TranscriptSelect Board Meeting ~ March 24, 2026

Live in the living colors. All right. I have called order here the March 24th meeting of the Durham Select Board at 6:30. We have a quorum and we will begin at 6:30 here with the Pledge of Allegiance. United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. All right. Any amendments to the agenda? Uh

right order here. No, I don't see anything. Any other amendment Any amendments to the agenda? All right, seeing none. Any public comment? Where do I have a motion to approve the draft Select Board meeting minutes from the March 10th? So moved. Give it to John. I'll second. I'll second. All right, I'll give it to Rebecca. Any questions? Any discussion? All in favor? Any opposition? Seeing none, that passes unanimously. All right, old business. So, we um had a question about elected committee member appointment and discussion. So, the budget committee has a vacancy and people have asked if it's something that the Select Board is going to fill. Uh Check with town legal counsel and while the Select Board is legally required to fill roles on the School Board and legally required to fill roles on the Select Board, all other boards and committees are at the the will of the Select Board as to whether they want to

choose them or not. So, there's it's it's really dealer's choice. And so, I want to open up the floor for discussion as to see if it's how we feel about um processing that request here in Durham. I I personally don't think it's appropriate for us to fill that slot. Um it is a town-elected position. Just like John, you were elected by the people of Durham. The Budget Committee people, they are elected by the people of Durham. That's not our way. I I don't feel comfortable with that. Okay. Any other? Josh. I mean, I I'm kind of torn. I kind of I I agree that we're appointing somebody that's going to review our work. But at the same time, I think more voices from the public is important. For me, though, it comes down to timing. And frankly, uh I think we would have to do what we've done in the past, which is put out a call for um we call them applications. Uh and uh and then and vote on it. So,

we wouldn't even I mean, best case scenario, we'd be looking at it at our next meeting. Um Is that enough fact 2 weeks though? 2 weeks is the minimum usually. Yeah. Uh and so, that's pushing it. So, I you know, I'll I'll be honest, the thought of appointing somebody to that to to the Budget Committee never crossed my mind until I think someone raised it to me after our last meeting. Um and I think I think the day of is when I first someone first mentioned it and you know, the first real conversation I had was after the meeting. And uh um I I think I think the timing is just off on the on it now. But otherwise, I think in the future, it's something that we need to consider doing when a vacancy opens. There um apologies, there are eight people currently on the Budget Committee. Yes. Right now? Okay. That's That's fine. I don't I mean, it's not like the situation of the school budget. I know those are

different rules. School Board we're required to. Yeah. By law. Right. And so, that's a different situation altogether. But like and for the Select Board for instance, that's a different situation altogether. But I mean, there are eight positions already. There's no I personally don't see an immediate need to fill it. Um I think eight people, that's plenty. Jim, any thoughts? Is this the position vacated vacated vacated by John? Yeah. Right. Um so, if it's not filled, we are left with eight folks on the committee, all experienced people that have been on the committee for some time. I don't know if there's an applicant or a person of interest that has some financial background that I don't know that that Go ahead. I'm sorry. I'll let you finish. But I'm I'm good with the position of having the Select Board stay clear of that at the moment. It feels weird. Um and just a question, we would have it

go up for election with the election. Yeah, it would be filled at the nearest municipal election. Yeah, that would happen in June, so that's not a big deal. They can elect somebody and yeah. That makes Yeah, that makes more sense. John? Not surprisingly, I disagree. Uh it is this We're not setting a precedent. When early on in my select or excuse me, budget committee time, there were two appointed members. And it's probably 4 years ago, something like that, but Mark Blake and Ron Stinson. So, it's been done before. Um and probably a minor point, but uh at one point in time, 3 or 4 years ago, we tried to reduce the town tried to reduce select board tried to reduce the size of the budget committee, and the town turned them down rather overwhelmingly. Um and I guess that we've had an applicant for 3, 4 months, I would think, since at least the beginning of the year. There has been somebody who put their paperwork on

it, so But did we call Sorry to interrupt you. Do we call for Well, it's been happy 6 months, so you know, there was plenty of opportunity for those who wanted to Well, we didn't put out a call for applications. I don't know if we did. I don't No, we didn't. We would need We would She's shaking her head. The lord The lordess of all knowledge is shaking her head. So, I don't see that we're out anything if we do it. We've had a precedent for doing it before. Uh um uh um uh um uh um uh um uh um uh um uh um uh um uh um uh um uh um uh um uh um uh um uh um uh um uh um uh um uh um uh um uh um uh um uh um uh um uh um uh uh um um not speaking to a particular person, but everybody brings something to that uh that budget committee, so that's my thought. Uh my my thought on it is that the budget committee likes to think of themselves as a check and balance to the select board. And so, the idea of us pointing people

to the budget committee to be our own check and balance seems counterintuitive. Whereas right now, that check and balance is elected by the legislative body, which is the the the town voters. And so, I'm concerned that if we put it out for applicants, and then we get applicants, it's then well, you're picking someone that you know is going to agree with you on the select board or you're picking someone to just get an extra vote from the select board on the budget committee. And so, with that always being a an issue, I would be more inclined to keep it open and let it be filled at the next municipal election, personally.

with that, 100%. Yeah. And the good thing about doing that, too, is the applicants get a chance to communicate their background and skill set to the residents, and the residents can choose, you know, um who the right person is. Same thing. Mhm. Cut. Done. Josh, sorry. Uh two things. I think when the when the select board raised the issue of lowering the number of people on the budget committee, my recollection, correct me if I'm wrong, was it because it was because of the number of the applications we were getting. I think there's two vacancies. Right, we were having trouble filling uh the vacancies. Um I mean, and and I agree with you, John. I have no issue appointing. I think that's part of our role on on on the select board. My issue is timing. Um Uh so, for now, I mean I I mean frankly, if this had been raised, you know, when you were elected, I can't remember when that was anymore. It seems like

yesterday. November. Yeah. Uh I mean, I think I think if we had if it had been raised then, I think that would be appropriate time to do it. I think now in the middle of budget season, um Mhm. I I just I'm not I'm not sure, but but I think in the future, I I think we should it's something that we should be doing, you know, as soon as a vacancy opens is we should be putting out a call for applications. And I know that we've had one person express an interest doing it, but I do think we need to be consistent uh and and put out applications.

fair to have somebody to sort of jump in in the middle of budget season. And that's I mean, that's that's we're we're going over the budget, you know, budget committee members are here. Uh that's my personal thought, but I I agree. I I think in the future, it's something that needs to be done immediately.

for the evening then? Cuz uh what I'm seeing is not accepting not We're choosing not to appoint. I make a motion to vote. Okay, what's your motion? I vote to not accept it. Well, vote to not to leave the position vacant.

position vacant until people can uh To be filled at the next municipal election. Correct. Thank you for the wording. All right, so motion from Rebecca. Do I have a second? A second. Okay, any additional questions or discussion? Yeah, I will say I politely just feel that this isn't our role. If if this if the community is intended for this board to be serving as a check and balance to us, I don't want to take that away from them by opening it up and then potentially getting accused of picking someone to be a select board favorite or something like that. So, I want to leave this up to the legislative body um since we're lacking any sort of uh charter for the organization and stuff like that. Um I just feel like it's best to leave it up to the voters, which is what we've which since I've been here is what we've done with this this sort of role. So, that's just my two cents, but any other discussion?

All in favor? Any opposition? 4 1. Did you get that, Jessica? Perfect. All right, next business order of business page, you throw contract. we've got here the great power and responsibility of that picking bag colors, I guess. Um Jerry, is there anything you want to add about the pastry throw contract? Uh no, I just need authorization to authorize action to get the jetsam and the selling. Yeah. Today's date will be I had a question about it. So, because we've had um broached the subject about having advertisements on it, are we able mid cuz I didn't see anything in the contract. Are we able mid-contract to change the logo or add a logo to the

bag? Um If there's the logo or the advertising I I don't know, and I think you should have more discussion about that. If we were to decide Right, that So, I don't I can't answer that. I don't I've never seen an Yeah, I haven't I I was just kind of flippantly making the suggestion, but I think if we wanted to discuss that more, we'd also have to get some feedback from town legal counsel just about appropriateness of

Of course. I just I wanted to make sure because I I didn't read in the contract about changing the like the logo is not incorporated into it, so I assume that that's okay. I don't want to assume, but I would assume that that's okay to change mid-my-through. Like we could change that. Yeah, I I think that if we decide to go that route, if that's even an option, we'd be talking about kicking that in in follow in the 2028 budget. Yeah. Um just cuz uh the pastry throw guys' reaction was like, "Haven't heard of that. I guess you could put anything you want on there." And think that there's more discussion to be had there. Yeah. Yeah, cuz they have the bag printed with the logo and artwork. Custom program information, but doesn't say anything about mid-my-through. So, I I was just asking. Um And what I'm seeing in front of you, Jerry, is we've got purple bags for the small bag, and then yellow Well, no,

they're just I think they can be the same color. At least they are in Dunstable where I buy mine. Okay. Well, one thing about I have a couple of questions. Has the attorney looked at the contract? Yes. need to Uh and then the other one, um there was no comment in there and I probably know this answer, but there's nothing about them doing any quality control. You know, we talked once about maybe them doing one or two uh looks at it, but I didn't see that in the contract anywhere. And I don't want to fool around with the contract. I mean, we got to get going on this sucker, but just as a note, there's nothing about that in there. And then last but not least, while you're thinking about it, um this is more of a comment than anything else. There is an inflationary clause with this, which I you know, it's not a great shock or surprise, but you know, a year from now, it may not be $3. It may be $3.03 or

whatever the CPI is. I think Jerry actually did help negotiate that inflationary cost down, too, right? Well, no, they had the CPI index, and then they added 3%, and I called them up and said, "You know, I'm okay with the CPI index, but 3% on top of that, think you could like get rid of that." And they said, "Sure." Which is I mean, that's 3% annually, which is savings there, but that's Yeah.

That was just a comment so the people watching at home will know that next year it could be $3.09, so uh uh uh uh Um I just know that we've had a number of residents concerned about the quality of the bag and how thick they are and whether that works, so I went and got some bags. Not None that These are just normal bags that we use, but this is a con- like a contractor bag. I don't know what 32 gallon or whatever, but it's 2 mil, and it's pretty good. A Costco bag, which my daughter gave me, I never use these before, and I noticed a difference from the bags I normally use and I'm like, "Wow, these are good." This is a 2 mil bag. And this is one that we just put in our household's garbage can in the kitchen. Then there is um These are 0.8 mil, and these are very thin. If you're really trying to shove a bunch in there to get it in one bin, this 0.8 is not very good. I don't have an example of a 1.5, and

this is uh like 0.7 seven something. I don't know. This is a smaller like in a bathroom bag very Um so I don't you guys looked at a 1.5 mil. Do you think right? Did someone Um looked at that. I believe I I looked at Brunswick and it was it was somewhere around right here. Yeah. And so it was it was thicker than the bags that I currently

Okay. I mean I I just you know that was a big concern that I was seeing on social media about people's you know experience with uh having these bags for their town and um I just want to make sure that the 1.5 is adequate across the board.

Yeah. Yeah and just for the record so uh my friend in Brunswick who uses the 1.5 bags does have a cat with cat litter and she says it doesn't it hasn't broken with the litter. I don't know how I I now come to think of it I didn't ask her how many how much she puts into it or like you know weight of it but I know that that was an issue of with some residents for cat litter because that's that's a primary primarily a very heavy thing to put into a bag but she said it has not broken. Jerry do you have in the Brunswick area is it 1.5? No, do you know if the bag

know. I just buy them at my discretion. And you have any concerns with the quality of your bags that you use in Brunswick? Nope. Okay. I've been using 5.5 6 years now. Mhm. I think that's it. All right, that's what she said. Yeah. Any other questions on the contract? Good point though John. I think that everything isn't impacted by inflation. I'm just happy that we've taken that 3% on top of the inflation rider off. Um all things considered I like blaze orange bags personally. They stick out and I can use them as a makeshift hunting vest if I need to. Yours Vermithrax is an orange. Do they? Yeah. That's what I said. I think big orange and blue are not options maybe. Yeah. So we can go with the We had a town staffer likes purple. Yeah. I think purple

It stands out and I think that from the front of the truck they can look back and see it. Yeah. What? It's like the one color I didn't want. Oh, oh boy. Isn't trash bag Yeah. It's going in the trash can man. That reminds me of the bags I used to buy that I didn't like the smell of. Oh, the lavender smell.

Yes. Thank you. Yeah, we'll have to get you an air freshener then. It's They're not going to pick yours up anyway. They're not going to do it so these have a scent. Are they actually that was a question we had too. It's one option. Are they unscented? Yeah, the one I sniffed today was unscented. We I mean I I don't know. No, no, I think we want unscented. No, those make me sneeze. They make people sick. Yeah, but there's no good No, it just reminded me of that. Well

okay if you guys want to leave fine. Purple's fine if I'm not going to get my free hunting vest like I would purple. the everyone else? I make a motion All right, John's got to be soft. the contract with purple bags. All right. I'll second that. Much to Josh's chagrin. Do we have any other questions or or comments? All in favor. Any opposition? Seeing none, that passes. Just a reminder anyone watching at home this isn't going to start until April or sorry August 1st or the first week of August for the trash bags. So I will repeat that. First week of August.

go. Um but we will make sure that the trash bags are available ahead of time. All right, where did my agenda go here? Oh, yeah we didn't talk about the art. Oh. I think that for me the Durham seal is sufficient for the for the logo on there. Yeah.

put out there. All righty. Um continuing through old business we are to the budget review. So last meeting was a bit of a marathon meeting for those who attended and watched that watched at home. I appreciate everyone who did did make it. But at the same time last meeting was really serving as an opportunity just for to get the budget put into public record so people could access it and have it out there and the intent was a super super high level review. So the way we're going to do budget review this year is the select board is going to go through section by section tonight. Um we're going to review it, get feedback from department heads, get feedback from town manager. We can ask all the questions we want. Next meeting uh two members the the chair and the vice chair of the budget committee will also be in attendance to ask questions on facts and figures and stuff like that. And next meeting is when the

select board will make our official finalization of the first draft of the budget and then send it to the budget committee to get their review of it, input. It'll come back to us. We'll get another look at it before it becomes warrant language. So does everyone understand that timeline? So the hope tonight um and I'm open for discussion as to how people would like to go through it but the plan tonight would be go section by section and uh that's where we can ask questions. Generally you know people are we're asking questions when we see something go up or something go down. Um

and so this is a good chance cuz we have Mark here as well who is we've hired as the town accountant. We have both of our department heads and we have our um town manager here. So any questions before we get started? Okay, Jerry is there anything you wanted to go over to kick us off? Uh do you you know it's just kind of like the format. Do you want to go through capital again are you good with that or Um how do folks feel? Do we want to go through capital? In a nutshell I have a quick question. I'm sorry. Would are you going to include the the staff the the two department heads? Yeah, they're here. Yeah, maybe it's I can say if we don't need them we send them home. No, no, they can stay. Yeah, in case we have any questions, yeah. Sorry guys.

home one of us is going to have a question that needs to be answered anyways. So. Come on medical. So yeah. As we're getting started this summary I Jerry and the staff and whomever that the summary analysis highlights is excellent.

Yeah, really I really think that was a helpful way of looking at it um at least for me. And I know that people in the community have already been referencing it which is I think great rather than making people dig through spreadsheets and stuff like that. That's always there for people but this is a good good summary and shows the overall you know nuts and bolts. So Hopefully it just clears up some misconceptions on mill rates, evaluations and that sort of thing. Yeah. And just reminder to everybody this is a 12-month budget. We're done with the 18-month 18-month budget that's behind us. This is a 12-month so

Jerry I'll let you get started here. Yeah. So I want to just look at the public works capital cuz I think there's some things in there I have to ask and point out and kind of go over that. Um cuz we added some infrastructure projects. It wasn't just equipment totally. Previous years it was really just equipment. So we got a bridge on Mill Pond Road that needs some attention. Um so we have a placeholder in there 100,000. That's a must. Do I don't know if anyone will be able to read down there. Um but you might want to take a look at that. And it may need some guardrails but um we might be able to get away with Jersey barriers on each side but uh I think Calvin had reached out to E.J. Prescott to kind of get a quote on what it's going to do to fix that. What what's going on is a lot of water rushes through not just through the culvert but in between the logs and stuff so it erodes it. So Um

that's in there. Is it on Mill Pond Road? Yeah, that little dead end. Yeah. So when this says I'm assuming that's medium priority it's really high priority. Yeah, yeah they that that they're all say that. Yeah, that's it should yeah. That's the last. And that and that 100,000 will go away when once we do it cuz that'll happen life on like 10 years so Mhm. where your equipment you're always going to be replacing every year so And then I think it's culverts that he wants to uh replace on Pass Brook and Collins Way. Um well he can talk talk about that in the New Gloucester Road. Um So that that's really for 2028 2029 but at least we can start tucking away a little bit of money. Those are those are pretty large culverts. Yeah. So that's the only thing really different in there than it's been in there in the past. Okay. Yeah. Um if you look at the back side of it it just shows you what we've got to fund in

that reserve account each year. So each year for public works reserve it's in 2027 it's 250 and then each year it gets a little bit more. And that black line you know is what you have you know amounts to be raised and orange line is what you've got for a balance, okay? So, I'm What's really nice about this graph is it just shows us real steady increase in what we're raising, but then the orange line shows you what you have in there to be able to purchase this these things. Which is better than borrowing the money because then you're spending the interest.

There's really no value to the town to give the banks your money in interest. Yeah. Yeah, pay me now, pay me later type stuff. So, that's really the only thing that's really for last year. Uh fire department is uh pretty much the same as it was last year other than I think the amount went down uh from last year. But again, the master graph kind of shows you where we're at and the funding level was pretty steady. So, that's how you read that. Mhm. But the plan is to find a way. Mhm. So, as things come up, you know, we look at this every year, you know, things change like the the price of a plow truck a couple years ago was not the same as what we're paying today. So, you have to keep an eye on those sort of things. So, that's kind of our game plan. So, I think I believe the whole capital reserves account that we're funding out of this budget is 395,000. That's what I'm looking at in the book. That's your transfer transfer

as public line in the budget. Well, you I'll show you that when I get to it. You're going to need it at some point. Mhm. Any questions on capital um reserves? Calvin, you got anything to add about it? yours? Uh if you're looking at the fire department under type, you know, they all say purchase. Uh half of those are actually rehab. So, the same thing we did to the ladder when you start seeing the reduced amounts, we're rehabbing half our trucks. So, they're slightly older, but low mileage, good working condition, so rehabbing makes sense for us. I mean, buying a million-dollar truck does not make sense.

Right. Pennies on the dollar does. So, even though it says purchase, it's purchasing rehab, not new. Mhm. It's a good point. There's no whatever program we're using to do this. I mean, maybe we should include that as a type for just for clarity for Yeah, that could be helpful. Cuz that is helpful to know that.

Yep. Yeah. Well, one thing I think I asked last time, too, you know, I can see I see rescue boat 2045. We were able to secure grant funding for that this time around, so we hope and especially in the um public safety side of things, you know, not as much grant opportunities for public works. Sorry, Calvin. Uh but we hope to pursue grants to not have to make some of these purchases should they become available, but we still want to plan for them because we don't want to just go on hope and then get to a situation where we didn't plan for it. So, um I just wanted to note that cuz I know that there was some great outreach on the purchase of the rescue boat being grant funded and people might say, "Why is it in here if we can get a grant for it?" It's those aren't guaranteed, so I I have a couple questions about the buildings. Mhm. Um we spent a lot of time over the last year or so talking about the rec center.

Mhm. Uh and I'm noticing the only improvements Mhm. are are slated for 2040. Yeah. Is that I mean, we talked about how um this past winter. Um there's lights that people have been asking for and I think I mean, that parking lot's full tonight. I don't know if it's everybody here what's but it's full tonight. Um

but addressed, but I think those are things that I don't see those sort of listed here and so I question should they be? But also, you know, I know we're not going to use this to build a new town hall if and when that comes. But it seems to me we've spent a lot of time talking about the space there. And um

general repairs I think it's 20,000 in 2030 and again in 2040. I mean, is it is it time we start talking and and again, I know it doesn't go in here, but I this is this made me think of this discussion, you know, are there small things we could do to make the town office more user-friendly to not only the citizens but also staff because there's a lack of room. Um and should we be putting money aside to

uh to to you know, we saw plans to to to get plans drawn up and get the cost so we can share that and the the citizens can decide is this something that's important for us? Um and so again, not necessarily a discussion for tonight, but it it raised those questions that I thought this was the appropriate time to bring it up. Uh because I think it's important uh you know, I I had a conversation with somebody tonight about the budget and and things and and uh one of the things that they said and they don't live in Durham and they don't live in Maine anymore. Uh they said well, you have to keep the staff happy because they're they're the most important thing you have you got. Uh and and I think the town office needs to be addressed in some way. And does that mean a new building or does that mean there's a way to make it more user-friendly for for everybody? Uh and so

I can speak to the two items you mentioned. The light is in the works with CMP and putting a light on the pole up here that will eliminate the parking lot at Eureka. I don't know why it's not done yet, but I will check with them again. They said it's on the list to get done. What is the cost I'm sorry to interrupt. What's the cost to the town for that? Uh just the monthly It's just going to be a maintenance. It's a small small Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And the heating system uh I had uh I had the Northeast Heat Pumps come out and evaluate the heat pumps to see what was happening there and they uh informed me that those are actually 36,000 BTU industrial-sized heat pumps. They said they don't they don't even sell them that big, so they said there's no way that those won't heat that building. So, we adjusted the louvers, made a few adjustments and uh what was happening was the heat was blowing down because the louvers were

down thinking well, it will go down cuz heat rises. Well, what it was doing is it was going down and then coming back up in front of the unit and the unit was thinking it was up to temperature and shutting off even though it was cold in the middle of the room, so it was cycling. And so we put the louvers straight out and within a few minutes we noticed a difference and he said you won't have any any more problems. That was it? That was it. Yeah. It was just the way the adjustment of the louvers was was Maybe that's what's wrong with my house, okay. So, because it was just cycling, it was thinking it was up to temperature, so we have purchased a uh a thermostat to go in the middle of the room that will program back to the unit so that they'll actually be getting the temperature from the center of the room. So, that problem is solved. Yeah, thank you. I I knew you had done that. I didn't realize it had solved

Yeah. And I'm I'm really happy about the light cuz that's a concern that we've got. My experience with CMP is they they do things on their own schedule. They're I was pretty sure it will be done before next fall when we need it night again. Right now, we're fortunately there's still daylight.

Mhm. Yeah. Um to your point, Josh, about long-term planning for the building itself and for the town hall, I think that that's an important discussion. Um I don't know if it's one that has a fiscal note for for this budget cycle, but I think it's one we need to hop on starting next year or I should say starting after this budget uh season after the town meeting because we do have the downtown planning input that we received and we've got some other grant opportunities there. Um I just learned through um like congressional office for second congressional district, there's opportunities to make requests to federal spending packages to get your town hall built for you. Like and we reached out to GPCOG to talk about that. So, there's some opportunities there that I think we need to fully explore before attaching a fiscal note. No, I But it's totally I just think it's something we need to be think Yeah, I I think it's something we

need to plan for because I think, you know, the town's growing like it or not uh and we need to you know, we need to provide the services and if they're not happy if Calvin's not happy in his office and if Chief's not happy here, the services rendered go down and we don't we don't want that. And cuz right now, you know, they've kind of spoiled us I think and um Good thing we need to stop probably kicking down the road is the gazebo bandstand. You know, we we need to Yeah, we have 30,000 allocated for that. The big challenge there is I think that there's a difference in opinion on the last conversation that like we have budgeted to replace it and other people say it shouldn't be replaced, it should be restored. And I want to pick that up very quickly after we get through budget, but we already have 30,000. Yeah, it's not a good year, but it's a part of that whole conference. We need to do something.

Yeah, there's there's money there. It's just a difference of opinion on how to spend it. So, we we can dive we can dive into that. Uh I'd like to the actually from someone from the historic society reached out a couple weeks ago and I had a conversation with him saying, "We're going to get it on the agenda here pretty quickly right after the budget stuff." So, Another question I have to T's point about rebuilding stuff, renovating, whatever you want to call it. We're budgeting for a full replacement. Is that correct? Or are we the prices that are on the fire trucks? Is that for it's going to cost you whatever number to rebuild the It's only I just circled them and to T's point, we'll we'll fix it. Uh the second line that's the ambulance, the 2030, that would be a new purchase. That's a a brand new purchase price. And then all the way down we see a Pierce Saber Pumper in 2044. That's currently a new purchase.

Everything else is pretty much rehabing, refurbing, if you will. The ladder truck? Or you that'll be a used ladder truck. And the money that's in there to for Jerry, whatever, like the pumper in 2029, that is a rebuild the 150k would rebuild that.

Yes. Yep. And so all those monies are rebuild monies except for the two Except those two for the most part, right? Real quick here, that current year in the future year, that we're budget we're budgeting for the future year column, correct? So, this is a and I'll let Mark do this is a 10-year plan, right? We all have a 10-year plan. So, it's you add up all that and divide by 10 and that's what we put away every year specifically for the fire department. Uh that went down this year. So, it used to be 180 to to accomplish our goal in 10 years and now it's down to 140 a year. So, 40,000 savings this year alone. Uh uh certainly Mark I think can either attest or answer any other questions about 10-year plans. But we're saving to re other than those two, we're saving to rebuild, right? That savings is already there. Correct. Yep. Yeah, and and what I'm getting at John, is that second column on the far

right, that's what we're budgeting for it. The the current year is what it costs right now. Then we have an estimated inflation rate of 3%. And then that depending on the year in which we are bud- planning to replace that, that 3% is added on Yep. for every one of those years. So, like the $150,000 purchase currently is being budgeted for $159,000. Whereas like when we look at that big ticket Pierce Saber Pumper, it's 900,000 now. Anticipate that in 2044 that'll be 1.48

or 1.49 million. Yeah. different, right? That's 2042. This is 2030. truck goes up to 2055. It's just a it's just a helps spread those costs though. Yeah. Do you have a question about your comment about the gazebo? You said you had $30,000 in there. Uh I thought that there was 30,000 last year allocated on a warrant article for to to be used for a gazebo repairs.

Okay. I think that was asked to be pulled out of the building the building reserves to to earmark that. Okay. We'll have to add it for this warrant. Yeah. It needs to be in this warrant article properly then. were looking at Kelvin Shear line, the mobile traffic control lights are the lights when you're doing construction and there's Um but we don't have anything in here or maybe we have a solid plan ahead if we're going to purchase any more radar type signs for the speed problem. I think we said we have two that you locate based on resident feedback or what you're hearing. And our plan is to stay with two. We don't think we need to do anything different. I'm applying for a grant to get a third one. Okay.

Well, but I think I can make that work. We'll just move them around as needed. Thank you for that. I just wanted to get that on record. I will say I really like seeing the automated um lights in there cuz even though I do appreciate getting the wave to the people holding the signs, if we can do more with less and get those people working in other positions while we're having the the lights take care of that, I think that increases efficiency, which is good. Well, you're you're short of the four guys to do a job and you lose half your crew to hold a flag and you Yeah. one guy driving a truck and one holding it. Yeah. It's not very productive. No. I I appreciate that. Find it We're trying to find efficiencies where we can and I think that's a good example of it. Any other questions on capital before we start getting into the budget itself or the other elements of the budget? I just think you guys you thought this

out really well. I appreciate it. Yes, thank you for that. Okay, so do you want to when we did the summary in the overview last time, do you want to go through that again or you want to dive right into the I don't feel the need to go through it again. Do other people want to go through the summary again or are we okay diving into the the meat of the budget?

when we get to that line. Yeah, okay. But I will first go over the revenue. So, we're estimating that revenues will be up 15.3%. Okay? So, then explain what the revenue Yeah. Page seven of 12. Okay. But I just want to point out that you have a little marker in there. That's your pay as you throw revenue. That's at the 125. That literally is a dart. Okay, so the

the waste zero people said we get about 150,000 in a full year. We're starting a month later. And I don't know how much full compliance we'll have in that year. So, this is really a guess. You know, if you if you think you're better at guessing, you can put whatever number you like in there cuz I really I I don't know what to put in there on the map. Yeah, I mean I'm torn on these things because when it comes to revenue I like to try to be really conservative with our estimate because I'd rather see us underestimate revenue and have a surplus than overestimate knowing that our surplus goes into fund balance, which we are then rolling every year right into the next year's budget. So, it's not like a lose it or use it type scenario. Um but at the same time I don't love the idea of I'm being super conservative on that estimate, su- com- completely underestimating uh revenue and then having a huge surplus.

So, I'm I don't know what other folks' thoughts are. This you know, reduces the estimate from 154,000 to 125,000. Do people want to see that brought down to 100,000 or or a different number? biggest issue I had and you know, for me, you know, I've already started talking to my wife and kid about, you know, how we're going to do better. Um

uh I'm I'm on this one, I'm thinking we should go to 100,000. I just I I I don't know. I mean I'm open to it. I our last meeting were very positive about it. But I have no idea if they're a good representation of of the community as a whole. Yeah. Uh and so I think I think going lower I you know, Jerry, I understand it's a guess and I you're basically asking us if we want to second guess you. Uh and and uh 99% of the time I would tell you no. This is one time where I might say I think it's better to go low. See I just the point I'm trying to make is we don't have any data to go on. So, so real quick

there's 1,600 households in Durham. And we're at if we were to average one bag a piece, one small bag a piece. So, $1.80 a week times 52 gives you $93.60 a year per household if they're throwing away one trash bag a week. That works out to 147,000 total for the 100 and 1,600 households in town. If people are throwing out a 33-gallon trash bag that brings the number up to like 250. Um and so I think that that 150 is a rough estimate of one tall kitchen bag per household per week assuming full compliance. Um that's where I think that number comes from. And we just can decide from there. Mark, I saw you had something you wanted to

Yeah, no, I was going to make the same calculation. Yeah. I Well, I have two thoughts about it. One is I think a 150 something was the contractor's estimate. Mhm. So, I'm okay with that. But the other thing is that having watched trash go out last week I think by September, you know, there will will no trash in this town. It's all going out right now. Yeah. Uh with the free bag. Uh So, I don't know how many bags are going to be needed, but you know, you all drove past the trash piles the last Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday. I'd go with the 150 cuz I just don't want to tax people. If we were comfortable with 150, or I am, then I would go with that. Although I Well, the we do have to remember we're only collecting bags for 11 months, not 12 months, because of the the the free months, so 125 then, or 130? I don't want to go down cuz that's another 25, 30,000 worth of tax for. Yeah. I I I agree. I'm just

I guess the compliance issue is since, you know, you know, we had tags, and you got 26 free ones, and people are still cutting them in half, selling them. Uh but Yeah, I mean, I I don't know I I I personally don't know that we're going to have that much cheating. There's always some cheating because what the hell, you know, let's beat the man. And uh but I I I think 120 or 130 I'm good with. Yeah, I agree with John. I think that there's going to be like an eighth or maximum of a quarter of the community won't be in compliance, maybe. I don't I mean, it's it's hard to

Well, the sorry, the inter- the waste zero guy said that they find most it's pretty high compliance even without an enforcement. of a lot of people also probably going to a private trash collector, too, that's revenue that we won't necessarily see with it. So, taking that into consideration, I I think the 125 is conservative. Um It's I mean, it's a shot in the dark, and yeah, I I agree with John. I think it's it's fine. All right. I'm also fine with the 125. I'm good with it then. It's a good guess, Jerry. I think

I make two I don't, but a household makes two bags a day five days a week, so I'm going to be covering at least a good portion of this right now, so So, Doc, you'll be paying our taxes, that's right. Did you want me to read out each category of Okay, so on excise taxes, we're estimating that's going to go up 12.1%. Sorry, can you give us the line number? Well, it's it's on page six six of 20.

Yep. Six of the top of Oh, there we are, perfect. Okay, sorry. Yeah, yeah. It's a combination of a bunch of lines. Yeah, yeah, so page six. You guys didn't know where we were during the Sorry. All right, and then uh permits and fees we're estimating 86.5% increase there. And I'm sorry to interrupt you. Just to be clear, this is funding sources, so It's revenue. Right, so just for people listening at home. And I got another one estimating 8.5% increase.

54.2%. From the Yeah. Can we go back to state revenue, or maybe we're not there yet? And and revenue sharing is that what happened to, you know, what happened to that, I guess? The state just decided intergovernmental I'm going to need the government to pay

under intergovernmental too far? No, we you were there. Um we have it budgeted at a 1.7% increase. But that part then But yeah, but I mean, the question is it 2 years ago 680, now it's six 13. Mhm. This country is often state revenue sharing page. No, I got it, but I mean, do we know why? Is the state just said they don't like Durham or evaluation

and we stop, so we get less. Yeah. It it's to subsidize smaller communities, and so if we're getting a higher valuation, the subsidy from the state is decreasing. Is that an accurate assessment? As your if your valuation outpaces other communities' valuations, it's basically how it comes down to it. Yeah. You You guys aren't getting what they call revenue sharing number two anymore because your mill rate is

higher than the amount which is lower. The The state establishes a a mill rate. There's a tier system for how much you get. Everybody gets Everybody gets revenue sharing one, and it's based off of your um It's based off of your valuation and basically a per capita calculation uh within the town. So, how many people do you have in the town, and what's your valuation? Um And then there's revenue sharing two where the state establishes a a mill rate, and I believe if it's very the over or under, you don't get. But I can't remember which way it is, but you guys are on the wrong side of it. Meaning, if your mill rate is over or under the state's average mill rate. Yeah, so we get the tier one. That's all, right. That's it. Yeah. All those million dollar houses. Well, I was just going to say, so the most expensive house that was built in Androscoggin County was right here in Durham. Yeah. So, I'm trying to so when the valuation

that the county gets with all these towns in Androscoggin County, if Durham's going to keep building million dollar houses, um it's going to be interesting to see what these numbers look like as they come in each year. I'm just letting you know. I mean, we We have to have that discussion when we get to the valuation we're using to determine the mill rate, too. I mean, we're trying we're using last year's, but I'll hold on to that till we till we get there. But But I'm thinking vision down the road as you keep doing it, these numbers will change, too. Cuz you don't have any other kind of revenue sources other than residential If we're dropping you know, multi-house subdivisions, and they're all selling for a million dollars, you're picking up 13 million valuation in one I'm not really saying that just from budget to budget. I mean, four, five, six years down the road. Well, then we'll get changes when we do

the reval. Did I understand the homestead exemption because we're at because we haven't had a revaluation for a while, we're the state knocked us down to 54%. Am I right? Well, that's what your valuation is at your certified ratios are now 57%, so on and that, so you're only getting 57% of your homestead exemption. Yeah, and then there's a reimbursement from the state for homestead exemption. Not doing a revaluation for 15 years just punishes you. And basically this I was doing some There's a lot of discussions right now cuz there's a tax tax task force in Augusta, and I'm also on one for GPCOG. This is a pretty common issue that a lot of municipalities have run into, and um is delaying their revaluation for so long that people are starting to realize like I'm only getting 60, 55, 54% of the homestead um

exemption. And there's a lot of talk also about trying to push to get that homestead exemption increased, which makes it even more important to get that revaluation. Cuz if that goes from 25,000 to 30,000, people are going to want the full 30,000. So, I'm included, you know. And then I'll give Mr. Purinton, who's in the audience, great credit for saying we need to figure out how to, you know, do we do it again, some kind of mini revaluation in 5 years, or So, we get right on the schedule as soon as we finish it cuz of how long it takes them to book out. All right, my last question is, and this just may be an old wives' tale, or I misunderstood the conversation. And this is These are all new guy questions, so thank you for bearing with me. Um We have CMP, my house, whatever, has a value has a valuation. And does the fact that we haven't had a revaluation have any input on that? So, let's just say CMP's $10 million

of value in this property. What are we allowed to What are we using to figure the tax on that? Is it $10 million that It's the same. You only get 57%, so it's across the board. Including like when CMP's owned right of way and stuff like that. So, yeah, it's all It's like 10 or 11. It's a big It's by far and away the biggest land owner. So, if my house is $100,000, we're we're only able to tax against 54,000. Am I saying that pretty close?

No, no, the way your homestead exemption works is when you when you calculate your property tax, you subtract $25,000 from the valuation if you're at 100%. I'm not I'm sorry, I'm not talking about homestead. I'm talking about just the CMP's is 10 It's common knowledge what it's $10 million bucks. So, what when we try to when we throw that in the valuation that we write our taxes on, is it $10 million bucks, or is it 545.4

assessor has Right. This is why This is why you need to do a revaluation because over time, the the um competitiveness between neighbors gets out of whack, right? Um so, the longer you go, the more you know, you may be paying more than your fair share than your neighbor based off of the just value of And CMP is certainly paying less than their fair share in your example if they're Yeah, but I get I guess my point is for everybody else On average, it comes out to 54%.

Yeah, so the the fact that we we had $10 million of of increased real estate this year, that's not only five 5.5 4.5 What is 5.5 valuation. Valuation that we we get taxed against. So, it's a major It's more than just homestead, is what I'm trying to say. That you know, that the bigger impact is really the fact that our our tax base value isn't as big as it looks like. Well, when the reevaluation goes in, it will likely be much higher.

Yeah. And so, we'll now be dividing the total expenses by a much bigger number. So, you'll see a mill rate decrease. Yeah, no, I I I got that. And then it shifts the burden to So, the million-dollar house is now being charged taxes at a million-dollar valuation as opposed to the $300,000 house being brought down, you know. Okay, that that answered my question cuz there was someone who doubted that. Yeah. Old wives get a lot of that wrapped with those tales.

I didn't believe that. Sorry. I didn't mean to drag this out. Thank you. No, this is this is literally where we ask the questions and have the conversation, so I think it's a good point to be made. Yeah, so then your other revenues, those are just kind of like off-the-wall revenues, like private donations or miscellaneous revenue. Those are You know, they're You never know when they're going to come in and what they're going to be. Um so, we're we went down on that minus 4.8, so a total of 15.3 is what we're estimating as far as revenue changes. All right?

Yeah. So, funding requirements for all the, you know, So, real quick, before we move on to the next page, does anyone have any questions about revenue sources? don't think of a question now, we're going to talk about this again next meeting, so feel free to ponder it and come up with questions if you have more.

question. Um do the code enforcement fees include penalty fees or just the um permits? What do you mean by penalty fees? Like The I mean You're talking like they didn't get a demo permit? Yeah, so they So, it's 100 bucks instead of 50. Yeah, that would

Business. Well, that would be included in the permit fee. It would just be a double permit fee. Yeah. But if you're talking penalties, those get established by courts, and that has to be something that goes to court, and the courts establish when we would be having any of those, um depending. Right. So, those don't get budgeted for. Okay. Only only the courts can establish penalties. We can't We can charge them a double fee, but we can't uh Something would have to go to the court. The court would have to Okay. There's a judgment, and then there's court fees. Yeah. And we don't budget for an expectation of penalties. Yeah.

Thank you. Moving on from uh revenue sources. All right. Um eight. So, general general government's up uh 7.7. Okay. Public safety's up 9.7. Community services 50%. It's a It's $1,000, and that's over like last year, which was an 18-month budget. So, um that's basically general assistance we throw a Yeah, it's up 50%, but it's a small number. back from the state anything that we dish out, and we don't typically get a lot of requests for that. I mean and sums that we do, they don't necessarily qualify. Some can go to the county, right? Some of those requests.

Yeah, some of them work. So, if there's an emergency, um Ashburnham County can handle it for when we're not here. And there's a reimbursement from the state there as well, right? There's a reimbursement as well. reimbursed 70%.

Yeah. Yeah. So, okay. I guess I should have started this whole conversation. When do we get to the point that that at least I'm not going to vote for a 10.9% increase? We going to do that? Next week is when we're finalizing our budget. Yeah. Just remind me to bring that up. We We won't pull it over. We'll go over it now.

Here. All right, so where are we at? Are you Um Page nine. Page nine. Yeah, so uh debt requirements 14.2%. Okay, so for a total of 11.3 total funding requirements. And the assessments and fixed costs, that's the county and the state, is that What's that? The assessments and Yeah.

think helpful if we reversed a little bit here to go over the summary to talk about what what we're talking about actually being able to adjust. Because Do you want to go up to page three? Yeah, sorry. We should have done that to begin with. So,

to know those numbers though. I I think everyone in the room knows this, but I want to say it cuz I know people are watching, too. Essentially, our budget's made up of three portions. The school, the county, and then our municipal expenses. Uh here as a select board, all we can do is pay the bill for the school and the county. We don't have a say in that. And so, the residents in town, when we're talking about this budget, the only place we can really make adjustments is in our municipal portion of it. And so, when you look at the budget here, our fixed costs are 77%

of the total budgeted amount. So, if we've got a dollar we're working with, 77 cents we can't do anything about. Those are completely fixed. Our um wages and benefits are about 14% of our budget. And so, our discretionary costs, which are things that we in theory can make adjustments to, are 8.6%. Now, discretionary meaning we can choose not to pay roads. We can choose not to put money into uh capital reserves, those sorts of things. And when we're talking about the budget, we're really we can't really focus at all on that 77% because we don't have any say about that. Um I will just say I have talked to the school board, and they told me that they never get public comment at their meetings when they're setting their budget. And so, if that if you pick if you got a bone to pick with that 77%, we we that's not here. We can't do anything about it.

meeting. Yeah. Um And so, that's what I just wanted to highlight right there. Some of these wages and benefit elements we don't have control over either. There's increases in uh benefits went up 9%. And so, that is an increase that we can't control cuz we have to offer offer those. Uh and so, when we're talking about this, I just want people to keep that in mind.

Do you have anything you want to add? Yeah, I do. Um so, I'm still on that page three. So, the '26 budget, wages and benefits were 13%. So, this budget, they're 14%. So, the the rate went up 1%. Okay, I think that's important to know. And the fixed costs, what we don't control, in '26, that was 75.6%. It's 77.4, so that went up 1.8%.

All right? So, the discretionary cost though, I think, is really where the rubber meets the road is because in 2026, it was 11.4%. It's down to 8.6. That's a 2.8% reduction in the discretionary funding. So, even though spending goes up, it goes down at that rate. You know what I'm saying? Cuz it's different from '26, and I think that's the story.

And I think the the thing to look at here is that the budget that we the select board asked Jerry to prepare is lean and mean, no extra frills, cost of doing business. And you'll see here that at least over the last few years, we've continuously decreased the proportion of our budget that is variable and discretionary costs. And at the same time, our fixed costs, which is our um education, debt services, county tax, has increased. There was just an article in the Sun Journal uh this week about that. Um a lot of municipalities are seeing the same thing that we're seeing. The rate at which their fixed costs are going up is almost impossible for them to absorb at local cuts. And so, um I think that that's just a testament of our town manager finding uh efficiencies over and over and over again. Same with our our staff here. Um And we us just sharpening the pencil every year, looking at revenue. We made

some adjustments there in the past, and uh just really doing a good job with that sort of stuff. So, we can get to a discussion later as to where we want to make adjustments if we want to make adjustments, but I just want to make sure everyone knows the vast majority of this, unfortunately, is out of our hands. You know, 77 .4%. And the biggest piece of any budget is going to be your wages and benefits. Tom Gray in the school department said here the other night and said that was the biggest piece of the pie there. I think they said for them it was like 70% of their budget.

Something like that. Well, and I did some research on local municipalities. Um we are at like 14% of our overall budget is wages and benefits. When we look at the surrounding communities, that percentage is more like 20, 30, and 40%. So, we run a very lean staff here comparatively. Now, running it comparatively doesn't change the fact that it comes out of our wallet, but I just wanted to share that information that we look at how we're doing compared to the other municipalities, we don't offer, you know, a lot of the services that they offer. We're we're making up for that in savings on on wages and benefits as a proportion of our budget. So, just something to think about, too. Um and the same thing with the county, too. If you was to ask the county commissioner what's the biggest increase in their budget, they'd be interested to Yeah. All right. We can All right. So, let's bring this to the

to the to the expenditures of the budget, like page 10. the biggest increase in this is wages and benefits. Health insurance went up 9%. Um I mean, we can go line by line, but Well, this is a good time cuz I'm going to bring this up every time. I get that we have great employees, but you know, we're talking 19% pay raise plus plus benefits. There's nobody out there getting that kind of money. Nine you know, 19% a year, and that is discretionary. Well, we all voted on that already. If I can speak to that, I lost two employees this past year. One of them went from making $20 an hour a year to making $35 an hour in another town, and the other one went from making $22 an hour to making $40 an hour. I can't compete with neighboring towns because that's what they're paying. I understand that.

it's not a pay raise, they're pay adjustments to get us up to where we should be to compete with our neighboring towns. I I hear you, and we do have the wage scale, but you know, when we talked about that, it was going to be a $160,000 increase. Now, it's over $200,000.

Well, there's also an added employee in this, and there's an um from the new uh safety director, or sorry, that's not what's the name of the position. The Uh EMS That's an added Well, so it's not just that percentage increase. We have health insurance and 9% increase on those new employees, so that's not just the That that whole increase isn't raises. There's new expenses in there, too. I I I hear you, but when you get so there's other things that are based on salary. I hear you, Calvin, and I understand that. And I've actually had people call and say, "You got to increase salaries because we're you know, we don't want to leave me." But we're asking people to pay a hell of a lot of money in taxes, and that aren't you know, you know, that aren't getting it. So, you know, do we need to jump to whatever pay raises we had? We approved the pay scale, but we didn't approve that that John Tell was going to be a

level six. We just approved what that wage scale was. So, you know, we didn't know, and shame on me for voting for it at the time, what the impact was. So, I'm just going to I'm just going to say that. I think 10.9% It's pretty hard to complain about the school at 7% when we're 10.9% or 10.3,

whatever it is. It's a perfect example of previous iterations of the committee kicking the can down the road and leaving us with the pile of trash. I hear you, but again We spent 7 months with an unstaffed public works department during storm season. We had staff working 80 hours a week, putting themselves at risk and putting the community at risk cuz I mean, have you looked at what a What do you get a pay someone with a CDL to get a job? It's not 20 bucks an hour.

We We've talked about that, and I hear what everybody's saying, but you know, 15% whatever it is, that's a boatload of money. That's an awful lot of money on people's taxes. And we also shared that pay study that showed we're still 20% below the surrounding communities.

you, and yet our taxes are probably higher than all the surrounding communities. False. I don't think that's true. It's not true at all. Pownal and some others, so Well, look at the services that Pownal has and the size of the community.

Okay. Well, You can make up the numbers if you want, but you have to have the facts to back them up, John. I'm just saying that that's you know, we're putting a whack on people. Which we all understand, but the people are asking for services, too. And so, if we need a plow truck driver, we can't get that right now. We just spent 7 months without it. So, unless we're going to start skipping plowing roads, which we can talk about, but we got to figure it We got to figure it out. I think this is a good discussion, but I don't think that's the point of tonight's presentation. I'll postpone that.

And and so So, we just to throw in my two cents, we've recently in my office lost multiple people um because of pay. And uh basically, I could go make two or three times what I'm making now if I left and went into private practice. Uh and that has its pros and cons for me. Um I I just I think and I get the big increase, but we need the the staff we have, from what I understand, and again, I've never had any bad interactions, but I also don't have a lot of interactions with the staff. I just I don't go in uh as you know, maybe as often as I should. Um uh you know, I think we need to keep what we have because we at the end of the day are essentially a service organization and providing a service to the town. Uh and so, I'm open to ideas, but I also uh people, and if we cut people, you're going to lose people, and we're not going to provide the services we have. And uh I think the the taxpayers in this town

have made a choice that we want these services, and we want them done. And uh you know, I think it started before I moved here almost 14 years ago now, uh and it's continued uh from before I was on the board to when I joined the board 4 years ago. And so, I I get it's a big increase, and I agree with you. At the same time, you know, we we we have to provide the service. Like, we're we're obligated to provide some, and the citizens said we want these other services. And so, um I think arguing over that is fine, but I think there needs to be options, and just cutting without saying this is how it's going to affect the citizens and the services uh is not is is a helpful

Well, we'll get into those kind of details, but I think we have to be careful to say we're not cutting services because we used to pave or we're paving 4 miles of road a year. Next year, we're going to pave one and a quarter. And so,

seen the cost of paving? I I did, but I mean, two dollars last week. But as as I said when we first talked about this, we have to sacrifice other services. So, we are in fact not paving as much road as we did. And And so, to say, "Well, we you know, what are the services, you know, I'm not adverse to saying that maybe people spend you know, we have a line occasionally at the uh at the counter, you know? We don't necessarily have to have instantaneous service. I I appreciate the fact the staff is very good at that. So, I'm not going to keep beating on that, but those are my points, and I'll talk about how I think we can cut stuff on this budget as we get there. All right. Um we'll get to that. But I'll warn you, you're going to have to come with numbers and not feelings when you're going to you want to engage in a productive debate with me. I'll come in with, you know, whatever, but uh

Anyways, so Jared, can you continue with it? Yeah. So, the the one line that looks percentage-wise big is the 34.6. It's uh it's in the auditor's line. Um So, we don't have an auditor right now, so I was kind of my manager but the RFP went out this week, and closes April 30th. So, um I didn't know what to put in there, but Mark is really familiar with auditing, so he he thought it should be right up there around 22,000. So, that's why that's going to be. Other than that, there's really nothing that much bigger than what it was last year. Do you see anything there? I don't know but line by line, it's No. foolish.

All right. This is Our total is 608,070. Yeah. So, 13% increase in the general in the administration part of Mhm. of uh the general government category. I forgot to ask you this. Um my question is with the legal um I can't remember what the con contract says, and um and and so, I wanted to ask you ahead of time, so I'm going to ask you now because I'm going to forget tomorrow. Is Is uh are you using Are you using the lawyer as as often as you see fit? Are you not using the lawyer because of cost? That That's

tricky. If it's just a simple thing, we'll call MMA. So, if it's a if it has to do with like planning board stuff or zoning or something like that, we'll use someone. If it's if it's if there's a real case of liability for the town, we'll use the lawyer. But if it's just a question of process or something like that, we'll call MMA. And And so, are you are you like I guess, you're asking if that's enough I don't think that. I I was trying to beat around the bush, I guess, and and and and and to me, you know, not that I want to make all lawyers rich or anything, but uh you know, I think it's an important line and it protects the town and protects the taxpayers because if a mistake is made, it's going to cost us more. Right. And I just I I My question is I guess the question is is that enough? Well, you you never know what's going to come down, you know, and what you might need them for, but I mean, in one year

we spent almost 12,000. Um So, I bumped it up to 15. Plus, their rate goes up, too, every year, just like everybody else's. So But, I will say that Jerry, I think, does a good job of controlling it because, you know, in my planning board time you know, we couldn't go straight to the lawyer. It had to go to him and and he talked it over whether it was a good use of lawyers versus MMA or whatever they are. Right. MMA insurance. So, I try to manage it that way. But, again, you never know when something big might happen or some sort of liability comes to town. You just You just don't know. But, I think that's okay.

one of those numbers that popped out when I reviewed it and I, you know, I went through a couple times and that was one that I said, "Well But, I don't like the 10.7 either. No, I get it. Well, so it's like so you try to like I think that staying lean on that line and being mindful that it's a fixed bucket that we can pull from there. And like John said, going being mindful of going to MMA or some of the legal issues pertaining, let's say, to like personnel. We have the the consulted service with a personnel uh representative now that can help alleviate some of the the pain on that and that contract is a lower per hour cost than the legal fee. So, it's kind of saving those legal expenses to only being working at top of license, you know. Mhm. And I think that in a perfect world to mitigate risk, I'd like to see that number go up, but we're already at a big increase and I just think that we

have to start saying we are accepting some level of risk to mitigate expenses. What if we get a big lawsuit like a 100K for something? Um we dip in reserves, correct? Yeah, you you you got that and you already got special town meeting to raise money. Yeah, it was I mean, it was the lack of getting the term for the sort of the catchall um line in the budget. Contingency. Thank you. Uh that just Yeah, so you have a contingency reserve you can Yeah, that's what I think you were referencing. Yeah, I I got about that, but I was just saying if you if you get a $100,000 reserve $100,000 loss, then you're going to have to dip in all the reserves, I think. Hopefully, we never Yeah. have such a thing. Okay, that you know. And other places where legal would increase, too, is like if there was a um conditional use zoning that came in,

but that could be built into the the the fee with the conditional use applicant, too. So, I I that for those reasons, I think this is a this is a a a lean number that we cross our fingers and hope everyone's on their best behavior. Yeah, no, I just I just want to make sure, you know, to to me that's an important one because of the negative impacts that could have could happen to us if if we're wrong. Oh, yeah. Mitigating risk is our number one goal here. All right, move on to assessing, page 11.

it's 22% of the Well, I suppose it is. But, it's small numbers, right? It's uh um the mapping um It's even though we spent more in 26, it was because of some invoicing when we closed the book versus not. So And then and uh the assessor's up, she um she up to pay. So Oh, and then the 2,000 that you see there for the the software license, because we're doing a reval part of the reval price was there was assessing software included. I remember that. So, that's that's maintenance for that software. It's It's strictly assessing software. So, um just so you know, um

came in and and I took all the data off from the our computer trio had to put it into the new program. So, we're not paying money right now. So, they People should start getting notices of when they're going to show up, but I'll keep you up to date and post it when that actually happens, but just trying to get organized. So, the total assessing is 26,800.

All right. So, information technology is up 7.1%. It's just basically uh inflation cost. Um Is the text messaging service where we is that another What? Um Text messaging? Yes, it's right there. So, it's a line But, we weren't charged for it last year or uh last year.

Yeah, oh no, we paid for it. So, that's that's added. Oh, it's a new line item. I see. Yeah, it's a new line. So, it's in there. What It wasn't like the software line, but it's really a tech. When we got it, we were sort of like So, the 4K is in administration somewhere?

No, information technology. Oh, that makes sense. So, that's a new line in information technology. It's the full line for text messaging. Thank you. All right. And if we don't want we I don't want you know, don't want to include that, we talk about that next week. Subtract 4K. Okay.

All right, so some some big changes here. So, we eliminated the full-time code enforcement officer cuz we already have one in town and and uh public works director or road commissioner. So, we don't have that full-time, so we're splitting that cost with public works cuz he's going to be both now. Um so, that's the big change there. That's why you see that. But, that's down total planning and code enforcement. It's down 16.3%.

And we got rid of the mileage cuz Calvin has a truck. So, he doesn't We don't need to pay the mileage for the code enforcement officer. So, that's actually a decrease. So, that makes total government up 7.7%. Jerry, if I could interrupt the uh is the assistant not the assistant, the admin assistant, where is that? It is posted or something. Yeah, applications. I'm sorry, it's where? In in the budget part. I think he's asking where the budget is in. Well, it's half of it's in the part-time wages for planning and code enforcement and the other half is in Calvin's public works budget. I will ask I think that's 32 hours. I will ask the question, can we live with 28, which is 7 hours on 4 days and we don't have to pay health insurance, which is 33,000 They're budgeting for 33K. So, we'll talk next today or next week or next meeting. I'm happy to discuss that.

32. That was what was presented to us last meeting. Well, that was my question about, you know, me to get in ahead of the budget a little bit there. So Well, if we have a vacancy, we have to we have to we have a vacancy, we have to we have to fill it. And if we filled it under the previous vacancy, it would have been at 10 $5 or $10 an hour more expensive and $33,000 budget. So, it was posted at a But, but but we currently have a part-time and not paying benefits. So Like that if we got to cut do In my opinion, we have to do something to cut the budget and I think that's uh um And I first off, I appreciate Calvin stepping up to the plate. Uh but, we would be getting, you know, 28 hours of admin assistant to help with that uh versus 32. So, 4 hours a week, I don't think is a killer.

continue next time. Fire department. Public safety, page 13. Fire department. So, again um wages and benefits are up. That is driving most of that. Um there is a full-time staff personnel. Um part-time staff wages is up to slightly. Mhm. And uh What did we do? We gave them uh the um EMTs? Yeah, the EMTs a little bit more. Yeah, I I wanted $7 just for parity cuz I can't get EMTs. You're You're asking run a full-time ambulance with with whoever comes through the door. What What's your Bates college kids? Uh we gave them two. They need seven just to be average with Lisbon. Every other $7 an hour? Yeah,

parity. We gave them two. And is that for parity being paramedic? No, parity as just what an EMT basic makes in this valley. That's not firefighter, you know, department. That's just like on an ambulance. I pulled every one of them. They're all $25 an hour. I'm proposing uh 20 Mhm. for an EMT. They're currently 18. So, what what you talk about Uh that that's just some of the increase in the part-time. That's all. And part-time wages is down 3% anyway. He up still down. If you're looking at it, the the first eight that are in the shadow, that that's just sort of personnel cost that fixed sort of, if you will. And nine nine of the line items out of the 24 are all down for the fire department. Just to let you know, I reiterate John, the town manager slashed my whole software line, took it right out, and then cut another 10,000 out of my budget. So, I'm still busy. I'm still fighting for it. And don't kid yourself.

The hang of those are all down. So. I welcome it. I didn't cut it, Jerry. Thank you, Jerry. He did cut it out. I'm not I'm still not talking on Just a little cuz of uh animal control. Animal control, as you see, is sort of under public safety, and they're up 16.9. So, um At the end, it's up 9.7, but I don't own the animal control. So, you you'll have to separate those two. And that's a contract with Lisbon or somebody?

Yeah, yeah. And the Humane Society cost the Humane Society. That's on page four. Page four of the last line. Yeah. Yeah, I know that we last year dove into that. That's not We're not That's not a lot of money for what we have cuz that's This includes the animal control being picked up and picking up the assessment at the vet office, right? Or is that a different line? We talked about this last year. I know we talked about it with the budget committee that there's some money allocated for like if someone has to come get an animal and it's unclaimed, it has to go to a vet clinic and that we absorb a cost there. Am I I thought I talked about this last year. Yeah. And that's page you needed. I mean, if we don't have any dogs, you only pay if somebody comes and gets them. So, we have a contract with the animal control officer. Yeah, I just pay this bill when it comes in. I don't Yeah, but I mean, it's not a fixed contract. So,

it's It's automatically 22 Well, it's a combination of the ACO and Lisbon and Okay, I I just was asking if if you don't have a dog, you you pay, I guess. You pay 22.6 for the year, whether you have any dogs or not. Is that

It's not only about dogs, though. This is also about like rabbits and animals. Yeah, I mean, whatever they call them. Yeah, that's it. Thank you. Lisbon ACO. Yeah. It's pretty good. Yeah, works out. They're actually They come They come quickly. So, total public safety is 9.7.

Want to tell them what it All right, so now we're on to public works. Again, wages and benefits is what's the the the most that's up. Um actually down. Mhm. But half of that position the half of the um planning and public works position is in this budget, too, under part-time staff.

talk about here. He's down just about everywhere. Stayed pretty pretty flat. Kelvin, are you speaking to Jerry? We are still Speaking on that. I'm just making sure. I got the haircut after Jerry was done. Okay. Cool. The clippers were out that day by the sounds of it.

I'm you know, I want to see that. Um question I have gas and diesel diesel 6.10 at the pump right now. Did you budget for 6.10? No, we we locked in on a contract for wherever we locked in. Mhm. We're going to go with that. Yeah, gas is tough cuz uh that's the only that's the only fuel that we can't get a locked price. So, that's a um rack plus 20 cents. Can you explain what you mean when you say rack plus 20?

Whatever the cost is that day, whatever it is. Just like at the pump, it goes up and down. So, whatever they can buy it for, they'll add 20 cents. So, when this went in, when I when I did this and the the price was $2.25 a gallon plus 20 cents. Figure that out. Then the business staff $75 a gallon, yeah. Well, right. So, I I added it three bucks. See, I added 5,000. I don't know what to do with that. That's only the gasoline. That's a small portion of what we use. We only have three vehicles that run gas. Mhm. The diesel's locked in. The heating oil's locked in. I don't see the energy prices going down. No, that's What I'm asking is if that's enough. I don't know. Uh same with fire. So, with fire, the rack on the diesel and the gasoline, we use 1,000 gallons of gasoline Mhm. for the year, for heat. Um so, whatever that goes up. Again, that projection's estimate. Mhm. The board wants to try to ask the main

one what Yeah. happened if we put in whatever we're going to be putting. Okay. Question on paving and road work. So, we're doing one and and a quarter versus the normal four. Do we have a plan to catch up? Uh yeah, we haven't been doing four. We've been doing I think 2.75, roughly in that neighborhood.

been doing I thought it was, you know, 10% of the 40 miles. Originally, it was, but then we realized that was just out of That was our bridge. So, we've been doing about 2.5, 2.75. So, But if you add that fraction to that, you'll get about four miles a year. It's Yeah, both The four is both paving and sealing. Correct? Right. So, when we say we're treating 10% of the roads annually or roughly, part part of that's repaving, part of it's sealing. No, I got you, but I mean, in the past, we've been 2.75 or four. Now, we're going to do half of that. Um So, and some of which you can crack seal. Stackpole, not by my house, but Stackpole, you can't crack seal. That sucker is gone. Uh hopefully it lasts till August whenever you get out there. So, do we have a plan Let us assume there's other roads that will be that way next year or the year after. Is there a plan? Have you figured out how how I don't

mean to be insulting, but I we need a plan. That's what I'm trying to say. Yeah. I mean, next year, we start picking it back up over the years and get back to where we need to be. I mean, you know, it's uh We're all looking at that 10% number and trying to be aware of that. And this worked well in the past. So. Okay. Um I mean, what have you seen for the expense on paving cuz I know that's been driving been going up.

Oh, can I just say something? If the the per ton price comes in at about 130 bucks a ton, I recommend you don't pave it at all. Cuz you're not going to get any bang for your buck at that price. I mean, last year, we paid what, 80 something? Uh yeah. 82, 83. And to pay a buck 30, a buck 40 a ton, it's foolish. I wouldn't do it. I'll recommend that you don't. You can do whatever you want. But at 140, 150 bucks a ton, What's it looking like right now?

I don't know. They I talked to I talked to the paving company, and they said, you know, they were projected to cut paving costs to cut the liquid asphalt price, but he said, "Now, nobody knows." He said, "Uh all bets are off at this point, but we'll just have to keep watching it." I like it. What we can do is um we can write a warrant article. If it gets in the warrant, if it gets too much, we can put that money in the reserve, so you don't have to raise it again, and then use that.

Well, that's one thing I was thinking about because if it costs I'm just going to use a number here. If it costs 150,000 to pave a mile and a half, but this temporary increase in expense brings that up to 150,000 only gets us a half mile, is it worth paving the road if we can only do a half mile? Or is it worth holding on to that and waiting for better purchasing power the following year? And I I don't say this flippantly cuz I take it really seriously, but when we think about the next road to be paved, Stackpole Road, it's not a main thoroughfare. There's an entrance on either side to get to a main thoroughfare. We don't want to see that get kicked down the can, but it's not a road that gets a huge amount of traffic compared to some of the other roads. So, if there's a year or two to hold off because of increased expenses, it could be this year. Or if people say, "I don't care. I want it paved." It's, you know,

that's what we're paying for. And then I appreciate the discussion, but it is quite it is a crap. Oh, I drove up there last week. Yeah, and totally I don't don't I don't think that it's a good good shape. Yeah. But so, the question is, if you hold off, what do you do to keep it from getting worse? So, cuz you're paying money to go throw cold patch in there and you're you're doing a whole bunch and it People do drive it and it is it sucks. You're going to find it about a month or now you're going to say, "Wow, that happened last winter." And then now like summer came and it flattened back out and it's like, "Wow, what happened to that road that was so terrible?"

If it does, I'll call and say you don't have to pave it, but I don't think that's going to happen. And oh, by the way, I don't drive it anymore. But it's going to come back up. I go Bowie Hill and around It did the same thing last winter at this time and it came back down all the time.

Hey, people tell me all the time they miss them when we had gravel roads. So, maybe we can just turn that one gravel for you. Yeah, I I like the idea of the warrant article. Prices behind the lay that. Yeah. Really do. I mean, even at 100 Yeah, being versus with taxing somebody to put in the bank for a year, we just I don't I should We can discuss that, but I I like being creative. I do disagree that it's going to settle back down, but uh Do you get a better price based on the number of miles you're You get the more you do the better the price, yeah. So, I remember the first town meeting I went to uh they voted not to pave the roads. And you know, at that point I was 30 something and it was like, "That's stupid." And I followed up asking people who were in town government and they agreed. And so, uh you know, I understand this is a discussion that needs to happen. Um uh but I I I also think, you know,

that's sort of what got us into this big debt worth we have now is we didn't pave the roads. And so, uh we have to weigh Jerry's got a point. And we have to weigh that against, you know, the added cost. I mean, if it's not going to go down, it's only going to continue to go up, then doing it now might be a better idea. And, you know, how you plan for any of that? I think it's a guess. Uh and so, I think I think you know, that's something we have to I I understand that not taxing if you're not going to spend it, but I also think that's a decision that needs to be made closer to and I don't think we have the time to to do that. So, I I because I because I I I believe and you know, I live on a state road, so the state paves and it's already cracked and everything around my house. Um and they just did it a couple years ago. Um uh and so, I don't drive on that road but maybe once a year. Uh so, it doesn't

bother me. It's in rough shape. But I it's something to me I I I feel strongly about and I will advocate for paving. I think it's it's important because it's costly and delaying is just more costly. So, that's I I I know that last time, I think the number I heard was last time oil was $100 a barrel, the state could only with the same dollars pave 80% of what they had uh budgeted for. And so, oil's hovering around $100 a barrel most days right now. So, we can I think that we that's a policy discussion of do we want it bad enough to pay whatever price they're asking for or do we want to hold off and we can hope hope for the best, but it's a tough it's a tough position to be in. It's even tougher when it's you know it's I'm not saying that this is the case, but it's even tougher if you know your road's the one and it's in rough shape, you know. So, I mean, the better None of these People aren't ready, so that's

I I actually do drive it a lot, so I've been there. I mean, I think that one thing that goes without saying right now is that increased expenses stink and we're seeing that at a high rate. And when we look at percentages, you know, yeah, the school's up 7%, but that's also at the 77% of our budget went up 7%. So, that 7% hurts a lot more than 3% here or 4% there. Um and this is a pinch that we're all all feeling, which it just we're going to have to have some hard conversations next

also like 90% of it is outside of our control. Yeah. Right. I mean, all we control is what we're budgeting and what services we want to provide. Yeah. So, Okay, ready? So, solid waste. Is that what we're on? Yeah. On this building? That's not Jessica, did you bring the paper? The spreadsheet? Mhm. I typed it. You said you would bring it on bulk trash day. Yeah, you have it. Yeah. You have it clipped. Yeah. It works. It's clipped. I've been there. I've clipped it. I'm not kidding. I'm sorry, Jake. Go ahead. So, municipal buildings. Um It's up 11.7%.

Um again, that's I don't know if you have a part-time job. You get the benefits that everybody else does. not a whole whole lot to see there. Um Okay. Um electricity that increase is that expected use or expected rate or both? Yeah, that's the heat pump. Mhm. It runs on the electricity, so that's um Probably better than heating oil right now. Yeah. So, You put the packet in this. Let's see. So, in one year, yeah, so in one year it was 6356, so that's uh anticipated electricity. Mhm. Did the internet bucket go to IT?

behind Blake's. Mhm. Upstairs, did the internet bucket go to IT? Yeah, there is no So, the internet is from this room. It's by me. Right. That's why we have it over there, so they know So, that's no cost of the internet. Mhm. Oh. Yeah, cuz it's shot from here over there, so And there's no telephone So, they're just general increases. It's in the back. for the other buildings. What we doing? Uh I don't know why this Uh I where the extra cost for um

the the the cemetery that the town took over. Oh, the legal uh Oh, no, the the cemetery that was transferred to us. Right. Yeah, so that's what was always in Calvin's budget. Okay, that's not the the grounds maintenance in municipal buildings, right? No. That's um Is that grounds maintenance under public works? No. Uh I'm trying That's That That is Well, that's like So, we get um stones cleaned and that sort of thing. Mhm. Maintenance. Some of So, it is Some of that is but like public works mow the grass and that sort of thing.

There's stone restoration that can be done and So, it was just cuz cuz the grounds maintenance under the public works budget was removed. Yeah, we moved we moved it over here. Okay. Okay. But that's the cemetery is included in all the just Yeah, make sure that we're still on top of that. Yeah.

Sorry. Solid waste. Mhm. All right, solid waste. Page 17. So, solid waste. So, the the actual in 2026 and the budget for 2027, that's a 5% increase from the actual cuz that's what they go up. Mhm. All right. So, that 8.5 is just from the 2026 budget, so it's not a real actual. For 2021, it's 5% off that.

And then the one thing you'll see is the bin management with that's at 80,000. That's what's in the contract. Bring that total up to 501,000. I just want to quick do a quick note on that real quick. So, a comment that we got was that people felt that the bin management was an expense that was functionally buying the bins. And I wanted to clarify that that is part of the bin rental and part of the bin management. If we had to buy the bins, it would be um $495,000 for bins. So, when someone the other day erroneously said, "We're paying for the bins anyways." I want to make sure I just clear that up. We're not paying for the bins. We're paying for the just the management of them. And that's where it gives the incentive on the company not to break them because they own them. Yeah. Um the one big thing that I spoke out of the budget was bulky waste. I talked about that the last time. Mhm. So, my

rationale behind that is there's there's a There's a 15% participation rate in that program, but it's spread out over everybody's taxes. I personally don't think that's fair. So, you all more than you guys can throw it back in. I'm I'm happy with that. I just think

us with the with an estimated budgeted number that you would 18,000 was in there that before. had. 15% Well, the weather was really bad. I mean, but the weather was really bad and do we have any participation trends over the last 10 Well, the the other thing I would ask is I we I assume we counted trucks as they drove in or cars or whatever it may be.

Yeah. I mean, I would suggest that 50% or more of those vehicles were serving more than one person. I haul trash in my truck. People, you know, lots of people haul. So, I don't know if it's double, but I think there's a significant number of other residents that take advantage of it. And to me it's a little bit like saying, you know, well, shouldn't pay school taxes cuz I don't have kids there. I never had kids there. But I think it's it's somewhat misleading if you say 250. Well, what I'm sorry, what were we saying? 247 loads Okay. is a it's a very small percentage of the But again, again, again, but I would bet that's probably closer to you know, 350.

bets, it's get we're getting a little little conjecture can get a little dangerous. an understanding of what it was in 2024? Do we know? No, but I can tell you that it had to be about the same because it was non-stop. God, it never stopped. So, it had to be it could it couldn't have been more because we wouldn't have been able to handle it. No, I think one thing we hear is from the communities that some people say I don't use it every year. So, that 250 this year could have been different than the 250 people last year. But I haven't had anybody come to me and say, "Hey, great job. You cut bulk trash day." Oh, they we cut it on the floor 2 years ago.

I know. That was that was a disaster. And we put it right back in. put it back. Yeah, we can put it back. it because I don't think it's fair to the populace. That's I got I got feedback that someone said, "I'd like to see it funded every other year." So, So, what would the percentage be if we were to added it? The percentage increase decrease. Do we have Can you provide that number? 10 cents a or a thousand Well, the other thing while we're figuring that out was I So, that line item on your And sorry, can you repeat that? It would bump you back up another point 2% on your projected property tax levy. Okay. Thank you. So, I passed around a spreadsheet that I worked on. It's two-sided. Um But I thought, why don't we treat or what if we treated trash day like a and I know it's not the same, a transfer station. So, I put together some pricing there compared to and it didn't print out, but I'm sorry,

it's missing. It's Durham and yellow, Lisbon, Freeport, and then North Yarmouth. So, I I can redo this. Somehow I managed to cut the the towns that are involved. Um So, anyway, those are the prices I should I compared them to what other people are doing. If you just charge, you know, 10 bucks a vehicle that goes in there, you're talking about another 2500. It's sort of like trash bags, which pays a part of the cost. But uh Anyway, like I said, I just put some costs together. Don't know if they're right ones. I certainly would you know, Calvin and Jerry can certainly weigh in and say, you know, that's a dumb Why do we have three different carpet prices or I don't want to do propane tanks for whatever reason, tires. So, anyway, the the number the numbers are there and my guess is it's probably closer to 3500 dollars is over 300. So, 250 or two is 2500. And it's a little bit more if you count

trucks is going to put you over 3000. So, I I just have a question for you because I'm very confused. So, are you saying that we would charge only per car or you saying we would charge per item? Per item. So, you pay 10 bucks to get in the door for your car, 15 bucks if you're a pickup. And again, you can charge whatever you want there, but you know, a Freon item, which is I I forget what all has air conditioners, freezers, that kind of stuff. So, what staff would be handling this? Well, somebody that's at the gate checking them. Right now, we're taking tires at the end of the day and we charge them per tire. So, I think it to to this point you're paying for the service. I think an easier solution would be to just be a set fee to participate in bulky waste day. And like I did the like math here, 18,000 divided by 250

is 72 bucks. Cuz that's what it costs per truck to to throw it out. Now, would people want to pay $72 to bring their truck load over? Probably not. But I think that that if we wanted to provide the service saying we can't provide this as a tax paid service, but we can provide it in the sense that you don't have to go to the dump. We can bring things over for you. You just come and drop it off. We could just have a flat, you know, you buy your card at the town office. You hand it over to someone at public works when you bring your vehicle over. You know. Well, I I think $72 is is way too much money. And if you don't want to pay for it, then you shouldn't use it.

Yeah, but I mean, again, part of it was it's subs was totally was subsidized by tax money and I don't think it has going to cover it. But to me it's the same as trash bags. Trash bags don't come close to covering the total cost. So, building permits, they don't come close to covering what it costs for the actual inspector to go out there and do those other kinds of things. I mean, when we bring the trash over on bulky waste day, they just charge a tonnage fee when you guys drop it off or you all drop it off. Yeah. Do you Yeah, it could be worth looking at that tonnage, looking at what the tonnage fee is and trying to do some back math. But what you're proposing is that we would budget a subset of the expense and then make up for the rest in a pay as you go. it we budget 5000, but it's 25 bucks a vehicle to come bring trash in.

That's that's an option. I mean, I'm not hung up on 72 to me kills it. I don't know what 25 does. Yeah. Oh, yeah. No, I I hear what you're saying. I'm just thinking I'm trying to I know it can be kind of chaos over there. So, trying to limit like, oh, is that a washer? And then, oh, I opened it up. You didn't tell me you put two propane tanks in your washer. Okay. I I don't want to make it difficult. I mean, that's why I'd like the staff to take a look at it. Us to to There was probably There may be a better idea. I mean, we're already charging for air conditioners and dehumidifiers. Uh so, there are certain things and tires. Yeah, it may Well, let's put a pin in that because it could be we say budget 5000 for it. I'm just throwing a number out there and then make up the other 10,000 in or if it's 13,000 in in fees and expenses. But it takes a little homework between now and 2 weeks from But it sounds like

we're already doing part of it. And then this year I also told them not to take our metal anymore. I didn't realize we weren't getting compensated for both. The scrap? And so, I have another company bringing bins for the metal. I said, "Just leave it. We'll take care of it." That's probably a few thousand dollars that they were pocketing that well. We weren't being compensated. The scrap? Yes. So, we I told them this year just leave it. We'll take care of it. I've got an extra I I just throw that out there. In 3 weeks we can we can talk about it. I am not in favor of eliminating it cuz in my mind that's one less service we're providing. Trash day is a a service. So,

Yeah. And I know the version you had emailed before John had the the headings. If we can make it part of the packet, that would be great. I'll send you another one. It needs to have a big watermark on it that says Proposed. Yeah, draft for consideration.

Draft for They all saw what Cuz if someone emails me and says, "You're going to charge me 20 bucks for a sofa." I'm going to say, "Talk to John." It does say proposed at the top. Yeah. That's not big enough for the website though. I I can I can repurpose it. And somehow I deleted the three towns. Did you you email this? Uh he emailed a draft to me and I took a look at it. Yeah, I didn't want to start the whole you can't you can't It was like I Yeah. Was Jeff going to have it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but I think this is a good example of I can send it out again. I think it's an example of trying to get creative. Yeah. Which is good. Which is good. I don't think Jerry meant that we shouldn't have, but I think he was trying to say is that it should be pay as you go. Mhm. So, you can pay as you go. Pay as you go. It's the same the same concept.

Well, that was this concept. You know, if you use it, you should pay for it. Yeah. If you're not using it, you shouldn't be paying for it. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I I like the idea of just offering it, but when we have so many fixed costs that are increasing at a rate that is really hard to mitigate, it's where we start talking about trying to decrease expenses and that's that's a spot that, you know, I know is a leads to a lively debate annually. So, I think it should be though reasonable Right. prices to get in. Well, if it's too much, people aren't going to use it. You know, the 72 bucks for example. But if even 25 bucks for the vehicle puts a good dent in there. It's a good dent in there. Yeah. Yeah, I I said this is out there. Whatever makes sense. And you're already charging some of those things. And this may be too much, too little. So, I guess I would ask please take a look at it.

All righty. So, page 18, community services. Not a whole lot to see here. That's that general assistance. We found a thousand. You could see last year. Uh we paid out 755. You probably got 70 Well, we did get 75 70% of that back and it just goes into that miscellaneous revenue coming in. Mhm. It's just how the program works. So, that that thousand has been the same since I've been I've been here actually. Mhm.

is. We Um the county tax that uh 918,788 is the number. That's what they voted on this year. Uh education. So, that number there is a 7% increase from what our assessment was last year. So, just know that if the school does a 7% increase, it doesn't necessarily mean it's a 7% assessment to turn. Okay? Mhm.

So, it's some magic formula. They may go 7% up on their complete budget. Yeah. But their assessment could be a little bit different as they work through their formula and I don't know what they've We don't know what that number is. So, that's not a hard concrete we know what it is. But we will know as as they work through their process, we'll change it when we when we actually have it. Court tax payments we don't put in right now. Um well, that'll be in the amendment for you amendment that you all pay every year. And that transfers out as the funding of the reserves. Mhm. The 395, that's down a half percent from last year. So, so a town wide up to total of 9,527,134.

Mhm. 2.42%. And that will keep us where we don't have to have a big payment 5 years from now. This will, you know, based based on those things we saw we shouldn't have any big payments in 5 years for an ambulance or a fire truck.

Yeah. Okay, good. Yeah, cuz I mean and that's always a place to talk about decreasing expenditures is taking money out of a capital. But um I would highly recommend against it because uh in my experience anytime you wait to borrow money in the future, it's more expensive than saving it in the present. So, Right, this gives us the I mean, it's probably minimal interest income, but it's something. And it doesn't give us the interest expense. Which is, you know, $43,000 this year. Yeah. Uh which adds up over the course of 10 years. Mhm.

that 15% when we think about the percentage, that's 15% on our biggest number. That's a million dollars alone increase on our total budget. So, when we look at our expenses there, that's a that's a lot. Okay. have the accounts? Yeah.

the reserves that we talked about today. That's what No, we didn't put anything in like uh the grant grants non-matching. Or wait, sorry. The uh grants matching fund. So, we didn't put any money in that. We still have 25,000 in there. I think that's fine. Mhm. Um but you can see where things have I mean, if you look at this with The only thing we added to the reserves was the public works, fire, and the buildings reserves this year.

recreation fund. We're not adding anything to it. I didn't add it. And and so, but my point here is in the past we've supported the baseball team. We've supported other things in town. Um the the snowmobile club, things that people like to use in a time when we're trying to cut all expenses, the first unfortunately good place to look at that too is just saying no more town support for those sorts of things. Um or, you know, we're going to spend down this grant grants this recreation fund which has a balance here of 19,742. We can move forward and if requests come in, we understand that that we're not putting money in there to try to mitigate expenses right now.

of there last year was um baseball. Uh the recreation funds. I Yeah, I know baseball was one of them. Baseball. The snowmobile we do, but also the snowmobile registration generates income um back to us and we kind of return a portion of that. So, we're saying the snowmobilers are getting their money back towards their snowmobile club. You could make a policy where that actually funds that account. Yeah. Or if that it goes into recreation and you get it back. Right now, it doesn't. Mhm. So, just keep that in mind. I I I see the value of that, but also in economic pinch times,

Yeah. I I like the idea of keeping that as a variable decision that the board can make, but I'm open to the board's feedback on that. Well, this year or last Sorry, last year 2025 they needed assistance in building the bridge.

Correct? Like wasn't that what happened? that was that was No, no, no. We gave them kind of the same as normal, but they came in and said that's one of the projects they had been working on. Okay. Yeah. And they had requested 15. The baseball team had come came in and had had asked for more because they were looking to get a batting cage, you know. Yep. So, you have to decide, you know, cuz like I said that Penguins snowmobile club have asked for 15. So, do you want to take it out of rec or do you want to raise it? Mhm. I don't

want to put any I don't want to put any Does anyone I mean, we can have this discussion next week, but I don't see us putting anything more in rec. in there. Right. I'd be happy to if you want to. It's really up to you. So, Okay? All right. All right, so let's flip to the front and One One last thing, the gazebo. Is Is that in the buildings? Where is that? What where would you say that

that money's already been allocated or set aside in a warrant for 30,000. Mhm. So, But that would come out of uh That would come out municipal building capital fund, right? Okay, that's what I'm asking. Is that where it is? Yeah. It just now. Yeah. I didn't have it in there before. Yeah, it was but that 147,144 30,000 of it is allocated for It is now. Yeah. So, let's just wrap up with a summary so you can hear these numbers.

uh page one? Yeah. So, that um the FY27 budget is the total of 41. One second, sir. So, the FY27 budget is a total of 13,058,601. and revenue the bottom. You got So, the revenue is 2,895,141. So, we're looking to use 500,000 in your undesignated fund balance.

Mhm. Um bringing it down to 9,656,460 tax levy. Now, I'd caution you on how much of the fund balance you use cuz you're right there at your sweet spot where it guys be like shouldn't be between what, 16 and 20%? Mhm. So, 25.

Mhm. Um so, just just know that, you know, you may not like the tax, but if you stop getting that 2 more, you're going to have to raise it back up again, which is going to drive your tax up. So, that's one of the Well, and I think that fund balance is also important for managing cash flow and avoiding tax anticipation notes or whatever. Correct. Yeah. So, I'm sorry. I just have a question regarding the percentage increase of the funds. The additions use of fund balance would be a 1.4 percentage, but Increase over last year last year's annualized fund balance here.

Okay. All right. Okay. Now I understand. So, for the 18-month budget we had done 740,000 out of the fund balance. Yeah. Um I get that now. Yeah. And Mark, we're looking at the projection is that fund balance going to be right around 3 million. Yeah. Uh so, the latest projection that I did was four uh four as of February 28th and around $3 million right now. So, what I do is I take I take all the actuals year to date and basically uh extrapolate what the price what the cost will be for the rest of the year um to figure out where the fund balance should end up. So, as we get closer and closer to year end, the the projection get better and better. Mhm. Right. But generally, it should be around $3 million. We started the year with 3.2 million. Mhm. The fiscal year. I mean, January 1, 2025.

income at what I'm sorry, what line was that at? We can get to it next week. Investment income. From the From the back From the From the interest rate on the Yeah, it's going to That's going to be uh We're We're projecting slight increase, but not much. Yeah. Uh it's just going to I just noticed rates dropping, too. Yeah, and we need to so 115,000

Yeah. Cuz that's the thing about spending out of the fund balances, we're also reducing the principal amount, but also uh rates are dropping. What's the page? Oh, it's page seven, I think. that was the conversation Jerry and I had. Me personally, I think the interest rates are going to go down. Yeah. But What? I mean True.

Quick question on the a good overall um projection here. Oh, sorry. Yeah. Yeah, sorry. Tax Taxable valuation, second last line. Um does it make sense to look at you know, we're using last year's number. We've had a significant increase in very expensive homes in in Durham. Is there a different number that were And by the way, going on this later, I mean, when April we wrap it up Yeah. in terms of wrap it up, I mean, that's all the taxable income has to or taxable numbers valuation is set and what April. Right. Is it Do we wait later? Do we just say, "Okay." Do we add 7 million, 10 million? Uh so, for some clients, uh for most clients, I do it like this because it's essentially a worst-case scenario, meaning on average or normally, valuations go up from one year to the next. And so, if we just uh use this as a projection where we use last year's valuation, then this would be the Unless your valuation goes down, this

would be the worst-case scenario mill rate that you would have. If we increase Sometimes I do um a 1 or 2% increase on the valuation at to help with the projection, but that's usually as we get closer to uh April or after April because then you can have conversations with the

that's my thought. Is it the assessors And the way we've done it in the past, John, is we've gone this route and then when the assessor comes in and tells us our valuation, we don't just adopt uh the mill rate here. We adjust it based off of that evaluation. So, that's why like in the past, cuz we've had an increase in evaluation, when we set the mill rate, we've come in under the budgeted mill rate. And so, it gets into like a PR perspective where it's like, "Well, we can add 1 or 2% here, so we can say, 'Oh, we're only expecting a 8% increase.' But then if we fudge up and get to the back end, it's like, 'Oh, never mind. Our our our levy is more than we expected.' Or we can keep it as a conservative estimate and then when we get there, say, "We'll adjust based off the actual valuation and actually see the mill rate come down." Okay. I mean, that And so, we can look to see what it's come come like

In the since I've been here and I think since you've been here, Josh, it's been the budget presents worst-case scenario for mill rate and then knowing that we have been consistently getting some valuation, it ends up being less when we get to the actual setting of the tax levy. So, by Let me ask this question a little differently. So, Tom meeting whatever it is, 12 June 13th.

June 13th, do we know or have a real good answer on what the actual valuation It depends. I've I've worked with towns where the assessor's agent doesn't get that number. I mean, even though the valuations are determined as of April April 1st, the assessor's agents have plenty of clients that they have to go and work on. So, just like anybody else, sometimes they're like, "Well, it's June, July. I haven't finished all the work yet." So, they usually will give some some sort of idea, but they never give you a hard and fast number until they're done their work. Okay. Otherwise, you end up getting the situation where you have to like Farming to this year, right? Yeah. number

reasonable, you know, swag for lack of a better term. Yeah. It just helps, I think, on June 13th, say, "Well, it's really not going to be 10. whatever it is." It'll be 10.3. Yeah, and I mean, if we don't have that on paper, we can stand up there and you tell her blue in the face, say, "Hey, we promise it will be less than this." and no one's going to believe it, right? Um so, I don't know if there's an opportunity to since we've shifted to maybe follow your your I think the suggestion you're getting at is seeing if we can engage with our Donna earlier and see if she'll have those numbers. We'll have to look at how that lays out with the communication between us and the budget committee because if we're giving them a final at the beginning of April, second week in April, if we don't have that number from Donna, we give it to them and then all of a sudden it gets changed, No. Donna's not going to have that number.

I'll tell you that. Before June? Okay. Cuz that's when she does her work. She doesn't do her work in Yeah. She's going to have to give it to us before the start of the next fiscal year. So, there's only going to be a rate They just give it to you before the commitment date. Right. Right. Which is August. Yeah, so by July, but I mean, we could we could also take I mean, I approached Donna at you know, an IBS, so

We could also take a look at what we've seen for an increase in valuation the last few years and extrapolate based off of that. Right. I mean, for example, if you were to just assume that you're going to have a 2% increase in evaluation, the the percentage here would be 8.5% increase on your mill rate as opposed to a 10.7%. So, a 2% increase in your valuation will decrease your your mill rate by about 2%.

It's good enough. Without doing anything, right? Without doing anything else to your budget. But that's why that's why I prefer for clients to use this. It's a worst-case scenario, you know. Then at least they're prepared to have a lower Yeah. Manage expectations. That's what I always say.

but then all the all the numbers in there had to be at 2.9. Yeah, when we set our tax rate last year, we had budgeted 3.5 and ended up being 2.9 once we set things. So, And that's also because the school changed their numbers then from what we had it at. So. But increase in valuation also has some other implications in the future, like things like revenue sharing portion that we have to pay towards the school. Correct. Stuff like that. Keep in mind, too, you know, with that valuation, so to move that levy 1% in your like this operating budget or whatever, you got to move $100,000 is 1%.

But to that point, if we found if we budgeted at a 2% increase in valuation and then found $100,000 to cut, that would have a 3% decrease in the expected tax rate right off the top, bringing it down to like a 7.7. If there if we can find that 100,000 to cut that meets still meets the people's goals and standards. And if we assume a 2% increase on valuation. You got You're comfortable with a 2%. It would be awful having a lot at the last minute rather than down. Yeah, your option is go to the town and say, "This is worst-case scenario, but we think it'll be lower." Or, "Hey, we're thinking 7%. Just kidding, it's nine." We get yelled at in both scenarios, but

Mhm. Thank you. Good job. This is a lot of work from all of you. Especially, I know that when you've been downstaffed this year, you're piling on in the plow truck and trying to do all this on top of it. So, I really just want to give Calvin a moment of recognition here. It's not been an easy winter. And doesn't seem to want to stop, either. So.

so, one thing I think would be really helpful is if people have facts and figure questions, shoot Jerry and I an email or set up a time where we can chat. Um if it's just a question about facts and figures, um but come ready next week with your pencil sharp to figure out where you want to make adjustments if you want to make adjustments. That next week would be the the time Pretty much. I mean, next week Sorry, next meeting. Um and this will get sent So, I know that um Milt is here, but we'll also make sure that uh the budget committee half of you are here. Uh we'll get copies of this for so Milt and Jill can or I'm assuming that your chair and vice chair will be Milt and Jill again, but um can come to our next meeting and ask questions as well. Because that's the meeting that we're head schedule

to change, right? Well, no. So, the next meeting we could, in theory, make adjustments to this. Um and then it would be corrected and then the that draft would be sent for review to the budget committee. Next meeting we talked about is just when two member the chair and the vice chair of the budget committee are going to come and be able to ask additional questions, facts and figures questions, should they have any as the select board's going through its final process. And those will be them asking the select board the questions. So. And And the department No, we talked about just the select board. Would it be

And then if we can't get the answers, we would defer to the We made it very clear. We can watch the video. It was not department heads. It was the select board. And then if the select board can answer the questions, we can defer to the management manager or the department heads.

on a screen? So, if you're going to start messing around with this, you can see what the impact is on the fly. That's a good idea. Cuz I mean, if you start messing around with a bunch of numbers, we're all going to be going, "Well, what's that? This?" You know what I mean? That could get Mhm. it could get ugly. Yeah, if you can do it in an Excel so that it could be changed while so we can see the changes that are being made. Mhm. That would be very, very helpful. Feel like we would mostly do that. Yeah. Yeah. And so, we can just set it up here, move off to the side, and it can be projected, and we can start messing with numbers, um and figuring out where we can find Yeah. savings if we if we can't find any more. So. So, I got So, at this point, I've given you what you all wanted based on what you gave me for the direction right

Yeah, it's our budget at this point. Now it's yours, so we're happy to make any changes you want. I'll have I can get it Yeah, and that's what I want thing I I just want to reiterate. Every year, people say, "Oh, this is the town manager's budget." And I'm like, the town manager prepares a budget for the select board. This is the select board's budget. We asked you to bring it in as lean as you thought you could go, and now here this is our budget, and we make policy decisions to change that. Um understanding that policy decisions cuz of implications, and those are felt by the policy makers, not the professional full-time staff. So, well, they would be felt by the staff, too. Um if it has implications for workloads and things like that.

um cool. Any other questions on the budget before we move into other new business? Thank you. Thank you. I think we'll want Mark next week next budget meeting, too. Our next meeting, too. Sorry. The second Tuesday of the month in April, which is 13th.

All righty. further new business. Uh discussion. Do we have any questions on the department head reports here? Chief's on call, and picked the the front end loader that has a 20% better fuel efficiency seeing what diesel's doing right now. So, even though we're insulated from that, it's still nice. Um any questions for Calvin on his report? Nope. All right. Moving into election worker Oh. When do we put We need to do the economic development thing? I was just going to say that

Yeah. Yeah, so and and I'm open for discussions here. In the past, the last 2 years when we brought up budget and we've had budget at a meeting, we've kept it pretty lean out of respect for time. I can stay here till 10:00 11:00 o'clock and add things on here. I don't mind. Um well, I I don't love it, but I don't mind, either. No, no, I got help at home. So, I'll maybe I'll bring her, and people will be nicer to her. Thank you, too, for coming. Um so, people want to do a longer meeting to address more things, we can. That being said, I have noticed even though I we're all adults and can stay awake past 8:00, things are harder to do as we get later and fatigue kicks in. So, um so, that's the only reason why I haven't added any other major lifts on here. Um we'll have a chance to after we hand it off uh to the budget committee in April. So, all righty. Appointment to elections. I'm ready to make a motion.

Yeah, I would approve them as a slate if if you're ready to make a motion. election clerks and wardens that were in court that were included in our package. Or I can read them all off. No, John has a a second motion. Do we have a second? I'll second it. Need to read off the names? Um so, I'll read the names off now that we have a a motion, but there's going to be Kimberly Garno, I'll put it up so I got them written out.

Devon Garno, Kyle Bloomstein, um Amy Colt Coleman, Ann Colton, Nancy Swinton, Katherine Curtis, Phyllis Brennan, Oh, boy. Barbara Jebault, there we go. Jebault, Jerry Spring, Jamal, Clinton Gordon, Kevin Carnes, Janice Johnson, Donna Church, John Primavera, Mary Farrell, and we got Katherine Curtis here twice. So, that actually the last two, Joe, are um before every election, you have to appoint your warden and deputy warden. Oh, sorry. And then warden and deputy warden, Katherine Curtis, Katherine Curtis and Nancy Swinton. So, um any discussion? I just want to say this is a thankless job, and it takes a lot of work and a lot of effort. Um and so, I really appreciate every year we have such a great group of people who step up to the plate and uh and handle this. This is And the town clerk for finding them. Yes, this is not this it's just increasingly becoming a job that's harder to fill across the

country for in a volunteer capacity. And so, I'm really happy that we have such great folks in town. I just say my mother's been election clerk down in Florida, and then it's like 2 days of training every year still like that.

All in favor? Any opposition? Seeing none. All right, uh manager's report. Jerry. All right, thank you. Um there's a couple three things here. So, the auditor will come in on the April 14th meeting to do the audit presentation. But if you don't want to have it then cuz of budget all that discussion, I can I personally think we're in budget season, and I'd rather push that off a little bit. What does everyone else think?

the end of 2024, I'd like to get it done. So, I What How long shouldn't take that long to present it? I mean, it didn't look to me like there was a lot of people going to jail after this. So, uh I think we just, you know, we're 16 months after the end of uh the 24 budget. I mean, so I reviewed it online, and since there's nothing concerning, it's not a concern for me to address it right away. Um and so, that's just my opinion. If we want to add it, we'll have to make sure we have an extra long meeting, and that's fine. We can just plan for that. It's just whatever you all prefer.

Jerry, how long do you think it would be open meeting will be? 20 minutes, half hour. Cuz it's not a bad I mean, we have all the right players in town, but I mean, just for informational for the I mean, the audit's going to be the audit's posted on the website. I mean, but I don't think people know how to read it, but um she can certainly present it. I mean, it's all good. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's made to show improvements. Well, the last three have shown improvements in all in many categories. I would send Jerry any questions we have, and he'd have them prepared to answer them. That makes sense. I mean, I I guess I'd really like to get it done. It will be 15 months 14 months with our schedule. Yeah, if we want to keep it, that's fine, but we'll be prepared for a longer meeting. Where is our budget calendar? I'm trying to find the I got it right here for you. I have it, too, but thanks.

the 14th. Um well, we're wrapping up the budget on the 14th of April. Budget Committee is going to get the documents on the 16th of April. We're not reviewing the budget again till the 28th of April. And then on the 28th, we're also doing many of some of them. Mhm. And so, there's no the next quote unquote short meeting would be in early May, um which it's in another month and a half. So, if we want to add it to next meeting, that's fine. Which is we'll be here longer. The budget the May 7th meeting, we have the budget committee's recommendations back to us that they're not physically here, right? What's that? There is just their their recommendation to us. All right, I would move that the assessor come on the May 7th. The auditor. Auditor, sorry. Thank you. Sorry, there's a motion. Oh. All right, we have a motion. Is there a second? I'll second it. Seconded. John, are there any questions or discussion?

I don't think we can set a date for her to come because we have to run the date by her. That's the issue. I I think she's I thought you said she was already on the schedule for the 14th. For April, but not May 7th. Yeah. Oh, sorry.

I was saying May 7th. Okay. So, you would say check to see if she can come for May 7th. Okay. And so, sorry. I make an amendment to my motion? Sure. That you ask if she could instead attend on May 7th. Yeah. Right. Any questions? All in favor? Uh May 7th for the auditor. All in favor? Three and all opposition?

May 7th? No. You were a no or a yes? I'm fine with it. Oh, so you're saying John was a yes. Four one. Um that's fine. But um Yeah, it I mean I I would just say if it's not in if she can't come May 7th, can we still do it next meeting? Yeah, let's That's I should have asked that question, but I you asked for questions and then Sorry. That was You need a minute you need a minute to think of the question. Um Yeah. Um So, let's keep her at the 14th. If she can't come on the 7th, we'll keep her at the 14th. Does that work for folks? April 14th? Yeah. Yeah. Well, no. He's going to make sure

If she can't make it on the 7th. April 7th, if not No, May 7th. Anyway, we're We're not building a good case for our late night meeting here. Okay. Okay. Next thing, speaking of auditors, so I've got the RFP out for to get a new one. That closes on April 30th. See what we get. A lot of municipalities struggle to find audit services. Yeah. But if we do get some, I have it on the May 12th meeting for you folks to choose one. May 12th or May 7th? May 12th. Did you say May 7th for Cuz I think the May 12th is the second

Didn't we just vote for May We did because that was the Yeah, it could be the 7th cuz that'd be the first. May 7th is a Thursday. What the heck? Yeah, that's May 12th is what you meant to say. Okay, May 12th. I'm assuming could we yeah. I'd take a friendly amendment to your motion.

I would like to amend my motion and state that if she cannot come on the next meeting, which is April 14th. 14th, we ask that she come No. Sorry. No, that she come on May 7th. The motion is that we ask her to come to the meeting on May 12th and if she is unavailable, we'll keep her May 14th April 14th April 14th meeting. Yes. I'll second that. All right. So, the motion on the table is to ask the auditor to attend the May 12th meeting and if if she is unavailable to keep her date on May as April 14th. All in favor? Any opposition? Seeing none. Perfect.

All right. The uh admin assistant position is out and we're getting lots of interest. I'll keep you informed cuz I know it's Perfect. And then the other thing was the like I said, the paying the paying on our paying quests snowmobile

So, And he doesn't really need it till after July 1st, Real quick right here. I'm fine with us giving them the 1,500, which we have done year after year and it does not have a fiscal impact on us for for this year. And so, if it's easier to just have that discussion now, um they came in last time, they gave a great presentation on how many miles of trails they have here in town, how many members they have from town, the banquet dinner that they throw to thank all the landowners and stuff like that. I'm fine with that. So, I would just say let's vote on it next meeting cuz we haven't put it as a topic for tonight and I don't want people to think we're voting on it erroneously, but I would just say

meeting to just give them the $1,500 out of recreation reserve. Is there any appetite to maybe develop a policy where it just happens every I I I I My only thought process on that is because ex- fixed cost. But we can talk about it. We can talk about it next meeting. As if Yeah, I think the most we get snowmobile fees Well, it depends on how many snowmobiles get registered, but yeah, right between 1,500 and 1,700. And I did see something on the list serve today. I have to fact check it, but I clerk did put out there if you don't have a snowmobile bill club in your town, you don't get the snowmobile refund. Okay. So, that would be good to know. If that's the case, then just pass through. Yeah.

That concludes. Yeah. Um only thing I have real quick for board member reports is um someone sent us an email about a food sovereignty ordinance and uh essentially there's this uh if you're trying to sell what they call a cottage products, so like like canned jams and jellies and homemade sorts of things, you have to go through a permit process at the state level to get a a permit to sell it. And but if your municipality adopts a local food sovereignty um ordinance, the person doesn't have to go through it for those subsets of products and they had asked if we had ever thought about it. Um I emailed the chair and vice chair of our ag committee to ask them if they knew anything about it and they spoke said that they're uh extremely um extremely familiar with them and if it's something we wanted them to pursue, we could ask them to pursue finding information about it. More or less, it just makes it easier

for people who are selling certain canned goods and items that they make at their at their homes. Um and so, if it if we just informally get a thumbs up saying, "Yeah, let's let the ag committee look into it a little bit more." Does that work for folks? I would like them to look into it because there are a lot of roadside um farm stands that we have here and I think that would be wonderful. Okay. Do it Does anyone give a thumbs down? Okay, I'll let them know. Um the only other thing too is I got a question from the fire corporation about building names. So, we have our fire department, which is the town's that staff and then there's the corporation, which is kind of the the social side of it that has like the auxiliary, the honor guard and stuff like that. And the corporation was formed before there was a town fire department and they have the corporation has dedicated this building to a former

chief. Um and they were wondering someone had asked about putting up a plaque because they've had a damaged plaque and they said, "Well, what do we need to ask the select board if we're going to name the building?" And so, I'm just going to let them know if the corporation chooses to dedicate a building to someone, it's not any sort of fiscal impact, it's not any sort of policy impact. If they wanted to change the name of a town building, yes, that would have to go through a process much like if we're going to change Eureka. So, I think that there was some confusion that some people thought that the building name had already been changed, whereas it had just been dedicated. And so, I'm just making you all aware of that because I don't like to communicate outwardly on behalf of the board without anyone knowing what we're talking about, but if I responded to that email before bringing it up at a

meeting and CC'd you all, it could be conveyed as a illegal meeting. So, more or less, if you all put a plaque on the wall to replace your broken plaque, it's no skin off of my nose from the select board standpoint or the town. If you choose to go the route of changing a building name, then there would be more of a um of a process that need to be followed, but I think they mostly just want to know if they're allowed to put the plaque up cuz they weren't sure if they asked last time, which they they did. So, anyone see any issue with that? So, this building was dedicated to

Yes, so the corporation dedicated the building to the previous chief. And they've had some issues with someone who vandalized the sign. Um They want to put it back up. They want to put up a new sign and then someone said, "Wait, do we have to ask the select board?" And I just happened to be at the meeting cuz I'm a member and I said, "I don't think you guys asked us last time. I don't know. I'll double check." I did some digging. Last time they just told us we dedicated it and since they are not trying to change the name, they don't have to ask us. If they wanted to change the name, I think that would actually go to a town we would bring that to a town meeting, so I'm pretty much responding to them, "Continue as usual. There's no impact. We don't pay any for anything. We don't have any fiscal responsibility there. All do what you want." So,

Rebecca. John. All right. Do I have a motion to approve the consent agenda? So moved. Uh do I have a second? Second. Given to John. All one. Any questions? All in favor? Any opposition? I'm seeing none. Sorry. Um Real quick, one thing I was going to say is the budget committee has decided to host their meetings at the Eureka Center rather than here. Um and traditionally we have recorded those and had them live streamed. Um so, I don't know why they chose over there, but we will need those recorded or or announced as a public meeting. Um I think it would be beneficial for them to be recorded, but that adds an an added um layer for

Why can't they do it here? philosophical disagreement about using this space for meetings and so they're choosing to not use the space for meetings. Okay. Uh but those have to be open to the public because it's a public meeting. And so um much like our meetings and so if we don't we need to develop a plan for how they get recorded. Has any Have any of them reached out to you all about that? And and I would agree I mean I personally think that all conservation uh solid waste to they should all be recorded. Yeah.

that is a burden on Devon or whoever setting it up either here or you know get something set up because But at least select board, budget committee, planning board, and appeals, those are the big ones, you know, that need to be referenced.

there others are doing things, you know, we've got the open space Yeah. thing we had, you know, solid waste not that they're not doing anything right or whatever, but I just think they should you know should be recorded.

Yeah. Or something or What would the process look like to get them recorded over there? Well, remember when we had to quickly move over there. Yeah. Um so the camera and the laptop Mhm. and that microphone would have to go over there. The only thing that worries us about that is it's not really a secure space, so

Mhm. I mean I'm sure you don't want Yeah. staff member to stay 3 4 hours each meeting, so Yeah, and the reason I bring it up is cuz I saw on the calendar they're meeting twice before we give them the final budget. So they're meeting on Monday and then meeting the following Monday. And so they're starting the meeting process. Um Could we just ask them to meet here until there is a resolution to Eureka?

Is Is there an issue with them meeting here Monday? You I You might want to ask Chief. I didn't know. Thursdays are training, so schedule is bumped up for stuff. Yeah, Thursdays is when they use this space for training for the fire department, so they're usually open Monday and no one else uses it.

planning board because they're a Wednesday unless they've got something special. Yeah, okay. So um It's March 30th. Is yeah. If folks are not opposed, I could send an email to the budget committee saying that we'll need them to meet here for recording purposes until we can figure out a plan over there because of secure space and stuff like that. Do people take issue with that? It's hard, Joe, because they're elected. So they Right.

really They're not appointed, so it's I don't know what the process here is because they're elected. And so if they said, "Oh, well, we're going to have a public meeting, but we want to do it someplace that's not as accessible for recording and stuff like that, where where where is our role here? I don't know. That's what's tricky about our elected committee. I mean, to be fair, too, they're not following rules cuz they're having a illegal meeting in the parking lot right now, so

are meeting And do we like we I mean it's it's a it's a huge deal. I mean it's it's not You need minutes from the meeting, but I don't I do you think about you go over with like I don't think You can't illegally record the meeting. You don't want to record it, but you don't have to record it, but You don't have to record it. I think you do need minutes from the meeting. But I think it should come as a request to do it because I'll tell you I'm not here on the 30th, so I can't go. I won't be here anyway, no. Uh so I'd be curious to see what they have to say because I agree or disagree, I think it's insightful what other people think. Um Uh so I I would phrase it as a request and and state the reason why to do that. Yeah. I mean, because in the past they haven't taken meeting minutes because they've recorded it, and so um I don't know if they would be having someone take minutes for them. I think they used to. I'm trying to like

Jill used to do it, right? Jill Gaston. Yeah, I got some for Milton in the past, too. Milton something like Yeah. But I also think it's worth asking if they want to do that tomorrow. Yeah. I I I really like to see us stream you know That's I mean, that's why everything else that needs to be streamed happens here, you know. Well, I mean like conservation commission had the open space thing and I don't want to drag this out, but it wasn't streamed, but it had It's going to have a major impact on our citizens, so I just would like to see everything Yeah. and not just because I'd rather sit at home with beverage of my choice, but uh No, I think it's I mean I think especially things that have a fiscal note or or an impact on permits, it's huge, you know. Um because it people need to be able to review and understand what was said, you know. Um so I'll send out the recommenda- I'll send out the ask.

And if the response is no I don't know if we can figure out a way to get it recorded over there. Um I maybe go with my phone. That Oh, sorry. And the other thing, too, I wanted to say is um we don't have a formal process in their meetings. If I was here next week, I would attend just to watch. Um but just a reminder for each one of us, if they're asking questions while they're there and saying, "Oh, actually there's a board member here. Can you answer this question?" It's really important that we don't delve into policy questions. So if they're asking, "Are you all meeting on Tuesday or something like that?" we can answer that. Um but especially if we have a not a great recording system um we're not there to speak on policy as individuals board members. We're just there to observe. And so like if I was here, I'd just go watch like I do most of their meetings. Um but just a reminder for everyone, so

Not that I don't Not that I have any concerns. It probably can go without being said. Uh anyways, bunch of meetings this upcoming. I'm not going to read them all off. Uh April 15th is a due date for the second tax payment. And we will be here again on April 14th for another budget meeting and we will have the budget committee there as well. Um I think that also covers upcoming select board discussions, Eureka Center and um audit coming up. Audit being next meeting. And uh Gazebo. Gazebo, sorry. That's the word I was looking for. Gazebo coming up shortly after that. Uh any executive session needed? Seeing none, motion to adjourn. So moved. Josh. John. All in favor? Any opposition? Seeing none. Passes unanimously.

Just so you know, Joe. Oh, wait.