TranscriptPlanning Board Meeting ~ October 4, 2017

I would like to call this October 4th meeting of the plane board to order. We have a quorum with four members present. And we will start with the pledge of allegiance America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Tammy Quimby. Thank you so much for filling in on short notice. Um, also want to thank Jill Tor, who was our previous secretary, for all the work that she did. We will miss having her here every month. Uh, any amendments to the agenda? We have Mr. Baldwin here. Um we'll add you at new business after we talk about the ball fields. I have one addition that um the chairman

Kevin Nato of the comp plan wanted us to uh discuss a few things regarding the comp plan. I just want to add that to the end of the agenda. Okay, we'll do that after new business. 2017. I know you guys didn't get a chance to look at them before, but I did pass them out.

all of the findings and conclusions. I just have that separate document that you all have as well that you typed up. Yep. Oh, sorry. Minor. I don't think it's a substant. [laughter] I do know a FTH. Like the number first like

I'll change that. H just as I'm taking notes. Oh, John. John. Brian, [laughter] A motion to approve. Yeah, this is a good set of notes here. I'm not going to Yeah, oh, so I'm not going to vote on it on the notes. Okay. Even though they look very good. [laughter]

meeting minutes from September 6, 2017 with amendment to Mr. First, last name. use permit application for Durham Youth Baseball. And we had some new information that was sent out. A slight amount. Not as much as the hook I was hoping to get out, but

groundwater supply. And from D need to uh we have a meeting set for next week to meet with a guy who's going to help us with storm water. Okay. To go through that. So that we didn't get any of that taken care of yet. the landscaping we didn't get by hand.

questions? Just reading submitted all looks expected. applicant have more questions now that he's had more time to decompress after our late meeting? Anything else said? Um, not at the not at this time. There's no question. There was a lot of information thrown out and I think most of it made quite a bit of sense. So, it's just a matter of working through most of that.

that. So, I know one of the one of the abutters had questioned um putting up some gates or something like that and it's kind of a unfortunately and I I think hands are tied here too, but the way the ordinance is, you know, his concern was security, you know, having people parking in the parking lot late at night or whatever. Unfortunately, the the ordinances that have restrict the visibility of the parking area kind of go I mean, if it were more of an open parking lot, you wouldn't have those concerns, whereas we have to have all the landscaping buffering for the parking lot now.

And you know, he had mentioned putting up gates, and we haven't talked about it as a board. My personal opinion is I'm actually strongly opposed to putting up gates uh just bec because that gates are also going to cause issues for the abutters. Um my concerns on that is that if you put up gates we're limiting access to a townowned recreation field. I mean the goal is we want people to get there and use it when when they are using it. We don't want them parking on swamp road. I mean there were concerns about speeds and you know it's not the widest road. So all that together, you know, the gates don't make sense how I mean I know one of Butter had mentioned people getting on the field with four-wheelers and stuff and unfortunately the the fields themselves will be fenced off, but I don't think personally don't think it makes sense to limit access to the parking area so that people can't use it when they

should. We want to encourage use of it, not discourage use. Yeah. Yeah, I mean I think I think what'll help you is if you can work with your butters and if in the end you come in with a landscape plan that and a buffering plan that they like and

they maybe won't push as hard on some issues. But I think you know really the the piece is to try to make you know make it work for the community and your neighbors. So I I get it with gates. Gates are a pain. So, and we did go out um [clears throat] one of our board members is also a surveyor. He went out and reserveyed the the tree line. So, hopefully we can get a better sense of the buffering and hopefully move from there.

you know, specific requirement in our ordinance that says you have to secure it. We have specific requirements around buffering. Um the the unfortunate thing is, you know, if we could leave it open from the roadway, that would help alleviate his concerns of that being a desirable location for undesirable activities late at night.

over the hill. So can be find that balance where he's he's screened and Yep. Yeah. table this again? I mean, I think it continues. Do we table through or I I know we made it through like the first I think it was still the performance section you guys still had to go through as well,

right? We usually don't get in that until, you know, the application is deemed complete. Okay. And at that point, we could do a field walk. We could start processing it. So we usually don't really dive into the rest of the standard till you're complete. Um,

good to know. And you probably don't need to keep keep coming once a month until you're completely unless [laughter] you're just so you the goal is is to get this stuff moving. I I was disappointed that we had actually made a lot of steps prior to

the last planning board meeting and then just things just didn't get moving the way they were supposed to. So been there. [laughter] Mhm. So, uh, yeah, whenever some of that, you know, whenever that all of that comes in, you don't have to come back every month with with one new piece, you can kind of wait until

you have it all and then Okay. I don't know what the process is for getting back on the agenda, alerting 10 days prior to submit submitting the information. [clears throat] Do you need a motion to table it again or does this mean it'll be much shorter than last? [laughter]

that you need to have the incomplete items. Yes. So you'll bring those all back. Yeah. Yep. And I did get a a letter from or ask a waiver from IFW afterwards, but that was after the cut off for submitting it. Yeah, I have I have the whole action item list of stuff we needed to look at and

from there. Okay. Thank you very much. really. Mr. Baldwin from the uh performance standards of the findings [clears throat] and conclusions and I have made the changes requested on the subdivision plan. Mhm. to do but a couple of things are on changes on the plan itself. So the setback lines within the buffer zone on lot five having those removed I think was one

right they have been removed and then adding 17 I believe was the the discontinued county note on there, right? Yep, that's in there. And I actually added on 17 that we added the language that is used in the deeds whenever I have sold on that property which conveys the rights of that discontinued. You guys want to look at this plan to

Yeah. If there's one that shows the updates, I'd love to see this. If there's a plan that shows the revisions that we got, thank you. wanted a note that said that road was discontinued county road. So Mhm. Know which note that was?

Yeah, it's the last one. Number 17 is new. it must be paid when accordance with the ordinance is in effect at the time of each each additional dwelling. permit? No. When do you think you'll have that? I don't know. You know how the state works. I'm surprised we don't have it, but I called them today.

It's been what, two months? Yeah, they can be up to six months. Yeah, I was going to say expect I would expect three to four. It's been it's approved and they've given him the all the stuff on here, but they haven't written the permit. I don't understand how that works. But anyway,

Yep. Uh 22. Uh uh submit the gradation to the CE code CEO. Oh, it says C. C. Did I miss something? We don't have Do we have one of those [laughter] C? I don't like this. You guys talked about Yeah. number 22 C1. Um, the setback was with

Oh, I see. C to take it out. Okay. Yeah, he did. Yep. It's a typo. Fine. Yep. D approval was before start of construction. So see that that that's in this up from signing it. So what's that? No. Yeah, I was seeing how we wrote the the the E permit and it says must present it to before construction,

right? So but has nothing to do with this change but I don't know if you wanted to this is the note asking all the abutters if they wanted to be part of a road maintenance agreement on Granite Hill Farm Road. Did you ask them they agree?

I have [laughter] nobody. It's like asking somebody to be part of something. Yeah, I got somebody answers. I wrote that and says you're going to ask us. Well, I did that. Um, but does that uh does that does that need to be certified or that's one statement basically. It's an it's a u what do you call it? U

I don't remember what it says word for word. Yeah, I can't remember what the ordinance is either specifically, but Oh, what the heck's a word? No. notorized. I have to provide one statement an affidavit there. Yeah. That I have asked everyone

and I didn't know if affidavit from the applicant. Yeah. So that would that would work if you sign it and notoriize the legal affidavit. Does it have to be should be notorized? Okay. Are you a you notary? I can knock that out for you. Better Better get that done quick.

There's [laughter] a lot of stuff. [clears throat] proposed uh road maintenance agreement must be amended. Yeah, we have that. Uh you don't have it, but I I was I don't know if I was supposed to give that to you actually or if you want to see it, I have it.

application, I think it just all goes to right. The only thing that you you probably should are interested in seeing are the changes on the plan. Yeah. Y this is this can go to you then if you want. Thank you. And all I did was add it right there with the fancy stuff in the wire. And whereas with all maintainable

interest and ownership in the road That's the road maintenance agreement that was approved. And which which item was it? Your It's on the front page. The last Whereas number five? Um Nope. Oh, whereas Okay. FE. Yep. Yep. Yep. I got you.

I just added it in there. Mhm. Just recopied that page actually and added it. Yep. [clears throat] Mhm. Springs must be paved in accordance with the ordinance in effect of the time that each Oh, each in the So, I just want to be clear on this. Each additional lot, I guess, where's our starting point?

Well, we're whatever the ordinance states at that time. In other words, right now it's the fourth three don't have to be paid. Okay. Fourth house has to be paid. If the ordinances are changed at the time of the uh fourth house, then

I won't have to pave. If they aren't there, I will. Yeah, that's kind of a confusing note moving forward. Somebody may Well, it's it's only in there. It's only in there because there is hope or rumor or whatever that right that it might change. comprehensive plan may work on some of this, make some changes and do away with the paving

on some okay some uh I I should have said instead of each it should have said that I should have said instead of additional it should have just said each dwelling unit at the time of each dwelling unit permitted right then it would

the same thing it says the same thing the additional makes me wonder where we're starting and stopping from but if we know it's we know right now it's four then Right. Whatever it is at the time of Mhm. of each additional. So if I get three permits

Mhm. it doesn't have to be paved. If it's required at the fourth, then it will have to be if it hasn't changed at that point. Yeah. That was the wording that we hammered out the last meeting. Yep. okay? Okay. So, we don't have the fourth person that was here. So, basically, uh, I'd like if I could get that. All you have to do is sign the myar. I just did one in panel

and my surveyor records it and gets copies for everybody and a PDF for your files. That's the way he likes to do it. I've seen it done here before where, you know, they they sign two or three copies. Technically, you got to make sure everyone signs in the same order. So his idea is if you make copies of the original.

Yep. So I would uh typically the way I've seen it done is you sign a paper copy for us to keep and then we sign a myar. Yeah. And then when the miler gets recorded, you give us back the recorded version and we just discard the old paper just so we know.

Well, I have two there for you. The same case. So we have something here that we Yeah, they've done two or three and the myar. I've seen it different ways. No, it's not a bad idea to have a Those two copies are there for you.

So, we need to sign that. What do we have? Can we use a pen? And then they'll fill out they'll fill out that recording affirmation later. Oh, is there a special pen for that? Am I allowed to read, isn't it? Usually, usually you want a good tap.

Okay, I just thought of that. I think the special regular pen. Try it. This one might work. This This gel will write on anything, but it's probably going to get smudged. This one might work. It's thin, but it might. You can just try

try on try on a corner somewhere. If not, maybe we can get one from Kevin. If not, I'll go tear the off. I got the supply room in mind. Do you want to leave this one? How do you want to get Ann to sign it? Well, I'll leave it here.

She doesn't have to sign it. It just No, she was part of the four people that approved. I think it has to be signed by everyone who approved it. I'm not sure. Yeah. Not Not usually. As long as you have a car, I'm going to sign it.

All right. So, I won't sign it then cuz I wasn't here. Right. Okay. And were you not here? No, you were here. 1 2 3 4. Yep. Mindy's going to sign first. That way we don't She's smudgy. She's on top. copy when you get the recording where it says,

then it won't matter in what order you sign it in. Yeah. I was with the recorded ones. We'll just hang on to it until you bring back the recorded version. there? When do you think it goes right in? Yeah. I get it back to the show.

Okay. line? I think so. I don't know. I think it printed a name next. back for another one. It's okay. caffeine in it. So, you don't think Ann has to sign it then or what? I think we I think she probably Yeah, I think she should

cuz I can leave it leave it here and hopefully we can ask her to come in and sign it. Appreciate it. Yeah, I can do that. I think it'd be better if everybody who was at the meeting signed it. It looks a little suspect with only three signatures on it.

It looks It's only got three signatures, which isn't a quorum here. So, Okay. Okay. Do you want to do one? Uh do you want to sign? Yeah. find one of those. it's safe then. Yep. And she gets plans approved. I don't think we need they weren't all not all of them were were approved or met yet because some of them are prior to construction right

the conditions are not all met yet the plan changes on the plan I made when we've signed the others we've just sign we've just gone through the review and sign we haven't really opened open opened up any right I guess if you sign that they'll assume it must have been

Okay, I'm going to keep that until I get the other stuff that aid David. Okay. And give it to you all at once. So, do you have this? both of those left to sign and yes somebody call me when it's done so I can get it before.

Okayvin's [clears throat] back in the other room few more days. All right. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. discussion. Are you here for that, Kevin, or you just observing? No, I uh lurking. You get to sit in the hot seat. usually on this side of things. They started on this side before I was on that side. [laughter]

This is still considered public. Yes. I'm here in this venue. Yes. Actually, in an official capacity, but um so I'm here actually wearing uh both my selectman and comp committee uh member hat um to uh for a couple reasons. one uh last spring when the board uh first came together, four of which four of the five members that are new um this spring we we kind of uh divvied up if you will uh departments and functions of the town and and wanted uh Sleen to be um like liaison or you know pay a little bit more attention to to a certain functional area. So, you know, somebody's assigned to the fire department and it was a natural fit for me to um have the planning board given, you know, some of the other roles that I'm playing right now. So, that's one of the reasons I'm here is to, you know, reach out and make uh establish kind of a, you know, stronger link between the planning board and the board of selectmen really and a support

role, you know, because you are an independent board and and obviously we're not wouldn't even presume, in fact, we like it when we can say that's the planning board's problem. [clears throat] that's not our problem. Um, but we're here to provide whatever support um that you need and and one of the things I know you need as a new uh code enforcement officer and um I can tell you that as of as I was sitting there um uh the person that we made an offer to accepted the offer. So, we should have uh it's going to be a couple weeks before the person starts. Um but uh and we expect uh we expect to onboard uh him uh you know sometime later this month. So he uh has pretty good uh inspection experience. He's uh currently a state certified third party inspector for uh plumbing and building codes. The piece he doesn't have is there's a uh uh

it's like a legal there's a land use code uh legal course that he'll need to take within a year. um he's he doesn't have a lot of uh code specific uh ordinance specific experience I mean but his previous employment he dealt a lot with like federal regulations and and uh evaluating um properties to see

if they met standards of federal programs and things of that. So he's very comfortable like kind of reading documents like that and pulling out what the requirements are and and so I I I think it'll be a pretty good transition for him. Um speaking of transition, I think this time around with the code officer, we've already spoken with Calvin and and and he's agreed that we're going to have a bit of a smoother um or more uh

gradual gradual. Thank you. That's the uh gradual transition. So that so anything like for instance Mr. Baldwin's uh case uh that you know Calvin will stay working on that and and kind of see that through to the end rather than try to bring a new code enforcement officer in and try to pick it up in the middle and if there are any other you know similar projects like that because you know Calvin is we appointed him as um assistant code enforcement officer so he can continue to act in that official capacity even after we have a code enforcement officer uh on board. Um, the other piece of that that I would envision is maybe some sort of, and it's really up to you, uh, some sort of a workshop or something with the new code enforcement officer once he has his feet wet so that we can establish like really clear expectations between, uh, those roles. And, um, what what the code enforcement officer's role is before

somebody even comes to the planning board with a project. and and just so you guys can all have a mutual understanding of what uh the roles expect from each other um and help things like move along uh smoothly. So, is it a 40hour week role for this person?

It is. No, it's a 32. It's a 32hour full-time, but he but it's the way we uh approach that is it's not a hard 32 in any one week. um certain times of the year it's really as long as it averages 32 over the course of a year that's that's fine with us. Um and so that we to and he's fine with that too you know

so no problem attending meetings the evening meetings. No he's yeah he we we that's one of the things we definitely talk about with candidates is that that's you know planning boards are definite and then other meetings you know kind of as required. Um, so once we get him on board and when it works for you, if you want to set up some sort of a workshop, uh, with him, that would be great. Um, the kind of switching gears, uh, switching hats over to the comp plan side, uh, we've been, uh, contracting and working with GP COG, Greater Portland Council of Governments to provide guidance, um, and help in drafting portions of the plan. and and John raised a question one of the meetings about possibility of having GP COG come and maybe do a joint presentation to this uh committee and the comprehensive planning committee on you know really whatever you wanted with regard to maybe a little bit of guid

guidance on ordinances and and things of that sort fairly high level at first uh we may eventually uh uh as a town or as a planning board contract with them to actually do some more formal ordinance work for us, but I think they could help guide the upfront piece of the comprehensive plan on giving us at least a flavor of if we wanted to accomplish X, what types of ordinances or land use policies should we be um considering to do that? So, they're very open to that and um so maybe be thinking about that and you know some specifics about what you'd like to hear more about or or topics that that we can cover. Um, and so that in that conversation with uh with our GPOG representative, it kind of I know we hear all the time, been hearing for years about all these um issues with the ordinances and where there's contradictions and things of that sort and and it popped the question in my head like do we have a list of

those? like are we keeping some sort of a running like ordinance to-do list like you know like this one you know what I think that would be very helpful both for the comp plan and for yourselves when we get ready to actually rewrite ordinances um because if we the more visibility and awareness we have of what those specific issues are the better we job we can do on the comp plan of kind of setting out pretty clear direction on on how to um resolve some of those things. So

I mean so I think we did. Yeah. At one point in time there was I mean actually it was on the whiteboard here for for a long time. We had a whole list of things and I think the last revision we started doing just kind of really lost steam with Paul leaving and he often was kind of the keeper of the some of the list stuff with us. You know

we just really kind of like lost steam steam with it. But I think a lot of the issues aren't necessarily most of it's just efficiency. So like if we if you look through our various requirements and conditions and performance standards, they don't align. They don't you know, so item number eight in this standard is 13 in this standard and has different language. So you if you're talking about, you know, any any of the development requirements and they just don't align. So it's like we talk about water use in like four different places in the ordinance.

Yeah. You know, and and in theory, the applicant's responding to like three different places in the ordinance depending on his conditional use. It's more that efficiency of of process that I think is our biggest. Yeah. I mean, you know, going through multiple lists of does it meet this requirement, doesn't it meet that requirement, and they're somewhat repetitive, but not again, not quite close enough. So, it's like we still have to talk about

this list and then this list and they don't quite match up. And it's like could we just make all of that one, right? And you know, maybe at this point it's not certainly not asking you to um like make all the corrections at [clears throat] this point, but it might be helpful to actually have a list of of something.

Yeah, this, you know, section eight of this one and section five of this one are essentially the same. We should reconcile that. And then that's that's good. It just kind of gives you a place to go back to and helps the it would help the comp plan committee uh when we start laying out goals and strategies to um give us some targets to shoot at um basically with what we would do with that.

I wonder so GP COG is working with the comp plan on the comp plan. Mhm. So would the GPCOG working with us, the planning board on the ordinances be something that they they've experienced doing? It absolutely is and and um it's something um I raised that with when I met with them last week.

Um the response I got was that uh they don't they don't think they have the capacity to take on a full-blown ordinance um thing right now. Um but I they think that by the time we got a little bit further along in the comprehensive plan, they probably would. Although um Jessa Berna, our representative from GP COG, um she was going to go back to her director and and just kind of see what kind of capacity they might have for doing some of

they had that experience. Absolutely. Yeah, that's that's a big part of big part of theirs big part of the planning and what they do. Um so that that would they're definitely helping the comp plan be efficient in that task. So I can see them be helping us be a lot more efficient in

so we ordinance but but as far as like the comp plan it's kind of a good kind of good segue to discuss this whole thing about rewriting the ordinances based on the comp plan so or not you know based on potential recommendations from the comp plan. So we are or the comp plan committee is writing the comp plan with some recommendations pretty much

not specific ordinance recommendations. Right. Right. general recommendations for the town and then the planning board somehow there's like a a pass off where the the comp plan gives those recommendations to the planning board and then say okay now we need ordinances right so

so that's going to be an interesting so we talked about the timing of that and um hold on a second we had a question but I think we have to wait I don't no reopen. [clears throat] Okay. I was wondering if the comprehensive plan has to be approved and voted in before they anybody considers any different changes to ordinances to fit it.

Uh, no it doesn't actually. No, no. The only the where what you might be thinking of Juliet is you can't have certain types of ordinances without an approved comp plan. Like a growth ordinance would be one. Any ordinance with an impact fee would be another one. Um but other types of ordinances um you could you could propose to be changed at any time. Now I guess there's always the risk that what the something you do might ultimately go against or be not in complete alignment with the comprehensive plan. Um you know so but

so there'd be that risk but I think given given the overlap of the committees I think that's probably unlikely. Yeah. Um I guess I would wonder if there's a political risk like you know with Mr. Bald's perception. Oh, you probably don't want to be messing with this until you have an approved comp plan. And

ideally that's that would be the case. But if there were like but the comp plan is probably not going to be done for we're talking spring 2019. So if there was a pressing need to do something then but ordinance changes do go to a town vote. That's what I thought. I'm sorry.

Ordinance changes do go to a town vote. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. But the comprehensive plan itself does not have any kind of vote. Oh yes, it does. Oh, it does. Okay. It has to be approved. It there's a it has to be first it has to be approved by the town and our goal there is the town meeting in uh 2019, spring of 2019.

Then after that it has to be uh found in compliance uh with the state. And actually that's that's what ha what happened last time was in 2002 the town approved the plan but the state found it non-compliant and then there was never any follow up to bring it into compliance.

So I guess your question was can we write ordinances without the comp plan being approved. Was that what you were getting at? Yeah. Okay. But I know it has to be approved by the voters. Yeah. If we make changes that don't follow the plan.

Right. Yes. So most of the or changes I mean because we actually had it drafted up and we were probably a couple weeks from away from being able to submit it through into the town for the ordinance changes changes last time and it just kind of crashed.

But almost all of those were these organizational cleanups we were trying to get completed. Yeah. It wasn't kind it wasn't Yeah. It was more efficiency. it wasn't necessarily changes to I don't think you necessarily need to wait to do that. Um because even let's

say let's say you did that and you brought it to the town and and and to vote on it at the 2018 meeting um and then by the time we get around to 2019 if there was a piece of it that was you know that we wanted to adjust again there's nothing to say that you couldn't

couldn't do that. Um, I also think for certain uh topics we might be far enough along and at least have drafts of goals and strategies that would be a pretty good indicator of where the plan was going to go. And um, you know, I wondered if given that if it might make sense to in certain cases have uh some ordinances also ready to go to vote on at the spring 2019 meeting. um kind of

working under the assumption that the that the plan would be approved rather than wait a whole another year or have to call a special town meeting 6 months later or something like that. So, I think there's a lot of options there. I'm not here asking for any specific course of action, but um but there's there are options. You don't you don't have to wait until the comp plan is done before you do anything with the ordinances. So,

can I ask how your draft process went? Well, [laughter] so at one point in time, we actually had a consultant uh working with us for I don't know maybe a fourmonth period or so. Okay, that's really where I was going. Yeah. So, do we have any funds left over for a consultant? Because that's really what's needed. I think, you know, you mentioned at the comp plan meeting about third party, maybe a third party inspector, but it sounds like it's flipping. And if we had, you know, somebody that could help with the planning part of things, you know, Paul seemed to have his head wrapped around the planning part of it a little bit, but now it sounds like there's nobody with planning experience. And and to to throw out some criticism, the past what I've seen the past few months has been painful.

Mhm. [laughter] It really is for a lot of for a lot of us and so I'm glad to hear that there's a draft out there to make it a little more efficient but I'm hoping that there's somebody that can help us help guide us along that process and if yeah if we can wrap something in by 2019 uh at the same time

I think yeah I think what we found was that us having workshops and just kind of plugging away at it was the least efficient way to try and get change happening with ordinances. So, I I think it's uh it's much like um it's

almost like working with an architect, right? You're going to tell the architect that um I want a mudroom, I want laundry off the kitchen, I want this, that the other thing, and then they come they come, you give them the requirements, they come back to you with like options or plan. So, um that that's

I think that's an approach that um could work well with ordinances. I would encourage you because in for the in the 2017 budget, most of the um money that historically has been in in planning board budget for like legal and professional was kind of shifted to the comp plan to pay for that. The thought thinking being that well, we have to invest in the comp plan and then we'll invest in the ordinances. And I think that's still largely true, but I think when we do the 2018 budget, there should there should be some legal professional uh funds in the planning board budget uh on top of the comp plan budget. So that if you need some of those consulting resources for ordinances while we're working a little bit concurrently that those funds would be there. So, and a couple times I've heard actually Joe mentioned it before um we actually went into session tonight that there's from an engineers perspective, there's some

standards that are referenced in our ordinance as far as the height traffic and things like that that aren't the current. Yeah. You know, absolutely referenced in our ordinances that aren't current, right? And um actually the engineer that worked on um Barry's application as well said, you know, there's some things in here from an engineering perspective that

could be better. You know, he actually kind of said, you know, if you guys ever get into a rewrite, I was I would sit down and give you some ideas of things that from an engineer's perspective could use some Yeah. And I think any resources like that that we can tap would be would be. So I I guess this was approved at 2016 town

meeting. This there was some minor changes that was mostly that was mostly because we had we had like all these shattered ordinances and it pulled into one land use. There was a separate backlot ordinance. It was separate subdivision and there was a land use and conditional use.

Yeah. We pulled and it really kind of pulled into one one comprehensive land use policy but growth stayed separate. But growth stayed separate. U when I started looking at them they were actually ended up being four different versions when we turned them in one meeting you have one we have to figure out what happened there [laughter] so

but that was the word we did the consultant and that was kind of our first step and then and then us as a board along with Paul were having workshops and just kind of going through it ourselves and saying okay let's look at

you know accessory apartments let's look at campgrounds let's look at all of this stuff and just see you know are we comfortable with what it says in here in terms of what's required are we not? So, but that was that was a long process and we didn't necessarily get kind of as far as we wanted to go. And then I think we had bigger conversations about okay, how do we want to address growth and housing

and do we want a growth district? Do we, you know, that we're really tailoring the ordinance to cuz our, you know, our density is like the same for every [laughter] Has anybody Right. Exactly. Well, that was one of a growth district. It's the same housing density. Have have you has this committee ever um seen the letter that we got from the state that basically described what was wrong with our

2002 comp plan? Uh I'm going to make sure you get a copy of that because it talks about that point you just made exactly was that like yeah there's really no difference here and then the lack of any spec the another thing they mentioned and there were a few others but

a lack of any um we weren't overt enough about any plan for affordable uh housing and how we were going to deal with that in the town. So th you know you can get your wheels spinning on those because I we know we have to deal with those.

Um so if I could just point out experience from experience I can tell you that when you start making changes in an ordinance if you there's a cause and effect you think I'm just going to change this piece but then there has an effect on something three chapters over and and it just becomes if you keep how we got in this

if you keep going what happens you end up with like a Swiss cheese. I mean, there's more holes in this thing and the farther you go, the worse it gets. It's compound and so it's almost one of those you have to break it down into sections and make sure that when you make a change here, it aligns with it's a lot of work really.

But when you start piece me, honestly, we should probably just start over. Start at the beginning. I mean, yeah. Yeah. And if you can find figure out what we want our ordinances to achieve a town or two around you that has just done them that you know that you know spend good money on it. Usually if you start with that and just take the part you like and

Yeah. So [snorts] if Ann was sitting here, she's going to say none of them are good. They all stole the same bad copy and started in the same spot. [laughter] She she flat out has said that. Yeah. Well, typically if you get into like Gorum, Windham, some of the towns like Grand Gore and Windham that you know they spent good money on theirs and they had the work done. Usually you can just kind of take

Yeah. I think there's a couple things, you know, that we've talked about in terms of how we kind of the levels in terms of okay, if you're if you're proposing a, you know, home office, like you don't have to do the same as someone who's proposing some kind of big commercial structure. and some of that, you know, some of the process on our end, but then also related to

what a comp plan would tell us in terms of how do we structure our ordinance so that we have housing growth where we want it, we have develop, you know, business development where we want it and all of that. I think the most the most helpful thing and the most directive thing that will come out of the comprehensive plan is is is the land future land use plan. It's that portion. the the comp plan isn't going to say, you know, we want uh an ordinance that that, you know, allows

unlimited back lots as long as it's familyowned. I mean, it's not going to be anything that nearly that specific. It's going to be more along the lines of, you know, uh ordinances, you know, we we value uh affordable housing and and we want to protect our open spaces and the planning board should design housing ordinances that will accomplish those objectives. And then and then that's when we needed the consultant.

Yes. And then the planning board works with the consultant in the town. Make sure the art ordinance [clears throat] actually does that. Yeah. So there might it might be that you know early on there's some lowhanging fruit like you know cleaning up consistencies and maybe better structure and and organization. But some some of the bigger ones like you know subdivisions and back lots and things like that might might take you a bit longer. But I guess I would say, you know, you don't have to do it all at once and you don't have to wait until you've done it all to, you know, to u bring anything else.

So, if we're going to submit a budget request for some professional services for the next town meeting, when's that when would that have to be? You would want to uh in fact Janet uh Janet um I saw Janet Smith today. That's why I'm saying Ruth

at the MMA convention. But, uh, Ruth will be asking, um, very pretty shortly for, uh, for the department heads and and committee chairs, you know, uh, starting to pull together budget requests for next year. She'll probably start doing that, you know, either in October um, pro or November, but pretty soon.

So, do we want to try and work any ordinances for the coming up? I I think we should town meeting. I I Ann's not here, but she was kind of keeping the copy of what we had changed. So, I'm not entirely sure at what part she is with that.

I have it. I'm going to say I have what I sent to her, but she was going to do she was going to do the heavy lifting. We got fairly close in terms of Yeah, we made a lot of changes. We're all going to forget what we did to Absolutely. you know, no one's going to remember what we were trying to go over it, but

No, I think I mean I I think Well, cuz we're also going to start talking about potentially how we tailor the ordinance for the marijuana laws and and such, too. So, I think we're definitely should plan to do some ordinance workshops over the winter and figure out what we can accomplish. Again,

now MMA is a great resource for sample ordinances, especially the on the marijuana front. um they can uh they often times have uh if they don't have an ordinance themselves, they'll often times point you to a community that they think has a good one. So,

I have I've gotten a couple via email that I said I would email to everybody. I haven't done it yet, but I will do that. So, what's MMA? May Municipal Association. Um in fact, I'm going uh so their annual convention is was today and tomorrow. I was there all day today and today I went to a a workshop on roads and then some on budgeting and taxes and tomorrow um I'm going to one on the state subdivision law and another one on um how the main

supreme court is uh very frustrated with municipal land use ordinances [laughter] um and get some slides for us. Yeah. Yeah. And u PowerPoint slides and then oh and marijuana. Two sessions on marijuana tomorrow. So um lot of stuff tomorrow.

Yeah, Ruth had sent us all the information. It just wasn't a good time for me [snorts] to go. [laughter] Some more work. Yeah. No way. But yeah, that would be good if you bring any information back. Yeah, if they uh um certain certainly I I'll I'll be able to bring back, you know, like uh you know, contacts and references. There haven't been a lot of like actual materials.

Okay. PowerPoints. Well, they've had PowerPoints, but you might they don't have like printouts of them. At least they had they didn't in the workshops I was in today. Okay. Sometimes at the end of the workshops, they'll give you a link.

Yeah. So, I have a couple of contacts where I uh for to get like that. So, but um that's all I had. I really I just wanted to reach out and let you know um you know thank you for uh your work on the planning board on behalf of the selectman because we know it's been a very frustrating year plus um but uh we really think that um with the work the comp committee is doing and with a new CEO that um that there's a light at the end of the tunnel. Um, and before I go, if you didn't already know this, and if if she hadn't already called it out, I wanted to give kudos to Tammy

because she has put all of our ordinances in searchable PDF format on the websites. So, you can now, you know, type in junkyard and the land use ordinance and there's the six references to it. So, uh, thank you very much. Thank you, Tim. That um, makes it a lot easier to find stuff.

Actually, I have I had a quick question. Um, so how does the comp plan when when you were talking about an ordinance to-do list and with Jill leaving, I was thinking like we don't have a place where the planning board keeps documents like that we use.

What is the comp what do what is the select board? What is the comp plan committee like? Do is there a town resource that we can use or do people just using Dropbox? Well, we have a town. We h we had uh Ruth set up a Dropbox for the comprehensive plan committee. Okay. And we are um we laid out a process at our last meeting where we're going to be editing we're all editing the same file and we can all see each other's comments uh on of a word document in the Dropbox.

I'm just thinking as it's like, you know, Jill's, you know, I'm like, well, do I have all the documents that Jill had access to or you know, and if Ann's got we used to have a lot of copies of things floating around that we're emailing checklist. Yeah,

it's like I have them on my computer and other people have them on their computer, but there's no central place and I didn't know if I really think uh having uh having some sort of cloud storage for the town, whether it's Dropbox or something else um is definitely something that's been on my radar as well. We um we're waiting for our new um public [snorts] information technician to uh come on board and get up speed. And we we actually have a new uh server being installed tomorrow

18th actually. Okay. But very soon. So we're doing some up upgrading of the um network here in the building. So I I would envision at some point being able to you know there'd be a selectman folder and a planning board folder comp committee and whatever else and it would be um basically cloud-based and assess access assessable by the members of the committee. I think in the meantime, you can certainly talk to Ruth um and have her set up a Dropbox account for you for your members.

And as secretary, I can help you get going with that, Mindy. Especially with all this transition with Jill and and all the stuff that was in her secretary email. Yeah, I mean I think I have a I think I have a lot of it, but I was just thinking that, you know, all of us keeping different versions on our computers as well.

We can kind of we can move those too if we need to like if we get solution. So, the one thing you want to keep in mind is it's all public record. Anybody can come in and ask for any of that stuff at any time. And I think hopefully you're all using like a durmain.com email address and not a personal address.

Um that that just protects yourself cuz they're if you're using your own email sign the thing right to say you didn't want it. Didn't people have to She has one. I don't think she How do you get one? I don't know. You can contact. Oh, rude. Yeah, you I think you have one. You just don't know about it.

You just [laughter] No one just told you about it. That's nice. Yeah. So, kind of like how he started on this board. Yeah. [laughter] Showed up thinking it was compliment and he actually had a seat. Welcome. We don't know what we're doing.

Please send it to me. Along with that, Kevin, are people uh are we looking into wireless wireless? What? Wireless internet Wi-Fi? There's Wi-Fi in this building now, but but not guest Wi-Fi to answer your question. Yes. Okay. At least like for board members during meetings.

Yeah. Okay. And you can uh I know you can see it right now, but as far as I know, we can't get past the firewall. You can if you have the town password, office password. Okay. Um but we want to get but we don't really want like 40 30 40 people to have that. It's really should be just for the office staff and um

uh but um we yeah that is an issue and yes we do plan on fixing the you know the guest Wi-Fi. Okay because it is some very helpful at times we hopeful stuff. Absolutely. Yeah. Yep. And that's the other thing when you do ordinance changes. If you don't have it in the PDF, if you can word search, when you change this word here, you can see everywhere else where it affects the ordinance and then you go and it pops right up. So last time I did one and I had that option and that uh

and then we also did the uh we amended the comp plan at the same time because you cannot per state statute have any ordinance that that conflicts with your um comprehensive plan. Right. That's right. So, I mean, I have never I mean, every town has boo boos in their ordinances here. No town's perfect, but if you wanted to go find a problem, you could find something that's not legal in every ordinance in the state, no matter who wrote it. But,

that's always the piece I struggle with the most is I don't know enough about the court cases that have challenged ordinances, which is a book on its own. That's Yeah, [clears throat] that is the piece I struggle with as Well, anything any ordinance and the comp plan, anything like that goes goes through the town lawyer before we bring it to the town for a vote just to make sure that um you know, it's kind of like the final check for any uh inconsistencies or problems or

but that searchable. Uh I wonder if we brought it to them right now. We did it last time we did we did it for and we track changes. Yeah. Yeah. Well, some of them are still highlighted in here. This book shouldn't even be in here. And [laughter] so, I'm just saying that it won't be in the next book. I

was reading through something a few weeks ago and the section headings were going like one, two, and all of a sudden I was in seven. It's It's not It's not pretty. So, okay. Any other questions? Great. Thank you guys. Anything else from

No, I just wanted to say thank you. all right. We'll get that. Let's see if we can get her in here to sign that for you. So, our next meeting will be Wednesday, November 1st. applications, nine separate packets of supporting documentation due at the town office no later than October 23rd at close of business.

The only thing I know of is a proposed car loss went to sell good cars on a lock down road. I thought he'd be here, but I thought he would make submission by the 24th. He didn't make it. So, I'm going to guess it be for the next one.

Mhm. Okay. Anybody have anything else? Motion. Okay, I'll make a motion to adjourn. Second that.