy to have you here thank you for coming all right um so I think the first order of business tonight I think the um you know the focus of tonight's meeting is going to be the application materials that um the department heads and the town manager have put together for us and um we're going to go we're going to go through those materials in just a few minutes here and then we'll um do some scheduling for our future meetings but before we do that let's dispense of any other administrative business that we need to dispense of and

the only thing really that's on my RAR is the election of the chair and the vice chair um so do we uh is there a discussion or would someone like to make a motion to uh elect a chairman for this next year well pa still good with it I would elect Paul to be

comment and that is I'm I'm certainly willing to do with this year and I'm really pleased that uh Jerry has really taken some ownership I think in around the CIP process we've met a couple of times so it's great to have a town manager that's being uh proactive and thinking about how we might simplify the process how we might streamline it and also make it more useful for us thank you Jerry and and I I'd like to uh I'm certainly willing to serve this year and uh hopefully help to get some of those things underway and at some point I'm hoping to step back let someone else take over um but I'm I'm happy to serve this year if elected okay so all those in favor all right all all those

opposed and so the motion carries three to vice chair do we have nominations for a vice chair Joe wants to continue nobody else does yeah I think Joe is you know he's also serving in some pretty big roles probably I'd probably make a motion that um Michelle be will to see how it works I'll second

that all right there we go and P [Laughter] perfect also uh please let the record show that uh Peter Jabo just joined us at 608 um okay so the motion has been made and seconded for Michelle to serve as Vice chair any favor okay all those opposed so the motion carries four to

I'd like to uh turn things over to Jerry and for him to walk us through what he's put together tonight he's passed out packets to us Jerry Thank you Mr chairman yeah what you'll see uh before you and I'm the town manager for you folks out that might be listening or watching and name is Jerry Douglas so what I've given you today is all of the request and all the materials that are pertinent to the CIP process so on the right hand side of your packet is all of the request that the department heads have uh filled out for the 2024 uh

fiscal year so those are your request on the left hand side which I'm pretty excited excited about is cu last year we we had issues with what we had um amounts for Reserve accounts um and I'm happy to tell you that we got that nailed down and that's what you're going to see on the leth hand side of your per packet it's this right here and there's more really information in here that you folks are going to talk about it's just the way it's been organized so there's a lot of there's a lot of financial information in there like you're not going to be talking about Grant match funding and you know and that sort of stuff but it's all in there um for you and that we can go and if you have questions about that as you go down we I can answer those for you and you also have the very first page is what we got remaining in arpa funds okay so you have all of your information in there I've included the the policy too that was

written um some of it's good this was written a while ago some of it's some of it's not like it includes a pavement plan in here but that's not Capital Paving is in our operational budget it's not in the capital so you don't you're not going to see that in this in this process because that's where that is so we only have three requests well there there are multiple requests for each pack for for each uh department so the I think the fire department has two and the uh Public Works has uh three I think and then Administration has a a few in there what you also have is just the the inventory equipment inventory for both fire and public works and their replacement schedules um that should pretty much get you started um in in this process so it's all right here in this little handy dandy portfolio I put together for you um and now it's just time to get to

work um should we start with the replacement introduce the replacement schedules for us and go over those with us Jerry sure so the replacement schedule we'll do the fire department first yeah um the replacement schedule's the second page yeah maybe we just take it Department by Department that's probably the way to go okay okay so what you'll see in the fire department you know they've got like one two three four five like six different pieces of equipment um on the left hand side those are the year that they're um they looking to replace them what the new cost is uh today when that was last purchased and what the life expectancy of those pieces of equipment are okay so the referred pumper truck engine 21 a new cost is 150 the last purchase was 2004 and he's looking to replace it in 2029 so that's how you read that right down through the so we don't have anything coming up from the fire department until 27 right as far as

equipment that's exactly right balance of the fire reserve yeah that's going to be in this it's today is 142 14 was uh that funds were appropriated for for this year yes this fiscal year so the uh the the uh diesel fume uh filtration system yep that's been installed and that's all done yep yep and the generator too yes okay wonderful and believe so the um

the expenditures for the um exhaust I believe was an oper because it's not showing here okay so that's a different uh I see yeah so as far as the reserve accounts and oper they're two separate so what about the um the Quint so the refurbishing of

the Quint y has that been done that has not been done and that's an oper that's coming out of the oper also so that's obligated under oper that has not been done oper funds the account balance is the very first page but they came to us as part of the CIP process and that's that's why I was asking you know that was one of the projects we ranked both of those projects we ranked them last year correct so um um when is that when's that scheduled to be done or that's a question for chief when for the chief because I'm not up on his side okay complete Scot yeah and I'm just trying to hit a few high points here to kind of get us

the oper funds and the remaining funds the the very last section of that first page okay so article six for a one ton plow truck that was the remaining appropriation left after the truck was purchased okay so the Quint article 7 that hasn't been spent yet so it's still remaining appropriation the tax map is 4,000 okay

when we did the tax maps so if if the one ton plow truck is all done if Calvin is done outfitting that truck you can pretty much take that um 45,000 that's unappropriated and add the 3,000 to it I've talked to Calvin I'm pretty sure he's done outfitting the truck so it it would be that one time it would be the remaining 3,000 and the 45,000 that you would have to add together uh to get the full um balance of it would be 48 close to 49,000 left

same with the tax maps nope that tax maps has been done but with the tax maps they um that 4,000 is for two years of updates so that's why it hasn't been appropriated yet or or spent it's appropriate but it hasn't been spent okay I see so um that money is

basically spent yeah it's obligated it's all obligated exactly that's correct okay great um any other initial questions on fire and rescue and I think you know one of the questions we want to think about is would we you know would we like the chief to come and talk with us uh to

answer questions usually how we've handle questions in the past is um everyone has gone home after the first meeting and considered looked over the materials because you know we often get things at the first meeting um look over the materials and then see if we have specific questions and then if we have specific questions you guys usually send them to me I coate them and I send them on to Jerry for the department heads and so that they can see their questions before they come and talk with us um I don't know if you guys would like to proceed the same way this year process doing okay work out well yeah okay sounds good um [Music] so um do we think I mean I know we haven't had a chance to look at this closely but do we think that we we'd like to see the chief at the meeting I thought was nice having you to through all our questions great give us an update on where things stand for example on the Quint yeah I

would if we end up not sending you any questions for the fire department then yeah we would excuse them and not request that he comes yeah yeah yeah yeah can't imagine there wouldn't be any questions on yeah exactly I think that sounds fair and what I will ask is that I receive questions by you know I don't know like middle of next week let's say you know does that sound good Jerry I you know I know that I uh I'm sensitive to the fact that you want to get things done MH here right sooner the I would like to wrap up this process by the end of November yeah and we've got Thanksgiving you got thanks in there and the second meeting I would like to bring in our financial advisor okay so you can see the capital the way it looks when you plug in these numbers with all of the the equipment we have 10 to 15 years out what that looks like as far as what needs to be uh put aside oh yeah okay so that's kind of an extra meeting well I

think I think it's a very valuable meeting it is a it is a valuable meeting and I think it I mean there's not a lot of request here so I think that can be combined with a meeting when you're going to ask questions of the chief or or or me or okay or public I think we can do you think we can do it all together I think once you see the presentation I think it may reformulate maybe some of the questions you have that's why I think it's important uh okay you know you'll have questions prior to seeing that his presentation on his his Capital planning but I think that may spark other questions yeah to to to the department heads and myself which I think is going to be important okay well I'm going to request that the committee members send me their questions by end of the day on Tuesday this next Tuesday if that's acceptable you know if that works for everyone they'll give us the weekend in a day or so and then I'll I'll try to

turn them right um so I think that should take it for at least initially for fire and rescue okay so oh oh what about okay no request yeah public works so the replacement schedule for public works it's the um it's the first page

his they kind of they kind of did it differently but the First Column is when he pled PL on replacing uh what he's got in for equipment to replace so 2024 he's looking to replace his pickup the year he bought it was 2014 it's 10 we're getting it into 10 years old and that's how you read that right down so left-and column replacement year cost new the next column is when it was last purchased next column what the life expectancy of that vehicle is or that piece of equipment so we've got the the pickup what's RC says GMC pickup slrc

Road commissioner oh okay um and the equipment trailer and the equipment trailer what we've got coming up bed okay 2015 probably get some pretty heavy duty use yeah yeah I don't know he's got it on his 10year life expectancy uhhuh so there's your 10 15 to 25 this is 10 years T dump truck of plow the following year

entities where they use a lot of the equipment you know when you're plowing snow and moving gravel and doing that year really does he like you know label his trucks like I don't know what does it say in the vehicle schedule he does inventory does he he gives him numbers right yeah I believe he does I don't know if he's included in this oh it oh okay that's yeah that's his inventory oh I see tells you what the milees is in the hours and that sort of thing too yeah

two back to back he's got two dump trucks back to back in 26 and 27 yeah wow and then the next year after that the loader and the year after that the back yeah when when you talk to Calvin or when I talk to Calvin of you asking questions when Public Works um was born here in Durham a lot of equipment was AB at the same time yeah and that's we that's where you're kind of why you're seeing that the idea I think is where we want to go is to spread out that spread it out yeah but you know at the same time we don't want to be without it either it's it's one of those you know juggling acts that you all have to that you all have to talk about you don't want it to get too old where it's breaking down like a plow truck and it's always in the garage when they need it out there plow so so it's pretty much starting in 26 he's got a major piece of equipment every year through 33

so our financial advisor you know sort of like taking this over but when we did the initial of ten year in his in his equipment and what it cost like today and we did like a little flatten out we kind of flattened it out over the he needs 1.9 million dollars over 10 years so that's 200,000 a year if you want to fund this fully do you have the Bond repayment schedule in the packets I know but I can get it to okay wonderful I can get that to you and I probably should have included it but I can I can either for it electronically or next meeting give it to you or just bring his hard copies next meeting y That's fine okay let me write that down sorry about that sure no

have plenty of questions for Public Works I imagine there's a lot of detail here some pretty significant expenditures um so uh I'm sure we'll all have questions let's just briefly though look at the applications he's got for this year which is the uh Road commissioner vehicle to pick up 2500 GMC and the equipment

what you're just saying so like in the um Public Works request there is 100,000 to replenish a capital fund based on what you're saying shouldn't that be 200,000 if if we're planning on maintaining this 10e schedule exactly okay and we I think we have it's it's

kind of OD like last year in in the fire we we paid for something out of capital for 50,000 and then we put 50,000 back in it yeah so it's kind of washes and I I would advise you to kind of be cognizant of that because it's why not just raise the 50,000 and leave it alone so it just becomes an account we wanted to raise 100 we did but right we did but

that got that got squashed but then but then that was the result of it and it just kind of looks odd you know it's like I mean if I was in the public I'm like wait you're spending 50 out of Public Works capital and now you're putting 50 back in okay why yeah you see what I'm saying well I do I don't think it's I'm not sure I mean in the it adds a step you know there's like a an extra bookkeeping step from a bookkeeping perspective you know it adds a step it's not necessarily the most efficient way to do it correct but it won't always be that way right you know sometimes it may be but you know but I but it I don't think it will be usually um but I think so and Pete correct me if

I'm wrong but what I heard there was uh I just kind of caught the tail end of your comment which was regarding the the capital request and he's asking for this year what's he's what's he asking for 100,000 for Capital yeah yeah and so I guess my question is it's hard for us to see without having projected balances in

the replacement schedule you know where where were going to be when we start getting down to for example 26 what we need to be saving now but it sounds to me like what you're saying is we should wait and listen to the the new the finance guy right because he's going to have that laid out for us correctly yeah and so is that number that 100,000 is that based upon the numbers that the finance guy has put together no okay no so it's kind of a placeholder at the moment right which which is what all this money is because in when we deal with fiscal policy we're dealing with one year at a time so yeah you're not going to put a h 100,000 in the 26 budget because we're not we're not working with the 26 budget so it's good information to know but something could change so it's always a placeholder for it always well yeah I think but at the same time there's always the saving element we need to keep our eye on the

big picture of what's coming down the road and part of that is because um you know we have gotten to the point where bonds are ex have uh interest rates on bonds y the servicing the bonds has uh come to the point where it does make sense for us to be saving absolutely and you know what I've heard is you know we're looking at The New Normal I don't know at least that's that's what I I recently heard you know who knows who knows where interest rates are going to be in in two years but they may stay up for a while right and and we need to and it seems like we need to plan accordingly right it's going to be an interesting conversation because if you just look at Public Works we know if he's got a $2 million that he needs to spend over 10 years that's 200,000 a year that doesn't we didn't look at fire yeah that could be more and we don't have our buildings in there either so conceivably you could be looking at a

half a million dollars funded every year to fund these Capital Improvements if that's what you're looking to do to save so we'll that'll all be AED out when we get marked in here with this program yeah oh Jill so the the way this works are you

implying that because Public Works ask for right to increase that number oh I think that it's a that's really a negotiation between the manager and the department well ultimate to decide whether they're supposed to present the applications to us and before they come to us Jill they go to the selectman and so the selectman get kind of the first blush over the applications um and so you know I don't know for example if you know if this changes to a $200,000 application for example I'm assuming that it would go back to the

how much is going to going to Capital until the operational budget is done so you could you could you could recommend that do the capital I mean do the operation and be like uh we can't we're only going to do the rank number one because we can't afford the other sure five so it's it's always moving it's just yeah and and you can I mean the select board can increase it decrease it they have that yeah so when do we rank these uh after we with the Department hits so we're ranking it based on this number well it's probably going to change it's probably going to change between now and that I I assume I mean I don't know is it change it may um you you're

going to rank it based on the criteria and the policy regardless of the dollar right and then the dollar is right is after us absolutely you're not our rankings go to the next whatever money is so when we rank we shouldn't look at the estimated cost oh yeah I think we should well that's up to you yeah that's up to you but okay you guys are just consider it but we don't we we consider it but we don't make a recommendation to change it usually but it may go into for example um um you know if you look at the scoring criteria I think there are ways to reflect it whether it seems like they're asking for something reasonable or not so if for example if they're asking for for you know uh a significant amount of money especially for something that may not be that necessary then that's going to reflect in the in their score I just I just but I don't think our department heads are ever going to ask for anything on reasonable yeah so I

just want to make that you well one might interpret $100,000 as unreasonable when he's looking to spend $2 million in the next 10 years but that's just the way the numbers work that's just the way the numbers work if if he's got a 10-year replacement schedule and that's what you're asking for and he's given that to you and he's given you the cost over 10 years that's the number it doesn't lie so I don't know are you saying it should be 200,000 then yeah I mean I mean from a department head point of view if I know I'm going to be spending $200,000 a year over the next 10 years

then personally I think it's unreasonable to for 100,000 and I'd give that a lower ranking because he's being foolish and Joe wouldn't you why didn't you put 200,000 yeah that's because we're still because I think it's I don't think it's ever going to get funded that's why but if he doesn't you got to ask still you got to ask okay you know and and here's my only point about this we'll ask and then we're going to get called crazy because we're asking for it here's my only point about it about it and that is that you know this is a year where you're not asking for that much right okay so well there you know there are different there are competing issues here one this is a year we're not asking for that much two I assume on the other hand that um he's be he's starting these major expenditures as the bonds start to come off he's looking at his 10year replacement schedule and that's when he's asking for the piece of equipment

because that's what the life expect we'll be able to evaluate that better when we see the bond repayment schedule so are you concerned puts 200 in that they may just completely disregard it feeling it's too much I think if I what I'm what I'm if and we're going to see this when Mark shows up but I think if they put in the replacement schedules and what it's going to cost over a 10 year if fire public works and then we put our buildings in there I think the number is going to you're going to be putting the money away that you don't we don't have I mean we can ask for it but just which I I think Chris I but the perspective of what that number is that might be the case but I also think just from a planning standpoint like if that is going to be a a shoot moment then probably better to know now than when we when you get hit with an emergency because it's either going to be like okay so we need to somebody needs to

figure out where we're going to raise more funds from or maybe that 10-e replacement schedule goes to a 15E replacement schedule and or something doesn't give something will have to give but if it if it's going to be a half million dollars a year here and there's no appetite for that well then some some different thinking is going to have to happen absolutely so probably better to know now than than we'll know when markets in Al although the buildings aren't in there yet because I don't know when roofs have been put on and when we need to replace them and that sort of thing so that's the next step for the uh we can guess you know I don't know what M to replace okay so but it sounds like what I'm hearing from people is uh somewhat of uh agreement that you know this is a planning process and you know we we probably need to use the numbers that are reflective of the requests and and the replacement

schedule yeah because I thought the goal of this committee was to plan yes exactly okay so and uh you know we need to let the town's people know too if I mean if of course we're going to beet with Calvin and we're going to talk about about his schedule but I think it is important for us to um uh you know

let the T the taxpayers need to understand and the budget committee and the Selectmen and everyone what's coming what's coming at us and um you know maybe this is a wakeup call but better to have that sooner rather than later right so if you look at as request and you add am he is at his 200,000 this

year I see okay so there he wanted 100 last year but you're saying he need 200 in the reserve oh well right million but it's in the reserve and that's when he would pay for the for that equipment so we we haven't been planning like that but if you add up his request it adds up to over two

200,000 so it's there for for the year that we're trying to budget for I see yeah yeah I see what you're saying yeah he has some reserves as well already yeah he has some already in there3 so is that maybe factored in as well knowing nope no no that's what his reserve is and we we propos the budget to the bo select board and then it's their budget to then after we do it it's theirs to do whatever they want with that that board and when you said Mark is that the financial advisor is he a third party yes so if he does generate if Mark does generate questions in us are we allowed to ask them that same evening because we're not giving the questions to the department heads ahead of time okay yeah for

culbert stand do you have any sense of that yeah it's right in has um it's it's finished it's finished but we haven't we haven't paid yep we have oh we have okay yeah let me look at it yeah all right got it there's still 14,000 outstanding that's what's REM remaining that's what's remaining after the appropriation so we appropriated amount it was over and above what it actually cost and that's what's remaining yeah so if you add that 14 to that 139 what he has is um the 153 759 oh a wise person once told me I

always hold back like you know $5,000 $10,000 from these project until the spring and I see the grass is growing yeah do you do that do you guys do well when I was in public works like with Paving I only used about 80% of my money for incidentals because if you try to get it to zero you'll you'll end up yeah yeah yeah yeah sure you'll fail falling on the face absolutely

questions regarding Public be nice to see a little more detail in in his applications okay like so you have so just so I can you got his replacement schedule you got the mileage you got this you got that what other information did you like so um for example let's see here uh commissioner pickup truck current truck truck is rusting through quite badly with holes now through the body you know maybe just you know a little more detail here with regard to

Alternatives does he have alternatives to you know could he spend what would the repairs cost for example you know what give us give us some Alternatives here um are what would the repair cost could we push this out you know a couple more years get a couple more years out of it this truck is what 10 years old I believe um a little more detail yeah little more detail on the justification yeah and just know by looking at the schedule we push it out a couple more years you may be buying it with two other plow trucks well you know I I just thinking it's it's not just this truck it's a general comment yeah um for Calvin's applications a little more detail with regard to justification and the Alternatives you know what if we were to go another year or another couple years are there repairs that it needs that would help us extend the life of that vehicle I I think it's not just we reached this you know this

magic number of 10 years at least in my opinion and then that's it you know then we buy a new one right I I I get that but again we're trying to stagger these purchases so we're not buying a bunch of equipment all at the same time yeah but we uh right I get that too so that has to come that's one piece of it but it also has to come into it that we want to try to get as much longevity and as much use as we can out of these vehicles I don't disagree yeah so maybe a little more detail on the

that are from admin M planning and the historic district commission okay okay Reserve fire department Reserve we we'll swing back to fire department I guess well actually let's do them now let's so we're done with fire department help works so okay going back to

fire consoles and computers mounted in the trucks that's the project M so when we're thinking of questions we want to I guess take this into account also for the potential funding sources arpa but it sounded like the arpa funds are obligated right no no oh no 48,000 okay it's 48,000 okay all right

okay and about okay so you know a question on this so we don't have a general reserve request from the fire department like you know for all for for example for this pumper it's coming up and what's what's his balance again was it one 142 142 okay so no General reserve

request we just have reserve request for the ambulance Reserve fund and I I have to ask does the ambulance have a separate Reserve fund no that that that was an Enterprise that got taken account that got taken away okay so um should is

he suggesting creating a reserve fund for the ambulance or can we just put this all in the fire and rescue capital reserve that's what he's reserving it for and a no ambulance but it's that same account it's the fire department Capital account yes okay so we still just have one Capital account yes 2029 is going to be a big year for the fire department it's uh about sh a million bucks based on today's

right that's a really good point so you know we got a number of years to get there but we got a number of years to get there but when we get there they're really big EXP out and stagger over year still pay for and when Mark uh goes through the numbers is he going to show us our department to yes oh wonderful okay yes

all years the Quint rehab is going to help us for how many years because it's not on the schedule here but that shouldn't that pop in here somewhere in the 2030s what's the life expect to see of it I don't remember what he said he said another 10 years about yeah that's what I kind of remember but I'm just thinking it should probably be on the schedule as I'm looking at it for some sort of of repl something we

can him right yeah yeah no that's fine it just just dawn on me when I look at GNA need something later like replacement after because it was funded in 2023 he took it off no I realized that but just he he's going all the way out to 2039 here on the schedule so I fig that the the Quint probably ends up in the middle there somewhere if you look at his schedule see he jumps from 2030 to 239 which is great you know get a lot of stuff out of the way but um just if it goes in there then we should put it in there is really just a point right that we should make to him um just while I'm

thinking about it Jerry going back to um the applications uh Public Works applications and the justification line if you go into the policy and you look at the application page in the policy it says under justification describe benefits and Alternatives considered so you know also you know why does he need this struck just briefly you don't a sentence or two page five of the policy and Alternatives considered okay did he consider fixing it and if he considered fixing it you know roughly what would we have to put into it and how long long does he think it would still you know does he think that makes sense and how long would it go you know some general discussion about

maybe if uh you were to look at that with Calvin that would be helpful to look at the policy it's interesting because we have two types of uh applications Capital request applications so the one in the policy doesn't match the ones they F out yeah well I don't know where that change got happen it's probably a minor change I mean what's the what's the change well if you go down and you look look at your request and I mean this is what I was given last year to give to the department heads but in the policy this is see there was no uh

this well you're giving it to us separately not exact right right exactly I understand that but very different because here on the one that says justification but nothing about Alternatives so if we were using the same form you would have we would have saw that and uh yeah oh it's not right

well I think that's meant to just be like uh you know instructional information so um but just a little more info yep that's that's that's no problem admin town office reconfiguration yep all right priority two you want to tell us a little bit about it yeah so when I started here that was a idea or a goal that was already an idea to to reconfigure the office so this is the uh this is the plan this is what I come up with to to make that goal or idea come to fruition so basically it's a wall that's going to be built in this room to go stop at that clock this will be an office this will be the small uh conference room and we will hold public meetings over at the five station kind of like we did last year a couple times and what this does is this frees up right now we have our part-time employees sitting at a TV tray

um yeah not ideal um and if you look at the number of employees we have in the space we have we're just tripping over each other so we've got three people uh using one office that's back there the assessor the planner and the codes yeah in a 10x10 space it's really yeah it's it so this

isn't for a plan this is to actually do it right this is to actually do it yeah to actually to you know because I mean when there when there are ideas you know when when you start a position and there's an idea that hey we need to reconfigure the office yeah I'm I'm trying to implement those ideas as we go and are the Selectmen have the select discussed this um at last year's spe uh

town meeting yeah it was one of Kevin's goals during this presentation so it's been discussed and and all the applications went to the select board yes yeah yes okay yeah and would this any comments on the piece about the part about moving public meetings to the fire department is everyone on board with that well as the manager I talked to the Chief and we're on board with it uhhuh nice yeah that's and that's where it goes and now it goes to the select board and the select board can say no or yeah that's a great idea and that's up to them okay right so yep

so your notes say it would only be the select board and the planning board meetings all other meetings will be held at the Eureka center right but is the I know there was conversation with the Eureka Center about not being ADA Compliant so can we truly have meetings

they there have been meetings we had our public meetings there last year we select board and the budget committee got together we've had public me hearings over there with the planning board so do we have sufficient technology over there to support no in the in the whole that that whole Space is just not conducive to holding meetings I mean there's no technology there there's four polls right in the middle of the room yeah it gets rented out for birthday parties and baby showers and every time you have a meeting there you're going to have to set up a table and if you're competing with those uh rentals because we rented out it just isn't a really good place to hold a meeting and does this include if we're going to hold meetings over there does this include some technology yes over at the fire department so they're pretty much all set up so we just got to get a camera and just hook it up the

fire department yes oh but my understanding is only the planning board and the Selectmen will meet at the fire department right the official but I mean I don't for these what about budget committee what about CIP what about some of the other meetings that need to be televised right the ones that are like where we're making good financial decisions we can hold the meetings there I see the Conservation Commission they meet at the Eureka Center a lot of times anyway okay so those other like sort of um adart committees Solid Waste committee that sort of thing they can meet there take their minutes and that's

have a 2006 study where they were going to add on to this building we can certainly bring we can dust that off and bring that and talk about that to get a real boardroom because we don't we don't really have a good boardroom period sure because you can't get people in here it's tight well I think we can dust that off and I think I will I think I think I will I think I'm going to take it out of the file it we'll we'll dust it off and just say you know back in 2006 this was an issue and here we are in 2023 with the same issue yeah yeah that must be considerably absolutely what I'm propos what I'm not I mean it was [Music] 2006 they'll hold those prices and and this this doing it this way is the most cost effective right now and I'm not saying that Eureka Senate couldn't be that but it would be it would be a lot more money to get it set up well you know I think the really important part in this at least that I

see is the additional space for the uh for a better working environment right you know that's I think that's really critical does anyone work remote or have the opportunity to be remote so that adding no because the CEO the codes enforcement I mean he has to be here to do his inspections and the the ladies in the front office need to be at the window if if we could get everybody to do their business online that would help yeah you know but that's that's not reality good plug right plug yeah so the other piece of that that's challenging Michelle is uh Records right is for example the Assessor's agent you know needs to be here to access the tax records and and the same with code enforcement they the records They can't take them home right or at least they're not supposed to yeah yeah it's it gets it gets it gets crowded you know and there's a lot of reporting and there's a lot of math and a lot of coding and there's a lot of

that and when you're just sitting behind the window and there's distractions at this window it it it's just not conducive to getting a lot of reporting and work done so that kind of frees up office space for at least four hours a day where either the clerk or the Deputy uh tax collector can go in behind and get on a computer and actually concentrate and get get work done it's very difficult for them to do that right now okay so I see you've got some detail here with regard to kind of how the the offices would change so that you would move into the new office and the CEO would move into the town manager's office well and I and after writing this I think it would I think I would switch that up I think I would leave the CEO port put George and the assessor in my office because CEO takes up all the room in that office with all his plans and permits and books and this that and the other things so yeah and when the the

assessor and the planers not there that gives the clerk direct access to that office to do some of her reporting that she needs to do or the treasurer so they could they would share that when they uh switch off work in the window so it just gives them a space to get out of the motion and and get that work done yeah

yeah it seems like an important project and and I and Paul and I know that and I know you know this and if if we have an employee sitting in behind a TV tray and BLS comes up unannounced and sees that it's that it's probably not going to go well right BLS BL labor standards they can sometimes show up unannounced and if you're violating like some stuff they'll they'll they'll talk to us we want to encourage good workplace practices I'm and that helps with our insurances and everything exactly that's the other place where those things get picked up is like loss uh the loss control visit exactly I don't know if you guys you we don't have MMA right yes we do oh we do okay well then you get lots of business exactly yeah right exactly

attention all right and then we have assessing and this is the revalve yep and you look we've already put 60 aside to do that so the plan here is I got to work with Don and I have an RFP to go out to bid to do the typically we're probably going to have to wait a couple years even though if we put it out now to get on a waiting list because because they're busy MH so if we put a 60 aside now that'll put 120 and the assessor knows more than than I than I do about this but I had talked to other Town manager we're probably looking at somewhere between 180 and 200,000 to do the full re-evaluation so if we put in the 60 now

and we're hoping that we can get it down by 2025 mhm we'll have the bids back we'll know what it's going to cost and then we'll know what we need to put in additionally in in 25 to pay for it yeah okay and we all know that's you know we've seen some type of uh

revaluation related application probably for the next last five years and where's our value currently the certified ratio right now is at 67% 67% yeah and the L it needs between 70 and 110 MH that's you know wow and we we haven't done one for 12 years and maybe by the time we get it done it's going to be 14 15 years and state likes to have you do them every 10 years or so so this

with regard to things like the homestead exemption right is it the homestead exemption yeah you know I don't know you know I'm not really that up on the whole assessing in Homestead yeah yeah yeah we won't speculate there that right okay but I know I do know I went to a meeting and uh actually Joel was at that same meeting even North yith is facing the same thing that's and and part of the reason for that is during this pandemic folks were selling their houses for like $100,000 more than they were worth and that drove up the the value of the homes therefor right um so and now is in past

years we haven't seen Donna you've or the the town manager I believe has done these applications I I'd say that you know when you go through this committee members if you have questions about this then let's be sure Point them out also so that um if there things that Jerry can answer wonderful but there may be things that they'll need to get back to don don is an employee that works twice a twice a month like the first and third Monday of

okay all right the next one planning so this yeah this one here is a um codification of our land use so our land use ordinance is um is in need of some some work very difficult for the cach enforcement officer to really understand what he supposed to be doing um there's some conflicting um rules in there uh so what

this does is this gets a company to take the whole land use book look at it and and basically make a punch list for our planning board to say hey look this is where we you have problems in your land use code matter of fact this one here doesn't even follow state law you need to look at this and redo it so our planner now just doesn't have the time to do the whole research of the land use code because he's working on putting a solar uh ordinance together for the Conservation Commission he does prepares for planning with meetings and he's 20 hours a month um I mean 20 hours a week and a lot of that time he's preparing for planning board meetings for the month uh like with the resource protection and how controvercial that was he's he deal during that time he was uh meeting with a lot of residents so and as Paul as you know as a planner I mean I'm sure a lot of your time was was getting ready for these types of

meetings or subdivisions or looking at that stuff a lot of different pieces a lot of different pieces and he's 20 hours a week in a town with sure 4,100 in climbing yeah so I guess part of my takeaway from this is that the ordinance is always and I think this is true in every town it's always a work in progress that's right it's never completely you're never finished you know there are always things that need Improvement and it's kind of a matter of probably degree and scale um and I haven't spent enough time with our ordinance recently to really have a sense of of you know it's been over the years what some of the inconsistencies are but you know that might be I mean from my perspective I'd love to see that and I'll probably put that one of my questions is what kind some just a few examples of some of the inconsistencies okay I can give you one now okay so one sign on it says that we

have to follow uh we're going to follow the state statute on signs uhhuh but our ordinance says there'll be no signs but the state statute allows signs so is are we following state law or I'll we not because it's conflicting so that there's there's one and a lot of over the years there's been a lot of copying and pasting going on in that landing and it just makes it very difficult it is you change one little thing and all of a sudden like all the page numbers change right it's got all errant code in there exactly and this is only just a hire someone to kind of organize that for you give it to the planning board and say look this ordinances is out of date it doesn't match State uh law might want to fix this bring it to town meeting and you don't want to is this for them to actually make actually make uh changes so or at least a change proposal that will go to town meeting no no these are the changes that need to write highlight

what needs to be done exactly it kind of does all the research for the George and the planning board to bring the town meeting but they'll still have to uh draft up the ordinance and stuff would this be like one of the cogs that would do this no this is this is a private company okay that that does this here in the state of Maine yeah and they've done codifications for like 23 towns in this this state okay so it doesn't necessarily mean we have to go with the company that we've been getting information and talking to we can certainly go out to bid with it yeah but it's going to help cardif you know means to put in law this is to this is to prepare the land use ordinance for the planning board in George to bring to town meeting so it can be cified with the town meeting vote

going to have to pick off three or four things at a time to bring the town meeting because there's no way that if they fixed everything in that land use you'd go to town meeting with all those fixes will'll be there until Monday morning this you know what I mean yeah okay so it's just it's just a good it's just a good thing to do uh because our code enforcement struggles on what he what he needs to do what is he supposed to do and there sure there's a fair amount in there yeah um the second one now I had the uh historic district commission fill this one out this is money to be put towards the union

with the Union Church that everyone's always brought up at town meeting is the fact that nobody knows what's going on with Union church that is absolutely correct so have we gotten an answer there no there's a committee that's trying to come up with that answer so we're just putting away money to put away money yeah it is a town-owned property and it and it is insured and even MMA has said taking pictures of all the RW and everything and said you know you probably ought to fix this is there an Engineers report it's coming it's just a structural report oh and it was that I recall that um uh one of the members stood up at the last town meeting and received some funding yeah so was that for the assessment for the structural assessment no that was to help replace the Sills because they were R they're rotting oh okay so one element of the assessment is right so she wanted money to be put in the capital but it

didn't it didn't land there so I'm standing up in t meeting that 10,000 actually went into the planning operating account which when that doesn't get spent goes back to the undesignated fund so they didn't fix the S no cuz there's we're still trying to figure out what we're going to do that's the whole thing what are we going to do with this building how much money we want to put in it and I mean we we've done the town has done work to the to the union church I mean we put a new roof on it to stop it from leaking which would cause more damage if we didn't but it it is it's like I I believe the question that people are asking is how much money do we want to put into this building and what purpose is it going to serve and that's what the Union Church committee is trying to come up with where is it the union church it's um you know where the the bend down here with 9 meets 136 so you take a right and as you climb up on top

of the hill it's right there on the right rad on 13 rad on 136 the people right everything um but it is a it is a town it is a it is a town building um insured through MMA and they do do inspections and they have inspected it and sent uh information back showing pictures of the raw saying you might want to fix this um so I see in here the select board approved hiring a structural engineer but the evaluation is not complete nor is a report available at this time what's going on with that so it's coming so um when they when we were asked to get a structural engineering report I filled out a to Grant through MMA to help pay for it uh we did receive that Grant oh great um so the inspection is coming in a couple weeks because I I just got notified of we got the and but but

um I lost my train of thought so will that inspection be somehow like available for people to look at oh absolutely when I get it it'll be shared across the committee the board anybody that wants to see it um so using it yeah so the historical society which is a which is a private organization is storing a lot of their historical artifacts in that building that's what and they like to meet there once in a while but there's some there's some issues surrounding that too with occupancy and yeah I thought nobody was

people can go in there you just can't meet in there and have a whole needs a it's kind of considered you know um an occupancy dwelling an assembly so when it's when it's deemed that and the building can hold up up to 50, 50 50

people because of the square footage it needs a second means of regress so depending on how they want to use it will depend on what it can be used for right well I thought that it was in lockdown because it wasn't structurally safe for anyone to be in the building currently it's it's fine we the the I the the structural engineer has done his inspection and has informed me that it is stru safe and sound and there's no no issues there so we did that because if because if the building was going to be jacked up or whatever to fix so we wanted to make sure that it was structurally sound and it is that there's no issues

skimming maybe a question for the next time but um land use ordinances and the comprehensive Fen require um that the building be maintained because it's on the historic register so I guess I mean I short question is the fact that like is maintaining it mandatory versus the alternative of letting it go downhill or tearing it down not say that I want that to happen but like it sounds the way this is written the fact like you know once it's on historic register we don't have a choice and so we need to fix it regardless the

interpretation you know I'm not up to speed on okay fair fair enough but it is a town-owned building something we have to own not necessarily um National Park Service has those historic renovation grants but they the properties have to be I don't think that a town like a municipal I don't think municipal buildings qualify if I remember correctly but the building has to be the idea is kind of use it or lose it so that the building has to be incom producing some kind of business or income producing in some way or another so the idea is the National Park Service put some money into these buildings that're like on the National Historic register and helps to bring them up to standards so that they can be used for you know some kind of commercial purpose and um that way they become they're more financially viable over time can afford to maintain themselves there there there has been talk of maybe

turning it over to a 5013c um uhuh yeah so that's what the Union Church committee is discussing on what what do we want to do with this building and how much how much money we want to put into it to to serve whatever what it's going to serve yeah interesting yeah might be yeah interesting to look at that from like uh uh uh funding opportunity perspective

like you know I could how could you bring the most funding to this project like under what type of like circumstance under what type of ownership and what type of use right and you know when buildings get built like that back in the day there wasn't nearly as much traffic as there is now they have like you know this uh they used to have and I can't remember her name but there's a couple people at one person in particular I'm thinking of at um GP Cog who's like you know really well networked on these kinds of issues um I wonder if like some someone like that could be a resource for the for the uh historic commission yeah they they could be we sometimes work with main preservation on to which they have uhuh yeah some expertise that too

yeah all right so um should we talk about I think that covers the applications at least our initial pass and so the next thing at least that I have on the list here are our meeting dates um let's see Jerry have you talked with Mark yes our finance person about any specific dates uh not specific I told them that I thought the next one would might be scheduled either next week or the following week and I he was pretty good with that uhhuh so I'm looking at Monday

November um and I'll just take kind of a straw pole here and see how everyone's availability looks on that date good do we have any competing meetings in this here not no do we need look on the town calendar I don't recall Monday no I don't believe so okay I can

go in and look real quick if you'd like that's probably a great okay well I believe the seventh is the election so is and and Wednesday the 8th honestly it's like everybody's probably recovering from the election except probably except you know Jerry like you know the town manager doesn't usually do as much it's primarily the cler who here is recovering from the election well probably the clerks yeah but they don't attend thise exactly yeah yeah yeah yeah so maybe that would work maybe the eth would Wednesday the eth would work I can't do Wednesdays generally so again don't let

know I have an appeal sport meeting on the [Music] at um the 2 Thursday the 2nd which is next yeah let's see let's let's get Jerry to check the just to confirm that we're good to about Thursday the 2 sorry Thursday the second yeah says it's wide open wide open all right how are you on Thursday the second I'm Beau That's Thursday yeah that's Thursday next week on the

first all right yeah o' yeah sure whatever I can six or six doesn't matter whatever okay so now I think the only question is I'm just thinking about this meeting and so trying to Envision like how it's going to take place

and what do you think that that what are you envisioning there maybe an hour 40 40 minutes yeah no more than an hour I wouldn't think it would be more than an hour it depends on how many questions and that sort of thing but I I can't imagine it would be more than an hour you see is that something you want that you'd like the department heads there for oh the yes I would like the department heads here okay so they have some so they can kind of see how it works like yeah doesn't the fire department do training on Thursdays oh that's a really good

it's every is it Tuesday or Thursday they have training yeah could you check with the chief check with Calvin and the chief tomorrow to cons confirm that those dates work for them and that they would be able to come and and also um after and it's the second right right after after the discussion about the financial plan um to present their applications and answer questions yes yeah you'll have the applications right you have them now okay so just to basically talk about them right right talk about answer questions yeah six o'clock is that what or yeah

second okay all right and then how many meetings you you think you're going to need after that you think did you want to get ahead of you and try to I think it kind of depends on how things go honestly on the second I mean I think we're gonna that's biting off a lot for Thursday um but uh I think it should be

doable and I think then there's a question of after all that do you guys want to reconvene to discuss before we go off and score or do we want to go off and score and then you know and of course all after we score we always come back and discuss we could go either way do you're anything another meeting after the second to talk it over or just at the end of that meeting to talk not necessarily another meeting I think well um I don't know if we're going to have much time to talk after that meeting because it sounds like that's going to be going to be a pretty full agenda so I think the question is whether we want a meeting to talk before we score or whether we're comfortable with going ahead and scoring and then um uh having that discussion afterwards you know with the uh idea that if we need to change scores you know we learn something new we want to change a score we can do that you know the other piece of this is of course um

we have Joe may have some questions about the scoring process and we may want to take some time to like cover that at some point with you if you guys are comfortable I'm comfortable just addressing questions that I have after I read the policy uhuh yeah okay get a better you know yeah if somebody maybe that's easiest intended to just email questions is that legal in this type of committee I know it's not like a budget committee um SEL boards but yeah not not

really you know we should ask Jerry that question because you certainly don't want to be emailing the whole committee um if you have a specific question about like kind of procedural question then I don't see why you couldn't email me and I couldn't respond to you if it's just procedural you know yeah um yeah I think my preference would be to after we after next week to just score and then meet after yeah I don't know that okay sounds good me to discuss in the yeah yeah yeah yeah all right y just want to make sure everybody's comfortable sounds good to me so then we might want to look

at just like one more date that we can use is assuming everything goes well on the second um then another date that we can look at to reconvene after the scoring so the week of the six is that already figured that yeah so I have Monday the 13th but I think Pete said Mondays aren't good no Mondays are fine oh Monday Wednesday are Joe that Joe Joe can't do Monday's okay Monday the 13th I was it was it was Monday the 6th I couldn't so that we go six I just may be late Mondays are just one of those I I

13th and town we got the facility on that day it doesn't look like there's anything here aome double second at 6 you know what I have on the what we have on 13 planning board meeting is at 6 to8 for the ld23 it's not on here but I have I have it here on my phone isn't that when John is going to do a informational meeting is it like a public hearing that's the public it's the public here it's not November 15th I have it as the 13th and I don't see it here on the town calender on either day I think it's I could have it wrong but I thought it was so it's not on the 15th there I don't have it here no public meetings any any so the 13th is

13th yeah there's nothing you have a select board meeting on the 14th and there's nothing on the 13th and 15th but I have it in my calendar I know I wrote it down when they said it the other day and I there so that's something we should probably check right yeah cuz I don't think we want to conflict with that no no but I'm pretty sure they're having that public he if it is they are but is it going to be televised over there at the fire station no no they can't it would not s oh okay I see I see they may bring a camera over there to try to do it but it it won't be live but they probably bring a camera over there so it then it then upload it to the system and it won't be a okay a live stream like like it is so maybe you could check on that and if there's a conflict let us know soon okay if you could we just choose an alternate yeah maybe 15th Wednesday the 15th is the alternate so we can do the opposite day

whatever day they're do 15th I can't do Wednesdays okay Tuesday oh 15th is Wednesday Yeah Tuesday would be fine oh Tuesday Tuesday is a select board meeting do I hear Thursday oh I think I might have something Thursday thday works for me Thursday could be the alternative yeah

630 I think be with me Thursday or 6:30 on Monday 6:30 on Monday yeah 6 on Thursday all right so you're going to let us know on that yeah I'll let you know okay if it's either the 13th or the 16th so I didn't know I don't know why I missed when I left so Mondays the second at six is still on yes and then it's either the 13th or the 16th for the last meeting yeah and I think what we said is it's the 13th unless that conflicts then we'll make it the 16th okay that accur yes exactly and if you could go ahead and put those on the calendar yeah we will calendar yeah once I figure out can't believe do that awesome yeah great do you want me to compile all the scores again this year or is there because I'll set it up and instead of doing that if you can put them in the spreadsheet that would be awesome good last year yeah Mich Michelle does a really nice job so then instead of having to write them out I'll I'll update the

spreadsheet with all of these and then I can send it you can just put in your SC send them to me and I'll just it's funny I write them on anyways what's that write anyway yeah me too I read about too first old school old school yeah right you know I remember so many years I used to just if I had to write like something this is like when computers like first came out I hate to say but just you know writing First Things by hand and then going to the

thank uh the town manager Jerry Douglas and all the uh department heads for their work and putting uh the 2024 CIP materials together thank you this a good packet this year and especially thanks Jerry regarding the account balances that's a really big thing and I think this is the first time in this process that we've had really accurate account balances and it's that's wonderful and it's wonderful to have Mark yes on board of Mark sperm what's the name of yeah Royer advisor and Associates his name is Mark Roy Roy okay yeah and I'm happy too because if I can't report accurate numbers and not only that but we have the reserve accounts set up y all the reserve accounts are set up now yeah and they will will and in the big Financial picture they're not going those Reserve accounts aren't going to co-mingle with the other stuff either exactly yes so we're we're making those are really good things absolutely good job yeah

absolutely we doing good awesome yeah all right great um any other business from other committee members no all right uh a motion to adjourn make a motion to adjourn second okay all right Joe seconded all those in favor all right unanimous just just hang for a [Music]