TranscriptCapital Improvement Committee Meeting ~ November 2, 2023

to the second meeting of the budget 2024 CIP that's capital Improvement program uh process meeting and uh we're here this evening and I'm joined by our committee members and maybe we'll just take a quick round robin so the committee members can introduce themselves let's start with you Joe all right uh Joe Tom love AA Drive P jaau Moss fieldway Michelle R David Le Drive Paul first Chesley Hill Road Jill Gaston gay stack Road and we're also joined by

uh our town manager manager y Jerry Douglas Jerry Douglas yeah and chief Rob trip Chief Rob trip yeah commissioner Calvin Calvin bourier and also our our finance person and um Mark do you have does Mark have a title business manager is what I usually go by okay business manager and Mark could you just introduce yourself y I'm Mark Roy and I'm partner with Royer Ro

advisers of the C wonderful well we're so pleased to have you here this evening so um at our last meeting we received the 2024 application requests along with the equipment schedules from the uh department heads and uh we came up with

our questions for the department heads which has have been forwarded to them so a little later this evening we're going to hear from the Department heads and they're going to uh hopefully try to address some of our questions and I think we're going to have a discussion but prior to that we're going to hear from Mark and uh he has very kindly agreed to come this evening to talk a little bit about how we might wrap this uh next 10 years worth of

requests into a more definitive plan and what might be required of the town uh with regard to to you know what would be required in terms of contributions to reserves in order to uh to to meet the goals of that plan the the uh equipment purchase goals of that plan so with that um I will I think turn it over to Jerry so I I don't have anything further

Jerry do you have anything uh that you would like to you would like to mention before and and I will leave leave it up to you to turn it over Mark right no I don't really have any uh much to add other than I thank Mark for showing up and working through this and the work that he's done to help us get our hands around a actual CIP plan um he'll go

through it he's also GNA you know stick around when we go through the questions as well just as a finance director would in a situation like this in a in a town that hires would wonderful wonderful but my general thought was uh you know I know uh Calvin has a uh significantly more requests this year than uh Chief trip Y and so my thought was that after we uh have the presentation and discussion with Mark that we would maybe move on to Chief trip let him go home and then then take Calvin if that works for you he Chief trip needs to leave at seven at seven but he he's willing to come back he's just got to run over to the fire department and take care of a couple things and but he's willing to come backun out y okay very good all

right so Mark explain what we gave you and the process we we've gone over a couple times and uh right so U my understanding is from how the town does it is it's basically on a year-by-year basis meaning every budget year the department heads come to the to the select the CIP committee and say okay well here's our request for the coming budget year that I need in taxes uh then the excuse me then the

um this committee then ranks it provides that to the select board and then as part of the select board's process um they will you know if everything can be funded they leave everything in there but if not then they start removing from the low lowest priority up is that basically how it is that's pretty close okay um that's a perfect perfectly fine

uh way of doing it uh with the other clients that we advise uh a different way that you might want to consider is a much longer term uh Outlook and I'm talking 20 30 years 40 years out right uh the reason why is because when you're doing it on a year-to-year basis in any particular year the amounts being raised can vary significantly so for one in one year um you know public could raise say that it needs uh you know $300,000 and then the next year only needs 50,000 and the next year you know it needs another 600,000 whatever right so you have basically these you know Peaks and trops within what you're raising in taxes and from a taxpayer standpoint usually that's unfavorable right they would rather much have something that uh is at least um as level as possible or is at least predictable possible so in order to arrive at that what you need to do is you need to really plan and get onto your CIP um list as far out as possible

or as soon as possible right so if something's going to come up 20 years from now it's much better uh to put it on the list now so that it can be raised and save for over over time if that is how the town refers to finance the

project it might be helpful for you at some point to go back and just look briefly over the policy yeah uh because the policy basically lays out how we've approached it and um we've tried to do that what you're saying yeah but we've encountered some very specific challenges okay um so we have used

because um we have a pretty high annual Bond payment where in this catch22 situation where we have been about saving uh versus making vers versus paying for equipment items that we've purchased in the past where the bonds have to be serviced right so we've been in that catch 22 that we can't really quite afford to do both we're starting to come out of that cycle which is really helpful um and so

uh we've kind of tried to strike a little bit of a middle ground um and we have you know we have been advocating for Reserve accounts we haven't had those Reserve accounts really adequately set up until now uh I think with you coming on board thank you for getting those accounts set up so um you know we're hopeful that with uh the manager

having brought you on board that we're now in a position to be able to do those things okay Y and that's and that's not unreasonable right there always going to be a balance of what do we need and what can we yes and so what we've been doing as a proxy for the plan because it's so difficult for us to plan with these large Bond payments that we've had over the last few years is we have um we've just used

the equipment schedules as a proxy yep you know as a proxy for how much we need to put into Reserve right yeah one thing I do see that is missing is is you know planning for building I really don't see that as part of the longterm request which really you should be planning for because those are going to be also significant you know expenditures that if that's how you can Finance it which is how I suggest right especially in in in periods where interest rates are high I certainly don't suggest taken out of B you can avoid it um and with proper planning you can avoid it um but you you

really do need to get kind of everything all of your Capital needs kind of on the table and at least starting um so the way that we do it is we simply put it into a list and it's it's really just saying okay well here's all the amounts that we need um over in which years that we expect to purchase those those um items or or basically cash flows out uh what is our beginning balance at the be of each year and what is our ending balance of each year and at what rate do we need to save or set aside raise money every single year to ensure that the ending balance after a cash flows go out at the end of the year that Reserve never goes below zero uh and that's fairly simple to do once you once you put it in once you have all of the items in your list um so one thing that you can do right so

I I appreciate you know okay well we have these large Bond payments that we also have to pay uh as well as these as well as what we need one thing that you can do is is really incorporate your debt service payments into your um into your whole plan so that your Capital Improvement plan is really both a combination of a debt service plan as well as a a raising for your your Capital needs uh so that long term eventually when your bond your debt service goes away then it it's really adjusting Capital Reserve System one of the challenging things about that would be that and U maybe it's not that big of a challenge I don't know but it would require us to incorporate roads yes into that plan because you know roads are the big right uh the big piece of that correct yeah and it depends you know

obviously if you're going to have a hug project it's going to be you know $10 million it's unlikely that you're going to start saving for it and have sufficient funds whenever you need to to do that so most likely large road projects are going to have to go out and get Debt Service or debt financing um but you can incorporate those estimated costs into your plan so that in that sort of combined Debt Service fund capital capital projects fund you're raising essentially for both at the same time you're raising even so let's say for example um you expect to have uh you know to repair 10 miles a road it's going to cost you 10 million um but you don't really need to do it for another 10 years well you could raise a million dollars every year right and save for it uh or you can say well we will finance it and how much do we need to actually start raising now so that when we act when we get into The Debt Service

amounts we've already Incorporated those de those you know principal and interest payments every year into our cash outflows every year so that the amounts that we're raising today will still just be this level payment going forward yeah um and that's I've done that with other towns it's it's fairly simple again it's fairly simple to do it's just you need to you know the the struggle with with my other clients is saying to the department heads of town managers hey get me a whole list of of really what you want because they're busy doing whatever isn't working right so trying to think about these long-term things is is sometimes a struggle where you're like okay just give me a a full list uh another part is uh you know sometimes the department heads and time managers are like well I don't I don't know how much how much it's going to cost right I don't know how much it's going to cost 30 years down the road to buy a

pumper well it's not going to be zero right and it's not going to be $10 million I mean we can start narrowing it down from there we don't need an exact figure today for something 30 years down the road but we do need something that you know gives us a range that gives us a number that we can start raising towards and then as we get closer and closer uh to the to the date as more and more information becomes known well then that that number and that that variation from what it will actually be from what we're planning you know Narrows down until we're like you know four or five years out and we're pretty sure we're going to be able to get it for this price uh and we've raised sufficient capital or sufficient CS to to purchase that

one way to maybe do a guesstimate is say Okay a pumper today would be $20 yeah um and inflation is 1% and we need it in 20 years so they'll leave 20% I mean right I mean that's what how most people do it right they go okay well you know let's just factor in about three to 5% inflation every year or 2% inflation every year um which obviously you know in short spans that may not be accurate right for the last couple years 8% would have been a better thing but over the long term an average percentage interest rate will get you where you want to go so yeah so it's not very difficult to arrive at some number but it's better than nothing right because if you don't put anything in and you start raising funds so I had this with one one of my towns um they you know they've been using this process and it's been working well and so they only had to raise 300,000 or 400,000 every single year for they do it as one big Reserve so all of

their Department's capital projects are in one big uh Capital project capital reserve uh so everything Fire Department Public Works municipal buildings all of that is in one big thing and they're planning for it and so they were raising a flat amount well now they're like well we need to we need to uh demolish the public safety building and buil buy a new one and build a new one which will incl you know Debt Service and all that okay that's fine how long how how far out do you want to do that oh two years from now okay well you know two years is a bit is a bit short you know ramp to uh to arrive at that so you know they had this they had been you know three 400,000 I can't remember uh every year and then all of a sudden they have to raise 800,000 which is a huge jump and so they had to try to figure that out on the operating budget side okay where do we where do we skimp in order to still uh you know be able to raise the

amounts that we're really going to need to raise regardless of whether people want it or not I public safety building is going to fall down so we need to repace it um so it's those types of things where like I said the most glaring was I don't see anything related to buildings where you really do want to start thinking about that so that you can you raise for it because otherwise if you don't raise for it you're going to have to borrow for it and because it's got you know roofs Roes cave in right you know boilers blow so if you don't plan for it all it means is that you're going to end up borrowing for it whenever it happens and you're going to have this huge spike in taxes that you're going to either have to account for by cutting some other part of your budget or just you know withering complaints from from taxpayers saying why are the taxes going up you know 10% from last year well it's because we

didn't plan for it appropriately right um well whose fault is that that person is from 10 years ago that's their fault really so really that's that's what you want to look for in the long so implementing this planned by the way the way that we way compared the way you're doing it now to this is likely just so you know just so you're prepared is likely to result in a a different a much larger figure than what you're used to and so as as as you were alluding to

we're trying to balance what we can afford and what taxpayers can afford that type of thing so you might put a whole bunch on the on the plan and then go well we want to you know the way we're figuring it we we should raise x amount of dollars and then kind of scale that back just a little bit it means that the amount that you're racing isn't level or you know on a rising a flat Rising scale or a nice slope it means that you will have jumps for the first couple years but then after a few years once youve kind of acclimated people to okay well this is how much we raise every year then you could have a nice level of kind of tax raising because the am really I mean ultimately what happens when you don't plan is people don't really think about well what is the true cost of the capital that needs to to that is needed in order to provide the goods and services of the town and the taxpayers expect but it is possible those we

Implement a staggering increase that is offset debt we plan for what do you mean by well if you look at our Deb p it's yeah okay yeah I get that yes that's correct you know and like you said if we're designing this so that it's also covering debt payments right exactly then it it may not

[Music] as um I'm not sure what the other committee members thoughts are on this in particular but my own personal thought I see that you know at town meeting um we're still sometimes grappling with you know what is the capital Improvement program and um you know why are we putting this money in reserve and how much do we need to be putting in reserve and I think that the plan that you know you drafted and we haven't had a chance to review it yet but potentially has the ability to really put some of that to rest which is a really great thing um at the same time I do have some concern while you know thinking longer term adding roads and taking a comprehensive approach might make a lot of probably would make a lot of sense that there is some logic of doing this kind of in a stepwise fashion and uh rather than a trying to lump everything together right now um personally I I kind of like the idea for

the time being of sticking with the vehicles and um you know these other these other Capital aspects we have and leaving roads aside uh given what we have on our plate um until a later date you know I don't know what others you know and maybe I'm jumping the gun on this discussion a little bit but I don't know what your thought is on that Jerry whether you're going to try to you know bring roads into the fold on this or whether you'd like to you know wait a year or two at least until we've got of got this s running if your yearly Paving that Calvin does I would leave in the operating budget yeah yeah yeah and when he has cver projects or Bridge projects or a major constru that would bequest for a capital project at okay a strong reconstruction right that would be a request for capit but I would strongly encourage to leave his Paving program in his operating budget yeah yeah absolutely than yeah that that makes

sense to me too and maybe that will you know change over time but and certainly the bridges I think right point and you know sometimes those road projects are so big like Road reconstruction they can kind of D everything else right and with the rains that we have sometimes if we have a big road was show it it sometime is to have some money set aside in case because I me you have to fix that like immediately you know especially because people need to get get to their homes or business or work or whatever that's a topic yeah just trying to kind of narrow this down a little bit with regard to our Target this year absolutely try to Target this year right yeah and and Mark and I have talked and that's why I've kind of expressed to him that we're just going to do with equipment later and this is kind of a starting point for us exactly and so can we can expand on this in in later years especially as people get accustomed to

it and used to it and understand it exactly and as some of the uh the bond payments start you know reducing falling off right as as Joe mentioned I think if you look at the bond payment I I believe from 23 to 24 is like 177 something like that coming off a thousand right so you know that can help

with other capital reserve accounts that's that's where the town chooses to direction to go the the both the capital and the fire what what Mark has kind of put together and kind of show you what absolutely kind of explain it a little bit pick whatever let's um let's do the fire department so I apologize for the small print obviously this is a comes from a large spreadsheet so it's hard to get everything all in one um but really what I what I'd like you to do is look at the the second page because this kind of allows you to visualize what's going on perfect time it's

days uh so what this what this graph shows you at the top is the the orange line is your beginning balance of your reserve every year and the black line is the amounts being raised every year and the goal is really just to have that black line as flat as possible or if it is going to increase it's going to be a steady increase like 2% 3% every second year right um the Orange Line the goal was there is to so that it never D you set that rate that amounts to be raised rate you can see the amounts belue that um to a to a flat level such that at when you do the calculations it never drops below zero and so you can see it you know the amount in the reserve rise and rise and rise and Rise uh you know for six years up until it gets to 800 900 almost a million dollars uh and then it plummets because you're going to have this large $1.1 million outflow in uh

2020 2034 in which case it goes all the way down almost to zero and then it rises and Rises until and then this wasn't I didn't finish this up because there's some new data in here but that oh actually no you can see right given all the data in here right all the data from the what's in the list you can

see the the years uh purchases or the year's Cash Out Clow you can see that you're raising $180,000 through 2040 every single year and yet you have a million dollars that is going out the door uh you know in4 3 and 2045 combined right so this the

idea behind this tool is that you're not in 2040 is going to stop raising money because you're going to have that in future Capital needs but the idea is to get as much information in here as possible so that you're reasonably certain that the amount that you're raising every single year is never going to spike or or drop right it's always

going to be kind of the same and that's kind of that's what that's what this shows uh so what I had done um I'd taken what was in Jerry and Jerry's uh um spreadsheet that he had had or the workbooks that he had had is pretty much the same concept it's just formatted a little bit differently I just put this um in a uh format so

that you could see okay well in what years are we expecting to make these purchases and at what at what amounts uh and then this tool that I developed you can see these are all out um but the tool that I that I developed also allows you to if you want to be borrowing for stuff it allows you for borrowings as well so that you can incorporate both um you know debt financing as well as just saving for financing so in the case of let's say roads you go well it's going to be $10 million we're certainly not going to you know save for that so or for all of that so instead we're going to save for uh you know The Debt Service payments that are going to be coming out of that and how much do we need to save every year so that even when that debt service starts to come through we're still only raising the same amount every single year now I noticed that for fire department we're going 20 years out but

for Public Works we're only going eight years out right and um just trying to figure out really where we should be um and on one hand I have to say I like and you know Jerry and I have met a couple times and talked about this this idea of kind of uh pairing it back a little bit and not going so far out to try to make it more real more understandable for the

public and also because you know we it's also when you look at a 10year schedule it's really there's a little more immedi immediacy there uh with regard to yeah you know we need to be putting this money in reserve then if you look at a 30 or 30 years schedule and you're thinking wow you know am I saving for things at this point you know 30 years from now um and then the other piece of it is just uh uh for the department heads with regard to maintenance and and trying to keep it simple for everybody here so we try to get this on on a stronger Foundation right I I think if the if the town committed to a plan where it was level y to to replace the equipment and whatnot that would we know we're going to have then perhaps the project requests that we submit because we already have it on the schedule so in in in other words we have a replacement schedule so naturally the department heads are going

to request that piece of equipment on that year otherwise I think they would get asked a question well it's on the schedule why didn't you request it right so you see not to say that they would purchase it that year okay but still

fund it so if you do delay it you you you set it aside so they could purchase it at that later time I think that's a really good point with regard to the delay right that we still need to raise the money even if we delay the purchase right because it might be advantageous to delay the purchase because we see we can get more bank for our bu by you know running this vehicle for another two three years right um but then by still

you know saving those funds it puts us in a a pretty good position a better position for down exactly uh my comment on keeping it shorter Horizon is caution against that okay and I'm not saying that you should do absolutely necessary that you do 40 years or 30 years U but once you start getting closer and clo or shorter and shorter Horizon uh what your I just there's always this worry that I have that you're not really planning for what you really are going to need yes so we were at 30 and we pulled it back this year we pulled it back to 10 or at least Jerry and I have discussed pulling it back I don't know if that's for the most part we have like 10 and 12 year replacement schedules right so we we could do that two and three times to get out there 24 and 36 years probably the fire apparatus is going to be the exception right I bet right because Public Works I mean may beat up their equipment so much more than the

fire department does every year plowing and salt and they just they're just heavier equipment so maybe that's really the answer to the earlier question which is why we're out to 44 years years on part to the 2044 on the fire but only you know 10 years are still on the public works right and it's G to be different and I mean there can be a discussion on is 10 years too little or too much should we be looking at 12 but it just really depends each year is so different with with equipment and how long it lasts and what what how it gets treated I mean there's just a lot of variables with I mean because really in public works trucks and this it's really a tool is really what it is does this um

does this uh correspond with the equipment schedules yes okay yes and that's all it is for for that one for that for that 10 or 12 years replacement schedules now we could put them in there again two or three times to get out there that 30 or 40 if we want um you know have to talk but any given Year we're like right now we're starting so we're we're we're do longterm plan we need to do it but we also need to keep in mind we got to fund 2024 too at the same time and in the replacement schedules you know we were and it's in the policy that we use an inflation Factor yeah are we still doing that I have I don't do it I over the last couple of years it's very difficult to what number do you choose I mean there's been 3% but interest rates are now 8% I think Mark's point there was very relevant one with regard to some years you're going to hit it other years you're not but you need to be we need to

be looking at the long term and just pick one absolutely and his program can do that for us pretty easily so this would um this would streamline CIP as well right um because you wouldn't be coming here and keep asking for the money year after year you'd end up just if you Lev once you level load and you say hey here's my plan my 10year plan I want this this this and this then you're already funding it if you're level loaded I'll call it level loaded for lack of a better word and then the only thing you change on your Capital plan is something new came up or something was going to change like you weren't going to buy the truck or you were going to have to buy the truck earlier because of some mishap but then you so you so you you actually streamline the process by putting a solid plan in place and agre does change over the years you know but but at least that long-term plan once you stop putting the money away

permanently here based on a plan that everybody agrees it actually gets a little easier to manage the Capital Improvements you know you're on you're on automatic at that point and and that and that kind of gets us away from something that we did last year in in Calvin's budget we took 50,000 out of his reserves and then we had an article that th000 back in so we should have just left as Reserve alone and raised the 50 because that's essentially what we did you can do that just based on how you write the warant article correct I mean you could you and I don't think it matters really to I know at least for me

from the Committee Member perspective I don't I I don't care which way you do it right I guess what I'm saying is if you have the money already in reserves yeah you're just pulling it out of the reserves exactly so yeah that's that would be in the admin uh admin I would

say basket of things that you guys do to decide absolutely when we write the warrants and exact yeah and we we're going to work on that too because yeah I mean the way that the way that we with this works is that every year you have two standard articles with respective of CIP you have the the raise article right sh the town raise and transfer to the C

amount of dollar that's a standard article and people will get used to seeing it and they'll generally get they'll get used to seeing pretty much the same amount every single year we raise this amount every single year right and we transfer it to the reserve then there's a second warant article that says shall the select be authorized to appropriate from the uh Reserve to

pay for Capital expenditures as they be necessary in accordance with the CF plan well that's really interesting because now I heard you mention that you work with one town where they just have one Reserve account yeah and so are they handling it with literally just two horn articles yeah rather than separate the truck separately right so they they had the ambulance for example the plow truck versus the ambulance that's correct because all of that all of what is in the CIP Reserve is handled by in their case they don't have a CIP committee it's just the the select board and the and so they develop a CIP plan because that's part of their you know authority to do that so they put whatever is in that CIP plan that they want to um and to arrive at that amount that they need to raise every single year but the authority to expend from the CIP reserve for Capital Improvements or for Capital expenditures as they deem necessary well

that allows for maximum flexibility so literally uh it was yesterday it's green the town manager called me up and he said hey uh we have a mold issue at the library that we need to remediate it's going to be about $30,000 um can we just take can we just expend that from the CIP reserve and the answer is yes because you already even though it wasn't in the CIP Reserve um list that that arrived at that amount that we that we raise every year because you're raising and saving for stuff that isn't happening for another 15 years right essentially you're you're building a war chest whenever something unexpected happens like this that needs to be attended to well you don't need to go to a special town meeting you you you've already got the authority to expend from uh the CIP reserve for just Capital Improvements which this is what it is and you just need the select board to approve it and so the select board says yep we'll spend

from it I add it then onto the list so that when we're doing the calculation for next year we have now Incorporated it and the result is that almost always it doesn't change what we need to raise from one year to the next because factored in so much so much stuff when those uh at town

meeting when the citizens raise their hand are they're raising their hand for uh one figure you know for one amount to be put into reserve and it's B Bas on I assume the plan and for example the mold is in that case the mold wouldn't have been on the plan correct but what they're raising what they're when they're uh approving to raise and appropriate they're raising and appropriating a particular amount to be set into the capital Improvement fund which is which is separate from the general which is separate from the general fund right and then they have an appropriation article that allows the select board to appropriate as they deem necessary from this fund I see so okay it's whatever they deem necessary so most times every single year they have a list of projects that they're going to go through right this is our 2024 lists we're going to go and do the Brick repointing we're going to go and do buy that truck and all that

and then if something uh if if something needs to be moved up a year Well we were going to do it La next year but the truck is breaking down so we really got to buy it this year they can go ahead and do that because it's really just the war article was really just saying to appropriate from the capital reserve fund as as deemed necessary for capital projects it's a very interesting idea but I think um probably not where we want to start especially given our current situation where we're in a community where um we haven't even been able to pass an unanticipated expense f

for operations I think that that might be I mean that you don't you don't think so IE okay because for one thing what I see happening to is pitting public works against the fire department oh I agree on that point absolutely we're putting into the reserve and by you know if I'm interpreting what Mark is saying correctly we're we're also budgeting for those building repairs so it's you know we're estimating again just a random number there's $10,000 a year that's needed for building repairs and so that's what we're putting into the reserve amount and so then when we do ask for the town to say okay this is what we plan on doing with this list kind of like the department heads come to us and say here's our operational budget you know like it got drilled in my head the past five years I've been on the board you can go line by line by line if you want to but at the end of the as long as they don't overspend that bottom line sure

they're okay so if they do run into an unexpected expense they can say okay the pickup truck can wait till next year because the ceiling just collapsed that's an now Hall and it gives them that ability to do that versus with everybody segregated then then the town hall is

wearing rain coats for year Well each Reserve account is acts the same that the the select board still has the authority to spend out of one big account or each individual reserve a account that doesn't yeah just you just need to warn right I think the narration at town meeting go better if it's yeah in the warrant article and the warrant article two is just a second backup because Reserve accounts the the select board is the trustees of those accounts so by law they can authorized the spending of those accounts yeah you so I I you know I think this is kind of an interesting juncture um I agree with Joe with regard to this kind of hitting of one Department against another you know that can be a very tough situation and it would be wonderful if uh we were able to get to a point where um you know it was just basically one appropriation okay just but um but you know I still um you know personally I still

like the idea of separate accounts Just one thought would do you think that is a better appetite for the residents to hear two articles of 180,000 or one for legitimate well because if you add these up they're going to be like say shall we Rao something called cultural change you know how much cultural change can you accept in a short period of time well you got you got to be able to essentially I'll say I'll use the word sell the

so once you get everybody over the hump that this is the plan and we're quote unquote gonna stick to it as best we possibly can and this is what the plan if you level load it looks like then yeah I agree it's a big number to you know but everybody I know goes through the sheet at town meeting and adds everything up on what we spent and what we're not so it does become a bottom line number at the end everybody needs to look at it that way we have town to run should be a you know it cost money to do that things are not so would you guys agree that on average we put away about $100,000

two departments we put away about100 in res it's hard to get an average you know it's don't know fairly highly variable so but it's not enough it hasn't been enough I know but yeah what I guess what I'm trying to say is I recall at least 50,000 going into each Department's reserves in the maybe sometimes you get more okay so we

debt calul triple check this but we're not adding that much more this coming year well let's wait till we get there we got there yet oh I'm getting there with Mike or Mark Mark and I already got there okay all right well Mark has the numbers you guys are you guys are Beyond me that so because uh last I saw I think we were

looking at roughly 200,000 for Public Works 205 205 okay and fire department 75 requested uh 180 180 okay so that's 380 that's 100 versus 380 that's a signicant difference I you know if you sorry um I think it would be wonderful to see this program grow each year step by step absolutely and um I would love to see us thinking about uh you know the plan this year is

really as Joe said what we ought to be trying to sell and um and on some of these peripheral things I think it would be if we come in there if we come to Tami um offering a wholesale different approach with regard to for example having just two worn articles and having everything work together then you know I don't know I I see that as potentially problematic and you know still what we want to do is sell the plan and and let people come to the plan and see the logic in it rather than us trying you know trying to ask for too much at one time and basically saying you know you know this is the plan and we want you guys to trust us you know with these two worn articles and lump everything together um I think it would make more sense for them to see the logic in the plan and then for us to build that trust and move in that direction you sorry with with what the is used to paying in their debt schedule and $100,000 going

into reserves a year this coming year because our debt schedule gets smaller we would be short 100,000 oh I see which I'm sure if Mark looks at the debt schedule that could be made up and so in the sense the town when they're looking at that bottom line it would be flat they're the debt schedule goes down that they see some Savings in their um taxes and I think

based on what how quickly our debt schedule is going down I think we'd be able to forecast that yeah my uh my feeling is because I'm elor I would never ever say to any taxpayer oh well we're going to have a savings at you know future year it's unrealistic it just is it's just unrealistic it's it's unrealistic to to think in any normal economy where you have Rising inflation or Rising rates that you can have you know a tax rate that goes down the amount that you're paying for governmental Services is somehow magically different than the amount that you're paying for bread or water it doesn't make any sense so I would never say to a taxpayer oh don't worry you know five years will be able to we'll be able to you know flat tax it or even get a tax discount no plan on 3 to 5% increase in your property taxes every single year because that's how the economy works three to 5% put I'm on a fixed income I know that's problematic

you should really try to get off the fixed income I recognize that's more difficult to do than than it is to say but it's not realistic what I tell my parents and they're in the same situation uh most people are where they're like well I'm struggling you're fine I know this is why it was bad planning on your part to have six [Laughter]

think right now you're in the situation you're on is here but in reality you know in reality I think it's unrealistic to everything or I think it's I I don't I don't think it's a good idea to ever promise you're going to cut tax there are some solid arguments to be made um with regard to the fact that we've been deferring Capital expenditures because we've been carrying uh such high debt servs and that now we need to you know get on these you know get on these things we got to make some M and the the other point I'll just mention briefly is um we don't want to be the other point to be made is that we don't want to be in a position of bonding uh right now because of the B rates right um so that

the town hasn't other than 23 the town hadn't raised the mill rate in three years during the most inflationary period in our life and I think that might haunt us a little bit probably haunt me as a new manager because they'll probably have to be raised and I'll get blamed but that's just the nature of of it but back to your point about the asking for large amounts of money do you think the residents would have a problem doing that if they saw that the tax impact wasn't really that bad because that's really what it comes down to I think it depends on how it's presented honestly and I think that if you're able to um present that upfront if you're

able to get to the bottom line and now you know there's also you know tax impact of course you know three qus of the tax impact is the school right okay that's always the tricky part and you know if you look over time I think you you might see that the school of the the districts often don't go up as much as the TOs at least that's what I've seen I at least you know if you look historically it depends it depends okay I mean I have I have so there there's a delution element there there's a delution element that can go either way depending on how you present the numbers um but you know I I do think it's important to present them from the municipal personally I feel it's important to present them from the municipal perspective because we don't have any control over the school tax rate right right so um but you know I

know people do present them different ways uh but I think if you're able to present it up front and let people know that then uh yeah then the details become less important right so just to let people know like what is it it's like 7 78 cents or something like 70 cents of every dollar that funnels through this town office goes to the school and almost s cents goes to the county and we're left to run the this to keep the doors open here and as maybe more pressure gets on the school and it goes up our goes down and we're still trying to cost is going to go up uh Calvin this year paid $82 a ton for a hot mix to pave next year got a quote for 110 yeah that's huge that that's a huge increase in cost and to Mark's point this it never goes down it always goes up yeah so I just say that just to kind of echo what he's it's just but I think a lot of the Town people will take

like we're on a constant roller coaster ride and you know was this am this year and next AB to roller coaster as as marck you explained earlier the level loading I think would be a lot easier to and and it just it makes a more pleasant place to work for me and the staff too level okay so level loading right how do you uh approach that with regard to process the budget

process and um you know I'm thinking for example of uh different steps in the process for example the budget committee how do you how do you approach the level loading uh does is it reviewed by the budget committee well I get confused with that to be honest and some new because we have this committee to do the capital stuff so I'm not sure where the budget committee comes into that or why because it's almost like the budget committee can almost step on the work that you're doing so I'm not really sure I'm still trying to figure out the process still this is only my that might be an area where the Selectmen might have some guidances yeah right because I mean the select board they they they're the ones I do the day-to-day operations in here the select man the board the select board they the Committees are under their dis discretion of course you know you could also have something in between

where for example the budget committee reviews the level voting and they either you know they look at it and either they uh they accept it or they don't but maybe they don't propose a separate you know amount yeah and that's a policy discussion I that we'll have to have at sometime exactly it's good point

would be how do we get to uh a final plan proposal and uh Mark are you looking for some input from us with regard to the plan I mean ultimately if these are the only two reserves that you want to work with as far as doing this I can I can do that I

already have exactly what what you've already me me personally I would like to see more be more comprehensive but doing that all at once is probably problematic but yeah I just need some sort of guidance on what do you guys want to see do you want to continue with what you've already started with the first meeting which is hey give us your 2024 requests and we'll we'll vote on those decide on whether or not to you know do those and then rank them pass them off to the budget to do or do you want to actually have a completely different end product from this committee to the budget committee and the select all right well you know the other kind of interesting piece about this is you know we do have a policy right in place um so and if you know if you do

level low then you kind of negate this idea of ranking negates you know the ranking piece right and I think that's sort of what Joel is kind of get to would make this process a little easier as we go if that's the move ourselves well I mean I don't know how hard it is to change a policy take just take a vote of the select board or what does it select

a yeah so I would wait until that if that gets changed wait until that gets changed otherwise I would Contin polies I would recommend if we're going to start implementing this we need the whole story build we need the whole comprehensive plan and maybe we're

saying we need the whole comprehensive plan and we're perhaps saying to the department heads or to the town look right now the we're asking for is just covering the equipment in this comprehensive plan next year as our debt ratio goes down we're going to start asking for the buildings part of it and in five years we're going to start asking for the roads re you know the the major roads and bridges part of it but I think if we're going to introduce this we have to introduce it comprehensively not looking like a oh

now we got have the road that's that doesn't that doesn't begate trust in the town when you do it like that well I think that's a really good point and um the other piece of that is if you are you know if we're going to uh change that policy we need

to have a new policy and that it would be helpful to have all of you know our plan uh you know kind of codified in this new policy so what this what our steps are I think you have to write the policy based on the plan so I think we need Mark and the department has to do their job completely so that we can then write the policy I don't think we can write the policy first not knowing what yeah I agree story y so what I can do is I can I can put together if you wanted it all in one right kind of similar idea GRE which is one big capital reserve f project including Debt Service

coming out of that um I can do that up for you so that you can see okay we're going to put in everything including buildings including Deb service including going out let's say 20 years 25 years um and then I can show you okay

well in order to make sure that this this never goes below zero given your given your outflows uh how much you need to raise well that doesn't necessarily like so for example the 185,000 right that we have right but it doesn't necessarily mean that you would have to raise that that year in particular if you want to introduce this slowly because it might be such a huge jump from one year to the next from what taxpayers supp saying so long as the cash flow is going out that you're covered by what you're raising or what you will have in reserve okay you can you can implement it you'll still have the the full plan right you'll still have all of your capital projects and all your debt service in in this plan but you're just not raising at the amount that would be recommended in order to keep it nice and flat instead you're raising at a lower amount this year fully understanding that next year we're going to raise a little bit more

fully understanding next year that the following year we're going to raise a little bit more until we get to a plateau that's where we're going to be at right and that's generally where we're going to stay going forward so you would still have the pull plan and be able to explain to taxpayers we're not fully funding what we what would be recommended to flat from year one onward

we're ramping up to that flat amount and five years from now every single time you see it going forward after five years it'll generally be the same amount for a very small increase and I'm curious to see with the debt ratio going down I don't I don't think that steady climb is going to be that larger than a good I agree I mean what happens is the the longer that you is anything that you put in that's further out obviously doesn't have as great of an impact on how much you know the calculation that you would need to raise because it's further out in time right I mean in order to raise flat you know $400,000 for something that you need to purchase 20 years from now well that's $20,000 every year right or if you need to raise it 40 years from now well that that only adjusts your amount every year $10,000 so the further out you go it's not as great impct as you would think it would be it's actually a smaller impact right

on the current year but yes I I agree could definitely do% and I think as far as selling something brand new like this if if the select board and the budget committee are on the same page and recommend it it has a much better chance of doing that but but if and and if yourself if you're at town meeting as the chair of this and you get up in spe yeah we might we might be able to do this bring it right absolutely I get that but we all need to collaborate cooperatively do this together because if we're at odds it'll never pass yeah yeah and it might be something too that again when we look at it that we're implementing it in like 2025 versus this April because the numbers fit better how the debt ratio is

that's very helpful uh thank you Mark so did you have uh I'm just thinking with regard to and I I think that's you know that's longer term bigger picture very important hopefully we can all uh move in that direction with regard to this year and um the CIP process this year

I'm you know so this plan looks reasonable to me do the other committee members also feel that this is a reasonable plan to present this year when you what do you mean by as far as the the two Reserve amounts I here's the thing is I I'm not talking about the longer term plan what I'm saying is uh as in you know basically for uh uh in order to rep what we're requesting for Reserve this year are we going by this plan or are we going by equipment

the town There's no way you g jump to this plan I think if you page two okay well I'm looking here at page one and I see for 2024 I see uh a mower an equipment trailer and a pickup truck so that's what's supported by the request okay exactly and then what are we asking for Reserve this year oh okay he's asking for 205 I see

okay yeah that's GNA be tough yeah so maybe this year we just stick with our our replacement schedules okay so here's my question when would be a good time to bring it to town because at some time they're going to hear that number rather can't answer that question till Mark finishes his job we need to know what the compr we need to know what the comprehensive amount is going to be with the debt schedule in there with the building maintening schedule in there and once we see that I think it'll be a lot easier to determine when we can implement this person we bring it this year no at some point at some point at some point you have to bring it to the town's people and it's going to be a big apple to swallow we're not ready to bring it this year right I understand that but at some point you're still facing the same I think you're talking about the education part if we if we actually do a presentation of some sort I'm not

speaking for the board here but just CIP just bring a presentation in the town you Val you a mark of of how this would look what he did tonight and then that gets the education out there for everybody to understand yes for next year that we're going to possibly up to the board change CIP

the way that operates or maybe change the way we look at this uh for the future but I mean again that's that's a board decision not my decision but I mean it is a way forward with this um it's a it is a good idea um Jill's point I mean I I think with r math the what's coming out of debt service replaced with reserves like there's not going to be an additional spend the number of the buckets might change but it's not be like we need an additional right $400,000 it's going to be instead of paying Debt Service we're going to be putting this away which I would think would be interest so yeah my calculation is exactly what Jill came up but it's not that much of a Le to go to that number but it is an education process right I think if we plant the seed with all of the information at the town meeting this year I think looking at the numbers like guesstimation is this will be a much easier for people to swall in

202 especially if even if we change how we're doing our warrant articles this year to just have one warrant that it's our debt and Reserve amount so they see that am and think Vis as far as how Mone get I think it might be lack of transparency you're just saying we'll just give us the money as opposed to how the process

reserve amount and the debt amount you know we educate them to say okay in the past five years on average it's been this amount of money we're asking for it to stay this amount of money we just next you know um I've found the

selectman's budget select chair's budget presentation that has taken place at town meeting for the last I don't know years under K very effective in terms of uh educating the you know town meeting participants and voters and part of that is because you know you have everyone who is voting right there in the room and um he was able to use that very effectively that that audience um and if

for example we were able to have a short presentation by Mark even if it's only you know a 10 15 minute presentation uh at the beginning of the town meeting I would think that would be very effective in order to really do justice

to explaining this and um I think you know Mark also a lot of expertise that we have been meting in the past I think that that will me like uh we we're probably pretty much where we've been in past years except I I still do like the idea Jerry of kind of keeping with the uh somewhat condensed time frame so you know so voters can at least see you know focus on the next 10 years what's coming up you know what's happening in these next 10 years if you look at Public Works it's very compelling because you know you see that after a year if you go three or three years out all of a sudden we've got a $250,000 expenditure every year you know we need this is coming every year we're replacing all those flout trucks that um and cycling through all the spout trucks that we um that we took over bought

we know in terms and ultimately in terms of the warrant I think it's the selectman's prerogative you know what they how they want to present these items on the and the town manager ofo it is yeah um but there's ways of doing even need some education too yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah so what are your thoughts with regard to uh you know how you'd like to present it on the warrant this year which the would you like to have

these the individual warrant items you know basically the projects or you could also do it by Department I mean that would be another way to to group these items of course the town is used to seeing them as individual articles right it's how much as an individual and that's the question how much do we want to change this year or or not and that's a discussion I'll have to have with with the what because ultimately it's their warrant it's exactly so I gota I got to get input from them on what they want not not a decision we're going to make here tonight exactly so okay all right I

do think that having a warrant article that gives them authority to spend cap out of the capital reserves they I mean that's in longw because they're the trustees of it should should be on there in case there is an emergency they can authorize the money yeah and and take care of it yeah yeah so okay all right um I will say that with regard to the CIP piece and the CIP committee one of the things that I find most useful about the CIP process is the stting of the projects and um you know discussion of

Alternatives um uh what the basis for the cost estimate is all of those things um so you know I I hope moving forward that there might still be a place for you know if we were to go down this road of level funding that there still is an opportunity for that type for that dialogue however it occurs which is you know what we're going to be doing tonight after uh after we move on to the

next Mark yeah questions we still want to start with the fire department or do you want to sneak out no they're uh they're just wrapping up vehicle accident another one U I may just get a phone call I'll step aside but I'd love to push forward yeah very good yes that'd be wonderful uh Chief trip so um I believe you have in front of us a list a summary of the Committee Member questions I I do and so I'm just going to turn it over to you and um maybe we could talk about the reserve fund and you have and I will just note here you have ambulance Reserve fund uh the title of this is ambulance Reserve fund I think and especially considering tonight's discussion um you know to my knowledge there's not an ambulance Reserve bu there's a uh a fire department Reserve fire and rescue Reserve correct okay so um you know it maybe it's semantics but um my

understand is you know this is your this is your fire department reserve request fire and rescue reserve request so yes let me start just with the two pieces let let me start by saying this I recognized last year that the fire department requested 265,000 in capital

you know and that was broken down with um the exhaust removal you you know the flo B from the fire station um it was uh a generator needed to be purchased a rapid response vehicle and then we put aside uh and it was voted on 125,000 from arer funds to uh remodel or

revamp the the Quint the lad truck so I recognized last year that we asked for for a lot with there was funding streams there sometimes you ask for funding streams so this year we went like I understand as a team conceptor Jerry uh and other revenues just as you brought up Jill but sometimes it's not good to have the fire Park pitted against public works and I recognize that Public Works was asking for more this year so that could really be Reserve if you will of what we asked for so that's why there's only the two the first one is the 50,000 Reserve to be put aside for an ambulance in 2029 um just as I said and I do have the questions again that's not in line with currently the projected you know cost every year uh that's just a start I'm hoping to get close to the purchase price of rescue in 2029 and that's where that figure comes from I'm certainly underfunding that so that currently it it wouldn't be right a

check we' still have to come up with some funding in 2029 uh the the rescue and again we we we come into opinions sometimes so a rescue an ambulance you know they last five years in the cities so Auburn Portland and then they back we can go 10 years you know in the smaller suburbs and that's just based on technology trucks um mileage if you will engine hours but one of the questions uh certainly was you know how many miles do we put on a year and we're running about nine to 10,000 miles a year so in 10 years you're talking 100,000 miles um now these trucks just know the rescue was a Ford 550 doesn't matter the chass you can every Dodge ours ours is a for but it's a four-wheel drive diesel truck with emissions and it's not a super So when you say mileage it's not 100,000 miles on a superu this is literally drive 60 miles an hour slam on the brakes take a run drive 60 miles an hour slam on the brakes take a left and we

have 39 square miles of town um and recently with the call volume increasing we're increasing mileage call volume on the rescue so in that 2029 when it is 10 years old the plan is to keep the current rescue and purchase a second one sort of Front Line This would this this last one would be backline and that goes with redundancy of calls which is happened twice today as a matter of fact we we needing two rescue call uh ambulances on calls the first one we were out out at the hospital we had a second car wreck we needed a second ambulance that was Mutual Aid just they're at a multi-vehicle accident across town they needed another ambulance if we had two we could staff it we could build for it we could transport in a timely fashion rather than relying on others um that's happened a half a dozen times the the the double call a double hit multiple calls at the same time and also it's been down several days over years for

maintenance so you rely on neutral Aid so so that's the thought process in 2029 of keeping it also the trading values of these trucks are just worthless I think the last one you traded in you received $10,000 for it in in one year's time we can make that up with billing uh now that our ambulance billing is Forefront and on target we really double our revenues who's our billing contractor kstar out of Massachusetts Kar okay so recently we've raised rates through the through the through the board Mo on to collections again through the board sort of that's great would double the the income to the town and you guys they have good followup on claims that are like return they do yep yep that's their business that's how they sort of make money on top of their contract same thing with Collections and again uh education that money U I believe in 2019 was actually given it used to be an Enterprise account to the fire

department but it was given back to the town so that goes into undesignated right Revenue if you or comes into Revenue right um that again will either have to fight for or we all y try to use so 50,000 is currently where we're headed for the projecting to purchase a new Rescue in 202 okay in a lot of in a lot of towns and cities the ambulance is in a Enterprise account so the money that it generates revenues typically feeds that Enterprise for the

um okay so questions for uh Chief trip about the ambulance Reserve fund or fire department of rescue reserve only reason why I think the title is important is um you know it's good for the town's people to understand that while this is ambulance um it's not a separate Reserve account it's I think you know I think it's a little

only comment would be it does seem light considering you know what you've got coming uh I think it's a pumper and a other items big items that are coming down the road yeah it pushes that ramp up yeah pushes the ramp the ramp gets pretty steep there something I noticed yeah you know we we have five years left

right to to purchase it and again don't lose sight that these numbers for purchase five years out are really a moving Target right I mean with emissions you're talking big diesel vehicles um and then outfitting that I the prices are going up if you go up 3% a year that's another 15% on top of that um you know you could be upwards of another 75,000 on top of the half a million in cost we're just trying to Lo in at 2026 sort of pricing because it

may take two to three years to to order it and building I guess my other comment would be and this is kind of a general comment but it is reflective of that $50,000 figure when I look at this plan and I'm assuming these same numbers are on your equipment schedule but I look in 2034 at the 1994 Spartan Quint so replacement of the Quint yes and the number I see there is $600,000 which you know has got to be really really low considering one it's 10 years out and my understanding is there's you couldn't I thought you couldn't get any kind of qu for like less than a million so correct all all those statements are correct okay however it's this fire chief's opinion that because we we're sinking 125 to rehab the Quin it buys us 10 years which gets us to the 3034 yeah yeah but that's

awesome that's in the thought of purchasing another used vehicle okay in that year yeah yeah and also you'll star to see and hopefully the public will a lot of these pricing are refurbishment so when we're looking at the 2004 pumper since it was brought up and that's in 2027 it says another 125 that's refurbishing that pumper right again that's this fire chiefs of like like the Quint that even though we'll be pushing 30 years old 25 you can refer I mean

engine hours the maintenance the m cost where we're at mileage that type of stuff so I'm a big fan of refurbishment and not just purchasing you uh for the dur and that's just the current fire CH but it has to simula to the town managers and the boards you know overall comprehensively yeah that's wonderful um so uh yeah I guess that would be my only comment is that it seems a little light and I I guess that's also reflective of that you know my understanding is that the bond Service rates are really high so I'm wondering if you know we're not able to meet that in 2029 I mean it is

still five years away I guess but as Mark said you know you don't want to we don't want to deplete that Reserve you know because you're going to have other things coming up in subsequent years and I think to bring that up the generator was a perfect example so we were running really well with the fire department capital reserve and and I think the town approved a new generator last year for the fire department but they approved it taken it out of the capital reserve so I hadn't put 32,000 into the capital reserve specifically for a generator but that's where they chose to take it out yeah again give and take and different policies um so when we do put 50,000 sort of future capital or or apparatus

purchase uh sometimes we one step back you know with other projects all right so other questions um for the chief about the ambulance Reserve fund no but I I have a comment okay I really appreciate the fact that you're looking at this and it might be low or might be too high yeah the way the process works though we and and I'm I'm assuming that when we really get to putting the budget together the operational budget goes first then we feeding the capital stuff yeah and even though we have these numbers I'm assuming the select board can kind of change them to kind of fit where they belong so like yeah yeah yeah you know what I mean so I think they're fluid so it's really it's nice to hear that you're willing to go higher that fluidity we might not be able to or or we might you know apprciate as we're filling these out we're we're filling these out six months ahead of time we haven't done the operational budget yet

it's so it's just yeah so you know and and I I guess the other piece of that is with regard to budget processes there's still you know the budget committee right um uh but yes I think that's a really good point and we we're going to rely on you to keep that fluidity in mind thank you yeah okay all right so the next project is the uh FD CAD

and I think we were looking for because you know this is kind of new for us if you could you know just explain the project to us and what you currently have in place um those types of things oh yeah no problem what guys are doing across town and whatnot so uh CAD computer dispatch okay what

this is what this would afford US the 25,000 is purchasing three tough books with a stand and sort of a Wi-Fi that goes with it so that we can talk to dispatch remotely without a Radio currently how it works is and and I'll answer the first three questions with this explanation um we get toned out you heard us go to a car wre um and then you

get on in the truck and you get on a radio yeah we're responding yeah we're on scene this is what we need but there's there's no information updates in between dispatch because a scanner world can't give you all the information can't give you names over the radio can't give you pertinent information uh recently some of you may know we went to Leon last week um there's certain life saving important updates that they don't give over the radio I see we have no way of knowing without these computerated dispatch without a tough book in the trucks we have no no updates we're actually driving block um recently been into a murder suicide gun violence in Lisbon I was on that I did go to Leon so

what happens is we get back to the station we actually have to go on our computer on Outlook email and then print all the dispatcher notes and times that's how we get our times to finish our reports whether it's a medical or fire so I I pulled and it just so happens to be uh 10 pages from Leon the other night but I highlight a couple of things that are Life Safety that we're missing we're just not getting it um again 10 pages there uh narrative all

victims transported a narrative where the command post is um none of these are being updated the these are dispatcher notes on the computer screen and they don't have time to give 25 units all the information is this what the dispatcher is entering into the computer yes and it's what what the sh sh office and all the police cars have that little top hook right there that's what they're looking at we don't have it yet this is kind of their the dispatchers record of the not only record notes uh some of it can be u a hippo violation if it was given over the air um some of it can be

uh to a bad guy you don't want people listening on scanners exactly so just like the police see everything that's going on we would also like to see that but but we can't um you know this says Mid Coast will be accepting patients having a again this is one example I more knowing which hospitals at that time were accepting patients important to know uh but they don't have time to tell the 15 ambulances on the road and the fire trucks and everything else uh reports of actor shooter at the Walmart Distribution Center we were dispatched there your Durham Rescue I I was on it we were heading there be nice to know that there was a report and I'm not being funny but this is really just the case of what we're dealing with um Lewis in command post about the possible Shooters at the rusty Lantern I mean there was updates along the way um same thing again we got tone a mutual Aid rescue last month to Lisbon Main Street

uh the fire department was yelling on the radio we were responding it happened to me myself and others to a a person down a man down well we didn't know again it's in the notes but we don't get that until you download email that that was gun violence with guns on scene with multiple PA we transported somebody out of there um but we didn't know what we were going into and this is more often than not you're talking domestic violence violence with you know weapons uh this is just really standard in the industry for for police the other caveat

of this is uh Andrew scen County dispatch who we go through and contract with they're upgrading to the tune of for their software so it'll be real time um we just need to see so so this project currently will give us three three full units that that would be the truck I drive the utility the rapid response vehicle the rescue and probably our mutual Aid pumper truck which is engine 22 because we don't need without multiple radios of trying to listen we went to Lisbon last Sunday on structure fire um we don't know who's going we don't know what they're requesting except it's radio but dispatcher notes will tell you the size of the building they'll tell you if occupants are in or out uh you know it's I apologize we

don't get enough out on Facebook what we do but we went to a structure fire at the get and go I think Saturday night and you know those notes that the dispatcher has will say this building is 60 by 40 and the gas is shut off is in the back so when you have a pre plan all that information is there we don't get to see so we're actually going into a blind and would it also give you information for example on a structure structure fire regarding like if there's a water shuttle like where that takes place where they need to go what the rout is for the water shuttle it'll give you GPS turn by turn it gives you more than just dispatch your notes because of the Wi-Fi you can start bringing up um has materials you can do other things besides you know just your phone and the other example you bring up is Street fire that we had July 15th we had dispatch was on a third alarm was so inundated they lost track of which

tanker trucks they requested and I couldn't see who was coming now this computer would just say oh nor y sign P sign get one from Thomas you know I could at least see who's coming and whether we add another alarm or cancel

so it it really is standard in the industry we're looking at a multi-year roll out I thought you asked for revenue streams you know there was money left over in oura again I think that's the board and you know the town but you ask you know for a possible Revenue Street this is a smaller roll but it is important the other thing it actually does is it gets us off the radio I can literally touch a button and put us on scene I can Buton and clear the scene so when there is a hot call which recently there's been plenty of uh we don't have to get on the we don't have to command that that time yeah and I I'll just ask that people chime in with regard to you know your questions here I did I did I did write down answers to all of them so I I thought you know the first three is certainly explaining that was very is uh currently what we have in place is a radio and email um the example of the situation

again is just whether it's multiv victims gun violence you know what what we're really rolling into that we're not seeing current yeah now what do you find with regard to uh other communities so I assume Lisbon's probably already doing this I know Freeport has it in every I provided our 25 Dry hydrants to Freeport and they can pull it up and they can expand it and they don't have to ask the inent commander or the chief where the nearest hydr is loed for that I'm pretty sure NE gler yeah so it's the same thing it's it's starting to roll out uh again as a standard in the industry uh it it only helps it's only you know time sensitive time saving some of this is a safety issue when you're on the rest um will it upgrade all units currently that's three we have seven sort of units

uh but that'll upgrade the first three and then we can see tweak it from there whether we do the next next year would be the next reoccurring costs like subscription for the service so we already have Wi-Fi on some of the vehicles like the rescue so there is a reoccurring cost but that would be a pro line item budgetarily so just the wifi correct yeah correct um

the software I know the software all that will be provided by County dispatch so that will already be integrated we just need a way to see it we almost need the will to see it um and then you know the positives of like I said Hazmat pre-plans we can load things in ourselves or dry hydrant locations we can do all that ourselves so this is really just for the tough books yeah tough books mounting um you know the stands alone are almost custom I get it um because they have to be you know in between airbags roll over protected they have to be mounted specifically that's not something that we do we have professionally done um we did look up a

price that that's where we got that 24,000 roughly 500 um is a local company that'll do it um again just the hardware so not really any the software uh main EMS uh is is offering a WiFi cellular program for the rescues uh Statewide so that'll help us with that offset for the

mentioned something in your description about uh upgrades through our County contract yes so they're they're buying they're actually upgrading their whole software program yeah from from when they take a phone call a CPAP um their dispatch console all the way all their software some radios uh that type of stuff so uh they'll be able to Garner information and they'll be able to send more information we just need to see it so they they're going to be the ones that are going to perpetually upgrade the software as it go along so as they have upgrades and they they'll just push them down to down we we just need a way to see which we currently do yeah and these are power they come power you know they run right into the battery so they're always have power capability and then you can runon product they typically last as long as maybe a laptop the these are found more um because we don't have to keep upgrading

software so the hardware is just more than your personal laptop the tough books are a little bit more money up front because they're fireman proof If you will or they try to be you can drop them you can take them out of the Cradle when you put them in a special cradle they come with it Powers the laptop you have another external wire and then you can take the the top book out if you will so you can put it on the back of the truck you could literally send emails if you want you can send messages on a larger scale like we went to um but they are like sort of water resistant they're more than just yeah sounds like a great project what was that did you have that marked as a priority One or I have well two let

me see two just doesn't necessary yeah again that's up to you all okay I was excited about it I know it's a multi-year roll out just the opportunity to do it that's y all right other questions for the chief more of a statement than a question it also seems to me like it would save you a lot of you arrive it's not that 20 minute update of what's going on correct and I didn't say there's other thing you know we have a backup to our phone sort of it's called I am responding sort of a dispatch that we PID for a backup I can see who who's sort of responding but that's difficult if you ever driven in the dark trying to look at your phone and drive lights and siren somewhere and you're trying to see a little phone that that would be on the top book so I could just glance you know it's a safety thing while driving

you're on folks and there's two fees and trip so you it up would be the first um it is the other difficulty is you hate to bother the dispatch like can you repeat that address can you repeat the apartment number you know get it all the way they're very Vis yeah sounds like a sounds like an

important project thank you and thank you for um you know your your creative approach to uh your future equipment schedule and you know not just thinking about needs but how to get there in a way that it you know match is the some of our capacity here in the town that's really a wonderful thing thank you appreciate

statement from a budget committee point of view um if I remember correctly when when the budget committee gets their packets we get your guys's request so this is what we get there's no narrative behind it there's no nothing um you know I I enjoyed reading

the church one because it gave a lot of background it gave a lot of gave a lot of history and I think that gets lost in this telephone game and that's one of the reasons why you guys constantly feel like you're running up against a br is because you're having to repeat yourself several times and you forget to mention something um so I think if it's allowed

I would recommend that you guys take notes from tonight and update your applications I think that that is a really good point and I know what I've seen in other towns that I found really helpful is um if there are changes to the application then they're updated and you know we do this kind of very short process but that those updated applications are you know shared with the committee members you know to

at some point but I think it's a really good point and I think it's especially relevant to Applications where I think you know Chief trip had more than some in his applications but I know for example uh you know not to pick too much on Calvin but some of those applications Calvin were were weren't more than a sentence and the challenge there is exactly um uh what she said is that uh

you know we have to be in a position to be able to the committee members and especially me sometimes as chair to defend some of these applications that we don't have very much information on there it's going be we I speaking for me but we appreciate the question so it is a give and take process I I don't want to put too much on there and bore you or overload with technology yeah um and then when you give us those questions we can go back and prepare for tonight um you know to give a a full presentation and I'm not saying maybe update the application but I think the packet that gets to the budget the packet that gets to the towns people I mean I'm new to this committee and I you know I kind of did a practice of answering the ratings based on the application and I even said to Paul I'm like is it my job to go through the capital plan and get this answer because you know as the comp plan the comp plan you know I mean as as a

voter and a taxpayer and things like that I don't have time sure you know like my I mean I signed up for this and that's why I asked is it my job if it's I signed up for it I'll do it but as a taxpayer it's not my job to convince me

for you it's your guys job to do the convincing and I know in the past you've taken a lot of the questions and combined it giving answers and things like that at town meeting but I think having things written out that people can read ahead of time at least those that take the time to try and educate themselves getting the facts from you guys versus second third fourth 15th and on Facebook is going to be a lot more valuable this is true but I'll also say you know what I've seen at town meeting is you guys get to town meeting you're really well prepared and you're prepared to answer the questions and I've seen it from both calan and the chief um that uh you know given the chance you're really effective and I think that this process really helps in that regard to think about these questions because you know we are we're not only committee members but we're taxpayers and so you know we have the same questions that they're

going to have at town meeting you help us you actually prep us it's the coaching side of it before we get to the game it's lit really what happens because you're just a microcosm of the taxpayers in everybody's question some may not understand te ology some might not understand the funding stream that type of stuff so so it does help and you're right Jo we can um add or clean it up from here very simple it's already saved you can just pass it on from there and maybe the the the place to really think about this also is like you know next year when you're writing the applications to just you know think about like okay well of course the good explanation of what it is but also you know are there any alternatives those types of things um you know if you

can hit it if you can do a fairly good job out it the first shot that you know that'll that'll move everyone further along but you know I I actually found your application uh pretty reasonable I'll take it thank you Chief thank you thanks

thank Lu okay all right Calvin welcome thank you all right so let's get right down to it um the commissioner pickup is your first application yes so and what I did what I do every year is um people send me their questions I try to summarize them I put them all here together um and uh would

you like to start just with you know I thought this was an interesting question why does the Public Works director need a pickup truck so it seems like a good part you know that sounds like something that needs to be addressed and I know you can address it well I've actually been stumbling over that I don't even know how to answer that question

500 so every department head every Public Works director has a truck and me else I would be I don't know how I would get around to respond to Road emergencies or black ice or what do you use the truck for I mean you plow with it I see you it plow steady okay plow steady yeah and he's checking roads barrier if you need to close a road the signs usually the first one out there you take the tools probably take tools to the site if you got a crew working that's how I get around to work on getting the roads done getting pricing for next year measuring I have a measuring device in there that measures all the roads and breaks it into segments so I I think that one should be

what can we ask questions too yeah of course what would he do if he didn't have a truck well I think part of the question is you know he joked but you know why a truck why not a car oh no this thing plows this thing plows a lot of snow it might seem like a simple question to you but it's not necessarily obvious answer to everyone what are you plowing with intersections intersection some subdivision roads wherever we get behind if we get behind on a hill or having trouble but it's putting out fires and and I'm checking everybody's rout so each truck has about you know 12

13 miles and I'm traveling all of them to make sure that everybody's putting out what they should be putting and I got to get everybody out of here at the same time I need to make sure every route is the roads are in similar condition so that we can all be out of here I can't I can't just be here and say okay the roads look good on this route so pull the plug and then find out that on the other Town it was 5 degrees colder or different application rate had been used more traffic and snow pack had developed I can make sure the roads are be before we go home so I'm I'm covering the entire town so you currently have the HD 2500 right yep what are you

asking for you're I know you're asking for I think 87 or 88,000 but what is that that's same thing 2500 okay so diesel yes which uh the current truck is gas should have been Diesel from the beginning U they have much more torque for pushing and this thing is is struggling to push what it's pushing with a 10 foot pile so but I I in talking with uh other

people that was it was put in as gas because we had to buy everything all at once and so funds were limited and try to get the package all together with what funds were available that was the best I could Do's the differential it's probably 15 grand

so was some just there was a question about leasing I think in the current market leasing is probably not a good option very um there's a number of questions here related to the the condition of the current truck and um you know future

expenditures aside uh what do you you know what would be the cost of is there something physically wrong with this vehicle well I was tked I was tasked a few years back but and I had this challenge that most people don't have is that we started the department 10 years ago so a lot of things were bought all at once and so to try and spread that out you had to have some stuff a little early some stuff later to try and keep us you know get us out of that position where everything had to be replaced at once so yeah uh this truck is 10 years old I know towns I've worked in before everything was on a 10 year plan and that's what we did U after 10 years they start costing you money and it's more to do with it's to do then with is the truck broken it's I want it to be reliable uh I want to know that I can get in it it's going to I I don't want to wait till the truck is broke and then ask for a new truck and

then have to wait a year or two to get it it's trying to be proactive and the truck is 10 years old it it does it does have some breast because these are I mean right now I could stick all four fingers in The Rocker panel on the outside of the truck on the driver's side it's rting through there it's rting through and some of it is just a GM issue with that particular year of truck and and and additionally it's these trucks are primary functions to working when you guys stay off the road that's when we go out in the salt and the calcium chloride and we're running through that steady so they're they work in a very corrosive environment there's brake lines rust out the frames get very Rusty quick you know what's our current capacity with regard to the uh the Public Works mechanic I mean does he do is he doing rust repairs and welding and that kind of thing does that St or only prevented maintenance pretty much well

he's doing truck repairs but not thought would not that kind of work I mean he can't you know can't slow down rust or I mean yeah yeah yeah okay okay um I I think to you know when you're looking at replacing Vehicles it's really a philosophical difference on how you want to do because if if he's going to trade that truck in at 10 years he may he may get 18,000 buying If he if he

waits he may only get 8,000 trade in two years later the truck is even more the interest rates could be higher so it really is on I mean these are the numbers in so that said are you know that's a really good point um can you so this truck we're not keeping this truck for like uh as I remember I think it was a couple years ago we're looking for a parts Runner well so this isn't the parts Runner this is this is going to be traded in yes

price of repairing the rsus yeah um no the I could probably get the rest repaired in that range for the current visible all around the rear wheel well now is you know so probably more because they end up having to paint the truck around the entire real well is all bubbling rust um so I mean we went to an event yesterday training and public works all the Public Works trucks were there and I came out and looking at all these new trucks and we got that mind and it was like that doesn't look so good to here so so I'm I'm thinking that uh and and I'm not about competing with the Joneses by any means but I I think that the truck is is is due and and another thing to consider by prolonging it if you wait till 2026 it's competing with a 2 $50,000 yeah it's really that balance it's like how it's kind of like it's kind of like if we don't replace it now we should be putting money away exactly yes that's

exactly right that might be another thing to consider in that you know later digest after the operations budg goes through and we figure out what's going on what you figure out what's going on the warrant [Music] um okay oh uh so that 80 what is it $888,000 is

that right 87 does that factor in the trade in what you anticipate getting for trade in no that was what I was discussing earlier with Mark today it's like do we should we be factoring that we never have on the CIP but there may be some value in this case given that the truck is you know so right now we probably could get 15 or 20 for you give it another couple of years it's probably going to be l where are you getting your estimate are you sure this is a sufficient amount of money to buy this truck that you're after 87000 what I got the 87 was from the dealership buy that truck with no trade that's what be and and that's fully outfitted it's painted it's with the radio installed

um what will you do if this isn't approved so I guess you know that's kind of obvious I Jeep drive I'll keep coming to work oh that's good you okay I you're just not getting an official across people you know I remember there was a fire truck I forget what it was that they been trying for a couple years to get

was there and everyone could come over and look at it even my husband that been against it all theast years like the news plac and I was like okay you know so it you know getting that information out of you know yeah it's g000 to reps that we know now

not next year there's amount ofile on the transmission and the engine like people to understand pi and I think with with I mean he's been at a long time she's been there has to be some sort of level of trust out there in the staff to you know if there's no trust then I mean there's no hope for for us it's all in the wording

you know I trusted him when he said it's two to 4,000 guessing you know but it's all in the word consider repairing it no well that's po word I guess is what I'm trying to say because to a degree you did you might not have consciously realized you were doing it but as part of your job you subconsciously did do it yeah you know I would think like that application for example what would be really helpful to see in there is um that you think it's you know that maybe would say something like uh if I you know I check the dealership on trade in if we trade it in now we're able to get X and if we if we wait I don't know

because it has $129,000 miles on it and um pretty severe rust um and uh to fix it currently would cost why so you know a little bit of detail there would be certainly be helpful very helpful yeah but but um I think we have enough information from you that you know we can do what we have to do okay very good all right what about the equipment trailer the equipment tra tell us about that so that is a 2004 it's 20 years old and it

uh we've had it well a few times and it's always uh in the nearly 10 years I've been dealing with it has always had issues as far I I I believe the truck the trailer was bought used when the department was developed and it was bought from some guy that I believe from

what I can gather is had put parts on it from one trailer and put on a different trailer it it's very difficult to keep this thing the brakes are always locking up on it seizing up I I sensed in the questions that there might have been some confusion with regard to um what in this case an equipment trailer is because an equipment trailer can be like an enclosed trailer that you know you keep like small tools and equipment in or and I'm assuming that in this case what this is it probably carries m is that right car ramps I mean we we even use it the H trucks to the pair shop what do you pull it with regular wheeler tandem axle the big PL okay yeah yeah okay I think what might help them move moving forward as well snap a picture of the piece of equipment that we can include oh yeah yeah that would be really neat yeah um okay so do you think what's the alternative I mean uh so you know can this be repaired or do you think that

this cracking is to the point where it it's just you know well you fix one thing and it's going to crack again anything can be rep worried about its safety yes we've had to weld it this year to get a sticker on it again and we continue to work on the brakes are always giving us trouble as far as every time seem people want to use it that we have to have brakes taken apart mechanic has to work on it get it to go that's we're going to be bending somewhere we're dragging a wheel down the road smoke coming off a tire CU that wheel sees up you have to have it inspected I'm not familiar with that with trailers oh yeah everything everything that goes on the road has to have an inspection every year my trailer doesn't get inspected well you do for that size for that weight Lo okay okay that's that was my naess I was trying to fill in okay how frequently do you use the trailer

we have to hold the equipment over there I mean probably use it two three times a month ditching like ditch ditching the excavator we're going to go cut a piece of road out we have to move the equipment and buy a rub a tide excavator and then you can drive it we we even yeah that's you guys yeah much more a lot more you probably contract some yeah when you're talking to people that know nothing I'm like okay that's an alternative what's the price you know to show you are saving money okay other questions about the trailer um the life expectancy of a

new 20 years this this one's 20 years would start out with it we had it from the time it was new it wouldn't be I think it was purchased in a hurry I think to get it into the get the public works up and going well the roads are a little better these days May it'll last a little longer you bought this one used yes and you've had this one 20 years no it's a 2004 it was five years 14 years old or so when it was bought so and are you plan on bu the next one

maybe you don't want to buy that getting rid of it so correct if you were to go out and buy a used one what would you used one well I've been talking to them and they said if you can find one they're crazy money right now they said they just I mean they've gone up so much in the last three years they said just crazy

right so the first question is do you feel that the current reserve request is sufficient to fund your vehicle replacement needs Over the 10year Horizon that you have in your your schedule um so when I know that my recollection is that that figure what would be needed to fund it over the 10 years is something like roughly $200,000 a year um and I believe at the last meeting it was mentioned that if you add all of these things together you do come close to that $200,000 but if I remember correctly is the pickup aren't you asking for the pickup to come out of Reserve yes yeah so it's not really $200,000 because all of if you take all those applications together um he's only looking to raise I can't recall you

87,000 pickup truck and you're only putting 100 in yeah3 113 looking to raise the reserve and the whatever the other the trailer maybe the trailers if you're raising the trailer yeah so um I think the question is is it enough no I don't I don't so I think we demonstrated that earlier that it's you know how much uh I know in the past I've mentioned putting in higher amounts and I've been told by the board that good luck so so I I don't know how we get there other than educate the public as to I think once everybody sees the plan like Mark and work on that that that will help yeah because I you know I see Rec call last year you were you asked for 100 and um the budget

committee lowered that to 50 and 50 is what passed the town meeting yeah yeah and prior to that we had Co things got cut and exactly exactly yeah yeah yeah you know um I guess I mean I I certainly appreciate this approach that Mark mentioned about kind of the ramp up ramping up but you know we've been ramping up for a long time it it seems to me that um it makes some sense to ask for what you need in my opinion at least I don't have other comme members what you think you need yeah and you know maybe even if you were asking for 150 or 175 and you're were saying look you know look at look what I've got coming look what we've got coming in three years we've got a new piece of equipment every year that would be a wakeup call versus ah here's Calvin asking for his 100 we can cut that back to 50 like we did last year right well that's maybe they need a wakeup call I think effectively that if the truck if the truck were raised inste

of capies effectively that's and and I think to Calvin's defense he's probably tried to ask that before and again he just got done the same gets greeted with good luck so why would he continue to do that to be told good luck right so it's working on the education process Paul called it a wakeup call but I've been on the board five years it's not a wakeup call it's an education so you'll have to be open to that and kind of let go of you know we can't do this without Mar has mentioned just can yeah

well I think that equipment schedule really it becomes really clear that um in a few years you know we've got a major expenditure every year for really I think it goes like 10 years HP every year maybe a counter to that point is that I think with the proper planning and the right approach we don't need to raise tax taxes that we can have even approach and keep consistent interest still take care of the needs I'd rather not more taxes but I want to make the road are fire and we'll know how that bears out once we start looking at the operation budget and what that looks like and feeding what we actually need into what does that do to the tax impact and then we can start adjusting there yeah I I don't know you know it concerns me a little bit because I I mean I I look at both of these I look at the fire and I look at this and it looks to me like a little underfunded and then here we are we haven't even been to the budget

committee yet and I'm just I'm concerned about being in the same place where we were last where we have been in previous years and um uh it you know it seems to be a pattern and and you know there are different things we can do to hopefully get beyond that pattern but there's not just one okay I think education's important but I think we've also got to be asking for enough money right so that makes that goes back to a little while ago do we want to do that this year or are we waiting I think again we need the education P from you know here's the thing is uh in some ways I think by asking for more this year you know you're kind of queuing it up you know you're kind of putting folks on notice you know look we've got some issues coming up that we have to address and then by coming up with the plan you're addressing

reason I asked for the money out of capital is that if I order the truck by the time we go to town meeting it gets approved in June and if the truck doesn't come in until the following year the capital carries over and uh the other money I believe will disappear at the end of that at the end of U 2024 oh there so there's that kind of a lag time ra versus right that was my thought process at the time and I mean I don't know how Tak a while to get and that's a that's a good point because the way currently the way the Bor articles were written it was for that year that's correct yeah I mean you generally don't myew you don't want to for these types of purchases that may strad multip years want it to be raised and set aside two which is separate from the general fund so you you as far as the general fund is concerned you do have an an appropriation and it's not an expenditure it's a transfer out right

from the general fund to another fund it doesn't go out the door of the town it's still within the town but as far as the general fund is concerned it goes from it transfers out from the general fund to a a c into a cap project if it's going to be a multi-year or go beyond yeah but in general you know even if you're going to raise it and then spend it that same year that can be part of your operating budget but if there's any question like even the slightest question of well I don't know when I'll be able to get or when you're going to spend it you might as well put it into the capital reserve which is why in general for all capital projects with with my other clients we just just use that as a as a flow through so the tax money comes into the general fund goes to the reserve fund and then even if it was raised that year it can be expended from this this Reserve fund that year or if you didn't for whatever reason

especially the vehicles okay well it just stays here and then have the authority the repeat Authority every year of the the select board can expend from the reserve as they appropriate then you can from that you see what I'm saying yes and wer wasn't the town at one point

keeping the yes yeah so that so um the way that the town has been M maintaining its reserves is it's been maintaining it reses in the general fund um which is not necessary you can and it's actually better to separate exctly first of all it's better to separate out because it's E I think it's easier to conceptualize for just regular people to conceptualize what's going on it's also easier for the accounting my perspective um but it's it's much easier for people to understand oh yeah this is a bucket called the general fund that has a operating budget that lapses at the end of the year and anything that is going to that we're raising build this bucket up with taxes this year and flows out anything that we're we're going to expend next year or in some future year but we don't flow out the door of the town we just simply dump it from this bucket into this bucket and this bucket we can spend whenever we whenever we

need to harder to get a balance on that undesignated fund if you have them all together lump together if uh harder to get a balance on that general fund if you have them all lumped together the undesignated fund you yes exactly because then you know or what you have for cash reserves to spend right it's harder to get a balance to to know what you have to spend if you lump them all together oh I see what you're saying yes you have to go back you have to do the math every time that's correct it's much easier to just say well what's in the capital what's in the fire rescue Reserve F this yeah this is what started with exact this is what was transferred in this year and this is what we spent this year right which some of it was approved to be spent in know prior year some of it is this year whatever doesn't really matter absolutely because I mean we that the reserves were in an Excel spreadsheet but it was kept in the

general that's correct so it was hard yeah I mean they're both they're both I mean you can do it that way it's just as far as I'm concerned to explain it to other people they can much better conceptualize different prods you know so is it actually in a different bank account it doesn't yeah no it doesn't need to be in a different bank account it's just a concept right a different conceptual bucket right y okay so um you know maybe this is another case of uh you know thinking about that the res the request amount after the operations budget is done I don't know you know I'll just throw that out there um but and of course there's the pickup truck you know we don't know yet exactly how the pickup truck is going to rank where that's going to go but yeah I mean we're on such a tight budget and if we do move to the July 1 to June 3 we can change this but ideally this process and picking these should come after exactly

operating we're putting we're putting the C before the horse some something so it makes it difficult I mean we we talk about all these numbers but we have no real hard fast number to put in here at this point they're really just they're really just the budget numbers at this point so we have one other question here before we get off of this that's under the reserve and that's number three what is the break even point of yearly rentals versus full ownership for loaders and backos and then there's a part two of this which is have you looked at the cost of Contracting excavation work like ditching to a Durham excavating company

or rental which would basically would be a a leasee I'm assuming you're talking us it 40 hours a week oh oh I mean in fact in years past I've went to the second one just to try and get this we were so far behind on ditching and the drainage was so poor that uh it's it's Tak a lot get caught up and and and if still behind on the gravel roads that we we really to get where we are today it's taken everything we've had that machine has done that's it's it's more than it's more than PID for itself the U and and I think that to go to as far as Contracting we did that in

the past and that's I think how we got in the position we were in the RS were not ditched and not um I I'll just make one suggestion and um you know it just something not related to this year your request this year or whatever but just uh for information I have no idea how this like coughs out or how it PS out but it might be worthwhile um talking with Ted Ted Shane over in new globster uh because probably as you know they use Bowie uh to do all their ditching and you know I don't know why this has never gone out I don't think it goes out a bit I think they've just been doing it that way forever um but it might be an interesting cost comparison because you know the two towns are not so far apart with regard to miles of Roads maybe new gluster has like 10 more miles or something like that um and they use they don't even own they don't even own a uh an excavator they do that contract it all out might just be an

interesting cost comparison for you I I again I have no idea how the numbers do how the numbers work out and what the what the benefits and costs are I'll just thr want to go back to the pickup to answer Jill's question on why I said no I wasn't trying to be flipping the question was a bit confusing in that it it would it would seem to send a message that the truck is broken so when it to consider the cost of fixing it versus buying a new one the truck isn't broken the truck is just old so I really didn't know how to answer that question well it sounds like it needs rust repairs yeah has and um so are we doing our is our mechanic doing inspections no okay we're taking them like where do we where would you take that druck the Mid Coast Tru there uhuh and when was the last inspection that one probably I think do no do this much so I guess you know my other question is has somebody done evaluation on that truck to look at you

know what the are there unseen things like you know I don't know CAD corners or floorboards or whatever or even frame sections you wouldn't think that'd be the case in a 10-year-old truck but you know you are using it in a high uh

corrosive environment corrosive environment yeah I think any other questions for Calvin all right thank you Calvin yeah we appreciate it and um you you guys do a really nice nice job on the ditching that's what we do yeah it's really well it's important okay all right thanks thanks and of course winter roads and everything you do it's appreciated all right so the next Department we have is we have the or the next application is the re the reval reserve which is under assessing and um the first question and I assume I'm assuming since we don't have Donna here um and you've been representing this application that we'll just you're ready for our questions J I'll do the best I can yeah okay well I'm just GNA hand it over to you okay so the current ratio right now is 67% okay

not um doing re-evaluations for over a long period of time is that uh the penalties is tree growth reimbursement and Veterans reimbursement what does that mean it means that they won't get reimbursed it'll it'll um they won't qualify the state will pull it until we do our reevaluation so they won't get the benefit of that tax am or get reim

the people the people that well it goes through the town they just they won't get the credit for the tree Goen B veterans they'll pay more taxes because of that so what about the town and Homestead because I thought that the town gets reimbursed at a different rate yeah no it doesn't really affect the homestead no no that's what Donna now I've called up Donna and preper these questions so we can bring her in okay if if you want no okay but she said there not really any effect on the homestead okay so was she saying that currently tree grow and veterans are voes at% no

if we don't do the revaluation soon the state can penalize the town through tree growth reimbursement and Veterans reimbursment so the the the evaluation yes should be between 70 and 110 and they like you to do it like they try to like do it every 10 years it's been 15 years since this and there's a lot that's going on so this addresses the Badness to all the other taxpayers that are getting fully taxed on any Renovations that they have done on new ones where if during Co there was a lot of stuff going on and we maybe they filled out a permit maybe they didn't we don't know until we do the full yeah reevaluation so when I when I started here that was one of the first things da to come into my office and said we need to do a reevaluation so following her expertise in the just let you know yeah yeah um and and there's been there's other towns and and and what drives this what drives some of this is during this pandemic

when they're selling houses for $100,000 more than they're worth that drives that up Joe and I went to a meeting the other day North Isa the exact same so it's a lot of towns are facing this problem right now because of that because because of the inflation that we have gone through it's it's a real issue which gets to the next question which drives up the demand for reevaluations so when when the demand is up it's they're harder to get and the price goes up that's that whole Supply demand type thing so the estimate it I don't really want to even call this an estimate because we haven't gotten an it's just a budget number for now so we put 60 in at one point we're asking for another that's at 120 so don I've given the RFP it's ready to go to Donna she'll view it on Monday and we'll try to look at it soon it's going to get packaged up it's going to go out then we'll have a real estimate on what they can do the town for where

does the 180 come from just Dawn I thinking you know this is what we've seen in the past and given the size of the Town Joe is this like so this is like a full rebound full re has to go inside the house yes absolutely yeah so

she just I mean we just don't know we it's hard to nail down prices you know without going out to bid you know so you know at one point there was supposed to be a market adjustment but it just didn't get done yeah well actually I don't think you have to convince us yeah because we've already like highly ranked the market adjustment like two or three years in a row and then it just never happened happened because of like Co and and the craziness of the market right and then I think Donna finally came to the conclusion of you know what we did before we right and you know to re there really are no Alternatives I mean a market adjustment is an alternative when you're not 15 years out so yeah yeah okay all

theice not yeah well they may tell us actually when they can get to thinking to us and say I do it in June now we 8,000 by June not they could but I trust what John Donna is thinking she works for other towns she does the sessing she's in it I just trust what she says and I you know and I got that's all I have to go on yeah she doesn't do rebells her company doesn't do rebells themselves no it's just her right right well she right exactly she wouldn't do it because that's like the Foxx walk in the H house oh well I know some companies do do that they advocate for it really hard they to the companies that have the assessing contracts like in aen yeah I don't think she would be in favor of that at all okay yeah I'm just you know I'm not suggesting it I'm asking if like she's like if that if you know the second half

what she would is this oh oh yeah yeah yeah that's a good question so um yeah so the question you know and I think probably for a lot of us this might be a little bit of a rhetorical question but you know why are we doing a reel is this about income for the town for fairness well it's even more about state law that you have yeah so you have that so but there's fairness fairness is that's really what it revals about that's what I was as I understand just sort of saying you know you've had some people over the uh course of the pandemic they may not be tax they may not be taxed on certain things that they've done you know someone built a new garage and they're not being taxed on it's not fair to the neighbor who has a garage that is being taxed yeah some people pay more some people pay less right exactly and it's just going to be interesting to see where it all comes out with the new you know with these

prices and you know what are the values of these of our homes you know yeah yeah so yeah all right and you know and yeah it kind of is about income too because that's what pays for the services in the town right well it is yes right right right absolutely it is my understanding is the tax B that the income to the town doesn't change because it's a recalculation of the mill rate right yeah exactly you you can do that but I don't know if yall paid attention to the Brunswick they did that same thing and my taxes were going to go up 1200 bucks so that me some other property went down right yeah third is supposed to go up a third is supposed to go down thir that is not my bailey Wick at all so I don't you know I shouldn't speak on the amount of taxes that you ra is the same it's the same regardless exactly yeah it's really just how it's allocated am I pulling right all right all right yeah all good

questions okay so um on to the next one yeah town office reconfig yeah so this was when I when I came was employed this was one of the goals I think Kevin had it up on the screen at town meeting to reconfigure the town office because we're running out of room yeah with employees so the

really the only place to reconfigure the town office is this room right here there's nothing else to we conf figure I we could probably close one of the bathrooms put in there I don't think that's ideal um that's I think the bonds is in there so really it's really just dividing this room in half it's literally just building a wall here you know piggy backing off the electric put a couple boxes sheetrock get painted it's it's a pretty simple uh reconfiguration um I don't have there's really nothing else that we can reconfigure in this office other than this room this was a discussion that Kevin and I had to when I came over how how um you know what are you

asking for for money again 15, and that's just a budget number you know like we did get a quote we did we did get an estimate yeah we did and uh we we got a quote to move the fire and it includes electricity includes everything that you have in there okay so you know that again it's a budget number and what about things like office furniture yeah we we've got some office first there might need to be some that will be have to be purchased I don't you know shouldn't be much but includes lighting but yeah the lights it's really a wall that's getting built from where that clock is we're going to divide it's going to hug that window a little bit more kind of dive into there there'll be a three foot fire door what about heating

heating yeah you got it hereat you got it so are you going to have a heater in each room yeah over here yep okay yeah everything's good it's all been um looked at it's a pretty simple REM really there's really not lot to it yeah so and in the security thing yeah there' be a door knob on the door and will lock it so sometimes when you do building upgrades you then it triggers that you have to be ADA Compliant so is this going to trigger the need to have to up comp no no no

upstairs literally it's just a wall being built here sheo off on both sides maybe a little soundproof insallation because I like to have some confidentiality when I'm talking to my employees and they might in this side over here will still be a small conference room where people can do their absentee voting or Allan sees a lot of folks too and they like to come in George sees a lot of folks they like so we still need to have a little conference area this is really the best way to to achieve that

um yeah absolutely so yeah by by doing this it's gonna it's going to shift people right now we have a parttime employee that sits at a TV tray that's his desk or her desk for that matter so by doing this and getting me out of one of those offices it's going to allow them to each have an ergonomical desk to sit out to do their work um so it does provide a better ergonomic work environment for them and yeah it does include it does include because we're using them now it's really it's really just trying to get him or her off that out of that TV TR but we have chair he's sitting in the chair now but you know these these things here this is another one of these things where it's nice to have in capital unless I can put it in my operating because these things get chairs and desks you know sometimes you need to get a new one or computers stuff like that so you know like we don't have computers and programs here

they last you know five six years and they're outdated we have nothing in place to automatically update those as we we just updated them so we're good for five or six years but again those are some of the things that we should probably put in our Capital plan because those are those are needs that we're going to need um so uh bathroom upgrades don't need no bath upgrades but the electrical upgrades are included because we're going to need outlets on this

operation on a temporary basis I hope not when we when we replace the the furnace upstairs they did that during off hours so I'm hoping well I'm not hoping it'll be part of the bid that this gets done when we're not when we're not here working so either at night weekends how old's this building that's a good question I don't know you know Joe early 9s early 90s yeah see you probably don't have to contend with the Le if you that's yeah it's a really I I was in construction for 12 years I probably 50 60 houses under my belt this is just this is child's playwork let the contract yeah I know I understand you putting in an estimate is that what you're saying right I know but I'm just that's why there's like no scatch because it's just a yeah yeah yeah right

well so it sounds like it's better utilization of the space yeah it just yes it does give us a little bit more a lot more um so could we talk a little bit about um other meetings you know where meetings will be held of course you know currently so we're we're repurposing this space for staff and now how the you know meeting demand will be handled so in the me so right now in the in the meantime for these uh meetings select board meetings planning board the stuff that we really like to stream live we can do at the fire station the Union Church committee the conservation they can use the Eureka Center if they want to use that for for their meetings there's been talk about a eure center making a I guess a boardroom over there I I'm not real thrilled about that but again it's not my call but I got to tell you my opinion I don't believe a community center is a place for a boardroom where official business is

going to take place because it gets rented out like every Tuesday they play cribbage now I don't know if they go in there with coffee and cupcakes and all that but we have a meeting on a Tuesday someone's going to have to go over there and set up the room with tables and chairs so we can have a meeting most towns have a boardroom or a council room and that's what I would like to see this town have and not set up plastic chairs and tables to conduct a meeting who's doing our TV work you know our TV filming now who where's that P that's that's Devin okay and right now it's in that that closet yeah Chief has a nice little closet over there and it's the least expensive to get set up at this point to move the meetings over the air would get moved over is that that would work yeah we' need to get a laptop to run it because we just need one camera and it goes up through the ceiling goes into the computer room and

and then we going to get wireless mics and some of the other equipment like for example the TV you know that you have in back of you the projection screen yeah things like that would move over or if if need be if needed yeah um yeah I I don't know if it would really actually be needed in here in a small conference but maybe so that that I will say that is my kind of biggest concern is that I think it's really important that um you know we to do uh a

good job of streaming meetings with regard to keeping the public informed public information you know what and that we don't that this doesn't result in a loss to that right and and that includes things like uh you know what do I know you know I don't know what the Conservation Commission is doing these few days but but you know CIP um uh you know other committees that might

have be recorded or go live these days and you know I have to con confess I don't spend a lot of time on on the Durham channel so I don't really know what's what's happening there but um you know I just want to make sure that these other committees have the opportunity to uh to you know be filmed and and have those broadcasts and the other piece of that is is you know if you don't do that then under under fo foa you've got to take minutes you know you don't have recording of the meeting you have to take minutes which can add another administrative burden yeah and you know that's that's kind of like a shortterm medium- term go until we because we really do need more space now I know that in the file on there I think I may have said this last meeting back in 2006 they somebody here did a plan to expand this building so it was an issue then and where we continue to grow so it's even more of an issue

now what I would really like as far as filming and TV I would like to be able to wherever the longterm is to be able to have a camera on a TV screen so if there's a presentation done the people viewing can actually see the presentation while people are talking I mean there's a lot we can do just going to take some time to get there you need a devoted space to it we do I do I think it's kind of like a meeting room this is where all this equipment lives yeah I mean dur special place it should have its own boardroom like it's like an official boardroom and I just don't know if that putting it in a community center that gets rent it out to the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts Sy the is the best idea but that's just my opinion and the the town will have to decide which way they want to go with that all right I think we're on question five Yeah question five no we should not infect any insurance or employee safety

rates well upgrades affect office operation on a temporary basis I'm going to try to have it done while we're not working there if there's some disruptions they'll be has I don't think the comprehensive plan has anything to do with build

no no right no you know it's just good governance right yeah uh yeah security so there'll be a lock on the door that'll be secure that I'll have the key to and probably sure they're the same size as in the behind the glass

um so why did I request the money be raised raised instead of using the municipal Capital fund you know that's a great question you know this I don't even really see as a capital request but it um well it is but not like on a recurring basis I mean it's a one-time thing you know I would be okay just ask them to select board for the 15 out of the municipal capitals it is and not raising it at all um I raised I put it down because we only have 90,000 in the Municipal Capital fund as it is it's a small Pro but I think I didn't I put down Opera for this yeah so I'm looking at Opera so how does it qualif you verified that it qualifies oh absolutely okay yeah and I mean I guess going back to two Reserve versus ra is getting together with Mark because right you know right now everyone's like yeah there's nothing need for Reserve fund for the municipal there's no plans there's no buying a truck there's no buying a

trailer you know but there is the building maintenance exactly we are truly looking to expand there's that and there's that there's that meeting space that dedicated meeting space right right right it's an interesting way of addressing the problem because um you know moving the meeting space somewhere else fully utilizing this building because you know would be probably very otherwise you would be looking at doing a major addition right to this and another reason why I like it too and moving the meeting space over to the fire department there's always somebody there and there's been a lot of people that have keys to this town office and that makes me a little bit uncomfortable because they need to get in to come to the come to the meeting so that would be less people needing keys to this to building okay so where are we here uh we had 11 I 10 I I taking and again I did take

um I'm pretty involved with my department head so before I even the chief and I sat down and I wanted to make sure that he was okay with this you know he has meetings over there he has training so was really nice it's set up really good now was it gonna put more work on his volunteers to maybe have to clean up a little bit more sure it is you know but he's he's good about it yeah did he just come in

park in front of the garage know so I'm not sure there might have been some confusion here the reason for the scanner was to get the plans out of the office that they work at because just it was just clogging it all up so to be able to good seeing you nice to see

for the storage so the scanner was used to get all the plans out of the C enforcement officers there already two people using that 10 by 10 space so I don't well I know there was a lot of conversation about getting the paperwork that is in storage electronic yeah that would you know that might be a job for like an intern to come in and but they would have to like scan it in right it's a huge job it is a huge job you know I know when my when I was a state employee the do high they they

individual property jackets but I mean you're I mean you have over go take a look at the storage now it's packed it's got files problem cards we still we still need you're always going to need that space absolutely internship would that be well you know going to my college and getting a degree business all right what's your internship scan stuff your education my but my

Real World buddy get to um number 12 is a is a nice is a good question too and given the time that I got this question and the time that I'm trying to answer it is a little tight but just for an idea thr I know if if it was a 30x30 addition and it

was $200 a square foot so that's 900 time 200 you're looking at 180,000 that and I'm just completely guessing that the the square foot cost of building these days is 200 I don't I can I can find that out and I think that's a good I think this is a good discussion to move forward I think this is a bigger discussion moving to to kind of add on that meeting space that we need it's a great it's a great good

answered 13 I think you already answered that yeah all right um very good any other questions about the town Alice Space and I know this is something that has been kicked around for quite some time and that um really if you take a hard look at the space behind the glass it is uh it is very limited for the number of people who work back there all right um on to ordinance

codification so this was a um project that was that came to me first from the codes officer because okay he's very frustrated with our land use because in a lot of cases he doesn't know what to do because the because our is so old and over the years copying and pasting to it has really shifted things and there's inconsistencies with our land use ordinance and state law and there's inconsistent we don't even it's very difficult and so I struggle with the title of this because you know it sounds like they're doing a review and why isn't the title just land ordinance review well rather than codification well because well that's what they call it so I mean we can call it we call it anything you want whatever you want to call it but that's kind of that's the term for it yeah but and I know because it catification you're saying this is going to go into law right well it is already into law I mean it is it is so

they're taking our laws that's good and looking at them and see if they line up with state law okay so it there a lot of issues with it um like I said the code enforcement office and we have a really good code enforc he's on top of things he's do when he comes to me he say I don't know what to do we talk to George and it's like well that's just the way it was written it's like I know but so there's a lot there's a lot there that needs too so what this company does is they will take the whole land use ordinance they will take the comprehensive plan and they will make sure that everything kind of Falls within the plan and state law and point out hey look this doesn't follow state law this doesn't that's the the comp plan and uh and provide a punch list which now we give to George and the planning board and now they have a list of things that they can now bring to the select board and say you know these

things we really ought to work on initiate a change to bring to town meeting so they're not really changing the codes they're just let us know where we have issues and kind of Point them out is there already a company in mind for this work or no we just wanted to get I didn't know what it was so I had Al bring somebody in and say you know talk to me a little bit more about what this is um now there have been people out there that say well that's what George does well George is a is 20 hours a week and George is wrapped up in all of the the ordinance changes and working with the the the Committees and he doesn't have time to do all of that research Plus work on ordinances to get ready for town meeting prepare for planning board meetings subdivisions it's just way too much has this proposal been reviewed by the planning board yet and I ask that because you know so we get this review list that's probably

where this is headed right you know to a board to to take on this task and I was just wondering you know whether you've had an opportunity to talk with like the chair or well the chair is familiar with it okay he he he knows about it uh yeah

um yeah so okay so the the example I think confused me because it's really not summarizing 11 ordinances throughout the document that it may highlight them in the end that you've got something here here and here not reorganizing that into a

c not making edits to the ordinance or an edit proposal right not bringing it to the proposal stage no that's the job of this town to do so that'll still be the job of this town to go and do that saying that you really I'm not saying this isn't a bad thing I'm just yeah trying to visualize in my mind what the document is g to look like when it gets handed back to us and I get the whole ification between state federal laws and what we have in place and making sure that either they align or they don't for some reason um but just within the ordinance itself um and I get how the comp plan would affect that where we call something out there that's not marked in the I'm just it still leaves a large amount of work afterwards not saying that this is a bad thing but there's a lot of work to do afterwards like that when you get that red line it's going to be a huge Red Line what I'm expecting but if you don't do it it's even more

work for the town to I agree I'm not I'm just trying to visualize and and and frame this up as to what you're G to get at the end of the day because it is missing that component of the big picture you know it's it's kind of saying like you know can can I have a plane ticket to fly to Orlando would you're leaving out the part that you're going to like you know there's going to be a huge expense that is created because of this review list because there's going to be a lot of errors that need to be corrected in a timely manner because if you take I mean how old's the comp plan

now seven years six years old it was over 10 but you know if you we're still not even our ordinances still aren't even in alignment with the comp plan planning boards been working on that so if they're going to be working on this list at the same rate then we're no longer in line with the state laws because the state laws have changed a lot of towns have a separate kind of ordinance committee they go by different names a land ordinance committee right and I had and I had kind of mentioned that did the town have a ordinance Review Committee and what that turned into was the chairs getting together and deciding it was called a planning Summit at that point are they going to work on for this year but that doesn't address the problems that we still have right now right so planning board a plan board it's really hard for them to keep up with it oh absolutely and this just kind of helps them along and I mean they

don't have to they don't have to tackle every issue all at once they can prioritize exactly they can pick what might be but they have to do it in a timely manner if we're going to spend the $15,000 and then yet we can't even reach the task like Jo saying of fixing

all of the red flags you know we need we need to have that cart prepared or at least some at least some draft conversations of you know maybe with the select vot or something but are we going to create a whole new group that just addresses these ordinances to get it done in a timely manner are we going to hire another company to do it like that's a policy decision I think depends what you get back in the review because you might get back a lot of you know small things that aren't consistent with state law like you know in the subdivision ordinance for example um and they might be a lot of them might be easy fixes like you know one Passover easy fixes and then you might have some things that really require like big rewrites that

take a lot of time and even if you have a separate committee you know if you have significant rewrites it's going to take uh it's going take time and probably the bigger you know you may find that the bigger project is the consistency with the comp plan and that a lot of these comments are so specific that you know large percentage

of them stick them off this particular company has done this this task for 23 other towns in the state um so and was this estimate derived from that company yes okay so maybe asking thean what sort of workload did you create for the

town depends asked the towns that they created the workload for yeah for me as the manager I'm not so concerned about the workload what I'm concerned about is our codes guy in the planet being able to tell people what they need to do so they're not violating laws but you're still not going to be able to do that why not because he's just going to have a list all the errors nothing's been fixed he's just going to have a list of all the errors right but that's then the town has to figure out how we going to f fix these we got to go to the next step that's what you're getting at we do need to do that depending on the state stuff and the federal stuff fix right away exactly but the rest of it you could chunk off in pieces figure that would be the next step have to figure out usually spend a lot of time writing ordinance it's kind of like the gray areas it's like more like you know Aesthetics and

you know do you want to allow dead end streets you know and connectivity you know all that stuff so but when it comes down to like this legal stuff it may not be that uh you know they may may be more straightforward fixes and things where you have to have like a a ton of discussion about it might be a fairly straightforward answer state law is this so you know we need to fix this to read this yeah I mean you're you're are more than welcome to have a conversation with George because he even mentioned to me that look we've got some issions with that right no I don't think it's a question of the priority of this I guess what is in my mind is if this is going to give us a list then we then have to sit on for another year because the expense of doing that list isn't in the budget so now we're sitting on it for a year till 2025 to get the budget to do it like I guess I guess that's why I'm saying maybe chat with some of the other

towns so that maybe you're asking for $30,000 and that allows you to get the list and budget for the CH you know the but the implementation of the changes but who would we pay to do the implementation of the change town meeting you I don't well right that's what the changes have to get apped that town meeting yes but if we're if you're spending the 15K to get the list but you don't have the money to make the changes you're now waiting till 2025 to get the money to make the changes and now you're waiting till 2026 to get the voting on the changes you're really you're really delaying things if you're not thinking ahead but you don't necessarily need money to make the changes right it's more you know capacity that's exactly it's a capacity question unless you know you hire someone to lead the process the I'm saying chatting with some of the other towns and getting an idea what you may or may not need might help this in

in another hurdle I won't say a hurdle but it could get done faster if we were a council form of government we can make those changes every two weeks and we'd be done but we can't do that in this town because it has to go to town that's what I'm saying we got to look at that we're not getting delayed by years yeah that's just the way it is yeah all right so um let's see if there are any other questions on this I how does it qualify for arer it's it's eligible for AR why that's a fedal question okay so this is an arpa project okay

specific examples you'd like to share which are we looking at five well I'm sorry I jumped I'm looking at six this sign's back L driveways there's all kinds of back back if I gave you all the backlogs intern right now you would look at that and you would know how to do you wouldn't know what to do with it yeah the internal inconsistencies exactly that's where it gets tricky yeah it says one thing one place and things somewhere else yeah it just the way it's divided up it's it's very difficult to it's a road map that's what we're looking for yeah we're we're going we're going need R right yeah I to say about it there's inconsistencies with uh 12 and 5.14 the

historic district commission and then the historic district itself and who does what does cod do it does the historic district commission do it who's doing this you know so yeah yeah that can be cleaned up yeah all right so those are those are some okay and um so with regard to number seven who's recommending that we do this it sounds like it's the code officer that you know yeah your discussion with him about the challenges that in consisten it's Alan George and Jerry uhuh okay all right Jer me I was thinking like outside I apologize I was like you didn't say me you said Jerry so I was trying to think of a different Jerry so have you had to call in like the town attorney to settle this stuff has it cost us anything there okay yeah but there is some probably you know risk and he's got to make decisions and they could have legal implications right and we would maybe have the town attorney look at some of this stuff when

I don't want to just give it to him just to give him something to do because it costs money as it is right now they only f 10 grand for our attorney so I don't want to give too too much to okay any other questions about ordinance codification all right so moving on to I believe it's the last one um and uh i'

just like to before we dive into this one there kind of a heads up I seem to recall at the last town meeting and I can't recall the purpose of the request was it for the study that no it was to help replace the Sills to replace the sill and was that work done no wasn't done but it was approved the money was approved yeah so why wasn't the work done because it cost more than the we have for money to do it I see I see um so you know I seem to remember

when Lois stood up she said that you know one of the reasons she was standing up was because um I don't know if she asked the town manager about the IP process but there was some there were some questions there you know like she had kind of wanted a notification it's my recollection or uh from the town you

know like when to apply and those kinds of things her committee is the one that filled out this yeah yeah exactly so they filled this out but she did right have you has she seen the the questions uh no um but I think I can answer most of them yeah well you know you might just kind of just keep her in the loop oh yeah just say yeah you know the committee met and you know these are the questions we discussed you know this is what I said you have anything to add and because I'm just thinking you know it's it would be nice to be inclusive in this case and I I didn't really think about it the other night but I know that she had some concerns last time and I I just want to make sure that you we're being responsive yeah to and I will try to represent her as best I can okay yeah sounds good okay y so there is historical significance on the register and uh the town is charged with it's it is a town owned

the town being used by the historical societ to store their historical artifacts and stuff so that's what it's being used for right now historical value right now is the that it was a church and town no it's a it's an old building I mean she could probably answer that better but it's on the register it's on the register absolutely yeah how many I wonder how many buildings in town we have on the register probably not that many you know right

um yeah okay is there a plan for the building's use or fors repair um well it's it's being used right now like I said by the Historical Society back in 1988 the Selectmen gave uh use I don't have the exact wording but basically gave them the use and uh them to use it for their use and uh

so they've been using it for for quite a while um and is there is there for repair that's in the works right now to to uh talk about there is a union church committee that's actually talking about this building and what we're going to do with it what's the we want to do with it um so I have to ask I wonder if it could be a meeting house you know sometimes for sample New Gloucester has uh they turned their old uh 1895 Library into a dedicated meeting house and that's where all the public meetings are okay they've got all oh over there yeah over there there

was actually you know daydreaming one day going that would be like a really cool place to have meetings it's a it's a really nice building but it's just you know it was it's it's an 1800s building the traffic has changed it's pretty solid really but yeah it it definitely needs some work yeah yeah um okay so when will we have the structural engineer assessment hopefully soon hopefully soon I he when I called him a couple weeks ago he said he'd have it to me in a couple weeks is he putting costs in there no this is just a structural evaluation yeah are we mandated to repair it that's a good question it's a town owned building um I I guess you could let it fall to disres if you wanted to but I wouldn't advise that so I don't know about mandated I don't know if anyone's gonna you know yeah West Methodist

Church yeah you know so I don't think it's Mand to repair [Music] at comprehensive stopped using it as the back to Church committee that's talking about this um what what are the alternatives for that building so I'll defer I can give you an answer once they get back to the uh the select board on what their recommendations are for the building is this another one of those cart before the horse just because way life goes like you were talking about how you know normally you do the operational budget and then you figure out the comprehensive you know is that kind of what this is as well is that the hope is by the April town meeting will actually have a a plan and an idea for this church this should be a decision coming out of the Union Church committee um do

they have a deadline um yeah pretty much they're just really waiting they're waiting for that report right which I've already talked to the engineer and there's nothing uh structurally wrong with the building at all so they can continue to meet if they would like because they're just going to read it and go okay this building is is safe there's nothing structurally it has its structural Integrity if you will so um it's kind of an interesting I

um uh thing about Durham is that you know we have a ro commissioner rather than a public works director yeah and so you know usually municipal buildings would fall fall under public works and that um so for example we have everybody's kind of responsible for their home building right rather than having it more centralized well the interim Town manager did meet Calvin the building grounds guy oh he he has that role now oh okay so that just started so we're we're trying to get into a system where we're actually looking at these buildings but Calvin is our town owned

buildings and grounds he takes he takes care of that I see yeah now that's like by the job description right and um and it's true when I was the Public Works director in Gardner I had buildings and grounds on my belt too and that was a lot yeah so yeah yeah you know so yeah I think you know what Joel said that's kind of the challenging part of this is yeah um not having that estimate in front of us and especially coming off the heels of the last request you know was approved but well the money was never spent well Lois did get a estimate to do the Sals and some of that stuff or you know it just wasn't enough yeah it it was $50,000 and that would fix the Sals but there's still other issues with the the the building inside the building but that that $50,000 is that in a reserve no there's only like 31 in the reserve now if you include the 10,000 that she raised but I'm talking about what she raised last year what she

raised last year was 10,000 that was that was in the operating side of the house okay so that goes away if you don't spend it oh okay she can ask for it well she can ask for it again but that that that goes go undes gradu so they have 21,000 yeah they have 21 so this would this would this would bring them up to 50 plus 20 more7 last year so that would that that

would bring them up to $91,000 Total reest does that include the 10,000 from last yeares I'm not c000 I was just curious 21 21 and the 50 well you're saying 50 plus 20 so I hasy right so that's a $70,000 request in this as well I read this and that would be $21,000 in the account so be 91,000 then if the Sills were say it came in at 50 and You' have money fix other

things what says for the most too as part difficult just because of the traffic issue well I'm assuming the Union Church committee is is including that in their discussion because I know in the past we've heard about moving the building to some place where you know to it's a historical building so it's on the register so there's no moving oh really yeah okay good to know I didn't hear that discussion so I don't

that's I think you can uh I know you know you can demolish it but you just have to hold a public hearing I'm pretty sure had told me that because it's on can't maybe it maybe there's been so much talk about this and everything it's really it's hard to follow

the save the Union Church application and um thank you Jerry for offering to reach out to Lois just to let her know give her an update yeah I will okay excellent all right so um I think that's pretty much it um I guess my next question is does

everyone feel like we've answered all the questions um and that we're in a position to move forward with the next step of the process the great excellent so um let's think about the maybe we could take a moment and think about the

next meeting is what's the date on our next meeting November 13 November 13th wow okay November 13th at [Music] 6:30 okay and you're going to need Michelle um a few days to pull it scores maybe we could just work backwards from can I just interject here that's too tight that seems awfully tight so you I mean you can stretch that because we're in no blush yeah I think that was I think that date was more of a placeholder for in case we needed a second meeting yeah yeah take your time yeah so um it would seem to me like we ought to stretch it out yeah okay so we

run into Thanksgiving thank you very much thank you Mark Thanksgiving thank yeah I mean what's a good time frame for you Michelle like do you want to be coating scores over Thanksgiving or you want it before then I not over Thanksgiving I mean on you know Sunday or whatever maybe you're putting up the tree I don't know I have AEK okay so THS Thanksgiving is the

Michelle by something like Monday the really take that long to no but you know people have I mean actually I mean I spent a good number of hours on it a fair number ofs because you know I try to be thoughtful and uh busy life you know kids and kids schedules and all those other things so um I would like to at least have a couple weeks in there always yeah yeah me too yeah okay so we

could do the 20th we could do something like um the 16th the week of Thanksgiving will very tough for me yeah I I kind of think we should meet after Thanksgiving I don't know what do you guys think yeah I mean why why push it okay yeah let's meet after Thanksgiving yeah I think we just want to make sure we get to the scores to Michelle and time that she can comfortably coate them and she's going to also send out the the template exactly yeah yeah get it to

22nd and in her format in her Excel spreadsheet if you're doing on yours yeah I don't mind Plug and Play after I'm done so if you want to send us the form okay give us the options okay so the week after Thanksgiving Monday Tuesday will be t for me Wednesday's out for somebody so would Thursday the 30th work Thursday the 30th

let me check my to all all right let's get it out there get it on the calendar 30th yeah and by the way thanks for getting tonight's meeting noticed six what do you think Jill it'll be tight but I can do six I made it okay I just have a slice of pizza with me screaming over

so uh anyone have a motion oh perfect no I was gonna say motion to close the meeting second all right very good and all those in great