Union Church Committee Meeting ~ July 18, 2023

2023-07-18 · Union Church Committee · 1:28:09 · watch on YouTube →

The first meeting of the Union Church committee, a body the town voted to create in 2021 and which only got going now. Town manager Jerry opened it, explained the committee's charge from the select board (identify long-term uses for the property and how the town benefits, establish what restoration is needed to bring the building to code, and bring a proposal back) and handed over once officers were chosen. The committee adopted bylaws drafted by Neil Berry, amended to use Robert's Rules as a guide rather than a governing authority and to let an alternate vote when a quorum of five is not present. Lois Kilby-Chesley then laid out what is known about the building's condition: a contractor's estimate of roughly $50,000 for sill work against about $31,000 available, no footers under the 2019 rear foundation work the town paid $18,000 for, and an estimate that the foundation has four or five years before it collapses. Members agreed to circulate the 2015 Maine Preservation assessment, to hear a history of the church at the next meeting, and to ask MDOT whether access onto Route 136 is acceptable.

No written minutes could be matched to this meeting. The transcript records that the speaker changed but never who was speaking, so any name attached to a statement below is inferred from context and is marked (?).

What was discussed

1. 0:08
   Purpose of the meeting

   Town manager Jerry (?) noted the committee was voted into existence in 2021 and is only now being stood up in 2023. He said tonight's job was to establish the committee and choose a chair, vice chair and secretary rather than to decide anything about the building, and thanked members for stepping up. All members were present except one alternate.

2. 0:08
   Introductions

   Neil Berry, retired, nearly 40 years in Durham, said his only agenda is keeping taxes down. Lois Kilby-Chesley chairs the historic district commission, sits on the Historical Society and is one of the Friends of the Western Methodist Church renovating that building on Runaround Pond Road, having taught in the school district for 33 years. John Talbot chairs the planning board and sits on the budget committee, and Tia Wilson, chair of the Historical Society and of the cemetery committee, said she had to leave Durham two years ago because she could not find a house she could afford.

3. 5:36
   Introductions continued

   Paula Erdman (?) described family roots on an old farm on Hallowell Road and long membership of the Historical Society. Bill Schneider gave a career of soldier, mechanical engineer, then lawyer, including service in the legislature and as attorney general for the state of Maine. Tyler Hutchinson, an electrical engineer and planning board member, and Emily Alexander, who is on the historic commission and the Historical Society, both cited an interest in old buildings.

4. 5:36
   Nominations for chair

   Bill Schneider was nominated, and then Lois Kilby-Chesley was nominated and seconded on the strength of her experience with the historical societies. The idea of co-chairs was raised and dismissed as making things too complicated.

5. 11:14
   What kind of committee this is

   Jerry (?) described it as an ad hoc rather than a standing committee, likely to dissolve not long after its report goes to the select board, and said how formal the bylaws should be was up to the members. Members recalled the select board's expectation of a report by December, with a public debate after the report and before town meeting at which the committee would probably need to be present.

6. 11:14
   Candidate statements

   Bill Schneider (?) said he is trained as a leader, is the town meeting moderator, and comes to this with a completely open mind; he proposed the committee start with a briefing on the church's history, a visit to look at the building, and a review of the budget estimates before reaching any conclusion. Lois Kilby-Chesley (?) described her family settling in Durham in 1789, her preservation work and grant writing on the Western Methodist Church, which the town transferred at the end of 2019 and where windows are being restored two at a time, and said she and Jerry had already had a contractor look at the Union Church for a ballpark figure.

7. 17:07
   Are the candidates open to moving it?

   Both candidates were asked whether they were open to options other than repairing the building where it stands (moving it, or something else) given that costs will drive the answer. Kilby-Chesley (?) said she has real concerns about where it is and that if the committee's consensus is something other than renovating in place, that is what the report will say.

8. 17:07
   Election of officers

   With two nominations for chair, the committee agreed to decide it by written ballot. A vice chair was then nominated and seconded, and Tyler Hutchinson (?) volunteered as secretary when nobody else came forward.

9. 22:40
   The committee's charge

   The new chair read the charge from the select board: identify long-term uses for the property and how the town will benefit, establish what restoration is required to bring the building to code, and present a proposal to the select board on how those goals will be accomplished. Members noted that because the building is on the National Register, the Department of the Interior standards are worth working to if the town wants to keep the designation.

10. 22:40
    Bylaws and Robert's Rules

    The committee read Neil Berry's draft bylaws. The chair proposed changing Robert's Rules from something that shall govern to something that shall guide, so small deviations are possible. Members noted the planning board does not use Robert's Rules and the budget committee does, and settled on adopting them as a flexible guide so the committee can talk as a committee of the whole.

11. 28:32
    Quorum and alternates

    Two amendments were worked out: a quorum consists of five voting members, and where no quorum exists an alternate may vote. Members agreed the voting alternate should be chosen by a vote of the committee and rotated between the alternates so each gets a turn.

12. 28:32
    The contractor's look at the sills

    Lois Kilby-Chesley (?) reported that she and Jerry had asked Craig, of a house-lifting firm, to look at the sills, since that is what the money in the restoration account could cover. He was not pleasantly surprised: in places a stick can be pushed straight through the sill into the crawl space. He suggested taking out the most rotten pieces rather than lifting the whole building, and Kilby-Chesley (?) urged getting further opinions from people who have done historic renovation rather than any licensed builder.

13. 33:38
    The 2019 rear foundation work

    There are no footers under the basement replaced in 2019, for which the town paid $18,000. Hollow cement blocks were set directly on the dirt, and the weight is pressing them into the ground; at the Western Methodist Church, granite was laid as a footer and the blocks set on that, work that took all summer for one side. The rear corner posts are also rotten, so the estimate breaks down to about $50,000 against roughly $31,000 available: $21,000 in the account plus $10,000 approved at town meeting.

14. 38:52
    Whether to look back at the 2019 bids

    A member suggested reviewing the town's procurement policy and the other bids submitted for that work, to see whether the contractor chosen was the best qualified, whether any of the other bids included footers, and whether the contractor could be held accountable for omitting them under a historic building. She recalled at least three bids. Others were wary of chasing contractors but agreed it warranted a look.

15. 38:52
    Who would manage the work

    Members agreed it would not be this committee's job to manage a contract; its role is to produce a road map, and the historic district commission might be the body deputised by the town to carry the work out. The Craig estimate was described as a starting point only, since a proper RFP would be needed, and members noted the total is climbing: one running tally reached $76,000 before the exterior was even finished.

16. 38:52
    The 2015 Maine Preservation assessment

    Maine Preservation, a private company, assessed the building in 2015 with descriptions and photographs, paid for by the Historical Society, and did a follow-up in 2017. They also keep a list of contractors experienced in historic work. Jerry has digital copies to circulate, and Maine Preservation has said it would be happy to look at the Union Church again.

17. 44:04
    Next meeting's agenda

    The chair proposed a background briefing on the history of the church at the next meeting, split into the general history and the history of keeping it repaired and usable. Lois Kilby-Chesley (?) said she already has it. A member argued the committee also needs to turn to what the town actually wants to do with the building, since the intended use determines the cost.

18. 44:04
    The existing agreement with the Historical Society

    Kilby-Chesley circulated two town meeting records, one from the 1980s and one from 1998, under which the town turned responsibility for the operation of the Union Church and the Old Town Hall over to the Durham Historical Society. Members took the view that an agreement more than 30 years old, made at town meeting, would need another town meeting vote to undo rather than a select board decision. The chair's reading of the select board's guidance was that the town should vote first on what to do with the building, with a realistic cost attached to each option.

19. 49:24
    Whether the building could be moved

    An estimate to move the building had been obtained some years ago. Members disagreed on whether it could keep its National Register listing if moved: one said the Maine Historic Preservation Commission had given the impression it could, another that her research suggested otherwise. A member argued a landmark marks a place, so once you pick it up it is a moved church rather than a landmark, and the building has stood there since 1835.

20. 49:24
    Parking and access on Route 136

    A member raised whether the parking area is safe for a building meant to draw the public. Calvin, who had joined the site visit, said cutting back some trees and brush on the Auburn side would greatly improve sight lines, and would not be a problem except where it means the neighbour's trees, which would need permission. Kilby-Chesley recalled monthly open houses about eight years ago (quilt shows, art shows, bake sales, taking around $250 each time) with no parking or access problems.

21. 54:37
    The buffer requirement and asking MDOT

    The ordinance requires a 25-foot vegetative buffer between a historic property and its neighbour, and George reads that as an obligation on the abutting owner or new development rather than on the historic property itself. On access, members agreed the road is MDOT's, so the committee should ask the state in writing whether entering and leaving onto Route 136 is acceptable and get that answer up front. Members also raised accessibility, bathroom facilities and the absence of heat as costs tied to whatever use is chosen.

22. 59:39
    What counts as a benefit to the town

    A member noted the charge asks how the town will benefit, and that he had been reading benefit as income when it need not be: somewhere for schoolchildren to study Maine history is a benefit too. Selling to a private organisation was raised as an option the committee could put forward. Kilby-Chesley (?) described the Western Methodist Church arrangement as a precedent: the select board conveyed it to the Friends for a dollar, conditional on a grant being secured first, it cannot be sold on, and if the Friends give it up it reverts to the Historical Society.

23. 59:39
    An option nobody had named

    The chair observed he had heard move it and heard leave it alone, but nobody had yet said turn it over to the Historical Society, which already holds responsibility for its operation. He suggested a future session to put every possible outcome on a board and work through them with an open mind.

24. 59:39
    The money and the capital process

    Jerry (?) explained the restoration fund holds $21,457, and that the additional $10,000 approved at town meeting went into operational funds and returns to undesignated funds on December 31 if it is not spent. The capital improvement process starts in September this year, a month early, and any money for the building will need a CIP application like a department's, reviewed by the select board with decisions around December. Anything the committee wants spent needs select board approval because it is a town building.

25. 1:04:56
    A two-year process

    Members reported the select board did not expect a funding vote in April 2024 (it wanted the town to vote first on what to do with the building, informed by what that would cost) and saw this as a two-year process. Heather Roy (?) confirmed CIP numbers have to be in by September. A suggestion was floated of paying the $10,000 as a deposit to a contractor before the year end so the money is not lost even if the work starts later, a technique used with grant deadlines elsewhere.

26. 1:10:13
    History of the restoration fund

    The Historical Society has not been able to spend the fund because it is a town building; for years someone would ask for $10,000 at town meeting and at one point the balance reached $60,000 or $70,000. A request from the commission for $10,000 last year was submitted before November but never made it past a page of the budget request to the budget committee. Members argued that deferring the work turns $31,000 into $51,000 and then $110,000.

27. 1:15:37
    Insurance and how long the building has

    Members asked whether an adjuster could look at it, and noted the town's insurance is through the Maine Municipal Association with the usual distinction between maintenance and an act of God. One member said $50,000 is a low-ball because it covers sill replacement only, not removing siding or repairing interior plaster once the building is jacked up. Craig's view was that the building has perhaps four to five years before the foundation collapses, and that the repairs made in 2019 were never meant to be long-term.

28. 1:20:43
    Timing, an RFP and the house movers

    Members questioned whether an RFP for the sill work could realistically go out and the work be done before December 31, with three bids legally required and only four months left. A member offered to approach the house-moving firm about what they would charge to raise the building, on the view that once it is up the sill replacement is the easy part. The alternative floated was to accept losing this year's $10,000 and ask again next year.

29. 1:20:43
    Next meeting and adjournment

    The committee settled on Thursdays, avoiding the second Thursday when the historic district commission meets, so the third Thursday at six o'clock, possibly meeting at the church itself. Documents discussed and the minutes will go out through the secretary, and members were asked to send anything useful to him. A motion to adjourn was made and seconded.

What was decided

• 17:07
  Election of a chair between two nominees, Bill Schneider and Lois Kilby-Chesley, taken by written ballot. The recording does not state the result, though the new chair takes over the meeting immediately afterwards.outcome unclear
• 17:07
  A vice chair was nominated and seconded. Neither the name nor the result is audible on the recording.outcome unclear
• 17:07
  Tyler Hutchinson (?) volunteered as secretary with no other candidate. The result is not stated on the recording, but the rest of the meeting treats him as secretary, with documents and minutes to go out through him.passed
• 28:32
  Adopt the committee's bylaws as amended: Robert's Rules of Order to guide rather than govern the committee, a quorum of five voting members, and where no quorum exists an alternate may vote, the alternate to be selected by a vote of the committee and rotated between meetings. Moved and seconded; the chair declared it unanimous.passed
• 38:52
  Agreed to circulate the 2015 Maine Preservation assessment of the building and its 2017 follow-up, together with Maine Preservation's list of contractors experienced in historic work, which the town manager holds in digital form.passed
• 44:04
  Agreed that the next meeting's agenda would include a background briefing on the church, split between the general history of the building and the history of keeping it repaired and usable, with Lois Kilby-Chesley to give it.passed
• 54:37
  Agreed to approach the Maine Department of Transportation, in writing, for confirmation of whether access on and off Route 136 at the church is acceptable, since the road is the state's rather than the town's.passed
• 1:20:43
  Set the committee's meeting slot as the third Thursday of the month at six o'clock, avoiding the second Thursday when the historic district commission meets, with the next meeting possibly held at the church itself.passed
• 1:26:01
  Motion to adjourn, moved and seconded. The recording ends as the vote is being called and does not carry the result.outcome unclear

An outcome reads "unclear" where the recording does not state it plainly. The recogniser drops short words, and "the motion does not carry" is one missing word from its opposite.

Worth knowing

• 33:38
  There are no footers under the rear foundation the town paid $18,000 to have replaced in 2019. Hollow cement blocks were set straight on the dirt and the weight of the building is pushing them into the ground; a member asked whether the town's procurement policy and the other bids from that job should be revisited.
• 38:52
  The contractor's ballpark for the sills alone is about $50,000, against roughly $31,000 available. One member totting up everything identified in the estimate reached $76,000 before the exterior was finished, and the estimate itself notes the studs have not been assessed.
• 59:39
  The restoration account holds $21,457. The extra $10,000 approved at town meeting sits in operational funds and reverts to undesignated funds on December 31 if it is not spent, and any further money has to go through the capital improvement process, whose applications are due in September.
• 1:15:37
  The contractor who looked at the building estimated it has perhaps four to five years before the foundation collapses, and said the repairs made in 2019 were never meant to be long-term.

Motion language found in the transcript

Located by pattern matching, with no model involved: "I move that", "I'll second", "all those in favour". This is an independent check on the summary above: 2 passages of motion language, against 9 decisions summarised.

Elsewhere

2023-08-03 Union Church Committee →All meetings