TranscriptSelect Board Meeting ~ January 23, 2024

order the Durham select board meeting here on 12324 we [Music] okay let's see we have any amendments to the agenda this [Music] evening okay public comments all right we'll move right into Old business and uh first up 2024 budget

article I'm looking for information from you folks on what you recommend I will go over some changes in the budget okay what happened so you're aware of them talk about uh last time so we on page two of full state revenue sharing line 13 6300 see that that's changed to

see in the budget you got tonight okay all right another [Music] change that you will see is page 9 39 7240 that 20,000 has changed to 18650 can you rep that page yeah 9 of 15 39 7240 Animal Control yeah that is now 18 650 okay

to get the Union Church money up to 31,000 we had to add 9,543 making line 99 8500 under other Finance uses that goes from 457 293 to 466 since the last time a look at this any question any further I new revenue and and the changes we now at uh using um fund balance of 445,000

brings you to the zero tax increase 445 that's going to be yeah upped does that also then change the calculation on the front yeah I did okay I didn't that was like Auto going to correct that number on the front page yeah it was $500,000 last week or last last meeting with that number so it went from 500,000 to 445 so it actually went down because Revenue sharing went up okay

going to go like article by article and talk about if we want to like add or change or how how do you proceive this far as the Articles go [Music] article boiler play at this point comme and then create the Articles and vot on the Articles Arles are

and just and then like does anybody have any changes and go Department Department you can either do that or yeah if anybody has any Chang that's yeah I just didn't know like I have changes when we get like further down so I didn't know if you wanted to like start with Administration and then if nobody has any changes I can I can run through it real quick if you want start you said that's traditionally how we in the past right with these ones here yeah yeah from page six on facilate typically go by

about on page six which is the administration really I don't there's really nothing on on this just just other than the that we're going to recommend for the administration budget to the budget that's 22235 yeah so my my only um thing about

this is that when we we're talking about um the capital accounts and that we had the municipal if we were doing if we get to the point we're going to do the level funding situation right and when I asked about the roof the fire department that wasn't in the fire department thing that was in the municipal buildings account so when I'm looking at this this is the municipal buildings in the operating budget right but the maintenance items for the fire department and for Public Works are still in their operating budgets and so I'm I'm just wondering if those maintenance things for the building should really be in this section that those numbers should be added here because that's a municipal building expense versus a department expense if we're going to do the operating budget the same way that we're doing the capital budget yeah I mean only because you mentioned the roof so for example like if it's just

maintenance it would be one but if it was a capital like you're putting that would Capital expend sometimes that's sometimes where the confusion May Li that's what you're thinking so if you just flip really quick just to use it as a reference point page 9 of 15 line 30 7253 it says

building repairs and maintenance and so in my mind if we're going to try to move this to municipal buildings that that line for me would live over here under municipal buildings and maybe Jerry has input about that well these maintenance are just low cost maintenance stuff you need to replace a lock on a door or you want to paint out a room these aren't Capital mnes no no I didn't I wasn't suggesting they were Capital I'm just saying because it's Building Maintenance and we have a category that we're moving to called municipal buildings if if that should live over there the municipal buildings is just the operating of those municipal buildings lights electricity basic maintenance not Capital expenditures on those so really neither of these items in have to do with

capital expenditure no no I was just using it as a reference point that if we we're going to fund the capital accounts that way and the building expenses were going to be in the municipal building and not part of the fire department when we get into the operating budget if we're talking about building repairs for the fire department the fire department building is a municipal building and so and I was saying that perhaps that M should be added over here instead but if people don't agree that's completely fine I was just trying to be like apples to apples I don't think I necessarily disagree I think I think what you're saying anything that's going to be for repairs and maintenance combine all the buildings in to in one and it's all going to one heading under the under the original versus let say for lack of other words classification throughout the throughout the town of a specific building say I don't have a problem that

either way these municipal buildings in this categor is everybody accepted the major departments Administration Public Works and fire yeah the only reason why I brought it up was because there wasn't a building and repair line in the administration budget and so I assume that it was living in this budget right so when we want to just for an example when we want to replace a toilet we didn't have a line to do that so you wouldn't put that in capital right so all your building need a little bit of Maintenance that's not necessarily Capital so where we in here is for where's the

saying Heather um you know what it says I think it says the buildings the plural part you took the plural part off that might work too because then you're talking about fire building Public Works I guess it's something to consider um I'm not hard over either way

but I see what you're saying you you could put it in one line for all the that the municipal buildings is for everything but Fire Department Public Works right you you got the Gazebo you used to have the union shirt rather than having a single account for all of those you put them in the MP yeah I see that too or no however you want to do it this is how I would

that I think I me I could go either way it's really no but if it makes it easier from administrative purpose and for your management perspective it's easier for billing coding and that sort of it down right okay so just one more

clarifying question then about this there is no building and repair line in administration that's that's that's why I'm bringing it up that can I clarify so your question is why would you remove the building building maintenance from Administration which lives in town hall but not remove Building Maintenance from every put the building maintenance for administration into the municipal building but not also put the rest of the municipal buildings in there because that's the only one that doesn't have its own mainten so it seems like you would either want to combine them all into one or put the M the town off offices

Building Maintenance and Repair back into Administration for just consistent across the all deps right either that consistent like that or consistent so that it matches the way that we're doing or what I assume we're going to do but we're not there yet it's fine we can move on I think it's a good question and I would just say like Jerry is there just for our edification is there a reason why it makes sense to take the Town Hall's maintenance and put it into municipal buildings other depart large departments into municipal buildings just curious say that one more time so is there a reason why the maintenance and repair for the town hall got pulled out of the administrative budget and put into municipal buildings while the other two large departments you know Public Works and the fire department didn't have their building moved into municipal buildings for made to repair purposes no it's just it's just the way the way it's

just the way it ended out yeah okay I just was curious yeah yeah I'm six in one H do in the other as long as we all understand okay go ahead yeah does that line include the $20,000 we need for the Eureka no we not I just got that information

conf all right anything else with municipal buildings so so if I'm understanding correctly that the administrative building is in this Municipal Building line because it doesn't have a building in repair in its own budget I would like to add $5,000 to that line so that there's $10,000 under building and repairs in case the administration off or the town office needs to do anything that that

that is not accounted for in its own budget the way it is in the fire department budget does that any sense well if it's not planned if it's if it's an emergency then then the board can can authorize it but if it's something like if you're planning on spending $10,000 you should really be as a capital request I mean my thought to what Heather's saying there though is emergencies cost more money now any sort of construction so if you're budgeting for 10,000 in case a $10,000 emergency comes up which could be you can spend that pretty you know pretty quickly we might as well budget for a little bit wiggle room there as opposed to trying to move it around later is that kind of what you're getting at yeah I just I know we had talked about like the fact that the Gazebo is like caution taped off and I see that alone eating up that $5,000 so there anything that does happen in the ad in the town office right that and I get it

have an emergency fund right but if we're trying to like budget right that's planned though that should be kind of spelled out like Hey we're going to we're going to spend it's going to approximately going to spend $3,000 approximately on thebo this year and that would be somewhat planned and you and incorporate that into the budget but if it's if it's emergencies monies you don't necessarily have to fall in line within that budget line item because you would be drawing it probably from the general fund or something that so everyone's comfortable with $5,000 for building and repairs all buildings in town and structures other than the fire department and public works because they that lives in their own budget I'll just say this is the same line that I pointed out last meeting that seemed low to me for maintenance especially knowing that it includes one of our three biggest buildings so I would advocate for

increasing that from a planning upping that by 25% I think I think we just talked about upping it and said name number right thought wrot alone wrot it's expensive yeah there's no question I wrote down 25% when we had that discover yeah I think from a budgetary standpoint I mean whether it's Jerry or maybe to speak to you know how they derive that number chares buildings saying if they feel comfortable with it then it's it's hard to you know they're the ones with with the knowledge on what builds the number we're just looking at a number yeah my thought on that is if they're feeling like oh I don't want to ask for too much our voice now is saying well we think that you could ask for a little bit more because we understand the cost of doing business never goes down you I can't speak for this year but they usually not too shy about asking for too much well it's a little different format this year

but I I would bring to your attention Gazo is going to need probably about $5,000 worth of work we're still working on getting numbers together but I've been told plan on you can easily count on that's going to be expensive and at the time you can decide whether you want to do it or not or replace it yeah so is that by that Russ is that new information that's coming to light or is that information that was prior to this budget I think is what we're all TR to figure out if it's if you're going to do if it's that much which I didn't know it was going to be that much there's money in the municipal capital reserve that we can use to do those types of bigger repairs I'm not trying to split hairs we can move on yeah I think I think it's a good point and so I think when we get to

the we get to the point I think jer's right now should come out of the right yeah change it sounds like we're not changing it is that a consensus I I would leave this and take the money for the Gazebo if it's a plan and we're expecting 5,000 then we authorize up to 5,000 for the rep of the the mpal building Reserve account or whatever it's called for repair to dis I mean I think one thing that might be good for further looking further down the line is to just look at what I don't know if you did this already but traditionally how much we've spent on these sorts of repairs and look at that as a function of what the total budget was so it's like oh that repair item is 1% of the annual budget and it usually cover or 0 1% and it usually covers and then just adopt that sort of approach I don't ever really remember seeing a building line

in the budget $1,000 when I started oh so you know so it's kind of new so we're just sort of like you got to do maintenance to the building so you put it down in there and put the 5,000 towards it like have to do something with that office we switching people around and and that's again these things hearing these things and I know like buildings that I've been responsible for replacing a door has turned into $6,000 before so those are sort of the it items that I think about from my experience and think that might as well go more than 5,000 but so just i'me with Heather on that one so I'm good so I mean Heather to make to keep it moving um you can easily make a motion that you want to increase that by five1 15,000 and put boat and we can

move I don't I don't I see the logic and what everybody say kind of discussing without a motion and we can add that line 27253 to the administration line and put 5,000 it's up to you add a buildings and maintenance to Administration or move the whole line no not move the whole line add the line add 7253 line to the

administration what you you applicating for okay all right I'll just make a motion I move that we move the building repairs maintenance line under municipal buildings to Administration and increase it to [Music] $110,000 second second for discussion if we're so is it second okay yeah we have

any discussion now yeah all right go ahead um I'm sorry I thought I was supposed to stay setting for discussion if I wanted to talk I didn't realize that had to be a break assant so if we move that to Administration I don't think we should move it I think we should add it I think it should live here and it should get added also because we still have building repairs and maintenance for Eureka for the Gazebo for runaround Pond

I think I think we need to have building repairs in the administration budget because that building is obviously getting buildings you know repairs and maintenance but this category there's still other Town buildings that will need repairs and maintenance I would accept a friendly motion to just say add change move to add okay everybody we now if we just changed it I'll just withdraw my motion to make it easier I move we add a line to Administration for buildings and repairs and add $5,000 second that would keep so in terms of discussion my motion the intent here is to keep the $5,000 in the municipal building under municipal building for building and repairs which includes everything that's not the

public works or the fire department but this would also add $5,000 to Administration for their town Office Buildings and repairs so they would have $5,000 budgeted for buildings and repairs and then the other buildings in the totality would have 5,000 does everyone understand my motion yes okay any further discussion all in

favor so that changes our Administration budg perfect thank you for sticking with me through that appreciate it all right next anything else on municipal buildings on page seven all right go to like this isn't about the number this is just about the name and I don't know how difficult it is to change but it going forward just for clarity sake if we could rename internet to service provider or Burgess or

however that do you know what I mean because that that that caught me off guard that's an expensive internet I don't know who it is but whatever yeah or or the service like internet service provide you know however that needs to get internet provider yeah there we go whatever however it is okay just so that that is a little bit clear other than that I'm fine with planning and

clarification question on planning en codes the increase and I I don't want to get into details of M or anything like that so I'm just going to say the increase for staff wages is a reflection of of a increase in hours for uh part-time yeah yes four hours

okay and yeah I just want to clarify increase in hours on an increase in rate right not an increas rate Jerry the the the planning codes the full-time staff wages that used to reside in the admin budget correct yes I think I'm fine with this but I just thank to just for a little bit of clarity and and um just just for General ease for when it comes time for when this is presented that if we have some type of notation of what that number was in fiscal year 2023 versus the budget for 2024 in line with

showing that's it just show that's all I'm looking for just so it looks like so we don't look like we're adding a $60,000 position we're just moving moving yeah so a little bit of italic wording or something of that nature just to give it a little Clarity we talked about that previously in this Bud we talked about that when you stop moving lines between departments it makes the department look like yeah there's a few examples of that yeah and I think this is like just a prime example just to show like hey we're just moving this particular uh wage over into

a more uh specific category versus having an in admin budget and just it just gives a little light and Clarity to when people look at up I right to fight and the town's always going to have animal control yes so rather than having that all by itself I would recommend that we just move that right into the admin administration because it's a contract it's not really long and fire it's not they put it there because typically they're in the law enforcement safety side of the house but we don't have that so give you a little history we put it there because we weren't always contract we used to have like a loc the town and then it became such a headache when servic started

too it's not going to change any of the number it won't change the administration line we'll leave it the way it is but I Rec other Public Safety we just talked about Animal Control Public being its own thing what I would recommend here is that you pull bulky waste out always have that being article ask people if they want but actually make your Solid Waste part of the uh Public Works budget yeah we

talked about this last time because if we sign a fiveyear contract we're then asking every year can we pay a contract we out to and with tipping fees and you just don't know where they're going to go if you have a if you have 350 and we go over by a th000 now you're either asking for it again at the next town meeting or do a special town meeting but the Public Works budget may they always have a little left over so if it's over it can get C what you want to try to do you are saying P bulky waste out of that so that it still gets voted exactly unless you I'm thinking that's what you want to do we have the past whether it's been a separate line item or not it's always been a separate article not sure that you have to P out where you have it here Sol it would it would remain the hauling tags we oh I just saw we went to the next line he's trying to pull it into public work which is why we were still on

public works and he's bringing in that solid into there tags anding ahead I had nothing to say on that one I was going to I had some couple questions on public works but as far as the public I would I'd add since I would add I I think trash always should be separate because it's such a massive variable every year that if you categorizing it into somebody's budget I think it should be its own separate indate that's just my personal so what if you still have stuff about Public Works is it okay if we go back up yeah let's talk about way I have some questions around solid was thing but I don't want to move on to that let's finish with public work and we'll

just I just needed a refresher for for example um uh the electricity actual 9,000 budget this year was 8,000 but fiscal year 2022 was 164 Bud 2500 I'm just the numbers just not translate what am I missing there well I don't know what went on in 22 C and all that stuff but we did the ma this year for the electricity for public works and it was just a little bit um well there it is there's 9,000 52 but some of this may have not been coded so what I had staff do was take Public Works electricity bill add up this years total and it was just under 8,000 so I made 8,000 did Public Works get their like was that one

and then I had um this is trival money but the flagging service that's that's been in there a couple years now and for the last few years we Haven made able to get flaggers is that are we are we going on the expectation again this year we're going to be able to get them might not be able to get them well that's I cut that you'll see no B was in there just cut it okay you're right you did cut it I saw that it was I misinterpreted that and so when you ask a question or follow up that when you have to get flaggers is that and you're paying them is that coming out of contracted services or is that wage it like where you can't get them in this year the price for them is so exorbitant that I would just use my own people okay thank you before they used to be cheap enough it was it was worthwhile to have that done so we could keep working but now it's just it's it's such an exolent amount that I couldn't

justify it so okay thank you um then the other one that I had and anybody can please feel me off here I just I get a little worried on the equipments and repairs for PW only because we've seen in the past that can add up very quick and this is a much lower number than I've seen in years past and I just want to know I know you got some new equipment and things of that nature I'll explain to you that not accurate what Jer wanted to do is break it into two parts so if you look a little bit further down you'll see equipment repair and you'll see Jerry wanted to break it down between vehicle maintenance and equipment repair so there's two of them the total 120 yeah I see that so we just kind of broke them apart and said okay I think those are a good questions because that's the whole thing that we move things around a little bit Yeah I think that's fair so if we could just do like I said on the

last one just a couple italics there so people can see because at first it looks like whoa it just looks like a either a mistake or under budgeting or just I'd rather alleviate a lot of that 111 up to 120 130 right yeah yeah I just

think like say like there's just a tal talized text that might just say previously combined with this or that and the reason why did that and I've seen it in other Municipal budg you got vehicles and you got equipment completely two different oh yeah I think it's a great idea yeah no I got no issue with that it makes sense because completely different assets I guess and my last thing and I promise this my last thing is the um the liquid deicer in the winter sand we have a budget in there of 16 liquid deicer and winter sand of seven where did the year prior years go to because we've always purchased those yep so we had liquid D winter s before absolutely always have that's what I'm saying like so where are we at what is this year looking like I don't recall what they were in years past it bece reference oh there's no number there oh I see it's the same thing that's happening with the other thing they're

breaking it out so they can keep better track of it it it lived I asked this question the last time it lived in the other number and they've differentiated it so that they can keep better track number it was living in the 146 no they actually were always separate on the trio report you would see and I think they pretty much those same numbers last year we used a trio I don't know what would com I only ask cuz I I'm not sure what you would combine it with because those those are winter maintenance items that are that can be let's say flexible as far as State Statute goes versus combining it with something that potentially may not be flexible no they were always uh it's pretty much the same oh but you know but he didn't put the numbers in there I see I see and I don't have that I'll get it to your hand just a second so that's that's all I got thank you for the

maintenance did you have it all like combined s I'll find Salt Sands those were all separate blades salt sand de and Blades I thought SE Jerry one other thing that you had said last meeting was that um you had broken out Crack ceiling and did that Road painting and striping and so that might be another place to put an aster that people recognize that those numbers are coming out of Paving that was all his Paving that was the original Paving that that was broken down yes yeah that's probably just an oversight I think he just didn't put

this first year breaking things up a little bit like that looking can we have a board conversation about um the solid waste in the contract in the situation with that yeah do we have anything else on public he's looking up right now well I ask personally I think I asked enough anybody else in public work um go back to Public Works in a second solid lease so when if we're

talking about whether or not we're going to add that to the operational budget because it's a five cont contract and every year I understand Jerry's point that every year we go to the town meeting and we have to ask every year

to fund that year of that we're doing a fiveyear contract and so I wonder if when we put the question out I went back and I looked at the way that some I can't remember what what the example was but it it basically showed we were maybe it was Bond a bond for real showed we're we're doing this and it's this is the schedule right and so I wonder when we ask the question this year um whe whatever the outcome is of

where this falls in the budget that we when we sign the contract we're signing a fiveyear contract and to make sure that the town understands we're signing a fiveyear contract we I mean I don't know what happens if in two years we decide we don't want to be part of the contract anymore I mean to me a contract is a contract and you fulfill so I in my mind if we are signing a 5year contract the town needs to vote to

to sign on to that fiveyear contract it to in my mind it's not one year this is like a Debt Service in my mind yeah I don't I don't see any reason why we can't do that you know making everybody understand that this is a fiveyear contract we're signing up for um you know along with the c we've got a committee together for a long term longer term plan after that to to take its place later um and then yes as this as the second third and fourth year fifth year come that just becomes a line item like like any other normal warrant

article that that just extends our of like the example you make The Debt Service payment or Bond payments we could I don't see why that can't happen on a on a yearly basis after that so so to Rich's point just so understand understand it sounds like what you're saying though is like yeah we have a 5-year contract but they're telling you this is what your per ton is going to be or whatever and that could vary year to year and so that's is that kind of why it's been put on before because we knew that there was some variability there um but at the end of the day if that year three we vote and say no it's just been getting too expensive I don't want to do that anymore we still owe them the next two years so it's like what happens in the scenario that the town votes know you can't pay the contract year three it doesn't it's not like we can't pay the contract I think I think it the board in itself is able to um

enter into this contract you're IL legally able to do that um one of the Articles that'll be in the town warrant is for to have the town pay its existing debts and services and so forth whatever that whatever that wording is and that kind of falls under that that makes sense yeah I get that so wouldn't we then just move the hauling tags into public works because that's an existing Debt Service and then the bulky waste is the kind of thing we could vote on annually to decide whether we want or not you could always you could always separate that I don't I don't I I think the only thing that you really is to be separated in my opinion is is probably just the L you waste the tags I don't if you're going to do anything in the tags just to get rid of them only because and I say that and I'm not saying that just to be you know off the reils here um most people when they allocate their trash in a in a 40 yard bin or whatever it might

be is not allocating it on 20 PBS they're they're feeling they're B and they're taking it out there so you really don't know the weight limit it's definitely not 20 lb per tag or whatever it is 40 or 40 exactly yeah you know what I'm saying like turkey those bags are a lot heavier than your average week after Christmas those bags so I mean I the money in in the expense I just crushed my bag now I got like 12 well of course you do but that's what I'm saying the money in the expense that you allocate towards printing tags and all that stuff does it really I think it I think I don't think you can really put a number to it in F because nobody really knows there's really no way to do it all I know is we're signing a contract based on x amount of weight that we got rid of last year irregardless of how many tags you but the number that they base it on is what we away as a time yeah I just don't we don't vote on any other it's not like

we vote on a 5year lease on year three to make the payment on the lease so I just think it makes sense like Jerry was suggesting to maybe move this into a part of the budget that's just kind of more of a fixed cost even though it is slightly variable and then just keep P keep waste as the and solid waste as a thing we vote

to vote on paying a bill that you have to pay you know yeah and the same thing I I I could make that argument with the with the same thing with buy waste we we tried the no bu was one year and the town was very now granted the town changes every year but I don't see a change in that dramatically in the next course of two3 but the town was very lack of better a word steadfast in their decision that they want bulky waste it was there really wasn't any like they were more upset than they were that it was gone that they pay for so that seems to be trash oky waste and trash and from what I've seen and heard and comments that have come in over the years is that's really not negotiable to the town's people at this point in time so can we leave it in the just I'm fine with that yeah we have to move make a motion to move it to the operating B ways too um no so you are you going to vote on VY waste every

year you you not so many complaints that here got voted down we got so many complaints we got so many calls and then people came just to voted in so I think that gave you your answer if you don't some of that bulky ways C be picking up on the side of how much bulky weighs like $1,000 yeah I remember the year we got rid of it the next year it was six mattresses now run around there's you know so I mean I'm fine with I I'll move to and I'm the one that's going to get yelled at I'll make a motion to move solid waste into the operating budget that Jerry

know this bulky waste we're just making well not even bulky waste it changes the Public Works number to adding that oh no total Public Works no it doesn't you're right Josh that's right so our recommendation for total Public Works is the 1.8 million unless if we're not changing anything else and that becomes part of but by moving it we would be removing the vote on the bulky Way St correct no still it still comes in you

still you still have to vote on the Public Works budget right right but you're not voting on bulky way separately we've always the last three years we've had the separately what it does that we you vote on separately no matter where doesn't matter and in this document which is created just if we don't need to vote we can save our time and just let Jerry do it I'm fine with that can I I'm just trying to keep the wheel one point about this is that when we get to the public when we get to the town meeting the article will say total public it'll say Public Works budget right and that's not a that number can be moved depending on the way that it's worded to go up or down right um and so with bulky waste

not living there that that that allows that number to be changed in a different way do you see what I'm saying because people don't have this level of detail to look at they get just the one right and they're just saying by voting on Public Works you're including that and I'm in favor of it all living together in one thing I'm just saying that's the difference between pulling it out versus not pulling it out is that you don't have the ability to to change that one right because it goes as one entity I I don't necessarily disagree with other than the fact I think I think the lump it into public works total overall budget is not necessarily the correct thing to do I think it should but that's what we're doing I know I think it should I think it should live on its own and it should be and it should be transparent the town public works because there's people out there that are scrutinize all public works and now

you're going to you're going to increase their number where this is going to show a separate number itemized so it's not public work so there's no you know K's budget went off ex because we added it in there so you suggesting to pull solid W out of public I be own separate can I ask Jerry a question is that fine Jerry is your concern around this around the fact that it's a fiveyear contract and if we don't have it as part of the operating budget there is the potential for people to vote it down and we signed the five your contract my my that's one concern the other concern is that you go we go end up going over the solid waste budget and when I got here in 22 that seemed to be the case okay but but then we didn't really know until we got the audit back and it wasn't the case so like I said to avoid the situation where we have to go back and ask for more money because we went over that years well yeah but I I

wouldn't want to hit Calvin's budget up because we're over waste either like I wouldn't want him to have to that so if you put it in his line item and then you go over you're basically saying you got to take it out of his out of his budget to cover it rather than come back to the town and say guess what you threw out too much Crow it's really what it comes down to I'd rather not I'd rather keep it separate and and put it down on its own line item and whether we separate bulky waste or not I I'm in agreement we bulky waste in I like bulky waste but that's my personal opinion but um you know leaving that um as part of the overall plan think everybody uses it it is very useful saves Calvin money in the long run so leaving it like Calvin's budget would be up 8.6 putting in there he'd only be at 5.5 yep well he'd be your your 1.

1454 million for Calvin would be his total right yeah that's up he's up 8.6 with just that right you add solid was to because it's down it's now 5.5% how does that make I don't I don't understand how that comes how does that work how do you how do you go from 8% by adding $365,000 on or something and take it down you can't go you can't go backwards there well 8.6 minus 5.3 is well I get

that yeah but that's that's 5.3% of a much smaller right amount yeah so yeah it doesn't add that way his budget and that's why I'd like to trans Arcy yeah now we see that public works it's separate entity from the trash is up a total overall 8.6 annually and it's not because of bulky waste and it's not because of whatever other thing happened to Public Works it's just they're up they're at an 8.6 could be labor could be Healthcare I'm not I'm not whatever but this just gives people a little bit more transparency and it breaks out the numbers so we're not convoluting numbers and it causes it just it's just too hard to fall I think that still raises the previous point that the solid waste is a fiveyear contract we're voting on whether we want to continue contct no but what what are we just coming out of a threee one year extension it was a three year with a one a three year with a one that's what I'm

saying we we've done a threee before the difference between a three year and five year I mean it's contract's a contract for the town right but it just seems kind of silly to vote to pay your lease every year when you have to pay it like if you have to pay your fiveyear if every year you have to pay the contract why are we voting year three hey do we still pay our fixed bills this year can I speak to this point of having end up our while sorry so I think I would like to propose a happy medium of I understand the point of view of keeping it separate but I do recognize Jerry's concern and and share it around a 5year contract and going to the voters year after year to approve Something That We're part of and so back to the very first thing that opened up the the conversation I think that when we make our warrant article we need to establish that while we only have the cost for this year going forward that the town

understands we're voting for a fiveyear contract that their vote to approve this is to approve a five-year contract and then the amount goes on the warrant and if people want to keep it separate so that it's you know very distinguish between the public works department budget and solid waste that's fine but I think you know to speak to Jerry's point that to go back year after year and ask for permission again after we're signing a fiveyear contract that that doesn't make a lot of sense that feels like a debt payment I think I think I'm there I I agree I think we all agree on that but moving it into public works isn't solv yeah I think it's a separate

making withraw my motion talking about for a while June 30 I guess I don't I don't really personally understand the difference I understand it from a from a length of time standpoint for entering into a contract versus three years versus five years well we didn't get to choose the three they said they're only offering a fiveyear contract right and that was the same time what what happened when we did the 3E too they said we're only offering a threee and we'll get another option so my guess is next year if you know if there's more um they need more Capital only offering lifetime yeah they might they might offer you the next time might be a seveny year and then after that might be a 10 year I mean you just never know but I mean the board has the ability to function on the town and take on this debt if they think it's in the best interest and overall the town is going to vote on it um it's been pretty

clear over the years that this is not necessarily A oneyear oper for presentation to the town at the town meeting and if you're not there it's your fault if you're there and you don't get it you have an opportunity to ask

of time on things that are made clear at the town meeting so how do we address J's conc of the voting to enter those fiveyear contract and voting to pay our bill every year it gets presented at the next time meeting as this is a bill we have and there's no option but to pay it will we face the consequences from the contract whatever and and and and so you voted on it we signed it because this is our only option it's no different than entering into a 15year Debt Service to buy a public works anything that I don't see we're still voting every year to pay the to pay the debt right it's just broken out and Sh see by year exactly right just like I wouldn't want the Public Works building the the capital purchase of the building for say or a truck in every Year's budget I I'd rather see it separate and that's that's what this would do this would put it every year in somebody's budget I just don't see do that just keep it

that's okay I also think that's a decision to doesn't matter it just if you got a fiveyear contract and you're going to vote on it every year that's fine if that's what you're doing for transparency wise it just didn't just didn't make a lot of sense I mean it's smaller than Calvin's Paving line and we don't vote on what roads Paving every year so you know what difference does it make right I mean it's the same it's the same thing so if you want to vote

is we don't have to pay rules every year where we do have to have trash right we have to choose to we don't I think it's pretty obvious that we're going to have to have trash year Road I can tell many years roads around so our recommendation for the public works budget is the 1.4 number that we see4 54228 and then and pull Solid Waste out

separately right but as one entity at 364 yep one entity at 36 board the consensus is that we want bulky ways to live in that same line as one article I think it just be an article and you put both those numbers in the article and if somebody wants to say let's alleviate that make they got the guts and they think they can get the the hands to go up so we just

budget by this ration he went from a 5.5 now he's up to an 8.8 okay good everybody yeah I think I'm good okay all right page 12 uh culture and recreation parks and recreation let's see here that's going away right yeah this is all that's allone

we got supplement yes you did so you'll have to look at that that not listed on that so we're just looking at the 16,900 unless you want to increase the general assistance that's always been 600 I there sorry I didn't follow you so

what so under this is community services and this is this is the detail this detailed information does not include general assistance which is it's on line item there is it just breaking that 16,100 you, yeah thank you that's what I was men and so just for my clarification when we accept this we're saying that we're earmarking that 161 for the following dur baseball Freeport scholarship snowmill club and vet generator but the town is only voting on

the this number itself so it's not like the town is g to sit there and V we do want so this is right now the could floor and say I want to remove turn 16100 into you know 1,500 because I want to remove snowmobile club okay so that will be the supplement will be provided on should be and the way the article is worded is what allows people to make a motion on the to change the dollar so if this board agrees that that should in fact be the case then that we would Bo the article appropriately that people would be able to change it based on those figures and not just the total number do we actually put the values in there in the article it would be like I can't think of whats were it used to donate to different organizations it showed like $500 I don't remember what it is so I think there was always a detailed explanation of what that

167 number based on this detail that we have here yeah I'm good with that any other questions okay come up with church that church and then vot is whether or not to allocate so we would vote to raise that in the church account and then also to right what I was getting at this depending on how we as a board saw that for example if we say this passes straight face test to this is going to look for public use right if we can't come up with that collectively then we could put it in this as a Dom because it's going to be hard straight face at least in my opinion to say a building with no parking a building with no egresses or not enough erress a building without Water and Sewer Etc is going to be for public use and that money can be based on Jack's interpretation of the law so we might have to incorporate this which I think is the cleaner way to so you're saying take it out of the $10,000 transfer whatever that page was it's

turning it from the cap it's turning it into a donation it's turning it into a donation rather than a public service a money going towards a public service I don't I don't think this year so instead of having come out of additional use of fund balance take the 10 out of there and put it over here I think I think you will be I think in my opinion you'll be asking to put that back into the general and then ask for a donation under this category to give to them upon them accept them because based on Jack's interpretation I don't see how you meet public criteria with that specific building if we be so can I just extend this a little bit further if we're making recommendations to the budget committee and and this is the first time that we've talked about this way right that

um if we were going to go that route which this is a bigger conversation absolutely right then we're making a this recommendation on this but could completely change that and I know we get one more shot at the budget but I also think there's something where if you make a substantial change it then has to also get kicked back to them right so I just want to make sure that we're allocating time for that that's all fine and good I I don't want to go past this quickly and then screw up the timeline to miss being able to come back and address that if this is the way that people think that we should handle this yeah it's just my the way I read dra and when I read this it's just for me based on his interpretation and I'm I'm my buddy here but it would be

hard to pass that that's going to be a public that money for public use but it's very say we're doing it as a donation if we put it back into the general fund and then we give it I think it's cleaner and I think it's it's in the quick question here are we put the for the horse though I think we got to kind of we're going to be a to have another crack for the budget if we talk about

the chch the UN church so so are you making a motion that we move that now into the donation account no that's not what I said I what I'm saying is I just want to I like I said I'd like to just make a note that I think we should think about that when as we progress forward that that number also might be good because of the fact of the way Jack outlined how those monies have to be spent yeah yeah I I follow you yeah I think that this location would be a cleaner approach more legal approach than the other one changes the bar that yes are you catching all of that so you can like have that conversation with the budget commit no you're going to explain

okay um okay so we're still at 167 because we're not doing any of that right now but I do think that was an and that's not an option so we just that's our our number well expenditures zero Deb services that is what it is

know those numbers and that's kind of lens discussion that was so go ahead I was just say if we're done with that that I would go back to the fund balance and recommend that we added the $5,000 maintenance we includ an additional 5,000 to 445 allocated out of the fund balance to make that a total of 4,000 4 450,000 uh so that we continue to keep the uh the budget I agree with that

where it says additions to use of fund balance and the current number is 445,000 we're recommended to change that to 450,000 to reflect the increase in the maintenance 5,000 so one other so here we have trans well we're going to talk about this right this transfers out number that number is reflective of capital corre okay so we're not going to talk about that number yet because we have to go through all of that we haven't done that yet and then we'll come back and talk about that as a number okay but that's what this number represents and we're going to talk about that now I'm assuming I'm not I'm not saying that number represents how you cover the capital or okay so that number we don't need to know discuss about it thank you right now based on what you have that go up by 5000 we just

okay capital reserve requests so yeah we diving right into the details now of other Public Works equipment conversation about the fire department giving Public Works a trailer is that am I remembering that accurately yes and so small a small smaller trailer it's not a a large equipment trailer this this trailer here is a trailer that hauls around an excavator oh oh I'm sorry okay thank you two different types of I understand now thank you I wasn't to different world of trailers okay got

okay he what just reading um I I would like to hear before we go to have a real discussion on this um if there's a need for well let me rephrase that there is a need for repairs at the Eureka Center and if Calvin is saying there's about $25,000 does that include um the the budget has the 9,130

out of the ARA funds is that over and above is that and that based on the discussion I had earlier with Jerry it sounded like that was for um the uh the propane heaters could be yeah it's 9,000 whatever that number is 13 13 could go close Center there's a lot more need in the AR Cent 9,000 so it can go toward and and so is that are those funds the additional funds that are going to be

those indicated in this budget at all or those new numbers that's new to us tonight that's something that we should consider and since I see you shaking your head I'm going to assume it's new numbers and so I'm going to ask do those numbers indicate safety concerns or ways for us to save money

on that building over the long so year after year they ask for money to fix the doors that put money in there it's on other things so I'm not sure the balance is what 2700 in the E fund I it's right hold on the last page your budget uh 3719 and so uh I've been working on the doors getting the numbers the number was staggering to me so I had to go back even yesterday over the numbers again and sure enough confirmed they are accurate to replace just the hardware on the doors the crash bars and the Locking mechanisms for the for being a public doen U is $9,300 just for the Hy the doors are 45

55 5500 for the doors and with how many doors three three so well two of them 4500 piece and one's a th000 so it's 5500 20 4500 for the two double doors th000 for the single door um up about 15 and then with labor to have them put in and unknowns like rotter that leaves you five grand a budget number for that's 20 just just give this and there were also Foundation or something issues as well all right foundation issues I have a report on that and I that's going to be a much bigger question the contractors is we could do nothing for three years or so and nothing's going to happen building is going so we could deal with that a bigger that's a much bigger picture but to get the doors done that are all root and not closing and one day the doors wide open because they're being held shut with wire and so the doors need to be done that's 20 um the uh

heat estimate to replace the heater last year the pipes froze because we have a heat pump that's the only source of heat there's nobody recommends having that as your only source of heat to be place the two heaters that are there um 70 79

eight gr so that's total of 28 ,000 right and so how much is the estimate you got for the foundation well that's there there are many options on that but but well give me can you give me a Range I mean to fix the wall That's the repair what's there if you decide to go that route there's there's an option of putting a new 4 foot Foundation behind the building and sliding it onto a solid complete Foundation where is what we have now where a combination of posts and stones and partial basement up the middle I I just I I'll tell you what I'm looking for is is if this is a two or three year something that needs to happen the next few years okay which it sounds like it is because it's safety issue I don't want us to come back in two years and say we need $100,000 or else we're going to shut this building down because I don't it's not used every day but it's it's used um and and so I that's

something that needs to happen then I think there needs to be some Reserve something added to that Reserve account and I think it needs to happen and I think right now I will tell you you know I think that 28,000 needs to be set aside um because that's well it it it could be safety issues you know with the frozen pipes the doors and all of that I think that's important and and and and it needs he and I think that building needs to be used um and so what would be the what you know well probably a bigger discussion now but just just the number to fix the wall that's currently falling

in um and and there again there are many options One is using the existing Granite if the Conservation Commission or historical society wants to leave the original Gran look better than using blocks uh would be 20 grand fix that wall and use the existing Granite another option would be to repair it using concrete blocks would be 50 actually a little bit cheaper 15 grand or use concrete blocks along the 136 side wouldn't probably as F wouldn't wouldn't be as aesthetically pleasing for building in historical society U and then to regrout in in the Bas section of the building that has a basement there is just water between the stones and all the sand and gravel from outside pouring into the basement running down through the building that's $4,000 to regrout all of that with the proper concrete make that seal it off the uh

other option so you're looking at 20 and you're either looking at 24 or or or 19 so so I got I'm up to 50,000 the other option would be to put full Foundation behind the existing building and and Slide the building back and that's a different that's 245 for the foundation and 45 to move the building so if you wanted to go that route you'd be so the question is do we do we we fix the basement that's there and and not have on a solid permanent foundation parts of it are on posts parts of it are sitting on rocks parts of it so I guess that's a discussion the board would have to decide which way they want to go hang on second

previously that wasn't well received but as part of the historic historic commission's Miss mission is for them to has anybody from the town gone and say hey you you have an obligation to a for a building owner in this District to help look for funding has anybody done that and if not I think we we set some aside but I think that someone should do that as well I think Jessica had information about what or Jerry what Jos just asked the building isn't really in the historic district not under any hisorical thank you can I ask my yes thank you so I have a couple of things um on page s 15 I think when we had our last discussion electricity represented electricity for the eure center which the actual no no no no no no I there was something about the Heat and the propane when you're talking about replacing the heaters what are the heaters are they going to be propane heaters yes yes and we have no money in that line so if

that's something that we have to consider if we are going to have conversation about replacing the heaters and then we funded no propan okay and I think the electricity bill for the or was up substantially because the heat pumps aren't working properly or because there's that's the only heat source and so they're running like crazy is that correct yes and you're leaving them on 70 can you show me can you tell me where the electricity I'm trying to figure out

for eure in this Budget Building we're talking about where this stuff is going to come from can everybody go to 15 or 15 in our Recreation Reserve we have $23,000 $3,742 in our telecommunications Reserve we have are restricted correct am I using the right word those are restricted balance fund balances and they we would have to ask the town to vote to either spend or consolidate or move them we don't do this the way that we used to do this where we would apply the Telecommunications Reserve to the telecomunications budget same with the recreation Reserve we don't have a recreation thing anymore now we have Community Services right and so I would like for the board to consider pulling we would have to ask for a vote to do it go to town to ask for a vote pulling those two numbers and moving them to Eureka capital reserve to be able to

with a long-term plan maybe not a super longterm if like some of these things are emerging that doesn't change anything about the M rate tax you know none of that because that money is just sitting there right now in a way that we're not currently using it the way that we have in the past and so the could get fixed all of these things could happen and those money that money that the town's already voted for and exists in these accounts would then go into an account where we can use it versus just any

happened I was going to suggest that we set aside the $54,000 less than 9,000 uh $130 that's been set aside as as arpa funds um where are you seeing the arper fund number I don't see that the proposed where oh oh oh I'm sorry I'm sorry I was going off this proposed AR I didn't see that there okay thank you uh and and take that money I I was going to suggest from the reserve account um and which would put us back close to the 500,000 that we initially started with at our at at our last meeting uh because to me um this building has a lot more use for the town than the Union Church uh and as much as I would love to I I I can't justify spending this money on the union church I think it can be justified for you on this billing that is being used on a weekly basis um and and so that that would be

my recommendation uh is is to set aside essentially the 4 $45,000 to put into the Eureka uh capital reserve account and and get those repairs done as soon as possible because I also think they're going to go start going up every year we're look at an increase is that a motion sure I just want to make sure I'm following before we go there so offer left over at the end of this would be at least proposed be$ 44630 which would leave Zer which that's that's the total proposed arer usage for the three different projects which would leave zero in the ARA account um spending arpa down which is what it doesn't need to be spent but it needs to be allocated itn't need to be allocated I um and so I would I would take that 9,000 out of the 54 uh I you know I said I said 45 maybe 50 is a better number just to be save uh out of the reserve account uh to the Eureka capital reserve account and

um specifically allocated for those those projects that aren't in that 9,000 the budget by $50,000 to cover Eureka expenses with that money coming out of our coming out of our fund better well I I just don't know if there needs to be more discussion or what that's the motion I'll

because this has happened many times over the years just caution the board on allocating specific money for a specific year to get something done only need to be let down that you can't get it done whether it's because the resources of the Town contractors available to do it so when you earmark Harper funds I think you'd be better served if you take those arer funds reserve them and if you do get the project up and running just follow a special time meaning you utilize but if you want you ear mark

them I think they just have to be allocated once you allocate them or ear mark them it's allocated for something specific right and just be cautious because that's happened so many times the other the other problem with oper is you fund the whole project with it you can't just part project you can't fund it with another source so you get you know it BEC 60,000 instead of 50 then you can't just until I think that we're not as much of a concern here because if we earmark it for land use codification we already know that the person who came in said like they're booking out far in advance but it's earmarked and we've decided as a community that that's what we want it kind of gives us it's a little bit of the strength of it is rather than saying oh we allocated that for this but it took the person two years to get here we have to go back all that this is saying this has been allocated for that even if

it takes them two years to get here we've got that codification money set aside correct J what is the what is the time frame on the ARA that has to be spent not 26 26 yeah so it gives us two years thought right but we have to be allocated by this have to by

2024 terms of actually purchasing the dispatch stuff for the fire department that's a matter of making a purchase getting a contractor so if we allocate that's the lon share of the arpa funds right there um my only question about the Eureka upgrades is so the $99,000 9,130 which is Ure for the Eureka Center is for one particular task but to Joe's point you can't fund the arpa funds have to pay for something that's so so can you just pay for that one portion of that and then do the rest of the building I think you could do for example Kelvin said potentially he wants to put a secondary source of heat in there that's going to cost approximately $9,000 and you have whatever what was that was close toar that 9100 that secondary source of heat and only that second yeah that's fine yeah so I I understand your concern but I think that we're I you finding for a broad just a broad stroke on a building is what are my

concerns yeah I just want to clarify so of AR fund you can't use any other grant money but you could raise any money you want to help with spend with oper doesn't have to be like if you have a $115,000 you could use 9,000 to help pay for that as long as you're not using any other grant money for that project I didn't think that's how it was explaining I'm almost like pretty sure that's the case I don't recall it's it seems like it's been like then because if that were the case you'd have to have something specifically at project right down how often does that happen once you're saying makes sense CU if it's gr for money to Art but you're matching Federal money with Federal gr you can't match can't do that feds to feds you know in most cases but if we use it for the heat Source it this is all and then do it this way

yeah um I think it's better to sorry real quick I think it's better to allocate if arpa needs to be spent by 26 it's better to allocate it now before then try to wait do it at 25 and then I agree with that just specifically specifically for a specific task or upgrade I mean I know we're talking about the Eureka upgrades as a whole but if we're talking about AR that looks good to me can people chime in on thoughts about what I'm saying about the recreation reserve and the Telecommunications reserve and moving that into by vote at town meeting into the Eureka capital reserve so that when contractors are available and when those things could happen that money would be there and right away available so just to clarify you're ask you to do the same thing as Josh just populate that account

you just want to do it differently rather than taking it out of the fund balance reallocate existing money well it is technically in the fund balance it's just already in a restricted account versus raise the money to put into are you that number's not raised that number is transfer and this these aren't in the fund balance fun balance oh they're not they're not okay okay so to move to spend money out of a reserve account does the board have the ability to that's that's where I'm I'm more in favor of Josh's approach um because that keeps money in reserve accounts for for future needs and this is taking money out of the fund balance to make an improvement that I think as a lot of value for the community because the r Center is the place that gets used weekly you know use it use it using Recreation reserve and telecommunication Reserve when we don't we don't use that the way that we have always done that

that made those accounts exist to begin with so what used to happen is what the warrant article would say telecommunications budget $447,000 we were voting to transfer $47,000 out of the telecomunication Reserve to pay for the telecomunications budget we don't do that anymore so now we have this money that's sitting there that's not getting allocated to and so what I'm saying is transfer that money by vote into the r Center Reserve where it would get spent as needed for the building and there's nothing else in the community that we would use telecommunication Reserve funds for well we have it in the past and I'm not sure well I'm not saying what we have in the past I mean like what what's the opportunities the money's I don't want to say Bond paper but if the money's there and it doesn't require us to

Heather's right on on on a lot of that um but a large portion the telecommunication budget is derived from frch fees from cable provider I don't know how that transpires now that's about right right MIT is that your recollection yeah that's that's accumulation franch it was typically the accumulation of franchise Fe so we weren't really necessarily raising we were just utilizing the funds that we would get from whatever it is SS but it's in a restricted account so there's limitations as how it can be spent I don't know about I I couldn't answer that clearly I just know that it was always used for a lot of it was always used for our telecommunications budget and and funding that mhm I I can speak on that so the the the

definition that's word of telecommunication has broadened over the last half dozen years so telecommunication used to mean the equipment that we use to broadcast over our community Channel now it's been broaden so that it's it's the money is used for any way any ways that we communicate information to the town we can with cons telic so I guess what my point there to follow up and mil's point is if that's able to use for

that and we start talking about things like moving us out of that building into a space that money could be used to make maybe a space like this linked up for streaming for meetings and stuff like that I'm just asking I'm not saying I'm suggesting that we do that I'm just asking is are those things that that money can be used for cuz what I'm getting trying to get at Heather is that if we already have the money there and available and we have the opportunity to fund important repairs and improvements to a facility out of a fund balance I'd rather just take it out of a fund balance and keep that money there for something else especially because we are probably can find ways to improve the ways we communicate you know just my thought it's really just Revenue it's franchise fees Revenue so you just list it with all your other reeven and you have your Appropriations and it's just an easier way to do your budget rather

than because if you don't have all of it to fund then you got to go find another source and your article gets very confusing so you just so I think what we need to decide is if we want to do what Josh is suggesting and then determine how the funding gets there where the funding comes from in order to fund that line because what we're having a conversation about right now is like this money exists and the general fund money already exist and whether or not the fund balance already exists and and how we're going to fund the line I think we need to figure out if we want to fund the line and if we do then then isn't that what Jerry decides where it comes from like you tell us where we should have it come from if we want to fund that line we need to make a it or take it out so let's figure out first if we want to do it and then we can figure out where it's yeah I I think it's important to do the repairs of the

r center for the same reasons that Jos brought it's used frequently it's available to the public we want it to be easily accessible and when we're talking about spending some money I think that this is an investment into something that has a return for the community so that's why I think it's be important thing to

budget that's Josh's and now number was exactly $50,000 is it 50,000 including the N oh it would not include the nine because the N comes so 50 in addition to the N okay okay and that so so so just I just want to get to a total here the total we have to get to so $60,000 we have a motion on the table to um well wait a second hold on though because this is this lives on this line so we would be voting on the nine here so it's 50,000 because it already the nine already lives in this line but but we're putting we're putting um a budget

together for $6,000 where the money comes from well AR was a little bit different though cuz you're where saying we're going to add them yeah these are two separate votes it's and Josh was doing the math so it's like the one vote is to yes arpa funds the way as designated in this supplement and then the separate vote was to fund necessary repairs at eure they're both going to Eureka but they are distinct so it's a different vote and the reason Josh was asking about all the expenses was just to tap get a total and then say well we know of that total 9,000 of that is the heat which is funded El first that's where we came up with that 50 so they are separate VES I was just curious as to why you just if you just to add $60,000 to the

Eureka fund of which 9,000 x would come from arpa funds 25,000 would be raised and 25,000 to didn't we say that arpa has to be earmarked for specific yeah you can't put it in a reserve right it has to be e marked for to pay for this question yeah and I think when we go to the warrant we have to be asking to spend the AR yeah that's fine it's just it's two questions not one okay so 50 gets added to the 466 83

right and then this stays the same correct okay everybody it says 50 eure I'm on the same page I don't remember on Josh were you were you raising that were you just taking it out of the whole 50 out of taking it out transfer

balance back up to $500,000 right and it would bring your other use of finances up to 516 36 what's subtracting yeah what's what's something's got to come down if we're moving something if we're not raising it the fun balance is 3.7 million 3.7

and we're taking going back 500,000 so 3.2 you would go into the capital reserve is total fund balance and saying take 500 out transfer 500 out to pay for all of this stuff got and that leaves a 3.2 ofal well that's well I suggested right and to talk I think your idea is a good one if we could do it while I also think it's something that we could wait and discuss because I'm totally I just I feel like if it's there to use we should talk about how we're going to use it instead of just having unless we're going to invest it and then make some money on it that too you know my thought is future planning is that could help with the town office a little bit more that's where I was going with like if that's if that's in need of stuff but that's a whole another story yeah I guess I got lost there are we talking Eureka or we talking town okay I was just explaining why I was okay so back now can we go to capital reserve and

talk about like each of the thingies we have a motion oh sorry sorry I thought we were all agreement motion is for $50,000 to be transferred of $3.7 fund the Eureka Center Capal Reserve Capal reserve count yes well it's got this um it do it's got this

adjust your are figuring out where we're adding and putting things if you go back to page one almost at the bottom of the page where it reads 445,000 originally the changes that to 450 now if we're doing what J is suggesting that number changes to

all right so I got a motion on the table to transfer $50,000 from the general fund 3.7 million fun Eureka capital reserve I have a second by Joe okay any further discussion on that all in closes motion capital reserve account request a total of 4668 36 and to rep $50,000 I think they're separate questions because one is being transferred other are we voting on the capital reserves are we voting on the AR think so if if if if I were doing it it would be the capital reserve would be what's listed the 466 836 because that's being raised 50,000 no but what is listed the 466 836

is being raised so that's one question $50,000 is being transferred I mean so sorry so we had coming from different funding sources hold on hang on you lost I'm I'm yeah I I thought we were talking about all the capital projects I think that he was just making a motion for discussion hang on

happy with the capital projects that were presented by the CIP committee you didn't so that's why I made the motion because with Robert rules you make the motion it get second and then you go into discussion you don't discuss before the motion we can do that we jumped in the we jumped in the Eureka and we talked that all the way down to the bottom of the of the foundation and back again and and we didn't talk about any of other things that were presented yeah we had a motion at the time so that's why we were having a discussion so I was making the motion to approve the capital reserve account request if there's a second then we go into that we can go second we have a second I have a second discussion on the capital reserve account request in front of us yes love discuss now eure said is not part of this conversation understand because you didn't put it in this list so you understand that I just want

to make sure everybody's on the same page we do not the e is a whole different part of right we just voted to put $50,000 in the E Center Reserve account and now we're talking about capital reserve I don't think that we talked about the other $9,000 that we're talking about coming out our before the before we got here so that's also outstanding as far as I'm concerned the eure CER project we now we had to peel that out because I get I just want to finish one point of business at a time we just jump to another one so let's finish the capital reserve request discussion questions on capital reserve

14 14 L 9985 the extra copies of the supplement yeah can I think I presented um when Mark was here a discussion about uh changing the way that we fund Reserve accounts to go to level funding funding scenario and we didn't as talk about that um tonight and so

um I think it's important to establish if the board wants to move in that direction it's different it's very different than the way we've done it before um personally I am in favor of this because I think the more that we can um keep people's taxes from extreme

fluctuations based on what we have to buy or improvements that we have to make um I think this accomplishes that and so that's one of the reasons why I would be in favor for it but I'm definitely to what other people have to say about

planning and I will say again that uh you know having the Mone Reserve accounts and being taxed on it on a yearly basis to get to those purchases is a lot more cost effective for our individual taxpayers money than borrowing the money and paying the high interest rates on it uh so I I agree that this is the better way to do it I think it's uh and and the way it's you

allows greater flexibility to capture different opportunities you know if things are set aside and the money's there and there's a schedule to replace a piece of equipment next year and it's in fine working order and you don't need to you don't need to expend it if you have to replace it next year and all of a sudden there's a great opportunity because of local towns getting rid of a piece of equipment and you can get it at a really good price it allows that f maybe do that a year earlier to save money in the long run whereas now there's times where you can't really do those sorts of things so I just think it creates more opportunity to um be more

responsible in terms of like what Josh is saying for borrowing but also pursue opportunities at the right time and you know capture savings there potentially I think that there's two things about this that are important um rich brought up the concern last meeting um you know about the select

board when the time comes up you know spending this money versus going to the town meeting and asking every year or whenever it comes up that we to spend the money um and so personally I think it's really important that if we are going to move to this system like it would my my vote would almost be contingent on it actually um that this is readily available information on our website where people can see exactly what's happening in a very transparent way um because I do think other people will share that concern as

there's a lot of layers when you get into this and the first the first layer the first layer of the onion per se is the actual plan and and and moving forward with what the town Peres buying in the future for whatever Capital expenditures it may or may not have a wish list or however you want to do it but what's the threshold and what's the number of the coffers that you're trying to build to so are you just building like we have been over the years vaguely and have money that we're not even utilizing that are sitting in the Coffer this is the first year and well since I've been sitting on this board and I've seen so much money being depleted that but in the same token we're asking for that to go right back in so you just T it's it's kind of it's it's like having a nest egg but as soon as you spend your nest egg you want it 100% replenished immediately and I think you just have to have foresight of what is going to

transpire over the years for example I'm I'm I'm I'm in favor of obviously saving money to what point though and it also depends on what economic conditions we are in right now we are in an inflationary perod per we were in higher interest rates Etc 3 years ago this town or four years ago this town was borrowing money at 2% where we were getting 0 one% in the

bank and it was just sitting in the coffers rather than us utilizing it so I think there's a much broader approach that needs to be added here another layer before we can just make that determination I do think you need to add money to Capital reserves but to go to just quotequote we're going to Flat fund everything out from here on there I think I think the CIP committee needs to be involved with that I think the select board committee needs to be involved with that and it takes more resources than just quite frankly a conversation over a cup of coffee I think there's a bit of a mischaracterization of what happened um we were presented that last week last meeting they showed us an outline of exactly what they expected for Capital expenditures over the next decade and a half so this isn't just a throw $200,000 a year at it and let the select board decide what they want to do we are given all that information that included the

C's review so there's a process there so it's not really a fair characterization to suggest that that's not happening but by that rationale you can't say it's a faar characterization that the town is stagnant that the town doesn't change and have other needs as the Townes that have to do with this conversation you don't know what the town is going to need in 10 years from now well we can take a look at depreciation of equipment and have an understanding of a schedule that we we know that this piece of equipment will become 40 years old should be replaced at year 30 this isn't this isn't we're not creating this as a novel concept this is not the first municipality who come up with this idea this is a pretty steady framework that Jerry was really directed to from the start to come up with a way to do this and this is just saying if you know that your car is 10 years old and that you generally get 15 years out of a car

don't wait until you're 15 to try to come with all that money to buy your car start saving over the next five years that's exactly why the CIP committee was invented three four years ago and they presented us with all of this information last meeting so we have that schedule of what the goal would be over the next 10 years so I think that to say that we can't just have a cup of coffee conversation isn't really what happen I just well we are I mean we've had two meetings on it really I mean it's there hasn't been a lot of discussion in the CED there hasn't been a lot of discussion on it unless I missed a meeting on this particular subject with the board last meeting was that no that's what I'm saying we we have not had you're agreeing with what I'm saying we have not had a discussion on this as a board in its entirety of how you wanted to proceed going forward that's what we're doing well like I said I think

that's a little bit that's a pretty detailed if I remember correctly obviously can speak to that when they were doing their there was a very uh full circle conversation that took place about whether or not funding should be attached to projects um and their import

and why don't you speak to what the outcome of that was because I wasn't there first hand I just watched yeah we we did we did discuss the um the projects we uh did have a quite a discussion on um you know quite frankly whether the town was ready for funded budget um the schedules have been

um that that have been put together been uh have morphed over the years we've been doing CIP for five years um you know that they they've become really really good the schedules are have looked out over the course of 10 and 20 years of what we'll need for equipment um you know I think we were mixed on whether uh level funding would um but the town would accept that we felt that um you know it is a it is a thing we should look at for the future but it wasn't um don't think we came up with um you know the actual recommendation to go that way it was going to be have to the select board to actually make that decision so here we are talking about that same subject so I think one of the I've been you know while I've only sat on this board not not even at a year and on the budget committee for a few years have been paying attention for a number of years and one of the things that um residually comes up is that we are

constantly um reacting to things that are happening versus being proactive about things that are happening and and that was part of why we moved to a town manager form of government so that we can be more proactive um and plan and always have to

be reacting to things um and I think that moving towards this moving to this um puts us in a situation where we're planning instead of always being reactionary um and I think I think as our town grows that has that has to be part of it I mean we're it just does it's like even like as a homeowner even as a business owner you can't just shoot from the hip like you to in order to be successful there has to be planning involved and and to me that's what this

represents um sorry I know I was just gonna say so and I I get what rich is saying we do have a lot of money in the bank I mean we have have saved quite a bit of money um which which then you know you say well don't want to just tax people just for the sake of taxing them um I I also

had some personal experience with um recently um uh putting my retirement together so I'm now looking at fixed income myself and I like the idea of having the level loaded taxes it makes makes it easier for me to plan when I'm going through um you know thinking about retirement and U it's um I could you know again it's it's a um

you know the calculation for somebody who is on a fixed income it becomes a easier number to to to look at every year but it is a still a a large sum of money that we're asking the people to go way when we also have money in the bank we do have some projects we have we have some projects that are are that we have to think about coming up that um would be in the future which you we talked about it um briefly about town hall um

increasing the size of the Town Hall somewhere increasing Our Town footprint I'll call it um uh rather than placing it just on the town hall um you know that'll come with a cost later on whether money's cheap or not at that point we we don't really know we don't have that crystal ball right now money's not cheap um and so having that extra money in the bank um and keeping it there and and then raising this you know level funding with two departments you know maybe in the long run a better way to go um to keep everything level now and then look at some of the long ter expenditures coming up that we haven't seen yet and and then and then working at it another year or two and see if level funding actually was you know the right way to go or do we do we stop that exercise so you suggesting level fund for a couple of years and then reevaluate and then reevaluate and then and you know right now it looks very

promising you know money is expensive to borrow um we again I think we're going to have a couple expenditures come up that they utilize that we could make some decision decisions utilize the pool of money we've already captured I mean it is people's money we're holding you know everybody's money that we're holding in so but you could offset more as well and not raise as much so my

question is the this budget that's presented here maybe without the little bit of additions that we've done tonight this represents a zero tax increase correct so ra so raising this doesn't it doesn't represent an increase unless it's unless it's whatever we maybe added this budget represents flat funding year one right okay so my just one other point Jos then please go is that we do have a $3.7 million fund

balance and whatever I think we're at 500,000 to transfer out um leaves us at 3.2 and then if we do move to the thing where we have the fund balance that is represented by the two months of expenditures and whatnot you know that leaves us with an amount of money that we could then discuss about investing where we would be able to be generating Revenue right to be able to also help contribute to this in a in a situation where we're not raising the taxes with this budget well see let me just sorry Jos one more thing I will point out that yes we'll say we do this and deplete it by down to $3.2 million Jerry will tell you that this is an estimate on this budget invariably every year this number will probably go up by two to $300,000 you go from 3.2 back up to say 3.5 at the end of the year because the budget is the budget you're you're you you got a little bit extra in there that goes back into that

fund at the end of the year you raise more taxes this year because you built more houses and you did other things so you you end you end up with almost I'll say a net gain not quite you don't end up with your 3.7 back but you'll end up with you end up with last year you'll end up with like last year last year you you you picked up a $10 million surplus in evaluation that's the point I'm tring to make yeah so so I can see the point is you know do you you know not you

know yeah is level funding the right thing to do right now going to have all that other Revenue coming in is that Revenue known it sounds like the answer is not it's not known it depends on how much is built what the re reevaluations look like and I think what I'm getting at here is a burd in the hand's better than two in the bush whether we start level funding now or not doesn't change our needs our needs to replace pieces of equipment for public works or for the fire department in the future so we have to generate the money at some point and so it's either evenly spread over a period of time or trying to scramble when that comes down the line and we can always play the game of like well what happens in the future what if there's a new grant that says every town in the United States gets a free fire truck and now we raised all this money for fire truck like we can always come up with scenarios like that but I think it's

more responsible to be spreading that raising out and then if you're in the situation where you're now generating more Revenue the following year you can make an adjustment for that say well we ended up with a surplus last year so we don't need to put we'll take that Surplus we got from last year put that into the level fund and then reduce the amount that we're pulling out of the budget so I think you can make that correction year to

that correction but again if you're pulling that much money out of the coffers this year it it almost looks like but you're not raising any taxes I mean that's frankly it's because the board has over taxed for so many years that's what I don't want to happen again which is I mean which the reason we're not over taxing is because we're spending the money from the previous board over taxing previous board hasn't really raised the taxes much over so but they ra tax concern about dipping into accumulated 3 whatever million dollar and so now we're saying let's start investing in our future and paying our bills without increasing taxes by spending down the money we've already collected from people so saying hey we're not going to make you pay more taxes this year because we already have it from you from the previous years we're just spending it we're spending that down that just makes sense to me so

I don't even understand how this is this much of a detailed conversation this just seems like a pretty foolproof approach to handling these things in the future and paying our bills now I'd like to hear what Josh has to say so one of the concerns I raised to Jerry was similar to what the discussion we're having and that is you you know if we keep putting $500 from that account into the budget so that we don't raise taxes eventually it's going to run out it could be uh you know we're at about 2 million so it could be four years from now presumably the way things go is we're going to recoup some of that at the end but there's an end and so the reason I don't want to use that money to pay off essentially

say okay this year we're going to use this $2 million to lower our taxes is next year it's going to be that big sh right where the taxes are going to go back up so I think using a small portion of it I think next year I think it's next year that 700,000 or so dollars comes off the books um and I think at that point we have a longer term discussion about these things and then we decide hey you know what we have this money we're pretty steady

with our taxes with our expenses we we're putting this Mone aside then we can use that $2 million on renovating the town office which which needs it because the comment Jerry made to me during one of our recent discussions was even if even if Town approved us hiring somebody we have no place to put them so so you know we're we're running out of that space uh you know I I will be want to say that I don't like that the town office is closed on Fridays I don't I I think the town should be open you know all five days because there are some people uh you know who who can't get out Thursday nights uh you know this time of year I Tred it took me two weeks to come over and get new trash tags because uh I I was late leaving the office one day and had on a Thursday and had to go to Thursday night basketball uh so I didn't get a chance to come back over uh you know uh you know if you could hire somebody to get the St

propriety and late another night that I I would love it uh I think that's a better use of the money uh than you know than than than saying okay we're going to lower your taxes this year but it's only going to last a year uh and so I agree that there are there needs to be more discussion my concern is is that the way our system is set up is we have two meetings to discuss it and then we have to make a proposal to give to the budget committee and then we have the discussion uh and uh my personal feeling is um that we should set this money aside flat fund it and then we can continue this discussion after and that that might be more appropriate time to decide um and and maybe my my opinion will be changed I don't know but I think putting that money aside for those expenses is

when we fund Reserve accounts does can it does it can we put it in a situation where it makes interest well it just goes it's really in one big sweep account yeah just it's just in a an account on paper so what I would like to just see is oh yeah well maybe could not tonight to Josh's Point have a conversation about how money that we're building can work for us interest

wise in a way that makes us more money rather than just I I would I would love to have that conv that's like that two that two million or 1.5 if this all goes through putting that aside yeah somewhere so you have your one your 1.7 that we're supposed to have in the account then you have this money I just think if that was also part of what we can say to the town and then that the interest from that money you put in that yeah I mean banks are paying right now say we have over million Bank even from from from a business level from a business account Savings business account you can get anywhere between 4.25 and 4.75 so if I was a lot of cash if I was

not in this and one of the things that I was able to be educated about and understand is that if we're level funding these accounts and that in turn is also making you know Revenue interest right that to me would be a reason to want to do this I I'm done yeah I was just going to

say um you know to Josh's point about using the reserve to or the the fund balance to pay down taxes or to pay down to not to reduce taxes I think there is a bit of a distinction where it's not just like oh we're just paying down this bill it's it's an investment into the town's future needs and that's where I think that there's the strength another strength there is that you're saying we're taking this money out of that but we're not just saying we're going to use it for whatever we're saying we're dedicating it to those improvements that the CIP has already approved that we out over the next 10 years and and I think that that's another strength to it and then to tie into what Heather said if you have the opportunity to put that in an investment it's like like any other person putting money into their savings account to save for a big purchase in a few years it can earn a little bit of money for you so I just think that it's

steady it's more predictable and it's a better way to allocate those funds than letting them sit in a fund balance without any sort of plan for so that's why I'm a fan of it can I ask question about so if we let's say we do this the way that it's outlined right and we're doing $25,000 into public works and then when I go to the schedule so if we if we vote to do that does that in then in turn also mean are they two separate things that we're voting

I want to use for the projects that are listed for 20 24 that it's but this is saying what this is saying to the to everyone is that we're asking you to level fund our um Reserve accounts and here are the things that we see as being things that we need for 10 years and if we fund it at this rate for 10 years we will cover all these items okay that doesn't mean that we're saying that money can only be used on a riding mower in 2024 that money can only be used on an excavator in 2031 no I understand if other things arose kind of like what Mark was saying other things arose that fell into an immediate need you could address that um but like anything this is just what we're saying this is the plan so in terms of the board right there'll be another conversation if we let's say we level fund it and we go to town meeting and town level funds it then there's another conversation and vote about the

board spending this money on these things am I am I understanding that correctly we would the town you're going to ask to buy in the future you're still going to ask the town to buy those St I don't think we are no well no that's the point about the level funding for that is that you're saying that this is what we expect to have for things and then it gives the authority Mark was saying to the select board to make the purchases as they deem fit as the schedule did no it doesn't the schedule does not dictate what you spend it's that's what you're vocalizing that this is our plan but this there's if this is voted for the schedule doesn't dictate the select board has to buy the riding lawn mower next year if we get to next year and decide that the riding lawn mower is still functioning fine we don't have to buy it if we decide we want two push lawn mowers instead ofing more want if if as a board we decide to do

the 205 for public person using the numbers that are here right we're not putting on the warrant this year we're going to buy a plow riding mot equipment trailer you wouldn't this is justification for saying the reason we want to raise x amount over these years is that it would P be set us up to follow a purchasing schedule like this two separate conversations and that's that's really the problem that's that's what the problem is we we've been a scientific government over a few hundred years and the town's we've been very transparent for say of what we're buying and giving the town a lot of input of what we do going forward you're almost well you had to before but that's what I'm saying you're almost and and by doing something like this and I get it it's not intentional but you're almost going to a different form of government well we did go to a different form of government we got you did but you're not

we're not a Town Council getting but the difference is with this is like Mark pointed out at the last meeting at the town meeting there is then a uh the town votes do you give the select board the authority to expend funds out of these accounts should they seem them necessary so it's just giving the S where the authority each year to say you don't have to wait until next year if something breaks in this this truck needs replacing you don't have to wait until April 1st of next year or have a special town meeting to try to get that truck that's sitting on the dealership and just hope that no one else buys it before April I think one of the things that you suggested the last time that I think is a good idea is is that if the waren article reads something similar to that is that we could attach a percentage to it or we could attach a up to dollar amount to it if people are uncomfortable with with

just the wide open whatever you know I I I would be inclined to hear that type of conversation also but I do and I understand what you're saying I completely understand what you're saying I also feel like this is part of what

Jerry was tasked with this is part of what our compl says this is this is this is part of planning to not have to just be reactionary i i i and again I really want this to be very transparent on the website so people can see exactly what this is about and in two years from now be able to go in and look and be like oh that was what their plan was that was what they did this is what's coming next um I think that that's really important but I think the town has shown over the years that they like to have a lack of better words control over your purchase I think 200 people that show up at town meeting like to have control over the 200 people I've seen quite a few people in this room you know you not necessarily even you it was me I was there I said a lot yeah but even from that standpoint they don't even want to give a select board a $10,000 discretionary fund but now we're going to say hey we're going to give you a

$300,000 discretionary fund to go out and buy whatever you deem necessary for the town I'm not saying it shouldn't be done I'm not saying it can't be done I just think it warrants a bigger conversation not necessarily just with this board and the CIP committee but with the people of the town so I think the people of the town this is where this will happen but spoke when we went to a town manager form of government it wasn't 200 people that was a ballot vote that was a right and and we went to a town manager form of government which includes this kind of governance if you weren't on this board you approved that last year were the town manager yes well we had the town manager last year yes I would approve it last year a town manager when it was a board that there wasn't a town manager no because all of us we don't live this we don't know this I agree with you th% on that we've been advocates for that for years we just

have never been able to get that conveyed across the floor that g people I think I really hope that we present this well at town meeting Jerry has found a $3.7 million general fund balance that we didn't know we have I think the guy knows what he's doing and so I million knew

You' been you've been doing it a certain way for many years right you get that but you are the trustees of the account the law spells it right out that you have that Authority and whether you use it or not is really up to you but that's

it it's set up and designed that way for a reason and it just allows more flexibility when you need to make those purchases rather than asking one time of year that's why it was set up that way using it that you want to continue that way that's up to you not to me I think it should be up to the town right that's

not going to approve it right they have two opportunities every year but this isn't like this isn't going to be up to the town it's going to town meeting with this they have to vote on both the budget and then they have to vote on both that Authority so it's not like we're forcing this on the town but you can't make it like you pointed out the town has the control to make these changes so you can't make the change without going to the town meeting we can't have we can't have a a Kum session at the Eureka Center and then say Oh the 27 people who showed up decided we're moveing to this this this methodology Joe I hear you saying I I totally agree with you I think what the point I'm trying to say is just like when we went to a town manager we put it on the town's radar ah of time we don't put it on their we don't we're not there to close them the day of the town meeting we we're we're we're we're facilitating it so that in

the future we are looking to and and we get the towns because if you're trying to close them the day of on this I I think it's going to be where if you if you just present it in a course of nature of time over the next year or two I have a meeting or two on it Etc specifically two that going to change drastically how we've been doing business for the last two 300 years I think it will go over much much much much easier for the town that's all I'm saying I'm totally in for in favor of it it's just the presentation needs to be dead on and I don't think it should be a a Saturday close on a in a 2our meeting or hour it's it's a pretty big

discussion isn't all of our budget is Saturday close besides the two meetings we have right now that you're talking about giving cart launch authority to something that the town has never done I actually suggested last year and I would still love to have it see it happen this year there is no point where the public gets to make public comment on the budget ahead of town meeting and there's been a lot know we had two meetings and we're going to have a third they three three opportunities maybe even a fourth right you mean in our public Comon session someone could have stepped up today and said these are issues well I will say that's different than what we've done in the past because in the past that hasn't been the case when we've had our budget meeting when we do it together right so you're right thank you for pointing that out um but I am in favor of the way that we do for the land use organ and people can come and ask

questions and get those things answered before we go to public meeting I'm in favor of that for the budget as well which would speak to Rich's point of the challenge there is that again like Jerry says like the select board is elected to be the trustees of this and to there's you know the fiduciary responsibility we have to the town and so while I'm 100% open for uh uh clear and concise communication and transparent Arcy it's now you know it is a lot of work like what John and the conservation commit or sorry the the the planning board chair and the Conservation Commission have had to do for those land ordinance issues it is a lot of work to do the budget if you're now adding in two public meetings and a public hearing that is just taxing the resources that we have even more and more and at some point there has to be a discussion of the election is to the election to elect somebody that can that I believe can

make certain decisions you know and so there that's the balance there too yeah I just like for people that have questions that have the opportunity to ask them yeah and get them answered and I think that there is that opportunity through so many questions to Jerry that he could potentially bring up in the manager's report and say this is a question that came across with my budget about the budget last time I mean someone forwarded a question I think about the budget after our last meeting and there is the opportunity in the public comment section and maybe the public comment section during budget meetings needs to be expanded more than 3 minutes so that could be a happy medium there but I just think that there there at some point the the wheels need to turn and the select board has to be there to help that happen and have the authority to help help that happen sure sir I think there was a motion in a

second to approve the [Music] assessing that one's not a level that was to bring the Grant Line um up to an even number yep the union church that was to bring the Union Church line back up to com that was that's a little bit of I think a little for before the car so right now we want to keep this here because this is where this is and then after we have the conversation about the union church if we need to readjust that recommendation where that number lives no I think this number should live there Town actually votes to say we give the building to so and so so I think we have to have that number in there irregardless okay if that makes sense y no

recommendation be I have no further to approve the capital reserve account request for 466 $36 Jerry's good no because you're adding 50,000 sorry add the 50 actually 516 836 516 836 that adds the $50,000 for by go St by Heather discuss hold on oneck second hold on one quick second and maybe it doesn't

okay we put up to 500,000 and but now you're saying we're going to add it on page 14 at to we're saying we're adding it to this balance but it's going to come out of Reserve so that number has if this number increases to 500,000 somewhere else in here the number has 50,000 has to be added and that will be added to capital reserve so adding this here do you see what I'm trying to say with you right now I understand what you're trying to say and I think work okay okay thanks good to double check good so

we got a motion on the table for favor all oppos no oppos motion carries next part right yeah we already yeah that can I just throw something up there to you just as far as donations go um you have like the recreation Reserve account I'm not really sure what that's for so you could I mean why not fund the

snowmobile and the baseball with that money rather than raising it again you've already raised it so just throw that up there to you so the transfer money over you know you've already raised the money so why raise another 2500 or another 1100 um for that for the snowmobile baseball I mean that's really recreational activi so that's up to you but I just thr that you say transfer the $ 23,7 42 Recreation Reserve over to no transfer

5,000 out of the recreation Reserve not the whole balance 3600 so the essentially be to move out of what's 5000 of it and then 11 whether it's raise or move sour that your propos the recreation stuff you have you have 16,000 you're suggesting that we utilize the money that's in the recreational account which was approximately 5,000 correct, 23 23,000 of used 5,000 of it to fund approxim 5,000 or 3600 3600 yeah 3600

out of the recreational account that not ra 25 but you'd still be raising the scholarship fund if that's what you want so would that then decrease that $500,000 by $3,600 because we're just reallocating rather than raising right you would be raising 2500 to the

so you could leave leave the 500 alone and just take it out of budget raising which neg negligible not people that 500,000 there we in to leave it is because I got a feeling some of this is going to change is going to change yeah well we can talk about the funding source later we don't have right we just have to approve the amounts right now we can talk about where it's going to come from later but this was what Jerry is saying is we would change the amount that we're approving because if we transferred the 3500 3600 into addressing one of these concerns then we don't need to raise that 3600 so that's less that we have to use from from that so that would be voting on a different amount we we want to give the budget committee the information on where the money's coming from for each of the items okay I don't care so in that it's

trivial you're Don you'd be raising 12,500 rather than the out of the reserve already raised just think like the 500,000 is is a easy number right and and it I do think that we have things that are coming up that we could if we wanted to pull some of those res accounts and use that money I mean I don't care I I like even numbers myself so you know but there's what 3600 households in dur not even so you're talking a dollar$ two dollar this would

leave it I think just leave it I think it's just clean it right now to leave it okay okay okay ARA good so we have a proposal to funds upon the cad dispatch the land use codification re upgrades I move we approve seconds do we do we need to we need to present though to the town what the money is going to be used for I think the the explanation from needs to be

this is what we're going to get for that n Grand right unless unless we can use it as a whole like Jerry thought but otherwise I think it needs to so I just that's just something to think about everything else is kind of okay I don't want to make a recommendation on board but just based on the fact that got heat cost and that being such an issue I think we should recommend that that go towards heat but that's why we have people that isn't that what depart $9,000 is to it has to be earmarked for a project oh I didn't see an explanation of that I guess we had the discussion about the the yeah I didn't think that that was like a conrete thing I thought that was just throwing numbers around no okay okay okay so all in favor to accept

44630 all in favor yes all oppos okay no opposed motion carries did we just finished the first B of old business that was you hang on yeah I was I was going to ask if we wanted to extend or did we want to uh go on to another evening the reason I brought it up is because Joe had mentioned CA meetings at nine and so

we want to continue I technically we have to vote to extend I I think there's a lot on this agenda that we haven't even gotten to yet and it's 9 o00 I don't mind extending but I would like to be able to release people that are here to speak to points that we might not get to tonight okay what's the option then if we we even if we extend we have a pretty large agenda here the option then to continue on with our meeting tomorrow night definitely

would I would move I that we uh move the Union Church article or Table Union Church article and move into land use ordinance that we could get through L use what I would need to know about lay use is are we at dead stop for the date for things to be able to work or if we had to have you come on Thursday if we met on Thursday would that work no uh the dead stop is we have to

have a public hearing between the I think it's the 7th of March and the 29th of March and so that's so if you not telling you to do because I know everybody wants to get this other with we have time I guess is what I'm saying so ahead of schedule I'm s glad that you've been here all night if we decide not to have you come talk toight he has a light so you need to apologize to him I'm apologizing to both of you really I feel bad still baseball gam there's no basball G I just don't think you have something else drawn that was it I just got to ask all right thank you so back to our discussion what what's our we can go till 9:30 but all right we can discuss I if we have time for the planning board to to PT that to the next meeting I think that's fine I won't be

the 7th of February as be Val not sorry not the seventh six I'm sorry February second I is a Wednesday no I screwed up I'm looking the 6 is a Tuesday I do that that would be Tuesday and then we' have regular the following the 13th what day the 6 February that's fine we can still let's talk you a church does that work for you February 6

Jerry the 6 6th of February we did a secondary meeting to talk the planning board now say I do it I'm or do we want to get other points of business that we have to get through we're only going to meet till 930 I church with planning board I'm going make a motion I move that we we table the planning board discussion and we

addressed the union we spend 30 minutes addressing the union church and then closing up the rest of 20 yeah 20 and then 10 minutes yeah let's okay second second on the bottom of it I just took a crack at what maybe what the Union Church might look like I have talked to the um attorney he's on noce that we're transferring this building and that sort of thing but I just want to make sure we're all on the same page as far as language that we're going to use in this article so I can have so my my point is Rich's Point here um you know we're seeing if we want to raise an appropriate 9,543 to the Union Church restoration fund and then appropriate 31,000 from the Union Church restoration fund to help fix the building repair it sounds like what you're saying it might be worth some word smithing to say to raise an appropriate 9,433 or to raise an appropriate $31,000 to the donation fund slated for the union church because

that might be an easier way to convey those funds if the legally doesn't line up saying well this can't be because I had the same concern as you after we thought about the meeting last time that the intent is to use that building we we know that the intent is to use that building for a public space but we also know that there's no second mode of eress so how much can you actually use it we also know that there's limited parking so how much does that play into it and I just want to cover our buns when it comes to the legal side of thing and I think rich brought up a really good point as to to do that so I think that we word SMI this just to say into the my my reason for coming up with that because he was very specific we all have to be in agreement and I just thought that would be an easier way to to to pass like I said a straight face test with the public because it's hard to make an argument that we're going to

donate funds to a building for public use when the building's not necessarily it's not really it's not really in a condition for public use that that was giving me a little bit of heart end the last meeting because even though I know that that's what they wanted to use it for I was like 6 months ago we were talking about we won't let anyone in so we were on record saying you can't even go in there but here's 31,000 for your public building so that's kind of my my hang out there I

apologize I'm sincerely apologizing because I was looking for the wording that we used for domes insance while you were talking and I just want to make sure because we have the money that's already in the Union Church you were you were we would ask the town to transfer that money out of that restoration account to a donate the donation account transferred out of that account to the general fund to return we would make a donation via the charity through the general fund versus trying to swap monies that was raised for public and giving it to a I just wanted to make sure that we were doing that we ask we're asking for $9,500 and then we're saying after you g this that 95 $500 we want to transfer 30 a total of $31,000 to the general fund for a donation to The Union Church Society or club or organization I can't remember that I don't have a problem with that as long as there are uh contingencies like for example

for the transfer I still think we need to say use it for the public purpose uh how we discussed I think we discussed the museum and think for the money um it should you know again it's not because that's the intent right and I think that it needs to be worded in that

manner so that it says something along the lines of a donation the $31,000 donation towards the the stated repairs that have been provided by so and so um and so that the money can only be used for that um the historical society when they were here said that they were fine bringing invoices to Jerry to have Jerry cut the check so even if we still are doing it in the form of the donation they could bring in their receipts for the work that was done to show right if that feels like a little bit more of an insurance policy to the fact that the money is getting used for repairs I mean I I don't the insinuation I think comes across is a not trust but it's it's a again it's not our money it's no no I don't I I really care about the way people feel I mean right I really do and I don't I feel like it's this board's obligation to make sure about distrust or anything like that it's just simply what our job is so

and I care about the way people feel and I don't think that they feeling like that with regards to it so I think if we do put stipulations around that there's that's our job and I think it's completely perfect I think utilizing J or even the board um just saying something the town is Will to make a donation for fiscal year of 2024 whatever it is for the for funds

of 41,000 to be used for the restoration of 31 just 31,000 31,000 for the restoration of this specific specific said property um and and the town manager whomever will be the C I think that the way you just phrased that rich is a really good way to phrase it used for the restoration of because when we think about it's in the historic district we have rules already around how things are supposed to look in the historic district so we're saying that we're putting forward money to as a town to keep that area looking the way it is and at minimum that's keeping that aesthetic that is required in the area and we're and we're putting that money forward so I think that's a good way to handle it's restoration because that way it takes the ambiguity of like well we're going to put Wi-Fi in there we're going to put a telephone P things just for restoration funds can we just back up one second and get it on the record

we haven't as a board voted that we are transferring the property that we're choosing to put it on the warant transfer the property we were we were waiting on the I think that's what we're doing right now we it last we did we did we did it last meeting oh we did we did to put it on that's right you wanted a presentation about how it was going to be used for public well and I thought about that I don't think they're not here and I don't want to speak for them but I don't I don't think what they're and I'm not saying there's anything wrong whatsoever I admire what they're doing and I admire what they continue to do despite what they think what I think all I am saying is that

if the monies have to be used for us to access it the way Jack wrote his letter the way I interpret it yes it's very hard to say that's for public use that building's not able to be for public use because of no parking No E no facilities no water no heat it's it's it's almost impossible to pass the straight see what you're saying is whether we say we think it's rep public use or not it doesn't we don't get law I can say I don't think I was I don't think it does that's I came up with this so I wouldn't have so we could vote to actually show our support for giving them funds because I think it's hard for me to vote it as public money so is our job tonight to craft the warrant is it is our job tonight just to establish the money because what we're trying to do is get the budget done to be able to make recommendations to the budget committee are we supposed to be figuring out the wording of the article

well would it would be nice to get we don't have to right now but I've never done a transfer of the bu so I just wanted to make sure we were all on the same page so I so given the information he needs to go back to both the law and to generate the warrant itself okay so yeah the whole conversation is very valid and yeah the selling point I I think and again I think what what what the society put together was was great information but it still didn't like I say sell me on the public use I know the

intentions there but this gives us the ability to just um you know mother over the money to the town I think the town's got a lot of passion for that building the town's people do they've put this money aside so I think just yeah having those safeguards in place I think would probably be enough for everybody to get everybody over the line to go and take the money that was already allocated and and and and allocate it for those upgrades that we know the building needs it's no right but we we've been pretty open about it needs or what it doesn't and and they need to fix that really to quite frankly use it like it is so I think it's a I think that's the selling point is that we're going to take the money you've already allocated and we're going to donate it over to them and this is the way we're going to do it because we just need to do it this way and be able to keep tabs on what what the money

is being spent on on behalf of the town okay so that's one of your things Josh that you want to see is the however Jack ick is going to write it right that that they're going to either come to I think they're going to come to you the restoration part right are there are other sticking points that people have I have the first R of refusal sticking point

the specific I don't ask literally just asked that that's what I was asking I agree with you I I think what right now is the how I Envision this for at least to meeting is to allow the select board to enter to a real estate trans I'm just paraph there to enter in an agreement with the Historical Society for the transfer of the Union Church here going forward and then the lawyers and stuff can draft up whatever we want to include purchase and sales that's the way I Envision it because I don't think you can incorporate all that in an article okay that's what I was asking is that also what you did okay and will that be incorporated before you go no I think you got to I think spend the money on the on the lawyer to draft that you want to you want to ask the town permission to transfer then spend the money on the attorney okay so they say

no justt so right so this would just be in our explanation to the town it would be these are the things we're going to put into placeas yeah basic stuff so I would just my only concern with putting this money as a donation is if if if the restoration doesn't get completed by the end of the what happens we could we could I mean we could ask the attorney and I'm I'm not you know like I said we could make Jerry the custodial of the funds make it make a donation and put it in a trust that has a fiveyear period or something does that make sense yes are we going to put the the money question let's say we we're putting the question on and the town says I don't think it will happen but the town says not we don't want to transfer it they load it down and then we've put the question on the warrant there has to be a thing like because now we're going to be asking them to transfer this money

into to give as a donation but if they didn't transfer the building they don't want to do that well they they vot it down as we get they voted down fail no action fail no action just making sure we have that but fail no but fail no action then do we do we have a o we we will own the building still correct and we will have to do the repairs ourselves so we still need the $70,000 or whatever it is that was asked for to go and make a repair oh we're putting that on I didn't see that well that's why I that's what that's what I don't I didn't know we were put I I didn't but I'm just what do we do say it say no I think I think that goes to the next stage that's that's I think we have the the 22 whatever and we would either do a

another special time meeting or we wait till next year we we can do that we can do that y we could do that that's a other I didn't even think I don't see that happening but I mean one of those things that we have to you know that out so the building goes the money is a separate thing as a donation if the donation doesn't go then it doesn't go and the building still does and then that's the end of it got it so we've got this money part established for us to be able to make recommendations to the budget committee y yes are we done with our Union Church conversation question do town will donate 31,000 for the restoration of the Union Church is that close donate into to a restoration trust to be uh restoration into a restoration trust that will be overseen and the town manager will be the Cod of the trust or something of that nature or the or the town manager and select board either just give it a Jack to ask how he

want that's how I do isn't just a question but because Don it's still public money right yeah but we're not using it per se for a public project we're using it as a donation like we're like the other things that are on this the like the scholarship fund the an vets generator right I mean like those things are right so it would become one of those category type things and my only other question just for clarity when when that gets transferred over the Historical Society we don't care the town's not liable for any parking or Windows or no we're not and I think that not reliable that's not ours anymore right right I was getting confused on the whole public funds because it's not this that and other things it's just the way Jack worded is how I why weed lawyers way you know what I always say you listen to

think so I got a little bit better to go on I'll try to do this and then what I'll do is once I have something that I think that works I will fold that on the jack to see how it works okay so at least still have an idea so manages report oh yeah so a few things here um so we at

the lighting um the Eureka Center is that it should be it should be done this week um the town office uh the town office the Eureka Center there going to be a little bit more than what they estimated because of the way that the lights were wide to begin with kind of ran through conduit and the conduit was fasten to the bottom of theing the light wasn't so to get to the wire they had to cut the conduit and the light would fall so they had to run the wire was just easier so a little bit more there lights look good um so there's that that's that they should be done with that are they putting an exterior light over there no because it's a it's a um retrofit I I

wasn't sure but I figur new do that um another thing can can we get back to maybe having some of you come in and sign the warrant maybe like once a week because what's happening is some of the timing we're paying late fees and that sort of thing on our bills try to minimize that is there a way to do doy sign is that like is there a way to do that just one of us would stop yeah it only has to be one person yeah Y

no I'm not yeah it's always it used to be Todd because he worked in yeah the reason why I said that because getting ready to do the audit and it was the first time I saw it was allowed before one would come in and sign a

what day you want yeah that's probably how we'll have to do it maybe email and say Warr send us a note whoever's available due back to us on February 8th and the bid opening is on February 12th I da a senate to 12 different votes two of them have already declined so we'll see what we get when that time comes I'll keep you close and that's about it I just uh you know this budget was a lot of work so it's going to be some to make some more changes but good good job like you guys are what you're

doing thank you um anybody have any question on the U board member report for J I have a question and I might be able to answer it myself I Chief's report says the D the department is requesting a select board vote to use 20,000 from the Grant Line we need to vote on that yeah I think you probably would like to see that actually let me just move for the camera yes Mr if you have time there's

27,000 in a matching grant for the to little over that yes we've already accepted as you recall an EMA grant for 20,000 I think it's $ 20,35 for radios we we have all those radios in stock we're waiting for them just to be um installed in the trucks so we're ready to to pay the bill I just need a a vote from you all to pay the bill and as soon as that bill is paid EMA comes back to the town into that line item the same complete 100% reimbursement but we need to front it first and because it's over five and 10 we need you

Grant Line whatever second the seconds any favor guys have been busy as usual keep up the good work out there same with the public works I I'll give a shout out to those guys they've been out know Calvin left um out cleaning the roads they've been doing a great job on that

because andair you might allow us or not or the board might allow but being that Chief and Calvin didn't make their presentation tonight you just accept their what's it called and add it to the minutes and add it to the the web page for said rep so they don't have to come back and read me we have it we've read it why can't we just accept it and that for yeah and I I I was the

just accept no just accept the report as a part of our meeting well this is a this was a thought I actually had because they they actually a direct reports to the town manager that yeah they don't necessarily have to read the reports to us every week from now on they provide them and we have questions we can send questions back through Jerry um so yeah I think they should be posted you could just accept them while you say from coming here andang if we got a question right and then we'll get right right that's what yeah that's what we can do from now on that'll save everybody some time and uh go from there

we love seeing it hurts but okay I'll I'll s we love you guys I think special events is a great thing like you did with the presentations on for the guys the other day those are those are those are definitely bring everybody here for that type of stuff so C do the same after they do a good job plowing okay thank you you um see do I

have a motion to accept the consent agenda and the minutes from last meeting moved are we allowed to ask a question about the consent agenda no okay take it off the consent agenda I thought so but it's fine never mind I'll just let it go I mean I'll ask it I just won't ask it about it's fine okay I'll ask it in general at the next meeting okay that sounds good do I have a second to Jones seconds Qui actually discussion yeah so by by moving and accepting this are we accepting the appointment to the planning board yes that's what my question sorry sorry did I skip that we have Sor I didn't even see it in there where is it here I can read it oh oh I'm just looking for thank you let's see I have uh Mark is it D

dear is it you D yeah is it you that's 5 25 stole Road uh planning board uh wants to be appointed as a planning board alterate and um so to the planning board sir thank you all right now consent um a motion to accept the consent Joe seconds all in

favor good okay upcoming meetings select for meetings on 213 we actually just stuck another meeting in there for 26 26 yep 26 uh and another one at 227 sorry so we're stacked up in February planning board meeting on 27 uh we will hear new business or ongoing business for 2024 planning board recommendations at the 26

meeting okay do I have a motion right we're good minut left over