TranscriptSelect Board Meeting ~ April 11, 2023

tonight's edition of the Durham Board of Selectmen would we all please rise for the Pledge of Allegiance of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all

um welcome Heather Roy to the board she's a new electee we also have a gentleman um Joe Roy who is excused tonight who's also a new electee so welcome to them everybody will now know who you are because this is the number one rated show in the town of Durham

amendments to the agenda yeah to make an amendment Amendment yes sir um I'd like to put tree growth down below number eight um because I believe we have to turn into the board of assessors at that point yes you're correct to that towards the end any other amendments [Music] seeing none they don't have to make a motion on that right that's just anybody can move out I think yeah I think it's just an adjustment of the of the order thank you yeah uh move around along public comment anybody here for public comment yes ma'am come on up state your name address date of birth social security number checking account number two Phyllis Brannon Brookside Drive I just want to do well welcome Heather here and um I wanted to thank all of the townspeople who came out for the town meeting who voted um so I'm on the budget committee and I just wanted to to say welcome to everybody and I look forward to working

with with all of you when budget season comes again thank you likewise thank you for volunteering we appreciate that found those two [Music] um changeover um uh within the board new electees and so forth at this time we were going to nominate a new chair and at this time I would like to open that up to anyone who would like to make a nomination

with yes with one of the board members being gone I know that we have a quorum but um is that something that everybody would like to visit tonight without Joe here do we want him to be able to take part in that well we do have a quorum if there was three of us here I would say let's let's postpone it but I believe next week the other Joe is gone the next meeting so postponing it for three meetings probably wouldn't be kosher is that what's your understanding well it is problematic in the sense that like to get like you signed up with MMA we need a chair to do that there's certain things like if something happens we wouldn't have anybody although I could sign it as advice

them the chair right who the chair is going to be thank you okay um and my understanding is that that's a role that you're not interested in is that correct you want to remain the vice um well I think it's [Music] um I I'm still undersided as whether or not I'll be running next year I may I may not it depends on who's running you know I don't like I don't want to leave you guys stock um so I would you know without knowing for 100 certainty it's nice to have continuity um I don't mind filling in for a meeting here and there um as I've said to the previous board but um my role of chairman per se is not it's not it's not something obviously that you know there's a lot to it there's I think there's a lot more to it than people realize um I think we're very fortunate whether it was Jeffrey Wakeman prior to Kevin or to Kevin because it's a role that is it's pretty extensive um but no at this time I think it would

be best if somebody else wanted to go that way unless nobody wanted then it would default I would default but it would be beneficial if somebody who really wanted it and really wanted to spearhead that I think it would be best for everyone that makes sense [Music] how you doing

Okay so I feel like I'm kind of in the hot seat with this because if with that situation right and then well it's not necessarily a situation I was just you asked me my opinion yeah yeah no no no I I'm just saying I mean that you would I appreciate your honesty with that let's leave it at that um so with that being said I feel like the nomination right because if Joe or Josh

they can't nominate themselves sure they can oh they can absolutely I don't think there's anything against it is there that I'm aware of I mean I've never heard of somebody who couldn't if somebody said hey I'd be interested in the job all it would require is a second okay that's that's really how that boils down to but like I said and I'm not adverse to doing the job either so um that's that would be that'd be fine with me I don't know Josh if you're what your thoughts are on that I hadn't thought about it

what I mean what it doesn't matter to me so I'll put it on the table and I'll I'll make a motion that I become chair we have a second is there a second I really wish we could wait for Joe just I I feel like this is a big deal and I I don't I think

I think it is a big deal but I don't want to I don't wanna I don't want to minimize it by any stretch of the imagination but I think when whether it's you Joe or whoever else is on this board really really needs to recognize and I'm sure you do and I'm not saying you don't is the chair is just here to facilitate meetings and to sign things at the discretion of the Town manager in the town he holds no more power or she holds no more power than anybody else on this board so it's it's it's really an administrative role as much as it is it's more of an administrative role than it is a authoritative role I think people look at the chair as you know they they're a higher power but they hold the same as the person that's just newly elected there is nothing further and if I'm wrong Jerry but I I'll mean speak up well no they the chair does run the meeting it has to that's what I said we're on track and that's I mean there

is some responsibility there um that's exactly what I said right and what I'm saying is but overall they're powered there's there's no more power for a chair than really they get one vote so I guess anything that comes on to this agenda is is is you know talked about with the members right you know a

lot of this is is just I want to say cookbook in some regards that you know this this is set up in a way that this is Jerry's agenda for the most part other than a few of the projects that the board feels as though need to move forward to help the town but there is Administrative burden to doing that to get in that yeah to move forward and in regards to Joe I if this was if we were going to have five here next week for sure no I understand I would be content with doing that and I don't even know if we'll have five here in three weeks because nobody can foresee the future right so it is important to maintain [Music] the board um [Music] so that's that you know but it's not we need to stop looking at the chair as some total authoritative figure over the board because that's not what the show so I think I think that that's where some of my concern lies is that you know and you know I'm gonna say like no

you're just gonna say it the way that that's who I am and I'm not going to change who I am you know because of that but there is a very marked difference between meetings where you were the person running the meeting versus someone else running the meeting and I I

get the sense not only from people who would attend those meetings but also from the community at large that they preferred a format that felt more like it did when you were running the meetings and so I think trying to change or move the culture of our town government forward that the person who's sitting in that role I think needs to recognize that you know that situation did exist um and I think a lot more people are interested in the kind of environment that you facilitated well I

appreciate that and I and I don't mean to cut you off but I have to cut you off because there is a motion on the floor so we can we can discuss it if somebody wants to Second it um so with that said do I have a second and then we can get into whatever we want to go from there

my two thoughts were that it was more appropriate to wait for Joe to be here also um against you but because I thought it was more appropriate to have everybody um I also uh didn't think it was appropriate for someone to nominate themselves which is the other concern I have um but okay uh but I'll second the motion okay now we can make those discussions as far as your concerns and your whether or not something is appropriate or not that that's the fairest way to do it during this time yeah and so so I wasn't sure it was appropriate I don't know that answer off top of my head um Google and I just want to make clear to you that this isn't like my position isn't that I don't want you in that role um it's more that I want you to I I I hope that if you are to become the chair or Josh just to become the chair or Joe is to become the chair at that point that I just made about the difference between the way that people at the

meetings and the community you know feels about um that I'm looking for I think it made my point earlier you know that I would everybody has a different style right absolutely everything it's always the way so it just just I know irregardless of

it's a process right yeah how how another individual maybe ran it is really not debatable here because they're not here um you know all we can do is go by what is set forth and the rules and the bylaws of how to conduct these meetings that's the most appropriate thing to do do sometimes meetings um you know a lot of times what happens in these meetings you know people will put facts over feelings which is the right thing to do yes I understand that somebody might not like the answer that is given to them but a fact is a fact and it sometimes facts have unintended consequences which are people's feelings and that's not um to diminish anybody on how they should feel or anything of that nature but in order to run the town appropriately it's it's responsible the responsible thing to do here is to elect to appropriate person um and if if you guys don't want to elect whoever you don't want to elect you can

make another motion app this one fails I'll take a vote that's how it works yes sir could I come up here I'm technically sure my name is Alan Plummer I'm the code officer um do you use Robert's Rules as your guide to meetings or not yes Robert's Rules chapter 12 says a person can nominate him or herself I know

Josh second second and just got any further discussion nope the other yes okay so I hereby today Joe Thomas your new chairman [Music] what do you want to do for vice chairman do we have to re-elect that nope okay no not unless somebody wants to oust you and that's fine too you guys are all welcome to do that but you don't get my friendliness the next time Joe's not here

will sit up at this end of the table you're welcome to sit obviously where you want but I mean those cameras are facing here you can have Kevin see my seat whichever you prefer nope um I I can probably just you want to move now

aging of the Guard Changing of the Guard and um let's go five is next so you're taking them off from everybody alrighty thank you all right everybody um thanks for volunteering yeah no it's not a problem at all um I thought you were in the Navy though okay I thought you were in the Navy just work for him just work for him all right we're going to um move to uh it was a fee schedule that was um presented to us in email and it's in our package

lot to do with putting this together yep you wanna run us through this sure and just everybody's uh edification they um we had an earlier schedule that we looked at and uh Alan went back and made some adjustments to this and I think it's pretty straightforward here but go ahead so um George the birds actually did the majority of work on this fee schedule by the way so he did the um uh research with other towns and he provided that for the board last last

meeting which I didn't include it on this meeting which I probably should have because there are new members but I can explain if you have questions about it so what happened last meeting just to quickly recap was I presented lots of different fee schedule changes but some of those required more than just this dollar amount to this dollar amount so um the select board felt uncomfortable with changing those because it may affect the ordinance so in fact those questions are still out and we've talked to MMA and we're going to talk to our town attorney because that's a possibility that the select board may have more power than they think they do with this kind of thing because the fees are in there so we still have some questions out but what I did was I pulled the ones out that have X fee before and I'm proposing a new fee

now so just kind of like like things no changes to the structure of how they're charged so those are residential construction conditional use permits Demolition and electric permit you can see that on this sheet yep and that's a summary the proposed version the proposed paper is just our actual fee schedule with the new things lined out and um red if they're new so I can tell you what the changes are and they're all Based on data from area towns George got information from Gray New Gloucester North Yarmouth townell and sabatus

charge 25 cents a square foot for residential construction proposed fee is 40 cents a square foot the average for area towns is 41 cents per square foot now proposed fee is 225 dollars so that's really low the average for area towns is 293 dollars for conditional use permit demolition we charge zero for demolition fee I proposed 25 the average for area town is 55 dollars electrical permit is a 75 flat fee I

propose eight dollars a square foot minimum of 120 dollars that would be for new construction or uh uh for Hope was it eight dollars or eight cents eight cents I'm sorry yeah yeah hey I would like eight dollars uh so sorry and uh average most towns

around do eight cents a square foot for Electrical uh permitting so a couple of things um condition use permit entails a huge amount of work by the Plenty board huge amount of work and fifty dollars just doesn't seem right for that um we would still be for residential construction would still be under the average for area towns by a penny um but that you can see the discrepancy 25 cents to 40 cents is quite a jump

um demolition the reason I want to demolition fee is um uh CEO has a requirement when someone comes in and asks for a demolition to hand them a document from dep and say I need you to review this and report if you have hazardous materials in that building it's a requirement if they don't have a fee they may they may not care about any they may not come in and say I'm demolishing anything everyone knows that there's no demolition fee so by having a fee we're saying you have to come in and get a permit and I'm going to give them that document so that they have to disclose any kind of hazardous material in their building and the electric permit um I want to down the road do some changes to lots of different things in particular the electric permit um but that's just a more uh appropriate fee for whole house construction when they do a build a whole house so anyhow anyone have any questions

think I know the answer to so I have a couple questions so are these the changes you you brought to us tonight are those the ones that you believe don't need changes to the ordinances yes and um there's questions that have been raised over the years about limiting growth and those sorts of things what effect on on growth would these changes have I can't foresee that future but uh other town when I talk to people our contractors here in town they're very happy with our fees that's what I thought and and so the only comment I would make to that is you know I think we have to decide there's been talk through town about whether we want to limit growth at some point in some way is this an appropriate way to try to do it to raise the fees I don't personally think that we have to look at the other towns and say this is what they're charging we need to be comparable if it limits growth in a certain in any way is

that what we want to do and if so is this a way to do it and I'm not saying one way or the other but that's just comments that I've ever made and so I wanted to raise that as a starting point because you know it's a discussion that I think people want us to have and and we should have

specifies that you guys will look at comparisons for area towns so clearly the ordinance is implying you should look at what other people are doing around us right and well they don't I don't think we're Bound by it is what I would say I don't know if we're Bound by it but we're not it's it's probably a lack of better words inappropriate to say you know as a board like hey we feel we we want to let's say um curb the housing curve as far as growth so we're going to put Implement these crazy fees and that's probably why that language is in there so to prevent that I don't I don't disagree it was just a way to start the conversation I got you yeah and I I'm looking at there's more that it's covering our costs to actually go out and have Alan and others Go and Do The Upfront work for some of or just regular

Town business not so much as a money maker or a um uh how do you say a dissuasion to not build right um is kind of how I've been looking at this I mean the fees were very low I mean all the other fees you did present although um you know some of those may have some some tails to it that tie to the ordinances um they certainly were an eye-opener regards to um uh what what a normal I'll say a

normal a another town in the surrounding area would be uh would be charging for the same level of service that we're providing but does it cover the cost is 225 cover the cost of a conditional use permit probably still not that's that's what's the conditional use for like what's it for it could in some cases it's very basic yeah how many of those do you get right on average I don't know I'd have to ask George that yeah but now two uh it could be it could be a very long process and 225 doesn't come close to that um so I just want to make sure that I understand is this was elected in 2022

adopted by the select board in 2022 that's what it says at the top of this paper and the ones that you had presented they that were embedded in the ordinance is that what I'm hearing um no so um was adopted all the fees were embedded in the audience everything was in the ordinance and they pulled them out before I got here and they were sitting out there and we voted on that we voted on that change yes yeah correct and then they didn't actually get the the pulled out fee structure didn't get voted on until after I was here and I said where's the fee structure I can't charge fees if I don't have a voted in fee structure so they voted for those some of the things I suggested in there require like sometimes there's no ordinance for it like a solar array has no ordinance for it and one of the things that we've heard is that we can't if we don't have an ordinance for it that we can't create a fee for it right okay but we have more

information we do need to do some more tracking down of that of the of your power as select board members um because it's possible that you that we can we can based on the vote that they took it in town you have more Authority than maybe thought you did so do we have that language available of what that Warren article was because if I remember correctly it was that the select board could adopt a fee schedule annually and so what my concern is is that if we want to do additional adopting um once we find out those answers if we were to vote on this tonight this is our one shot for this year and so I have a little bit of concerns around that is it on one shot for this year I don't know it might be the one shot for the line item but I'm not thinking that that particular I think I'm thinking the line item is is you could do one line out of every beating I think and you could not think we would do that but

um I don't think those if that's the case then then I would feel comfortable with that but I think if this is like I said if this is the only time that we get a shot at this and we don't have those answers I I wouldn't want to vote on this tonight well also something to think about is they've never been changed they haven't been changed for many many many years right so

eight cents a square cut and dry yep for new construction for new construction so what would we charge for like if I go from 100 amps to a 200 amp service at my house I would charge a 75 dollars so there is a flat and then how is it applicable with like HUD modular homes and I cannot I can't I have no jurisdiction over here I would just charge the meter fee the 75 yep um they they do they'll have to be a it'll be a it'll be a flat fee for those okay because I there's no difference I don't inspect I just check for safety in those gfis okay and is the 120 minimum that's noted on on the third page is that going to be in yeah

so you could adjust that or you could eliminate that too so it's up to you about that what do you mean well it says on page three it says in the notes it says minimum 120 right which I took to assume that it's 120 minimum and that's that's a holdover because that does it doesn't say that in our electrical ordinance right now it doesn't have a minimum so we probably you probably cannot vote that in the 120s we cannot

vote that the 120 part the minimum of a 120. you can go from 75 to 8 cents a square foot well I think I actually the one of the reasons why I was up for this eight cents because you did have them so if somebody does build a tiny house it's 400 square feet right then I'm charging 32 dollars for an electrical permit because your time you can't even drive over there for 32 dollars yeah so I like the 120 is where I was going I don't know because we don't we don't have that so that would yeah but it's part of the fees that we can set right yep so so you could do 120 minimum then eight cents a square foot Beyond is it or or is it and beyond that yeah 120 plus plus eight cents a square foot after after whatever that your 120 is a lottery that's so that's that's something I would like to change I would like to change the electrical the whole structure of it but that's more involved than this so that's

down the road uh eventually I want to go to a per opening for under a certain number of openings and that's what I've talked to electricians they're very they really like per opening charges so did you find per opening yes opening is is putting in an outlet putting in put installing a new light that that would be two openings so one to twenty openings would be 75 20 to 35 openings would be a 20 120 more than that goes to

them eight cents or new construction goes to eight cents so that's what I'd like to do but that's beyond the scope of what you're willing to do right now so that that's what my question was going to be is that I I looked at like what Lisbon does and their electrical

fees is very involved and part of it includes that opening situation yeah um and I wish that I had had time before I came here to see go into like their budget information and see what kind of um Revenue they were generating from electrical permits because this have you looked up there this is really involved yeah and I and I've talked to electricians about it because they're the people that want to know and they don't like complicated right none of the contractors like complicated yeah so I want to make it as simple as possible this is pretty standard I think Lisbon and some of the other towns I mean they get pretty in-depth because they they do believe it or not quite a bit of commercial so they have a lot of debate situations yeah sometimes it's I can tell you based on what we charge now yeah I bring eight to eighty nine thousand dollars in a year

think or maybe presenting on this sheet for this coming year that you're in the works on yourself no well in any other changes coming forthcoming that are going to be proposed in the next six months or three months or I don't know the timeline because we need to check with our attorney we need to check with Jack canway about the authority you guys have to set the fees because there's lots of different ways to look at that well we know we can set the fees once because we have Town authorization to do that so that that was it so I guess you know I okay so the other changes would be ordinant structural change I get that how you no just from a feast perspective I was just curious if there were going to be any more proposed so like one of the things is like our swimming pool is 25 and when I looked at just like Five Towns every single other town that I looked at was a hundred dollars so that's I can't assume that of

swimming pools related to the ordinance um and so I mean would you be looking at those kinds of things also to yes okay but and so I think that's what you're asking if like that's gonna come in the next six months I don't it depends on what Jack says okay I don't know yes I would I would like it to I'll move forward okay so by that rationale if Jack says no you get the one shot based off the ordinance there's no other thing these will be the last ones we see this year okay all right that's that's all I needed yeah so the Warren says I'll read it to you it says uh amendments to fee schedule to allow the select board to periodically set fees for permits and applications based on analysis of actual cost in comparisons with similar towns so it's not necessarily A One-Shot okay I think that allows you also to be able to add fees if he comes back and says like save for the solar or something else we could add a fee and if we felt

as though there was a run on something that needed attention yeah well the desperately overdue so you know I'd like to make a motion I'd like to make a motion to adopt the fees that are being proposed tonight uh with residential construction for under 40 cents per square foot conditional use permit going to 225 demolition permit going to 25 and an electrical permit going to eight cents a square foot

to include the minimum of 120 for the electrical permit be all in favor of that yes I will accept that amendment I would second I have one question but I would second it right got a second go ahead Josh just remind me the fees that we're not addressing are those are the ones that are specifically set forth in the ordinance

whatsoever so there's a there's a combination of those some are more in depth and some aren't in the ordinance at all so I only looked at the ones that had this amounts what we charge we can change it to this amount that's what I tried to do with these okay all right so I got a motion on the floor to accept the Fe schedule is presented uh with a change of putting 120 dollars minimum for um electrical permanent Services uh then eight sets of square foot thereafter right yeah can I asked a silly question in fact this will be effective starting tomorrow morning right yeah [Music] do I you already have a second yeah all in favor

morning right after that so slow all right uh let's see here we move tree growth down so manager's report all right well thank you um well I have welcome newly affected officers but so welcome Joe's not here so I can't really welcome him [Music] congratulations I'm looking forward to working with you and

so I just wanted to you know typically I would have a packet but I didn't want to do a packet now and then pack it for Joe so um trainings there's one on elected officials Workshop have you you probably haven't done any of that since you're being elected I did the um Jerry I think I think you should get together with the candidate the new appointees I just wanted to just let her know that there's one on on April 26th it's just I just don't want to stop asking her personal stuff on them no no no I just want to just let her know that there's a workshop it's Zoom if you want to attend what that is and if I haven't done it I will and you're on the member side of that house okay yep so I'm gonna update here on the ball field lease so I've updated that um the town attorney has looked at it just to make sure it's all good it is in the hands of my clock right now to review if he likes it we'll sign it and we

should be done with that cool okay great there's that uh ordinance Review Committee if you look to George's report uh section five specifically um we're looking to well for this very reason why Arnold's up here with our ordinance we're looking to put together a ordinance Review Committee to look at our ordinances and what I'm looking for tonight is if to a vote to see if you want to move forward with this or not um so what is this um he's discussed in here what that is so he's looking for the leadership of the boards and commissions to sit on this on this ordinance Review Committee so a select board member uh planning board member the chair or the vice chair same with the board of appeals is it all sort of ties in together the historic district commission and Conservation Commission and what this would do is we would look at the hot ticket ordinances that are coming down from the legislature in Augustine like

affordable housing um or anything like that to kind of and look at our own ordinances to see uh if they need updating and if they kind of lining up so a lot of towns will have these ordinance review committees to update the ordinances as things change in Augusta we change them accordingly so that's something the board is looking that would like to see I just need uh how you feel about that and if you want that's what you're looking to do discussion if you're all set so one point that I would like to make um I I'm absolutely in favor of all of this I'm not sure how if I mean I know that a lot of people that have that are sit at this table have been to our workshops that we've had um regarding the ordinance changes and there's one resident who um has a very clear understanding um for language structure and has made some really impactful recommendations that I I know George has you know taken that

feedback and implemented those things um and so having this be only made up of um board existing board leadership that would exclude someone like that from being like right at the table from the beginning to be able to make those recommendations and so I I am absolutely in favor of this but I would love to be able to like have one spot available to a resident if that was something that we could consider are they are they asking for a Committee Member or for job World a citizen or both I think he's basically pitching here a concert yeah but you know I don't think we can ask them where you know we're just sort of giving you some guidelines but you can certainly change them if you think a resident you'd want a resident on the board that you can do that right

about meeting once after town meeting I don't think this is a a one-time shot no no it would be more it would be more the map right yes and so I I agree I don't think I I don't you know I don't know that it needs to be limited to the leadership of the commissions I do think

appropriate um I think having situation uh you know one or two members of each board or commission and public you know you're talking if you have two that's 10 elected or appointed officials and I you know however many residents I I would say at least five

and I I to me that's more appropriate than just limiting it to you so otherwise the idea I like this proposal I'm not a big fan of back at the next meeting with a proposal that you and George think is appropriate and then we can discuss I'd like to see you know draft sort of bylaws what it's going to look like and yeah I think the reason for the board members is because they're already looking at some of this stuff so they're already in the know if you bring someone in from the outside it's going to be they're going to always be one to be caught up to speed because they're sitting on boards that are already talking about some of these issues so it's morally you're stuck in the historic yeah because their historic commission isn't looking at what the Conservation Commission is looking at no no so you're going to have that that anyway to an extent so to me that to me

the input from the town is something that people want and have historically wanted in this town and to me that is more important than uh saying I don't want to catch you up because I think it's pretty easy to catch people off okay

agricultural sector if we're just looking at this structure um and you know that's like a huge part of Durham um and so I'm absolutely in agreement with this I'm just not sure that this particular structure is that is gonna hit all the spots okay and we're and George and I are more than willing to put down your recommendations and bring something forward back to you with those recommendations what it would look like yeah but I'm looking at this also as you know an advisory committee as well looking at the the the our growth

plans our comprehensive plans and in getting the input from all the different committee members I think is important I agree public input is also I think it could be I could be suede either way I think it could be structured in either direction whether it be committee members that are the steering committee that are in the know of what each of the Committees is and and groups are going after and then bringing in the public which has had I'll say um you know some success and some not in some cases the word has not gotten out is or or broadly enough in some situations but I

think um like I could be I could go eat away with this Jerry I don't know if um even fill most of the Committees in here there's a lot of companies a lot of committees that this town needs yeah this I don't disagree one iota that it doesn't that also needs this committee um I think that's one of the challenges of the board that needs to look at and further discussion this year what what direction or what what we would like to foresee moving forward with public input of course and then Implement something whether it's you know because there's there's a there's so many facets to this as Heather mentioned it encompasses so many different entities in town whether it's the Horticultural the agriculture the residential folks um very few businesses but they do have they do have a presence in this town um that I think I think there's a lot to put I think this is more of a you know what is the planning board and so forth

well I mean we have a committee essentially that does this it's called the planning board yeah to look at specific things that correct reinvent in my opinion we're going back to the drawing board on a comprehensive plan well well some of our ordinances are old and they're not they're not really lined up and that's what we want I get it but we hired a planner for that and many years ago that was the whole point of us hiring a planner because we need to get these things in line so um between the planner and the planning board and so forth you know they need to start coming together with proposals and and moving forward that way we can we can we can get committees who are blue in the face hopefully we can get somebody to attend them but it doesn't really solve the problem a lot of times because one week two people show up another week they'll get the show is off another week it's canceled yeah and that

and this is our decision completely up to the board we're just we're just bringing it if you don't like it we can exit that's up to you yeah I just don't like to be top heavy like I I'm not I'm not a big favor in favor of injecting myself as a as a select board member on every single board that transpires in the tower of Durham I think boards need to exist and that entity needs to exist and then bring their findings or whatever and make a presentation to this board or vice versa or something of that nature I don't think everything should be run by every month the same people let's let's leave it at that right so there's two questions do you want to ordinance Review Committee if you don't then we're done I think what would you want to be made up of so we can that's I think our ordinances need to be further cleaned up before we can have the committee right I think it's I think our biggest problem in the ordinance is the average

layperson who would serve on these committees wouldn't understand them that's been our problem with our ordinances do you think that some of the drive for this is because it it literally took three years to pass something yeah you have one person working working on it talk to everybody well and and maybe that what happened was um he feels like his scope of like he's got a lot on his plate right with this but also with supporting the planning board and like that type of thing that maybe this is his way of trying to delegate some of that yeah get input from people in town or what direction they want to go in again my only concern with that is we just did a pretty extensive spent a lot of time and energy just dating what was that three years ago four years ago and we're already basically looking it sounds like we're looking to like hey let's start the wheel over again well you do because things happen up in

Augusta that affect the town well that's always going to happen right that's always going to happen that's been happening has an ordinance Review Committee and they they review they review and then every three years they put out their updates I'm just I'm just putting that out there as an example so forgive me so the

in the past the planning board would review the changes proposed changes and then now we have a town planner involved with the planning board I guess I feel more though that that group should be presenting five new items that showed up from Augusta that we need to talk about whether that's solar panels or or some other subject okay just wondering why why we can't have

why that wouldn't be an option I think George was trying to get representation from the other community I get it I I get the education part of it of getting us involved earlier because we get involved later and they've already hashed out you know 50 items and now they're going to rehash out the same 50 items with a new bunch of people um but I guess yeah

a board like the planning board and they come to you with I don't think it should be rehashing because you know we don't like it if the world you know what I mean yeah you get too much individual biases towards these things yes if a board comes with a proposal it's Our obligation to present it right so the question is do the four of us think that we should delegate make sure to make the planning board do that or do we want an ordinance committee that's exactly right so I'm bored it has always dealt with it yeah actually they already have that honestly yes that is there that's kind of their mandate that has been their Charter um to to manage that yeah to manage that so I guess how planner is just an addition to that so you know he needs to bring those to the planning board and say what do you guys think about a b c d they need to Ash it all out and then bring that to us

it's a little different I mean the planning board is looking at subdivisions and getting those approvals and that sort of thing this is strictly I I I I get that I understand right now we have a big influx but with everything everything passes and there'll be some times where there's not a lot of sudden divisions you don't have a lot of downtime and that's when those things get done right that that's what's happened in the past that's exactly what's happened all right but I'm all for a citizen I'm always for a citizen right participation in anything because then it's all you know Joe Harry Susie from West Bend South Bend and every other band came around and this is what they'd like to do and we're bringing it to the town because this is what was proposed okay so is it your wish to have the planning board review ordinances that is that's not our wish that's what their mandate is okay well they're they're they're they're

rich so they're a different like Heather said there are more than interview committees in towns and they also have planning boards so there is a bar there are bigger towns than this though right but it's the same but it's the same idea I mean like you see you have the same really well it seems Superfluous to me how's that so I'm

went through that that was way back when John Simmons always chairs the planning board and then that had to go back to the state and there were other things that needed to get changed and you know that that was a very long process and then that finally got passed and then we worked on the next four one of them was the marijuana question you know like all of that type of thing and then those didn't go through and then we had resource protection for two years where we finally so now we've got our Shoreland on now we've got our um resource protection done but the historic I know that George originally had that on the docket to look at this year and I think it just got convoluted with all the other things that were involved I what I think has happened is that it for whatever reason it has been multiple years that it's taken us to get to this point in our ordinance in those other areas I mean the Shoreland zoning was

huge because we weren't in compliance with State mandates right when we got that passed now we are and I think that probably the the idea around this is like how we just passed our zoning map is to get everything current because it's been so long that it hasn't been addressed and

it it's unfortunate that it's at the same time that there's all of this influx because we have for lack of a better word out of date ordinances and and I remember John actually stood up at town meeting and said we have to pass this because not only this part but other parts this vehicle that the planning board has to use as their tool is not current and updated

and accurate and so you know that's why he was advocating for that um I I think it's important I think it's it's gone on for too long that we aren't updating on a regular basis what needs to be updated um I think the planning board that I I mean I go to those meetings they can't they can't address more than one issue at that meeting in a three or four hour meeting I just don't know how realistic it is to put that on that committee I mean I know it's their job I I completely recognize that based on all of the things that they're trying to review in terms of the applications in front of them and also trying to update this 300 Page ordinance it just doesn't seem like that's realistic oh yeah maybe it is maybe it isn't I

don't I don't know I just we're not I'm not one for rewriting the charter of the planning board um yeah their Direction their directive is their directive now every time a planning board somebody comes before or wants to get on the plan board you know maybe the planning board is doing applications one session and the next session is their workshop session to work on ordinances and they're not seeing back to back to back to back to back I don't know how that all works um but the fact of the matter is this committee that would be formed would have no power it's just a consultant right right exactly anybody can present anything or go to a planning board and lend input when these things are going on but at the end of the day it's going to be the planning board's decision to bring it to us and then our decision to bring it to the town do you know that it's in other towns the like ordinance committee is is getting to the point

where they have draft ordinances that they're proposing to planning boards they're they're changing the language in the existing ordinance to bring it up to 2023. that's they're suggesting ordinance changes the updating still has to but that's my point the updating still has to be done

meeting right yeah I think you can say the same thing and and so I think sorry I think George could update the ordinance based on that and bring that to that and the planning board can continue with their applications and that sort of I just get so I think yeah I I'm thinking that we probably want George and John to throwing us some examples of where this committee might help them versus just the you know I get the idea of doing a committee here but you know what what is it what what is it different that the committee would do outside of the planning but what activities are they there's the committee reporting into the planning board um and presenting them with the language that or the changes that should be instituted or considered and then the planning board and the planner are them bringing that to us so how does this this how does this work how is this expected to work or does that committee

report directly to us which I think is what they're proposing here um I it's hard to tell um it could go either way but any major ordinance change will have to be voted on that time I get I get that but working up to it yeah working obviously George is going to present something aboard he should probably be here yeah that'll save all right it was just a it was it's an idea to have everything yep

going to make a presentation to the board and request Services it wasn't it was really just part of my yeah really yeah we can make it like rich not really but we don't have to we could just totally mix it I'll just tell George that no I think it is important to address it I mean I'd like to talk to George I'd like to table the discussion tour of next meeting with at least more chair will be here yep it really needs to be George I think so too but at least the planet board chair will be here at the next meeting weekend

rule is no I would agree with that yeah I think I think it's silly to have the conversation without at least one of them preferably both of them here yeah we need all right we need him see if we can get him here next what is it the next meeting the 25th yeah okay um town office hours so currently right now we work that window right there for 28 hours a week we are moving to 35 hours a week which means we'll be open all day on Wednesday but we'll have to close on Friday so it'll be eight to five Monday Tuesday Wednesday 10 to 6 on Thursday closed on

Friday and and just because I don't know is that a decision that the board had it you you made that decision yeah I just didn't know because I I didn't know if that's a police before I got here I will say this though Heather most times because of what's going on in this world as far as labor shortages and so forth it's it's becoming pretty common yeah yeah I just thought you were busy this past Friday right yeah and part of that some

of that though I think is because we're closed all day on Wednesday yeah and so people make up for it on the following days or the beginning of the month and the end of the month is always the busiest times so but you're getting we're getting seven more hours of window time with the schedule and no more half days because those are really inefficient you come in you set up you do a few and then you then you leave it so this is a much when is that going to be effective uh May 1st are you going to publicize that oh yeah absolutely absolutely first is a Monday so it's a good week to start I mean I could do it next week but I have to right because I've got to have some staff meetings and that and that actually allows us right now to to uh

do what the issue is Source hours because they'll be here at nine but we don't open till 10 on Thursday so that gives me that hour to talk to them or do whatever I need to do so it's a pretty good schedule they all bought into it and what I like is we are all here on Wednesday and people would drive in get out of their car and pull on the door and that's when they find out we were closed and it would bother me it's a bigger sign buddy you know and so if there's a bunch of cars here we should be open that's the way I see it especially if it's all day so we've had multiple changes of um business hours over the last couple of years do you foresee once you get into this schedule this this is this like you're gonna try this out and see how it goes and if there's not the need or you know whatever or like are you is this something that you think is going to remain and be consistent I think that's

one of the complaints that I hear a lot of is that the town office hours have changed so many times that people don't know when the town office is open or not I want to keep it that way and it fits the way the budget is right now too because they're they're scheduled for 36 hours I also think we had some some other issues that were were compounding that at the time not to mention covered right that and so I think I think it's been in flux for a couple years two three years now and I think setting it in in the labor market also it it sets

it up nicely for everybody I have a consistent schedule and one that's in lines with the other towns and other businesses and if it's been over the last couple of years where it's been inconsistent I think closing on that Wednesday where you had brand new staff with virtually no Municipal experience at all needed that day to just catch up and say okay what do we do with this how do we do that to figure that out without having interruptions at the window but now they're getting pretty pretty good at what they're doing so I think they're going to be they're going to be cooking with gas now so I'm barring any unforeseen circumstances these will be our hours these are the hours that we're going to go with yeah sounds like a plan and I'm hoping maybe by this time next year we can stick them right on the door set up on a piece of paper that's taped to the window that that question was leading to digital

sign buddy include a sign this year no but something I talked about for guys that's that's that's basically all I have right now as far as the report other than that everything's going going really well awesome what about that LD oh yeah I didn't do that did I so yeah sorry thank you heather for that so John Talbert the chair of the playing board sent this and um he's asking if the board would support sending this letter to Senator breakey's office asking him um supporting that they delay the um affordable housing to July because they're still in rule making so it's still in flocks so no towns really kind of know where this is all coming down right now right um so so they had a public hearing today um on LD 214 and it was I don't know what the outcome was I don't think I don't know if those things even get decided you know that then but um asking that towns with populations under 10 000 people were not

um subject to this all right correct that's the way I read it too yeah so they'll vote on that eventually so that today was the Herring so right so but my only question with this was why not our State Rep who actually lives in Durham too so that was that was my only question otherwise I support this letter because I think it's what's best for the town but I I didn't catch your what what we're setting it to senator brakey who lives in Auburn why not also to our our State Rep who lives in Durham

um it's just on job put it on let ahead who wants to sign you want me to sign it what do you want chair to sign it how do you want that to go covered yep no okay we can do that so what I'll do is I'll drive I'll just put this on letterhead yep throw it up I can swing back in tomorrow and we'll make two of them yep one to go to each if you have John science thank you I'm John Talbot Yeah the more the merrier right exactly just put it up you hang it out on the door and come Friday morning everyone just like yours you're gonna do some sign in here

year so okay okay yes so that's it thank you Carrie appreciate it um okay we had moved in um so you've got Town staff and committee reappointments yeah so get your pen they're all right here I you if you wanted to we want to we actually I should table that I've got to say we should I should have put this on bottom of number seven rather than number eight you want to do that and yeah move into the board of assessors yeah it's um yeah so we have to uh due to sorry I lost my space here Donna Hayes has submitted us

a um uh an item uh in regards to tree growth penalties and we need to become assessors before you need to do that we just so uh like a big motion that we um move into [Music] um incoming the Border assessors manner all right so we are now the board of assessors so uh Donna here um if you haven't read it

um it's a it's a request um by personal representative of the state of Roger Bertrand uh to remove two lots from the tree growth program um she met with all the taxpayers involved with what taxpayers involved um and there is a fee to withdraw from this program um and what we have in front of us is the supplemental paperwork uh which requires our signatures for them to withdraw and Ghana has laid out the

uh depending on like I'll I'll shorten my reading of this depending upon the length of time that partial has been enrolled potentially is between 20 and 30 percent of the difference between the 100 tree growth value and the fair market value of the land and uh she asked if we had any questions so I've read through this I I had no questions I'm assuming Ghana's calculations are are correct on on the fines or fees assigned here yeah um I didn't have any concerns with this whatsoever with the exception of we need to change our tax collector on oh yeah look at that um the one question that I have is that this fee is paid to the town

absolutely [Music] I didn't know if it was if that goes to the state it was tree growth is the same program some of it might but it is all collected by the town I don't know how it's allocated therefore we can amend it live

let alone because it's a prior to your taxes that's already been paid so which probably should all come to the town upon right yeah that's a good point that's a good point yeah so but I I agree that the tax collector is what I don't is what needs to be changed so [Music] I don't know if we table it for the next meeting or I I think are we able to I think we're just able to fill it right in and

need the emotion emotion if we're going to accept it yep we accept um the uh tree growth penalty supplemental tax warrant for the estate of Roger Bertrand two lots collector's name at the top of the form to looks to you Gary Jerry Douglas

9886.20 on one of the lots and eight thousand five hundred and forty nine dollars and zero cents on the second lot the tax collector you are now there's so many damn titles these days in the Hat so moved all right I have a second all in favor in the YouTube Mana discussion thank you so I'm sorry discussion concerns my only just I just have a question I'm going to ask a lot of questions I apologize to me that I understand why the whys

that I I assume that someone passed away yes and so a person would be motivated to do this if they wanted to sell a lot then it was integral or they want to do something I just why would a person want to take it out of the restrictions that come with the tree a lot yeah that would be so that would be a yeah

prerogative yeah I mean they might they might want they might want to harvest the gym okay okay it could be multiple things okay okay thank you I appreciate that that was the thing only the other insurance questions I'll play around the usual Monument right there you go that's the original

no well she probably printed some forward well she's gonna have to print it I don't know I'll I'll defer down the other end of the hallway is that Gonna Fly just crossing it out the registry or anything it's just a supplemental Town foreign

if you don't like the crossing out and just put my names not that I don't like it I got a feeling like whoever does it and I can kick it back I don't know how these what's up what's not reported in the registry it's the town kept not just the town yeah that's what I'm thinking it's done at the public meeting if you're good with it I'm good with it I mean yeah is it ideal I don't think so but is it past monster yes so I yeah it's dated today

so let's just I'll make a note when I see John gonna change is the name page though because we're signing on that right yeah I wouldn't change anything I would just leave it so when I guess I should have access during discussion but maybe nobody knows this so when something's in tree growth it's not added to their deed no no no I don't think so because I think it's a state program so

well I think when you yeah that's why I was asking because I think when it changes hands I remember reading something about that it's going to come out of that transaction and they have to pay unless they're going to keep it in

property so I was just curious how that worked yeah I'm gonna assume Donna hasn't done correctly so yeah yeah she's pretty good at what she does but I I would say if it does need to be recorded in the registry of deeds and it comes back and we have it yep I don't this I don't think it does need to be it's not notarized

out of the tree growth so I don't think it doesn't get reported it's just it goes in like any of the other attacks I can't think of another time I've ever done it in six years I don't think I don't think it happens very often yeah well the good news exact reasons yeah the good news is I did get my notary finally oh good good so anytime we have to find out I did nice job got my certificate and everything oh nice so we're good yeah luck signing your own name no no

but I can be there [Music] all right is that all our assessors so you got to come out of that motion that we come out of uh being the Durham Board of assessors so you make a motion you made emotion or you're asking for emotion I could either ask for one I made one you made one okay second okay if you if you ask one you could say something that's right right okay all right uh any discussion on that there was all right unanimous okay um

move to the consent agenda here and he um you want to have any concerns or the percent agenda if I have a motion to accept the consent agenda so moved that any discussion I'm going to abstain from this vote because I wasn't here for those minutes thank you well based on that should we remove the minute and vote on the minutes and the warrant articles separately yes I think so yeah I I make an amendment to my motion that we accept the consent agenda as to uh the minutes from the March 28 2023 select board meeting only okay do I have a second I'll second that okay any discussion [Music] all right all in favor there and then um

I'm sorry Heather abstain from the meeting minutes then I'd make a motion that we accept that concern agenda as presented as to the uh March 31st and April 7th 2023 warrants both payables and payroll do I have a second yes I'll second okay any discussion

but you're signing right this has Kevin's name on it still yeah all right we'll have to fix that in Trio that's fine so I have a question about this just because I don't that right am I allowed to ask a question after we've okay so and then I have another question about like the process of things also yeah I know but that I mean I I am going to ask a lot of questions um so how do things get on this piece of paper

right so that's just Deputy Treasurer creates a warrant and that's where the um where the checks get written goes on the warrant so the so the bill comes to the town okay a bill comes to the town and if we're paying the bill this week it gets on this piece of paper and that's what we're signing yes permission to pay that bill yes right where am I signing my name's not on here just put an add your name just add your name we'll have to take care of that

left Todd on there yeah I didn't see Todd's name sorry so I gotta make some notes okay so we did accessories McDonald's always uh yeah okay so yeah so if you see something that you have yeah that's what I want to know it's like is it appropriate to ask a question if I have a question about something that's oh absolutely okay you may not get the answer right then because I may not know you know what the answer is

can always look into absolutely so with this here do we need to call out each appointment as we go through no no okay they're just reappointments me Jessica everybody so yeah you can just we're just authorizing the town to conduct business right the way that we always have so this is just a no voting or anything on there so while we're signing this gigantic stack of papers can I ask some other questions about like process and stuff like that so if I have things that I would like to bring up or address or you know that type of thing am I emailing you and asking you to make that an agenda item am I asking everybody else if they want to talk about it like what's the process to be able to bring something up I think you emailed me but you should CC your board okay at the same time so they're they're aware that that's something you wanna not bad that you want to talk about so like for example tonight one of the

things was Alan said do you follow Robert's Rules you know whatever and that that question had come up before about about meetings and how they're run and and those that procedure or um you know like a code of conduct or you know that type of thing I would like to have if there's a policy that exists around that I'd love to read it if there isn't I that's something that I would like to have exist yeah yeah um in my office

there's like a it's like a microfilm hard copy Roberts rules thing that I can photocopy and give it to you so you can kind of read that I can show it to you too um Josh you wanna love the stuff Heather is kind of structures and procedures which one you got one yeah I'll give you that one one thing that uh one thing Mitch did that I really liked was he didn't like new business and old business I kind of like that I may I may adopt that in the agenda just so you folks know that an old business has been talked about before so like like we talked about that so for example when George and John come in to talk about this ordinance Review Committee I'd put that under old business and it would it would trigger your thoughts to know that you've talked about it before memory so a differential between old and new yeah I kind of like that

date you know so signature so can I just asked these forms to talk about what I do here by vote to appoint and confirm you do we not need to vote for these are they I mean that's what the Forbes say so I just I wish yeah instead of saying reappoint I still think it's a reappointment we do this every year after annual time meeting you know just just vote like a mass

voting to I'm just saying this is what the form says I can't think of another time where we've um because if we went in and we started naming all these names and all that stuff in the point I mean then there'd be discussion we we've never got an executive session for this so I can't and we'd have to if you want to discuss those names yeah

you like emotion I mean that's a catch-all there's nothing wrong with them approve the appointments presented as presented and then there's nothing wrong with doing that yes it covers your bases I can't remember if we've done that form I know we haven't gone all I'm saying is I know we haven't gone in like an executive discussion to talk about hey should we be appointing Josh as the road commissioner no I'm just I well it's a great question I just could I can't remember to save my a defer to Jerry on that one and I'd have to defer to the clerk well then no I that I'd make a motion that we accept the reappointments as presented by uh the clerk second okay any discussion emotion on

the floor okay oral everyone gets rehired yeah everybody gets rehired and gets their jobs back which is a good thing because everybody's doing a great job would definitely need like for example like I happen to have Allen here if we hired a new co-op officer but being aware of that code officer it's kind of implied right yeah all right

inspections from them or we couldn't collect the money um okay another question I'm on the appeals board I think I have to not be anymore correct if the roots should look into that um I would say yes because we we are the power over the appeals board if it gets to us right so we couldn't be in two places at once in that case yeah that's true yeah I think right other committees you could be on well we're not necessarily we're the we're the ones who get involved if it goes yeah right then it falls right and then that would be a problem so yeah I would agree and then I plan to talk to milk but I feel like I should not I know that at one of the other meetings it was discussed that someone kind of sit on the budget committee and also on the select board um I I want to talk to melts about that I feel like um you know I'm gonna have my opportunities to do these questions and have input in the budget sitting here and I'm not sure how

appropriate it is to sit on both I I wouldn't think it would be honestly but I don't know enough about it to give you a definite event because if both elected officials and they're both kind of tasked to do Overlook each other that's what I've said is like the Committees would be I know when no no no I can only speak from the past I know

committee once he got honestly [Music] I'm trying to think if we ever had anybody else no coming up I don't think we should be on any of the budget related committees because we have the vote here right and that would give us yeah it's kind of like that'd be almost the same as being on like a planning room it's just yeah

oh Jessica said I need to write a letter of resignation yeah and then and then that takes care of it it'll yeah but I don't know the exact answer I think you signed all the other ones I think buddy yeah did you I did have a stand up for that yeah never seen one that looks good

Squirtle recently the way they close on these things it's a lot easier you still have uh mentioned the upcoming meetings yeah I still yeah we still have um all right well everybody's finishing up signing all right we have upcoming uh meetings here um we got the uh select board meeting on 425 uh and five nine uh at 6 30 at the

town office um any other meetings of note other than what's written here Jerry next meeting but okay do we need an executive session tonight anybody okay um do I ask for what's that ask for a motion yeah do I have an emotion to adjourn so moved second oh almost a second second

all in favor can you signing thank you Kevin right so