TranscriptDecember 8, 2020 ~ Select Board Meeting

Goodbye. Thank you. Hey, I will call this meeting of the Durham Board of Selectmen on December 8th, 2020 to order. Um, we are still living in a virtual world, which means we need to do an actual uh roll call of members. uh so that we can confirm that all members can be heard. And as we started a couple weeks ago, if you are speaking, uh we do ask that you turn your camera on. I'm talking to board members. I'm not the public. If you want to turn your camera on, great. If you don't, that's fine, too. Um okay. So, Rob Panto

here. Rich George here. Todd Buller here. Mark Faren here. And I'm Kevin Neetto and I'm here as well. Okay. All five members are here. Um any amendments to the agenda from board members? agenda is um public comment. We have this every week. I am going to uh we'll obviously we'll take public comments here if somebody wants to speak to something. Um but when we get to 4A discussion of the manager hiring process um after the board has had an an initial discussion uh with Mr. Barrett is joining us tonight um I will reopen public comment for anybody that wants to um maybe express any um thoughts based on what they've heard in the discussion that maybe they you know wouldn't have thought of now because we haven't had the discussion yet. So, uh, so just knowing that, uh, is there anybody that has something they want to say in this public comment section? Heather.

Yep. Hollow Road. Um, I'm not sure if the select board has seen that I created like a Durham lights tour um of Christmas lights through town and I made a map and highlighted all the roots that um residents had told me where they were going to decorate. Um, and some people are having a hard time accessing the map for all kinds of different reasons. And I'm wondering if it's okay if I print off the map and bring it to the town office if I can make copies or they can make copies so that people would have that as an option to go there to pick them up.

Anybody have an objection to that? No. And I mean could we also put it on our website as a PDF that might be easier to click on that for the links too? Yeah. Sounds. Is that all right, Ruth? know I mean I'm for that too but I know in the past when we've tried to do some things on the website for other organizations we've kind of stayed away from that because of concerns about it not being a town thing.

Well technically we're probably not supposed to but you know in these times we do whatever we're gonna All right. Well we uh we won't ask for permission we'll ask for forgiveness later. Okay. Yes. Story of my life. fun with that for something.

Thank you. Okay. Yep. Thank you. Is that it? curveball. Um any uh is there anybody else here uh for public comment? in Zoom or you can turn your camera on and wave your hand if you can't find that button. action and discussion item uh 4A. Um

we're pleased to have uh David Barrett from the Maid Municipal Association here with us. He um the person that's going to be assisting us in the process with um recruiting and hiring a new town manager. Um, and so I'd like to introduce David Barrett. David, why don't you um I can't even begin to what your title is. It's a pretty long uh if you want to tell us um your role at MMA and maybe a little bit about um your background with this and you know, we'll just kick off the discussion.

Sure. Um I'll do the shorthand title. I'm the director of personnel services, which encompasses two different things. Um I'm the human resource director for the MMA staff. So we have about 112 employees and the HR department of which there are two and a half people is my uh jurisdiction and we take care of all the internal HR functions, payroll, hiring, employee benefits, you know the whole everything an HR department does but the other half of our work is uh service to

directly to our membership. So, um, we we do a lot of question and answer and training and things like that. In the fee for service world, um, I do these executive searches for town and city manager recruitment processes, but I also represent a whole bunch of communities doing their labor negotiations. So, the town council, the board of selectmen retains me to represent them as they do labor negotiations with their organized employees. So I really have two different universes where I'm working the the in the office and out of the office. Um I've been with Maine Municipal Association since January of 1985. Um been doing these searches the whole

time. Um, we probably do on average, you know, maybe six, eight, ten a year depending uh on demand and and my availability to do them. Uh, so it's something that may municipal association has been doing for a long time. Uh, the last couple years have been very active uh in the this area. Um, not sure quite

why. Part of it is Maine's inherent aging population and so a lot of managers are retiring and and looking to to go somewhere else to spend their retirement years. So that's driven some of it. Um but it's been a pretty challenging last four or five years and and I think some people have have burned out and are moving on to something else. So it's been a bit busy over the last few years, but this is something we do we do quite a bit of. I currently have uh two of these going that are relatively active and one that's almost done. So, it's a good time. I mean, it fits into the schedule really well. Um, you know, as I understand it, um, your town manager authorization comes online sometime in April, I think, is what I recall. So,

that would be our next regular annual town meeting would be the first Saturday in April. Yeah. First Saturday in April. Okay. So, it would be it's good to start, you know, we I think I talked to Kevin and maybe Rob about this at some point. Um, doing this meeting now will get us ready to go and we we should start recruiting January 1 to be ready for you when it's time to to have a candidate for uh to be ready to go after town meeting. That gives us plenty of time after the first of the year to do that. Um, advertising over the holidays is kind of a fool's errand because nobody's paying attention. Um although they might be paying attention more now because they can't go anywhere. But um nonetheless, it's just generally not a great time to be advertising. So the schedule works out really well. So that's kind of an overview of main municipal association and me. Um any questions you want to ask

about that? Um I don't not about that. I do have a a question on the on the schedule that I want to start off with. I believe tonight we will um we need to look at the um I think you'll take us through the proposal briefly. I I imagine we'll go through that. Well, I'll save my question for when we um when we go through that then. So So I think we need to um go through the search proposal. Um the board needs to review the purchase of service agreement um and approve that. Um and then I believe you wanted to jump right in um to some needs assessment conversation.

Yeah. I mean since we're all here I would it would save a meeting. So if you know I'd be happy to go through the proposal. Uh people I encourage questions throughout. I mean this is this is the basic framework but it's your search. So it's it is fine if there are additional steps or other components that you want to incorporate into the search process. That's, you know, that's perfectly fine, too.

Yeah. I'm glad you said that because I think when we were initially communicating to the town about, you know, what we thought this process was going to look like in that first step when we talked about needs assessment. Um, we definitely indicated and communicated that that would be um, a fairly significant opportunity for people to provide input in that needs assessment and and what they thought that um, qualifications and that they thought were important in a town manager and what they would like to see. And um, I think unfortunately, you know, I'll take I I was caught a little bit off guard and that we we only posted this meeting and your appearance here like a day or two ago. So I I think we need um

you know another meeting where we can with more advanced notice let people know say hey this is you know when you have an opportunity to contribute your thoughts to that needs assessment process. I think we can start tonight and maybe you know start to put some um uh you know meat on the bones if you will and have get a start. But I I do think um and I'll be interested to hear what other board members think. I do think since we said we were going to involve the public a lot in the needs assessment phase that we might need to a lot some time you know future meeting to do that.

that as he goes through the um the search proposal. Yeah I mean luckily we have time to do that. I mean, if you have, you know, if the board has has already said that that's something that you want to do, I think it's important that you do that. Um, both just because you said that, but also, you know, it it it helps the credibility of the search and it it may provide you with some insight as to what other people are thinking, and that may inform you about the strength or weaknesses of other candidates. So, I don't have any issue if what we do tonight is simply talk about the process a little bit and get going on that piece and then if you want to figure out when to do the formal actual needs assessment um and schedule that you know either right a right after the first of the year or again the holidays are kind of a mess but maybe the week in between. Yeah, we we do still have one uh uh one

more meeting this month. I believe it's what is it the 22nd? Whatever that that might be pushing it. So, it might it might be better to do it right after the first of the year. Yeah. I mean, I'm going to be out of Well, I'm scheduled to be out of town that week. Now, whether that transpires or not is

right, that's anybody's bet at this point what that looks like. But I I'm totally fine with that if Okay. All right. That's good to know. Okay. Well, let me go through the proposal then. Yep. And please um you know if you have board members if you have questions please do it you know when right when I'm at something so we can talk about it in real time. So the needs assessment is the kickoff meeting which is an opportunity for for you all as a board and then obviously for citizen participation at this point and staff as well to sort of talk out loud about what the what you're looking for what the community needs uh in terms of skill sets in terms of training uh special expertise um you know looking out three to five years what kind of things are happening are going to happen in Durham that this person's going to have to shepherd through and what skills are necessary to make that happen. It it really is an

opportunity to sort of paint a picture of what the community and what the board is looking for in candidates and that's valuable for a variety of reasons. One is it helps the board sort of build consensus on what you as a group are looking for as opposed to each individual select person. Um, it also helps me when I start to put an advertisement together, when I start reviewing resumeumés, which we'll talk about in a second, uh, when I'm putting interview questions together. It really gets information in my hands that I will use throughout the process. So, it it's a fairly important uh, meeting. It also, you know, candidates do call me and say, you know, what's the deal? What what do I need to know? And I need to know something. So, uh, that helps a lot with with that. Once the needs assessment is over, I'll put an advertisement together, uh, and let and let you look at it before it goes out. We will have discussed prior

to that, where you want to advertise and and what choices you have because that has a financial implication. You know, it costs money to do that. Um, and so you need to be in on the decision- making about where you where we place the ads. And I can tell you all of those things as we have that conversation. Once the advertisement goes out, the resume has come to our office. We acknowledge each one of them either with mostly by email now because they almost all of them come by email. So we acknowledge their resume back to them and it'll include a schedule of events so they kind of know when things are going to be happening so that they don't bug the staff. they'll they have a sense of the time frame that the board is working on. Once the resumeé period closes, I mean there'll be a discreet definite date by which time people have to have their materials in our hands. I'll sit down and review

those resumes based on the information I get from the needs assessment meeting and split them up a bit for you. um how how I split them is a is to some extent a function of how many we get. Um, and interestingly enough, um, you know, if we would have been having this conversation a year and a half ago, um, and you asked me how many you might expect, I would have said, you know, given your location and size and demographics and all of that, you know, 30 to 35 would have been, you know, not a number that was unusual. But in the two recruitments that we have done recently sort of postcoid, two towns that are farther north than you are, more rural than you are, um, and smaller than you are, had 45 and 63, respectively. So, there's

something going on out there and I'm not sure what it is. Whether it's people are being displaced from the workforce out not of their own choosing and are looking or they're afraid they're going to be and so they're preemptively looking or they want to come to a place they perceive to be not New York City or Miami, Florida or Phoenix, Arizona. Uh, so I I don't know. I don't know what to tell you about that, but it's that'll be an interesting trend for us to watch, but certainly, you know, 30 to 40 wouldn't have been out of out of the question. Um, even

has the um has the quality of the pool been good. Um, I would say in the group of 63, you know, it was pretty easy to toss 35 of them. you know, they just weren't candidates that had the skill set that that community was looking for. Um, but there were certainly, you know, two dozen credible candidates that uh didn't have everything obviously, but had certain skills and training and ability that would have been interesting uh to look at. So, that gets me back to the original point, which is I'll screen them somehow and get you, you know, get you a a pool of résumés that's been worked over. Now, whether you choose to see all of them, which is certainly fine with me, they'd still come that way. They'd still be, you know, 24 in the top group and 24 in the bottom group or, you know, some some split. And it's certainly you would you would at least know who looked like the strongest candidates and you could spend your

efforts there. But if you wanted to see them all, that's you know that's perfectly fine too. Um, our next meeting after that would be to review to for us to get together in executive session to discuss those candidates and for you to to narrow the field down to the group of folks that you want to invite to Durham well or Zoom probably Zoom um to do first round interviews. Um, I would then contact those people, get them scheduled, get them all set up, and at the same time prepare all the interview materials for you to have, and you would have those in advance of the actual night or nights of interviews and I would be with you for the interviews. We'll meet earlier in the evening before the first candidate shows up and sort of get ourselves organized and, you know, go through the interview process itself and, you know, make sure we're we're equipped to make really good use of our time and to, you know, be productive

while we're while we have those candidates on the computer screen. Once you we do first round interviews, if you have candidates that you want to do second round interviews with, uh, we'll do the same process over again. I will tell you that most of my clients at this point are doing their first round interviews by Zoom, but are figuring out a way to do second round interviews face to face because they don't want to hire somebody they haven't met and the people that are from coming want to see the town and want to, you know, see what they're where they're potentially coming to work and where they might be moving. So we'll have to talk about that when when the time comes. Um also at that stage we would be doing background checks and reference checking and then ultimately help you negotiate the deal. Um so that's the whole process. It's usually, you know, 12 weeks plus or minus, you know, just depending on how

it goes and people's availability and, you know, it's a little actually in some, you know, in some ways Zoom's much harder because it's more challenging to do interviews this way, but it also saves a lot of travel time and logistical issues for setting up meetings. So, it it does move a little faster, believe it or not. But that's that's sort of the the process that's in the outline that I presented the other day. So I'd be happy to answer any questions or hear what you thought your thoughts are.

Any questions, guys? document there's a couple of places where you mentioned you know um the board might want would would want to decide what um the doc says what if any role like the public might play here in terms of you know interviewing or screening. Is there a um I don't know like a recommended format that you know where it's not where we do want to involve the public and have it not be just in the board like where that's proven the most effective and the most valuable in terms of getting input but not being so to the other end of the spectrum to kind of make the process overly cumbersome for the board.

Right. I think I think the the most well I will say first of all I'll say that when I started doing this 20 30 years ago it was really rare that the board included anybody else other than just the board. I mean the boards just did it. That was the way things were done. Now it's pretty rare if they don't. So there has been a real evolution in how boards view these processes and how they envision other people participating. So the most common combination would be what we've already talked about which is at the very front end providing you know a real opportunity for people to uh speak up and participate in discussion per for discussion purposes. And then

the next place for other people to participate is most often when the board has narrowed the field down to finalists. So that people who are asked to participate be they citizens be they staff members be they you know board chairs or the school super whoever it you know whoever it is they're being asked to use their time with candidates that the board is serious with not with this greater pool of people who may or may not be somebody that the board even ever considers again. And so you're really using their time more wisely when you have candidates that the board is seriously considering.

So would that be like you know once the board has gone through like the first round of resume review I guess would be you thinking at that point then the public might be involved in some sort of a screening committee to provide input on who they think should get an interview or I'm not not sure exactly. and following where you think they were.

Normally, it would be at the second interview stage. Second interview stage. So, the board would do the resume review because that's a lot of paper and it's a timeconsuming and then discuss them and work it down to a smaller number. So, typically the board of selectmen would do that. The board would do first round interviews by themselves. But then when you got down to two finalists, we would construct some kind of second interview process that included some of these other people uh so that they could have a chance to meet the finalists, spend a little time with them perhaps, and then provide you their some feedback as to what their impressions of the two final candidates were.

Now, not not everybody does it that way, but I that would be the most common way to if you because if you if you include a whole bunch of people earlier in the process, they're spending their time with candidates that may or may not be of interest. There's a lot more work involved. And so, if you have 15 more people reading resumeumés and doing all that stuff, it it adds significantly to the process. But at at later on, if you have six or seven new faces helping you make the decision, they're only dealing with two or three candidates

and and they actually participate in the second round of interviews like ask questions and things of that sort. They either they either sit with you and do it in the second interview process itself or for example a couple of times I've had a town um give the department heads 45 minutes as a group with the two finalists and just the candidate and so that they get to ask questions without other people being you know they can have a candid conversation with the candidates uh amongst themselves or you you know you take the candidate around and they spend 20 minutes with the public works director at the garage or with the police chief um and then then you know some time sitting with somebody else. So that's that's kind of how you could do it. Okay. Any other board members have thoughts on that in ter the the public input aspect of things?

or a hiring committee or something like that, I think I agree. I think we want to narrow the field down before we bring them in too much. But, um, but I think we should definitely, like you mentioned, sol solicit some input from the public on the characteristics of what they're looking at and so forth. But that that doesn't have to be a formal committee process. I think that's more of a, hey, get us your comments, your thoughts, and and then we'll narrow the field down from there.

Yeah. That's my thought. But question about do you see um do you put this out nationally? Do you see a lot of out ofstate type of candidates for these type of positions or Yeah, we do. That's that was I would say the biggest growth area in those two towns was people from different parts of the country um doing it. I mean we can talk you know we can talk about the advertising more specifically later on but typically what we what we've been doing is almost exclusively electronically because that's how people look for work today. But also newspapers are when you hear the costs of how much it costs to do stuff online versus in the actual newspaper, it's it's a bit startling. So typically, you know, a package would be it goes on the MMA website for free. We have a we have a deal with the New Hampshire municipal I mean the Vermont Municipal League to put it up on their website for free. New Hampshire and Massachusetts municipal

leagues are about 150 bucks to put it up on theirs. The International City Managers Association has a website and a job bank that's na that that's a national thing and it's directed specifically toward people in municipal management. That's about a $450 thing and then the rest is really marginal. uh we've been using live and work in Maine because it's a sort of a different uh place to go and you get some alternative candidates who you know bring kind of different things work-wise but who are really looking to come here and that's important you know and Indeed is for free so that you know all in you're you're at about 800 900 bucks

right that's good um wasn't another zero on that number right you know the main Sunday telegram is a thousand bucks for one Sunday, right? Right. Yeah. So that doubles the cost right out of the gate. You know, if you want to do the is the Times record the sort of paper of

that's about Durham. We really don't have one paper because depending on the part of town you're in. If you're up near Auburn, you might be Lewis and Sun Journal. If you're down towards Freeport, you might be the Portland Press Herald. Um and then a little bit of Times Record, but um yeah, it's kind of all over the place. Probably Sun Journal if I had to pick one. That's about um 400 bucks for a Saturday and a Sunday to together. So that's not as bad.

Yeah. Yeah. Be worth it, you know. So you're So you're anywhere from, you know, 900 to 1300. That's good. Okay. So we because we did budget some funds for that. Um we uh and that that would work within the monies that the town approved for this um for this search. So that's good.

Okay. Yeah. And we can finalize that when we when we talk the next time. But that's kind of what we've been doing. We have really shied away from the big ticket newspapers because we're just not getting you don't get much response and it's really expensive.

Right. I Rich had one. Thanks Kevin. Um I it just and and I'm a little confused on the on I get the process and I I get I obviously get the value. Um I'm a little bit not um not quite catching for example you know you have 50 60 applicants and maybe we'll screen out 30 applicants. I thought the search process was to try to help us narrow this down to, you know, five or six good applicants that were then we could start a committee and actually get to it rather than us doing all the initial screening and so forth.

Well, I'm glad glad you asked that. I mean, my I'm happy to do that. I mean, my my history with my the towns that have done this is that they have wanted me to screen it down to a smaller number, but they didn't want me to screen it down to who I thought you should talk to.

So, that's why, you know, if there were 48 of them, you might get half of them or you might get 20 of them. If you tell me to give you 12, I'll give you 12. I mean, okay, it's sort of a function of how much you want me to do with respect to to narrowing it down. I historically

towns have not wanted me to go all the way to the the smallest number, but so that they have a chance to see some of their choices, see some of the different kinds of candidates that applied to get a sense of what the field really looked like. But that's really your call as a board. And so do they typically pick a a just a set number or do they go maybe off of a percentage base of if there's 50 applicants, the board wants the best 25. How do they typically go in the past?

It just varies. It's kind of a gut thing. I mean, they if they if they give me a specific we want less than half, you know, that's what they get. Um, you know, I I I don't screen down to the bone because I want boards to see their choices, but I also don't want you to spend your time um looking at resumes that that aren't even

Sure. So, like in water, I just did Waterville, they had 70 and this the the search committee got I think just shy of 30. So, 40 something went into the filing cabinet. Okay. Thank you. board will, um, let's see. Do you want to move on to the purchase of service agreement? Is there anything there we need to review in in the meeting as a board? It just kind of it it sort of mirrors the proposal in some respects, but it has some details um about responsibilities and and other things. Um you know, I think for you guys the you know, the obviously the cost is is in there. Um that's the cost. if

the the only extra things would ever be, excuse me, the advertising costs and if you decided to reimburse a candidate for their travel expenses. Yeah. Everything else is in there and that's the price. And so we're not keeping, you know, it's not all of this plus my expenses or anything. It's just

Right. How does the um I didn't see in here like when we pay like do we pay all at once at the beginning at the end in stages? How does that work? All at the end. All at the end. Okay. When the product is done and we pay for all the advertising when we place it and that would just be paid we bill you at the end just like

it would be the whole thing at the end. Okay. Okay. All right. We know where you are. Yeah. And you're a member, so that counts for a lot. Yeah. Okay. Did anybody any board members have any questions on the um purchase of service agreement with MMA?

we uh accept the purchase of service agreement as presented and that the uh board chair be authorized to sign that agreement with municipal association. Any uh discussion on that? I was just trying to I was just trying to find that copy, Kevin. I just wanted to glance at something real quick. But

yep, I can wait. Or do you want me to put it up on the screen? Um, that'd be even fantastic because you know how I am with this town email. It drives me nuts. Yeah. Let me find the uh if I can find the share screen button. Oh, there it is.

That's page one. need two. on the first page. I was I was trying to find something in regards to um you know how many cracks do we get for say um you get to the end you find two three candidates but you can't work out a deal or vice versa they just elect to go somewhere else you got to restart the process over is that how long is this or how many candidates is this good for say

that's a great question David the only time we would the The only time we we really ever charge again is is you really do start over. So, you know, if it's if it's a question of going back into the pool and bringing some more people in, that's part of the process you paid for. Um, but if you know, we really exhaust the whole thing and we we really do a denovo

search, um, I I wouldn't charge you the $6,400 anyway because a lot of the stuff was ready, you know, would have been done and ready to go. So, it would really be more of an hourly rate billing for actual, you know, time I was sitting with you doing interviews or things like that. I wouldn't do the full monty. Okay.

And and just kind of in um the go along with that question because I'm I'm not sure that that we answered this in front of the whole board. Um David, it might have just been you and I and Rob in the email, but the question was asked, well, what happens if we get to that first Saturday in April and we don't have um we haven't successfully hired a candidate yet? And cuz the concern was, well, does that mean that no that come hell or high water that first Saturday, that's when we've made the change or um but correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you answered that. Well, we just continue with the the current structure and arrangement until we actually um have a successful hire.

Is that correct? Yeah, basically. I mean, I haven't I didn't I you know, I had I haven't seen your warrant article or anything, you know, written that that provides me any reason to say something other than what I'm about to say. But, you know, my sense is when towns do this that that date in that date simply is the date where the town is authorized and empowered to have a town manager. You can't do it before that because you're not authorized to do it before that, but you can do it after that. So, you get to that date and you don't have anybody, you you either function the way you you're going now or if you felt like you needed to have an interim town manager, you would be able to do that because you were past the date where you were authorized to have a town manager.

Yeah. I think I I think we're probably uh we got to be fine with, you know, kind of your initial explanation because our Warren article basically was pretty cut and dry asking if the town wanted to adopt the state town manager plan. Um so I think I think we'll be um be good there.

Yeah, that just means that's the date at which you can have one, right? It doesn't mean you have to have one on that date. It just means you're authorized to do so. Great. Okay. All right. I'm going to stop sharing this. Uh, so we're in discussion on the motion to accept the agreement and authorize the board chair to sign it. Any further discussion on that?

please state your vote if you're in um so the motion is if yes is you're in favor of the agreement and having the board chair sign it. So Rob Panto, yes. Rich George, I. Todd Bully, yes. Mark Farren. Yes. And I am a yes as well. Okay.

so as far as next steps, we're are because we're already 45 minutes in. Was there were there any like any lowhanging fruit needs assessment questions, David, that would be really helpful for you to know right now or do you think we'd be okay kind of waiting for that, you know, shortly after the first of the year? Let's just wait. I mean there's a bunch of um sort of demographic stuff that I can get, you know, population, budget size, number of employees, you know, that's just data which I can I can scare up,

you know, be it you or Ruth or somebody. Um it's really the the important stuff is the qualifications and yeah, skills and you know, experience conversation, you know, and there's no reason to have that twice. Let's just do that

one time. So everybody just does it one time. Okay. I have one question for you. Is there anything in particular we should be keeping in mind or asking ourselves because this is an initial town manager search like having never had a town manager before versus replacing an existing town manager.

Yeah. I mean this is this is not dispositive. I mean, this is not a hard and fast rule, but it's generally, you know, if if you've had a town manager for 30 years, um the the town understands what the manager's role is, the board understands what the manager's role is, the staff understands that. So having a candidate

with prior town manager experience in that particular model isn't necessarily as important as it might be the first time out of the gate because you got to have somebody who knows kind of what it's like to have a town manager around

as opposed to somebody who's coming from a you know totally different background. That doesn't mean they can't be successful or they wouldn't be really good at it. But that means 100% of everybody is learning at the same time,

right? As opposed to at least having one person around who, you know, has worked under the manager plan, you know, has a kind of a feel for it. Um, you know, but again, that's not 100% but that that's sort of an initial off the top of my head thought that it's if everybody's kind of making it up as you go along, it's a little harder sometimes to do that. Okay. All right. Any other questions for David? Then I'm going to open back up public comment. Um like I said, I was was going to

that wants to um offer any input so far? Heather? Yep. Go ahead, Heather. Thank you. Hi, Mr. Barrett. Thank you for being here. Thank you. Um I'm wondering if you can explain what the needs assessment looks like. Like are the is the select board going to get um a list of typical things that they're looking that boards would be looking for and like rate them on a scale of importance? Can you explain what that looks like? How they'll be doing that?

Yeah, I mean it's it's generally it's generally done a verbal conversation. So, the board starts talking about Durham and about some of the things that are happening in town now and in the next few years. You know, I'll ask questions as that stuff transpires. Um,

public participation, people chime in. Um, so there isn't, you know, clearly, I mean, it's pretty easy. Some of the things are a given. You know, the person has to be able to to do budgeting and they have to be able to keep on top of the municipal finances so that they can report to the board on a regular basis the town's financial position and the the status. They have to be able to supervise the employees underneath them. They have to uh be able to communicate effectively uh with the board, with the staff and with citizenry. Um they, you know, they have to uh be able to

manage hugely diverse portfolio of projects and things that are going on at the same time. You know, those are all kind of that's what the job entails, but the specifics are what the board and the folks in town need to talk about, which is, you know, what other jobs does this this particular manager hold? Are they the road commissioner? Are they the the

general assistance? You know, what are those things look like? But then beyond that, you know, do you want the manager to do economic development? Is that a big deal or don't you care about that? Is are they the do you have unions and are they the labor negotiator? Are you going to hire somebody else to do that? I mean, those kind of Durham specific tasks which aren't anywhere in the manager plan. They're things that you want your manager to be doing. That's what we need to talk about. So, would we establish a job description prior to Maybe that's actually a question for Kevin. Would you guys like try to put together a job description prior to the needs assessment or would that come after

I'm gonna let David answer that you have one? Well, I take it that you don't have one. Is that not to my knowledge? We are We are at ground zero here. Okay. All right. Um, yeah, you can start doing that. I mean, I can send up a sample one from some other town for you to you don't have to create things out of whole cloth. I mean, there's 200 town managers in Maine and lots of them have job descriptions, so you don't have to, you know, do this from, you know, ground zero. So, I can send that to you and you can start playing with it and and, you know, that can be, you know, part of the needs assessment presentation if you put that on the screen for people to look at and say, you know, here's what we've got so far. What do you think? Um so that people again people would have a starting point of you know understanding that the board already put in all the financial stuff you know that the the budgeting and the finances and the

investments and whatever it is that that's already in there. So that it's stuff that people have particular interests in or or are anticipating happening here in the future that this person's going to have to deal with. Okay. Thank you. I appreciate that. Um my other question is is there any stage in the process that legally anyone other than the board should not participate in?

Well, the board is entitled from from the end of the needs assessment going forward those meetings. the board is entitled to go into executive session because you're either going to be reviewing resumeumés, which are privileged documents, not public documents, or you're going to be interviewing candidates or you're going to be negotiating. So, the board is entitled to be in executive session for all of for the rest of the process basically. But the board can always invite participants to an executive session that are authorized to participate. So for example, if the board invites three people to come in and help them do second interviews, people they would be able to come.

Okay. So like in previous hiring committees that I've been on, we sign something that says that we understand the legality around employment law or names have been redacted, that type of thing from resumes. So there isn't a situation that that would apply here because it's a municipal position that as long as the board has invited that people wouldn't be able to participate,

right? The board would the board is entitled to be in executive session for all of those things. And so the the names of the 48 people that apply would not ever be made public um in any way. But if the board wished to have other people help them do screening at some point or interviews, they could invite those people in to participate with the understanding from those people that they can't disclose any of this stuff either.

Right. Yep. Okay. Um and my first question my the question that I had Rich actually asked about what basically like the expiration date looked like and you've answered that. So um I think that's all I have for now. Thank you.

Thank you. All right. Thank you. And uh Barbara Schneider has her hand up. perhaps when you set the date in January for the needs assessment that the boards that um deal with land use issues are specifically invited. Um I for for the

benefit of Mr. Barrett, I I serve as the chair of the board of appeals. Um and I mean I was prepared to say in my mind I think it's very important that we strongly weight land experience um in this town manager position because of the development pressure I believe we are facing and that the need for us to really have some expertise for ordinance shephering because we don't really have an ordinance review committee anymore as I think I understand. So, but but having some input from both the planning board, the board of appeals, the planner, even to have a separate perhaps workshop on needs assessment around there. Um, so that's all I wanted to offer.

That's great, Bar. I agree wholeheartedly that that's one of the top things on the list. Um I don't know if um it there might be some value in in maybe your boards getting together in developing your point of view on uh needs assessment and then bring that to the larger meeting um just to keep things moving along and then uh keep us from um adding too many extra meetings uh and having our feed. So,

will definitely make sure that when we set that date that we uh proactively notify um probably all all town committees including budget committee and and any others um in addition to planning board and board of appeals. Hold on, Heather. I'm gonna I'll come back to you. So, Barbara, did you have any other questions or suggestions?

Um, no, I don't have anything else. Okay, thank you. Uh, Michelle Richardson was next. Good evening. Uh, Michelle Richardson. I am um I just had a suggestion about this the the plan for the um the committee for the interview process. It's interesting um Mr. Barrett's plan that he laid out is uh a little bit different. My my experience has been on the schoolboard side and a variety of of um hiring committees there. um where we had the public input, you know, whether it be teachers and parents and community members involved on the front end and then sort of that second interview was really um the superintendent and the board chair, the principal um to make the sort of the final recommendation to to the hiring um the hiring body, which seems a little bit um uh flipped from this one, but I think it could it could work either way. I certainly understand. Unfortunately, we're typically not getting 70 applications for for our

administrator roles. So, um I'm a little bit jealous. Uh but um but I definitely think the the idea of having um the hiring committee um you know reflect the variety and diversity across the town, right? So, you know, when we set up these committees, we typically will say we want to make sure we have at least one or two parents, at least one or two teachers, at least, you know, one or two board members to make sure that the um the voices from all the different stakeholder groups are heard. So, I I would recommend um a similar

similar approach for this. I think it could be beneficial to the process. So, thanks. Heather, you had another Did you have a follow-up question? It wasn't a question. I was just coming back around. I think I saw you writing down Kevin when he talked about the job description and I just want to make sure that that doesn't get buried or missed. I think that would be really beneficial for us to be able to see and for you guys to be able to see since we are starting from zero what a job description looks like and then tailor it to Durham's needs from there.

Yeah, I think uh I think Mr. Barrett said he'll he'll send us a few uh samples of a job descriptions. And um I I plan to ask um town staff to create a section on the town website much like we did for most recent election. It might say like town manager search process or something like that. A link to and then as we get documents that are relevant to the search whether it's you know draft job descriptions or the schedule of the process or you know upcoming meetings or whatever it is you know people can go there and have access to um the same public information that we do. Obviously as Mr. Vera said things like resumeumés and names of applicants and things like that are not public information, but anything else I think putting it in a central spot that people can um access would um would help with the whole uh would help people get to the information that they're that they're looking for. So,

thank you. Okay, Barbara, your hand is still up. Did you have a follow-up comment? guess she's done. Anybody else with a um question or comment on this topic? comment period on that. And so as to-dos coming out of this, uh David, I think um for us is to uh set a

date in uh January for the needs assessment meeting and I'll correspond with you offline on that. as far as like dates that work for you and and things of that sort. Um, and then you I don't want to like misquote you, but did you you did indicate that you would forward like some sample job descriptions?

Yeah, I wrote I wrote I made a note so I'll All right. Any other kind of action items coming out of this until we set the date for that January meeting? Um, no. If you just want to sign both of those and email or mail them, either scan them in and mail them up or just mail them up. I'll get Steve Gove to sign them and I'll send you back an original signed

our uh that's Oh, I can I can just email them to you. Yeah, if you can if you have a way to sign them electronically, we can do it the whole thing that way. And but I want you to have a copy and we need a copy. So, yeah. Okay. All right. I'll I'll get that done in the next couple of days. Our town office is closed on Wednesdays, which is why I say it might be

Yeah, there's no urgency about that. Okay. Okay. Well, then if nobody else has any questions or or comments for Mr. Barrett, I think uh I will thank him and and let him go about the rest of his evening. Thank you everybody. Look forward to helping.

All right. Thank you. Thank you. All right. next on the So, let me find my agenda here. Um, budget discussion. Ruth, did you want to um kick this off? I just I really wanted to just ask a couple of questions before we ran the last warrant of the year. um we had allocated money for um the little league and the softball um and the 4 trip and I was actually thinking about it today and um I'm wondering if it makes sense to encumber it for next year um and just pay them next year and not put it in our budget or if you guys want to pay it or if you wanna I you

know I don't know what you guys want to do. Has anyone asked for it? No, I I look at it as as items that were budgeted but not spent. And when you have a budgeted item not spent, it just goes back in into the uh general fund or whatever. I'm designated and and we um it just it gets reauthorized as part of the next year's um budget.

Okay. My would be my take on it. Okay. Anybody else have a a different point of view or something I'm not thinking about? Makes sense to me. So, sorry. Go ahead, Ruth. So, I assume that if they ask me for it though, I should just pay it out.

Well, no, I wouldn't be inclined to say that either. I wouldn't. Yeah, I wouldn't either because I mean what there's there was no baseball, there was no softball, and there was no 4H trip. So, um, so I would say no, we don't.

Yeah, there was no field maintenance done or anything of that nature that took place. Yeah, I would say if THEY HAPPEN TO ASK, SORRY, SOMEONE'S DRIVING IN. between now and then, then tell them to come to our meeting, our next meeting, and we'll discuss it.

Good point. It's a because it's a loud cat you got over there, buddy. I'm just surprised he's got a water bottle. Like I thought that was a cat thing. No, it's a dog thing, too. Oh, it is. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So, and then um and then I was going to do the snowmobile club because you know, snowmobiles go.

They're gonna be grooming trails. So, I think that's I think that's payable. Yeah. Um speaking of uh was that it? Is that all you had, R? that that was really it. So I something came to mind today that in terms of budgeting for next year and

um we can the board we can think about it tonight and maybe take a I don't think we have to actually vote on anything we discussed but as Ruth is building the administration budget for next year um we we need to consider things like um if if uh if Ruth were not hired as town manager and we were going to have a transition. What if any period of overlap would we like to have there? Um and what should we budget in terms of um we've talked about, you know, a severance um for Ruth if if she's not if that town administrator position is um is gone and she's not selected as town manager. What what does the board want to budget for um severance um for Ruth

in in that transition? So those are things we need to include um in the budget uh for next for 2021. So um I would just ask members to kind of be thinking about that and um but we can anybody have any thoughts on that. So because I know Ruth's working on the 2021 administrative budget now so it'll be good for her to know what to build in when we start having um budget meetings.

If people have thoughts, they're ready to share tonight. That's fine. Or we can um uh dis is it too late if we wait till our next December meeting to discuss it, Ruth, or do you need really need to know before that? Um well, so far um sorry. So, so far I

have um I I think I need to cut it down from what David was talking about, but I had 10 10 months of the town manager and four months of me with sort of a transition, but I don't expect that there's going to be a two-month transition. So, I'm thinking maybe um I was thinking that that the person would be hired around the beginning of March, but he's talking about 12 weeks. So, you're probably talking the middle of March more than the beginning of March.

Yeah, I was kind of I my I was thinking of approximately a 30-day overlap, you know, one month overlap. Yeah. And then um I think the I think we we talked before when we were just kind of when we originally had it on the warrant article last April. I think we were doing it for two months of pay and benefits um as a severance package. I think that's is that is that how you remember it as well, Ruth? Is that what you

I don't remember where you got the figure from. It was just a $10,000 round figure. I I That's what I remember. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and if if the board is, you know, if we're if nobody objects to that approach, we just for at least for now have her budget that way. Um, unless, you know, but certainly if anybody has some more specific thoughts on what they think.

a 30-day overlay between the two. Um, that's just my personal preference. I think there's there's definitely value there. Um, as far as the monetary compensation, etc. Um, you know, I if it's a round number like the 10, I'm good with that. Or if it's a an 8w week, seven package, I'm with benefits. I'm I'm also content with that, too. I think um perhaps Ruth could

um shed some light on that, too. I mean, that's I haven't done the math, so um I'll do the math and see what what the eight weeks comes out to. Okay. see which one works better for me. Well, yeah, I know. I mean, that's kind of an atypical approach, but on the same token, we're also looking for someone to help us out in a transition that you know, if if that their job is expiring and you know, it's it's kind of a I think it both parties should at least have some type of mutual agreement. I don't think it should be dictated one way or the other.

Oh, I I agree. Yeah, I think you know I think um I want to say publicly, Ruth, that you have just been outstanding through this whole process and very professional and which I'm which during what I'm no doubt is a very stressful experience. Um and um yeah, so we we

however this works out, we want to make sure that um you are treated properly by the town. So yeah, I would second that. So, okay. Um, all right. Anything else on the budget? No. We may have to encumber the truck, but I'll I'll I'll bring that to you next meeting.

Cloud truck. Yep. Yeah. Okay. Kind of knew that was going to happen. Yeah, that makes sense to encumber something like that because we don't really want to vote on that again. move on to uh department and committee reports. And uh tonight uh the road commissioner is first. Is Calvin with us?

No, he couldn't make it. Rob's got his report. Oh, Rob. We all have his report. What do you mean? I haven't had a chance to look at his report yet. All right, let me pull it up. is um you know obviously they had the first storm. Uh I got it right here in front of me. They still they completed the shoulders in Deerville. They have put up all the winter sand. So we're good there. It's working on the budget. Um the uh taking some training classes through Skill Path via via Zoom. He and Ron are working on their delegation skills. Um and then the big thing that he's that he mentioned to us and we'll have more discussion at the ME next meeting is this co-op that GP COG is trying to pull together um regarding the

um like sharing of of work. This is pretty common. I deal with this on the sewer side. It's called main warn. Basically, if if we need an extra generator, some other town's not using their generator, we can borrow it at a set rate. Um, but it doesn't lock us into anything. There's nothing that says we have to give it up or we have to do this rate. He he he basically negotiated at the time. Um, so that so that's something he's been working on. I think that's good especially with this with COVID and you know especially if we need to share personnel or something like that.

So this is not just a COVID thing. It would be an ongoing thing. I think it would last beyond that. Yeah. And it's pretty common for storm type situations. Um, the only time in 10 years that I've dealt with it in Brunswick was, uh, Freeport Sewer District had a had a big break over by the highway and they had to bypass pump for a few weeks and we had a bypass pump and we sent it down there and they paid us the, you know, prevailing rate for whatever bypass pump was at the time and, you know, worked out well. So,

pretty simple, but it's it's good to have for emergencies. Um, can Ruth, let's put that on the agenda for our next meeting for a as one of the action and discussion items, please. Yeah. Okay. Cal Calvin sent a draft, but he I don't think GP COG has finalized their um the agreement yet. So, there's still a little

We don't have a final thing to vote on anyway. So, yeah, he sent us a draft to look at and then he had a couple comments, but I I don't know if it'll be for the next meeting, but let's put it on the agenda at least for next meeting. Makes sense. Yep.

Yeah. And I think that was all he had. Um they're gonna if weather holds up, they'll continue ditching and until the next storm. Okay. Very good. Okay. Um Chief Moore, you are next, sir. All right. I did send my report this afternoon. Uh came late because I was waiting to see if there was anything really significant to put on it, which there wasn't. Um we're just continuing to manage calls. We're still ahead of last year. Uh the budget is in good shape and I continue to work on crafting that and how that will look for the coming year. Uh and also congratulations to Joe Lamont and Chris Higgins for passing their certification exam. Um I just want to bring that up because that was a lot of work for these guys. This should have been a January to being certified at the beginning of June process and then became a fivemonth layoff and then they could have started all over again. Um or cramm it in in

like two and a half months which they chose to do and get it done with. So um they've really put in a lot of effort and I wanted to recognize that. Great. Uh we have three members that are going to the program starting in January of this year. uh and one person who uh came to my office yesterday who's looking to get into a basic EMT class. So, we continue with recruitment and staff advancement. And that's all I have.

for the chief? Good. Okay. So, I'm just checking my email for something here. Not not related to uh I don't have the amount. So, um, okay. Go back to the agenda here. Town administrator report. Ruth, did you have anything else that we haven't already talked about?

No. No. Okay. Um, and let's see. So, I did want um I'll do that in comments. So, under the consent agenda, um we need to remove 6A because um as we heard earlier today, the the meeting the minutes from that November 24th meeting aren't ready for approvals. So, I'm taking that off the consent agenda. So, we're left with 6B, which is the accounts payable warrant. So, I would entertain a motion on the consent agenda.

Rob moves for approval. Is there a second? A second. Todd second. All right. Your vote when I call your name, please. Rob Panto, I. Rich George, yes. Todd Buller, Mark Farren, yes. And I am a yes. All right. Selectman's comments. Um, I want to uh and I'm sorry I don't have the amount here. They may not know it yet, but I want to recognize the um Durham Boy Scout Troop uh 145, which did their annual bottle drive to support uh the town giving tree. Um they've been working with Becky on that. So, thank you to the Boy Scouts and for their efforts in uh collecting bottles and and doing that um that annual donation that they make. Um and Becky or

Ruth, is there an update on the giving tree? Are we uh are we still do we still have names that need to be or or uh people that need to be bought for or where where are we with that? You go, Becky. I'm loading a video. Um sorry it's so dark. We had two applications. All of them um the tags got checked out. We did hear from someone today that they um will be getting an application to us because we extended till the end of the week. Um, we've had a donation come in and a meeting with the Boy Scouts Thursday to accept their donation. Um, that's about it. It's been really quiet. We've had we had six or eight people come in yesterday alone wanting to donate or take a tag and we just didn't have the tags to give because they were checked out.

So, in years past, were most of the tags from Lisbon or we just or because we don't have that organization, we're not getting the tags funneled to us? Um, I I'm not sure. I know Lisbon gave them to us, but I don't know if they were specifically to Durham or um if it was sort of in the community. Um, you know, it wasn't Ruth, do you know?

I think it's a little bit of both, frankly. I I think that yes, there were some Lisbon tags included, but for some reason this year, um, Lisbon has the same issue. The the people aren't coming forward for whatever reason. Rich,

just out of curiosity, but have have we contacted the school andor the the PTA and asked them to make a couple announcements and put it in their literature that goes on weekly? Well, I did contact the school and I brought applications up and put it on the uh bulletin board there. Um, applications are over at GetingGo and I called a couple of the local churches and asked them to announce it as well.

Fair enough. Okay. All right. Okay. So, um our next meeting will be uh Tuesday, December 22nd at 6:30 p.m. and then we're not scheduled to meet until Tuesday, January 12th. Um it's possible we might have that needs assessment scheduled uh before then, but I'll I'll get with Mr. Barrett and um

we'll try to set a date for that. We'll it'll we'll pro we'll try to stick to the you know a Tuesday evening or you know some other weekn night evening and um as we have a couple of options I'll I'll send out the options to people for uh for feedback.

take a motion to adjurnn. So moved. Rich moves adjournment. Anybody want to second that? Rob. All right. If you're in favor or or actually state your vote when I call your name. Rob Ponto, yes. Rich George, I. Todd Buller,

yep. Mark Farren, hi. And I'm a yes as well. Thank you everybody.