TranscriptSelect Board Budget Workshop ~ January 30, 2017

right. We don't We're not anywhere yet. All right. Good. Are we all set, Alden? All right. Thank you. I'd like to call this meeting to order. We have four out of our four selectmen here right now. Um, we're here for a budget workshop. And I guess where do we want to start?

Well, we got I mean, we've got we've got the road commissioner here. We might as well say the commissioner, [laughter] chief. Let's just do that. Go ahead. So, do you want to uh see forgive this kind of go over the uh we might want to actually go over that.

I gathered the data for this it into the spreadsheet for me today. So looking at um what it cost our labor, taking all of our crew, dividing that by the average uh hourly rate and my salary and each each dump truck and the excavator. For the excavator we took uh what do we project that over 15 years 10

excavator is over 20 years. Okay. 15 to 20 something because that's what our depreciation is on this. Oh you went by that. Okay. Because that ain't how we finance that. 20 years is which assuming you keep the machine for that long. That would be your dollar amount per

Do we have fuel on any of these? Are we using them? Yep. It's on the You can see it on the one that looks like this, Mike. Oh, yeah. One the one that doesn't have the thing at the top is for the two dump trucks. Oh, I see. Yep.

that we used because Calvin keeps track of that. understood it correctly, the the road commissioner cost here is actually your basically your full salary and benefits for seven months. You didn't you didn't prorrate it at all for

it's just his salary. We just salary. Yeah. Because we didn't get to him to do all that with Okay. But sal I mean you didn't spend 100% of your time on this project for seven months, right? You were on other So if if we took out if we calculated that down and added in benefits, we'd probably come in somewhere

close to a wash. I just wanted to make sure where we were on that. And the labor does include the benefits and stuff. savings by doing the So work ourselves. And just for the to note on the crooker only that's calculating out at $100 a foot which is

approximately what um was paid for the brown project and actually it's exactly what was that project. So um that's where we came out with that number. Right. And my recollection when we were first looking at doing runaround is that Krooker sent us estimates for both doing it all and doing it. I never saw any of that.

I thought we had the gate was us doing was to try to get it in that dollar amount that we needed to be in. Yeah, I think that's how it ended up. I think there was some there was some thrown out possible numbers here there, but I think in the end that's all good as we have that to answer your questions. Now on to the budget.

There's that. Okay. So, it looks like about a $751,000 savings of on that if the hot top stays the same. That's the gamble. The hot tub stays the same. Why would we know what the hot top price is 2017 yet? But this is actually got a fair uh the 2017 estimated has a fair amount of buffer on that. Um about about a $40,000 buffer on it. Oh, it's cuz it's all petroleum based.

Going to get chewed right up in the grass. Now, how much was the savings again, please? 759680. Estimate on the front page and the bottom box. I don't have a bottom box. All right. Did I? Yes, I did. You did. One of us proposing it.

I found the bottom box. 759. Okay. Okay. Thank you. So, um, but if asphalt goes up, that savings wouldn't change because that's still that's really relevant to go up. That's anyway, right? Kirker would would charge that's going to get charged,

right? Regardless, because they're all done with an escalator. So, if the price of asphalt goes up, it's there's always some risk. All right. So this new one here, this new proposed budget is with the changes that we put in last time.

So little the overall budget sheet. I printed it up now. I will get those to you. [snorts] Right. I think I have it. Thanks. Oh, get an extra one cuz Josh isn't here. That's put the new equipment We're going to get begg. [laughter]

This is our overview. Oh, okay. All right. Oh, this is a new overview. All right, Calvin, can I trouble you for the whole punch, please? Just so I can keep all these pages straight. Watch your fingers. Let's get this strap.

Which one we going on? Okay. And I'll just try to All right. So, the only changes we have. So, how do you want to proceed? You want to go item by item or just Let's um let me match up what I got going here. All right. So, this is the this is the the changes that we made the other night.

Yeah. And it'll have the date of 1:30 on the top left right hand corner. Okay. All right. That's a help cuz I just want to see they should all have dates on the right hand corner. Final number is compared to what I did myself. You've got 1,431490 and I come up with 1,499 490. So, we was pretty damn close. And I'm not really sure But it looks like we took out some stuff that I was going to take out. We didn't take out the other night, but I could be wrong. There were like I think two or three things. We took out the $300 for the

I had a total of $11,300 that I took out, but that's not necessarily what we completely We took out like 75. Let's see. Well, I just went over this and I just said, "Well, maybe we can take out this much money." So, we took out $2,000 from line 4,000,

I think. Let me double check. Yeah. Yep. $2,000 from line 4,000. $2,000. Oh, wait a minute. That's the equipment maintenance. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. 2,000 from line 406. That's tree cutting. Yeah. 75,000 from paving 5 4510 road paving.

4510 near the bottom of the page one. Okay. That's all right. So, we took 75,000 out of there. 75,000. Yeah. Okay. meteorology line. Yeah, I had that too. So that's that's So you what do you have a total of I didn't have the

What number line was that? Uh 4535 4534 is what I have here. 4535 is meteorology. Meteorology. Okay. Technology is the other one. That's a thousand. So, and then we also removed from the public works line. We removed public works road bond to put out its own line. And that's that's 172,645.

Yeah. So, and that's how we how we got down to the 1414 1,431490. the 75 taken out. It was still 3,000 like 3,000 difference, I think. So [snorts] I would be at 1,ion424490. just Oh, you were I was just looking at it and saying, can we do this? Can we do that? And here's what I did on line uh what is that? Line 4,000 equipment maintenance. This is the summer equipment maintenance. Correct. Mhm.

And I went back over the last few years and see what we budgeted, what we expended, and I said, "Well, can we take another $4,000 out of there for the reason that we do have one new truck more than we had?" So, that was just a question. That's where I took I took out of there. And then if you go down on uh see

line Oh, no, not there. line uh uh 40 4533 winter equipment maintenance. I went back and looked at what we budgeted, what we spent and uh we had 20,000 budgeted for this year. Last year we budgeted 12, we went to 22. Okay, obviously for reasons.

And I said, can we take another 3,000 out of that? We don't have that old truck, but we still have old trucks that could need more work. I don't want to cut us short, but they're a year older. That's right. So, that was just a thought.

Your pickup's a year older, right? Your your pickup need work. Yeah. Well, I can't really compare that. His pickup was new. It's a year older, but those trucks were 10 or 15 years old. Every truck's a year older. You know, it's kind of like my pickup. I put 1,500 bucks worth of body work into it two years ago and I'm putting 1,500 in there now two years later because it gets to the point where you know it just it either starts to go fast, you keep dumping money in it or you unload it. So that's what I'm asking. I'm not saying we should do that. That was just my when I went down through this if that was a possibility. When we had our discussion today, Mark, about the the cost um stuff, one of the things that Calvin said to me, because I thought the same thing, you know, new truck, it would be less for maintenance [cough] and his comment was that a lot of the stuff for the maintenance for the new trucks is

more expensive than the old trucks because they're new trucks. We budget that throughout the year. That's why all the stuff for the computer and everything is all in the budget for that, right? But like like an oil change on the new truck he was saying costs like $700, but an oil change on the old truck costs like

20 or 50. That's what he was saying. Well, those things the smaller trucks. The smaller trucks. The older trucks. You want say you want me to dig into that? One ton pickups. Okay. So that's Yeah, that would be quite Yeah, that would be that'd be way too much of a spread.

I I Well, they're probably about the same. Yes, I misunderstood. All right, Les, I'm just asking. I mean, I went down through it. I was trying to be fair both sides and just asking if [snorts] the majority feels weird to leave it the way it is. I'm okay with that because the number that I have for the final is only 50 bucks off from what you guys started with before I took out the 75. So, I'm not opposed to it. But,

[snorts] this is very interesting. If we if we remove the uh paving line as far as the increase from the paving line, we basically wipe out all increase in the budget. The whole the whole increase in the overall budget is the paving line because the paving line is $143,500 more and the total public works budget is $143,46 more. So, so basically other than the paving line, we've kept we've kept the budget at at zero. Um, and we were specifically looking at that paving line targeting trying to do more.

that out. That's where I come to the 149 1499. So, Anybody with I I agree with Mark Mark suggestions? Absolutely. I was questioning that when he was giving it to us. Sarah, my only concern about cutting maintenance lines and and cutting everything just to the bone is that

I don't want to have broken down trucks in the middle of the winter and not have money set aside to fix them. I'd rather have the money there and if it doesn't get spent, it doesn't get spent. It goes back into other projects, capital projects for the taxpayers. It doesn't go away. And rather than risking

being caught in the middle of something with without the resources to to make the repairs, we're not taking a lot away from either. You're talking $2 or $3,000. I mean, that ain't a lot of money when it comes to when you got $56,000 to start with.

Yeah. I'm just That would be my one. That's That's my one. I I think I could almost go along with your summer maintenance. um bringing it down to around I'd say maybe we spent 32,000 last year um if we brought it down to somewhere around 32 or 33. I could I could be comfortable with that. Um bringing down the winter maintenance. No, we spent 22,000 last year. We budgeted 20,000 and trying to cut another 3,000. I I say no on that, but

that's because we had that old truck still in service last year. We were still trying to get by. We got rid of the old truck and got a new one this year. So, you got rid of one of the old trucks that you spend a lot of money on and we got a newer one.

Summer maintenance. I would be okay taking the 3,000 out of the summer maintenance. 3511. So, you're saying three out of summer maintenance? You said four out of that one. 4,000. Sorry. It's you know, I was just getting close to 32.

Yeah. But I don't know. I don't know what the difference is. I mean, I think you I don't think you're swapping apples for apples, right? And that is part of what my concern was was making sure that the older trucks I know they're a year older, you know, sometimes things go a lot faster, but I don't want to skin it too tight, but I I'm just trying to come with a

I think we got a good hand on our maintenance now. Hopefully, we won't be spending as much money as we were previously. So, what do you want to cut that? What were we doing at 4,000? Well, I I don't know if we've settled for what I did to try to keep it towards the 32. Okay.

I was on the summer maintenance is what I was on. I would I would be okay going 4,000 with that if we left the other one where it is. I can I could live with that. So, it would be 4,000 out of line. 4,000 is what I'm talking right now.

32. And um I would I would I would be okay with that. Um if if if the need arised and we need arose, we could probably absorb some from somewhere else because I've added JD link which is 1,500. So we spent 32,71. I've added the JD link which is another 15. So that'll bring up to 33571.

So that's what's what's the 1500 you just said? JD Link. Link software. That's stuff that tells me what's going on with the equipment from remotely. So I on my computer if anything's happened to that machine and an alert comes up tells me if it's

Yeah, the truck's got it. Yeah, the truck's got it and the equipment's got all the equipment has. So I have got all that stuff added, updated maintenance should be good this year. I run that. So that would be 335 total if you added that back in is what you said.

The 32071 that we spent last year added the 15 for the JD length. That puts us at 335 uh 3 33571. Wait, did you have that JD link at one? Didn't you have that? Didn't have it before. Didn't have it. I mean, but you didn't have that.

Is that Is that all right with 335 then? Yeah. And presumably or at least I'd like to think that for 1500 the JD link is going to maybe help us catch some of these maintenance things before they become an expensive. So we don't have a $32,000

so that we don't have to spend 32 grand on maintenance. Let's hope so. So So you want to go 335? Yeah, I could live with that. So that would be minus 2500. Yeah. On line 4,000. [snorts] I'm I'm good with that. Yeah. You [laughter]

I know more about this than all of them. I'm telling you. Let's go with it. Next year we'll we'll argue this more. Okay. Just asking and trying to be fair both ways. That's all. And I don't want See, I was thinking that the JD link justified going to the 32 because now we would know about things when they were coming due and we would be on top of the

You would think, wouldn't you? the Well, yeah, but he's saying that the third the G that links was added onto the new truck, which wasn't No, it's a it's a program for him. So, he can just It's like a G, right? You just punch in and say,

comes the heat's not working. The oil's low or it comes up and tells me what's going on. And I'm all right with that. Yep. and absorb it. I'm more than happy to next year when we look at this since if we if we see that we've dropped on maintenance costs, I'm more than happy to look at this again, too. I just I just I I am concerned about

So, you're saying leave the leave the winter one where it is then? I would, but there are there are four there are four of us. So, if if I was heming and hard about that, I would just, you know, if if we could if if there was a spot, could we do that? I don't know. I mean, I'm nervous about doing that with old trucks myself. So, I said I was trying to be fair both sides, but I could live with that. Dropping this other one down what we did. It's not what I was looking at, but I could live with that.

How much were you contemplating taking out of it? The uh two grand window ones. Mhm. The window ones. Three. Putting it to 17 instead of 20. about that the other night and I still was. But that's why I don't like to make all my decisions the night I get it presented to me so I can have a chance to look it over and think about it. [snorts] But I could you know that one I'm that one I was I've still been up in the air with just because it's old.

Mhm. So and I've looked over those old trucks and I'm no expert on trucks like that. But [snorts] I can see things that make sense to me that ain't good. So yeah, I I've cut 3,000 off from I cut 3,000 or 2300 off from last year. So

The rest of it I'm okay with. Any other any other s uh questions or suggestions on the act on the budget? Okay. Capital works. Do you want a motion on it? Um, Well, we need the numbers. Do we need a motion on it or do we not do that till after the budget committee's been through it?

Well, we we kind of we don't usually do motions until we're getting ready for the articles, but we can if you wanted to. No, that's fine. I thought we did at this stage. I can't remember. I can't remember either. So, so that would bring it down to um 14.

If you look on the board, I have a followup there. Oh, thank you. So, 142890, it brings it down to. budget. And um question on the funding for the public works bond. How are we? So, so what I had done is I had done what you had suggested. I had split it in half. Um, so half of the public works

uh bond and the 37350 and washbay bay are all covered by the public works capital public works capital fund which has $359,000 in it and 49 349. Yeah. And we [snorts] are actually um looking to put another hundred in in anticipation of a truck next year.

Right. um is at my suggestion. Now, we did not we did not actually discuss discuss or vote or come to a consensus on that. That was that was my suggestion. So, we probably should um make sure we're at a consensus on all of these lines. Um and so the first one, public works, uh paving the public works facility. Um

are we in agreement that we should put this on? Oh, okay. Video. Yeah. The 14241 is is unspent is is what got returned from last year's budget. No, no. The 14241 was the monies that we got from FEMA for the blizzard. Okay.

That we put into the capital works public reserve. Okay. Capital public works, you know, capital. Last year we we actually returned 188,000 if I'm reading this correct. Right. Approximately. 198,000. You mean this past year? 2016.

Yeah, I see. 1881 134 was the difference in the budget. So that's what it was. I thought it was went right 188 136 is what? So public works capital fund um yeah we returned 198,000. Where' the extra 10,000 come from? The extra 10,000 came from the money that we received from the old plow when we traded it in. So the the plow wasn't 204,000.

That was a hell of a deal, too. Thank you. uh, if we go down the paving public works facility, are any objections to that being in there? Yes. I think that's uh it's not a necessity. That's just it's a necessity to the to the to it. And I was thinking more about that about the outlets on the wall. I mean, you can get outside outlet covers for your house. So, make sure that it's waterproof with GFI in it to to solve it. And the drains in the middle of that building, not on the edges. So, that's where you park the truck over is the middle of the bay. It's not near the walls. Like I said, I think that's more of a luxury than it is a necessity to have for $10,000 of taxpayers money to put curtains up so we don't spray each other.

Well, I went down look looked the whole looked the area over myself too just to see if it was, you know, if there was something that I would be willing to support or not. And I think it's more than just receptacles there cuz you've got a

emergency lights, emergency lights. You've got a couple of meter panels there. You got the the backup generator panels there. I mean, there's a lot of stuff. And uh obviously the battery stuff's there. We could move that again. I know it got proposed to be put out there by the safety outfit people and stuff. Um,

once again, the drains in the middle of the building on the edges. I agree. So, you suggested just do so you could just wash one truck. I mean, this is set up. Yeah, you can you can wash two trucks right in the middle of that that place if you had to, but you can put one truck safely in the middle of it and walk around it. No problem with that. Or that's only when it's sub-zero blowout. and it's not. You want to do it outside anyways cuz you don't want all that stuff filtering into your

your [snorts] oil separator, all the dirt and all your sand. So, you'd be wanting to do your trucks outside much as you can possibly in. This is only if it's below sub-zero below weather. So, we're going to for me to comfortably spend taxpayers money, $10,000 because when it's real cold for the guys in Washington side to build it to me is is is is kind of extravagance. Well, it's

Well, it's not just about there is no I can't think of another public workplace that'll actually wash the trucks inside all the time, no matter what. I just they always wash. I don't think they were talking about doing it all the time.

Even Lisbon washes outside all they most of they can. I mean, once a while they'll spray down inside, but only when they really have to. Yeah. If it gets down below 12°, you can't. It just keeps building ice spray. Right. And I understand that. I understand that. And that's why

somewhere in there, you might have to pick warmer days is all I'm saying. if you don't get your curtain. I know, but the problem is sometimes you get into these stretches where you just don't get them and I hate leaving that salt on the truck. And so I'm getting after the guys and they're like, "We only do it. Can't do it."

And just wash one truck at a time in the middle of the day. Did you um did you get a chance to get a firm price on? I I know we talked the other day and you had a price on there was a curtain going across the building and then down the sides to protect all the electrical stuff and

I had one having come across the middle and down the middle but then realized that yeah we got to have one down both sides. Um oh that was across that was across the end of it and one down the middle that wasn't one down each side.

You have to double that. That came in at five grand. You have to double that. But you don't really I mean even if you needed them to protect, you know, against the walls to protect the electric, you could still wash two trucks side by side without a curtain between the two of them. I mean, that wouldn't from from truck shielding one truck from another is is less of a necessity, I would anticipate, than shielding the electrical panels.

If you took the 5 grand and added another curtain, so you'd add 30% add 33% to that. Give us a both sides in the middle. Why can't you just put outlet covers on your outlets if you're worried about that? If I mean, if you put a curtain across the back, they'll cover all your work area and all your welding materials.

Box is still there and water's going to be getting in behind. It's just like a house, right? [snorts] Yeah. But you don't spray a hose in your house. [laughter] I would anticipate. If you got rain and all day long rain beating against your house, running down your siding. I mean, it's the same thing.

Weatheright, right? Why can't we get them? I think it's different. Well, I think it's going to cost us more to have an electrician come in and convert those all to exterior weatherproof outlets than it would be to put a curtain.

I mean, one day I went up and watched it. You really think these curtains are going to last? Well, ones we had up where I came from last for years. Um, we washed truck one day and I looked and there was the welder that was plugged in. and it was laying on the floor over there and I'm like,

I [snorts] don't think so. I just uh I see a tire changer here. You know what I mean? No, we already got that. I know what we went through with that. I have just been right after the uh right after the crew about making sure those trucks get washed

every excuses. I don't want excuses. I want to get done this week and then I got Can you get a uh six vehicles I got to wash where I want? get a firmer price on one across and down the side. Y and then we'll see where this lands. Can we have that like

before the end of the week? This is a budget number. So, no, I get that. But also at our last meeting I want I think one of of you guys raised the question of to make sure that before we spend the money on these curtains that either the insurer or OSHA or somebody's not going to come in and say that's not sufficient to be protection for the electrical. Well, I you know, it's one of those things where

you don't necessarily want to rock the boat. Yeah, you ask. Yeah, I just remembered that question came up and I didn't know if it was ever resolved. I asked about that and that is one of them things where Yeah, Dave, you might rock the boat.

But I don't I in the same at the same sense I don't want to not rock the boat, find out that we've just done something and now we got to spend three times to make it right. Yeah. I mean, as long as as long as there's no way the water can get to the electrical any electrical, I can't imagine there would be an issue. I would imagine it had to be an issue if they walked in the washing trucks and made all those open electrical service.

I mean, we we had That's why I stopped in to look it over. Those GFI outlets we had tested and a lot of them didn't trip. They failed. I've had them fail at my house, too. If they don't trip, you're going to get electrocuted.

Can we get a firmer price by the end of the week? I don't know how I don't know how the fire department lives without washing having curtains over there. I really don't. I don't know how you wash your truck. You wash them inside.

We don't have water. Oh, they don't have they don't have the salt. But they can they can wait till those warm because they don't have all that salt on the truck. They got to get off. Well, I look at it a couple different ways. I look at

I wish we would have put in if the wash paid. I look at it like, okay, are we spending the taxpayers money foolishly or not? Well, you can say we are until something happens and it cost you more than that to to get out of the M. That's that's the balance that I'm weighing.

I just don't want somebody spraying water in there with somebody welding over there and stuff plugged in and cords plugged into the battery charges. You got you still got your part times coming washing trucks, right? Yeah.

So, your full-times are not there, correctly. Right. Yeah, they're all So, you won't have full-time workers working in there when the trucks are being washed, right? They're all there. They're all working. My bigger concern is just getting the salt off so that we're not paying for it in trucks and truck maintenance [laughter] and

I think it pays for itself long term. I think I think it will too. I think we should table that to the end of the week and get a firmer price on them curtains. And is there any other money that's left over in that whole that whole bunch of stuff or tools or whatever that

it's about 2,400 2400 that could go towards that in the event that we decide to do that? Yep. Okay. Can you get us a firm price the end of the week? One on each side and one across. We'll decide then. All right. Thanks. Next line is a public works road bond 172645.

That's a given. Yep. And the last one is uh public works reserve putting aside 100,000 uh to keep with the same 100,000 we put aside last year so that we can continue to replace these trucks on a two-year. That's basically coming out of the monies we've that's not raising. No, this one is raised. This one would be raising to put into the fund. Okay. So, next year we take the 100,000 we raised this year and 100,000 next year and we can buy a truck.

So, we pay cash for the truck and we're not bonding the truck because we we know I mean we're that's a 12 year span. Um every 12 years. So, we'll be going through the rotation on those and um just just so we know that that's what's going to cost us. We know that those trucks don't last forever.

Are those are those trucks undecoded? Yep. bay carton. Uh that's my suggestion. I'm only one. I'm I'm fine. I It would be nice to have some firmer numbers on that. But I mean just because we will be asked did you get estimates? Did you

I did get an estimate and that's what I got was five grand. And we and we and we anticipate you swinging hard too just like everybody else. Don't don't give me that's what you department heads are supposed to do. Swing hard

and we're the ones supposed to and question it. You bobbleheads. Um, so yeah, you got one for a cross down the middle, but if we do each side and down like a cross, well, we're kind of guessing that's if we got a number that's I just that'll solve the problem.

It's cheaper with And does that? Well, yeah, that number include the hardware to install it. That's installed. That's turn key. You walk away. I just want to make sure that not all of a sudden we don't have to bring somebody else in to install it.

And what is the warranty on that as well? I have to find that got that part to even get a number. So the bottom line is the way the budget is is actually cut again the second year except for the increase in behavior which I have no control over that and that's I mean that's dictated by the condition of the roads and miles roads we have to do and get only get worse I hear it every day some I hear from my side of town some I hear from the other side of town so

you do okay I heard just so ago uh one other thing to address um on this is his items in green. Are we in favor of trying to delay um delay another bond for the roads for one more year because it it does appear that it cost us significantly less.

Yes. Okay. So, [snorts] but you you see what I I did put across there. $100 a foot, $75 foot, and $65 a foot. Princess Davis. Yeah. Yeah. And we I'm thinking well maybe you know Alaku if we've got some time left to do bitching on on that we could then

attack one of them maybe. Imagine that. Huh? Would that be something? Attack one of these. Get ahead. Yeah. So wow. Or or we can just go start ditching. That'd be awesome. Kelvin if you could do that. I mean the one thing is um

I don't think we want to put a rinky dink little bond [clears throat] out there. And I don't think we can pay for this without a bond. Right. So, I don't even want to win me mince the word bond, tell you the truth. I mean,

I don't want it this year. I think we need to wait a year and then look at it uh next year. Maybe even look at two years worth of work into one and so we're not continuously every year coming for and we've we've beefed up the paving line enough that I think that people that we can still do some significant projects and make some progress. And I also think the idea going back to to what you've said and and what your predecessor said is we do have to spend some time and money on the roads that aren't total rebuilds and and so to spend this next building pro building season on preventative maintenance on some of the roads that that we can do shims and overlay and not not bond is a useful project as well. I

mean, I I I think we need to when we go to town, when we go to the budget committee, we need to explain what our what our plan is because uh we know that there are roads out there that need to be rebuilt. We know that there will be town uh towns people saying, "Well, why aren't you doing anything with this road?"

Well, I got a feeling you're going to get some you're going to get people very unhappy people with live on Davis Road and we already got them Hill. We already got them road. I I've got people screaming at me. I I understand that. But if we can show that we're saving 35 40% by s by waiting a year to

to when you have when your crew will have time um and find and if you could find a way to actually go out and I I I I don't know if like you did one time and and dump pot top down with the grater and go over some of that stuff and smooth it out some it might calm down even though it's just a temporary fix. It might tone down a lot of that metal road and

if you could do think of that maybe this year and with your budget I mean it's not the ultimate and it does give it a little bit of a rumble but it seems better than what it is a lot you know we got the pl stuck in the road

I [clears throat] mean I I the other day on the boy hill and I said well you know I guess I got thinking as I went down the Davis road well this is what Sean did here and weren't perfect but it's helped some pacify people for a while

I know you did that on rabbit road to help out some So if we can do that to think about it maybe on some of these bad roads like Meadow and Davis and okay and Bowie and the only other option is the people that ask me and I explain it to them as I said is show up town meeting and you make your proposal and if the town says we'll spend that $2 billion that's what we'll spend.

That's right. You know that's what it comes down to. Raise your hand. You want your taxes to be 10,000 a piece 10,000 a piece. Two billion. I think I'm moving. [laughter] That was exaggerating but yes. All right. Any more on that one?

All right. I'm happy with that one at this point. Shall we go to fire rescue? Yep. Thank you, Kelvin. And thank you for putting the the numbers together from the I'll be checking them out. Thank you. Check. Okay. I'll be sitting down with my analysis guy.

[laughter] Yeah. No, we don't want to for now. We'll skip over the uh personnel and support and benefits because we'll kind of address all those I think all at once. Okay. Yeah. Um, operating expenses. this? Um, I know it's been uh probably 3 weeks since we first saw this, but

uh we write it down here. I mean, it's the same conversation that we just had with really with about roads is the biggest increase is equipment maintenance and and that's just a reality of equipment gets old and we don't same situation. We don't want to be caught with a firetruck that's having problems and and we aren't doing the maintenance that we need to do because we don't have money in the budget.

I'd also I added a line underneath the totals which is percent of budget unspent that's left unspent. Um, and so I just wanted to point out that in 2014 0% it's point something percent actually. Um, 2015 2% and in 2016 um 1%

of his budget was left unspent. Where did you Oh, it's on the Oh, it's on the screen. I have that. That's left unspent. You said that's the percentage of his budget that was left unspent. You almost got it. Okay. So he's he's pretty close.

Pretty close. suggestions for changes on the operating budget. Um just for just one question because I I can't pick up exactly where we had it. If there was something to do with $3,000, you talked about uh testing or something.

Yeah. PS on this one. Post testing. It was under h and equipment. Okay. And if you go to my breakdown, um the whole line increased and it was not really 3,000. I think the I don't have 2950 2950 now. You said that was an annual test, Bill?

Yeah, it's an annual host test. The company would come in and do all the testing. And you're doing that previously. You're doing it now. Right now, so we're going to spend $3,000 for one one test once a year. But you could be do it.

You just told me it was annually. Each piece of test hose has to be tested, right? So, it actually is six evenings is what it takes. Takes you guys six right now. Yeah. So, it uh Yes. And it probably, as I said the other night, to me it's one of the most dangerous things that non-emergency items that we do because we're actually

when they are charged when you're scene, they're under the same pressures when you're testing them. No, on scene versus testing. testing, you have to test them at half of the original manufacturer pressure if they originally tested it. Um 600 is supposed to be 300. So it's supposed to be 50% what the original factory test pressure was. With structural hose is going to be 600 or 800. Um 50 most departments cheat a

little on that pressure. Most of them do not wind their engines up to 300. It's screaming the shock pretty good there. Cuz on scene you tend to operate on scene pressure doesn't put fires out. Water puts fires out. So you tend to operate at maybe you know 100 and a half to 200 is high pressure. So you have to test them at a higher pressure than what you're actually going to operate on scene is what the goal is. And they have to be tested with part of our inspection actually both for ISO requirements and

part for the when they come in and do the insurance inspections or the shape inspections. That's one of the records they test. Absolutely. I agree with that. Make [snorts] sure the hose testing is done and the pump testing or ladder testing and stuff like that. But the only one we don't currently use outside resources to do the testing on. So, would that be an issue of somebody else coming in for a day and testing all the hoses or would that be sending trucks out or

No, they come in for a day. Uh, I haven't done a ton of research. Like, I can't honestly tell you that they actually use water to do the testing, but I don't know if they do or they don't. They come in and odds odds are definitely a volume. So, they'd be in a day. We used to watch Freeport charge theirs and test theirs up on Lambert Road.

Yes. Actually, most most departments are gradually switching host testing to an outside company just because not because of the one trying to get people there to do it because when we do it obviously with water, we got to test it. We're going to stretch it out, test it, you know, I said about six nights. Well, one night's actually in the fall. go over and use a hydrant to do the 4 in because takes too much water to fill the 4 in and really to effectively test it. So we go over the full falls that's usually a long night. You're talking probably six nights anywhere from 6 12 people

good practice. Quick night is probably 3 hours. So the usually four four and a half. The real issue is getting the personnel there to do it. part of the issue. Part of the issue, but it, you know, it's it's repetitious. If there was some way we could be creative with it and make it into a training and so they were getting something out of it, but the the constant repetition, I mean, I can write it off as pump testing and occasion training and occasionally I do people, well, no, I just don't go learn the ropes on pumping, but you know how to run the truck. You

build the pressure to 250 and that's it. It just sits there and hums for five minutes and then you back off and hook up the next stuff. So yeah, so getting personnel is difficult. One, it's very unsafe because if you're testing it to see if the line's going to blow, you want it to blow in a controlled environment. Well, it uh we're constantly trying to make sure people stay once we put the test on. One of the big things is no, you don't walk through it for

you run your wander out or cut across the hose or something. Stand behind the truck, watch let the lines out. Yeah. But uh yeah, [clears throat] to me it probably the requirements are that they have to wear their hot hat, the gloves, the the turnout pants and boots and stuff like that, but you know, you get somebody showing up late, they walk across all the charge hoses, you're chasing after them, screaming them. So they just the whole thing is an accident waiting to happen in my opinion and it's not an emergency setting. So that's why I put it in there. So when they when they do it in a control setting, how do they do it? same way.

Be perfectly honest with you, I'm not 100% sure. I've never watched it. The only thing I can tell you for sure is they're going to lay them up. They come in, they test it all, they mark it all, they revet it all. The only things I can really tell you for sure.

And is this a direct is this a kind of a budget number estimate or is this an actual actual quote? I have an actual quote that I believe is 2,950. If you have that written down, I must have got that off of my notes or something or had my quote with me that night.

Okay. I was just I I know we talked about a little bit. I just was trying to understand it a little bit more. So, shall we move on to this? No. I guess I'm all set. So if we go to shows that too? fire, darn fire rescue and EMA budget

requests, um we can go work down through the uh um different uh capital improvements uh or capital uh things. So, first one is uh to see what sum of money the town will authorize for the capital improvement account and uh the request is for 50,000 up 5,000 from 2016. Um anything you want to say? I mean I

know what I know basically but anything else? Not really. I I would hope it go that way, especially if some of the thought process is inevitably we should only pay for one at a time. That's inevitably the goal of the host. We need to average it out and figure out, you know, if we're on a 20 year replacement schedule, that means once every 3 years. When we start talking engines right now, we might as well for rough guess call 500,000. So we need to be able to if we're going to do it so every we can pay one off 3 years worth of savings or three years at a time. We theoretically need to be making sure I I can do an average. It's about $2.1 million. So we need to be getting somewhere around 200 to $300,000 in there per year to do the apparatus replacement. So I I would hope we maintain that 50,000 actually and maybe consider increasing it if we go on that replacement schedule doing it that way. Um

fair number. If we were to replace them all, not replacing the ladder with a new ladder, we're probably about the engines are about five each and then 36 and a nine for a ladder. Actually, we're probably about 2.4 million for apparatus if we had to replace them over brand new tomorrow

over 20 years and if we some of them are going to be more than 20 like a rescue you should do it in 12 years or something like that so I'd say an average is somewhere 20 22 somewhere in there um and so 2 [clears throat] we need to maybe be two to 250 somewhere in there for a year right

150 150 150 times that would be that would be 3 million in over 20 years, 150. Yeah. Um, yeah. So, if that, you know, if that's the direction that the board and the community inevitably want to head head, then to me, if anything, we need to figure that number's eventually going to have to increase more if we're going to go on that that replacement plan. And that actually is what my capital plan had been doing. and had been increasing it in like $5,000 increments so that it was not a harsh sudden blow.

Uh, another question on that. I mean, I know this year the uh rescue um intake was considerably higher than a year. So, this is a second year with a considerable increase. I it was 70,000 72,000 or something like that that we took in for for that

two. Do you see that uh staying there or you see that coming down? I think this year I think it'll be down some I think it'll be up from previous years based on what I'm seeing at this point in time and based on the tailwind of last year. I don't think we'll maintain 72. You already know me. I don't estimate high. I tend to estimate them conservatively. So I think my conservative estimate I got to look at it closer. It's going to be somewhere around 60 maybe 62 at the top. So are you seeing less call call volume this year then or

Yeah, actually our call volume right now it not on the same pace as last year uh and uh we had two or three people with medical situations that would contributed to generating some of that revenue. So some of that's changed. So

I guess I can't be more specific than that withouting the law. Sorry. Uh, [clears throat] so no, I I think I think my conservative when I actually crunch those numbers, my conservative estimate would be somewhere around 60 62,000. So I knowing me, I'd

say that would probably be the tops would be maybe $65,000 revenue. Yeah. So I mean if we if we go with the 50,000 and um with this year's the 72 that's um 122 but with what your estimate you're be around 110 115,000 that we'd be putting towards towards the uh capital.

That's only if we're only [snorts] going to address out of capital fund just apparatus replacement. Nothing for capital projects at the station or anything. Right. And it sounds like try to leave it at the 50. I actually I would recommend increasing it this year, but if that is the direction that the the selectment of the town people want me to redo the capital plan based on, well, I'm [clears throat] fine with redoing it. It's just we should also assume that we're going to have to change how we contribute to get it up there to that point. It's not so much it's going to cost us more in the future so to speak, but we've been kind of using it as a overlapping payment schedule and if we're going to move away from that, we're going to have to do larger lump sums. Does that make sense what I said

initially? Yeah. Initially, eventually it'll line up. Yeah. Well, the state you were talking about capital projects at the station after this year and the paving and and some of the painting and the getting that floor done. The station should be in in pretty good shape moving forward. I would

It depends on what we choose to do with the modular in the future. The modular could use some attention. There's some smaller odds and ends, but I really wanted to step back and kind of assess the smaller end all odds and ends. So, I wasn't just grasping it, throwing recommendations out there and things like that. We haven't dug well. So I think inevitably we should perhaps address the well situation and maybe put in a drilled well over there. Septic system is probably it's been there since before the original station

say before the old station was put up in the 80s. The the septic system went in the same time. So the septic systems been there in since ' 82. So we probably ready for one blessing is we have good sandy soil. So hopefully it held up halfway decent. So maybe it doesn't. things like that that I need to get some people in to make some assessment before I could really give you a good picture. But I think those were all things that could wait until we get

right. There's nothing really emerging at this point. The what? No, there's nothing that's really like pressing pressing. [clears throat] Not that I know. I'm not going to tell you next week. I might change my tool, but not that I know.

You don't have buckets around, you know, with roof leaks and all of that. Okay. So, um, what's the desire of the board on the sum towards the capital improvement account? Um, he's requesting the 50,000 up from 45,000. Sounds good to me. Everybody rather do little ones than the big

that sounds 500,000 at once. Okay. Next one, the quint payment. That's that's basically what it is. That's there. It is what it is. And then uh then the next one is uh okay that's all out because that was for the station. So the next one down there is um the author seeking an authorization to purchase a new engine package for a price not to exceed 486,000. [clears throat]

request of um money because the it would not come no payments would come due until 2018. But we would have to consider that um on a six-year payment. That's probably what 90 thou close to 90,000 a year. [clears throat] Well, it yeah we actually discussed it the other night at the senior office meeting. I'd say yeah, probably the payments on the 486 if we 486 would probably come up. If we did it over 6 years would probably be 90 maybe 95. I originally put it in the capital plan and 80,000 but that was when I had a projected purchase price of like 450 460 somewhere in there and I don't know what our interest rates are at now for a while they used to correct me if I'm wrong but they used to be down around 2 to 3% somewhere in that vicinity. I don't know if they're still in that range or not. Well, the bond was was about 2% and the bonds [clears throat] that we did for um public works were at like 3

95 or something like that. So, four or less is what's what's the six year? Why is the six year out? Is it can it be more? No, I I actually when we embarked upon the cap the apparatus replacement um I had the plan I think it was like 2004 or something like that in 2003 we

started putting together the capital plan we put it together some of the apparatus were 40 years old that mean we had one or two that were approaching the 40 year mark so we had to be fairly aggressive but by the same token we didn't want to to, hey, let's go out and spend $200,000. So, we came up with a plan that was um really spread this stuff out to kind of and it was a concept of catching up first. The first round was really kind of a catch-up round and then kind of maintaining and so it was really a continuation of that plan and maintaining and trying to avoid spikes to the community. like it's kind of, you know, it we're doing then if we do like a three-year replacement cycle um every three years we'll pay them divide them out for three years. Well, if when I have a a forestry truck come up that's maybe 200,000. So that's like an $80,000 payout. When I have an engine come up, that's $500,000. So, you know,

the the purpose of the capital plan was to kind of keep it on an even plane. The purpose of the six years was really, yeah, we knew there was going to be overlap, but it was to keep it so that you could sh shuffle your payments instead of committing to u 140 or $150,000 [snorts] payment. Your commitment was a 50 or $80,000 payment on one and okay, you're halfway done paying that. Well, yeah, okay, we can continue to do it. So, we'll put the other half on and we'll apply it to this apparatus. So, I don't know if I'm making sense what I'm saying. Instead of having one piece here, we had kind of lay it like you'd lay your box when you

instead of going out 10 years or 12 years, you was doing six and get halfway through. Then if you had to go with another one, we've got three years overlap. [clears throat] I don't Yeah, you I don't think you'd want to go out. I think you want to pull them in,

right? But that's why I'm just asking what the reason behind that was. That's what he just We needed to do aggressive replacement without and build a system simultaneously. So, it's kind of a carryover. If the thought process is let's let's have just one happening at any given time. Well, you have a a higher risk per se because your commitment when you do it is say 150,000 instead of 70,000 and then three years later, okay, but you have two constantly overlapping. So, you have an opportunity to carry on at 70,000 instead of 140,000. I don't know if that makes sense what I'm saying. If you have to delay a year, you're delaying 70,000. Whereas once you commit to 140,000, you have no auction or delay. And I'm not saying either one's a bad thought process. I really like the other thought process. In all honesty, I really wish we had a plan where we never borrowed money and we paid up front.

I agree. We need some real rich friend in town that was willing to help us with that. Well, I mean, we we ba in a lot of ways, we're basically trying to slowly work there, but it take it it takes a long time and then you hit bumps and you Yeah. Well, you know, and if you look at my picture I painted, if you figure you have a fleet of 2.4 million and you you have an the replacement cycle is 22 years or whatever, um, an average is 22 years, that means you've got to be doing 2.4 million every 22 years. And then if you put any quirks in there like a station payment or capital upgrade to the station. So the real reality is you've got to take the gibbons which are the apparatus and then throw in your other unknown variables like it's the other you're going to average out to 10,000 say for the station and upkeep and maintenance capital projects. So but we could calculate it. It's just yeah

it's going to be beefed up and we were trying to get there. It's been a slow full process getting to where we are. [clears throat] This 486 is if if this was approved at town meeting, that's the top dollar. It's not going to come in.

Yeah. Yeah. We actually we didn't commit to a vendor. We had four vendors resubmit and they range I'll be honest with you. They range in price from like high 460s to 519 or something like that. um we end up making it work with a lower price vendor, this would come under or if [snorts] we end up with a higher price vendor, which is actually the one I prefer, but they got to do some serious work to make it fit

in the difference between the high and the low vendor other than I know the thousands of dollars, but is there is there a huge quality difference or Well, that's what we need to examine. If this is approved to me, that's what us and the committee we need to make the decision is is the difference in price and they they'd all hit have to get down to this price range,

right? I get that. Yeah. So, yeah, it actually Yeah, it's it's one of to me it's one of the better man brands out there. They're all basically the same. I mean, I mean, look at your auto manufacturers and stuff like that. One year, this one's on the top and then

Agreed. Yeah. Okay. Unless you're a dieh hard X guy all the time, no matter what, you have hups. Most of them play leap frog. If the manufacturer comes out with a new stuff, everybody else picks it up and this one's on top for a while, then the next one. So,

and we've established that there's really no resale or tradein value on the existing very little. There is very little for a used fire truck. I mean, if if we're real lucky, it uh I I think I had it calculated in the the capital plan that we might get a $10,000 return on selling the engine or something.

Well, unless you live 500 miles north and you got four people that live in your town, they [clears throat] probably ain't interested in it. Um, hey, $10,000 is better than nothing. Just a question on the apparatus that would be replacing. Have you noticed any

um significant decline in the apparatus over the last year? Um significant more rusting or No, the rusting is growing because actually that's my major concern. mechanically the apparatus is, but we've already had it some serious body stuff done to it. And I'm pretty sure based on what's starting to show up that it's only a matter of time mechanically.

It passed all its tests. Yep. Yeah. And the other engine didn't. It' make life easy on me if I could stand up and tell you it failed all its test. No. Are the other ones passing it? The others passed it. Yeah. He had a He had pump repair on the other ones.

Yeah. Yeah. So they didn't pass. say must have been had some work done to them. No, they passed. It's just it was valves. They passed. When they when it's valves you have to have replaced, they still pass the test. You don't necessarily have to have the valves repaired. However, you'll always have leakage going by and stuff. So,

but you repaired the other engine, not that one. Yeah. Yeah. That one that one's doing pretty good. It's just the rust and the Yeah, the other engine. This one here actually on the bump test it had been declining and it's pretty much stabilized this year. It's right about um just a hair under the mat what the manufacturer specs call for in the first.

So it's not mechanical based. It's actually body based. What's what's the lead time? What's the lead time on on this? About a year. About a year. If we audit it, if tonight you gave me permission to audit it, we would probably be seeing it. Actually, they it varies. Some of them say nine months and some of them say it's about 15 months now. So, it really

Well, if the town approves it, it's not even be delivered until 2018 in the workplace. That's why the first payment would never be in due until 2018. Correct. And we still then we'd have two payments. We'd have the Quint and that one.

Yeah. We'd have the Quinn, we'd have this one. The Quint's the last payment 2020. So let's see if we didn't take 17 is four or six. So five of six 19 would be the last payment on the Quint. Yeah. If we didn't get it till 2018, wouldn't our first loan payment be 2019?

19. First payment it would be June 19th. And if we would we wouldn't be paying a uh like a you really want to go prepayment and save cost, what you actually would do would be because usually these payments are annual payments. Um, if you really want to get into it, and I wasn't going to go into that depth, but if you really want to save cost, what you do is you do a prepayment. You finance the prepayment and then you have a um performance bond on the apparatus. So there's no risk. You finance the prepayment. You pay the prepayment. You actually reduce your cost by $10 to $20,000 with an annual repayment. Say you did the prepayment loan.

Say it was approved. Let's let's use that theoretically. It's approved. You sign the contract in July. You do the prepayment loan in July. You make your prepayment on the truck. Reduces your cost by 10 to $20,000. You're not due to pay that until July of the following year. July of the following year, you refinance the prepayment loan with your local bank.

How much how much would you if you you save the 10 to 20,000, but how much do you pay in the interest over that prepayment loan? You're not due to stop paying until you actually and it's interest free until delivery of the plus nothing. So you you you take out your you take out your loan upon deliver your regular loan.

You've used their money to realistically reduce the overall purchase price and and like you said the last I think the last meet you said regardless whether you get this engine or not you're going to be coming after us for another

for the ambulance within a year or two rescue as far as we actually should start discussing the rescue. So what's more important the rescue or the fire engine right now? If you had Well, I know what you had. If you had one that broke down more than the other, which one breaks down? Which one's than the other one? I mean, you had

I'll be honest with you. If we if we don't do it, I'm probably going to come back and tell you we should replace both of them, right? I'm not going to pry out that. So, I'm going to make you Oh, the I know we did the head gasket and everything on the on the rescue and all that.

Rescue is starting to show signs of age. It doesn't have exceptional mileage. The body is aluminum, so rust probably won't be other otherwise than electrolysis between the frame and the aluminum. I don't know how well insulated it is.

That one had head gasket and the front end done, right? If I remember right. Yeah, it's had a bunch of mechanical work, especially on the AC system's been terrible on it and uh yeah, that apparat to show signs that No, you need to

mechanical wise. Yeah, that one's starting to show signs that mechanically again. So mechanically wise, we got the we got the ambulance is breaking down and we got a fire truck. Mechanical wise, it's not. It's showing a little bit of rust.

Yep. So that's why we should do the fire truck now. Get it done out of the way. Oh, I see. Then come after us for more money in two years for the right. Then we have three bonds. Be gone. The quint will be gone. If we're going to lose that, use that log. The quint will actually be gone. The payment on the quint would be gone. Make payment on the rescue.

Just keep the money going. That's all. lottery tickets. Start buying [laughter] lottery tickets every every every week. Buy lottery tickets. So, what's the uh thought on the board as far as putting this out onto the warrant or well

Well, I think I think it's I think it goes to the town. Goes to the town. Yeah, I think that's I think it does. Okay, I'll save my comments to the floor and we will before we uh when we put the warrant together, we'll take a vote on whether there's a recommendation from the board. Okay. Okay. Um was there anything else on the fire rescue? Oh yes, the next page. Thank you. Um so now

um we have the uh to improve emergency response. We've got option one, option two, option three. Option four is status quo. um that it works now, there's a tone. If nobody's responds, they wait five minutes and then they issue a second tone and that that would be when mutual aid would come in.

If there's no response to the second tone, it's not supposed to go to a third tone without mutual aid being called. Okay. I'm just trying I'm trying to figure out what the what the time gap is. It trying to equate it to time. It depends on the dispatcher obviously and how much other stuff they've got going on. But theoretically there should be no more than a seven to eight minute delay and going to the next service because they do the initial tone.

Uh and then they give it five minutes. Um, which there's one dispatcher, he's hardressed to give it three minutes. So, it depends a lot a lot of it's related to smiling so he knows what I'm talking about. Um, [clears throat] so it a lot depends on the dispatch, but theoretically if they played by the rules, it should be no more than a seven to 8 minute delay before they get a hold of Julian service to say, "Hey, that they're not coming up with anybody. We need you to start a response." Um, there have been times we've actually told them that not we, if you stop and think about it, in the middle of the night, I can [clears throat] attest to this. In the middle of the night, sound asleep, you get woken up, by the time you're heading out the door, you're probably at that second.

Well, I was going to say it's 7 to 8 minutes. Durham land mass of Durham is is pretty big. And so depending on where you're coming from, what you're doing when you get toned, I mean, there's all kinds. So, it's not unusual for them once they get to the second tone for people to have actually signed on uh and said, "I'm heading to the station." But the process is until the apparatus go. They're going to keep doing to so they can get to three tones, but they've usually based it on, well, no, I've got this one and this one that have signed on, so I don't need to convey it. They've usually asked, a lot of times they'll ask the person, "Do I need to start another service? I only have you signing on. Should I start another service?" So there is a sale fate mechanism but it does it does allow for a seven minute 7 to 8 minute delay in the process.

Will that change at all if anything ever happens over in Lisbon in regard to I mean tone and and and and speedwise I guess if they decide to get rid of that center over there that [snorts] um of course that's the big question everybody's asking. I know that

ideally I mean the best way to have that change ideally in my arms would be regional dispatch centers which was what they originally hoped when they put it together and stuff and I'm not sure if it's going to keep going or not keep going. Um, but ideally the best way to make that happen is in regional dispatch centers because theoretically if we're all on the same dispatch center, it's no longer a case of calling up uh this other community on their emergency line. For the example of frequent, they have to call Brunswick dispatch. So when they call Brunswick dispatch, they have to call on an emergency line and they can convey the 9 relay the 911 call to them, but they have to go through. So there's even though it's seven or eight minutes from us, there's another minute or two there. Whereas if it was in the same dispatch center, even like the automatic aid, automatic aid, um, anything structural, there's a tanker and an

engine called toned out instantly from the next closest tanker as well as an town as well as another engine from the second closest town to that location. And it's automatic. However, it's only automatic to the point that the it's a dispatcher. If it's Woodman, great. It's automat. it's really truly automatic cuz it should be simultaneous tones if the dispatcher knows how to do it. But if they don't, it requires a phone call. So it's not

right not as automatic as it could be. So I don't know if it'll, you know, I don't know if it'll have a you would have to have even with regional just by our geography and county, right? We we would we would still be c chances are [clears throat] Freeport and us would never be on the same dispatch,

right? No. And the sad part of that is is we're in Andrew County yet more of our mutual aid interaction. Um I mean it's Lisbon and then Freeport and P. There's very little with Auburn. There's very little with Brunswick. Brunswick's a little bit, but

Freeport dispatches out of Brunswick. Where does Pound dispatch out? Okay. they dispatch had stuck with Freeport when we were doing the dispatching and stuff would have been offered a contract and they they'd still talk to us. But when I was doing my research it, you remember like when I did the research on moving um you got to see some serious cost savings to make it worthwhile moving to a different dispatch. You don't want to do it just for cost because you're not going to see enough cost savings no matter where you move to to do it to make it worthwhile,

right? But I just wondered if there was an advantage with or if there [clears throat] was a difference with there is an advantage. They use actually more electronic stuff and I'm not trying to trash Lisa. They they actually use IMC fully. So if apparatus are tied up and out of service when a dispatcher's screen it automatically brings up that hey all of these people are going. If you say I want a second alarm it's setting right on their screen. All they you know the phone numbers are right in front of them. They don't have to look in a book or anything. both both Brunswick LA 911 and state police over

in Gray actually use that IMC system and use it that way. No, I was actually my question was way simpler. [laughter] It was way similar. Usually my answer is it too in depth or too uh Yeah. Well, no. So it was whether or not there's an advantage in terms of speed and coverage from a mutual aid standpoint of dispatching out of the same facility that most of your mutual aid comes out.

So if most of our mutual aid is coming out of the port and panel well no probably we do more mutual aid with Cumberland Towns and that should have been my statement. That's how I came across. We do more mutual aid with Cumberland County community than we do Andrew Scoggin because the only one we really interact with in Andrew Scoggin to speak of is Lis but we do

fairly decent amount of actually new Glouester as well. It's not unusual for New Glouester to be over us to go over there usually for the tank or something like that. So we probably use new Gloucester more than we actually use

district in between. And the these options, all three of them are somebody's at the station basically all hours of the day and night. No, no, no. Um, so option one, what does that cover? because it does have one on duty at a time and it does have weekends and

yeah it uh [clears throat] option one it basically what I and you know I know we had an in-depth conversation about it before and being able to see it and I've actually started putting the paper together that kind of explains the process to this point and there were actually eight options that I seriously considered and well looked at I won't say I seriously considered that's wrong looked at There's two higher options, but I thought because of even though they're my ideal options, they were definitely cost prohibitive. Um, and there's below the option four, which isn't here, leaving it as is. There's really two other lower options, the ones you asked about about outsourcing and stuff like that. Um,

but outsourcing one, you just services, you're going to go way downhill in service. And really, as far as if you're looking for cost savings, cost savings aren't there. If you look at what would it cost us versus the revenue generated and stuff. In fact, you're going to have to pay. They want cost savings. So, I threw out two at the top, two at the bottom,

but no ambulance. What's that? We wouldn't need an ambulance if we outsourced. You do what? We wouldn't need an ambulance if we outsource. Yeah. Well, it depends on what your vision of outsourcing is. If your vision of outsourcing is you don't do EMS at all, then yes, you're correct. But if your vision of outsourcing is that you go to first responder service and you still have people coming to the homes and doing EMS, then the answer is no. So, the only way you get rid of the ambulance is if you don't do EMS at all. that the Durham Fire and Rescue or Durham Fire doesn't get toned up at all. If it's just rescue, if it's 10:55 yet, we'll still go. We don't start cutting the car until the outside ambulance gets there because we can't stop that process. I guess going back in time, that's where we started from. And that's actually part of the reason we put it in place. And we went first responder

service initially, but then we looked at it and it's like, okay, we got first responder service. We're really we're at a point where the revenues generated are going to be two or three times what our actual increase in costs are going to be. So if you go to first responder it definitely is not financially never mind service. Financially it makes no sense. If you do um go to no rescue

it depends on the course of the outsourcing because you're going to lose you're going to you don't have to do the rescue. Right now the rescue really is almost if you stop to think about it 72,000 the costs that are probably in the budget and then you take 240 to replace a rescue they're about so you take 12 years 20,000 a year

I mean plus whatever if we decide almost it's almost a wash the cost yeah that's without this it's almost a wash right now um never mind the detriment to service because I think most people when they say Well, maybe we should outsource. What you have in your head is Durham Fire still responding and doing first response and somebody else coming in and doing the transport.

There is Yeah, it'll actually cost you more money. Part of my reason for asking that is because some of the times you've just shown up, you know, maybe five, six, seven minutes before you even get to your car to hit. That's that's a lot of time.

Mhm. When you're thinking about what what you're going to if it's a heart attack or whatever it is or somebody's bleeding to death or whatever because it's not just the six or seven minutes took you to get the car started. Now you could be five, six, seven minutes away from wherever you're going depending on where you're going in town

and you're going to the station first. Correct. So you're So you're pushing you're pushing that envelope of 20 minutes. I'm dead. Whereas if there's a person at that building sitting beside that ambulance 20 ft away. They're on the road in what? Under a minute.

No, because they're not going by themselves. So, there's still going to be more people. The only way you can make it so that you're going to get like two minutes out of the station, 3 minutes out of the station, and even then it's not going to be sweeping. You got to do the two, which is one of those things I researched, but you might as well easy numbers figure 50 grand per person with benefits. So, you know, you're looking at $400,000 to staff with two people 24/7. Um, ideally,

I love that. [clears throat] Uh, me, too. When you think about it, could happen to you, but I think I'm not I think my job is not to just look at ideas. Let's get that life light up here. We'll have that behind your place, too.

I'm supposed to look at what's in the best interest of the ser the citizens of the town of Durham, but then I'm supposed to weigh the financial impact as well. So that's why that's not an option. But that really if you to do what you're saying, you need two people 24/7 247 with a 42-hour average work week. You have to have four people per rotation for each each position. You're going to have four people. So that's eight people. So that's 400 400,000 plus.

So if you're only going to have one person at the bottom, they can't really roll until you have the seven minute guy coming in. What it relies on is during the days, which is our predominant difficult time is during the day. But our predominant difficult time, it relies on utilizing the chief and the part-time help to take care of most of the gap there and then in the evenings filling it with a driver. Um, but the driver would not be staffed at the station. They'd be coming from the house. So, you're still at the mercy of the response time from of the driver from the house. So, in reality, you could we could be paying and and having this full-time coverage and still have situations where we have to rely on mutual aid or somewhere else because we don't have it staffed. There's only one guy there. There's only one guy available and we don't have sufficient staff to to go out.

Your question is in reality we could. Yes, in reality you could. It was still going to be have the seven minute wait because we're waiting. [clears throat] He's waiting for a guy to get there. I'm sure he's going to wait impatiently, but yeah, he's waiting. None of these three options that I put down here have no holes in them. There isn't one of them that doesn't have a hole.

Fewer holes than you have today. But there's not each one of them have fewer holes. What I feel is a more palatable price than some of the ones that because obviously like the eight full-time people to create two full-time positions there that there's no holes there.

So, yeah, you couldn't pay me to present that on. [laughter] was what was your uh what was your thought on how much was the stipens on these? What was uh for you when somebody signs up for a night or a weekend or something? What was the stipen consideration? [clears throat]

Would they utilize for figures was $25 for evening stipens and $75 for 24hour weekend stipen? In other words, should it be 24 hours? They would sign on for 24 hours. Okay. And is that what you've been paying thus far with? I know you've gone to a stipen

actually we do hourly pay for anybody we can get to cover during the daytime. Okay. So it's kind of like pdeium, but we don't do stipens. And any stipens I do have are actually for the the deputies and stuff, but there's no coverage stipens.

Okay. It in all honesty, that's why I occasionally end up with holes in the coverage assignments unless I could double the amount of EMS. No, maybe not double, but add another 50% again of the EMS personnel to the department. Then I might not have the whole, but people are willing to do some, but obviously actually surprisingly enough, I had people sign up for Christmas Day, but New Year's Day, I had nobody sign up to cover New Year's Day. I mean, it it tends to go when you really have weekend things. They're going to have weekend things that no, and then sometimes it winds up. So, they sign up. I would imagine Super Bowl Sunday is probably

No, no, there it's coverage from the house. It uh I actually can't require them to stay at the We can't require them to stay at the station. If we require them to stay at the station, we have to pay. Um if if you had one of these [clears throat] options, you had one of these persons that was there for 12 hours, that person up there waiting for does that is that person allowed to meet him at the site?

So, would that save time? Oh, yeah. Yeah. It it depends on the nature of the situation. So the rescue could could leave the barn with just one. It usually does periodically now one person in it and the other person meet them on site

periodically. Now, if it's an emergency response and somebody signs direct, um the the driver or or the EMS provider sometimes will actually take the rescue and head because logistically it makes more sense for somebody to coming from the other side of town to drop off um rather than come to the station and go back to where they just came from. They'll actually drop off. The only downside is a drop driver can't drop off. It has to be a license provider that drops off. Otherwise, they have

they can go, but they just got to sit down the road. So, let's say that the the person left the bar with the ambulance and they got to the on site, but the other person hasn't showed up yet. That person can't do nothing till that person shows up.

Depends on if he's a licensed provider. Only people that can do patient care, it has to be a light. And once I get a licensed provider on scene, um, we can utilize people that could do certain functions. It's under our license as a licensed provider, but we can utilize people to do certain function.

What I was getting at is the ambulance sitting in my driveway, but that person isn't getting out doing anything because the other person hasn't showed up. Right. As a practical going crazy because it was the driver, not the communication.

Depends on who's licensed. If the person's license is driving, then they could start something while waiting. And it the communication between the two, I can guarantee you that you would not know they were close enough to be sitting in your driveway. But actually, they'd be invisiting me. If they did go further than that, they would stage down the road. If the license was not on scene and they didn't have a license, they would stay down out of sight on the road because we would be not just so you wouldn't see it, but we are in violation of state law if we respond with a nice licensed person and they drop off on scene first. Every once in a while I'll get a new member that's allowed to go to the scene and they'll start going to the scene and I'll have to smack them and say, "No, you can't go to the scene before we get licensed." But if you so say hypothetically you got this person that's sitting at the station or it's a

PDM person or it's a and they're licensed and and can and and they get the in the rescue and they go on site and they're the first person there and they are licensed but the second guy hasn't arrived yet. Second person hasn't arrived yet. Do they the driver

they don't sit there? If they're licensed, they don't set that if they So are I guess my question really would be is are the driver any of the drivers also licensed providers and would they would they respond as a solo or is I would imagine that's a violation of company policy.

The drivers for the most part they're going to once in a while a driver will say hey I'm coming from here if you want me to meet you on scene or something. But for the most part it's the other way around. The license provider says well hey

I'm going to drop off on scene. go ahead and respond with the Okay. But generally the driver isn't the licensed provider. Yeah. Generally the the driver is going to the station coming with the rig. They they're not actually unless they're going unless they're directed to. The response guidelines don't allow them to go directly to the scene on their own.

have to decide what they want to do. Right. And I I think this is one that we don't necessarily have to um decide today. I think we present this to the budget committee as well. Um I'm I'm not sure, but I'm almost thinking this should be a separate if we put something out there. This should be a separate warrant article this year and next year if if if it p if something like this passes next year, we roll it into the budget. But this year I uh where this is a considerable change into the way that we're doing things. I think this should be a separate

I agree and that's what I was thinking anyways. But I would actually hope it would be that way because in all honesty I don't know how the two depending on what is selected if if one of these is selected. I guess I and part of the reason I presented it this way is I really don't know how the two are going to entwine I guess would be a good way to phrase it and stuff. But uh um yeah, cuz there's going to be there's going to be many actually that's another piece of the eight full-time people in the rotation. So you got two there all the time. We're not set up to take two full-time people at the station 247. I have a shower, but I don't have sleeping quarters. So I'd have to

got tables in there. Yeah. Well, I'd have to do something with the modular and move offices so that I could utilize existing smaller offices for sleeping quarters. So, anything like that. If you're only doing two 12-hour shifts, you don't necessarily need the sleeping quarters. If you're only doing 12-hour shifts, you don't need sleeping quarters, but

yeah, when we start to get into the 24s, it means any relocation of modules or offices needs to be happening simultaneously prior to. So, that's another thing in my opinion that was detrimental to the recommendation in 2014. [clears throat] Okay. Any anything else from anybody? Thank you.

Thank you. And this Oh, we we didn't go over the the uh salaries up here. You skipped over that. We're going we're going to probably do all the salaries al together. Oh, okay. Because All right. Um the salary discussions often get into things that we need to be in executive session.

No, that's fine. And uh please please uh keep us to this. So when we do make decisions on that and if we do change things we need to make we need to make sure we notify department heads. Absolutely. Right away first thing.

Yeah. I agree. Certified mail the whole nine yards. Well I don't know about that but yeah I want to make sure everybody's aware of it. Singing telegrams. Okay. Shall we go to administrative and start working our Yes. Where is that beginning?

Damn it. Oh, there it is. again, we've got we've got the personnel and the b supports and benefits that we'll Yep. I jump over [clears throat] insuranceances. These are both calculated out I assume. Okay. Computers and networking. Um I think we need to discuss in this with the uh software, hardware, etc. We need to discuss support. um as uh former selectman Libby

has suggested and um I don't know if you have some of his I I I do um but the support actually I had a different one it went into telecommunications okay um Jeffrey Leighton um and I spoke and and Jeffrey told me to put it in telecommunications so everything

support uh that doesn't include the purchase of the server it does okay so that's all in so that's all So, we don't need to discuss that in this in this item. Okay. Um, I don't know if this is the right spot to mention it, but I know that we're having issues with those computers up there. It's steadily. They get worse and worse and worse. And I know we're going to throw in that $10,000 or whatever that money was to hope to get approved. Between now and then, if things go down in here, what are we going to do? We ain't going to do anything by hand.

We'll call We're going to have to call somebody. Is isn't there any money in any emergency fund or overlay or somewhere that we can take out and have that fixed now and not wait and then put it back afterward? So, what's he talking about? Computers going down. I This is

We We've been having a a serious issue with Shannon's computer. Um when it starts up, uh if it's turned off and it starts up, it talks about how it's it's startup process skipped something and it's corrupted. and do you want to check over the corruption? So, you do the scan and it says it says it's okay and it starts up and it works, but um it's disconcerting. Um

isn't Shannon's computer relatively new? It's not Shannon's computer. It's the desk table, the server and everything else, isn't it? It's it's the the counter computer Shannon's counter computer, not her computer. Sorry. Um, and the server issue is is that it's slow

and it's that's because it's probably maxed out. I don't know if it's maxed out, but it's certainly not um optimally it's not a good server for what we use it for and it's not optimally set up, I don't believe, because I understand it was down for an hour or two or something one day. I think I was in here the day after or whatever and you guys mentioned you had to do some by hand. My thought my my fear is and I've heard this numerous times from in the office off and on that you know we're really running on a string and not a shoestring more like a thread and that's not good especially since that office running properly is really where our revenue is coming from

right so that's what's making me nervous especially when this is the first time I heard about Ruth so if this is your your department needs help you get a gel I know I know Josh talking about this for months. Well, he's telling me this

vague vague very vague generalities. Um, you know, you'd hear Josh throw out something and so on, but I mean I I wasn't aware of what was going, you know, but here's Well, the computer just started a week or two ago. Okay. Well, here's the question that I have. understanding that that we pay all the licensing fees. We have Trio, we're doing the server piece. An actual desktop desktops right now are super cheap. I mean, there we're talking about

it's it's two or three hundred bucks at this point. It's a setup for it because you you purchase it. So, we're going to have to but we have all the licenses for all the software. We're not going to have to pay for No, we basically we're we're going to have to pay whatever $500, $700, whatever it is for the desktop and then $100 an hour for who? Somebody to set it up basically.

Um Well, I can actually set it up. You can? Okay. Yeah, for the most part, you know, downloading Trio and everything like that onto the computers that that's something I can do and I can probably map printers. So, so why don't I mean number one I see we have 1500 in computer hardware which is the computers

well 500 is laser $500 is for a new laser printer for the yeah but if if we've got a computer in there that's bad we can we don't have to wait for this budget we we we let's get the let's get a computer in there the serve it being slow we can deal with that

right until and so on but if we've got a computer that's being bad we don't have to wait for anything we we can spend up to a certain amount of our budget Right. And let's I mean, let's get it replaced if if that's what needs to happen. Uh we

I don't know if that's what needs to happen or if somebody needs to come in and and do whatever it is that you do to computers to make them not do this. So, and there's the issue. Where [laughter] where is this on our re replacement cycle?

Uh I don't know when we got this one to be honest. I wasn't here. So, it's more than three years old. Yeah. I'm pretty sure this is one of the ones that's near the cuz we've we've replaced yours. We've replaced uh the two desk computers. Um I think

replaced Donna's and she we've replaced Donna's and the one out here. So the two the two counter computers are probably next anyway. So they're probably the oldest. Yes. So rather than uh I mean I think it's if it's doing that, it's probably telling you it's time to go ahead and replace it. I mean, especially if your replacement is around $500 and you're pay you're paying $100 for somebody to come in and look at it, right?

An hour. Yeah. I hate to see that go down. Then on a Friday afternoon, we got to hand write everything out that customers ain't going to be happy about that. So, well, you if that one goes down, you can still do transa Can you do transactions at your desk?

Do transactions out of Pam's desk and Shannon's desk, I believe. Right. It's just not as convenient. It's not as convenient, but you can do transactions at at the desks, which would be a much better backup than writing it out.

Well, what about is that part I'm not really a techie guy. I'm I'm a rocking chisel guy. So, the server thing or whatever this thing that's getting close to being masked out, what is that all about? It's so so think of it like like an octopus. So, there's the body of the octopus, which is the server, and then there's all the computers, and the computers are all connected to the server through the through the octopus. And the server um uh holds

a follower though. Yeah, [laughter] the server holds most of the information that we access. When does it shoot out ink? Can Can you write it? Can you draw this up on the board, please? I could. No, I mean, so [snorts] we are actually Did you want to address it? I I'm just gonna come out and help Ruth if she wants. [laughter]

The best way you can draw the octopus if you want. I've had it explained to other people or watched it be explained as it's your workspace and like a kitchen. You have your countertop and your cupboard space. The storage facility of a server is your

cupboard space. your RAM usage, which is how it can get overloaded, is how much counter space you have. So, like you can only do so much stuff on your counter space. Like you were talking about the papers on your desk. You need a bigger desk to spread them all out. Once you run out of that room, that's when you start to overload your computer cuz it can no longer work in that confined space of like Jill's desk. And then the covered speech is how it

can ask you a question actually alen though. So so the server that was a good description. That wasn't a good description. Better than my octopus. But I was following but the RAM uh is is it more important to have enough RAM on the server or to have enough RAM on the individual computers that are connecting to the server?

Depends on what the computers are doing. [snorts] Okay. Cuz if when you think about it is like you each thing you have open on your computer. So like you have spreadsheets. So you have PowerPoint, Excel, and Yeah. Outlook all open.

Yep. Those are Mark's three papers on his desk. If his desk can only hold those three papers in that area, that's the extent of what that computer can do at a time. Okay? Where the same thing goes on a server. So the server would be each computer connected to the server would be the equivalent of a document that you have open at a time. So like four documents on the desk opposed to one or two.

So the idea now that that my computer, Paul's computer, Donna's computer, um both of the counter computers and Pam's computer and Shannon's computer are now all connected to the server might be overloading the server because we have too many computers that are working on the server.

So if you're working on stuff that's on the server like Trio, Trio is on the server. Um, so if like four of you are on Trio, which is on the server, that might be the extent of what the server is able to maintain or keep up with because it's processing what you're telling it and trying to process where it's connected to as well. So it's

okay. So I mean, at this point, my thought is the server is it may not be optimal, but the server is working. We have the quotes for servers and we can we can put that out in the budget and and then in April hopefully get it passed and then we can re then we can look at replacing the server. I think the the computer having the restart issues and probably takes you 15 20 minutes to get it going.

We've stopped turning it off. That was our solution. But yeah, at some point you may have to though and but so so I think the computer at this point's a higher priority and the easier uh a server costs considerably more.

Right. I get that. That's why I say if we're going to put this money out there to fix this whole system, there is money somewhere that we could use to make this so that that doesn't go down and we walk in here, we got people pulling.

Well, we we've we've got quotes for that. we've and she's uh the the telecommunications budget and so on, but it's for the server. I don't think the server is something that we have to do today. Okay. Um we'll leave that up to you experts, but

I mean the computer it's it's working. It may be it may be painful at times. It may be a little slow, but it's it's working. It is working. Yes. And the computer is actually h um is actually really having issues, right? So,

um, and the computer we can do now because it's, uh, it's a relatively low ticket item. And, and there's a stop. Yep. Okay. So, all right. So, the Do you think the 15 the 1500 is is is enough? U, I think I'd rather go to 2,000 if we're going to automatic if we're going to automatically if we're See, the $1,000 is kind of my emergency money in case something crashes on me. Um, so if we could put another 500 in for the computer, I'd like that.

So, um, I was our I see we didn't spend anything last year, which is unfortunate because we were trying to do at least one computer a year. Well, I had changed over all the computers that I wanted to change over. Right. But but we hadn't apparently gotten to the counter ones. And I'm thinking, you know, maybe it might make sense if we can bump that up to 2,000 and get one now. And if we still haven't expended it later in the year, replace the second one. And then we'll then we'll have done a full replacement and we can look at coming back around because really life span of computers is about four years and you you really should be looking.

So that 1500 would be to 2,000. Yep. Going the wrong way, but [laughter] you do what you got to do. Yeah. Computer stuff is computer software. You're not planning on anything this year from what I see. I'm not. I purchased my publisher as you can see and I'm I'm happy.

Okay. Trio software. It went up this year. It is what it is. Y Okay. Equipment lease. That's It is what it is. And how many more years do we have left on that lease? Um I believe it's 2019. Okay. All right. Um publications. Um, you know, you're going to get a question on this one.

Well, that was the code. We talked about this the last time. That was the code books, okay, that we had budgeted to purchase last year, but they didn't come out last year. The new code books weren't available, so we still have to have them.

I apologize because I was not here when you first went over it. Oh, exact. That's why I was stepping on Ruth's toes and answering that question. Yeah. [snorts] Um, so maybe I should go and say, is there anything that anybody has that they've

identified as possibly changing? Uh, I got $200 question mark and total $500 and it's hooked up to generator maintenance cuz we've Yeah, I had 600. I thought we had we changed that to 600, I think. Increased increased to 600 a

increased it to 600. Okay. Sorry. That's what we did. Okay. I got the wrong way. I know. 600. Oh, my note says increased to 300. Yeah, that's what I thought, too. But well, if it's it's already at 300. It's already at three. So, if you three or 600, that makes sense.

I I think Well, generator is it's it's a useful piece of equipment until you really need it. It just sits there doing nothing till you really need it. When you really need it, you really need it. Especially in a place like this. We've we've used it this year a couple times already.

We expended almost 600 last year. That's why we went up 600 this year, right? We had some issues last year. [clears throat] concrete. I don't have any notes. Move up some of that. Okay. So, question under I'm down to the I'm down to election. I just want to know uh for are we putting in for another set of

no new booths this year? No, we're good for now. Okay. And I I know I I see that's gone down, which makes sense because it's an off year. Yeah. okay knowing? Well, we have 24 $2,500 that's already going to be spent. Um, we spent

last year's 67 67 and the year before we p spent 86. You know, unless something goes wrong. I mean, we could move it up to 10,000, but I wouldn't go any higher than 10,000. Well, if you think we're I mean if you think we're okay and I kind of hope so, but

I mean unless we run into the problem to be honest is if we run into such a big issue that we we need a lot of legal expenses, I think we'd have to do a special town meeting anyways. Yeah. what I was impressed by was that the total increase was less than half a percent. Okay.

Actually just for my edification on uh let's see the uh code code enforcement salary and what is what is the difference and what is the difference in the request because that one is considerably considerably more than any other and I just kind of want

so what I what I put in there was the request and the request was for $26 an up from up from 22 22. Now, does that and I saw Paul today and I meant to ask this. Does that include having him take on does that envision that he would take on some of the planning

piece and that's really what what he really has taken that on and I think he's done all and he well and I think he's done well above and beyond a codes. I mean the the work [clears throat] he's done with runaround and and the grants and

I have no problem discussing all this but I think we should go on executive session when we discuss all us. No I I'm just asking for I got plenty of paperwork. Oh no I just wanted to make sure that that that included. I'm just asking for the information as as to what the request is.

That's what the request is. [clears throat] Thank you. Okay. Um so are are we good with the administration budget right now? I am. Okay. Animal control. So, we have question on that too on animal control. Hold on. Can we can we do we want to look at

Oh, the capital project. Capital projects. Or do we not want to look at No, I that's I'm fine. Let's look at that. So, obviously there's a lot of issues with this building that need to be rectified. All of the money in this capital budget comes from reserves. So

any of this money that's not spent would go back into reserves. With that in mind, we have had um there there's we have a quote for the a roof. So that's a pretty good figure. The renovation Paul's been bringing to you guys different ideas for the renovations of this building possibly. Um and we've gotten the idea that you're looking towards the less renovations. So that's why there's the 20,000 there.

Y the painting um wouldn't you we wouldn't paint till after the res renovations would done was done because that would be not right. Um so uh there's $5,000 for painting that would be including somebody purchasing to get somebody to come in and actually do the painting. Um, I had always envisioned that we would paint ourselves, but um, nobody else seems to like that idea. And [laughter]

it's that doesn't happen. I mean, it it there's never enough time. No, there hasn't been, that's for sure. And then the heating system, we're having some issues with our heating system. It's mostly the cooling system and not the heating system, but the units are combined. Um, so this heating system price is to install a few of the

heat pumps. Thank you. The heat pumps around the office to assist with that. Um because we also have backup um electrical heating if we really needed it. So that's what those figures are for. Okay. Um just out of Well, we probably have that. What What do we have in these accounts? It's probably up. Well, the municipal building account would be completely spent down. Um, but obviously if we didn't spend it, we' put it back. And and these are are things I mean this building is from 1985, I think.

86 and I think it opened in seven, but yeah, 87. Um Um, it needs renovations because we don't have enough office space for everybody that's here. Um, it needs it's going to need a new roof sooner or later. Um, if we don't do it this year, the money can go back in. Um, the heating system you know,

needs to be done. Needs to be done. And it really has never Well, I don't know when it was last painted, but it it needs some some work with that, too. Um, the town office reserve account, that one would have 10 330 town office reserves. That one has 37,000 in it. So, if um

So, that would be 27. Okay. Thank you. Um Okay. And I got 10,348 on That's how much I should be spending off out of there out of Oh, okay. It is. But I have 37,000 in the account. So, biting off more than you can that you than you can do this year? I mean, should we like the roof if we're not seeing any issues right now? Should we should we wait on the roof or you know I that's just

Yeah. You know, hey, everybody else gets a roof. Why can't they get a roof? Well, [laughter] let's go down. And is there one town our town garage got one? Why can't we go in here? And is there a potential that, you know, we may be able to get a contractor in that does the renovation and the roof all at once and and so then

fire station got paved. Why can't we get a roof over you know that that we may get a better deal by making it a a a single project. I mean, I know that I know that the roof is is definitely coming due because it was 30 years ago and these probably weren't architectural singles. So, that's a 20

It's at the end of the life. Yeah, that's that's end of life. Yeah. And I'd rather deal with it before there's an issue there. They are starting to show. I've looked at a couple. I'll look at it closer next day or so, but they are starting to show. Yeah, it was it it was just a question and I know that we have the money on hand um that we can do this. Probably my suggestion is we do something like this this year but then starting next year we start

because this will this will actually take care of a lot of the things that need to be done in the building. We start putting aside again uh and start building those funds up again. Oh yeah, absolutely. Do do we you said you had an estimate, so this price is pretty close. Do you have that estimate so you know how many square that is? I'm just curious.

It's It should be in the back of your administration section. It never gave a square. Yeah, it doesn't. Yeah. No. Okay. Well, we looked at it last time like never gave a square. Just give a price. Okay. Then no, I don't know what the type.

Maybe we could maybe we could ask call and ask. Yep. Give me square. Just I can tell you I can tell you if it were in the right area or not. Do that. I can move it myself. And I got an idea. You already got the sweater. Maybe.

Oh, he measured it. He's got the Okay. Cuz he could figure it if he didn't. I'm not even seeing that. Um he uh handwritten. Oh, wow. That's all. Oh, yep. kind of handwritten. Yeah, there you go. sniffling over here. It's okay.

So, no difference between No, between the architectural and the architectural and standard. Yeah. Well, you know, they they're roughly about two bucks or so a bundle. so different now than they used to be 12 15 now they're not really

because so many people doing architecturals if they want the other ones they can pay extra for it which to me just makes no sense architecturals they look better they much better okay so are we good with the request for the capital budget right now set with that

okay okay so we're moving on to animal control so we have the uh uh the request from the animal control officer for the increase in the salary and that's I think everything else stayed the same from what everything else stayed the same.

April, you said you you added the dog license into it. Is that what you did? Yeah. Well, the the late fees just the late fees. So, the license itself. So, the license itself is is structured by state and the the way the state works is $3 of the money that comes in goes back to the state on a fixed dog. It's $6 for fixed dog.

$2 of it goes to the animal control officer. So, it goes that line and a dollar of it goes to the clerk. So $2 of that license fee is in part of Yes. is in his budget and that but [clears throat] then you put all the late fees all the on

the $25 late fees are in there as well. Yep. After you asked me to last year. I think there may have been a couple that got you know so we had originally hecked this I just gave you this one today. Yes, you know, we went this way because people were concerned that the the 8,600

that we were being charged by Lisbon was too much money and and we could do it cheaper and and now based on this proposal that we've received from our animal control officer looking for 100% increase in Oh, he's just he's he's swinging hard. He's just he's just

he's looking at Brunswick because he does a lot of work with those guys down there. Absolutely. And I told him, I've told him right to him. I said, "Well, that's because they got the tax base to pay it. You got to understand what you what you're what you're competing against." So that's where I think where he's coming up with a price where he wants. But then ain't no way we'll go back to Lisbon before we did that. I mean, that's foolish.

And we we we up 500 from last year, right? Yeah. I my suggestion was 6,000. I I bumped from a thousand. Yeah. I I think that would be fair. I mean, he's uh and it's still under what we used to pay, right? Did was it Jeff said something about $75 a call, but I heard a number thrown.

So, so if you look attached to that thing in the back, I went through No, I'm the animal control was stapled to other stuff, right? Okay. So, I went through his report. Um, and that is a synopsis if if you see it. Okay, that's a synopsis of of what he did last year according to his report.

All right, so if you So total incident 66 is that what we total incences 66 and those are incident in instances not calls because there were like the dog by the the bridge there was like a series of several calls. So that was an instance. So there were 66 instances um 14 of them that were wildlife were referred to the warden.

So if you take that 66 minus 14 oops that didn't two thank you and then you take the 52 divide it into the 55 5500 about 100 bucks a call. About 100 bucks a call. Yep. So So the on the second page you got total complaints 69. So those are just complaints he did.

This was in 2014 when we were using Oh yes. We're right on the same. Yeah. Yes. We're we're about the same. Yes. And if we bumped them up a thousand, where would he be a per call? If we buffed him up a thousand from last year, he'd be up to 65.

65 a call. It's pretty decent. 65, which would be roughly two. And if we left what he wants, where would he? Uh, so you mean the 11,000 divided by be double. Yeah, it's it's going to be so it'd be almost $200 a call. Uh, bumping it up a,000 would be roughly $20 extra a call.

Yeah. Now, he has also requested that he would be charging extra if we had if he had to go to court. Um, I've always every animal control officer I've ever known, it's been included in the stipen. Yeah, it's a salary part of it. Um,

so so I I would say if that's the case then and this includes his mileage, too, right? What we've done. Yes, that does include his mileage, which which comes out the $500 is about right for his mileage because his mileage last year was about a,000. Um, and it was about 54 cents a mile. So, it was right around 500. 6,000 covers the mileage and it would still fix the $500 if he has to go to court. He has to pay out of that. And if not, well, he's got himself a $500 mage.

Don't speak. If you look at if he bumped it up to 65, [snorts] if that sounds fair, I'm just one fourth. What's that make the total? 125734. So it's it's down 16966 from last year, but it's well it's because my we we cut out mileage and put it up,

right? And also supplies we we brought down quite a bit, right? So in 17 we're budgeting 12573. Yep. I think the 64 that really we expended 11 you know and that could go up or down five six calls. So with the numbers and so on, putting it out and so on. I think we're getting to the we're we're actually getting to the point that next year it might not be a bad idea to get a comparison for contracting it out again just to see where we're at.

Keep apples. Yeah, I agree. that not everybody really wants to do. So, it's a unique person that does it, you know. Yep. Fortunately, I don't think there's as many of those types of people around. She'd like to have, right? And and obviously, one of the the advantages of when we

you know, when we when it was being done by Lisbon, it was a dispatched service. a call came and and in theory there was then a response as opposed to as as the current gentleman indicated at our last meeting. If he's in the middle of something, he's not coming. If it's not that, you know, it's it's not his life and and he'll

Well, I know the one I know my wife had called two or three times. She didn't get no response. I mean, that doesn't how I weigh my decision because that's one person out of the whole town, right? I I would kind of tend to agree. It would have been like us hired a a code guy that was enforcing three four towns. That's stretching a little bit.

So, we're gonna go to go I'm with Mark on this one. Did we get the on the 65? Yes. I was I'm I'm fine with the 65. Do you want to change the 65? Yeah. Go for 11 to 65. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I do think it might be worth at least getting some sense of coverage in the event that he says no, not a chance. I I asked for 11 and and so that we have some idea of

um because ultimately we do have to have someone, right? And yes, definitely there are other options. Okay. I believe. Okay. Just kind of have at least a a sense in the back of our minds of what those other options might be. think that he probably

if this is not well received that I that's what I expect all the departmental heads to do. I expect them to come in here and swing hard. I expect the chief to I expect Kelvin to I expect them all. I'm just saying it's good to have a plan B in case

I think they're crazy. I do. I mean that's right. I expect it all. I do expect but the good thing I've noticed is with the exception of a couple things and those maybe not necessarily out of the realm if you look at the last two or three years or three or four years we aren't really out there stretching it that much. Nope.

In my opinion. So, all right. A lot of things have changed. So, go ahead. Assessing um assessing. That's a contract, isn't that? Yeah, that's mostly contracted. Cemeteries. Cemeteries. I didn't know we should. Looks good. Conservation.

Hold on. Wait for everybody else. Conservation is pretty much the same. Donations. Donations to talk about. Let's talk. We got to put the binders on this one. Everybody wants them. I know that I do. I've got to put my paperwork in.

over the course. These are the ones. So, if you look under the INC/DGCR column though, that's the changes. Um, basically uh like uh seniors, is it seniors plus? Yeah, seniors plus. Oh, I see. Yeah. Yeah. Seniors Plus is ask asking for an extra 327 from what we gave them last year.

Tri County, we didn't give them any and they're asking for 500. Equity Health Equity Alliance is asking for 500. Oasis Free Clinic is asking for 700. And the other any other numbers in there are what we already did last year. And so

ones we we've done traditionally, I think um for the most part. So we've done like at one we' done Tri County uh back in 2014 was the last year we did it. So we've gone two years without doing anything for Tri County. Um Red Cross we

stopped in 2014 as well. They did not have a request in this year. Um but yes, most the other ones have so Leo, Andrew Scoggin, uh Home Healthc Care, Community Concepts, and Seniors Plus and Western. So Western Main Transportation is new in 2015 and LifeFlight was new in 2015. So we swapped we took two out and put two in. Um you have the some of the uh requests in here. Um, a number of them actually will say what they've done for the uh for people in the town. And other than that,

I think the town people decide which ones they want to and you know, there's two schools of thought. We we tend to go with the oh well we've always done this town or we've always done this group, but we do get a lot of requests from groups that do a lot of things from for people in the town. And so the other theory is that we just rotate them through and some years it's this group's here and some year it's it's that group's here.

Yeah. I mean to be to be honest so like some of them I think are um very very well worth what what they like like Leo um because the number of people in the community they help. Lifeflight that's what I was just going to say. Life I mean Lifeflight is does help some and and it's I know it's expensive to run but um some of these

others might have a bigger impact. So um and Health Equity Alliance is or Oasis free clinic I think is new this year that and that that is in a request. Yeah. Yep. That's a a free medical. Yes. So what? Yeah. Free. So So both are are both Health Equity Alliance and Oasis free clinics kind of on the medical side of things.

Yeah, they're free walking clinics for for low-inccome or or people without health insurance or cost somebody something. Nothing's free. So like Oasis mentions that they served eight patients from Durm in 2016. Where are they even located?

anything on what they've done for uh for service for residents in the town. Um that I can see. or do you want to just say the selectment of support funding five or six of these and let the town's people choose or how do you want to

I have a it it becomes a circus a circus if we say which one I I I think it's better off that we say this this is what we're recommending and these are the people that These are the ones that we're recommending that we that we give to and they have at times said we're

going to cut out $500 because we don't want to support this particular one. And the budget committee has has in many years taken the position that that it should be if people want to give money to these groups, that's their choice to do.

I think I I I think we should still hold the line at um 3,000 again this year. Yep. Um, I am open to suggestions for uh swip switch switching some around if if that if that's a desire. Um, life flight to Oasis, I would say.

Take take Yeah. Take life out. And I I would support continuing community concepts. I I think that they do a tremendous amount of they do. That's who we send people to. So, I would I would agree. I would agree with that one. Take out Lifeflight and do Oasis because um

give them 500 Oasis. Yeah. Yeah. So, Lifellight is gone and 500 to Oasis five and um Whoops, I crossed the wrong one. That's Western Main. Uh flight um personally and keep Western Maine and seniors plus uh seniors plus at 500 though still I think that is not 827.

Yep. 500. So, so we have a thousand too much now. Yeah. So, we have uh Tri County is asking is is asking for 500 which we haven't done. Um I'm not sure. want to swap out for that? Um I I think Andrew Skogan Home and Home Care and Hospice is an e I've been up there before. That's an excellent place and and provides a really good service.

Uh, Community Concepts, I'm not as familiar with. That's where we send everybody who needs help. Okay. Yeah, they they do a tremendous amount. They do all of our our KB cap stuff, too. Oh, not KB um community concepts. Yep.

And uh so you say you keep that one? Yes, I would keep that one. I I I'd keep all of them. I would strike the health equity, which we haven't done yet, and the uh the tri county. I just I just don't see that we should increase it this year. Yep.

Uh Tri County would be the next on my list, I think. But I agree. Okay. So, which ones we got? We got We changed the 820 827 to 500. We took away uh lifelight and added to Oasis and we crossed out alliance. Yeah, health of quality alliance.

So we are suggesting to do Anderson home healthc care and hospice community concepts senior plus western main transportation and lifeflight. Uh was and oasis I'm sorry I mean Oasis not lifellight. Was there one from uh Western Main Transportation? I just wanted to

I don't believe they've gotten it to me. I've talked to them. They've called me, but they hadn't actually gotten me one yet. That might be the That might be the only other one I'd be looking, you know, if we wanted to bring in another one. Maybe maybe them, but I don't

I don't know. I mean, I think that they do service people in the community. I just don't know what their numbers look like. So, for now, I'm good with this. And um however, if they if Western Maine doesn't get their request in before we

before we finalize, I might be interested in looking at relooking. Yep. is there. Yeah. I can't see no increase anywhere. No. No. As a matter of fact, there was a decrease decrease in both. So, what was Yeah, I'm no issues with that one, I don't think, for me.

General assistance, right? General assistance is next. And that's just it is what it is. Yeah. Park and recreation. Parks and Recreation. So, let's see what the And I did get an email from Hunter today asking for $300, but I

think that we can probably just fit that in to um the war memorial park projects. I mean, the project, projects this year, I had put 5340 in that. Most of that is um rolling over about $5,000 from last year into this with the thought that most of that money will be used towards fixing the evil

and and probably uh we're going to have to looking at the flag pole and whatever needs to be done with that. Yeah. Y kind of shocked the people that just on this? Um actually the uh how is our recreation fee uh our recreation thing count looking because I know we've we needed to keep an eye on that because we were using more than

Right. So, what I did this year, there's a state park fee, runaround fee, and the recreation fund. Um, so we we took in um the state park fees. We took in 3233 recreation fund. We took in the 7233. And then you have the option of taking unspent appropriations and putting it back into the fund. And because um we didn't get to do the gazebo last year, I took the 5,500 that was left over and and put it back into recreation fund.

Yeah. So, we have plenty of money. Okay. Yeah. We're we're actually we used we're with what was returned, we're using less than than what went in. So, have the state park fees runaround pond? Have they gone down or something?

It's a percentage of what the state takes in. So you're kind of at the mercy of whatever the state sends you. Planning board and appeals. So there's a so the ordinance review they've they've brought down to 500 and they've put in for the comprehensive plan. So the total increase right now is 2600. Yum.

no they have no plans to hire anybody this year. Yeah. The $500 is for public hearings. Okay. Um there is one tomorrow night, right? There that's the visioning for the comprehensive plan. Comprehensive plan committee and that is part of the budget too.

And that but yeah, I mean it should be a public it's not a public hearing but it's definitely important that people It's at the school. Yes, it's at the school in the cafeteria at 6:30. I'm hoping to be there. Me, too. Um, any changes? I mean, I think

I think that's be what it is. Yeah, the comprehensive plan and this is still uh I mean, I think that we're next year will be the big hit for that probably because I No, I don't think so. I think that this is really kind of a cost that ends up being spread over time.

Okay. Um, so although you know we had talked about a 20,000 $30,000 figure, I think it's like not in one year, right? Well, I I thought may where we're trying to get this done next year and so it's not going to be done by next year.

Okay. It just isn't okay. solid waste. Solid waste. updated ones that include the 2018 19 and 20 budget so that you can see where those are. And then there's another sheet that compares um Ty Waste to Pine Tree and what the budget increases will be um

you know the difference in the budget increase. Put the town aside. Yeah. And I I think that's why I think we put we put out both both contracts um on something like this. the money it is a s it is a significant amount a less amount of money but um I don't I don't feel comfortable recommending that without know I think the town needs to make that decision whether they're willing to take the risk

and I think that there are still at least in my mind and I'm sure someone will correct me [laughter] I [clears throat] feel like there were still some some unanswered questions about TIC as to whether or not it was going to be single sort recycling whether or not it was going to be can

sort of the same level of of convenience that people have gotten used to. Can we get because we actually did ask for something I don't know if you can contact them basically a list of what would be allowable and also to clarify that it would be at our end anyway single source

yeah that it's if they if they have to stop their truck and sort it before they drive into the facility I guess I don't care but I think it was just single sort it was just whatever else you want to pick up but we do need to know understand what types are allowable to make sure that we

Well, I believe that the bid sheet specifies single sort, but I will read it. But I thought there was some discussion and maybe that was pine tree pushing back or I don't there was some discussion about going back to having to take labels off and clean

and and that's I think that that's the big the biggest thing I'm concerned is um we've specified single sort in anything. So, as long as we can put it out in one, but I want to make sure we getting a comparable um you know that we can still put the same same types of items out there. And if not, you know, what what if not, what are the restrictions or what additional things can we put out?

T is I hope. Okay. Yeah, that's recyclable. [laughter] Okay. So, are we done with We're going to have to make a recommendation. What we think? Huh? I think we're going to have to make a recommendation. Yeah. And and I think that can come um unless you want to unless you want to make the recommendation before we meet the budget committee.

No, I think after we meet the budget. Yeah, that's fine then. But I think we'll have to make Yes, we I we need to make I think we put both out, but I think we need to put our put our name on one or the other. And I agree.

Telecommunications. And is this include does this what here is that include the uh stuff that Josh got the quotes on or is that So the bottom line should be 53221. Yes. And that does include Yes. Okay. Awesome. Um what did we bring in last year for franchise fees?

We brought in 40 something,000. Hold on. Let me bring that up. Uh 41 41,615. have 92,000 uh in that line. Okay. So I'm just uh I know some of line 30 that 10,220 line is a single uh for a one time buy that the server is a one time buy. Um I don't remember how much that one how much that was but

is it in the back here? It it should be in there, but with everything included was 57. So 5700 of that is a one time. I'm just thinking that we we don't want to be continuously using more than we bring in. So Right. Well, and some of the website expense, part of that is a one time.

Oh, that's right. That's on there, too. Yeah. So, yeah. Okay. Yes. And that's something we should be prepared to talk about with the budget committee because they're going to see that big jump and and we've already the thing is we've already

contracted contracted in on that. But we we'll tell them that and we'll talk to them about it and really the the website does need an Yeah. So the 6250 includes the $3,000 is just the second payment. the 1750 which is the web hosting and the 1500 in case we need that much in order to um get the fire department into ours.

Okay. one. Um because I I think there's there's there's pretty close to $10,000 that are one-time expenses and that we can get this down. Um good just I put him in his own separate line Okay. tonight? Um before you guys go, just for this, this is what the estimation is of our county budget.

the county. What was almost 8%. Do you remember what the actual percentage increase of the budget was? Cuz I I I I haven't gotten the figures yet. This is okay. From emails with the Is that in this? It's It's not because it's not a part of the budget. Um yeah I though I I do I would like maybe down you know separate from down there the county

Y and how the county will impact you know how much increase because it does all go into no Y absolutely um so we should meet again sometime uh Wednesday or Thursday and we can do the Alba salaries salaries we can meet in executive session uh hopefully we can get um whatever it was we were asking Cal information from Calvin

by then the curtains the curtains yeah and so that we can what day would you like to solidify personally Thursday works best but I don't say Thursday works best okay Thursday six o'clock six o'clock how's that work for you Sarah That's probably fine. It is what it is. I will rearrange whatever.

There we go. Thursday 6 then. Okay. Thursday 6. I'll forget. I'll forget. Groundhog Day. Yeah. Be confused for a second. All right. There's a historic district commission meeting on Thursday. Sorry. Here. Supposed to be here. Yeah. Um,

can what time do they usually meet? 6:30, I think. meet? Well, you know, if we're going to Well, if we're going to do an executive session, we will Yeah, we could meet over there because we're not going to be on camera anyway.

Yeah. Well, I mean, we'll have one one or two items in open and which you could make a minute 6 six o'clock. Yeah, we can do you can center six o'clock. Sounds good. All right. Thank you all. Um motion motion journ.