TranscriptPlanning Board Meeting ~ June 1, 2022

juliet cavalier and john talbot and then the next thing we need to do juliet is i think you and i need to vote and as a in as a voting member since she's correct i think you can just appoint her okay i appoint you anne as a voting member to the uh to our meeting uh the reason for that is she is normally a um an alternate but we have been hit with a perfect storm of covid in late travel with the other members tonight uh the next item on the agenda is the acceptance of the minutes of our may 4th meeting and does anyone have any comments about the may 4th meeting minutes i don't um then a motion to accept i'll make that move a second hollywood second all in favor raise your hand i'm gonna abstain because i was not here you were not here that works it note it passes too old and then informational exchange uh i don't know that i see the chief chief you have any comments fire chief not at this time thank you thank you for

being here um residents and i should explain that these are general comments they're not comments about anything else that's on the agenda so again if you just want to get up and say you like my shirt or not uh or anything else that has to do with uh planning and growth in the town of durham

seeing none are there any non-residents who want to make comments or exchange information seeing none our item number five is continuing business a summary of the may 12th site walk this is at the hallowell road subdivision i believe the new name is deer creek and if the petitioner wants to step into the room there we go

notes that you'd like to bring up on the may 12 sidewalk yes i did circulate some notes uh as a starting place and board members can feel free to add any of their observations i know john you were actually the only one that was on the sidewalk so uh the um to those

only one who either is not traveling or and i don't have coverage present on the sidewalk for you john allen purinton west grover and ron williams and met here briefly then went over to the site i was there as well as the code officer a new code officer alan plummer representatives for the applicant were charlie burnham jack doughty and johnny schnell the board explored the area to the east of dyerbrook the tributary and observed that erosion control measures installed by the property owner had failed the board then crossed the stream on an old logging road crossing to a large clearing on the west side of the brook and that crossing creates a dam in the stream and does not meet state stream crossing standards it was put in a long time ago that cleared area on the far side of the stream contained a large amount of construction equipment and materials from the prior business use that remained in violation of an enforcement

action in the court order town staff had been given direction by the select board not to process any development permit applications for properties that are in violation of the ordinances including this application staff my court officer and myself uh did follow-up inspections on may 17th and may 19th to verify that the site had been brought into substantial compliance with the court order and reported that to the select board chairman he sent an email uh supporting the approach that we had taken and then finally on the sidewalk the planning board walked the perimeter around the open space saw some of the wetland areas and then concluded the sidewalk so those were my observations the only change i make is i think the fire chief was there for part of that so if you don't mind adding chief trip thank you for that any comments from other members good certain one it's really helpful to have that summary thank you

um i guess the next item is new business and before we start let me what we're doing tonight is a what's called a completeness review so basically what we will determine is whether or not the applicant submitted everything that they are required to submit we're not going to get into a substantive discussion of whether or not the lots are the right size or whether the road turns the right direction or any of that stuff it's just there's a list of a checklist of things that they're required to provide and did they provided in what is is it a quality submission against and quality doesn't mean that we would vote to approve it it just means it has all the information that is supposed to or not and mr tomar if you would like to do a summary and he'd mr barr did a review

after the site walk for preliminary approval which is the next step in the subdivision review process completeness review and i transmitted my comments to mr burnham and he submitted a supplemental application addressing those some of those points on may 20th and as i said the first step in the review process and you mentioned it as well john is that the board looks through uh the checklists on pages one through three and if any of that information is not uh included in the application then it is an incomplete application and the board will not start a substantive review of the project

and the determination of completeness if everything is in there just indicates that the planning board has all of the information that it needs at a minimum to confirm compliance or non-compliance with the standards and criteria of the subdivision regulations so a determination of completeness does not judge on whether the information is accurate or not or whether it satisfies the criteria or not it just says that there's enough information here for the board to make a decision on and under the ordinance the board can request additional information and guidance given uh in the ordinance for what the parameters of those additional information requests would be

application is complete and part of the reason for having the completeness check is not just to make sure the board doesn't waste its time in review but also because an officially legal clock starts ticking uh a date that the board determines that it's complete it has 60 calendar days to complete its review hold the public hearing and make a decision on the application and the board can either decide to approve it it can approve it with conditions which is about 99 of the time and then it can also deny the application if it fails to meet any of the subdivision standards and criteria

draft letter of incompleteness and in that incompleteness draft i pointed to two items that i identified the first is a location map which shows the context of this subdivision with surrounding subdivisions and properties as well as its location within the town that's a pretty easy thing to fix it could be put right onto the site plan if you look at subdivision plans you see those all the time the bigger issue is the fact that the soil tests for each of the test pits of the lots wasn't was not included and the packet indicated it will be forthcoming and that is a critical piece of information because uh the subdivision regulations and the checklist require that every law have a soil test that passes the main plumbing code for a septic system without using easements on other lots or variances of the main plumbing rules so that was the only substantive piece of information that i found lacking but again you board members have

had opportunity to review the i welcome any points that you might have picked up that i missed someone remissed i should have started with this there is no we do not do public comments or public hearing at this point so what would happen is this is a discussion amongst the board whether or not the stuff that is supposed to be there is there uh or more as information is needed for the next hearing if or when we get the full and complete packet then we go into the preliminary plan review and at that point there will be a public meeting and an opportunity for people to speak pro against or ask questions to the board about information or more information if it is needed so while there's not an opportunity tonight there is will be an opportunity in the future and i will also commend everybody that mr the barge is is a planner for the town and a great source of information if you have any questions about the the information that

the applicant has provided he can help answer that i strongly urge uh the applicant and and the residents who are interested if you have some questions or you'd like to see something uh make yourself available to talk about you know how this impacts my lot or how it impacts traffic or whatever it may be and then finally and i've been guilty of this and mr tabargas reminded me that the planning board is a little bit like a um a a jury and once the trial starts

uh no one is allowed to talk to outside the meeting to members of the planning board whether it be the applicant homeowners whatever but if you have a specific question please address it to uh to george and he's very good at email or call him or whatever it may be he's very good at disseminating your questions or concerns uh to us and we'll we'll take them into consideration uh at the appropriate time along with the public uh public hearing just to clarify you said also to me but i've already if they reach out to me i can still talk to them it's more of a yeah i'm sorry it's just the members of the planning board yeah and i strongly encourage you to reach out to uh to the applicant and keep that dialogue going

hearings and public comments so when you say it'll be open to the public is it a give and take or is it just you hear what we have to say and then you shut us down and say we'll discuss it among ourselves and the latter ladder yeah

they don't get to ask questions and have feedback that is correct so you know stage that's why it's the more you can do outside of the public hearing venue the better if you have a question like i talked to the hoa president well let me and let me rephrase that you can ask a question in the public hearing and say are they going to put a fence there or are they you know whatever it may be to ask the president that we will address it did i misspeak jordan no i just wanted to clarify i think something that might be helpful is that in the letter that went out i think you sent a letter to all of the abutters it did indicate that any comments or questions by email in advance of the meeting will really help the process of getting information coming into the meeting and asking a bunch of questions is difficult to try to answer on the spot because sometimes it takes some digging and so just would be very

helpful if it people do have questions to send them my email is right on the website so if you would uh transfer those questions to me hopefully i could get you the information before the meeting and just make it more productive or we will address it at the meeting if if not if it is relevant exactly does that answer your question well i'm not in a butter i'm just a concerned person you can do that you can website's there for everybody yep it is

any say that it the plan is not about growth in general or whatever it may be it's a when this meeting is about a specific deer creek process or project so not being too experienced and you know well whatever my name's alan and i'm i'm the butter i'm the president of the kimber oak association and we have a vested interest in what's going on beside us and behind us if i want to talk with charlie or john or john's partner or other people involved in this in this it's not okay it is okay the only people you cannot talk to are members of the planning board

to talk about yourself maybe i'm old-fashioned or something but i just i believe and someone tells me something i believe it yeah we're not allowed to talk to you and about this project in particular we're not allowed to have private discussions and george has a very fancy latin name of name for which is ex parte so that's the answer oh that's that's a legal term

to either george or the petitioner thanks okay so having open that can of worms uh i will turn to the board and see if either member have any additional concerns additional information that we would like to have that's not in the package again not the quality not the whether you agree with what's in there just the fact that they submitted what's on the checklist should we are we going to go through the checklist quickly here or are we it's up to you we could do that i mean typically we do um but if we can if you you you know it's more time but you know it's more thorough that way too at the same time i mean i've got a list of stuff i wasn't sure if we were going to go through it sure typically we do i don't i'm just it won't take long it's and it's not like it's the first three pages and we could just deal with it topically yeah so we're talking page 36. just trying to go through your checklist george is what

your the checklist you prepared uh it's actually in the application filled out with the applicant right after the fee schedule it's the paperwork that i had passed and i think is what we're referring to and then george george's analysis is on that as well can i actually ask a process question real quick sure the required submissions for which a waiver can be granted

may not be required at this time but are we making the decision whether those will be required we have 60 days if we approve this thing today they have 60 days right so it's too in their best interest to know what we're going to require right at the final stage i mean i'm sorry maybe a misunderstanding okay so if you're referring to things like the hydrogeological study okay so my recommendation is you wait until you do your substantive review here to hear testimony from interested parties from the applicant from and then the board should make a majority decision because there's money time and money involved in those in those extensive studies yeah and there's traffic there's hydrogeological uh there's like uh mainly but mainly traffic and the high intensity soil spread so so that those are typically not you would not do that for a completeness review because theoretically the other stuff you have to have this stuff is

optional what's the days is it 60 days from now 60 no 60 calendar days from the day that you'd make a determination of completeness so if you made a determination of complete list tonight the clock starts tomorrow so that's what i'm just saying it's yeah but we don't have the test fit so i don't i don't i'm not anticipating completeness tonight i mean if that's something you guys are willing to put a contingency on or condition of i mean he called me today this afternoon saying he's getting out there this week so all right thank you it's just phone

through the things that are required that sounds good yeah okay i'll try to do it quickly uh 6.8 6.7 a is the application form which is in your packet the location map with the required information is not on any of the plans there is a a location map but it doesn't provide the information that's specified in 6.7 b the scale of the plan is readable the proposed subdivision name town and map number that was one of the things i pointed out to the applicant and he's added the map a lot number so that we can keep track of the subdivision filing uh their legal rights to develop included a purchase and sale agreement um can i ask a question there real quick yeah the easements are um

uh easements restrictions is that included in there was there that's a separate piece of that's a separate issue like existing ones yes it might be but hoa stuff i just i think this is what you're referencing i'm not talking away you're talking existing existing but again they've provided a document and whether or not it is adequate or not in terms of it meets the standard that's something we can discuss when we get to the substantive review of the product that will be in the future and you know for example i know there's some questions on the surveying if you look at the survey plan there are a bunch of questions about title uh whether you know certain parts of this are are under a cloud of title that's a substance substantive issue but they have provided a certified boundary survey so that item is complete at this point i guess i'm referring to this it says copy of all deed restrictions easements

right of ways other encumbrances currently affecting the property so that is just what i'm talking just making sure i'm just questioning i saw the deed yeah but if there was any it would be in there sure is that right yeah okay yeah i don't know whatever like that you're talking about that the ruling or whatever that was put on it i don't know if that was uh i don't know you're talking about you're talking about their easements

if you see anything there when we review it yep yep um okay so uh list of proposed deed restrictions there is a document in your packet that includes a proposed bylaws and covenants all septic system soil tests with logs with the map on the lots the logs are on the map but we don't have the logs as we discussed earlier uh the proposed water supplies for domestic and firefighting purposes there is a note on the plan that says that fire protection will be provided by sprinklers that'll be an issue that we'll discuss well exclusion zones are shown those are areas where you can't put a well that's within 100 feet of the septic system the names owners and applicant preparers and of butters and i know there's questions about are the butters names all accurate they go by what the tax rolls say and some of the properties may have changed names since then they did have provided wetland mapping as well as topography c11

there are no farmland soils uh c12 the number of acres location of existing property lines and site features are on the plans there is an existing conditions plan that shows a lot of that information water features are are located on there it's not in the watershed run around pond the zoning district boundaries are there george real quick so water features those are required for within the property but also adjacent properties right uh in uh let me see location of anymore an indication of location in a row again what we can do when we they do have water features on here whether they're adequate enough to meet the requirements or not is it is a judgment that you can make yeah just whether it's complete or not so we're showing them in the project boundary but not outside but in the ordinance it says location of all river streams brooks within or adjacent to the subdivision

complete just because we stopped the river or the stream for example at the project boundary you know it's not actually a usgs stream you know it's not as light like so that's more part of the wetland survey what those lines are showing are like what are the features that we have to account for but as far as like like registered and recorded and bona fide stream features there are actually aren't they start down below and so there's none like adjacent to the property not a usgs certified so i don't know what the threshold is there you know like are we supposed to go and map out every puddle within 100 feet of the place or do you i guess that's a that's a gray area so that line generally continues off the whichever direction yeah and then that site plan versus other plans i do think the maybe the existing conditions plan shows more of the topology there and if you get to like the post and pre-developed sub-catchments that shows

every feature within [Applause] like that the last two pages are brought way out ordinance i think those streams would be water features definitely yeah yeah and they would continue out yes and then the other plans show the streams as far as outside the project yeah if you look like this

but the other plants show it yeah they show they show the contours in the watershed for as far as everything draining through to us one so on the stormwater yeah existing they do continue out a little bit so it's just location that's a good question

that in the nerf application i guess that's part of your package i believe referring to actually so i'm i'm good with that then i didn't you're okay i think you guys are shown here boundaries and um the location with size of existing and proposed culverts and drainage ways are shown the hold on george on that one thing is it are they shown on this culvert locations outside as well i don't know i didn't put any no i i didn't include outside culverts like down the street or i think it's anything else off of our property so again location size of existing proposed culverts and drainage ways on or adjacent to the property to be subdivided so i think the concern is if there's any impacts sure what's it going to look like sure downstream to those culverts so we might so again i think when we get into the substantive review of the issues there'll be information like that so for example what are the downstream

like at uh hollow road what's the culvert that's there so as you go forward if if specific issues come up on drainage or any other thing soils then the board can get additional information if it needs it yeah i'm just talking about basically yep i do understand the same location of them is the base just where are they that's it not talking about any sensor and you make a decision on whether it's whether it's complete or not based on your judgment

how are we going to keep going traffic entrance one of the points that i brought up in my initial review was that it the original submission did not have sight distances for the entrance on hollowell road they've since added those the location and width of existing and proposed streets the proposed lot lines with dimensions and areas the proposed common open spaces if any there is a significant proposed open space here the proposed building envelopes and cleared areas the supplemental uh packet that was provided on friday after the submission deadline is the one that's on the board there and they've i think charlie the green represents areas that would be cleared on each lot yep it's a little conservative i don't think i went over fourteen thousand or fifteen thousand on any of those and then up to twenty any areas uh flood prone based on the fema maps and i believe the based on the panel that was

submitted as part of your application the fema floodplain does extend up the channel of this branch of dire work through hidden oaks subdivision and up in there is or is there new data is that what you're saying no in your packet there's a there's a panel from the flood the fema flood map i think we've discussed this before and there wasn't um did we go over this and there was i thought there was oh i see it you see it yeah so if you look way down the corner you'll see the little extension of dyer brook across hollow road and the the flood plain carries up through the other small channel on the other end of the property is not in the flood plain based on the female flow maps

and then any state identified significant habitats or unique natural areas the towns comprehensive plant inventories of natural state natural resources didn't show anything and i believe there's a letter in your packet from the main natural areas program that says they haven't identified any and then finally as part of the review process they will be checking with the main historic preservation commission to see if there are any resources in this area but there are none that we're aware of at this point

mandatory for a completeness package okay i've got a couple questions um so the boundary survey this wasn't done for the project was it it was like something can right yeah whenever dean had it done the previous thing that's done

called pinned pin yeah they will have to be by the end of this i think i've marked them as pinned but whatever is there we didn't go and re-pin anything the parcel shall be located on the ground and marked by monuments okay

question is they've submitted a survey just making sure i understand so for the police's thing it's checked but going forward it's a guy's it's a line but i think john is correct in that if there are questions on the survey that's something we would get into the substantive review okay that's cool yeah um but i i appreciate all of that now right that's what i mean that's what i would thank you talking about that so there's that and also the farmland why is that not applicable farmland soils in the checklist it's not being farmed right well it's not just farm it's if it has farmland soils the state requires that you map it doesn't say you do anything with it state just says you have to map it no no i know but farmlands and farm soils is there just non yeah it was all sands as far as i was i was our soil survey showed okay all right

because there wasn't any yeah okay um vegetative cover i i know you mentioned that you're showing how many trees are being cut but i wonder if what this is is showing where is it forested like yes and that would be included in the existing conditions uh

hydrocad report it goes over the ground coverage of the sub catchments and how much of it's impervious how much of its forested what type of soils it is so if you feel like reading that 180 page report it's the worst okay you can also add it as a layer to one of these things sure like put on the soils the soils map is included yep yep that dogs doesn't include forested it's just more of a um so so one point that i think juliet raises is the fact that you're showing on your plan the green are areas are going to be cleared aren't those areas already cleared from some of those lots right like mapping out every existing tree because it's so scarcely forced it up there show the area that's cleared right now up there yeah you talk about the lay down here yeah yeah it's pretty much this hole

not the road yet the existing road comes in here our own sweeps off it so it's actually more like just this these two lots here okay so just something to think about i guess and the rest of it is all forced besides those logging roads and various openings that were like yeah it's it is rather scarcely forested for sure the perimeters areas that we've kept green are the the more densely forested but the lots themselves don't anticipate a whole lot of treatment and your your submission indicates that liquidation harvesting did occur yeah and that under the ordinance there's a requirement that they submit a letter from a licensed forester currently determining whether it was done in compliance with state harvesting laws or not okay yep site distances so george you mentioned it was included where is it included c101 right at the end of the road there's two little arrows that say sight distance

this direction slight distance that direction says 700 feet i think it's oh okay i think you got a good quarter mile but one of the issues we'll be discussing is the offset of patriot drive across the street help support that i think that'd be good

then you've got a letter from the main dot where you'll have they'll okay your road cut yeah well it's an existing road count okay and we actually don't need a dft permit because we don't trigger any trip limits um okay so i think the street issue is more just getting the road name approved as far as i can understand

road commissioner yeah i'm sorry where is distance located do you have the newest one do you have a map that looks like that here right here then oh it does i'm looking at the wrong one yeah sorry i see it thank you and how do we know that you're not going to trigger the trip limit because it's 13 13 residential lots usually to hit that you got to be up of 100 something peak hour trips and that's going to be written down somewhere that we're out you're underneath the yep we don't need it for this but yep

uh we've talked about this before but the wetland delineation um to the board and another one be done or at least bring a third party in to review it just because it was completed in january did go out i know but did was it january this year or last year this year okay yeah but it was the delineation was done in the winter yes he gpsed it well no because there was actually areas off the whole back side of it like he didn't he only delineated around the streams in january and he went back into that whole back corner it ended up we had to if you looked at our i don't think she had submitted sketch plan at that point yet that back property that dean wanted to keep got cut in half because we lost half the left side due to the wetlands and we kind of get into the discussion about the what's the information whether it's good enough sure down the road yeah i'm just bringing that up yes that's good warning report indicates

there were pictures in there from march 9th still the winter yep fees and all of that the escrow those have been paid those are okay so that would be used for the third party if we wanted yes okay thank you and the other issue that's come up is and i think i saw that but the um well the school wells and the aquarium protection and the stuff i included her no superintendent that she did respond and said i have no problem with what you're doing so and you show the boundaries of those protections i sent you the package i think i saw him i think i sent her the whole site plan good yep

terms of completion did you have any questions on what i guess would you feel more comfortable if i had alex go out now and just do another walk and reconfirm and um i think let's wait let's wait to talk and see what we want to do whether it's i want to get out of it if it's because if i got to let him know or somebody know yeah i don't know whether it will be a decision to have you hire someone to do it or if it'll be a third party which would be just sure but if i could get you more comfortable if if you did if you if the board decides to have a peer review done then they might point out things that should be investigated right so it might be better just wait yeah exactly yeah and just since we're kind of starting to do peer reviews more we do have a budget we have a budget for peer you know that's not extremely big yep so right

right what they pay in that cover it's just not a lot no well it doesn't we could build you you'll burn through that that's right well it not necessarily it all depends on how well the plans have been prepared yes exactly yeah

okay did you have any other questions that you i've spoken with the fire chief about getting that reduced down to zero i think he's okay as long as i i think the note i have on there i gotta check the board but we can have that discussion next time yeah i've got a very narrow agenda here i'm trying to squeeze everything but for a couple reasons one is we're you know we're not a public hearing meeting we're missing you know several millions not that the two people who are here are not good but you know we'll go into a lot of that stuff again down the road when we have more people

may have no as i indicated there's a draft letter of incompleteness and a draft letter of completeness for your consideration in the packet just from my perspective i think you are there are missing those two top items that he mentioned one is the soil logs uh and the other one is minor is probably waiverable the um location map

with recommending incomplete and then with getting the rest of the information in and down the road i would also throw out there for the board's consideration that an idea that i have to kind of keep this process moving just some kind of decision is that if the petitioner can get the sale logs and what else is missing in before the next submission deadline so they can be reviewed by the staff and be able available for us that at that point because we have to schedule a public hearing and my thought would be to do the public hearing at the at the first preliminary plan meeting so we get the the resident's input and he can res the petitioner can respond to that in time so my thought would be um i'm not sure i think june 15th give or take is the next submission deadline if the petitioner can get the missing information in by that point um we would go ahead and schedule the public hearing for the july meeting i

guess we're up to july already i think july 6 but if it's not in there is no public hearing he's told me he's getting it to me by the end of the week okay we don't have a goal this week if we don't have it on the deadline date we don't file the you know public hearing information yep so that's my thought julia did you have other items that you think need to be in that incompleteness letter yes and i was gonna after john was done yeah i think we should be a little more formal as far as listing out what is incomplete maybe because we have to fill in that letter right so yes what george said but i don't think that we can wave the item that joe george listed i think you said john it might be waveable i don't think we can wave that using the site location right so i'm going to fix it yeah yeah okay yeah just wanted to yeah yeah that would be part of the non-completion right he's saying if that was all that was

there he might consider moving on but i think we performed that with the tps oh yeah so the things i mean i'll list the things that i i think we should include in there um so the the monuments of the corners of the property for the survey

which i'm not talking every single tree but kind of like george is pointing out an ariel behind it well or like what has been cleared you just showed a little bit of what's already cleared and what's pretty much forest that would be okay i'll put that on the existing plans condition i'll probably i'm gonna i'll fly and i'll put a new aerial behind so you can see exactly what it's like now underneath the existing conditions plan okay cool um location of all of the culverts so you've got the streams on the storm water plan maybe on that same plan showing where they're the culverts are located along those streams that are outside the property well that's defined outside right away until they work well so i would just say if you guys want to look at stormwater plan existing d100 i would say he's got it pretty well does that carry it down to hallowell road i don't know if it does and i guess the

hard part there juliet is that the whole intent of these stormwater plans is to make it so that what i have coming out of that spot right there is no different than what's currently going out there so how far downstream you carry out an analysis is kind of if that ap3 well i think we're talking the location of not the design of it i mean you're responsible to make sure that they downstream can handle it yeah but i mean at some point in time we need to say where do we go online to say if it's the culvert under hallowell or what which they're just point so it ends right there on the road that's the start yep so is it just that's where it starts yeah that is so flat in there okay and everything i've been talking allen i'm actually going to probably tweak that and send everything from ours down to the stream rather than letting it fall it's existing there's some drainage problems there that are existing which

is you get into some wishy-washy space there if there's an existing problem you know is that our job to fix per se but i think this is an easy solution where i just tip that road the other way for a bit so everything is flowing this way opposite this way yep gotcha right to the wetland okay so yeah georgia stops here i guess yep on the road but the stream can comes down to that and the major drainage from this area goes down to hollow world where dire brook crosses to your point that if i extended that stream all the way to the to the termination point or to hollow road to the there must be a stream crossing under hollow road that would be that would be the point and what's the size of that because this project is designed for the 25-year storm yeah but hundred-year storms what happens at that culvert under because there is going to be an increase for a hundred year storm and we'll get into those details at

preliminary and final plan i mean whether but the point here is should that culver be shown yeah show the call right here um so i'm going to add hollowell world let me just make sure oh flood areas are we showing that on something i thought we had talked about this and none of it was so there is a fema flood map and they could add the flood area on that stream on these maps just to show where the where it is it's a it's a contour going up through there i'm sure yeah yeah i think most of our lots are 15 feet above the bottom of that stream yes i will certainly do that did you say there are no current easements or encumbrances on the property currently i can only tell you the best of my knowledge and okay and that's a now how would we how would how do you find that out title search yeah right yeah have you done it none of that got flagged in their title search no see yeah that's the question i had i

didn't see any in there so i was assumed there aren't any and i don't know if any of the town's legal actions resulted in one of those that may be uh but that still would have hit this it still would have hit the title thought it was if it was on the d it should have hit the title so the surveyor should have picked those up yeah the title search would have it sometimes the surveyors it depends yeah sometimes they'll get into that sometimes yeah okay so they have all the standards all the standard is that has to this kind of stuff has to be on there we don't see the ulta right uber was the satisfaction of judgment filed on that litigation i understood two of those words i know the i know they reached agreement whether the court has acted on it yet i don't know

you got uh so we should probably look for that hasn't been filed it's technically an encumbrance i think we're all aware of it but okay yeah what i include for that just the the rule the town's letter to them saying this is i mean it would because i think the judgment was the judgment filed in the or filed in the registry i don't know enough about the litigation

that the judgment was filed in the registry then the satisfaction of that judgment should also be filed in the registry otherwise it's still an encumbrance on the property it available you might just answer that question i'll search for him yeah yeah it should be uh if you're on there or get off and explain right but it's so new too it's so new yeah okay so i've got this list uh in addition to the two that are in the draft letter we would add uh survey monumentation uh existing vegetative cover uh all adjacent culverts on streams including hollywood brook culver up to hollow all add the flood boundary within the on the par on the project maps and then clarification of the satisfaction of judgment on the court court action plus the two that you had yeah yes yep yep do the tp logs and the updated and essentially all i gotta do is add the subdivisions to the site location the existing ones within 500 feet or something like that

you need to make a motion i think we do did you you ready to do it with all of the listening the list what he said just as listed yeah as as george just said of the to determine determine and complete based on the list george just spelled out the board spell though right i'm just describing george's voice

i will second that okay all in favor it passes and then for the board my thought about if the petitioner can get all of this information in by the deadline by and by the deadline not by the next meeting are we good with going ahead and advertising the public hearing and then moving forward with the preliminary plan which would be july 6th i think and i know that because it's three days before my daughter's wedding everything everything is either x number of days before

two hours before the wedding seriously all right that hopefully was time because george you sent a little um a note about who can participate and who can't i only participate in the completeness review so my understanding is that the other two wes and ron and alan and alan oh the other three right can participate in the substantive review is that correct george you talked to the town attorney attorneys i don't want to put words in the effect but um this if they miss substantive that's a problem discussions which we've avoided this evening um we can and they can bring themselves up into the discussion here by watching the tape and all that other stuff we can then those three can vote on the from here forward i think at the point you determine a complete application if a board member misses any meeting where this is discussed then they should you should as a board discuss whether or not you want to waive the rules to allow

them to participate okay so i what you're saying then is that they can participate in the preliminary going forward because we still don't have a completed application i gotcha but missing this meeting does not preclude them from participating in the future this is a non-meeting never happened you know what happened you got a decision and does that answer your question then it does thank you um

conceptually have a problem with it with determining completeness and then holding the public hearing immediately afterwards as long as it's adequately noticed at that time the board is also going to decide whether to do a second sidewalk

public hearing second sidewalk walk in there twice at the sketch plan phase which you did and then there's an optional second one after completeness um and we usually have that sidewalk before public hearing scheduling the completeness final completeness and the public hearing in the same night

at our option whether we do it or not let's think about it let's think about it really logically here what is the site visit we just had one what is the site visit going to do what are we trying to get out we're going to have it for sure but when do we have it do we want more material in first before we do the site sidewalk you know or like what more like do we want to talk about what else we're going to require potentially like what we're not going to wave or what we are going to wave before we go out and look again or i'm just trying to think timing-wise when it would make more sense yeah i'm not i'm not quite sold on the need for the second one uh but does it have to be it again if it's optional but should it be like what you're saying is after the first preliminary plan meeting public hearing so you'd have a public hearing and meeting on july 6 and then you know i guess if it was a perfect

submission at that point we or not we'd vote yes or no at that point so just a reminder there's a 60-day clock that starts ticking when you determine that it's complete so yeah we're still in the prelim phase yeah so theoretically there'll be two meetings if you make that determination uh at the next meeting i'm assuming the clock will start then so you'll have potentially you'll have at least one meeting from there so theoretically you could get a third meeting in if you needed it within the 60-day time frame you might have to schedule a special meeting to do it or not so just keep in mind and part of the thinking to have the public hearing at the next meeting not with notwithstanding the discussion that you're currently having about sidewalk before or after the idea would be have your public hearing at the next meeting if it's complete and then you can process that public input in before you get to the meeting where

you're going to be making a decision it's going to be very difficult to hold the public like say you you uh didn't have the public care hearing next time and you have the same night as the time time limit on your review process trying to do that all in one night public hearing and go through your substantive deliberations to come to a decision that will be brutal yeah and again we're still in prelim phase it's 60 days for prelim then after that is final that is

with the applicant to go beyond the 60 days my vote is yeah public hearing next time and then maybe hold off on the sidewalk until after that sure we just do it fast enough i'm talking out loud do it fast enough so i can't do it you can do the sidewalk in between yeah exactly right if it's found to be complete right we still need to that's right public hearing is kind of dependent on that point well the read the timing what that does is if you don't have it in on the submission dates we don't we don't have to commit to a public hearing or we will we will we won't advertise we won't have one and we don't have to do it until the week after that submission date so i go back to you know on no later no later than because obviously the sooner gives it george doing a great job but he's limited in hours and there are two other committees that uh as well as everybody else's time so i like i'm fine with that idea if you're all

comfortable with scheduling scheduling the public hearing for that first the july meeting schedule a sidewalk at the july meeting if necessary if necessary if necessary and if i don't throughout the july meeting but if we have a completion and if we hold and stuff if necessary you mean schedule the date for the site is what you're saying okay yeah if we feel like at that july meeting that the sidewalk is needed then and that gives everybody else the opportunity to weigh in as well as how comfortable they are with the information going forward what has been done it's good and if it's not complete then we won't have the hearing if it's not complete we yes if it's not complete on the or if the information is not available on that date then yes we won't even schedule or announce the public hearing okay or if we get into the meeting and we still didn't you know something's missing so yeah you still will need to determine

the first action will be to determine the complaints before you can start so my understandings will go determination of completeness public hearing schedule site walk go on sidewalk next meeting is a substantiative review slash vote

july meeting okay okay it's my thought right that's that's my thought as we start getting into the details i think we'd hear public comments and then we would start to get digging into the details at that meeting um so george you said something about the butter notices and that they may not be correct um no um so so a couple of points the application says uh no butters have not been notified

you missed it by that much but they have but they but you did include the notices uh so the subdivision plan if you check all the abutters they may or may not be the current owner because somebody might have bought the property since last april 15th so there's a new owner but the correct betters were all noticed for that they would have been sent to whoever is on the test this is yeah that was generated by the town okay well then which may also be out of date correct so there may be a but actual abutters that did not receive notice theoretically they're required to send it to the last official record based on the town i believe where is that status

in the ordinance title search title search on everybody next to you list list to make sure that all the current owners of the abundant properties have been notified well what standard standard we're going to use we'll we'll i assume we'll all dig into the ordinance after we leave here for this standard for the ordinance yeah it's definitely it's not in the ordinance it may be in state statute it's not

the contact information for the town with the email phone number but as far as i know we were the last people to move in it's incorrect on the map but we were notified your name and address before you leave just per the ordinance you know the correct people for the i think we just have to have a standard i think and if it's title search or it's whatever the ordinance says and anybody who's identified themselves as new new to you all right so the next meeting is july 6th right it is so you have a lot of work to do before that

[Music] that we're good i appreciate it okay go through it all no i like doing that i appreciate that yeah make sense yeah and it was actually pretty quick quicker than i thought we did today get a email that is coming back through uh mr thiebart from the conservation commission so please coordinate with him or not

this pre-work for us no ann you don't miss doing that i don't know come on man who keeps calling me have a good night thank you everybody yeah we'll be sorry