TranscriptBudget Committee Meeting ~ January 27, 2025

working find out good evening uh today is Monday January 27th this is the budget committee uh first meeting for the new uh budget year um I'd like to start with the Pledge of Allegiance America and to the for it stands one

nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for members present uh John Talbert is under the weather this evening but I believe he's probably watching or will be watching the meeting uh short agenda I'd like to do introduction we need to do our annual election for chair and vice chair and then a preliminary discussion about the upcoming budget this year's budget being rather unique and that we'll be voting on an 18mon budget versus the traditional 12

month so we'll start with introductions I'll start I just ask everyone to introduce yourself state your name uh where you reside and maybe how long you've been res president of the town uh my name is Milt Simon I live on the stack Pole Road been a resident of Durham since 1982 and a member of the budget committee since 1999 I'm Jill Gaston gay I also live on stackpole road and I've been on the budget committee for 10 years probably 10 years now long time until

Road um I've lived in Durham for nearly four years now and this is my first term on the budget committee I'm Neil Barry I live on stackpool road I've been in Duram for 41 years and on the budget committee for eight years I think it is now um I'm dyis Brandon and um I live on Brookside Drive and this is my second year

years Don a church live on the old Brun Road I'm breaking all I've lived in the town here for 60 years and been on the budget Committee of and on but this is my second year second year it hey Jane rice I live on Bowie Hill I moved to Maine in 1986 and I've done about 10 years and then this is the last of my three

look Alan pingon I live on Day Road and I've been on budget committee for 30 plus years and I've been in Durham for over 70 wow congratulations well welcome everybody um next on the agenda thank you for your service to our town first of all um we have to do the annual election of a chair and a vice chair those positions do not roll over we elect them each here Mr chairman yes sir I move that not sign and be appointed chairman for the budget committee second second it's been moved and seconded that myself Milt Simon

uh um take on the role of chairperson for the budget committee any further discussion seeing then um I'm I'll do it if you vote me in all in favor and that's a vote now we need to I need a motion for vice chair Please Mr chairman I move Joe Cas Cas C

can say it right casan be appointed chair chairperson Vice chairperson for the is there a second second thank you it's been moved and seconded that Jill Gaston gay be elected as Vice chair of the budget committee any further discussion seeing none all those in favor all those and pose I forgot to ask if you would accept too sure too late to

it's fine yeah hurry up great all right well we're almost done so as I mentioned this is a unique year for the budget committee this is kind of an exciting year to be a member because we're going to be doing something that no previous budget committee has done before and that is giving our recommendations regarding an 18 Monon budget and and uh Jill and I in

chatting with each other just thought it might prove beneficial if we got some preliminary discussion about the forthcoming budget done before we actually are presented with the budget which I'm anticipating will be in our hands by the end of this week and we'll have in front of us the numbers to discuss when we meet again on next Tuesday um first of all does everyone understand why the town is moving 2 and 18 months month budget any questions about that it's uh Alan and I were we're chatting just PRI in the meeting I mean this this has been a subject for debate for a long time because every year we

deal with hardships that the the 12-month budget was presenting to to us the select board to the town because it was a fiscal year it was a calendar year budget instead of a fiscal year uh budg is it a July to June or June yes to July

July July to June yeah so the the so I'm not quite sure how what happens from April 1 of this year until June 31st June 30th it's the budget we're voting on so there'll be a thre Monon and then a 12 month and then the balance because we got to vote from no in April we vote for the last four months yeah we vote vote for the calendar year in April January to typically April right typically right so okay we're voting for the pre we we're voting for for four months that have already have already occurred which now we w't be doing months for the rest of the year Y and that's why it's an 18month budget because we're doing the first six months of 2026 got it so it's 12 months and then the additional six months yeah so the budget we're voting on ends June 30th 2026 correct everyone and to my

knowledge there there if the budget committee said no that isn't something we wanted to do there's no plan B from the select board to my knowledge we can't say thatd me we can't say that we can't say that because they are presenting it right we're just advisors basically that would be a good segue to um review view the bylaws of this committee because at times

um sometimes uh people look at the budget committee as perhaps having more power than or authority than we have um our role pretty much is to review a budget presented to us by a select board either yay or nay we recommend changes um and then those changes are referred back to the select board they can either agree to the changes or disagree to the changes and if they disagree to the changes we recommend them both numbers are presented to the town for their vote if the select board decides to go along

with the budget committee recommendation then only one set of numbers for a particular warrant um article would be presented um so I'd like to do a I don't know how how many have actually looked at our bylaws or if it's been a while we should look at them decide if are still good we have we have the um we can change these bylaws these are bylaws that were made by a previous budget committee um a number of years ago and so we can either abide by them or we can vote to change them these are our bylaws for us to keep or change modify whatever started so I'll open up discussion we got anything that like be of concern aren't we all voted in now for threeyear [Music] terms yeah but they rotate right but I think this might be from when it was originally originated because it says three for threeyear terms three people for twoyear terms and three people for one year terms that's a good point well then that was as of 1933 and

then it says three members shall be elected each year thereafter okay floor of the time meting to this committee you remember that yeah yeah I yeah I'm not sure that's I I do just informationally what's posted online is is this but there's a bunch of typos in it so I'd like to get that fixed if nothing else there's like I I've highlighted them all there's eight or 10 typos in the one

correct oh oh the handout Milton gave us is correct yes okay yeah so I don't know how they did the one online but I think they copied a document to a PDF and somehow got screwed up so we can ask them to fix that with this version who's them who's them the town I don't know who who's responsible for it I think Deon is in charge of I think I we don't have a secretary so I didn't know I didn't know who to do that so yeah who who does cover these minutes is that again done by someone in the office I think Deon does it okay we can forward it to the select board and they can forward it to the proper person the minute the bylaws yep if we make changes y yeah or just to ask them to use this version since there's no titos the the the outstanding change I think that should be made at some point doesn't have to happen now maybe even this year but it says in the under section three the budget committee sh

might by majority vote of the committee members present and voting make recommendations regarding each warrant article and that's not happening and I I think it's going to get even I think I think going to be presented less warrant articles in the future so so right now we're voting we don't have to vote tonight this we can in general the process is we're voting each department yeah category so we could change it

presented but not a warrant article they don't create the warrant they haven't created the warrant articles till afterward done done for the past what 3 four years my sense is that that they're moving towards an up and down go on the whole budget myself so I don't know you even need to mention a lot articles really true leaves it open to

whatever process has changed yeah we could change it to regarding the proposed budget yeah the proposed select board budget y a financial AR having having a financial impact replace it with proposed select board budget yeah

that sentence so it's saying we're going to vote by majority vote of the committee members present and voting whether at a annual town meeting or special town meeting we do it interpreting the legal warrant AR in that case I believe the waren articles for the town meeting annual town meeting or the special town meeting so it's the proposed budget that we' voted on in our committee I think you can just strike the rest of that line after we put making recommendations regarding the proposed select board budget

yeah unless I unless they referring to it's a it's a you know because there are other monetary issues that some may at times come to the budget committee that sometimes would call for a special town meeting so unless they're referring to well we we could say budget and other Financial issues or something like that hey select board budget select board budget and financial issues that come before the town yeah

covers that yeah to say to go back to that first paragraph then leave it at the the proposed select budget period yeah yeah maybe the annual Town select board annual Town budget last paragraph because that that's where we sometimes have

had I don't know if we've had issues or not but it's always been my understanding that our role was to again what we just referred to in the first paragraph we we we meet to discuss recommendations or proposals by the select board um where we I my understand was

this we wouldn't meet to make other recommendations on fiscal matters or not if we're invited to we will we don't have to be invited to we we're independent of anybody in town we're elected officials of the town we make our own bylaws as long as they're legal they can't stop us from doing anything

recommendations yeah I I think I'd leave it okay that's the consensus that's the key word committee to do we want to table this and then vote on it when we first thing when we meet on Tuesday just in case anyone else comes up with any further language or ideas since we just really didn't have time to I can retype it I can retype it if you want and bring it retyped next meeting and there's no rush right yeah there's no rush if someone has uh if someone thinks of something else and you just EMA email myself or email Neil but make sure the've checked off the budget committee so we all see it but I'm thank you Neil so that'll be one of the first orders of business on Tuesday will be to vote this in place and if you do put a revised date in here to oh yeah and then you'll have to retype all the names say of the

members which if you look at the if if you look at the email list it'll have all those names here if you're not sure check with one of us cool that's an important piece of business that we got under the way my microphone there's some batteries right in front of you bummer shouldn't have said anything high technology

pleas piece of business all right so in so in looking over the it's not just because it's an 18month budget but this is it's a it's a strategy that we're typic it's often discussed each each year that we meet um and that is how how do we want to address the budget um one way is

to let the let the budget be presented to us as a whole and then we go you know and then we we vote on it as a whole or go back we go back and you know through each through each department and discuss and then vote on it as a whole or we can have it presented per Department stop there have our discussions and vote on that before moving on to the so I'd like to open that up for a discussion what which which approach would you like to the whole thing and then go back um and either vote by department or vote on the entire budget there those are two two different ways of approaching it personally would do it in shs that's how my bra Works in

just departments would you would you want that but would you want it presented that way would you want just just just like you just Public Safety presented stop there let's do all let's do our work on that then move on or would you like to hear the whole picture and then do it in chunks I think if you do it in chunks and the person the presenter is there you're able to ask questions right then if we all at once we're not going to come up with the questions because my brain will be fried trying to take all that information and that that is that is the way that the SLP board did it the previous meeting that they had they asked questions as they were being presented and it was by department now if anybody's interested and you have the time you can certainly go and look at the previous meeting of the select board then you can pass follow to things if you want to I've I I do listen to those I don't necessarily

come to the meetings here and you can write down questions and that's what I did I printed out the budget that they initially presented and they had an extended meeting that night I think they went to about qu 10 cu they limit their the hours that they put in on their meetings they didn't get through talking to the department heads though did they I haven't been able to finish that meeting I thought they just went through Jerry's presentation no they uh Calvin was there and uh Joe was there they were there answering any questions okay I haven't made it to the end yet right and I think the way they had it set up was that it was Jerry it was intended that Jerry present the town manager present the budget and the department heads were there just in support or in case the questions were the I think the select but had the intention of directing questions to the town manager with the department heads being there to either

in support or add additional information yeah back them up that is how it's changing the department had to do report to the manager so that's right that's the chain of command so it really was the town manager budget which is presented to the select board and then becomes the select board's budget which is presented to us

last year um the budget was kind of funky and they were moving things from oneart dep to another department and nobody could really figure it out well you could but you couldn't and we got promised this year a nice clean 12 month budget so we could understand it figure it out well now we're not getting a clean one we're getting 18 months which is not clean um he's increased he being jry manager said he increased it he put a CPI in there of 3.7 or 3.9 I'm not sure which percent now was that on the the 12 months or is that on the 12 month plus on the six month or is it on the whole 18 months or um on the budget 18

months some of it's only going to be 12 months because the other six months isn't going to be paid until after into the next because it only got paid once it didn't get paid twice I honestly would I personally would like to see a 12mth one that's clean and then a six Monon one so I could and they must have it because they did it instead of this 18 months and you're trying I got budget I've tried everything to divide Every Which Way divided by three add by end add the 3.7 3.9 I've worked every I can't come up with these numbers so and I realize that you know you guys probably can but um well I think we all have I do think we all have that same concern but I don't think that you that would crust be on it I think they he'll answer the question when it's raised how did you come up because when I looked at all the 0% increased lines it was pretty easy to determine how they got their number for

the budget they took this year's number and multiplied it by 1 and a half% so you know it was it was it was 12 months plus 6 months and and that's how that's how the the z% that that is a zero that would be a flat budget a 0 per budget if because it's an 18 month you take whatever the dollar amount is for 12 months plus 6

months that's going to give you your 18 months so everything that's 0% they took this year's numbers the numbers that were in this year's budget and they added half what do you mean this year's budget 2025 they they are the actual of 2024 the actual of 2024 right but they didn't because we 3.7 or 3.9 I can't remember which one was I to go back to the me I think it was three and a half and it was three and a half okay well we is that figure in on your flat budget where are you putting that in the three and a half% that they talked about initially was what they were going to use from the fund balance to create a tax levy of three and a half%

differently than we we're used to doing it so he's we've got a fund balance that he's using and when when the budget's done they decide what kind of a tax increase they want by use of the fund and a half% that's that's what I'm willing Jerry said this that's what I'm that's what I want the the the town tax rate to go up if you will three and a half% so he's going to take whatever he needs from the fund balance to make that happen so he picked what what's the number there he picked last year we picked what

this year that's 18 months so it's a reduction and that's going to limit the tax levy to from that can I still argue can you what please can I still argue um in the years before we had a very huge we had $3 million in there which they said um they made it very clear that they overtaxed the people quite a bit for a long time so now instead of rain it in and kind of

um making up for it a little bit that they're choosing to use that and then use some more of it in in increasing the taxes for and I believe it's going to be really really hard I've talked to the people some of the people at the schools the state is going to be finding less and less of this and nobody knows what's going to happen with the state funding this year and the federal is that's going to be another whole story so I don't I I don't

like to keep using and using more more instead of figuring out what we actually are well what the what we as a budget committee had always approved and I think it was a kind of an error on our part we had only used the fund balance numbers we had used we didn't project out for the next year and that's what Mark Roy does Mark is the consultant that is actually hired as what Jerry would call him as a financial director and he certainly is is steering the financial portion of this but we have always when you say that we had been over taxed the only reason we had were being quote unquote over taxes because we did not use the correct projection of revenues for the next coming years and now they're doing

change actually so the 558 or whatever that is is really in that fund balance that they're kind of giving back if you will they're taking out of that to decrease what our our taxes tax right right okay but the the the challenge in that which was the same challenge we have last year is what sometimes you don't see the the bigger picture is that the very well is increased spending there's increased spending which gets covered up because people see a a lower tax increase and

that's because of the fund balance that was used and and last year I mean when Mark came on board he discovered you we've over the last Dozen Years the budget committee's goal was to increase the fund balance because we had been warned that it had gotten too low and so select boards were were saying you know we're not touching it we're going to we're going to let that build up back to a you know at a safe Mark came on board

a year ago and said you you know you've gone overboard on that you've got way more money than you need um and so questions like yours came up well give some of that money back well so there's a they're juggling balls because in a way they're saying we're giving that money back and showing us a lower tax increase

but they're also covering up increase spending we have yet to see you know spending flatlined which maybe we'll never see spending Flatline that's you know that's that's a I remember saying that last year that's not a that's not a real world because prices go up you cannot not raise taxes something has to cover the increase in just the cost of living but you can you

manage to increase their way of spending and have it look like it's not that that big of an increase because it's subdued by the offset of the fund balance and so that's well I think that's our challenge is you know is is differentiating yes use the fund balance to make sure that our tax increase is manageable but we still need to reain in if necessary what the town is increasing their expenditures on correct okay so to kind of get back to the original question um what everybody has just said is the reason why I would like the whole budget presented to me so that we're given the big picture and then we can go back into the individual departments and ask our questions about the individual departments um the select board usually has a representative here for each of our meetings and I think by having the entire budget presented to us which if it's presented similar to the way it was presented to

the select board because I was able to so far hear the overall picture presentation um he commented with each department how much they went up or they went down nobody went down if I remember correctly Public Works was flatlined um and fire department

and administrative went up um but I don't like voting on just one piece of the pie you know somebody came to me and said you know if Donna came to me and said okay it's part of my budget I want a new car yay or nay yeah we got enough for a new car but then you come to me and say I want a new trip C I just said yes to a new car you know so I personally like to hear the whole budget first and then go back and break down each department and are we voting on each department after we hear the whole budget that would be my request hear the whole budget then we go back and break it down at the same time I think we need to know what what the war articles are going to be if we're voting on each individual item like that uh it doesn't represent what's going to be presented to the town's people that's a good point I that that's a change for us right and based on last year I don't think we should be expecting it no I mean we can by doing

it by individual Department certainly we can express our concerns whatever those might be and but that factors into the overall vote based on what the article is and I don't know what that's going to be we always that that's the tough part certainly I think a lot of us are struggling with is we've always gone based on articles and the Articles we presented to us and what's going to be presented to us this year so we can ask when the budget's presented to us how they plan on presenting it to the town and adjust our actual voting by that um I would

still like to hear the whole budget before I then go back through and review each individual Department well I would also then think we would have need a plan B because I certainly haven't heard so haven't heard select board discussing you know articles yet unless they plan to do so when they meet tomorrow night to discuss the budget I think that's part of their intention because they they were basically running out of time the last meeting that they had and they had not voted on anything right it was all discussion so you don't think you can watch the select board meeting and get enough out of that presentation to satisfy you no it generates questions for me well yeah and I'm waiting to hear how the budget's being changed because I hope my elected officials aren't just going to I had a big term for it now I forgot it rubber stamp rubber stamp exactly I hope my selected officials are going to

look at the budget and make some adjustments or comments that sort of thing and not just rubber stamp what's presented to them so I will end up having more questions I always do Neil do you have an understanding of how people going to be

mailings so I I'm not sure what that means but there's going to be two yeah two bills and that was added into the mailing cost or the postage cost or whatever so two as in including the school and the municipal side no just TimeWise they're going to because it's an 18-month budget yeah going to break it up they're going to break it up into two bills so it's easier cash flow yeah

do like a three and a half% off of the fund balance um is that when they show us the numbers that fund balance will not come off until the very end do you do you have the budget yeah I think we're jumping ahead of ourselves because we we haven't been presented with the budget I think right now what we should be discussing is just how how we want to run our meetings how we want to go through the budget in general um answer questions for new people as to how we discuss the budget

how we get questions answered that sort of thing I don't I don't think the select board has not come up with a budget and that is what we are reviewing is the select board's budget so so with that in mind is that a a a an accepted merger of two ideas that when they come Tuesday night that we listen to them pretty much uninterrupted unless it's like a a general question let them present their budget as a whole and then we'll start asking our questions when we go back of reviewing each individual Department who's coming today going to be there questions well it'll be the town man it'll be Joe Roy the I presume the the select board chair and I would assume the town manager will come with him just for backup support the same way as department and and I wouldn't be surprised to see the department managers show up but their role is really not you know required it would be the select board chair with backup from the

town manager and so it would be the selectboard chair presenting his budget probably and you know again we just let him present the budget and we write down our questions and all and then as you uh I think referred is now

then go back by departments and now we hit them with our questions I just want to make sure that someone is there to be able to answer the question we have to wait for a whole number meetings it's his budget or his his meaning the select board's budget he should be prepared to answer any and our questions right that's how it's set up to be um so I'm sorry I didn't mean to any anyone else want to speak on that so so um Jill just refer deferred to how you know how do we ask our questions um first of all the you all you know Mark you were you were with us a lot last year you know I try to I really try to my role as a chairman is I just look as more of as administrator I'm just trying to keep everything courteous follow the follow the rules um so courtesy um let's

try not to talk over each other um sometimes somebody needs to take a breath as they formulate their thoughts let's let allow that person that courtesy when one person is done wait for me to recognize the next person unless it's just you know it doesn't always go that way and I don't always you know get upset about it sometimes just you just you just feel like you got to blurred something out but let's try try to be courteous and let each person finish their thought um I'll try to recognize people if you want to just motion to me that you you know you're ready to speak um I'll recognize you um and as far as the questions you know it came up and it was a addressed by an email the questions if they're not raised during a meeting and let's say we get done with our first meeting and there's some additional questions I know it was requested of us last year that the questions be funneled through one

person um cuz the questions are typically going to be directed to either the select board shair or the town manager um we really should be deferring all of our questions to select board chair it's their budget at this point um so the select board chair who's a civilian just like the rest of us rather than getting nine getting emails from nine individuals it would be a lot

um prefer he would prefer that emails just came from one source so it would be my request that if you have questions I will not edit your if you send me an email I won't edit it um I'll I might I in forwarding it I might add a comment or two but whatever you send me I would forward to the select board chare if you

didn't include a reply if you didn't if you didn't include everybody in your email I will add everyone's name name to the email that I'm forwarding so that everyone is is aware of what's being asked so that we don't ask the same question again and and same with the answer whatever I would get for a reply if it was only sent to me it would be forwarded to all of you is that sound reasonable to everybody okay um it's not it's we we should not be um talking to a

select board individually um unless you're doing so as a resident if if you're asking a questions or expressing a concern as a resident you should be a friend about that that you're speaking to a select board member or if it was the town manager that you're doing it as a resident you're not doing it um because you're on the um budget committee start

your statement with I'm a resident and your statement with as a resident okay going on pill um so I don't know Robert's rules so this is probably a Robert's Rules question um in um presenting well when the budget is presented and then we have questions and we want to make a motion I don't I don't understand I'm saying make a motion then there's a second which opens up discussion correct right and then the motion goes or it doesn't go but once once the motion goes and you vote can you change that can you how how does that you can revisit a vote you have to make a motion to do so so if if let's say we make a vote on our next meeting on Tuesday and then things we you know

during the process information changes or whatever and when we meet for our next meeting after that somebody wants to revisit of a previous vote a motion has to be made to revisit the vote that motion has to get a second and then has to get approved if the committee approved proves revisiting it so be it if if it's voted down then it can't be Revisited you can bring it up again on top floor as a resident and during the discussion you can bring up your ideas as well for example if I say the fire department should get 100% increase in their budget and'll be getting flowers from the fire and you know Donna the vice chair

and Donna will say okay I'll second it she's not seconding it saying that she agrees with me she's seconding it to get to the discussion and so then when I present why I think it should be that way Neil at that time should be like I disagree I think it should be negative 5% for these reasons and so you within

that discussion everybody can kind of present their ideas of how they think it should be adjusted or even maybe ask questions whether it's of the person that presented or you know yes Mr selectman you know I'm curious as to why the fire department is asking for 100% increase in their budget you know so any the the motion which was whatever it was during that discussion is when you throw out your objections if you will or ideas or whatever before it gets to the vote yes sometimes we there's a in the past there's been some like initial discussion right um so so let's say the the select board chair presents us some information and you have a question so you you'll motion to me that and we'll wait for him to finish and with there's a break then uh you know you'll ask a question or whatever um so there can be some initial discussion but it's when somebody wants to move the vote somebody is getting tired of the

discussion or if there's something if there's something um some other matter somehow has worked its way in and somebody wants to make a motion then you go through the process that was just described but we're not gonna we don't I we don't have to have a motion to start asking them questions we'll we'll let the it's just if if the if the questions stop becoming repetitive or if I feel the questions really don't hold a lot of Merit anymore I might move and ask for somebody to make a motion and that will be the way of cutting off the initial discussion I I'll ask is anybody ready to make a motion if somebody jumps in and we get a second then the discussion resumes but now there's a there's going to be a finite point that not a decision is going to be made that wasn't my question too can you have questions before a motion is absolutely absolutely like I say I will if it if if the question stop becoming repetitive

if the questions stop becoming more declarations as opposed to question yeah so I might at some point or Allan will kick me in the foot and to get me to do what I'm supposed to do and that would be to um ask for a motion okay so we are not using Robert's Rules of Order just so you know oh it's not in our bylaws at all we should we can mention it we want to but we don't use them right I I would certainly encourage people there are times and I have no objection if someone disagrees with a

motion I would certainly encourage whether disagree or agree encourage people to express their concerns and not just I voted against it there's been times on committees someone's voted against it and I have no reason I don't understand why they did because they didn't express it and their reasoning behind that could have swayed a vote the other way correct so don't be bashful about educating yourself or anybody else on the committee the other thing to you know to keep in mind is that this is sort of a dress rehearsal to what happens in town meetings we get to do we get to be in this dress rehearsal the the the town really only gets to act out acted out once um but we're we'll be you know we're doing the town of favor especially people who um

watch our meetings whether live or in person because we get We'll be asking the questions that are already in their mind um and so keep you know so your questions are you're you're you're you are a resident you're rep and you're representing residents you're representing your you know this community um ask what I what got me on this budget committee was because I would go to town meeting and I had question after question after question and somebody finally recommended to me that I get on the budget committee and rather then take up everyone's time that's what you did to me ask you know so get a lot of these questions done and and so that's a that's part of the service that we're doing we're s we're we're saving everybody a lot of time by getting some questions uh and that's where the town looks at that's that's why we didn't you know one time they someone tried to do away with our committee or or or um reduce it reduce

it and you know that's was in my opinion was absolutely the that would have been a wrong um strategy that's a good point you should I should put that in here in our bylaw maybe that we should ask questions that the town might anticipate or something like that that Mak sense well it's not it's not ours I think it's inferred okay bad idea um sorry vote on it should I mention Robert's Rules as as guiding us well if you're saying that's not well it's not we don't have't we haven't picked we haven't said where where have we said that we haven't we haven't yeah I just I brought that up because I thought that was how you did it I know but people do I can't quote to you what Robert's rules are I'm I'm the way I'm running our meeting is just based on the experience I've had being part of other meetings right but technically we should say something about our decorum and our rules in our bws so if you've watched any MMA training

sessions on committees and so forth they they adamant their lawyers adamant don't use robit rules as your um well no as um as your must I forget the language they use but I think the select board does say they use them but they don't and the town meeting does town meeting Town meting does not use Robert's Rules they no they use the Tom they use main moderator m moderator use main what the main moderator manles I don't recommend that we say that Roberts rules if it's not recommended for us to use well so the solution to it the solution to it is and this was from Bill Schneider when I was on the Union Church committee was saying Robert's rues shall guide us so it's not you must use them they'll guide us which gets to the motion part of it and the stuff people recognize easily and we understand easily as opposed to some of the nuances that most of us don't understand if we don't know what those

rules are verbatim how do we we adul yeah I think we need a lesson before we a decide to put it in our bylaws and B we would need a lesson yearly for all of the new elected officials on the our board well most of us the basics of the Motions are we understand of Robert rules I just followed what I was taught here those are Robert's Rules okay but they could have been Charlie's rules for alls I know know it was just I was just taught that's what we do here um because they're Robert's Rules okay so I like that language that that that guiding that will be guided by them then just a word maybe that's the wording in the select board by Guided by it it's not okay I like that I like that word I'm not opposed to seeing that sorry I brought Rob rules up well no everyone assumes you use them but the Robert rules are very very specific and strict yeah we don't come close the select boy doesn't come close

to using them okay but they say they do but they don't that's where the chair comes in and if he sees redundancy or you know we've already covered that move on kind of thing and whatever rules you use uses some common sense which yeah all right I I'll stick something in there you shut it down if you don't want them

that too it's a we've always been really good at it um but sometimes those joining meetings and I'm not saying elected officials but you can sometimes hear a hum or a response within the crowd um I think we all just need to remember there is no silly question there is no foolishly worded things um we're all learning here we're all trying to get a better understanding and you know so we've been doing it all along just continue the respect you know continue the support and um I know sometimes I

feel exacerbated on both ends like I'm trying to understand and I just feel like I'm hitting a brick wall and so I need somebody to really simplify it for me and sometimes I feel the opposite set where I like okay I got to really simplify this for this person to understand um and either way I don't feel silly for the simplification I think it's a it's a good way again through the dress rehearsal to figure out what within the budget is complicated what within the budget is easy and you know get a better understanding of it I feel a little stupid on this whole thing I so used to on the budget Committee in the past we had salaries you could see them you could see what they were getting for raises you could see what we increased and we're not getting any of the details that we used to get and now we're going to throw in 18 months and I'm sorry but I'm still stuck on the 3o whatever CPI um that he increased it I thought

I'll have to go back and listen along with your budget wages um yeah well and so it trying to figure it all out and decio what's what along with looking back in the past on what was said and things just don't sometimes don't make sense to me so um so I don't know if you have or haven't but but certainly watching you know select board meetings up to the present I I find helpful I don't come in person but it doesn't mean I don't watch him um so when the the the D the directive that the select board gave the town manager in preparing his

budget was that they wanted um to see uh the wages increase so their director if I have my notes here mean they they already said that they they were they were going to be appr in approval of of cost of living adjustments um but that otherwi and they also wanted to increase um a person in the office so they wanted to go from a a three man threers staff back to a four-person staff that's changed that's changed okay thank you um but that otherwise they wanted no other major changes to the 18th month budget they what what what the select board told this would have been two meetings ago with the the director of the select board gave the town manager was they wanted a baseline budget so the only increases they were going to approve at that time were pretty much for wages cost of living adjustments um that's not what I saw when the town manager presented his budget back to the select board and yet the

select board seemed to be in love with what they were presenting they haven't voted so you can't make assumptions there I stand corrected so can I yes please so I see Don's frustration in that and I'm I haven't watched the meeting so all I'm going by is what you're saying that they're looking at like a 3 and a half% increase um across the board um

so for me being on the committee for as many years as I had you used to go line by line and somebody you would say we need this this year but it won't be in there next year well that kind of throws out the window if we're just doing a three and a half% increase on on whatever's

currently there so I don't think they're being prudent in looking at specifics of of where the money is going but that's my own personal opinion but that's I believe and the one of the frustrations I share with you donor is that over the years the pre previous select boards have always found this I don't know if need is the right word but but found it perfectly acceptable to minimize the number of lines so that the everything started getting condensed and merged and lines seemed to disappear because it was just easier I don't know if easier I don't know I can't remember what their intent was but it was like a need to know type thing and I thought to me you know the way we used to we used to know every single line and I I liked that I like that transparency now you see a line and it's composed of what used to be you know four five six other lines so but it's that's we well we have to be careful

about you know we all do it and say well we well we used to do it this way or you know this everything is history we've got to we've got to deal with what we have today and but I want transparency well then you have to I guess that has come out in your questions transparency if you're not getting what they're actually spending the money on all they're saying is here's my budget and and maybe I'm totally wrong but here's my budget I'm increasing it by three and a half% well what is that paying for and I'm pretty fool I want to know what we're spending keep in mind though that whatever so that this committee can recommend changes we can we can recommend reductions um but that doesn't have

all we only have control over the the the the total for that department the the reductions that we might recommend within a Department's budget can be made any way but how how can we intelligently make a discussion to lower a budget if we have no idea what they're spending money on well we do we have some idea Phil I recognize well so is that is that how we would ask the questions if we aren't sure well what does that include I mean I want to be respectful but at the same time because I'm new at this and I don't know is that okay to ask that question how how do we Absol what's included in that yeah um yeah and I I think that is perfectly fine to ask and and it it may have been inter

interpreted in the in the past as feeling like an attack or feeling like we're going beyond our job description but again if we don't ask it then a resident will ask it so you know I do you know just as an example there's

one person that I've been interacting with this whole time I've been in the town and to see how the budget has adjusted and to see how their presentation has adjusted based on questions that the select board asked based on questions that we asked if you could almost take their presentations from the very beginning of the budget to when it's presented to town meeting it it really was a bunch of rough drafts that got smoothed out into their final presentation um and it's even been visible to me over the years you know you started out with a a middle school writer and now you got a senior writer type of thing um so hopefully they don't get frustrated with us hopefully they understand why we're asking these questions and that you know we're asking to understand and I think we have to also be careful with our presentation and with the way we're asking our questions that we do remind them we're asking to understand we're

not asking because we don't trust you we're not asking because we think you're devious we're asking to understand and noil so they did not do a 3 and a half% across the board increase I don't know where that even came from but that's they didn't do that so just someone say that I didn't make it up well huh total to no no they didn't

three and half three and half has got nothing to do with the increases except except for the wages I listened to the meeting and it said something about the CPI he was put like I said 7 3.9 3.5 well if you had the front page of this their budget you'd see that they used they they wanted to keep the property tax levy at a 3 and a half%

increase so they used $580,000 from the fund the fund to do that like we did last year corre that's all they did that's got nothing to do with ta with what they're spending it's limiting what they what the tax rate is going to be meaning that the spend they spending could have been increased we can and yet they're showing a three and a half in% increase because they're offsetting off the the the increase is being offsetted by taking monies from the fund balance corre which what we've always done but it's always been very no we haven't always done that Tak money we that but that was a significant part of the strategy for for last year's budget we spent a lot of time discussing that so let me just keep going here a little bit um so Jerry said there is a decrease in in Municipal spending at the time at when he presented the budget to the select board I have that in my notes too it's not true but said I have in my

notes that the the target tax levy is 3.5% CPI so used the fund balance to get the 3.5% and not increase taxes to the town I also have payroll is up 3.5% and overall spending is down 1% then when he went through it not spending budget okay I when I took my notes I wrote spending that's what Jer said but it's not true um and then under expenses the administrative Department that he presented is up 133% he says that's due to wages benefits and a new HR person General government is up 13% I didn't understand the reasonings there public safety is up 133% and didn't understand all the details there except minimum wage has gone up 50 cents an hour and Public Works is up 2.9% well they did talk about all that stuff but my my second point was going to be if you look if you had the budget with you for example on their summary page they have funding requirements like like they had last year first page first page first

page funding requirements General government public safety okay if you go to the spending breakdown they have General government Administration and they list the details so I don't I mean to me this is not detail I don't need more detail than this all right I agree so for myself I'm not going to get into counting pencils and we used to do that why are you doing because we always did so when when they do present this next next Tuesday we're here we can ask some questions about that e by line you know the wag is going three and we want three and half% increase maybe we want two and a half we can recommend that but they're all there but each one isn't 3 and half% the only one three and half% is Wages some of them are up some are down right so he didn't do the overall at three and a half no thank you no no and and I don't I have some questions about it too because the the total funding requ requirements are are

down 6% which is legit but I think it's down because of uh the use of the fund I don't quite get it I need to have some questions there but the mill rate went up yeah it did but we could we we can we can eliminate that if we want to we can make that go away we can suggest that this this budget that we printed um

I know I went to that meeting and they when they were reviewing it had updated it yeah um I guess on their system and there it wasn't anywhere that we could print that it wasn't in the agenda right and so I don't know if this this is not updated but it's close yeah so and it was I mean based on way was close

wasn't so I would request when they do get the budget to us ask for it in a spreadsheet for me if nothing else I mean if if if everything goes as planned or as we would hope if the select board is meeting tomorrow night and considering the town office is closed on Friday we should be getting an email on Thursday saying come pick up the budgets worst case scenario is is you know we'll be contacted Monday I I would be concerned if we don't get an email till Tuesday saying we can combine pick up the budgets I think that would be very unfair um we we the the the whole the whole this this whole plan of how this process is going to work was laid out over a month ago so best scenario is uh you get an email on Thursday that go by the town office to pick up the budget um otherwise hopefully Monday we'll be able to get it yes correction there is no picking up of a budget we're not getting a printed budget we haven't for a couple

years now it gets emailed to us oh we can request a printed version did Comey last year we were told to printed ourselves there's no money in the budget for [Music] that exactly I'm so but the request I need to make is when once they announce that the budget is ready or they send it to us most likely we're going to get a PDF and you would like me to reply back right away that we would we would prefer a spreadsheet well add spreadsheet CSV file and a PDF please and include a spreadsheet okay specifically CSV CSV yeah because

that's spreadsheet that's theet yeah because that talks to Excel or Google Sheets so for whatever program things if you want if you want to break down the budget when you get it this is I I did this it works if you take the manager's budget number with a couple of exceptions like the county tax there's only one year in there yeah right but

all are pretty much 18 months if you take 18 months divide it by three multiply times two you're going to get 12 months then you then I compare that to actual and budget of 2024 that'll give you the right numbers that'll give you what you're looking for okay actually it won't no because there are some aspects that are paid for once and there are some aspects that are paid for twice for instance Public Works in this 18-month budget we're only Paving once so if you to take the Public Works budget and do that math is going to seem like his budget is extremely low and that's because we're not paying for Paving in 2026 until the 2026 town

meeting okay that might be an exception but rest of will work everything I have that to yeah so to do an apple class um the other thing I just I just want to throw in um an opinion for looking for the supplemental sheet do anyone print that I

believe it scholarship request which they said they're not going to have this year correct or they hadn't hadn't as of yet I wouldn't be surprised if it showed up but I was going to suggest that we take instead of giving it to the scholarship fund

page it was a supplement they called number on it in the agenda yeah I don't need it take and this is a result of on this Vision committee they would take some of that money and give it to the little league and that field they have they have a problem there here it is they

askre I don't think we can unless they ask for the money I don't I don't think we can give it to anybody unless they ask for it ahead of time was an increased recognition we get ask for it I get ask for it then well and I don't know if it would have to be done in two steps because if let's say they did request the $10,000 um so I the recommendation is either yay or nay or it's it's a recommendation of $5,000 or whatever the amount may be but then it's a new recommendation that funding be provided to the softball field I don't think you can make that transition not that's not the word it can't be attached to if if they make a request $10,000 for a scholarship I don't think you can say I want to take half of that money I think it has to be a new request You' want to make the a new request so you either yay or nay or recommend a different figure for the scholarship fund and then a new request

for funding a new recommendation for funding for the softball for the for the playground for the leag play play baseball field thank you gotcha oh yeah okay that yeah last year there was 16,700 in community services donations is what it was as okay so I got to get the guy to make a request for more money than he's asking it yes

request we can make a recommendation to I don't know that he has actually so find out I think typically hav hasn't monies that have come in through uh Recreation hasn't those monies been used for the ball fields I that in the budget you'd have to ask that question yeah anything else on people's mind tonight

yeah um the Freedom of Information Act thing hasn't been presented to us yet so there's no point in discussion okay it's very it's very easy to do if you guys have the link you can you can print out the sheet and there are a couple of op options you can actually go to a course or you can just go through check off the frequently asked questions check that off sign you done well I guess my question is why what's the purpose of that why do we need to do that state law state because what state and has been for several years we should have been doing this for years why that why is it person why do

we need to do that this year if it's been state law for how long because they're finally catching up with I think I was made to take a class years ago when you got elected Town paid for it yeah supposedly when you get elected you're supposed to take a class I was I never have and that's good for as long as you're in that position I don't know because I haven't been [Music]

committees no it was presented at the at the select board meeting that all committee members select board and all committee members should do it and but we haven't can correct me the Committees have not been presented with what exactly it is the select board wants us to do because as Alan kind of implied there's lots of different ways to get the credit so we're waiting my understanding is we're waiting from to hear from the select board as to exactly what course they want us to take or what little sheet they want us to read so that's why I say there's no point in worrying about it to we actually told because I don't know if we all get to fly to Florida for three days on a on a educational seminar or that's not in

the budget can't even get a printed out budget I hear you I hear you but you know so that doesn't hinder us from doing our budget committee job though does it no if we don't do it no we're here to do our job it's a requirement to be a budget commit committee when they give it to us so basically I've scheduled um based on previous years's

activities I I we we've we've got three meetings scheduled um we have often been able to um get our business done in two meetings and it was occasionally didn't need the third meeting um we needed the third meeting last year and I Su suspect we would this year become because again to review the process the town the select board chair is going to present a budget to us we're going to make recommendations which might include uh

back to the select board and and the the the line names the Departments the budgets that have been changed the select board will review and may decide um further changes if they make further changes to the budget it gets sent back to us um we well we can decide to whether or not we want to discuss those changes um but if we decide we want to review the additional changes the select board has made to their budget that's the reason for the third meeting and that's also an opportunity as was brought up earlier in this meeting if somebody wanted to revisit a vote that would be the opportunity um we shouldn't need more than those those three meetings and one way to so that we don't is just when we start the process next week try not to go too deep into the weeds um B again because of just something I mentioned a moment ago we can we make recommendations and we may make recomend you know if we're talking

about reductions we we may recommend you know where those deductions could be made but they could if if if if that budget was approved the deductions could come anywhere from within that that budget so rather than us get too buried in if we you know when we're looking at a Department's budget and we want that budget reduced by 10,000 100,000 whatever that number is leave it at that um don't go too you know that would rather than get into further and further I want reductions here and I want reductions here I want reductions here have your notes ready so that if you're going to make a motion if let's say you've already decided there's there are three line items that we can get adjusted have that final amount ready for your motion and make that your motion because that would you have to be able to explain that to it would be helpful I mean because somebody could could say I want a reduction of

$10,000 somebody can make a motion say I want a reduction of $110,000 in this in this particular Department that person doesn't have to give a reason and we're going to vote on you know the committee will vote on whether we want to approve that or not but I'm just saying if if do your

homework would be if you if you're trying to you're thinking a particular Department's budget is too high so you want to figure out well what's you know I want to justify I want that I want that reduced by $10,000 to us have do your homework saying you know in your mind well you know this this this line of 7,000 doesn't should really they only need five and this line of 4,000 really only needs to be two get all that done ahead of time so that way when you come and make your motion your motion is the amount of money you want to have that budget line reduced by does that make sense I can confuse myself sometimes and it's if you can because sometimes you don't understand the budget until it's presented so which is why I like to have the entire budget presented before I then go through each department and you don't if it's you can also go with the theory of you know the CPI index for

2024 is you know 7% and they're only asking for they only calculated it for 3 .5% so I'm recommending we increase it by 3.5% there's your reasoning you know or the opposite um so you can do kind of that homework ahead of time if that's kind of your theory as to how you want to adjust the budget versus line by line so I'm sorry go ahead is it really GNA M I mean

like I maybe the onee thing might be okay um but the six Monon thing I think we should have done away with it by the six months how do I get this um okay like the accountant okay we were only going to have them for one year now we've got them for two or three so he can finish out the following year but on the six month one I think that should be cut because by then the TOs people the office people should know what they're doing so if I'm going to say I

example just an example yeah so if you know you can certainly ask the clarification question of you know the fire department wants to have two assistant Chiefs for the 2025 year but by 2026 he's going to have figured out which assistant he wants to keep um you can ask the clarification question does this budget reflect that did you take out the second assistant chief for the 2026 portion of the budget or is he still in there she's still in there they still in there it's still in there the opposite way okay so don was the accountant thing just an example or is that what you think was going to happen oh that's what I feel should happen because we were only bringing Mark in for one year and now we're bringing in for another year and we've given him a title yeah well Jerry should have had the title he should he's a financial person but I mean you we're not I didn't think we were going to keep him forever

you know so I think after 3 years now if we going on to the fourth year you know we get a get off the pot for lack of anything else to say sorry so just so I understand so we we are in agreement that we're um we'll explain to the select board chair that we're um we're going to give him the floor we're going to allow him to present the entire higher budget with minimal questions and then we'll be prepared to go um Department by Department can't guarantee I won be so you're suggesting we should be looking at final numbers for the Departments you can look at it however you want to yeah we're just going to listen to the presentation of the entire budget we'll let them go right from Department to Department to Department rather than and and try to hold off interrupt him let him click make give us a whole big picture and then we're going to if our if our questions are Department specific we're going to when

we go back to discuss each department that's why we'll ask those specific questions what do you envision us voting on well so that was one of the questions I asked we and I believe the I thought the the that what I felt in the room was people wanted to vote by Department rather than vote on the entire budget my recommendation was to ask the select board how they plan on presenting it to the town meeting and vote on it based on that okay you'll have to clarify that I'll screw that up how we did it last year we last year we did it different than the year before that which was different than the year before that which is why I recommend maybe because ask maybe they would do it but it's good to ask do it right in the past we had transferred monies under each individual article yeah and this last year did not happen that way all the funding was one article that was a big change yeah it was it was that's a good

question anything else come before us tonight so 6:30 will work next Tuesday Tuesday correct and so our meetings are next Tuesday when was the next meeting after that the 10th was that Monday the 10th Monday the 6:30 10th and then the final meeting was was for the 24th correct at 6:30 and hopefully we can stick to that schedule Oh do we want to do we want to set a um a cut off time for our meetings shoot for 9:30 I think is what we've done in the past I think

that 9:30 sounds good so means s 6:30 conclude by 9:30 all right I need a motion to adjourn there's a second all in favor good night everybody knock your microphones please your turned off a while ago