TranscriptMarch 23, 2021 ~ Select Board Meeting

You're all set. You're all set. Sorry. It's okay. So, I gotta have my queue. I won't know when to start, right? All right. I'll call this meeting of the Durham Board of Selectment to order on March 23rd, 2021. We're still living in COVID world, so we're still meeting virtually via Zoom. And just to confirm that all board members uh can be heard when I call your name, just please say something to acknowledge that. Todd Bullier,

yep. Rob Panto, yes. Mark Faren, here. And Rich George, you're muted, Rich. Okay, great. All board members are present and we will move on. Uh any amendments to the agenda from board members? was Yeah, I have that. So that's 4G is going to be Adam Chamberlain's Eagle Scout project. Any others?

here uh for public comment? Doesn't look like it. Everybody is either a board member or or town staff. Rich, did you have something? Okay. Um to action and discussion items. The uh 4A is a proposed ordinance change to the um road weight limit. It's actually

adding more roads to the ordinance. It's not changing the uh actual weight limit. U Calvin, anything you want to mention on this? And you're muted, sir. board uh with the just some housekeeping changes and um the section six um adds a

penalty. The attorney wanted us to actually specify the penalty dollar amount and said that the the that it could be uh graduated. So I put $250 for the statute says it cannot be less than $250. Uh so that obviously has to be the first offense. And then um he said it could be a graduated process. So it could get more expensive if there are subsequent events. So I I I added a line if the board wanted to add an increase on a on further offenses. So that uh that change and we just uh uh added

uh uh three roads and changed the starting point on Old Brunswick Road. to the intersection of plumber mill road. I sent you a copy of uh the attorney's recommendation that it was just uh all looked good to him and looked like it was just housekeeping issues.

Anybody have any questions for Calvin? Mark. we write or have a year for violations? We haven't written any. Uh this year is the closest I've gotten. Uh sheriff actually called the people and told them called me back and asked me what I wanted to do and we agreed that he would just give them a very stern warning and not to happen again. But uh seems to be pushed a little more this year than most for some reason. But uh to date there have been none. But once the ordinance is um established, um the sheriff seems to be willing to go ahead and sheriff's department seems to be more than willing to go ahead and track them down if they get called. So,

okay, good. Thanks, Calvin. Why did we start the uh why did we change the start spot of uh Old Brunswick Road? Well, there are a couple of u uh businesses up on that road and that end of the road. Uh, one one is just starting up uh at uh uh just this side

of bought that commercial building and that's not the section of that road that I'm worried about. That's all sand through there. It's the further end when you get down beyond the dump or toward the dump is where it um the old where it really starts to had a

much less structure. Yeah. One one other reason, Todd, as I worked with Calvin on this is that the ordinance allows like when someone lives on that road or their place of business is on that road, then they can obviously travel it.

Yeah. But like someone on that end of Plumber Mill Road can't technically travel on two posted roads to get to home. So it kind of it like there's a business on one side of Plumber Mill. would force them to go out to Dead Man's Curve every time, which just isn't safe, you know, or not the safest route. So, the we figured the quicker we can get them to 136 and the state roads, the better off we are because the spirit of the

of the ordinance is to reduce their traveling on the road. So, it makes no sense to send them all the way down Plumber Mill, which is posted. So, and just to be clear, this is this is just for the year round posting the spring posting for um Thor and Freeze and it's not the it's not the annual uh spring posting that they would not be exempt from that.

That that actually that I'm glad that was my question is because the way the there's nothing in the ordinance about that seasonal because it said like uh section 35 exempts vehicles providing services to properties on the road. So, how so does the seasonal posting somehow

take precedence over this ordinance? Yeah, the works. Yeah, the seasonal posting is a state statute. Um, but all towns use and so that's that's that's different animals than than than this here. Okay. All right. Thank you. That that that answers that. And uh you answered my other question. I was wondering how does somebody even get cited for an offense? and you answered that one. But the one thing I it it mentions several times in there about um where a permit

might be needed to be issued by the municipal officers. And I I don't recall ever being asked to do any sort of permit. So I'm wondering is that really relevant? And even if it is, should it be a board of selectman or should it actually be the town manager with a town manager coming on board?

So, an example of this would be like up in western Maine when they were building all these wind towers. Um, a lot of towns didn't want those towers being hauled down their roads. They would have to get a permit, put up a bond from the town, and the select would issue the permit. So, if you had a massive job going on where they were going to build some something bigger than we've ever seen or you know that that the town may take a position that they don't want that on their road and may require a a a bond and a permit from the select board.

Yeah. For instance, when the uh power company comes down through and and tears up Stackpole Road, right? That would be another example. when the MP was going on, they had to get permits from towns and Yeah. And they'll do it again.

If we don't stop them, they're going to do it again, right? So, so we could probably use a bond on that. Yeah. So, that gives you that authority to do that in those in those rare instances. Okay. And do we put up permanent signage going forward? Is that what how you do this going since it's a permanent

thing? Yeah, they has to be posted. Yep. All right. So it' be more permanent than the orange signs that we have up now, right? Yeah, those are just temporary. So currently we have permanent signs on Old Brunswick Road, um Shiloh Road and uh Lakeland, they have permanent signs.

Is there any what is there any uh kind of like proactive communication plan? Like should we be thinking about sending some sort of a written notification to like all the gravel pits in town or is there some state, you know, transportation, you know, group that we should notifi, you know, that would take notifications like this that just to alert people as they're coming through town because, you know, I mean, everybody's you can drive by a sign 20 times before you even notice that it's there. Yeah, I could I could notify the the gravel pits and they could send out a flyer to all their they could hand the flyer out to all their trucks or send it to their vendors.

Okay, Rich Rich had a comment or question. Yeah, just two questions if I could. Um the the offspr like plumber mill is one of them and maybe Sand Hill off of Brunswick Road for example. It's implied, right, that those those residents, those quote unquote foregoing roads or whatever that th they could have like if they were somebody bought a lot on Sand Hill and they needed excavation equipment, dump trucks, cement trucks, etc. Is that automatically implied or would they be subject to an a permit?

No, that's that's in the ordinance. It says uh one of the exemptions is that uh services being rendered to a homeowner or land owner on the road. Uh yeah, but I'm talking about roads that not specifically called out like Sand Hill Road off of uh Old Brunswick Road is what coming to mind.

Yeah. So those are not posted. Those wouldn't be posted. But you got to get there. That's what I'm asking. If Old Brunswick is posted, they would still have to get there. Yes. And um there is also uh I could contact um the trucking companies, Google or one of those. Uh they have software in the trailer trucks and the big trucks. I mean, one of truck was using Old Brunswick Road the other day. They had to call up the headquarters in Hampton and and track that down and get that to stop. But um

I'm just asking if it's implied if that because they're on a branch of that road, does are they under the same structure as the actual residence of the primary road? I don't know if I'm wording it correctly. So you want to know if they would be allowed to bring a truck if they had a place of business if they could get

they have the same leniency for lack of better words than somebody on the primary road people that are on the branch road whether it's Ross Road on Old Brunswick Sansville Road Wires Hill your question in 35 it says vehicles providing services to properties located on any of the fourgoing roads. So I think that I was that's why I said foregoing. Is that what that means? Does that imply other roads?

That's how I would take it to mean. it's not a state trooper or sheriff's office that says this individual or sees this individual breaking this ordinance and it's perhaps you, does that mean every time we enforce this that you're going to have to go to court? I don't think so. I think the sheriff would just show up and ask for a written statement and they would take it uh would be my I that's as far as I know. I mean, unless a judge wants um witness to be there, I'm I'm not sure. I I don't think it's something that we're going to be dealing with all that often, but hopefully

I would say it's entirely possible that they would want you there or a witness there. could happen. You know how it goes. If if you get a traffic ticket and the cop doesn't show up for work, you get out of it. You know what I mean? It's just I would think this the same rule of principle would apply with a judge. If the person that actually witnessed the event wasn't there, oh well. Um, and if you're saying it's not an occurrence, then I don't know why we're doing this.

Well, I think once it wouldn't be a common occurrence, I think Oh, you think once so it's a common occurrence now? Okay. All right. Yeah. Any other questions? for us to approve the ordinance if if that's what we want to do um as edited by Calvin. And then we have to schedule a public hearing that we'll just make part of a regular selecting meeting. But that has to be posted um at least seven days in advance. So we could post um uh

post notice sometime in the next, you know, within the next week to have the hearing at our next um our next regular meeting. Is everybody comfortable with that? We ready to move forward or do we have more work to do? I I just out of curiosity, I don't um Kevin, you always know the typically, right? Would would we approve an ordinance before a public hearing? Because wouldn't we approve it? Then it's kind of set in stone.

No, we're well, I should say approve the language. Approve the language. Okay. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. Approve the language and then because that's what we'll present at the p for the public hearing. I got you. And then then that um then this is one of those cases where it's just this board that votes whether to change the ordinance or not. But we still have to do the public hearing part by

I have no issue with the language. What's that? I don't have any issue with the language. So, it looks copathetic to me if we want to vote on it. Well, I'm going to move that we uh accept the language of the town of Durham ordinance restricting vehicle weight on posted ways as edited by Calvin. I'd second it for discussion and to start the discussion.

Okay, discussion. Calvin still had the question about the fines. Fine. Yeah, that was going to be my second. I would say that's why I said it that way. Yeah, I would say just make every fine 250. That see I was going to say the second fine you get 500. I was going to double it.

Yeah, I'm fine with that, too. I just Whatever Whatever you guys think. Sometimes I think if you're offender, for lack of better words, you should get popped a little harder the second time or third time around. Yeah. All right. So, I'm going to amend my motion um to uh approve the ordinance, the language of the ordinance as presented and with in section six penalties

uh for the $500 fine for each subsequent offense after the first one. Second. Okay, Rob seconds that. Any further discussion on that? Uh, state your vote. Want to call your name, please? Todd Bolier, yep. Rob Panto, yes.

Mark Faren, yes. Rich George, yes. And I am a yes. All right. So, um, Ruth, can you do the necessary public hearing notice for our next regular, uh, select board meeting? Yes. Great. Thank you. And Calvin, can you notify the gravel pits that we are having that public hearing?

Yep. Yeah, that's a good call. Yep. Gravel pits and any other big, you know, big equipment business around that you can think of. Yeah, I can think of one. Got one of those, Todd? MCW. continuing with the Calvin show, uh, paving requests, uh, for proposal results.

states, uh, was lowest. Uh, Kirk was second. Um, we've reviewed the bids. Every everybody had the proper u bonds and proper uh submissions. Everybody was in by the deadline. Everybody met all the bid requirements. in a while, isn't it?

Yeah. More than I expected. So we um you know, I've familiar with Krooker. we've had a good working relationship. Um U u sometimes that's worth something knowing what you're getting and but at the end of the day the lowest price was uh was all states and I've given that some thought and I I you know I I'm willing to work with it either way.

Are are we committing to three years with the same company with this? Yep. We are. It was a three-year bid. Yeah. That's what we did last time with Crooker was it started with a three-year bid and then we just extended. Okay. Rich, did you have a question?

Yeah, I just um and I'm I'm reading this and I don't know if it needs but with All State I know the specs are the specs and stuff like that, but this implies hot top. We're not looking at cold top with the layover and all that whatever that stuff we used to use on Cedar Pond, etc. This is the actual real deal hot top. Um, not the cold mix with the sprinkle of gravel over it.

No, this was all Everybody's apples for apples specwise was all hot mix. Yep. Okay. Thanks. uh the other company before. I've worked with All States before and I just found them to be a little less flexible. Uh, basically if we said we were a little behind on ditching and we needed another week, it was not going to happen. And with Krooker, I was able to say, you know, I'm able to work with him. I can call them and say, you know, I need another week or I need a few days here and they'll say, well, we'll go there and we'll come back. Um, so there's probably in that lower price there's some uh less flexibility probably due to the price.

Over three years. $16,000 a year. Yeah. Y Rob, anything jump out of you in the bids. Uh nothing in the bid per se. Um you know, all states they they've paved for us in the past as you know and uh you know, I think they can they can do the job. I am a little concerned they've had I mean I know some people that have worked there and and they do have uh a higher employee turnover and and the company's a little more volatile I guess but you know they're aggressive on their pricing which is a good thing for towns. Um you know I'm obviously biased having worked at Krooker in the past so you know I got to put that out there on the table but I also know what they're capable of. So, um, you know, I'm kind of with Calvin in this one. I mean, I'm my preference would be and I think the value, you know, it's a good point that it's $48,000, but $16,000 a year. I definitely think there's some value with

with what Calvin deals with and and how we work with Krooker. And I I think we get a lot of incidentals that aren't always included. Um, you know, just because they are a relatively local company and we have a good history with them. So, so there's definitely value and I think we could easily justify going with that bid. That said, u you know, if we don't accept all states bids, if I was on their side, I I probably wouldn't bid again in the future, you know. Um,

but three years is a long time, so they may decide to bid again in three years. If we didn't choose them, it's hard to tell at this point. Um, but both companies had plenty of paving experience for sure. Oh, the the only other thing was the distance in trucking. And Calvin and I talked about this is as you know, hot talk compaction is about 100% of of uh the integrity of

the paving comes into compaction and you need heat to compact it. You know, Kirker's in Topppsum uh All States is in Richmond. you know, if they have heated bodies, it's probably fine, but I have run into that with uh paving companies before, not necessarily all states where where they're not where the material isn't being delivered hot enough and we're not able to get the compaction. Um, so we may get a little bit longer season with Krooker, but again, both companies would be fine.

Well, now that you mentioned that, Rob, All States does close a lot earlier than Krooker's the last one open in the year. So, I know that's it it it gets to be problematic sometimes for us because they're the only one open and everybody gets in line and we have to wait a little longer for the trucks. But, so they are open longer. It does extend the paving season.

Rich, we didn't do any maintenance paving last year, correct? Yep, we did. We did do some maintenance paving. We did half I'm sorry. That's right. Half of the maintenance paving last year. But did we only do half of the ditching? So, a lot of these roads might be all ready to roll, right? So, the ditching they they could just go right at it.

Well, we've got we what we did is we we chose roads that needed a lot of construction work. They were they they were, you know, sections were really bad and other parts were fine. And so we took those roads purposely where we were cutting the budget in half and and um we went in there with the town crew and cut box cut those areas and did a lot of construction prep work um so that uh we

would be paving only half the the distance but we were getting a lot of uh work done. So we did get ahead on a couple of roads. We do have a couple of roads that we're ahead on. We've got um Beaverwood's almost done and so it'll it'll be uh I think I think we'll be uh able to stay ahead of them.

Okay. That that was really the principle of my question. Do we have roads that are that we basically got done last year that are ready to go go right now simply because we cut the paving last year? That's all. Yeah. Um, I I think what I'm hung up on is the

three-year commitment if we try something new. Um, I would I'd be much more inclined to go with the All State bid if, for instance, we could see how it goes for the uh for a year and if we're happy with it, we keep going, but if we're not happy with it, we make a change. what what kind of um you know

out clauses or do we have beyond the first year? Well, the problem with that would be that you would have to prove that they didn't meet certain criteria in the contract and by the time you figured that out and part of ways, you would then not be able to get another paving company to step in because their their their calendar would be full. So that would be very difficult to to do.

before. Correct. I mean they for a while here they were the primary in the town for Yeah. When Sean when Sean was around we've never had them do any hot mix. We had them do the cold mix and the That's a good point and that's why I brought that up. That's a good point. Yeah. because then trucking is not really an issue, right? Because it's coming in cold and

doesn't matter. Temperatures don't matter. Yeah. So, we're we're talking about I just did a little math. It's about a it's about a five and a half% difference over the co over the life of the contract. So, I just I'm really I mean I'm looking I'm going to follow the lead of you know people that know I probably know the least about this of everybody on this call right now. So, Todd, what do you think? you you um work in this world a little bit, don't you?

Yeah. I'm a little surprised that All State was that much lower cuz uh I did the same thing on uh on the day day road subdivision. I I got a price from all state and crooker and um crooker was just a little bit less not and not not a whole lot, you know, and that was a quarter mountain. Yeah. It's not a lot of It's not a lot of different, you know, it's not a lot of rogue, but they were fairly close.

They're within about 5% of each other. So, yeah, I I would tend to go towards Krooker because of the experience I had with them. We've done other roads with them and but you know 40,000 $16,000 a year is real. yeah I mean what it's worth. I mean, the 15 grand to me, I know it's a lot of money to a lot of people, and for me, it's a lot of money, but at the same token, I I always try to deal with whoever is I feel the most comfortable with the job. And

yeah, Calvin's the super on the job, and his preference is, well, you know, I've been using Krooker. I know what I got with this other company. I'm in a rush. Um, I would be more inclined to use Crooker. And I get it. It's $15,000. Maybe we can make it up somewhere else, but that's just my thought. I think there's yeah there's and I I think if we do that it's important to have you know some some reasons to hang our hat on and one is the comfort factor but two are a little bit more tangible in that you guys brought up that corker tends to have a longer season and they're closer in terms of getting material in its most

usable state uh to the job site. Um, yeah. I mean, I I agree. We got to have we got to have our ducks lined up in a row in terms of bullet points because the optics don't always look that great when you do something like that. When you put something up to bid,

expecting to take the lowest bid, but not always, obviously. But, um, I don't know. To me, you know, if it was my personal property and I knew Crooker versus Joe Schmakatelli and this other guy and this other guy, I mean, for 5%, I wouldn't bat an eye. I'd go with Cooker as I have in the past actually to be honest. So,

but I think this company I mean it's not like it's a brand new company. It's not like the trash contractor we did a few years ago. The guy didn't have a crap factor, right? I mean, it didn't even Company's a pretty it's a reputable company. I mean, it's not like it's I know we're comfortable with Krooker, but

you know, this company does work. They're in business. What what towns do they do locally around here that you know other contracts over the years? Uh they've worked in Lisbon last year do a lot up in the Richmond area. uh they

you know it keeps I think it I mean it's a close call but the one pros going with the allied side is that you know it it it does it does send the message that a lower bid is important to us and you know it makes people sharpen their pencils in the future maybe on a on another bid if if we show that um because I think we I think we have another one well um later where the chief is also going to recommend the more expensive bid on one of his projects. So um but he's got really concrete reasons for that that make a lot of sense. But anyway, um

yeah, I mean my concern is a three-year run, right? But I mean it's not like it's a it's not like it's a you know fly by night company. I mean this is they've done work around other towns. So yeah. And so there is there must and I'm sure that the performance standards are spelled out in the contract or it will be correct Calvin.

Yes. Y so if presumably if they're meeting the performance standards we're happy and if they're not we can exit the contract, right? Yep. Yeah. Kelvin, I mean, if you're if you're behind and you think you're going to need every week or day, for lack of better words, of Crooker's plant being open later, maybe the conversation out of the gate is, are you guys shutting down as early as you typically do with this particular company because you may not be ready by then? And you might need that extra week or two that Clicker would afford you to have. to do.

I mean, everybody else closes way before Krooer. Krooker is out there till November and everybody else is closing um um o 1 of October or so. So, it's really gives us a lot of extra time to get what we need to do get to get done what we need to do.

Yeah. The problem with the one-year thing if they don't perform is going back to the guys like Krooker and say, "Hey, by the way, you know, they didn't perform." And Crooked says, "By the way, that's not our price anymore."

Yeah. No. Very. Yeah. Very, very true. That's exactly what I would tell you if you came to me and knock on my door after that. I think anybody would. Yeah. You can guarantee it. Now you're my friend. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Now you want to be my friend.

What happened two weeks ago? Yeah. All right. So, somebody want to make a motion because I'm not like I said, I I have worked with them in the past. And I am going to reiterate the comfort level m is is important and like I said I mean I know the employees that have left all states and it's not the same crew that we dealt with a few years ago. I I remember remember we had the cold patch issues and the questions from town and Jerry came in and and talked with us and Jerry's no longer there

and so that's one reason why I I've lost some of that comfort level and you know Sean's not there but that's a different reason obviously and um but I don't have any contact there now that I feel comfortable with. So, um, so that's kind of where I am. But that said, if Shaw Brothers was low, I wouldn't know anything about him and I'd probably, you know, be fine. But, um, so

I don't want to make the motion just because of my ties to Krooker, but I mean, that's the direction I'm leaning for sure. All right. I'll I'll make the motion just to put it out on there. Um, I'm going to move that we accept the bid from Crooker Construction.

Seconds. Okay. All right. At least we can start the official discussion now. Any any I think this is a this is a tight one, but I think to me the the comfort factor, the longer season, that's that's real. And the proximity of the material, that's real. And we're really we're we're talking about like a 5% difference. So it's um I think it can be justified.

Any other comments? Yeah, like I said, I just think it's not a it's not a fly by night company that I know they're different people over there like Rob said, but um I just think we got to look at every dollar for the taxpayer. So,

yeah. No, I I hear you. Fair statement. Any other any other comments? Yeah, Kalvin. Uh, I'll just give you an example. When we worked with the other company in the past, um, typically with Crooker, I go down through with a can of paint and I mark out some deeper depressions and I say, "We're going to spot shim these these these spots because you can only put so many inches in a lift and with to get compaction." And so when all states came down to do the uh cold mix, I went down through and did the same thing. And uh they looked at me like I had four heads. They were like, "Okay, who's going to pay for that?" Uh workers always just whatever I ask them to do, they just go do it. They make it happen. Um you lose that flexibility. So I'm not sure. There might be some other things I'm not anticipating that I go to ask them to do that. Um,

well, presumably that should be pretty well detailed like in the contract like what what you could what's included you can ask them to do. We specified a number of tons for spot shipping. I did make sure I put that in there, but what if they go over 15 tons, you know, crooked would just do it for the same price, whereas, you know, they they they they could say, "Well, I'm not doing it for that price."

Yeah. when you're talking about shimming, you're you're guess you're guessing all you're using an educated guess because you can't measure every wheel right in every depression. So, I'm just throwing that out there that, you know, we don't know what we're going to get in that. So, it could it could cost us more than $15,000 a year in extras.

questions? paving contract bid from Krooker Construction. So, please uh if you're state your vote when I call your name, please. Todd Buller. You had to ask me first, right? You're in the top left of my monitor. That's I know. No.

Todd's a no. Is that right? Did I get that right? Yeah. Okay. Rob Panto. Yes. Mark Faren, no. Are you bastards? Rich George. Yes. Well, I'm voting yes. So, three to two, it goes to Krooker. Yep. Fair enough. All right. that we had either way. You know, it's it's

we're choosing between two good options, right? Yeah. Yeah. Um, it's difficult. Yeah. Good discussion though. Yeah. Too bad discussions don't happen like that on higher levels of government. Okay. 4C workers comp uh safety incentive

program. Did I get that right? Yes, I think so. Okay. So, Ruth, do you want to give us a little briefing on this one? Well, MMA has started a workers comp safety inspection program. Um, and if you follow their guidelines in the program, uh, they will, um, give you a

discount on your workers's compensation insurance. Uh, the lowest discount is 5%, but it does go up, I believe, to 10%. Um, and so I have talked to Calvin and Chief regarding this, and these are things that we do. Um, this would just more solidifying uh the the system that we have. Um, and then we would report all of our system back to um, MMA and then uh, and then they would give us a discount.

the materials. There's different tiers depending on like how what level of safety measures you put in place and but you have to self-report where you are by September 1st for a potential adjustment for the next year's rate. Is that that's how that

Yes, they did I did get an email today that extended the deadline uh for this part of it uh but not the September 1st deadline. So, I don't really know why you would put it off. Yeah. You know, if you were going to do it anyways.

Okay. Uh, and this is a new program. Yes. Yeah. Okay. Any, uh, board members have any questions or comments on this? I mean, is there a downside? I mean, is they're doing it. I mean, well, sometimes the cost to keep up with their standards can be higher than what your premium is. So, I mean, it's something that needs to be looked at, but I just don't know at what in how in-d depth you want to look at it. But, you know, I I this is one of those prime examples as a select member. I'd say I think this is something nice for the town manager to look at and implement over the next year.

was reading through it. But the first step, Ruth, is just what? Like, yeah, we're interested basically. Yeah, the acknowledgement that and then never did anything else, what would happen? Well, that's a good question. the what is what's the term? Um

well the acknowledgement and the resolve the the deadline changed um it changed to sorry had it up and then I lost it. Okay. So the acknowledgement is not due anymore until July 1st and the resolve is not due till August 1st now.

Okay. So we have the time. Yeah you do have the time. So maybe um and maybe you know Chief and and Calvin, you guys might want to listen up on this one is that I think if and you too if you guys look through the criteria and if you haven't already and see if there's anything in there that raises a concern for you like that would be really expensive to do that you know or anything like that that that pops out at you. I skimmed it. Most of what I saw was about training and communication and like, you know, good practices in terms of like lifting and wet floors and stuff like that. Um, but if there were any sort of like equipment or monitoring system or something like that that would need to be purchased, we'd probably want to evaluate that.

Say anything about like an external audit or anything like that? I mean, I believe there was something about that. Don't they don't they come and check you out, Ruth? I think they do. Um, I think they do. I was trying to read through it, but I just

do the visits regardless of whether you do this or not. as well. Um, we we do this at the sewer district. There's really not much co there's no cost for us beyond what we're already spending on safety and training and stuff. Anyway, um and even if we don't meet all the tier levels, like there's three different tier levels and and you get a discount based on that, um it's probably worth doing even if we only meet the lowest or this or the, you know, first or second tier, which those those items had pretty I think we'd probably pass as is um looking at it. So, so I think it's worth doing. It's I don't think there's a concern. Um, you know, I don't I've never wor seen a company lose money because of it. Um, it's really it's really all about incentivizing safety. So, I think it's a good program from MMA.

Yeah, I know. I you know, my question especially when our rates went up so much is, you know, there's probably other options from the town to be insured by and, you know, it's nothing wrong just kind of like paving contacts, just sometimes split that stuff out the bid and see where we stand. Um it's just food for thought also.

That that's a great point. So well given the extensions of the deadlines, it doesn't feel like we need to really do anything on this tonight and that maybe we should, you know, revisit it. Um when's the first deadline, Ruth? June July 1st.

July 1st, I think it was. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, May, you know, mid May to mid June, we could look at this again and um uh when things, you know, settle down with, uh the whole town manager thing is resolved and then we can go from there. That would kind of be what I would say.

I think that's fair. Yep. It for now. Okay. All right. I'm going to move on to 4D, a discussion of bulky waste day. So Ruth reached out and um sounds like uh Cassella was absolutely in agreement that they um would provide at no cost some sort of a bulky waste opportunity this year because we didn't have one last year. They're not comfortable doing one in May. It's it's too soon and I would concur with that. Um so they've given us a couple of options. we can do one later in the year like say maybe September. Um uh but they've got some different conditions on that in terms of like nothing can be over five feet long and people when they bring their stuff it needs to be kind of sorted and separated by material. So, like metal is separate from I don't know. I don't know if it's just metal that needs to be separated out, Ruth, or is it other stuff or

It's It's really just the metal because that goes in a different spot than the rest of the trash. The rest of the trash goes into the packers. Yeah. The other option they've offered that I I found intriguing was, you know, we could pick a day and say, "Oh, in that day, um, Durham residents can bring their bulky waste to their, um, facility in West Bath." Um, it's a little bit of a drive. Um, but it's logistically it's by far the easiest option. Um, so put that out for discussion.

provide us a week rather than just one day. Oh, maybe. What did they say? One day, Ruth, or what? How did they They did say one day, but I I didn't ask if we could do it for a week, or something. I mean, bulky waste is just when we have it, it's only one day.

It's true. No, that's true. But you can make multiple trips to the I mean depending on where you live in the town, you could you could you could go there five six times. It's not necessarily true. That's right. Yeah. It's not the easiest thing to do to go to West Bath. I mean I go there quite often and it's

Yeah. All right. So that's a clarifying question. Would it just be one trip or could it be like for a number of days like a week or or two two consecutive Saturdays or or whatever? So Ruth will pose that question. Any other because we don't need to make a decision tonight, right? I mean,

uh, no. No. Right. Okay. But any other any other questions that we would want Ruth to go back to them with? no. I mean, are they are they looking for a specific level? What, you know, I think we're in green or whatever we're in now, or are they looking for a specific before they would want to maybe possibly implement this again? I mean, what what seems what is there a

Well, they're looking guideline that they're going by. No, not particularly. They're looking towards September because they feel that in September there will be a a better number of people who have been vaccinated. Um and at this point they're just concerned that their crew would would uh come down with the COVID and have to be um stuck inside, stay at home and and then they'd be out a whole crew. So I think that they're thinking in September the her immunity will be much better and more people will be vaccinated. So this I'm reading from the letter they sent Ruth. So this is about if we did the bulky waste uh in September uh they would provide all the labor packing trucks rolloff containers for metal OBW is that something bulky waste um and tires. Residents would need to organize their material in their cars, trucks, trailers. We would need all material to be bagged, boxed or in clear containers.

We are trying to reduce injury and sickness. Also asking residents to organize the material in piles in their vehicles. Metal on one side and OBW on the other. 5T in length and shorter to prevent debris flying or materials getting packed down from packer trucks.

And now you're talking about 40 trips to the Well, that's your traditional five trips. It might take you 10 trips if you got to do that because you got to pack it. Everything is man. I mean that's a lot of work. Yeah. I don't I don't think that holds uh true for people who take it to West Bath, though. I I can ask them that, but it's it's a different situation in West Bath because they're not shoving everything in packers.

All right. Well, why don't you get that additional information, Ruth, that we've talked about so far and everyone can kind of noodle it over and we'll talk about it again. Hey. Hey. Oh, you already? Yeah. Anything else on the bulky waist day?

Memorial Day parade and 5K fun run. Yes. Have you had anybody reach out to you, Ruth, or are you just asking this question on your own? Well, partially on my own. I did have a conversation with uh with Chad the other day. Um and we we talked about stuff, but you know, it I I figured if we're going to do it, we should start making plans um now. So, I was just wondering

what you what your guys's feelings was on it. Oh, go ahead, Gretch. What's the state's feelings on that? You know what I mean? I'm fine with it personally, but I don't know what I did feel about it. Well, I did the calculations. Um, and you could, if you had social distancing along both sides of the road during the parade, you could have up to, I think it was 950 people. I got

people actually in the parade would have to social distance, right? can tell people that are standing on the side of a road, hey, by the way, you guys can't clump together. because I know what's gonna happen. Everybody I know is gonna come together.

I can tell you that right now. Talk to the hand, right? Yeah. Who are you folks, right? The co police. Um, as far as the parade itself, you know, I don't know. I guess you could have a parade with vehicles and every, you know, family per car or something going through town. But I think it would just depend upon the state. I don't know if we'd want to

What's the What kind of situation or status is the committee in? Do we Is there a committee anymore? Yeah. Yeah, we have a committee. Okay. Yeah, I did discuss it with Joe um how as well and uh his comment was that he didn't want to be the only one doing a Memorial Day parade.

Good point. I don't think we'll be the only one. I just think we may be in the minority. Like there's only going to be a couple. I don't think we'd be the only one. Chief, do you have any comments on it? Thoughts? Not Not at the moment. Actually, I just noticed that it was on the agenda tonight. I I really haven't had a chance to do any research about what the state's recommending yet for that. So, I can look into it. Well, by I know by uh May 24th is when all outdoor venues go to 100% capacity. Um with you still got the mask

and I think you still got the six feet even. So I don't know how you ever do 100% capacity if you're all six feet apart. um by the time we get to Memorial Day, most assuming we're we stay on the present, you know, course um the outdoor

restrictions are pretty much gone at that point. That that's still the issue though is is even at this point there's still daily conflicting information depending on what source you look at. It's um I think I think we can certainly look into it, but I wouldn't I wouldn't assume anything just yet.

have to I mean what what is it what comes to planning this? Is it I know for like the fun run it's there's like 25 people there probably is normally what they have and yeah we had talked Chad and I had talked about maybe doing that on a rotating basis. you know, they don't get a ton of people, you know, so you could you could um you know, have

you mind if you're the only one? Yeah. Have one group leave at 8 and one group leave at 8:10 and one group leave at 8:20 or something is what we were kind of talking about. Uh if you were going to do the fun run and then um yeah, so

but even like the parade, I mean, how long does it take to how much notice do people need for a month? I think if we if we made sure that we we decided we were going to go in the direction if we wanted to go in the direction and obviously if you start in the direction and you need to to cancel at the last second then you know you do. Um but I think a month would be a a good uh starting point.

Yeah. I I wonder if we just you know if have them start planning with the understanding of it's really a contingency plan. you know, like let's plan as if we're going to do it. But we all know that we got we kind of it's kind of like a, you know, game time decision whether you actually go, you know, get a week or two out whether you can call a go or no go, but prepare as if you're going to go.

Yeah. The other thought I would have is, you know, Memorial Day if it seem obviously that's not as far away as it sounds, you know, maybe they might want to think about a Fourth of July parade or a Labor Day parade. Um, and I only say that because, you know, Lisbon is about out of any town that I know of in the state of Maine, Moxy Parade is everything to that town.

Um, and they've already elected not to go forward with that. And they're, you know, they're usually pushing the boundaries when it comes to this stuff. But they're one of the few schools in the state that actually shift everybody back on the first part of the year. So for that would be,

you know, my hesitation like if they're not doing it, we're doing it. It's risky for sure. But theirs is a little different than ours, too. Don't they have like food uh carts and and other things? Parade's a parade. Yeah. After the parade, parade's a parade. They have a 5K run in their morning and then they have a parade, which is a very good parade and a very big parade.

Um and then the food thing. I mean, I don't know. I'd say, you know, some people go to it, but I think most people go for the parade and then it's pretty much that thing's pretty much over after 2 3:00 in the afternoon for most. There's a concert at night. That gets pretty busy, but like I said, they they're not doing it. They've already and that that parade means everything to that town.

Yeah, I was surprised. Yeah, that's a good point. Maybe, you know, we just plan it. Say we may have to postpone it. I mean, I think it would be great for the community if we could do something, but yeah, I just think it's a little short right now. Plus, you're not going to be able to probably utilize the school. The kids won't have the fun day this year, which usually brings them all out.

Um, so that's why I was thinking maybe either July 4th day or, you know, Fourth of July parade or maybe a Labor Day parade or something of that nature. Thanksgiving Day parade. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, it feels it feels a little

too premature. Trouble we don't really need for Memorial Day. We'll make the paper which is cool. Yeah, that's good enough for you. I mean look a little different. Freeport will love us. All right. or F uh self-contained breathing apparatus

request for proposal results. Chief 4F, do you have I think you have an updated agenda, but okay. Oh, what did I say? You said 4F. Yeah, that's what I got. Yeah, they have an old agenda apparently. Oh, sorry. Oh. Oh, yeah. Sorry.

All right. Sorry. I would have been more prepared for that. So, um, Okay. This has been this has been my curse for today. Earlier today, I actually was unmuted accidentally in a Zoom meeting. I didn't swear, but uh oh, it was close. Um, so we get two two proposals back. Um, one for 52,500 from

Strategic Safety Dynamics. um which sells the Drager brand uh SCBA and one from fire tech and safety out of Winthrop uh for 56,950 who sell the Scott SCBA. Did everybody get the review that I sent on that? So, I mean once again my recommendation is I mean Scott in my opinion is the superior product anyway um for training

purposes for compatibility purposes for not having two different brands of a pretty critical piece of equipment in the station. I I Scott should be our purchase. if but if that's the position then I'm you maybe in hindsight next time we have to do this we spec that we want Scott whatever and and get prices on the Scott because if if if it's a compatibility issue I agree with you 100%. Then

the the only not even bother the only issue becomes um is sometimes people can take issues if you write what they term as a lockout spec. Um, so I mean that if we if we hadn't opened it up to everyone, that could be an issue. But but another just another simple point, it's it's finances for us. We've just spent, you know, $40,000 in the last two years replacing all of the SCBA bottles. Um, this other this other vendor's brand, we'd have to buy all new bottles with that purchase. And they're not giving us anything on a trade in. The bottles don't work with like they're not un it's not a universal thing.

Yeah. That's no good. I think we need to just write the proposal and say Scott because there's no way that we would vote not to go with that. Well, I said some communities have had issues with, you know, vendors that are are trying to get in the game or get their foot in the door in the state. I mean, I I don't know of actually anybody else in the state of Maine right now that has Drager. That's one reason why I think that their their price is lower, but it's just the fact of the matter is Scots's the smarter purchase for us across the board.

So, that would be that would be I would be would be awarding that pending the vote on the 6th, of course. Yep. So, I'm going to move that we award the SCBA uh purchase to uh fire tech and safety in Winthrop main uh pending the outcome

of the town meeting vote. Second. Bob seconds. Any further discussion? you're in favor, yes. If not, say no. Todd Bolier, yes. Rob Panto, yes. Mark Faren, yes. Rich George, yes. And I am a yes as well. Okay. Um, next, uh, 4G is a, um, Adam Chamberlain, you may recall, came to us. This is before before COVID. Um he's a local uh boy scout working on his Eagle project. And his Eagle Scout project is to build a uh pavilion over at Runaround Pond um on on post and and

picnic table and provide a sheltered spot uh for people. And he already has a permit from our code enforcement officer. And basically the town is the beneficiary of the project. So, he has some paperwork from Boy Scouts of America where um the beneficiary needs to sign basically says yes, he's brought the project and we've agreed to it and yada yada yada. So, I'm asking that the board authorize um me to sign that um for Adam.

drawing or anything? Yeah, we reviewed stuff. Rob is actually his uh what? Project supervisor or coach or whatever. Uh project coach, I believe it's called. Yeah. So, I helped Adam locate it. We we did take some pictures of the area with some stakes in the ground and uh and he has provided some sketches. It was back in September of last year. Um but we and so I think we've actually discussed the project a couple times. I'm not sure we've seen a formal proposal, but we we've definitely seen,

you know, enough to get the idea. So, yeah. Basically, all right. Any other um do we actually do we have a motion? Did somebody Yeah, I'll make a motion that we authorize Kevin to sign uh this application. Is an application what it is?

Yeah, application's fine. Yep. Yeah. we lost Rich. I think we lost Rich. Well, we can vote with four. We We don't have to wait for him for this one. All right. So, state your vote when I call your name, please. Todd, yes.

Rob, yes. Mark, yes. And I'm a yes. So, that vote is 4. We lost Rich to technical difficulties. Okay. So, we're going to move on to uh 5A. Um Calvin, road commissioner report. bid. I guess we don't need to go over that again. Uh the GPCOG heating fuel bid uh came in. I sent you a copy of that. Uh, so we're currently paying two

$2.70 a gallon from down east. Uh, they've agreed to lock in. Their lock in price was 237. Is this just for public works, Calvin? Yeah, we're the only ones that burn heating oil. Everybody else that was my question. Okay.

Propane. So, this was a GP cog bid went out. Uh so um all of the the the bid they were the only bidder of the entire region. So um 237 uh is the lock in price and I think with the way fuel prices are going um this year I think the lock in was the best way to go. Last year we went with rack plus. So um so I've agreed to do that. Um

so that that uh went through the proper bidding process through GP COGS all the towns join in. So uh there's that. So we're still saving um you know 30 something cents a gallon off from what we're paying now. So and it's guaranteed for a year. So

is that lower lower than the price you built your budget on? Um, I I I think it's going to come out to we we figured the gallons uh and it it it will be right around I figured 40,000. It's going to come out to right around there when I added up the gallons today that we anticipate using. So

40,000. Yeah. Oh, no. I'm sorry. That's the That was a transportation fuel bow. Yeah. that came in today and we went I met with them today on that. That's a different We got these two uh uh they were the winning bidder on that also. So, um

but uh we had a sauna business going over there. How many gallons did you say we use over there of heating oil? What was that? What's that, Mark? We couldn't quite hear you. How many gallons did you say we use in heating oil?

2000 2,000. Yeah. So uh so that uh I I think that's the way to go with what I and everybody else have spoken to thinks uh fuel prices are going to do in the upcoming year. I think that's a wise move to lock in at 237. the uh I've I've I've sent you the attached uh attached to the latest drafts from the stream crossing uh grant the two grants. So, uh pretty much there was there was just a couple of typos on my email address and the spelling of the town. So, uh uh

road. So, it was just a couple of minor things. I talked to him today, called back and he was going to make those changes. Uh but so I guess uh the that will be the only change uh on the document. And with that said, I would like to have permission to um I had him change public works director to road commissioner. I had him change um the email address to.com and the Royals borrowed spelling. So those were the only changes. So, I guess

do we do we have an idea of how much we will need to spend beyond the grant money for this? Do we have that yet? We don't. I know Panel just had a bid opening on theirs came in at 137 and I think theirs is a bigger structure than this than these will be

um, much? 125. And we've got two of them, so it's 250,000. bids, you would consider we would pay about 24,000 plus probably some some uh um design. I think their structure is a little bit bigger, but yeah. So, just to put a little cushion in there, if we needed if we needed to spend 40,000 above and beyond um this, we we have that in public works capital.

Oh, yes. So, okay. Is that 40,000 per or 40,000 combined? I was thinking combined for the if we need just as a you know Oh, no. It's a good idea. I just wasn't sure. I missed the thread of whether or not I was thinking total,000 fur.

Yeah. Okay. Um, so I also sent you the um uh the summary report from the engineer. U so I know that there was a question whether or not we wanted to do it this year or next year. So um he gives the recommended schedule of this year optional schedule of next year. Uh well, this looks like he was supposed to

put 2022 on the optional schedule, but he put 2021 on both of them. So, that was a typo, obviously. Uh when you get actually when you get further down, it says 2022. Yeah, I think those are typos. Yeah. Well, no, those some of those are right there, but that first one.

So, I am I we have to sign the contract like tomorrow. Is that what that Yeah. Well, that's just saying that we're going to accept the funds. It doesn't doesn't dictate when we have to do the project. Um, that's up to us.

But is that a deadline? We have to sign that tomorrow. No, it was just a uh um it was that's when the DP uh suggested that the contract would be available for signing. Oh, gotcha. Okay. And today they were supposed to send me the final um and I didn't get it because I have a feeling that they used that same wrong email address. But I'll call them back tomorrow.

All right. So I just would like to have authorization to sign the agreement with D. Um then we would need to discuss the schedule um of when you want to do it. This year the engineer recommends this year. He he thinks that if we wait till next year, it's going to go up 10 15%.

in his letter here and that's just materials cost because like right now it's an extremely competitive bidding cl well not competitive I'm surprised Panel got eight bids but most contractors are pretty well booked up and by fall I think they're going to have pretty much everything planned out. So I think if we go to bid this year we're going to have a hard time getting anyone even to give us a number. Well, we'd be ready for bid in April. Uh be ready for bid in April. Yeah,

we can get it that fast. Okay. Yeah. Well, I guess if we go with that schedule and we don't like the bids, we can always sit on them, right? Right. Or rebid it in the spring. So, we need a motion here to just to authorize him to sign the contracts.

Yeah. Let me I'll try to um I move that we authorize Calvin to sign the uh D grant contracts for both Swamp Road and Quaker Meeting House Road as presented. A second. Mark seconds. Any further discussion or questions Calvin on that?

your name, please. Yes. If you're in favor of the motion, no. Todd Boyer, yes. Rob Panto, yes. Mark Farren, yes. Rich George, yes. And I'm a yes as well. All right, weight restriction ordinance. So, um, uh, I I I I guess I would need authorization to enter into a contract the same as we did last, uh, year with Krooker that I and the engineer meet with Krooker over at their plant. We signed the, uh, the bid docks, the cont the contract.

Well, didn't we didn't we actually get didn't we actually get a document last year to review before we did that? Um, yep. I can get that I can get that to you. Uh, yeah. And you know, we just want to make Yeah. Then we should review the actual uh

review the contract. Yep. Okay. Um I I I Yep. I will I will get that. I thought I had sent you the contract documents um back a while ago, but I will I will get it send it to you. I don't think it's anything we need to do. I could do it next meeting.

Department report. Uh chief. the report that I sent? Um the crew is here tonight working on that technical rescue training that I had referenced. Um all of our apparatus are in service. Uh the the two remaining discussion topics. one um the ending of our billing service with Freeport. Um so Freeport Fire Rescue after July 1st will not be continuing running a billing service. Uh so they let us know as soon as they had made that decision. They've come to that while they're making their budgetary changes for this year. Um so they're going to be going out to bid. uh they had offered the opportunity for us to join go into a joint bid with them, excuse me. Um to pursue that or we can or I can go out and look for for things of my own. I'm not sure what the what direction the board would like me to take. Um honestly, we do so few calls.

Uh most places do billing based on a percentage of what they bill you. Um, speaking with the Chief Jordan over in Freeport, the discussion would actually be for us to tack on with them to whatever billing company they find um for the continued um per call rate that we do um right now, which would be which would which would get us more which would net us more in return um than going our own way and and billing for a percentage. Uh I'm happy to do whatever the board would like. I was just wanted to make you aware of this and I'll be exploring more uh in the coming week.

So op what do we know much about options just for the sake of argument? I have no issue going in with Freeport as an option but what other options are there? We there there are there are honestly there there are quite a few billing companies out there. There are very few services that I know in the state that do their own billing. most of them contracted out because it's become such a complex thing billing for healthcare related stuff. Um, so I I I was in planning to reach out to a few different departments to find out who they utilized and speak with Chief Jordan to find out if he had done any any research on where they were going, but this uh the impression I got from him on the phone uh last Wednesday was this was a a pretty abrupt decision that they were making. So uh I don't think they've gone far with the exploration either. So, we don't need a you So, you're just letting us know you're going to do a

little bit more research and maybe have a little more detail on options. Correct. We I mean this won't this won't take effect until July 1st, but um the sooner the sooner we have a plan, the better. I just wanted to make the board aware of this.

Okay. and the RFPs that came back for the uh for the fleet evaluation or the fire protection evaluation. Um, did everyone get the review that I put together for that? Yep. Okay. Um, so like I said, I I put my I put my opinion in there as well. Um, one of them being at 44,450, that's just not not within the scope of what we could really consider. Um the uh the bid for 18,525 for municipal resources that's certainly more within the price range um considering the initial the initial price that I had spoken with um uh emergency vehicle response uh was about 13,000. Um but as

as I expressed in my review um sorry I keep hearing feedback. It makes me think someone's trying to talk to me. Um, as I expressed in my review, the the information from municipal resources left me a little a little concerned that it was a lot of it was regurgitated information that they have the service provide to them. It's just put together in a very fancy format. Um, nothing really of the depth that I was looking to get out of this evaluation. Um, and then as I said, I was I was much much happier with the with the product that emergency vehicle response had demonstrated. Um, but they expressed their concerns with the way the RFP was worded. Um, because I think that we have more homework to do on our own in regards to answering those questions about what the town actually wants.

I think that's fair. Um, so what are you recommending as the next step, Chief? So, as as was stated in the letter, and I believe I hope I included the copy of that letter from EVR. Um my recommendation is is that we go with their tiered recommendation. We do the the evaluation of the apparatus first. That is the that is right now until we know more about what the what the town's people specifically want moving forward. Um that's the real meat of what we need to know for capital planning moving forward. Um, and the the sooner we have that, the better we can actually apply that information to the capital planning for the coming year. So, my recommendation would be to reach out to them uh to take that tiered approach and to um schedule the fleet evaluation with them as as soon as as soon as we're able to. Um

well I think I think there might be a step we need before we do that like okay a price. Um okay um like I think I think maybe I think they raised some legitimate points about scope of work. So I I think we need to um go back to them with the refined scope of work as as you've described and

ask them to give us the detailed proposal on on what they would do and a price. Okay. Um I I did not I did not because this was an open RFP process. I did not engage with them, but they they did they did give us a price um initially for the fleet evaluation two years ago when I had talked to them about that and that was that was at 13,000 and the repeat discussion that I had with them before right before we put this RFP out um that was a price they were still willing to honor.

All right. Well, that's great. But we should have that in a document. Absolutely. Absolutely. So that's just that's one piece of it. Uh members have other questions or concerns about Yeah. So that 13,000 though that's only for the first tier of their tiered approach, right?

Correct. So and then what's the second tier? So So the second so the first the first tier would be the would be the actual apparatus assessment, the fleet assessment that we had discussed. The second tier would be um the larger piece of what what they term a fire protection study. So they would look at one the information that we present to them as far as what does the town want for services both fire and and EMS coverage. Then they would look at things like the station condition um station location uh water supply uh mutual aid availability um those types of things. look at at call response times, how how to how to match more closely what the

what the town's people want for a service with what we're already doing and what we already have to provide that service and then recommendations for where to go moving forward. Okay. And I mean so and then the third tier is

No, there was just the there's just two tiers. So that sounds like that second tier scope of work is maybe even more than the first tier. I I don't want I don't want to speak for a company. Um and what they Yeah. I I would I would rather I would rather have them come to the board with a with a proposal and cost but

and we Yeah. I think it's two separate questions. I I I think uh we may decide never to do a second tier Yep. study really. The first tier is really I think it fills the need for planning for apparatus capital expenditures. It's not going to answer questions about you know is the fire station too big or too small or do we need a you know satellite station or do we need you know whatever you know it doesn't doesn't answer those questions. Um, I think fair what I think what became apparent is we and we won't be able to answer those questions unless we did a you know pretty in-depth public input process but in terms of planning capital and you know what do we need in the fleet and what do we not need in the fleet this is the work that'll help us get that. So, and you're saying the the company that submitted the $18,000 price. I can't I I don't want to get them confused here.

Right. That was municipal resources. Yes. And you don't think that they're qualified to do the job essentially? in looking at what they presented to the town of Gray, which is a which is a larger department with a larger staff, a larger budget, um a larger community, uh with with more fire protection concern than ours. I wasn't I wasn't impressed with the material that was presented simply because like I said a lot of it a lot of it seemed to be um regurgitated information that the service already provided them in the first place like their response times and their staffing numbers and things like that. That's a lot of it was stuff looking at that type of a review that's a lot of things we already know. I know what my response times are. I know what my staffing level looks like. um you know daytime to nighttime things like that. What what we don't what we don't have what we need more critical information on is the

condition of the apparatus and what to think about moving forward particularly with those in regards to capital and what they presented was was not nearly uh to the depth that I was looking for. So, in fairness, chief, it feels like maybe in just to cover our bases, maybe we should go back to them and offer them the same type of feedback and clarification that we're offering um emergency vehicle response and and ask ask them to um resubmit.

Well, well, that's Go ahead. Well, I that's kind of what I'm getting at. I mean, I think in a way I wish this was just an RFQ and we were just going based on qualifications, but when we put a proposal out there and then a a company doesn't give us the price, now they've seen or it's public knowledge what the other prices are. They may not have seen. So, I have a hard time going back and negotiating with them. And I so I think Kevin raises a good point that if we're going to negotiate and try to get apples to apples, we need to do it with both companies. I think we're safe to throw the third one out public consulting group because they weren't in the ballpark at all.

Right. Um but you know, if EVR had at least given us a a range or hourly rate or something that we could lock in and to compare, then I'd be more comfortable with it. In in in all fairness, before this even went out, um EVR did give us a price.

That is true. And and it was and it was exactly for the same information that they've put out there again. Yeah. Well, they could have included that in the in the response. Okay. Yeah. I I I think I think that I I understand what what you're saying about the price not being put in there, but I think that I think that was sort of included with with the the letter that they returned simply stating that some of what we put into the RFP really wasn't within the scope of what they were um with what this type of proposal should be encompassing. So they they would they would rather address that specifically and then and then come back and discuss it. So,

so Chief, we're really I mean this report is really just from what you've been talking about is just going to say like truck X needs to be replaced in five years and truck Y needs to release in 10 years. I think what the I think what the town and what I was thinking we were going to get out of this was, you know, do we need a ladder truck? I mean, I think that's probably the biggest question in the town, right?

Well, but there's Right. But there's but there's I don't think we're going to get that out of this what we're talking about right here. It's more of, you know, here's the equipment we have and here's when it's it needs to be replaced

you know, 10, do we get that next step? I don't I mean I know that's a lot of money with what Mark's saying. I I you know I agree somewhat on that is like um what you know for I'd like I'm looking for a company to come in and and say okay you've got two of those and one of those and one of those but really what you need is two of those and one of those you know and um to and then we and then

we can build a capital plan around make making that transition. But what what they were trying to explain was that's not really that's not really what any vendor should be coming in and doing. We we need to start with one. We we have we have a fleet. We have the fleet that we have and I need I need more information before I can legitimately discuss capital expenditures and costs compared to you know what we have a an expert's

opinion on the condition that it's in. how long they could last, what we can do with what we have right now. The other piece of that, and this is kind of what they challenged with some of the wording in our RFP, was the fact that they could come in and say, "Well, you should have, you know, four shifts with 20 guys and two more substations and five more trucks." That's that's what we think you should have. But what does the community want for? It's not their place to come in and tell us or the community what we should have for fire protection or EMS protection. We we need to kind of make that decision for ourselves,

right? No, I agreed on the service end, but I'm I'm just talking apparatus. Like it shouldn't need a big it shouldn't need a big, you know, fire services study or or public input for someone to come in and look at the types of buildings we have in the town and say whether they think of, you know, to provide adequate protection that a a ladder truck is necessary or not or if the fleet has enough water carrying capacity given the water resources in town or you know,

but once Again, that's that's where you're kind of the the the two different the two different reviews are kind of getting meshed together there because that's a that's a fire protection study. May maybe then then if then then maybe we hold off completely until we can get what we want because to Mark's point if we and and like you said we we have we have the fleet that we have but what if the fleet we have isn't really optimized for you know what the town can afford for one and what we need and I don't want to develop a capital plan to simply replace a fleet that's not optimized for the, you know, best bang for the buck and what we can um, you know, what we need to provide for protection service. We don't, I'm not looking for just, you know, like, yeah, you've got these six trucks and this is what you should do to those six trucks over the next, you know, 15 years. That doesn't really get us very far, I don't think.

by I'll stand behind my my review because EVR also did provide us with a copy of of a fire protection study that they did for that community in Indiana. And I and I feel like the material that they have produced demonstrates the quality of what we are looking for both for the apparatus review and the fire protection study compared to the study that was produced by um excuse me, Municipal Resources Incorporated.

Yeah. Rich Rich say you know Chief and I have had numerous conversations about this obviously whether it's in this format or at his office in particular but I'm I'm as of tonight I'm I'm a touch confused myself. So would this study identify for the town what specific apparatus we would need currently and or moving forward

that that would be that would be more part of the fire protection study. But as as we're trying to as we're trying to build as we're trying to build a capital plan, um we do we are looking at apparatus that we need to consider starting to figure out how to pay for within the next couple of years.

No, I understand that. I and and I can appreciate that. But the fact of the matter is you can't really formulate a capital plan if you're not sure if you're, let's say, buying a dump truck versus a plow truck or, you know, an excavator versus a loader. I mean, they're two different pieces of equipment. And what we were looking for, I believe collectively, um, is something that could identify what specific apparatus that we should be looking at moving forward, whether that is a ladder truck or something other than a ladder truck. Just to be specific. I don't mean to call we constantly pick on the ladder truck.

N sometimes I do, but that's really what I was looking for is someone that has to make a decision like that. What specific needs for apparatus does this particular town have based on demographics, etc. Okay. No, Chief, I know I know you're very anxious to get going with this and and but you know, as I what I'm thinking at this point is that one, we should wait until we have a town manager on board and and have that person help lend their experience and guidance to the process. And um and I

just lost my second thought. wait till the town manager comes on board um and kind of review where where we should go um with that to get the questions we want um answered. Could I ask Oh, sorry. Did I cut somebody off again?

I just have one more question in regards to a particular study of that nature from what you've seen in the past. And I I've looked at them, but you know, I'm just a lay person. I don't necessarily know what I'm looking at when it comes to stuff like that, but would it identify necessarily usage of that vehicle in term of service and for lack of better words use uh useful life in a town like this? Because it we always seem to go by like you and I have talked about this in your office, the quote unquote NFPA standard, which also encompasses New York City, Chicago, and LA. Well, what's the standard for towns such as Durham?

Yes. the usage of these vehicles. It it would it would include a recommendation like to answer your question, it would include a recommendation around something like that because once again in the in the community I served in previously um there's a truck that was built in ' 91 that's still in service that's still their their their primary you know second do pump truck um that was that was built very well that was recommend you know identified and recommended in the study. Um so it's it's about the it's uh a lot of that is focused around you know the condition of the apparatus the use of it how often you know is it first due is it second do how often is it used that way um so yes those would be answered in that in that type of study um to go back to to Kevin's question or statement before um we would get all of these answers by doing the full fire protection study through a company like EVR

from their recommendation in their letter. The that starts with the apparatus review for them. That starts with the the base of what we have and what we can do with it and then going forward. But that also encompasses us gathering information from the community about the what they want for fire protection and EMS.

Can you reach back out to them and ask them about the fire protection analysis? What the total package is for both? Um, I mean because I read this Angola Fire Department. I mean, I didn't read it. Okay. Yeah. Just flip through it. I mean, let's be honest.

I mean, it talks about, you know, water availability. I mean, it's some of the things were done, response times at different parts of the town, different types of structures in the town. I mean, it it sounds I don't want to I don't I I don't want to I don't want to give a number because once again, I don't want to I don't want to pin a company into

No, I don't want you to do that. I just think we should reach out to them and find I mean I I was $24,000 like the other one is, you know. No, it's not. I was I was I I had a rough I had a rough price that was discussed around 26,000 for the entire thing. Oh, so I remembered the other thing that I that I drew a blank on before kind of like the two things, you know, where I'm thinking right now is is that um it we should and it's this isn't that far off. wait until we hire a town manager. And then I think we should have um I think we should just reject all of these and uh bring emergency vehicle response and municipal resources in to meet with the board and answer questions and uh give us a presentation on what they would do uh along with um the new town manager. Um, and then maybe we more the request for quote that Rob mentioned and say, "Okay, this is what we're looking for. We want to be able to

answer these questions. Um, give us a quote on on the work necessary to do that." Rob, I just want to point out that I I pulled up chief's RFP here and it was very clear like to me, you know, the primary objectives, the first one is determine if the resources currently allocated to Durham Fire and Rescue are appropriate given the characteristics of Durham and community expectations. I mean, that's the first bullet point in the RFP. But we we

but no no nobody sitting here can actually make uh a a factual comment on what the community expectations are. But that's what we're asking them to find. And my point is is they sent us this tiered approach and this tier is going to get them in the door. But tier one and I think what I'm hearing from feedback from the board is tier one is not what we're looking for. So we want the whole package or nothing. Yeah. And I wonder, you know, I chief, you said that, you know, that tier one would come first. And as I'm thinking about this, that actually sounds backwards to me. It feels like that that first you need to go through the work and assess, well, what do you want the fire department to be? And then you determine, okay, what equipment do we need or not need to fulfill that mission versus the other way around?

Yeah. Because if you go ask the town that first, the town's going to say, "Yeah, well, I want 24/7 EMS. I want, you know, 24/7 staff at the fire station." Oh, well, it's going to cost you three quarters of a million dollars a year. Okay. Well, you know, I mean,

well, let's not do that, you know. I mean, I think that's that's the problem with going to the town first. The there the the point is that it's that it's our job to garner that information about what the town wants. And I and I agree with that. And and secondly, I I understand how it may seem backwards to people, but I'm also going to I'm also going to take the take the recommendation of a company that's been doing this for 25 or 30 years on the scale that they do it on that that's that that's the the smarter approach for them to develop the best information for us.

I I think this whole conversation illustrates why we need them here to talk to us and give us a presentation. Okay. I think we're all on board, Chief, with doing some work to get some answers. We just got to land on what's the right work that we need to do. So,

Anything else in your report, Chief? Nope. That's all I have. Thank you. Thanks, Chief. All right. Town administrator report. So, I don't really have much left over because everyone everything I put in my report usually shows up on the agenda anyways. Um, we did have the town property inspection today. MMA insurance, they came and inspected uh the town office, the Eureka, the Union Church, the river park, and the fire department and the salt shed as well. Uh, and the gentleman said that he found nothing to uh, suggest that we do and he's going to send me an email to that regards. And I've never had an inspection that went that way. So,

we go right to tier three. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200. So, kudos to everybody in town who's been taking care of our properties. Oh, great. Good to hear. Um, let's see here. Working on renewing our property and liability insurance. And then uh everybody needs to know the annual reports are in annual town reports are here in the office. They're also available online. Um and they're also at the get-go and go. Yes.

Um and so if any does anybody have any questions? And this is in the consent agenda, but what exactly is a bottle club? Maybe for the new guy on the board, a bottle club is where the amb is the amb is looking for. Bring your own.

People can bring booze into the amb. Okay, got it. It's a renewal. So, bring your own. That's what they've always y buddy. Okay. Thank you. All right. So, that's it, Ruth, for you for Yeah. If nobody has questions, I'm I'm good. Okay. So, we do have a couple of abatements to go through. So, I am going to move that we go into assessor's session.

Second. Rob seconds. assessor session. Todd Bullier. Yes. Rich George. Yep. Rob Panto. Yes. Mark Farren. Yes. And I'm a Yes. All right. These, if you recall, um a year or so ago, we decided that we were no longer going to uh collect property tax on common areas of um subdivisions because the we were actually spending more in resources chasing the very small amounts of money than we were actually getting uh from the taxes. So there were two common areas that uh were missed when we took them off the tax roles, if you will. And so these um both of these abatements are for that um situation. So my first motion is that we grant a tax

for the tax year of 2020 in the amount of $182.25 for map 2, lot 23. I will second that. Rob seconds. Any questions or discussion on that? Buller, um, abstain. Rich George, yes. Mark Faren, yes. Rob Panto, yes. And I'm a yes. So, we have a 40 vote with Todd abstaining.

And the next one, same situation. Uh, I'm going to move that we grant an abatement in the amount of $26.55 for the 2020 tax year for map 7, lot 17K. Rich seconds. Any discussion, questions on this one? All right. Call for the vote. Todd Buller.

Yes. Rich George, yes. Mark Farren, yes. Rob Panto, yes. And I'm a yes as well. Okay. I move that we adjourn assessors session. Second. Rich seconds. Call for the vote. Todd Boler, yes. Rich George, yes. Mark Farren, yes.

Rob Panto, yes. And I am a yes. I'm going to move that we item seven on the agenda. Move we approve the consent agenda as presented. Second. Rob seconds. Call for the vote. Todd Buller, yes. Rich George, yes. Mark Farren,

yes. Rob Panto, yes. I am a yes as well. Okay. Our next regular meeting, uh, actually the next important date is Tuesday, April 6th, voting from 8:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. at the Amvets Hall for our, um, referendum town meeting. But absentee ballots are actually available now until what's the deadline for absentee ballots, Ruth?

The Thursday before, which is I don't know what is the Thursday? April 1st. April 1st. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. April 1st when we close at 6:30. Okay. Um and then our Rex uh next regular board meeting Tuesday, April 13th at 6:30 and Tuesday, April 27th at 6:30. All right. At this point, I'm going to move that we enter executive session pursuant to 1 MRSA section 4056A

personnel matters. Discussion. Second. Rich seconds. Call for the vote. Todd Buller, yes. Rich George, yes. Mark Farren, yes. Rob Panto, yes. Miami, yes. Okay, we are in executive session. All right, so