TranscriptPlanning Board Meeting ~ May 4, 2022

acting in her spot for only a second um first step here is roll call and determination of a quorum um so i think that's good um second thing is the annual election of officers so we need to elect a new chair as ann is stepping down his chair

you know the um the agenda and just one thing that i i'm kind of concerned about is under our by-laws it says that we need to have a secretary and it is not to be a member of the board in the past we had rit tech [Music] she whether she reviewed the recordings and formulated the minutes from that i don't know if that was her process but she was the one that was taking care

question i have for this to see my initial feedback from mitch when we talked about you know the support to the board and the good news is george is available to handle the kind of stuff he's been doing for us and working on codes and other whatever the initial feedback was there isn't anybody on the staff who could do who will do that or can do that insufficient status right so

re you know re-look at that a little bit i mean it's one thing to i know tyler and others have picked it up with helping the minutes and george is gonna help with that but when we get into mailings and a whole bunch of other stuff that sort of overwhelms you know the volunteer aspect of this it becomes a pretty much a full-time uh effort for a day or so to make sure we're giving them their uh their own money's in their budget for paying that individual yeah and that's what i'd like to go back to the town interim town manager and say you know we're going to do that you're adding a third clerk is that person available or is there another way to do that because i don't want to dump it on us uh and recognizing that the planner's got 32 hours at correct 32 hours 20

so i guess that's what i would like to do is get back to you at the next meeting and say this is what he's saying the other option whether is involved in these meetings now whether that would be a response their responsibility i mean that's something else that you can present to themselves i will do that i think his that role from bob in the past is george is going to pick up that piece of the pie i mean getting packets together for this meeting and doing some of that other stuff but i'll also ask if that person is available or can you out of our funds can we pay for four hours a month for as one of the clerks or somebody else to pick up the secretarial room i do understand that minutes are being taken tonight

well thank you you are uh kimberly kimberly okay i also wondered maybe it has been potentially immediately throw it out to the public to see if anyone's interested in being secretary sure potentially you know yeah i don't i don't know about pain or whatever you know that but

like they're all all good ones but i think that's if somebody wants to step up if we want to the intent my idea would be to not keep tasking tyler to do that so well again also the bylaw he is part of the board that's true

agenda are there is there anything anybody julian i do i have i have kind of like one main one but something i would like to bring up regarding the conservation commission and their potential involvement with the planning board um if possible

see no problem with it a to b discussion on conservation commission january 5th february 2nd and april 6. i hope that we accept them as presented of them the uh because the workshop which says that the next meeting will be may 3rd and i think it's actually may 4th so can we make that i don't know that that's super important just make it a condition that we change that one one note as amended

town officials do you have anything from the town officials kim did you want to be a town official well george because did you have anything you want to speak yes did that include under this item a memo and also uh the outcomes of the town meeting i think pretty much everybody's familiar but just to make sure we're all on the same page on that note there were four proposed amendments to the land use ordinance uh two of those passed that was the appeals process in terms of what the board of appeals jurisdiction is and the second one was the fee schedule i will be working with the town manager to prepare a fee schedule for adoption

and then the amendments for resource protection is voted down so the zone map is as it is currently uh for those areas and then finally the uh parts for roads which was going to clarify some of the issue of approval of roads outside of subdivisions and backlog access again that was also voted down so the regulations that we have in effect will continue so you will be seeing road maintenance agreements for all of these outside subdivision roads and the code officer and road commissioner will be approving the plans for those

town has hired code enforcement officer alan pullman from falls and i believe he's starting tomorrow he's going to be phasing in over the next month finishing up at mechanic falls and then finally i did include in the packet which i distributed to the town manager the select board chairman a memo addressing a couple of issues that have come up even as recently as the workshop last time and that is the issue of impacts on schools what the planning board's jurisdiction is over that issue when it reviews projects and then secondly clarification on the growth limits and what would trigger a review of the possible moratorium and caps so that number is in your packet and then we have to answer the questions

timeline when we can talk to the sort board uh i've talked to mitch about presenting something to them on may 10th existing fees are pretty much yeah are or should be that will be coming out here next week i guess right did you send me tim okay anything else for town officials

this is an opportunity to make comments uh about things other than the two projects that are listed here so general issues concerns that you want to comment on uh reference planning so if you're here specifically to talk about one of the two new business things we'll get to those later

question um the the sketch plan and the revision of bowie hill is that open public comment so are we gonna have a comment for those normally the sketch plan based on the ordinance is not and so when you get into the next space of it after that then it will be uh subjected to comments i mean you get into the next page you're looking at a site walk and the public is invited to a psychological design if we want to hear that so i was just curious if the public does have any questions on this can they not ask them now do they have to wait till after we hear it first i'm just the the sketch plan i think you all did it very well which is tonight is a discussion between the developer and us and then at the preliminary plan which if it goes forward would be the next stage that's when we hold public comments i guess what i mean is right now in the information this is about just planning in general yeah not one of

the two problems not application specific is that right yes okay happy you are on the chair or [Music] you look like you're supposed to have something can board members make comments hi i'm heather roy from 777 hollow road

and i had a few questions tonight um george when i was looking at your we had talked about impact fees at that workshop and this says funds collected to be applied to plan expansions within a reasonable time frame at the workshop it sounded like that was a specific amount of time um that doesn't seem clear in this so is it a you referenced 10 years i'm wondering where that information comes from

to use uh because i'm a little bit uncomfortable going through the memo and answering a lot of specific questions that could be answered yeah this is really intended more for comments but since we've had that bit more process on what this is this is a informational exchange to our agendas i love it but just a little bit and i think this this was in your laws you weren't doing this historically so i think we're gonna have to work through some of these formats just generally george would you mind just what were your thoughts on what this informational exchange is well again these are your bylaws they've been in effect since 2006 it hasn't been done recently as i understand it but that's what's on the agenda so that's what i put on to this agenda and my understanding is it's an opportunity for people to come in and bring up issues that should be addressed for example but i don't think it's necessarily intended to be

a review of the review of a report with questions and answers for 10 minutes okay so maybe no questions maybe comments right and then we can take that and sort of request that we incrementalize more information yeah questions to be answered it's hard for me at this point yeah that's fine that's fine that'll work thank you okay so this will be a question then that somebody can hopefully answer next time although i think it'll probably get addressed um a process question when there's a revision to a subdivision plan um is there a public hearing associated with that you don't have to answer that now if you want to answer it now great but if you don't want it that's fine too um and then i feel like that's probably what we couldn't get to right now right

you're talking about bowie hill well i was trying to be respectful of the fact that you didn't want me to ask [Laughter] once a a previously approved plan has been submitted and it comes up for your vision it is opened up to be totally reviewed okay thank you um i'm gonna try to be respectful of this process so that's all i'm going to say for tonight and then when a little bit more rules are around what this actually looks like then i'll come back okay

questions whether it be about projects specific or in general we do have this great new asset with mr thibarge so if you've got a question that we you don't get answered or you you don't want to wait till the next meeting or whatever about how white has a road in the subdivision if you can't find in the ordinance then i would commend to you mr thiemarge to do that and also uh just as kind of as a reminder once we get in uh in fact i'll hold this comment until we get to some divisions ex parte and so on and so forth so cut you off short are there any other general comments

non-residents are there any non-residents who want to make a comment this evening agenda um one thing i would like to add on that in reference to the town officials when i talked to the town manager about this what i'd like to do is provide feedback in person or in a letter from us the planning board to the selectmen so when they meet either i would be there or i would we'd send them an email or whatever that says this is what we did on our last meeting is the projects we talked about here's some of the comments that came up from the public so it just kind of reinforced that line of communications between the selectmen and the planning board and then they can come back and give us whatever feedback they want or anything that they'd like us to consider in the future i like that idea um one recommendation is maybe you or someone goes to the selectboard meetings they have a time when they ask

for official minutes or whatever and then that way you're on the record talking about it and if they have any questions yeah and jordan admit excuse me mitch invited me today to do to do that so that's a lot of work other thing i it's as good a time as anything that i did not do uh after the election was to publicly thank ann torgosa who's been the president for this planning board i won't say for many years because i don't want to date her but anne was a superb president member active community so if you see her out and about her you need flowers on snow road please thank you because she did a great job and she is also going to be back and so she promised and we will hold her to that point so but thank her when you when you see her so any other can is there any other continuing business

scheduling we talked about at the last workshop scheduling another workshop to cover um changes to the codes and coordinating that with the comp plan and so there's twice tonight i'm going to ask you to take a look at your calendars and i don't want to again i'm retired and have no life but i don't many of you do are not retired and do have a life so i don't want to jam a bunch of meetings in there but one in the first thing that we need to schedule probably to keep things on track is the site visit for um how well and then at some point in time after that allowing some time to schedule the the workshop

password how about we plan the site walk during the app stage and then maybe at the end we can schedule them we'll do that okay any other continuing business so then on to the first of the new business which 10 inches ah i believe it's this yeah it's 207 353. two five six one three five seven two five i'll be there two oh seven three five three

commission as an official reviewer of all subdivisions and any application that we do would be important for someone for resources issues conservation commission is really the go-to for resource environmental for all sub sub divisions but for other applications that any application actually maybe we could at the beginning when we're starting to hear it you can vote on whether we want them to be part of the review process or not um

applications um you know they would be part of the sidewalks they would provide comments and questions saying that we treat them as a full member so just we would get their input we would say than that we would say hey our subdivision review is starting today please you know be here for the meetings or at least watch the video we'll do the documentary i think

their scheduled meetings are they going to have to do it as a commission versus an individual no no i would i would recommend that we don't have to worry about their schedule that they make it work okay i don't see that as different than anybody like a normal citizen they're more than welcome to do it and just adding them as here's and they can pull it the same information now so they're welcome to you know come up in the next hearing on whatever subdivisions say this is the conservation and hopefully they would provide feedback prior to that so we're really concerned about uh this this creek or whatever it may be

really thinking about something like beyond that because i was sort of thinking the same way wow they can go on the sidewalks and the public comment yeah well it's almost like we would look to them for their review i mean how many times have we been like oh there's a resource here what's the ranks here i don't know you know

it would be a step up from the normal public right detail clearly there'd be no veto you know just because they just it's no different than the historic commission or in that or mdot or whatever that you know we take we get their advice and all that other stuff what would that process look like like when we've got the agenda if there's say a new plan we just forward it to the conservation commission it actually wouldn't we really wouldn't have to do anything the cons comes kind of on board with what we're doing already they're pretty active with what's going on they would just be here um and then we would look to them for their comments whether or not we agree with their comments and follow through with their comments and recommendations

us it would just be more eyes on us they're welcome to do that now i'm here don't know that we have to formalize that process or maybe it's just we if everyone's cool with it then yeah i was hoping we're going to talk about resource protection in the conservation commission so yeah george mentioned that i think can we talk about that at the end absolutely any other 6b visits succeed actually yes i have one more thing regarding um just this is an idea if there is an issue with a project impacts in the town regarding resources the cons com is also a good resource to go out there and check the wetland lines you know generally where the stream is um just a thought it's just a common really you know instead of the ceo who may or may not have experienced eliminating weapons

want to make sure that the person who's officially supposed to do that the ceo is still involved in that absolutely yes can i just clarify um just so everyone understands one thing we're going to be talking about in terms of moving forward is the escrow system for technical peer reviews so i think what we need to look at is whether or not something like verification of wetland delineation should be done by a contractor for the town versus the volunteer of the conservation commission because it might affect

forward about using because i know the town has not in the past utilize the escrow system but it's there and we've been collected on all simulations and i've actually talked to at least one engineering firm about doing technical reviews of engineering yeah and someone brought up some towns have like a list of third consultants that they use

conservation commission can certainly give opinions on you know any of these towel subdivision and this is for a sketch plan approval and so a little bit looks like one of our applicants is here this evening the purpose of a sketch a couple of things i want to clarify with everybody the purpose of the sketch plan this is a very infor informal first step required with the cluster subdivision which they have asked to do and it's an opportunity for the planning board to learn a little bit about the project to pass on to the applicant our concerns or things that in particular they want we want them to pay attention to and at this stage is very early so there's been no real formal planning no engineering design done you saw the what is in fact the sketch plan that says this is where we expect the road to go this is where we expect the lots to go here's there's a trail that we're thinking about i saw that on there here's our

concerns about streams wetlands and so on and so forth so this is doesn't get a formal vote on approval uh and the next step after this is in fact a site visit and if we move forward to that then the preliminary plan approval so just so we kind of set an expectation this evening in may this may look very informal but that's sort of the intent of it so with that i would ask uh mr uh larger planner to give us a brief uh description of this and he's also put his concerns on paper and then asked the planning board to see to comment on mr d barge's comments and then uh the applicant will tell us a little bit of answer some of the questions if he knows the answers at this point and then we'll also go back to the planning board to say are there any specific concerns you want to look at so the first step is mr zimmer thank you so i did provide to the planning board my review comments and i'll just

summarize those for members of public as you uh mr chairman you indicated that the applicant is seeking schedule and review for a cluster subdivision and a sketch plan review is a required step for all subdivisions but with a sketch plan for a cluster subdivision it's uh there's a little bit more to it and we'll get into the details of that it's an opportunity for the applicant and board to informally discuss pursuit of subdivision development on the subject property and the applicant has provided as specified by the ordinance general information soils maps and other documentation to give the board some level of understanding of what some of the challenges of the property in the project might be the main purpose is to ensure that the applicant and the board are on proverbial same page so that when the applicant comes in with a preliminary plan so for example we're discussing a sketch plan at this stage for a

cluster subdivision the sketch plan stage is an opportunity to discuss the concept of what they're proposing if it's just simply uh to as in the past happened so often where development plan is proposed where there's land that is really not accessible and that becomes the open space and doesn't really have any relationship to the subdivision design and use so there are some specific guidelines in the ordinance for cluster subdivisions say it's an opportunity to just informally discuss before they spend a lot of time on engineering whether or not the planned approach to this project is is sound and will end up getting successfully through the appointment board if it meets all the standards uh the meeting also provides an opportunity to flag key issues that will come up when the project does come in for application review and i've identified in my review several issues the first is the access to the site from

hollow road second is there's a major stream crossing on the feeder to dire brook and there's an existing stream crossing just down the stream from where the road is proposed that will currently access the site constraint or flow constraint so that will require some special consideration

subdivision requires a more detailed site concept plan at this stage and the applicant has provided that there's a good topographic information wetlands a layout of the lots as well as some of the other features there is a requirement of the net residential area calculation to show that the no more lots would be achievable under this plan uh then they could do under conventional plan with the caveat that there is a recognition that cluster subdivisions are more efficient from a design standpoint and the ordinance specifies that the fact that they get one more lot doesn't nullify the process there's there is a recognition that they may get one or two more lots but they can't go from 10 lots to 20 knots so that's part of the discussion of the cluster subdivision the relationship of the lots of proposed open space is another issue to look at uh the usability of the proposed trail system uh and the potential for

interconnection with other trails in open space i know uh this trail as it's laid out on the plan crosses the stream at least once if not more than once and so that'll be an issue when the project goes forward that should be at least everybody understanding what that's going to be involved the suitability of the proposed building sites in terms of slopes setbacks and soil suitability when you make smaller locks under the ordinance you can go from two acres down to one acre that squeezes the opportunity in terms of slow soils and wetlands so each of the lots should be looked at to make sure that there's a good buildable site there without constraints and there are a few on this plan that i think are questionable uh the applicant has proposed to retain land uh for future development or other purposes and i think and with providing the 50-foot access to that land and i think there should be some discussion of

that how that relates to this project and potential future phases the wellhead protection district of the public well serving this facility as well as the elementary school and under the ordinance if that is the case then the school is required to be notified of the subdivision application and we talked about already scheduling the site walk and then finally there were some code violations on this property in the past in the recent past and it actually went to court it was a court order ordering correction of the violations and payment of fines and that to my understanding has all been resolved uh the violations have been corrected i actually inspected it and also the fine has been paid according to the town manager so as far as i know that is not an issue for the review of the subdivision

applicant to generally bring up if they intend to apply for any waivers as part of their application you cannot make any decisions on the project or such issues but at least it'd be good to know if they're intending to do that not as i think we mentioned there's no notice of running property owners at this informal stage and as i said no decisions either express or implied can be made and it did provide in the packet before the applicant submissions from gis analysis that they did based on our information any comments from the board on what george is listed yeah i have one you mentioned proposal to do a cluster subdivision which requires a more detailed site concept plan at the sketch plan stage how how confident are you in the sketch plan that we've received well i'm confident in it as a sketch plan but there's the issue of you're looking at it and determining whether or not it meets the design and intent of a cluster

subdivision and that's really a discretionary i think it's important to understand that a cluster of approval under durham's land use ordinance is discretionary on the part of the board it's not an automatic right so if you do not consider that it means the intent which is in i think it's section 6.33 which talks about uh the uh intent of open space and the relationship of the lot then you can determine that it doesn't really meet the impact and i wouldn't make a judgment on that i think one of the concerns there on the cluster is that's allowing you to reduce the the average size of 90 000 square foot down to 50 of that and with the sketch plan i'm not seeing any square footage on those particular lots that that would be one concern i would have now i can visually look at it but without having those dimensions that is a concern

uh for also the size of the open space i think this has to be one to one with the loss it doesn't for what's labeled as open space and what i can tell it's not here to and background some of the issues that i've identified good point why don't we let mr burton go ahead and do his presentation and what you don't answer yeah yeah i'll just take care of that one first uh as this is sketch planned i'm well aware that all these lines they already have i was working on today kind of starting to opponent and it's already long trying to change rather significantly so before i go and start calculating areas those are all larger than 45 000 square feet i can promise that and the open space is one to one it's a little the open space is a little more complicated than that you take out over half of the open space has to not be wetlands i think this actual open space is really nice looking open space now the wetlands

are along the perimeter of our property so uh trails along that and having that buffer all around the outside and this thing once again creates a nice little uh opportunity for trail system and to george's point that there are streams across and as i've jumped into some of the details today those are things that i've had to adjust and get that trail system actually work and working out where that right-of-way is going to go and um yes there's a bunch of moving parts but really the the concept that you're seeing there is is 13 small one-acre lots with a road that loops up through the higher land minimizing as much wetland impact as we possibly can and as george was talking about that stream crossing it is a significant gully the stream itself isn't significant i mean it's maybe two feet wide three four feet wide um and the culvert that network that existing crossing we're talking about i think it's a 15 inch culvert in that

that's been there for as far back as google remembers um and uh it doesn't flood you know obviously it's a wetland in there and it's damp but but as georgia i talk also my intent is to size that culvert panel 100 year storm and it's it's a large subcatman and it will be a big arch i'd imagine coming through there which will look nice and and then in the process of that that other uh crossing will be removed at some point uh so allowing that stream to kind of become more natural once again um culverts have greatly improved over the last 10 years i think i think freeport you'll see a bunch of when they put in those new big corrugated large crossings which allow you to have a natural stream crossing rather than throwing in three 36-inch pipes and calling that good so [Music] again with the buildable lots part of what i did today is i pulled that road up off that that stream of that finger that comes up into the

property there and you come in straight ahead i've taken a harder right as you right open up in that space and get us up into that dry area there's actually an existing this this road as he mentions this property has been utilized in the past and a lot of that was as a gravel pit essentially in a lay down yard so there's roads and trails that go all through there that um my intent is to tie into those as often as possible to again mitigate

um at the preliminary plan stage you would define lot sizes screens get 100 foot setback um you got a 50 foot up the front 20 off the side so yeah just finding actually creating those setback building envelopes and putting a house on there kind of like we did at bowie hill where you you'll draw in the the bunker spaces draw in the driveways to get an idea of what this could possibly look like you get everybody comfortable with the full build out so

concerns is that mr the large message will be everybody's concern is the usability or the quality of the open space okay so you know we've already hit the thing yeah no more than 50 of wetlands can count towards open space yep and actually on the area that we're building most of that wetlands is on the area that's going to be kept by the current land i think it's a purchase and sale agreement the legality of the real estate jargon i'm not fully up to speed with how that's playing out but that backlot is intended to be kept by the current landowner he's going to split off this piece as part of a purchase and sale and so all of those wetlands in the back

guys so like i said that the majority of our weapons are all around the outside of it [Music] has no frontage has it right away there on the opposite side too yeah the stream kind of wraps around that top corner of our property

what's your intent or where why are you locating that road in relationship to that right away the reason i say that is because some people put it right up next to the your butters and so like i said i messed with this today so what i've done i've taken that right away and those two first slots on your right i've taken the road i've swung it in i've put those two rock bots on the inside of that road now and there's no lots along the stream and so his right away can be the first thing off the right so this has changed quite a bit moved to look like i just said yeah i swapped those two lots over as i was wrestling through it so i would just recommend that i don't know about how long the sketch of things happen it's like the next meeting but we're still in there

sidewalk you'll have the updated site plan again that's part of the process you can't expect to have a completed subdivision plan now before you post comments so you don't come into it let me i think you could technically do this just like by the end of the year on what you think it's going to look like coming to talk about it and that is a sketch point and so that is i mean this that is what you have right there so it is susceptible to change will we be approving the right of way for future access then with this application yes that's part of the application yeah at the next stage yes in general we are approving right of the way

allowed to create a new blog that has no furniture proper street well but even then it still has no word from it it would be the road if that is a street then technically into a street if i turn that into a road but not the way it's shown right there right can you show me how to wait to take in oh so like i need a switch you can have this one okay so we've taken this road and pulled it out that way a bit right and these two lots are now inside here oh okay so these two aren't there anymore so this first lot starts here and we're going to pop that right away in something like that

he'll be your first right we're going to drive her into a lot back faster but what did what does that lock gonna be in one house so i'm glad to drop a lot it's not that three hundred foot of rope it's 53 acres so you get one free split because you get one lot if you take one lot off of 48 because of the council off by being wrong so you get one free one that's our first free split the rest of it the one that he splits off is being sold to purchase and sale which will become his own so we need to keep it right away yeah you just have to put to be the people to build a little lot and during that treatment sure so whatever this road is all i need is 300 feet of that road to go into the property

weapons and streams um first of all is the stream located on this thing in here i mean you don't the line yeah it's very clear wetlands report i got the one for like two days before the submission so i just put the wetlands lines in there and he also obviously surveyed the stream while he was at it because otherwise i went with the usgs which was like not even on a property it just starts at the street across it so yeah add that in with the buffer require buffer that'd be great that's my recommendation also

propose thought is the wetland delineation was done in january he went back out his gps did within the last two three weeks he had he had a few flags for our full potential and he went and checked those out in that back right corner he wasn't certain because of the snow coverage obviously what was what back then the ones along this side are very well defined because they use a 20-foot bank that comes with the bottom cover the back corner he wasn't quite certain of so again he waited on

in january and he went back recently so i would propose and this might be a vote or something we don't talk about today that we have this is a situation where we might have a third party come in and do at least a check of the weapon donation um just because a couple of things one is as you know there was a violation on this property relating to what we've had a couple of instances other instances some divisions that there has been violations to weapons recently so i just think having heard curry look at these lines not not a full delineation but just review what was done sure let me kind of following up on that is this gentleman a professional what one's delineated has he got all the yeah he by the guy i usually use who did the last one

said he was as good as anybody so because if you blow smoke up or whatever you your wife says again this is a sketch plan part of it is talk about no no to talk about the process for review so the way that this ordinance has been revised the lane news ordinance a couple years ago is to establish three separate phases first phase is what we're in tonight fifth plane review second phase is preliminary plan review and then the third stage is the final plan review so both from a timing standpoint as well as efficiency what i would envision recommending is that when and if you get to a preliminary plan approval stage where you've reviewed the subdivision all of the information that they've submitted and you either feel comfortable with it or you don't feel comfortable with it having met all of the criteria and standards of the subdivision organs then what you would do is give a preliminary approval subject to having

the peer reviews done of the wetlands of traffic of whatever technical issues we will strongly recommend that the engineering plans be peer reviewed as a standard course and then that information and all the peer reports if any you don't have to require peer-reviewed report but i recommend on certain parts you do then that would those peer review reports would come in with the final plan application and what that will do is enable the applicant to continue the process and respond to the peer review reports before they come in for your final plan so i think it will really improve the efficiency of the process now if there's an issue that you see is really troubling in terms of you don't think it can pass the subdivision standards at the final stage because of this then i think it's it's fine and work with the applicants to say look let's get a peer review on this done before we give a premium on our approval just so

we can be sure uh and again that's the one where you think it won't pass because it wouldn't mean it's a traffic stand or just an example then you could have that peer review done before you make your final decision a preliminary approval decision but i think in most cases it would work well if you did the peer reviews as a condition of preliminary approval and get those peer review for its factory funnel yeah i like that idea i just the only thing is as a also developer um like knowing if there's going to be any changes to any lines i would want to know that as a developer way ahead of time just to give you time i i feel good in the sense that obviously it says jerry but the fact that he went out in the spring i i don't honestly imagine if there would be delineating we might lose that stream and i'm not saying i'm not saying no sure yeah that was you that stream that's coming up into our property

doesn't run all year which isn't a stream anymore so but i i do i hear you there um i think this site walk we're gonna do that before prelim right so i think that'll help too maybe if we can get eyes on it and see what significant wildlife habitat near on near

sketch plan which part of this is a while walk down um so george did a quick gis thing and it's really hard to tell designations uh based on the state data would be the 100-year floodplain and the screen 100-foot stream set back yeah what about the water watercolors like a big that's like a big marshy wetland that you needed there and that's just not why is that is that just uh

are just the uh gis categories oh yeah that are tricky and those coverages are turned on but oh okay so there's nothing there there's nothing there it's just again the floodplain and the stream okay so you didn't find anything in the search then okay it scared me

the lighter green is the yeah if you look at those contours yeah that just barely touches the property yeah and i think if you were to actually delineate those like i said there's 20 foot reviews change flood zones aren't all

thinking that i have in relation to mr steve hart's comments on here one is locate uh the future trails and so we want to make sure they're usable and that they kind of connect to each other not sure that we want it but as they're drawn down it sounds like they're changing it a trail ends and you have to walk in the road to get to the trail so yeah i think interconnect them that way and you'll have to have a street crossing at some point right because you can't have a circle with the road without crossing that street at some point um so yeah but like like i said i

tweaked things a bit but the idea is to keep that trail kind of along that stream also the top edge of it so you can be looking down i gotta try to think more on the end where does it end in relation to that there are some stream crossings that we might even put a trail across a little crossing over and then i will you're gonna i think if you did something similar to that at bowie hill i came in at the end of that but there was a plan to cross the stream so that you have a lot of erosion and other stuff from that big market

real quick on the trails um about development when do we require that to be done in relation to the development of clusters so like for bowie i don't know if houses have started already and that's what we have i think someone could unconditionally so what did we say i don't believe there was any timeline that that was the issue and there's there's two schools of thought that because and i i don't have a horse in the game one way or another over the course of the race but you can either have the homeowners get to choose where that plant that path goes like after they've lived there and they walk around so whatever but

public too has been that if we're going to have we're making cluster subdivision and we're having trails throughout this property why can't we have a priority of having that trail done first so what did we say for bow week guys i think we said that before they built unlocks they had to have the trouble before they started construction where where is bowie as far as construction goes

you should look at the trail as being part of the project infrastructure so what i would recommend is that you look at it as being getting getting an estimate for the cost of putting it in including it in the performance guarantee which i think that you're concerned about making sure that it gets done whether it's there when they start construction i don't think is the issue i think the issue is making sure that it gets done and so if you include it in the performance guarantee you'll be right along with all of the other improvements typically they have a construction period for the subdivision it's no different than the road or any other part of the infrastructure if it if it is a required improvement as part of the plan if you put in a requirement that there would be an engineer's cost estimate for doing it and designed it like if you've got stream crossings on the on the pedestrian system

then that can be improved as a performance guaranteed just like everything else i don't know because before anybody's living there he's walking on the trail you know that way all of the infrastructure is there i'm thinking both that it is in fact part of the bond and then performance guarantee and then also tie it into the first certificate you know first certificate of occupancy or or whatever yeah i think part of that is the issue of that you know they're going to be selling homes to builders builders are going to be building houses and so tying certificates of occupancy for the houses to the trails is not necessarily the best result i'm talking about the first one i'm talking to my mind it is you've got a subdivision you come in to pull either or a permanent order or a permit maybe a misspoke it's pulling the permit that trail is in just like the roads got to be in just like you know or if there's a trigger that our earnest

says three three permits and then you have to go pave the road or whatever it may be but and it's also part of the performance guarantee like that subdivision we did on the rose room part of it so like i don't you know want it to be an afterthought where oh

just in general it's a very important thing i think georgia's just tie it to a permit or novel i'll put another one discussed but trails are easy to miss and the thing is we need to lighten the burden on the road commissioner and everybody else just go off at one time see that the road's in and the trails okay and then i thought too there are quite a few wetlands and then

that's true but if we're if you have to cross a wet area that's going to be a bridge or something sure right yeah just like that i think really i want to create these little logs for a natural resource trail it's not the greatest irony then you're going to build a weapon right in front of that weapon to treat the water running off this road

with what you we came up with that they came up with for crossing the trail crossing the stream and crossing wetlands as i recall so the same we'd be looking for the same orbit requests for waivers know i think we should um i think the biggest hurdle's gonna be getting that right-of-way back i'm getting that road street frontage

on the right i'll leave that with the first slot first 150 feet along where it says i'll open this basically i've moved those first two lots i'll give him that so he'll so is that an existing road already up until where it hits blue so right there

road oh yeah um i mean the right way is still going to be somewhere right right where the corner of the lot starts right are you where the first time keep going yeah right there yeah close this right here so there's going to be impacts to the stream and the wetlands right for that road widening well impacts don't count when they're associated with the stream crossing but yes from um but you're going to go from a little from a literal standpoint we will tackle those buttons but

is it 15 inch no so there's an existing crossing existing crossing see the break in the wetlands that right there there's out it's a walking road somebody went in there for some call it's been in there like you go back i think i said like 76. it was already in so we're hoping to pull that out why just it's not the right it's not a natural stream anymore you created a bottleneck right there that obviously it's currently not flooding anything out but that's not the way that street member was intended to slow or operate when the loggers came in and put that culvert and they actually decided based on any kind of storm or stream bottom or whatever they had and carried on so it goes away and you put a new one in where the road the new road is oh i see so you take it out and then put it south

protection for the elementary school so better sooner rather than later notify yeah the superintendent i guess of schools okay there is an aquifer protection district but i think it stops short of the proposed development so it would not be in the protection can you show that where it ends actually can we yes can you show that on the aquifer as well as the resource protection yep put that all on an existing conditions plan yeah and all that no i don't think it's um noted correctly on your application i think you're showing the district to be rural and ag when really it's aquifer

applications to be more reflective of current conditions this is just sketch planning so it's rra and rp and ap did you give it mr t barnes yeah firm all that stuff before the formal application and then also um this is a cluster so we need to check that box as well on the application

questions comments any of that mr p barge didn't cover that you want to cover i think one of my questions would be as far as the trail system's concerned it being a complete circle corner here that's a if that's a stream that's a new stream crossing just so that we can access this personally let us involve them that you know it trails kind of like starts there and goes all the way around and comes out and hits the road somewhere else and actually these new wallets work out like one lock comes like that and this one comes further and the other ones there's a big spot of open space here that would be kind of a nice little whatever people wanted to do in there you know you could have a table because again it's yeah right next to the stream and that be the spot where the cheryl head might end when you turn back around so a little destination in your room

that i guess the concern would be make sure everybody has good access to it yeah right yeah i've left the so the end of my hammerhead i've left that connecting through so anybody should even if they want to put parking spots in there people would stop i don't think we have it open to the public i forget why we did bowie hill did we say those trails were open in the public

in cluster and then we probably should ask that first well you know my concerns with clusters are are we actually creating a cluster because there is land that is undeveloped and that's the only reason it fits into that category and that and therefore it allows us to have smaller lots versus let's have less development instead of 12 let's have 6. well it's the same amount of loss

residential doesn't change it's still 90 000 square feet for a long time but it just allows us because it's undevelopable right it allows us to reduce the lives of it sure it's that's something that i personally value with i guess it is it's sticky because it is there's great arguments on the other side of it and it all comes down like what's the guy's intention the guy's intention is to avoid just to cut out the weapons and leave them exactly and sure like from a developer's mindset like that is their only priority from an engineering mindset our only priority is minimizing in impervious areas and minimizing impacts like that's there is a difference between a developer and a builder that's the truth huge difference yeah my thought is the open space piece right like is it a good plan

have to wear leaders to go through um you know is it something that people are actually spots that he's opened up where he has laydown yards and small crabs sand back there and it is very high and dry those streams crossing they're so well defined it's almost uh yeah right so if it fits in our ordinances so therefore we're buying by the audience what do you think right but we can we have discretion as to whether or not we we're okay with the cluster or not i see both sides too and this came up with um

truman truman day or whatever thoughts and basically just the access to the to the to the stream i thought made sense had they not clustered there wouldn't have been any shared space or connectivity to the rest of the property unless it was okay to walk over somebody's lawn right um i'm obviously aware that this could be used to maximize loss or do you know do things like that but i guess the question i have is in my head does this open space provide a benefit to the people you know i think as opposed to those the property boundaries just running all directly to the edge of the property and not having any trail at all i mean i certainly see the value in there being the trail but i just wanted to throw that out there because i don't know what you guys think we have the discretion to decide whether we want a cluster or not i think that's all of us and one thing i think is cool that i've seen in other towns because i know

there's another subdivision that abuts us is when you start having multiple subdivisions tying next to each other that you should tie all the subsequent trails together and you start to create a network of trails yeah only thing looks kind of funny on this plate is that the that one on the right-hand side is just the kind of a 50-foot buffer yes so you know that's going forward that's gotten bigger i've pulled the road up and in and actually shrunk to everything kind of the road does a larger sweep so there's a little bit more lots up into that left hand okay that would help yeah but it also gives you the space to walk to allen's point if you if we said no cluster or could you put was it 13 watts on there right yes 13 watts over and then we would have no open space um that was usable by anybody right you have along the road you should probably check with your client to see if he'd be interested in committing to the you know

interconnecting trails if there were another subdivision that went i think that was going to move like pre-trail mindset where it's like all the lots are fun there's a big jungle out back is you mentioned the impervious cutting down on the asphalt that's in the world and the runoff and all the gas and oils that run off with it so

i like the cluster because it does kind of reserve some open space and i'll just build up the whole all that yeah i think with the improvement of create more open space and that what's shown is kind of a sliver right now yeah will be a big big help bummer the bumper for the developer from a cluster standpoint is what george is alluding to is that the building lots of times

so it's the same the net res calc is the same you take the land that you're going to build on you divide you take off the the wetlands you take off the steep slopes you take out 15 for the right-of-way which that's that's a i love it

right away so i'm throwing it at 15 and it always seems kind of odd to me but you have to you have to have half of it has to be open space like like you said you offset half the land and then of that open space to mitigate everybody's concerns with people just coming in and making open space wetlands or wetlands open space it says that i think it's 50 of the open space has to be non-wetland no more than 50 percent candy wetland same thing right right okay are your pelts on here they're changing anyways yes yeah okay so it would be really good just as a visual yeah it doesn't look like i'll print those out for our site walking is open source outside of it it's amazing

still have another and is there any other big topics i'm sorry one more thing it's just it's just because um on the property um can you just talk a little bit about what that violation was for was it for i believe it was for not getting pre-initial use my right towards this there were two violations one was the business being operated there without the conditional use permit the other one was the construction of a foundation oh yeah within 80 feet of the stream and it's resource protection he said that his setback was based on our audience within 100 feet and it was only 75.

that's all yeah that's no longer foundation's anything like that happening on this property right now so all they're doing is building that house and that's how you doing this on the butter okay plan is not in compliance right now and he's going to be updating it and presenting it is it going to be in conjunction with a sketch plan and preliminary plan do you think you can do that i mean we would say yes i mean it's your risk oh all i wanted to i mean my my intent of coming into a psych plan is to get the big concerns and if there's any huge red flags then maybe i pump the brakes if i have to go get a consultant or somebody else to do a wetland delineation which obviously we've done at this point or if there's hydro concerns hydrogeologists keep them out there if there's concerns with wells yielding in the area i believe that's something i like to hear during a sketch plan but i don't think we weren't in

durham so i don't think we're especially through over awful protections i don't think we're gonna have water um because one of the issues that i was looking at under the 6.5 is the sketch plan c 6 and specifically talks about scales showing the proposed layout of straight smarts buildings and all that and that sounds like that's your intention too well then secondly to scale that

that just says it's a scale drawing right which it is i know there isn't there well there hasn't been like a completeness process but i almost feel like the sketch is because it's going to change so much like i would want to see it changed in back here in the sketch planning process then can we accommodate that during the site well i would rather us have a site plan to walk through though and see it because we're going to walk through and you're going to be like oh it might change it might not well so i'm hoping to give you that that new sketch plan let's call it for the site walk

crossing and we're not going to talk about trails we'll talk about trail locations again but as far as your big concerns none of them are all that i don't know i don't know i don't know i really want another sketch plan thing event but i don't know if we need to lump it in with a site sidewalk i think that it's going to take a meeting and then we schedule the site walk

is my understanding of the sketch plan and as everybody can as we give the petitioner feedback on the changes that we want made which i think we've done a very good everybody has done a very good job of today so now it's his job to go back and put those together before the preliminary plan but we have enough concerns here that we'd like to look at it in a sketchier form if you will

some of the comments that we've had here again because the sketchbook we've talked about a lot of things he's either going to make them before the preliminary plan or not but it would be a huge help if we schedule the site plan and you have that available because then we'll be able to see where the road goes and it probably wouldn't hurt mr burnham to put the acreages oh yeah square footage on the line you've got a whole bunch of comments from an hour ago

changing quite a bit and then we walk it without sitting together looking at it and talking about it all ahead that's what i'm saying that's what i'm saying i want to see a sketch plan that's got the changes before we do

you're being upfront yeah and you're in you know you know some of our concerns and eventually you're addressing them the more we do our fraud here's another because we're not going to because we did it next time anyway we didn't cause a month delay not through the petitioner's problems with change changing is it possible to schedule we need to talk about scheduling the site visit to schedule the site visited and use this some space to then go over the sketch plan simultaneously that we don't have two meetings we we have actually done a site visit we've had a meeting right after that and if everybody's okay with that we will that will not i guess my point is what's the difference between me applying for i mean there's not even anything to vote on that tonight is typically just checking the box so if there's no vote what's to stop well what's to say that i mean i don't expect to get billionaire

approval first go typically ever what is the problem with having another sketchbook well because if we because if we do a prelim next time and we go through the whole checklist then at least for the next meeting i know what i'm in for i know i can hit ever i can check every box again but if we don't do a full walk-through and we don't review the project in its entirety and we don't get the public's opinion then we haven't moved anywhere okay here's so we don't just keep having a discussion here's my thought is you give us a site plan sketch plan excuse me and get it to us before it sounds like you're at the sketch plan level and then we review that and then we'll go back we'll come back here as as i think the board has done before go over that one more time is that see that one more time so you're saying go to the site walk and then come back and come back and just say hey i think i got gives us a chance to discuss or we

can reverse my order we can do the sketch plan and then go look at it on the site plan we're trying to do that the sketch we should have the sketch as should the public before we do the site walk because the public is going to be on the sidewalk too yeah and i think change is i mean it's just there's a lot of changes here it's not well it sounds like i just was changing the lot size of this so a lot of times we don't change we don't know what the lot sizes are what sizes are all 45 000 square feet okay but that's that's whole thing's like so the point is that there's just not enough information so so i think what we're trying to do is we're trying to accommodate two things one is get all the information that we need the changes we need and keep the process moving because

meeting the review the sketch plan before and we can use this or eureka or whatever and we have to announce the sidewalk anyway and then we do the site walk does that make sense i want to do the sketch we're doing the first before the sidewalk yes so however that works out

you know i guess i'm one guy but i just think it'd be good to have the sketch ahead of the sidewalk so we can review it we get it the day of the next tomorrow when we walk through okay so look we're gonna set a date and then depend upon what we do and there'll be some period of time beforehand for everybody to look at because there is no vote on the sketch plan i mean we're just giving him his feedback and so he could go back to we go back and say we're really concerned about this so you run the risk of moving on to the preliminary i think what we're trying to do is give you enough feedback to become comfortable and so everybody understands just because none of this is guaranteed approval we still have to check every block in the thing so just because we've moved to the next step tonight so if we had a meeting five o'clock here and the time was immaterial we have a meeting here he gives us the new sketch

plan a couple days before that gives everybody a chance to look at it we'll do the same presentation before this i would say we'll start with wendy when can you give us the change sketch plan tonight okay i won't look at it so you're staying tomorrow okay so tomorrow we would get that sketch plan so a week from tomorrow give or take we're looking at a date for the um

tomorrow the sketch first yes okay so we're first meeting for that we'd be here first we'd go over the sketch plan i don't know if we need to do that step if we get it i have submissions in two weeks i think the key is just so we have has we're not getting

get it should we post it online and then if the public wants to look at it yeah i'm still a little bit unclear are you talking about scheduling another sketch plan review meeting or are you talking about scheduling a site walk it sounds like your schedule you're talking about doing phones that that was my thought and the question becomes is it going to be a special meeting a extra meeting or is it going to be your next regular meeting my suggestion is just to schedule a site walk in with a requirement that we get a copy of the updated sketch plan prior to that siteboard so we have a chance to look at it review it and prepare for the site

to do it now we still want to get together as a group and talk about the site plan we do that prior to the thing that way we have a meeting we get a chance to discuss anything that we don't understand and we can do follow-up with a cycle i would like to do that just because i don't have a lot of time sometimes between when we get the plan in our meeting like i am rushing right before that i you know i'd rather be able to talk about it hear things so we got kind of two ideas to do it which is everybody more comfortable with get the site plan the sketch plan tomorrow and schedule something for a week from tomorrow give or take and then have a meeting before the walk and then do the walk because we don't have to i mean at that point in time we've given him his feedback if he doesn't listen to him comes in with a preliminary plan we don't like it it's hit at his risk to just disapprove the plan

and that way it's kind of one day couple of hours combined i like your idea this would here tonight i think all we need is an updated site plan to take a look at and go to the sitebook so let's call it this then we'll have a site block where we meet here we can go over any questions we have at that point and then so we'll call it a sidewalk with it we'll just speak beforehand yeah tell the public we're going to be here for eureka or wherever the right place is and then we all load up probably better to load up in only a couple of cars anyway so does that make sense to you we're going to have a site plan visit that starts in a building yeah i'm okay with that

well i guess what i'm trying to get at with my comment is like it was saying it's good to have sort of an idea and have time to review it before you walk through a field you don't know what you're looking at so we've seen this we're we've got this in our minds we show up in five minutes before walking through a field it takes we've got a new set

the case now it is so i'm fine and i think we should try to get a special meeting okay so let's have a site visit we'll start here and then if no one has any concerns or if they do we'll address them we're not going to spend a lot of time be using um and we'll go then we'll go from here to the to the site it's going to be a short here's the changes i've made okay uh and if we don't like it we just say you run you know you come to the library and run the risk i'd like to do that in the next week or two okay before the regular meeting he'll get it to us at least by the end of the week right by six so my recommendations

so maybe i don't know if anyone wants to do somewhere for friday um maybe monday or tuesday at 16th or 17th remember um if i give it to you by the end of this week that puts next week in next week in play right 13th and otherwise the submission deadline for that may the june meeting is the 18th what june what the your next planning board meeting the submission deadline is the 18.

other keys points okay mr purple sketchy mr burton thank you now cut off so everybody who is going to vote so the five of us we need to try to make every meeting going forward of our rules is you have to attend all the meetings at this point so

17th but that would then postpone it another month for them anyway because he's got to turn around up to eight the next day he's gonna turn it around so if we had it so say we we're not gonna get you wouldn't get this plane against they would say that wasn't going to happen did we still need the site walk before the preliminary so we're still on that schedule no matter what yeah

scheduling it he gets it to us by the end of this week we have we have it for a couple days like do you want to do it the 11th or the 12th or do you want to wait for the following i could do it to toils it's working for everybody um what is the time between public

to publicly post it but you can do it as little as 48 hours before okay so i guess i'm kind of looking at the voting members i could do it later in the day late in the day i'm thinking because those of you who work five o'clock you know there's no time when the ticks black flies and mosquitoes aren't going to be there so for those of you

he can facetime is that does that work can you you'll have it to us in plenty of time and the other nice thing so i think we're looking at five o'clock on the 12th meet here meet here and then we'll have it i don't the historian commission is meeting that they meet here

center as easy as we can make it here and the intention is to take whatever time is necessary but to go ask any questions resolved so please look at it well in advance get our comments ready to go uh hold down the the title chit chat make those comments and then go walk the site so it won't be a full you know going through everything all over again i'll just be their changes and mr bernard i like the changes so if i get you the digital copies tomorrow

get the digital stuff out on the website with that new meeting ibm whatever time get that on there okay i think we beat this puppy pretty much to death so we'll do that again next is please and i think mr burnham yep i'm trying to hold down the idle chit-chat here most of it comes from me so all right the next agenda item is

about what we've talked about uh it'll be on the video for the town and make sure you cover everything so we don't have to go back over there so the next agenda item and we'll do the same process mr t bart if you would do an introduction of the bowie road subdivision changes yeah the applicant is seeking an amendment uh

ordinance requirements for amending or revising as a final subdivision plan first any changes have been have to be approved and you must make a determination that meets the same criteria and standards as the original subdivision approval if it's creating any new laws then you have to have to go through the preliminary approval process as well as a final uh if they're not creating lots like changing the boundary line um then they can just jump right to a final uh do it in one step it does require the submission of the approved plan which we don't have a copy of in the recommendation as well as

meets the standards and criteria and the applicant all he's provided is justification for this under the assumption that this can just be transferred to a modern doesn't raise any subdivision issues they're just the couple that are explaining your intent the question i had and the concern is that the parker schoolhouse road on the plan shows as a presumed abandoned road there's a couple of notes that are referenced but they don't appear on the plan and i didn't point out that the parker schoolhouse lane is recognized as a street by the town there are three addresses on it so i think the presumption that the road has been abandoned really needs to be clarified by an attorney the reason that's important is that my understanding of the subdivision law is that if land is on opposite sides of a road

public or private it cannot be considered part of the same lot so the transfer of the 7.6 acres intended to be two in the butter on the other side of uh parker schoolhouse road as i understand it i don't think they can they can combine those two into one law so that's an issue that needs to be clarified

we need to have the plan properly referenced in order to be able to approve it as an amendment so you need a copy of the old plan to go along with this new one that's what the orchestra is and that's one thing but the greater issue is as is now being proposed assumes that partner school is a non-existent road we believe it is in fact a private room there's three houses on it yeah so i i've brought that up with george when i mentioned it right the road's not a right away and part of the reason we're giving him the easement or the if you look at the width of that lot greater whereas the road crunch need is 300 i think we gave him that extra 50 so he could make it right away that he could actually fix parker's blood elsewhere and make it up

through his lot and often there is no right of way right now so is that something we need to have like a town that you will look at well it shows on the plane right yes can you can you describe what the actual change is like

right what is the hot road uh i agree yeah i agree that that is the question well i'm not opening it up i guess information as to why that road is a road right right behind the butter you had to make it a town road in order to have your variance go through on your property to build your home exactly so you have a private that is a private road and it's not a public road right correct it's kind of town road it's a lot of time it's a private road and when we um originally built our house which was the first lot in there um we had to put in a 300 foot road in order for us to have 300 foot roads and so there's 300 foot of actual road there and then there was an easement granted through one [Music] to the people back from one um one house lot but they wanted two and so what they did was we had made our road on our half of the proper schoolhouse road and um they actually got the easement from the

person that on the other half of park schoolhouse room and that's where the easement is right beside our little piece of road so it's like our road got kind of like negated and we now have we figured we have the road footage on their easement which i don't know it's a mess well i i i think that that's the key question here i mean we could yeah and so until we have the answer that mr thaybar is to correct me until we have an answer to whether that is in fact what kind of role it is because and thank you very much um it is a if it's a private road then what you want to do i think is not not doable if i'm wrong because that seems to be the question one before we get question one answered and it sounds to me like maybe we have that answer but so we could you're welcome to have your attorney confirm you know our attorney whatever we want to do i'd rather it wasn't the town's money uh at least see your guy's opinion

on what that is or you guys say it is a private road and we need to step back and do something different we renew that coming into it we right there so what's the next step george on that to the determination well is there any notes the applicant has a burden to show

can split it off during base so it won't be yeah scheduled the site walk we need to schedule the um so i guess one more time [Music] thank you make my memory of what we're going to do in the first job we talked about comparing the subdivision ordinance versus the comp plan and bring things into

together and go through that and then the other thing i would like to add to that if we have time at the end of the workshop are 16 years old and there's some things we may want to do a review of and decide um for instance but just whether we just talk about having the secretary the fact that a member has to attend every meeting is it possible that they just stay smart on a project rather than physically be those things are would be part of what i'd like to discuss at the uh overall i think they're pretty good so those would be my two topics for the um the workshop and so what what's everybody's calendars look like we're probably can i just read something really quick so i wrote down exactly what we decided okay so at the workshop we are going to discuss how the comprehensive plan how it's aligned with the ordinances regarding residential growth impacts

time and i again want to be a six hour event and we can always do the bylaws down the road that sort of a late addition we do the other two things first yeah and we'd be lucky to finish the two things yeah right i'm thinking by laws of different job it's fine we can prioritize comparing you sent it beautifully making sure the comp plan and the codes are aligned and then we can we can get into the the second thing which is probably a major discussion so two hours at your convenience and i know that's tough to find and that does not have to be next week so well yeah i would say the next our next meeting is the first well actually tyler

and i'd like to see you leave a couple weeks in between that you're not slamming back-to-back anything yeah the first i'm in the gym i don't know that's something we have to do in may there's plenty to do in may so i'm thinking june um

so the week of the sixth so other than that i'm pretty free of that work you might have don't have quick questions i just panic if the generator works six to eight 5 30 to 7 30. i mean i've got the folks who work in particular but i like six months but i can do settings i fight for it literally 6 30 to 8 30 gives everybody a chance to do what you're going to do

is the workshop here uh yeah i think cool should yes and then discuss amongst us you know that and so that kind of requires the other things before we lock in the data kind of requires us all to go through the comp plan go through the ordinance and make sure we know you know what things we were interested in changing [Music] or need to be changed not just or and there may be things we want to add or delete or whatever

grace to bring us a point of order question see that camera can i can i just bring up a point of order question sure or comment if i appreciate it you've sat through two hours well so i just want to make sure that everybody's on the same page about what's happening with that application for the site walk and the when i'm reading in the ordinance i just want to make sure that all of the proper people are notified if you're doing this site walk under 6.6 it says notice to a butters and then they need 10 days um and then down for this for the for the site walk it says if sidewalk is scheduled public notice meeting requirements of and then the statute shall be posted and public must be allowed to attend the purpose of the site walk is held playing board members familiarize themselves with the proposed development site location settings all substantiative discussions of the project and testimony by members of the

public must it wait until the regularly scheduled public hearing and or meeting of the board at the next meeting of the planning board the names of the members of the board who attended the sidewalk shall be entered into the minutes of that meeting to satisfy public meeting record requirements blah blah blah so anyways i just want to make sure that all the boxes are getting checked that people are getting notified

preliminary plan application phase which we are not there which we're not in okay so there'll be another site walk by that means pre-application i think it references that in uh 6.5 uh yes 403 and 406 talk about it okay thank you do we need we need an answer either tonight

them it is very interesting under the sketch plan and talks about that under talk about the planning goal of connecting the sidewalk subdivision at pre-application stage and it refers to sections 6.61 which is the preliminary right so it's almost kind of contradictory yeah i mean that's the public she brings up an extra point and we don't want to do it twice because you know if they notify

he's coming back assuming she's correct we can start thinking about something other than the twelve so fourteen dates right that's what we're hearing not more than 30 not less than 10. i think that's okay shall be posted the public must be allowed to attend the public hearing

and i think there's that's one of the things we probably just need to talk about because there are conflicting okay so just understand that the general requirements state that any time the planning board meets you must notify public and there are various ways of doing that some requirements are depending on what you're doing are more stringent than others the ordinance specifies that if you are doing a public hearing you have to do not just public posting you have to put and leela and paper so 403 which is referenced by the ordinance statute section 403 says proceedings be open to the public record of public meetings audio or video recording maintenance record validity of action advisory so i don't see anything that specifies the notice requirements under 403 other than like i said public recording of what you're doing for public record 406 says public notice public notice shall be given for all public

proceedings as defined in section 402 if these proceedings are a meeting of the body consisting of three or more persons this notice shall be given an ample time to allow public attendance that shall be disseminated in a manner reasonably calculated to notify the general public in the jurisdiction served by the bargaining agency and it talks about

there that specifies the time frame so then the the question is does our ordinance yes it says on the 6.6 6.6 e talks about the knowledge to about it 6.6 e you know so not no later than 30 days that's the notice that's the notice for the preliminary plane not the sidewalk yeah that's part of the pokemon yeah so i in that same section says if a sidewalk is scheduled public notice meaning the requirements of that title that i just referenced shall be posted so i think it's just a standard posted at least 48 hours okay before the meeting so i think we're fine for the 12 months so what do we have to do to make sure that that posting does happen tomorrow i will let you know okay thank you

when that posting what what is the posting so i'll make sure it'll basically be put it on the calendar uh and state with the purpose of this well we get everybody agrees with that we'll get the word out ms roy everybody else if you would help us get the word out oh yes i know you are but i ask anyway kim you'll get everything posted expeditiously and uh i appreciate everybody's patience and everybody's comments and thank uh waiting in motion

all in favor you thanks ladies