TranscriptUnion Church Committee Meeting ~ July 18, 2023

uh Union Church committee uh a committee that has long uh overdue to be established uh I believe uh some of you folks probably have more history than I do but it was uh voted on in 2021 to establish this committee and here we are in 2023 getting going um so what I'm going to do is I'm just going to sort of just kick it off I'll introduce myself because it's really the committee's job to do this work I do want to recognize that um Neil did put together some bylaws if you want to review them they can be just guidelines and Lois put together today's agenda you can use as a guideline too to to kind of go um to go on so what this what this committee is um charged with doing is seeing what the town would like to do with the with the Union Church um and probably I should introduce for myself to people that don't really know I'm the town manager um hired back in August of 2020. two the iron 23 you haven't dealing with

a lot of numbers today so I'm I'm excited to get this committee up and going and and what we're going to do with this trip so I thank you all for stepping up to the to play and sitting on this committee and and moving uh moving this forward um so what we have what we are charged with at least today in doing is just establishing the committee and and you can talk about a lot of things but I don't see a lot of voting on what's going to happen with that building today it's just establishing the committee establishing who's going to be the chair Vice chair secretary setting your agendas and that sort of thing and and moving forward um so it looks like we have all the members here except for one alternate candy candy okay so that's good um so I'm not sure how you want to do it I I think introductions would be good to start um so we just want to go around the room and um introduce yourself and maybe why you

want to signed up to be on the committee I'm Neil Berry I'm retired I've lived in Durham for almost 40 years I have no agenda just maybe keeping taxes down my agenda but other than that I'm open-minded my name is Lois Kilby Chesley I live right around Pond Road and I started coming to Durham in 1971 but I didn't find my first taxi until 1988 so um because I lived out west for a while I presently um am a member of the Historical Society I chair the historic district Commission and I am one of a few people who are on Friends of the western Memphis Church where we're renovating The Churchill running around Pond Road um I taught an rc5 for 33 years and was president of the land Education Association for the final six uh John Talbot we've lived here about two years plus uh family the boy family goes back longer than that there was the stolen stuff out of my barn

anyway the family goes back a long way chair of the planning board on the budget committee uh Tia Wilson I lived in town for 21 years and moved to Topsham two years ago um I couldn't find a house that I could afford in Durham so unfortunately I had to leave um I lived in a 200 year old house that basically was falling down around me on Brickyard so we didn't have an option um I have been on the Historical Society since I think 2008 but I can't really remember the date and I've been the chair now for about five or six years and I have been on the cemetery Committee in Durham now for equally as long amount of time and then the chair for approximately two years I work in affordable housing for a Vesta housing and I do contracts and procurement and run the Landscaping Department Paula Erdman with my family when I was I don't know 15 12 13 out of the woods of Freeport High School 20 years ago 20

years ago yeah but I wish huh um my parents ahead of one of the old Farms up on Hollowell Road Route 9 is what I always call it move but High School College came you know moved away came back and now we've we live three we can did some work on the house and lived here um I've been in the Historical Society since it started actually because my mom was part of it so anyway I'm in the Historical Society I'm on the historic this was a teacher taught at Durham when I first started and then traveled the world and was a at home mom and now I'm kind of retired anyway um I have an interest in all the old buildings of Durham and that one in particular so

Pond Road which is right next to where John lives well next to about a mile away but he's the closest neighbor I've been here for about 33 years I'm retired right now my career consisted of started out as a soldier I was I was a green brain the Army jumping out of planes and driving fast boats and running around the world doing stuff and then I got hurt in the Army and I had to retire so

my degree was in engineering so I spent a few years as a mechanical engineer and then I went to law school and spent the rest of my career mostly as a lawyer I represented you in the legislature I was the attorney general for the state of Maine for a while

I care about uh the place we live Emily Emily's partner so yeah we've moved in up hello Road uh just two just over two years ago now um I grew up in Maine and I guess like yeah interest in Old buildings has always kind of been there but it's gotten more formalized in the last few years like joining the Historical Society um I'm also a member of the planning board where John is our fearless leader I'm an electrical engineer by trade but the only one at my company so I picked a couple of shots and tell them where I'm working at any time which is very nice

I'm Emily Alexander um I live off of Colorado road with Tyler um I am also on the historic commission and the Historical Society yeah I love old buildings all right well great thanks again thank you all for days and stepping up to the plate and being on a committee to talk about what we're gonna it's gonna happen with this historical building where looking at um

done that every month's old thin right okay that's good so we can check that off this plate that at least on the agenda if we want to follow this and we can deviate if you want like I said this is not so much the actual start of the committee deliberations but just getting it started we can start the process of selecting chairs and vice chairs and secretaries if you want and I'll just leave it to the group to to have them try to make a nomination well there you go I nominate Bill Snyder as the chair

uh just for another nomination I nominated Lois just having experience in history with the different societies as well and to make it more complicated it shouldn't be simple all right is there a second on there I I second okay oh I can't sorry yeah no

it's fine it's fine I'll say okay thanks all right so we've got two nominations so any discussion on either one both or over this this the only discussion I or I'm going to have is is what we're going to have with bylaws of any holidays [Music]

rubbish rules rewarders and that's I guess yeah but I think in some guidelines and if we end up using Robin's rules of orders I put this together it's kind of a cut and paste generic thing I don't think there's anything offensive in there but it does say we use the orders anyway Bill's a good guy for Robin's rules he knows them with efficient in their

when I was president of the main education system we used to run the tools also so I'm familiar with them too okay I just um so as far as the committee goes and how a formal and official that we wanted I did some research today and there's such thing as standing committees and ad hoc and so I view this more of a ad hoc committee where once your mission is accomplished it'll probably be dissolved yep so it's really up to this committee on how formal you want to get with bylaws or that sort of thing so I just throw that out to you but I do see once we get the report to the select board and they make decisions well saying the the committee will dissolve right away but it's it's not going to be long after that I believe that it will it will be short as well yeah so so you have a mission so Jerry I have in my mind December was that for another committee or is it no that's that was this yeah so we can plan budget or right

depending on where you go that's when we get into budget season where we talk are we going to see see it through to the to whatever that we decide about the building that it's actually accomplished whatever we do with the building well that'll be the guidance from the segment was that we would issue a report by December right but then then it's up to them whether this could okay I think there was a talk of public debate after the report was issued as well before the town meeting so that there would be some need for maybe us to be present at public debate as well

wow okay so we have two motions that's a it's a it's a good one so yeah what you want to do I'm I'm okay with kind of open-ended I'm sure I'm so happy to sell yourself sure sure leader I'm trained to be a leader and uh you know most of my the jobs that I've done has have been in charge of significant amounts of resources and and supplies and people and uh so I I would like to think I'm a good leader I'd be happy to answer any questions anybody has are you in charge a chair of any of the other what are you on any other committees in town or did maybe talk I'm the town meeting moderator [Music] am I oh that's right now yeah yeah

just about the whole time yeah what's your stance on historical preservation I think it's important I think it's important for Durham to know where we've come from in order to know where we're going to go um I think it's important for for adults

and for kids to have a feeling for the history of Germany uh we're going to do this or are you open to I am coming at this with a totally totally open mind I think uh you know I'm I'm hoping you know I was thinking about how the how the process of the working of this committee ought to work and I you know I was thinking maybe we want to have um a briefing on the history of of the church where it's come from so far I was thinking maybe a visit over there to to take a look at how it is um maybe probably some I know that there's work that's needed on it and I think there have been some some budget estimates so it would make sense to look at that you know so I think I think we want to gather as much information we as we can before we come to the conclusion okay any other questions for you know and Lois do you have any so I would say that

um first thing is is that my family settled here basically where the recreation area is in 1789. so um I've got a long-standing history in the town I didn't grow up here I grew up in Freeport but um it's certainly my great-great-grandmother who came from Durham was always part of what we talked about when we talked about family issues um and interests um my primary interest is in history

and so that's how I got involved in a lot of the different things in town I've learned a lot about preservation and pretending to the Western Methodist Church um we got that from the town in right at the end of 2019 and I've been

writing grants ever since to successful building and right now we've got two windows done two windows out and two windows to go on the sides and then the front windows as well um so I would look forward to being the chair because I think it falls into first of all what the commission's role is um and as chair of the commission I feel like there's a lot of crossover and also having been through this renovation with the Western Methodist Church I feel pretty comfortable if that's the direction we decide with um Union Church I have and I'll give it to you at a different time but I do have estimates Jerry and I have gone ahead and we had um the contractor that is working on the renovation of the western Methodist Church come look at the union church just to get a ballpark and I didn't answer I can push him a little this weekend and got it to him on Sunday as I said we're meeting on Tuesday so

um but I think it will be a piece of information any questions for Lois I'll ask the same question what if I guess I should have more detail with Bill as well what if the is it uh are you open to things other than fixing it where it exists fixing it at all moving it the what's the use for it and I'm not saying that I'm pretty you know I'm not decided yet but a lot of it's going to depend upon cost and a lot of numbers have been thrown out there but are you it has to be fixed in left in place that I I have real concerns about where it is and as I'm sure a lot of people do safety to develop I'll throw that back to Bill if it's still so I believe the purpose of this committee do what's best for the town whether I have an agenda or not doesn't play into this I obviously believe in motivation that's why I'm doing what I'm doing with Western register but what this committee decides is to write a report

that says something other than renovating the union church and that's the consensus of the committee that's what we do I'm coming at it with a completely open mind and I so we have two emotions on the on the on the table here so we have to somehow come to some nominees two nominees right right well right so we have to vote on who the who the chairman will be right I'd suggest we do it blind so if we could get pieces of paper okay is candy not coming um she said she had to go Council on something then she'll come about yes okay

precedence for co-chairs I mean I know we have a chair and a co-chair like two ruling people or is that just make things too complicated that makes it too complicated generous I've co-chaired lots of committees so I go either way

board where nobody wants to do it deaf ear so maybe they can talk to that one but John didn't actually take care of what we asked him and he just said yes usually if you miss a meeting you get elected chair if nobody else wants to do it

yeah absolutely what options [Music] I will nominate Vice chair I'll second next any discussion [Music] that's great secretary we need one of them [Music] is anybody willing to be safe I like typing this is how the planning I would be willing I would be willing to be secretary oh no one else wants to I know secretary any discussion

real quick will now take over the meeting and all right um all right I think um let's take a look at the committee charge from the select number where I'm just going to read it the goals are to identify long-term uses for the property and how the town will benefit what restoration is required to bring the building to code and um

as well it's that may be something to look into [Music] and because it's on the National Registry we have to we don't have to but it's a good idea to look at the standards from the Department of the Interior sure because in the future we want to make sure that we can keep that designation I would imagine we're going to decide that yeah maybe we want to let it go but um and the department of interior standards are

relatively clear oh that's totally but presenting a proposal select board on how these goals will be accomplished um I think it might make sense now for would everybody be comfortable reading the proposed bylaws from Neil it would make sense for us if we're gonna go down the road of having um kind of Rules by which to operate to uh to take a look at these take a few minutes and read this

only change I would suggest is that uh Robert's Rules of Order rather than saying shall govern I would say shall guide so that if we want to make small deviations from Robert's Rules calls for we can so I would that would be my my only edit do we need Roberts are they

more I've never worked with them are they either such a pain in the butt the planning board doesn't use on my phone on the other committee's budget doesn't use them so the budget does use them okay we can we can use them or not I mean if if the sense of everybody is that we we can just use our own procedure and uh then we can certainly do that if they're not a pain then I I don't have a dog and I'll find either way if they're yeah and you you know Vice chair knows them so I'm good so Roberts would require that we recognize anyone who speaks before they speak and keep a speaking order and all that sort of stuff it seems adopting it as a guideline or with flexibility or however we want to do it makes so it's a committee of a whole right so people can talk right like we are right now right rather than

uh say that we've guided so um how oh go ahead the vote by majority two questions if we don't have five people do we nominate one of the alternate alternates to uh be a voting member that evening if we're voting I think that's a great idea yeah put it in there yep yep and then the other one is what I guess if you make that alternate a body member it doesn't matter sometimes the planning board we get down kind of low numbers and so you know in our rules if there's three people uh and one vote again if there's two and one it's not a it's a no vote even if it's 2-4 because it requires a majority of the Friday right and that's covered that's kind of covered in the rules so I'm going to say if no Quorum exists at a meeting alternate

makes sense yeah sounds very similar to that too and maybe have it alternate between meetings so that each of the alternates gets a chance that's a great idea it can't be zipped tonight then next time it's Tia great idea you as a chair select that person I think we would do it by a vote yep

great the adjustments and then I'm going to move that we amend the bylaws that we say a quorum will consists of five voting members of the committee if no Quorum exists at a meeting an alternate may vote and I will change the world the word govern to guide in the uh parliamentary

Authority paragraph is there a second and then alternates are open there they can score yes right a second thank you um it's been moved and seconded is there any discussion of the of adopting the bylaws okay great let's have a look all in favor of adopting the bylaws please raise your hand terrific all opposed it's unanimous terrific thank you and thank you Neil for us for proposing these that's a great it's a great start for the for the work of the committee

the next item is informational exchange and and Lois I know you put together this agenda yeah so um I've got a couple of different things for you so I'll hand around the um and just keep passing them around [Music] foreign

thing that our first document that I have is I mentioned earlier that um Jerry and I had met with Craig who runs on Northeast house rights out of Ballroom and asked for an estimate he did look at the building I would say that he was surprised at the state it's in pleasantly surprised no no so what we had originally asked it to do is look at the sale because that was the twenty one thousand dollars that we have left over in our account from the 6 6 000 that we had in 2017. um and um this still was very very I mean so that you can basically stick this through and enter the crawl space in spots or just generally all around well worse in some places he

is suggesting here that um you could take the most rotten pieces out and replace them or less obviously than lifting the entire building up and replacing the whole cell but um I give you this not so that we discuss it tonight because I think what we need to do is look around and see what other people we can maybe have look at it I do suggest that it be someone who's done Renovations in the past not just somebody

license um because it's a special sort of a situation caused the standards about inter at Department of the Interior standards but the crisis we came up with and if you look at the last page that's a lot but it also includes the back part of the church was done

in a way I'll put a Kinder way than what he said in a way that wasn't meant to be permanent so um in order to bring it back it means getting the stones again if not that have been pushed down toward the river materials that are there and putting it back the way it should have been done didn't he State something about milk orders or plan for the building as well correct there are no Footers under the basement that was replaced in 2019 I believe um the town paid eighteen thousand dollars out to have the back of the church repaired

bringing my fluters there's no base to what the cement blocks sit on they just sit on the dirt so that and I don't know how far you want me to get into this right now but that's great um the first problem was is that they used what he referred to as Hollow cement blocks so I picture them as the kind that have

um so they're not meant to hold up tons of tons of a building those cinder blocks cement blocks so the weight of water is pressing them down into the ground I can tell you that at the Western Methodist Church where we had one side done because that's all I could afford they made Granite down as the footer and then place the blocks

on the granite so and it was a long it took all summer to do so um does this Testament include addressing the Footers doesn't look like you know what I don't think so because we were asking if oil was so he would jack up the building and repair what how much ever he could for whatever money we have available which at this point I started to say this sorry twenty twenty one thousand dollars is what we had in the account at the town meeting the town approved another 10 so we're up to around 31.

the other piece of it is is that the back of this building the corner posts are also Rock so when you're doing one thing it makes sense to do something some other things as well because in the long run you save money but you can see what the total is the total is around fifty thousand dollars and we have 31 so it would mean putting a thousand dollars from undesignated funds or from operational funds or from some other place I don't see where it actually says he's going to jack up the building I see he says lifting it but is it just a given that he wrote jack up or yeah

building that makes sense to do the foundation that would be the time to do it yeah is it okay to speak yeah sure absolutely um I I do think it would warrant actually going back and um reviewing the town's procurement policy as well as looking at the other bids that were submitted for this work and find out if the person who has chosen to do the work was actually the most qualified and to see if maybe the other bids that were submitted did include Footers um and see if maybe we can hold the person accountable for not putting Footers under a historical building so we don't have to basically absorb that cost of something that a

policy and looking at those other bids is extremely important and I know there were other bits because I I saw that agenda that day it was late in Friday s there's a guarantee I mean I don't know go with that but maybe that's not where we're headed with this

wants to chase after that I don't know if we want to start chasing after contractors exactly yeah not us in person but I think it does warrant actually looking a little bit deeper into it just to see because I don't you weren't here during that time no I don't think anybody that works here was here during that time but I vividly recall at least three bits

I I'm curious to see if that contractor that was chosen was actually the best suited for the job for what was submitted are you still in business oh yes they're in town yeah um when I think that begs a question down the road is what is our responsibility somebody May imagine we gave a recommendation to the town both says yes for any of you whatever amount is it would not in my

mind would not be our responsibility manage that contract it would be that the we kind of come up with a road map and then to put it into action and it might be it might be this what's that and the commission I was just going to say that it might be the commission who's who's kind of deputized by the town to to carry out the uh the work itself so this was not meant I think Jerry and I agreed this was not meant to be the only no no estimate that we got obviously we have to do an RFP but um it was a place for us to start to say okay do we even have enough money to even start looking at fixing the sale or

what no this is wonderful I think it was it's very wise to just get a ballpark for some of the work I think it'd be worth that RFP to make sure that the Sills were actually a part of that as well because if it wasn't stated in the RFP then they're you know we have nothing to fall back on but if it was then I can't imagine that it was I mean I don't know because I haven't seen it but I can't imagine that someone would try to say the Sills are fine I know because Mr Polio I mean the foundation yes okay

okay because I was gonna say because Mr broya back two years ago was saying you could get his hand into the hole so yeah um the Footers yeah okay yeah and as we go forward there's a lot of things that they uh put in here that said that basically says oh by the way we don't know if the studs are good right we're going to do this so I mean if this is a great start to say that right you know we're already we're going to be well or maybe over fifty thousand dollars right right and counting but I think it's a good oh a good ballpark I'm at 76. and we haven't even finished the exterior yes

because from the Historical Society Society in 2015 main preservation private company not Mainstay they actually did so some of us know about this they did an assessment of the building and what needed to be done with descriptions and pictures and and that was in 2015 and of course things have gotten worse so um that's useful too that you know that may be something we have and they also have a list of contractors who are historically kind of experts are they really will they come back nine eight years later and put it do we pay for it no we never no yeah so the preservation the Historical Society paid for that um assessment and then the and it was not done by a builder I don't forget what Chris Claus's actual uh yeah anyway it's it's this is floating around various places but I happen to grab mine so they did a follow-up in in 2017. so

contractors who are experience Jerry so we can have copies for everybody next time we already have digital copies oh my God great I think it's in the DHS yes hard drive and I can just afford it to everyone too awesome or print them out whatever we'll do her copies that's great

spoke to the people at Main preservation are probably was applying for a grant so um so they and they said they would be happy to come and look at the union church again the gentleman that contacted me from them on a follow-ups family grew up and he his parents grew up in Durham I believe so he was interested in

put into it to it cool but I haven't set up anything because it's not my place cool for our next meeting um it might make sense to have somebody kind of give us some background on the history of the church and maybe we can divide it into two parts we can do the the the grand history and then the history of keeping it repaired and and fixed and usable is

anybody willing or able to do that yeah I already have it so fantastic yeah I suspected you might but that would be great I think that would be a terrific uh uh agenda for our next meeting does everybody agree any other thoughts for uh what we ought to have on next meeting meetings agenda well one of my I guess my driving thought is the the end goal of what's decided what the town decides they want to do with the church is going to determine the costs involved and what needs to be done to the church so it seems like we ought to focus on that a little bit at some point what do we want to do with it so what's the benefit to the town according to their requirements sort of thing and

because it's going to be open to the public and all there's always going to be a lot of other work done involved to do that yep what were you referring Lois presented something else that's extremely important um the lowest you want to talk about this product sure so there are two um pieces here one from 1984's town meeting and one from 1998. um so I use little arrows just to help people find it but um in 1988 the town determined that they

wanted to turn responsibility for the operation of the Union Church the Old Town Hall over to the Durham Historical Society so the use there's someone who knows more about it than I do um but in in my mind we have an agreement with the Historical Society that's now 30 years old Plus and

require another vote at another town meeting I don't believe that the select board would just be able to say oh by the way we do away with what the town voted we're going to do whatever we want to we're the budget committee or anybody else and that's the purpose of what we're here to do is part of the committee is to make a recognition tell me to keep it change it right whatever we're going to do but presently there is a there is a degree in agreement but I think the guidance what I hear about sitting in the meeting that time is they want this committee to come back and select them to come back to the town meeting and say this is what we want to do with it and this is I think the first year is this is what we think it's going to cost because I think it's to me fair if we're going to vote on what we want to do with it if we ought to have a real good ballpark on what it's going to cost to do it

so if we want to keep it as is it's going to cost this amount if you're going to move it it's going to cost this amount if you're going to upgrade it it's going to cost so that we we as a town don't say well yeah I really love it but I should say that and find out it's going to be

cost to accomplish our desired outcome but when it gets down to the town meeting it'll it'll be a dollar some cents kind of thing and then I think they'd have to motion to vote the Historical Society uh there there was an estimate for the to actually move the building did that happen the the those okay that's just yes be careful of those the only reasons yeah the only reason I know is the guy who's going to lift my barn his father did that several several years ago I don't know was it a cop from Cumberland yeah yeah and therefore they've done done three or four buildings with them and I think they're very good I think they're very honest so he didn't want to tell me what it was though he came to look at my barn and

uh ballpark my father knows can you ask him no my father knows but they did do something but did they go look at the Union Church in church I think they did I I don't know if Lois is part of it but yes they they did an estimate to to move that thing he talked about this year oh no years ago oh this is not a reason [Music] a reason but it's farther lie to him yeah somebody somebody did it and then talking about the Methodist Church I think it could have been the Methodist Church there was a time when we were trying to move by and movement because

Jeff DeWitt and I were making plans is moving the jury or something in the historical society would support them not at all maintain the registry I am unsure he says he spoke to the main preservation there's two different main preservations commission which is in Augusta and there's main preservation which is a private company in yarn right okay so he spoke to the commission and he got the impression that it could be moved and maintain registry I didn't

think so from what my research has been but I guess we'd need that in some kind of way yeah I think one of the important things too to remember is a historical landmark means it's marking right a place within the town that marks a historical event or something and that church is a historical landmark the minute you pick it up and move it it's not a landmark anymore it's a moved church that used to be over there in the parking lot so you literally have removed a part of History that's been there since 1835. and I think it goes back to the use because my concern is that's not a safe quarter if you go and you are working very hard to get people to come to it what we've got to figure out is that a safe parking area can people access it and that I think is part of the it's been used uh we used to have open houses every month about eight years ago and we never had issues with parking or people getting in

and out of there and they I mean they would come and we would make 250 dollars each time we'd have quilt shows art shows bake sales and there were lots of people there so I just think I I think it's knees looking at as long as a whole bunch because what we haven't talked about cost is is it truly handicapped accessible is it are there any kind maybe you don't need it uh

it's a bathroom facilities that's all that additional house there's no heat that could work and then yeah I mean depending on the functional building like Neil said the uses number one the price everything else who has their finger on the National Historic uh register requirements and certification and all that kind of stuff I think the commission does yeah

of that yeah can you make that a can you get that to uh our secretary so that he can get it to everybody you know I think we have we have it all right not I think I know we have it from um the commission so I will get it to Tyler the other thing I'd like to say about the parking issue is when Calvin was with kiss Calvin was also with us I forgot to mention him um Calvin was also with us when we met with the um with the contractor and Calvin said cutting back some of the trees on particularly coming from Auburn on

that road would make a huge difference on being able to see who's coming because they do come quickly up that hill we know that what they do from Candy style too now from the side where candy is which I think is probably the west side there isn't much we could take down to increase the ability to see the distance but definitely taking down those some of the bushes and grow full on the east side that I guess it's the north side because it's up toward Auburn but um and Calvin said he didn't think would be a problem the only problem would be is if we were infringing on the neighbor's property we would have to get permission in order to take down their trees as well which surely they want to be able to see to come out of their driveway what I'd like to recommend in Baltimore do we have to maintain a buffer I mean what's that you know what I mean because we've got to miss another yes so there is a

requirement in the ordinances that there's a 25-foot buffer between the boundary of every property in every historic property and um the neighbor but the Georgia and on I say Georgia I mean George the birds so um George interprets it that the owner of the Abundant property is responsible for the 25 foot buffer so for instance

candy would be responsible for taking care of and making sure there's a vegetative buffer the 25 feet wide between the border of the union church and her house it doesn't place an obligation on the uh on the historical property correct my house is also historical so I don't know how that's going to work yeah because we're what George was talking about in the past if you go to put a new house next to a historical or a subdivision what there is a buffer required that is on the new house on the on the new development what I would be willing to do is um we could talk about what was safe in the past but I think we probably need to go to MDOT and say this is because that's their Road accessed on and off that road is not kelvins it's and I think we just need to say if they're going to say hey you're good to go people pull in people back out on 136 you're good or or not but I think we need to know that

pretty you know right up front getting back to Staffing if if you need Joyce to come to a meeting today I have no problem sending you out you have to be killed because he's got limited out yep yep we have a lot going on but I have no problem super thick that's going to help you all thank you we may be getting deeper into this today but we're kind of we're kind of gathering the the feeling for what all is involved um how big is the property oh no I would have to look it's not a it's not huge it's not more than a half an hour

parking space I mean it's there's a fair bit of parking I think the concern is pulling out yeah and I think you're right I mean I the main Department of Transportation asking them first I guess I think that's smart I want to take the sort of do it with planning board previous life I've done that stuff so thank you enjoy or Calvin tell me who like we need to talk to

by the Burr is yep so when it runs the distance behind the church behind the church yeah between there and the uh do you know what the foundation size is but I can't maybe the same number square right right exactly it's very very close and and perhaps because the building is

of the rule of people driving out this Grand maybe his grandfather did and that may say they don't care yeah I think you just need to know up front from MDOT and in either an email or a letter that says you're okay as is so and maybe they can do something to help okay I'm from the government I'm here now yes

haven't heard tonight I've heard move it [Music] leave it alone what I didn't hear was turn it over to the Historical Society yes put that out there because it has been in discussion between Jerry and I kept saying I can't speak to the what the Historical Society thinks so but the other thing would be they have the responsibility given by the town already you've taken care of the building so it doesn't mean that the repair costs are theirs at this point I think that's 100 a possibility um where I I think we're going into this with a completely open-minded and I think at some meeting maybe we'll have a a butcher block and we'll we'll just throw out ideas for potential outcomes

the building making the town of any sort of money uh anyway I don't think that's a child's worry it's just I thought it said something about how will the town you benefit from it and for me when I think of benefit I think of how are they going to reap the benefits of their income yeah very cynical mindset housing so yeah or

study main history right that's something they go and do right make me spend a half a day there or something yeah those are all benefits what about the selling into a private organization is that is that a possibility tell us this decision they could I guess but it could be an option coming from this committee yeah it could be yeah and is is the church the Methodist Church is that owned by primary organizations Friends of the western Methodist Church is a called a subsidiary of the Historical Society so the agreement when when the select board gave it to friends

of the western Methodist Church for a dollar in as soon as we got our first grant they needed to see some money to know that we weren't just going to take the building and let it cave in this select board wanted to see some money so they required that I get a grant first I got a grant came back to them said the Grant's been approved and they said okay the building is yours [Music] however it isn't yours to sell in the future if you give it up it goes to the Historical Society so there there was a story behind all this that it was in the historical societies that one point but Margaret

went over and sat both as chair in the historical society and on the select board and transferred it from the Historical Society to the town nothing even though it had been there's the Western Methodist Church had been theirs so it was yeah yeah it was that

was the time that I was trying to purchase it and that the north panel Methodist Church the Northbound Community Church who owned it did not want to sell it because I was willing to buy it because it affects my property so if we are it's owned by the friends

for the time being but when we can no longer do anything with it it goes to the Historical Society is the friends of 501c3 we are under we share the 501 yeah names on every Grant it's never just the friends or just the historical side of both of them yeah

should well let's talk about a uh date for our next meeting [Music] Tuesday of the month I think that's within our control and the second Thursday of the month is the commission so we can stay away from that and once we want to make a dual meeting what about Wednesdays how many meetings do we want to have a month do we want to have one two a month I think we ought to do two more to him again or later if you want to get quotes and stuff yeah let's let's talk about those sort of deadlines and money and funding and all how that works so Lois was right so when your restoration fund you've got 21 457.

in the town meeting we got another 10 000 but that 10 000 was put into the operational funds that money doesn't get spent it goes back to designated funds at December 31st so then you're going to be back to 21 to 47. so this year the process the capital process is going to start in September I'm gonna get that started a little month early so we're not so we're gonna any money that you're gonna want to put into this building or try to get a capital request will have to be um an application just like a Department's head and for why and then it'll go through that process in September yes so so if we want to spend any money um this fiscal year you've got right now this fiscal year I think you've got about 31 full on a spend if you don't and we can spend the first 10 if you spend it out of the operational but if you don't if nothing happens if you know and which the select board will have to approve anything that we do

spend on that because it is a town building but we'll only lose the tax right they won't lose the other no you will not but I think they tell me very amountable to give us back the 10 if we didn't spend it this year myself but the other thing is I did I got the impression sitting in the selectman meeting they didn't have an expectation that in this coming April we would vote of funding I think the first thing they wanted us to vote on but the town to vote on was what are we going to do with it which requires some knowledge of what is going to cost us to do that but they saw this as a two-year process to getting to yeah you know it's yeah we're not going to approve it in April 24. and I don't see this committee as spending any money I mean I don't think this committee is a money spending committee I think this committee is an idea committee yeah and I think you know I think it's still up to the Historical

Society um to you know make an application by September if you want to to uh to to get that ten thousand dollars right but I think if if depending on that idea of what you're going to use it for there'll be money have to be spent to bring it up to code to use it on that right right so there is an element of some but I don't think it's us I don't think it's this committee that's responsible for bringing it up to code we have a select one over here um so what I would just like to add to what John was saying was in our meeting when we were talking

our budget process and that's when the conversation about the CIP committee came up and applying to the CIP um Jerry's obviously writing about the ten thousand dollars um and if that does get spent the that's part of this year's budget and so if you did need to spend money on studies or you know anything like that that needs to happen that that could potentially come out of that money there um and your the 21 000 that does exist and isn't going anywhere and I agree with Neil because I was at town meeting and I saw how many people raised their hand that I think that I would give back

everybody understands that like the only way that any of this is going to get funded this year or next year is to go through that proper improvement process unless for some reason the town no longer owns the building but if the town owns the building it has to go through that process to get funding which has deadlines in September that's when the CIP process starts right yeah we're going in September and then you know there's there is a process and then the select board reviews it the recommendations of the capital and they don't really get chosen until like December but the process so it's going to start earlier this year absolutely sorry something that we do where we work when we get grants is we have a certain amount of time

start until after that expiration date but what we end up doing is we give the damn deposit of what we have left so the check is cut during that time frame but the work doesn't actually start until after the time it's inspired

so we do that every single year every single year just so we don't lose Grandpa so I don't know if that's something that the town is able to do with the ten thousand so say we use this northeast house right and we use that ten thousand dollars as a deposit for the work that's going to be done but we don't have to pay anything else until 24. that's something we can bring to the board I I don't it's legal I'm sure it is but it's just if that's something that we're worried that we won't get that ten thousand back it might be something to throw up there he requires usually at least a third name yes before he starts anything like yeah the windows that are yeah that I mentioned are seventeen thousand dollars for to have their Windows repaired and I'd given him already 50 before he ever took them out is Craig the guy who did the work of the Methodist yes pretty expensive experience on that list I think that's

where God is made so do you guys plan to spend money on the Historical Society has not been allowed to spend that money because it's a town building and that fund that for many years at town meeting somebody would get up from historical society and ask for ten thousand dollars and it was kind of uh whatever and then there was 60 or 70 000 at one time and then

what had was I don't know how they chose and I don't know who made the decisions to do what they did over there and some of it was done good something we said not proper properly not really not anyway so it hasn't been this normal so I don't know how you I don't know who would take I guess you would have to take control of

disability right Calvin Calvin and I Calvin most of you take that lead planning budget I went in did that not go into the because that was the thing that came up at the last minute completely outside though it is in the process yeah it's in the planning line but it's a but it's an operational that was sent in as a request in prior to November from the commission for ten thousand dollars to be put in but it wasn't any of the budget budget article but it wasn't in anything that's right you've never made it past that page in our request we got our money that we requested that there was an additional page to it and it never made it to whoever needed to get it budget committee planning committee whoever needed to get it what was it was it it gave up but regardless

this Thirty one thousand dollars but that's not our job to spend the thirty one thousand dollars but it would be our job I interpret it tell this to suggest to the select board that if that work is put off 31 000 becomes fifty one thousand dollars becomes a hundred and ten thousand dollars because it's like anything yep you put off work on your car he's gonna end up buying a new car and it's more expensive than putting an oil filter in no I agree honestly it's it's so if you leave it because you're putting it into a cell that goes away if you move on and say if you move it if you do something else do you want to put money into a new Foundation or do sell if the recommendation is to move it so the when Craig spoke to us it can't be moved

on the sale now the foundation will be left behind obviously they were not moving the concrete blocks right but the wood yeah five by five or six by six or whatever it is that it sits on that would have to be replaced to move it

wholesaling point at the last minute in the budget or the town meeting was we need this now or the building's going to fall down yes so I mean that was that was what the town said okay you got 21 000 and I think the thought then was going to be less than 21 000 plus 10 000 was enough to fix it

don't have the history but I recall someone's saying that there was an estimate to replace the cells by a Jew that are telling me that it never got and never went anywhere right now um Todd Boya had said it's going to be 25 I mean he's a contractor he had said it's gonna be twenty five thousand dollars you know take her take it away so let us know the new number that is the number for all of this but it's more than just the sale so you can actually see what he what Craig did was because we asked him to was split everything out he didn't just say in order to get this so that it's livable s he slid it all out so you can start subtracting some of that stuff off and it'll bring it down that's not perfect down to 31. I could do it but like yeah

but my understanding is that because the building is owned by the town that I actually when I asked for the ten thousand dollars I'm re volley back and forth at the town meeting it came out of undesignated funds because that was the million and a half or how much ever it was money that was available and so ten thousand dollars out of undesignated funds but there is an operational budget as well had we not asked for the ten thousand dollars and had a tree falling on the roof or the steps collapsed or the rear of the building collapse that town would have had to find the money from operational funds or for my designated to make them repair so do you see what I'm saying so well even if they want them if they wanted yeah or they could let it fall in yes right but so even if

money available in the town budget I don't think four things like I don't think collapses in a rainstorm the town's going to find the money to replace the road I think we were talking about that before I came in in the middle of it but some part of the road somewhere is washed away you know I mean there are emergencies all the time in a town sure that you have to deal with and there's that's what the undesignated comes to defend you and say oh my God we've got to wash that road oh my God we've got a church that's falling into the river oh my God we've got whatever I wonder if okay so the shirt the church was supposed to be insured the town obviously has insurance yeah what about insurance claim if it's starting to fall off the back of the Hill could we have an adjuster come out and see if it's worth doing an insurance claim on it and getting money that way well it's not really falling off the

back of the Hill though uh well it was it was and then they came in and they put a lot they added a lot of dirt back when they did the foundation I mean we had maybe what a foot back there and then they came in and added like seven feet of fill I have no idea what kind of the situation of the Tower of insurance is it does it insure itself well our insurance is through MMA oh all right yeah

maintenance and then there's a Act of God or whatever yeah yeah and you know who knows where they would come down right yeah exactly exactly I think this 50 000 is probably a low ball because everything I've read about it it is strictly the seal replacement so some of the things that don't say specifically but we've got to remove siding to attach steel we have to we have to do this and oh by the way we don't know what happens to the interior plaster and other things that we jack it up and it's oh I think whatever that is 50 51 000 is from 50 yeah is a good

minimum estimate yeah it didn't sound outrageous to me for replacing the cylinder building essence the more color I believe and correct me if I'm around Lewis but when Craig did look at the building he said he would guess that the building has like four to five years before it does collapse the foundation yeah that's why we're here he said it's not next week right that's good but it could be within four to five years it was never meant the repairs that were made were never meant to be long-term repairs they're clearly

Band-Aids exactly yeah [Music] I mean the cop the bill the billers they they don't just move houses they also Jacks houses up so that things can be not much else to do take on the the opportunity of working with anybody else on what it what would it cost another bid you know if in fact there's interior damage that you know what might it be what's a good contingency on top of 50 000 if we want to move it what would that cost the uh and if we don't have to vote to move it but at least you could say that's another hundred thousand or 150 000 yeah I think it's great to know that I don't mind taking that I think it's important if we're going to talk to somebody else though to find out what what marching orders did you give to Craig yes you know it's important that we have that we're operating on the same setup we need an RFP yeah policy because how many bits do we need to get and what's the threshold

think we need three you know three legally you do yeah but we're not you know we're not gonna we're not going to accomplish right yeah but somebody will somebody at the end of the day if 2025 is [Music] of course December December I guess I'm confused with what the 2025 vote would be for for the sale no funding whatever you say whatever we decide to do exercise or whatever yeah I guess I need to look at your will the cell be done will a RFP go out for the

sale in a timely enough manner to get it done before December 30th we can go to the select point to see if that is something they want to spend the money on that's on the agenda yep because I'm concerned that I mean everything but if we do do the soul and we spend one we do have to go out to bed

together tomorrow um well clearly not but you know what I mean there's much noise because we're now to September October November December four months do do we read I guess the question then is do we really need to do this at all that quickly if it's three years ago to not lose our money to not lose because maybe we can get another you know if we don't lose it we use it we can ask again for ten thousand next year mate so now we're talking 20 000 from the town not just and have to go back and say that the 10 000. right they're not going to give us 20 next year they'll give us 10 if we've lost the 10 then we are out but maybe we can get the sill done this year just so John you and I I think might make it nice prepare to talk to the cop Brothers about raising what they would charge to raise the building because perhaps not being any kind of a contractor and perhaps once the building has been

raised replacing the cell is the easy Park half of my barn is you know and his two cops actually Mike's doing the tearing down the old dairy farms and then um the other cops movie cops are Keith is the guy who's he's doing all the cribbing lifting and crimping I'm happy again I'm happy working Lois so they moved a house for me from Yarmouth to Davis Road okay oh they're they're good guys their reputation is very good so it seems ashamed to me which kind of just free-forming stuff yeah yeah

we should even do it but if you're gonna do it yeah yeah I think that makes a lot of sense which means yes 50 Grand or 100 Grand the next year for the foundation Heather wants to jump in that that's what I was going to address when Tia brought up the 2025 date that

that if you're 2024 that those numbers have to be in by September temperatures that's when the CIP process so I just want to make sure that everybody keeps that on their radar tasks never figure out the time we're gonna meet I think we did yeah

um Thursday does Thursday except the second Thursday which is commission okay the second um Thursday the third and we can always meet at the church too well I think maybe the next meeting will do that it's it's foreign right here at uh six o'clock

hope that Tyler did the things that we said we were going to put on the agenda the next time I'm sure do you have everybody's emails I think they do from the initial Town email or should be yeah so yeah I'll send out the documents we've talked about and the minutes you were the best and then we wanted the copies

that they think would be helpful um if you can get it to the secretary um terrific great great good deal yeah nice job all right yes there's a motion to adjourn that's not debatable all right is there a second all in favor of a journey

foreign how to do it now I do now anymore still on yep of them four or five and pretty good [Music] um