TranscriptSelect Board Meeting ~ October 17, 2017

Durham Board of Selectment to order. It is October 17th and rise for the Pledge of Allegiance, please. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. [clears throat] Um let's see. Uh Ruth put um a few

amendments to the agenda on prior to the meeting 7 uh FGH and 8A. Does everybody have those? And are there any other amendments to the agenda? Okay. All right. So, public comment. Anybody here for the uh public comment portion? I think everybody that's in the room now is here for is on the agenda already. But okay, we pass over that

uh consent agenda. I'd entertain a motion there, please. I move that we accept the consent consent agenda as presented. Second. Second. All right. All in favor. Okay. Action and discussion items. Uh John Carroll of CMP is here to talk to us about the New England Main Energy Connect. Come right on up to the table so we can pick you up on the mic.

All right. I've got a got a drawing here that I'll put down that'll help a little bit for some reference. I can put it right side up. That'd be even better. Yeah. Yeah. Just just those are geography testing. Um unless you want to have have me set it here so people can see it.

Yeah. If you want to put it up like kind of against the wall by that black phone, I think that'd be good. All right. All right. Well, I want to start by just saying thank you for for the opportunity. I'm my name is John Carroll. I do government communications for CMP and Avan Grid. And um just want to sort of make two points. One, I'm here to inform you about a project we're working on that we think is beneficial for Maine and for the community. And then secondly to ask for your help on it at some point. So this is a there's an ask coming. It's an easy one.

Thanks for the warning. I don't want to surprise you. [laughter] All right. Um so the so the the issue that we're facing is is is just a little bit of background. Um Maine is part of a New England grid. So you know when we talk about improving the regional grid we're all part of the same high bulk power grid from Maine to Connecticut. We're also part of the same energy market. So what happens in energy prices in Massachusetts happens in Maine, Vermont or whatever. So we have so when we have common problems or opportunities in one state everybody has them. Um so as mayors we do have a a common challenge with the rest of the New England states and that is that over the past 10 or 15 years our uh the diversity

of our energy supply has shrunk down to fewer and fewer sources um and and concentrating particularly in natural gas. um you know years in years past we had more coal and oil plants and and nuclear plants. Um but today if you look on the ISO website which is the that's the manager for the regional grid at any given day at any given hour there's a a pie chart that can show you exactly where Maine's where New England's energy is coming from. Um most given most days it's going to be between 55 and 60 or a little more than that 60% is natural gas about 30% is going to be nuclear and

then the balance is hydro renewables biomass and and such. Um so the the the problem that represents is that we are more and more dependence on fewer and fewer types of fuel. Um nuclear is going through a slow phase out and those those plants are going away and probably the the dominant fuel today and in the future appears to be natural gas which is cleaner than some of the oil and coal plants that it replaced. Um and right now is relatively inexpensive but it's the prices are very it's due to it's subject to volatility especially in cold weather. Natural gas in cold weather is very constrained in New England. When you need it for heating and you need it for power plants, the price goes up and it drives up the price of electricity. If you think back a couple years ago during the polar vortex, uh prices for electricity on the day and and and and day and hourly markets were skyhigh. Um so we have a problem of too much too

much dependence on too few types of resources. They're also carbon based primarily resources and um we're subject to shortages or you know occasional scarcity that drives up price. Um the so the question is how do we change the mix? [clears throat] And Massachusetts about a year ago took a pretty bold step, a very bold step and said that they were going to direct their utilities to go out with a request for proposal for a large injection of clean energy into the New England grid for the Massachusetts utility customers. Um to give you a sense of the scale, it's a it's a 1200 megawatt line they want in terms of capacity, but they want to buy 9.45 four or five terowatt hours of electricity per year. Um, and to put that in context, that's about 10% of all the electricity produced in New England in 2016. So, they are going out and saying we want to buy 10% of the, you know, we want to inject 10% of new

electricity into the New England grid on an annual basis. Uh, and it has to be green. um they in March issued a request for proposals and it went across the region and uh companies were invited to to submit responses. Uh they got 46 responses from uh can from sort of west

to east from New Brunswick uh from northern Maine from central Maine from Quebec, New Hampshire, Vermont, New York and I and even some offshore offshore Massachusetts. So they got 46 proposals. CMP submitted five prop five of those 46

um and we are waiting to hear what the decision will be sometime in January 2018. January 25th is actually the day. [clears throat] Um [snorts] the reason that that that we submitted is that we had been looking for a period of time at the problems we have with the nature of the our fuel mix. We are only a TND company. We don't make energy policy. We don't make energy, but we deliver it. But we had been looking at what we what New England was going to need and thinking about the opportunities for the future and thinking what solutions we could provide. Um so over the past three or four years, we'd been looking at Quebec recognizing that we've for a very long time been tied to the Canadian grid uh through New Brunswick. that's been there for years. But um there's been no link between us and Quebec in in Maine. Um we

then went out and quietly uh acquired a corridor. It's very difficult to buy Greenfield corridor, but uh because of the nature of western Maine, we were able to buy a 50-mi corridor from up near the Wyman Dam, actually near the the Forks all the way to the Canadian border in the Biat Township. Um it's a working forest area. So we dealt with technically basically four land owners and we bought 50 miles of quarter from four land owners who are running logging operations. They understand what we want the corridor for. It's not incompatible. They said you going to cut down trees. That's what we do all day, you know. Um so we have we we established a 50-mi corridor from our existing system out to the Canadian border. Um it was not long after that we had finished that that the RFP came out. Um so what we put in two different types of proposals um they both have the exact same effect here in Pel, but I'll just so I'll describe them

briefly. Durham, I'm sorry. Yeah, I've been going around [laughter] a lot in Durham. Um but they have the same basic effect here. So but I'll I'll describe them briefly. one one project we call the main clean power connection would establish a 345,000 volt AC substation and this is this is that particular project but all the same corridor so we would build a substation up here in far northern Franklin County um and then we offered with different uh generation partners three different levels of generation a smaller wind project that would be built up in far northern uh Franklin county. Uh a combination that would include wind and solar and storage which would include some of the old uh the old over the radar over the horizon radar site in Moscow. Um and then a third larger uh offering that would include wind from hydro from Quebec, Canadian wind. So so this is this would be an uh AC alternating current line starting from

just inside the Canadian border cross through our new corridor. we would pick up our existing corridor right by Moxy Pond. Um that's the that's a corridor that uh Walter Wyman bought in the 1930s when he was developing power up in the in the KBEC River and then it would come down through the towns all the way to um what we call Laravey substation in Lewon. So that line would come to Lewon and that would be a 345,000 volt line and it would stop at our substation in Lewon. That's all an AC project. It's all within the US. Our energy partners on the other side are Nextera and there so a Canadian wind company. Um and it would so it would be primarily US energy. That is one offering because and when you looked at the if you look at the RFP in Canada it's not exactly it looks like it was written by a committee. So um in some sense it looks like they would like to have uh wind or solar which has

certain you know obviously environmental qualities. Um the the um the other aspect of it is that it's not dispatchable. It's not firm. Um so obviously if the wind's not blowing, if the sun's not shining, it's not available. Um but but it is an offer to them. The second project we call the New England clean uh power clean energy connect and that that is different in in two primary respects. That would be a DC line that would run again from Lewon up through the exact same corridor right to the Quebec border and it would meet a DC line from Hydro Quebec. Um and that

would be that would offer two two different blends or two different offers. One would be Hydro Quebec would give 100% hydro energy into the line or a second offer in which it would be primarily uh hydro complemented with a a smaller portion of wind. But either way, it would be a firm delivery in terms of it's just like having a natural gas plant. When you need it, it's there. Um, we think that that really fits well with what Massachusetts wants because their primary concern is the volatility of natural gas and scarcity, especially in winter or or in times of peak demand. Um, so there's a lot of discussion in there in the RFP about meeting, you know, our energy needs at these critical times when gas becomes scarce. Um, and that's where a DC line to Canada really provides, uh, you know, exactly what they're looking for. So that project the in in both cases though that project includes work beyond that single line that's

about 145 milei line [clears throat] and in both cases it would involve rebuilding two two transmission lines that come through your town. [snorts] Um we have there's a 345,000 volt line that was built fairly recently under the main power liability program and then there are two smaller lines just to the east of it. Um those are what we call section 62 and 64 and those lines would simply

be taken out and replaced with 115 lines the same voltage but with single poles. Um the purpose of the work is based on system studies. They would not be adequate to manage the load in the event of a failure of some other component on our system once we plug in this new supply. So it's simply upgrading the rate with upgrading basically those lines. But the most efficient way to do it is to take them out and build new. Um so so it wouldn't it doesn't call for expanding the co the corridor. It doesn't call for adding new lines in the town. It simply means we would take out the H frames and build a new line in its place. Most likely we would build one, take the old one out of service, build a new one, take the second one out of service. Um it's about five miles of line in your town. Um so what's in it for Maine? Because that's important. Um because obviously it has an impact in all of these communities.

[clears throat] Um the the sort of five different benefits that that affect Maine and also the region. Probably the most important one is that when you inject that amount uh 1,200 megawatts of capacity into the into the New England grid and that amount of of clean energy into the New England grid is going to suppress prices in the future because it's going to be knocking natural gas, primarily natural gas, out of the bidding for gas supply for the next 20 years. It's a 20-year contract. Um, what that means is that future prices will be lower than they would be absent this project being built. And that for New England on a New England basis, it's about $3.9 billion over the 20 years of the contract. Since we're part of the the main the New England market, the same price suppression happens in Maine. And it the the effect for Maine consumers is about $45 million a year for the next 20 years. Those those are in future lower

prices. Doesn't mean your bill goes down. It just means um you know that that energy charge will be that much lower going into the future. Uh secondly for Maine um is because it's going to be the the construction is entirely in Maine uh for our project. It will be jobs. Um you know we would look to start the project probably in late 19 uh 2019

and finish in 2022. It's about a four-year, four to five year construction period. Average construction each year is about 1,700 jobs. Um they're not necessarily new jobs, but they would, you know, like any contractor, every job is a new job.

Um during the peak, the you know, the project will peak that it'll be almost 33 or 3,400 jobs during the peak year. And primarily it's going to be in Androsco, Somerset, and Franklin counties. We do have a a a piece of the work will be over in eastern um the eastern part of our system a 26 mile line from Windsor to Wisconsin but other than that all of the con all the construction is essentially in this part of the state. So there's long-term energy energy price savings. There's short-term jobs four to five years. Um the added investment obviously the towns will tax and our estimate sort of rough estimate is it's about $18 million a year in new tax revenue for the host communities and you're one of them. So if you look at the core you have today it's about five miles it will be new plant in that. So it'll raise the value there. Um uh it will make our system more reliable when you make this kind of

investment and create more redundancy in the system mains mains and the region's grid is more reliable. Uh and then fundamentally we'll have cleaner air um you know we're in the same market we're in the same grid and we're breathing the same the same air. Uh so Maine gets a lot out of it and um what we put into it is the the community impact of the footprint and then after that we don't pay it. there's no cost to main rate payers. Um, this is a contract that the New England utilities would sign for their customers. Um, and you know, it's we're not taking advantage of anybody. This is a decision that they want to buy this energy. They've gone out and through a very competitive process, they have all of these offers to choose from.

This is the Massachusetts Massachusetts consumers. So, does that is this like almost uh analogous to like to a water rights issue where you've got all the power coming through that line is like owned by Massachusetts. Yeah, that's right. That's right. They're buying it. But the reality is no matter what, when you put energy onto the grid,

it's there for everybody. You know, it does it's not like it leaves Maine. It just energizes the regional grid and those consumers buy it. Um, and there's a chance they'll select nobody if they just if they get sticker shock or nothing seems to work for them in so in which case this project wouldn't be built and if we're not selected it wouldn't be built. But if they if they if they choose any project and hopefully it's ours, they're accepting the costs. So we're not taking advantage of anyone. This is what they wanted to buy and they would buy it. But for Maine it has no it has no cost.

So this only happens if they select your That's right. That's right. Um so the selection as I mentioned is is in January. We um we're our project is further behind than some of the competitors. Some of the projects if you've ever follow the industry and I can understand if you don't but uh the there's a project called Northern Pass that's trying to go through the White Mountains. You know they've been trying to permit that for seven years. They're not there. You know, frankly, I think there's people are betting whether they'll make it or not. Um, there's a company called TDI that is building a line all the way down a submarine cable would go under Lake Champlain all the way down into southern southern Vermont and New Hampshire and then swing across under roads to tie into the New England grid. Um, and that project is fully fully permitted and they actually have contractors ready to sign. They just need a they need to find

someone to buy the the power. Um, so we're behind and as the evaluation committees look at the projects, you know, there is a timeline. They want people to be able to deliver by 2022. Um, so we've continued to move the project ahead since July. Uh, we held a series of public meetings which were required before we made our filings to the state D. We've held uh we did those. We've had publicformational meetings in Windsor, in Lewon, and up in Bingham. We have now filed all of our state permits

um to the D. We have filed all of our permits to the Army Corps. We have filed for what's called a certificate of public convenience and necessity with the public utilities commission in Maine. We filed for presidential permit because it goes internationally across the border. Um so at this point we have filed all of our state and federal permits. Um, and actually just Friday, we got a a welcome letter from the D saying that they had accepted our application as complete for processing, which is a a threshold for us. They start at 185day clock.

Um, so we we're looking at most likely wrapping up our permitting, presuming the project goes ahead by uh mid 2019, 2018, late 2018, early 2019. Um, so [clears throat] when we so we're doing everything we can to demonstrate that this is a viable project. And as we look at the the the criteria, it really comes down in our mind to three different things that they that these selection committees will look at. First is price. Um, you know, they're they're representing all of their consumers and they have to deliver a reasonable price. We know what our project costs. We've not shared that with anyone because um and we're not sure but at the end of the at the end of the process if there comes down a you know a a last last and best offer we know what we've bid and a lot of our competitors don't certainly the numbers are all visible to the judges but we haven't shared that number but what we do know is the northern pass

project is 1.6 billion uh the TDI project is about 1.6 to 1.8 8 billion. The submarine cable from New Brunswick to Boston is two billion. And we know that our number is hundreds of billions of hundreds of millions of dollars less than any of those. And it's because it's a shorter line. We're building in our corridor. We're building in places that we know we can get the project built. We're also using the purchasing power of our parent companies, Aventan Grid in the US and Ubidola globally to source some of the components. So we know that we are going to really crush it on price. Um secondly, they want to know it's a viable project or not because there are frankly projects that are not much more than a line on a napkin. You know, people don't have the corridor rights. They don't have uh the wherewithal to get it built. They can't get it permitted. Um our project we believe is eminently buildable and

permittable, which too permittable especially is a bad word, but it's the one we have to use. Um you know, we know where we're building. we're building in our backyard. Uh we know the regulation. We know the process. We've selected a route that uses either existing corridor or a new green field in an area that we believe is going to be easy to build. So we can point to this and say this is a project that we can build um you know get approved and build. And then the third thing they want to know is can the company do it? Um some of the competitors are people that have never built a project at all, never operated a utility, never built a project. We just built the main power liability program which came through town here. That was a $ 1.4 billion dollar project. That was a much more complex project. We finished it on time and under budget. We're the only competitor in this that can say that we have completed a project of that

scale and complexity on time and and on budget in New England. Um, so when they look at us, they're going to recognize that we have technical expertise, we have the resources, we have the immediate verifiable, tangible experience, uh, to prove it. So, we think we have a really strong chance. Um, what we're doing now, apart from meeting with boards like this, so that if you hear questions from neighbors, because we, you know, we've notified the neighbors, you I want you to know what we're doing and why. Um, and then secondly, we're asking towns to offer a letter of support or provide a letter of support. What our, you know, our our job now is to have people in Massachusetts learn more about our company and about our project generally, just increase the awareness of it and then also demonstrate to the evaluation committees that we are making progress and that we're going to be able to catch up and

surpass any of the projects that that seemingly are further ahead. Um, so we've met with a lot of communities, host communities. U, they've provided letters. I don't know, we've got at least a dozen letters now from Wisconsin and Alna and and Bingham and Moscow. And don't I don't want to I can't I won't get them all right. Right.

But um and it and it's just a brief letter saying CMP has been a longtime service provider. CMP's been a good neighbor. Um, we, you know, we've experienced a project done by CMP and and we would welcome a project of this nature, uh, as good for Maine and good for our community if it could be built. Um, we could provide a draft letter for you, email, a draft letter that you could then mark up. Um, and and so that's my ask. Uh, and if you need to discuss it or whatever, that's fine. This would not obviously in any way short change your, you know, any, you know, there's no commitment. this there would obviously we'd have to go through the normal permitting process and I at this point I don't know exactly what the permits permit process would be at the local level here in Windham. Um so it wouldn't commit you to anything. It wouldn't mean that we could run off and build a project without coming back and

and meeting all your ordinances. But that's something that we're we we want to demonstrate to Massachusetts that Maine would welcome this project, that they see the benefits, uh see the local benefits, understand the community impact, and and would consider it still a good thing for your town and and for the state. So, so that's our ask and and I'd love to answer questions if you

Well, it wasn't like you asked for $100,000 tonight. Yeah. Right. [laughter] Well, actually, there were two things. Yeah. Yeah. Right. So, no. Rich, did you have any questions? No, not all really. Um, What? No, I'm I'm good at this time. I've tried to take it all in. I'll have to let it roll through the computer. I got

Yeah. Few gigabytes that are up in there. Just one thing I'd add because one of the one of the objections that we have run into is um there parts parts of Maine people in Maine that don't and don't embrace wind construction. They don't want to see wind. Um when we were when where we're building uh up in Bingham, we had a lot of folks come from the Moose Lake area. There's a lot of strong um resistance to having wind built on the ridge, the Somerset Somerset wind project up there. Um there

is a project NRG owns they that they're now the owner of it. They put in their own proposal uh into this into the RFP as one of the proposals. Although they then said they would connect into our grid if we built our line, the MCPC, but they're not part of our bid. Um we looked at that project. We didn't want frankly didn't want them as a partner because of that. the wind that we're proposing or that Next would propose is right up against the Canadian border um and in a very remote part of the state and we think it's going to have it's less problematic from a a public response perspective. And to give an example of how remote that area is, from the time we cross the border, um, we don't cross a public road until we hit 2011, just west of the forks, and that's 40 miles from the border. So,

are you counting the uh the major paper company roads as No, no, those are private roads. So, the first public road is when you is 40 miles from the border. So that the area where the wind is is very remote. So can you orient me a little bit on where that is? I mean like in reference to like uh

oh Alagash and St. John River and stuff like that. Oh yeah, sure. That's that's that's quite a ways up here. Um let's see. Rain, let's see. Mos uh Baxter is probably in here. The Moose Head Lake area is in this area. Okay. Um the um uh Rangely is is right about here. Uh let's see. This is Jackman. Jackman crossing is north of this. So 2011 comes up through Moscow and out to Jackman right about up here. So south of south south of Jackman and Coburn Gore is I think this little note right there.

Okay. That that's all right, sir. Outside of the outside of the wind opposition. Yeah. that you're you're as far as the impact on our community. There's a ton of pros. What's is there any cause? What would what what would people be upset about by having this? What would be the cause?

Good question. One one couple things come to mind. One thing in particular is that the the structures that are out there today are H what we call H frames. So the the conductors are horizontal. you know, there's two two verticals with a horizontal and the conductors are strung horizontally.

In order to create more room in the corridor and and to work in that corridor because it's getting adjusted, we're going to use monopoles. So, it'll be single poles so that the conductors are going to be the lower conductor will be on one side and then the next conductor going up and then the one above that. So while those structures are probably in the range of 50 45 to 55 feet, these monopoles will be in the 75 to 80 foot range. So um to the extent

that if you can't see if it's below the tree line today and but just below it from some particular viewpoint, it you know there's going to be an extra 25 or 30 feet of height. So there's there's an objection. The is it the entire corridor in Durham or just portions of it?

It's the whole corridor. The whole corridor. So that goes from Okay. goes all the way ends up goes ends up going through Brunswick. Brunswick. Wow. No, this the it's 5 miles through Durham. So it crosses um it crosses by

the end of um Bower Bower Road, Bowen Road, Bowen Road, Boow Hill Road, Bow Hill Extension, Stackpole Road. That's right. Yeah. Stackpole Road and then across the Auburn Powell Road. So it's that west side. There's another quarter that comes that like from Brunswick across and probably meets that. We're not talking about that one.

No. No. This is this runs north south on the west side of town. Okay. So when you go to a stronger field like that like his area is pretty pretty residential area. Is there a I know it's cleaner energy. Is there more EMFs? Is there anything from an environmental standpoint from the people on the ground per se?

Um there shouldn't be uh you know EMF is a question that comes up. um for the the reason we have to rebuild these lines is so that in the event because when when you inject a large amount this is like building a natural gas plant in Lewon I mean this is like building a 1200 megawatt plant right in Lewon the effect is that's where it's injected into the into the system

when you make that kind of addition into any transmission system a boat system you have to study what would happen to the whole grid if any other component broke down. So for instance, there's a line the the line that we built through town here, the 345 volt line under normal operation that will just that that will flow on that line. You have to you have to model and say what would happen if that line failed. If that line failed then um the

electricity is going to find its way around through everything else that's there. So it would drop down to the 115 lo part of our system, the 115,000 volt, and then it would run down through those two sections that we want to rebuild. In that event, they have they would have a higher load on them. So that would change the EMF levels. Um, but that's only in in the event of a of a major failure on another component, and it would be for the period of time that that component is is failed. So the only time the EMF levels are affected is during failure. There's no increasing EMFs by adding this massive

on the on the period of time when those at 115s are would [clears throat] be low the 115 load would increase when they were under failure. Okay. The the the load on the 345 there'll be times when there's more load on that. So theoretically the the EMF would be higher on that.

Well, that's my concern. You're talking about a lot of power here to say that there's going to be no more further EMF generated seems a little I would think you guys would know that. No well we haven't done the studies yet that those studies are in process now

irregardless of studies. I mean you're juicing that much more power. Don't you think it's just to assume? I mean I'm I'm kind of ignorant to this that it would generate more EMFs or am I crazy on that? Um it it it would depend on where the load is coming from today. Okay. because the load that flows through there today may be coming down from New Brunswick.

Sure. Um on already on the grid and so the so the load is going to be the same. Now it's simply coming from a different source. So until we study it, I don't I don't I don't really want to say would that study be part of the process before approvals are given.

Oh yes. Okay. Oh yeah, that study will go to the I think that answer my question. Thank you. I I've heard these windmills the wind power. Um, I've never been by one, but I have some friends of mine that been up north and [clears throat] particular limits right underneath them

and they say you can't you can't even talk to each other because you can't hear. So, how how much noise was that? Will that put out these new ones? Mhm. Is it going to be the same idea as that? Um, you know, I'm not a I'm not a wind farm developer. I mean, part of our company does develop them. Uh that's definitely when you site them one of the one of the considerations just in terms of where they are in lo in in relation to other uses other homes. Uh they look for remote places. So I suspect that if you're near those those turbines when they're running you you'd hear them. Um I don't know you know those those wind farms will have to go through their own sight a separate sighting process and the state obviously has its standards. Uh, I wouldn't say you're not going to hear them, but I don't know who's out there to hear them, and I don't know how far away they are.

Um, but that's and that's for the main clean power connection. Obviously, that's the AC project. With the DC project, there's no wind associated with it. Well, I wouldn't hear it at my house anyways, but yeah. No, I I think uh you at your house, there'd be a lot more problem. If you could hear them from there, everybody would have a problem. if a wind turbine falls in the woods and there's nobody [laughter] there.

But from this other line that comes through, you don't you're not going to be people ain't going to be calling us saying, "What's that loud buzzing or something that they're picking up in the middle of the night?" No. Basis or something like that.

Most of there's a 345 line and and most of the time if you go out in that corridor, if you're going to hear a line making any noise, it's a 345. And and if anybody's been out there, you hear that that buzz. And then and depending on the humidity, if it's really moist or misty, you hear a crackling and a buzz. The 345 lines are the only ones you usually are most likely to hear. A 115 line, the the other two that we're replacing. on in some rare instances you might hear a little bit of it, but we don't, you know, with all of our neighbors and all of our miles, the only time people talk about hearing a power line, it's it's a 345. So So that's already there. This is not This is

And I've heard that it's not huge, but it's just a little small buzz. Yeah. Right. And by the time you you know, if the wind is blowing, you don't hear By the time you get much beyond the edge of the corridor, you don't hear it.

Um and if the air is very dry, you won't hear it. But these are existing lines, so we're just replacing them. Um, so it's not likely to be a new source of of noise. Okay. Um, I might suggest depending see how the how the board members feel that to have you go ahead and and send our town administrator um a couple of the sample letters or whatever. Yeah.

And then maybe um uh maybe Ruth could draft something up and we could review it as a full board. not at our next meeting because it's the abbreviated one, but one after that and then and then we can talk about if we want to sign the letter and if we did, we'd have one ready to roll. So,

okay. Yeah, sure. Well, I I'll send you from some of the other towns so you can see what other towns have said because what what what we will do is that as we periodically refresh our filing, um we would just attach it to the new filing and say here, you know, here are the three things that have happened since we last updated you and here are letters from, you know, the chamber of commerce and three different towns that have since uh offered their support for the project.

Yeah. Also kind of noise folks. Have you had any other further opposition from towns? Uh not people supported your project. Um most of the towns have been very supportive. Uh there's one part of the project that that you know we we have sort of a one area where we have a series of um sort of environmental concerns that we have to work our way through and that's actually up around the forks. Um there sort of this 120 mile stretch that we across the Appalachian Trail and anytime you cross the Appalachian Trail there's a concern.

Sure. But we're actually using an existing corridor next to an existing line. So So you're already crossing the trail at that point. Yeah. Um that doesn't matter. You know that we'll still have to address. [laughter] Yeah. Um and then from there you go north along Moxy Pond.

Sure. Now you're in an existing corridor. You're building next to an existing line. Um but we, you know, we consider that a sensitive area. You know, the view from the pond back to the corridor. And if we're if the pole poles are taller, how much taller? You know, can we keep them below the tree line? Uh then from there you cross the Moxy stream which this is not near Moxy Falls. It's above the falls but it's a beautiful wild stream and then we have to cross over the Kbec Gorge or under KBC Gorge.

We're trying to figure out how to do that. Um and then we go out and wrap around the shoulder of Coburn Mountain [clears throat] which is popular with snowmoilers. So that's about a 20 mile stretch from Coburn Mountain to the AT. And we're working we're working with rafters and we're working with members of the community to say what are the what are what are the things that we can do to mitigate to avoid the impact and then to the extent there's an impact what do we what can we do to mitigate it um but we are looking at going under the KBEC river which would be a very expensive proposition but um the rafters feel really strongly about the river and uh you know the view and they they're concerned about having a set of power lines go over So that's the area that you know more than anything you know we're trying to you know really scratch our heads and and and find things to address. Invariably when we start a

project like this you know we're going to find you know a neighbor who you know some parts of the corridor we have to clear do additional clearing. We actually own all the land and and when we go and start clearing corridor sometime we find people weren't sure where the boundary is and we find a swing set or or a garden or hopefully you know you know hopefully it's not a garage or a house you know [laughter] it happens. Um so we'll bump up against individuals along the way uh hope you know and for the most part they're encroaching into our corridor in in every case

but we we work around that and and usually resolve those. But I actually have one more technical question for you. I'll demonstrate my ignorance of electrical engineering here, but do taller uh towers with more powerful lines present any interference with cell phone technology?

No. No, that's not going to be a problem. Okay. Nope. Does it help it? [laughter] Well, I mean, actually, you know, we have a lot of repeaters and stuff on our on your I would think you would repeat off of those. On our polls.

Okay. All right. I want to make sure there wasn't some uh Okay, great. Thank you very much for your time. And I'll send we'll send a letter along and um and some samples so you can see what other towns have said. Y sounds great.

Really appreciate it. Thank you. the agenda. Um we have a young man uh in our town, Hunter How, who uh as part of his um quest for Eagle Scout rank and his um is Eagle Scout uh project that uh did a lot of work on um the War Memorial

uh park uh walkway and a couple of flag poles and the project uh came out fantastic. And we wanted to uh thank Hunter and congratulate him on the completion of his project and uh offer him this uh certificate of appreciation uh presented in recognition of outstanding performance and dedication to Hunter How for your outstanding community volunteer efforts with regard to the war memorial walkway project. So thank you very much.

Thank you sir. All right. [applause] book. I have this final report here that needs to be signed and answer any questions if you need to answer. Okay. Did you guys have any questions? I mean, I didn't I did read through his book, but I didn't have any.

Yeah, I walked over and looked at Well, we we all saw you when you were doing it, too. And if I remember right, it was a couple of the hotter days that we had uh this summer and and uh we got to call out your dad, too. He was over there uh schleing bricks or whatever. So, [laughter]

right here on the page. Okay. We had hot days this summer. Couple couple. [laughter] I know. We didn't have much rain. No. Just fill my pool up every couple seconds. It seemed like No, I just That's not fun. D Well, I took care of that problem.

Yeah, I know. You say that's the best day. The day you put it in. Although she keeps saying maybe we shouldn't have. [laughter] Begin a new one. It sounds like buddy. Actually, uh there was a lot of great Thank you. I think Hunter raised a lot of money on this, too, on his own. So, it saved.

Yeah, he raised um $975. Good work, man. Congratulations. The whole the town's expense was less than less than $300, right? Yeah. So, outstanding. Thank you. Thanks, guys. Have a good night. [clears throat] Okay, next we uh we have Paul first

joining us tonight. Go on up and have a seat, Paul. So he's third. Great. Yeah. Right. [laughter] So, uh just to to kind of set the context for this a little bit, last uh at our town meeting last uh April, um a lot of citizens,

Paul among them, were asking some really legitimate questions about our um capital uh expenses and our plans and we're looking for information that on um you know, replacement schedules and things of that sort. Um, and it it really kind of brought shone some light on the fact that we don't have a uh what I would call comprehensive uh capital improvement program. I think we didn't have it at that meeting, but you know, like the fire chief does have a replacement schedule of his own and public works has one, but um we didn't have a uh comprehensive long-term focused plan to um to present to the town. And so we uh kind of demonstrated the need to perhaps look at uh we asked Paul to come and tell us what would a a CIP process or or um capital improvement program potentially look like because we're we're at the ground floor of this. So Paul, former town manager uh in New Gloucester, um who's managed these

processes before, agreed to come in and kind of give us a presentation on what's entailed and answer some questions and um and he let us know that he's we can't we can ask him, but he's not going to be the leader of the CIP

committee. So [laughter] some good communication. Yeah, exactly. Staff and the chair. That's great to see. So please uh I was getting ready to make a motion. Yeah. Right. I know, right? Can't we override something? Not completely giving up. Paul's been very uh gracious and and you know, I I've asked him several questions about things already and I know Ruth, you know, um taps his knowledge quite often. So, we're uh we're lucky to have you in town. So,

Oh, yeah. And uh I can als I should also take this opportunity to say thank you to the board for allowing Ruth to come to New Gloucester and this was probably I don't know seven or eight months ago to substitute for Charlene Meyers when she was down stock car racing in North Carolina.

We had no one to register vehicles. So good. You know this is what other towns do of course is they help each other. Yeah. So I'm I'm no longer in that position but I'm certainly happy to help where I can. Yeah. Thank you very much. So,

so why don't we uh start at the beginning if you give us an overview of Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. what it looks like. And I will say I you know I wasn't sure exactly what you folks were looking for this evening. So I didn't prepare a presentation as such but I put together a memo for you

just a one pager to kind of outline for you um what CIP at least as I'm familiar with it looks like. And uh you know my experience with CIP was uh for about 5 years as town planner uh you know I participated in the CIP process in New Gloucester from the perspective of department head and then as town manager for you know I think four four rounds I was you know in the the manager position. So um but you know there there's I don't think there's a lot of rocket science to it. I think I I don't think there's that much variation honestly.

Um so I put together this memo and I I think the new Gloucester template is a fairly good one because it's pretty uh tried and tested. They've been doing it for 20 plus years and it's worked for them. Uh at the moment I'll say they

have no bond debt. Uh ex you know that is probably not in reflection of their special town meeting last night where heard they got they got a big they got a big project on the horizon but at the moment they have no bond debt and they have a uh a very very healthy undesated fund. So they're in a a financial position that I think many other towns would like to like to be in and this process seems to work for them. So, um, you know, why CIP?

Um, it really CIP does a number of different things for you that are important. Um, you know, you've got during budget time, you've got a a lot of department, you got a lot of competing priorities or you got a lot of competing projects and you have to prioritize those and you have to be thinking long term and that's really difficult to do um when you're just looking at this year to year. And that's really why you need a plan. You know, you need a plan to sort this out and also see so you're able to save year to year, save for these individual projects and plan for them. because you know as you know by the time uh you fulfill the uh the the the requirements for running town hall and all you know public works and fire and all those things and paving there's not a lot left over

so um it's it's important to plan and then the other piece of it that I think you can't underestimate is building community support for the expenditures because just through the process This basically people learn about the projects uh because you know this is a series of meetings that are held by this committee by CIP committee and they really flesh them out with regard to are there additional expenses for example associated with a particular project um are what's the need for the project you know talk tell us department head about the need for the project um and and of course they have to submit an application ahead of time to the town manager. There are these different kind of layers of vetting. But through this process, the public becomes more knowledgeable about the project. So when they get to town meeting, it's not just, you know, the budget committee and the selectman. You got this whole other

committee out there and hopefully people, you know, the project has been pretty well vetted and hopefully, you know, you're pretty well you're pretty much ready to go. Do you think that uh do you typically see the the CIP committee as as a separate entity from the budget committee?

Yes. Yeah. Okay. It certainly is a new cluster then and that's my experience and I think there's value to that too having that be a separate entity. Okay. Because you know it also it's a chunk of work. um going through the budget. I I don't know how many times your budget committee meets and exactly how your budget process works. Whether you guys do your budget first or the budget committee does their budget first or whether you guys are doing your budgets at the same time, I I I don't know. I'm not familiar with that. Um but the [clears throat] bottom line is it's a it's a sizable chunk of work here and I think there's some value to that having that independence

between committees. That's that's what I think. Now that said, there's a lot of cross-pollination. So, you know, there's cross-pollination. Uh, typically you'd have a budget one or two uh budget uh committee representatives on the committee and you'd also have a selectman's representative. So, um you know, ideal committee, you've got some you've got cross-pollination there and representatives from

from the other boards. Okay. Um, so I think that, you know, it the process it seems to work and that's why everyone is doing it. That's why everyone in southern Maine is doing it. I don't know if you go further north, I'm sure that, you know, you don't find the same level of uh capacity and in a lot of smaller communities, you just can't do it. But if you look at the surrounding towns, uh, everyone's doing it. Uh, even Poel I understand has some type of CIP process.

So, um, you know, I I think think I think it does work and from my experience it does work. How you set up the program and I think this is where I could probably be the most helpful is in the setup. It's just [clears throat] kind of assisting with some guidance on the setup. Um it's fairly simple really kind of the biggest nut to crack and um I think you know I should say first off don't expect this to be done by town meeting. Don't expect to be go to town meeting with a whole CI with ranked projects from a through a CIP process. Now if you could go to town meeting and have a policy your CIP policy all you know complete

you mean for this first year? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Now that'd be a great goal. Yeah. Yeah. But you won't this year you won't be in a position you wouldn't be in a position to have you know to have implemented this. Right. Right.

Um but you could get a good [clears throat] start. So uh the first step would be able to would be to create your CIP policy and you know for example in New Gloucester they have their policy is they call it their handbook and um it's fairly detailed you know but

it's at the same time it's fairly boilerplate you know there's there's no reason in my opinion to do a lot of reinventing of the wheel in this kind you know, pro in this type of project, pick a new Gloucester and maybe two or three other samples, look at them and then you can put together a policy really here in no time, I think. Yep. And the policy also includes some uh basic information about like you know everything from scoring to the process steps to the the process steps and includes like you know how the projects will be scored by the committee and those kinds of things. So, it's got a fairly good level of detail there. And that'll help keep you, I found, that's really helpful. That's really helpful for the committee because when they get into the nitty-gritty of this, they have somewhere to look in terms of aha, okay, the handbook says this, this is what we need to be doing. Um, but

you know, so there's a fair level of detail, but that detail is already there in these other handbooks. It's fairly boilerplate. I think you can borrow it from other communities. Um, so that's really the first step is creating this policy at the same time. Now, what New Gloucester did is New Gloucester appended their CIP program to their uh to their comp plan. So, it's basically an an uh an appendix of their

comp plan. It's part of their comp plan. Mhm. Now, you know, the great thing about that is they have a it's really set in stone in terms of the, you know, the legal foundation. The bad thing about that is you want to change anything in the policy, you have to go through a comp plan revision process, which means like I think it's like a 60day public notice and it's fairly there's a lot of requirements to amend your comp plan. So, um, you may want to check with the town attorney with regard to first of all, this policy, your CIP policy. Does

it need to be uh approved by your legislative body or is it something the selecting can just approve? Okay, I think that's really kind of your first question. And you know, I think you really want to start off on the right foot here and you want there to be a good

a strong uh legal foundation for these decisions. And um so the question is does the town attorney feel like this needs to be approved by the legislative body or not? Okay, I think that's a good question. So um after you created the policy you know you develop your some of your the mechanics related to just you know the forms you know making sure for example you have a form you have the you just developed the form templates

that's easy and I provided for you some samples yep from new gloucester the the form templates are generally easy there's the request form um there and then there are the replacement schedules. Okay. Um and there's the five-year plan.

Y that's pretty much those are like the three templates that you need. Um and you know if anyone wants if Ruth would like help with that, I'm happy to assist. Um but that's something that is uh you know can can be done very quickly.

Okay. Yeah. Uh [clears throat and cough] so and then you basically uh you know then it's time to establish your committee and once you've you've got your approved policy and you've got your forms together um you know you can appoint your committee and you can start your process. part of the policy. You know, I'd recommend having in that policy some type of rough schedule

for the different steps for that process and the different steps and um you know then then you'll be ready to get going. Now, you know, typically how this process works, and I I outline this a bit in the memo, but the department heads submit their requests annually along with their revised uh replacement schedules to the administrator or manager and for review.

And then the manager, and I didn't put this in there, but then the the next step is really that the department heads meet with the administrator or the manager, and they sit down, and it's kind of like the the first pass. And it's kind of like the the manager's opportunity to say, um, you know, I don't think that maybe this is a really good year for that, for this reason or that reason. Mhm.

Um, and I think it's going to be really tough to sell or tell me about how you you got your number. Mhm. You know, how did you get your number? Um, I see here that you haven't included uh the cost of annual certification of this piece of equipment or something like is there any type of annual certification?

Do we have to do this? is um is there a law? Is is DP telling us, you know, we have to buy the street sweeper or is there some type of requirement or is this just something, you know, is this a need or is it a want, right?

So, you know, the manager gets to start kind of fl fleshing that out whether it's a need or a want. And that sometimes is challenging because you know sometimes you know I know I've had department heads that they want to do it anyway [laughter] even though it's kind of a crazy idea they want to take it forward you know and it's and you know sometimes it can be hard to say no but you know I I won't get into that um other than to say that uh you know everybody kind of finds their own path through that challenge. Mhm.

So next step is the uh uh manager revises the five-year plan. So you take those requests and you assemble them all. And the requests are they come in two types. Uh basically they might be a request to for a future project that is in going to take place in three or four years that's on a schedule. Uh it's a you know [cough] piece of apparatus the fire department wants to buy. Okay. And it's on the replacement schedule as it's coming up in uh you know 3 years or something like that. So they ask for they're asking for a request for their reserve this year for the amount of X. Okay. So that could be that's a reserve request. The other type of request is really it's like a project request for a project that you're going to do this coming year.

You want to take money out. So, you know, you want to take money out of your account, out of your reserve account or for whatever to buy a dump truck or to buy a fire truck or whatever it may be. So, two types of requests. So, um, again, the next step, what the manager does is, uh, the manager correlates all of these requests into this five-year plan. And basically what the five-year plan shows is it shows the um the projects

and the reserves. and it shows, you know, the account numbers, um, what the item is, the priority. Okay, so you know, interesting how looking at this five-year plan, most of them are priority one, right? Um but the estimated cost, the account balance, the year, it kind of provides a summary, an overview of the projects and by whether it's a reserve or whether it's a you know someone asking to take money out for a uh for an actual project that's going to be implemented that next year. So, and then it also says whether I

believe whether they're rated or not. Not rated. Yeah. You see, for example, capital improvements or reserves on this one are split into not rated and and ones that are rated are below. That's kind of a subtlety and you know that depends on how you put together your policy. But for example, you know, this policy has language in it that says if you don't change your plan every year, you know, if you don't change your plan,

then um you can the committee doesn't have to rate it, you know, it automatically goes in. You don't get rated, but you automatically rise to the top. So um you know that honestly it see it very rarely are department heads able to do that because the costs of things change so much yeartoear

but there are provisions that you know you can kind of you can get around the rating process on some projects. Uh but anyway that's a detail we don't really have to go into other than to say that you know that's it's there. Um, so manager puts together the five-year plan. Then the manager comes to the selectman with the requests and the request applications, the replacement schedules, and the five-year plan. And then the selectman get kind of their first glimpse at this. So what's going on here? And this is typically, you know, something on the order of maybe like we're talking six, seven months before town meeting. Okay? like six months roughly before town meeting. You guys get your view of this and um you have the ability to say well you know what you know why are we doing this project you know is it realistic to build a uh you know uh uh secondary

egress out of the basement of the library. You know like why are we doing this? Does this make sense? Or is there another option? Is there another way of getting this done? Uh typically department heads are present, managers present, you get to have a little bit of dialogue about these projects uh um and ask questions.

And you know, you can also if you want to be heavy-handed, you can say at that stage, you could say no. You know, we don't want to see that this at this point. Uh, I think typically what I've more often seen is they'll kind of let the process play out, but you know, you can certainly say, you know, no, we we don't want that. We don't want to move that on because we feel strongly there's another way to do this. So, uh, we're not we're not going to accept that application. You have the ability to do that.

[clears throat] So after that's done, after it's been vetted, then the the the staff puts together uh what's called the CIP notebook. And basically this is the background information that the committee needs to make their decision. Um and it's probably I don't know if you guys what you do for budget books for the budget committee and for the selectmen, but it's a similar type of thing. It just contains all the background material that the committee is going to need to make a decision. And for example, new Gloucester. This is the notebook from our last CIP process.

And [clears throat and cough] it includes everything from uh the meeting schedule to the committee members to um the handbook that has the rules, the five-year plan, a subac account report, the pavement management plan, the vehicle replacement schedules, in this case the balance of the tiff account, uh and then for each department their requests. So, you know, it's kind of like it's a reference. Everything's there. It's it's great because at the end of the uh the program, you put it on your shelf and you have the whole process is pretty much documented

as you get revised requests in, you know, you put you file them in the notebook and the whole process is documented and it goes on the shelf or in the vault. So um [clears throat] then you're ready to meet with your committee members and um you know typically uh the the the whole idea of the committee meetings is that it's an opportunity for the committee members to meet with the department heads basically and ask the questions. So, um, and typically the way that it happens is committee members will ask a question like, um,

well, uh, let's see, instead of instead of getting a heavy rescue, could you get a light rescue? M um in other words, tell me, give me an equipment list for what's going to be carried on the new rescue. Okay, can you give us an equipment list for what's going to be carried on the new rescue? So, it's a this is the opportunity for them to really delve into the detail that sometimes honestly you guys don't have time to delve into.

Yep. So, they can kind of get into the nitty-gritty and and flesh this out. So and then um so you know they might meet with public works and with fire um and whoever else. So but I in this case probably you know public works and fire and uh then you know they come back a typical process for you know depending on how you like to structure it four meetings is probably all you need

at at the max you can probably do it in four meetings. Well, really five for the one because you need a meeting to accept the scores after they're scored. Okay. So, um probably in total it's five. So then, you know, they gather all their information and then the committee members all go off on their own and they score their applications based on uh based on set criteria based on set criteria that are provided in that CIP policy. And um uh

I I won't go back and try to fish some of them out at this point, but um I can provide some examples to you, but they have you know set criteria and they have to score their uh the projects, the individual projects and then and they have to have all their scores in and each project has like a score sheet. So they have to have their scores in to the person and and often it's rather than being a staff member, it's a committee member, you know, maybe it's the chair of the committee, someone like that uh who coales those scores into a summary sheet. Okay? And um basically translates all those scores into a ranking. So all those all those requests, all those project requests and reserve requests get ranked. And let's say you had uh you know 17 applications that year. So they'd be ranked from 1 to 17.

the you know the committee gets together one final time they accept the ranking and then that's passed on to the selectman and to the budget committee. Um and then you know how it has worked in how New Gloucester does it. The the budget committee in New Gloucester doesn't you typically make a recommendation on CIP. It's typically left to the selectman

and um the selectmen typically do it after they you know they wait they go through their operations budget. They go through the whole operations budget, you know, they kind of they look at paving and CIP together and they and they think about, okay, um, well, how far down this list can we go? And they look at each one of those items and let's say there are 12 of them. Okay, where are we going to draw the line? Are we going to draw the line at number six? Well, let's see. Maybe number um number five, we could give them less money because there's another way of doing this um project. You know, we think there's a a way to save a little money there. So, we're going to give them less. Okay? And then we're going to draw it at number seven instead. Um, I think one of the important principles is that you're not allowed or one of the the principles I found was very effective is you're not allowed to cherrypick. You're

not allowed to skip. So, you have to take the rankings as they are in terms of, you know, putting them on the warrant, actually putting them on the warrant for the voters to decide. Take the rankings as they are. So if you can only go to seven, you only go to seven but you can't fund nine. Okay. Um but what you where you can what you can do or what you know I think is fairly common is you can give people less money. If you think there's a reasonable way for them to otherwise do the project.

Yeah. Or if you want if it's a reserve account, you might just be putting less into reserve. Mhm. Is so is is a deposit into a reserve account is that typically listed among the priorities for that for a year like if it's ranked you know one through 12. Yeah.

Would one or more of those be not purchasing something but putting money into a reserve account? Right. So those let's say those 12 projects um uh you may have six you may have seven or eight of them that are reserve accounts and then you may have uh five that are actual projects only five that are actual projects.

Okay. Okay. So, you know, on some of those reserve accounts, you may decide, well, you know, we really want to be able to do this next project down on the list, so we're going to put a little less into reserve under, you know, whatever it is.

I gotcha. Okay. So, um, or maybe we think there's another way. Maybe we don't want to buy the zeroturn Kabota diesel mower. Maybe we want to buy something that's a little, you know, less money. Maybe there's another way to get that done or something like that. So, you know, you can kind of you can work with it that way, but I think the the piece of not skipping is really uh

that upholds the you know, kind of the commitment to the policy of the integ. Exactly. Um, separate warrant article, a town meeting, and then the uh, you know, the the voters get to decide. So the voters can cherrypick, but we don't put

That's right. [laughter] cherry. So we right you bet. Well, you know, the interesting thing that I found is that I don't think I can remember hardly a single occasion where a CIP item was voted down at town meeting because by the time you got there, you know, it had been hashed out so thoroughly. And part of the beauty of it is you get to town meeting, you've really got answers

because and it's not you don't have to it's not that whole burden isn't just on the selectman, but you've got the CIP committee members, right? Who kind of, you know, in a way they kind of have your back because they're the ones who really have to get up and say, well, why did we choose this,

right? And I think why did this rank so highly and what you know what were the questions that we asked and what were the answers that we got? It's not just the fire department asking for a fire truck or public works asking for a plow truck. It's other town members making a judgment, listening and recommending that yeah, we we should do this or no, we shouldn't do this.

That's right. I think that's a really good point. So it also takes some of that burden off of the department heads. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, last point I have here is just a note that in New Gloucester, for example, and and I think that many towns do this. They recognize, you know, look, we got to pave our roads.

So, what are we doing putting that in the CIP process? It doesn't really make a lot of sense. um you know, do we want to put this committee in the position of prioritizing roads? A lot of selectmen, I think, have decided no, we'd rather kind of hold that back for our control over that for ourselves

because it is so critical. And so what happens for uh paving is that the public, you know, you include in the CIP process the paving schedule. So everybody can see what's on the paving schedule for this year. What's going to be on the paving schedule in five years? You know, when does my road come up, you know, and their own

pieces of interest. Um but that the paving schedule, you know, you look at for the any given year, um those roads that are on the paving schedule for that year and the tonnage and the estimate of cost associated with those roads. Um, when you get through with the operations budget, then you're looking at that paving schedule and CIP kind of at the same time and you're figuring how far down can I go on the CIP list

and uh how far down can I or how many of those roads can I pave? How close can I get to keeping up with that paving schedule, which honestly almost no one is able to keep up with their paving schedule. Right. Right. So because it is just so darn expensive.

Yeah. So question on the paving schedule I had as I I wrote down several questions as I was reading through some of the stuff is in your experience do in terms of planning in a paving schedule do you typically make a distinction between what I would call normal maintenance paving like every 10 or 12 years whatever you you know you're going to repave a road and the rebuild

the rebuild right that that you might bond. So, how do you see those how do you see those pieces kind of playing off each other in this process? Well, you know, that's interesting because if you I don't think you're going to be able to the rebuilding of the roads. I think you're going to struggle uh getting really kind of feeding those into the CIP process,

right? And I think that you're going to find that there are still projects and I think you know the best you can plan plan it in and try to build up some savings for paving you know for regular paving for maintenance paving. Um and you may want to have some kind of you know you could have some kind of generic road reconstruction account.

You know have a generic road reconstruction account. You could have two accounts. You could have maintenance. You could have generic road reconstruction, but um the the problem is you get into projects sometimes that just blow the socks off off your budget no matter what you do

and you don't have any choice but to either dip into um you know some uh uh a tiff fund or or bond or bonded or something like that. Yeah. and to bring that off and as either you know a special town meeting type of project or as uh you know a regular town meeting separate warrant article.

All right. But that might be that might be your big your major road reconstruction or your uh public works garage. Yeah. That kind of thing. Big thing like that. Okay. nutshell really. Um so you know it's always a uh balance trying to find

uh figure out how to provide good governance without you know uh spending a reasonable amount of effort. Mhm. Spending a reasonable amount of effort and so you know you you want to try to find that balance of course um at [clears throat] the same time uh you know may maybe the time is coming for something like this.

Yeah maybe it is. And and uh it's it's a lot of money. It's a lot of money. And I think that where it pays off is just, you know, of course these are big projects. And not only are you when it's something gets agreed to a town meeting, not only are we uh agreeing to fund that purchase, but then next year it'll be on the replacement schedule for some time in the future,

right? So yeah, I guess you know quite a lot at stake really. Um but that that's pretty much all I've gotten and I'm happy to help in any way I can. Thank you very much. Um the uh you still it seems like you still have it's not all just even though you have a CIP process, you still have different reserve accounts for different like does fire department typically still have their own reserve account and does public works typically still have their own reserve account.

Exactly. Okay. And the town is putting you know voting to put whatever into each of those accounts based upon maybe what the replacement schedule shows a future need might be. Well, now the the way that that generally works is for example fire department there' be a reserve account for vehicles.

Yep. Okay. And so um you know and it would be associated with that vehicle replacement schedule and then you might have a separate reserve account for I don't know water holes for something like that. [clears throat] Mhm.

It's not you know for like you know digging water holes. Okay. Or something like that. or I you know I shouldn't say vehicles because I should probably say equipment and you know it includes um not only you know the the vehicles but it would also include it but it could also include

for example you know the uh SCBA self-contained breathing apparatus when you switch over to I don't know if we have the low pressure or the high pressure but you know a lot of this equipment gets bought on grants and then it like expires and it all expires at once and all of a sudden, you know, you need to buy $150,000 worth of, you know, breathing apparatus,

right? So, um, you know, you could you could widen that definition a little bit to include both vehicles and equipment. Yeah. Okay. And then do you have any thoughts on um currently the town like if there's un unexpended funds from the operational budgets of fire and public works those unexpended funds don't go back to the town undesated uh fund account. It goes into the reserve accounts for those departments. Do you have an opinion on whether that's a is that a common best practice or is that somewhat unusual or do you have an opinion on that?

I think it's probably somewhat unusual. Mhm. So, um yeah, you know, I I I'm not particularly a fan of that myself. Um I expect uh all my employees to uh you know really shop carefully and to follow the purchasing policy to get multiple quotes and to shop carefully

and that the that their budget be well thought out. Mhm. Um and then by the time that it gets through the budget committee that there's not a lot of extra left. Mhm. By the time it gets through both the select and the budget committee there's not a lot of extra left.

Right. Um, so, um, you know, I I I that they would possibly try to make their budgets a little higher, of course. Um, I I don't know. I I mean, I can see how it could potentially work either way, but I think it's a bit unconventional.

Okay. All right. Thank you. And you can always use past years histories of what they've asked for, what they've spent to see if they've actually patented that much. So that should kind of keep in line fairly well. You know, if you've got 10 years of history of, you know, asking for somewhat some of the same things or and their budget, you know, they asked for 5,000, they only spent 25 and they're still asking for five. Well, we know we can cut that back. So that history will help with help with some of that.

Yeah. Yeah. depends on whether you have the same, you know, how long it's been going on. Well, that's what I'm [laughter] saying. But if you've been watching it from year after year, you should be actually should be catching up every year so that it hasn't got that bad.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, I you know, I think the uh my experience has been that and I you know, I'm sure our department heads are all very careful in their spending and you know, I I of course I don't think there's any abuse or anything like that. I think abuse is pretty unlikely, but um

uh yeah, I mean you could you could do it either way. Um but uh but it is I think a little unconventional. It doesn't mean you have to change it. I mean you can Well, I don't if it works if you feel like it works. I mean sometimes when I've been in some

You guys know a lot better than I do. That's for sure. Yeah. It seems like sometimes we try to cut it so close. And you said it, you know, all of a sudden you got to dip into this fund because something way unexpected happened. And I try I look at it like I try to make sure that I got a little extra in there just in case. So I don't have to start stealing from Peter to pay for Paul cuz now we've opened up another can of worms. So because you got to put that back sometime.

So I I try to look at it that way. I don't want to I don't want to add 10,000 if if a thousand's going to work. But I think you always got to have you got to have the savings account just like you would at your house. Not necessarily savings account.

It's one thing though, Mark. Um it's Mark, right? Yes. So, uh what if for example something happens like they're going to in their budget is uh some type of you know um trading or some some type of or program that they're going to run which they decide or for some reason they're not able to run. So it's not that they're trying to save money but it just so happens that you know they're not able to to do it that year. And so there's this chunk of money that's left over and it's not because they have been been uh you know super conservative with their budget this year. It just so happens the money is not going to get spent because that thing is not going to happen this year.

So that then goes into their reserve account rather than going back into you know that the town's undesated fund. Now, this is the beauty of putting it back is that by doing this, you build up your undesated fund and you don't have to short-term borrow. It helps you build that up,

right? We typically in New Gloucester, we would put back somewhere between, you know, $150 to $300,000 a year. We put back and over time that really would build up. And um so that's going to be one of your biggest source for building up a a a healthy rainy day balance is putting unspent money back in.

Did you get pressure? um because it's been it was a pretty common practice in the town to the point where I think they in years past went too far and you know they pretty much tapped undesated funds as much as they could in a given year to reduce the tax rate in a given year for the community to the point now where our our undesated is probably uh it is significantly lower than than it should be

uh at this point it's a pretty easy cell because you can say The auditor told us no, we can't. Well, that's kind of what we're doing now. So, the auditor told us no, we can't because we have to have at least uh three or four months of operating funds. That's the bare minimum, you know, um at all times um to be able to run the show. Otherwise, we have to borrow and that costs money.

Yeah. So, and I think if you convey that to the public, they understand. Yeah. Yeah. because they understand it's gonna that it's going to come out of their pocket and I think and I think they have the last I think it's the last at least three years we haven't taken anything out of undesated to

yeah we've been trying to put it back we did it for so long it actually was said at the time you know if we can't keep doing this because at some point you got to stop and you have to put it back we got to that point so and they they do they seem to [snorts] understand it yeah

I think in my budgeting experience there's always been some give and play where you might take a little to help balance balance your butt to help stabilize the tax rate. It might take a little, but you know that um at the end of the year there's going to be some coming back,

but you see in your case it's only one way, right? So, you're only taking it out to help buffer the tax rate, but you need that, you know, that ability to bring it back in. Yeah. To Okay, do you have any questions? Fine. That was very informative. Thank you very much, Paul. I really appreciate you. Thank you question. And uh I'm sure we'll be taking you up on your offer to, you know, provide some consulting to help us get this going. My motion now or [laughter]

Thank you very much, Mr. Wayne. Sure. The policy. The policy. Yeah. Find my agenda here. Sure. Okay. the um the next thing on the agenda uh planning services. Um, I had uh sent a sample contract and and learn I've been learning doing a lot of research and learning a lot about planning services lately because um we struggled as a board for a long time about you know planner and CEO and what do we need for planning and whatever and and at least through the research I've done I've I've kind of come to the realization that you know planning and code enforcement are two very different skill sets very different backgrounds and it's it's not something that you can um really I think realistically expect a single person to to manage the way it needs to be managed. And I think I quite honestly I think we've been shortch changing the planning board for quite a while because they haven't had any sort

of planning resource. So anyway, um I I do I we should I think we should table this until the other two board members are here and we can talk about how we might want to approach Sure. planning services either. Um you know, there's some contracting opportunities out there. Um but I want to, you know, have the board talk and and see if that's something we want to uh um explore further and possibly include in our budget request for uh for 2018. Okay. Uh Ruth, are you close? Because the next thing on the agenda is town pole permit. Do you have the background on that, Calvin? Do you want to brief us on that?

There's a new house going on the Auburn panel road up the uh town line of Auburn and Dur and they just need a pole to get power up to their house. So just a roadside pole. Okay. Do we have to vote to approve that permit or is that something that you do as CEO?

It's not in the shoreland zone or anything. So, it's just a regular I think you guys just sign it. Don't you call in the electrical? This is different. This is a poll. Do they need an ement? Are they needing an easement? Is that why it's different?

They have a blanket ement through the town. They just need a I think the select board has to sign. I'm not going to stop people from getting power. [laughter] It's just the formality power. This is they read CMP requirements.

I I think I think we've done these before. Yeah, I think it's just a blank. Is it something we have to Sorry. Well, Ruth will have us sign it if we need to sign it. She has to just Okay. Um and the next one I think Tammy is going to give us some background on

Lronics real quick. Um [clears throat] there's two subscription services that are about to expire on the 20th, which is what Saturday. Um, and one of them is the via bit one, which is where you guys used to put your uh the videos up online. Um, and that's so when we go in there now, so people can watch old meetings from like 2 years ago. So that's still up and we have that subscription service, but since we've moved everything to town hall streams and I do have the ability and I've learned how to get whatever we want for meetings up there, whatever we want, I can probably go back is if I found VHS seats, I can convert and probably put those up on the town hall streams. But you know, right now what I've been getting up, we've got almost the full last year of meeting someone. So the thing was um I had met with telecommunications board and they had said potentially just let go of the the um video private streaming service um

since we have telecom streams, but didn't want to run it by you guys and then see with that one for so that's one of the subscription services. The other one is called Total Info and that actually goes on our news cable channel 13 and that those are the slides that come up throughout the day that show the weather um sports uh this big in history that kind of stuff. So it's really just like their filler kind of slides that go up on there and again telecommunications had talked about it. They thought there was a need to really just let it go. Um I was like well you know there are people you know probably some of the elder community or people that still tap into that channel and watch those and they could go to that for but how many people are really looking at the channel um and we could fill it in either more of our own slides uh telecommunications had talked about putting up you know more continual meetings just replaying

meetings like every you know what I mean on the channel on the channel over and over again so it be and I know how to change the [laughter] nobody's watching I'm going to need an increase in the royalty payment for right. So if we remove that total info and have that kind of filler for times that we're not broadcasting meetings or you know we have the regular slides that are going up. I mean I could create a lot more slides if I had a lot more things

content. Yeah. It's all about content, isn't it? That's really it. So it's like um my biggest thing was I'm I'm you know I'm thinking along the lines with the video streaming service definitely unless anybody can think of the need for us to keep that total info I think is 950 a year and we were paying basically to keep that going with just those slides which can't until we can find I mean

I can get some content from CCAT which is the cable but I'm still so new to this you know what I mean? So, so that's it. The two subscription services later and so on the VIA bit, I think the first one you mentioned that is uh so without if we let that go, what what would be on the site in terms of uh meeting videos?

It's using town halls, right? But I mean, how like how far back would we go? go back a year, but we can put the disclaimer that if anybody wanted to see a video um they can contact us for a copy of it cuz we have everything or we can post I mean if there's an outcry for town meeting from six years ago I can get that up you know what I mean [laughter] something like that

sometimes it's just entertaining the movies on [laughter] you guys that's entertainment you know as a select or whoever wanted to say hey we want to at least have two years up I could probably push those up to town hall streams or however you want to do it.

I think it would go away. Yeah, I would think so. I was thinking 6 months. I think so, too. I think as long as there's the the option that citizens if for some reason they need to go back, you know, whatever 2 years, 3 years, and say I need to see because it has come up. I mean it's usually almost in the context maybe more so planning board than some other meetings but as long as we have access to that I don't think it needs to be a direct link on the web page but I think going back I going back a year or as Rich said even six months

I would think yeah that's I think I might even put a form up that says if you want you know give me you know here's the form of date everything official and we'll mail you a copy of the video I think that's fine [laughter]

and as far as the the total info. Um, I think my sense is to let that go. Um, you I can't How far How long before that actually expires? By Saturday. Saturday. Oh, see if we had more time. You could uh you could have snuck a slide in there to say if you're actually reading this,

let us know. Let us know if you'd be upset if it went away. If we let it go, and they really were, we'll find out. They'll call us, right? Yeah. They'll let us know. So I I don't know if you need an us to actually vote on that or

you run it by and see what your sense was too because like you said, you know, talking telecommunications, they rarely meet. We were all kind of more entwined. You guys are more entwined with the dayto-day and the citizens and talking to them. And if you had a sense that they're really into this day in history or they go there every day for their daily weather or something, you know.

What was what was the cost of the slides again? I I missed the total info is 950 a year and I believe the VIT was 19 something$1970 or something like that for the whole year. So a,000 bucks for the total info. I just Okay.

So it's about $10 a month. Yeah. Just another thing to almost [laughter] another public tracking that we have something that we're advertising now that we'll still have the regular information slides would still be there. So we'd still have

yeah like vaccinate your dog or whatever it is boosters has this program it's only the filler the weather and things that the this day in history. If you guys have ideas for me, send them and I'll make a slide to put up there and we can put in

Just don't violate any copyright rules. We'll pay, you know, [laughter] consensus is we're okay with Yeah. We need a motion for that or just let them go or So moved. You good? So moved. Second. Let them go. All right. We're all in favor. So just in case you need a vote. Now,

uh Ruth, while you were out of the room, we kind of skipped over the town pole permit. Is there anything we need? Calvin kind of briefed us on it. Is there anything we need to sign or vote? You're going to have to sign it. But

standard for somebody to get their power. Correct. It's nothing. Yeah, they just give them to us. Not giving easement until we cross Kevin's property. [laughter] You're going to make me move my pool. That was a pretty thorough presentation.

A little more thorough than I was expecting. Yeah, it was. Actually, both of them were probably more thorough than I was really expecting. I mean, there's I think we do some of the things that Paul was talking about, but maybe on a different scale.

Yeah. Yeah. Like I think we have some of the pieces like the replacement schedules and stuff, but it's bringing them all together in context with each other and prioritizing across and having a long-term plan I I think would add value, but we'll talk more about that when the other guys I think it just makes good business sense. Yeah, I mean it's just

it's a respons resources, right? So, okay. Uh 7G oath for historic district commission. Yep. We have um request to uh put Paige Athetherton on the historic district commission. We will need a motion for that. I'll make a motion to put Paige on the historic district commission.

I would second that. All in favor? All right. Um, and then I've done up two oaths for um, our new code enforcement officer, Robert Forest. Um, and I've done them I've done them separately. There's one that's got code enforcement, building inspector, and electrical inspector on it. And then I have one that just has the licensed plumbing inspector. And the reason I did it this way is because we have to get a waiver to appoint him

as licensed plumbing inspector. Why? Because you you have to have the training for the licensed plumbing inspector before you can be appointed. Oh, I thought he had plumbing. I thought he had plumbing and building but didn't have the legal.

No, he has he has building and energy. Energy. Okay, that's the other one. Okay. So, he doesn't have the plumbing. So, Calvin can keep doing our plumbing for now. And I think maybe until I find out whether um Mr. Lawson's going to wave that or not. Maybe the next meeting we'll bring it back, but we should definitely do this one tonight where we um uh give him code enforcement, building inspector, and electrical inspector. So, I'll need a motion for that.

So, moved. Second. All in favor? Oops. We're going to pick him up and bring him in for his first DAY [laughter] in a limo. I think we should hire a limo to bring him in. the door so we can't get out. [laughter] I think responsible for picking him up at his house.

chief, but I don't see No, he had actually asked to be on the schedule. he was hoping to make it tonight because he wanted to talk to you guys about um uh an RFP that went out for Lisbon for EMA services, but um he doesn't seem very concerned about it, but he wanted to let you guys know about it. And then um the other thing is he was under the impression that we were going to actually talk about this tonight, but unless you guys want to discuss it or have any issues with it,

what did he what did he ask? I noticed that the original draft said you needed to live within 20 mi and now it says you need to live within 5 miles. Well, I talked to him a while. Um, he wants he he thinks that and and I agree with him that somebody needs to be a part of the community. The reason we had done 20 miles, Diana and I had talked about it. We had done 20 miles to begin with, but the must live or be willing to move within 5 miles is what the volunteers are required to do. Um, and so that's why we used that. I I have concerns about that because I it could dramatically narrow our pool.

I think so, too. Which 20 m, could you? Yeah, 20 mi is pretty far. 5 miles you could live just about anywhere around here. Um, you know, [snorts] you couldn't you couldn't live in Brunswick. Well, on my end of town, you could bar you'd barely be into Brunswick.

Well, it's 5 miles from the boundaries of this the town. It's not 5 miles from the fire station. Oh, all right. How about within a half hour of the town? Do we have to put a mileage? Faster drive. Yeah, he's he's he's a fire chief. He's going to put his

lights on. Lights on. I mean, I mean, most most I I got that 30 minutes cuz that's what most, you know, surgeons, medical professionals, they have to live within 30 minutes of the So, is this out yet? Is this posted yet?

Yeah, but I've edited a couple times so we can re-edit it again. Yeah, we might because you know I well I I appreciate the chief's input but but we shouldn't be making any changes to anything just based on his input. It should go through the board um first. Um

so I don't know. I hate I I'm I'm hesitant to stay with that five mile tight but yeah I am too. I mean, do we maybe do we leave it a little more generic and we say, you know, expect to, you know, live within close proximity and be able to respond in a timely manner like leave it

reasonable. Reasonable. Yeah. Half hour and then we can define that based upon your situation. 20 minutes to put you in the free. So that's a half hour. So that that's not that far away. So I mean it takes me 30 that's more than 5 miles. Well

30 minutes is more than 5 miles from the boundary I suppose. Raven pond. Raven pond. Yeah, she was a random pond 31. Sorry, I live 21 miles. I live 21 miles away and it takes me 36 minutes to get here. Yeah, faster. [laughter]

Yeah. Yeah. So, we can get you some lights. That's 20 miles and that's just over a half hour. So, and that's in good weather. Yeah. Yeah. I I'd like to see the the maximum amount of candidates we can get. Yeah. I' I'd rather I'd rather not. My suggestion would be to not put a mileage on it and go with some sort of, you know, close proximity

within reason. You know, within a reason, you know, within a and we'll be able to make that judge when we get Exactly. Let's We have the right to Yeah, I know. You guys live right. We don't want to overly tighten the filter before we even have a pool of candidates.

I think that's reason. So, must live or be willing to move within a reasonable proximity of the town of Durham's boundaries? Yeah, that's ambiguous enough. Yeah. Don't we have a uh something like that? Yeah. Just keep it ambiguous. I don't want to set make it you got to be X or you

Was there anything Were there any other significant changes? Miles like don't we have something with the with the town crew if we call them and they have to respond within Yeah. They have to be here within an hour. Yeah, I think that's so

Yeah. I mean obviously I'd like to see the fire chief quicker than that by I was going in trouble but but I just I know we have something similar. So for your guys. Yeah. Yeah. I think we gota, you know, we got to trust the board to use its best judgment on like if if somebody from Prescy applies and, you know, that's probably not it doesn't want to move [laughter] and that's probably not going to cut it, right? So,

I mean, the difference is you kind of know ahead of time that the map's saying it's going to start at this. So, you get that call ahead of time. This one here, it's a almost Whoops, there it is. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe this is the G.

Yeah. So, this time's up. All right. Yeah, we're going to keep moving. Yeah, we'll keep moving and then we can get back to them if we have to. So, yeah, I think with that change, it looked fine. I'll fix that one. Okay. I sent I just forwarded you an email from the panel CIP committee.

Oh. So, I just sent it to you so you could I think you would you'd be amazed if you went to one of their meetings, which is coming right up. I sent you the email you see. Okay. If you went to one of their meetings, I think you'd be astonished to be [laughter]

in a good way or a bad way. In a good way. Okay. All right. They're they're they're all retired bankers and financial people and it's just it's it's amazing. Okay. All right. Good. That's good to know. That'd be a good benchmark. Thanks.

Yeah. So, um, these are the, uh, PO has a lot of money. volunteers. I'm sure they'd be happy to show you how they do it. So, okay. Hill Road, replaced all the driveway cullets, replaced the cross pipes in the road, and uh cut a zillion trees, widen the road out. Looks like a actual neighborhood again. Other than the potholes in the road, we uh we're waiting for Krooker is I keep getting

uh answers of next week and next week and next week. So now he's at next week, but uh we're waiting for an answer from what happened last week cuz I got a call saying, "Oh, by the way, we can't do liquid asphalt injection anymore." That the last date for that is uh September 15th. So they didn't realize that at the time. So we switched to cement. Uh they've got an opening, I think, for the end of next week. We're waiting for uh Quebec Cement or Cement Quebec, whichever. I think it's Cement Quebec to get back to us. So hopefully I'll have an answer on that tomorrow. when they are going to go in there next week in the next week and grind it up and put the cement injection or the cement reclamation. Um crew was in class all day today at the Durham inviting

stuff. Got some interesting information from them about crosswalks and things. winter sands. I have the sheets Blackstone Pit in Durham. on uh the Big Sky Lane off from Route 9 where the campground is. Yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah.

KOA campground. So, I've looked at the sand. It looks good. Um so, I guess um these were the these were the concealed bids that we opened. Ruth and I opened the meeting. [clears throat] Is there you said you looked at the sand. It looks good. I mean, is there are there different grades of road sand or is there

Well, I put I put a speck out. I mean, basically, I grab it and feel it and if it feels like sandpaper, I like it. And if it feels like flour, I don't like it. And so, if it's either dead sand or I mean, yeah, so was it sandpaper or flour? Did you like it?

Well, I don't like flour. So, I like gritty, sharp sand. I like almost like a leech pad sand. Good granular draining sand. Uh uh. And Blackstone seemed to uh I mean cop hit some very good I mean uh Portland Sand and Gravel had some very good uh sand but when we put it out to bid they went up on their price. So I mean we paid five bucks a yard for it and we go pick it up and that's their asking price but when they had them put a bid in they went up $2. So that's what happens when you put stuff out the bid. Sometimes it backfires actually works against you. So

do you usually pick it up or have it delivered? Pick it up. We didn't do any last year because I took it right out of the budget because we uh didn't we just don't use the volume of sand that we used to in years past. So,

y and so do you are you [clears throat] is that Blackstoneone? Is that your recommendation that we go? I'm I'm happy with the sand. I've got samples of that and I like it. So, that's the lowest bitter jin Durham to Durham taxpayer. So,

yeah. Yeah. are you going to be having them deliver? No, we'll pick it up. But at at a $150 more a yard, is it is it really worth your time to pick it up? Cuz that's a hell of a number for a buck and a half. Buck and half. It's it's a close haul for us. And sometimes if we get it delivered, they want to jam us and then we because we need to be processing it, mixing it with salt as we're putting it in. And we can slow or increase the pace at our leisure. But um um if they are hauling it, we could

We can't haul it for a buck and a half though. Probably not. I mean, it's Why would we Why wouldn't we? I mean, it's [laughter] it's it's only two, three miles down the road from the Can we haul it for a buck and a half?

Well, probably not. 12 yard load is, you know, you probably a payroll will cover that, but it's the idea of being able to control when and how. I mean, you can schedule a delivery, right? Just schedule for one day for x amount of sand to come in. Well, he said he'd want to have the trucks. He said he used to he said uh he'd want to have it scheduled so that the truck

That's what I mean. You could schedule it and have one day. I just if for a $150 for it to drop off at his fuel and his guy and his truck, I don't know why we're even thinking about going to pick up sand. Yeah. Uh I guess just the idea that we'd be able to control the whole operation and not have to.

We still could by scheduling it. Well, yeah. Yeah. We need one truck. If we need another truck, I can just add one. Or maybe we could do a mixture. I can have him deliver what he wants, and if I need more, I can go get it. Or if I want to slow him down, then if I need to pick it back up, I can adjust that.

Okay. Okay. What do you What do you have there to What do you have for to mix it with? You have a loader. And we have a loader and salt and we have to mix 100 pounds of salt or a ton of We have to make piles and then we have to go around and put sprinkles of salt on it.

Take to mix them a load. hauling somewhat steady, we can it's a two or three day process usually, but we can make it happen. But Well, that's what I mean. Does it take like an hour to to mix a wheel load or three wheel loads or two hours or it's

it's it's the loader keeping up with the truck. Sometimes if they get ahead of them, they will just slow down a bit and then we'll pick it back up or if the trucks get so they're out of sequence and they're not rotating. They're all coming in at the same time and we'll I mean it does seem like a pretty pretty cheap tip.

It is for that, you know, to have them deliver. We'll shoot for the we'll shoot for the delivered at 750 and if it's not working, we can always add a truck of our own. Yeah, I think I don't hear either way. I just that if you can get it delivered, there's no way you and a guy in a truck and our truck's expense can get done. It's working that way.

Yeah. I mean, it is 2 or 3 miles down the road. It's pretty close. Um I mean, it's pretty close, but for 750. Yeah. I mean, it's not a bad price. I mean, I You use just just used Well, you probably ain't got room for two rigs in there anyway, so you probably just going to use the logo. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, that could go either way, but it does seem like a pretty good deal to have them delivered. Yeah. 750. I I'm Well, it's just I mean I mean, if it's 3 miles down the road, I mean, it's a $150. I mean, that's that's 50 cents a mile. You can't put a guy in a truck and operate those vehicles with gas for 50 cents a mile.

If he's Yeah. If he's willing to do it for 750, we'll take it. Yeah. Well, that's that's I'm okay. I I don't we don't have to I don't think we have to set like just pick tonight say you must pick up or you must deliver. I I I'm okay leaving it to your discretion. You know, I mean, as a department head, you're charged with using the town resources as efficiently as you can. you know, there might be some other reason that you you're trying to articulate as to why you think it might be worth picking it up yourself for maybe it's saving you something on some other. I'm I'm fine letting you use your discretion. But with but knowing that, hey, that 750 is a pretty good deal. And if it can make if if it makes sense and we can do it, we should, you know, be good to do it

as long as we can keep up with him and he's not just saying the truck's got to roll right now, right now. And if I say slow down, he goes, "Okay, well, we're good. We're going to pull off, go to the job, then we went back for a week." I just so I mean that's where you that's work out with with the vendor, right?

And I guess if you're going to go that way, make sure that if that's the way it starts and then it does get to be too much pressure and you want to go back to this, he's willing to go back and do it for this. Oh yeah. No, he'll Yeah, he'll go with I'll live with that.

Yeah. I'm assuming that I'm assuming that you don't have to pick a road for the season at the beginning, right? I mean, you can you can say, "Oh, I'm going to I'm going to pick up a load this time, but next time I need you to deliver it because of something, whatever. One of my trucks is broken or whatever."

Yep. Yeah. No, I I just No, that makes sense. I disagree in terms of if it's 750, rather than spending a guy down there and standing there waiting cuz the same thing applies. The guy could sit there for a half an hour waiting for this truck to get loaded up.

Yeah, I agree. It seems like it's so far out that you could plan it that you could get this thing squared away for 750. I I I hear your point. I just don't know if it's our role to micromanage the department head that the 750 is it is it is cheap I mean for a buck for a buck and a half I mean that's that's not even try it make try it and see how it works make you know

what else we got buddy make your decision yeah if he gets ahead of us we'll just so him down do we need to vote on which I probably would yeah okay so uh I would move that we accept the Albert Blackstone Jr. excavation uh bid for winter sand.

Second. All in favor. here. We got uh so the road striping painting was done from the Brunswick Town line to the Pel Town line. [clears throat] Um we've got a couple of uh emails on that that uh people are pretty happy about that.

Yep. Um, so we installed the orange reflective warning signs on the stop ahead and the stop signs along that corridor. Did you Did you take a look at that? Um, we kind of talked about uh the stop ahead sign if you're coming from the runaround pond towards Route 9. That that stop ahead sign seems very close and virtually on top of that that stop sign because by the time you see that, you're also seeing the stop sign versus having it be backed up a bit. Have you

take a look at that? Yeah. Uh, we're going to go over that tomorrow. Actually, I'm picking up the paint machine from Freeport. We're going to go over that. There is a uh there is a formula. It's I believe it's 450 ft if the speed limit's 45 and 350. I there is a

yeah I just know there's a lot most of the other ones coming from the other directions are much further away from the stop sign. But I I I too far back. They'll forget what that No, I know. But I mean I guess I guess I want it to be back. It seems like on that particular one that it's not back far enough to really be doing any good.

It's close enough, you know. But okay, I'll check that tomorrow when we do the uh when we do the stenciling. So, is that Oh, is that you doing the stop that the that painting tomorrow or this week or what? Yeah, we got to go pick the machine up from Freeport. We're using their machine again and they just it's been in the shops. They just got it rebuilt and

so we'll be working on that tomorrow. And are you doing that just at the Route 9 intersection or are you doing that at all three intersections across down through? Yeah. Okay, great. Um, [clears throat] them. They finished staining the deck. Yeah, it went like 10 years with no stain. So, we last year we started putting some on just gone. So, this year we've got it. So, I think we've I think we've saved it. So,

I think we got a good one. This year we really put it on good. So, hopefully that's all set for a few years. uh Milbridge, Mil New Pawn Road Bridge. Uh people stopped and said the bridge uh guardrail was falling over. So we went down and uh put some new timbers and bolts and fix that. Uh the shouldering for Cedar Pond and all uh Cedar Pond and Stackpole. Um they still haven't done that yet. We went down and did the driveways, but uh they're still looking at uh October. So it's they've got half a month left here.

Okay. We're running out of Well, the road painting was September and we got that done in October. So, I don't Well, I'll get a call into them and I'll see what I hear back from them tomorrow on that. And uh uh trucks look like they're in good shape for winter operations.

How about plow drivers? Are you you good? You fully staffed for plow drivers? Uh, no. But we'll we'll work on getting a uh uh I'll end up plowing again probably this year. But well, I've got some like last year they came they come in the the on call drivers.

Mhm. We'll start coming in now that the construction people are laying off and so I got some feelers out there and Okay. If not, I'll be in the plow truck. So Kevin, you don't want me driving a plow truck. [laughter] I guarantee you. So that's uh that's all I got from this question.

Thank you. kind of Yeah, we skipped over uh wasn't here, but it was watching from home. I didn't want to leave Ruth holding the bag. [clears throat] [laughter] We kind of went over. Someone does watch our channel. Yeah. Right. Yeah. All right.

[clears throat] love to see the Neielson rating. [laughter] what you want me to speak to is some of the recommendations I made on the job posting or in regard I think the only one we talked about was the was the distance. Uh she said there any she didn't mention any other recommendations but the the re the that the candidate needs to live within 5 miles. We thought that was too restrictive and that we wanted to leave it a bit more open uh than that and a little bit so that the board can weigh that among several other factors when we start interviewing candidates.

Yeah, it uh well I guess my thought process with it with it was that we require our members, our volunteer members, members of the department, not the PDM staffing to be within 5 miles of the town's boundaries. In reading the job posting, one of the things you listed was that you wanted them visible in the community, actively participating. Um, and I'm assuming you want them at least on major emergency responses and stuff. And with a 20 mile radius, it uh 20 m at even if you're 60 m an hour is 20 minutes away. So, it uh um it really

[clears throat] isn't conducive to that piece of it. The two kind of conflict each other. Yep. And it's just uh again and I think a lot of that all that will be weighed when we interview candidates, but we didn't want to overly restrict it right up front and weed out candidates. [clears throat] So if

but many of my recommendations were to to kind of weed through because one of the things you're going to find is if you pop that on me after you tell me 20 miles in there, don't tell me after if if I'm the applicant. That's why we took the miles off it and we said we need to be

It did say 20 miles before. It did. Yeah. So we But we didn't go back to that. [clears throat] We left it as like proximity or something like that. Adam good. But if you tell me 20 miles up front. No, we took the mile thing right off

cuz the other side of it is that you know some of my recommendations were based on well hey if you ask for this it doesn't exclude me from applying even if I'm here and you'll still get those applicants that we'll put in for the position. Yeah.

Hoping that well maybe this will work out so it's okay. Yep. So so most of my stuff was focused on um Some of some of the expectations are actually really still in my job description. Uh and and some of the things we should be looking towards. Some hoping I'm assuming you're hoping you'll get somebody that's going to do the job for five or 10 years. Um and if that in fact is the case then some of those things should be definitely should be expectations. So

yeah y yeah the [clears throat] only thing the other things that chief had had uh put in there was um within one year of employment they should be um AVOC or EVOC certified which means they can drive the trucks. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. If you think expectations are going to be that they're going to drive um because to actually get them lined up for a class, you could wait six six months to a year just to get them to line up line up with a class. So if they're supposed to be per se the driver/ EMS provider dead time along with the PDM staff and stuff it you definitely want them preference would be that they come in with that because [clears throat] yeah it otherwise we can't do the driver training program or put them behind the wheel until they have that or I shouldn't say we

you're a citizen of the town so it's going to You're chief too, right? So, yeah. I [clears throat] I can't put any of my members behind the wheel. And you know, in the EVOC, the it it's very confusing because it the Department of Labor accepts CDL. Mania won't accept CDL. So, everything I do has to be either EVOC or AVOC. It uh

Okay, that that sounds reasonable to me. Anyway, and the other one was the fire officer cert certification, but that makes sense, too. Yeah, fire officer certification. That was the other one. Yeah, it I I know in my job descriptions it mentions main fire chief's uh um chief officer certification, but I I would recommend that it even if they don't have it coming in, they you establish expectations that they're going to get their at least their fire officer certification. We actually have probably somewhere in the vicinity of six or seven members that have fire office certific certification. Um I think they're going to struggle if they're coming in from the outside and they don't come with close to the same credentials as many of the or some of the senior members have.

Yep. Okay. Did you And then the Lisbon the RFP Lisbon. Yeah. I got a and [clears throat] I this is really just an FYI because I don't want you to hear it in conversation but I got a uh Lisbon is I I am pretty sure in the same somewhat in the same boat that we were last year Lisbon EMS and

they're [clears throat] they're private. They're not fully municipal funded. They I think they do receive some support at least in the fact that they get free dispatching from the town of Lisbon. But Lisbon emergency is a private ambulance service maybe with some subsidies from the town but they can no longer make ends meet is what they've taken to the town of Lisbon. So I actually attended one meeting over there. They requested I attend um where we do mutual aid with them and stuff and but it it sounds like a very similar situation to what we were in is they can't get the staffing. In order to get the staffing, they need to pay for it. Because of the number of transports, they don't generate enough revenues to to cover the staffing costs and all the expenses and overhead. So, they they went to the town of Lisbon looking for subsidization for the staffing costs. In the meeting, they talked much about

many of the items like we talked about. You know, do we look at doing away with it? Do we put it out for contract? Do we um PDM staffing? Do we fund the PDM staffing? Do we look at doing some full-time [snorts] staffing and fund it? So, they pretty much did the same thing we did. So, I I've received an RFP. Kind of blew me away. We received the RFP, but for contracted ambulance

for us to provide contract. And that's not my suggestion that we should even attempt to do that because the capital costs and everything. And the bottom line is is we're in the boat we are because if we want this service, we need to subsidize it. They're in the boat they are because if they want that service, they need to subsidize it. So that in itself says it's not cost effective for us to give them a RFP, a contract proposal. Um

but I wanted to make sure I told you because I don't think we should give them anything. If you tell me we should, then I'll put it together. But I do not think we should give them anything. I don't think that's the route they want to go. I think this is their research to lay the foundation saying, "Well, no, here's what we've found. Here's what our options are. What do we want for a level of service and what are we willing to pay for that level of service?" Which is really the question that we faced a year ago and I'm sure we'll face

well still facing really, right? I mean, we're still facing because I last year the stop gap measure for a year. I'm sure we'll face it again at this town meeting is what do level do we want? What do we want for service and has it been effective and

and that that's why we've kept it all separate. But the one thing that I did want to throw it out the the reason I wanted to throw it out is one I wanted to make you aware so that you guys didn't get blindsided. But two, the other side of it is is you know and I'm just going to let them know over there that no it uh it's not cost effective for you. It's not cost effective for us. But the op other opportunity it does propose which I don't think would work merely because it is not just Lisbon. It is Lisbon and Bowden. If it was just the town of Lisbon, some type of cost sharing opportunity might work. But where it's Lisbon and Bowden, we're talking too large of a stretched out geographical area. So I I think they'd be better at off at looking at their thing, perhaps providing us mutual aid, them providing them mutual aid just like we have in the past. And I wanted to make sure you were aware of it. It's an opportunity.

I think your uh I think your instincts are right on. I don't think it's an opportunity we should be jumping at and I don't really think it's an opportunity. They want us to jump at doing their due diligence. Yes. Y Okay,

that was it. Great. Thank you very much. Thank you. Have a good evening. it's late, but I was at a different meeting. I just got some information that I regarding I'm [snorts] part of the historical society. Is it urgent that we discuss it tonight?

Sounds like it to me from what I heard over there about the Methodist church. We don't have anything about the Methodist church on our agenda. Well, I guess do I need Sure. Come on. Come on. Well, I'm Paula Erdman Party, the head of the

Yeah. historical society, as you know, and it just found out at our meeting that the town has decided they're going to sell the Methodist church. No. No. We we got somebody maybe we did inquire as a result of when we walked the site, right? that like we inquired with our lawyer like well what what would if the town wanted to sell it like what are there any constraints on us or whatever and basically we just got an opinion from the town lawyer that there are no we can we can we could sell the building for a dollar to you tomorrow if if we wanted to I did we get does the town have to approve the sale or is it just the selectment

in the conversation you and I had over at the when I said well give us some time and but I was in there today and they said, "Oh, no. The town has already decided to sell it and two people have been told that." Well, they're they're they're mistaken and they misheard something.

We we did get a legal opinion on on like, well, what what constraints are we under and what would the process have to be and but it's okay. So, there is no I had heard that you went over with Chris Claus and he's going to take care of selling it for you. main preservation. [laughter]

I I I did have a conversation with Christopher Clauss. Okay. And we talked about many things including things that we needed to do to the the um uh the Union Church. And we did discuss the Methodist church because I had some of the qu same questions that we had for the lawyer for Chris Clauss. He said that if we decided at some point to sell it, he could try and sell it with stipulations that the new owner would renovate it. and he would be more than willing to do that for the town if we ever decided that we wanted to sell it. There was no discussion of selling. I'm glad I left that meeting. It came right here.

I am too. Rumors would have been all over town very quickly. You guys are selling. That was probably that other fake Facebook channel that's connected to that. You know about all that fake news. There's a lot of fake news on there. I think you know makes me feel a lot better. I don't think there's I can't imagine a scenario where we we where we would even entertain selling it to anybody without going to you guys first.

Well, that was part of it is like I I really felt like why it wasn't historical society in any of this loop but because there is no there's no loop. [laughter] at that fake Facebook channel. If there's any of that, if you could, you know, you have my email address and and just email me.

Yeah. What you're thinking and you know how and because you know my on my agenda was, you know, okay, what do we got to do to secure these buildings for the winter? So I and I have the list from Chris Claus of what we need to do. So, but

I don't foresee I I guess you from our discussions and you guys jump in if I'm remembering things um not completely accurately, but I think our position right now on the old town hall is that status quo for the foreseeable future. We don't we don't really anticipate, you know. Yeah, I've had a I'm supposed to

I've got a list of I've got a list of things that Chris Claus you like prior I asked him give me a priority and there are some things that we should probably deal with. Yeah. Yeah. So, we might we need to maybe look at that and maybe go to the town with like is this something you want to invest money in?

Well, I mean the historical society has some money in the town coffers for that. So, you know, but I need and and I won't take your time now. I guess when you when you have a if if you have a a plan of how you want to spend of what you think needs to be done and how you want to spend that money, then we'll set up set up get you on the agenda here to talk about it and more.

Okay. You know, I had had a long conversation with Christopher Clauss and um and I had been waiting to hear from him again um to really have a conversation with you guys. Um one of the things that I asked him was who would come out and and do estimates on the work that needs to be done and he does that. Um, at the time that I talked to them, he was really busy. He said sometime in October. So, I probably need to call him back and see.

But he's done all that. We have that. We paid $300 for all that information for for a list of what needs to be done, but not the estimates that go along with the dollar. Well, he gave so so we paid for the site evaluation that he did on the churches,

right? He then g prioritized it for me just in August. He then gave me a list of contractors and foundation people that I need to that we need to get come out to get the three estimates so you guys can choose I guess who does the work.

I don't think he actually would come out and do Ben Love apparently had had a structural engineer there but that then he left the the different organizations he was part of. So we don't have that information but as I understand it we have to get like some foundation structural guy engineer type people to to tell us you know what has to happen

in terms of the foundation which is I think where we start but he I do have that list which I think you all have too because we have all that but I yeah so I so I was going to get like in the next couple of meet you I don't know I don't know what our meetings are off from the same time as yours. But anyway, I'm going to get on your agenda so that

so yeah, coordinate coordinate with Ruth on the, you know, okay, what exactly do we need to do as far and who do we call and then Ruth will when it's ready to come to the board for some sort of consideration, she'll get it on the agenda.

Okay. And as far as a Methodist church, I think um I do I don't know again I don't know if the if the letter from our town attorney answered the question of does it does the board have the ability or the right to to sell the property without a vote at town meeting or

my understanding is that it does because we have a warrant article on the warrant every year that allows the board to do with the real estate. Okay. What it it deems town real estate. Okay. So, so on the United Methodist Church, I guess, um,

at some point we'd probably need to figure out, you know, when and under what conditions you would want to, right, take take possession of that building. And and I guess I'd like to find out what it costs the town currently to I mean, the only cost of the town is insurance on the building, right?

Uh, I I don't know. I would defer to Ruth on Yeah. Yeah. And that's probably don't get taxed. We mow it, but I can't imagine. No, he doesn't mow it. Mowed by We don't do the one the Memphis. Oh, we don't. Okay. He should be doing it, but it's been done by Lois. That's what she said. Chesley has done it for the last 20 years since she's lived in the house next door.

Okay. Yeah. I thought we talked after the sitewalk though that that public works would because because I think at the time you weren't aware that the town actually owned that, right? And now that we do that, it should be on the schedule. And there was also talk of you get your crew going and trimming some branches back and stuff

clearing some of the trees that are falling on the building. Got some on the front porch, but we still haven't got to the ones on the roof. Okay. All right. If you I can put it on the list. Yeah. I mean, because it I mean, it's a town property and so

we got to do around the Union Church, too. Yeah. He does He does the Union Church. He mows it, but he doesn't. There's trees hanging on it. Yeah, you got And we have permission because Candy Dipus owns the property behind it and she doesn't have a problem with cutting the trees that are on her property that are hanging over.

Well, if it's hanging over our property, we don't need permission anyway. I understand how trees go, but but anyway, but it's good that we have that. Okay. And I'm glad we cleared this up because um Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We're Don't worry, we're

The town does have a new Facebook channel. I saw that a real one. Another one. Don't get on it. My uh my uh Well, no, I'm on that one. And that's Well, that's up to you. But I can tell you right now, it's mostly smut and untrue. So,

I have a I have a I have a cousin in Missouri who who actually was very impressed with the website. But I also want to give you this. So, this is we've cleaning out over there and we found these and this is from the 1989

bysentennial report. Oh goodness. It's got a very short history of Durham in here. And I know that um I'm not sure you guys are really up real up. I know you haven't read the stack pole book. So this is a much shorter version to read.

Thank you. So you know about the history of Durham talks about why Durham is what it is and why it needs to remain the same and the importance of those buildings. Do you want me to give them to the select for yourself and ask them to leave it? I'm gonna piss it on my tongue this time. [laughter]

You tell me what a stack pole is. It's a history book. Stack pole history book right there. What's a stack pole? Stack pole is the man who wrote it. I didn't know he lived up there. He's a very famous I don't know that he lived there either.

Ah, I'm not sure where he lived, but he wrote it in 19 in 1878 or so is the history of Durham was written written then. I've seen a stack pull wrote another town. I'm wondering what is a stack? I thought it might be an object. Isn't there some backlogs?

But it's a it's a very short read. It's got some old lots of nice pictures in it. And um thank you very much. And when I find the 1976 one that they wrote, I'll get you a copy of those, too. Okay. So, little time. Thank you very much. All right.

Thanks. Yeah. And let your crew know that we're not selling anything unless it's to you guys right now. We will keep the historical society. You have an email, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I had a long conversation with Linda the other day.

Not with me. But not with you. No, with Linda. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Linda was the one who said that. Yeah. No, we did talk about Okay. Yeah. Talk to you about what you want. Those cabinets. That lady who wanted you might be.

Thank you. All right. Thank you. All right. Thanks. Okay. So, um, upcoming meetings, uh, regular select meeting. I think you skipped out of town, didn't you? Oh, I did. [laughter] Sorry. And do you actually have something tonight? Cuz usually

usually you say, "I already said all my stuff." No, I have two things. The first thing is I just wanted to let you guys know that Congregational Church has donated $600 to our heating fund. So, wow. They do that lunch, you know, and they collect the money at the lunch and then every once in a while they donate it somewhere. And so they donated 600 to our heating fund.

Great. Um and then the other thing I wanted to talk to you guys about is our our copier is Okay. And um [laughter] and I have an opportunity to um change over our lease. So we lease that copier from Canon. Um, and what they want me to that the lease ends next October. And what they want me to do is they want me to um change the lease for another 5 years basically and get a new copier. And it basically comes out to the same price that we're paying now. It's a little more per month, but the copers are a lot less the copies are a lot less expensive. And we would be able to punch holes and staple. All done with the copier. So we'd be able to Yeah. actually do that kind of stuff.

So it corugates an iron. Yeah. Punch holes. Punch holes. Yeah. Punches holes. Yeah. Real holes in the in the thing. So um I I would like permission to go ahead with this. So moved. Second that. All in favor. Okay. So when do we get to deal with it?

I don't know. I'm going to have to call tomorrow. No, not tomorrow. Tomorrow they're putting the server in. We'll start with one thing at a time here. Pick that up along with the new pick officer up and grab the coffee machine [laughter] on the way back.

Okay, now I'm finished. Thank you. Okay. All right. Upcoming meetings. Uh, actually, we have an How come we don't have the Oh, there it is. We have an abbreviated selectman's meeting on October 31st where we're essentially just signing the warrant. There won't be any business on the agenda. Um,

we're scared because there's too many goblins. That's right. There's too many goblins and ghouls running around. So, we're we're going to We need to set up the No. No. Um, that's at 400 p.m. Uh, but it is a meeting of the selectman. So, we have to

it's public provide public notice. But if that's the meeting that people choose to attend, they're going to be really disappointed. [laughter] Um, then our regular meetings, which I would encourage you to hold out for, uh, November 14th at 6:30 p.m. and Tuesday, November 28th, also at 6:30 p.m. uh, here at the town hall. Um, and I should throw I'll throw in here that the comprehensive plan committee is meeting on October 25th at 6:30. It's a Wednesday. Uh, not our normal night. We've snuck in an extra meeting to get some extra work done. Um we're meeting that night. So

meet here. Here. Yep. Okay. Anything else? Okay. And I move we go into executive session pursuant to one MRSA 4056.