TranscriptSelect Board Meeting ~ February 13, 2024

everybody uh welcome to the uh Durham select board meeting uh we have a quorum this evening uh with Mr Josh Klein golden um um uh dismissed not pro not not not available for tonight's meeting um I'll stand for Pledge of Allegiance [Music] please Al to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for

[Music] all okay let's see any amendments to the agenda tonight Jerry do we need to but anything in a certain order for us to move forward toight okay yeah I'm not okay well uh public comment um and see old business uh proposed amendments to part three of the land use uh ordinance subsection 184 B3 which I believe is in our

asked George to do last week on the second page of the packet the underlying part number three that says would you like me to read it on part number three yeah select board shall establish fees for all permits where permit Fe fees have not been specified within this ordinance but the town performs Services required for its

okay that was the catch all that Josh was talking about correct establish something this gives the authority there to address it other thing that I'd like to address about the fee yeah hang on I'm just I'm just reading the sentence before we before we go on to that okay

here somewhere it's kind of a runon else I think if you wanted to put a comma after ordinance before butt you could but yeah I I don't even think that helps it but but question but I don't think it really changes it it doesn't change it legally as often runs on I

think it I think it works for what you're trying to achieve I think it's beled out pretty clearly I don't think the ordinances with commas in mind we might be here do that I can tell you that right now not do the Oxford comma whatever Google puts in

is I don't like the butt and I would probably get rid of the second permit there um but I get why it's there I'd put a different word in for but and I can't think of what word I might put in there this within this ordinance

isn't novel language I'm guessing George probably grabbed it from standard ordinances you use elsewhere so I'm comfortable with it shall establish fees for Town perform Services where permit fees have not been specified within this ordinance period get rid of the end of the last

sentence is what I'm proposing like what shall establish fees for Town performed Services where permit fees have not been specified within this George's language it it reads make you more comfortable no it it accomplishes the same thing so shall establish fees for all permits where permit fees have not been specified within this ordinance by the town it it unfortunately it reads funny um I think changing the language thinking that it's going to accomplish the same thing highlights that it's not a big deal the language stay now it's

accomplishing the I don't I don't really see a lot of ambiguity yeah I I guess it really does do matter yeah standard comma versus whatever other comma the way I read this is if the if there's if it's not listed above and we provide a service it's like we can charge the Fe for it and it's based off our conversation last time the intent is to just capture if there's something missed like Josh mentioned this is after 99% of most legal

leave it do anybody have a motion can I bring up the thing that I wanted to talk about about this so if we go back to the first page under number two where it says all permit fees shall be established in a fee schedule adopted annually by the select board when we put that on the warrant article to change it um the wording that we used was periodically and so I would just like for all of the wording to match that's what the town voters approved the last time instead of the word annually it was listed on the warrant as periodically and that's what we approved and I would just like that language to be the same are you saying it said periodically in the in the last warrant in the warrant question it said periodically what does it what's it say

it says which's number two number okay so right here B2 and right here is the word annually and the warrant question said where am I the very bottom uh to see if the town will enact amendments to land use ordinance is set forth in the document and then list the document to allow the select board to periodically set fees for permits and applications based on the analysis of actual costs and comparisons and so now what we're doing is making that change to the ordinance and I would just like for that word I would like for the wording in the change to read the same way the question does okay is that this year's that's last year's question yes could you just I'm sorry either I could read it or if you could just repeat it one more time yep so to see if the town will vote to enact amendments to the land use ordinance as set forth in the document and then the listing of the of the landish ordinance

to in article 18 which is what this is to allow the select board to periodically set fees for permits and applications based on the analysis of actual costs and comparisons with similar towns and then here we have it listed as annually and I would just like for that language to be the same to again go back and get rid of those places where we've said one thing and the language doesn't match I think that's I think that's a great idea M it in lines with what was previously adopted and should that's right way to go periodically kind of seems like it gives a little bit more flexibility too it might not need to be changed annually it might need to be assess more than annually yeah you might rope yourself in depending on what's going on okay change

there I move we the 18 submission for 18.4 permit application submission requests with the edit of changing annually in sentence one of paragraph two to periodically second do I have any other conversation any other comments okay all in favor in the usual manner okay motion carries 4

Z status this all the way so may I start Jerry sure yeah yeah so we we we added this um I think we were asked a few weeks ago to add Union Church status um uh to our agenda just to follow up with our discussion on um when we when we I'll say shut the church down Union Church for uh usage um um I I

did ask uh for some clarification from uh chief trip uh he provided us with a letter indicating um what's been done um uh basically I'll read the letter if you'd like this department conducted a fire inspection on the Union Church dated August 10th through 11th of 2023 all deficiencies have been addressed and corrected this would include numbering and outside out the outside of the building updating and testing the mon and the monitoring fire alarm system storage concerns within two feet of the ceiling excessive waste and storage on the floor and extinguishes BR brought up to date um and he continues on is currently the town still owns this building as the fire chief in conjunction with the co Department we recognize this occupancy is being used for storage the town is allowing a third party group to store and categories its belongings uh while allowing the membership meetings in business while

while allowing sorry I town is allowing a third party group to store and categorize its belongings while allowing that for memb ship meetings and business according to the current building code in use if you invite the public into a building where you can fit more than 50 persons in the space you are considered an assembly currently town is not inviting the public into the space on change of ownership and or change of use other building code requirements could be required so that said what we're asked is the building is still closed and and does the board still um deem The Building closed based on the the current state of Affairs we know the building uh is structurally sound we had that structural analysis done I know we have everybody um moving to put it on the warrant um in the coming um coming weeks here um in uh for town meeting so is there any change of use that the board would consider at this point um other

than for storage and um use for just meeting of the Town employees as the uh the committee that's really the question on the table here yes EV so is the historical when we say meetings is the historical society H allowed to have their meetings there well that's the thing is they could have their meetings there now they couldn't invite the public to them so that poses a problem because they have to have a public meeting so they'd have to have their meetings in one of the public areas that's accessible and have all the proper safety gear is that the histor hisorical District commission or the Historical Society no the historical district commission okay so I'm asking about the Historical Society they the ones that we're going to transfer to they're eventually the ones we're going to transfer to and they're the ones that have all the stuff there which is what I'm assuming they want to be able to

have their meetings and there yeah then they they can they what what I get guess we're getting at is that yes I don't think there's anything wrong with them having their meetings there as long as they're not inviting as long as they're not inviting the public I I think that's probably um um you know it's no different than the use they were using for they were using it for before

um um but the yeah the the district commission would not be able to hold their meetings there they'd have to hold it one of the public venues so um just we did close it officially as a board so the question is we've been we've been basically asked can we open it back up for them to use as their their little meeting in place yeah so when I read this y my concern goes to like our liability and so I'm not sure about this

I don't know maybe Jerry or someone has Insight is allowing a historic district committee to meet different than allowing an organization that is not tied to the town so if we say it's open to the society is that technically opening it to the public because they're members of a of a public public Society just like any other Society that's not a town Affiliated organization and that's where I'm just like not that I expect anyone from the society to cause any issues but if someone does get hurt or something like that and then it comes back like well you were letting members of the public go in there because it's like if we open it up to that Society could then I just for a lack of for an example the Masons who are non a society say well we want to use it you know and that's where I'm just wondering where that line is I think we're confusing public with public assembly well so what it says here and this is this I don't

know if this is a typo it says where you can fit more than 50 persons not when you're inviting more than 50 persons so in my mind if it is a space that can accommodate 50 or more just the act of opening it up to people makes it a public assembly that's how I'm reading it it could be a typo it could be wrong I just want a little bit of clarification there I think that if I

we closed the building because we weren't sure about the structural soundness and now we are I well we were also concerned about things like uh forms of egis right that sort of stuff yes so what I would be comfortable with is because I know that the historical society that that is doing this work which I think that they're trying to get done before town meeting is typically five people and so I would like my my

you know one of things that I would like to put out there is that I would like to be able to open it back up to them to be able to do this and if we did so with a caveat that like they're not hosting any events they're not having more than their small amount of people that are there to do the work that needs to be done to catalog these things ahead of town meeting I mean I don't want to see it get open so that people can go in there and tour it before town meeting gets held like I don't think we should be in that kind of situation but I think for them to be able to get in there to do their work I'm I'm board with

that and I get that I want that as well but what I'm concerned about is what we want versus what we can or should do because my concern is seeing as it's a society that's not a body of the town if we say yeah you're allowed to go in there is that us technically opening it to the public because we're opening it to a subset of the public well they are they are the occupants of the space well I'm just yeah I mean that's why I'm trying to get some clarification yeah go rich I I personally this is my opinion and it's probably not necessarily all opinion either this this board doesn't really

have the authority to keep them out of that building if they're not changing the use if they're utilizing it for what the town set forth and the ordinance that they gave them the rights to use it the only people that can prohibit them from now going in there is a safety or code officer which is the fire chief but this board this is out of our hands mhm this has nothing to do with us they have the right to use that building yeah that's where I'm just asking for the clarification but we voted to close it I don't based on we can't close it yeah I know but we we we ran into this in the past with condemning buildings this board doesn't have that Authority um the board has to listen to the fire chief which was his recommendation and therefore we agreed with him but once he writes this letter and says they're free to use it back to the use that it was it's really not our call and and I did talk to I sat down with the fire chief

um the other day for about 20 minutes and talked about the letter to make sure I understood it well and and that's that's exactly the the small group the intention to let the small group in is is fine from his aspect he just doesn't does the Gathering we just that can't happen so I don't think it was ever intended when the town gave that to be used as a gathering space or else we right but but as far as the tenant because it's a tenant they have the use there's nothing stopping them right now and I don't think we legally can't ask I mean that was my question is that is it considered now public use but if they're the tenant and we're just saying doesn't even sound like we get to make this decision well they can we can just say they can resume what they were doing which is basically might the only people that can kick them out is the town the town not the board granted them permission to utilize and be a tenant of this building

meting it's a town meeting so for us to for lack of better words evict or prohibit their use outside of the fire chief's recommendation Andor safety officer we don't have that Authority in my opinion right so so really we what we're saying is we no you don't that answers the question that I had so we made a decision to close it based on safety assessment of the building I think we're at a point where we can say that we can safely open it back up based on all the data that's been presented to us and this this final letter from the cheat that we it's it's up to the standard that the the town would accept for for its small use by at Society on a regular basis moving forward without any Gathering they'd have to come to us for a gathering or no different than anybody else at this point yeah I would agree I would just say that the building is allowed to be used that is now allowed to be used for

its intended use for its intended occupant yeah I wouldn't get into the stics of anything of that nature yeah that's fine I just wasn't I was yeah no I get it I asked all the same questions last week and I was concerned that we were putting ourselves in a liable situation we the body of expertise Chief and Co I think we're so since we took a vote to do that do we need to take a vote to undo yeah I think we just take a vote to undo it just to put it on the record y yeah so would somebody like to make a motion or you want me to make a motion first why don't you go make a motion because I'm not exactly sure how I want I was just going to make I'll make a motion just to allow the historical society it's a historical society and or is it just who who did the town Grant was it just the historical to allow the Historical Society to resume their previous operations therefore granted by the town of dur okay and I will second that any

other further discussion all in favor okay that's a unanimous vote okay so they can go back to cleaning up the place and organizing as they were doing before and having their meetings any other use they'd have to come and see us about okay budget articles voting on the 20124 budget articles I'm sure everybody may have watched or seen we

have an update to the numbers here um the budget committee um I could run down them quick or did Jerry did you have something prepped that you want to run down no I just provided you with okay what the budget committee did yesterday Mark the BC and then your what you had previous okay yeah so the budget committee um voted um to approve the public works for 205 which is the same number $180,000 for fire department $10,000 for admin and buildings 160 for assessing so they went up by $20,000 um the 160 plus60 is the $220

bid we or quote we got from the one bidder for doing assessing um I will note that that assessing currently would not take place until 2027 um but um the budget committee did vote to uh put all that money aside for for the assessing uh bid that we received um on Monday yesterday um grants uh they approved 2 2,293 um they they they did discuss the Union search again they didn't give us this number before but 9,543 so they match the select board uh Eureka Reserve $50,000 which matches the select board so that g brought them to a grand total um with that added uh value of uh uh basically $100,000 um up 90

it right other than it's just an additional use of a fund balance of another 94,000 that's correct no they made some other changes as well um the operation on the operation the operation side they did yeah but as far as the toal for the capital yeah but as far as the total property tax levy the number is still coming out to 8 27 the Lev is the same but they increased transfer out of fund use up to 628 th000 whereas we had it in the that's correct yeah that's what I just said yeah right 94 94600 They just added an additional 94600 coming out of that but they had some other changes they made in the um operation budget as well all right go ahead Jerry so today we noticed that there was a bid sent by

email for a second bid a second bid so I think B is going to reach out and ask them to submit it through paper yep like they said do we know what the cost of that was 190 190 instead of and I and I think at some point you still have to bring in both companies to talk to at least you have a budget to to go on right so we we have a budget number the budget committee 220 220 220 versus yeah

so yeah and I agree we I agree that those two companies we should have them in to discuss um have us at least a presentation of what they what they're proposing to do was do you know the we have can you tell us the amount of the second one yeah 190 oh I'm sorry did you say that I missed apologize so so we had a second a second bidder uh that came in um for $190,000 versus 220 for the first bidder that came in uh in a more formal manner so and was were they also 2027 yeah the one that I opened today Donna's got the the the paper ones I haven't looked at them but the one that I looked on email is going to be delivered April of 2027 okay so it's it'sin the same same within the same year basically the same year 2027 for both of them doesn't mean we can't get them earlier but it it it's for planning purposes that's that's when it would occur if anybody were to at this point ask what the date was of the Year 2027

that assessment would be done okay and is 2027 because it would basically like put us in the queue in a weightless type situation y yeah they're busy most they're really busy you just can't get them so the only way you'd get in there would be if somebody fell out because something else happened is more than likely the the scenario you're looking at did they say how long it takes them to actually I haven't had time to review the whole so they so don

is looking at the proposals we'll get the second proposal in front of her she'll look at all that and then we'll invite them into our meetings to uh and Rich I'd ask you if we for assessments if we usually had them come in before uh we haven't done an assessment during my tenure um there is a there is a bid policy you don't have to accept the lowest Bid And so so it is open to discussion y so that's kind of why we even felt even with the single one because before I knew about the second one we bring even even the single bidder into don't there's all kinds of things that you can whether it's a local whether it's there's all kinds of different things that bed on this is this is really quite a process no yeah no I realize that definitely have them come in just to talk four to six months yeah maybe so okay so there were goad Joe you add something no I was just so we mentioned there was a couple

other items um oh yeah no so I was just saying that yes they increased grants to one uh sorry uh assessing to 160 y but their number reflects changes made to um some of the things that we had adopted at the previous meeting right so we had adopted all of Jerry's um yeah recommendations based off of actuals and added $5,000 to the solid waste um contract uh budget to bring that up to 380 so our total increase after adjustments was 33,8 75 they adjusted

Theirs to only be um uh 20 it was 28 one of our numbers by 2500 decreased another by 700 decreased another by 275 and then another by the assessing what have we done it has Town put money in there twice for 120 no just the one for 60 yes okay

mhm there was a second time that they took 60 Grand but it just wasn't allocated correctly right it was the way they uh so they didn't they didn't raise it and they just transferred it out so when it didn't get done it lapses back laps back into the general yeah originally that 60,000 I believe I believe Donna was going to be able to do it it was it wasn't for a complete like a market e which was significantly L and it was like $120,000 my understand they were going to do 60,000 three times to get the three years in a row to get the money that they needed and then the second this would have been year three yeah but in year one or year two they it's like the same thing with Union Church transferred didn't commit or whatever and it went back to General my personal opinion is it's a little premature to put that basically pay for the whole thing now being that it's not getting done till 22 to 27 that's what I

was thinking rich is that if we're talking about trying to level fund some of these improvements I doubt I mean I haven't done this before but I doubt that they require payment in full upfront um and so I'd be more inclined to you never go for that you wouldn't sign off no he's not sign off on I bar want painful at the end you know um so I

think it would be I mean it when we get to this discussion line I think it would be better to look at just continued flat funding of that hey you could advertise it out for the next three or four years right funding it all right now well especially because if the policy changes to allow us to pay for things as they

come up you know we will have enough money to get them started and you know if if it if they require a third UPF front or something like that I just don't imagine they're going to invoice us you know April 2nd 2024 for this and keep in mind like we're going to have our town meeting and then so best case scenario we get them into the very first meeting of the next select board to start the process they're not going to need 220 Grand that day this is be several months before we even signed paper with them I would imagine yeah no I was I was envisioning something like whatever you have you know the total was 220 or whatever you would you would have it all completed by let's say if they're going to do the evaluation 227 have it funded by 226 however the denominations you want to do it but rather than basically funding the entire project right now for something being done and taxing for 227 yeah seems a little and this is more in

line to me of what we're trying to do trying to get away from saying oh this is an expense we're going to pay for it all put all the money aside right now this is saying let's just you know put away a little bit I mean until we get there so I'm I'm I'm agreeing with you but yeah no I I mean I could I could see it different ways like I I could look at it like hey you know but it's not going to last forever you know you can put it in a CD and get a threee CD at 4 and a half% something like that that was the other thing that you could do something like that and that might make sense I depends on the flavor I would do something like that but it just depends whether we transfer or not the money is not spent so you can still put it in right just whether or not alloc allocate it's just whether or not you want to fund all of it this year you the tax taxes that's that's the only thing that I and I think what they were looking at

is that we we is to utilize some of the fund balance we have uh to fund it now and not have that come up as an item that you possibly have to raise later versus you know but mean not a lot of course but I think fund balance won't really typically change whether you use it now and you don't use it now and stays in stays there too right yeah you have 3.5 million in the fund balance or you have 3 4 million in 100,000 in this

account no I don't it is I think it's 6 a half dozen the other littleit other than other than having the numbers be the same on between the budget committee and the uh select board if we if we just go with what their number is I I could be Sting the way um I think it' get changed to be honest with you if you leave it as is on the floor what's that I think it'll be changed on the floor if you leave it as is oh two separate numbers oh absolutely yeah I don't think it'll pass I think it'll pass but I don't think it'll fly the way we have it I think that uh I think the way we have it it would I think excuse me the way it's right I think funing the whole thing right out of the game if we went in with two numbers it's going to come down on the floor yeah question about it I mean I think that we're all trying to accomplish the same goal just proposing doing it slightly different ly you know they're trying to say well

in 27 we're going to pay for this anyways let's just put all the money aside now we're saying let's break it up and the sake of us trying to get to a level funding of these sorts of expenses I I think we just should break it up and I think information we have they don't have was they were budgeting for 220 it's 190 and I know that they're concerned about amounts and you know well it could be it could be 220 it could be 220 it could be 190 they didn't have that information do you have input on what your what you'd like to see happen either full fund or me it doesn't really matter to me you're not breaking any rules or laws or CU you're not raising it that's that's the way it look you're not raising it spend a transfer you know if if it's all

on how you want the Optics of it at Town you want to use that much money do you it's just yeah it's just I would bump I would bump our 60 up to maybe a hundred is what I would was thinking and and just to add a little bit more now that we know that we're in the 200 range and at least you know we we we've got the we've got 60 there put 100 that's 160 you're almost there and then regardless depending on what bid we go with based on the two numbers we have in front of us you'd raise the rest later but I I think my opinion now now that I just heard Jerry and just thinking about this out loud and everybody's discussion I actually just fund it it's not it's not being great we're not taxing anybody the money's already there we're just moving it to a different bracket so it's not spent on something else it's not going to be raised we're not raising taxes over this if we were raising taxes I'd be like whoa whoa that

might stop the presses on the floor but now that I think about it we're paying with this with our money so we're just moving it to a different we're just moving it to a different bucket and into the interm so we preserve it so we have it when that comes I get that it's accomplishing the same thing it just makes me kind of beg the question and again we can go either way with this but makes me beg the question if we're going to say let's fully fund this why aren't we saying just move even more of the the fund balance into public works reserve and AD admin reserve and fire department Reserve we have that schedule of things that they want so like I'm just I'm I'm playing devil's advocate here so devil that to to answer only because I've seen this happen like I I use the fire department as an yeah and I get that's more conceptual right you have like a you have like a 10-year apparatus plan right MH that word's not used as much as

it used to be but it used to be very common word those things changed the schedules changed for example we one time we were in massive discussions and it was about a 50-50 split about replacing the ladder truck and it got a referb like 3 years later that was the new uh the chief's latest first responder truck that was wasn't on the schedule 3 4 years ago and then so things come up and those things those things are fluid so I would I get that it's much more fluid versus this being a fixed expense so really six six one half doz in the other here I just this we know we're going to spend I don't think we have a we don't have a choice yeah we always have a choice if we want to buy a truck I'm I'm I'm stressed about the fact that we're not going to get it done until 2027 cuz we're at what 67 right now I know there's nothing I know there's we can do about it but like by 2027 like we'll be lucky if we're still

at 50 mhm yep yeah probably so especially with the way the housing market markets going yeah yeah so I mean we can all we can do is have have the staff try to get that done earlier once we approve this money and and and go with that yeah maybe we'll get lucky and somebody doesn't approve it in their Town budget and we get bumped up we get bumped up in line that would be the only way that's the only thing I can think of Y I mean I think that I think that that's a a reason to fund it right and also not not not to I

don't like the term selling point but I think that that's an educational point at town meeting to communicate is that the longer that we wait not that we have a choice right but if we're in a position where we could go sooner because someone else doesn't approve their the money would be there then that that allows people to get a higher homestead exemption than what we would be if we don't fund it in time no but you rais a great Point like what if they can do it in 2026 or you know something that that's a really good point yeah yep makes sense I think that's the way that it needs to be communicated at time and if we've got two quotes and this is budgeting for the greater of the two okay if we end up going with a cheaper one we well that might be why you want to discuss both of them right maybe you say hey if you can get it done quicker maybe that might determine which one you would like to take yeah yeah but I'm

just saying is if we only have two quotes and we're hoping to EXP the process will want to budget for the higher of the two so it's there the town can always put the money back to wherever they want to use it right that's what I mean it's better to have the 220 and go with the 190 than have 190 and decide we want to go with the 220 and one other I think that's advantageous to funding it all is it's kind you can look at it as a as an initiative you fund it all it goes away next year so when you're doing your budget next year that falls off so really all your funding is depending if any more initiatives come up next year you have none all you'll be putting it away is Public Works fire and admin build which is$ 395 yeah total it's a good place pull the band off not 616 so you're so you're cutting that Capital down by half I'm

I'm I'm good I mean like I said as long as we're not if we're not raising it's hard not to do it we know the expense is coming so you might as well put but everyone everyone wants their homestead exemption and we can't give it to them until we get this Stu so so so while we're here and we've had this lengthy discussion do we want to land on a number right now and then like vote on this number that we want to use here while we've just had this lengthy discussion about this we can we can do that or we can just what's your thought he um I I'm ready to make a motion go ahead I'd like to make a motion to um raise our assessing dollar amount to 160,000 to match the budget committee which would give us 20 20,000 total in that assessing Reserve um second second Joe seconds any

further discussion on assessing and we can get this over with all in favor okay motion carries 4 $160,000 to assessing which matches the budget commit committee meeting um uh budget committee number um it makes the most amount of sense okay now there were Joe you mentioned a couple other changes there yes so they said byy line items line so we had five changes that Jerry

presented to US based off of actuals yep that was line 27354 dues and subscriptions we had budgeted 12,000 actuals came in at 14,1 166 and then Jerry had proposed last week 14,500 which we accepted and the budget committee accepted that as well so that's that's the same right line number the second item that they voted on um security we had budgeted 1,600 the

actuals came in at go to 1,800 which we accepted um they voted that down so even though they wanted to budget 1,600 even though the actuals were 1,700 is there a thought process that that that process of giving the building away might not happen until if our time Mee it's not till April it might not happen till June or July so they ended up voting it 7 to one down um but that

just is you know a slight you know slight change for them so we might we currently have a different number than them we're saying 1,800 um they're saying 1,600 so we're talking $200 on a$1 million budget can I interrupt you for a second so um this is th this particular one is

the municipal building so I'm on page four of 15 and this is a this is one where it's going to be its own article 21 7362 is that what you're on I'm well I'm looking at that security line is in municipal buildings right and so now I'm on page four of 15 where the total article amount is four

of 15 municipal buildings page four of 15 no oh stop stop stop I'm looking at page 45 and that's not what's on my page 4 no Heather's saying that the total line for municipal buildings we have a $200 discre I yeah no I realized that okay so I just didn't know what page you on I'm on page four of 15 either of our budget or the budget committee's budget page four of 15 and it says municipal buildings oh there it is right there their number is 22235 and our number is 22435 which represents that $200 difference now I am bringing this up right now is because that's going to be a budget article right municipal buildings and so I think what makes the most sense is for us to take a vote on what we want to do with that total figure yep if everybody is in agreement rather than rather than go right this is where there's a difference so I think and just we address it article by article that's going to get voted yeah I

agree because if you I mean the the numbering convention is this the budget line is 21 7362 right but that's all of you know that 21 is line 21 and then that next number is what makes up all of these right but so that's the only one in this section so I think it makes sense to do that right my thought process is I'd rather budget based off of the actual you know

I expect that the town will vote to give the Union Church away we don't know when that will happen or how long so if that cost falls off of us I mean if if the vote goes on April 1 to give the town the budget the the the Union Church away what's the earliest that we're now not paying a security Bill there I mean is June even reasonable or is it more like July I think I think that'll be I mean first of all it's just going to be a quick clean deed and you could you can do that there's no leans or anything on that building and they can they can it's going to be when you guys want to as a board sign that over and so then the question the security the the security cost there you know do they drop the bill right away by x amount of dollars because that you know that would over to them they probably get their own account right so what I'm getting at is I'd rather just budget the 1,800 for it um

it it we're talking $200 here um but just my thought I like in the um I like having the same numbers but at the same time I think on this small of an article my preference would be to have the same number for $200 that I I completely agree with what you're saying and had they agreed with us and it was $200 then I would be like great all well that ends I mean it seems silly on1 million budget to have a vote on a $200 discrepancy right I I mean I I hear what you're saying I just think this is one of those times where it's only 200 bucks and it just makes sense I mean that's fine too that's typically what we've done in the past you know what I what this format's great but you know in the past a lot of times where you'll actually get all the Articles written out and then it'll be the budget committee and the select board's recommendations and before it goes to the print we can change it you take a vote to change it and it's much

easier to follow than you don't this has the potential in my opinion you can miss things where once it's laid out and the actual warrants are actually for lack of better words prescribed to the question at hand and the dollar amounts are in there much it's much easier to to make it not even a decision but to to catch everything and I mean there's no rule that says we have to be in syo with the with the budget committee yeah I get that so I'll just I'll make a motion that we um

21 to government to 68,000 6899 191 in our budget well no because there's a $200 discrepancy in the planning oh sorry yeah so I'll vote that we let's just is it okay can I make a friendly amendment that we just stick to municipal buildings thank you and that so let's just do municipal buildings and then we can do planning and code and then we'll come to our total number because each one of those things is its own article so the next one is 2 27 is that how they're going to do it yes Administration is it own municipal buildings is its own assessing is its own information technology is its own planning and codes is its own correct yeah if you look um yes it'll be laid out

so this is for so so I'd like to make a motion for sorry just point of information so you're saying here on page four there's four different votes each one of these I'm talking about when we go to the town when we get that when it looks like this right that's what I'm asking yeah so sorry it's three because there's no culture and recreation but are you saying the vote is on each one of these sections General government public safety Public Works service on the warrant article is going to read what whatever the jargon is to see if the town will vote to appro uh raise and appropriate for the administrative budget $473,000 $656 line 20 line 21 line 23 line are all going to be their correct

okay so you want to make a motion you want me to make it well so then you're saying we would make a motion just to accept line 21 yep and then move through there so yeah I'll move that we change Municipal budget from 22435 to 22235 to match the budget committee recommendation second that right I got motion from Joe got a second from Heather change our disgruntled I make that disgruntled position any further discussion that was my comment okay all in favor all right motion carries 4

Z changing our SLU wood number to 22235 for line 21 of General government for municipal buildings okay next item is is uh was uh dues and subscription they also had a I believe a $200 difference there it was a little bit more we had budgeted 600 originally and we brought that budget oh yeah sorry it is 200 200 we brought it up to 1,500 to reflect the $1,280 actual they brought it down to 1,300 closer to the closer to 1,280 yeah and The Same Spirit as my

comment on the last one I would make a motion to change the planning and code enforcement budget to match the budget committee's recommendation of $124,600 do I have a second I'll second Rich seconds any further discussion all in favor all right motion carries that number changes to 124,000 $300 which uh changed our budget

number to uh believe it was $1,300 to match the budget committee is on that line item okay um next item was uh what health insurance line 30 Tac 7055 um uh budget committee did not change that number um their's matches ours matches ours yep there was Zero change there and then the last one was Solid Waste um line item 42

7231 for solid waste and huling I believe we came we were at $375,000 we were at 380,000 I'm sorry we were at 380 um they they've now proposed um 375,000 which was a $5,000 difference only because they wanted again to get closer to the actual to of 361,000 that

posted to us um Joe um I move we stay with our number of 380,000 so we can dis my motion so we can discuss this second for discussion all right second for discussion so my thought process here is I listen to their meeting and their their point was that um we had we're under our current contracted price until for the first six months of the year or something like that and then it will increase starting halfway through the year and so their thought process was because if you do 5% if we expect if we know that it's going to be a 5% increase minimum every year because the contract is 5% or the Consumer Price Index is that correct Jerry yeah whichever's higher and so if you do 5% of 361 it's yeah so it's going to be 5% you know 361 304

number is I had proposed 380 and we accepted it the budget committee's point was that um the first half of the year won't see that increase price because of our current contract and that won't kick until the next half of the year my but I had already specifically asked Jerry that question if he had split the contract and he had said yes that I'm telling you what the budget committee said yeah yeah no I'm just saying that was I had asked that question of you did you do the six months and six months and you said yes and so then we were basing it off the 5% of that have been already been done so I am in agreement that stick with our number but the other the other thing that I was thinking of which um some members from the some members of the budget committee brought up as well was you know this is an estimate off of a projection of tonnage the tonnage could be higher and we could end up paying

more my thought process is people are generally throwing out more things now I don't know what the trend is for us if our tonnage is increasing much annually um but we have more people living in town so just to play it safe is where I put that came up with that 380 and and I'm more comfortable with that number than trying to skim that off right here so that's my my reason for the motion but you may all say it's $5,000

why why father voting on it at the town meeting it's just an argument so I just want to make the motion for discussion purposes I mean I think it's the same problem is you're going to walk in there and of course they're going to take the lower number

regardless of you know um of what number we put out there you know tonnage is tonnage and yeah the tonage varies and we know the price is going to increase so I understand that they might take the lower number or the town might take the lower number but I still think my thought process is our responsibility is to try to create a budget that reflects the number and so at least giving them the presentation saying we think that this number better reflects what the cost is going to be and the community can say well we don't care but if it is if we both go with the lower number and then is higher I don't know what the feedback would be like why didn't you budget for that I don't think either you know it's an it's an estimate based on

on what we have for raw numbers either number is correct it really doesn't matter either either is incorrect it doesn't right it's it's it's completely just like throwing a spitball against the wall it's an esate understand that and and so it's like I would say go in with the same number and call it a day and the number's going to come out whatever it comes out to be and the town's going to have to pay it and if we're a little under then we're going to have to raise a little more money next year if we're a little over well we're good you know where if we we estimate under I should say right if we estimate above then goad um we are on this warrant we're

asking for money to cover an overspend article for fire okay so if I'm just saying for discussion purpose if we wanted to present it that way that th this is all the logic behind our number and why it's higher and here's an example of where the lower number is what went to the town and now we're back before you again asking to raise the money to cover that overspent article and so if we're budgeting ahead of time we don't have to come back necessarily to ask for the money to cover it I I think that that's a point that could be made to to justify what we're trying to do I don't I don't care I'm just saying I just don't think that anybody wants to spend two hours on the floor arguing over 5,000 Bucks have you been to the last and they will and they will if we put the two numbers out there it just makes no sense the numberers irrelevant yeah when I I don't think the number is irrelevant we we should we we can say oh 20,000 if we

what I'm getting at is I don't think it's it's worth pitting the budget Committee Against the select board over $5,000 it really for this for this particular stamps I get what you're saying yeah I mean just so when I when I when I did the when I did the math I did the six month and six month and it came to 372 using the same tonage in 23 so I bumped it to 375 do you know if our Tage increased from 22 to 23 it's actually excuse me during Co

the tonnages went way up Mak now they're coming back down so it's hard right so it's a guessing game which I understand and I'm guessing it's going to be $380,000 that's and so we can have a disagreement on that we all have to pick a number we could say oh let's do 300 and if we overspend we overspend and we ask for it next year we could say let's do a half a million so we don't overspend I get that it's all an estimate that's what budget you know budgets on variable costs are I'm just advocating for $380,000 and giving the reasons why and so I can't recall on the on the trash how much of Are We raising versus how much is coming out of is it all raised well well it's all kind of because we're transferring to C we're not I mean yes we're raising but so some of the money that transer when right and so that's where I'm taking is a part of how it's being paid for I just think that 380 is a better estimate of what

the cost is going to be and I think we have the responsibility come up with a better estimate you know if people want to I I know it seems silly because it's $5,000 on 11 million budget but I'm just thinking that this is a better number I to to utilize don't disagree but I don't disagree the other component to it that one would argue is that the town is not strapped for cash so if there was an issue we can just pay we could pay it but authoriz you it's right but wouldn't we have to just point of clarification wouldn't we next year have to say we overspent on this budget line and we' have to have that vote even if we have the cash flow we still have to come back and say you would still inform the town but you you would still pay you could still pay $5,000 without having going to another town meeting right right I get that we can make the payment but then at the next meeting we do have to come up

and we have to disclose it they're see we over spent by x amount yeah you'll have to ask them for that just like like Chief's spent article is like 3,000 right we paid the bill but we still have to you pay the bill you can pay the bill we I'm not worried about paying the bill yeah I'm just trying to get us to a good number that is a realistic estimate and I just think that 380 is a better number than the 375 I mean we've already gone we can go through a nickel and dime and take a $100 off everything everybody feels comfortable $5,000 is is is um is a is not even a rounding error in a$1 million budget so as far as which I get but we we just talk about $200 no I know so I mean I have no problem just so everybody's clear making it 380 because we either spend it or we don't I I have I'm fine either way I think I think you're servicing the people either way I think I think they know that it's I

think they know that it's it's it's kind of like a commodity number that's con maybe we'll get it higher prove us wrong don't throw anything out I mean it could I I feel like the challenge the trash challenge well I yeah this is I want to have a bigger conversation about trash but tonight something no t i not the night okay so I made a motion I made a

motion made a motion seconded it all right all in favor $380,000 okay motion carries that was easy hopefully the town floor thinks it's as easy if not it'll give him one thing to argue I would argue it too much on the town floor i' let him throw a number out and just go with it they they they do based on last year they do argue a lot less when the the numbers and the're they're the same or close I mean but what I getting that is it's probably again not the hill to die on the easiest thing to do here is say this is where we came up with this number this is where they came up with their number make your choice the one thing the town has been pretty steadfast on is trash ago we got rid of bulky was day and then this year it's like no no we want bulky

so we're staying with lower the two numbers budget committee is going with 375 so that's the only place I believe that we're different at this SP at this point we added 1001 100,000 and then we took out 400 from our budget so we just made a total net change of

to them yeah so we added 100,000 to match the budget committee on the uh assessing we agreed with them on the two instances of decreasing our budget by $200 so that's a increase of$ 100,000 a decrease of 400 but then we kept our original 380 so that should be the only 3 changes there add 100,000 subtract 400 okay so what what what does that do with our use of fund balance that would bring our fund balance what line you on uh page one and it's not it's it's it's the 53 533

so it should be 633 we are adding $199,600 to our additional use of fund balance which brings it to oh right right right right 533 875 + 996 633 475 you should have just let me say what I was going to say because I was saying it before said 533 no I was I was doing the I was saying it 633 475 but it's better to the

calcul I always do that I always mix up a couple numbers 633 475 yes is what we would propose to transfer from the that makes sense because that's $5,000 more than what the budget committee that's reflected in the solid waste perfect I'll probably get vot down

charges five more more for trash thr away this 28 yeps up okay yeah Allan ra some good points those barrels what's that that's a whole another you're going to dodge that one rich um I think one of the things that we need to discuss and establish is that um when we're talking about the capital reserves we began a conversation about how this was going to look on the warrant I I think well I don't really want to have this conv anyways that this all has to be listed separately like this is its own question public works for 25,000 they are yeah they are they're not grouped there was there was some discuss we hadn't established that yet we started that conversation but it didn't get finished yeah and and and the the budget committee did vote for the final number um last night just in case we decided to combine it together but that's kind of OB at this point because we just changed our final numbers right so they have a

different we'll just have to so we're going to have two no these aren't tied to the same thing that we just did it to these are separate I get that yeah no sorry I'm I'm I'm talking about the other stuff okay the only one in the operation that'll be different will be solid waste will be solid waste right that'll be the only but you really do have to write articles so you can let the residents know where all these need AR y y so I think the way that we voted before how we went Administration this amount municipal buildings this amount I think that we need to do that we need to do that for the capital reserves yep I agree now that we have all the numbers laid laid out and that's what the budget committee said last night too they'd like to see those as individual some of they voted for that but some of them felt the other way but they voted for it to be individual they voted on the individual articles as as as what they

would be which means Chief and C won't have to get up and speak extra I me because it's going to get be asked on each one of those so no I hope hopefully not I mean it's just you know we're I think I think we have a good enough explanation on why we're doing it this way so for just for the administrative part of it would you like me to just run down through each one the motion for the okay so I'd like to make a motion under the 2024 capital reserve account request that um the budget no the Public Works um account is 200 that the how do

you want me to say this you're you're working out you were doing well until you said how do you want me to say this the uh select board recommendation would be $25,000 have a second 5 Seconds any further discussion all in favor okay public works $225,000 for selectman's Budget okay I'd like to what

I motion I was a second sorry sorry Jess um I'd like to make a motion for the fire department Capital Reserve Select board recommendation to be $180,000 second okay I got Heather motion Joe second all in favor that's unanimous motion passes

I'd like to make a motion for the admin SLB buildings capital reserve account select board recommendation to be $10,000 Second Joe seconds any discussion all in favor motion carries anyone else want to get on this motion we did assessing already we did assessing I'll make a motion that we um evidently somebody does what's that I think keep going buddy no go ahead I'll make a motion that we um selectboard budget for Grants at $2,293 Second Joe seconds any discussion

all in favor unanimous motion carries I'll make a motion that we uh the select board raises or utilizes 9,400 $543 for the Union Church second I got a motion I got a second any discussion all in I got a little discussion what's that I got a little discussion how how we wording that that's a good question that's why I said so I was thinking about this last night because with your discussion on it being it's like it feels a little like we're putting the cart before the horse but at the same time we kind of gutu so we word it right and so if if it wants to be a gift and I think that the way this is doing it is it's moving it into their Reserve account which currently has 21,000 and then we're going to have to go through the work of somehow donating that Reserve account to them correct as a gift well the the way it's described is the only way we can give this money out of that particular account is if it

is going to be used for public use so what you're saying is we would have to transfer money out of the reserve account we have to transfer this money back into the general fund in order to give it to them that's correct because there's no argument that can be made that this yeah I see what you're saying and so this would be we would have to essentially have somewhere vote to raise 9,000 raise or appropriate or whatever

21,000 and change from the reserve account back into General funds raise this to put it in with the Union Church account and then a separate article to move the $331,000 over and then a third article to donate I think that question has to be before we donate the building though yes I agree so we need to put the money in the account Y which is what this we need to vote to give the money to them yeah and vote to give them the building yeah and there we can do something in there where it's contingent if you don't vote to give them the building they don't get the money four articles 90 90 but either way I think that this is the right place to raise the money so 95 it is to ra

place to raise M to give the money no this is the right place to raise it cuz we're going to raise it put in that Reserve account and then separate warrants are going to move it to where it needs to be because I agree with your assment that's the right place to raise it as long as the question is before the there's the order is important the order is very very we transfer the money and then this goes in after so once we get that drawn out we I got to cramp sorry yeah no I think the order is important there but for tonight Jerry that might be one of those things like um like we I think correct me if I'm par if I'm offline here but I think the board's intent is we want to give $9,000 to give up to that $31,000 uh we recognize the public use what's the best way possibly Consulting with the town attorney that we should uh execute this on the town warrant based on the Dilemma at hand whether we give

the building to them versus because of that public factor of the money now yeah now that you know you have the numbers and we're going to vote on the number here then we can craft can I just while you're thinking can I say something really quickly is that okay abut um I think that by doing this and and doing it to the account so that the account is at the 31,000 right and then if for whatever reason the town doesn't vote to give the building we have $31,000 in that account to be able to use towards exactly right correct when l or Draw we need to have $31,000 that we need to have 31 it needs to be before the question of giving in the building but it needs to all kind of coincide and flow in the right manner legally that's that's that's the issue here what you're saying we need to get this 31 we need to vote to to give them the building and we need to vote to move this money out of a reserve account and then vote to give

them a donation yes that's the way I it sounds silly that's the way I think that's the only way it can be the only way it can be done and it has to be done in that order just to pass the straight face test because we can't pass that test by saying this money is being used for public but that order that I just focalized operates under the assumption that they're willing to accept the building without the money because if we give them the building and then the town does not vote to move the money we know they they already sh which we do know but that's I'm just vocalizing yeah but in the same token I mean I don't think it will come to that but you could vote to give them the building and then the town later says no we're not giving the money and then when the town meeting's over they might say well we don't want your building and we keep the building we still need the money so it's yeah it's a risk there's a risk yeah but at

the end of the day this ends up with the money the right amount in an account that either get the money the order ask from a legal perspective the best way to word it CU I honestly don't know I just know that we on this one as far as the Mon's go not the not the church itself but as far as the Mon's go we we need to make sure that our duck certain order on that and do it the right way so let me ask a couple so where is the where is the 9,000 coming from general fund general fund y okay so they're not raising it we're not asking for more money spec directly from the town this budget period where we're going to we're going to transfer from the general this is essentially reallocating the money that we raised last year right so I'm just thinking out loud so you we couldn't ask to just donate

the 31,000 from the general fund well Rich you still you could right once they have that right then you could ask to move this if you have to ask I don't think you do I think you could just move it over right yeah that's good point we there's other ways to skin this cast that's why I understand you're saying now you're down to two questions I understand what you're saying but that's going to get complicated because if we do that right now what we are saying is that we're going to we're going to have to change this 9500 number to 31,000 and we're going to say we're going to raise 31,000 to give as a donation and that's going to be different than what the budget committee well but you already got 21 so you're just basically putting it back into the general because if and I could be wrong what I'm understanding you to say is we can just give them the money out of the general fund they get the building and now we have a reserve

account for a building we don't own and so we just take that and move it into general fund which we have to wait a minute pause that's a reserve account and we have to vote to move it out of the reserve account I don't think you do because you didn't have to vote a town meeting to put shingles on the roof and you took but the account would no longer be needed right the res and that money would be sitting in there and so the only way to get that money out of there is to is to vote to move it out of there you wouldn't be able to move it I think Heather might be right there because the reason the money is in there is cu people voted to put 21,000 in the reserve account expressly for that purpose I don't know if we can just say remember when I was saying the thing about the Eureka restoration fund and the whatever and the answer was that we had to vote to move that money out of that allocated account right this this

is the same thing but the entity doesn't exist anymore Eureka sen is an entity that still exists right but this with the Telecommunications budget it's the same thing we have to vote to transfer Mone money out of that account because we've already put the money in there we voted to put the money in there we voted to put the $21,000 in this account I get that but what if you got rid of the Telecommunications account if there was no telecommunications account you wouldn't necessarily need a vote to put your money back in order every time that we've asked the question before the answer has been that we have to BU no I agree with you but I don't think it's because we got rid of an entity like the Telecommunications or but like take for example the old home days and the old you know like when we had those all those little accounts where we we voted to put money into those accounts when we wanted to combine

all of that and close those accounts it was a warrant article that read right and didn't that warrant article change the power of the board though I don't think so no no no no this was like a because it basically it basically collapsed a lot of these little miscellaneous things and put everything into a into the general into the general right right which is what we would essentially be doing with this because we didn't have old home days anymore and we didn't do whatever these other I think we're saying the same thing like this money I think automatically once that entity doesn't exist would have to go back to the general fund right but we have to vote to do it but Jerry's point is that would be we even if we did have to vote it would be fewer votes than what we just proposed we have four votes here but my only concern here is that now we're adding in it's technically a $31,000 gift well that's what I'm saying is now we're

adding in language to say we're going to transfer $31,000 from the fund balance to gift at to the like it it' fall under community services and donations we'd be adding $31,000 there to gift to that organization and what I'm saying is I get that that it does the same thing but the budget committee hasn't put that in there so then they're going to now have to meet to say oh do we we need to comment on them doing that it's a trying it is an easy e way to solve it but now they're going to have to meet they're going to have to do the same thing have the same conversation yeah but I think I think with this we're just trying to take the $9,200 here $9,500 and moving

that moving that into the larger bucket what we do for an article after that in regards to the donation we need all that money you still want all that money in the one place because get the building right it would be in there you still need it the it's still the justtin case scenario right we'll have that money aside and then we're going to go whether whether the lawyer comes back and says take it out of the general fund directly and then just have this roll in or or or something different it won't

matter and we don't have to go back to budget committee and is the the mechanics of how to get the 31,000 I think is what we're more discussing than this 95 this vote getes us to 31,000 right I think we just need to get to $31,000 and then then the next article can maneuver that money however we want to so the 95 the 95,000 that we're going to ask 31

whole why don't we just ask for that put it in into that same restoration account just and just leave it there and then when the like we said when they do repairs will pay it out of that account because it's not a building and be using money for something that's not which is getting to is that he's not entirely sure based off of what the lawyer said that that would count as a public use so if we're trying to pay if we're letting them do the repairs and we're paying for it out of that account yeah if we can't pass the straight face say that it's for public use we technically can't cut those Che the money right and so this this would what Rich's point which I agree with is that like we need to figure out a way to give this as a gift because then you don't have to pass that threshold it just has to be a charitable donation just getting to the wording that's why I would just say Jack how do you how do you massage this because we

know we can't directly give it directly give it through this particular fund because it's not necessarily we're making a charitable donation to The we can do is the two boards is to fund that up to the $31,000 level recommend that which is what our motion is and which I in the meantime work it out with the lawyer and then maybe get back to us and then the Articles meeting I'll yeah that's fine I'd like to call a question yeah all right so we have a uh question on the table here a motion on the table to uh for

and I had a second from Joe all in favor okay motion carries 9,543 was it raised or removed over I'm sorry transferred I'm sorry transferred we we're not doing the warning for the AR this is all that it's tough to say transfer because the amount were yeah it's that's that's a different day well I don't think it is a different day I think it's today but let's get through the numbers and then we'll worry about The Source yeah is that fair yeah but if the motion says to raise you're putting that in the minutes to raise they say did we say to budget say to budget $50,000 for the utilize yeah I said utilize utilize that's good I you changed it to raise I think you I said ra sorry s 9,000 I'm on board with that I'm on board with that utilize gives us the wiggle one so what have I said for every other I said recommendation the select board recommendation said no I said recomend the select board recommendation so that

we can figure out the semantics of the wording is that fine are people comfortable with that okay so i' like to move we utilize $50,000 to add to the capital uh Eureka Reserve account I have a second second other seconds any fur discussion all in favor that's unanimous $50,000 for the Eureka Reserve which matches the budget committee members yeah can I ask a quick question just a point of order really quickly yeah so Jerry are we are we going to do that tonight are we going to draft articles tonight going to do that and give you a draft hopefully you'll have them next meeting to RW what I was going to say about that was that I don't know how this is going to I know in the past we've said said raise and appropriate or whatever the the thing that is confusing me a little bit is that since I mean we are increasing spending by but then we're offsetting Mo all of that from the uh all of our budget

budgeted expenses from the the fund balance so technically we're not raising anything this year we're is purely transferring from the fund it would say for inappropriate well no you no you're you're raising well we're we're raising the expense number but then it's all being paid for out of the fund balance hence the M the mill rate St we only have correct me if I'm wrong like 600 can I see last year's meeting but please the town war was it uh we're transferring 6 your town report from last year we're going to be transferring 6 33,45 I'm going to tell you7 we did it last year right to pay for the remain being raised oh sorry yeah and that's that's what I was so and then we're raising 8 million and so like the question is are we going to word this so all of

these items that we just voted on are coming directly out of just the fund balance and everything else is considered raised or are we saying more or less we're just eating away at the the 8.5 million that we need with 500 with 600,000 there'll be an article that okay so the way so I'm just going to read two examples so that we're all clear about the way that it is so I'm going to to see what some the town will vote to raise an appropriate for the fire and rescue Department budget it's going to go through that way for all of the articles that go that way right then to see what some the town will vote to transfer from undesignated but we're not going to call it that the general fund balance to be used towards the 2023 budget appropriation thereby decreasing the amount to be raised from property all our questions will say ra is and appropriate but then at the end we'll say to see how much the town wants to

transfer and we're saying to see if the town wants to transfer 66 33,45 that's why I was getting at earlier like sometimes it's easier to do even the discussion that we're having when the articles are all written so you can see because the the budget committee and what's it called that way you can see who's raising who's allocating from the general fund Etc and what you want to do what I think is an important thing for us to talk about when we get there though is that that number 633 th000 we came up with it

because that is capturing all of these Capital Improvement um funds that we're coming up with so like while that doesn't cover everything and it it's equally spread amongst all the expenses we can say that our desire was for that to be representative of these changes that we made because it's like you were saying like if we didn't have this fund balance we might not be making those sorts of Investments or those sorts of expenditures we might not be saying let's put 50,000 away for Eureka I think I think the intent is to purchase Cal

products and so forth using 600 and something thousand by doing that we are try or transfering but really the objective here correct me if I'm wrong is we're going to maintain basically as far as the municipal or excuse me as far as the town budget basically a stagnant budget even though we're buying a lot of capital projects and so forth because we're just going to use the money at of hand but we're still going to raise basically the same amount of taxes that we raised last year we're just not going to raise more in this other expenses that we're adding are getting offset by our Capital yeah and that's what I'm getting is I think that we deserve in Jerry here especially a little bit of a pat on the back because once you look at what we're coming up with a budget here like you said taking out the capital and Investments the saving for the future it's pretty dang close to same Services as last year for about the same price

now the the the tax might change the school budget might change but it did a pretty good job of keeping things pretty you're getting the same services but you're not paying the same price you're offsetting the price with funds that we have already collected right but the budget itself is actually a higher budget but what I'm getting at is the budget is higher because we're investing you know no it's not all because of capital it's we have higher expenses due to like more Municipal staff Etc and things of that it's not all because of capital but if we're transferring 633 th000 and then our Capital expenses are

616,000 that's investment in the future that that's not even an expense that's just a transfer that means we're only spending only only $30,000 of that transfer is going towards an increase in expenses so it's a pretty I don't have a problem with that I just wouldn't word it that the budget committee tried to word it that way I would not well the budget committee was saying we increase spending 10% which is which is yeah I wouldn't I'd be I just when you're up there just try to be careful of exactly what the words you use because people will use it against you no no I understand that that's why I'm saying let let's because they'll come back and like hey this this particular line item is up let's say public works so the fire department is up substantially they're going to say hey how are you saying that this is the same this year this year's confusing anyways because of the new system and how we're weiz we're trying to mitigate

a tax raise by using Capital that we already have we're Inc our budget is increasing but it's not being pushed forward in the form of a raise of taxes because we are offsetting it with capital that we've already had yeah if that sense I I I that makes sense say that right Jerry yeah that makes sense and I don't want to sound like I'm trying to argue here that's not what I'm getting what I'm saying is if we're transferring 6 3 3,475 out of cap out of the fund balance

and then we look and we have Capital uh we're transferring $616,000 for Capital um Improvement down in the future again please where pretty much almost all that fund balance is is all that all of the capital expenses are being covered by that fund balance so I think what it's just showing is that we kept other things give or take pretty level and I think that just goes to show that it's just it's good it's good budgeting that's what I'm what I'm getting at here I think he did great I think the budgeting is great yeah you just want to I mean I'll show you after I understand what you're saying we're going to so this goes to I'm just looking at I was just adjusting the numbers unless you've got the numbers adjusted over there there for us to vote on for each of the items for us to move forward I thought we already voted on yeah I thought are you going to we need to go do we need to go back through and

vote again on the budget items that change we we went through the individual items you need us to vote on the total number at the bottom of each section we did we did that by by article right I think so yeah we did but we didn't okay we didn't totalize it though but okay okay so I thought we it all works I thought we already voted on that

and Jerry's going to do Arles oh you're saying that warrant language not Mount or I just want to make sure that we're in agreement with the way we talked about how it it gets broken down right so that if people want to have a conversation about going up or down on a specific thing so so the article is not going to have just one number where it says raise and appropriate for community services and donations the 161 those things would be itemized like this in their home tabula format right so so you still be asking for the 161 to have a list it's broken down Beed yeah I think that that's and what we were doing yeah and then the general assistance is its own to see what some of the town will vote to raise and appropriate for general assistance and that's the 16 okay which brings us in the book to the 167 which is the 600 plus the 16 so you said you said 16 it's 600 the General assistan 600 yeah so 161

for community services and donations is one warrant but it has each one of these lines listed correct and the general assistance is separate for 600 everybody good yeah need to vote from us on that are we good okay um and we voted on arel lot we already did that so we're good with that and you're going to break out ARA the same way that you're going to do the okay those are separ Arles we're all good all good I'm good I think we're done with this part yeah y okay and again when you get them all you know just for clarification when Jerry produces all these and the numbers you still have the right to change it there you just have to change it before it goes to PR you can't change it after but next week you you get on cck this if you want

to seven days correct with an insert I forgot yeah that's right thank you thank you Jess the point I was trying to make is you get another crck sometimes it gets confusing in this other things new information comes in we wouldn't want to be we just going to stop answering phones and emails so voting on 2024 budget articles on the agenda what you needed from us were're done with that line voting on budet yes I have everything I need to get the warrant going for you yeah great all right

um drafting the Union Church articles we talked about that already basically so I think we just got to go I got to see the lawyer see the law and let us know we I'll have something for you the next meeting that's perfect four articles all right that's good um all right new business discussion on reevaluation bid results and we sort of already talked about that talked about that so one was 220 one was 90 Don is evaluating it we'll plan on inviting the companies to come in to to discuss their process the expectations of that and um hopefully hopefully sooner than later so we can get them on the hook I know where we got it it's got a pass town meeting but y in the meantime we have the budget set aside for whichever way we go for we're good y was the bid sent out yes not not sent to the board I I didn't see I didn't check rep Donna is checking Don's going to read them over yeah she has she has all five copies you will all

get a copy um no no that's fine no what you mentioned maybe them coming here but probably be more advantageous for you and Donna to meet with them via Zoom some of these people from like Massachusetts and stuff yeah KRT is from Mass the other one is here in Maine and maybe make a presentation to the board right the board has some specific questions right yeah so the idea would get the get their proposals out to us to review before they come in so in case we have question Joe had a question in regards to something he could forward it on to him and Donna question AB I don't think we're going to get him to come to us oh I think they will they will this is a big deal if they want the if they want to do the job they'll come yeah want to come to our meeting they going to have to come to town at some point U my question was does there uh I know Donna is looking at the bids but has she mentioned anything about like their

price is only good for 30 days or something like that or they understand I'm sure they understand the process so yeah okay okay all right all right next item on the agenda presentation a draft select board policies and procedures I emailed that out late breaking so that's not out in the public ether yet um so I I I did I did finish

the draft of that everybody has a red line of that um I guess the real question is is when do we we talked about having a um a uh Workshop meeting to discuss the contents of it because I think it's going to take us a while to go through that I mean I think we should take it paragraph by paragraph I don't think we need to be in I'll say this setting to do that it's probably best to just do it I don't know what everybody's schedule I know Josh isn't here but do do we have any any ideas on what what folks would like to do when um you know how long you might need to review what I put out um can you tell us what is coming up for the 27th do we have like stuff scheduled for that meeting well the warrant go over the warrant that's going to take probably a little bit of time I would say that's an important document and we're getting to the end of February Jess when we go on to print well March 1 so feary that's coming up quick it is so

we got to make sure so I mean that takes precedence so I just just that's that's why I say is it well my three cents I think you should I think you should probably look it over and you know we can have a discussion on it but you should probably make a decision and deliberate on it after the new board takes in April that that's kind of where I was at too is is is look at it and then deliberate later when we

so is the real Focus shoot just be on Tom meeting for the next month right worried that yeah we might have to meet again 27th is our regular scheduled meeting we need to do the warrant because the warrant needs to be done by the 1 yeah which is like needs to be done on the 27th then and then our and

then the 12th and the 26th are our next scheduled yeah um I I I'm going to put out a compromise about this because I'm going to be completely honest when I say that I'm super frustrated about the fact that I brought this up in July and it's now February and now we're going to kick the can down the road again and so the compromise that I'm willing to make and not put up a big stink about it is that we move our March meetings to the 5th and the 19th so that Joe can attend them and if we can do that I'm willing to Kick the Can until after to meeting fun thing about moving meetings is it it's fine for the four of us but it also we don't take into account like staff these meetings are planned ahead of time very rarely any organization moves meetings because of one individual and it's not a Hab that you guys should probably get into but you can do whatever you want but the meetings are set forth like years in advance

essentially so if that's the way that everybody feels I want to schedule an extra meeting and I would make a motion to do that to deal with this ahead of time that's fine what that's why I'm trying to I was that's why I asked for a day I mean what do we think about doing uh extra meeting on the 5th just for the we could do a workshop on the 5th it was fine yeah I I I mean I'm available I mean so I mean I don't I don't mind scheduling it for that and if you know I don't know everybody's we don't have Josh here but I think it's prudent to do this the original schedule was for us to do this in January in January yeah and so we knew we knew budget was going to come along too and that's why we had said we were going to do we actually talked about it in November doing it in November and and then it didn't happen and then it got moved to January and now we're trying to move it again so then the process was submitting comments by

December 26 and then meeting in January which didn't happen so I I'm advocating for add if if we need to add a meeting just for this that we could and advocate for that okay yeah fifth whatever I mean fifth is fine two I I'm free on two I would do it as a workshop I wouldn't do it as an official meeting yeah yeah I mean so I move that we have a March 5th Workshop to address Budget proed uh select board meeting bylaw procedures okay at 6:30 at the fire station second okay what day is that Tuesday the Tuesday the 5th yeah just regular 6:30 meeting select board do workshops need to be publicly recorded or not recorded but um just posted and um Jerry was nodding yes well you can record him you they said when we they people people can attend it's it's an open meeting whether you want to record it or not that's up to you folks I mean when Christina and Tony

were here and that Workshop we tried to record right and then it ended up just being the audio from it and it and we did that because they recommended that our workshops are also three or more of you in a room is an open meeting right yeah okay yeah I'm good with

vote uh we can if you want what's a motion yeah we have go ahead to have a meeting to add I don't think you need a motion to have a meeting I can yeah we just yeah if we have a motion we have to vote is we the motion was to add a meeting on the 5th at 6:30 or at a workshop on the F for this yeah that's fine we can we can vote on it if you want all right all in favor okay meeting on the fifth thank you I don't believe you need to do that it's just I think just as long as you have three of the five members who actually want to do that you can just call a meeting you don't need to really that's fine vot but whatever where I was reading somewhere or the chair can just call a meeting on the fifth and everybody has to show up that's the other thing you can do amazing what you find out reading the rules uh okay where are

anything first even I I don't have a LW but I I did send that you all an email today a memo from from the attorney regard the union church I don't know if you put an eyeball on that yet or not did not did you read it I did okay yeah I'm already working on it okay so um I just want you to be aware of that it just basically they tried to do a deed search and there's no record of the property ever being transferred over to the town so you can still do the quick claim deed it's it's all of that but I just want you to be aware of that so if it comes up in discussion so that's that's really the only I doubt they're going to buy title insurance I don't think anybody's going to challenge it no everything can still go I just wanted you who would have been

transferred from who it was a church originally or the record show the record shows that it was transferred on August 22nd of 1922 and it was a Baptist Church originally and there were four n it was abandoned before the town was there is record of it being transferred in like the newspaper but the deed I don't no de no I get no interesting okay good I learn something new every day great right what's time it's a defined property as far as boundaries and so forth yes interesting it's just that because ta churches aren't taxed and then the town acquired the property and the town obviously doesn't pay tax right there's a blurry there's no recording no reason to have a piece of paper right um the Methodist Church was a little funky too my memory was it yeah I mean they they are because it is a church and it's going to the town etc etc there's always I don't nothing jackp can't handle yeah okay it say yeah it says here quick

claim deed would transfer any ownership right um whether you know exactly where that came from or not but I mean I don't think there's anyone who going to there's also a process like I was there in 22 and this is not right is there is

a process that you can do where you make public notice that gives anybody that that believes they might have any kind of right that they have a certain amount of time to step forward on public notice that this is going to take place and if nobody steps forward in that amount of time then they're basically relinquishing any claim to a right that they would have and then it can be transferred forly clear that process does exist okay so someone could step forward and say I have the deed my grandfather gave it to me all say yes Jerry let's keep going the only other thing I have is so Public Works was going to post the roads on the 20th okay but AUB and called in a few other towns called the months that they're posting now so you you're posting early posting it early so just so folks sign down there I think there's one on Ceda Pond isn't there I went bu it today so me shot it up yet so roads are roads are posted until

probably further notice I don't know how long I can't imagine there's much Frost in the under the RO prob anyway so so there's that that's nothing else really has gone on we've had people out sick so we've been we've been hustling right along with and it's and it's a pretty good sickness people getting pretty sick I don't know I will say that I know that the roads aren't bad cuz my Jeep is fine driving around usually I'm bouncing off the the ceiling of that thing these this time of year um other than that not much from since last week so we'll just keep plugging along Jess do you have anything thank you John thanks she's shaking her head now no okay um actually can I just add so coming up for the primary yeah Republican ballot there's a Democrat ballot you're a republican you get the Republican you're a Democrat you get Democrat undesignated or I mean sorry

unenrolled can choose which ballot they want and they don't have to register with that party this is new the it's called a semiopen primary libertarian No Labels green party cannot vote so if you're registered as that you don't what when do you have to come into unth officially but we're closed so February 15th is Thursday you'd have to un to change your status so there's no more same day enrolling that's register sorry registering to vote if you're not register to vote yeah yeah but you can't change your

heart CH does the Independence fall into that same category independent yeah or just yeah that's a card straight up independent not the same if you're not registered I think you're just def facto I didn't know that I didn't know if you had to register as an independent I just want to I think you're automatically by Thursday if you're want to be unenrolled to be able to choose independentes for the primary um don't you need to get

down the town hall to unenroll be in in person bring your one of the little Graphics that they do to put that on the Facebook page or yeah something all right thank you all right I should be moving over to the the what was the select board room within two weeks I think okay are you still trying to get like uh Surplus dividers or something like that I may still or not do anything we'll see you mean like these those tall yeah cubic dividers yeah I went to I went to Surplus they said they get them now and then but there's a company important called INR and they that's like what they do right yeah we we'll see Bill and I rent in for Andros they have tenants move out they leave millions of them behind and they're all up the stores they probably just give I can ask H all right you just grab them anyway else they lock them they lock them but they they do have a lot of okay all right next item unless you have

anything else I don't I don't have anything else to report now board member reports anything to report oh I have a question I think is this inappropriate is this would this be a time to ask it um yeah go ahead yeah so I when we make a change I'm just trying to make sure that I'm following the rules right and I know we're not supposed to direct Town staff and so when that email came out with our documents and I there was a change that needed to be made to the minutes and I sent that email and addressed Kimberly because I knew she was the one who was going to make the change but that was me telling a town employee well asking a town employee to do something and I I I think that that's

I think that's fine I just don't know if that's okay because that's I didn't ask Jerry to do it if you find if you find a mistake I mean yeah the owners of that is a question like please review these and you're saying oh I noticed this and then cuz they're your minutes right okay you're just saying hey I don't agree with these minutes that's all you said really in my opinion it's not like you're saying like hey go no but I think it's important to ask to this here okay I you're fine you you asked her to reformat it because you didn't like the format of something and wanted to change it around that would be different right and you're comfortable with that that exchange and not saying to saying to you can you please tell Kimberly to XYZ right no cuz these are like it is the board minutes so you know if there's something that's incorrect that's fine just send it a quick email okay thank you and I'll

report out next time on our meeting I just didn't didn't write anything up ahead of time for Jerry and I attended a meeting with um various um uh members of the select boards and committees in in the surrounding area we we attended last week but with everything going on that didn't get written up um okay consent agenda um a motion to accept the consent agenda so move second okay move second

all in favor okay I've got I believe somebody gave me a folder here St we can sign um upcoming meetings um Coming meetings we got select board meeting on 227 and 312 here at the fire station planning board on 21524 here at the fire station uh any reason for an executive session this evening we've also got the 35 Workshop that we've also got the 355 Workshop I'm sorry yeah um okay motion to adjourn second all right all favor all

right motion carries thank you everybody wonderful evening and we got something a sign yeah that was a lot to get through good