TranscriptJanuary 7, 2021 ~ Budget Presentation

and selectman's meeting. Um the first of probably many and today is what's today's date? January 7th and um with that I guess we'll get started. We're going to discuss the public works budget tonight. Uh Mil can you mute your phone as well when you're not talking? That would be helpful as well. And then a couple things. Um, we don't require that you keep your camera on, but it is indeed helpful. The meeting is being recorded. Um, and at least when you're speaking or presenting or something like that, please have your have your cameras on if possible. Um,

so Luth, I don't have the agenda in front of me. Um, but I think we just jump right into Calvin's presentation, right? Okay. who's not speaking mute themselves um in the um does everybody know how to raise your hand if you want to say something?

Well, yeah. Thanks, Rick. Okay, you you can do it like that like Rick did or you can also do it um on the screen and we will um call on you. Jill, did you have a question or you just showing everybody how to raise their hand? No, I have a question.

Okay, go ahead. Um, is there a specific handout in an email that I should be opening up before Calvin begins? Well, Calvin's going to share his screen, so you will see the spreadsheet um of his budget, so you'll be able to see the numbers as he's speaking about them.

Okay. Thank you, Calvin. You ready to share your screen? I will try. I've been having some issues, but um see what I got. Share screen. It's the spreadsheet I sent you. question though, there was an a message sent out um two days ago on the 5th that had the notes for the public works budget. There's a PDF that um that Roose sent out.

Yes, Calvin. That's that's fine. So, take it away. This is the first time I've ever shared a screen, so I get uh I I might get lost and have to start over, but uh some of the buttons get covered up with other things. So, the

the um it's a 20.25% increase in the budget, which that's not u uh actually true. What happened was last year because of COVID we had some substantial cuts. Uh just the paving alone is $187,000 the actual approved budget was before the CO cuts took place, it's actually only 39% increase. So basically flat.

Uh with that said, I mean, you take the just the work has gone up to paving and the uh a couple other things make up that uh make up that whole 20%. I just wanted to just didn't want anybody to think I was looking to increase my budget line by 20% because that's that's not what's happening. Um,

so, uh, starting at the top of the line, uh, the allowance for merit wage, that's something Ruth, I guess you and the select board take care of that. Um, that's not included in the total. Um, road commissioner salary, I guess that went over because Ruth uh, wasn't aware there were uh, was an extra week uh, actually 53 weeks. So, that was why

that line went over. Um the unemployment we don't we don't have any so we didn't have any last year. Uh the labor um we came within you know $558. So I'm comfortable leaving that the same. Um janitorial wages um had $17 budgeted. Uh we spent all but $ 296 and she was out quite a bit with some uh the cleaning lady was out a bit with some uh personal issues. I'm expecting that that probably won't happen again. So I think that number probably should stay where it is. The workers comp has a significant increase. 56% increase. And

I guess Ruth could speak to that. She knows more about that. She deals with the insurance companies. You want to explain that, Ruth? Uh, yes, I will. Um, Jill, you had your hand up. Is Is it something to do with what he's just talking about?

Oh, sorry, I didn't. No, that's okay. Yes. I was just curious um with basic labor what you guys did since you weren't doing the paving projects. Oh, we were ditching. We're ditching and doing maintenance paving u uh box cutting and rebuilding roads.

Thank you. Okay. So, as Calvin was talking about the workers comp and I have included um the calculations in your packets. Um we the workers comp works so that our company looks back for the last three years. Um and in 2019 there was a fairly significant claim. Um and so that has now come on to our workers comp which increased it by 52% this year. So you will see um large increases in the workers comp lines across the board. Um and that's because uh our our rate has gone up. All

Um the u um right about the same. Um, and there again, Ruth sets that uh with payroll uh Medicare um asking for the same number insurance looking for the same um electricity utilities. Uh we were at 159. We're looking for 159. We spent uh we underspent that line by 26.81. We're asking for uh 159 again

because we had substantial uh decreases in fuel cost last year. We had low fuel and I don't anticipate that that's going to continue again this year. So I would like to bring that uh back up to keep that right where it is. Um

Lois has a hand up. Oh, okay. I I know. That's why I'm here. I can't see. But actually, that's okay, Calvin. I could wait, but it actually is a question about the workers comp. I understand it went up 50% for across the board for everybody in the in the town. Is it expected to go down next year or will it remain at that because it went up? Does it remain up for a certain number of years or

three three years? So, three years. Yeah. So 17, 18, and 19 are the years they're looking at now. And uh 17 will fall off next year. And so then it'll be 18, 19, and 20. So it'll be another two years before the the 19 one falls off

because that was the big one. Okay. Thank you very much. Thanks. Yep. Yep. Uh the uh communications we were uh under by $186. I'd like to uh cut that line uh by 500. Um I think we've got enough uh um I think I think that we could cut that comfortably by 500. I think we've gotten a lot of uh stuff tuned up and out of the way. So I don't foresee a big a big uh item.

over by 8339. And that's if you look at the years past 18 19 I think I just cut it too deep last year and over optimistic overly optimistic and I think I should have stayed uh I think I should have stayed uh at 45 and that that did bear true.

So, I I really uh um need to uh go to 45,000. Uh the uh rental equipment, uh we're over by 1410. I'd like to up that line to 12,000. um because we're going to be uh starting to um uh rent a greater and doing some of our own grading because it's becoming uh we've been having Panel do grading for us and that's becoming hard for us to reimburse them or repay them because we don't have anything really that they need from us. Uh I can't afford to lose a truck or a guy to go out and spend time over there. So, that's something we're going to have to start um preparing for. So, I think I'd like to start upping that and get that up to 12,000. Um facility maintenance. Um we were uh uh under by, you know, 80 bucks. I want to uh stay there and would

like to add $7,000 for a truck wash station. I don't know if you guys are following along in the word document that I sent. Uh the uh the truck wash is something I asked for last year and that was cut. Um I think that the $7,000 would be well spent in uh preventive maintenance for getting the the water off the trucks with the we're we're using garden hoses and they're just getting very little water. Especially if you're washing two or three trucks at a time, you get almost no water out of the hoses. and we just need a lot more volume. So, um that's why I'm asking for the 17

in that line. Calvin, question on that one. Why wasn't that submitted as a capital request since it's over $5,000? I thought the capital request was 10,000. Oh, yeah. I think you might be right. Yeah, my bad. Yeah. So, so I' like to leave that in there. Um um the uh if I can

not spent that line item and um so I'm I'm willing to cut that, but I think that uh long term I think we need to keep that on the radar that we're going to need to uh uh I think I think once we get caught caught up. We've really um come a long way in getting us caught up to where we need to be with our road plan. And once we I think in the next couple of years, we're going to want to start really looking at uh a vegetation management plan to get a lot of the uh trees uh trimmed and cut back along the road that are growing out in. You'll notice that on the side where the utility lines are that they keep that cut back pretty well. But on the opposite sides, they're growing out into the road, and we're getting them the best we can, but I think moving forward in future years, we're probably going to want to see that line go back up. But for now, I'm willing to cut that line.

Calvin, yep. Um, Mike Clark has a question. Yeah. Sorry, I can't figure out how to do this raise the hand thing on the screen. Um, Kelvin, just just back on the wash station, is that would that be an extra annual expense of an extra 7,000 or would that just be a onetime thing for the install?

That's just a one-time thing for the three tanks and the pump and to get it set up and going and the water would be just on reserve in those tanks and the pump and just just a one time. Okay. Okay. So, do you see and uh after if that was to be approved, would there be an additional increase going forward in addition to I guess what's been spent in prior years for that?

No. That may not be seven grand a year, but would it increase your maintenance budget going forward? No. No. It's just a basic pump and poly uh HTP tanks that, you know, they they never rust or Okay. Excellent. trucks after every storm.

Yep. Um, so you know, I don't know if this would really fit into your program. Probably certainly probably not after every storm. But, uh, you know, keep in mind that New Gloucester has a brand new truck wash facility over there on Route 100. it's a waste to drive and there's the cost of the miles on the vehicle and the operator. Um, but I have mentioned that to Ted Shane that uh Durham might

have some interest at some point in using that facility. So, if you do uh give him a call, that's that's all I'll I'll just leave it at that. But but I do realize it's SPAR, so you know, may not may not fit into what you're looking to do. Thank you.

Yeah. Thank you. And Calvin Mil has a question. Yep. I I hope I remember having this discussion uh last year. I spoke to an employee of COP construction. Cop has a reputation of keeping his trucks impeccably clean. And I asked them what problems they had,

you know, you using the the water tanks to wash their trucks. And they said they had ample enough water to clean their trucks. And that leaves me scratching my head why they were able to keep all their trucks washed and yet you don't feel there's enough water to do ours.

all the trucks washed as well. Uh it's very time consuming and I think they could be washed a lot better. I think you could get more salt off. If we had more water, we would be able to get what happens with uh with water pressure is you just drive more salt into the cracks and it's not a pressure issue, it's a volume issue. And the um

the more salt we could get off the trucks uh and and in in a in a timely fashion. I mean, sometimes we know soon to get done with a storm and we're getting back out in a few more hours and, you know, we have very limited time. The truck drivers are very tired. I I really would like to be able to get these trucks um much cleaner, much faster.

Okay. uh like to hold that that line the same. Um we uh we didn't have a lot of training this year with um we did some training uh some some webinars um but we didn't didn't have uh a lot of uh um the uh main local roads didn't

have a lot of training this year because of co I think that's hopefully that will start changing but even even with uh even without that we uh I believe we need that $1,000 if nothing more than just management training in in and of itself. So I

would like to leave that line where it is. Um like to uh leave that line right where it is. I mean we came pretty close. and you look at the three years running, it's pretty consistent with what we use every year. leave in place. The um

culverts uh this year than we had last year on hand. uh like to we we over spent that by $353, but I think we can cut that uh I think we can cut that by a couple of thousand down to 12 um because we have a few more covers this year. We have more than we did last year on hand. So, I'm willing to comfortable in cutting that line. The um erosion control

leave that line right where it was at 2500. You can see consistently we spent that's probably a good that's a good average um signs. This was one of the lines that was cut uh due to CO um after we were approved. we had to make some cuts and so this is one of them that we um have typically asked for. Um um

Guess I'm lost on that line right there. Yeah, we cut we cut that. That's typically three or $3,500 line and we had to cut it and so we were significantly over. Um, some of that was just a lot of signs came up this year and we had to uh um I think we

we had been working on some surplus over the years that we had had on hand that's kind of dwindled down over the years and so this year we really uh uh really ended up going way over on that line. So, I'd like to go back to the you can see average what we've been spending and I think that's originally what I had requested anyway last year before we had done the cut. So, I'd like to stay with that 3500. The uh safety equipment I think u I think there again consistently uh been right about there and I'd like to stay at the 3,000. U we were we had $6 left

over in that line. Oh, we have a couple questions. Oh, how do you see them? I know. I see I have them on my second screen, so it's easier for me. Um Jill, I saw your hand first. Durham Town signs part of that line? No, not this year. Um it uh um we we

just uh in the last few years it was. This year we really just had a lot of signs that uh that uh came up and I I think we had a lot we we we had some surplus before and that's just been used up over the years and we really had to reach out and buy a lot of material and I think that's likely going to continue.

So I thought we were all done buying town signs though. So, I guess I'm kind of curious. Yeah. Why it needs to stay up if we're no longer needing a welcomed Durham sign anymore. Well, we didn't buy one this we didn't buy one this past year. That number was just for stop signs, curve sign, just you know, all your street signs um without buying the town signs. So, I was really uh surprised at at how much it uh cost for signs this year. And I think we need to bump that number up. Did we get more stolen or damaged? Why? Or was it just an increase in cost per sign?

Uh well, they did go up. They were over $50. And the um uh we did have a lot of uh a lot of damage and we've been changing. We've been putting up a lot of uh private road signs and changing a lot out. And um I think we had a lot of surplus before that we've just used up. Okay.

Having to buy everything. Okay. Thank you. I have a suggestion. Um actually this is partially from Mike. So um maybe we wait till the end. Let's Calvin let him get through everything. Write down your questions and then at the end we'll just have Calvin um answer all the questions that he can and then obviously get back to you on any questions. Um he doesn't have answers to tonight so we just don't keep interrupting him. Is is that agreeable for everybody?

want to ask one last question before we do that? You're you're you're muted. Lois, you're muted. I can't hear word you're saying. Sorry. Um what I said was I will forget it by the end. So I appreciate the fact you're giving me the opportunity to ask it now. Um so Calvin, am I right in thinking that those signs must be on some sort of a cycle for replacement? You you said a couple times they came up like they came up for replacement is what the way I understood you to say that. So are are they on some are the stop signs and yield signs and stuff like that are they on some sort sort of a cycle? No, they get damaged, they get hit, they get uh uh knocked over. Uh uh some of them are are, you know, faded. Other ones uh we have to add them because like, you know, an old Brunswick road, the police uh wanted uh uh signs put up and some of the citizens who complain about speeds, we've had to increase put

up a lot more speed limit signs and Okay. Thanks. Yeah. Okay, Calvin, keep going. Uh the U. You can look at the years past and think 3500 is below average, but we could uh I think we can live with 3500 and make that work. uh minor equipment. Um that was over by

1351. Uh the uh I do have, you know, a couple of things I'd like to get this year. Uh a laser and a u a sign driver. It's a gas powered machine that drives the signpost in instead of us using sledgehammers. And I think it'd be a lot safer and a lot easier on the guys to uh to have that electric or gas powered sign driver. Um but um I'd probably have just enough to get the one. Won't be able to get the laser. Uh but I I think that's um we were over. But I think that you know if I go back to 38 I think that uh I'll go back to um minor equipment. Uh go back to the 38. think that's a comfortable number and I it's a little higher than what it has been but I I think this year because of that that uh that one tool is

driving it up. So paving. That's the other line that um that's the other that's that's a line that we had cut in half last year. So, it looks like a dramatic increase, but it really isn't. Uh, we're just getting back in line with where we should be to stay on our paving maintenance plan.

Uh, and that number uh also included u um um getting uh the parking lot paved out here. That's got to be included in that number. um that has to be done because it's falling apart to the point where it's getting potholes and I've got to probably do a few minor repairs before I pay it. But so that's that's reflected in that number. The uh uh gasoline fuel um no we had some great numbers this year uh prices I don't foresee that continuing. So, I um think that uh you'll notice we're way under what we've been spending over the last few years. And so, that was the surplus reason for the surplus. I would not uh count on that holding for this year. So, I think we need to leave that number uh right where it was at 40,000. Um uniform clothing reimbursement uh like to get that at 2,000. We were we are $113 under budget on that.

traffic control flagging um that line was basically eliminated um because of the uh that was that was one of the cuts that was made in the the co u cut. So, we uh took that line out completely. Um we still spent $835. I'd like to move that up to a,000. Um most of the roads that we're going to be working on this year are going to be subdivisions and short deadend roads. I um think next year we'll be more some more open throughways and we'll be needing more um contracted services for flagging but I think for this year coming we will be able to handle it ourselves

surveying um legal status of roadways etc that uh um uh was 15,000 we spent 125 uh to drop that down to u I think comfortably down to 12. That's uh that's probably average for what we've been spending over the last two or three years. Um so I think cutting that line would be appropriate.

that line. Um, and a lot of that was due to uh at the end of the winter it just stopped snowing for a while and so we weren't we weren't mixing it with the salt. So we had u overage we had a surplus of funds there and uh the uh and and you'll see that basically follows through with the winter salt. Um that was the reason I think for such a surplus there as well. The uh winter sand we had 9,000 we spent 6624. Um I think we could cut that line. If you look at the average over the last three years I think that line at 8,000 would be uh we'd be comfortable with that. The winter salt is u another item that

we had a surplus in. um that uh you know the it basically stopped stopped snowing in like March and so we had uh a lot of salt just didn't get used at the end of the year. Um so um you'll see we are quite a bit significantly lower than what we normally spent. So I I really would not feel comfortable cutting that line because I'm all the forecasters are sh saying that we're looking at the warmer temperatures but more precipitation and that often comes with freezing rain which really uses a tremendous amount of salt much more so than snow. the uh winter plow blades. Um

um we uh we had 144 483 uh we spent 106 648 uh and there again I think there was uh we didn't use a lot of wild blades at the end of the season and so I think uh cutting that line by 2500 or so would be I you know I feel comfortable cutting that line by about 2500 um and uh

because we've and getting um a little more out of the blades than we we have been. So, I I'm comfortable with I'm comfortable with uh with with cutting that winter equipment maintenance. Uh that was over by $1,518. Um I really think that that number needs

to be closer to 30 as the trucks are another year older. The trucks are uh really starting to get into u getting to the age now at five or six years old where they are starting to show u signs of wear and the computers things start to break and start to um start to have uh the very complex computer issues that have to be diagnosed. And so I I think that uh I think moving that number to 30 is uh uh appropriate.

uh weather technology. Uh we had a 1,200. We didn't spend anything. I think that we could cut that number to uh to 600. We didn't spend anything because I had some extras on hand. So I think that you know we've used those up. So I think probably we'll have to buy like one more unit this year. So I I'm comfortable with uh cutting that line in half. And uh so that's uh

um You're you're muted. Hold on. Yep. There. I'm putting it back up again. So, I wrote down my questions, Calvin, so I wouldn't forget them. Okay. Um, I got a list of them. So, can you explain to me why was the paving maintenance delayed? I understand it was something about COVID, but what was the reasoning behind did they just did you guys just stop for a number of weeks in working? No, the uh select board decided that due to the uh uncertainty of the you know the financial the the times that we were in and the uncertainty and people not knowing what they were going to have jobs or they felt that it was appropriate to uh try to tighten our belts like everybody else had to do. And so that was a line that we decided to uh

uh cut that in half to save uh some money for last year. So now we're getting back on to the program and yeah. So in order to make it so that not every single line was used in case we needed to reduce the overall budget. I'm assuming that's why it was you went into some sort of a safety module so that you could so everybody had to make a little bit of cuts in order to save some money. So last year, Lois, um well, yeah, last year, um we were picking up the first bond payment for the 2019 road bond. Um and so that looked like we were going to have, you know, an increase in the tax rate and we were we were concerned, you know, with the COVID um and the financial repercussions of of the possible ramifications of COVID. Um and we we wanted to try and keep the the tax burden level. And frankly, the the only line that that we can substantially um cut for that amount of money um is the paving line. And so that's where we took

it from um to keep the the line level, which doesn't mean that Calvin's guys weren't working. It just means that they were doing um a smaller number of the actual overpaving. They were still doing all the ditching and stuff like that.

Okay. So, it wasn't a shutdown where people weren't working. No, there was no shutdown. They continued to work. Okay. Can I keep going with a couple more with a few more questions? Sure. Okay. So, the next one, um Calvin, you said um you needed to pave the parking lot because it was getting all potholes. I just need Is is that the the town office parking lot or the parking lot over at public works?

Public works. Thank you. Um the flagging piece of it. Can Can you just tell me what the flag You said most of it's going to be on private road or You didn't say private roads. You said subdivisions. Those are subdivisions that the town is approved to take over.

Yeah. Subdivision roads that we're going to take over. Like I'm assuming it's that one down somebody farm or something like something farm. No, these are ones that the town already owns. Oh, okay. Okay. Okay. These are these are probably been town roads for 20, 30 years. I mean, there there some old developments, some newer ones, but they're nothing nothing real recent.

Okay. Okay. Is the is the salt able to be saved from year to year? So, you said last year toward the end of the year because it didn't do very much in March and April that you had salt. Is it able to be saved or does it like disintegrate?

No, it can be saved, but we just don't have the room. We don't have another room for it. So, anything that's left over from the previous year, Lois, is in the salt shed. So, it's it's it's on route nine. Yes. Yeah. Okay. Okay.

We only have one small corner that's designated for salt. Most of it is sand. Okay. Okay. And then just one one other question I had and maybe can can you go back um Kelvin and look in 2018 under winter plow blades and under winter equipment maintenance from 2018 to 2019 there was a huge increase in the winter plow blades and there was a huge a huge decrease in the winter equipment maintenance. Did something change on that line that I was that I I can't figure out what it would have been? Like the plow blades in 2018 were $2,600

and in 2019 were $15,000. So that obviously was a huge increase, but the winter equipment maintenance went from $75,000 to $26,000. So I just is was something shifted in order to you know sometimes people move money around and it's now on a different line. Is was there something that shifted to to the lines to make it that one went down and one went up?

Well the the winter plow blades we had a massive surplus that we were working off from and uh that ran out. So, uh, I had to start tracking exactly, you know, how long we were getting per blade. And I had asked for that information before and didn't get adequate information. So, um, didn't didn't get the information uh, presented to me in the way it should have been. So, then now I've been monitoring how long we're getting per blade. And so, we had to really step up the purchase next year to cover the plow blades to get back up to the stock we needed. And then this year uh you'll see

we we budgeted 14, we spent 10. Um and I think that uh we're just trying to find that spot. So when the department was created, they apparently bought a massive amount of uh cutting edges. And so that stockpile uh we went through that and so we had to make an adjustment. So that's the adjustment you're seeing there. I think the I think the actual number is going to end up being, you know, in that 12,000 range.

Okay. And and the reason I think it wasn't this year at 12,000 was because of the snowfall that we didn't get in late winter. And this year could be low again because this is we're done with snow this winter. So um yeah. Yeah, always we can always hope. But uh the uh winter equipment maintenance um we had just uh

a lot of work be done to some of the older trucks just to get them to get through another winter or two because of the um they were just they were just very old and they had to have a tremendous amount of fabricating, welding and uh basically rebuilding a lot of parts of the truck. So that that that just put us way up there to get us up to where we needed to be.

And and then you know and then this then the next year uh the trucks were in pretty good shape and we were going right along uh with a lot less money and and I think now you're seeing uh a more I think now you're seeing more the norm.

Okay. And then just one more question. Um, so when I was just going through some grant stuff the other day, I found where FEMA has grants for fire equipment. So I sent a thing to Ruth saying, "Are we applying for that?" Because Costco got like $63,000 for fire equipment and we're asking for air packs for the fire department. And so I thought, you know what, that's what FEMA money is for. FEMA money is for stuff like that. Is there or do you know if there is a block of money from

I don't know from some infrastructure grant or from maybe from FEMA even um that's available for public works departments not aware of any um um I know that there is uh I got an email today that there's uh I got an email today inviting me to look into

this new u package that was just approved by Congress and I that's the first I've seen of um there's a webinar on that that I can join in to look at and I'm sure probably Ruth got the same message on how towns can tap into those funds. Uh I I I don't know of any other than other than that. Ruth may have a better idea than I do on that. It's just it seems like I mean all these billions of dollars are being made available to different things. It would be a shame if there's something there and we don't take advantage of it.

Yeah. Do you know of anything, Ruth? Not for public works. Not offhand. No, I'll keep looking. How's that, Calvin? I'll call you if I find something. That would be great. Let me know. I'll be happy to look into it. Louisis, you good?

I'm good. Thank you. Okay, Mike. the salt. So, Kelvin, you said that that is stored. Is there $40,000 of stored salt over there in the shed? Uh, no, that was money that we uh handed back in. Um, that was u money that we didn't spend.

Okay. So, is that um we're still at the situation where that goes to the capital budget? Yeah, I'm assuming I'm assuming that's the Yeah, the bottom line that 37932, Mike, that that goes back into the capital fund. Okay. Um and then on the paving, what was supposed to get done last year that wasn't done due to the the cut on the paving budget? Um, we uh cut that um um well I don't I

don't I don't have that right in front. Basically, we cut the we cut the uh we cut it right in half. We we went down to 1.41 miles and we had probably uh close we had about three miles slated. So, I I don't have that list right here, but we took half of them off. And the roads that we did do had to have tremendous amount of work. We had to basically rip out large sections and box cut and rebuild uh uh them. So that was what took so much effort and time with the public works crew was it wasn't just a simple ditching project. It was basically a reconstruction of a lot of it.

Okay. So increasing that back to what it was last year. Um, obviously you're going to be doing some catchup, but does that mean that the things that would have insulated for this year aren't going to happen as well? No, we moved those things that would have gotten done last year up to this year and and added roads besides we had to basically shuffle the whole 10-year plan and move everything down or move everything up.

Okay. Okay. So, I guess I'm just I'm curious as to what would what would the ask have been for this year then if if that you know if you got the 375 last year, would it have been the same? Because it doesn't sound like things are getting postponed this year. Like I said, it if I'm

curious as to if something isn't getting done that should be. No, we're doing we're right back on track with uh right back at 2.6. 61 miles of road and we're right we're right back where we were last year. We we cut some roads out. But what I did was to cut that in half as I u took on some roads that really were shim and overlay for a large part. But then there were sections that really needed to be rebuilt and we the public works crew rebuilt them ourselves and that was what took a lot of our time. But that was a way for us to get uh uh um

the biggest bang for our buck was to get those roads rebuilt with our own crew and still get the paving done. So this year we're back to the full 2.61 miles. So we're going to get done last year's stuff that wasn't done plus the stuff that was originally scheduled for this year on the same budget that we would have had regardless.

No. So I think I think uh what Calvin is saying is some of the the roads are getting that were supposed to be done this year are getting pushed to next year. So it's kind of a a domino effect where whatever he didn't get done last year he gets done this year but some stuff from this year goes on to next year and then the following year

right that's that that's that's what I'm trying to get at. Right. So there's something that isn't getting done this year that would have otherwise. Yes, I would imagine. The roads that didn't get done last year are going to get done this year, plus some additional roads because we only we

didn't do half the roads last year. They're going to move up to this year. Now, we're going to be doing that that half that we didn't get done last year, plus additional roads to bring it back up to our full um to our full u mileage that we need to stay on track. So, we're doing a full 2.61 miles this year. Last year, we did uh 1.4 four because we had to cut that. This year we're going back. We're doing the whole We're doing the whole amount.

Okay. Maybe I'm asking the question wrong, but we can move on. That's all right. Thanks. Okay. Um Kevin had wanted to ask a question. Kevin, are you there? Yes, I am. Thanks. Yeah. Sorry, my raised hand button is not working um for some reason. So, um, and it wasn't as much of a question as I guess as a comment. And, you know, pro we're probably going to run into this with other, uh, departments as well. I think for, you know, when the average citizen, you know, looks at this and sees a 20 plus percent increase, um, over Ly and and forgive me if you guys may have talked about this at the beginning of the meeting. Apologize, I was uh, late this evening. Um, I just think we're going to have to have good explanation and good uh um,

you know, guidance for voters on like why that number is so big. We know it's because of the money we cut for a COVID response. I'm wondering it might make sense um to actually add a column on these to put you know um you know versus 2019 actual so they could compare what 2021 budget being asked for is versus like the last quote unquote normal year we had or something like that but more just a call out than anything that we're going to need to be ready with some good explanations for those big uh increased percentages. Yeah, it's a good point. That's why Yeah, I I opened I opened with that statement so that people uh that were in the meeting wouldn't be a sticker shock of seeing that 20.25%. But I think that would be a good idea.

Uh it needs to be like, you know what what they say like an elevator speech, something you can say in like 30 seconds that people will go, "Oh, yeah, okay, that's why. All right, good." Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. And so adding a column, Ruth, I guess there's some way to someone.

That's just a suggestion. Don't take that as go add the column now. It's just like one way to approach it. It's just a suggestion. But yeah. Yeah. Okay. Is that your question, Kevin? That's it. That's it for me now. And I will try not to like jump in in front of anybody since I can't raise my hand.

I saw Neil's hand next. in my head for paving the parking lot. Is that right? Uh, it's Well, it's was 30 last time I got the estimate. I'm guessing it's going to be right around somewhere in there. That's all. Thank you. Well, I saw your hand next.

There you go. Okay. Um, so I have three questions. I want to first follow up on Neil's question. Um, so Calvin, the cost for paving, you just said the cost for paving the public's work yard you estimate to be about $30,000.

Yeah. Yeah. And and that's is that for the is this project for the entire yard? You know, front of on the 136 side and then behind the garage where the where the garages out back are? That's just the front front parking lot just to pave what's here. Just to save what's here, maintain the existing pavement. Okay, that that helps. Um, and is that the price that you quoted for to us last year as well?

Yep. Um, Lois had asked you a two-part question, but I only heard the an answer for the first part. She had asked you to explain uh regarding line 40 the plow blades why the cost in 2019 jumped to 15937 from the price in 2018 which was 2660. I

I understood your answer for that. She then went on to line 41 and asked for an explanation as to why in 2018 the budget was 75,689 and it dropped in 2019 to 26,512. I didn't I'm not sure I didn't hear it. I don't remember what your answer was if you did indeed answer that part of the question. So, uh, back in 18, we had a lot of the older trucks and they just were not going to make it. Um, we could see that they just were not going to make it, um, until replacement. So, we had to make a decision to, um, get these trucks, uh, a lot of them refabricated and built, um, that, uh, cost a lot of money. Um, and so once we got that done, we had uh bodies refabricated, parts of frames, we had new floorboards put in some of the trucks just to get them. That was that was a that was just to get us through. We didn't have a choice. And so, um, and then after we got that work done, you'll see we went back to uh 26 and we spent

27 this year. And I think that uh as the trucks are now another year older, I think that the 30 is probably uh an appropriate number for that line. Yep, I understand. I and I do remember us having that discussion in 2018. So, uh your your answer makes sense to me. Uh my third question is I just want to confirm um uh relating to line six uh

you are not asking for a pay increase. uh that's covered under uh uh raise pool the raise pool and that's uh done with the select board and u I I really have nothing to do with that that's based on u uh performance reviews and things like that

okay thank you those are my questions for now Jill I had you was next and then one question for Ruth. Um, Kelvin, is it possible cuz I can't find it in this setup. So, maybe even if you can just point me to it, but is it possible to get um a vehicle list from you again as to what we have and what ages they are? And is it also possible to get another copy of the um road

rebuild wish list? Uh sure. Yeah, I can uh I can get that for you. Yep. Thank you. So, I'm going to jump in here. Jill, I think the vehicle stuff should be part of the CIP uh materials that you have. So, um, that's where all the vehicle information and ages and those schedules, uh, would be there.

You've gotten an email on it. Oh, they haven't got those yet? Well, I don't believe they they received the schedule. They received the findings of the CIP committee and the original um, requests for them to look at. But I can I can send out the schedule. Yeah, Ruth, it's it's Paul from the CIP committee, and I'd like to suggest that um if it's possible this year, but certainly in the future when we uh uh put together the budget packs that the CIP section includes those items, includes the replacement schedules and the the vehicle list. That would be really helpful.

Thank you. And then Ruth, my last question, I believe, because I don't see anything else that I put in red, um, is we're talking about 2021. Um, but I feel like we didn't really touch upon 2020 very well. Um, did we make money? Did we take in money? Um,

so how are we sitting there? Yeah. Well, I haven't um I haven't had a chance to sit down and do all of the numbers, but the the dire um um projections of the funds didn't end up coming true. So, if you look, Calvin, can you scroll down to the bottom of your public works thing? Scroll down. Keep going. Keep going. Keep going. Okay, stop. Stop. Stop. Okay. So, if you look at the excise tax, that was one of the places we were concerned we were going to take the huge hit. Um and so in 2020 um we actually

did 960,553 which was only a8% increase over the previous year but it wasn't the the huge decrease that we were concerned about. We were concerned people weren't going to purchase new cars and so therefore we wouldn't have such a high um excise tax. um the um LRAP, the local roads assistance program, that went down a little bit. Um but most of the stuff was not significantly less. So I I think in the in the end when I figure out all the numbers, which I will get to by next Tuesday, um we are going to be in okay shape.

So is it possible that there's funding in savings because we did cut the budget so harshly last year that could be utilized for this year? No, when we cut the budget, we also cut the income. Had we cut the income, we didn't commit as many taxes. We kept the the tax rate the same.

We made the cuts before we sent the tax bills, right? We didn't take in as much in in um property tax, but as far as like you mentioned the excise tax and the other revenues that came in. Yeah. But so so the way that Durham does

it um we we take last year's revenues for this year. And so I guess I guess actually the way to answer the question is if you look at um the 2020 figures those were the amounts of money that we um appropriated for the 2020 budget right so his budget last year was 1 million 38,693 the excise tax was the 952 the LRAP was the 54 but we still had to raise the 31 930 so we raised less but We still spent all of the excise tax and the other stuff. All all of the other revenue got spent and we just lowered the amount that we took up in taxes.

Okay. So, so no, the answer's we don't have any surplus. Okay, that is all. Thank you. Yep. Um, hold on. I have a list. Alan, I saw you next. Alvin, uh, I understand on when we when Deerville was reconstructed, there was a lot of box cutting that needed that was done there. Do you anticipate that same need for other road improvements?

No, I don't see anything. Those were um those were the worst. Uh, that's why I put them last year and got them out of the way. These ones I have for this year should be pretty straightforward. I mean, of course, you never know until you get in there. Sometimes you find it's like, you know, any any type of uh um renovation job. You get in there and you find things you don't expect to and you have to fix them. But I they they they seem pretty straightforward shimon overlays this year.

So is is it true that at the end of the season there was uh some conflict with getting crooked to fulfill our needs for paving? it's always a push to get it done before snowflies. It's always right down to the wire, but I'm trying to get everybody done at the last minute. But

and pro probably a lot was it is it true that probably a lot of crooked demand was because we still had a bond that we were working on? Yeah, I uh well they were doing the bond and the uh uh our maintenance paving simultaneously and I don't know what their other commitments were with other other municipalities but

without having a bond this year that should take away some of the needs from Crook. Correct for us? Yes. Okay. Thank you, Rick. I saw your hand next. Yes, thank you. Um, so we must have uh health insurance rates for this year that are in already and you have zero increase in your budget. Is that

they they kept the health they kept the health insurance um even this year? They didn't raise it at all. Okay. Um, also on the on the wages, Kelvin, I know there's nothing in your budget, but if a wage is approved, it's going to show up in your budget next year and it's going to show that you're over again.

Yeah, it's kind of a funky way of doing this. Um over the years we've been trying to figure out how to do the raises um and be able to not be able to spread them out throughout the all the different budgets and figure out how to do that. And so what what they came up with was a raise pool. And so the raise pool gives a certain amount into this area and then it's and then whatever is approved is segmented out into the different budgets. So sometimes so so Calvin's budget in 201

19 increase in 19 there were funds in there for that um and so the the mechanics are a little clunky still um I haven't really figured out a way to do it better um but it will his labor line if he gives a lot of raises may look like it's short but the allowance for merit ra wage increase would offset that because because we're not a line by line budget we're a bottom line budget so as long as he doesn't bottom line we're okay

yep um the next thing you mentioned we don't have anything to give panel they can't just send us a bill for the for the work that they do I suppose I I don't don't know if they would be interested in that Um, I could I It's going to It's going to be a lot cheaper for us to rent a machine and have one of our own crew uh do that ourselves. I I I think.

Okay. Okay. Um, and then the the other thing which I've raised in your budget the last few years, and I know it's all the same money, but all the mowing in the town comes out of your budget. even though we may be mowing the fire department or mowing the town office, but it ends up coming out of your budget. Is there any way to break that down to see the cost that that you that

you take on for for mowing those properties? I would I I could put something together to do that. Yeah. And the employee that you have mowing, is that employee capable of driving a dump truck or doing other work and they're just tied up mowing because that's just a job that you've taken on?

Yeah. So, I've got a part-time guy that uh I use in the winter to plow roads, and it's really uh it's actually been a benefit in that it's um it's it's good that I can give him a little bit of work. He's retired and I can give him a little bit of work in the summer to keep him uh through to keep him to plow snow the next year. So, it actually works works out well in in in that way.

But he couldn't be driving a dump truck for you during the summer. Uh don't need don't need him to. No. Okay. Okay. Thank you. hand. Sorry. Okay. Um I saw Lee next and then after that Paul. So um my question is probably for Ruth or Kevin. Do we have an idea what our um

what our revenue sharing from the state is going to look like this year because that's going to affect our overall spend. So, the revenue sharing percentage went up a little bit, but obviously when the state does not have a ton of income, sorry, I'm flipping through my papers. When the state doesn't have a ton of income, um it's a percentage of what they take in, so obviously it goes down. Um we have

the way we we use our revenue sharing, um is we actually do it during commitment. um we take whatever we have received by commitment which is generally the end of June. So I have an entire year of revenue sharing we have in the budget uh in the in the assigned fund line right now $210,000. So I would anticipate um that by the end of June we

would be able to match what we appropriated for last year which was 325,000 um at least. Um, so it it I don't think it's going to be a huge hit in the revenue sharing. Okay. Thanks. I I asked just thinking about COVID and the effects that it's had on on on incomes as to whether we

need to go straight back to um to paving based on our original schedule or if we have to ramp it up back up over a couple years. That's one of the reasons for asking. Thanks. Let's go. um on the fuels. Are we going out to

where are we getting our fuel? Are we going out to bid through the COG process? Uh or are we getting them somewhere else? uh the last year's uh COG process um we were at a we were within pennies of the same price and I didn't have good luck in the past with the with the lowest bidder of the cog

you go through Burke Burke is often the lowest bidder are are you going with Burke or someone else? We're going with Dead River and it's been the same price for the last several years. We're paying we're paying uh rack plus 20 cents and that hasn't gone up. Uh so

here's one thing I will mention and that is that dead river is the only company the only large uh wholesale fuel provider I think that will lock in a price for you. Yeah. And uh locking in a price, it can be advantageous of course if you think the price is going up, but it has to be considered very carefully because of course if the if the price drops, you can lose. But it might be worth a call to Burke just to ask them what they're locking in at. Um if you have concerns and you know, you mentioned that you were concerned about fuel prices going up. Yeah,

I don't know if your concern is twofold. If it's volume going up and price going up or if it's primarily price going up. And I don't know how you do your estimate if you do your estimate based on gallons and an estimated price or just based on what you use let you know what you spent last year. But I would suggest, you know, going to Burke and just getting a quote from them on a lock in and, you know, evaluating that carefully. What you have, one thing that you do have to be very careful of on these lockins are lifting fees. You don't want to order too much because if you order more than you're going to use, then and you have to and you don't use it all in the period of time, you have to pay a penalty. But it is a way to to save a significant amount of money if um you project project the trajectory of you know of fuel correctly. A lot of towns do do it. Um

so you said dead you said dead river was no Dennis Burke. Sorry. Dennis Burke. They're they're like I think they're in Lynn Mass and believe it or not they drive these trucks all the way up here. The tankers all the way up here from Massachusetts. and fill up and fill up the towns and a lot of other you know big users. So in generally and I I would you know just look up uh uh Dennis Burke and ask

them to give you a quote and see where it comes out. I know they they've worked well. I know a lot of towns have used them. Gray uses them. New Gloucester uses them. A lot of others. Um and it's because they're really competitive on those lockin prices. So just just worth checking into. Um you know there again there are benefits and there are also some risks with locking in but it is worth checking out. Uh the second item I've got here is with regard to the paving. Are we going out to bid on the paving?

Uh that's a discussion I can have with the board. Um I'm I'm thinking so. Yeah. Uh I did get some numbers I did get some numbers from Kirker today and I've talked with the engineer and we're uh going to be presenting that to the board to

what what do well you know I guess my hope would be that unless there's some compelling reason that it would go out to bid um and you know which I I'm assuming would is uh part of our finance policy that those types of expenditures go out bid. What are you in your estimate? What are you carrying for a price per ton for asphalt?

Um, is it just a flat price? Just a flat number and you're thinking we're going to go as many miles as we can for that number. So, the last So, last year we were at 7760. This year they're looking at um that's going to be higher than that this year. We'll have to uh um get them to sharpen their pencil and give me their bottom line, but it's it definitely would go up at least 3%. I think just under 3%. So is your estimate is it based on tonnage or is it just a number where a tonnage and a certain distance of road an area of road that you're paving or is it just this is what I think we're going to need to keep up and um we'll we'll go

as far as we can. No. So I look at the uh per foot uh linear feet of road that we have to do and okay and I can I can count you have in your schedule I can calculate that based on the width the length the depth of asphalt for a 3/4 shim and an inch and a quarter overlay. I can bring that right down to uh the tons that we're going to need.

So so what are you carrying for a tonnage cost in in the 21 budget out there? Huh? Cost. Yeah. So, you know, you've estimated how many tons you're going to need. So, um, how many another way to look at it is, you know, how many tons are you going to need? And maybe, you know, I don't know, we could back the number out, but you must be estimating also a cost per ton.

Yes. For for the asphalt. Yeah. So, that was this year's number of 7760. 7760. Okay. Thank you. Um I guess my final question is on the the sand salt. What kind of you know what kind of mix? I know you know it depends on the condition what you know what kind of mix you're putting down whether it's a hot mix or whether maybe it's even pure salt but generally you know what kind of mix do you you spread is it 20% uh salt 80% sand

so we use u uh uh basically 100% salt uh sand u sand has zero um snow melting capabilities and it's it's the only time sand is uh effective uh is on black ice. It has zero uh benefits on on snow. Yeah, the sand isn't abrasive only. It has no melting capabilities. Uh in fact, it can inhibit the melting abilities of the snow. And this is what we're taught in all of the DOT classes, MDOT classes, main local roads will teach this salt priority that I know some towns still put the sand out. And I just uh I I and then I watched them all summer clean it up and it's like uh fills their ditches and then they're sweeping all summer and sometimes I have to wonder with some towns if they're just justifying the sweeping equipment. I I don't know, but I don't know why you would want to put all that sand on your roads.

Yeah. Well, you know, I think you guys do an amazing job. The the roads in Durham uh are incredible. You really do an amazing job. Uh I will point out that I have and and they're definitely improved over what they used to be. But um I will point out that you know we have gone through kind of a marked change uh over the years from taking the sand salt approach to the salt approach. And I know I you know I've I've taken some of those DOT classes and I I I know that's what they what they preach. Um but um just you know want to recognize that that it's true but of course we we pay a lot more for it too.

because uh I I think that uh that when you're mixing it with sand, you're putting it out at a much higher rate to get your salt application rates. I can set it to exactly two. If I want 200 pounds per lane mile, I can dial that right into 200. But if I'm mixing it with sand, I have to increase that number to get the same amount of salt. So, I'm I'm uh

y really putting out a lot more material. Sure. and and I accept that. I'll you know, I'll leave that to the professionals, but I you know, I just wanted to I just wanted to recognize that. Yep. Um so, uh yeah, that's very very good. Thank you. And again, you know, I think you're doing a wonderful job and you guys do a wonderful job with the roads.

Thank you, Calvin. Thank you. Yeah. Yes. Um, I have a two-part question for you, Ruth, regarding workman's comp. So, if there's a workman workers comp claim in one department, does every department pay more in premiums the following year?

Yes. a department has fewer employees the following year than they had the previous year? So workers comp rates are based off of salaries. So the payroll. So there's there's a certain um formula where they take a percentage of the pay. So, if you have $250,000 worth of pay, they take a certain percentage of that. Um, and then they do a bunch of other interesting calculations uh three or four times and then you finally come up with the final number. Um, and so, um, it's not based off of how many employees you have. It's based off how much you have paid your employees. It's all estimated at the beginning of the year. Um, and then they come and they audit you after the close of the year. um and then they will charge you extra or give you a refund depending on whether you've over underestimated um your payroll. So that's that's how it works. So if a let's say this year a department

has fewer employees than last year, obviously the payroll would probably be lower, but we wouldn't see a reduction in premiums until the following year. if if somebody were to not be employed any longer and I knew that there was going to be a significant decrease in the payroll, I could call the workers comp company um and ask them to adjust our premiums for the year. Um if it's not a significant number, uh then it would be caught in the audit the following year and you're right, it would not show up in in this year. What would be a significant number when we talk about fewer employees? What would be a significant number or reduction?

Uh probably it'd have to be somebody who is making it have to be a full-time employee before it would make any kind of difference. included in the payroll, but if there were, let's three, four part-time employees no longer on the payroll, that would not equate to a significant reduction. It

No, it it's hard to say without knowing what you're who you're getting rid of. So, so if you're talking like the fire department, if you if you lose like four or five of your guys, it's not going to make any difference because you're still going to have um people responding to the calls. So, the pay would just be distributed elsewhere. Um the other part-time positions that we have, we have our public information technician, um our planner, um and our the woman who

cleans the offices. Beyond that, there's we don't have a ton of of employees that, you know, we're going to see a a decrease in. Okay. All right. So, again, just I sometimes I just need to reiterate to my understanding, workman's comp is based on payroll, the the the the total payroll for the town. If there's a claim, if there's a claim from one department, then obviously we're going to be paying more for the next three years in workers comp. And that increase is spread across all the departments.

Yes. Okay. Is it evenly spread or or is it by percentage or or again based based on each department's payroll? So, so each department has its own payroll and and I included a sheet that explains the calculations in the workers comp and this but um but each department has its own payroll. So, say fire department. So, the fire department has a labor labor line and it has a specific um percentage attached to that labor line. So, it's a higher percentage than a lot of the other departments because it's a more hazardous job. So, that gives you the base number for the fire department. And then the town has a townwide um rate

uh and and I believe it's 1.87 this year. So that number is then multiplied by 1.87 and then that number is multiplied by something else and that number is multiplied by something else would bring you to the the final number. So so it's dependent on the payroll for the different departments, the the risk involved for the different jobs. Um, and it's it's based on um on what's they call a comp rate, which is the 1.87. And that goes up and down depending on the number of claims that you have. In the scenario you used uh with the fire department, if the fire chief were to underestimate his labor cost for the for this year, then would that would that affect work workers comp or or over um estimate

either way? Yes. Yes. Because those numbers are are used to forecast. So, so workers comp, they already have my forecasts of the numbers for this year. I do it every year in December. Um, which I can change after the first of the year, but generally they're pretty close.

Okay. Okay. That was my question. Thank you. Yep. Okay. No, that's fine. Rich, go ahead. Hey, Ruth. Thank you. I'm I'm I apologize and I think I see this every year, but I'm a little confused on the workman's call also. earlier. I thought you said the rate had increased um significantly because of a three-year average. Was that correct?

Yep. So, and then like most insurance companies or like you just kind of alluded to, you said you get audited every year. So, I'm just curious, usually you get a bill or a decrease every year. Why such a massive uh change this year? Usually that's related to um either you added a lot more payroll or you your experience rating or whatever you guys call it in the administrative world goes up and it increases a higher premium. So I was just curious as to why it fluctuated so high

because of the experience premium. So So it's not it's not the payroll that changed, it's the experience premium that changed and it's based off of the claims that have been made by the town. Um, and it's based on a three-year period of time.

Okay. Um, and it's a rolling three-year period of time. And so 2019 was our our bad year for us. Um, and that that year has now just been picked up in in the average. Okay. Thank you. Yeah, that makes sense. Um so with that said and just to circle back your experience rating like obviously our administrative staff is less than um so without going into your

budget and all that stuff are we seeing this across the board with all our insurance this year or just with Kelvin's department because I think the majority of our claims have been through Calvin's correct yeah but it doesn't make a difference it's townwide it it it affects his department affects other departments the fire department affects all the other departments You know, if I fell and broke my leg, that would affect all the other departments.

I Okay, I I guess I get it. I I thought we just I thought you just said that everybody has their own different experience rating and you pay less for administrative versus fire department. And Calvin, do you wanna do you wanna um stop sharing your your screen for a sec?

Yeah. Okay, I lost you. Okay, second. This might help a little Okay, so you can see on the top line. Can you see in the top line? Yeah, I put my glasses on and everything. Just making sure that everybody can see it. So, you can see on the top line there's a code and that's for summer roads repair and maintenance. So, that's the public works department in summer. There's a summer roads and there's a winter road section. The estimated payroll is 81 12ths of the year for

public works. So, oops. So, that's the two 214,000. This is the rate. So you can see that there are different rates all the way down through here depending on what department it is. You can see that the firefighter rate is the 10.57 which is the highest rate and the public works rate is the 6.82. So these numbers are all multiplied by the payroll which brings you to a what they call a manual contribution. Okay. So this is the experience mod. So this goes through the entire town. So we take the manual contribution which is different depending on which department you're in and then you multiply it by the experience mod which actually affects all of the departments equally which brings you a contribution with the experience mod. We get a plan credit of 0.05%. And then we get a contribution reduction of 103%. or 0 103 I guess it's yeah 0 103 which brings us to the contribution with reduction so so all of these things

affect the final number which in our case is 8 82,894 is what we pay every year or this year not every year that's what we're paying this year in workers comp and then that is is divided between the different departments so public works is the 33941 and that's the summer roads maintenance maintance plus the winter roads maintenance and then the fire department is the 45 and that's the firefighters paid and the firefighters volunteer which make up the whole fire department. Telecommunications is easy to just to to

separate out. So that's the radio and TV production and then all of the other um went into I I put it in my administrative budget this year because um frankly it it was much simpler to do it that way than to try and separate it out um into some of the other budgets. So that's where the numbers come from. Does that make sense to you, Rich?

Um 100%. I think where it doesn't make sense to me as far as like because I um I asked about all the departments. I understand your experience mod jumped. I think if we could put and I'm sure you have it in another sheet, but last year's rate compared to this year's rate and what that experience mod did for a differential, it probably it would have solved my question. But it's it's hard that you see the experience mod at 187 and you're you're saying, "Hey, that affects all our rates." like all our rates aren't the same for departments. And that's what I was trying to get at. It's like they kind of made it sound like all our rates were included at one rate. We were saying per per dollar we were paying the same amount of insurance per employee um versus that employees department. Does that make sense?

Yeah, it but it's a combination of both. Correct. Because it's based off your experience mod. I get that. But I just didn't know what that rate had increased her. Did everybody's I know the experience rate mod increased to everybody. So I'm assuming that rate went up sign significantly. I'm assuming we're at a much lower experience mod.

Um Oops, that went the wrong way. have it somewhere, but our experience mod may have been I mean they said it went up 52%. So you know to me that says That's I don't remember any catastrophic. You know, we have so many personnel issues over the years. I can't remember all of them, but I don't remember anything so catastrophic. I mean, that's almost like a you know, you see a 50% increase in workman's comp these days. It's almost like a death on the job. That's why I was just curious as to what what triggered that.

Well, the the the the trigger was was we had a gentleman who who fell and broke his knee. Yeah, I remember. And so that made him off of work for a while. So in addition to the operation upon his knee uh to reconstruct the knee um there was also uh you know work related expenditures.

Yeah. And that was that was 19 Ruth. Yeah. January 19. January 19. Okay. Yep. Okay. So it probably just got settled in 20 and that's why it bumped up this year. Well yeah it No, it's a yearly thing so No, I get it. Yeah. Yeah. But they don't they don't tally the bills instantly. So it's

I get Yeah, that may be why there's Yeah, there's a little bit of a lag there and that may be why that they don't have everything. Yeah, I got it. I if you get a chance and just for my own curiosity, I like to see the rates for the old

Yeah. how that translated over. Thank you. I can I can do that. Um does anybody else have any questions about public works or anything in his budget that I don't see anything. So, Paul, I'm thinking at this point um maybe just a short overview of the CIP um and your findings before we go into Calvin's um uh capital budget.

Yeah, I'd rather just, you know, at some point give the overview, Ruth. Um, I know we have a number of budget committee members here who aren't familiar with CIP, so I think it's important to give a little bit of background.

Yeah, that's I thought it would be good to do that before we get into his capital budget. That way it it might Okay, I see. Yeah. Yeah. A little bit clear. But hold on one second, Paul, because Jill has her hand up. origins of CIP, I'm good. If he was going to go over numbers, I was just wanting to make sure I knew where the attachments were to look at. That's all.

Okay. I I can share. Paul, do you want me to bring up and share the findings of the CIP committee? Not yet. Maybe in a few minutes here, but let's uh let's just start with the overview. and and I apologize for I guess I I have to start by apologizing to the selectman and some of the others uh who have either been on the policy the earlier policy committee because I think you know many of you have heard this before. So um first just to give you an overview of what it is. A few years back, the selectment approved a a policy for a capital improvement program. And this is a a way for us to plan for and prioritize annual capital expenditures. The program helps us make good decisions by first of all uh requiring department heads to have replacement schedules for their basic vehicles, equipment, and and major facility items. And these uh replacement schedules, they look forward 10 to 20 years and indicate where

reserve balances need to be each year in order to fund the replacements. So it doesn't just say, you know, you need to buy this vehicle in this year or that this vehicle is coming up in this year. It also says what the what the reserve balance needs to be in order to fund uh the replacement of those vehicles and equipment that we need for our basic operations and to keep up operations. So importantly, the schedules, they're not set in stone, but they serve as guideposts to help keep us on the right track. In fact, they're updated each year by staff and then reviewed and approved by the and approved by the selectman. Uh and so you know that's the first thing that happens each year is is the uh the the the staff the department heads together with with Ruth uh they revise their replacement schedules. They look at their replacement schedules and they they revise them as needed. They update them. So next, the program

requires that that at the beginning of each budget year, department heads submit applications for the capital expenditures that they seek to have on the town meeting warrant. So um applications that they're looking to have funded in a given budget year and uh that might be an application to raise tax dollars to put in their reserve account for a future expenditure. It could be an application to spend money from their reserve account or to raise money from taxation for a vehicle or equipment purchase. And the selectmen also have to review those applications as part of the process. So this is all the the upfront work annually before the the committee even gets started. Um this year's applications are in the back of your notebooks. uh just so you you know get can get a sense you might want to look those over at some point just so you can get a sense of the format of the applications and you know

the questions that are on there the information that we ask for um and it'll it will be wonderful I know Ruth has said she will provide also the schedules to the committee and the um the vehicle and equipment inventories. So and then finally the next the the kind of the the last part of the process is the committee. So each year during the months of November and December the committee meets and and what the committee does is it reviews the schedules and the applications and puts together a list of questions for the department heads. For example, have you considered this alternative or that alternative? How did you develop your estimate of cost? What's it based on? Um how would you proceed if the town was unable to fund your project this year? Those types of questions. Then the committee meets with the department heads to talk about the questions. Uh then at that point the

committee adjourns and each member goes off and scores each application according to the criteria and the CIP policy and they they do this separately. You know they go off on their own score they score the applications. Those scores are aggregated and then they're used to rank the projects to come up with a ranking a committee ranking of the application uh according to need. Um and that recommendation is provided to the selectman. And we do this ranking so that after the selectman and the budget committee have completed their annual operations budget and have a better sense of where we stand for that budget year coming up. You have a list of capital project and reserve requests that are prioritized by need. so that you can start at the top of the list with the priority projects and work your way down.

value for our money by using the schedules to plan and starting and really importantly starting the evaluation process for the request early each year. So really those are the two key components. the fact that we're developing the plan the planning piece and the plan the the schedules are the plan in this case and um which are revised you know tweaked and revised annually looked at annually and um but that also we start early we start the evaluation process early so that all the questions can get asked that need to be asked and uh and the projects can be fully vetted. So that's the background.

And Ruth, if you could if you could share your screen with the recommendation, that'd be great. middle. Let's see. or two other members of the committee here tonight. I think I saw uh Michelle on the on the call here and Joe Tom might also be with us.

Yeah, they are both here. Oh, wonderful. All right, hold on. I got to go find it. packets in that CIP section you'll see the recommendations and on the back of the ranking page and you'll also see on that ranking page the scores on the bank back of the ranking page you'll see a page of notes that also help to explain

why um after you know they were scored each application ranked as they did and so you know that I think that the notes will give you some some insight into some of the um additional considerations wonderful oh who who is the I in the notes

the I oh yes my apologies so you know the notes aren't really written it a committee member so our apology for the voice that that's not really written as a convey conveyance memo memo. They're individual uh committee notes that were compiled but we you know we all agreed on the f on those notes in uh in our in

our findings. So the I is, you know, that that's a statement that was written by one of the committee members, but it's a statement that everyone on the committee pretty much agrees with um as part of So it should be it should be we

should Well, yeah, it could be you could you can look at it as we Yes. here you'll see number one is fire and rescue air pack, number two is public works reserve, number three is fire and rescue apparatus reserve. Number four is public works single axle 1.5 uh ton dump truck and number five is town ad is uh

admin town office reserve. And then you'll see the scores and the rankings. Um, one thing you might notice here is public works reserve, fire and rescue apparatus reserve. You'll see it's virtually a tie. Uh, very little difference between those two how they scored. I think you can pretty much look at them as close to on the same level. I will say with regard to the public works reserve which was the number two uh project in terms of ranking um if you look at the replacement schedules we have a number of vehicles coming up we have a large dump truck coming next year and then the pickups and then starting in in uh 2026 we have a new wheeler you know a large plow truck or a large piece of equipment coming up pretty much each year for you know I I don't know the exact number but it's something approaching eight years in a row and this is because of uh you know

when we started the public works program so a lot of those vehicles are coming up and beginning in 2026 from when we started the program some many of the vehicles I'm assuming that we bought new when we started the program um so you know that was certainly a concern for us and um We have this, you know, we have the challenge of that when we do this process in November and December, we have no way of knowing how much FY20 unspent operations funds the selectmen will roll back into the reserves. And I, you know, I don't know if the selectmen at their last meeting if they rolled funds or not, if it's been done yet. Um but you know we don't have a way of um basically fixing the reserve balance because that hasn't been done at the time that we do our evaluation that we do our work because you know we have to start before the budget process starts.

Oh can I So can I comment on that question real quick? Do you want an answer on that right? Oh yeah sure. Yeah. right now. It's actually um there's a it's not an ordinance, but there because of it was a town meeting vote that those excess operational revenues automatically roll uh into the

capital reserves for fire and public works. It's it's not something the selectman actually do anything about. It just happens. But before COVID happened, we did have questions on the warrant to change that practice. Um but when we had to, you know, uh change things and do an abbreviated warrant that those questions fell off. But the board will definitely be um discussing putting those questions back on to to change that practice so that they extra operating funds just go to um you know undesated and then we

make a conscious deliberate decision about what goes into reserves. Well well that's excellent. That's great to hear. Um so and of course when we did this we had you know it's impossible for us to tell in November or early December what's going to be left at the end of the year.

So regardless of whether the selectment make the decision or it happens automatic we we're just not able to really make a a a good approximation until it actually happens. So, um, but I think what what we can say is that, you know, we're while we're not in a position to recommend a specific dollar amount, we can say that the application

amounts minus what's rolled back is basically what you need to keep those reserves funded. You know, that's what you need to be looking at to keep those reserves funded. Um, so, uh, you know, we can certainly if you know, if you'd like the committee to go back and or if you'd like, you know, if you'd like, uh, if you'd like us to do a better job of, of pinpointing those numbers now that we know what's rolled, uh, we could possibly do that. But I just think it's but it's important for the board and for the budget committee to keep that in mind. We're not recommending a specific amount uh other than uh you know you need to be thinking about what's been returned of course from the operations budget and what the request was. Uh the requests were you know pretty much were pretty much in line with the numbers that we were given uh with regard to where we need to be each year to meet the needs of the

replacement schedules. public works and I'm sure Calvin will get into that request uh in more depth, but it was for a uh single axle uh one and a half ton dump truck, something like a Ford F550. And uh our understanding is that one of the primary purposes of this vehicle would be to set it up with a plow and a wing so that it could be used to plow

subdivision streets to effectively plow subdivision streets and those types of things. And and I think the committee uh really understood the logic of the request and the need uh for what would be an addition to the fleet rather than a replacement. But I think it, you know, it scored where it did because of, of course, the other applications that it was being rated against. Um, but also because I think we'd like to see a little more thorough consideration of how the pickups have been utilized, you know, how the pickups are utilized and whether this purchase could possibly use be used as a replacement of one of the current vehicles rather than adding to the fleet. Um and of course you know it's not a vehicle that's currently on the schedule. So this is would be an addition to the fleet. Um but again the other factor and uh is

that it just you know of course it's rated against the other projects that we know we we have a lot of need you know only five requests but you know airpacks certainly very important uh health and safety concern with regard to health and safety. uh public works reserve. We got all those vehicles coming up in 26. And we, you know, we've got a wheeler coming up next year. Um that's 20 years old. That's a really tough one to push off. And then uh of course, fire and rescue reserve. We have engine 21 coming up in the 2024 budget. And then you have the public works single axle. you know, the public works request for the uh larger

uh single axle dump truck with the plow in the wing. And then finally, we have the town office reorg where we think that certainly that the project needs attention, but again, it's scored against the competing projects and uh perhaps some of the money that's already been set aside could be used to come up with a a project plan that we could build up. So, that's where we ended up

in terms of the ranking. And um I'm assuming tonight you pro you probably want to keep it pretty limited to public works, but it's up to you guys. Oh. Oh, if I could just add one more thing here, but I think I mentioned this, but I I think it's worth repeating. And that is, you know, part of the purpose of this process is so that um after the board

and the budget committee have gone through their operations budget that then they can look at this prioritize list and say, "Okay, well, you know, we have this is where we are with regard to tax rate or we have this much left to work with and these are the projects that we think would fit within our means or our ability for this upcoming physical year. So, we can go to the top of the list and we can look at how far we can work our way down. Of course, tonight, you know, you have the benefit of having Calvin here with regard to being able to ask him specific questions about um his applications. Thank you. Okay, Calvin, I'm sharing on my screen your public works capital reserve page. Can you see it?

No, I What do you see? Ranking. I'm still seeing the ranking document. Okay, hold on. Let me let me redo this. not really good at this. Uh, share. Okay, now do you see it? Yep. Okay. So, why don't you tell them about the two projects that you have on here?

Well, one's a project, one's a reserve request, right? This is a different format and um so looking at uh we have 121821 um balance in the in the reserve account. Um $37,932 of unspent funds from the uh budget for 2020 will go back into the account bringing up to a total of 159753.

Asking for 95,000 be appropriated for the uh uh uh the the um 1.5 ton truck with a wing and plow. um and and asking for 100,000 to be raised in taxes at town meeting leaving the balance of 164753. going to bring up your schedule.

So, do you see a a green Calvin? Do you see the green thing that said public work schedule? Okay. So, so this is Calvin's um schedule for the CIP committee. Um, and so this shows the truck this year and then it goes down by year

where he's proposing that he's going to probably be needing to replace those pieces of equipment. truck. The so we have two problems right now uh with public works is that we um we need an additional truck. Um we have uh I have uh split a crew. So I

have uh I have a crew on one road, a crew on another road ditching different places and uh doing different jobs. I find that's most effective. I get the most uh uh mileage out of that. Um the problem with that is um that

if we need to if the mechanic needs to go get a part, if the mechanic needs to come to the job site to fix something, if he needs to go get a hose, um he can't do that. He has no vehicle. Uh, if I get a call that a sign needs that a stop sign got knocked over, needs to be replaced or a tree limb fell in the road, um, I don't have I can't send one guy with a truck to go fix that. U, I have to basically shut down an entire operation by taking that truck. Each site needs a truck that's fully equipped with safety signs uh, to set up the u, it needs to be moving all the time because it has to they have to move the signs along as they go along. uh combs and all of that. Um uh so and then if we uh are mowing, I have to find a way to get the lawn mower moved from sight to sight. Um so it's really uh problematic in that just we're one truck short. So that's one problem. um in solving that problem. Uh and I

know it was suggested perhaps that we could just take the 2023 one ton and just uh exchange that, but that wouldn't solve the problem of the shortage of trucks. Um the trucks that we're using to the the the two one tons and the pickup are not really designed to plow the volume of roads they're plowing. We're plowing miles of roads, subdivision roads and you know roads less than a mile, but that's still a long ways for uh for a small plow. And um the plows really show the um the wear and tear and the trucks. They're really not they're doing far more than enough to these are plows that are made to do with parking lots and driveways, not public streets. And so, um, the what we've always wanted since we began, uh, that we've always said would be, um, a great asset to the fleet would be a, uh, a 550 one and a half ton truck with a wing and plow that's made by Viking Saves or HP Fairfield. It's

the same company that makes the uh, plow gear for the uh, for the for the wheelers, the big trucks. And it would have live hydraulics. um a side dump that would allow us to put out salt in a calibrated way. Uh that currently with the trucks we use now, you just turn them on and they you have no idea what they're putting out. You find out later when the road's bad that you got enough out or you didn't. And um so it would solve two problems. One is that truck would be designed to handle uh the plowing of these roads and would really help uh keep the big trucks on the on the big roads and uh and it would also uh help on the wear and tear. These smaller trucks could be, you know, doing the parking lots and some of the uh much shorter roads and uh

cleaning up intersections for the big trucks. Um and um so that would solve two problems. It would give us the additional truck we need because we would be able to use that truck in the winter and in the summer for construction and it would uh um also help uh uh cut

down on the wear and tear on the smaller trucks. And that's uh that that's what we've come up with. Okay, Rick, you have a question? Oh, sorry, Kevin. one tons that need to be replaced. What What year were those purchased, Galvin?

Uh one's a 2008. Uh that's that's the one you drive. No, that's a 2015 was bought in 14. Okay. And we have a 2500 uh one ton. That's also a 15 uh one ton. And then 2008 red Ford, that's the one that's slated for uh 2023.

Okay. The the 2015s that were purchased, you were employed at that point. Those are purchased under you. No, that was uh the year before I got here. Okay. That was uh what was purchased to start the operation. Okay. All right. Um, I'm going to push going forward to to have uh, you know, dead-end streets and that stuff to put those out to bid to be plowed rather than tying up our public works crews. But I guess there's not much we can do about it this budget season, but but maybe going forward rather than us continuing to purchase more vehicles, you know, I I guess how many employees do you have?

looking for what was that? You're looking for one truck per employee basically. Uh no, we have five full-time employees and we have uh a range of part-time employees as needed that we call in during the storms on call basis.

And again, I'm not sure where you're buying your parts. I don't know if it's NAP or what, but those places don't deliver any parts. Uh they do. Sometimes we have to go get special uh parts made or specialty hose made or uh you have to uh they they can't get it right now to get the machine up and running. We need it right now. We can't wait till tomorrow or

go get a part at John Deere or um Omni or Traction. crews working which you're running machinery or you're in your pickup truck available to run I bounce I bounce back and forth um or I'm meeting with the contractors or Okay thank you

Kevin um am I unmuted? Yeah. So, Calvin, what about the suggestion that or um I don't know if it was Paul's actual suggestion, but he mentioned there was discussion about um this being a replacement for something in the fleet rather than um an additional truck. You know, if you're if this allows you to pull I think everybody agrees that we do a really good job with the roads. So, we don't we don't we don't have a shortage of trucks to do the roads and I'm talking about winter roads right now, right? So, if anything, you know, I would argue sometimes that we're like maybe too good and like we're I see the truck going by my house like three times an hour, it seems. Um, but why couldn't that truck conceivably replace one of the bigger plow trucks? And so instead of six large plow trucks, you'd have five large plow trucks and this um 550 to it would be

better as you say in some of the smaller roads, culde-sacs um where you said you would pull the big truck out of there anyway. So why why wouldn't that work? We would need the big truck to stay on the main roads that have uh you know,

but you don't have it there now. So you you're you you're getting by. You've got a big truck in doing culde-sac roads, right? Or am I the pickups and the one tons try to get in there and get them as much as possible. And

I thought you said earlier that that would that this would allow you to pull one of the big trucks out of the um we would keep the we keep the big trucks on the main roads during the storm. Uh would keep them it would keep the the main roads uh clear and they could prioritize on the main roads. You don't think so? In your judgment, five large trucks wouldn't be enough to do the large main roads if you had this other truck to do some of the smaller um roads.

No, we would need all the trucks that we have now uh to continue. The only thing that that truck would do is it would uh it would it would would help us keep some of the smaller trucks at the intersections and in the parking lots and um where they're designed to be.

I I I would not want to pull a big truck off off a main road. Uh I I have a short question for Kevin. Would it be possible? I'm wondering for things like, you know, I understand the crunch with regard to parts. Sometimes you need a part. You can order it in advance, but you know, of course, some things maintenance items you can order. Um, but do we have a policy regarding reimbursing for mileage? Say if the mechanic took their own vehicle to do

Yeah, that's a good question. I I that I was just thinking the same thing, but I I don't know if we have an actual policy, but if not, we can certainly put one together because I think Calvin, I think you can I think you could almost convince me that buying this bigger truck to replace one of the smaller pickup trucks would make sense because it would be more suited to the what you're using it for. But I I struggle with we need the extra truck so that we can run to the part store in the summer. Um I I struggle with that.

Well, this this this this truck would not be going to the part store. It would be it would be probably the older red one ton and and you know and I could extend that up. We could keep that longer. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Great. Next question. I'm good. Thank you.

Mike, you're next. of this has already been touched on. I mean, I've been on the budget committee now for this is my third year. It's the first time I've heard of not having enough trucks uh in the fleet to to do the roads, but Kelvin, I think I also remember I think it was last year um you were talking about wanting maybe 5 to$10,000 for just kind of a a beater

truck to do pull the mowers around, do the you know the things that you've talked about. So, I guess I'm just curious how we go from wanting a five or $10,000 feeder truck to now needing a nearly $100,000 additional truck with all these other things. Um, a lot of what you you had mentioned that you could do last year for 5 to 10 grand. So, I'm just curious as to how that came about. Well, the uh the the other truck wouldn't give us any added benefits other than uh running for parts and things like that. The this this truck would solve two problems. And so

finding a used truck for5 or $10,000. Um um some people weren't receptive to that. So not not receptive to five or 10. I don't think you're going to be receptive to 95, but We'll see. understanding um a truck versus a truck. So, Kelvin, I'm hoping maybe we can just literally go back to the basics for a second looking at this vehicle list. Obviously, the none is this truck that you're requesting for $95,000. The next one is obvious to me that it is a plow truck. Um the 2008 Chevy 1 ton

that's listed as a 3500 dump truck. What is that currently used for? Uh that is a um we have two one tons. The one underneath it the next one is also a one ton. That is u used for uh the crew takes on the road to do construction. We haul materials. We um um that's what the crew uses to set up their signs and take with them along the way. All compactors, heavy equipment um or smaller construction equipment tools.

Um it plows in the winter and um that's that's what it's used for. Okay. So then the 2015 GMC you said is also a crew truck. Yes. Okay. And then obviously a trailer is a trailer. Um the 3500 flatbed. What's that used for?

Okay. I'm sorry. The uh 2500 pickup that was that's my pickup. The one that was underneath that last uh the one that was underneath the uh the uh 2008 truck in 2023. So the one4 was actually my pickup truck. um the trailer. Uh and then the uh 3500 flatbed is a um it's um another

um 3/4 ton dump truck. And what's that used for? That's uh same thing. That's um that's used by the foreman. It's got all of the uh construction signs, tools, uh cones. Uh, it's set up to go out to a job site with all of the tools and safety signage equipment.

Okay. But it doesn't do any plowing in the winter. It does. Yes. Every truck every every truck we have plows in the winter. Okay. All right. And then obviously a riding lawnmower. I'm familiar with that. Um, and then we have two more plow trucks. Tractor tractor. And then another plow truck. So, we currently have, as you guys are talking about big trucks, am I correct to see that we currently have one, two, three, four big trucks as you guys keep labeling them?

Six. They're not all on this schedule because they're not the schedule goes out only 10 years. So, we have six big trucks. Yes. Right, Calvin? Yeah. Okay. So, I I in what you were discussing, you were saying that you're splitting the summer crew, so you need to have two crew trucks. Isn't that the 2008 and the 3500?

Yes. So, you already have that? Yes. Okay. And then you still have a truck. Yeah. Okay. So on top of the just double up roots with a couple of trucks. having 10 trucks out plowing Durham roads. How many miles of Durham roads do we have?

76 miles of of uh plow plowing roads. So that's 7 and 12 miles per truck plowing. Well, the pickup trucks aren't doing seven and a half miles. I It just seems like having 10 plow trucks on the road for Durm seems like a lot of trucks.

more. Okay, thank you, Kevin. I heard I saw your hand. Yeah, just two things. I did want to, you know, to Paul's question earlier for anybody that did isn't noticing the chat. We actually do have a mileage reimbursement policy. I'm reminded because our code enforcement officer uses um his own personal vehicle and gets reimbursed for for mileage that he uses. So, um, we definitely, uh, do have that policy. Um, and uh I I'll also

point out that uh a few years ago the town the public works used to actually run seven big trucks and we we challenged uh Calvin to u bring that down um to six because the the roads could be done um with six trucks. And um this this uh feels like it would be like adding that truck back, you know, um because it would be an addition to the fleet after we, you know, already went through the process of culling a truck from the fleet. So, um I guess uh I understand the utility of the type of truck and I could, you know, buy into, you know, when the when the 2023 truck comes up for replacement in 2023, not 2021 that we consider

replacing that truck with something considered more suitable. But, um um yeah, I guess that's it. That's my thought. your hands up. Is that No. Okay. Um, anybody else? No, I I um real quick, I mean, this is just in regards to looking out at at the schedule um of replacements. So, Kelvin,

the truck that you drive is the 2015 3/4 ton, right? Yeah. Okay. So that's scheduled to be replaced at 2024. You have a estimated budget of $70,000. Um just curious as to what trim level we're buying um for that truck. 70,000 seems extreme for what should probably be just a base model uh pickup truck. I I would think I don't think we would need a SLT or Denali trim

model for that, would we? Which 70 grand is is the price. I mean, I know you're talking three years out, but No, I mean, they're very expensive. Pickup trucks are uh Oh, I I bought a brand new one in 2018. I know what they cost. And

uh with the with the plow package and u uh everything that that would have on it, that was a number that we I got from a dealership. So that that would be the good budget number to use. Okay. I mean, is that just a base level truck?

Yeah, it was no no real no real bells and whistles. All right. Base level trucks run about low 40s. So if it's another 30 grand to put a plow on, I I don't know what plows cost. I don't have a plow, but is that 30 25 grand?

Well, these are these are four-door quadc cab trucks. Uh uh I I I my my personal pickup trucks 60 some thousand dollars with uh just basic. So I that's that's what I have spent and so when they gave me this number I didn't question it.

Okay. Been a few years to figure it out but it just kind of struck me. I I do applaud the CIP committee that everything they've done because certainly in my years of being on the budget committee, we never had forecast out for years for equipment throughout the town. But one, there's always a butt, isn't there? uh in looking at our total budget when we went from in 2018 to 2019, we had a 2.9% increase in taxes. Last year, we held our tax rate. Right now, when we're looking at this budget, we're looking at an 11% increase in taxes if we accepted it as is. And that's not acceptable. So, at some point, we're going to have to make some adjustments here. And this is based on the conversation that we're having, it looks to me that if we didn't expend that $95,000,

we could utilize that to the $100,000 is going to be needed next year. So I I you know we really have to be looking it's it's great to have feedback from individual departments but looking at the overall picture too. Um I should add Alan so we had five we only had five requests this year and so those are the five requests ranked. We're not recommending that one project or the other get put on the warrant. Um, we're just giving you those five projects ranked and that's up to you in the selectment to make that determination with regard to what goes in the budget.

presented to us was basically it certainly appeared that we were that 11% increase. Is that what is representing all of those CIP recommendations? No. No. Um Ruth has just given you everything together to show you what the difference would be, what the increase would be if everything was included in the budget, but it was not it's not CIP's recommendation to have all those items put in the budget. Um, as I explained earlier, the intent here is for, at least from CIP's perspective, is for you guys to go through the budget process and do your operations budget and then see where you come out. You know, how does the tax rate look, where are you, and then think about how far down that list you want to go, you think you can afford to go this year.

Kevin um question on and again sorry I missed the beginning of the meeting um when you probably u o overviewed this that 11% figure is is that an estimate tax increase uh is that just a municipal budget or is that an is that an estimate for everything?

Hold on. Let me pull up the the overview because um looks like looks like everything the school counties are is in there. So, all right. Here's you made some assumptions about um school and county and all that. Yeah, I made an assumption of a 3% increase in the school and a 4% for the county. It was actually 7% last year. Um so, maybe a little low. It's hard to tell. Um but yeah, that's for everything involved.

Yeah. And you really need to keep in mind that um you know we by cutting out that much from the paving last year, we really negated the effect of the first payment of the main municipal bond for the 2019 road bond. um we knew that that was going to increase the tax rate. Um and in 2020 because of everything that was going on um we we shuffled some things around uh to keep the tax rate even.

Um and so the looking increase is part of that. It's in that 11%. It's kind of like even though the first bond payment hit for that most recent hit last year, this budget is the first year that the town's like going to feel it because it's on top of a quote unquote normal operating budget. Whereas last year, we essentially cut the amount of the bond payment from the operating budget. So it everything kind of washed. So, it's it's it's almost like even though it's not being added this year, the impact of the bond is being felt um in this budget that wasn't felt in last year's budget because of the cuts. So, okay. Thank you.

public works tonight or the CIP process? keep going and who wants to call it a night? Who wants to keep going? hands mean stay or go? Raised hands means you want to keep going. All right. So, I guess we're finished with public works and the CIP. Um, the next meeting is next Tuesday, right after the select board meeting, which will be 6:00 to 6:30. The budget meeting will be 6:30. That will be fire. We'll see if we can't get through fire quickly and get to all the other ones. And then, um, if we need to have the meeting on the following Thursday, we will go ahead and do that as well. Is everybody good with that?

Is it separate Zoom invites? Yeah, they're Oh, for the the the select board and the budget meeting next week. No, it's the same Zoom invite. The same Zoom. Okay. Rick, did you have a question? I do. going forward. Um, will the department heads be available so when the budget committee, you know, when we do our our meetings by ourselves, will they be available so maybe we could hold some of our questions for for that time rather than and maybe we could get through more of more of these budget requests.

Um, I think it's probably better to ask as many questions as you have. Okay. and and you know, if if you have additional questions, you can um email us. Um and and if there's anything that we really need to address, we certainly would show up at your meetings. It's it's uh it's easy enough to

push the button. Thank you. Anybody else have any questions before we say good night? All right. Good night, everybody. Have a good weekend. Good night.